One Chart Businesses Guaranteed To Make +$1M From Day 1

This episode explores the strategies for identifying and leveraging business opportunities with high revenue potential from day one, specifically focusing on the concept of one chart businesses.

1. Leveraging audiences can transform the revenue model for content creators, shifting from ad-based earnings to significant equity in businesses.
2. Regulatory compliance businesses offer a low-risk, high-reward opportunity due to mandatory adherence by companies.
3. The concept of one chart businesses simplifies the complexity of business opportunities, focusing on high-potential, low-effort ventures.
4. Persistent engagement and quick decision-making are crucial for capitalizing on business opportunities.
5. Cash flow is more critical than net worth for real financial stability and freedom.

1: Introduction

Sean Percival introduces the episode and guest Jeremy Giffon, setting the stage for a discussion on highly lucrative business opportunities. Sean Percival: "Welcome back to the HubSpot Podcast Network."

2: Leveraging Audiences

Jeremy Giffon discusses how content creators can use their influence to build or buy businesses, thus maximizing their revenue potential. Jeremy Giffon: "The big opportunity is to build a business around someone with an audience and share the equity."

3: Regulatory Compliance as Opportunity

The discussion shifts to how regulatory compliance businesses provide a stable and essential service, ensuring steady cash flow due to government regulations. Jeremy Giffon: "Regulatory compliance businesses are low lift with high stakes, making them excellent opportunities."

4: The Importance of Quick Action

Sean and Jeremy emphasize the importance of acting swiftly and decisively in the business world to seize opportunities. Sean Percival: "Quick action can often mean the difference between capitalizing on an opportunity and missing out."

5: Rethinking Financial Success

The episode concludes with a philosophical discussion on the importance of cash flow over net worth in measuring true financial success. Jeremy Giffon: "Cash flow, not net worth, is the true indicator of financial health."

1. Identify Your Audience: Content creators should analyze their audience's needs and interests to find or create products that genuinely appeal to them.
2. Explore Regulatory Niches: Look for industries with high regulatory demands; these sectors offer lucrative opportunities for compliance-oriented businesses.
3. Develop Quick Decision-Making Skills: In business, opportunities can come and go quickly; developing the ability to make fast, informed decisions is crucial.
4. Focus on Cash Flow Generating Investments: When evaluating business opportunities, consider those that generate consistent cash flow over those that promise only long-term capital gains.
5. Leverage Existing Assets: Utilize current assets, such as a loyal audience or specialized knowledge, to launch businesses with a built-in advantage.

Episode 574: Sam Parr ( https://twitter.com/theSamParr ) and Shaan Puri ( https://twitter.com/ShaanVP ) talk to Jeremy Giffon about what businesses he would buy if he was starting Tiny TODAY and a bunch of opportunities that he sees people sleeping on.

Want to see Sam and Shaan’s smiling faces? Head to the MFM YouTube Channel and subscribe - http://tinyurl.com/5n7ftsy5

People

Jeremy Giffon, Sean Percival

Companies

Tiny

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Jeremy Giffon

Content Warnings:

None

Sean Percival
All right, this is part two of the episode with Jeremy Giffon. He is the first employee at Tiny. He was there from the beginning when they turned $5 million of equity into roughly $500 million of business value and took the company public just by buying businesses. So last time we asked them about those early days, about the first business they bought, the mistakes they made, the lessons they learned. This episode is different.

Now we're asking him, if I was doing tiny today, how would I do it? How can I do the same thing that they did? What businesses would I buy? What trends, what opportunities does he see? And he tells us the single best investment opportunity he sees today and why he's putting his money behind that.

So this is a fascinating episode, part two with Jeremy Giffen. Enjoy.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I put my all in it. Like, no days off, road less travel, never looking back. I want to ask you about opportunities.

So what business opportunities, trends, or ideas do you have that people who are listening can kind of expand their. Their scope? Right. I remember when I was trying to be an entrepreneur, one of the big, big problems I had was I only thought the world was this big, tiny, little circle, and I was only looking for opportunities in that, inside my tiny circle. And it was only when I listened to podcasts.

And I kind of wish MFM is a podcast. I wish existed at the time, but it's like, only when I would listen to certain people talk or hang out at a dinner, I would hear some idea that was not something I'd ever consider. So my circle got bigger and bigger and bigger. And then the more that circle got bigger, the more opportunities I saw. So if I told you, what are the juiciest opportunities that you see right now that somebody could do, or that you think a smart person could go.

Jeremy Giffon
Go for the second most interesting opportunity, that is what I'd be doing. If I wasn't raising a fund to do these buyouts. It would be finding people with audiences and either buying businesses for them or building businesses for them. So I think it's like a anomaly. Like, the business is in its toddler stage, that the way most people with audiences monetize is through ad reads or sponsorships.

I think it's kind of like Hollywood. When you. You're a big star, you'd get paid to hold up a glass of Coca Cola or something. And I think every person with an audience will eventually, the money that they make from equity in a business that they own will massively dwarf the money that they make from ad rates or sponsorship reads. But the big problem here is generally, if you're a great podcaster or content creator, the last thing you want to do is buy a business for one that's risking capital that's hard, or even start and run a business.

And so I think there's a big opportunity to basically build a business around someone with an audience and come to them and say, look, I will be the CEO of this thing. I think this is the perfect product for you guys to really organically use and like and talk about for a long time. And I will run it and we'll split the equity or something like that. Joe Rogan did this with Onnit and sold that company for a lot of money. And there's other examples.

Doug Demuro with his cars and bids, and people are starting to do this, but it's still very early. And I think that if I was just going to start a business de novo, I would say, okay, who are content creators that I really like and what is the perfect product for them? And then just make it easy. It's a pretty low risk proposition for you guys, for example. But if you do it right, like, even if with an audience of your size, you can have nine figure exits, you know, over four or five years, and that'll obviously dwarf all the money you make from advertising.

Sean Percival
If anyone wants to do this, sean@seanpurri.com feel free to hit me up. All right, a quick message from our sponsor, which is, of course, HubSpot. Now, look, growing a business is tough, and it's tough because a lot of times you have to duct tape a ton of software together to make it work. I've been there, and it's a pain in the butt. You have this thing connecting to that thing, and the two things that are being connected, one of them breaks or the thing connecting them doesn't work.

Sam Parr
And it I just, it's a mess. You have all these moving parts, and it's just a pain in the butt because you don't know where the single source of truth is. And that's where HubSpot's customer platform comes into play. Finally, you've got this single source of truth where everything is organized and tracked in one place. For example, if you have customers emailing you, they've got really easy ways to see who on your team is replying to which customer, what they're saying and things like that, and you can track it all in one place.

They also have a lot of AI supported stuff, which means that you can automatically know which type of messaging you need to send to that type of customer. And yes, it sounds natural, like a real person. I've actually use it. I use it with my company, Hampton, and it works wonderfully. And when leads come in, you know which channel they came through, you know who's going to follow up with them.

And it's all seamless and easy. So if you're interested, it's simple. Go to HubSpot.com and check it out and see how you can use it to grow your business. By the way, this is how tiny is doing this Matina, which is the drink they're doing with Huberman. They bought a yerba mate company, and then he loves mate, and he's been drinking it for a long time.

Sean Percival
It's the perfect type of product. So they did that for him where if Huberman was like, and now I'm going to take a break from my science stuff to go become a searcher and go find a business, a PE deal to do, that'd be crazy for him. But tiny doing it makes sense. They also did it with James clear. They built the habits app, right?

So, you know, another app versus ad read type of thing. So I think they're executing on it. Well, this is also how Congo brands built prime. So they, they did Alani Nu and then they were like, okay, cool, we're gonna do prime. They went and pitched Logan Paul and KSI, and they were like, hey, you guys are gonna be the promotion engine of this.

You get equity, you know, significant equity in this, and we're gonna be the operational backend for this. And we know, we know how to do this. We can build a, in their case, what's probably going to be a $10 billion plus company off of that, that brand. Yeah, it's, it's definitely starting, but I think, and, like, the trending group has been very good at it with, um, you know, they did Doug Namiro and, um, Steven Ronella with the, the hunting stuff. And it's definitely starting to happen.

Jeremy Giffon
But I think, like, a more, you know, this is a little bit exaggerated, but I think most people in a YC batch could find a podcaster and just say, okay, you're going to be the audience co founder for this thing, and we're going to give you 30% or something, and we're going to work with you, and it's going to be a product that you can sell very organically. Because the broad thesis is that these audiences are still super underpriced. Basically that the equity you're giving up, you'll be more than compensated for, and I think that'll last for quite a long time. And the long tail is really good, too. You could do it with a very niche youtuber and still sell a more expensive product or do it multiple times or whatever.

And I basically just think everyone with an audience will eventually have some really tightly integrated organic product to sell. Love it. All right, so that's a great opportunity, which is go find a content creator who's got a great audience high trust, and basically buy or build the perfect business for them and have them be your audience co founder. I think that's a. It's basically a really unfair distribution advantage you could generate for yourself by doing that.

Sean Percival
All right. Love that. What's, what's another one? One other trend that I'm just really bullish on is, um, basically the idea that everything in the modern world is like poison and toxic. I live in New York.

Jeremy Giffon
The air is making me dumber, the water is ruining my hormones. All the food that I eat at any restaurant is full of seed oils, and everything that I eat is some combination of soy, corn, and wheat. And the wheat is all sprayed in glyphate. Everything is really bad for you. But it's this huge, and I'm kind of a freak about it.

I have water filters and air filters and buy all this specific food and stuff, but it's really mentally taxing. And I really wish, I think it could even just take the form of the wire cutter. But for these are products that are not going to kill you. And the thing is, it's such a nefarious problem that it runs the gamut. It's clothes that isn't made out of polyester bedding that isn't bad for you.

Cleaning products. You could do every single thing in the house. I would love to have a wire cutter kind of thing, which is a great business for just like, this is the version of this thing that is not going to kill you. Dude, check this out. So go to live.

Sam Parr
Oasas.com dot I found this website the other day. My coworkers sent it to me, and they say, do you know whats in your water? 90% of the water sources contain toxins, microplastics, and other contaminants. And then they rank which water as in the cities, but also which water bottles have water brand. I see one that I used to have.

Sean Percival
It's very bad. It says out of 100, it's a very bad. Well, that's the thing, right? Even you try, you think you've done it, and then it turns out the thing you bought doesn't even work. Like, it's very complicated.

Sam Parr
Well, I. And I go to this, and, like, I'm scared because I also see the thing that I have, and it says bad. And then you click it and they make you pay dollar five. And this is definitely a thing that I purchased recently. I'm like, I gotta see which water bottles.

Sean Percival
Like, you click one, it's, like, sad, horrible. I just want, like, okay, like, I need a shampoo. What is the one that, like, Huberman and Attia and Rhonda Patrick all agree on? And I'll just buy that one, you know? Yeah.

Jeremy Giffon
And that can. I think that it can exist for almost every single thing in your house. Ask Sean why he's drinking that water. I know why. Yeah, we hosted this event, this camp MFM event, and it's.

Sean Percival
We do it at Mister Beast's house. We're in, like, remote North Carolina somewhere, and we all show up, and this billionaire shows up. He's got, like, you know, his security guard with him or whatever. And I'm just fasted up, like, oh, how does this guy travel? It flew in private.

He's got a security guard. But then the thing that really stood out was he said, security guard carries this case of waters. So we had Fiji bottles of water, which is like, it's in a plastic. And you probably got that because he thought you were being fancy. You wanted to make a good impression.

I'd be so impressed with my choice here of Fiji. Like, I went. I went for it, and instead, he's got his own, like, aquapona glass bottles. And he was just. He'd always be drinking.

He didn't say anything, but I was like, hey, what are you doing that. Except. Except he made the noise whenever you. When he saw you drink it out of that. Joe, what are you.

I switched to Aquapona for my drinking water for my family. I bought an Athena showerhead filter. So, because the other thing is like, oh, you're drinking one thing, but then you'll go shower, bathe your naked body in, like, the dirtiest tap water with, like, a 30 year old, you know, showerhead in my house. And so afina.com, I bought a showerhead from there. This, like, filters that water.

And so I'm just, like, one by one, replacing different parts of my. My house to try to. Try to get rid of some of the bad stuff. Yeah, the traveling with a crate of mineral water. That's a.

Jeremy Giffon
That's a good. That's a good way to spend money. I like that. All right, so two good ones. I like.

Sean Percival
I like the wire cutter for protestant. Kill you, by the way. It's like, it's just wirecutter is kind of like value based, and in this case, it's health based. And I think that's just like, such a simple model that somebody could do. It's probably like ten years of awesome execution and real, like, love and care.

Like, only the right person should start this business. It's not like anybody can do it, but I do wish somebody did it. I mean, examine. Did it really well for supplements. Like, it certainly can be done.

Jeremy Giffon
It's just. I would know. I would use it every day. Let's do a couple more trends and opportunities. You had talked.

Sean Percival
I asked you a question when we were hanging out yesterday, which was, what are, what's a business type that you really love? Maybe you guys didn't even make an acquisition in the space, but, like, what are categories that you really loved? And you mentioned, I don't know, like a regulation compliance type of category. Can you explain that one? Yeah, for sure.

Jeremy Giffon
So, like, any time a government anywhere introduces some kind of arcane rule, you have to fall like you. If you don't follow, you go to jail. So it's like the ultimate kind of motivation to buy, right? And sometimes it can be really difficult. So we looked at a bunch of examples.

One was, there was this great company, a software company in Italy, that just did banking regulation, make sure all the banks are compliant with all these things. And that's an amazing business because, first of all, you're going long italian regulation, which is probably a great trade in and of itself. But in the future, Italy is going to have more rules than it does today. And then aside from that, it's like a bank is not going to rip that out ever. And it hits that golden criteria, which is it's relatively cheap, but mission critical.

That's like a really great one. And there's a bunch of these. There's all these for buying a house, for vetting tenants, for KYC and AML.

If you start looking for it day to day, you see it a lot. Like, I just rented a car, and there's a process there where they check my license against some database. And I'm sure that's a piece of software. Those are great because I love it because it's a low lift and the downside is super high, and you don't really want to mess with it once you've got it working. And the other interesting thing about them is that exists for every country, at least every western country.

And so you can go find the software that does that for Europe or one specific country or whatever, and there's going to be multiple versions of those. Even Canada has different rules than America. Either it's two different software products or two different companies. So I love those businesses as well. And they're also fairly AI resilient, I think, because it's really, again, it's like medical stuff.

It's really high downside, so you don't want to trust it with AI, and then it turns out you weren't in compliance and you're going to get a huge fine or go to prison or something. Yeah, I made a bet recently in the regulatory compliance type of space, and I was like, you know, we have this thing on the pod that we talk about one chart businesses, which is like a business that you don't need a full business plan for. You could just put one chart up on the screen and you say, that's why I'm doing this. And the one in this case was basically that regulation only goes in one direction. It only goes up into the right.

Sean Percival
Nobody ever rolls back any of these needs. It's only going to increase. And so if you could become maybe the go to provider or like a key piece of software in a space like that is, it is just such a bet. Such a bet you want to make because you know that regulation only goes up, you know that like this. Compliance, compliance requirements, they don't just say, yeah, you know what?

Forget them. You don't need all that compliance stuff anymore. Like, this is never going to happen. It's only going to go in one direction. And like you said, you do it or you don't get customers or you get, go to jail.

It's like, well, that's a pretty strong motivator. So, like, you know, I think people are going to want to either get customers or avoid jail. And it's just like the right type of space to be in. It's the type of space that 24 year old me would not have known or appreciated that that's a better business to go into than what I was doing at that time, which was like dating apps, social network, like cool, new sexy, you know, thing. And now I'm like, it's kind of like, what's sexy now is like a knee length skirt.

It's like, you know, show me a compliance business and I'll show you my interests. The other big opportunity for someone who. Who's wanting to start a business is like, you can front run these things, right? You can see what's going to pass. You can see what's just passed, and you can be the first provider for that and have a huge leg up, especially if it's a fairly niche thing.

Jeremy Giffon
You could very well be the only option for a couple of years, which is a huge advantage. Right. Why don't you start these things instead of just investing in them? I don't, uh, I don't like operating businesses. I'm not.

I don't think I'm very good at it, and it's not what I enjoy doing. And so I think everyone should try and do, like, really stay in their zone of genius as much as they can. I think that it's, like, personally very good and also good for the world if that happens. And so I'd rather, like, be allocate capital to the cause. I think I'm good at allocating capital to the person who maybe needs capital and is really excited about building something.

Sam Parr
All right, two more things on here. The first, I actually don't have context on this, but I'm very interested just because of the title, the boy versus the guy. Yeah. So the boy versus the guy. So, um, it could go a bunch of ways.

Jeremy Giffon
It could go a bunch of ways, yeah. And there are a lot of different readings, especially depending on what coast you're on. Yeah. Basically, it's the idea of being a lieutenant or being, like, a protege, effectively would be the classier way to say it, I guess. And so generally, there's the trusted lieutenant, who is just the solid number two, really important, but their whole identity is being a lieutenant to the number one person.

And then there's this other genre, which is, like, on the west coast, it takes shape as a chief of staff a lot, where it's just you're kind of this young rising superstar. There's this sense of you're really gunning for number one. And the idea, what made me notice this originally was, especially in the valley, every billionaire has one or two really young smart boys, generally, who just kind of float around them. And there's this kind of tasked agreement of, you come work for me for two or three years, you shadow me, you're my apprentice, and then I will back you and open doors for you. It was kind of funny.

At some point, I was in social situations where it's like, oh, like, it's kind of like flying under the flag of a lord or something. Like everyone is like going on the private jets of these principals or whatever, and they themselves are probably broke, but they very much lived this lifestyle because they're under the protection of a lord. And so I think it's like there's another. A new kind of piece of information that I've figured out about this is it's also an age gap thing. So if you're within 20 years of the founder or the number one person in the organization, you're almost always going to be a guy.

And if you think of all the great firms or even companies where someone has become the new number one, there's almost always at least a 20 year gap between the person just because otherwise you're too close. And so I think that dictates it a lot as well. But it's these two different things. The other way to put it would be that the principal really sees something in this young person and wants to, you know, can tell they're like on a rocket ship. They're not going to be an employee forever or whatever, but it's like, you give me two or three years and I can really accelerate things for you.

And I think, like, that pairs very nicely with the cold email thing, which is, you know, I generally think, like, if you want to start a company, you should just start a company. Don't go like, work somewhere to get experience or whatever. But I think this might be the sole exception, which it can really open doors of either investment or vouching or connections or whatever. And, you know, there's lots of examples of this. Like, I know Ben Casanocha wrote very publicly about being Reid Hoffman's chief of staff, Blake Masters with Peter Thiel.

Sam Altman was this to Paul Graham. There's all these examples of it that I think are really instructive. I just recorded an episode with Joe Lonsdale, who was this for Peter Thiel. He was basically Peter Thiel's protege and now has started, I don't know, more billion dollar companies than anyone else in the country. And I think, you know, he's a fascinating guy because when he was 18, 1920, he was an intern at PayPal.

Sean Percival
Then he was at Peter's family office. Then he started Palantir with him and then eventually went on to do his own thing. And Joe's done this for a bunch of people. One of my close friends was one of his chief of staffs. And it's an amazing launching pad.

If anyone out there, I'm looking for a boy. Uh, never thought I'd say that. But under this context, I am sure, sure enough looking for a young boy. So we need to start a. We need to start a community.

Sam Parr
We'll call it a weed. Weed. And, boys, I don't know if you. Know this, but I've had four people who are kind of in this bucket. I hired them when they're, let's say, between the ages of 16 to 20, and that have gone on to either become, you know, they've gone on to become millionaires and in some cases, millionaires and, like, successful content creator, podcaster type of folks as well.

Sean Percival
And it's happened four times already. So I'm looking for my fifth. Yeah, I think apprenticing is really underrated. You know, you think about it in the context of being, like, a blacksmith or a carpenter or something, but I think for a lot of these things, it's the single best way to learn. Hey, I've got a question.

Sam Parr
I noticed that you study. Do you study philosophy at Columbia? Yeah, that. So I remembered as a kid, I saw this crazy stat that I think it was the majority of people who scored really high on, not the bar, but the test to get into law school. They actually, most of them, the LSAT, most of them were.

They studied philosophy. That was their. Their undergraduate degree. And then I saw you studied philosophy, and that's kind of an interesting way to go, because now you're raising this massive 100 million plus fund. Did that.

What, what did you learn in philosophy that you think is gonna help you make a good business person? Yeah, I don't know. It's. It's. There's a big.

Jeremy Giffon
It's a big club, you know, leave it to a philosophy major to know every philosophy major, but there's tons of names, you know, Reed Hoffman, Peter Thiel, Peter Fenton, Stuart Butterfield. It's like this weirdly overrepresented thing. My favorite stat about philosophy majors is that it's something like in the top 10% of earners, they're the highest earning of all people. So if you take the top 10% of every major, they're the highest earning in general, they're not the highest earning, but there's that kind of group at the far end. I don't know exactly what it is.

I can speak to my own experience. I think it's just like, if you're going to spend four years thinking about a set of questions, thinking about the most fundamental questions is just really appealing. That's certainly what it was to me. I don't think I really learned anything. That's super.

It's funny, I'm canadian. I had to get a visa to be in America. And a big thing with visas. Is what you studied relevant to what you're working on? And, you know, the answer for philosophy as far as the US government is concerned is, no, it's not relevant to anything.

But I'm always like, well, no, it's relevant to everything. It's like, how should I live? What should I, you know, what should I hope for? What can I know? These are relevant to every field.

And I think maybe the other way, maybe the other cut at it is it's just like being interested in the most fundamental and the most abstract versus like learning, you know, something more applied. Something about that just kind of draws these very kind of curious, I guess, like intellectual. And I don't really mean that in a complimentary way, just like people who think like to think a lot. But there's also a big difference between people who study philosophy in undergrad and then move on and people who study philosophy for their whole lives. Like, those people are really people who just, like, they thought, they think, like, you know what I actually want to think about?

Like, what is a good way to live for the rest of my life? And I think that's a little crazy, right? Like, at some point you want to go, okay, I've like, explored this. Now it's time to go, move on. I wanted to ask you about hold cos, which seemed to be the new trend, or people buying businesses.

Sean Percival
I think a lot of them take inspiration from tiny and what you guys did. What's your take on the hold code trend or influencers out there who are like, I own 500 businesses. What's your take on all that bragging. About how many businesses you own is really weird and probably a contra signal to how good you are. And by the way, anyone who owns a lot of businesses will and should tell you that I know Andrew would certainly if he could have tiny with one business, that would be much better.

Jeremy Giffon
And so it's always a weird thing to say, oh, I've acquired 100 businesses or whatever. I guess unless you're constellation or shore capital or something, where the whole point of it is that you buy a million businesses because, yeah, it's always better if you could have the results from one company, that would be way better than. Than having to own a bunch of them. And that leads to the point about holding companies, which is the thing that people don't understand about holding companies. There's two, like, there's two real reasons why you would start a holding company versus a fund or some other structure.

One is because you want to hold everything forever. And I think that's a fairly faulty premise. So usually when people think. Because so people look at, generally they're looking at two places when they think about the merits of holding everything forever, they look at Buffett or they look at venture capitalists. Um, you know, you don't want to be the person who sold Google at the IPO or whatever.

And, and Buffett famously owns everything, although that's, like, not actually true. Buffett sells stuff all the time. Um, to your point, Sam, about him being a little bit different than his public Persona, um, but like, okay, so both of those groups, Buffett is talking about, railroads and insurance companies and energy companies. These are companies that ostensibly will exist for 50 or 100 years. And venture capitalists, even more than that, they are looking specifically to find the one in 1000 company that will be a 50 year company.

But most companies are not 50 year companies, especially not $5 million software companies. It's kind of crazy to buy a chrome plugin and say, yeah, I need to own this thing for 40 years. It's like, no, first of all, software is really difficult. My kids will inherit this chrome plugin. Yeah, you're not buying one of two railroads in Canada, you're buying the chrome plugin.

And so, first of all, just thinking like, oh, I need to hold this forever, I think is a bit flawed. And then second of all, if you get the chance to sell it for a great price, that is probably the way that you maximize returns if you're actually interested in just making the most money. And so that's one thing with holding companies. The other is that I think when the more investor types start them, they really don't appreciate a holding company is part of it is your holdings. The other half is a company you just run a big operating business.

You know, tiny has, I can't remember, it's like north of 1200 employees across the portfolio. Like, that's a big business that you're running. And for most investors, that is a completely contra skill. Like, if you're a good investor, the last thing you should be doing when you meet a great investor, you're not thinking, oh, you'd be great as the CEO of a 1200 person company. You know, like, generally those are very far apart.

And so what can end up happening is you spend a ton of your time actually just operating a business and you're not able to invest, which is the thing that you're probably the best at. And so, yeah, in general, I think they're quite, they're quite overrated. And you also actually said, you're like most Harvard guys who are trying to buy a plumbing business. They shouldn't buy a plumbing business. They should just go and start a plumbing business.

Yeah, this one always cracks me up. It's like your resume is, you know, Harvard, Goldman Sachs, Harvard Business School, Bridgewater, and then it's like, Ohio plumbing company. And you're always. I always think, like, I get it. You know, the math works, it can be lucrative, whatever.

But I always think, like, imagine if you had, you know, you're this brilliant young person. If you had just moved to Ohio when you were 18 and started a plumbing company. You probably control all the plumbing in the state. You know what I mean? Like, you just wipe the floor with them.

And it's always weird that people want to go through all these loops. I think a lot of it is just to make themselves feel very fancy, like, oh, you know, I set up this deal and it's acquisition, these investors and stuff, but a lot of these businesses, I think if you just started them, you could really wipe the floor with, with the existing competition. You have one more thing that you're known for, which is something like the pre and post fall. I don't know what this is. Can you explain this?

Sean Percival
Somebody texted me this. They go, oh, you got to ask them about pre and post fall. So I define fall. It's like a pseudo biblical idea, but I really define it as a period in your life where you've really been brought to your knees by whatever. It could be a death or a breakup or a health scare or bankruptcy, all these kinds of things that really just kind of humble you.

Jeremy Giffon
Truly, not like how most people say humbled, which is like, oh, I just got on the COVID of Forbes. I'm so humble. It's like, no, it's actually the exact opposite. But, like, truly, truly humbled. And I really think that that changes someone for the rest of their life.

And I think it happens to everyone. I think it happens totally at random times. It could be early in life, it could be late in life, but you can just kind of see it. Of the extreme example of this would be, like, a veteran who's been in a lot of combat. Like, nothing is really going to shake someone who's been in a bunch of firefights, you know?

And, um. And I think that applies, too, as if you've been through really hard, really dark experiences. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, they have their fall while they're building their business, you know, it can get really difficult and hard and lonely. And, um, yeah, the best way to describe it is, like, after someone's post fall, you can just kind of see it in their eyes that they've been through worse, and so they're not going to, it's just not going to shake them that much, versus someone who's pre fall. And by the way, you can become very successful.

You can be late in life, but nothing bad has ever really happened to you. And I view that as kind of a liability in some sense, of if you're going to partner or work with them, of like, boy, like, when something goes off the rails here, this might be a really big blow up, because, of course, like, you know, if you're a broke kid, it's one thing, but if you're, like, a high flying person, the way in which you can blow up is far more spectacular. And. And, yeah, it's really just like, have you really been humbled by life in, like, a true way? And I think when you look at it that way, it's quite evident that people either have or haven't, and I think it makes a big difference.

Sean Percival
Do you want to talk about the special situations, distressed venture stuff, or do you want to save that? Yeah, we can talk about that. Okay, tell us, what is the opportunity here? Yeah, so the opportunity is this is like, really combines a lot of the factors that I love, which is effectively, there's this whole class of venture backed companies where they raise too much money, especially in 2021. And so you get this, like, strange phenomenon where you can have a business that's doing $10 million a year revenue and growing 30% a year, but maybe it raised 40 or $50 million and such that, like, the founder is probably not going to make any money because the pref stack is so high.

Jeremy Giffon
And then the other part is the investor is really not going to make any money, not in the sense that they want to. So a venture investor, they want a good investment to return the fund, generally. And so it's like this weird thing where you have this great asset. If you guys owned a business that was doing 10 million of revenue, growing 30% a year, you'd be very happy with that. But if it's owned by a venture investor and run by a founder who's got this prep stack, the founder's not going to make any money.

The venture investor doesn't really care about it. So it's this. In some sense, it's actually a worthless asset. And so we've done these deals at tiny before, and what I'm really interested in is doing a lot more of them personally. And so I've been talking to a lot of founders and talking to a lot of gps about this, and there's just this huge opportunity, and the opportunity is really to take a business that's because of its cap table.

It's just broken. It's not working for anyone. And turn it into a business that works. So say the founder owns 10% and the prep stack is 50 million. Turn it into a business where they own 30%, and they can run it profitably, and it can be a great business.

A question that I always ask founders is, what would you do if you just bootstrap this thing or if you own the whole thing? And generally, that's a different answer than if they were in their current situation. And it's a service for the venture investors as well, because they, they have to be responsible for these things. They got to go on the board, they got to audit them, they got to think about them. A lot of these companies take up a lot of their time, and they're not the ones that are going to drive returns.

And so it's just this weird kind of vestige of the fact that venture returns have been so high that there's all this waste. Like, there's these 1020, $30 million a year companies that are not really making money for anyone. And there's this weird situation, right, because there's nothing wrong with the business, but you can get them for cheaper than you would otherwise because there's this, like, weird second and third order incentive set. Normally, a distressed business, the business is broken. Yeah, exactly.

Sean Percival
Here it's that the cap table is broken, but the, the goals of the investors don't line up with the realities of the business. Is that right? Exactly. Exactly. Is that what you're going to do?

Jeremy Giffon
Yeah, that's, um. I love special situations. I like all different types. You know, I think when tiny, when Tiny started, bootstrap, businesses were kind of a special situation, and now it's way more popular. And I view this a special situation.

Sam Parr
Is a really nice way to. I love a good special situation. I mean, that's better way. It's totally, totally special situation. Sounds a lot nicer than the distress asset.

Jeremy Giffon
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But it's, it's like, it's like this idea of, oh, there's all these people that want different things, and if you can just, like, arrange the bricks, so to speak, and that everyone gets what they want, you can, like, unlock this puzzle and like, with what I'm doing, everyone is better off. The VC's are happy, the founder is happy, everyone's better off. And I love those. I love those situations when you can do them.

And then it also, to go back to our initial thing, it's a very specific thing. So you're going to come to me because, you know, that's what I do. And I'm going to get stuff that other people don't get because I'm doing this very specific thing. And for my particular form of laziness, I love it when people just know what I offer and then they just come to me. It makes things so much easier than having to go to them and convince them to do something.

Sean Percival
Which I love because I like people like me. But it's also, it's also rare you remind me of myself. I think that's why I love you. Yeah, you're great because I see part of me and you, but it's the opposite of what most people come on the podcast and say. Most people come on the podcast and say, you got to work super hard.

Hard work is everything. And both me and you were like, we asked a different question, which is like, how can I be lazy and win the most? And we're like, yeah, I take pride in a certain form of laziness. I'm going to be super active in one area, but I absolutely reject a certain type of sweat. That's how I think about it.

Do you think about it the same way? Yeah, totally. Another archetype I have of this is you can divide the world into the Arnold Schwarzenegger kind of type, and then maybe Sam Altman type. And it's not to say that Sam Altman doesn't work hard and Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't smart. They are both examples of doing both, of course.

Jeremy Giffon
But, like, you know, Schwarzenegger, it's all literally, like in the biography. It's about, like, laying more bricks, like, lifting more days, more hours. It's just grinding. And when he becomes an actor, it's like more auditions, more movies, more practice, versus maybe someone who, like Altman, who, like, found this big opportunity and, like, was really early on, it was really clever about how he set it up and everything. And it's more about making these, like, moves and probably like you, Sean.

Like, I find there's a certain elegance in doing things with, like, the least amount of moves, and other people aren't like that. Like Sam, I bet you're probably more like people who work really hard. Grind it out, like, put in the hours. I know you love Shackleton. I think Shackleton's a lot like this.

Like, just, like, outwork everyone else. You're acting like you don't lie. You looked around like, I don't know. But you are like that. You're like, hard equals good because hard means I'm hard, whereas I'm, like, easy equals good because it means that I'm clever.

Sean Percival
Right. It's like you admire a different attribute. No? Yeah. I mean, there's value.

Sam Parr
I think it just sweating sometimes. Like, you know, I think that sometimes because a thing is hard, therefore it is good for you. I definitely believe that. But, I mean, I only work, like, 40 hours a week. I work a normal work week, but, yeah, I mean, I fall a little bit in the middle.

I do think that, like, just doing a hard thing for the sake of it being hard, there is, like, some type of, like, divine goodness within that. Yeah. And you gotta do both. Like, there's, you know, for the lazy person, there's periods of really hard work and vice versa. But.

But I think when people say they don't work hard and they still, like, achieve greatness, I think they're full of shit. Like, Sean, you say that you are lazy, dude. Yeah. You'll check. He'll text me a paragraph like a book at, like, 10:00 p.m.

Like you're still doing shit. You're just laying on the couch while your wife is watching tv and you're on your phone. You know, you're not at a desk. I view laziness as not that you don't do anything. It's that you don't do things you don't want to do.

Sean Percival
I just do all the things I want to do at full force because that's how I. Cause I like them. I want to do them. I just don't do a lot of things that I don't want to do. I'm very selective or, um, cheap about how much effort I'm willing to put into things that I don't actually want to do, and I'm willing to be lazy on those.

Right. It's kind of like the definition of work versus play. Work is, you know, work is. How do you define work? One way of defining work is it's the stuff that you don't want to do voluntarily, and play is the stuff that you do want to do voluntarily.

And I just opt into a lot more of play than I think most people do. And I'm. I'm I have a lower tolerance for work that I don't want to do, then I would say the. The average successful person. And the reason I like Jeremy coming on is because it's cool to see examples of a different play style because we've seen a bunch of the other play style, because it gets a lot of.

It sounds amazing. The David Goggins. The work harder, grind more, show up early, leave late, you know, like that. I get that. That's a cool playstyle.

It's just not what everybody wants to do, so. I like hearing other playstyles. Yeah, I mean, Sam, you're definitely right. Like, I'm sure I do a bunch of stuff that I'm not even conscious that I'm working a lot harder than other people because it just feels innate. But I think, like, another way to look at it is there's certainly a type of person who.

Jeremy Giffon
The way you soothe yourself so, like, some people will just soothe themselves by putting in way more hours, like, you know, working on that, like, diminishing, marginal return piece of, like, off. I just put in a few more hours on this, and other people, I think it's like, I just got to figure out the exact right thing to do here. Like, what is the exact right move? And you spend all your time thinking about that. You guys want to do a 50 miles race with me in August?

Sam Parr
Dude, I've been training for this thing, and I had to run 10 miles on Sunday, and I haven't ran that far in forever, and I'm just, like, depleted. So you want to come work hard? Come. Come join this race with me. Yeah, that's probably a good one.

Jeremy Giffon
Everyone who loves, like, the super endurance stuff is probably a grinder at heart, because it's just, like, about. If I do so much of this, it'll just be better than everyone else. It sucks. I just. Dude, when we were in Austin last week, we were hanging out with.

Sean Percival
Do you know Isaiah? Photo. Do you know who that is, Sam? No. No, I don't.

He's a youtuber who lives in Austin, and he's got probably, like, 10 million YouTube subscribers. And if you go look at, like, what are his popular videos? Or, like, what kind of was his break? He would do stuff like these challenge videos. These are kind of, like, grind videos counting to 100,000.

Like that. He's like, how I will lick this jawbreaker as many times it takes till the jawbreaker disappears. How many licks does it take? He'll hold a lighter on, and he'll be like, how long till this lighter just goes out. Like, how much lighter fluid is in this?

How long does that last? It's like 100 million views or whatever. People love this shit. And it's like, you know, to his credit, he found what people wanted and he gives it to him. At the same time, I'm like, oh, man, I'd shoot myself if I had to do that because that's not, that's not a path that's very appealing to me, but that same personality.

I'm like, oh, what do you do for fun outside of YouTubing? And he was like, oh, I love running. Same thing. I'm like, oh, God, what's the deal with you runners? He's like, oh, yeah, I really want to run.

I want to start a run club. I love running. And I'm like, if somebody told me, yo, you got to run today, they just said, sean, you got a bad day today. And I'm not trying to be a runner, but there's so many successful people that love running, and there's like a really high correlation there. On the other hand, I went and did a podcast with Mohnish Pabrai.

Jeremy, I assume you know him. Yes. Andrew told me. He's like, he was my first value investing man crush. And this episode is great.

Sam Parr
Mohnish.

Sean Percival
Is that the first time you've done that? When's the last time you did that? Years ago when I met wife. It sounds like you've got practice. Yeah, exactly.

And he was like, yeah, I take a nap every day. He's like, a good year is I make one or two investments, which is like literally clicking a button. It's not even like he runs a company. He's like, buying a public stock, and he's not even buying. He's not day trading.

He's not analyzing everything. He's like, one or two good investments in a year would be a fantastic year. And he reads and he chills. And I was like, man, the both guys, I would say, are winning. They're winning at their craft.

Like, to have 10 million YouTube subscribers is phenomenal. He's built a wonderful life for himself, and the other guy is a phenomenal value investor. But the lifestyle and the things that they value are so different. One guy maybe has the stomach losing $75 million of net worth in a day, and he's got to be cool with that. And the other guy's got a stomach waking up tomorrow and being like, how do I come up with the next crazy video?

And it was really remarkable to see that. So, you know, I think, Jeremy, you were talking about, like, you know, you sort of pick your prison in a way. Yeah. I'm assuming you've seen these different games that people play and decided which one is appealing to you. It's funny, guys like Monish are like, I call them the nap room guys.

Jeremy Giffon
Like, there's a whole set of value investors that have a, like a room. He showed me, he's like, this is my nap room. And he opened it up. I was like, this is amazing. Is that a thing, nap room guys?

Yeah. I've met at least like three or four different value investors like that who, like, they have a place to nap. I want to ask you about that same idea, but in a different way. So I'm going to give you my observation, and I wanted to know if you have any specific stories that line up with this. So my observation we talked about, does Andrew grind?

Sean Percival
Right? He comes on here, he acts super zen, super calm, super philosophical. He wants to be like Warren Buffett. He's playing bridge. Half the day he's reading, and then once or twice a year, he just blesses us with a beautiful investment.

Right? But, you know, one thing I have seen andrew do is he may not work super, super hard, but he works very fast. He is incredible at sniffing out opportunities. He is incredible at fast follow ups. He moves really quickly when he's excited about something.

That's the first thing I noticed. The second thing I noticed about Andrew is not only does he move really fast when he's excited about an opportunity, he'll just keep texting you about it, or he'll keep prodding until he finds out more information. He'll fly to meet you right away. But he also will be persistent. So, like, I think with some of the businesses, it's like, yeah, I used to, I love that business.

So I emailed him every month for like five years. And then finally one month, they were like, yeah, I am willing to sell the business. And I think that was the case for maybe letterbox or dribble, where he was just emailing the founder continuously. Aeropress, same thing. He was just emailing the guy like, hey, yeah, have you thought about selling this month?

Hey, have you thought about selling this month? Some version of that question hanging around the hoop. In fact, when we sold the milk road, same thing happened. We tried to sell the business. We walked away from these guys at the last minute.

And if I'm them, I'm like, oh, hate the, you know, hate those guys. Screw them. Well, let's, let's kill those guys. And instead they were super professional about it. They were like, okay, no problem.

Like sounds like you have, you want to go different direction. And they hung around the hoop. A month later he says, hey, I didn't see any announcement. Like no deal went through. Um, and we were like no, you know, we decided not to do it for this and this reason.

Hes like well were still interested. And I was like wow that was so different than how I would have done that. So we made it a practice for us whenever were buying businesses. Its like a dont get personally offended when it happens. And we schedule the automated reminder a month or three months later lets just follow back up and just make sure that we check in and say, hey, is there still an opportunity here?

We still like the business, we liked it then, we like it more now. If theres still an opportunity to let us know that idea of hanging around the hoop. Are there any other stories either on Andrew's moving fast and or being persistent and just following up over and over again that you remember? Yeah, I mean, on the fast thing, it's annoying, but it's true. The most successful people in the world respond instantly.

Jeremy Giffon
I cannot believe. It's kind of infuriating how true it is. But when you email the billionaire CEO, it's like a 32nd response. And when you email his vice president, it's, you know, it can be a week or something. That is just so true.

And I really try and force myself to respond fast. I wrote this little script for Gmail that it archives my email every 24 hours. So I have to respond or it just disappears. And I feel like it's a really good nudge of just send the simpler text messages response. Andrew is super, super high paced, really energetic.

The thing that comes to mind is when you're at, you know, lunch or whatever with him, if he thinks of someone you should meet, he will pull out his phone and like send the intro email before you've even like finished the sentence. And it's good and bad. Like, sometimes you're like, wait, like, I don't want to meet that person or whatever. But. But it's also just this, like, if you think about it in terms of iterations, it's so many more iterations of just making something happen.

And also like movement, especially when you're an operator, movement creates information. Like, you learn more by doing more things. And so it's a really powerful combo. And then, yeah, in terms of following up, um, I think just being a little. Andrew used to call it like being Dennis the menace, like, just after just being a little bit more willing to just kind of like, poke your head in even when it might be a little like, um, you know, gauche or whatever, can be really, can really be really powerful.

It's kind of that just like, hey, like, you still interested in selling you still interested in selling you still interest in selling that Dennis the menace bit? That's a good one. That's a good one. And he's willing to be the menace more than most people. Like, he is willing to.

He does menace. Like, people do say, you're menacing me, stop it. But it also, like, really pays off because just like, oh, you know, it's, and if you think about it, it's like, okay, fine, like, who's that guy who emails me every three months? Like, maybe you had a bad day or you're done with the business or whatever, and you're like, all right, I guess I'll, like, see what that guy has to say, you know? You know?

And, yeah, it's incredibly powerful and more people should do it and just generally be less afraid of, like, I learned this doing a lot of cold email for sales. You know, if you send out a thousand cold emails, you're gonna get one or two responses that are just, someone's going ballistic. Like, if you email me again, I'll sue you or whatever, you know? But the other 998, it's like either positive or no response or neutral, and it's just like all upside, basically. All right, so I want to shift gears to what I call the spicy hot take section, the semi controversial opinion section.

Sean Percival
If this was, if we were in a club right now, this is that part where the DJ starts, like, the beats about to drop, and we all know things are about to get a little crazy, a little fun. That's what's about to happen in this podcast. Okay, so here's the first prompt. I'm just gonna prompt you, and then I want you to kind of give us your rant on it. First prompt is about Mister Beast, which is that MrBeast shouldn't be selling chocolate bars.

What should MrBeast be doing instead of selling chocolate bars? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a testament to how valuable audiences are that all the most valuable businesses that have been created are like the worst businesses. Chocolate bars, supplements, merch, that kind of stuff. These are really bad businesses. And so I always think, okay, what happens if feastivals is the most successful, like, creator brand?

Jeremy Giffon
What happens when that is a really good business, a bank or a great software tool or something like that. Explain why is chocolate bars or prime from Logan Paul. Why are those bad businesses? Because somebody might say, oh, they're doing hundreds of millions of revenue or they're going to sell for a billion dollars. But you're saying bad business as a characteristic, the underlying fundamentals of that category.

Sean Percival
So explain that. Yeah, the reason, like why you can still be, to be clear, you can still be very successful selling chocolate bars. Like Hue kitchen is one of my favorite companies and Jason Karp is like chocolate. And I know he's very successful at that, but it's kind of that thing of like is it a restaurant or is it a SaaS company? Like there's levels of difficulty basically.

Jeremy Giffon
And so there's just businesses. Like if you contrast extremes, so a chocolate bar, low margin, not a repeat customer, not super necessary product or anything like that, versus say something really low on the stack like home insurance or property insurance or something, or visa or mastercard or something that you need every day. There's just better qualities of businesses. And then the other way you could think about it is what would be the enduring enterprise value of the business without the person. So feast of olds is going to have a way harder time without MrBeast then if he built a bank, if the bank had hundreds of thousands of customers or whatever, ostensibly he could go away from that and it might make the business grow slower, whatever, but it's still like a really great business.

And so I actually view it as very bullish for the creators. It's very bullish for the space. It's kind of like you're making it work on hard mode, and I wonder what it looks like when it's kind of on easy mode. All right, next one. Net worth is a silly metric.

Sean Percival
So why is net worth silly? And what's a better metric? Instead, you've told me something about personal cash flow or something like that is a better metric. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so my, like my other line on this is billionaires a state of mind because the amount of billionaires, first of all, it's like, it's so bullshit.

Jeremy Giffon
Because it's always, unless it's either like you have this in cash or it's your shares in a public company, it's always a complete matter of taste. You know, it's like, well, my company would be worth a billion if it were to sell.

And even in public companies, it's not even real because most of the time, if you own a ton of the public company, if you were to dump it all, it would massively drop the price. And so I really think it's kind of this thing. It's more like this memetic label. Once you get labeled a billionaire, it just sticks, and people just refer to it. I see this a lot also.

People use it as a way to describe someone who just kind of is in a certain class. I actually think it's more of a class market than anything. He lives a certain lifestyle. He hangs out with a certain people. He's like a billionaire.

It really has nothing to do with whether or not you actually have a billion dollars or you own something worth a billion dollars. And the other is, yeah, like, cash. Like, liquidity is so crazy. The amount of people. Billionaires, when you're like, okay, could you wire me 100 grand tomorrow?

The answer is no. It's like, I've been shocked by this over and over and over. Explain that more. What do you mean? So people who you have read about.

Sean Percival
I'm not saying no because they don't want to wire you $100,000? Yeah, it's. It's definitely. It's definitely. Can you wire me 100?

No, not. No, but no, like, people. People don't keep a lot of cash, and it really is, like, one way to look at this is in, like, a party seed round or whatever. I'm always shocked by, like, who doesn't wire the money? Or you have to chase them down or whatever, and.

Jeremy Giffon
Or they have to wire it in tranches or anything like that. Like, and I think it's just that cash flow is so far from net worth. Um, and then. And so, like. And you had, like, you had.

Sam Parr
Sorry, go ahead, Sean. What, Sam? We. We have a funny experience with this. We were at a lunch with somebody, and you were asking them.

Sean Percival
You're like, what level of money made a difference? Like, what's the next level of unlock? And, yeah, he said 25. This much like, you know, you said a number that was like a net worth number. And he's like, yeah, that was a good number.

Um, you know, when I was doing that every year, then blah, blah, you were like, wait, annual link. You were like, annual cash flow? Was that because I was kind of saying the whole net worth? And he. And he was like, yeah, that's what I was doing in annual cash flow.

And it was very clear that if you had that much in annual cash flow, you essentially had infinite money. Yeah, well, it was like, we were like, I think 25 is, like, a good number. And he goes, yeah, I agree. Having that come in every year is awesome. And I was like, oh, yeah, I.

Literally, like, in the booth of the restaurant, just down to the bottom. I was under the table and I was just like, oh, what's down here? I mean, you did. I read that you tried to create some kind of like equivalent, like a chart of cash flow to net worth. Yeah, yeah, I thought a lot about this.

Jeremy Giffon
So part of that is talking about one weird thing about tiny is I probably talked to three or 4000 bootstrapped entrepreneurs and the vibes that they give off, like, I don't know, I've met a handful of billion dollar net worth founders and the vibes between them and someone who makes $10 million a year from their chrome plugin or whatever, very different. And there's something about like, just how free they feel when they have that cash flow coming in. Because there's two things. One is like, maybe the net worth never actually translates into cash. A very funny thing is, like, all the, all the Silicon Valley guys are really, when like, behind closed doors, are really envious of the New York hedge fund guys because they're so liquid.

Like, they might not actually be as rich per se, but they're so they make so much cash that it's like, it may as well be a whole different thing. Um, how much do the hedge fund. Guys make in New York? Yeah, this is another hot take, which is I always, when I started getting interested in making money, it was like the most common thing you hear is you cannot get rich on a salary. Like, you gotta own equity, you gotta own a business in New York.

There are lots of guys, lots of guys making 510 million. There's people making 100 million. I've met one guy at a big hedgehog as what? Like a, like a portfolio manager? Like a bonus?

Yeah, there's, there's, there's at least one guy out there who like, makes a billion dollars in annual compensation. Um, but what's normal? Like, let's say you're, you're, you're hanging out with your New York finance friends. It varies. It varies a lot.

Uh, but in a good year, like, an analyst at a big hedge fund will make three to $5 million. Um, and in a really good year, it can be a lot more than that. Cause usually it's a, it's a percentage. And, um, you know, like being, being a senior person at a big fund or whatever, you make a lot of money and you kind of take no risk in some very real sense. And so I think that was certainly surprising to me.

And, yeah, just to come back to the cash flow thing. Certainly. Andrew was always such a cashflow person, and really, in Canada at the time, there was just no funding, so you just had to live or die off cash flow. And I think it's more instructive to think about money in terms of cash flow, because the other thing is when you have a net worth, like, say, you sell your business and you just have a bunch of cash, even if, like, psychologically, Sam, I know you're big on the, like, money psychology stuff. The idea that you're living off a fixed or finite amount just really changes how you view things.

Even if it's a ton of money versus this idea of, like, I make, you know, whatever, $100,000 a month or whatever. Just the idea that it just comes in it, like, well, dude, me and. Sean have this good friend who sold the business, and he walked away with $60 million. And I go, that feels awesome. He goes, it feels horrible, man.

I go, why? He goes, I'm a brown immigrant. I need cash flow. If I don't have cash flow, I feel broke. I need money coming in every month.

Sam Parr
I can't spend this. And I was, like, shocked by that. I think we should wrap it up. Jeremy, where should people find you if they want to get more of you, follow you, become big fans of you. Where should they go?

Jeremy Giffon
Twitter. Jeremy Giffon. My DM's are open. Yeah, that's the best place. Awesome.

Sean Percival
Thanks for doing it, man. Really fun hanging. Thank you. Out, guys. That's the pod.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to. I'm putting my all in it. Like, days off road, less travel, never looking back.