Exposing Big Food & Pharma: Advertising Tactics, Ozempic Controversy, Healthcare Corruption & How To Create Change w/ Calley Means

Cali Means
I want to be clear. If the largest and fastest growing industry in the country and the most powerful industry is predicated on the american people being sick, particularly preying on palm poor people, we're screwed. And they are screwed unless we change that. This is the pursuit of wellness podcast. And I'm your host Mari Llewelyn.

Mari Llewelyn
What is up, guys? Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. I am your host Mari Llewellyn. And today we have a very interesting conversation with Cali means. This conversation blew my mind in so many ways, and I know it will for you, too.

Earlier in his career, Kali was a consultant for food and pharma companies, and he is now exposing practices they use to weaponize our institutions of trust. So basically, he used to work on the inside of food and pharma, and now he's on the outside exposing them for the way that they kind of poison us as consumers. He really came on today's show and brought statistics. I was pretty mind blown learning who funds who, why things are done a certain way. Advertising it really kind of like pulled back the curtain on the way the food industry works in America and kind of explained why things are so corrupt and why we are struggling with so many issues with health here in the US.

Some things we discussed today unpacking health institutions and the issue at large, the american healthcare system. Experience as a food consultant. Unpacking ozempic, making informed decisions and being connected to our soil. The processed food industry and how it was created by the cigarette industry earlier. Puberty in females.

Pcos and signs of metabolic dysfunction. Birth control's effect on us. Understanding the labor process, basically how giving birth affects us later in life. Long term effects of being born through c section. How to enact and change policy and make a big difference.

Shift in nutrition and consumerism. Talking big pharma and shadow banning advice for people being stuck in the system. Lab testing and so, so, so much more. Guys, Callie is incredible. He's a New York Times bestselling author.

He's the co founder of True Med. He's written an amazing book called Good Energy with his sister. And he's just doing so much good for the industry. I really feel like we hear so many people out there in the wellness space kind of bashing the way things are done, bashing companies, talking about the issue of health in the US. But this is someone who's truly out there making a difference and putting his money where his mouth is.

So, yeah, I thought this episode was absolutely incredible. I love this guy. We really connected and let's hop right in. Also, a little housekeeping. Guys, we are skipping Thursday, July 4, so there will not be an episode coming out on July 4.

I'm taking a break, which is crazy. And I know you guys are probably busy out and about with the fam for July 4, so enjoy the day, be safe, and we'll see you guys on Monday. Callie, welcome to the show. Pumped to be here. I am so excited to chat.

You are an expert when it comes to the corruption of pharma and food industries. In fact, you used to to be a consultant for food and pharma, and now you are exposing them for how they manipulate consumers. I feel like we have a lot to unpack today, tons of places we can go with this. I actually pulled a quote which I feel like kind of sums up the conversation and what I've, you know, done through research of you. It says, these institutions make money when we are sick and lose money when we are healthy.

Can you kind of unpack that for us and just talk about the issue at large here? This is such a big issue, and there's so much things that sound like conspiracy theories. So I just like to zero in on the pure, unemotional economic fact, and that is that there's been no more profitable invention in the history of american capitalism than a sick child. Healthcare is the largest and the fastest growing industry in the country. And just following the money, following the incentives.

Cali Means
A hospital makes money when somebody is sick and needs interventions and loses money when they're healthy and thriving. Pharmaceutical companies make money when there's lifetime interventions. Med schools make money when the sick care system grows. Insurance companies, interestingly, we all say, oh, they want to lower costs. Actually, they are only able to take 15% of profits.

They have to pay out 85% by law, and they're able to raise premiums as costs grow. So they're highly incentivized for people to get sick or cost to grow. Cause they're able to get 15% of the largest pie possible. So they want the pie to grow. So literally, and I mean literally, every single institution that touches our health makes money when people are sicker for longer periods of time.

So just looking at the pure economic incentives there, right. You want, economically, that industry, they want people to get sick, stay sick earlier. And the beauty of chronic disease is that when a child, 33% of them, now teens have pre diabetes. 50% of teens are overweight or obese. 25% of teens have fatty liver disease.

That would have been unthinkable. Mental health disorders, et cetera. It's exploding. It's a national stain on our country, what's happening to kids. But that's very good, because when that kid has prediabetes and they get on that metformin and they have, inevitably, the high cholesterol, get on the statin, when they have some signs of being sad and get on that SSRI, which is exploding, the rates in high schools, they're being told that the cure is in this pill, and you take those pills, and you take those treatments for life, and you inevitably rack up more comorbidities.

So you have this conveyor belt earlier and earlier of people suffering, of people racking up comorbidities, but they're not dying, they're just suffering. And that's a devastating to our human capital. It's devastating to our economy right now. But it's very good for the healthcare industry. And I think one of the biggest issues that we need to unpack in the country, I think the biggest issue in the country is the fact that this industry, which is the largest and fastest growing industry in the country, faster growing than the tech industry, faster growing than AI, it is the fastest growing industry in the country and the largest.

It's an amoeba that's built to grow. And in order to grow, it needs people to get sicker, younger. And that's, unfortunately what's happening. And it's happening uniquely in America. I can't stress this enough.

I talk about 50% of young adults being overweight or obese. The childhood obesity rate in Japan is 3%. People in Japan live seven years more than Americans. This is actually not throwing up our hands. We are exporting our medical system and our food throughout the country, and it's having a bad impact.

This is a unique problem in America. Why America specifically? Like, what laws do we have or don't have that other countries do? If that makes sense. Like, why is this only happening here?

Mari Llewelyn
Yeah. In America, we spend three times more per capita on health care than many other european countries. We actually spend, amazingly, half as much per capita on food. So through corruption, through rigging institutions of trust by this industry, that makes more money when people are sick, we've created a situation where we see healthcare as in the doctor's office. We see healthcare as treating something.

Cali Means
We don't see healthcare holistically. And that's really been by design. So working for these industries earlier in my career, this is what I call the playbook. It's rigging institutions of trust. Just, again, as a pure statement of economic fact, the pharmaceutical industry is the largest funder.

They pay the bills more than any other industry for politicians themselves. They pay politicians five times more than the oil industry. They are the largest funder of research. The pharmaceutical industry is the lifeblood of medical research. When my sister unpacked the incentives from Stanford med school, where she went, 50% of their entire budget somehow touches pharma and the healthcare industry.

So they fund the research. Research in elite universities and from the NIH, which is a subsidiary of Pharma. Two isn't asking why people are getting infertility, isn't asking why people are getting Alzheimer's, isn't asking why diabetes rates are exploding. They're asking how we can profit from those exploding rates. The research completely and utterly throws up its hands and takes it as a given that people are getting sicker.

It's only about how to intervene marginally, of course, these issues are root cause metabolic problems from our lifestyle, and actually pretty simple reasons, but nobody's asking that. Nobody's studying that. Cancers are preventable, essentially a foodborne illness in many cases, and we spend 40 times more researching marginal cures instead of actually how to prevent it in the first place. Cancer, many forms of it. Pancreatic cancer, which my mom died from, is as highly tied to blood sugar, strangulation, diabetes, as smoking is to lung cancer.

We say these things are random, but they're not. But we spend no amount of money time researching that. The last one I'll say is media. And this is a huge one, mainstream media. 50% of the funding for mainstream media tv comes from the pharmaceutical industry.

This is really important. I've talked about this. Normal people, some journalists I've talked to, they're like, oh, you're right, it's not to influence consumers. We're going to buy drugs. They've got us these goofy ads.

It's to buy the news itself. There's not curiosity on mainstream news channels about why we have this explosion of metabolic health crises among kids. It's not being talked about. Whereas when you shift to independent media, when you shift to books that are selling well, when you shift to where people kind of can choose for themselves or they listen to, and there's not that corruption of referees of what people are saying, really. It's talking about metabolic health.

I mean, from Joe Rogan on down, that's a metabolic health podcast. They're talking about healthy eating, exercise, sunlight, then all the health podcasts, comedy podcast, literally everything is talking about the fact that we're all getting sicker and our kids are getting sicker. This is actually a huge issue, but the media totally has disinterest in that. So that's how this has happened. We have a system where we have a food industry, and we can unpack how this happened, where we've shifted to 70% ultra processed food that's highly addictive.

Makes sense. I mean, from the food industry standpoint, we have addictive, cheap food, much more pronounced in America. That and other metabolic health habits. We get 25% less sleep than 100 years ago. We're so sedentary that 77% of american young adults aren't eligible to join the military.

We really incentivize, I think, metabolic health disasters for our population. But from the industry standpoint, okay, food wants food to be cheap and addictive, fine. The devil's bargain is that the medical system not only is silent about the fact that we're getting so sick from our food, they're not. They're not, you know, they're not only silent, they're complicit. And where the devil's bargain comes in, the devil's bargain between the food and the pharma industry is that as Coca Cola is rigging our systems to subsidize soda, to have 95% of our agriculture subsidies go to ultra processed food, to have food stamp, you know, the lower income nutrition program for our country, 10% of that go to soda.

As they're doing that, the medical industry is actually complicit in that the American Diabetes association is actually taking money from Coca Cola. They're not only speaking, not speaking out. Imagine that. The American Diabetes association. There's nothing more connected to this explosion of childhood diabetes than sugar water, than these drinks that have 70 grams of sugar.

They're actually taking money, the American Diabetes association, from Coca Cola and saying small cans of coke are a good idea for diabetics. That's where this all connects.

Mari Llewelyn
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I mean, it's just so, it's. It's such a glaring issue. And I know we have podcast hosts speaking about it like, you know yourself, Doctor Mark Hyman, Joe Rogan. People are speaking out, but as you said, the media isn't talking about it. I feel like it really isn't loud enough, you know, in comparison to everything else we talk about.

And I think we'll end up talking about Ozempic here, because, you know, I keep thinking about that right now, as someone who was a consultant for food and pharma, behind the scenes, what was that experience like, and what can you tell us? Like, what was the method behind the scenes? Like, what are they trying to tell us as consumers? Yeah, they're trying to ask who their target audiences trust. So let's take ozipic as a case study.

Cali Means
Cause this is the playbook that I saw. So. Okay, so we have a obesity crisis. 80% of adults are overweight or obese. 50% of teens are overweight or obese.

This is amazing for the healthcare system. At the JP Morgan healthcare conference, there was a standing ovation when one of the analysts said that obesity is one of the greatest opportunities and growth areas in the healthcare industry. When they put up a slide saying 80% of the american people are overweight or obese, literally the entire group in the auditorium stood and cheered. So that's how the healthcare industry sees obesity. Obviously, obesity is from the fact that we're basically force feeding ultra processed crap down our kids mouths and have a totally broken food system.

I think that's obvious. What the industry and what we do around these rooms is, it's framed in good ways. Right? We have this pill. The american patients are lazy.

They're not going to eat healthy. Those fail. So we need to get this. This injection out. Who do we need to pay?

Well, people trust doctors. So Nova Nordics has made 420,000 individual payments to doctors in the last year. We have on record 2022. Is that who owns Ozempic? Yeah.

So Novo Nordics, a danish company, that's now the 12th most valuable company in the world, the most valuable company in Europe, surpassing Louis Vuitton. All base 90% of their profit expectations on the american taxpayer paying for ozempic, not Europe. Europe's not making ozempic the standard of care for obesity. It's not legal there. Correct, it's legal.

But when you're pre diabetic or you're on the verge of obesity, you actually get a medically subsidized keto diet. No. Yeah. Which would make sense. Genius.

Mari Llewelyn
Yeah. It's not the standard of care. Additionally, off the shelf, and this is a whole other layer of corruption in Germany, Ozempic is 15 times less expensive than it is in the United States through sheer corruption, so. Yeah, but getting to the playbook, we pay doctors. So when we want to influence something, this is.

Cali Means
People will need to probably fact check this, because I don't think it's even like, it doesn't even sound believable. There are no conflicts of interest rules at universities or at the NIH. Literally, it just came out that NIH scientists made over $700 million during the pandemic of payments from pharmaceutical companies. Undisclosed pharmaceutical companies are able to directly pay NIH researchers themselves and academics. Bribes, consulting payments, so they've made 420,000 individual payments.

They've also just totally funded the actual academic and medical groups. So the American Academy of Pediatrics is a very influential organization. So these are third party groups, but actually, statutorily in Congress, they're able to make the standard of care for their area. You know, the American Diabetes association for Diabetes, the American Academy of Pediatrics for Kids. 90% of the American Academy of Pediatrics funding comes from pharma Novo Nordics.

This danish company is one of the top funders of the American Academy of Pediatrics. Just to be clear, this is for kids? For kids. So Novo Nordics, and I help do this a lot, but I'm just giving the playbook. They funded the American Academy of Pediatrics, and they stacked that group and they influenced them with research that Novo Nordics also funded a 68 week trial saying that Ozempic was good for children.

68 weeks of the lifetime drug, not testing muscle loss versus fat loss. And actually, the study actually was a severely a loss of muscle, but did not take that into account. Used that study funded through the American Academy of Pediatrics. They fund. And the American Academy of Pediatrics very recently said that Ozempic should be a frontline defense for twelve year olds, not after dietary interventions fail.

A frontline defense. This is a lifetime drug that causes suicidal ideation, and most importantly, does not teach that child whose metabolic is functional. A path of curiosity. Yeah. So you fund the medical groups, you fund the media.

So, one of the doctors from Harvard are the lead obesity doctor who received over $100,000 in the last year. We have on record of direct bribes whose obesity center that they're building at Harvard is predicated on more and more and more patients getting Ozempic. She goes on 60 Minutes and the most popular news program in the United States and says that obesity is genetic and that we need Ozempic and we need it urgently for kids. And actually it's a civil rights issue because so many lower income people are obese. We have to have government payment, $1,800 a month per patient, government funded Ozempic.

It's a national civil rights issue. Before and after that segment, there were ads for pharmaceutical companies. Ozempic advertises on 60 Minutes itself, completely unquestioned. Her conflicts were not questioned. Ozempic is also one of the largest payers of direct.

I don't even know how a foreign company can do this, but they're a direct payer of politicians themselves. And 250 politicians, members of Congress are supporting the obesity act to steer government money to Ozempic. This is important and this is again, the playbook is that once you have government approval, there's no restraint of how much it could be prescribed. And the reason Ozempic and Nova Nordics is such a valuable company is all based on that approval. Approval from the us government, because the us government's not allowed, based on rules.

Farmer wrote, they're not allowed to negotiate prices. So it will be $1,800 per patient, per month. And the target market is 80% of adults, 50% of teens. So if you just do the math, this will, if it's prescribed, as I expected to be prescribed if the gates are open, this is trillions of dollars. And crucially, and I think shamefully and the real mission I'm on and what I'm actually meeting with a lot of members of Congress on and I think people waking up on is youd never in a world look at the devastation happening to our metabolic health and then didnt understand what current policy is and said you can have $1,800 per month to solve this youd never say let people keep poisoning themselves and jab them.

Lets not talk about the person on the edge thats highly diabetic, 400 pounds. Lets talk about the median american youd never do that. Youd say lets fix our food system, lets invest in regenerative agriculture, lets stop poisoning our population. And that's my point. It's not a, we've created an environment where we just, it's just no other option than getting sick and drugging.

And we can steer healthcare dollars to other routes and have a bottoms up empowerment, which I know many of us are on. I've heard you use the phrase if a fish is in a dirty tank. You clean the tank and then the fish gets better. You don't leave the tank dirty and hope that the, or give the fish medication. Yeah.

And people hear that and they say, well, you know, it's hard. Lifestyle changes, change is hard. I think that's a really convenient thing for the healthcare systems to say. I don't think and see Americans wanting to be sick, depressed, and kill themselves and basically eat themselves to death. I don't think that's what people want.

My mom abruptly died of cancer after facing a number of other comorbidities. Was the standard american patient really in many ways, and she just wasn't told this by the medical system. She's like, oh, statin, high cholesterol, fine metformin, high blood sugar, that's normal. You know, she wanted to still be here and meet her grandkids. And I think most people do want to live and want to thrive.

So I think the problem is incentives. Like, I don't think it's about lecturing people, like, at a high level, policy level, what to eat. It's, it's, it's, it. Rubber hits the road is if that patient is pre diabetic at a doctor's office, what are they recommended? What are they incentivized to do?

They are told that patient is told, take your statin, take your metformin, and don't even worry about your diet. Literally, the guidance from the American Heart association, the American Diabetes association, was, you don't need to worry about your diet. If you take the drugs correctly, and if that patient, like in Europe, is told actually you can reverse these things with this certain dietary intervention or exercising, you're statistically going to die. If you're diabetic by the time you're 3011 years younger than an average american, if they're actually told the truth and incentivized. Incentivized to potentially eat healthier and exercise, those things can happen.

I just think it's all about the policy, like where and the standard of care and what a doctor's recommending to a patient, and we're just not following the science right now. So I lost 90 pounds back in 2017, and I've had a lot of people ask me, if you had had ozempic back then, would you have taken it? I was in a very different mindset back then. I'm so grateful I didn't have the option because it taught me, I mean, I wouldn't be sitting here right now if I didn't have to experience what I experienced. I learned everything about nutrition.

Mari Llewelyn
I learned about exercise. I learned how to have a work ethic. It taught me everything, like, who I am as a person today is because of that journey. And that would have been stolen from me, I think, had I been on Ozempic. And just to speak to the spending, I have been approached multiple times already to have advertising for Ozempic on my show.

And I'm not saying I'm super anti, super pro whatever, but I just think it's interesting. And I would never say yes to an Ozempic ad on my show, but I just think it's interesting how they're now paying for podcast ads from people like me, which is crazy. Yeah. I mean, I know some of the folks that are running some of those big companies, they know what they're doing is bankrupt. Quite frankly, shilling Ozempic to millennials, it's wrong.

Cali Means
It's totally legal. But I think at some point, the systems, and you talk about being in the room, at some point, people need to just ask what macro is happening? And again, I can't stress it enough. I'm not fully anti drug. I think patients should make informed decisions with their doctors.

But on a kind of immediate american case, and I've followed your story closely, I truly mean this. Like, the central goal of America should be to incentivize people being on the journey you went on, like. Like, was it not one of the most, like, spiritually and important, like, journeys that impacted every other aspect of your life? It's like, it's like, not like a diet thing. It's like, truly, like, having more awe and curiosity for the environment, for what we're putting in our body, for what we're putting in our kid's body.

I think this, like, detachment from our soil and our food and our metabolic habits, movement, sunlight, just our biological needs, is a real, like, spiritual crisis in the country. And, you know, it's obviously evidenced in really terrible health and mental health statistics. But also, like, I tie it to the environment. I mean, we're destroying our soil, our foods much has much lower nutrients. We just don't understand, and we're born with the innate ability, and it's encoded in ourselves, is to understand that, and it's taken away from us.

No other animal in the wild is systematically obese or diabetic. You don't have obese giraffes. And I think these systems being inside the rooms, it's very calculated taking that away from us. We have these schools designed by John D. Rockefeller, who said, I want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers.

We set kids in sedentary environments without sunlight. Kind of when they're born to play, we shove processed food in their mouths. The processed food industry was created by the cigarette industry. People don't know this, but in 1990, the three largest processed food companies were cigarette companies. Philip Morris, RJ Reynolds, and others.

Still to this day, Philip Morris owns Kraft. Most of the companies were spun out in the 1990s, but cigarette companies literally took their scientists as cigarette companies were declining and put them over to food companies to make the food more addictive. And all those thousands of ingredients that we have in our food are made to addict our children. It's hijacking our biology and our understanding of, like, what we're eating. I truly believe that you don't binge on natural food because our bodies are made over thousands of years to be dealing with this food.

But processed food is not natural. It's hijacking our biology. So, yeah, I just think when you look at the, when you look at public policy, the core input is humans in America who are increasingly unable to reproduce, increasingly depressed, overweight, and sick in a lot of ways. Right now, in 2024, we have the highest rates of almost every single chronic disease in history. Highest rates of cancer, diabetes, autoimmune conditions go down the list.

Kidney disease, it's the highest ever of every single condition. Something wrong is happening. And again, on the personal level, I truly think there's a way it's not lecturing people, it's not shoving them into any ideology, but it's like using that $4.5 trillion to spur curiosity and lifelong habits. And my problem with ozempic is if you could show me that it literally worked perfectly. Forever, maybe.

Although I still think if you're eating 20% less alter processed garbage, it's going to hurt your cells. And I think the long term studies about comorbidities are going to be terrible. Like every other chronic disease treatment ever studied, there's never been a chronic disease treatment that's lowered the rates of the chronic disease it's trying to treat. Or overall comorbidities literally stands. More heart disease, metformin, more diabetes.

It's because it's not. You're still shoving garbage into your body, hurting your cells. You rack up more and more and more problems. But even if you showed that was perfect, I still don't think it would be the answer, because you're just going to have to. We can't out hack it.

I don't think we can out hack our biology. That being said, it's not perfect. Most people go off the drug within a year. It's about half the people go off the drug touch for not side effects. Our gut is highly connected to the rest of our body.

I'm very concerned about the mental health issues coming out from it and the suicidal ideation investigation in Europe, because we segment everything. I'm really concerned about the muscle loss. I recently debated some doctors on this, and everyone agrees with this. Every single person who shows a simpic when they're pushed, they say four to five rigorous strength training appointments a week, and you have to shift to a high protein, low altar, processed food diet. They say, you have to do that or you're going to have really bad metabolic issues.

It's like, well, let's do the four to five. I don't think there's an epidemic of obesity and issues among people that are working out four to five times a week and shifting to a high protein, low ultra processed food diet. Let's try that first. Yeah, I mean, how many people are doing that on ozembic? You know, none.

And it's a ticking. It's a ticking time bomb, you know, it's like, how have we not learned these lessons? There's never been a chronic disease treatment that's lowered the rates of the chronic disease.

Mari Llewelyn
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That's 20% off any aqua true water purifier. When you go to aquatru.com and use code pow pow, I'd like to talk about women's health. Yes, we discuss that a ton on this podcast. We talk about pcos, hormone regulation, and I know we're seeing hormonal dysregulation start as early as middle school. Like, girls are having their period at age 1011, which is wild.

Why is this happening? And then we'll go into pcos and fertility and all of that good stuff. Well, what everyone wants, a white male talking about infertility and women's health. But I do think there's really, really important things to learn. Let's talk about it.

You have stats? No, no. I think that there are key things from the incentive angle that is really important and is actually one of the areas I and my wife and my sister, who I wrote this book with, are extremely passionate about. So let's break it down. The New York Times recently said women particularly are hitting puberty earlier and earlier.

Cali Means
And the headline front page, nobody knows why. The stories are astounding when people go to Europe. I have friends, actually, who go to Europe. This is maybe TMI, but their breast shrink. This is actually very common.

We are having so many hormone disrupting chemicals in our food that it's causing very pronounced reproductive and sexual issues, and it's also leading to a pronounced decrease in the puberty age, because our food is filled with thousands of chemicals that I help lobby and create rigged studies saying, all these chemicals are healthy. They're in the us food, they're not in other foods. Glyphosate, for example. Glyphosate. Glyphosate is a huge one.

Glyphosate is totally being phased out in Europe. And Bayer, that owns it, who I used to consult for, is producing studies saying, it's just fine. I would actually just say, let's step back and just use common sense. We have these poisons throughout our food. And they say, well, where's the research?

They're funding the research. It is just not good to be eating these neurotoxins, these hormone disrupting neurotoxins. So that's leading to earlier puberty. And then you have a situation where, you know, just from the overall health of children, as we talked about, it's a disaster. You know, there's clearly everything is going up all at once.

So you have kids getting those prediabetes diagnosis, having obesity, having high cholesterol, and then instead of doctors telling them, well, this might actually be the signs of your cells malfunctioning, this might be signs of. It is signs of underlying metabolic dysfunction. That's probably going to lead to more depression, more infertility, more things down there. No. Instead of addressing these warning signs we talk about in the book, symptoms should be seen as gifts.

I mean, if you have, you know, a little bit of obesity, a little bit of, um. I've had people say that their autoimmune conditions and. And getting more curiosity about their. Their diet has been the best thing that ever happened to them. I mean, acne, you talked about.

Yeah, acne, these are all signs. Yeah. And instead of seeing these symptoms as gifts, the kids are told, oh, no, no problem. Just. Just, you know, we're not changing lifestyle, behavior.

So then we get into reproductive age, and I don't think there's anything more stark. And this isn't just a woman issue, it's happening to both. Male sperm count is plummeting, male infertility is skyrocketing. But let's focus on PCOS. I think we all know many people who are struggling with PCos, the leading cause of infertility.

After kind of ignoring the warning signs, after a step function increase in the. All these metabolic issues among kids, you get to try and have a kid. PCOS, which is now affecting up to 26% of women of childbearing age. I mean, it's an epidemic right now. So you go to an OB gyn's office.

I know them. I know many Ob gyns from Harvard and top schools. They're incentivized on procedures. If you figure out how to reverse that PCos and have your kid naturally, they hate that their cars and mortgage are paid for and their entire salaries based on the number of procedures and the number of interventions and the number of drugs they prescribe. Like birth control?

Like birth control, like hormone pills. And the IVF is huge. So that's the simple economic fact. They are high fiving when you come in and they think you're going to get ivF, and they're absolutely pushing you. Oh, let's not take a risk.

We should probably just go with that. So that's the economic incentive, and that's not a conspiracy. That's just the fact. I talk to OB gyns all the time. I'm not trying to call anyone out, but that's just the truth.

Okay. They obviously got into this for their reasons. They're not trying to harm you, but their economic incentive is absolutely that they make much more money when you are on a path of procedures. Let's take what PCOS actually is. PCOS isn't related to diabetes and insulin resistance.

It is insulin resistance. It literally is insulin resistance. We talk about this in the book. Um, it is not only something that studies show the keto diet intervention can dramatically reverse, it is a blaring warning sign of metabolic dysfunction that, if not gotten under control, will lead to more comorbidities and probably an earlier death. So it is actually a welcome.

It should be a welcome warning sign of that metabolic dysfunction. I have yet to meet a woman in traditional medicine route whose doctor has informed her that what this disease actually is, what this condition actually is, that it is insulin resistance. Now, I am not here to lecture anyone, any woman, on what they should be doing. I do emphatically think that all patients should have the correct information to be able to make an informed decision. And again, in Europe, but this is highly understood.

And there's actually steps. In many countries, there's steps, and it's food interventions, it's supplement interventions, and then up to IVF, which is a great option, but it's a very invasive and gruesome procedure that should not be encouraged. And I think many patients, most patients with the correct information would want to go up that stair ladder and that's just not even given as an option. So I think, again, there's two big issues with the fertility crisis right now, where gestational diabetes is skyrocketing, miscarriages are skyrocketing, PCOS is skyrocketing, sperm count, erectile dysfunction, all these things are absolutely exploding. We're really, our bodies, in my opinion, are just crying out, hey, this is our core evolutionary function and we're not trying to even reproduce anymore.

And instead of seeing that as a warning sign, instead of seeing that as the root cause of something much more important, that's going to cause other issues that we really need to get a hold of with simple methods. We're pilling it, and we have advertisers trying to say, get the ozembic, get the birth control pills, get the viagra, all these things. Again, it's not a blanket thing, but it's not a deficiency. Erectile dysfunction is not a deficiency of Viagra, it's actually your body crying out of metabolic issues. The statistics and correlations between other comorbidities and early death with people with untreated erectile dysfunction are very.

It's a very serious warning sign. So that's my issue with fertility, and it's very personal, because my mom's first real warning, she was very healthy, thin, and her twenties, thirties, was really what we think is gestational diabetes. With me, I was born at twelve pounds, and she got high fives from the doctors and oh, it's so cool, a big baby, that's a direct sign of metabolic dysfunction. For the mom, a baby over much over nine pounds, it's a blaring warning sign of metabolic dysfunction. Not told.

And then that kind of started and was one of the first signs of her cascading metabolic health issues. Standard american things. As I said, stan's metformin up the ladder, I pray and wish. And the reason we wrote this book, quite frankly, is because if my mom was told, hey, great job, got a big baby, that's a sign of, actually an underlying issue, hey, you might die earlier and you might suffer more if you don't, we can use these things as a way to maybe spur the path of curiosity and lifelong habits that you went on. So that's how I see the fertility issue.

Mari Llewelyn
Just an interesting note back to the puberty conversation, and this might be TMI as well, but I grew up in the UK and Switzerland for the most part, and I moved to the US when I was ten. I didn't hit puberty till I was like 16 years old, and every girl around me was getting it fifth grade, 6th grade. And it's just interesting to me. It's not that I was eating a super healthy diet in the UK, but I was eating baguettes, ham, cheese, things that were not necessarily covered in glyphosate. So I just wonder if that had anything to do with it.

I want to know your thoughts on post pill pcos. This is a term I've heard a lot. I wonder, as women, if we're not put on birth control, which most of us, I mean, I was on it for ten years, as are many women, would I still have PCOS symptoms had I not gone on the pill for that long? I can't speak to that specifically, but I would just say we need to appreciate how these treatments are very seriously impacting our physiology. I mean, I'm not here to say the birth control isn't birth control pill isn't great, but I don't think it would be approved today if it was up for approval.

Cali Means
I mean, this pill was made in the 1950s. It was the first chronic disease treatment, and it actually started and unlocked the chronic disease pharmaceutical industry that we have today, because people could see that they could convince people to be on one pill for a long period of time. And I think the medical system kind of has it both ways, where they say, well, this is going to so dramatically impact your core evolutionary function, um, and be like an extremely powerful pill that you're taking every day for life, affecting some of your core physiology. And it's like, low side effect. It's like, that's kind of this bill we've been sold.

It's like, um, let's just, let's just have an honest conversation. A lot of these pharmaceutical products that were pushed on us that they said are very safe, on the one hand are like, you know, changing our immune system, changing our hormones, and on the other hand, they're saying it's just fine. I mean, these things have real impacts. And I think I. This is how I would describe it, my high level philosophy.

I take what your question and tie it to the fact that there's a 30% to 35% c section rate and everyone says that's fine. And the fact that there's all these interventions in the birth process and in the kind of reproductive process, it just doesn't stand to reason that we've kind of like, we've fooled with so many aspects of our health, of particularly our reproductive function, and then say everything is fine. It's like we have no idea. We will, in 100 years, look back on day and say we haven't known an iota about the miracle of producing life. I was born with a c section.

It's very important. And giving birth is very dangerous, and some interventions are very important. But a 35% rate where we kind of cascade these issues, every birth story you hear is a disaster these days. It's like, well, there was this or there was this. It's a cascading group.

I don't think doctors necessarily want that, but it's very profitable that's happening. And just messing with the. But watching my wife give birth, we did a natural process. It was, I think, one of the most empowering, amazing moments for her. It was just beautiful.

And that's being taken away. I think women are being told they can't do it, and I think they're being bullied. And I think, who even knows what the lack of the microbiome issues by not having a natural birth or the hormonal issues for the woman of what a natural birth signals to the rest of their body. Then we have all these problems with breastfeeding. It's just this cascading issue where we're pumping women with a bunch of hormones, we're doing unnatural things, and then we're throwing up our hands and wondering why all these bad things are happening.

So I think it is kind of always just getting a little bit back to basics. It's not being a Luddite and not embracing technology, but I would say we should be embracing technology and innovation more to understand our core evolutionary biology, what our core cellular needs are, and fixing that, not trying to hack the fact that we're being poisoned. The whole birthing process is interesting. I've done a lot of research about it just because I'm curious. And I've heard when you're in the hospital, number one, they're trying to get you out of there as soon as possible, right, to get the bed free.

Mari Llewelyn
And then, number two, while you're in labor, asking you, oh, do you want this? Do you want this? Do you want this? And you're kind of being pressured to take medications that you're not really aware of. Is that true?

Cali Means
Oh, absolutely. So just backing up my principle is trust the system on acute issues, things that are gonna kill you right away, and don't trust it on chronic issues. Birth is an interesting case because giving birth 100 years ago was more dangerous than a woman having breast cancer today. It isn't absolutely something where medical interventions on the three to 5% of edge cases are really important. I want to be really clear on that.

I do think the medical system has used that power and used that trust to over medicalize the process. So what I'm seeing a lot is you're in that crisis situation, which I think is brought on. So you've got the pitocin you're inducing that leads to another issue. So you've started the first kind of the tipping point is you started this cascade through the pitocin, the inducement, the pain mitigation. You have all these unnatural processes.

You have iv's just going into the mom in very different ways, and that cascades to more issues. So once one of those interventions cascades to a new issue, it's like, we got to do this, and the mom is sitting there, you know, in fear. We had a situation where even with the natural birth, they were trying to put antibiotics into my wife, and we've talked about that. It's really problematic. If you need an antibiotic, take an antibiotic 100%.

We absolutely over prescribe them. And it's really powerful and important with birth, with the baby's microbiome forming and all these things of that we don't even understand, to try to avoid as much as possible that baby being flooded in any way with any antibiotics, it's problematic. Just without thinking, they tried to give my wife antibiotics without even like, need it. So you absolutely should try to be an advocate. But it's a very scary situation.

But this is what happens when we over medicalize processes. And yeah, I think Casey talks about this very eloquently in the book. I think that robbing of agency from women during childbirth, which I think is the most transformative and important act any human of either gender does, and life defining and amazing, having a bunch of tubes, having a bunch of interventions, being seeing it as something you need to time. I think that's really problematic and systemic of how our awe and curiosity of our general biological functions have been taking away from us. I think it's a huge problem.

And yeah, I'd really urge folks to try to be. Well, I'd urge moms to honestly do whatever the hell they want. But I think you should be well aware that these interventions cascade and often lead to really suboptimal experiences. I agree. I would like to know all of the medications I'm going to be offered before I go in there.

Mari Llewelyn
So I know. I've also heard a lot of people in my generation are having these crazy allergies because they were born through c section they're not getting the necessary fluids on the eyes and the face when they're born naturally. I was born naturally, which I actually just recently found out. And that, like, I'm very grateful for that because I do think it makes. I personally notice a difference in the health of someone born via c section versus natural.

Cali Means
Yeah, it's always sensitive talking to parents and giving parenting advice. Right. But I do think we also need, like, some real talk. So the system is totally rigged against kids. I think with the stats we talked about, with the harrowing stats on childhood chronic disease, a large part of me does blame the system.

I don't think parents are systematically trying to poison their kids, which is what's happening. I think there's some addiction tendencies where parents are metabolic, dysfunctional, overweight, and trying to justify their behavior by making it normalized and giving their kids that same food. I think there's a lot to unpack, and I think it is, frankly, a lot from the trillions of dollars of incentives that I saw that are rigged against the american people. But this book is kind of twofold because it's kind of me on the systemic angle. My sister, who's, you know, and it's got genius bottoms up tips.

And I do think it's two parts, and I think we should speak plainly to parents. I think there's going to be two classes of people in the next generation. I mean, it's kids that are being, you know, hormones are completely being disrupted by ultra processed food who are sedentary, who basically cells are just like, not set up for success. That, of course, impacts the brain with mental health issues, developmental issues. I mean, obviously there's luck of the draw here, but we are literally almost systematically looking at the attributes our kids cells need to thrive and depriving them of that.

And I think really, from the point of birth forward, I mean, yeah, 100%. We have no idea how all these interventions of birth are impacting our kids microbiome, impacting their development. It's not good, I can promise you. And then you get to the food, you get to the sedentary, you get to the environmental toxins, you get to sleep, dysregulation, you get to these basic things where we're basically all at once assaulting kids. Then we give them smartphones, weapon of mass destruction for chronic stress.

But you really can just, like, look at the metabolic needs that a child has. Chronic stress, sleep, exercise, food, and parents that are doing a better job at that, and really, like, resisting the advice in the normal system. I really do think are setting their kids up for better success. And I think the kids that are following the standard american kind of incentive structure, I really, truly worry about our human capital and our country right now. I mean, we are.

We are, like, almost doing a science experiment of giving these kids everything that we know is, like, wrong for theirselves and it's impacting their bodies and their brains. So I think you talk to any parent right now who has high school or, you know, kids are. Kids are kind of in that range. It's very, very concerning. I've yet to meet a parent that, that doesn't think this is the biggest issue in the country.

Mari Llewelyn
I'm curious, speaking about this. You know, I'm coming from a place of privilege because I have the knowledge, I have the resources. When I eventually have children, I know what to feed them and what to do. But for people who are listening or not listening, who maybe don't have the same resources, like, are they set up to be able to create this life for their kids? Like, can they afford it?

Cali Means
This is my framework of the theory of change. I don't think we can lie to ourselves. We have to get policy changed for people at the neediest end of the spectrum. They're not probably listening to this podcast. They're not buying our products.

And that's just the fact. I think sometimes you're like, oh, we can all change this in the bottoms up. I want to be clear. If the largest and fastest growing industry in the country and the most powerful industry is predicated on the american people being sick, particularly preying upon poor people, we're screwed, and they are screwed unless we change that. My theory of change is that movements start first by preaching to the converted.

So I do think it's important that the most popular podcasts, including this one, people are waking up, taking bottoms of change, buying your product. My company trumed the entire goal of our company. What we do is we drive tax free money and incentivize people to save tax free, like 40% on healthy products. We have to steer and help people that are on that path of curiosity. Write the books, do the podcasts create great products?

But that's happening. You just had Nicholas on from Sweetgreen. Like, sweet green is crushing it. People are voting with their wallets. People are like, there's clearly.

I mean, this issue is resonating. I mean, you look at what's happening with RFK, you look at the political environment. I'm meeting with people from both sides of the aisle. This issue of kids being poisoned and then drugged for profit is absolutely setting people's hair on fire. People are waking up.

So that's happening by preaching to the converted as that culture change and more and more people join this movement, and more people buy these products, read these books, kind of get outraged by this, hopefully listen to this podcast, make changes in their own bottoms up life. Then I think you can have the cultural force to change policy. And changing policy is not hard. To be very clear, it is a step function difference between what's happening here and happening in Europe and happening in Japan. My framework, which I'm working with a number of leaders across the aisle on, are stop recommending poison and stop subsidizing poison.

We recommend kids to eat sugar. The USDA says that a child should have 10% of their diet added sugar. People listen to doctors. The head of the NIH, head of Harvard Medical School, the president, et cetera, should be urgently saying we need a metabolic health reset among kids. Just saying that we listen to doctors.

I mean, literally, just like the science should be clear on that. And then we incentivize this ultra processed toxic food. It's not the free market at work. That a sweet green salad has to be $16 and a Big Mac is like $2. That's actually subsidies.

The cost of that Big Mac is not reflected. And the incredible benefit of that salad and what's in that is not reflected. This is not the free market at work. That's a rigged system. Them these price disparities.

So there's a way to just change the incentives. But yeah, that's my theory. It's advocate, it's incentivize these healthy products and path of curiosity for people on that journey. And then what we're doing is we're actually taking the CEO's of our companies. We're working with Nick at Sweetgreen, Nick Green from thrive market and other leading companies.

We are taking them and we're advocating together. So we actually have a coalition of dozens of health and wellness leaders. And one thing we're doing is we're taking these stories of people taking bloom and doing the CrossFit CEO's on this coalition as well. Actually, really, literally, we should be sharing your story. Literally, people that have literally done exactly what you did, which is reverse obesity, reverse other risks of chronic conditions, by largely going outside the system, and explain how money in the system should be incentivizing more stories like you.

Those stories really resonate. And we're kind of using the change happening of so many people. You're talking to this podcast to educate leaders who do care about those stories and then tie those to policies to incentivize more of that for the neediest people? And we've got to. But, you know, I always go to this, you know, Medicaid, which is the, which is the health program for lower income Americans, we spend more as a government on mitochondrial disease, mitochondrial issues like diabetes, than the defense budget.

The thing that's bankrupting our country, when you look at the budget, is a lower income diabetic person. We as taxpayers are paying millions of dollars for that person right now and not helping them. So what if Medicaid, you have somebody that's 20 and on the verge of diabetes. What if we paid them to exercise? What if we actually incentivize, like they do in Sweden and give them a card to go to a farmer's market and educate them and have them be able to buy, enable them to buy healthy food for their family and educate them on that with targeted dietary plans?

People want to be healthy. They follow incentives. We could do that, and that would be so much cheaper because right now we subsidize food that's causing trillions of dollars of downstream health impacts for us. We literally subsidize it, then it causes trillions of dollars downstream impacts. And then because the pharma and the healthcare industry has completely bought off our system, we just pay for that as taxpayers.

So that's my theory of change. Do you think that there's a shift in, I mean, I feel like there is a shift in what people are consuming. I feel like people are moving away from mainstream media. They're listening to podcasts. They're on social media.

Mari Llewelyn
Hopefully they're getting this information. Do you think that's happening or do you think there's. I mean, I think I've heard you say this, actually. There's nutritionists being paid by the big food industry to say things that are making us sicker. Yeah, I think there's a bottoms up.

Cali Means
There's absolutely. I mean, I think we're seeing it, a bottoms up revolution happening. Yeah, I was blown away. I mean, my sister and I are both running companies, and you haven't had paid pr or anything for the book. And it debuted, it sold 66,000 copies in its first week.

It debuted number one, and I was really proud of that. And I was really surprised. I think there's something. Tell us the name of the book really quick. Good energy.

Mari Llewelyn
Good energy. Good energy is the name of the book we're in with my sister doctor Casey means right after our mom's death, we really wanted to put these issues, really prevent the needless deaths that are happening. I think in the standard american patient where people are getting comorbidities, then eventually the small things, because they're not solved, and the root causes and address lead to big things. And we're dying earlier in the United States, now we're suffering more, and then we're dying earlier. And we talk about metabolic health, we talk about the systemic issues, and we talk about really a handbook for tips based on Casey's just genius on outlining really tangible tips.

Cali Means
But that was a small data point of just like people are clamoring for this. I mean, again, you look at the top podcast charts, you look at the top books, people are buying bio wearables and doing all these companies like function Health, Doctor Hyman's company, people are clamoring to pay out of pocket for better things. I think the distrust that's grown of our institutions, particularly our medical system, I think it's a very positive thing. I think we should be very proud of what the medical system's done for acute issues, things that were going to kill us right away, as I said, but it's lost its way. And I think this is part of the american system.

I actually, this is a story of love. My sister and I are on to kind of get this message out. I think it's a story of optimism. I don't think in China they're having, you know, podcasts all the time, the most popular podcast, basically bashing the existing system. Like, I think this is all part of the system.

It's good. I think people are waking up. And again, where I'm trying to play is like, take that. The problem from a public policy perspective is this is becoming a huge issue, this kind of poisoning of the american people. But when I worked for the food and pharma industry, we were able, the second there was a bill like the food stamps, it was like, okay, lobby, lobby, lobby on that issue.

Like, let's make. They're able to target their efforts. So what I'm really trying to do is use those tasks, tactics, both of the company and the associated coalition. It's like, let's use those tactics of channeling this voice of people and this frustration of people. But we've got to target to specific issues, specific executive orders that we're drafting, specific bills, and then have the momentum from a coalition of people that are frustrated about this, like letting leaders know.

That's how, frankly, you get policy change that's what the soda companies do. And the pharma companies, they have a bunch of old people call and be like, don't take away my drugs. It's like, this is just how it works. You need to be more organized. And we're trying to do that.

That's where I'm trying to play. So I was telling you before, my conversation with Doctor Hyman was incredible. But we also spoke about the medical industry, pharma, and potentially putting out content like that gets shadow banned or pushed out of the algorithm because. And also, then I think of RFK. I actually met him at Gold's gym once, and he's silenced all the time.

Mari Llewelyn
Why is that happening? Or how is that happening? Well, it's the same thing. It's fallen. So again, I don't go to conspiracies.

Cali Means
I just go to the economics. The pharma is, we talked about the largest funder of mainstream news. They're also one of the largest funder of YouTube ads. They have a direct line. And this has been under discussed.

I mean, it came out a lot with the Twitter kind of stuff, but this is like, again, let's be super explicit. Working for the pharma companies, we saw advertising as public affairs, lobbying expenditures. What do I mean by that? I mean, it was like literally a way. Okay, let's give Google millions of dollars.

We're probably definitely getting banned here. Or shadow banned. They need the truth to get out. We love you, big pharma. Google's great.

Google's great. It's probably people that used to work there, but they have. I mean, it's just logic, right? If you're giving someone millions of dollars, you have a direct line to them. And then, of course they have the blanket of credibility.

Oh, that's misinformation. Here's a study. I got shadow banned for talking about food colorings being harmful. Oh, like red dye? Yeah.

And we're on a warpath with. We're working on a number of different things at trumed just to kind of advocate this issue. But Jason Karp, who founded who chocolates, and Vani Hari, food babe on Instagram, and a couple others, we have this like, loose coalition where we're taking on Kellogg's. I think they're actually gonna take the dyes out because we have 100,000 signatures and we're really putting some pressure on them. But one of the things I said about the red dyes, which are tied to neurological issue, ADHD are not basically allowed in Europe.

They fact checked that with a study that's totally paid for by the food companies, saying, oh, and they've done with glyphosate, too. Glyphosate is totally fine. They just call Google and, like, this is not right. There's a study saying glyphosate is fine. So that's how it works.

It's that simple. It's the money and the credibility. You know, it's the institution of trust. They got the studies. They've got the NIH saying this.

They've got all this credentialing. Harvard med school. It all ties together to influence people. The members of Congress tell me all the time. They're like, I don't like this.

They're like, I don't like the fact that kids are sick. But anytime I do anything on nutrition, I got a lobbyist in my office just pounding studies down my throat saying, you're anti science if you restrict ultra processed food. I talked to while back about. Everyone was giggling about the NIH study and Tufts nutrition school that said lucky charms are healthier than beef. Literally.

That's what the NIH study said. And Joe Rogan tweeted about it. It kind of became a thing. It was kind of this funny talking point of how ridiculous it is. The problem is, that study, the purpose of it was to influence childhood nutrition guidelines.

And it's very real because you get that study, it looks ridiculous. Lucky terms are healthier than beef on the score. But then they go into school boards, they go into other pots of money and say, no, no, you don't need fresh food. You can do lucky charms. The grains and lucky charms are fortified and totally healthy, and it's, you know, so that's what those studies are used for.

It's all kind of like this, rigged. But, yeah, that's how I see the Google thing. It makes me think of the twin study on Netflix, the vegan, and the. It was funded by beyond meat. Bizarre.

Mari Llewelyn
Anyways, I think you gave us some really good information about how we can fix this problem, and I really admire what you and your sister are doing. I think the book is incredible. I love the mission for someone listening who maybe feels like they are stuck in the system. Maybe they're on medication, they're eating processed food. They don't know where to begin.

What would you recommend? So, I would say this is a mindset issue. It's very scary. I have friends who are on SSRI's and their psychiatrist. That's very dangerous to go off of those.

Cali Means
It's very dangerous to go off your stat, they use the fear against you. Uh, my high level parameter, I can't speak to an individual case. My high level parameter is the acute versus chronic framework. I just can't stress this enough. If you aren't imminently going to die, if you have a chronic, you know, the, the borderline cholesterol, the, the pre diabetes, the thing, the obesity, um, you have, you should be empowered to experiment and investigate this off ramp from the pharmaceutical treadmill that you are absolutely incentivized to be on.

I just would strongly recommend reading a book by Mark Hyman. We literally wrote this book, good energy to not solve everything, but start people on a journey. We wrote this for people that are maybe on the journey to give their friends. Who wants to start? That's the purpose of this book.

I just say there's much less risk generally, and getting off of that pharmaceutical treadmill, then it's being told to you, the record of accomplishment of the medical system in managing, preventing, and reversing chronic diseases is a record of utter shame and failure. They literally couldn't be worse. Your doctor deserves to be listened to, but does not deserve the benefit of the doubt on that. And so many people have transform their lives and call it the best experience of their lives by starting to question and starting to look at more root cause interventions and get off those meds. But I have friend after friend, I'm sure you do, who are on this path.

And their cardiologist is shocked at their cholesterol levels. They still try to keep them on the stands. Oh, just out of abundance of caution, just go outside the system. And I think it's a worthy goal to try to be on as less chronic disease pharmaceuticals as possible. You know, they say Ozip, it can help jump start.

They say that, you know, these drugs can help jump start better habits. I don't. There's no evidence of that. There's really none. These are moral hazards.

You know, it's a free country. I'm a libertarian. Like, take Ozympic if you want to take it. It's not a long term solve. It's a crash diet.

Statins are a temporary thing that the second you go off and then you're back to where you were, it's just like these things aren't curing anything. So that's one important thing. Just have the confidence to question what your doctor is saying on chronic conditions and realize that the answers are actually much more simple in many ways than you're led to believe. And most other animals are able to come up with them. I also think more resources are popping up now.

Mari Llewelyn
I mean, I know a lot of people struggle to get the lab testing that they want. And now, you know, mark Hyman just released function health. There's ways you can go about it. So guys, if you're listening, I hope you're inspired. I know I'm pretty shocked right now.

I knew sort of a surface level of everything happening, but you really just dove deep and I appreciate you exposing the industries that need to be exposed. I'd love to hear where everyone can find you online. Where can they buy the book? Give us all the info. Awesome.

Cali Means
Well, I'm on the socials, Instagram and twitter at callie. C a l l e y m e a n s. Just trying in any way I can to change these incentives so good energy is available wherever you buy books. My sister and I put our heart and soul into this and my company is trumed truemed.com and quick, quick pitch on that. It's born out of this mission.

You can go there and hundreds of brands from your gym membership supplements. We really vet the brands. It's the best, best brands and all clinically vetted. In three minutes. You can qualify to use your HSAfSA dollars on that.

So people are buying their pelotons, CrossFit memberships, supplementation with tax free dollars. And it's a way not only to save thousands of dollars, but we're really building a community of people that I think are feeling emboldened to use their medical dollars not to be on the sick care system, but to take root cause actions which is perfectly appropriate under the law and what we should be encouraging. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us on the pursuit of Wellness podcast.

Mari Llewelyn
To support this show, please rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my favorites@marielewellyn.com dot it will be linked to in the show notes. This is a wellness out loud production produced by Drake Peterson, Fiona Attucks and Kelly Kyle. This show is edited by Mike Fry and our video is recorded by Luis Vargas.

You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Mario Fitness. Love you pal girls and pal boys. See you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advisors and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.

As always, talk to your doctor or health team.

Exposing Big Food & Pharma: Advertising Tactics, Ozempic Controversy, Healthcare Corruption & How To Create Change w/ Calley Means

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1: Introduction

2: The Big Picture

3: Deep Dive into Ozempic

4: Solutions and Actions

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