Tell Me More: First Love, Meds + Recovery

A
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Welcome back to we can do hard things. We recently marked three years of we can do hard things. Do you believe that? Three three years we've been doing this podcast. I can't believe it.

B
It's been an awesomely beautiful. It's a lot of work. That it is. We thought a fun way to celebrate would be to revisit our live podcast recording from our one year anniversary when 15,000 of you joined us in real time. That was so fun.

C
So this is the one where Abby and I had just returned from our first friend trip with our dear friends Alex and Jody. And we shared Alex's brilliant preemptive postmortem strategy for gatherings. You guys have to hear this one. I mean, speaking of, we hope that you enjoyed hearing from our wise wonderful friend Alex Heddison. Yesterday.

I just loved having her so much. That was one of my favorite episodes. And lucky for all of us, Alex is coming back tomorrow. For the second part of that soul shifting conversation today, we also get into where we each were in our personal journeys. Amanda talks about starting medication.

I share my first steps up from the landing after an eating disorder relapse, which actually was before my anorexia diagnosis. Wild. And Abby connects with her new purpose post retirement. It's been so interesting and fun for us to look back on these moments that we've shared with you and reflect on how much has changed. I mean, we're just different people now.

I know. I wish everyone had a podcast. Well, actually, I think everyone does have a podcast. But it is nice because in the normal day to day, I just feel like I'm making no progress ever. I just every day feel like I'm fucking starting over and clueless.

But when you actually see Mark, you can see progress. You really can. I know that you're actually trying to. Skip the Macaroni grill story in this one. We also highlight the story of when Abby met her first love.

And Macaroni Grill, she was just trying. To skip over that part because I'm. Speaking of not making progress. I'm still a bitter enough person to be jealous of the 16 year old waitress. She was 18.

She was 18. Yeah, whatever. Okay, Stephanie. Teenage Stephanie. Stephanie.

Hi, Stephanie. Hope you're well. Anyway, lastly, if you don't want this particular conversation to end, and you probably do, but if you don't, go back and listen to episode 113 for the continuation of this talk when we take live pod squad questions. That was so. We have to do that again soon.

B
Yeah. All right, you all, thank you for doing life with us. Let's jump in, everybody except for Stephanie. Go.

D
Hello, everybody. We've made it. We're doing it. They're here. They're here.

C
Am I here? You're here. I'm here. Abby's here. I think like 15,000 of our friends are here.

D
This is so exciting. I had this whole thing planned to say in the beginning, and then pod squad, you should know that we have spent the last 15 minutes just reading the chat, reading all of you saying that you showed up here because you show up each week and encouraging each other and loving on each other, and it is really deeply moving. I told Abby I am having. I don't know. There's not a lot of times where you really feel the beauty and importance of something, and I really just felt it.

B
Can I. Can I tattle on you for a second? What about what? That you would be a difficult teammate of mine to enter a big event, a big game. Why?

Because you just came up to me and said, feel how sweaty my hands are. And, like, your pregame. Your pregame self is not a pregame self that I would want to, like, go try and win an Olympic gold medal with. No, I'm going to thank God. It's, like, a big problem for you that you're supposed to, like, tamper down and basically hide to go do a big thing.

She can't hide. So, folks, we are sitting here in Glennon's sweat. If you guys can see, I mean, you can't. Okay, okay. I'm dripping, dripping with sweat.

C
I think that sweat, for me, is just a signal. It's, like, sacred. It's like a signal of something important. You can turn anything into a freaking beautiful thing. Sweat.

Even baptism. I love it. I love it. And we should call out that poor Abby is a little under the weather. Her voice sounds extra, extra octavi.

D
Saucy, saucy. Extra saucy. And octavi. So. But we're one year old.

C
We are one year old. What? We have begun talking and walking. Yes. We are one year old.

First of all, I just want to say thank you to all of you for being this. For being this, I don't know, this project that we have loved so much over the last year. I have been doing some form of, I don't know, public idea ing for 15 years, and I have never cared so much or been so grateful for or felt like anything that I've ever done besides together rising. But it has been as important to me. I feel nervous to say this, because I don't think you're supposed to say this, but I feel like it's really important.

Every time one of these conversations ends and I hear people talking about the person who they've just met and the idea that just got put out into the world, it feels like, wow. It's like this ripple that's actually doing something important in the world. Yeah. You know, for us, too. What I hear people saying about it is what I feel like it's done for me personally, too, as just a person in the pod squad and thinking about things.

D
And so it's very important to me, too, as a fellow pod sweater. I was very nervous before we were coming on here. Very nervous. And I was reading the chat and then was reading it and everything they were saying. I was like, I want to get there.

It's like all our friends are over there. I know. That's what we. Before we go on pod squad, when I was talking about how much I was sweating and how I was about to have a heart attack, my sister said, okay, these are our friends. Okay?

C
They want to listen to us. It's not like we're going to pitch on shark tanks. These are our friends. Yeah. There's 15,464 of you who are watching right now, which is so amazing.

B
And I just also want to say thank you to odyssey and Cadence 13, who are sponsoring this live event, and then all of the people who are part of creating this podcast behind the scenes. Dina, Allison. Lauren. Dina, Allison and Lauren. Dina, Alison, and Lauren.

C
I mean, that's one of the things. That's one of the reasons I love this so much. Our friend Alex was over. Put a pin in that. We have a friend.

I'm gonna tell you about it later, okay. And we were talking about this podcast, and she said, do you believe that this is what the world has arranged for you? That you get to do this thing where you're talking about ideas that you love and light you up, and you get to do it with the two people who make you feel most safe on either side of you? And then you get to do it with these women, Dina, Alison, and Lauren, who you deeply respect and love and are the people you most want to talk to every single day. Anyway, just.

Thanks. I mean, everything sucks so often, and so it's just really important sometimes to notice what doesn't suck. And to me, this. Isn't that a Mary Oliver poem? Yeah, it's a Mary Oliver.

D
What doesn't suck? That's my poetry for the day. Notice what doesn't suck in the midst of noting everything that does. All right, so, one of the things we decided to do today is sometimes we bring up things about our lives in an episode. Sometimes.

C
Right. And then, like, sometimes it can be a dramatic thing or a big thing, but then the next week, we're like, we want to talk about something else, and then we don't give an update about that thing, which, judging by the people who stopped me on my walks, is troublesome. Occasionally, people want to know how things are going, and that makes us feel actually quite loved. Yeah. So we thought we could start with kind of general life updates, like, how we are for real.

Like, how are you for real? So I wish I could ask all of you, although I did see one person, right. I've been chasing pink bunnies all damn day, and I'm so excited to get here for the steak. Forget it. With all the poets in the chat.

D
I know. Sister Amanda? Yes? Can you tell us how you are for real? How I am for real?

Well, I do have a little update of sorts. Some of you might know me from things such as overwhelm and general ragey mess and things such as this. I do have a little update from you, and that is that I started, for the first time in my life, two medications, an antidepressant and an anti anxiety. Uh, the generic of Lexapro and the generic of wellbutrin is what I'm on. And, um, it is the first time, when I first got sober, I took the wellbutrin for a few weeks, but that wasn't exactly, like, a controlled experiment, because so much was upside down that it.

I couldn't tell if anything was happening, so I went off. And that was two and a half years ago. But a few months ago, I started them. And it happened because it was the second appointment I had had with my doctor in which I demanded to have my hormone levels checked to confirm that I am obviously perimenopausal, because that is the only possible explanation for my vortex of rage and overwhelm. And she had to deliver, for the second time in a year, the tragic news that I was, in fact, not perimenopausal.

C
It's like that quote. It's a little change on that quote. It's like, before you decide perimenopausal, make sure you're not just, in fact, an asshole. Exactly. Right.

D
Exactly. Which I thought was what she was saying when I told her all my symptoms. And she said, you're not that. But then she says, you're not perimenopausal. But have you ever considered mental health medication?

Which I was like, good call. Because obviously people don't continue to show up and demand these tests if maybe they're just fine. And so I thought about it, and at first, I just always thought that this is just what life was. Like, this chronic state of being utterly freaking unmanageable. I felt like I was walking around like one of those, like, resistance bands, but, like, fully stretched out resistance band that, like, it anytime would just be subject to, like, snap and potentially hurt myself or someone else.

C
So, good times. Yeah. So I thought to myself, like, what if how I've always felt isn't how I always have to feel, and that maybe it's possible to feel better than I feel. And so I did start the meds, and as of like, a week ago, I realize they might be working a little bit. I mean, I'm nervous to get excited, but I feel like I'm still as intolerable to myself and others as I've always been, but only, like, 99% of my usual level of intolerable, which I guess that 1% is significant because I feel way less miserable.

D
So that's a very. That's an exciting thing. I mean, it's been a week, right? Jury's still out. A lot of people have conflicted feelings.

C
Do you have conflicted feelings? I don't have the same conflict that I hear a lot of people having. I hear a lot of people talk about. You know, I feel like I'm weak or I'm failing or I wish I could feel this way without medication. And I don't have that conflict at all.

D
Like, if I could take a drug that would allow me to speed read or color my roots with less frequency or clean out my attic, I would take all of those drugs immediately and without hesitation. I'm not worried about that part of it. I think my conflict has to do with this good news and bad news about the misery piece of it, because I feel like, what if? Then I ignore something that I should be miserable about. Yeah, I get that.

Recently, with my therapist, we were grappling with, trying to figure out for, like, the 100th session why in the world I'm so bothered by so many things that seemingly have only become struggles for me in the last, wait for it, two and a half years. Okay, so I am a very smart person, and I should be thoroughly embarrassed about the amount of sessions that we spent trying to figure out, why is everything suddenly making me absolutely insane? And then recently, we were in a session, and I just casually mentioned to her, like, oh, well, when I stopped drinking two and a half years ago, and she was like, come again? Like, you did what? When?

Like, we've been trying to figure this out for so long. And that's when I realized that, oh, right, I had been drinking to take the edge off for years, and then suddenly I was just all edge all the time. Right? And everything makes me want to scream into my pillow or hit someone.

So I think there's that part of me that does believe that you have to be really miserable to change things that need to be changed. And so, good news, bad news. Like, yay, I'm less miserable. But I also have this little worry that taking the edge off with meds might make me miss change that I. Need to have in my life.

C
Interesting. Yep. But also that worry just might show that I'm an ideal candidate for continuing to take anti anxiety, since I'm having anxiety that I'm going to miss out of the anxiety that I need. So, I don't know. Thank you for sharing that.

It's really brave and awesome. You know, a lot of people won't share about their medication and for all different reasons. I think it's cool that you did. It's interesting because in a weird way, it feels familiar. It's like, I thought when I quit drinking that, like, the drinking was my problem.

And then when I quit drinking, I realized that the drinking was just my bad solution to my problem, which was anxiety and depression. It for sure runs in our family, and the drinking was, like, self medicating the problem. But what I wonder is if you're going to find out that your problem, your misery, could be mental health stuff, it might not be your life. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

D
Yes, I do. Your problem might be this condition that makes you hate your life. That's what I wonder. When I think about people in our family or people in other generations, people didn't have access to mental health care and drugs and all of it. If you have a mental health problem and you don't have access to working on it, you, of course, just think your life is terrible.

B
Yeah. When it's really the way your mind is perceiving your life because of stuff going on. Right. And it's also even worse than that because, you know, intellectually, your life isn't terrible. So you're like, I'm just the kind of wretched asshole that can't enjoy what is clearly a beautiful life.

C
So you blame it on your character. It's your character. Right? Right. Yeah.

You have a good life. I just kind of. And I just hate it. So I'm a complete. Yeah, I'm in.

Jerk. Well, I'm excited. I'm proud of you for trying and not sticking with the martyrdom, you know? Yeah. Bad gem.

D
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C
What about you, babe? Well, I think one of the things about this year that has blown my mind is I didn't know the three of us could actually get closer. I think that the fact that we've been in many ways forced to communicate about really, really intense, personal, universal stuff has totally transformed the three of our relationship. You know, I've witnessed you sister, get way more open and honest about your life. And, Glennon, you walking through certain things in this past year has just been unreal.

B
And I think it's made me feel, I think, more attachment to both of you in a lot of ways. And also it's mind boggling because we just do this every couple of days in our own homes, and then it goes out to those who are listening, the millions of listeners. And it just boggles my mind that something that can feel so personal to us can also be universal in some ways. And I think the most important thing that has happened to me this year that I didn't think it was going to ever happen, is the purpose that this podcast has given me. I played soccer for so many years, and I really loved representing this country.

I really loved looking up into the stands and seeing little girls and boys cheering for us. I felt like I had real purpose. It was, like, instilled in this thing that I just happened to be really good at. Like, truly, I felt so lucky, felt like my life was completely aligned. Everything was, for the most part, was wonderful in that way.

And I just worried that I would never be able to have that same similar kind of purpose for the rest of my working life. I mean, having a family and being married to you is obviously purpose driven, but those are very different than the working world, and I want to have my own purpose in that way. And so now when I'm out in the road, when I'm walking, whatever, people don't come up to me and say, hey, I'm such a huge fan. You know, all those soccer games and the wins and the medals and the awards, it's like, oh, my gosh, your podcast 100% of the time now. And I don't know, I think that this is absolutely going to more people than women's soccer did when I played back in the day.

But this kind of purpose has made me feel rooted in a way that I missed from my playing days. And it makes me feel like that purpose was leading me to this purpose. Remember when you. I was just thinking about when you went out to dinner with Kara recently? Yeah.

C
And the person came up to you at dinner. Yes. And then what they said. And then what Kara said. Yeah.

B
So one of the waiters came up to me and he said, you know what? I just wanted to thank you. Your podcast has really helped my family deal with my sobriety. I'm two years sober, and my mom listens to y'all's podcast every week. And you've given her language and an understanding and a way of talking about sobriety that doesn't feel so mysterious or shameful or.

You've really helped me process my sobriety with my family. And he walks away. Kara, my friend, looks at me and she's just. She's like, what does that feel like? And she was her friend from soccer.

Yeah. And then she said, how does it feel to have that soccer not even be your most important work? Yeah. It's just. It's so sweet.

It's so amazing. I think it is really very special, and it's not ever lost on us. We walk around every few hours, and we're like, I can't believe that we get to work with each other like this, and we love it. Yeah. Very cool.

C
And one of the coolest things that I think happened this year is our life has changed for you because of your experience in bathrooms. This is when I feel like, yeah, my theory of just say it and tell it and let people hear it and let them love you about it will fix everything was proven to you. Tell the pod squad. Okay, so episode 20, when I was talking about the public restroom situation that I find myself in every time I go into a women's restroom, and people always mistake me for being a dude. And they always ask me, like, there's always, like, that I can tell the surprise, like, do they think they've made the mistake or.

B
And it makes me feel, almost every time makes me feel so horrible. Yeah, it's rough. It's really bad. She'll hold it for, I mean, it's like, she will not in an airplane. Oh, wait, she will not get on the airplane because airplane bathrooms are non gendered.

C
Right. Right. So anyways, long story short, I share this on the pod squad, and reading some of the comments from some of the folks who share this experience with me has completely changed my interactions with public restrooms. Now I'm like, hey, I'm not the only one that this is happening to that makes me feel more powerful and walking into it. And you know what?

B
If somebody is mistaken, then they're mistaken. That's their problem, not mine. I don't have to hire my voice because that was always a thing. She'd be like, hi, hi, hi.

This podcast isn't ever going to be just us going outward, right? It's always, we're reading all the comments and hearing and reading the response from some of those who might present in similar ways that I present outwardly completely helped me resolve in so many ways those public restroom incidents that happen. It's so cool because it's a big deal. It's like nothing changed. I was like, what's different to her?

C
Nothing. Experience is still exactly the same. Reaction's still exactly the same. But she's like, walking into the bathroom is fine. Just knowing she's not alone.

B
That's right. I'm less alone. It's belonging. Because the rejection of the bathroom is like, you don't belong here, you don't fit. And then the hearing, all of the people say, me too.

D
Me too. Is, oh, you fit here. Like, there is a fit. There is a belonging. That was, this other thing was trying to say, you would never have, you know.

B
Yes, honey, what about you? I think that probably the one that people would maybe want to hear about with me is several episodes ago, I shared that around the holidays, I had a relapse with my eating disorder. So for any newbies trigger warning for eating disorder discussion. I have struggled with bulimia since I was ten years old and got sober from bulimia when I got pregnant with my son, who is now 19. But still, food is weird and hard, and it's much different than booze in that booze can be avoided, and food is something I still have to deal with all the time.

C
And so has always been a struggle, really. But I've been able to behaviorally control it, even if my brain was weird about it. And then around the holidays, I lost the ability to behaviorally control it. So we talked about that. It was really important to me to talk about it.

Very important. And it wasn't just about service. I felt like I was standing up for little weird me. Like, she gets to talk, too, you know? I'm not sure what her deal is all the time.

She might not be completely coherent, but she gets to speak, too, because part of this weird movement is because of her. Right. So that's kind of like one of those weird things that when the weird go off this, I'm gonna be like, what was that about that thing that I said there? But that's. That totally makes sense to me.

It does. It's not like you only bring the friend out to go to the party that's shiny and cute and, you know, everyone will laugh at their jokes. You're like, I'm bringing my weird ass awkward friend with me because she is loyal, and I don't care if you get her or not. She's coming with me. Yes, like that.

Or when she's sad, when we talk about family or friends, and everyone's like, somebody goes through a hard time, and then we're only happy and talk about her when she's better. Oh, she's great now. She's fine. But, like, what about when she was weird and down and like, why don't we talk about that time that's like, when we need people talk, you know, around more. Yeah, you brought your little weird.

Little weird self. My little weird self. And that's fine. Got to talk on that episode. Anyway, so the way I described it was that I was on the landing, which meant that we had gone for a walk, and there was a large staircase, and I felt like I was going to have to start climbing again.

Back to health, back to recovery, back to whatever this next part of my mental health journey was calling me towards. But I was too tired to do anything about it yet, and I didn't know what to do next. And so I just decided that's fine. Telling the truth about it is enough. It's like ground zero.

I'm just going to wait there and await further instructions. From whom do these instructions come? I don't know. Whatever you want to call it. God, spirit, yourself.

I don't know. Sometimes the next thing just shows itself. So the problem wasn't I just stayed on that landing, y'all, for months. Like, I went and I did nothing. Everyone saw some crosswords on this landing.

Yeah, my mom would be like, so are we gonna, like, are? And I don't know. I'm just still on the landing, still knowing I'm screwed and doing nothing about it, but not going back down, either. All right. And then we actually went away for a few days with the girls for their spring break, and we were at this place that had this little, teeny yoga class in the morning, and I hadn't done it forever, and then it was free, so I went.

It's like a service they were giving. And Abby came with me the first couple mornings, and then I started going the last two mornings by myself. And I don't talk about yoga a lot because I get nervous about the appropriation of it at all and all. And I don't know really how to talk about it. But there is something that's really important for me there.

And I came home, and I signed up at this little, teeny local yoga studio and started going. And I had this one morning where I was sitting, like, really close because the room was smushy, and I was sitting close to the mirror, and I just was, like, looking at my own eyes, and I was like, oh, yeah. Like, I just had this moment where I was just looking in my own eyes, and I felt, like, really connected and safe with myself. And then I started the class, and I don't do hard yoga, so it's kind of easy yoga. And the woman was saying all these really nice things, and it was just so gentle.

It's something that I can do in my body that makes me feel very loved inside my body. Don't know how to describe it, other than I'm not producing anything. I'm not really not pushing myself. It's just like, oh, I'm in here. You know?

We did an incredible episode recently with Cole Arthur Riley, and she said something about how women get shamed out of our body young. And then there's this dissociation where we almost leave our bodies. It's almost like a defense mechanism. And then we end up looking at ourselves like, am I in here? Like, not even living inside our own home.

And she said something that, like, distance creates disdain. And sitting in yoga classes, it makes me feel the opposite of that. It makes me feel very close to myself. And there's something about that closeness that makes me feel loved. Like, if distance creates disdain, then it makes sense that the closer you are in there, that's what you are.

It's okay. It's love when you're with yourself, you know? I love that. I just wish that all yoga classes just was only shavasana. Exactly.

B
Because, I mean, you said that I only do easy. I just don't think that there is such a thing as easy yoga. Like, yeah, I know. It's so hard. There's something I know deeply about it that is so important, but I also just can't get over how hard it is.

C
But this was one of my things, and I'm really excited about this. Okay. So a meme saved me with this part. A meme? Yeah.

I didn't want the challenge of doing anything hard in those rooms. That's not what I was there for. And so I saw this, like, meme on thing, and it said, this is. Most people think showing up is, like, 100%, 100%. It was like, all these pie charts.

100%, 100%. But what showing up really is. And then it had a bunch of different pie charts, and one was 10%, one was 30%, one was 70%, one was 1%. Like, showing up has nothing to do with being 100% every time you show up. Actually, a lot of times, you're gonna suck.

You're gonna do barely anything. I have had so many yoga class where I've done barely anything, and every time I think, oh, my God, you're so awesome. This is showing up. Yeah. And so something's happening.

I feel like when I go there, I'm just reconnected with myself, and it's like having a meeting with myself each morning. That's quality time. And then this wild thing happened, which is that I threw Alex through our friend and then through a friend that you met. We ended up going back to recovery meetings recently in our little area, and that was a little bit scary for me and has turned out to be really, really important. So my update is that I'm having meetings with myself each day.

Quality time with myself, and quality time with other really honest people who all bring their weird selves. Yes. Yes. That's what it is. Bringing it back.

I love that they bring their weird selves. Right? Nobody's there, like, well, actually, I'm optimizing I'm just crushing it in all areas. So those two things are helping. And that's my update.

So I think I'm like starting. I'm off the landing again. Good job. Thanks. So wonderful to hear.

Thanks for listening to my update. Thank you for sharing that.

D
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Okay, so we have this new segment is what in the pod squad? The pod. What's it called? Podcast world. We call it a segment, and for.

D
The first time tonight, we've been calling it since 3 seconds ago, a segment. It's what we in the business call a segment. And what we decided to do is that we kept getting a 7 trillion emails that would reference one of the episodes and it would say, can you tell me more about. Can you tell me more about? And would just be like one little thing that we said in an episode.

C
And then they would say, tell me more. We kept seeing the words tell me more over and over again.

Welcome to our first tell me more segment. Oh, my God, that was so embarrassing. Okay, that's what I was going for. I think your weird self is still here. Tell me more segment.

D
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to disparage your words. It's too soon. It was too soon. No, no, no. Okay.

All right. So, Abby, we have one for you, which I find so fun. The most frequent question that we get for you to tell me more, Abby, is folks wanting to know more about macaroni gates. Macaroni Gate. Macaroni gate.

So this, for folks who will remember, was episode 26. It was on sexual desire. And it was where Abby discovered her simmering sexual desire for the very first time at the most obvious location, out to dinner with her parents at the macaroni. Macaroni grill. Okay, so this is a question for you, Abby, one of many from Lori in Utah.

It's about the finger grays heard around the world. Did the server intentionally swipe your hand with the crayon, or was that purely accidental? Did the relationship go anywhere? Okay, okay. You have to tell them the story, though, because some people might not know the macaroni grill story.

B
All right, so, honey, can I tell the story? Yes. All right. You're not gonna get weird? I always get weird.

Yeah, you do. But what she means is jealous. I get really jealous. Even of the 16 year old waitress at the Macaroni grill. She was 18, by the way.

C
She was 18. Anyways, so, you know at the macaroni grill where they write their names when crayon. During this moment, the waitress, she wrote her name upside down. And I thought that that was super cool. And when she put an older woman down, her hand happened to touch my pinky finger.

B
Now, I believe that this was an accident, and I don't know if I told the rest of the story on. Please do. So what ended up happening is I realized that I was in a very sexy turtleneck and corduroy pants. My school uniform. Catholic school uniform.

I was eating dinner with my parents. I apologize, mom, for this story while you're listening. And I went home. And I was struck at how this was the very first conscious, like, real. Everything else was subconscious at this point.

This is a conscious thought. Like, I like this girl, and I have to do something about it. So I went home. I sat in front of my huge old school apple computer with, like, dial up modem, you know, like Internet, like that weird noise.

And I typed up a letter and I sent it. I typed up an anonymous letter because in my hometown, people knew my name. And I was afraid, because this is in the late nineties, gayness was not accepted publicly or even privately in many places still that way. And so I wrote an anonymous letter, and I sent it to the Macaroni grill. I figured out somehow during that dinner that her name.

I figured out what her first and last name was. Well, she wrote it on the table. She wrote it upside down, so you had to turn around the mat. But I figured out what. She's a detective.

While I'm writing, I figured out what her last name name was because I didn't say, you know, name. Waitress. All right, all right, all right. So you sent it to the Macaroni girl. So I sent it to the macaroni girl.

And in the letter, I said, basically, it was like, I have a crush on you. And I don't know what to do about it because I'm a girl, and I've never been with a girl. And I don't know if you have. You have feelings for girls in that way, basically. Like, do you like me?

Yes or no? If you do, call me. Find my name in the. There's like a flow chart. Do you like girls?

C
Yes. No, if yes, if no, please shred. But she didn't sign her name. She said, if you know who this is, call my house. I had to believe that she was feeling the exact same way.

B
This is the romanticism inside of me. Like, if she. If I felt this way, she rush. Somebody'S finger with a crayon unless you throw it. Come on.

C
Come on. So I sent this to the Macaroni grill, and I said, look me up in the phone book and call me if you know who this is. And she freaking called me. And by the way, home phone, we don't have cell phones now. This is calling Nana's house.

B
Yes. Okay. Is Abby there? She called and I answered. And she kind of stammered through the first couple of seconds.

Hi, this is so and so from the Macaroni grill. And I was like, hi. Because I don't know at this point if she's checked yes to any of those boxes. I don't know. I mean, I know that she's called.

D
This could be a restraining order coming. Exactly. Yeah. I just don't know. And so I do feel sad that I was.

B
I held out for a little bit longer than I should have. Cause she was like, did you send me a letter? And I was like, a letter? I know. She messed with it.

A letter. And like 2 seconds later, I was like, okay, I sent you the letter. She said, so then what happened? Okay, so then I, that day went and spent the rest of the day with her. And they kissed.

Oh, my God. On the lips. And then Abby thought that she. Today, today, Abby says to me, I thought I was gonna be with her for the rest of my life. I did.

I swear to you. But didn't you date for a really long time? No. Maybe like six months or eight. Cause I had to go to college a few months later, right.

I literally met her at the end of my senior year in high school. And I left for college a few months later, and then we broke up a few months after that because. And it was secret. Had to be a secret right now. It was totally secret.

Nobody knew. Like, my very, very closest, best friends knew.

I told them right before they went to college. I think it's so. I think it's actually quite brave and beautiful. I love the macaroni grill story. Both of you are bad.

C
You have this. You just went for it. You're very confident. God, so confident. Imagine that.

Imagine that. I don't know. I mean, I think if I were to get really honest, like, the couple of years before, I probably had crushes on people that I just never was able to be conscious about. Yeah. You know, the crayon.

Put it over there. Background, and Grail will bring you into consciousness. Yeah.

D
Sister, have questions that people had for you. Oh, tell me more. Okay. Tell me more. For Glennon, people wanted to talk a lot about episode 64 and 65, where you were trying to figure out what friendship is.

And this is very sweet from Kristen from New Jersey. She wrote this advice and question for you because you had asked for tips. Like, if anyone knows what the hell friendship is, please, you know, do write us a letter. Yes. She said, find people who love themselves the way you want to love yourself and then trust yourself to fall in love with them a little.

C
Find people who love themselves the way you want to love yourself and then. Trust yourself to fall in love with them a little. That's really beautiful. Cause you always think, find people who love you. Right?

Yeah. So finding people who love themselves is really. Yeah. Because that's the kind of caliber of person that will make you the kind of caliber person. Right.

D
Okay. And then she says, also, did you ever take that trip with the new friend couple? How did that go? Yes. Yes.

C
We not only took the trip, I would say it was a very successful trip in that we all became closer, like, really good friends. I think we're friends. I mean, we are friends. We're friends. Yes, we're friends with each other.

B
She's not good at knowing we are friends with them. It's ambiguous. When I have a child, when I have a wife, when I have, you know, I have a sister, these are provable things. No one can say, no, I'm not your wife, I'm not your child, I'm not your sister. I can prove these things.

C
Friends, nebulous, provable things. Things that they have done for us. Things that we love them, we depend on them. We talk to them often. Yes, I know what is going on in their lives.

They know what's going on in my life. Yes, I was sick recently.

Some juices came to my front door. I sent them away. I said, I didn't order any juices.

My new friend called me and said, sometimes when people are sick, they send things to people, and then the people accept them. Yeah. So we're going to try this again. I'm going to resend the juices. How did the trip go, honey?

Okay. The trip was amazing. I actually do want to talk about one part of the trip that I thought was super important. Okay. So the last day of the trip, it was like three nights, four nights or something.

We all go to breakfast, and we're sitting at breakfast, and my new friend, I'm going to call my friend Alex, because that's actually her name. On account of that's her name. Yeah. That's a good call. Okay.

So she sits at the table and she says, because she's extremely vulnerable and precious and honest, she says, so here's what I usually do when I leave. A social thing like this, the new trip, new friends. I leave, and then I spend a day thinking of every single thing I said or did that I wish I didn't say or do. And then I obsess about that thing. And then I think, do they think I'm stupid for saying that and what I should have said?

So that's a postmortem. I just die for a day. All the things. So let's just do it now. Let's just sit at breakfast and talk about every single thing we said and did over the last three days that we think may have gone off wrong and we wish we did differently.

It was the most lesbian breakfast that ever had. It was four women. I just recommend it so highly because I think it's the conversation that made us the closest. I agree. I think that that kind of cracked it all open.

It cracked it open. Yeah. It was really wonderful. Although, of course, I had a postmortem for the postmortem. So where does it end?

I don't know. But I just wanted to throw that little tidbit out there because I think that especially people like the pod squatters, I know these are sensitive bunnies, and I know that we obsess about what we said and did and that level of vulnerability, I think. But I do. I think the friendship thing is going well. Thank you for checking in.

Um, I have learned. I'm starting to learn what you said, sissy, which is that, um, it's not maybe an extra thing. It's not like I have to, like, do my healing and my mental health work and all of my things. And then if I have extra time, I can have a friend. It's like, oh, my friends can help me with my mental health.

B
Yeah. It's all part of. I don't know. I feel like they're part of your mental health. Yeah.

C
Like I told Abby recently, I feel like I'm a hot air balloon, and now I have, like, a basket. The basket is there now. Yeah. It's really cool. People you trust.

D
I love that. Sissy. What about you? Oh, her tell me more. Oh, I know.

C
I get to do Sissy's. Tell me more. No, I don't know what your tell me more is. What the hell is your tell me more? Did any of you find any questions for me?

D
Hold on, let me look. Oh, no. Once you tell me more, do your own, okay. Oh, I will. I know this is not my first rodeo, okay?

So my tell me more is from me to me. Okay. Okay. And this is what it is in our episode with Jen Hatmaker, which, by the way, I'm that episode. It's.

It's 86, so she's beautiful. So wonderful. But I have to confess that I was pretending to know what she was talking about the entire time. She was talking about codependency. So she said.

I thought that word meant that you're a needy person, you're fragile, and you don't have the muscle memory to independently handle any part of your life. Well, that's not me. Right? And so then everyone laughed knowingly at how absurd that notion was. And then I laughed unknowingly, because that is exactly what I thought codependency was.

And it was exactly why I thought codependency had absolutely zero, nothing burger to do with me. And then she said the actual definition of codependency, which is that you just don't allow anyone to sit in the consequences of their choices, which she had said she thought was just being helpful to people. Yes. And that at that point, I wanted to melt into this actual window seat of my son's that I do the podcast in because I realize that it has all the burgers to do with me. Right.

C
All the burgers. So I will be planning some codependency podcasts, so those of us who are also laughing unknowingly with Jen might be able to dig a little bit into that. Good for you. Okay, so the codependency book, you both read it. I read the entire thing.

I told Abby as you. I read it as you sister. And Abby said, you read the codependency book as sister, like you. And then halfway through it, she's like, I just can't stop. I just.

B
I can't stop. I'm only reading it from sister's perspective. I cannot stop this. But the first, my favorite book, that book story, is that I brought it home, I put it on the coffee table, and Abby said, I'll read it if you read it. I'll read it if you read it.

C
That's the most codependent thing to say about codependency. Oh my God. What's interesting about codependency no more is I read it 20 years ago and it's totally different now. My codependencies have shifted in many ways. Okay, we're going to have to pause there for today when things get hard.

Remember, we can do hard things. Bye.

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if youd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to we can do hard things hitting the pod helps you because youll never miss an episode, and it helps us because youll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the we can do hard things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify odyssey or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While youre there, if youd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful.

We appreciate you very much. We can do hard things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Lagrasso, Alison Schott, Deena Kleiner, and Bill Schultz.

Tell Me More: First Love, Meds + Recovery

Primary Topic

Episode Summary

Main Takeaways

Episode Chapters

1: Introductions and Anniversaries

2: Medications and Mental Health

3: Recovery and Purpose

4: Community and Support

Actionable Advice

About This Episode

People

Content Warnings:

Transcript