Beyond The Battlefield: Leadership Lessons with Roxanne Petraeus, CEO Ethena

Roxanne Petraeus
If you get an opportunity, like go for it. I think if you're a good leader, you're a leader who is inclusive and ethical. I was always really interested in this idea of being able to create something of value.

Thomas
Back when I worked in corporate America, I had a pretty consistent worst day of the year was generally the day after compliance training was due. That was because inevitably I'd missed all the reminders to do it. And finally, I'd gotten an email ccing my boss from HR because I had missed the final deadline and it needed to happen. With everything piling up, I would slog through a number of hours of mindless presentations and ticking boxes just to meet requirements. It was painful, but where I just saw an unfortunate legal demand of working in corporate America, our guest, Roxanne Petraeus, saw a challenge.

A challenge that sparked the birth of Athena, a company that is now revolutionizing how we think about and engage with compliance training. Welcome to venture visionaries, where we dive deep into the stories of those who dare to lead and innovate. Today, I'm thrilled to have Roxanne Petraeus, CEO of Athena, joining us now. Athena is not the first difficult terrain that Roxanne has navigated. From the disciplined pathways of the US army to the strategic corridors of McKinsey and company, each step of Roxanne's journey has been guided by a deep seated drive for excellence and a desire to make a tangible impact.

In this episode, Roxanne shares her non traditional path to entrepreneurship and the importance of recognizing the multiple paths to success. We're going to delve into her drive for excellence, some of her earliest leadership traits, and how her experiences have shaped her approach to leadership and innovation. Roxanne's story is a testament to the power of questioning the status quo and the importance of a leadership that is inclusive, ethical, and deeply human. From the challenges and opportunities of balancing motherhood with being as CEO, to navigating the unpredictable macroeconomic landscape of 2023, Ratzan offers insights that are both personal and profound, and that I know you're going to find useful as you reflect on your own journey. We're going to explore how Athena's intuitive platform is changing the game for companies like Netflix, Figma, and Notion, with a staggering 93% positive rating.

But our conversation doesn't just stop there. Roxanne helps us pull out a crystal ball and look into the future of work, the critical importance of DEI initiatives, and how remote work will continue to reshape the corporate landscape. Whether you're a budding entrepreneur, a leader looking to inspire change, or simply someone who's curious about the intersection of leadership, discipline, and the human spirit. This episode is for you. Join us as we unpack the lessons, stories, and insights from Roxanne Petraeus remarkable journey further ado, let's dive into our conversation with Roxanne.

Speaker C
Good morning, Roxanne. Good morning. How you doing? I'm doing well. I'm particularly doing well because this is a conversation I've been looking forward to for a while, partly because we first kind of decided on doing this in, like late, like, last year.

And so it's taken us a while to get this on the books. I think more importantly, because I'm deeply fascinated by your story. On one hand, you have a pretty non traditional path into being CEO of an HR tech company. You went to Harvard, you were in the army, you spent time at McKinsey, and now you're in tech entrepreneurship. The two things I notice about kind of the highlights of those stories is one, how diverse those experiences are.

I don't think everybody assumes those go together, but how each of those brands kind of represents a certain level of eliteness in their categories. So whether it's like where you went to college at Harvard, being in the army, going to McKinsey for management consulting, and now leading. And before I kind of get into the details of the story, I'm curious, where do you think that drive for excellence comes from? Or do you even define it that way? I feel like this may be gendered, maybe just I don't know how I grew up, but when I feel immediately embarrassed and sort of this desire to say, like, oh, no.

Roxanne Petraeus
But I think you're completely right that I sort of, if I'm going to be in the army and I want to be in special operations, if I go to college, I wanted to go to what I thought was the best. I don't have a good armchair psychologist sort of way of doing it. But you mentioned your background, so this may resonate. Like, my father is an immigrant, and I think there was very much, like, growing up, kind of this idea of if you get an opportunity, like, go for it, you know, don't just, like, let it pass by. And I feel like, I often felt like, you know, you don't know when the next opportunity will come, so really try to give it your all.

And I just have had that intensity applied in a bunch of different ways. To your point, whether it's academia or whether it's actually something very physical, or whether it's, you know, something that's sort of more almost a combination of both, which is company building. As a mom now, I don't exactly know where it comes from, because obviously I would love to, you know, raise my children with the idea of working hard, but it was just kind of in somewhere in nature nurture land, you. Know, you mentioned not being really clear when it came from, but I'm curious, as you look back on your childhood, are there any, like, early defining moments that kind of predicted your future leadership roles in these various sectors or the things that you found interesting? I think so.

I think there's kind of two components, because I think entrepreneurship is sort of part. All the words kind of can seem very annoying, but grit, hustle, you know, or whatever, and then part, like being a leader, you know, bossy, assertive, in command. And I think I, you know, as I look back, I had both. So when the bossy is sort of in charge kind of thing, I feel like any group project, I was like, well, I will be the leader, you know? You know, like, I'm going to be assigning roles to everyone else.

That was sort of the, um, usually the natural place that I would just find myself either elbowing my way into or, like, pulled into, depending on the context, and then on the hustle grit component. Like, I think, like a lot of entrepreneurs, you know, my first business was, I was in middle school, and I passed around little business cards that I had made on some very early word art club art situation to be sort of a pre babysitter. Yeah, I had a bunch of different, like, you know, hustles, some of which I got in trouble for at school selling. I think I was just always really interested in this idea of being able to create something of value that other people wanted and make money on that. I just thought that was very cool.

Speaker C
I'm struck by the fact that if we just look at the data, we find that a lot of growing young women experience a huge sense of grit and drive and hustle. But the messages that our society often gives women still today is very different than men in terms of those attributes. But are there things that existed in your childhood in either what your parents did or your school surroundings that insulated you in any way that kind of allowed you to think of these traits, you know, not as, like, you're too bossy or like, you're too in control, but rather, oh, wow, you're like a natural born leader, or not like you're too in everybody's face or you're too aggressive, but, like, we love your hustle. How did some of the noise, the gendered noise that I think often gets in the way. How did they keep that at bay?

Or what did they give you to resist that? I think it definitely wasn't kept fully at bay. Like, I remember in the army sort of feeling like, you know, the army, I think when I was in, was something like 15% of women. So it's just a heavily male dominated field, and I was often the only woman in a unit or in a particular training school or whatever. I would get feedback that I'm, like, incredibly self deprecating.

Roxanne Petraeus
So I might, I didn't want to come across in a way that would put people off, and so that I knew I went to Harvard because it's very not common in the army, so I might make jokes about how can't do math or something. Like, I always felt this need to try to make myself seem as not annoying as possible so that I wasn't ostracized or whatever. I wasn't, I would say, like, inoculated 100%. I did have a mentor in the army really early on who said basically, like, you need to, like, knock some of this self deprecation off. It's, like, annoying.

And I actually was actually very grateful for that. So he said that I would. I was going to speak especially if there were more senior people. I would say something like, I'm not an expert, but, you know, I would put the caveat for, what does it say? And he's like, it's very annoying, because often then you say something that is quite informed, and so you think that you're self deprecating, but it's not even working.

And also, it's just this whole thing. You're kind of putting on a show and just kind of like, knock it off for your own good and for everyone else's. And I found that advice very helpful, and I appreciated that he was very blunt because I'm sure that a lot of people thought it, but he was, wanted to invest in my growth, and so was willing to have a kind of uncomfortable conversation to tell me, yeah, even though he's not a woman, he doesn't know what I'm going through, that in his perspective, I needed to stop preemptively apologizing. I'm curious in what ways military leadership and startup leadership are similar and how you think about reconciling those as you've thought about your journey. Yeah, I think they're very similar in that startups are volatile.

They're roller coasters, even the great ones. There's always some story about how you almost ran out of money or, you know, he got sued to oblivion, or I think that military taught me about how great leaders can kind of, like, reduce the temperature in a room. So the more stressful something got, whether it's a situation like, overseas in a deployment, or just a training exercise, where it's like, hey, either everyone is grumpy, hungry, tired, scared, whatever. I feel like I would always see the best leaders kind of somehow be able to, like, take a breath and embody both, like, what they said and how they acted. That calmness that was very catching and contagious.

Just remembering kind of sometimes looking around. I think it was in a helicopter once, and it was, like, getting really choppy. And I'm not an aviator, but I was like, this doesn't feel great. Like, I don't feel good about this. And seeing this other guy who was just like, crack a joke, and you're like, okay, well, he's not freaking out right now.

Maybe I can just, you know, take a couple of deep breaths myself. Yeah, I've attempted to. I think it's kind of seeped into just how I operate. Bring that to Athena, where I. I'm a CEO.

We've got 60 plus ish employees, a bunch of amazing customers, and occasionally something goes wrong, you know, and someone's stressed or things you see in the news impact us or, like, Silicon Valley bank or whatever kind of rollercoaster moment and trying to. Not trying to reduce the temperature in the room, because I think as a leader, utterly. Everyone is paying a lot of attention to how you're reacting. I'm curious, though, beyond humor, are there any other kind of tools and tricks of the trade that you'd want to share with a leader? He's like, I totally get what you're saying, and I'm not the funniest person in the room, and I'm still trying to figure out how to help my team calm down.

Yeah, I think, paradoxically, there communist idea of a leader as a very. What I think of as sort of, like, 1990s business. Like, I know all the answers, and I have no fears, I have no concerns. I am just kind of flawless. And I actually think people who are looking to a leader are looking for authenticity.

In any version, it's a very overused word. But, like, my authentic self is humorous. I am, like, humorous at home. I appreciate a joke, and I'm humorous at work, and I can't separate the two. If you ask me to not say something like, I'm not funny, but I just appreciate humor, and I can't turn it off in any situation.

I might be interviewing for a scholarship or I might be running my business, and that is just going to come out of me. And so I think if someone is not funny, it's, like, actually excellent. Don't be funny then, because my co founder always jokes. She is actually funny, but she's like, I'm deeply not funny, but she has her own way of interacting, and if she tried to be me or I tried to be her, it would be a disaster. But we're sort of both, like, I think, have figured out ways that we can, like, show our real selves as leaders.

And I think often, especially a new leader might be really scared to show their real self. So, like, an example might be like, you know, I love CrossFit. It's embarrassing. And I might just, like, start a meeting by saying, like, I went across it and I just, like, did this really embarrassing thing and I actually fell. And, like, here's this awkward gab now that I get to carry around whatever you may think.

Like, that's not the most inspiring story. Like, why do I want to follow someone kind of clumsy and whatever? But I think it can just, like, give someone a sense of, like, okay, well, you know, okay, this morning she went to the gym, and she's. I did something this morning, too, and she's a human, and she fell. And I fall.

Yeah. Whatever the version of authenticity is, I think it's a really nice, nice place to show up as leader. You mentioned kind of your role as a co founder and CEO of Athena. You know, on one hand, Athena is compliance training software. On the other hand, and I've heard this from a number of your customers, it really is a completely different lens on what compliance training is.

Speaker C
Walk me through what the change in perspective is on compliance training that underguards Athena and how you even stumbled upon it. I think if you're a good leader, you're a leader who is inclusive and ethical. From my time in the military, I noticed that there was this sort of correlation between a leader who would lead inclusively and a leader who would lead ethically and a good leader. They were kind of all the same thing. And so I felt like the best leaders were ones who.

Roxanne Petraeus
I mean, a lot of these stories, unfortunately, came out in the war. Like, there were a lot of things that didn't go right. You know, you think of there were war scandals early on or something. Typically, those felt like they were from leaders who, like, didn't have a really solid grasp on their unit and, like, couldn't command authority. And the same might be true of inclusive leaders.

So again, I pointed out, like, not a lot of women in the military. I thought that some of the best leaders were just the best leaders. Like, full stop. They weren't the best leaders to just a certain type of person. They sort of figured out how to get the best out of every person.

And that's not just, you know, sort of a demographic thing or something. It might be that they worked with shy people, they worked with confident people. They got everybody to just, like, be their best selves. And so when I thought about these issues that happened in the workplace, whether it's like, sexual harassment, Dei, or whether it's more like a code of conduct, you know, embezzlement, like, all these things that happened, I approached it with what sounds like a very corny approach, but I think it's true, which is, like, this is really just about good leadership, good management, and good culture building. And it shouldn't be like, you know, today is the day we learn how to not harass our colleagues.

And every other day, you do you no. Like, I actually think that kind of being able to interact with a bunch of different colleagues sort of is being a good manager or is being a good employee. And thankfully, we had just some early customers who totally got it. And one said, like, I don't refer to you as compliance training or refer to you as culture building. Like, that's how I roll you out.

At my company, this is one of our earliest buyers. So, yeah, it's just been really nice to see that people have kind of got that these issues aren't, like, things that you kind of want to just leave as, like, this is just a legal issue, just an HR issue. Address it, check the box, and move on. It's like, these are issues that, like, are company ending sometimes. Like, if you look in the news, like, companies get in a lot of trouble when they mess up ethically or when they mess up in terms of their culture.

So I think, like, making it, taking it out of this, like, back office and sort of putting it front and center was the paradigm shift we approached it with. When people say no or are skeptical, what are they saying no or being skeptical about? Yeah, I remember being on an early sales call and me kind of giving this idea and sort of asked the HR leader I was talking to, like, don't you care about, you know, assuming the answer is going to be yes, like, how your employees receive their training? And she was like, honestly, I don't I was like, well, okay, you're probably gonna buy this. We're just, like, being honest.

Like, yeah. And thankfully, like, that hasn't been a very common answer. And I think especially in an early, in a business journey, it's sort of really important to define, like, who you're for and therefore, who you're not for. We can't be everything to everyone. Like, if I couldn't be the, like, culture and development tool to the early buyer I mentioned, and then also be, like, a super check the box and crappy training to this other woman, like, company, same product, I think what we have done a good job.

We love the book. Crossing the chasm. I think it's this amazing business book is sort of recognizing that, hey, there were people who were really early on this train, and I don't expect everyone to be that. And so how can I sort of address other needs that you might have? So, like, you might come as an HR person and be like, I have a global 10,000 person company, and I can't even figure out if, like, Tim in New York did the right training, and then there's, like, susan in Paris, and there's anti bribery concerns and blah, blah, blah and all this.

And I'm like, great, let me tell you about all of our amazing admin tools. And I'm going to, like, solve your problem. And then I'm also going to show you that, like, hey, by the way, I think your employees are really going to, like this. Companies like yours tend to. And so not expecting everyone to, like, have the same passion for this one thing.

But on the flip side, recognizing that, like, because we're so for a type, we're not going to be for everybody. When you kind of think about kind of navigating that, am I building a product for my buyer? Am I building it for my user? When I need to make trade offs, how do I chill between them? How has Athena thought about kind of that product prioritization journey?

I think what we have tried to do is think about, there's some HR leaders, as I'm sure, you know, people. Leaders who genuinely care about what their employees think. That's in their DNA. But, you know, we're all busy, and there's just some, like, yeah, I guess I would like my employees not to hate this, but, you know, I've got a bunch of things I have to get, and I get it. And so what we've tried to do is tie the two.

So, for example, instead of being, like, your employees, really like the training, which if you're not that people leader who kind of bleeds, like, the employee experience might be like, cool, I don't really care, and instead say, therefore, they will do it more. And so we show, like, our training gets done something like, you know, 70% of the employees do their training on time without any additional reminders. And trial leaders will say, like, holy smokes, I'm normally the police. I'm normally going to remind everybody the day after the due date. And it might be 90% of my team that hasn't done their training yet.

And that's exhausting. And it takes me three weeks. And the employees are super reluctant to do it. And even when they try to do it, tech is glitchy and blah, blah, great. So you don't have to care that the employee actually likes the training experience.

Instead, I'm going to just really emphasize the value to you, which is they do it and high completion is actually something you care about.

Speaker C
Are there moments where Athena was actually force, where, like, the thing that was best for the user and the thing that was best for the buyer are really not the same? And you find that you're, like, at a crossroads where you need to make a choice. And if you get to those moments, how do you think about balancing that out? So in our early days, our pitch was we'll sort of send you out little micro learnings throughout the year. Employees really liked it because every, you know, in general, they liked it because it was just five minutes at a time.

Roxanne Petraeus
Admins, it became like, it could be really difficult because you're sort of having to monitor basically completion every month. And so we had to make this decision, like, okay, well, you know, our admins are like, some of them are really struggling and they love everything else about the product, but this kind of forced experience, like, it's asking them to do a lot more work. And, like, you know, that's not a great place to be as a business. And so what we decided on was kind of a product update where essentially, like, employees can still do learning throughout the year, but an admin kind of has the ability to do this, like, annual completion push. So they can sit out, sit down in their dashboard once a year and, like, make sure everyone gets to where they need to export the records, et cetera.

And it was a bit of a trade off for, like, what we thought might be the optimal employee experience for instead the optimal admin experience. Yeah, but I like that we didn't have to completely ditch this whole idea of, like, relevant trainings throughout the year. And what's been cool. So this continuous learning feature that now is something that an admin can turn on instead of being forced into. The last time I think we pulled this out, something like 70% of our customers actually do have it turned on.

I think it was a nice thing of like, okay, let's not force admins to do this thing. It's difficult. So let's give them the option and some more knobs. If we're really right about this being so, so useful, they'll use the feature. And so it's been neat to see that instead of, like, forcing people in and it's now an opt in.

But there are a lot of folks who are opting in. What, if any, lessons from being a startup leader do you think have influenced your approach to being a partner and parent? And on the flip side, as you've observed yourself evolve as a partner and parent, does anything speak back into how you lead? Yeah, so I think maybe starting with the reverse of, like, sort of how being a mom has informed me, being a CEO and my husband always cringes at all of these things. He's like, you're taking our family and making this business content.

And I'm like, you're not wrong. But, you know, it's like, there. I think that the idea of, like, work life integration, I sort of show up to the earlier point on authenticity, like, largely the same way. You wouldn't be shocked to see how I parent versus how I lead look pretty similar. But I think from being a parent, something that has become really obvious recently in every parent told me this was like, man, your kids are paying attention to, like, every little thing that you do and do as well as say, but, like, definitely do.

So I'm very pregnant right now, and my husband was putting our son down the other night. And then my husband came back into the room and said, our son said that he was tired and his belly was really big, so he needed to lie on the ground to listen to the story, which is like, I hadn't realized, but it's like, definitely anything I tell my kid, I'm like, yeah, I can't sit up right now. I need to lie. I'm like, pregnant. My son is not very pregnant and his belly's not very big, but, you know, he has somehow internalized that, like, at the end of the day, we are tired and this is what we say.

And I never taught him that. He just has over the past couple of months. And so I think about, oh, man, you're, you're picking up on a lot of subtle things. Maybe on the flip side of, like, how sort of as a leader, you feel like, man, nobody listens to me, and, like, my employees aren't paying attention. But then someone will bring up, like, you remember that thing you said in the meeting a year ago?

And they say something, and you're like, I don't remember that. But, like, you do, employees really are paying attention to what their leaders are saying, how they're acting, how they're treating people. And it's, like, really important to be aware of the impact you have. Both positive, you know, making sure that you call out when something like really great behavior and the ways that you can sort of subtly, sometimes even accidentally signal something that you might not have even, like, been conscious of. You've actually spoken quite openly about the motherhood penalty.

Speaker C
And I think one of the things that is so unusual about kind of your approach to leadership is, on one hand, you don't shy away from the reality of all the biases that, quite frankly, exist still today against motherhood that has not caused you to shy away from that aspect of your identity. And you've chosen to lean in based on your journey. If there are any systemic changes you're still yearning on kind of the venture industry to make to address the motherhood penalty. I used to worry about it more, and now I don't even think about it. I'm like, oh, am I saying too much?

Roxanne Petraeus
Am I talking too much about my son? Am I talking too much about as a mom? Here's my perspective. I think that it's very valid, and I think I'd completely respect if there's a woman who's a mom who decided, like, I'm not talking about being a mom when I'm at work. And it's like, great.

That's, you know, super valid choice and no problem. But I think to the authenticity point, I've never been great at siloing all parts of my life, you know, mentioned, I'll reference a workout at work, and I'll, you know, mention something my kid did. And especially as a startup founder, like, my life is meant work. You know, I'm always on. I'm always attached to my phone.

And so if I wasn't able to say, hey, can't respond right now because my kid just pooped in the tub. And, like, I'm, like, offline for, like, a good 45 minutes. And, yeah, I guess I could just say, like, away from slack right now. But I find it, you know, to, like, at least my immediate team to be helpful, to be a little bit more honest about this. Yeah.

The calendar hold typically for daycare pickup. For days when I'm doing daycare pickup, I remember I wrote about having a miscarriage, and then I remember an employee joining and saying, like, hey, that article actually was, like, part of why I joined. You know, it's like, I kind of want to work in a company where I think what she cared about was sort of knowing that, like, leadership is going to have these experiences that I might have, even if it doesn't mean that, like, we necessarily have to talk about them or whatever. Like, it just sort of makes me feel like I can be more me here. I haven't really stressed a lot.

Like, what are the downsides? Because I've kind of recognized that the downsides are probably going to be there. Like, if you're a venture capitalist who doesn't want to invest in women, and guess what? Like, my name's Roxanne, and you can see my picture, and you're probably just going to put two and two together. And there's no point in really kind of, like, trying to hide our politics for at least that's how I have sort of approached it.

And then I found that while it can be very scary, when I wrote about miscarriage, for example, I also got a ton of notes from women, some of who are very senior, saying, like, went through the same thing. And I appreciate you seeing something. And so I think everything is a negative there, you know, is someone who's. For, as leaders, you are often in ways that you don't realize, setting the tone for what is acceptable, particularly in tough situations. And some of it is just like, hey, how do we, like, move forward in getting the team going?

Speaker C
But I'm struck by the comment from the person who joined, who was like, you know, you wrote that article on a miscarriage. I chose to join not because I want to talk about this every day, but I could almost feel, and even in the notes you get, you widened the aperture of how much of yourself is allowed to be here. And I think you so beautifully embodied, if I can kind of put you on the spot a little bit, why this authenticity piece is so important. I think as a leader, it's easy to underestimate how much time your employees are spending not thinking about solving the problems of the business and instead worrying about how they show up, how they're perceived, where they're okay. Yeah.

Does that resonate? Very much so, yeah, I think it's like, you know, it's like everyone is going through something like, my experience doesn't have to resonate. But if, hopefully as a leader, I can kind of demonstrate one that I don't think leaders are these sort of greek gods who are just like, come down from on high and are perfect, and instead they're, like, messy and they have their lives. And if that could be, like, comforting to my team, at least. Great, you know, I think that's really helpful.

Roxanne Petraeus
Yeah. And then, too, if people can feel, like, a little bit less on eggshells at work for, like, whatever version of themselves they do or don't want to share and that doesn't. I think, unfortunately, it can sometimes be portrayed as like, okay, so we're all just spending 6 hours a day, like, really working through our emotions or something, and it's like, no, I want you to be highly productive performance culture. And I just think that that can exist in a bunch of different ways. It doesn't think it sometimes can, can be like distance to some touchy feely woo woo kind of stuff.

And I actually think it allows, to your point, to build a really productive team where people are like, okay, got it. I can be a weirdo on some other thing. Yeah, but, like, really crush my job. And it's like, yeah, that's the idea. 2023 was a wild year to be in the startup world.

Speaker C
I mean, the macroeconomic environment looks completely different, and not just different, but, like, unpredictable. And so, you know, for a lot of the leaders I've talked to, a lot of the startup, my startup CEO community, 2023 has been one of the toughest years that they felt to be a CEO. But I'm curious how Athena is experiencing this moment and how, if at all, the experiences, the macroeconomic context of 2023 has influenced your strategy for 2024 and beyond. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, like, I started the company a couple months before COVID so I feel like, honestly, every year has had some, like, absolutely multiple wild things.

Roxanne Petraeus
But agree that last year in particular in tech was, was just like, sort of felt maybe not unprecedented, at least for, like, I didn't really live through the.com boom in any way as, like, a business leader has felt like something that hasn't happened in 15 plus years. What we kind of recognizes, like, man, this situation is not good. Like, the macro situation. Like, we sell. You see our logos on our website.

We've got amazing tech companies, like, name a great tech company, public or private, they're probably an Athena customer. And so that was 2023 was a year where they, many of them cut 2020, 5% of their workforce. And that is not a great climate for, you know, a company like ours to be growing in. And so I think we kind of, like, looked at the beginning of the year and we're like, well, we can, like, feel real sorry for ourselves because, like, this is not good. It's much better to be in a, you know, selling into a growing economy that cannot change the economy or we can kind of problem solve, like, okay, what's in our control?

So we sat down as, like, a leadership team. Like, we could just kind of go into a real protected mode or we could be both. We decided to take the latter approach and build three new products throughout the year because he said, if our customers aren't naturally growing and the economy isn't actually growing, the only way that we as business are going to grow is if we ship new products and they're great and people buy them, because that's the only growth that's going to happen. And so we did, and, like, I think relatively early as a startup to go multi product, but we said, like, we got to do it. It's like, totally time.

I think it was just, like, a really motivating message for everybody of sort of, like, what's in our control, and, like, we're, you know, we could just kind of, like, roll over or we could, like, fight back. Yeah. And I think it ended up actually being, like, a very galvanizing year for everybody to see. Like, two of the three products took off. We had to kill one.

And I think it was also even that was a good experience. Like, oh, here's what it's like to ship a product that, like, we don't think it makes sense to keep investing in. Like, the appetite isn't there, but, like, let's really build out these, these other two and just, like, be really bold about that. And I think it let mostly myself, our team, focus on what was in our control instead of this, like, you know, opening up the news and seeing like, ah, some other big customer just did a huge riff. Yeah, we're about to sign a deal at this company.

Shoot. Are they going to do it? I just, like, focused on what was in our control. What do you see on the horizon in terms of the future of work? And are there any things you feel comfortable with us that you are beginning to think about and prepare for as you look kind of even beyond the next one to two years?

Speaker C
But, like, where is the world going? And what does that mean for a company like Athena? I think about a couple maybe of trends. I was actually just talking to a reporter yesterday about Dei, and I feel like that has been, for example, something where it was, like, everybody was interested, oh, my gosh, there's a backlash, you know, this kind of thing. And so maybe taking one, like, future work from that lens.

Roxanne Petraeus
As I talk to employees to see, like, next generation coming into the workforce, the idea of, like, Dei, which admittedly is, like, a poorly defined phrase, and, you know, you can sort of, like, stuff into it, any meaning that you, you want. But I think it's just, like, here to stay. Like, there's not. I've never talked to, like, an employee. He's like, you know what?

I don't know. I think the workplace was better when, like, women weren't around and, like, actually, like, homogenous teeth. Like, boy, do I like this. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I think there's just a real buy in and not to be, like, generational about it, but you certainly see it in particular in, like, the younger generation of, like, this kind of table stakes. Like, yeah, man. Like, are we. This is sort of the terms that I had to learn they grew up with. And so I think there's, like, much being made about a Dei backlash, but at least in terms of, like, company building, in terms of the environments that I top talent want to be in, I don't see any, like, you know, desire for people to be on teams that, like, don't reflect sort of, like, their friend group, their peer group.

Like, I. Yeah, that may be one. I think that it dovetails with remote work. So, you know, I mentioned I'm pregnant. I had my first son, or I have this, like, dramatic experience of signing a term sheet at the.

Going into labor, you know, and, like, I think that, like, remote work allows me to be a mom and a CEO, and if I had to go into the office, it'd be really, really hard for me to, you know, start working as soon as I did. After my, my first son, for example. Yeah. Many of my colleagues who are, you know, dealing with daycare pickup and their pumping and their infertility treatments and whatever, and it's like, I think that Dei and remote work overlap a lot. And that's not to say I don't see the benefits of collaborating.

And I love when I get my team together, but I think it's going to be really hard to take a generation of, in particular women, but, like, just for a bunch of reasons, caregivers parents solve it and say, like, just kidding. Work happens from nine to five in this building. That's my opinion?

Yeah, those may be my, like, teaser for what's ahead.

Thomas
And now it's time for spoken stories where we hear from some of the people who make the organizations we feature run. This week I had the pleasure of chatting with Melanie Maranjo, the VP of people at Athena, and Courtney Rinden from customer success at Athena. And they both shared their answers to the question what they really loved about Athena? Here's what they had to say.

Melanie Maranjo
Hi, my name is Melanie Naranjo. I'm the VP of people here at Athena. And what I love most about working here is just how passionate everyone is about building a product that drives meaningful change at workplaces all across the world. Whether that's by making an HR person's job just a little bit easier or helping employees bring their best selves to work. We build trainings that employees actually like.

And as a fellow people person, it's really inspiring seeing the entire team come together day after day to create a product that really works. Hi there, this is Courtney Rindon from customer success at Athena. And what gets me most excited about working at Athena is our thoughtful approach to literally everything. So whether you're an existing customer or not, you'll see from our learning experience to our course content, to our relationships long term and all of the resources and enablement materials we have on our website, we really just want you and your team to have a thoughtful, safer, more equitable workplace. And that's what we're all about.

Thomas
And that brings us to the end of today's episode. As I reflect on my conversation with Roxanne and what she's built at Athena, I'm struck by how where I and most people saw a problem to be endured, Roxanne saw an opportunity to be harnessed. At its core, that really is all entrepreneurship is. Looking around for the problems that people find frustrating, but perhaps have never dared to imagine would be different, and choosing to imagine a better way and then having the discipline to work incredibly hard to make that better way a reality. As I leave you this week, I invite you to think about some of the problems in your life right now that you might feel like you just have to endure.

What might it be like to look at them as challenges, but also opportunities to do something different? How can you leverage your imagination to turn something around? As always, this is venture visionaries, and I'm Thomas. I'll see you soon.

Speaker C
I'll see you soon.

Beyond The Battlefield: Leadership Lessons with Roxanne Petraeus, CEO Ethena

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1: Introduction

2: Career Journey

3: Leadership Philosophy

4: Future of Work

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