Shattering The Silicon Ceiling: Writing Your Own Story with Mai Ton, Founder & CEO EMP HR Consulting

This episode explores the journey and challenges of Mai Ton, a notable technology executive and founder of EMP HR Consulting, focusing on her unique experiences and the impact of cultural background on her career.

1. Overcoming Cultural Barriers: Mai's upbringing in a traditional family initially hindered but eventually propelled her unique path in the tech industry.
2. Empowering Women in Tech: Highlighting the disparity in female leadership in technology, Mai is dedicated to mentoring and supporting women to achieve executive roles.
3. Importance of Authenticity: Authentic leadership fosters better relationships and workplace culture, crucial for personal and organizational success.
4. Navigating Corporate Changes: Insight into Mai's strategies for managing team dynamics and operational challenges in fast-paced startup environments.
5. Role of Resilience: Mai's journey underscores the importance of resilience and adaptability in both personal growth and professional success.

1. Introduction

Thomas Igeme introduces Mai Ton, outlining her background and the episode's focus on breaking industry barriers. Thomas Igeme: "Today, we're unraveling the inspiring story of Mai Ton."

2. Childhood Influences

Discussion on how Mai's family and cultural background shaped her leadership style. Mai Ton: "I am from a Vietnamese family where being the youngest meant often being overlooked."

3. Career Journey

Mai shares her path from being underestimated to becoming a respected tech leader. Mai Ton: "I always feel like the underdog, which has shaped me in a way that now I can root for the underdogs."

4. Challenges and Achievements

Mai discusses the challenges she faced in the corporate world and her achievements despite them. Mai Ton: "Employees do better when you give them the full context of what's happening."

5. Leadership and Mentorship

Mai talks about her role in mentoring young talent and promoting inclusivity. Mai Ton: "I'm committed to building bridges for the next generation."

1. Stay Curious and Ask Questions: This helps in understanding and navigating complex professional environments.
2. Embrace Your Background: Use your unique perspective to offer something different in your professional sphere.
3. Advocate for Inclusion: Promote and support diversity in your workplace to enrich the corporate culture.
4. Be Authentic: Authenticity in leadership can inspire trust and loyalty among team members.
5. Learn from Challenges: Use professional setbacks as learning opportunities to enhance your resilience.

In this episode of Venture Visionaries, we spotlight Mai Ton, Founder of EMP HR Consulting and an acclaimed executive known for her leadership in Human Resources across tech startups in San Francisco and New York. The episode provides a rare glimpse into Mai’s journey from her early family life to her achievements in the tech world, offering listeners a blend of personal anecdotes and professional wisdom. Focusing on leadership, workplace dynamics, and the importance of authenticity, this episode is a must-listen for anyone aspiring to navigate and succeed in the complexities of today’s tech industry.

People

Mai Ton

Companies

EMP HR Consulting

Books

"Come into My Office: Stories from an HR Leader in Silicon Valley" by Mai Ton

Content Warnings:

None

Mai Ton

You kind of get rewarded for asking questions and staying curious. The more I force myself to do it, the more natural it's going to be for me. Employees do better when you give them the full context of what's happening to. Venture visionaries, the pod podcast where we dive deep into the journeys of some of the most influential leaders in the tech and business world. I'm your host, Thomas Igeme, and today we're going to unravel the inspiring story of Maitan.

Thomas Igeme

Imagine, if you will, a young girl growing up in a structured, traditional asian american household. She's the youngest of her siblings and is often overlooked due to her birth order, but she has dreams that are bigger than her environment dared to contain, and she pursues them. You fast forward to today and that young girl has transformed into one of the top 50 most powerful women in technology, an award winning executive and a beacon of leadership and innovation in startups based in San Francisco and New York. In an industry where there are very few women leaders and even fewer asian american women leaders, she has broken new ground again and again. This is the story of Maitan.

Mai's journey is not just about her meteoric rise in the tech industry. It's deeply interwoven with her experiences growing up in her unique cultural lens. From facing her parents'initial disapproval of her choices to pursue sociology over more traditional professions to shattering the glass ceiling that keeps many talented women from executive roles in Silicon Valley, hers is a testament to the power of finding one's voice amidst the cacophony of societal expectations. In her book, come into my Office, stories from an HR leader in Silicon Valley, Mai deals with the stark reality that in today's tech companies, only 10% of women find themselves in executive roles. Through her anecdotes and insights, she offers a fresh perspective on why this is the case, providing an insider's view of life in a tech startup.

But Mai's not just about breaking barriers. She's committed to building bridges for the next generation, mentoring talent, and advocating for equity and inclusion in the tech world, making it easier for those who come after her. We're going to be exploring various facets of Mai's life and career in our conversation today, from the influences of her childhood and family, the significance of allies in the workplace, to the evolving role of people leaders in today's fast paced environment. We're going to discuss the complexities of navigating executive team changes, the importance of diplomacy and civility in the workplace, and perhaps most importantly of all, the power of authenticity in breaking barriers Mai believes deeply in the power of tech for good. And as a board member of leadership education for Asian Pacifics Leap, a CEO coach, and an advisor for HR tech companies, she is putting that belief into action.

Hers is a story of resilience, determination, and the relentless pursuit of change for the better. So buckle up as we delve into the extraordinary life of Maitan, and maybe, just maybe, we'll find some inspiration to foster change in our own lives and workplaces. Let's dive in.

So if you just think back on your childhood, what were some of the formative moments that I think have influenced the kind of leader you've grown into? I am the youngest of five, Thomas. I am from a vietnamese family, and my father was part of the military. And I think we grew up in a very structured household with very traditional asian patterns. And one of the patterns that's always stuck with me is that as the youngest child, nobody listens to you.

Mai Ton

It was sort of like, you know what? I had four siblings ahead of me who were different in age. So my sister is the oldest. I have three brothers in between. And then there's me.

My sister and I are eight years apart. So that age gap is big even today. We just got through the holidays, and I'm still the youngest one at the table among my siblings. And so you know what Mai's craving? Tex Mex food.

But does Mai get it? No, because you know what my sister's craving? Something else. And so I think that's been something that I've thought about is just sort of birth order as well as the asian family. And as I was growing up, I then became a liberal arts major, and my parents, who were very like, as an asian family, you are either an accountant, an engineer, a doctor, or a lawyer.

Those were the four professions. They were like, what is sociology? I remember my mother asking, what do I tell my friends that you graduated with? I tried to explain to her what sociology is, and she said, can I just tell them you're a pharmacy major? And it was sort of that disregard again of, like, lost cause.

Fifth. It's okay. She graduated. Good. But I carry that through as a thread in who I am because I always feel like the underdog, or I always feel underestimated, but it's actually shaped me in a way that now I can root for the underdogs and help those that perhaps don't have the privilege of being the oldest or being the one that everybody puts their hopes into.

So, Thomas, you're going deep early with me. I love that I'm curious about two things. What do you kind of attribute that response of, like, well, I'm going to fight and I'm still going to put my voice in. Where does that come from? And if you think about kind of my starting off in HR leadership to my, the author, come into my office where you're truly owning your voice and sharing it with the world literally on the page, where do you associate that strength from?

And has it just always been there, or did it evolve from kind of your first role to who you are now? Thomas, the funny thing is that I feel very lucky and very privileged. I had people who actually saw something in me that I did not see in myself. Because you're right. Our cultural traditions, our heritage, our background, shape who we become for some reason, even though perhaps I was taught to be silenced or you will respect your elders, so only talk when you're spoken to.

Mai Ton

I just threw that out the window because I was growing up in America, too. You kind of get rewarded for asking questions and staying curious and chiming in and trying to articulate yourself. So I feel that early on in my career, I had mentors and people that saw something in me that perhaps I overlooked in myself. But you asked where my voice comes from. I actually think it's because I got tired.

I got tired of fighting a fight that I was like, why am I in this position? Well, you know what? I have to change it. If I want to change my own outlook or the way I'm being perceived, then I have to take control of my own circumstance. So that's what I did.

I actually said, you know what? Even if my English is my second language and I'm not as articulate as I want to be, or I couldn't come up with a very clever, witty comeback, I just said, you know what? The more I force myself to do it, the more natural it's going to be for me. I found my voice through time, but it was with the nudging and the coaching of people that took chances on me. I've been in nine startups as the people leader, and so I've seen a lot.

I've been on the receiving end of conversations. I've been in the middle, and I've been on the giving part, and I've learned through time what you do for a living is not as important as who you do it with. I think I've learned what not to do from certain leaders, and I've learned what to do, mimicking the behaviors that I wanted to see and do. I'm the proud mother of a 15 year old daughter who's growing up in very sophisticated Manhattan. Like the teenagers in Manhattan are ridiculously aware and smarter than we ever were at 15.

And so I try to role model the behavior that I want in her because I think she's looking and she's watching what I do more than she's paying attention to my voice or my words. She's looking at my behavior. So I think I'm driven from being the proud parent, but I'm also driven from those leaders who invested in me early. I don't think I have the best HR skill set. I actually think people saw something that they're like my.

You can take this on, too, my take on OKRs, my build alignment across teams. And it was just sort of my. All of a sudden, my voice became, you know what? My actions will show you that I don't have to talk a lot. I'll just show you what I can do.

What are some of the behaviors you think that you displayed that you might want to share with people who are earlier in career? I think others saw in me that I was able to just get a lot of work done. I was a workhorse. I liked being able to take a to do list and crossing out the very thing that I just finished. That was what I lived for.

Mai Ton

And so my to do list was long, and there was no better reward than marking it off. Because of that, I got a lot done. I was very efficient. And what that built was my own credibility of, you know what? Give the project to Mai.

She'll get it done in the time that it needs. So that's my first takeaway, looking back. Secondly, I actually think that curiosity is underrated. I have seen a lot of people move into the manager role, and they may not know what they're doing, but they behave as if they have to feel like they know what they're doing because all of a sudden they're managing teams or they're managing a big project. And so I've seen folks wing it, and that's okay to learn certain things on the job, but it's also okay to say, you know what, Thomas?

I need help. Can you help me understand a financial forecast? Can you help me understand how to talk to Seth, who's actually a really hard communicator? The more questions that you ask, I feel that the more you're able to connect with people. And I think that rolls into my third takeaway, which is I feel that people forget about how hard the workplace is to build relationships.

So I would take the time to really establish trust and rapport, and that can be in sharing more about you. So, for instance, I just shared that I'm the proud mother of a 15 year old daughter, a teenager in New York City. I didn't have to share that. But I want you to know that it's actually who I work for and why I work so hard. And if you know that about me, then maybe you'll talk to me about Emma, or you'll talk to me about some of the issues or the problems that I'm struggling with.

And in that reality and authenticity, you find that a lot of people will then open up and say, you know what, Mai? I don't want to have kids. I don't know how you do it. It's sort of like people get real really fast. When you think about the key challenges of a people leader when you started off, versus what the key challenges are for a people leader who would be kicking off today, what challenges remain the same?

What things do you think are new? I started my people leadership career in Silicon Valley. This was the height of all of the innovation, entrepreneurship. A lot of students were coming out of Stanford Business school and forming their own companies and YC and the combinators out there, it was amazing. And so if I look back and remember my first, probably four or five startups were about, you execute.

Mai Ton

You've hired all these people now. What are you going to do with them all? To keep them and keep them engaged and productive. So my role was to actually build what I call the operating systems so that they didn't distract people from the actual work they needed to do. I love technology and tools, and so building that infrastructure, to me was kind of where I spent a lot of my time.

I have templates, I've written scripts, I've done a whole bunch of things, because back then it was, you have to get all this done. We've hired 100% head growth. We're doubling our revenue. We need to move fast and break things. And it was growth at all cost.

And so lots of execution, lots of just firefighting building. As we go fast forward to now, I think times have changed, and I will admit I don't think I'm as successful now as I had been in the past. And partly it's because there's a shift. Post pandemic life hybrid virtual reality. Lack of cohesion has spelled something different that's demanded from the people leader.

And it is the ability to focus, the ability to actually do and choose three of the highest priorities and do them well. But I love bright, shiny objects, and I've got 15 different things I want to do, and I want to do them all well. But I learned that one of the reasons why I feel that I can give more as a consultant is because actually, I like the task of doing and executing, whereas deep, focused work requires a depth and a breadth that perhaps some people leaders have today. But I find it's hard in the startup space. What strategies have you when you compare the IPOs and M A's that go well versus the ones that don't?

What are people, leaders and organizations doing to make it go right that most. People are forgetting so many? You know, I wish it was a secret or one magic bullet, but I will tell you, it is quite a tightrope balancing the needs of the board and the business with balancing the needs of employees. I think employees demand and expect a lot more from employers nowadays. So in the past, yes, it used to be about the carrot and a potential exit strategy that minted.

Mai Ton

I was, at the time in Silicon Valley, I was going to retirement parties for my friends who were 32 years old. Right. I mean, that's kind of the lore and charm of Silicon Valley now. The world has changed. It's different.

There's a lot of political and social unrest, and what I feel employees are looking for are places where the employers take a stance. They take a stance on what is appropriate or what is right. And I think when it comes to the M A's and the IPOs and some of the divestitures I've been involved in, I found perhaps one magic thing that I always leaned into, which was sometimes I was hired to be the change catalyst. There were moments where we hired a lot of people, and then you don't know what to do with all these people, because now you've got real goals, you've got revenue targets that are astronomical. And so I always felt that employees do better when you give them the full context of what's happening and what the expectations are.

So I was very repetitive, and typically, I took over the orchestration and the architecting of the town hall meetings or the all hands meetings, so that there was always a status update from each of the departments and then a CEO status update. And what that did was it let everybody stay aligned to the longer term collective goal. And I think that whether it's an exit strategy, whether there's some type of big change or an M A, all of that was a cascade of communications. And that's what I found really bought me a lot of credibility as well as belovedness, because they could rely that I wasn't trying to tell them or spin them a story. It was like, here's what's happening.

We didn't hit our revenue goals, so now our IPO path is in jeopardy. Even though I can say that today, that was very hard to say when everybody's working very hard for this exit. And sometimes I teamed with the executive leaders to make sure they were saying it and using their voice. But, Thomas, I've been a ghostwriter for a lot of my teams, and I think that's why I have such a penchant for writing and communications, because I felt that that's what actually delivered on the promise of a people leader, is that you just tell me what's going on. Don't bluff, don't lie.

Give it to me straight. If I'm not doing well at work, let me know. I don't want to be blindsided. If we're going to change or we're going to switch out products or we need to move faster, let me know. And that's what I did.

I let people know, had very direct conversations, which some days were taken well and other days not so much. But I learned throughout all of the process of just what people needed at work, which is just general context of what are we all working so hard for. Were there moments where you got pushback from your peers on the executive team on that transparency approach? Oh, definitely. There comes a time, especially for those who are in companies that are inching toward an IPO.

There becomes a moment where transparency cannot be had because you're jeopardizing information leaks, especially in this day of social media. All of a sudden, you've built your company on the foundation that we will communicate with you. We will be transparent with you. We will show you our Runway and our forecast and our financials. What happens as you get closer, for instance, to an M A or an IPO, is that you have to ratchet back the levels of transparency.

And the only way that we've done it in the past, when I've been on these teams, is to say, today is the day where we are so sorry, but we cannot continue to be as transparent. And you will be on a need to know basis. And I know this sucks, it will change the culture, but it's to protect a potential transaction that will help all of us. Just being able to say that, I think we've said in some of my companies, we had to say it multiple times because people sometimes join the promise of a startup being able to be on the inside, to see all of the factory of what's getting made. Sometimes you lose people because you're entering a new phase of the company's growth.

And sometimes people will surprise you to say, I totally understand, I don't need to know. And maybe it's best that I don't know because I don't want to fumble something. These kind of fundamental things change as you get closer to a transaction in a lot of what's been my life, which is tech startup land, but it's all for the collective good. How do you think about the difference between a growing executive team that doesn't have it all figured out, but kind of is growing, versus a struggling one that probably is just not the right fit? My sweet spot has always been joining companies in either series B or Series C levels as these companies got closer to a potential transaction.

What I witnessed was the executive team that was hired in Series A or series B was not the right type of team the company needed as it grew. And so not only have I had to be working with the board to orchestrate some CEO replacements, but in every company where I've worked, the executive teams have been replaced or perhaps up leveled for the size and scale of the company. And so that has been my hardest work. I try to walk the tightrope between doing what's right for the company and having a very humane experience inside work. That's why I take that role very seriously, because that tightrope, sometimes I've gotten wrong, that I try my best to treat people with kindness and respect.

That's all I can do. These moments are probably the worst moments of some people's lives, when they have to be replaced, or when we have to usher in a new, I'll call it regime. I think that's the wrong word, Thomas. But the new chapter for the company. And so for me, I've been lucky enough to still communicate with and chat to some of the CEOs that have moved on.

I've been lucky enough to stay in touch with those executive leaders who perhaps weren't right for the company as the company was maturing. But I think along the way there were definitely stumbles. Definitely people that didn't like the way I handled it, or thought I was in cahoots, or that I went above their heads. It was all for the collective good. And that's what keeps me a little bit sane, being able to do this work, because it's actually probably the hardest part of the role, is having those kind of conversations, which are very different from layoffs, because these are very personal conversations.

What does it look like to be the harbinger of what might be the toughest news anyone has ever had heard from an identity perspective, but doing so in a way that engenders enough respect that you're still friends with this person after the fact. When you think about some of those conversations, what existed before? What did you communicate? That could be wisdom for other people. Leaders.

Mai Ton

I do this thing, Thomas, where in every company I join, I have a one on one meeting with everybody just to introduce myself. And it's a way for me to gain a window into what's happening in their own lives. And for me, usually when I start as a people leader, my question is, what do you think I need to know? And the interesting thing is, people tell me all sorts of things, and they get very personal quickly. Partly it's because they want me to know these things for the sake of the company, but they're giving me a lens into what's on their mind.

And I feel that for those people, leaders who have these emotional days, and, you know, you're getting ready for a big moment or some big change. The thing that I relied upon the most was to be able to understand and know what Thomas really cared about or what I know that you have a partner. I know you just went to Columbia for the holidays. Those small details. Let me treat you like a person and not just a transaction.

And so in the conversations that I've had to have, sometimes I will say, I'm so sorry. This is going to be a hard conversation. And I hope this doesn't come as a surprise, because we've been talking about this, and my apology is sincere. I don't just say that. That's not just on rote or a template that I use, but it comes from a place where I know that this is hard for the person to be on the receiving end of this.

And so I get to the point very quickly. Then I let them have the time to either vent or to get emotional or to just get more context. But I spend those last moments very generously, because the way that a company treats you on your exit, I feel, should be, and as much as you can, the same enthusiasm that you started with on your first day should be the same kind of enthusiasm you have on your last day, even though you're going through a tough conversation, because the way you handle that last conversation is the way people will remember. That is the ethos of your culture. That is the behavior of your company that is never forgotten, always remembered.

And so I felt that that last conversation was sometimes more important than any other conversation that they'd ever had in the history of the company. And again, Thomas, this is all said with the ability to look back and reflect, knowing that, you know what? I fell down flat on my face, too. There's certain methods that I tried, and I tried to be the tough, strict HR person that just did things and executed things. And I learned very quickly, not only is that not who I am, but it sort of left people with the worst impression of the company and me.

And so I learned very quickly, I hope that you have companies and cultures that allow you to experiment to find your voice, because you talked to me about earlier, my voice. You have to take the time to find the voice that suits the audience and suits the occasion. And that's very hard to do in stressful cases. What inspires you most today? What inspires me most today is the youth of America.

I went to a rally, Thomas, the other day, and there were, I'd say, thousands marching in the street of midtown Manhattan. And who had the bullhorn? He was 20 years old, maybe even 18. I mean, I'm talking very young, Thomas. And I just said, wow, look at him rally the thousands of people.

And he was barely able to drink alcohol. I just said, wow. This is a new generation that is courageous. They have conviction, and they want to upset the status quo that we, I think, have gotten used to. I think that invigorates me.

I think in most of the companies where I work, the average age was probably 31 or 32 years old, so generally younger than me. And I just feel that nowadays, the world of work has changed. And what I want to start capturing is why sometimes we're working so hard, especially in the western world, we introduce ourselves through the titles that we have at work. We forget to say, I'm Mai. I'm a proud mother.

I'm a doting wife. I try to cook. Instead, I just say, hi, I'm mai. I've been the leader of nine different tech startups, and it's so strange that we do that. So I want to stop talking like that because I want you to know that I'm more than what I do at work.

And then the second thing that I've seen, Thomas, is people are really mean to each other at work. I've seen fights. I've been in the middle. I've tried to moderate. I've been on the receiving end.

And I think it's just getting worse, there's a lot of incivility and there's not a lot of. You didn't mean to say that, did you, Mai? Let's slow down or let's talk about this instead. It is like an accusation that I am ill educated or that I've made an assumption. But I think sometimes I reflect on that and I say, if we're spending as much time as we are at work, really defining ourselves by our work, then why are we so mean to each other at work?

And that's what I think I'm trying to start to capture as a consultant. It is still chaotic. There's still a lot to be done. Business is always going to be business. But the people that you spend your time with influence, who you become, and that to me, is something that I care dearly about.

I think they say that the five people that you spend your most time with define who you are. So if you show me your top five, I can tell who you are. It's amazing to me what's happening at work and some of the conversations and the issues that I have in my consulting business now, because I'm trying to help companies through some of this friction. The workplace, on one hand, we've never been more aware of the importance of belonging and inclusion and that being in the ecosystem of where we talk about work. And yet the moments of just deep interpersonal incivility also seem like they're on the rise.

And it's sometimes difficult to kind of merge those two trends. What do you think is kind of driving that incivility? And what do you think people, leaders today need to be aware of to try and counteract that in some way? The pace of work has totally changed. Sometimes when you're in a hurry, you do not take the time to be thoughtful.

Mai Ton

And I think that's what's leading to the incivility. Second, the standards have changed. For some reason, people think good enough is okay. I think I read somewhere the other day, good enough is the end of humanity. You can't have the standard of that's good enough.

Like if you were on the operating table and you had a surgeon operating on you, you don't want good enough. You want the best quality of care. And so I think the pace and the thoughtlessness of which people are going to work is hard. And the third dimension is, I just want, because I'm a writer, I think I'm going to give myself permission to say this, but you need an editor. You shouldn't just go unedited and say the things that are on the top of your mind, you need to make sure that you recognize who's around you and practice some diplomacy.

And I feel that that's where I've made my own mistakes as well. But I also feel that's why I write. Sometimes I feel like I'm a better writer than I am a speaker. And so it helps me to write. If I'm especially going to deliver difficult feedback or if I'm going to have a serious conversation, I have to write those words, and it takes time to do that.

But I think that's how my writing helps me, which is why I think I have a second book in me. It's not shaped quite yet, but I do think if more people could practice a little bit more diplomacy at work, it wouldn't be as friction filled, it wouldn't be high pressured. It perhaps could alleviate some of the stress that people feel from. I witnessed people, one of the leaders, walk into a room, and the minute this person walked into the room, everybody was stressed. You could feel it.

You could cut the tension. It was just that type of effect that this person had. And I always said to my CEOs that I was working with, I want you to be the person that everybody lights up when they see you. They sit up straight. Sure, their posture is straighter, but they are excited to see you, that they don't get nervous seeing you.

And so I think some of that demystification of everybody is a person at work is okay. Even if they have a C suite title, it's okay. They're just like you and me. They have human emotions. So.

Learned a lot through my days in house, and I'm learning probably even more being able to be objective on the. Outside of, oh, what do you think you've only learned by being a writer that you wish you'd known as a people leader? Words matter, and I alluded to this. I grew up here in America, but English is my second language, and so in the most tense filled, stressful situations, I chose some of the wrong words, and I didn't mean to. It wasn't my intention.

But nobody knows your intention. They just hear the words, especially in those stressful situations. So I think now that I'm a little bit more experienced, I'm a little bit more careful with the words I choose. And sometimes if I don't, or if I can't find the right words, I actually choose silence. That's been very hard for me, though.

It's been very hard because I don't like awkward silences. But for me, I know in my mind that if I'm informal in a way that isn't for the right situation, it doesn't serve anybody in the room well. So I've learned to just say and use words like, these are my initial thoughts, so that people know that I'm still processing. Or I'll say, this is what I'm trying to say. Can you help me to make sure that it's coming out the right way?

You mentioned the importance of building up a sense of your whole self and the limitation that exists when we just define ourselves by what we happen to be doing professionally at the moment. How do you think about the balance between that deep authenticity to the things that matter most to you and navigating the reality of a world that is still rife with gender bias and too quick to write off your contributions because of what is happening in your personal life? Allies matter. One of the reasons I believe I've been able to last in some of the executive teams where I was the only woman or the only one with dark hair, also the only one under 6ft. I think there's a lot of onlys for me of like, it was a very lonely.

Mai Ton

I always felt alone in my role, and because of that, that made me lean into my motherhood even more because I was a proud parent. I've always been a proud parent of Emma. That became, I guess, my proxy for knowing that, look, I'm a people leader, but I'm also a parent. And I want you to see me as all of these things, because the more dimensions I can bring to work, the better company we will have, because you need different perspectives. I think McKinsey's done plenty of studies that show when you have more diverse teams, they deliver better business outcomes.

And because I'm able to recite that evidence so clearly, I use it in the executive rooms where I say, you know what? I am left handed. And you know what? The world is built for right handed people, but people don't recognize because it's just so common. Even in that moment of diversity, you learn something of, you know what?

I'm actually going to let the door handle be on the other side of the door. It's just very subtle things that can spell really fabulous moments together because you do spend so much time with your colleagues, you want them to know about you beyond just like, what they see. I think that's what I'm doing now, Thomas, is that I went to a book reading this author that we met. His icebreaker question to the audience was, if your life consisted of only two chapters, where would chapter one end and chapter two begin? And from that day on, Thomas, I said, you know what?

I want to design chapter two not to look like chapter one. Chapter one was all about work and the hustle and the grind, especially startup culture. And chapter two looks nothing like that. I can still be the proud mother and the doting wife and the good sister and the youngest of five. Now I actually want to spend my time doing the things that fulfill me, being able to have more time with Emma and spend more time being present.

Because even when I was on vacation, I was checking emails and I was still dialing in. It was just hard to disconnect. And so I think all of those dimensions, when you're able to share the many sides of who you really are, it lends to, you know what? Yeah, you know what? My go pick up Emma from daycare.

Or go like, we don't have to talk about this right now. This is probably the least of the important things for today. So I just feel like it makes people better when everybody's able to say, you know what, I have a cooking class I have to get to. So my sorry, but I got a bail. And then I'm like, yes, go to your cooking class.

I know that's your life's dream to be a chef, so go. And that makes it more fun, makes the workplace a little bit more tolerable on especially stressful days when you have good people that are kind and that understand that you are more than just your work.

Thomas Igeme

And now it's time for our recurring spoken stories segment, where we get to hear from some of the people who know our guests the best. On this week's episode, I got to sit down with two people who are leaders in their own right and huge fans of Maitan. First, I spoke to Wolf Ofcharik, director of business operations at Kickstarter, and then I chatted with Myra Zhang, who's a senior manager of peopleops at Fabric. Here's what they each had to say.

Wolf Ofcharik

My superpower is x ray vision. Having seen so many growing startups go through the same organizational issues, she can look at their structure and practice and easily pinpoint what parts need help, such as where to add or modify management layers and roles. More importantly, she can be convincing when speaking to what effects those changes will have and what to expect from keeping things as they are. I've seen it go both ways, and it becomes a very coachable moment for a leader who cannot otherwise see the impacts of structure on their teams. I would say my superpower is the ability to make people feel heard and understood.

Myra Zhang

It really takes a time to be empathetic and takes a time to really listen, understand how someone's feeling, and ensures that their feelings are being knowledged. And she's able to really provide a lot of antidotes and solutions based off of what people are telling her. I also got to sit down with Erin Grau, co founder and COO at Charter, and Melanie Oberman, the global people Strategy and business partnership lead at Content Square with exactly the same question. And here's what they had to say about Miton's superpower. Mai lifts up everyone around her, whether that's encouraging words, sharing ideas, or frameworks when you're dealing with a thorny challenge, I admire her brilliant mind, her generous spirit, and also her heart.

Erin Grau

She genuinely cares, and it shows in everything she does. She reminds me that leadership is really about connecting and empowering and bringing out the best in each other. Mai is the superpower behind every successful team. Some leaders drown in busy work, but Mai is laser focused on tools and processes to keep her teams efficient. Her true strength, though, is in her ability to understand the heart of any business and the people within it.

Melanie Oberman

She brings compassion as her true guiding light. She not only gets the job done, but she makes everyone she touches feel like they're the most important person in the room. She certainly does that for me. She doesn't just lead. She turns every challenge into an opportunity for true connection and growth.

And she shows that in every interaction she has. She's not just a team member. Mai is your secret ingredient to success.

Thomas Igeme

As I reflect on my conversation with Mai, I'm struck by her unassuming courage. How again and again, Mai is someone who chose what was not easy simply because it felt right. And in spite of everything around her telling her that was not for her. We all have those dreams, those things we're almost embarrassed to admit we want because they don't make sense, because of the body or place or time we were born into. My hope for you this week is that you, too, would feel inspired to go after some of those dreams in spite of what the people around you say, not because you're guaranteed to accomplish them, but because the act of making a choice in your own favor, in spite of what everything around you is saying is a win unto itself.

And the freedom that comes from the reminder that ultimately, this life is yours. To live as you want is worth its weight in gold. So go ahead and go after that dream. I'll be rooting for you. This is Thomas.

This. I'll see you next weekend. Drop. Drop.

Drop.