Phil Heath (professional bodybuilder)

Dax Shepard
Welcome, welcome. Welcome to armchair expert. Experts on expert. I'm Dan shepherd, and I'm joined by Monica Padman. Hi.

Rare one today, body building bodybuilding boy Kumail and Rob McElhenney have got to be all ears for this episode. I hope so. If they don't listen to this episode, our friendship's over. Oh, no. Okay.

Should I warn them? I feel like I should side text them. You might need to. Cause it won't be the real test. I need it to be.

If I text, maybe it won't. Yeah. Phil Heath. I would imagine a lot of armchairs have never heard that. Which is funny cause he's very much a Jordan in his given sport, which is bodybuilding.

Phil Heath is a professional bodybuilder who has won the Mister Olympia seven times, which is crazy. There's two eights and then there's him. Yeah, pretty cool. The 8th, of course, I talk about endlessly on here. He comes up so much.

We're gonna have to interview him as well. I would love to. Ronnie Coleman. Ronnie Coleman. It was actually fun to hear Phil have so many thoughts about Ronnie Coleman.

But at any rate, Phil Heath has a new documentary out now called Breaking Olympia, which is the Phil Heath story. Fascinating tale. You'll hear a bunch of it here today and enjoy the pictures. Just really go through those pictures and try to comprehend how tiny your boy. Looks next to Phil Heath and me.

You're in danger. But he is very nice. Yeah, I didn't feel in danger. No, he was a sweetheart, and he was very nice to my children. Please enjoy Phil Heath.

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Monica Padman
He's an object expert.

Dax Shepard
I'm from Michigan, so. Oh, okay. We just moved there. Oh, no way. Wait, what?

Phil Heath
We just moved to Michigan, so. No, originally from Seattle. My wife originally from the Bay Area, so we live in Royal Oak. No way. Yeah.

Dax Shepard
Oh, my God. Yeah. That's about the coolest place you can live in. That's where everybody keeps telling us, so we're happy. We're, like, right there near Birmingham.

Have you tried Coney dogs yet? I haven't tried that yet. You haven't? Oh, you got a whole. Well, we keep driving by it every 20ft, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are there lines and stuff always? No. There's so many, Monica. Well, you were there.

They outnumbered McDonald's by like ten to one. Yeah. And there's religions. You're either a national person or you're a Lafayette person. Got it.

You're a Kirby. So you have to think your team is, like, everything. Yeah. You can't just eat a hot dog. You gotta declare who you are.

I like to think of myself as a Coney dog expert. No, that's dope, man. Here's your mic. Is there anything else you would like? No, this is great.

You don't want coffee? My wife just told me I'm too stinged out already. She's like, yeah, no, more. I was like, but also, that's kind of her role. It's kind of astounding to watch you guys work.

You're a team. Yes. And half of her day is preparing your insane diet regimen. Yeah. Which makes sense.

You guys have a family business. And part of it is like, how many calories a day? To be quite honest, I stopped counting. I just go by the meal because I think when you start having this number, like, oh, I eat 6000 calories a day, that becomes very daunting, I think. Yeah, for sure.

Phil Heath
When you just say, this is the meal, this many grams of carbs, this many grams of protein is just a lot easier. You say in the doc that you were eating every 2 hours. Yeah, every two, two and a half hours I was eating. So depending on what time I woke up and what time I went to bed, it could be up to eight times. And how much at a time the.

Most between protein and carbs? A pound and a half. Your plate would be a pound and a half, a pound and a half between those two. So how many grams of protein would I like? 75 grams per meal.

Dax Shepard
Times seven? Eight. If not eight. Oh, my goodness. Right.

So obviously your fiance. Are you married now? We're married now. So in the dock when it was filmed, we were engaged and had been. For quite a while, right?

Phil Heath
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. For how long? We were engaged over six years. I know that for sure. So it was too long.

Dax Shepard
Do you think the doc at all shamed you into, like, all right, I gotta fucking. No, not at all. It was having an ex wife. That's what made it quite difficult. So anyone that has been married before that has that quote unquote baggage, you kind of are like, let's just tread lightly on this.

Phil Heath
I'm being fair to my ex. I don't need to bash her or anything like that because I expect her not to do that to me. But, you know, you just want to have things to be cool. And eventually we realized, like, just go get married. You know, after COVID, you're like, I'm not wasting any more time.

Dax Shepard
Well, there is some merit to not getting married. Now, I say that as someone who's been married for a while, but we were in a interviewing Goldie Hawn recently, and, you know, her and Kurt Russell, they never got married. Oh, they didn't? No, they're not married. They're boyfriend girlfriend.

They've been together at the time we interviewed was maybe 30 years at that point. And I even said to her, do you think if you had been married, you would have gotten divorced at some points? And she's like, yes. So in some weird way, there is a little merit to not getting married. Cause then you can just have a really shitty patch and you don't have to, like, get divorced over it.

Monica Padman
Doesn't feel so existential. Like, well, now I gotta make this big, huge life decision. Like a divorce? Yeah. Cause you're married, and when you're having shitty times, all couples do, you start going like, and now this is for the rest of my life.

Phil Heath
So you add this extra layer. Yes. It really is unnecessary. And you're more married to the state than to each other. Well, I'll tell you a funny one really quick.

Dax Shepard
So when my wife and I got married, I, at the time, had more money than her in the bank. And I'm nuts about money. Like, I grew up broke, and it's a thing. I don't have a healthy relationship with it. She goes, would you want a prenup?

In my mind, I'm like, yes, I want a fucking prenup so bad. But then I go, no, I don't want a prenup. Got married, then jokes on her. Cause she got in frozen, and all of a sudden she's got way more money.

So you just don't know. It is interesting, though. I think it scares people. Now, I talked to some younger adults. It's not even on their radar.

Phil Heath
They don't even care. I mean, they're trying to screw everybody. Like these dating apps and stuff. I get that part because I can only imagine if I was living that life. There's no such thing as delayed gratification for someone under 30 years old right now.

Dax Shepard
No. For us that are over 30, delayed gratification is worth it. Ironically, yes, in every single sector of your life. Yet there's this one. You go like, no, this should be super easy and immediate, and then work.

Phil Heath
Out if it would be easy. Everybody be a champion. But then you would have nothing to look forward to. And within bodybuilding, you may feel great after that first workout, even if you got your ass kicked. But I don't look as strong as Phil Heath or, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

When is that going to happen? And I think that's why some people revert it back to those negative patterns that have purchased the January 1 membership. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The resolutions are starting to evaporate.

Then it really comes down to a deeper conviction, recognizing, like, okay, this pattern does not serve me. I need to really submit and say, you know what? Enough is enough. Whether it be alcohol, whether it be sex, drugs, gambling, whatever it is, just being angry. This does not serve this person who I claim and declare I'm going to be.

Dax Shepard
Yeah, that's the rough part. It's hard. Like in aa, we say, I got sick of people judging me for my actions and not my intentions. Yeah, you can say you're whoever you are, but we kind of have the results in front of us. Yeah, yeah.

You didn't show up for work three days in a row, and you've been blacked out for a while. Let's go back. Cause we have some similarities, you and I. Single mom. How old were your parents when?

Phil Heath
So my parents divorced around three. Same. Wow. So we were on our own for a little bit. You're brothers and sisters?

No, I was raised as an only child. I still remember I was in an apartment something happened, obviously, there. There was a nasty argument. And I remember being with my mom in a guest bedroom. She was just crying.

She was just rocking me to sleep, just singing. I think she's singing to herself more than she's singing to me. And I never saw that place again after that day. Wow. So once morning came, I guess we just left.

Monica Padman
Yeah. So at least it's alluded to in the doc. And both of our dads have died prematurely. And around the same time, 14 for you. Yeah.

Phil Heath
It'll be ten years on the 29th. But alcoholism's in the mix. Yep. By the way, your dad's way better looking than my dad. But my dad had fucking rhythm.

Dax Shepard
He made moves like he drove a corvette. He dressed right. Girls liked him. And your dad was a fucking fox. Thanks.

Right? Yeah. Our dads are probably kicking it right now, dude. They're like, oh, yeah, you got it going on. I got it going on.

Phil Heath
Like, hey, I do. I need to say, your father is much better looking. Your father is fucking ten. It's so funny, because when you're dating and I share pictures of my father with my now wife, she was like, wow, he's really handsome. And then her mom got quiet.

Her parents are still together. My father in law's like, yeah, we. Get it, we get it. Yeah. But he looked like a movie star, man.

Yeah. Like, he's always dapper. He just had style. And he would be the one that would always make sure, like, if I'm dressed up for an event, pocket Square's got to be on point. Cufflinks, everything.

He'd be the one rocking lucchesis, snakeskin boots. Like, he had it all, man. He had it going on. What brought them to Seattle? So, my mom grew up in a little town called Zachary, Louisiana.

My dad was from Dallas, Fort Worth area, so probably just a more liberal. Town, but no military. Cause. Some people end up in there. Cause of the Navy, maybe.

Yeah, usually. But I just believe that everybody just wanted a different start. Deep south, there was obviously racism. I mean, all kind of shit was going on. My stepfather was from a place called Huntsville, Alabama.

He's going on 91. So that means he was born in 1933. Come on. The things that he probably had to. See in Alabama, he watched all Jim Crow come up, so they all were.

Like, let's go up north. Let's go further west. Let's just get the hell out of here. And, in fact, when we were filming breaking Olympia, you have to go through all your old effects. So I was able to find old pictures of my biological parents.

To think that they were partying in the seventies, you'd think, oh, they're just with a bunch of black folks. It's like, no, no, no. It was like all races in Seattle, so I think it was more safe. Everybody just felt comfortable. I think that's probably why they moved there.

Dax Shepard
And what'd they do for a living there? So my mom worked in cargo services for a company called Sealand at the time that later changed names into horizon lines, CSX lines. They got acquired by Matson. She started off as a clerk, worked all the way up to upper level management, let's be honest, minority woman telling longshoremen at the port what to do. Wow.

Phil Heath
So she would work late night on Wednesdays and Fridays, because those were the days that those ships had to leave. So she would work at the port of Tacoma, Washington. So those containers, she would have to make sure that whatever's coming in proper manifest, whatever's going out, she would wait until the last container got on that barge. So she carried herself with a lot of pride and respect and accountability, because those are things that have to get to where they're supposed to be. And being an entrepreneur, you know, I had a supplement company along with my wife.

You learn when you get product and they're supposed to go to Europe or Asia, who is doing those things? You learn about real deadlines. Not like, I think I gotta get this project done, this, like, in the next few weeks. And it doesn't matter about your feelings either. So her having a deadline and having to effectively communicate with people that may not like the way she looks, and let's be honest, there's plenty of males that don't like taking directions from a female.

Dax Shepard
Plenty's being generous. Yeah, exactly. Plenty. 99%. It's not easy.

Phil Heath
I see it all the time. Well, you've got misogyny, but then you also just have. We've all been raised by moms. Yeah, don't tell me what to do. Like, triggers some weird.

Dax Shepard
Your mother's telling you what to do? I just have to tell you because my mom's inside visiting right now. So my mom started when she left my dad, night shift janitor at General Motors, and then worked her way up into the fleet, then became a manager of all the fleet. Same exact shit. Deal with all the dudes.

Phil Heath
We're like, living in parallel universe. Got the multiverse going on, like, what's. Going on and the amount of shit she had to take and also be a boss and how to play the fucking game. There you go, oh, man, you gotta. Do your job perfect, and then you gotta deal with every dude hitting on you.

Dax Shepard
That's just part of every other thing you're dealing with. What were her nights like when she got home? Was she just quiet? Well, she turned on the tv, or was it like a drink? Well, this is what I was gonna ask you about.

So I had a lot of stepdads, so it's usually coming home or the stepdad was supposed to pick her up. We only have one car, but he's blocked out. He's abusive, so we got an abusive dude in the house. We got a baby. There's three of us.

I'm writing about it right now. I don't know how that woman kept moving forward. Probably cause of you guys. What was your stepdad's scenario like? My stepdad worked at a NBC affiliate, so he worked at King five in Seattle, Washington.

Phil Heath
He was a tv engineer. That was back in the day, obviously, when you had, like, 30 people in a news station. But he worked in the control room. He worked behind the cameras. He did all that stuff.

Dax Shepard
And how old were you when he came on the scene? I was three and a half. Okay. So really quick after, almost, like, right away. In fact, my mom and my stepdad met at a going away party for a mutual friend.

Phil Heath
And my cousin was supposed to look after me and got called in for work. And so she told my now stepdad, like, hey, I can't come. He was like, ah, bring him. We'll just put him in the bedroom. You know what I mean?

He's like, I got tv and stuff. He was like, he'll be fine. And then I guess they just hit it off. Next thing you know, I remember seeing a piece of luggage and, like, a bunch of safeway bags, like, brown paper bags. And those were my clothes.

We didn't have much. And I'm like, I guess this is where we're living now. Not right away, but I'm only three, so I can only remember snippets. I think she chose the best responsible adult that she could hang with, party with. I mean, he was much older than her, though.

Dax Shepard
How much older? A lot. 17 as an adult. Now I'm like, damn, mom, what the fuck is going on? Well, but again, it sounds like she had your best interest very much in mind.

Monica Padman
Maybe she wanted to be taken care of in a way. Her being a career woman. She admired a man who had his stuff together. You know, they could create more abundance financially, which they both did. He respected my mom.

Phil Heath
I saw them argue, but never physical. They did both drink quite a bit. So mom did, too. Every night, drinking in Manhattan on rocks, watching days of our lives, you know, on VHS. Yeah.

Dax Shepard
Set her timer to record it during the day. Oh, my God. Then there's a time change. You're like, fuck. I didn't get my days in my.

Phil Heath
Mind, all that stuff, man. So I learned pretty quick alcohol was always in the house. For me, it was more. That's what adults do. That's not what kids do.

And so later on, when I would have friends over, they'd be like, dude, your parents keep beer in the fridge in the garage. Let's go snag one. And I'm like, I'm not getting to my ass beat for you. What are you talking about? I think because it was that accessible.

Jack Daniels was in the linen closet next to the car keys. It was ever present. Yeah. So everything was cool. Did you delineate some difference between dad and mom and stepdad's drinking when you would go to your dad's on the weekend?

Dax Shepard
By comparison, was dad's drinking more out of control than mom's? It's hard to say because he didn't do it really in front of me. Oh, that's nice. He did smoke cigarettes, and that was always fucking annoying in the car, too, right? Yeah, like, after dinner mint.

Phil Heath
He would say, you know, like, after dinner mint, son. And I'm like, okay, so that means he's going out. He didn't really do it in the car much because he probably did a couple times. My mom was, like, flipping out on him. I give my mom and my stepdad credit because they both smoked cigarettes.

And I don't recall them ever needing to go do a patch or anything. They just stopped. No kidding. So they were responsible to a degree. I mean, that was back in the day.

Dax Shepard
The bar was low. Come on. Like, you could drive after drinking a pitcher or two of beer. We used to go to a fish joint called skippers in Seattle. So it'd be like long John Silver's.

High quality seafood. High quality seafood, deep fried. And they would just continually bring over a pitcher of beer. And I always noticed that my parents would just laugh louder and louder as a kid. You're just happy.

Phil Heath
Cause you're like, okay, everything's cool, they're. Happy, it's a good time. I'm getting home, and my ass is asleep. The minute I get in the backseat of the car, I'm out. I'm the first person on the plane before they even decide to offer drinks.

I'm out. Right? Yeah. That's weirdly telling about your childhood. That does mean you felt safe.

Yeah, I felt safe. They didn't give me a reason not to. There was no car. There was none of that. Yeah, none of that.

There was no duis. There's none of that. No real wreckage. No. If anything, it was just them enjoying each other's company, maybe being a little too loud.

But I lived in a house where they debate, debate, debate on everything. So you're gonna get loud. Yeah. Yeah, right? You're just gonna get loud.

So my stepdad's friends would come over and, you know, he watched the fights back in the day. You watched Mike Tyson fight, watching pay per view. Everything was loud. So being in a silent house was like, what's that? Well, when I'm watching the doc, which, by the way, I loved breaking Olympia, just to remind everyone, when I watched it with my ten year old, who you just met.

Oh, man. And she fucking loved it. Oh, she did. That's what she wanted, to meet you. She don't want to meet anyone.

Wow. Everyone's in here. She's only asked to meet a few people, and she wanted to meet you. She loved it. I loved it.

Dax Shepard
But I am trying to. I'm trying to figure out how this is an answer to something in childhood, this pursuit. My first instinct would be. Cause I have this big chip on my shoulder, which is, again, violent stepdads. I feel in danger a lot.

I want to grow up and get better big and get tough, and I want to be able to defend myself. I'm scared a lot. So I'm hearing about your school, and I'm like, well, there's a little bit of a clue. Similar thing. Like, just a very violent town and people fighting nonstop.

Where you went to school at rainier. Rainier beach was the high school that some people that were in more affluent communities would be like. You went there? Oh, right. Little context.

Phil Heath
We were playing basketball against Seattle prep. So fancy, right? We play them at home. They're a private school, but they're now asking the Seattle public school system to fund buses for all their fans to come to watch us play. And their superintendent's like, why should we supply you buses when you guys could just drive there?

They said, oh, because after we beat them, we don't want them vandalizing our nice vehicles. Oh, my God. Could you imagine them saying this in the freaking Seattle times? Oh, my God. So my coach, Mike Bethia, shout out to Mike Bethia.

He's still there. This is the team he went to state with. Oh, yeah. Coach Bethia also works at Boeing. I still remember it, man.

We're getting ready for practice. He comes in with the newspaper. Coach Bethia, God bless him, man. But he was one of those guys at that time, we called him Bobby Mike. As in Bobby Knight.

Dax Shepard
Yeah. Yeah, he let it rip. Oh, yeah. So you don't know what you're gonna get. Well, he had a hard day.

Mercurial, right? Like, oh, there's layoffs at Boeing. Oh, man, we're gonna run today. I'm in the real world. Yeah.

Phil Heath
So he's got this newspaper. Heath read this shit. And I'm reading it, I'm like, what the fuck? They really said this? Well, I would be offended and be like, you're probably right too, but.

So here's the thing about that. We weren't like that. You know what I mean? Like, you would think that we'd fuck our own shit up, but no, it just would not happen. So I remember looking at everybody on the team, I'm like, what do y'all want to do about it?

I'm gonna kick the shit out of these guys now. I still remember. We beat em by 33 points. Wow. So fun.

Oh, we own. And it was a known thing in the community, like, don't do nothing. Just WHOOP their ass and just wave at em, saying, get the fuck outta here. That was so gratifying. But at the same time, that was the high school I went to.

People looked down upon us. They didn't expect us to become anything. Well, you had a shooting and a dance. Yep. First high school dance, friends brother got shot in the face six times about twelve yards away from me.

Obviously, that's catastrophic. You're not supposed to see these type of things in real life. Innocence gone, right. It's not like you can file it into. Well, that'll never happen again.

No, it's reality. Yeah. Cops in that moment were allowing those two kids to fight, thinking, disagreement. Knuckle up. We're good.

Cause that's what everybody says online. Like, why can't they just knuckle up and just be done with it? Catch a fade and let him move on? No, the kid came back, got into it again. The guy got the best of him, and now it's the embarrassment.

Cause everybody's laughing. Yeah, there's nothing more dangerous. That embarrassment obviously did a number on him, and he decided to take matters into his own hands. And it was scary as hell. But the problem was during that, you freeze and then you turn and run.

And then you realize you're banging on someone's car as they're driving off. I mean, why was I thinking that they would stop and say, come on in? They're like, no, we're getting the hell out of this parking lot. We're going to skippers, we're going to get some deep fried fish. No shit.

And then you're trying to run your ass off. And then to go to a person that's working off duty security at a local safeway, and they're like, what the fuck you want me to do? What? The reality of what's over. Wait a minute.

So your security, you're not going to do anything? Like, what do you want me to do? It's over. Oh, my God. You would think, okay, someone's gonna rat this guy out.

The justice system's gonna figure this out. Oh, no. The streets figure that out within a week. So that dude got shot. Oh, of course.

It's just those things that you learn very quick. Life is not what you think it is, dude. Okay, now you and I have this in common, too. So we see Conan the barbarian. It's life altering for me.

Dax Shepard
I don't know. That whole thing exists. Right? I see him pushing that wooden wheel around. Oh, did you have fear at that time?

Did that look appealing to you in a way that I could be safe if I look like that? Not growing up. Growing up, it was more just fascinating over the fact that this guy looked like a freaking superhero. My thing was more focused on basketball. You know what I really loved growing up was those action films with martial arts.

Phil Heath
Oh, sure. Blood sport and above the law, dude. You know, Van Damme competed as a bodybuilder at one point. That doesn't surprise me. You know, Sean Connery did, too.

Dax Shepard
He won Mister Universe in the season. He wore something like that. Mister Europe or something. Van Damme was like, mister Belgium, or something like that. Mister Belvedere.

Mister Belgium. You know, my favorite Jean Claude Van Damme film, other than Bloodsport and kickboxer you got, those two was no retreat, no surrender. Have you seen that? Of course. Yeah, he was the villain.

Phil Heath
The first scene of him walking into the dojo and just demoralizing that sensei, he just beat the brakes off of this guy. And I was like, this dude is for real. The slick back hair. Uh huh. I looked at that and was like, I gotta take karate lessons.

Cause if you gotta go against someone like that one day, you're fucked. And back then, karate Kid was a. Big film with all these fantasies, we would learn something, and then we would be invincible. Growing up in Seattle, Washington, especially during the eighties, you had to know martial arts. You wanted to learn it.

Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of Bruce Lee influence. Cause he went to University of Washington, all that I remember my mom and I once we split from my father moving with my stepdad, being a new kid on the block. I mean, you're gonna get tested. So I got my ass whooped, like the first week, and my stepdad was like, uh uh, that's not happening back in the day.

Phil Heath
You know, you come home with a bloody nose or something, your dad, let alone your guardian, they're not gonna tolerate this. Cause they know that this has to end. Yeah, it'll keep happening. It's gonna keep happening. And they teach you.

So he grabbed me, he walked me down two blocks and knocked on this guy's door. And that became my new sensei that afternoon. And I'm glad that that happened because it taught me respect. Bowing before you enter the dojo, taking your shoes off, knowing how to be still and know how to meditate, and just being able to exercise this controlled aggression through whether it be katas, which are forms and sparring, and knowing that your intention through sparring isn't always to obviously kill the opponent that you're practicing with. And you knew that whoever wasn't in your class, they would always say, don't practice this at home with your friends.

So they taught you respect. And that's how I grew up. So then later on with basketball, I was taught that controlled aggression. But then I had a couple coaches, like coach Mike Bethia, and another coach, Jason Baskett, who were like, that's cool and everything, but we need this aggression to come out on the basketball court. No meditating because you're too short.

You're athletic, but you're timid as fuck. We need that guy to come out. We need to see some emotion. And being an only child and pretty reserved and quiet, I really wanna know. Your demeanor in high school.

I want everybody to get along. I'm the peacemaker. Yeah. You're not trying to out alpha dudes or. I was the guy that lacked confidence.

I was the guy that didn't ask out the girl who I really wanted to ask out. I might have been friends with her friend. Uh huh. And then just like, eh, kind of like settling. It seems like you're a pretty sweet kid.

Yeah, I'd say so. I had a couple friends growing up that had a lot more confidence and more swagger. And I just kind of cowered away and was like, all right, well, that's the reason why they like him, because he's more confident. Even when I got into my pro career in bodybuilding, I remember already having a cover of Flex magazine. I already had the spotlight on me being a 2005 Mister USA, going for his pro debut in Denver.

Like, I'm a fan of half these guys that I read about in the magazine, but not looking in the mirror, realizing I'm about to beat these guys today. So I was just being almost too nice. And then my coach at the time, Hani Rambod, and the senior editor of Flex magazine, Peter McGuff, they both saw me and they said, what the fuck are you doing, dude? You gotta turn this on. You're gonna lose because of your lack of confidence.

So I remember the lack of confidence I once had playing basketball that reentered in bodybuilding initially. And then once I was able to flip that switch of saying, no, it's time to rock and roll, Phil. You're good enough to win. And then I'm like, I am. And then I look in the mirror.

I am. And then I accepted it, and then I ran with it. Right? So you go to state on this basketball team in high school. You guys win State.

Yep. You then go to Denver for basketball, play d one. You're on a scholarship, and you get there and you're a freshman, so you're not playing a ton. And then sophomore year, you're hoping to make some real gains and some strides. You kind of hit a wall.

Dax Shepard
Or you get to a point where you're like, I'm just not really becoming this thing I've been fantasizing about. Could we say this is depression number one? This is depression number one for sure. Because I had turned down other scholarships just to go to this school. Cause I was the guy that signed early senior year in high school.

Phil Heath
So before my first high school game, I already had a scholarship. And I think that was more of my parents doing than anything. Also maybe a lack of confidence. You wanna take the burden of the hand, you're not willing to risk it. But again, this is my parents.

They're like, this is what you do. Take it. They really like you. They call us all the time, and I don't think they knew the whole. Recruiting process well, no one has any experience with this.

Dax Shepard
And who are you gonna call to find out? Now they do. But back in 1997, they didn't. They treat every kid like they're Allen Iverson, and they get everyone believing they're Allen Iverson until you get on campus. And then the coach is kind of like, let's change this on this kid.

Phil Heath
And then they realize, where are the kids gonna fall in place? And sophomore year, I had a really good preseason. Actually scored high. I remember hedging a screen, and I remember getting injured. But I wouldn't say that that was the reason for me not playing anymore.

But it was one of those situations where you definitely didn't help your cause. Because any college athlete understands this. The minute you get hurt, there's another guy in line. Yeah, right. The coach has already got your replacement.

They gotta put in somebody, and now you gotta rehab. And while you're rehabbing, that person's getting more game reps than you are. The minute you get in in the game, you're gonna fuck it up because you don't have the same game reps. No matter how many times you've practiced. You don't have the muscle memory.

You don't have it, like, the speed of the game. You gotta get in the flow, and if you're only playing two, three minutes at a time, it doesn't work. But you play all four years, right? Yep. School ends.

Dax Shepard
You're coming to terms. And I think this is the part I'd love to delve into a lot. Cause this is how I also wanna end it. It's really tricky in life when you have an identity, and for you, it had been, I guess, eight years at that point. I'm a basketball player.

I know what the finish line is. It's the NBA. In this crazy reality, all of a sudden, I'm not. Other than I might play for fun. Yeah.

Phil Heath
I might play in a pro am or try to get on that overseas trip that just didn't make sense to me. In your twenties, it's already scary. You're like, who am I gonna be as an adult? What am I pursuing? And then to have the thing that you are certain of disappear so quickly is fucking brutal.

Dax Shepard
And you had a real rough time with it. Absolutely. I was also facing the reality of the fact that I had friends that were already in the NBA and playing at the University of Denver. Every opposing team that was going against the Denver Nuggets practiced at our university. I saw Kobe Bryant fresh out the gate.

Phil Heath
I saw Shaquille new. I saw Nick van Exel playing for the Nuggets. And you're getting a taste. Wow, look at these guys, man. He's making jump shots like it's nothing.

Check out his footwork. Who stays in after practice? Who's early, who's late, how does he walk? Every athlete has a walk, probably, like, every actor has a certain strut, and you're, like, mesmerized by this. And then you realize that ain't you.

You can only go as far as God said you're gonna go. And at that time, you can't see the bigger picture. You're the kid that used to sleep with his basketball the night before the game. You're the one that would over prepare. You're the one that was always undersized, that played with a chip on his shoulder, and you just did not get the minutes that you felt you were deserving of.

And your depression sets in and you realize, what the hell am I gonna do? I will say, fortunately for me, I was sitting next to a guy that was competing in amateur bodybuilding. Was he a roommate? He just was a classmate. Oh, okay.

I was in a programming class. What was it? Oracle nine I class doing all this shit. And I'm looking at his laptop. He's got Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, all these guys.

I got Brooke Burke on my laptop. What the hell's going on here, Brooke? And then I just realized by him explaining it to me, this is what I am into. I'm into working out for aesthetics and performance. And you're just been functional fitness for basketball.

So I was always muscular as a basketball player. So pictures of you as a basketball player, we have a good start. You're pretty overly muscular. Oh, for a hooper, absolutely. You have some good genes.

My friends back home, they'd be like. Look at the bug adoringly held you. When I would take the shooting jacket off in college, people who would laugh, they'd be like, who the fuck is this guy? Cause, you know, the student section is usually right behind you, and they're just riding you. They're like, we didn't know Denver had a football team.

Where do you get this guy? And then they're like, wait a minute. Why does his legs look like this? He can dunk. You know when your identity is tied to that and you start comparing yourself to other people who did make it?

And that was my problem. And when you see those hoop dreams just not work out, you tend to forget what is working out. And what was working out was the fact that I still had a scholarship at a prestigious university. Everything's paid for, even the fifth year. And I'm not showing gratitude for that.

I only wanna play. So during that fifth year, I had to recognize what was working out for me. And this new sport of bodybuilding April 4, 2003. I did my first amateur show. Won everything.

Dax Shepard
Hold on, though. You have a drinking spell in there. I didn't drink until I turned 21. I didn't do any. I was freaking boring.

Monica Padman
But was it cause basketball? It was a combination of everything. I didn't wanna screw a good thing up with basketball at the time. I just didn't feel like I needed to party to have a good time, honestly. I wanted to be around the guys and hang out with the girls.

Phil Heath
That was good enough for me. But then once you turn 21, they're like, here, let's party. We actually played on my 21st birthday. So we played against Colorado State over in Fort Collins, and we lost. Of course we did.

We lost a lot. So the whole goal was to play. Up there, win, and throw a party. As corny as it may sound today, I just wanted to go to Dave and Buster's without my fake id anymore. Right, right, because you had to be over 21.

So I was living in a basketball house. It was like five of us. It's just a thing to do on off days from playing hoops. And I didn't think of it as a coping mechanism. If anything, I thought it was something that brought us together.

And you're just laughing. You're telling Joe's talking trash. Can boys be kind of emotional with each other? Which they can't normally. You're drunk and you say to your friend, like, I fucking love you.

Dax Shepard
You can't say that. So. Right. I think for boys in particular, you're just craving it so much, and this thing allows you to be really close with each other in a way that feels quite nice. It was.

Phil Heath
But at the same time, I did realize that waking up the next day having to go to practice was not fun, and that had to get cut off at some point. It was our senior season, we played in a Sunbelt conference just on one road trip. We would play South Alabama, so we'd play in mobile. We would then drive 45 minutes to go play University of New Orleans. Then we'd drive up to play Louisiana Lafayette and Louisiana Tech, and then fly out.

There's Mardi Gras going on in New Orleans. Uh oh. During these months, you stay at this Marriott right off a canal in Bourbon. And coach would be like, stay in your fucking room. The freaking coach USA driver took us out one night, okay?

And we just used that per diem to go party, man. Having hurricanes and hand grenades. And then you recognize that this is getting out of hand. There was a couple teammates that got into some bad trouble. One had to take time off from the team because now you're mixing pain meds with that.

Dax Shepard
Yeah, yeah. You start to see the negative effects. That's escalating. I recognize that. But I will say I had the ability to stop.

Phil Heath
I was very lucky. I know a lot of other people couldn't stop. That's why bodybuilding worked out so well for me. Because you can't be a rock star and a bodybuilder. Because when I did my first show and I won, I drank all night and came out that next morning bloated as hell.

Those type of carbs from beers just don't work right after you've been depleting for so long. And I was embarrassed because I didn't look the part. So I was like, I'm not gonna do that again. I should have more respect for my health. So bodybuilding, for me, it always made sense to say, okay, for four months out of the year, when I'm training for competition, there is none of that.

And I actually liked that, because first of all, it was working. And second of all, it reminded me that I was doing something that very few people can do. Maybe that sounds arrogant, but I think a lot of people need to learn self control. I can still go out and go have a beer later. I'd be like, yeah, maybe one, and maybe I only drink half of that.

If you were to ask my wife, how is Phil? When you guys go out to a nice dinner and there's dessert on the table, she'll tell you, Phil will leave half of that shit on the table on purpose, just to prove to himself that he doesn't have to do it, but he can do it well. Okay, so this is what I wanna suggest. So we had Letterman on, he hasn't drank for the last 30 years or something. Wow.

Dax Shepard
He quit cause he was an alcoholic, but he never went to aa. And I said, do you think it's possible that you didn't need aa because you had another drug stepped in? And he said, 100%, every night I had a live audience to get the body to train like you did, to do what needs to be done, which I don't think people really broadly have an understanding of, you have to be fucking addicted to it. It has to be an obsession and an addiction. I imagine genetically you're predisposed to be an addict with your parents.

Phil Heath
Yep. And I just wonder if you found the addiction that didn't take you down. Is there a drug of looking fantastic? Yeah. How does that make you feel wonderful, but there's a competitive aspect about it.

That's what really got me driver. Because you know how many people I know that could probably train as hard or train harder than me? Quite a few. But they can't diet and train and do cardio and say no to people and communicate with their spouse and communicate with their friends and family, and then have curveballs thrown at their asses with life happening with people dying or friends fucking them over or business media requests. I'm doing these appearances right now, and I've been traveling all year, which is dope, but my back is fucking hurting right now.

But you do it. That's our bad couch. I'm sorry. No, no, no. You're fine.

I'm being transparent. Hey, Phil, you signed up for this. You signed up also for the unknown. You signed up for the fact that everything isn't always going to be in your favor, but you can make it that way if you stay committed to your purpose and then just knowing that if it was easy, everybody be good. And it always felt great being on a bodybuilding stage.

And that person standing next to me knows they fucked up, knows that they didn't train as hard, knows that they made a mistake. They didn't cut right. They took a chance of, oh, I'm gonna eat pizza and do a cheat meal. Because last time I did it, it made me fuller, made me drier and harder. Well, that was last time you tried that shit.

This time, instead of getting 5% better, you got 20% worse. All you had to do is just stay committed to the process of eating this bland ass meal for, like, six more hours. Maybe you would have won those 0.1% opportunities that many of us miss because of the lack of discipline at the most opportune time. Still to this day, I thrive in those situations. There's more skulls that I got to collect.

There's more titles that I must have. There's more adversity that I must be willing to go through that I don't even know what's going to happen. I didn't know that my dad was going to die when I was competing. I didn't know I was going to get a divorce. You have friends that don't like the fact that you're going through that.

You have the media that's fucking with you. We're getting more and more isolated. Winning is not the quickest road to friendships like we have Sean White on here. You would think he was loved in the snowboard community. He was hated when he would show up, they'd be like fuck, now we're fighting for a second.

Dax Shepard
That's not fun for them. They've been trying all year. Right, stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Betterhelp. We've been busy.

We've been very busy. How's your social battery right now? It's pretty low, although I think I'm coming back. You're on the upswing? I'm on the upswing.

Monica Padman
But for a minute it was low. And you just had therapy on Saturday. I saw you right after you had had it. Did I feel happy? Yeah.

Dax Shepard
You felt level? Yeah, I felt it. I've been talking about that therapy session all week. I learned something really important in that therapy session and I have been sharing it. Look, it can be easy to ignore our social media battery and spread ourselves thin, especially with social gatherings picking up after the winter.

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H Dash e Dash p.com Dax we are supported by Squarespace guys. We have a Squarespace website that. It's just gorgeous. That wabi wab, you built that yourself using all the templates? Yeah, I sure did.

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Let's go through the meteoric route. You start competing and if I understood the doc correctly, you never didn't win. Correct. Oh, my God. I'm watching it.

I'm like, did I hear that correct? It's pretty wild. So like, I did my first show. It was the NPC northern Colorado. It was in Boulder, Colorado.

Phil Heath
I did the novice in the open. Overall, I won both. I did the Mister Colorado. Two months later I won my weight class, but not the overall. So technically I didn't win the entire thing, but I was undefeated as an amateur, so to speak.

Cause I never lost a weight division. But then I came back that following year, won the Mister Colorado, went to the junior nationals, won that, got signed with Flex magazine, Muscle and fitness, and then won the Mister USA that following month in July of zero five with the COVID of Flex that same night. When you get signed to Flex, what did that mean? That means you're exclusive. So I can appear in multiple magazines.

They'll have contests, photographers, but training my mindset, you know, my words. My image and likeness will only be featured in muscle and fitness and flex. Is that a yearly contract? It was always two years. And is it enough to pay for everything?

Dax Shepard
Cause you have to train and eat all day long. Oh, yeah. You can't do anything else. No. Kyle, Ronnie Coleman was a cop.

I don't understand. I believe talking to Ronnie about it, he competed through his third Mister Olympia title as a police officer. And I know he loved it. He's his own thing. We gotta talk about it.

Phil Heath
I know firsthand what that travel schedule is like. Once your travel schedule goes through the roof, like, well over 100,000 miles a year, you have to quit your day job. You know, I was working at a ballet, total fitness as a retail store manager and I was catching shit. But when you're traveling every weekend to do guest appearances, autograph signings, we kind. Of touched on it, but now will be a good time.

Dax Shepard
Your life at that time is you're training, I imagine, twice a day, twice. A day, hour and a half, so. 3 hours a day, but you gotta eat every 2 hours, and it takes you a minute to eat. Cause you're fucking pounding all your rubbing, man. To have a normal job and eat the way you're supposed to is almost impossible.

Phil Heath
That's why you work at a gym, right? No one's gonna freak out if they, they see you eating. But you imagine being Ronnie Coleman's partner in his car and like, he's driving around in the squad car and he's got a fucking whole roast chicken that he's got to get down in between the next. That's why he didn't have a partner. Cause they're probably like, there's no way I could even focus smelling all this chicken.

Dax Shepard
So when you got this flex magazine contract, you can live on that? I did. I knew that it would lead to other things, so normally it's different nowadays, but when you turn pro, especially you, Mister USA, you would automatically get that exclusive contract with a magazine. Back then it was flex muscular development or Ironman. Then you would get a supplement sponsor also.

Phil Heath
So I didn't have both right away. A lot of people did. But I was getting paid so much from Weider with the publications that it was almost as if I was getting a supplement contract as well. So they bumped my pay up pretty nicely. So therefore I did not need to work that following year.

In zero six, when I won my first two pro shows, my stock went up tremendously because I already proven myself. That was when I first signed a supplement contract. Probably beneficial that you had waited that long. You had a lot more leverage I'd had. You been stuck in one at the beginning of your career, correct.

Dax Shepard
Are those hundreds of thousands of dollars contracts or can they be millions of dollars? I was the first one that was a million. Not then. Uh oh. But it grew into that.

Phil Heath
So I, along with, I know Jay was almost a million. I know Ronnie was close. He might have hit that, but I can confirm that I was the first on paper that was over 100 a month. That's awesome. It was great feeling to know that that was possible.

Obviously, it took a shit ton of work just to get there. Cause it wasn't right out the gate. Like, that doesn't happen. And especially nowadays, for anyone thinking that you're gonna get a million dollars supplement contract, it ain't happening. It's almost worse today because of social media algorithms, that data.

Dax Shepard
Yeah, well, they pay 16 influencers with a aggregate following that beats the one. Person I'm always advocating for, the pro. Yeah, the real deal. Because, yeah, you can find some kid, I get it. I can't knock the TikTok.

I'm happy for anyone making money doing. That, but at the same time, they're not the same. A pro is different than a casual observer. Yes, you have a line at an expo, yes, you have millions of followers, maybe. But don't you fucking dare compare yourself to someone that will literally put it on the line in front of judges that adjudicate them.

Phil Heath
You're not the same. Yeah, yeah. But it's a wild time for our sport, because there's plenty of pros now that I do believe are more influencer than competitor. They're forced to now. Yeah, it's part of the business.

Monica Padman
Actors, same thing. It's all muddy now. Okay, but we gotta explain to Monica the importance of Mister Olympia. It transcends every other event. It's the Olympics, Mister Olympia's it.

Dax Shepard
Arnold won seven. Is it once a year? Once a year. Okay. It's our super bowl of bodybuilding.

Phil Heath
So anyone that will say, oh, yeah, my friend, he's a bodybuilder. It's like, okay, what do they won? You just cut the bullshit. And if they say they won the Olympia, cause I've had people say this, oh, yeah, my friend, he won the Olympia. What's his name?

Was it the amateur Olympia? Because it might have been that shit. Cause there's only one winner per category. Yes, but Arnold is Arnold. Cause he won seven.

Monica Padman
Got it. And that was unheard of and impossible. And he was the gold standard. And then this fucking freak came along, Ronnie Coleman, who, by the way, have you watched his documentary? Oh, yeah, it's beautiful.

Dax Shepard
And I wanna talk to you about that again. I have very little knowledge of this world, but I see what this man did, and the sweetness of this man and the way he trained, and he won ate Monica. I don't think there had been a run of black winners either. So there was Chris Dickerson, who's black, and then Lee Haney, who was black, and Lee Haney actually won eight oh, yeah. So Lee Haney won eight after all.

So then I scrap my observation. No, but the reason why Ronnie Coleman is so special, not that Lee Haney isn't. Ronnie was a former college football player at Gramblin State. Majored in accounting. Saddest part of the doc.

Phil Heath
They were not gonna hire a black guy to be an accountant in the deep south. Ronnie's such a sweet guy. He's justifying it. They all said I needed some work experience, but it's like, help out of college. How do you get it?

Especially as a profession. But he's so kind and sweet. He's like, no, Ronnie, that was fucking racism. Matt cum laude. Yes.

You're given these milestones that you have to achieve so you'll be treated equally. And he does it. And they move the fucking goal post again. It's heartbreaking. So it's definitely heartbreaking.

Cause he's now delivering pizzas and newspapers. A college standout academically, with a degree in accounting. He didn't just. We'll talk shit about other majors. We call out other majors, but we all know what we're doing.

It's accounting. Yeah. Like, we all need one. And he wanted to be an accounting, and they literally wouldn't let him. And he delivers pizzas, and then he becomes a cop, and then he starts training, and he's a monster.

Dax Shepard
Now, in hindsight, Monica, this was not the way to do it. He was powerlifting prior being a football player. I mean, the guy was already jacked. His warm up for squats would be like, 500. Like, this guy's out training everybody.

He could have been, like, a world class power lifter. Oh, for sure. Cause he was on that path. But if you look at some of the old videos of him powerlifting, he looked like a bodybuilder. I believe in his story.

Phil Heath
Brian Dobson, he owned Metroflex in Arlington and gave Ronnie an opportunity to have a free gym membership if he did a bodybuilding competition. So Ronnie was like, well, I don't want to pay, so I guess I'll do it. Ronnie just becomes this monster. He also pushes the sport in a way I would imagine Arnold when he's winning those. What is he, about 240?

Yeah, he was, like mid two hundred. Forty s and tall. So six one ish. Ronnie comes along, and Ronnie starts winning Mister Olympias at 300. This has never been seen.

He was a problem. Meaning you want to go against the guys like flex, wheeler, Sean Ray. Like these. More aesthetic. Just beautiful, round, sculpted physiques.

Marvel superheroes. They have all this definition, right? Ronnie had all that. He was 511, long arms, long legs, but round and could out condition. He's making everybody look like they're in.

Seven hundred twenty p. And he's 4k. With the roundness, it's just more muscle per square inch. The muscle now jumps out at you and you're like, oh, shit, I can see this muscle on an anatomy chart. But this is a human being that stands amongst us, and he could outlift you.

You look at guys like Dorian Yates, who was out of Birmingham, England, and he was known for just hardcore training, and he could outwork anyone. It sucks, because we have to talk about this with bodybuilding. People talk about race, so they say white guys can't beat black guys, right? But Dorian did. He won six mister Olympias.

His muscles were sculpted, they were hard, just grainy, looked like granny. And then Lee Haney was more round. But when Ronnie came, he had the best of both, and that's what made him so formidable. But race comes up in that doc, which is black dudes have a harder time building calves, is the stereotype. But that was in there.

Dax Shepard
And Ronnie's like, oh, shit, I gotta fucking. Yeah, I gotta trade. I gotta murder these calves. Yeah. So interesting.

Phil Heath
It is interesting because it's the sport where when you turn pro, you're known for like one strength. Arnold's chess. Right? But when you win the Olympia, you're known for the least amount of weaknesses, not your strengths. Especially when you repeat over and over again.

It's kind of like any other sport. At some point in time, we nitpick the shit out of the best competitor. But that means you're the best, that means you're the standard. But when it comes to being Mister Olympia, Arnold one seven, Haney one eight. Ronnie won eight, I won seven.

It's the Mount Rushmore. And now we get to transfer those same qualities into business and to life. But I gotta interject some stuff. There's some intangibles, too, because Arnold had just so much charisma. Two bodies are dead equal.

Dax Shepard
He's winning, he has charisma. You proved it. He is a movie star. You have a lot of charisma. Oh, thanks.

So charisma's in the mix. You see some guys up there, and I'm watching this last night, I'm a layperson. I can't really tell this or that, but just like acting. Phil looks like he loves this job. He's happy, he's got a smile, he's up there to show off.

And other dudes are up there, and they don't have that personality. Innately, there's a lot of different things that are going, going into the stew. As a viewer, you enjoy watching someone more than you enjoy watching another person. I think it plays a role, especially if it's close. You always look at a professional that makes the hardest thing look easy.

Phil Heath
Yeah. Yeah. If it looks daunting, then it's like this guy's struggling. And some people like to see that, but not when you're supposed to give a performance. I enjoyed every minute of it.

I enjoyed the competition more than anything. There was also money involved. There's sponsorships, there's legacy. There's enough of this fucking diet that I am like, I had it. Like, when you're on stage, you're like, okay, this is it.

I ate all that food. I did all that freaking cardio. I said no to everything. I know. I did everything right.

See, there's some delusion that comes into this sport as well, because especially nowadays, everybody's telling you how great you are on social media. The overindulgence of taking the pictures, and then you're posting, posting, posting to get more likes, likes, likes. And then the fan will say, he doesn't look like that on stage. It's like, yeah, dumbass. But the competitor should know better.

The competitor should know that. The pictures I take in this natural lighting, without the oil, without the bronzer, without standing next to another competitor, that's everything. You learn that watching the doc elevated. On a platform, the parallax between left and right where the judges sit. You have to go through all these different intangibles and realize that, man, I probably shouldn't have posted as much.

I should have just posted just enough to keep them engaged. Maybe I should have posed it with just a t shirt on and just talk to them. Or better yet, maybe I saved those photographs like Phil Heath did his entire career. And you saw the doc, so you got to see my very first selfie. Yeah, yeah.

Dax Shepard
He starts doing this thing. It's very scientific. As soon as he starts bodybuilding, at first he's like, I'm gonna take a picture once a month. Then he's like, I'm gonna take a picture once a week. And he's like, no, I'm gonna take a picture every time I lift.

So I can actually be objective about this. You would draw on these pictures. These calves need to look like this. It was scientific. You have to know where you're going, right?

Phil Heath
You have to figure this out. And it's not just, oh, yeah. It's about the destination. It's like, I gotta know every freaking day that I'm getting closer, and I have to explain to someone one day that this is how I freaking did it, how my blueprint worked for me. And now I can be of service to many other people that say, hey, I want to be a bodybuilder.

I want to do this. I want to do that. Like, okay, well, are you willing to do these things? Because that's what it's going to require. Otherwise, you're going to pay someone to make sure they do these things for you.

Dax Shepard
Well, you're coaching it, hani, he's like, oh, he's my favorite guy to coach because he came out of the world of sports. He's used to having a coach go like, no, no, this sucks. You gotta work on this. Here's a weakness. The coach's worst problem is a guy that's uncoachable.

We've all seen this, unfortunately, this is me. This is my character defect. Yeah, you just like, fuck this. I'm too embarrassed. If you point out something, I get.

Phil Heath
Too embarrassed, and then you shut down. Yeah, it's terrible. This is my weakness. I think I could have been really good at a lot of things if I could just receive instruction. Maybe it was just the person, though.

Dax Shepard
I think it's me. Younger brother syndrome. You raise your hand, and you know what it is? A lot of people live in delusion. Big weakness of mine.

Monica Padman
He's still working out for him. He's doing okay. Life's okay. So the story is so good. People will love taking this ride.

Dax Shepard
Your first Olympia, you come in third. You're against Jay Cutler. You guys are buddies. 2011, you start winning, and then you just win. 20 11, 20 12, 20 13, 20 14.

2015. 2016. Is it getting scary? 2017. Scary like how every time you come back, you're like, it's mine to lose.

I don't want to disrespect anyone he was competing against. Cause he had a lot of good competition in that. But in the same way, when you watched Arnold, like, if you watch pumping iron, even if you don't know, it's pretty fucking obvious. Then, of course, it's a great story. He's got this hernia.

It fucks up his entire abdomen. He's got to get surgery, and it destroys you. Yeah. And then even when I'm watching your comeback in 2020, of course I'm rooting for you. You're the hero of my movie.

But I'm looking, and I'm like. Like, you've done a good job on the abs, but that ship sail, and. That'S the problem that the athlete has to remember. You're being compared against your old self, which is fucked up, because you're supposed to be compared to the people you standing next to. When Michael Jordan came back and he played for the Wizards, still had all star numbers, but were like, yeah, but he's not like, MJ.

Phil Heath
He's shitting me. He's still playing at a high level, but they only criticize the best for me in that particular show. So I had 27 month layoff between 2018 Olympia and 2020 Olympia because of the surgery. And during that time, I hadn't seen Hani, especially during COVID He had lost his father. I just know in my heart he was in his own funk, and he just did not want to leave.

He didn't travel normally. He would travel. We'd meet up. We'd figure these things out. And I'm not making excuses.

These are just things that happen that normally wouldn't, and we missed. It was the one time in my freaking career where the diet, toward the end, some decisions were made, and when you miss in this sport, you lose. The meticulousness of it is insane. It is insane. The water drop.

Monica Padman
Water drop. The water drop means, normally, when you're training for a competition, you want to keep your body hydrated. So you're drinking, for me, a gallon and a half to two gallons of water per day. You're splitting it up. You're not just drinking all at once.

Phil Heath
I have, like, a 25 ounce shaker cup, and I would just fill that up, and I drink that, like, every 90 minutes. So I had it on a clock, and you're running through the freaking bathroom. Today is getting through it. Give her an example. What's your weight at before you start cutting and then on?

So I'd be 280 pounds. I'm five'nine, and I get all the way down to 246. 248 from the water and the pee? No, no, no. Just from the diet alone.

So, like, right before the show, I'd be low. Two hundred fifty s. And then we would call drop the hammer. Do, like, a water depletion. Diuretics, we play around with that a little bit, but unfortunately, diuretics can kill you.

You. It's blood pressure meds. You give that to people that have excessive fluids. Right. So where bodybuilders f up their bodies, especially their physiques, that how it looks?

Typical person would say, oh, yeah. Just continue to drink your water, however you want eat within certain parameters, you can still salt your food. Just take directs, man, you'll be fine. You don't want to do that, because if you miss, you're going to look like you never died a day in your life. And you're creating a huge freaking problem that you do not want to be going to hospital for this dehydration.

And then your body rebounds, and then it's even ten times worse, and then you become holding water, you're messing up your kidneys at this point. It's just stupid. So our thing was, if we got to over diet a little bit, maybe lose a couple pounds of muscle just to get through that extra layer of fat, that marbling of fat, so be it. Because then when you do the water depletion, so as you're going from two gallons to a gallon, half to one gallon to half a gallon, you're increasing your carbohydrates because it takes certain amount of water to process one carb. You gotta be a chemist.

So you're doing this for. And then you realize, wait a minute, if I time this right, I don't need a diet. Which in fact will keep your blood pressure correct. So then you can get a pump. But if you screw up and you rely on the diuretics low blood pressure, how are you going to get a pump?

So these guys, they say, oh, I look flat. So now they're overeating. And then as you're doing that, your stomach gets bloated because of the fact that you got too much food in your system without enough water and you haven't taken a shit. So therefore, you know, people think it's always because of this growth hormone or insulin or whatever it is. It's like, like, no, dude, the guy hasn't taken a poop.

Dax Shepard
It's simpler than that. And it's very simple. It's like the guy's bloated cause he's trying to eat all this food because he knows it's gonna help with the glycogen storage and it's gonna make his muscles pop. It's just a complete disaster. So, like, in 2020, it just didn't work out for me.

Phil Heath
And normally, if I missed a little bit, I could rebound on that Saturday night. Cause it's a two day comp. But this time it was just like, ah, of course, everybody thinks they should have placed at least one slot higher. I still think I could have got second. But even then, it doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, it's the Olympia or nothing. And the best part about it, and you'll see this in breaking the Olympia, is that in 2008, I did my first mission Olympia. I placed third. In 2020, I placed third. I know you don't like it, but on the outside for story, it's nice and neat.

Dax Shepard
There's something about bookending that that's kind of sweet. I like it. I came to grips with that right away. I didn't know how much of it was performative or how sincere it was. But you seemed to take pretty well.

Phil Heath
Well, I had to, because we had already been filming breaking Olympia years prior, and in 2019, we were done. And then COVID happened, and I was like, I just watched the 2019 Olympia, and I thought right then and there, I could have won that. COVID, this is an antagonist that I kind of need. So what if I win that? Cause there's those type of people, like a John Elway that wins the two Super Bowls and rise off in the sunset.

I had friends that were like, dude, you already won seven. You're tired with Schwarzenegger. You can coin that and walk away and end on top and end on top. Because the average person would say, I would have just ended on top. And I'd say, yeah, you fucking would have.

And in fact, you would have probably stopped at one, right. Because of the risk of the unknown and finding out who the fuck you really are and knowing that someone may get left behind and all of the stress and the pressure and the sleepless nights in the early mornings. But to me, it was all worth it, because at least I could say two times I went for number eight. Right now in bodybuilding, there's no one in the world that can say, I'm going to try to tie the all time record. That's going to take some time, right?

So I wanted to give my best honest shot. And I had a friend in Dwayne Johnson. He and I had some intimate conversations about his career in wrestling, how he had to step away at one point to focus on other things, and what that. By the way, it's also worth pointing out he has the same inciting incident as you and Ronnie and everyone, which is, Ronnie's football career didn't work out. Your basketball and the rock's football career.

Didn'T work out, and we pivoted and we leveraged it. This is a great time to say it. And I said it to my ten year old, because you're watching all these guys. Me, Jay Cutler's in it a lot. Who won four times?

Dax Shepard
Ronnie Coleman's in it. You're in it. They go to the rock. I said out loud, I'm like, oh, my God, the rock looks small, doesn't he? And Lincoln's like, oh, my God, he does.

Monica Padman
Yeah. I'm like, oh, my God, this is fucking insane that you just adjust to what you're seeing and they show the rock and he kind of looked normal. That is so weird. Yeah, he's not a normal dude, trust me. Like this guy, normal, man.

He's big dudes. Yes. We train together at Iron Paradise. I feel very privileged to say that. I trained there with them.

Dax Shepard
You're probably dying to get down to black mold paradise. Yeah, just below me. I don't want that. Yes, you're going into black mole and you're gonna get those spores. No, I don't want that cultivating spores.

Phil Heath
But, yeah, it's wild because we're all just trying to be the best versions of ourselves through life's challenges. And in breaking Olympia, I mean, you're able to see myself, but in also, like you said, I mean, you get to hear from other athletes in there. We all have to give up something, and it's all to be remembered. Okay, well, I'm really glad you're really well versed in the Ronnie Coleman doc, because we had Cena in the other day. I've had a lot of people I've gotten asked this question to.

Dax Shepard
The real takeaway for me of the Coleman doc is you're watching him wake up at four and go to the gym, and he can't walk, and he has to train still. And I love him, but I'm watching that and I go, man, our identities are so tricky. Yeah, this man might kill himself because he can't be small. I don't even think it's the size aspect. I just think, actually, I know that Ronnie Coleman loves being Mister Olympia.

Phil Heath
That's what drove him. Well, it saved him also, I'd say so. He inspired all of us through his body of work. This is a man in 2004, that guest posed. It's called the NPC Rocky Mountain championships in Denver, Colorado, at east high school.

I saw him there signing autographs in the morning. I waited 2 hours then and decided, okay, I'll see him at the night show. I gotta go get something to eat. And I waited two and a half more hours to get his autograph that night. I made sure I was the last person.

I just wanted to be the last guy. And I bought four, eight by ten autographs from him. It wasn't one of those moments where I was like, you'll know my name one day. It wasn't even about that. I'm just a fucking fan and I'm just observing, like, how he carried himself as a professional, how he smiled and answered questions.

And lo and behold, that following year, obviously, I turned pro and I ended up having to cover flex. I ended up watching him compete for number eight in zero five in Las Vegas, only to figure out that Hani Rambott was one of his best friends. And I had met Hani a month prior. Whoa. And we just clicked right away.

So Hani saw me at an after party, decided to say, hey, come hang out with us. I'm like, I get to hang out with Ronnie fucking Coleman after he just won number eight. And to fast forward and seeing Ronnie Coleman at my after party, seeing Ronnie Coleman guest pose, and then slowly on the decline with his hips, with his neck and back. He's had, I guess, twelve back surgeries. This hardware for a back surgery, it's got to be specific for a person's size, but I don't think they could take into account his type of muscle.

Dax Shepard
Yeah, they're not designing shit for a. Guy that they're not. They don't know, 300 pounds a muscle, some vibranium shit. Real talk, they needed something futuristic because I know, having two hernia surgeries, that my second one was worse than the first one, and then when they put that mesh in, but I had titanium staples in mine, and second time I popped one of the staples out through my own skin, I had to go back into surgery for 20 minutes just to get it pulled out. So I know if that can happen to me on that small scale, I can only imagine Ronnie, because Ronnie had a surgery and within 90 minutes, 2 hours later, throw him back in, because he already broke through the hard work.

Phil Heath
His body is just different than anyone else in the fucking world, and I've watched it. I never got to compete against him, but I got to see him up close competing against Jay Cutler. I was there when he won his 8th. I was there when he lost to Jay and the torch was passed on. I was there when Ronnie Coleman retired on stage.

There was not a dry eye in that place. He was the best steward of that. God bless Ronnie Coleman, man, because he ultimately just loved being Mister Olympian. That's why he still trains. When you're watching, I'm gonna make you go deep.

Dax Shepard
It is heartbreaking to watch him hurt himself. You don't see him hurt himself in the gym. You just know that's not good for the back and what he's dealing with. Think of it like that. You watch him squat, 800 pounds, and he does it for more than one rep.

Phil Heath
He puts on a squat suit. It's during the cost of redemption. So Ronnie Coleman had won the 2002 Mister Olympia. There was a guy by the name of Gunter Schlierkamp who got fifth, who then went on tour, I want to say, like a month later, and beat Ronnie Coleman at the GNC show of strength. Anytime that happens, everybody thinks he's vulnerable.

Ronnie Coleman can be beaten. What did Ronnie Coleman do? He went back in the gym and said, that shit ain't ever gonna happen again. And that's when he did this DVD called the cost of redemption. You need to fucking watch this.

He did an uncanny weight in one leg session. This guy's doing 800 pound squat. I think he got it for three. He said he could have got it for more. And then he did like a 2300 pound leg press, and he's doing this for a set of ten during the same.

This workout will never be duplicated because you might be able to do the workout, but you won't look like him while doing it. You won't have that muscle. You might just be a strong ass. Dude, you'd be like one of these strong men's, but you wouldn't have the definition. I think those are the workouts collectively over time that you're going to have compression.

He slipped a disc in one of his back workouts, and of course that happens. He didn't have the same recovery protocol. I think that he would have had. Maybe today Jay Cutler's in the doc and he said, look, we do it differently now. We don't do the heavy weight.

Dax Shepard
We do more reps. Still heavy, trust me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, just for context for everybody. Like, it's still fucking heavy.

Phil Heath
We're not doing 800 pound squat, but we're doing. Not Ronnie Coleman. No. Ronnie Coleman's in a league of his own. You know, you're taking like your best lift.

Let's say. You're saying, oh, man, I could bench 500 pounds. He's like, 500 pounds. Okay, I'll do that for twelve. I can only do that for a single shit.

All in one workout. He could do like 200 pound dumbbell presses in one hand. So crazy. It's not just one exercise. He's doing that plus inclined dumbbell press.

Dax Shepard
He's a superhero. No bullshit, he is a superhero. You ask him, would you change up anything? He says no, he seems to be. At peace with it.

But I guess on the outside, what I wanted to say is, like, you know, you'd be loved by everyone no matter what size you were. I would want him to hear that and believe that. You think that's what it was, though, or just the pursuit of. I'm gonna go as far as I can. Yeah, maybe.

Maybe I'm totally wrong. I think I just know what it's. Like for me to have an identity, and that's why people like me and I'm wrong all the time. Turns out people like me for way different reasons than I think that could. Be part of it.

Phil Heath
Maybe I have to ask him. But I will say that Ronnie Coleman has still one of the longest cues at an expo you'll ever see. So even with him in a wheelchair. He'S also eaten oxy eighties, like fucking M and Ms. And I'm an ex opiate addict.

Dax Shepard
The amount of fucking opiates he has, that'll be on to exist. It's not ideal. It's not ideal. You can tell there's a point in time where you're doing interviews and speech is definitely compromised. How old is he's paying the price?

59. Yeah, he's turning 60. Big birthday yurt. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare. We are supported by ziprecruiter.

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I ask you all this because you have this huge transition that you're in the middle of, and I'm wondering what stuff is hard for you. Like a let's just go through. You had a regiment that was so time consuming that there wasn't space for you to be wandering, right. What should I be doing? There was no time for that.

You now have this time to contemplate where you're at in life, which can lead to depression. There's all this stuff. You are the best. Now you're retired, how big do you stay? This is a question you have to be wondering.

Yeah, I have to imagine for you, it's really heavy on your plate. When I decided to do a bodybuilding show, I think of every freaking scenario, every permutation possible. I have to, because it's not just me involved, it's my wife involved. It's friends, it's family, people who you lean on for assistance, for resources. I know in my whole being, I could compete and be highly competitive at the Olympia level.

Phil Heath
If not, win another one. I have to fight that demon every time I go to the gym. So it was to a point where I have not been to the gym. Ladies and gentlemen, I haven't been to the gym for one consecutive month since I trained for that last show. Part of it was because I needed to know who I was, aside from the weightlifting.

So, like, we're talking about going deep, I had to figure this out because majority of people go to the gym as a band aid for their problems. Why not just rip the band aid off and see who you really are. But that's the problem. People may lack the discipline or the space to then not go into complete darkness. And drugs, alcohol, women, gambling, just mistreating your whole soul.

And yeah, I had moments where I was unsure of myself. I know that I'm supposed to be this massive entrepreneur. I know I'm supposed to be this public global speaker. I've done that even while I was competing. But now I'm talking about perseverance in a different way.

I'm reapplying longevity and knowing that I have a great future. But, oh, shit, I'm starting to feel like I'm back in this basketball scenario again. So let's not allow it to happen. Let's now unpack everything. This is going to take a lot of fucking time.

Thank God for breaking Olympia. We ended up doing more interviews because you realize that you're not going deep enough. And although it costs money, it was worth it. Because I wanted to be my most vulnerable, authentic self for the viewers, because I needed them to see me as a man. I needed people to see me beyond just a bodybuilder.

I needed them to understand that this is not a story about protein shakes and steroids. This is about a man's journey to find himself and love himself through the hardest battles of his life. Well, my favorite stuff is you copying to the Instagram addiction, how easily you get ensnared in it. I'm like, oh, man, I relate to that. Yeah, I know about reading comments and clapping back and going, why on earth?

And then you're realizing you're giving up. Tension when there's all these people that said they loved you, that you just hearted. You know, I got millions of people that love me, and I don't care about that, but I care about this jackass living in mom's basement. Or maybe he's just a person that doesn't live in mom's basement. I don't know what his life is.

Monica Padman
So we don't need to care, right? It's because, yeah, I carry insecurity. But you know what's funny? When people say, oh, you're insecure. Fuck yeah, I am.

Phil Heath
Really? Want to know why? Because I give a shit. I twist these different definitions like, oh, you're insecure. Yeah, that keeps me going.

That keeps me not satisfied. See, your security got you in a box. You're comfortable. That's why you don't have what you truly desire, because you're scared. Because you know that on the outside of that secure box, is insecurity, is the unknown, is the problems, is the shit that you got to deal with.

And removing bodybuilding, for me, allowed me an opportunity just like COVID. When COVID hit, what do people do? They drank. Domestic violence increased, bad habits and bad patterns increased. For me, I looked at it as an opportunity to realize, okay, Phil, you have a lot of demons, dude, you're not going to the gym, and you're like, scratching.

You're an addict. You need to go to the gym. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When times got rough, I tell my wife, I need to go to the gym, I need to go to gym. Like, straight up addict.

She'd be like, no, you have these things you gotta do, you know, you're coming out of body. And then I had to sit with it and be calm, and I had to get on my knees and just scream, pound the pavement. What is my purpose? What am I supposed to do right now? I know what it takes to be Mister Olympia.

I don't know what it takes to be Phil Heath. That's just different. So, like, what does this mean? Who am I supposed to impact? And as you're saying these things, you already fucking have the answer.

You're just too afraid to let this other part go. Oh, it's so. And then realize that me letting go of basketball allowed me to become a better bodybuilder, because I was able to bring all the attributes that got me to be a division one athlete into bodybuilding. Being a self starter, being raised as an only child, no one had to tell me how to train. Being coachable, I got to use it to my advantage.

Now I have to do the same thing with life. I'm going to add, though, a lot of people wrestle with this. A lot of people, they're the vice president of a company, and that's how they relate to everyone. And that feels good. I get it.

Dax Shepard
When they walk out on the street, it's not that everywhere they went, people knew they were a vice president. So when they quit being a vice president, it's not that everyone's going to visually be able to look at them. So you've had this. I would say it's very compounded, identity wise, is that you're enormous. You have a very visual representation of your identity, more than a lawyer has or a doctor.

So I think it's very compounded for you. I can't imagine when I'm 62 and I have spaghetti arms. I am assuming for you it's gotta be 1000 x of what I even wrestle with. It's quite relative. But then again, that's a lot of energy, dude.

Phil Heath
I gotta compare myself to seven times. Like, wasn't that the whole point, Phil? Well, we know that intellectually, but then there's an emotional side of us. Absolutely. That's still eight years old.

Dax Shepard
What I'm really curious about is, how do you see your body going forward? What's the smallest you could be where you wouldn't be? Like, oh, my God, I've evaporated probably. When I'm dying, I guess, you know, that's how I look at it. I mean, I had a succession plan.

Phil Heath
By the time you're 45, you're probably gonna weigh this. When you're 50, you're gonna weigh this. When you're 55, you're gonna weigh this. And now it's more. You can weigh whatever you want as long as your blood work says this.

Monica Padman
Oh, that's great. Your physical says this. That's all that matters, because those numbers don't lie. Like, if your cholesterol is high, it don't matter if you're 190 or 290. You need to see your calcium heart score.

Phil Heath
You need to do all that shit. But I will say me being 280 pounds, it requires so much effort that I recognize that's not necessary to be an iconic figure in the sport of bodybuilding. More people see me happier. You're probably more fun to go out to dinner with now. I was always fun to go out with.

Was that recently, I heard an interview with David Goggins, and David Goggins was talking about how he has this stare, and people think that he's just being a dick, when really, he ain't even thinking about you. You're not even in the room. He's thinking about everything else he's got to do. So I've been doing that for my whole adult life. So I think by being misunderstood, that's what people got.

It's like the late Kobe Bryant. He had that stare, too. He could be sitting on the bench, and he's already hyper focusing on what he needs to do. And you have Chris rock in the background. There's a video of Chris Rock just talking to Kobe during a game, and Kobe's just, like, locked in.

He doesn't even budge. Yeah, you don't hear. I understand that. I know what that silence is like in the midst of competition, where the decibels are over 100 and you hear nothing but your own heart and what you need to fucking do to get the job done. That's so freaking powerful.

But my obligation is to my greater purpose. My greater purpose is to be able to share the fact that you can transition away from the sport of bodybuilding. Looking at guys like Arnold as your muse and saying, if I could just come close to that, that would feel freaking great. I've been so fortunate to train next to Arnold. I never trained with him when I was competing, but to go to his show in Ohio, to go to his show recently in England, and his people hit me up and say, arnold would like to train with you.

Fuck, yeah. This is sick. This is so much fun. And to be acknowledged as also a seven time, I get to share that. I now get to build on a relationship like that.

I don't need to go back to be somebody I already am. You didn't lose it. It didn't go away. No. But the mindset, I know, the passion.

Dax Shepard
I've been around Arnold a lot as well. The one thing I really hope you can take from him is when you're around Arnold, he is not 260 anymore. No, he's an older man. He is still the barbarian to me. You're so right.

But you don't assume that for yourself. You don't give yourself that same grace, which is like, no, no. When I'm with Arnold, I'm like, that's Conan the barbarian. He's in really good shape and he's having fun and he's doing his thing. He's not what he was, but he is always what he was to me because I love him.

This one's going to be the hardest, but I need you to know where I'm coming from beforehand. I am so pro bodybuilding. I love it. I'm not someone that's like, lay it on me. Okay.

Okay. And this is about retirement or the new identity. So I'm on testosterone. I'm probably gonna take it the rest of my life. I love how I feel on it.

Way more energetic. Probably better to be around. Yeah. I started six years ago. I was ready to retire, and then I started taking it, and then we started this show, and I just love how it makes me feel now.

That's gotta be in the mix. How are you deciding what you'll hang on to chemically? Oh, that's easy. I was fortunate to get with a company called transcend out of Auburn Hills, Michigan, and their main focus was to help people stay optimal. And I never partnered with a company of any sorts when it comes to hormones, ever in my career, because I never believed that they were doing things the right way.

And with these guys, well, it's a very tricky thing. Cause I've had a lot of actors in here that are clearly on a lot of stuff, and I don't bring it up. Cause they're not trying to tell a kid they should do what they did. I understand the pressure, and it's very hard to be honest about it. I'm one of the few people who tell you I'm on testosterone.

Almost no actor will tell you that. You wanna know what my goal was when I turned pro back in the day, was that one day we could have this conversation openly and not have it be so dark and stigmatized. Yeah, you want to be optimal, right? So this is what you do. We're not saying that.

Phil Heath
First and foremost, just because you take testosterone, you're going to be Ronnie Coleman. You're going to be Phil Heath. Get the fuck out of here with that. Right away. That's the problem.

Because you get guys that are not committed, not disciplined, don't have the genetics, don't have the work ethic, and would say, well, if I did that, I would be like, him. My tiny nothingness. I have dudes go like, yeah, if I was on testosterone. I'm like, serious. I also eat very specifically.

Dax Shepard
I also work. These are guys that you gotta stop. They think you can take and look great. Then I'm like, give it a shot. Literally, give it a shot.

Phil Heath
Right. So me working with transcend helps address a lot of those things and bring better awareness. So now I'm on the other side of it. Well. Cause you have different goals now.

Dax Shepard
There was a protocol you had when you were Mister Alonzo that clearly as a retiree. And is that hard to say goodbye to? It's not hard at all. Because once you say you're done, you also realize what's ahead. And what's ahead is greater health.

Phil Heath
Because what's the thing that happens when you turn pro? Oh, he's on all this stuff. And everybody thinks that they know what you're taking. When, in fact, I took way less than you guys probably ever could imagine. There were certain compounds that I never even used.

Just because you did it doesn't mean that I did it. And it's all speculation. And there's guys that claim natty status, and they clearly aren't. So you better off just saying, I did what I did. You don't know what I did, but the results matter.

And my skin texture looks very nice and clean. You didn't see me all rashed out. Acne all over your back. That and the fact that you don't see all bumps and lumps in my physique. The muscle fibers still have its own integrity.

If I flex my bicep right now, you see lines in there that you. Ain'T gonna see from other people. And that's because I did things a certain way. And I was able to use peptides that help reduce inflammation. I had those two hernia surgeries.

So I needed something to get rid of that. I needed something to help with my gut microbiome. You got your second brain and your gut. So of course, me traveling around the world, world. I've eaten everything in sight, have had intestinal parasites.

I've had all that. You need certain medications to help clear that out. Also, I had long COVID, I had COVID pneumonia. I was in the hospital for a week. Oh, my God.

So your cognitive delay is definitely apparent. I did remdesivir. I did all that shit just to get out of there. I was in bad shape. So to know that I'm with a company now, that I can have medications prescribed to me that I can take with me everywhere that are going to help me stay optimal, helped me have better mental clarity.

I was not as clear as I am right now, speaking with you with this type of verbiage. Three years ago, I had a torn MCL. I need to get back in the game. I have a company that can monitor these things. And I have licensed wellness specialists, along with my own specific doctor that I work with.

So I do panels every three months. And fortunately for me, when I was competing, I always did panels. I did full chem panel. I was the one that was spending more money than your bro at the gym. Just doing the bro science of like, oh, yeah, I'm taking testosterone.

I'm doing EQ, I'm doing trend first and foremost. I did my first few competitions clean against guys that weren't. That's what taught me that I could beat a lot of people. Yeah, yeah. I was regular Saiyan.

Beating Super Saiyans, man. Like, I was already that dude. I now promote a company that says, look, before you decide to make this jump, let's at the very least look at your blood work and see if you're even deficient. Because a lot of people are just doing, especially kids. Well, it's not even optimal, right?

Dax Shepard
They go way above anything else. You're talking about the kids. Kids on TikTok taking testosterone. Yeah. Wow.

Phil Heath
Taking, trembling, stuff like that. They don't even need it and they don't even know. And I've said this time and time again, and I feel like this is my calling to tell these younger people, first of all, I gotta tell the parents, you need to be more active in your kids lives. You need to follow who they follow and what they're watching, just like how you would on the television. You need to know what they're liking on social media, because that'll give you a clear indication as to what the hell they're up to.

So if they're liking certain people that produce social media content that have drugs involved that are not prescribed, obviously, because you have to go to a doctor to go get these things. First of all, you're committing a crime. So you gotta know that part and then the education part about it. If some people says, well, it's just a little testosterone, this 20 year old's taking it. It's like, but why is he taking it right now?

We have to address the different psychological issue. We have to understand, why does that matter? Is it because of the fact that this influencer over here is making a million dollars because he looks a certain way? Do you like Lane Norton, by chance? Do you follow him?

Oh, by Elaine. Yeah, he's funny, dude. I love him. I've become a greater fan of Lane over the years because he makes it his mission to just debate, and we need that. Annie's science first.

For me, I don't have, obviously, that background, but I do have my own body to say, like, for me, this is what worked as a 44 year old male. I'll be 45 at the end of the year. I can use less and get more based on what's currently available through great company understanding. There's more science as far as the timing of things. Just like there's nutrient timing with supplements, there's timing with certain medications.

Once you can put all the pieces together, you can really make something magical happens, something very beautiful. So my advice to a lot of people that want to get into the hormones and stuff is that, first of all, you got to get your blood work done. We already got to do that. And most guys don't want to do that because they're going to be told some things they don't want to hear. They're going to be told that your a one c is high.

You know, you may be pre diabetic, you drink too much or you smoke too many cigarettes. So you can't just say, okay, I'm going to get on testosterone. I'm going to buy some stuff from some dealer at a gym, which is fucking illegal. And it's very reckless? You're just going to damage your body.

Now, for kids? You're fucking stupid. And I'm saying this as your big brother. I want to put my arms around these kids, these young, 1819, 2022 year old guys. Ped performance enhancing drug.

They're not even competing in anything, right? So, they're just doing it just to be doing it. And they're doing it just for social media. So, that's not what champions do. What champions do, they figure out their diet, exhausting every other option.

They are looking at delayed gratification. They're understanding recovery modalities. Here's one for you. How many influencers do you see online talk about the diet, the training? They can talk about PD's, but what's their recovery protocol?

Not just cold plunges. We're talking about, like real recovery protocols. We're talking about the infrared sauna. We're talking about the Vitaris 320. You know, the hyperbaric therapy.

We're talking about DRX 9000 traction tables, so that you don't have the compression that Aroni Coleman had. We're talking about MLS laser therapy that actually helps stimulate the collagen production around the body parts, so then you have more collagen production, therefore more vasodilation. You know, you can actually inhibit more healing. Shockwave therapy, it's kind of the same thing. See, these are all the things that I was fucking doing.

I'm treating this body like an f one car. Thank you. You took it right out of my mouth. It's f one all day. Because you gotta know every little detail, and you gotta know why they work and how they work in certain sequence.

And that's why you're able to see someone like myself, in breaking Olympia, win all those titles. I'm actually gonna be training not for the Olympia, but for the Olympia. It's the 60th Mister Olympia this year. I've been commentating the Olympia for the last two years, and I'm actually the same weekend as the Olympia, which will be back in Las Vegas. I'm going to be inducted into the International Sports hall of Fame.

So, I have this idea that with breaking Olympia releasing now, people are going to want to see what's going on. I got a lot of cool things ahead. I just think it'd be funny as hell if I'm commentating this show and I look kind of ripped, you know? Imagine doing a pre show and I just strip. Yeah, this is what they need.

They need the pause. They need the cast. I'm black and I got cast. You need this. You need the lines on the biceps.

This is for the viewers. Now, I'm kind of putting myself out there, even saying this on the podcast, but those are those things I'm thinking, Phil, you don't have to do that, but you'd be funny, and I wouldn't be the competition, Phil, that people have seen. I want to show the transition because no disrespect to eight time Ronnie Cole, people think that's what's going to happen to every person. I can be the example of that not being the case. Jay Cutler, perfect example.

So I think it's important to teach other guys. Cause I now implore a lot of other IFBB pro bodybuilders to create a plan. Be honest with yourself and say, look, man, what's your career earnings looking like right now? If majority of guys, not the women, because the income is not why they do it. A lot of women that compete, they may not make as much on stage, but they can make more online because girls will buy leggings like merch nonstop over guys.

But with guys, I want them to just take a sheet of paper and write down their career earnings and then ask themselves, how much money would they like to make, and what do they make with their sponsors? And then go through that hero's journey of saying, you're a bodybuilder, but you're also other things, and list those other things, and those got to be your goals, too. You got to fill that enormous void that's left behind. Yeah. Otherwise you're going to be like Mickey Rourke and the wrestler, like, you're going to be that guy that just keeps coming back.

And those judges got to move someone up and move someone down. We need a new story. They can't keep you up there forever. So your life expectancy, just the stress alone of doing shows, man, you're giving up stuff. You want to get to a point where maybe you're in your early forties, like myself, and realize I can still apply this crazy, semi narcissistic attitude to something more productive that can serve a greater purpose.

And technically, my nickname is the gift. Where am I giving if I can give service? Like, even in this podcast, I'm happy. If I can be of service to some person at a children's hospital, I'm happy if I can create a product or a service that's going to make you better, more confident. I'm happy also having this documentary.

Every time I watch it, I tear up. To be able to see your life told like that, and it's worthy of. That, and it has all my friends in it. Yeah. Even guys that I didn't like.

I didn't like Kai Green. Oh, I love Kai. That's a story. Did you like the rivalry? Yeah, I had no idea it existed.

Dax Shepard
I had seen Kai in other documentaries, and I just liked his spirit. He seems, like, so sweet also. I didn't realize he even had that side. You guys are, like, pushing each other on stage. Yeah.

He was the one that called you character. It was really impressive. That was a moment I'll never forget. And I remember telling my wife, I say, you know what's wild is that he was the only one, and I still feel this way. I would be the one, knock on wood.

Phil Heath
God forbid something bad happened to him, I'd be by his bet, because it's honor. Honor and respect go a long way with me. And he and I elevated the sport in a different way during the drop off with the magazines and the influx of social media. It was just incredible. No, it's getting, like, UFC fight style, the promotion, the shit talking.

Could you imagine if we would have fabricated some of that, leaned in, like, if we would have leaned in real hard on that. By the time I think that could have happened, he had moved away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was so much more meat on that bone. Yeah, no, it's crazy.

Dax Shepard
You got the real sense, like, are these dudes gonna fight on stage or are they gonna flex? What's happening here? What is this tournament about now? And if he walked in your house right now, I'd be like, get this fucker out of here. You know what I mean?

Phil Heath
We would say that, but no furniture would be moved. But it's just great to know someone that wanted something so bad that you can relate to. That's the thing, is, your enemy happens to also be the one of ten dudes on planet Earth that know exactly what your experience is. Your rivals might, but it's bullshit. You guys have more in common than any two people standing anywhere on planet Earth.

It's like, what, Magneto and freaking Professor X? You can't really be friends, but you can sit down, maybe have a chat. Well, Phil, this has been awesome. I love the documentary breaking Olympia. When does it come out?

March 26 on everywhere but Netflix. You gotta watch it. I'm pumping this up because I'm just so happy. No, it's great. And my daughter loved it.

That says a lot. Well, I got the best endorsement because she came out and wanted to flex. Exactly. She was pumped, man. Like, she hit the most muscles.

Monica Padman
I know. She loved it. She's athletic. All right, well, Phil, what a pleasure talking to you. I wish you luck with everything and can't wait to watch this incredible transition that you're right in the middle of.

Phil Heath
Oh, thank you. Stay tuned to hear Miss Monica correct all the facts that were wrong. It's okay, though. We all make mistakes.

Monica Padman
All right, we ready? We're ready. Okay. Perfect. You sleepy?

Dax Shepard
I just got a little sleepy. Yeah. The sun is not out. It's supposed to come out. Do you know the sun never once came out in seven days in Austin?

Monica Padman
Really? No, never. It was the most overcast I've ever seen any place for seven days straight, resulting, though, in one good lightning storm on Saturday night. That's really fun. Yeah, it just.

It says it's sunny. Yeah. And that's a lie. That's a lie. Hi.

Phil Heath
Hmm. Let me see if mine says sunny. Okay. Yeah. Mine says, literally the word sunny.

Dax Shepard
First thing that pops up. Bright sun. And that's not what we got outside. The brightness of sun. And it's a lie.

Monica Padman
It also says. It says it's unhealthy for sensitive groups right now. And that's me. That's weird, because it's been cool and overcast. Doesn't it feel like good air?

Dax Shepard
I wonder if that's including all the pollen in the air. Good thing I'm wearing sunscreen. So do you wear sunscreen every day? No, I don't. If I'm gonna be very, very exposed, I'll do my face and just my right arm with all my tattoos.

Monica Padman
That's if you're, like, out in the sun. Yeah. If I'm in more than just, like, if I hike. No, yeah, no, I know, I know. People are gonna blast me for this.

Dax Shepard
Are we ready? I'm ready. Okay, let's start with the fact that there was just no such thing as sunblock until 60 years ago. Okay. So somehow humans were living just fine, and then you might go, well, they were getting skin cancer a lot, probably.

Monica Padman
They didn't know it was skin cancer. They just died. Well, that's true. I just. Sometimes I have a hard time accepting that, like, we have to have this thing that we've never, ever had.

Dax Shepard
Does that make any sense? Before you blast me, I blast you on that. Okay, but hold on.

People didn't even have hats. They didn't have hats. They didn't have sunglasses. They lived out. They lived outside.

All I'm saying is you have to recognize, like, we were designed to be outside in the sun. All day long without sunblocking. Yeah. For 30 years. No.

Monica Padman
Yeah, no people died or much younger. We have talked about this. That's a very misleading thing that gets bandied about. People live till their seventies all the time. Time.

Dax Shepard
The infant mortality rate was so bad that it cuts the overall length of age in half. So if you were to get rid of the people that died before ten years old, then looked at how long people lived in any, at any point in human history, they're living to 60 and 70 still. It's very misleading. Well, whatever. I'm just not, you know, we just.

Sometimes we go like, well, we have to have this thing. And it's like, well, it's okay to rewind, like 100 years. And no, we actually didn't have this thing and we never have had this thing. So the notion that we have to have it now, is it beneficial? Sure.

Does it reduce skin cancer? I bet. But also, are almost all of us low in vitamin D? Yes. Everyone I know that gets a blood panel finds out they're low in vitamin D.

So that seems to be kind of pandemic levels of low vitamin D. So I go, like, you're tossing up. Are you? Do you want to be low in vitamin D your whole life or mitigate the chance of getting skin cancer? I don't know.

There's been long enough term look at all this to see which one's worse. All that to say, I don't let myself get burnt. I never get burnt, ever. So however I'm doing it, I'm planning it pretty well. Like, if I know I'm going to be outside for 5 hours, I'll put sunblock on.

But if I take a hike and I'm out for 90 minutes, I don't get burnt in that time. All right, let it rip. I'll sure hear about it in the comments. I mean, it helps with skin cancer, but also just your skin. Yeah.

I think I would have less wrinkles and would age more gracefully if I never let my face get tan. I acknowledge that. Yeah. It's a huge part of skincare. People are super into skincare.

Like the sun's the devil. Exactly. Yeah, it is. People are like, oh, my God, I gotta get out of the sun. Yeah.

Which again, I just gotta, I gotta remind everyone we lived outside. We're like every animal, young. I agree. We didn't have, like, we. Our society is pretty obsessed with staying youthful and looking youthful.

Agreed. Agreed. Whether that's right or wrong, that is what a lot of us want. Yeah. I'll just observe some people that they're, like, they're outdoors and they're getting sun on their face.

And you would think they were like an albino mole that lives underground. Like, you know, you're are. You are designed to live outside. Just throwing that out there as a reminder. I brought this up because I, myself, am not very good about sunscreen.

Well, now I feel like if I had your skin color, I would wear skun screen because I would like to be a little tan. I look way better. A little tan. So if I'm gonna live in 50 sunblock, my face is gonna be ghostly white with yellow spots all over it and brown freckles and mess. But if I was had your base skin color, then maybe I wouldn't care as much.

Monica Padman
Well, I struggle. I know. It's like, you wanna find a sunscreen that's not gonna break you out, or that's, for me, the issue. So I skip it a lot because I'm scared it's gonna mess my skin up. Yeah.

But I found one I'm currently using that I like. It has a tint. You can also use tinted sunscreen, so you get a little tint. Well, I use tinted moisturizer. Vicky.

Dax Shepard
Becky. Yeah. Moisturizer. There might be SPF in that. There might be, huh.

Well, then I wear it. Okay, great. Let's assume so. Yeah. So I found a new one, and I'm giving it a whirlwind.

Monica Padman
I'm being better about it now. I look, I know someone's gonna be listening who's lost a loved one to skin cancer, and they're gonna be so upset that I'm saying this out loud. Yeah, probably. No. Am I gonna dig myself deeper by pointing this out?

Who do you want to be in this world? Myself. Okay. That's my dedication. Great.

Dax Shepard
So myself speaking. Yeah. If you lost a loved one to skin cancer, of course you would be very upset to hear someone be lackadaisical about it or not take it seriously. Yeah, but I would. I just have to push back and go.

But also, more people died in car accidents. So we really do. We pick. But it's not about more people die versus. It's not.

Monica Padman
It's not. It is zero sum. You can take care of your skin and wear sunscreen has nothing to do with car accidents. I'm pointing out the paradox that people have lost someone they love to skin cancer. They feel like they should be telling people to always wear skin block.

Dax Shepard
I acknowledge it. I'd be the same, I'm sure. But if you lose someone in a car accident, you don't tell everyone you know, don't drive a car. You probably say you should wear a seatbelt if you lost someone you love in a car accident. My guess is that you have strong feelings about seatbelts and, like, probably strong feelings about.

But I mean, you can die with a seatbelt. I mean, you can, but it's dying safer. It's a lot less likely if you're wearing a seat belt. Same with the sunscreen. Okay, so then let's.

You don't like that example? Let's. For me, people that die in car accidents die with seatbelts on. That a lot don't. A lot don't.

Monica Padman
A lot do the preventative nature of a seatbelt. Can I. I'm just saying you can wear a seatbelt and still die in a car accident. Sure. It doesn't inoculate you from death.

You can wear sunscreen and get skin cancer. The whole point is helping your chances. Right. And then I'm just saying, we go through the list and it's like, well, we'd also be at heart disease way before we would be at skin cancer for total deaths. And so I don't like.

Dax Shepard
Because my father died of heart disease and cancer, take your pick. They're both happening at the same time. I don't like, tap anyone on the shoulder who's eating too much fat and go like, hey, you know, my dad died of heart disease. You're going to get heart disease. Well, if that person is saying out loud, it doesn't matter, you might say that you're painting a very specific circumstance where you are declaring something out loud.

Monica Padman
So you are. Here's exactly what I'm saying. If you look at the five biggest killers in life, we don't ever feel entitled to tell those people not to do the things that lead to those five biggest killers. People aren't randomly policing each other online about what they're eating or that they're driving in a car or that they're doing any number of the many high probability sources of death. Well, I disagree.

I think people are very vocal about. Very vocal about what people should be eating, when people shouldn't be eating, and also don't text and drive and don't like. It's. There's a lot of that out there. I see.

But also, I agree. I don't think it's a great thing to just be constantly like, hey, watch out for this. This happened to me. Hey, watch out for this has happened to me. But if someone is actively saying something to me that I know someone in my life died because of this.

I would feel compelled to do that. I wouldn't just be putting it out there for no reason. In this specific case, you're speaking on sunscreen. Yeah, I guess I'm probably not. I'm not conveying the point I'm making very well, clearly.

Dax Shepard
I guess maybe if I were already actively making tons of decisions to prevent the most likely ways of dying, it would make sense that I would then get down to the 11th and 12th and the 15th and the 16th. Most likely. We're just looking at odds. And I'm a logical human being who's trying to prevent my untimely death. The smartest way to go about that would go, what kills people the most.

Okay, so I've got a game plan for that. What kills people the second most? I got a game plan for that. Right. I think a lot of people have pretty thorough game plans.

Monica Padman
For number 28, it's being positioned as you only have time for like four. So you're prioritizing. But you don't have to prioritize because. Well, if you were logical, if you were just hardcore logic, you would start with the most likely thing to kill. You can do it all.

Dax Shepard
You can do all of it well, can you? Yeah. What is like taking 14 seconds to put sunscreen on in the morning gonna do? Like. It's not.

Monica Padman
It has nothing to do with the other things. You can then do the other things. True. True. For the things that you think that are much higher on the.

Dax Shepard
I can see to that. I guess my point is someone could get. I can see someone getting very wound up about me not using sunblock and not me driving a car. Sure. Which I do think there's some interesting.

I don't want to say hypocrisy there, but there is some interesting thing that's happening, Zachary. I think if people are going to get on your case, specifically you, for not wearing sunblock, like maybe relax because it's not your body, who cares? But I feel that if you're saying sunblock doesn't matter, then that is going to gonna someone to say something. No, no, I'm. I'm not advising anyone to not wear a sunblock.

Yeah, everyone wear sunblock. And don't drive in a car. And don't eat saturated fat. And don't do. Like, I can list the million things we shouldn't do if we wanna increase our odds of making it to 100.

Monica Padman
I guess it's just risk reward driving in a car. The risk is worth it to most people. There's no risk to wearing sunscreen. There's nothing. There's nothing.

Dax Shepard
Well, for me, unless you. You're chronically low vitamin D, and you're on all these vitamin D supplements that seem to barely move the needle. And I think, well, what if we got it the traditional way, which is the sun. I don't know. Well, anyway, I found a new one that's pretty good.

A sunblock. You like that? I'm liking face. I like goop the most. Super goop.

Super goop. Yep. Super goop. I love that. It feels very nice going on.

Monica Padman
It is. When I wear it. I like wearing it, actually. It feels good. I have the clear one, though.

Some people I see put on sunscreen with a brush. Oh. And I want to start trying that. Okay. They paint it on.

Dax Shepard
We do that with the boys. Yeah. It's a thing for kids to make it. My hands too, but they like it. Cause it feels really nice.

Monica Padman
So it's, like, more palatable. Cause kids don't like wearing. Yeah. You don't wanna hear your mom or dad's hands on your face, but a nice paintbrush. Yeah.

Well, more makeup brush, you could do a paintbrush, but. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's more flattering and nice on the skin. But I think I want to start trying that.

Cause I think I'll like it. So what else about. Oh, do you want to tell. Do you want to reveal your date? Oh, sure.

Dax Shepard
I doubt he would mind. Okay. But, yeah. My date was with Matthew McConaughey, which was. It was up first for me to ask someone out on a date.

I don't know. Sure. So just to recap. Yeah, we've interviewed him twice. That went very well.

But that's just an interview. And over Zoom, I think both of us. Right? Yeah. And then only the one time that I was around him at this camping trip for, like, whatever, we talked for an hour.

But I was in Austin, and I been wanting really bad to go see Andrew Schultz do stand up, and so. And also, I follow Andrew on Instagram, and I was. I was just seeing all of these incredible venues he's selling out, and I was just so happy for him. He, like, sold out the forum, which is fucking incredible for a stand up. So impressive.

So I had randomly just sent him an Instagram message, like, blown away by how well you're doing, and he's like, you got to come to a show. So then I decided to just look on his website, and then, lo and behold, he happened to be playing Friday night in Austin. Impossible. So I go, oh, my God, I'm going to be in Austin. I want to come see you in Austin.

He's like, great. How many tickets do you need? And I'm like, bro, I think it's just going to be me. Yeah, I'm fine with. I'm 49.

Also, there is a tinge of, like, am I a. I'm a dork? Like, I'm telling this guy Andrew, who I don't really know who naturally I would want to think I'm cool, like, nongamy. Roland solo to this company. Yeah, me and you talked about this.

Monica Padman
I think this is so interesting that you have a hang up about going somewhere by yourself. Well, what's interesting is I love going places by myself, so I love going out to eat by myself. I love going to the movies by myself. Something about letting this dude know that I didn't know a single person in Austin that I would be coming by myself felt pathetic. I don't.

I just really don't think it is at all. Okay, great. I'd like to think it wasn't, and he didn't think that, but I felt silly going, I think I'm coming by myself. But then I said, actually, if you can give me a plus one, I'll take it in case. Cause I do have some friends in Austin.

Dax Shepard
So I go, maybe I'll figure it out. And then I don't know why it just crossed my mind. I'm like, well, McConaughey lives in Austin. I've always wanted to hang out with him, just in real life. Yeah, I'm gonna like.

And I don't have his info, so I, like, ask Emma if she'll ask the publicist if he wants my email so I can invite him to this thing. So it goes through them, comes back, here's his email. I email him, hey, I'm gonna go see this comedian Andrew Schultz. He writes back, perfect. I'm, well, let me do it.

He's like, perfect. I'm gonna be landing in Austin Friday with the fam. Let's do it. Green light. Even gave me a green light.

So anyways, he says he's in. And then what was really funny is, as then the day approaches, it was, I had two tickets for us. And then it was like, hey, do you have seats? Like, of course I have seats. I invited you.

Like, can you imagine if I didn't even have seats? But then I was like, do you want to sit in the suite? I forget why he said we could sit in the suite. And I wrote like, hey, whatever you would want to do, I'm down. And then he's like, great, I'll pick you up.

So then it flipped to he was taking me on a date, which of course, cuz he's so alpha. He's like, listen, I'm gonna hang with you, but I'm taking you on a date. So I'll pick you up at your hotel. We'll sit in a suite, we'll do this right. Yeah.

So on the way to the. Well, perfect. I just gotta say, it's textbook McConaughey. I come out of the hotel, he's like, I'm down here. White Lincoln navigator.

Of course, of course. Brand. Mister Dax. Mister Dax, he's out of the navigator, just hanging. He's talking to valet dudes, he's talking.

He's such a mayor of wherever he's at. And I'm like, oh, this is great. On the way to the comedy show, he tells me that he basically built this arena we're going to. He put together ut with some investors. He worked with the architect.

He knows this thing, but he hasn't been. Oh, first time. He's like, he's like, he's really excited to go to this building he basically built, but he's never been to. So of course we arrive and it's like the whole staff knows. He's like, he's the founder of this thing.

And so, yeah, we go to this really fun suite that's got like a bar and food and it's awesome. Show goes on. It's great. He. Andrew is so fucking funny.

Monica Padman
Great. Oh my God. Is he good? I. Everyone should go see Andrew Schultz.

Dax Shepard
He's so fucking funny. And I bald. There was a moment. So he shows a video of his little baby he just had. And they went through IVF and the whole thing.

So it's, you know, it's the whole journey. Yeah. And it's this really beautiful video. And now I'm full crying and I'm on my first date with McConaughey. Sure.

And I'm just not sure how that's gonna go down. Like, oh, yeah, I'm crying. And by the way, I think I was making an effort not to. Sure. Couldn't help it.

Was just crying. Yeah, I think he caught a peep of that. I think he noticed I was. But he was respectful. He didn't say.

He didn't stand up and point at me. His little fucking win, crying because he likes babies. Anyways, he loved Schultz. He and I had a real good chuckle at the same line, which is always so fun when you realize you've been both deal with the same thing. At any rate.

Then we went backstage, hung with Andrew, a couple of the other comedians that were also great. And then. So it was. It was a good date. But we didn't, you know, we didn't get any, like a ton of one on one time.

And then we're leaving. He goes, should we grab a steak? And I'm like, fuck, yes, let's grab a steak. Yeah, your ten. And it's what you.

Exactly what I wanted to do with him. Yeah. So it's 1025. He asked his driver, Domingo. It's clearly his driver.

For a long time. He wasn't driving. No, no, no, no. He had a driver. He's like, where can we get a stake?

Where's open? And he's like, oh, I think we could make it to Lambert's. Go to Lambert's. It's closing. We walk in.

He is Mickey Mouse in Austin, if you like. He's like being with Mickey Mouse in Disneyland in Austin. He's the God of Austin. Sure. Staff is immediately blown away.

McConaughey's there. That's huge. Yeah, they are very. He'd never been there before. Like his spot.

It wasn't his spot. I don't know if he had ever been there or not. Okay. But it went from, God, I hope they let us in. Cause they're closing till everyone's very excited.

He was there. So great. It's the vibe we want. He orders for us again. I'm on.

Monica Padman
Wow. Yeah. I'm totally on a date. But that okay, here. I'm like a date from the fifties.

If someone ordered for me, I'd be like, no, order. And let me tell you, it felt great. Okay. Cause when we walked in, he's like, we gonna get some steak. You like Ribeye?

Dax Shepard
And I'm like, oh, fucking Ribeye's my steak. You like skirt steak? I'm like, yeah. He's like, you're just a guy. I like anything you like.

But it was all the stuff I like. He's like, you want salad? So he orders us a wedge to split. Okay. And a big side of coleslaw, which is my favorite.

No, no. Cause it was split before it arrived. But he also ordered a ton of coleslaw, which is my favorite thing to pair with meat. You've seen me do this a million times. So at any rate, these steaks were so fucking good.

The wedge was so good. And then we really had a ten out of ten date. That's great. We were screaming, laughing. I was calling him out for fun things that I thought we had in common.

And it was really. It was an enchanted night. And he dropped you off. Of course he dropped me off. We didn't kiss, but I would have.

Monica Padman
Yeah. Yeah. I think we wrapped things up around, like, midnight or something. Nice. Yeah, it was really fun.

That's really fun. I hope to God we get to do it again. I'm sure you will. Did he text you the next day and say, like, hey, that was fun? I text him I was thirsty.

Yeah, that's a little thirsty. Uh huh. What'd you say? That's where I am confident. I know the right thing to do is to wait for him to text me.

I'm just joking. But on a date. But no, I know there's rules. Yeah, there's rules. But that's where I am confident.

Dax Shepard
I go, oh, yeah, I know the rules. But I know this person likes me. I'm gonna. That's because men. I also think, like, yes, as a man, you're trying to navigate.

Like, there's all these weird. I'm just being honest. About what? The fear. Both of us growing up in the seventies, I think there's all these things that, like, you were afraid would make you gay.

Here's where I am very comfortable. Like, I will be the first man to act in a way that potentially scares other men. Okay. Yeah, right. I'll tell them I love them.

I'll tell them my fears and my feelings. Yeah. I'll tell them how good looking they are. Like, so I'm aware of those things. And I push past all those things.

Monica Padman
Yeah. So again, I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna tell him. I'm like, what a fucking great night that steak was. A party. Had so much fun.

Dax Shepard
Hope we get to do it again. Yeah. And he wrote back, like, comedy, great. Blah, blah, blah, great steak. 100% perfect night.

Right? Green lights. Green lights. Yeah, let's go again. All green lights.

Monica Padman
Okay. It's just funny because, again, male friendship versus female friendship is so fascinating. Cause we have none of this. Right. There is absolutely no fear of being too overly intimate.

Phil Heath
Yeah, I hate it. I'm telling you. I hate it. I know, I know. But I just think it's funny.

Monica Padman
Cause you keep referring to this as a date, which is funny. And I know you're saying that to be funny. Anytime I'm hanging out with a girlfriend or even meeting a new girlfriend, like Kate, like, hanging out with Kate, I would never refer to it as a date or even make the. It wouldn't even be a funny joke because, like, girls just hang out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All the time. Yeah, yeah. So it's just interesting. It is. It is.

Dax Shepard
We're trapped, but it's good. You're making moves. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fun.

It was really. I'm glad you had that experience, but. I will say it was a very interesting trip in total. Let's hear. You were in Austin for a full week.

Yeah, I was in Austin for a full week, which was scheduled to be Kristen flying in, and then her schedule changed, and then she had to cancel. So it was this very, very rare occurrence where I had basically a week to myself. I had, like, whatever the race to go to. I had a track day to go to. I had a podcast to record, and then I wanted to do this concert comedy show.

But other than that, it was just me hanging, going to martin Springs, and I don't think I'm fully synthesized what my conclusions about all of it were, but there were a lot of really interesting realities that simmered up. Here's what I kept getting confronted with is, like, I look forward to being by myself so much. Right? I don't have to deal with anybody's anything. I don't have to worry about anybody.

Whatever my schedule, I get to do whatever I'm in the mood to do. That sounds appealing. I get to eat and blah, blah, blah. All of it sounds so fun. And in my mind, it's so fun.

But then when I was doing it, I was like, eh, this isn't that fun. It's not very fun. It wasn't very fun, much of it. The motorcycle stuff was. The date with McConaughey was in the podcast.

But then the other five days. Not fun, huh? Not unfun. Yeah. But I just was like, hmm.

All these fantasies I have, like, oh, I like not working. I don't like not working. I need a break from my family. I don't really want a break from my family. It made me, like, think how much I.

Well, first is how much I enjoy my girls so much. Yeah. Like, oh, my God, so much. Yeah. To the point where I was like, yeah, I don't think I ever want to break ever again.

It's just very illuminating how much actual joy and fulfillment I get from that. And almost, I needed the absence of it to really kind of see how much I really need those little shits. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. But you don't feel that as much when you're, like, when you were on your trip with Aaron skiing or I.

Did you. Or did you feel that, like, in India? No, you're right. If I'm, like, sharing it with another friend, then, yeah, that's definitely. It's definitely different.

Monica Padman
Yeah. Being by yourself is a very specific feeling. Yeah. And it's funny because I have this, like, kind of romantic memory of having lived by myself for different periods of my life. And I did, in those times, get into fun routines I had.

Dax Shepard
And I remember being very joyous just living in the old house by myself, and, like, I found a way to love that. And so I think I have kind of some, you know, exaggerated nostalgia for that that I don't think I really have anymore. Yeah, that's great. And then I was just really also mulling over the future and work and my identity. It was a lot of time for me to just be hanging and thinking.

I think, in summation, like, a lot of the trip, I felt scared. I felt like. I guess it was. It was Jonah Nolan that was on, that was talking about how fragile our sense of self is. Yeah.

I was really feeling that fragility interesting. I was like, all these things that I kind of comfort myself with, which is like, I do this for a job, I make this amount of money. I'm here on these days. I'm blah, blah, blah, in the absence of all that, and I'm like, I wonder if I'm a guy who just goes to Barton springs, could I even live with that version of myself? And when.

When are we gonna figure out how to be fine? If that's all. Yeah. I am. Yeah.

Monica Padman
Well, everyone's gonna have to start doing this, because eventually, I mean, AI is gonna make all of us think about this. There won't be jobs. There will be. What is your life without these, like, identity markers? You're just a person.

Dax Shepard
I know. I wish I felt better about being just the person I am. Yeah, it. And I guess it made me aspire to. Yeah.

I kind of like. Yeah. There were a couple things I thought I would get more committed to now that I'm home. I think more of the Buddhism exploration. Yeah.

Something. There was something pivotal. That's great. I also guess I'm too. I'm also 49, halfway to 50.

And always these kind of decade markers end up being. You start thinking about. Yeah. And, like, where you want to go and what you want to do. That's good.

But your trip was super social, so you probably didn't go through any of that crazy thought. I do so many trips by myself. So much, but yours sounded just like a big party. This one was much more social than they normally are, but it wasn't better to me because it was. I don't know, I guess you just adapt to your surroundings and your circumstances.

Monica Padman
There are moments of longing and loneliness, but there are also lots of moments. I'm glad I'm by myself. I'm glad I'm making my own decisions. I'm glad I'm whatever. So it just goes both ways, I guess.

Like, whatever you're in, you want pieces of the other thing. But I guess that's sort of what you're saying is you. You're realizing you don't need those pieces. Yeah. I think my overall observation at the end of the week was none of my fantasies are as good as my real life.

I mean, that's literally the dream. Yeah. And I need to learn how to focus on that. That's what I realized. Like, I need to.

Dax Shepard
Yeah. I just need to be present in this current life I have on any given moment because it's fantastic. Yeah. And there's really nothing better. Yeah.

And there's no elation awaiting for me anywhere. And everything's groovy and, like, I don't know, maybe it's time to dial back the romantic meter a bit. Yeah, the, like, wanderlusty romantic meter. Yeah. Of, like, every adventure I need to be on and so.

But I don't know. I'll have another trip. It'll be different, and then I'll feel differently after that. But that's a good takeaway, I think. Or an interesting one.

Monica Padman
Yeah, I think that's good. You'll have to keep us updated on your evolving thoughts on it. Okay. Okay. This is for Phil Heath.

There's not very many facts. Sean Connery. What, did he win? Yeah, he competed in Mister Universe. Mister Universe, yes.

Dax Shepard
But he didn't win. He got third in the junior division in 1953. Okay, okay. Third in the junior division. So I maybe heightened that a little bit.

I think I claimed he won. Oh, well. And then van Damme. Yeah, Mister Belgium. He also competed, but then he was called that.

Mister Belgium. Yeah. Again, it sounds so much like Mister Belvedere. It does. Mister Belgium doesn't sound that sexy, does it?

No disrespect, but for some reason, even, like, mister Spain sounds pretty good, but Mister Belgium. Oh, really? Yeah. Which do you think sounds coolest? And what's just worse, I kind of.

Monica Padman
Like Belgium for a sounding country. Okay, Mister Belgium sounds, like, classy. It sounds a little classy, yeah. Okay. Oh, by the way, have we talked about the Jynx?

Dax Shepard
There's a part two. We haven't talked about it, but I saw that. Did you start it? It's on already. The first episode came out yesterday.

I haven't started it, but I'm so excited. I'm scared. I hope it captures some of the same magic as the first one. I know there's a little bit of me. I mean, I think it's gonna be great.

Monica Padman
I'm so, so excited. But I'm also, like, it was so perfect. You're scared to go back and do. You need, like, again, some of what you're talking about a little bit. Can't that just be perfect?

Dax Shepard
Right. Why revisit? Yeah. But I guess I know why. Cause of the trial, and then we want to know more, so it'll be.

Monica Padman
Yeah, I'm gonna start it. I forgot. But it would be easy to think that the first jinx was really made by the fact that he was saying. He was still on Mike saying all the burping. Yeah, it was so tremendous before that point.

It's a very well done, doc. Yeah. Cause the next one can't have that great moment that we all loved. But it was really stellar until then anyways. Yeah, he's great.

I mean, Andrew directed is amazing and makes great stuff, so it's gonna be good. Yeah, I might rewatch the first one. So good. We talked about watching Tyson fight, and it was weird. Ding, ding, ding.

Because when I was in, I went to. I also saw my parents on this trip, and my brother and my brother's friend was there for a lunch, and him and my dad got in this really long conversation about boxing, which was. And your dad likes boxing? Yes. I mean, he.

I don't know if he likes it. He just, like, knows. Do you feel like, rob, all boys are supposed to know just a little bit about boxing? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I think we're supposed to know.

Dax Shepard
I know kind of a lot about boxing, but makes sense because I'm transitioning. To UFC a little bit now. Yeah, I think now it's all about UFC, which I'm largely in the dark. Well, there was a big fight, a big boxing match on. On Saturday with Tyson and.

Monica Padman
No, not with Tyson, but there was a big one. Oh, okay. Because Tyson's gonna fight. I know. Jake Paul.

Yeah. But it's an exhibition, so it's not a real fight. Yeah. I'm just like, what's going on. I wish it were a real fight.

Dax Shepard
It'd be really fun. It was. It's not. It's an exhibition. Oh, well, I want to have him on.

Me, too. Maybe he'll come on before the fight. Or after. Or during. I'm sure he could do it during.

He'd be fine to handle. He could call. We talk a little bit about how young people aren't getting married. You know, as we already. We already know this, but, yeah, it's just true.

Monica Padman
It's declining like crazy. You think that's good or bad? I mean, I think for population it's bad. Yeah. But I guess.

I don't know. I mean, we've already theorized on this many times, but who was I just talking to? Oh, Ange, while we were at Barton Springs. Yeah. Just the future leading towards more and more people live by themselves.

Dax Shepard
A solitary life. I just. Something fundamentally about us being such social animals feels like maybe that's not the direction. I don't feel that I live a solitary life. Right.

Monica Padman
I have a very social life, but it's not cohabitated. Whether there's a partner there or not, I don't think you have to. I mean, there's missing out on a level of intimacy. So that's sad, I guess, but it's not, like, bad for the world. I don't even mean.

Dax Shepard
You know what's funny is I'm not even thinking about, actually, if I'm being honest about the solitariness of it. I just think it's. People are probably at their best if they're forced to compromise a lot. You are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

True. I mean, and in some ways, everyone is. But I think there are a lot of places in life to have that work, and there's a bunch. And I think some people need to be pushed there a little more than others. Yeah, I need a lot of that, I guess.

Monica Padman
But also. Yeah, yeah, it is important. It's an important skill, but it's an important skill, I think, for being connected and being social. So it all sort of tying back into the same thing. I'm very locked in my own experience, which is, like, when I get everything I want, not happy, for sure, and when I am regularly inconvenienced by other people, I'm a lot happier.

Dax Shepard
So that's the perspective I'm trapped in. Yeah, I think that's. I just wonder how common that is. I mean, so we know from a million people on the show how important social connection is in life. And if you are someone who's just unwilling to compromise in general.

Monica Padman
You probably won't have any at all, whether they're a romantic partner or a friend. Yeah. So, yeah, it is important.

That's it. That's it. Mm hmm. Yeah. Bodybuilding.

Bodybuilding. You know, when we were recording this, halfway through, I thought, what is bodybuilding? Sure. And I don't know that I know. Well, it's just putting as much muscle mass on a human as you can.

Right. But then the competitions are just, like, looking at their bodies, right? Yes. And if you were to watch this doc again. Cause I watched it with Lincoln, and then maybe halfway through, I think Kristen joined, and so Lincoln didn't want to watch it.

Yeah. Bodybuilding. But of course, it's a very well made doc. And you get into the competition, but you would be able to pick who the winner was. That's probably what you're having a hard time imagining.

Dax Shepard
Right? Like, how can you tell what's. They're just all enormous, but you can see that, like. Like, oh, they're enormous, but it's. It is like the muscle chart in the doctor's office.

Like, I can see every single muscle. And then this other person. Yeah, they're bigger, but I can't really see all the stuff. Or other shoulders look way wider than their butt. And their legs, like, you do start seeing, like, this proportional thing that.

That becomes kind of obvious. And then, like, how cut and defined they are becomes really obvious. And weirdly, I would say all the ones that he won, he was the clear one. Winner. Yeah.

Monica Padman
That's so crazy. It is. But also, I guess I thought maybe bodybuilding had something to do with, like, during the competition, you lifted stuff. Oh, but it's not. It's just a full physical appearance.

Dax Shepard
All aesthetic. Yeah, 100% aesthetic. Pretty fascinating. Not that anyone will care, but if there's any boys in the audience that are like, they're like me, like you watch them on tv, they look crazy, but they also are next to each other, so they look, I don't know. A lot of them.

Monica Padman
It's in context. I was saying that what's crazy is, in the dock, the rock looks like normal size, which is really interesting. But for my friends who lift weights and are into this stuff, when they've said, like, what was it like being around Phil? It's the tricep. This is what you just do not see on a real human being.

Dax Shepard
I don't know if you noticed it, but when he was, like, talking, this chunk of muscle under his arm was the size of my thigh. Right. You just don't even see someone's tricep. Yeah. Yeah.

Like that was one of their is like, okay, well, that is something that is like 18 standard deviations above a normal. That's where it got obvious. Like, what's the difference between them and just a very built big guy you might see at a. At the beach. Yeah.

And it's that. It's like you don't ever see someone with a tricep that big. Size of a thigh. Interesting. Well, no, you don't.

You really don't. You normally don't. Of all the sports, man, it's all day. It's a full dedication. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, just. I don't know. Other sport has the eating component in the way that this one does. Yeah. Or it's like you had, like they said they're eating 7 hours a day.

And it has to be such an enormous amount of protein. And like, it. No one can stomach it. It's just impossible. Yikes.

So they're doing the activity 3 hours a day, but then they're also eating 7 hours a day. I just don't know. What other endeavor is that all consuming. It's wild. It's pretty wild.

You want a knee jerk? Say it's insane. Right? I mean, I have my own opinion. Yeah.

Because when you watch an Olympic skier, you're like, well, I guess that has the purpose of going down this hill very quickly. Or because there's some ostensible purpose to it. Doing a 1480 out of a half pipe 25. But all of it's completely abstract and useless. Like no one needs to do three flips off the top of a half pipe lip.

Monica Padman
Yep. But for some reason those pursuits seem completely normal. Right. Or more normal. They feel like.

Dax Shepard
I think these people still deal with the fact that the average person thinks they're freaks. Sure. Yeah. When it is identical to all these other things, it's just like the outcome's different. You're kind of trying to value outcome, but all the outcomes are pretty useless in real life.

Monica Padman
I guess so. Yeah. One feels crazier, not crazy. It feels.

Dax Shepard
Oh, I have a hunch of what could be triggering for you. It seems to epitomize masculinity. And just masculinity in general is kind of a scary. No, I actually find it not masculine at all. The obsession with food and body and looking the very specific it actually, to me, I don't feel that.

Monica Padman
Okay. But I think devoting so much to just having people look at you, I guess cause that's what I was like. I thought you were doing something. Feels a little shallow, I guess. Well, the competition is, like, endless flexing in all these poses.

Dax Shepard
It is hours of demonstration. You would be a ballet dancer. Like, here's the routine. Watch it with your eyes. Hope you enjoy.

Monica Padman
Yeah, it's all made up. All this value's made up. Yeah. But it was. It's interesting.

It's definitely a world I don't know a lot about or know anything about. Yeah, obviously, I didn't even know what it was. Yeah, yeah. Really? I think it's still fringe, and I think without Schwarzenegger, it would even be back, like, still in the forties, where people really were like, oh, they're freaks.

Yeah, yeah, probably. He helped, I think, normalize it. It is very interesting. Of all the things that the aliens are watching the monkeys do, they're like, wow, these monkeys are trying to get three times the size of the other. Monkeys, but then to just go, like, stand on a platform for the other.

Dax Shepard
Monkeys to look at and go, like, oh, my God. Right? Pretty nuts. All righty. All right, love.

Monica Padman
All right, love.

Dax Shepard
All right, love.

Monica Padman
All right, love.

Phil Heath (professional bodybuilder)

Primary Topic

Episode Summary

Main Takeaways

Episode Chapters

1. Introduction to Phil Heath

2. Transition to Bodybuilding

3. Challenges and Triumphs

4. Philosophies on Training and Life

5. Looking Forward

Actionable Advice

About This Episode

People

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Transcript