#2420 Summer House S08E12: Passenger Princess

Ben Mandelker

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Ronnie Karam

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Ben Mandelker

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Ronnie Karam

Well, hello, and welcome to watch what happens. We're a podcast. Loves to talk shit about. Bravo. Thanks for being here, guys.

I'm Ronnie. That's Ben over there. Hi, Ben. Hi, Ronnie. How are you?

Good. What's going on today? Not much. Just, you know, bask. I wish you would support me more.

Ben Mandelker

Go ahead, go ahead. Like, a little overwhelmed by this podcast right now. Uh, yeah, so, uh, I just. I just want you to support me, and, like, I'm just overwhelmed. Yeah.

Ronnie Karam

No, no, seriously, seriously. Go on. How's everything going, man? Seriously. Yeah, it's good.

Ben Mandelker

I'm just gonna rage smile because I want to. Smart man. I wish it was smart man smile supporting me at all. I just want to ask you something. Make it seem like there's, like, you can answer in any sort of way.

And then when you don't answer the way I want to, I'm gonna rage smile and say, I'm overwhelmed. I just want you to smile. Oh, good. What a mess. Okay.

Ronnie Karam

Welcome to Summer House, episode 812. The episode where, I don't know, guys just are terrible. I know. For a moment, I actually had, like, a moment where I thought, well, Kyle and Amanda have gotten back on track. It's funny how they always start the season so badly, but by the end, they actually sort of seem okay.

Ben Mandelker

But then, sure enough, disaster. Disaster strikes. Now, before we get into that, just want a reminder. We next week, not next week. In two weeks, we're going to Europe next week.

But the show is in two weeks. We've got Birmingham, and we've also got Dublin going on for our european shows. They're gonna be so fun. London is sold out for the stuff that we're gonna cover, though. In London, we're going to recap the Amsterdam episode of Real Houses of Beverly Hills, where Rinna and Kim have their big fight.

And that one's called Amsterdam from season five. And then in Dublin, we're going to recap, of course, real housewives of Orange county in Ireland. We're going to do the episode where Tamara hyperventilates in the van. I forget what. I forget what episode number that is offhand.

And then in Birmingham, we are going to do Vicki being transported out of a hotel in Iceland with a towel on her face. So go check that out. The details are on our social media. That's what we'll be covering. And we can't wait to see all of you guys at our shows.

Ronnie Karam

Yeah, we're going to have so much fun. We're excited. Ben's already got his packing cubes coming. Packing cubes. Watch out, watch out, uropa.

So here we are, summer house 812. We start with Carl and Lindsey talking. He's just done the whole. This is right after he did the whole, like, my dozen minister. Like, he hates your guts and wishes you were in hell.

That's after that conversation, right? Yeah, they're sort of like, wrapping that one up. And he's like, you know? And she's like, yeah, I know, but like, why'd you wait so long? And he's like, well, when we had a tough conversation or something, I feel like it's hard.

Ben Mandelker

I got nervous and I should have just talked to you right after New Jersey, and I don't like the fact that took me time to talk to you. And then the way I described it, I just don't want to have any secrets from you. My parents love you and they just want the best for us. That's all. That's all.

And she's like, just yelling at him with her eyes. See, I didn't take it like that. I took it as her just looking at him like, okay. I think she looks so confused by Carl with his whole, like, I was afraid to tell you. She's looking at him like, she's holding his hand.

Ronnie Karam

Like, what? I took it as, like, well, she's. Have we just met? Like, we've been friends for ten years. Why are you surprised how I am?

She's just looking at him like, what is your deal, Carl? Because Carl's like, I was just terrified. What am I going to do, tell you? Here's what I was doing, okay? Like, I had this conversation, but I had to make sure that I had a conversation about the conversation on camera, and then I had to interrupt a dinner very dramatically and pull you aside so that you would raise out in front of everybody.

And then I could be the victim in front of all of these people. It's like, you're so fucking obvious, dude. And I hope that Lindsey's onto him. And it's just like, I'm not giving him what he wants. I'm not going to freak out on him at this dinner.

Ben Mandelker

Well, that's what our eyes are telling me. Are telling me. She looks confused. Like, why are we talking about this again? I thought we settled this.

And then she's also rageful. Like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, this is real. Like, you're really. Like, I was in the middle of lobster dinner and you pulled me the side for this.

Like, get over it. We already discussed this. Done. So then Danielle, Danielle at the table. Back at the table is like, um, Amanda, could you give us, like, a little bit of deeds?

I can spill the tea. About what you guys were talking about. Amanda's like, I don't want to talk about it because I didn't like when my shit was talked about. Amanda, you're, like, the biggest gossip in this house. Come on, tell everyone.

Ronnie Karam

Anyway. Why don't you ask someone else, since you don't want to talk to me about it, but only other people and you. So then we cut back to Carl, and Carl's like, oh, my mom told me at the bridal shower you guys had a nice job, right? You had a nice child at the bridal shower. And she goes, yeah.

And I'm clear on that, babe. We don't need to, like, beat horses here, okay? It's like, I'm not beating a horse. I'm just letting you know. Yeah.

Ben Mandelker

That's when his mask starts to slip, because he does that smile like, he's like, you fucking bitch. Like, that's what he does. He's like, he gives that rage smile when he's like, when he is really angry, he says things to be like, no, I'm really nice and supportive. But the rage smile shows that he's like, you know, as furious as she is. And so he's like, I think he's.

Ronnie Karam

Just always constantly fucking her and fucking with her and poking her, and she's just not doing what he wants. And he starts breaking this episode because he's not getting what he wants. And so he's like, okay, I'm going to up my game. Then. If you're not going to rage out in front of everybody, I'll start poking you more, you know?

Ben Mandelker

Yeah. Because this is. And I'll start visibly getting pissed. This is the best response that he could want based on what he was saying, based on how he was, like, freaking out in the bedroom last week. Like, this is a great response.

This is Lindsey saying, like, no, it's cool. Like, I get it. I'm fine. Like, don't worry about it. And so she goes, but we're through that conversation.

And he goes, I know that, but I also care because I want to help and hug you and give you the support you need. Notice that I'm giving you support now. So when I ask for support tomorrow, you are forced to give it to me. And that's all that comes from. Cause I care.

I care about you. She's like, okay. And he goes, I love you. She goes, okay, can we go back to dinner, please? Love you, too.

Ronnie Karam

And so he's just like, oh, well, I guess we're just gonna go back to dinner, then. Well, because I really wanted resolution here, and she just gave me easy resolution. Surely I have nothing to be upset about, right? But I'm pissed off going back to dinner house. It's, like, literally smiling.

Pissed off that he didn't get what he wanted. So obvious at this point. So now Lindsay is telling us. Okay, let me get this straight. Um, your parents just said pretty fucked up things about your future wife, and I'm the one that needs to console you.

Ben Mandelker

Thanks for telling me. But I think that's weird. Like, my parents would never say anything negative about the man I'm about to marry because it's, like, my decision, and they will follow the lead. My lead in my decision, because I've told them, you better listen to what I'm fucking doing. Cause I'm Lindsey Hubbard.

Yeah, I got all the shots around here.

Ronnie Karam

Yeah. Fucking Carl. I can't. You go to your mom and you tell her I'm being abused. What is your mom gonna say?

Get the fuck out of the relationship. You're being abused. I'm with someone who doesn't support my sobriety. Get out. What do you.

Please. Oh, hey, breaking news. My mom reacted to something that I told her, which was totally slanted my way, so. So, meanwhile, outside, Kat was like, well, I'm a New Englander, so I love lobster. And then Amanda just promptly spits her lobster out of her mouth.

She's like, I hate lobster now. So, they return to the group, and that's just, like, really awkward. Everyone's sitting there, and Liz is like, well, I can't wait for this reading tonight. Gabby's like, oh, yeah. So, the way it works is, if you have a specific energy in mind, you can put that into the tarot.

Ben Mandelker

And then the tarot can, like, reveal that energy. So, like, Danielle, for instance, the energy you can put into it is conniving, bitch. Cause that's pretty easy for you. Okay. Mm hmm.

Ronnie Karam

So, Lindsey's like, great. I have a lot of questions. And Carl just kind of like, hello. So, Lindsey gets up and clears plates, and she's like, I'm gonna put that on mine. I was like, wow, she didn't even use to put your weight on me.

She's really annoyed with Carl right now. Carl's like. He's like, you got plates. Yeah, he does that really gentlemanly thing where he's like, oh, wow, you're carrying all the plates. You got that, you got that, you got that, you got that?

Okay, I'm not gonna move, but you got that. Okay, she's gone now. And then he kind of, like, slams the chair back. What is his deal? Oh, he's such a fucking weirdo.

Ben Mandelker

I was gonna bring her the saucer, but I'm just, like, really overwhelmed right now. I'm just, like, a little overwhelmed. It's just like a locker. It's like a saucer. It's really hard.

Ronnie Karam

I'm gonna have a job soon. It's, like, really hard. Like, I'm a man of my word, and I said I'd have a job at the end of the summer. So the last thing I think about is if I could bring the saucer into the kitchen. That's it.

So now it's just a few people at the table, and Jesse's sad, and Paige sees, and she asks him if he's okay, and he's telling us, typically, it's not in my nature to be vulnerable and sad, but he talks about finding something on his nut and being afraid that the cancer came back, which is obviously terrifying. So then Gabby asks if Carl is good. And Carl's like, oh, I'm better. I just had a mini meltdown in my head. I'm overwhelmed, you know?

Like, I've got so much in my head. Like, I'm just overwhelmed by a lot at the moment. You know what I mean? It's, like, a lot. It's like.

It's, like, so much. He says overwhelmed so many times this episode. It is ridiculous. But, yeah, he's like, y'all just, like, just, like, a lot that's going on right now. So Lindsay is talking to Amanda, and she's like, you know, it's kind of like, he took, like, what you.

Ben Mandelker

What you said and said, like, it's my fault, and it's like, it's my fault. Like, I did something wrong, and, like, she's upset with me. And, like, he kind of came into, like, the dinner, like, upset with it. And Amanda's like, yeah, I think the stress of talking to you made him anxious. And also the fact that I talked to him right before dinner and said, you need to tell Lindsay right away because she'll see this on camera, and if she finds out, then it's gonna be terrible.

So you do need to do it right now. I think that maybe that had something to do with it. And Lindsey's like, well, you know, the topic was a tough topic, you know? And he's just going back over and over this conversation he had with his parents and losing, she said. And first of all, I'd like to just point out she's talking to Paige now, too.

Ronnie Karam

Paige is sitting there, but I'd like to point out how she's not pulling a. Like I am. Can you believe what Carl did? He's such an asshole. She's not doing that.

She's like, poor Carl. Carl's freaking out, you know? Like, he doesn't need to be freaking out. Like. Like, she's not.

She's not reacting in any way that I would expect her to be reacting. No, she's actually pretty chill. And she says she just tells everyone. She's like. She's like, yeah, you know, we had this.

Ben Mandelker

He. You know, he had a conversation with his parents, and his dad is an ordained minister and said that if I were marrying you, I wouldn't marry you. And Paige is sitting there and her eyes just bulge like, oh, my God. Command s. I am saving this moment.

I am send. I'm sending this mental moment to Craig. We're texting. I took a photo of Paige's reaction because it was so funny. Let's see if I can actually get.

Ronnie Karam

It to bookmark for chicken. Bookmark for chicken. Yeah. She was like, yeah. Like, no subtlety at all.

Ben Mandelker

She's like, oh, my God. Wait. I wasn't even expecting a piece of juicy gossip to land in my lap like this, and it just, like, fell out of nowhere. Like, I'm hashtag bless right now. So Amanda's like, yeah, but Carl also was just like, that's your opinion.

Ronnie Karam

Like, he didn't necessarily agree with him. He was just like, that's your opinion. And Lindsay's like, yeah, but that's why you don't run to your dad with all of your problems. Because if I told my dad every time we fought, my dad would be like, don't get married. You know?

Like, I mean, come on. Like. She'S like. I mean, he came into the conversation hot, and he was defensive, but I think it's just because he didn't want me to be upset with him. Bright and paper like, okay, well, let's get our charts read.

I cannot wait to see the slaughter that's about to happen over that one. Come on. Hold on. Let's all give ourselves up. I think we all need, I think, five minutes to cool down slash text chicken.

Ben Mandelker

Tell them everything that's going on. Okay, great. So now Jesse's sad, understandably, but no one really understands why. All they know is that Sierra, don't forget, also, last episode, Sierra called him a trash bag at the table, which, by the way, I fully support. I mean, I feel terrible that he's.

This is. The cancer scare is so scary, and I feel terrible for him, but does not take away from the fact that he is kind of a trash bag when it comes to dating women. So, uh, everyone's kind of, like, laughing because, like, oh, Jesse, you know, he's deflated because they don't realize that there's something much larger on his mind right now. And, um, they're just like, wow, that was so mean of Sierra. So now, everyone, it's time for the tarot reading.

And so everyone goes into club sand for the tarot reading. So Kyle gets his reading first, and his past and present are fire energy. And he's like, love it. Like, you don't even know what that means. Fire energy.

He's like, oh, sorry. And this lady is, like, the stereotypical lady who reads your cards at a party. She's just, like, kind of some nerdy lady from, like, d and d club or whatever. Yeah. And she's like, temperance is about not going extreme.

Ronnie Karam

We're finding balance between partying and family. A lot of people's future have the word party in it. Like, maybe less partying. I think you've been partying like you're in a summer house, lady. Yeah, by the way.

So then, Amanda, I just have to. Say, for Carl, it's maybe not a good idea to go back to lover boy if Kyle has fire energy, because that could really mean there's all sorts of different meanings for the word fire.

So then Amanda gets the death card, and she's like, does that symbolize bikinis for big boobed people? And she's like, no. You are digging up roots, and you want to plant your own and deciding how that looks for you. Not saying that. This is not saying that I'm making this stuff up, but really, this could apply to anyone, let's be honest.

And Lindsay gets the seven of swords, and Alyssa's like, yeah, everybody was expecting about seven of these in Carl's chest today after that conversation, but they didn't get it. Now, these are seven very confused swords. Are you gonna poison him? What are you gonna do? Nothing.

Are you gonna wait till he's asleep and suffocate him with the pillow? Nothing. Who are you? Lindsay Albert. Who are you?

Bring back my Lindsay. I need to see Lindsay throwing his shit out on the line, like, who is this? You've changed too much. Go back. And the tarot reader says that Lindsay, the seven of swords means that no matter what the curveballs that life throws at you, keep your eyes forward and not look in the back.

Ben Mandelker

All right. I don't know what sort of curveball could possibly happen between now and getting married. It seems like it's kind of just, like, straight balls going the entire time. But sure, whatever you say, crazy lady. I like the Susanna beador.

Ronnie Karam

Yes, well, I know I've changed a lot. I've changed a lot. I really have changed. Well, I've changed. I'm moving to Orange county now.

It's amazing. All I really needed to become a new person was to get dumped by some slot on a beach. Carl's reading was that he drew the four of. I'm just a little overwhelmed right now. Sorry, Carl.

Ben Mandelker

Unfortunately, we tried to pull your card out, but your card wouldn't come out because it said it's got a lot on its plate at the moment, so it's just gonna stay on the deck. And Kyle's like, pentacles. Did you say testicles? Which is, you know, sad because no one knows what's going on. So then Alyssa's like, well, navigating yourself through emotionally turbulent times, you don't need to hold everything so tight.

Ronnie Karam

You could party. And Jesse's like, yeah, you know, I had my doubts, but that really hit home. That really hit home. Good. Aw, Jesse.

Ben Mandelker

Oh, good job. Good job, man. You did great. You did great, by the way. So now it's time for pendulum questions, wherein Alyssa dangles a pendulum and makes it swing in a direction that's fun.

So Paige is like, okay, my question for the pendulum. Why are you so unstylish? Sorry, wrong question. Am I? How does it feel to be, could.

Ronnie Karam

You help Alyssa pick out an outfit tomorrow? Yes or no? Could you let Alyssa know that there's a sale at Zara? Thanks.

Were you aware that just because we took money for doing an old Navy ad last week that now we have to have old navy checkout people at our game night? I'm sorry. Was that formed in the proper kind of a question to get an answer? Alyssa's just crying. She's like, okay, question for the pendulum.

Ben Mandelker

Can the pendulum please tell Craig that Carl's stepfather would not marry him and Lindsay because I wasn't able to text him. Thanks. Pendulum. Okay, I have a question. I have a question for the pendulum.

Ronnie Karam

Do you have a scrunchie so that Alyssa could put it in her hair. Cause it's really distracting. Alyssa's like, why? I have a question for the pendulum. Could you ask Alyska to bring my luggage upstairs?

Ben Mandelker

Thanks.

Ronnie Karam

Alyssa's like, finally something I can do. So Jesse's sad, you know? So Carl goes outside and sparks up a cigar, and Lindsey's like, little cigar in action. Please be. Please be more supportive.

Ben Mandelker

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Ronnie Karam

So then Sierra gets into bed with west, and Kyle sits with Carl outside. And so Carl's like, dude, I am so fucked. Freaking out right now. I'm so overwhelmed right now. And Kyle's like, why?

What are you talking about? He's like, the conversation with my parents is bad. It's really, really bad. They were hard on me. They were really, really hard on me.

Very, very hard. It was almost like the hours between eight and five. Unlivable. Unlivable. Overwhelming.

Ben Mandelker

Overwhelming. I just like the idea of taking someone on a date that wasn't like a Wednesday overwhelming. So here's Carl, who just professed to Lindsay that he wants to be deeply honest with her and he wants to share everything. And now he's revealing a different tone, a different truth, and a different story. Now to Kyle.

And Kyle's like, listen, friend to friend. Oh, wait, listen, underminer to friend. You got to give me the full picture. There are times this summer where I just feel like you're sugarcoating things. Oh, I'm not really doing sugar right now.

I'm trying to go to barriers a lot. Yeah, well, it's expression, and you're basically trying to soften the blow and like, oh, I'm not doing blow right now either way. Yeah, another expression. Anyway, you had this heart. You had this heart to heart with your mom and Lou.

You know, it's like, whoa, it wasn't a heart to heart. It's more like. I don't know. They just were like, do you want to do this? And, like, is this what you want to do for the rest of your life?

Like, you know, do you want to be with this awful, awful person? Do. Do you want to wake up in the morning and see her eyes staring daggers at you? Do you want to be with this, like, shrill personality? Do you want to be with this person who Lou cannot stand?

Like, something like that, you know? I'm overwhelmed. Yeah. And he says that they're concerned that the volatility will cause him to go off the deep end, and that's certainly what happened with his brother, you know? And, I mean, I.

Ronnie Karam

Look, I do think that they're right in that regard. Like, you're sober. It's hard enough to make this big of a change and to be around people who are drinking. And you don't need all this drama if you're trying to be. So just break up.

Just fucking break up. What do you. What do you need, Lou, to actually show up and break up with fucking Lindsey for you? Carl, just man up, for fuck's sake. Yeah.

Ben Mandelker

I mean, his parents are right. Like, this is not. We've all been saying, we all know this is not a good match, but it's also. There's something about this Carl saying, like, this is, like, what happened to my brother? You're kind of implying, like, lindsey's going to literally kill you.

I'm not being callous about what happened to brother, but that's kind of the message he's putting out there, which I was like, whoa, dude. So Kyle's like, there are times where, like, you need to put yourself first, and it's your mental health, it's your happiness, your career. And, like, you let the anxiety get the best. You did. I can see it.

I'm glad you talked to Lindsey, but holy shit, don't bottle things up unless it's lover boy and you can sell it, not alch. That's the future, man. Yeah. And Carl's like, yeah, Carl has an incredible relationship with his mom, and so she's concerned. That says everything I need to know about it.

Ronnie Karam

Carl's mom is worried about it. And they're close. I mean, they're, like, really, really close. Yeah.

Ben Mandelker

Still, though, Carl's just like, I don't know. I just feel like, you know, well. She'S reacting to what he's saying. It's just so annoying. And Kyle knows that.

Ronnie Karam

Kyle's so fucking annoying. Kyle was the one last year, who's like, carl. Carl can't even fucking show up to work with his laptop cause he's fucking coked out. I stick up for him all the time, throwing fits about Carl being way worse about Carl than Lindsey is. And now Kyle's sitting here like, oh, yeah, you know, the ultimate villain, Lindsey.

Even Carl's mom, even Carl's mom is standing up for Carl. Like, yeah, duh, it's Carl's mom. He's never liked anybody that Carl's dated, you know, not that she's really got that bad of a picker. I'm gonna go. I'll go ahead and say that part as well, in her defense.

So anyway, people are turning off lights and going to bed. It's bedtime. So Carl goes to bed and kisses Lindsay on the forehead, and she's like, oh, my God, your hands are so cold. Did you put them in the freezer?

The other more supportive of my house. Sorry. I was like, my hands are, like, a little overwhelmed right now. So now it's the next morning, and Carl kisses Lindsey and goes off to barriers with the guys. And then.

How did you ever marry somebody that wakes you up every morning like this? I think I'm gonna go to barriers. Fuck off. Fucking go. You're really gonna wake me up.

You're gonna kiss me on the forehead and stare at my closed eyes and tell me that you're going to just get the fuck out of here. I would appreciate the kiss on the forehead before you go out, but I don't necessarily need to know about bear. She wasn't awake. She was asleep. I would kill you if you disrupted my sleep to talk about the exercise you're gonna do.

Ben Mandelker

Well, Danielle and Danielle and Lindsey and everyone else get their revenge. Cause they all decide to go get bagels. And so it's just Paige and Amanda left in the house alone. And Paige is like, everyone left except for us. This is, like, literally the best day ever.

So Paige was like, what a night. Wow. I loved having the astrologer finding out that things are way more dysfunctional between Carl and Lindsay than I ever imagined. Wow. It was just like.

I just felt like a thrill. It was like. It was like I can barely even remember last night because I was just so deeply happy. It was so amazing spending time with that astrologer. And she gave us her gift, and then we told her she was a terrible dresser, which is our gift.

Ronnie Karam

Three of blouses. That's the card I pulled for her. Three of blouses. Please get at least three. What was that.

Ben Mandelker

What was the astrologer's name again? Was it Laura or was it Ashley? So Amanda's just like, you know what? That reader, she was really on target. She could have not have said it more plainly.

It was exactly what I've been thinking about, which is that I want to do something for myself. I want to do my own thing. And I just want. I just keep on thinking about, like, what would it be? What would the name be?

Would there be guacamole involved? How much could I say, Kyle at employee meetings? Like, it's just like there's a whole world of opportunity in front of me. So then Kyle brings in a latte to Amanda, and Peach is like, what am I, chopped liver? What am I, an Alyssa?

Is she still here? Did she overhear that? I can say it louder.

So then Amanda's like, what? You bring one coffee and no food? What kind of monster are you? Kyle? So everyone's back from Barry's.

Carl's a little late cuz he stayed to talk to someone who's like really big in the non elk business. Yeah, but he's back. Hi, babes. Hi. Whoa, whoa, hold on.

You just like slow it down a little. Overwhelmed. This doorway, it's pretty intense right now. Okay, I'm in the house. Okay.

I got through it. Okay, thanks. And so he's telling us. Yeah, Woosaw is a retailer that only. Sells non alcoholic products.

Ronnie Karam

But it's called Woosa. Is that what it's called? You know, I thought it was Woosaw, but then I thought maybe it's called won't woon San or Wonsan. I mean, I don't know, because Woosaw. Yeah, I think it was.

I thought it was the name of a person. But Woosaw is the name of GG's weed company, right? I meant to go back and change that, but I. I couldn't tell. I didn't have anything at you.

I was just curious because now I'm like, oh, is this weed drinks? That's what I thought he would have said that. But later in the episode, it did not sound like Woo saw it sound like Juan san or Woon san or Ron san. Oh, yeah. From memory.

I just thought it was a guy's name. But anyway, he's like, yeah, they only sell non alcoholic products. And I want to focus on that. You know, I want to focus on the sober industry. You know, I want to give back.

But I also want my partner to be brought into that. You know, she's had concerns. Like, she says you're pigeonholing yourself. Okay, did she? Because we heard her say that the sober bar is a stupid idea.

Cause she doesn't want brick or mortar. Yeah, but she didn't. What we've seen on camera is that brick and mortar not smart. And don't go back to lover boy because that was sort of a toxic relationship. And you've already said that.

Actually, she just said. All she said about that so far was like, oh, okay. So that's. So it's basically like, going back to an example. Right, right.

Ben Mandelker

She sort of nudged, like, let's think of, like, a new. A new workplace, you know? But he has interpreted that, as far as we can tell, as like, oh, well, she doesn't support me. So Lindsay, meanwhile, enters the kitchen in a bucket hat and a sports bra. And Paige is like, you literally look like our mom right now.

Like, really? Like, you're basically like the Alyssa of our cast. Is she still here? Can she hear us? So then outside, Sierra, people are just hanging out and getting sun or whatever.

Ronnie Karam

So Sierra's telling Jesse, like, hey, sorry I was mean to you last night when I called you a trash bag. And he goes, yeah, it was just when you said I was a trash bag you would never set your friends up with. And she's like, well, I was just saying, like, it seems like you're always looking for the next girl before you've given the first one a chance. And he's like, okay, well, that's fair. She's like, but I'm sorry.

It was mean. So it's really cute. And then they're like, kiss. Everybody kiss. And so she asked west if they can kiss.

And she's like, I have a cool boyfriend. And then Danielle is like, you said boyfriend. She's like, yeah. Ha ha. No, you said boyfriend.

Yeah. It was so funny, Danielle. It was my boyfriend. They're like, oh, my God. Get her out of here.

Ben Mandelker

Can the lir please build a new train station in our front yard so we can get Danielle onto that train as soon as possible? Can somebody say pie chart to get Danielle refocused? Could someone say CEO and founder convention is happening in Quag? So meanwhile, in the kitchen. So then Sierra kisses Jessie, and I still maintain that they have more chemistry than she has with west.

Ronnie Karam

How those crazy kids end up together. Well, we'll see. So in the kitchen. Big scene alert. Big scene.

Ben Mandelker

So Carl's in there with Lindsey, and he's like, love the outfit. Ha. Love it. Love it. This is not a strained attempt at communication between two people who clearly hate each other but are still committed to getting married.

I love it. I really do. This is so awkward. It's just. Yeah, it's bright and summery, right?

Ronnie Karam

He's like, yeah, I mean, the hat as Greg, she's, oh, my God, I need a little sun protecting. I just wish that my mom and Lou could see this interaction and see how much we've grown. Oh, God. So how was your meeting? Carl?

He's like, oh, it was good. I mean, they're hiring for a few different roles right now. I don't think I'm necessarily fit for those roles, but, you know, like, the queer thing, you know, like, I just wanted to make sure that I did something for the queer thing because remember how, you know, like, you're forcing me to do something by the end of the summer? So like, we said we'd do it by Labor Day because you're abusive. So, you know, like, just.

I just want to be on your abusive time schedule. So, you know, I'm a man of my word. I just want to make sure that, you know, I'm not doing something about this because, like, if I'm not doing things, then I deserve to get beat. But if I do do them, please don't hit me is what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm a man of my word.

Ben Mandelker

And, like, you know, so, like, if I'm not giving you attention, it's kind of your fault because you've made me have this ultimatum on, like, forcing all my dreams to be decided in like, two weeks. It's fine. But I'm a man of my word. And, like, just want you to know I'm not not doing anything. I'm just, you know, I'm doing, you know, I think lover boy is like, a great idea.

And, like, it'd be funny because, like, remember how I supported you last night by being really honestly, now you can support me. So Cullen's like, uh huh. And does Kyle have a vision for you? He has some ideas, but. Which is his way of saying, I haven't asked that question yet, but I haven't seen anything in writing, which is his way of saying, yeah, I really have not investigated this.

It's just been a casual conversation. But there's still more conversations to be had, which is like, oh, I need to mentally write this down because I have to remember these questions. Ask Kyle. Yeah, it's like the biggest bullshit response. Lindsay can.

Lindsay can sniff out bullshit. Like, we can all sniff it out, but, like, does Kyle have a vision for you? Yes or no? No. I have not heard of vision, but he doesn't want to say that, so.

Oh, yeah, there's, like, some more conversations to be hot, and, like, you know, like, that's definitely something we want to. Put on the agenda for him. Like, he's. Personally, I think he's purposely not answering the question because he wants her to be like, no, you shouldn't go work for Kyle. That's what he wants.

Ronnie Karam

So Kyle told him, hey, here's my vision. We have this non alcoholic. I don't spritz or Seltzer coming out. I think that depending on how involved you want to be, we could talk about a rev share. That is a vision.

Ben Mandelker

No, I. You tell me how you want to be. And he's like, I think he's trying to get Lindsey to be like, no, you shouldn't do that. So he's telling her, no, there's no vision. She's gaslighting starts right here.

I think the gaslighting starts later in the conversation. I don't think you're wrong that he wants to make Lindsey angry or whatever, but I think that right now, he knows this is, like, he doesn't want to put in the effort to do, like, a real job search. He doesn't want to do the effort to do anything. And there's something that came into his. Fell into his lap.

That's a good, you know, it's appealing because it's easy. He can go back to a job he already knows and yada, yada, yada. But it also means he doesn't have to stretch himself. And so he knows that Lindsey's not gonna approve of it. So instead of being like, I know this doesn't sound exciting to you, but I actually really like this idea, and this is what I want to do instead.

He's like, yeah, well, you know, there's been some conversations, and she's basically like, you haven't done any thought. You have not put any thought into this. And so then the moment that, like, his easy plan is destroyed, that's when he's gonna start to be like, you don't support me, and he's gonna make her look like the villain here. But, like, right now, I think he's in, like, pussy mode. He goes, oh, yeah, I think he kind.

Ronnie Karam

I think he came in and now. And, of course, that's me bringing in my feelings just about Carl this season in general. But, yeah, I think he started this whole thing. He was planning this from the very beginning, because she even says later, like, you spend eight months telling me you can't work because you're so traumatized by Kyle and how it went down with Kyle that you need to decompress. You're too traumatized to get a job, and now you're telling me on camera that you want to go work for Kyle and I'm not allowed to ask a question.

So he sets her up again off camera to be like, kyle's abusive. Kyle traumatized me to the point I can't even get off this fucking couch to go look for a job. The cameras are shooting and you're making me do it. And so now I'm going to come on camera to tell you that Kyle wants me to work for him again. And then I'm going to get pissed at you when you have a question about it.

Even though I've told you that I'm traumatized for almost a year and can't work because of Kyle. Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously he's got, he wants to go back to Kyle because, like, he hates, he hates working. He has, he's gotten, like, fired every season. And so working for lover boy, he hated it because he actually had to work.

Ben Mandelker

And so then he's like, I'll traumatize. I need to leave. So he leaves. But now the idea of actually trying to find a new job is actually even worse than the idea of just actually working. So he's like, oh, actually, I think I want to go back there.

So Carl's like, I mean, like, by the way, they show a flashback to three weeks ago of Kyle being like, hey, you want to do this? You want to work on this? Non Al, can we do a rev share? And I was like, how has someone aged so much in three weeks? Like, Carl, three weeks skill looked like a baby.

And I'm like, what happened? These three weeks have been tough on Carl. Yeah, he's going through it for sure. So he's like, well, I mean, if you had asked me seven months ago would I work with Kyle again, I would have said no. But it's compelling and interesting to potentially have this new product.

Ronnie Karam

So compelling that it's been three weeks that this offer came up and I still haven't talked to you about it. Isn't that compelling? I mean, it's just like, obvious. And she goes, well, I mean, it's comfortable, right? It's like going back to an ex.

Like, you're comfortable. You spent so much time and energy in that relationship and it's just like, easy to slide back in. By the way, she knows what she's talking about. Cause she's about to marry Carl, who is an ex. Yes, exactly.

Because it's easier than going out and finding somebody else. Like, she dated all these other guys and realized they're all fucked up, too. So she may as well go with the fucked up that she's used to. So she gets this decision. Yeah.

Ben Mandelker

And by the way, I've seen people do this before where they've worked at a place, and it was miserable for them. They hated it. They leave, and then they spend some time, and they're in the real world or whatever. And the actual act of looking for a job, really, it's hard and difficult, and it's deflating. And so then their old boss is like, well, I'll come back, and I'll be better this time.

Like, you know what? I think it is better. I feel like I've grown. I think I can handle it now. And they go back, and they're just as miserable.

And I think Lindsey's recognizing that that's what's happening here. So Carl's like, no. Now. Well, you know, now I've had some separation from it and, like, some time, and I kind of feel like Khan and I are in a better place. And I feel like there's an opportunity just, like, staring me right in the face with a company that was, like, a massive part of, like, I was the one that would take pictures, and it'd be, like, on Instagram.

It's, like, a huge part of the company. And, like, you know, as you saw last night, there's, like, a lot going on. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed in general, and I'm like, I'm just, like, trying to think of this as an opportunity and, like, what it means for my career and all that. Just, like, overwhelmed. And she's like, okay.

Ronnie Karam

And it's like, yeah, I just want your support and your. Well, she says, is there anything I can take off your plate? He goes, like, to make it easier because you keep saying you're overwhelmed. So what can I do to help you? And by the way, not bitching at him even a little bit.

Like, I'm not even getting atoned of it. She's just like, okay, well, what can I do to help you to take stuff off your plate because you're overwhelmed so you can focus on what you need to do career wise. And he's like, oh, I just want your support and your positivity. Like, like, he gives us this look, like, look at you. Look.

Ben Mandelker

You not being supportive of me right now with this. This wonderful choice that I came to because it was the only thing I felt like researching. And so she's like, I'm just asking questions. I'm just giving you my opinion. He goes, oh, can you listen for a second?

I'm, like, not even expressing my opinion. Oh, could you, like, listen to me for a second? Yes. I have felt at times, even in the last eight months, when I've, like, not been working full time, that I have brought up different things that I'm interested in and excited about and, like, not necessarily getting the support and excitement, and I get, like, more critique and then, like. And questioning, like, well.

Ronnie Karam

And this is where she's like, well, I'm not a yes person and I'm realistic. And you've been telling me that for eight months you've been decompressing because you're so traumatized by lover boy. It was so difficult and tumultuous. And now, of course, I'm going to ask you if that's right for you on an emotional level to get back in that. Like, this makes total sense to me.

Of course it does. But Carl's like, well, the devil's advocate sometimes to me comes across as. You shouldn't do that, Carl. Okay, why is it okay for your mom job interview? What have you done?

You done nothing. You met somebody with a non alcoholic beer and went for one. What is this, Sunday now? What are we on Saturday? So you went to a Saturday meeting with someone in the Hamptons to talk about soda?

Get the fuck out of here, Carl. Can we, Lou? Why is Lou allowed to be a devil's advocate, but Lindsay can't be. So she's like, well, if you don't want me to ask those questions, that's not a problem. If that's coming across to you is like, nothing supportive.

Ben Mandelker

Oh, well, now you're being defensive. It's just like, it's impossible. It's like, literally impossible to pitch a really bad idea to you and have you not support me 100%. She's like. He goes, I'm clearly gifted in sales.

Ronnie Karam

Could you show me one sliver of evidence that you're good in sales? Because I've literally seen none. And we've seen you on this show for a decade. I know. She's like, yeah, no, you are very gifted in sales.

Ben Mandelker

I know that. Yeah, I've been very successful in sales. Why are you convincing me of that? It's like, not even a question. Like, I feel like you're getting angry and this is the first time where Lindsay this season has said you're being angry right now, where she's actually correct the past.

She's just gaslit, Carl. But in this case, she's right. He is angry. And he's angry because he doesn't want to be faced with the inadequacy of his own bad decisions. So she's like, what do you need from me, Carl?

Ronnie Karam

And he's like, I need you to be excited and pumped about these incredible opportunities you have in front of me. My best friend offering me a soda because people come to celebrity viewings. Kyle's asking you to do this because he. What they were fighting about, I think last year was Carl's like, I'm going from town to town to sell these lover boy things. And I'm not just selling them.

These are personal appearance fees that I should be getting. I should be getting five grand for just showing up to this place because I'm a celebrity. And they're using me as celebrity to sell lover boy, right? And Kyle's like, fuck that. Fuck this guy for asking for shit when he shows up coked out of his mind or whatever.

So now Kyle's like, now I'm losing money. I've lost over a million dollars this year, and I need a celebrity back because no one wants to buy lover boy unless there's celebrity viewings attached. So now he's going to get Carl back. Can we stop pretending that you actually made any fucking effort or that Kyle wants you for any other reason than you are currently on tv? Yeah.

Ben Mandelker

And again, let's not forget that. When Carl was like, I just feel like I'm undervalued, Kyle was like, okay, well, write a proposal about what you would like, and let's try to, like, adjust this. And then he never wrote it. Remember? Remember?

Ronnie Karam

Yeah. So this makes me. So. I'm shaking this dongle in my hand. I'm so angry.

And I've still got Mamaw's beer cheese Instagram up in front of me because that's what we were talking about on the valley. And I'm just getting pissed off at all of this terrible entrepreneurship. Here comes one right now. You know, the third host of this show is named Bueller. Okay, that's my dog.

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Ben Mandelker

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Ronnie Karam

The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance.

Ben Mandelker

Honestly, I think for Lindsay Hubbard, she's being very calm because she's just like, well, what do you need from me? And he goes, I need you to be, like, excited and pumped about these incredible opportunities I have in front of me to make us money. And, like, I have an investment in lover boy. Do you have that same opportunity for yourself? Do you have an investment in something?

If it were to sell? And I was shocked that Lindsay did not go raging out, like. Like, what the fuck? She just was like, he's like, you know, Carl's interested me. This introduced me to this product, and he needs help with it.

Ronnie Karam

Yeah, this was. This was shitty. Well, also, like, I mean, all she's doing. All she's doing is saying, what do you need? What can I do?

Like, what do you. What can I do to help you? He's like, how dare you? You have nothing. You've got nothing.

You've got nothing going on. Like, what are you. What are you talking about? But also, like, don't, like, make it seem like, don't make it seem like you want her input on something that you've already decided on. Like, he's clearly decided that this is what he wants to do, and he should just say, I'm going to do this.

Ben Mandelker

I know the risks. I thought about their risks. I know that it was a toxic environment. I believe that it's going to be different now. I think this is a product that means a lot to me.

And if it's bad, I will leave. You know, I think he wants, I. Think he was prepared to do that. I don't think he was to do that. But she's, I think that's what he came in there like, this is what I'm doing.

Ronnie Karam

You don't have a job. But she's not giving him that. She's just like, well, what do you need from me? Okay, well, I think that work for Kyle, like, okay, what do you want me to say right now? Listen, Lindsay wants to see from her mate someone who is like, ambitious and organized, thinks about things, anticipates issues, just has their shit together, right?

Ben Mandelker

And so Carl likes to play the role, but he actually does not doing it. He's just like, yeah, well, I thought about it and like, I think it'll be a good opportunity. And she's like, what about the risks? What about this? What about that?

And he, like, did not anticipate anything. And now he's flustered and I was, oh, fuck you. And he's gonna make it seem like she's the bad one for not supporting him when he was the one who, who's just like, half assing this and like, this is just not the person for Lindsay. I mean, what's so funny? Every time we just sort of come to that conclusion as if they haven't already broken up.

But it's just like, to me, it's like, it drives me nuts that he's going to try to make her seem like the bad guy here. Like she's so unsupportive when he was the one who's just like, you know, doing this half assed, you know, high schooler approach to getting an internship. Yeah. So she's like, okay, well, it sounds like you're leaning towards making a decision to work with lover boy then, right? And he goes, oh, well, I mean, it's very compelling, but I don't want to upset you.

Ronnie Karam

She goes, oh, it's not upset me that. There it is. That's your stuff, Ronnie, right there. That's the, I don't want to upset you. That's where you're, that's to me where it's like going really into.

Ben Mandelker

To the gas. Yeah. He's not getting what he wants is what I'm seeing. And she's like, well, that's not upsetting me, but I'm going to ask you, Carl, question. I'm going to ask you questions.

Ronnie Karam

Carl, it's my job as your partner and bring up what you bring up to me. And so I'm glad she said that, because she's like, you're the one who's brought up all these problems with Kyle. So, of course, if you tell me that, I've got to tell you that when you say you're walking back into the lion's den, like, yeah, the fuck, dude? And she goes, I'm not always gonna be like, yeah, I'm not asking for that. Like, you literally just asked for nothing but support.

Ben Mandelker

And, yeah, I'm not critiquing you. It's literally just putting everything on the table because that's what's real. And I don't think it's fair that, oh, well, don't make this about you now. You made it about her. You made it about her when you said she's not supportive over and over and then accused her of being upset when she wasn't upset for trying to support you.

Ronnie Karam

You fuck. See, mine is the worst. My theory is to clarify, I feel like your theory was that he entered this conversation with the intent to gaslight her. My theory is that he entered this conversation to pitch this shitty idea, and when he didn't get what he wanted, he then switched into gaslight mode, which is why he says, don't make this about you now. Like, you're the victim in this.

Ben Mandelker

She literally didn't even say that she. Yeah, that's why. I think. That's why I think he's starting it because I think he started it because he's not getting the reaction he wanted. He was expecting.

Ronnie Karam

This whole season, he's been coming in, expecting Lindsey to have a fucking fit about everything. And after week two, that wasn't happening. So he keeps pushing her, and she's not doing it, but he's acting like she is still. Like he's going and reacting to the rest of the house. Like, Lindsey just got so upset with me, and Lindsey treats me this way, and Lindsey's not supportive of anything when Lindsey's not doing anything that he's accusing her of doing.

So I think he's going into these purposely. He already knows break up with her at this point. I think he's so. I think he's coming in purposely having these conversations with her to set her off, and she's not being set off, but he's still reacting like she has been set off and using the same lines that he can. It's like when you practice for a fight, and it just doesn't go the same way, but you're still using those, like, fake slams you made up in your head.

And I think that's what he's doing. It's like, oh, that's so awkward. Anytime you see me driving in traffic, everyone just know I'm having an amazing argument where I'm totally winning. No, but I think so, again, like, my. My interpretation is that, like, I guess it's so funny.

Ben Mandelker

I love that we're arguing over, like, subtle interpretations of what Carl was doing where we largely agree, but my interpretation is that, like, I don't feel like he came into the summer trying to, like, oh, I'm just gonna gaslight Lindsey and make her look terrible. But I do think that he came in with the idea of, like, I want to test her. I'm gonna put her in these tests and see how she passes the tests. And if she doesn't pass the test, like, it proves, you know, but the tests and the tests make her go crazy. Right?

So, which then her going crazy then just verifies, or that validates his suspicions, meaning that he's like, well, I'm gonna see if she's gonna be supportive right now. I'm gonna pitch this idea. I want to do lover boy and watch. I guarantee she won't be supportive. And so then he does.

He says that he does this thing, and then she's not supportive, and then he's like, see, it's just as I suspected. And then, therefore, it's, like, held against her, and she doesn't even know she's being put to a test. Yeah, that's an interesting. You know, look, we're not going to agree on it, because I just look at it, and it's okay. Like, we don't have to agree.

Ronnie Karam

I just. The reason I think that is because they were going, what I said, we. Literally don't have to agree on. On this. On this argument about what Carl's intentions were.

Ben Mandelker

But it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. But the whole thing with me is that they started this season, scandal ball was going on. So I think that everybody was like, oh, shit. You know, look at this.

Ronnie Karam

I mean, that was such a huge thing. It was on the COVID of every magazine. It was everywhere. It's literally. They've mentioned it three times on this show.

Like, just those two. So I think he was like, oh, shit. I can't just dump Lindsey. I'm going to become him. I'm going to become this pariah.

I can't just do that. I have to show everybody. Why? And what a fucking monster Lindsay is, which Lindsay can be a monster. I'm not.

I'm not saying like, lindsay, some princess and so innocent, but I think he's coming into this like, I'm going to go on tv and I'm going to save my ass and show everybody that she's a fucking emotional terrorist and they're going to be on my side when he. And it almost worked well, because Lindsey played into that very hard in the beginning. I still believe he was in those ubers that we didn't see any footage of poking at Lindsey, poking at Lindsey, trying to get her to go off. And then when she did go off, he was going, why are you going off? I still believe that 100%.

And now she stopped. It's like she got ahold of herself and was like, he's, he's fucking with me. I'm going to stop letting him fuck with me. And now she's not giving you the response. And he start, we're seeing him visibly spin out of control now that he's not getting this response that he wants from Lindsey.

And it's just cracking me up. I just see like one big fuck boy, douchebag, gaslighting narcissist being completely foiled at every turn. And I love it. Yeah, I mean, I definitely do believe that Carl, because he's like conflict avoidant, that he is definitely been positioning himself, like, to not be the bad guy when he eventually dumps her. I think he knows he does.

Ben Mandelker

This isn't going to work out. He wants to dump her. We see it from the top of the season. He wants to. He wants to dump her, but he doesn't want to be the bad guy.

He doesn't want to be. Actually, I think the way that that scandal ball really affects it is that I don't. I think he doesn't want to be Sandoval. I don't think he wants to get the bad press and have a thing. Okay.

So I do think that the way it's impacted is not like I thought you were saying, like, oh, Sandoval. But doesn't matter what I thought you said. It's clarified now. The point is he doesn't want to be the bad guy. And so he is going to try to, like, position.

And so I fully believe he's trying to position. I don't. I. I think my thing is I don't think it's quite as like, as conspiratorial as, like every one of these situations is like, I'm gonna have this conversation to make her look bad. But I think what happens is he has these conversations, and then when, like, when there's conflict, he.

That's when he goes into the mode of, like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna just be, like, the good guy here. I'm gonna make. Make her seem like the wild one. I'm gonna be the good guy, and then everyone will understand me.

So it's just, like, a real subtlety that we're. That we're arguing over, which is what always happens on this show, I think. I mean, the main thing that. The main difference I can see between our two arguments is you have a general belief that Carl's a decent person and that he's not coming into this as a total villain, trying to just gaslight for no reason. I don't.

Ronnie Karam

I think Carl's an asshole, and I think Carl, who's out of this a long time, and he does not give a shit about this person at all, because if he did, he wouldn't be acting. He wouldn't be purposely villainizing somebody to make himself look better. You don't do that to somebody that you like. And I think that when he brought his parents on, that's the ultimate. And when he's.

When he's naming his brother and his brother's death and comparing Lindsey to, like, this dress is what killed my brother, you know, when he's doing stuff like that, that's putting someone in a certain light. You just don't do that to people that you like or you have any modicum of respect for. So I don't know that he's, like, a total villain, and, like, I'm gonna just fuck this person over for no reason. I just think he's an absolutely weak person. I think he's weak, and he doesn't want to look bad to America, and so he's gonna.

He's gonna throw Lindsey under the bus so that he can be a huge victim and everything. And I just think that makes him a fucking terrible human being. Like, I hope she's never friends with this asshole again, because this guy's just a shithead. Well, I agree. I think that he is a shithead.

Ben Mandelker

I think he's weak. He doesn't. He didn't know. He. He.

He got. He dove into a relationship thinking it was going to solve his problems. He dove into it thinking that it was going to make him a big boy, he was going to be an adult. He was going to get a job. He's going to do all these things, and then none of that really panned out.

And on top of that, now he's left realizing this is not the relationship he wants to be in, but he doesn't want to break up with her. He's in too deep, and he's conflict avoidant. I do agree that he is happy to create situations where she looks like the one who is. Is chaotic and unhinged, and then he's just like, oh, I'm just, like, just trying to keep it all together, guys. So I do agree that he's trying to do that.

I just. I don't think that, like, in a conversation like this, he is like, I'm gonna take Lindsay in there and try to make her look like a crazy. I think that he. Oh, yeah, I do. I think he brought her in because he wants to test her to be like, let's see if she supports me, because if she doesn't pass, if she doesn't pass this test, that will prove that she doesn't support me, and everyone will see that, and then I can dump her.

But I don't think he's saying, I'm gonna bring her in here to make her look crazy. I think it's. Oh, yeah, I do. Because I think he's done with her. I don't think there's any way done.

Ronnie Karam

I think he's already. I think he's already done. So what's there to test? Like, he's already decided he's leaving her. He's just setting up the stage to leave her.

So I don't think there's any test here. I think he's already completely done. So he's just like, let's make. Let's make her look like a bitch on my way out. But you know what?

We don't agree. And you know what? Something else we never agree on summer house. But it's also, I mean, this is. One of the more inconsistent.

This is a constant thing with us, is we agree pretty much on every show, but this, this one we never do. And it's so interesting. This is such an inconsequential thing to disagree on. It's literally like, we agree on this relationship, and we're just more sports. Did he come it.

Ben Mandelker

Did he come into this art, this discussion to make her look crazy, or did he come into this discussion to. I guess it's more like, I think he came into the discussion to. I think in some, to be like, this is. I thought. I feel like it was performative to show that he was a big boy, and he wanted to test her to see, like, well, like, let's see America.

Let's see if she fought. Let's. Let's see. It's. How about maybe it's not a test.

How about he put her on trial with America? He's like, let's see. I'm being a big boy. Let's see if she, if she. But why do you put somebody on trial?

Ronnie Karam

You're prosecuting them. On trial yourself. It's. He's the. I don't, maybe not know.

Then he would be, he would feel like he was on trial and defending him. If you're putting someone on trial. Look, he's basically, I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I just don't.

We're just on a different page about it. That's okay. We don't have to agree. I see what you're saying. I just don't give Carl that much credit.

I think, in general, what we're saying, I think in general, I'm just a more cynical person than you are, obviously. I mean, I think that's obvious, and I think I. You have more good will and hope in humanity than I do, and I think that's good. I would never want to. I don't think.

I love that about you. I don't think he came in with good intentions. I just don't think he came in with purely, like, as malicious intentions as I feel like you're, you're proposing. Well, I think they were malicious, but I think they were malicious out of babyish reasons. I don't think he's like, us swirling villain.

I just think he's a pussy. I've already got to say, the more we talk about this, the more I'm just gonna get myself sorry I call someone a pussy. Okay. I feel like Carl is very performative, and he cares a lot about what America thinks. And I think this was a moment where he wanted to cosplay as someone on a real job search, doing, like, really trying to find his career or whatever, and he wants a show like, yeah, I've got this job that's lined up.

Ben Mandelker

I think it's really good. Look, America, I am. Look at me. I'm the mature one. I am.

I've got my shit together. And so it kind of, like, it feeds into what you're saying. Sorry, I just hit my mic. It feeds into what you're saying. And that, like, it's not, I guess, in my mind, it's not that he is actually trying to make Lyn like, comes into the conversation to make Lindsay look bad.

I think he comes in the conversation trying to make himself look really good. And so he's like, look at me. I'm. I'm getting my shit together. Lindsey gave me an ultimatum, which we can all agree was totally irrational and not something you would do someone that you love.

But I rose the challenge and I did it, and I figured it out. And she's like, no, you didn't. And that's when he's like, well, fuck you. You're the one who's like, you're unhinged right now because you're not supporting me in this moment, and you're making me look bad in front of America. Yeah, but don't you think he had some idea that she was going to be like Kyle?

Ronnie Karam

The one that you told me you were in the fetal position from. From traumatizing you? Well, he did know, which is why he tiptoed around it, because he was like. He's like, let me see if I can kind of, like, finesse this. He says he's so good at sales, he can't even sell this job to his wife.

Ben Mandelker

His future wife. Yeah, no kidding. That's exactly right. So anyway, let's go on with this. So they're still in this conversation, right?

Ronnie Karam

So he's like, I'm just like, I'm not going to just yes everything and say yes to everything, Carl. And goes, well, I'm not asking for that. She goes, yeah, but I'm not critiquing you. I'm just putting everything on the table because that's real, you know? And he's like, oh, now you're the victim?

She goes, well, I'm not the victim. Now I'm gonna go cry. So thanks a lot. Like, she finally loses it, but she walks off, right? So he's like, oh, God, no, you're gonna cry.

What's this about you right now? Why is this about you? Because, Carol, I'm sitting here trying to be a really good partner to you. Oh. And I'm just asking for more.

Ben Mandelker

I'm asking for something different. Yeah, you want me just to say yes? Go for it. Yeah, I do. So now he does admit that that's all he wants.

Because without asking any questions, I guess you had ten minutes ago and you couldn't even answer, you said no. And by the way, he's. All he wants is something different, which is why he's going back to lover boy for the guy who called him a cokehead all season. Last season. Great.

Ronnie Karam

Hope you get. Hope you enjoy that. Something different. Stupid. Also, you're just gonna, like, walk away.

Ben Mandelker

Yeah. You ruined my dinner last night, and now you're ruining my pool party. Oh, your pool party. Your dinner.

Think about how you deliver. Literally. Terrible. Okay, so now he goes outside, of course, to be like, what a bitch, you know? Which we all knew.

Ronnie Karam

So the girls are. It's like the girls are on one side, and the guys are on the other side. And so Lindsey's like, I mean, I'm asking him how his meeting went this morning with the Wusan guy, and from the jump, he's all defensive because I'm asking all these questions, and he's like, I just want you to support me. By the way, still not coming out there being like, this fucking dick. Yeah.

You know? And Amanda's like, well, I think that he thinks that you're questioning him. And she's like, I'm not. And Amanda goes, God, men are so fragile. Which really is the theme of this episode, really, the show, actually.

Ben Mandelker

Truly. But definitely this episode. So then Carl's like, whoa. I told her a little bit about what we're talking about, and I just feel like we're still kind of, like, massaging that and, like, what that could look like. And she's basically like, you're going back to your old ex.

Like, she's like, of course I'm gonna have opinions about it. And Kyle's like, gotta be honest. Everything she said about your career so far, I don't think she's pointed you down any type of path that makes any sense. She's just closing doors and then give me our dime after she closed him. Well, that's because if Lindsey were to give Carl career advice, like, whoa.

Well, it's just like, I feel like I can't even do anything. Like, she's always, like, telling me what to do. Like, she's probably trying to, like, get him to make his own decisions because she doesn't want to make decisions for him. She hasn't given him any career advice either, so I don't even know what Kyle's talking about. No, that's what.

That's what Kyle says. Kyle's like, by the way, like, she's. All she does is say no to your ideas. But she doesn't actually, like, chime in with any thoughts about. She doesn't.

Ronnie Karam

She doesn't send you down any type of path that makes sense. She hasn't sent him down any path. Let's just don't get him. So Amanda's over with Amanda. She's like, I mean, it's valid for you to want to know if you're getting married and having kids.

You need to know what's going on. Like, those decisions affect your family. So then back to Carl. Carly's like, carly? That's my sister.

Sorry, Carly. Love you. She joined the show. Yeah. He's like, well, she thinks she's being supportive by being a devil's advocate.

And I got that. I got that. But I've been getting that for the past eight months, by the way. The past eight months that I've been talking about not being able to go on job interviews because I'm so traumatized by you. Kyle.

Let's just pretend that part of the conversation didn't happen. But, you know, I'm traumatized by Lindsay. Not you. Today. By Lindsay today.

But when I go back to Lindsay, it's gonna be that I've been traumatized by you for eight months. So I'm just traumatized by everybody. Poor Carl. Help. Trauma police.

I'm always traumatized. I just feel like anything I bring up is just, like, instantly critiqued. It's like, yeah, because you bring up stupid ideas. Like, that's what happens. So that's like, you're.

Ben Mandelker

You're acting like you're just some innocent here, but you're not, like, doing the work. So Lindsay's like, well, yeah, I do get concerned that he doesn't have, like, fire to match my fire. And Paige was like, um, are you always gonna have to be in control? Because that's, like, a lot of stress. And, like, you already look pretty old.

So I just am saying. And, like, that's mentally exhausting just knowing that any problem that, like, now comes up for the rest of your life, you're, like, in charge of that now. Like, that's gross. Stupid. And Sierra's like, yeah, you don't want to fuck someone who's not gonna drive the ship.

I'm just, like, overwhelmed to touch the steering wheel. So Sierra's like, yeah, like, if Lindsay is always leaving the ship, and Carl's passenger princess, which I thought was funny, passenger princess, she would find that hard to be attracted to. Like, yeah. She's like, I understand why their sex life is not really working out so well. So.

Ronnie Karam

Jesse is like, you know, I think it's fair for Lindsay to have questions, you know? But honestly, then Carl finds an opportunity, and she shoots him down. But I understand her concern. I'm Switzerland on this one, which I was actually glad to hear because I feel like most of the season, Jesse's just bought Carl's load of bullshit and been like, yeah, dude, fuck Lindsay. You know?

But I think he's starting to get the. He's starting to see who Carl is, and he's like, jesse definitely did the. Ben Mandelker, which is like, well, I see it this way, but I can also see how someone could see it that way. But then again, I still see it this way. You know, I'm just gonna stay out of it.

Ben Mandelker

That's my. That's my way of approaching everything. So, Lindsay, I don't know. It's bad. They go on with their day.

Ronnie Karam

Now they're gonna go to now's boat time, right? They go to a boat. They go to a boat called the jubilants, which is funny because, like, everyone here is so miserable. And they're swimming. Kyle's on a seabob, and his bathing suit falls off, and he loses.

Ben Mandelker

And so he has to wear Sierra's shorts. So it's the second time this season that he's dressed in Sierra's clothing. And then Sierra starts. She's, like, napping on the boat later on. And so Wes is telling Paige he's gonna surprise her with, like, a horseback ride on Tuesday.

And Sierra's like, oh, my God. That's great. I love Ciara so much. I would literally die for her. Well, not really die, but, like, I maybe, like, push Danielle into the water for her.

Anyway, anytime she's talking to a guy, it's like, you know, like, I'm gonna check up or whatever, and if I hear something, I'm Emily. Gonna run to her. So, anyway, what's this with you texting other girls? Like, is that what happened? Because Lindsey says you're attacking other girls.

It's like, well, yeah. And the other day, I heard Lindsey talking, and she said, oops, I crapped my pants. Oh, I'm sorry. That's not the part I was gonna say. She said, wait, I fell down, and I can't get up.

Sorry. I'm just coming up with random old things. What did she. Oh, yeah. Are you fucking other people?

Ronnie Karam

He's like, oh, me? No, no. And he starts talking in his good little voice. His good little boy voice. That's a.

That's a voice we hear on Bravo quite a bit. We've got the Tom Schwartz. We've got the. The shep. The good little boy.

Ben Mandelker

Yeah. I'm not saying west is anything like those people, but we do get the. What? No. Texting other people?

Ronnie Karam

No. I am optimistic that he is not having sex with anyone outside of Sierra, because also, I find the joy of being surprised by a scandal is way more fun than the joy of being right. I love it. I love, like, it was so fun being shocked by scandal rather than. I know, you know why?

It's because it's so much rarer than that feeling of being right. Exactly.

But, yeah, I'm consciously optimistic as well. But I'm also triggered. I'm also traumatized by these shows, and so that. Where that's coming from. And also, he doesn't owe, you know, celibacy to anybody.

But I just think that if you want, you know, obviously, it's gonna be necessary with c, if you want somebody of that quality. Yeah. The least you could do is not fuck somebody for a couple months. But. So he definitely is not so good for him.

Ben Mandelker

He does a whole spiel about how it's, like, weird for him to be exclusive with someone that you're not having sex with. And also, like, if you're dating someone, you're either gonna marry them or you're gonna have a super sad day. And that's all scary for him. And it's like, I know that's the most immature thing I've said in the studio, but I don't care. That's how I feel.

I'm both a dramatic. I like the challenge. I like that. I thought that was cute. And also, you know what else is cute?

Ronnie Karam

His new hair. So I don't know. He's. I like the winning New York. I'll say it.

You, too? I thought the puffy bangs worked on him more than the split. The. The split part. It's just not.

Ben Mandelker

I'm not into it. So Paige is like, listen, I feel like, you know, friends of girls that you're talking to are always like, oh, I'll kill you if you hurt her. And they're like, whatever, but I, like, genuinely will kill you. Like, kill you. Remember Jordan?

Yeah. No one remembers him. Cause I killed him. He's gone. Don't fuck with Sierra.

Yeah. Cause Sierra's really a bloop. A what? A bloop. Sorry.

Ronnie Karam

I'm sorry. I was saying bloop. But they keep bleeping it off camera ever since they tried to go to that restaurant in real househouse of New York. Sorry. Inside joke from a long time ago.

Nobody watched that show. So, anyway, don't fuck her over. Okay, so then Danielle is driving the pontoon, which I don't think Danielle has ever looked more at home on a. Pontoon driving a pontoon directly at rocks. The captain goes, hey, so you see those dots coming up?

Ben Mandelker

Those are rocks. So let's. Let's. Let's move the boat. She's like, whoops.

Ronnie Karam

Danielle is like the pontoon of boats on Bravo. Yeah. Um, so, you know, Kyle loses the shore. He's still wacky. I've got a mullet.

Ben Mandelker

I'm. I'm naked in the water. It's crazy, Kyle. It's fucking crazy. So now Amanda sits down with Kyle, and they start talking about tarot cards, and she's like.

Ronnie Karam

I mean, it was basically, like, she told me, like, to update my LinkedIn profile and leaf lover boy. It was, like, crazy Kyle. Wait, what? So that reminds me, I wanted to talk to you about, you know, like, having my own goals outside lover boy. Because if you take away Kyle and larva boy, like, who is Amanda?

Ben Mandelker

I go, no one knows. Ha ha. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We all know you're just my wife.

So she goes, well, I was thinking, you know, like, I feel so supportive of your dream and your business, and, you know, marriage is supporting each other, and I've been supportive of your dream and your business. He's like, well, it's our dream because I've said so. Yeah, no, it's our dream to be successful, but lover boy is your thing and your baby. And not that I want to walk away from lover boy, but, like, you know, wouldn't it be fun if, like, lover boy, I, like, walked down the sidewalk and then, like, looked behind, looked like, oh, hi, lover boy. I just walked down the sidewalk, and I walked a little bit further, like, bye, lover boy.

I'm still here. Then walked around the corner and be like, I'm gonna text lover boy. You can't see me, but I'm still here. And maybe I just leave it entirely, but I'm still there, you know? Right?

Ronnie Karam

There are so many times on this show where I just feel like, how many couples can we take? You just had the Carl and Lindsey drama, and now we've got Kyle acting like this. I mean, I'm team Amanda. I can't believe Amanda comes up to him and says, okay, this is your dream. I got on board.

Well, it's our dream. Okay. But, you know, I would want to do something maybe for myself. Oh, really? You're gonna abandon me now at a time like this?

We literally have nothing. We've losing money now. You did. And she's like, but I'm not saying I'm leaving. I'm just saying I kind of want something for myself.

Ben Mandelker

Oh, really? Thanks a lot. It's like, oh, God, I was. What a fucking choice child. I was a little surprised.

I feel like they fought so much in the beginning of the season, and then lately, they've been giving them the edit. Like, oh, they started doing therapy with a 23 year old, you know, person who is, like, a life coach adjacent. And now everything's better. So I thought, like, oh, Kyle's gonna be like, amanda, whatever you need. I just want to support you.

Cause I love you so much. But he was not like that at all. Now, by the way, also, maybe not the wisest thing to bring this up while your husband is shit faced. Not. When is he not shit faced?

Ronnie Karam

He's. He's fall down drunk all the time. And people on the. And Kyle himself and other people and comments and stuff are like, stop giving Kyle so much shit. I mean, it's the weekend.

He works his ass off all week. It's just a week. He's the only one this drunk all the time. Nobody else is like this. Why is nobody else on the cast?

Slurring their words from morning to night every single day, pissing all over. All over the backyard, getting naked. No one else is like that. This guy's a fucking mess. He's tragic.

He's tragic. At this point, I can't believe Amanda's still with this person. Leave. Run. Run, girl.

Ben Mandelker

So she is. So she's like, I feel like you're just, like, such a big personality, and I. I live in your shadow. He's like, well, I want to support you in whatever you do, but I also need your help. He's like, no, no, I'm not leaving the team.

I'm not leaving the company. But I just want to be a little selfish. I, like, think of all the sacrifices I made for you. I quit my job. I stopped what I was doing.

I was like, well, you were someone else. He's like, basically, like, I gave you everything. How could you do this to me? I gave you the life that you wanted. You were working for the man now.

You could work for yourself and by yourself. I mean, for me, a different man. You worked for a man with money, and now you're working for a company that just lost $1.5 million, is what I'm hearing. And she's like, no, but, like, you know, I'm. I came here to help you achieve your dreams and goals, and we're gonna do it together.

He's, well, guess what? I haven't achieved them. So I need a little bit more help. I think you've achieved your dreams, which is that you started up a beverage company. It started up.

It's been a few years now, is no longer a startup. It's a has started. Yeah. So Kyle's like, yeah, you know, so he talks about how they're losing money because for the first time ever, they've lost $1.5 million the first half of the year. And now, you know, if they're not making money in August, what's it gonna be like in winter when partying season's over?

Ronnie Karam

And, you know, now that they're going through it, Amanda wants to bail on him, which she said 19,000 times that she doesn't want to bail. But I think it's so funny how when she says what she needs, which are, hey, maybe those kids you started talking about, or maybe to move to the burbs, or maybe to get serious and not go out fucking wasted every night in the city with strangers. She says what he wants, and he acts like he won't even address it. But she says one little thing she wants, which is getting a second job. It's not even leading your crutch and sobbing and throwing a literal fucking temper tantrum.

You child. Yeah, fucking child. Grow up. The male fragility on this episode was out of control and unbelievable. He's like.

Ben Mandelker

And then he's like, I need you more than ever. I need you more than you could ever know. Now, look, Amanda's a graphic designer. I envy graphic designers. I think what graphic designers do are so cool.

But, like, he's acting like, Amanda's Photoshop skills is, like, without them, this company is going to implode. Like, you just hire a different graphic designer. You can get another graphic designer. It's not the end of the world. And Amanda can consult, and they can say, what do you think about this, Amanda?

She'd be like, I like this. Maybe adjust this and do something. I don't understand. This is not like we're losing Steve jobs here. We are.

Like. Like, the company will go on with a different graphic designer. I think he likes having the control of having her there. He's the boss. He can, you know, talk to.

Ronnie Karam

Talk to her how he wants all day. Tell her what to do. Why are you on your phone? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because when he's not drinking, he's super serious.

Well, that's the thing. Like, we don't see that side on the show too much because he's always drunk. But when he's not working. He's just very like, all right, we're going to talk about business, right? And so I think the thought.

I think it's. I don't know, it's threatening to weird animator doing anything else for anybody else. And then she has a life, and then she has friends, and then she's going out with more people, and then there's other men involved because she's talking to people at work. And I think he's got a lot of control issues. Well, he doesn't like.

Ben Mandelker

He doesn't like being left behind. He gets upset when the party. He's missing out on the party. He gets upset when he's missing out on the good times. He just does.

He doesn't want to be left out. Like, there might be something better that's his own shit he has to work on. And what's the crazy part, though, is that she says a million times, I am not leaving. I just want to develop something for myself. And he just can't hear it.

It's so obnoxious and so frustrating. And I actually. I felt so bad for Amanda because, like, this really actually could have been a beautiful moment for their relationship, where he says, honey, I would love nothing more to support you. And instead, it's like he's just making it about him. And so now they dock.

And Paige, of course, I think it. Also might be something to do with age, because I think he's so insecure about his age and being older than her. And she, you know, do you remember, like, the giggly squad podcast is called that? Cause Kyle got mad and was like. Oh, the giggly squad over there.

Ronnie Karam

And so they named a whole podcast, which is now, like, one of the top podcasts in the country, which is hilarious. But he's always had some kind of weird thing about, like, she's always giggling behind his back. You know, it's like, there they are. It's all these people giggling. Then he shows up with a mullet, and he's trying to run around naked and like, well, hello, the water took my pants.

And now she's like, if she goes to another job, she's just gonna be surrounded by more people her age. She's gonna be having more fun instead of just, like, sitting on the couch like a fuddy duddy or being at her parents house, you know? And I think he's probably threatened. Well, also think about, like, all these hours and work and effort that he puts in to love her. Boy, I think giggly squad, like, Paige and Hannah are just like, hey, let's hop on the microphone and, like, you know, talk about whatever we're gonna talk about.

Ben Mandelker

And they're like, boom. Instant success. So, like, I'm sure there's, like, some resentment that he has there and, like, also some. Maybe there's like, I think he just thinks he's gonna be left behind. He's putting in all this work.

He's gonna be left behind. So they get back. He will be if he keeps this shit up. Because at some point you mature enough to where you're like, oh, it's not cute. Like, you think sometimes when you're dating with someone older that they understand more than you inherently because they're older.

Ronnie Karam

And then you kind of realize that that's bullshit. As you get older, you realize, oh, I never knew anything more than I did when I was 15. You realize what bullshit it is, and that magic goes away real quick. Yeah. So they docked the boat, and Paige is like, thank you so much, captain, whoever you are.

Ben Mandelker

Mister Pontoon. He's like, yeah, thanks, man. That was awesome. A little overwhelmed, by the way. I don't know if I can get off this, pontoon.

I'm just like, really overwhelmed. A lot of my play. I don't know. You're making all about you, pontoon. Oh, it's all about you jubilants all the time.

Ha ha. So back at the house, Jesse starts crying to west about, you know, being nervous. It is so sad. It's sad that, like, oh, I feel. I just feel so bad for him.

That is so, so scary. I just, you know. And then Sierra's like, where were you guys this whole time? Were you crying or something? And wes like, I wasn't, but dot dot, dot, dot dot dot.

Ronnie Karam

Which is cool. So then Kyle is outside. Okay. So then Kyle comes up to. They're not outside.

He comes up to Amanda and he's like, so just want you to know. Can I just have 2 seconds of your time? I just want to let you know in a much more calm way about how you're wrong and you can't leave me. Yeah, listen, it doesn't have to be a prolonged thing. I just like, as you know our business, there's like, a lot of stress.

Ben Mandelker

So I apologize for being a little concerned about yourself. So then he, like, storms off. Fuck you. And he slams the door behind him and like, there. Fucking bitch.

And Gabby's like, honestly, like, who is slamming the door? That is not necessary. Was that. Was that the tower reader? Was she here all this time?

Ronnie Karam

Did she just slam the door only on fashion.

So Kyle's tirading outside, throwing something. He's like, ah. Carl's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. To Lindsay, just not believing your dream. What happened?

And I'm done trying to pretend it's okay for me to babysit my fucking wife. Really? Because you're the one going peepee in your pants. She's the one who things literally. She's the one who's literally asking to do something independently.

Ben Mandelker

And, yeah, you're. You're so it's not okay. I have to always babysit her. She's literally saying, I want to leave the house. I want to go to the movies.

So he's like, oh, so she wants that. A passion project. She wants to have a purpose. Okay, cool. Which, by the way, I am like, this condescending ass line of rhetorical questions, go fuck yourself.

So. And he's like, you know what? You know what I want to be? I want to be a DJ. I want to be a fucking DJ.

But right now I'm trying to build a fucking future. Imagine someone working 18 hours a day and then being ridiculed for how hard they work. Literally none of that. Well, I mean, it happened. I mean, Amanda has ridiculed you about a lot of things, and Amanda is no angel, but in this specific situation, none of that happened.

And I'm sorry that you are going through your classic midlife crisis right now and you want to be a DJ. And I'm sorry for you on many levels that that is an ambition for you, but, like, get over it. I don't think he really wants that. I think he's just saying, oh, really? So she wants to do something stupid and worthless, and I'll think of something stupid and worthless.

I think he really wants to be a date. What if I did that? He always has those speakers denigrating what she wants to do as if it's like some stupid, childish. Well, but either way, either way, he. Your interpretation.

My interpretation, it doesn't matter because ultimately he's fully disparaging the notion that she wants to do something for herself. Yeah, and Carl's just looking at him. He's like, whoa, you're really pissed off. He's like, yeah, she thinks she works for me. Well, I'm like, no, if you work for me, you'd be fucking fired.

Ronnie Karam

Well, really, if you work for anybody else, you would be fired. 1.5 million in loss this year. Shut the fuck up over there. Question. Did you just say that you work 18 hours a day?

Ben Mandelker

So I may have to rethink this lover boy position. Sorry. Ha. So. Bit much for me.

So I think, actually, by the way, I think Amanda would like to be fired from lever boy. What part of her showing up late sleeping through meetings says that she's motivated and wants to be at this job? She's begging, begging to be fired. No. What a mess.

Ronnie Karam

My God, these guys. Terrible. Anyway, these couples like, just terrible fucking couples. My God. Who wants to watch this?

Ben Mandelker

I do. Fun on the valley. Those are more fun, terrible couples. Oh, no, this is wonderful for me. I'm.

This is filling up my veins. I am like, doubled them. Her eyes bulging. This is great. Great tv.

Just have to soak it in. All right, everyone. Well, thank you so much for being here. Fun week of recaps. We'll be back next week with another full slate and we'll catch you on the next episode.

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Ben Mandelker

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#2420 Summer House S08E12: Passenger Princess

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1. Introduction

2. Carl and Lindsay's Dynamics

3. Group Dynamics and Reactions

4. Recap and Conclusions

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