Inquire Anomalous Presents [Ep 2]: Dr. Michael P. Masters on Extratempestrials & Contact Experiences

This episode explores the concept of extratempestrials and human contact experiences, focusing on the hypothesis that UFOs and aliens may be future human descendants studying their own evolutionary past.

1. Extratempestrial Hypothesis: The idea that extraterrestrials may actually be future humans who have developed the technology to travel back in time to study their ancestors.
2. Scientific Interdisciplinarity: Masters integrates anthropology, physics, and astrobiology to support his hypothesis, emphasizing a multidisciplinary approach to understanding UFO phenomena.
3. Personal Experiences: Masters discusses his personal encounters with non-human intelligences, providing insights into the emotional and psychological impacts of such experiences.
4. Time Travel Viability: The discussion delves into the scientific theories supporting the possibility of time travel, including the impact of such technology on human understanding of space and time.
5. Cultural and Ethical Implications: The episode touches on the broader cultural and ethical implications of human-alien encounters and the potential future of humanity.

1: Introduction

Dr. Michael P. Masters introduces the topic and outlines the central hypothesis of the episode, blending scientific theory with personal narrative. Michael P. Masters: "We're exploring the possibility that the strange beings in UFOs might actually be us from the future."

2: The Extratempestrial Model

Detailed explanation of how evolutionary biology and paleoanthropology support the idea that aliens could be future humans. Michael P. Masters: "Integrating disciplines allows us to approach the UFO phenomenon with a fresh perspective."

3: Personal Anecdotes

Masters shares his personal experiences with alleged extratempestrial beings, enhancing the episode's human element. Michael P. Masters: "My personal encounters have shaped my views on the nature of these beings."

4: Scientific Foundations

Discussion of the scientific foundations for time travel and its implications for the extratempestrial hypothesis. Michael P. Masters: "Time travel is not just science fiction; it has a basis in real scientific principles."

5: Conclusion

Summarizes the episode's key points and reflects on the potential future implications of the hypothesis. Michael P. Masters: "This hypothesis could redefine our understanding of ourselves and our place in the cosmos."

1. Keep an Open Mind: Embrace interdisciplinary approaches to explore new theories about human existence and the universe.
2. Critical Thinking: Apply critical thinking when evaluating unconventional theories, considering both scientific support and potential biases.
3. Personal Reflection: Reflect on how personal experiences can inform and inspire scientific inquiries.
4. Community Engagement: Engage with communities and discussions around topics of future human potential and extraterrestrial life to broaden perspectives.
5. Educational Pursuit: Encourage educational pursuits in diverse scientific disciplines to build a foundation that supports complex hypotheses like time travel and human evolution.

The podcast is going to be on hiatus for a few more weeks as I work with the Ontocalupse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries, The Beyond: UFOs & A New Reality, which is due out this summer.

But I didn’t want to leave you hanging, so in the meantime, I’ve teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal Inquiry into Anomalous Experience and the Phenomenon conferences. In the second episode in this series, you’re going to hear what is one of my all-time favorite talks from Inquire Anomalous, which was given by Dr. Michael P. Masters this last December.

Regular listeners of the show are already familiar with Mike Masters as the guy who, quite literally, wrote the book on the extratempestrial hypothesis. You can find links to that and all of Mike’s books in the episode brief.

In his talk at Inquire Anomalous, Mike spoke publicly for the very first time about his own experiences of contact with non-human intelligences, including a very strange incident that occurred at the International UFO Congress in 2022. I was lucky enough to be present for this talk and to get to talk to Mike afterward, and I was absolutely blown away by his ability to speak so candidly about what he has experienced—and even more so by his bravery in stepping forward publicly. I’m deeply grateful to Mike for being willing to take that leap, and for inspiring me to do the same.

If you’d like to watch the full video of this interview, that will be posted on the Inquire Anomalous YouTube channel next week.

People

Michael P. Masters

Companies

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Books

"Identified Flying Objects," "The Extratempestrial Model," "Full Circle"

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Content Warnings:

None

Kelly Chase

Hey guys, I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for listening. This podcast is truly a labor of love. I do my best with every single episode to bring you content that you can't find anywhere else, from meticulously researched deep dives to probing conversations with top experts in the field. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider supporting this work by becoming a patron. Patrons get access to new episodes before anyone else, as well as access to the ad free version of the podcast.

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You can find the link in the episode description. T Mobile has invested billions to light up America's largest 5g network, from big cities to small towns, including right here in yours, and great coverage is just the beginning. Right now, families and small businesses can save up to 20% versus at and T and Verizon when they switch. Visit your local T Mobile store today.

Plan savings with three lines of T Mobile essentials versus comparable available plans. Plan features and taxes and fees may vary.

Kelly Chase

Welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole podcast. I'm your host, Kelly Chase. The podcast is going to be on hiatus for a few more weeks as I work with the ontocalypse team to wrap up production on our upcoming docuseries the Beyond UFO's and a new reality, which is due out this summer. But I didn't want to leave you hanging, so in the meantime, I've teamed up with Jay Christopher King to bring you guys a series of unreleased talks from the phenomenal inquiry into anomalous experience in the Phenomenon conference series. In the second episode of this series, you're going to hear what is one of my all time favorite talks from Inquire Anomalous, which was given by Doctor Michael P.

Masters this last December. Regular listeners of the show are already familiar with Mike Masters as the guy who quite literally wrote the book on the extra tempestual hypothesis. You can find links to that in all of Mikes books in the episode brief in his talk at Inquire Anomalous, Mike spoke publicly for the very first time about his own experiences of contact with non human intelligences, including a very strange incident that occurred at the International UFO Congress in 2022. I was lucky enough to be present for this talk and to get to talk to Mike afterwards, and I was absolutely blown away by his ability to speak so candidly about what he has experienced, and even more so by his bravery in stepping forward publicly. I'm deeply grateful to Mike for being willing to take that leap and for inspiring me to do the same.

If you'd like to watch the full video of this interview that will be posted on the inquire anomalous YouTube channel next week, I was lucky enough to also get to sit down with Mike for a full interview where we dove more deeply into his thoughts around consciousness, contact, and the other strangeness that ends up infiltrating your life when you work in the field of ufology. You can find that interview over on Whitley Strieber's phenomenal Dreamland podcast, where I've been serving as the monthly guest host. That's all linked up in the episode description. Before we begin, I'd also like to mention that this episode is brought to you by the Experiencer group. The Experiencer group is a private online community dedicated to support curiosity and community for people who've had anomalous events of all kinds of they hold regular support meetings for people who are processing anomalous experiences, book clubs, special guest speaker presentations, and more.

You can learn more and sign up@tegmembers.com dot the link is in the episode description. All right, without further ado, here is Jay introducing Doctor Michael P. Masters Doctor. Michael P. Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University.

Jay Christopher King

He received his PhD in anthropology from the Ohio State University. That's very important. Go bucks in 2009 where he specialized in hominin, evolutionary anatomy, archaeology and biomedicine. Recent research examines the premise that UFO's and aliens could be our descendants returning to study their own evolutionary past. In 2019, he published identified Flying Objects, a multidisciplinary scientific approach to the UFO phenomenon, a broad based scientific examination of this idea.

His other books are the extra tempestual model, which personally I find amazing. Full Circle press 2022 and the future human past. Please give it up for Michael P. Masters. Thanks everybody, and thank you Jay and Leslie and James for having me here.

Michael P. Masters

Special thanks to Jay who had to kill his lunch break to help me with some technical difficulties, but we got it all sorted out. They tell me I can sleep when I'm dead. No sleep till Brooklyn my friend. So yeah, I want to talk about some of the main points associated with this extra tempestrial model as I call it. Other names as well.

The idea has been around. The earliest I could find was the forties, and recently, 1931, I found a fiction novel written about the idea that brings in a lot of things to the extent that it almost seems like it came from somewhere. So I don't know. But the idea has been around for a long time. What I tried to do was combine my knowledge in anthropology, I'm specifically a paleoanthropologist, so hominin evolutionary anatomy with what we know of astronomy, physics and astrobiology to try to make a case for this idea that they could potentially be us, not all of them.

This isn't mutually exclusive with any other theory. In fact, I think it's probably a lot of things going on. But I do think we should consider this idea, especially in the context of our own evolution. I'll go into some of that. Not just the evolution of our morphological form, but also our technology.

If we look at all of those together, there is some indication that this might be worth pursuing. Importantly, especially in a scientific context, it's also testable and falsifiable. And the extraterrestrial hypothesis, more of a model, doesn't lend itself to the testability aspect, but this is testable by time itself. It predicts that at some point, we will become them, the ones getting in these craft, going back in time, doing these things to our ancestors. And it's falsifiable because even if we blow ourselves up, we've tested the theory, we falsified it.

There's nobody left to know. They're all dead. But at least we would know whether or not it's accurate. So, like I said, this isn't mutually exclusive with other models. I think we should consider all available evidence in the context of any theory that makes sense.

How put off. Just put out a paper called ultra terrestrial model or something like that, arguing the same thing. Let's start with what we know, what we have. Let's have all these different theories available and then whittle them away as more evidence presents itself. And I think that's a good starting point, because nobody knows.

I certainly don't know. Not claiming to know. But it is important to focus on these things and look at them holistically, so that maybe we can move toward knowing. So what I'd like to do at the beginning part of this, I'd like to talk about some really anomalous experiences I've had over the last year and a half as well. Since this is the anomalous experience conference, inquiry into.

But first, I'd like to go through some of the main points associated with this idea, one stems from looking at astrobiology and astronomy. It's unlikely that we would have beans that look so much like us, act like us, with technology similar to us that evolved at the same way on a different planet, in a different solar system, different gravity, distance from their sun, probably a different coding system. They might not even have DNA in the same way that we do. It could be silicone based instead of carbon based. There's all of these things that went into us becoming the way we are over the 3.8 billion years of life.

We have DNA. Every other living thing does, too, because we all have a common ancestor going back to 3.8 billion years ago. So it's unlikely that we would see such similar forms with such similar technology that's seemingly built on top of what we have now. We can draw a lot of connections between our technology and what we see in a lot of these accounts to allow for contact, communication. Paul Hynek Jalen Hynek's sons, one of his two sons, always says, how would they find us?

Why would they care? And he thinks that this model sort of helps to answer a couple of those questions. The two main questions, they could find us because they live on this planet, too, or possibly elsewhere, but they know we're here because we're their ancestors. Why would they care? Because we're their ancestors, in the same way that I care what my ancestors were doing.

And I spent my adult life studying that, digging up fossils, analyzing them, looking at their morphological form and these evolutionary changes, because they are us, and we can understand ourselves by understanding our past and for communication to take place, copulation. There's a number of instances of actual sex happening and kind of an extension of what I said earlier, it takes the requisite parts for sex to take place. And if we're able to do that, it also indicates some sort of homologous aspects of homology and our physiology. If the hybridization aspect of this phenomenon is also taking place. By definition, the main definition that we've used since the time of Cuvier and Buffon and Jean Baptiste de la Marc, the biological species concept or classification scheme that if you can take two organisms, have them reproduce, and they produce viable offspring, we consider them the same species.

So classic example is the donkey and the horse. They can make a mule, but the mule's infertile, so we consider them separate species. If that mule was able to reproduce, we'll consider them the same. So if this hybridization is happening, and it seems like there's some indication that it is, we would have to consider them the same biological species. Then, in the context of what I do, I'm left to work with fossils, fossilized bones and teeth.

But if I could go back and pick up my ancestors, there's a whole wealth of information that could be garnered from those types of experiences, and I would do the exact same things that are described in these cases of close contact. I would pick them up, I'd examine their hair, their skin, their teeth, take skin samples, fecal samples, gametes, all of the information I could acquire during this instance of close contact, where I'm sampling everything that I could possibly get for future knowledge. They can breathe our air, speak our languages. Some even know the future. I talk about my second book, the extra tempestrial model, Mike and Leo Dwarczak.

Leo had contact with these same individuals his entire life, and they told him when he was young, don't bother talking about this. No one will believe you. But when you get older, you can talk about it, because people will start to come around to the fact that this is real. And that's exactly what happened. They also were studying grasshoppers.

They said specifically that we're doing this to monitor the planet as the earth gets deeper into trouble, indicating they knew where we were going ecologically and environmentally. And it'd be hard to argue that they weren't right about that either. Another thing that Leo experienced, a lot of others do as well, is that they have these lifelong interactions with these others, but they don't seem to age. These others, these beings don't age could be argued to be an aspect of their life history cycle. Maybe they have slowed ontogeny, and that is also an aspect of human evolution.

Or it could be that they're doing a longitudinal study throughout that abductees lifetime. What seems like they get picked up at age eight, they see them up until old age, but you're able to do that over a couple days. You go pick someone up, go have some coffee, come back and pick them up. Five, eight years later, do the same thing. You do that enough, you're going to see that person grow up, but you're not going to age because it's a couple days to you.

So that could be an aspect of this as well. And one that I find really interesting is that in case after case, you can see how Puthoff calls the space time metric that they seem to be engineering, the space time metric that they're modifying the rate at which time passes in and around these craft. And Jim Penniston in the Rendlesham Forest experienced this and described it as a sphere of influence, which I think is important for a couple reasons. It could be an aspect of the missing time that people experience. I talk about my second book, the Case of Corporal Armando Valdez in Chile, 1977, where he approached this craft.

His six men platoon watched him disappear. When he reappeared 15 minutes in their frame of reference. Five days had passed for that corporal, and you could look at that a couple different ways, but his watch read five days into the future, and his beard that was cleanly shaven was grown out about what you expect over the course of five days. So clearly, there's some sort of differential change or modification to the rate at which time passes in and around these. And when I published my first book in 2019, not long after, I was contacted by an individual claimed to be former intelligence agent.

And it's really hard to vet people when they're telling you these things, of course, but they said something that was impactful, based on reading my book. They said that what we see with these craft when they're doing these insane maneuvers, these 10,000 g maneuvers, obviously, nothing could survive that inside. No biological being, at least. But he's saying that they're not feeling time that way. They're basically slowing down time outside of their frame of reference and in context of how we see them and these near misses with planes.

And it's very likely based on what this individual said. And it just kind of makes sense that they see maybe that 10,000 g maneuver as a one g maneuver, and people who have been in these craft that take off at tremendous speed don't feel anything. So they might be using this time manipulation aspect in accordance with the anti gravity characteristics of these craft in order to mitigate those g forces altogether. It would also help explain why, when we shoot at them, they can elude us so easily that we seem like these really slow moving drunk sloths and they're just zipping around us. It would also help camouflage them, because we can't register things that move that fast.

So it could be something they do to hide themselves, to keep themselves safe. There could be any number of things, but there's a lot of cases that seem to indicate that they are manipulating the space time metric. And what we see is a different perception of these temporal reference frames. What we see is very fast. They might see it as us moving slow and then moving at a normal speed.

Then the main thing that got me interested in this, the tender age of eight years old, is just the fact that they look like us. Obviously, not all of them do come back to that in a second. But they seemingly have a lot of characteristics of hominins, our own modern human species, going all the way back six to 8 million years ago with the branch that took us in this direction, chimpanzees in this other direction, who, because their environment didn't change very much, they didn't change very much. Meanwhile, we had a tremendous rate of change and a lot of things that happened that made us very unique relative to not just them, but all mammals on this planet. Come back to that here in a second.

But again, not just that we wouldn't expect to see these traits, but the traits that they are described having, especially these archetypal gray aliens, seemingly have characteristics that we would expect in our own future. And that was really what drew me into this. And the main thing that we see is a trade off in our faces and our brains. And that's all this chart demonstrates. It's a.

A factor analysis looking at our average face and our average neurocranium. So it's height, width, length, and then the geometric mean of those. I did something similar for my own PhD research, but you can see if we look at modern apes over on the left and toward the bottom, they have a lot of face and very little brain. And if we go through and look at australopithecines in the little green, whatever that shape's called, pentagon something, doesn't matter. Philanthropist Chad Ensis, you can see that they start to have smaller faces, bigger brains, and that one on the second one from the left actually got to hold that skull in Pretoria, South Africa, as part of my research.

And you can pop off the top and look down in the brain case. It was a pretty crazy moment for me, given my interest in this and then extinct Homo. So, homo Heidelbergensis botoensis, even the Neanderthals, even though they're not our direct ancestors, have these same characteristics. And then anatomically modern homo sapiens sapiens, small face, big brain. And importantly, it's not just that our brains got bigger, but it's how they changed.

And you can see from just comparing homo erectus to homo sapiens sapiens ourselves that there's a forward movement of the frontal lobes out over top of the eyes. And, in fact, that's a unique characteristic of us. We also have a chin and something called neurocranial globularity, where our brains expand medial, laterally, and especially in the parietal lobes. So they're expanding and moving forward, moving out from left to right, and they're also moving down, especially in the cerebellum and the occipital lobes, because of what's known as cranial flexing, which I'll come back to here in a second. So, when I'm not doing UFO research, the main thing I look at is how this relates to vision in a functional sense.

So we are heavily affected by juvenile onset myopia, especially in east asian populations who have an even more extreme version of this cranial facial bowel plan, as we call it, the configuration where the eye may be affected by the brain growing out over it and the face retracting and being reduced underneath it. So how does that affect the eye itself? And what we see is that the eye becomes elongated. That's what myopia is. We have an elongated eye, so the focal length is in front of where it should be and the retina.

And if you think about sticking a tennis ball in your eye socket, your eye orbit, and squishing it down, you'd expect it to pop out. It's the only place it can go if it's being. Force is being applied above and below it, and there is some indication that's what's going on. There's also just less space. If we look at a chimpanzee's ocular anatomy, there's a lot more fat.

There's a lot more room for that ocular fat, the rectus muscles and everything around it. But something I would like to draw your attention to here is chimps. They're not our ancestors in the sense that we can just take them and plant them in 6 million years ago. They've changed, too, but they've evolved far less. So they're kind of a surrogate for how we can understand our evolutionary anatomy.

So you can see the, the frontal lobe in a chimpanzee, it sits back behind the eye, and the whole brain kind of slopes up. And the reason that ours is so unique is because we stood upright. That really ushered in a number of changes that made us unique early on, where as you stand up, you need to be able to see where you're going. So our heads rotated down, and that meant that our foramen magnum, where your spinal cord passes, had to move anteriorly, so it comes forward and it flexes the entire base of cranium. Our face is retracting, being reduced.

Our base of cranium is flexing to allow the foramen magnum to also move down and forward, and that flexes the entire thing. And what that does is I often compare this to a slinky. I think my PhD advisor pointed that out, that if you think of the face as the front of the slinky, the frame and magnum as the back of the slinky, and you bend them toward each other, what happens? The slinky bows out on the top. So that certainly contributed to why we have the brain cases that we do.

And then culture and a number of other things also came into play. And more recently, another trend that characterizes more recent human evolution is self domestication. We see a lot of the same things that we see in other animals that we've domesticated in ourselves, because since agriculture, it started before agriculture, but really took off as we became sedentary. We were forced to get along, even though we don't, and we didn't. We kind of had to more than we did before.

You can't just move if you're not getting along with your neighbors, you have to find ways to live amongst them. So we see selection for pro social behaviors. We also see lack of pigmentation. There's been studies done with foxes. They sort of turn into dogs.

Their tail droops and they start barking and just making domesticated dog sounds. We'll be right back after this quick break. T Mobile has invested billions to light up America's largest 5G network, from big cities to small towns, including right here in yours. And great coverage is just the beginning. Right now, families and small businesses can save up to 20% versus at and T and Verizon when they switch.

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Michael P. Masters

And so to look at this in quantitative terms, I did what's called a geometric morphometric analysis, where you take all these points from along the skull, and then you can factor out size in this cartesian coordinate grid. Get rid of size to look at shape alone. So if we look at the average of male and female, the individual over on the left, it's funny how much this mirrors patterns in our cranial facial anatomy over evolutionary time. And you'll see that more in the next slide. So, on the left, the extreme male shape is very australopithecine esque.

Big face, small, narrow, sloping forehead, move to the average of males and females. And as we move to the right, what we see is arguably what you could interpret as this is no way predicting that this is what we will look like. But if this trend continued and we did see the same 30,000 year old pattern continue into the future, we have a lot of these same traits. The medial lateral expansion, the further reduction and retraction of the face, the higher forehead. It's the bigger brain case in general.

And I animated this to show kind of what this looks like. It's running a little slower than normal, so I'll take a drink of water.

But just watch what happens to the face. It comes back in. And you see in the back, the cerebellum, the occipital lobes are coming down. They're moving in an inferior direction, as we say. But in this next cycle, watch the eye orbits.

This is the main thing I study. So you go from having low, rectangular I orbits that slope down as we move toward the extreme female shape, which, again, may or may not be an aspect of our evolutionary future. They come up, up and out. And that's described time and time again in all of these close encounters where the eyes are described as being kind of wraparound eyes, and you can see that in the craniofacial anatomy, especially up there in the top, outside corners of the eyes. So, again, this isn't saying this is where we're going and this is what we will look like, but it's important to recognize that if these are future human descendants, what we see does correlate with what we'd expect to see, not just if this trend continues, but the same dominant hominin evolutionary trends that characterize the last six to 8 million years also continue into the future.

And it's not speculating about what we might look like if we are seeing them and they are our descendants. It's an observational study, and that's what we do in anthropology, and it's so great to see so many anthropologists here. We work with humans. We can't do experiments on humans anymore, fortunately, but we can observe things about humans and still do hypothesis testing, still get our p values and our r squared values, but we do it through observational research. So if we are seeing them in the future coming back, we can observe them and learn things about that.

So I went out of my way to avoid speculating about what will happen between now and whatever point or points most likely they might be coming back from in the future and just really focus on dominant trends in human evolution. And it's not just us. It's not just the last six to 8 million years, but they have two arms and two legs. They're four limbed creatures, which goes back 400 million years on this planet. With tetrapods.

You have whales and snakes and bats. They're all characterized by these same tetrapodal characteristics. We've just diverged in the sense that we use those same limbs for different purposes. But being that these beings are described as being tetrapods or having two arms and two legs, is important. And it's also important.

I mentioned this from time to time. If we're talking about something that looks like a praying mantis or something that is a praying Manus, because praying Manus have six legs, but from everything I've seen, they look like it in the face, really big eyes, and creepy cranial facial characteristics. But if they don't have six legs, they're not actually praying Manuses. Five digits on each hand. That goes along with the tetrapod configuration as well.

Bipedalism is the trait that defines our lineage. We walk upright on two limbs. We're the only mammal on this whole entire planet that does that all the time. We're the only habitual biped. And because I did a study in 2016, then again repeated it in 2022, looking at the Kepler data, the NASA data, exoplanetary habitability, laboratory data from the University of Puerto Rico, and found that between two and 4% of all of the exoplanets that have been found so far are the same size as or smaller than Earth.

And if we're the only mammal that full time walks on two limbs on this planet, and we suffer from all kinds of problems because of that, it's less likely that other animals who evolved on a bigger planet would also be bipedal, simply because of the force of gravity. Big round heads. It's a characteristic of our craniofacial evolution, cranial globularity, which, again, is just a big extra round head. It's a shape thing. Small faces, two large eyes.

I won't get into the details of this too much, it's pretty technical. But pleiotropy just means you have the same gene or set of genes that controls for what appears to be two different traits. And the eye grows out of the forebrain, the telencephalon, during early fetal ontogeny. It is part of the brain. So if our brains are getting bigger, we expect that our eyes are getting bigger, too.

They're basically the same trait, at least genetically. Patomorphosis, also an important trend. Don't have time to go into that one. The languages, the technology, there's just a lot of things that indicate that they may be us if these same trends continue into the future. Again, I'm not saying that is the case, but it's certainly something that we should consider, especially because the vast majority of cases do involve very hominid or hominin looking individuals.

So last thing I'll say about the idea itself is, you know, how do we know that there's a lot of different forms described, and we should absolutely take into account everything that's described. We can't just throw out data that doesn't fit the model. We need to bring all of it in and consider it holistically. But there was one study, there's a lot of issues with survey data. Anybody that works in the social sciences is aware of that.

But the doctor Edgar Mitchell foundation, the free study shows that a lot of people are interacting with humans and human looking beings, despite there being bias in the question. Did you observe a non human intelligence? People still said, yeah, I saw a human, actually. And, you know, they did a great study, and I have to credit them with that. But it's kind of a leading way of asking.

But after human looking, the next most common responses were short grays, tall grays, and hybrids. And if you're wondering why these don't sum to 100, it's because a lot of people saw different forms in the same craft. And there's case after case where that is what's described. But it's important to point out that based on how we classify our own species being upright walking, all of these would be hominins, clearly different versions of them, possibly as a result of intertemporal breeding hybridization that might be taking place across different time periods, which I do think is part of it. But these would all be classified as hominins.

And interestingly, the ones who interacted with the more human looking forms, which again, is the majority, 85%, reported a positive or neutral experience, which I think is important to point out, we have this sort of stereotype, and the movie industry didn't help with this at all. People being pulled out of bed, sucked up into a ship, having things shoved in their butts, all kinds of weird stuff happening. That's obviously shocking and jarring, and we should take that into account too. People have different reactions. And it's too bad that the probe aspect has dominated the narrative in pop culture, because I would do the same thing, like I said, if I could go back in time.

You can learn so much about someone's diet from taking fecal samples. It's very invasive, and that's unfortunate. A lot of this is, and as my editor pointed out, learning about the microbiome of the gut, it might be more than just what they ate, but, like, what's going on in our guts, we're starting to learn that there's a lot of things that, that impacts as well, or effects with regard to overall health and well being. So only 5% of the ones that interacted with these more human looking individuals reported an actual negative experience. And obviously, everybody's different.

Everybody experiences it differently. I found some patterns with regard to who's allowed to remember it. And researching and writing my second book, the extra tempestual model, where what I found is that the valence of the interaction seems to correlate with whether or not people were allowed to remember the experience. So more positive experience. They're given tours of the ships, they're allowed to ask questions and hang out.

They were allowed to remember everything. People that were the ones sucked out of bed, kicking and screaming, they were made to forget a lot of it. Screen memories, amnesia, UFO amnesia. And that was most likely not to protect their identity, but to protect the people that were taken, which shows they kind of care. They're not treating us like lab rats, they're treating us like equals to some extent.

But again, everybody's experience is different. But then one other thing that came out of this that Ray Hernandez oftentimes points out, the editor of the study, is that as it happened, more people start to be okay with it or even come to enjoy it. I remember in Whitley Strieber's book that he co authored with Jeff Kraepel, the Supernatural, he's talking about going back behind his cabin, begging for more contact, calling out to them, come talk to me again. So because this is the inquiry into anomalous experiences conference, I kind of wanted to look at that in the context of some personal experiences I've been having lately. The same thing happened to me.

You're confronted with knowledge of a different reality than what you thought reality was, which forces you to kind of reconceptualize reality, our place in the universe. So really, beginning just before the opening, the archives of the impossible conference. And that was in March? Early March, I think it was. A lot of you were there.

That's good to see, familiar faces. I had a moment of conscious precognition, and I've had dream precognition my entire life. But this was one of about five or six conscious precog moments where I went and picked up my phone, and I was like, oh, it's weird. My wife hasn't called me to pull her out of the snow yet. My wife's never gotten stuck in the snow.

They happened to miss the bus stop where we drop our kids off, had to follow it. Went to turn around on a street she'd never been on. Looked like flat snow as a giant ditch. Took us about an hour to pull her out. So as I'm standing there looking at my phone, thinking this, my wife calls, stuck in the snow.

Can you come get me? I was like, that was weird.

And it gets a lot weirder. So just about a week before this conference, I was standing out my driveway, and my neighbors have this really bright security light. And I had the sense that I was communicating with it, that I was having a conversation with this light. I was having a lot of anxieties about going to this conference. I was on a panel with Eric Wargo, guy who wrote the book on precognition.

So the phone call thing was weird, and Aaron Prophet and a number of other individuals. But I was just feeling, like, the stress that you feel before going to one of these things. I'm sure a lot of you can sympathize with that. So there were a lot of things said. Well, one of the main things was, will my family be safe?

I was really concerned about leaving all the time. And will there be any impacts, hitchhiker effects, or actual physical effects on my family? Was assured there wouldn't be. But again, I went to bed, woke up the next morning, oh, that was all in my head. It didn't really happen.

So later that year, I walked up. A lot of people will describe the same sort of thing. Felt like I was called up or summoned to this hill behind my house. I walk up, I turn around. I took this at dusk, but it was about 12:00 at night.

I'd had a couple whiskeys. Wasn't, like, drunk or even buzzed. But I like to acknowledge that because the stereotype is drunk and high, people's UFO's not the case. So I walked up the hill, turned around. There's these five bright lights equally spaced on top of what's known as the east ridge, just to the east of Butte, Montana, where I live.

And I was like, well, that's weird. Those aren't usually there. And all the prosaic explanations go through your head. What is that? Not stars too close to the horizon, too bright.

Not a plane not moving, just sitting there, still struggling to comprehend. But then all of a sudden, from right to left, they just shot off at tremendous speed, one at a time, and toward the southeast, starting with the bigger one on the right. Classic, you know, UFO, what people describe, so that that also seemed anomalous. And then just before I went to the International UFO Congress, I was really burnout. I was tired of traveling.

I got two small children and a lovely wife, and I just. I didn't want to do it anymore. So I decided as I'm washing dishes, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm just going to kind of fade into the background, and I've got some books out. People want to know more about this.

Read the damn books, because I'm going to bed, and my wife was sitting behind me on the couch, and I thought about telling her, I don't want to get into a thing. She's going to ask me why I want to quit. And I don't really feel like talking about it, so I just kind of sat with it. It's like, I'll go give this talk, I'll finish this last book, and then I'm done. Skis.

So, about a week later, I went to this conference, the international UFO Congress, put on by Alejandro Rojas and Karen Bard. Excellent, people. And it was at this conference hotel. How am I doing on time, Jay? You're doing good.

Jay Christopher King

We can go a little bit over. I'm not going to take somebody else's time. I'll just go faster. When you're late for work, just drive faster. Right.

Michael P. Masters

So I gave my talk. This really incredible PhD flew out from Santa Barbara to meet with me because he feels like he's been interacting with these, what he calls future humans. He's had that confirmed to him his whole life. Met with him. There's this party in the vip room.

And then there's a big Halloween dance party downstairs in the ballroom where this whole thing was taking place. And so skip ahead a little bit. I'm down the dance party. I run out of money for beer. One of the people who runs the audio video equipment saw this, comes up, says, hey, I've got a key to the vip room.

There's a ton of great micro brews up there, giant bottles of bourbon and vodka. Let's just go get some beers. We'll bring them down for everybody. So I'm like, cool, let's do that. Go upstairs, start shoving beers in my pockets to bring down all of our friends.

And she's like, oh, we can't go back yet. I was like, poor kay, my friend Eric wants to talk to you. I was like, who the hell is Eric? I was like, oh, you'll like him. He's a friend of mine.

He's great. You'll like him. So I started to get a little pissed off. A I couldn't go back to the party, and this Eric that needs to talk to me for what I was hoping was a very short conversation, wasn't showing up. So I eventually just gave up.

And I'm sitting on the balcony, and then Eric kind of materializes in the room, comes up, pulls his chair up to mine to the point where his knees, like, in my crotch, felt a little pain from that, even. And I started to get pretty pissed off. And he says, I can tell you're upset by this, but I need to be this close for this to work. And I said, okay. And then all of a sudden, all that aggression washed away.

The next thing really got in my head. He said, we know you've been thinking about quitting lately, and we'd really prefer you didn't do that yet. I thought I had in my head washing dishes, that I never told anybody, not even my damn wife sitting behind me. And I was like, how could you possibly know that? I never told anybody that.

And they said, once you know who we are, you'll know how we know that. And I don't really understand this either. I have so many questions about all of this. I telepathically said future humans as a question. I didn't know I could speak telepathically.

It just. It came out telepathic. I never opened my mouth. And they said, so you know how we did that? And I go, uh huh.

And then he goes on to say, you know, we really don't want you to quit yet. There's some things I think that you could contribute, and we'd really like you to do this very politely. And it was never he. I wasn't talking to this Eric person. They.

Whatever they is. And we can get into that in the question and answer if you'd like. Cause I still don't fucking know.

They were speaking through him. And a whole conversation ensued about 15 to 20 minutes. I was allowed to ask questions, covered a lot of different topics. First question that I asked, apparently still harping on the safety of my family thing was, will my family be safe throughout this? And they said, we already talked about that before you went to race university.

Was pretty sure that was just in my head. Turns out it was not. That was an actual conversation I was having with this same they prior to that conference. It was much easier when I thought it was on my head. Suddenly there's this individual with his knee in my junk, making me realize that that's not the case.

So at some point, the conversation shifted from being vocal. It's him here. Him. And then the woman that many abducted me, I guess you could say she was standing to my left. A lot of weird stuff happened in between.

The conversation shifted to being entirely telepathic. Felt like it was both in my head, but also above or around my head. And I still don't really understand this, but it was. It was like I could still hear their voices, but it was all one thing. It was just.

We were all conversating. I don't know, it was really strange, but. So the room starts filling up with people again. This is on the fourth floor balcony, that hotel that I showed a picture of. People start coming back up from the party downstairs because all the booze is in the vip room, and they know that they were coming back to get the booze.

At 1.3, individuals come out. It was getting hard for me to turn my head. He was like six to eight inches from my face. And I really couldn't move very much, but I could see out of my perfs that three people came out. They said, can you close the door behind you?

And all three turned at the same time, went inside, closed the door behind them. We continued this conversation, but felt some sense of urgency. And then finally they got to what this was all about. They said, we need to put three things in your brain that will be important for future times. You won't have access to it.

What will happen is your eyes will go dark. They'll still be completely open. You'll still be looking at me, but your eyes will go dark. And you'll kind of feel the information coming in. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

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Michael P. Masters

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Michael P. Masters

And by this point, I felt comfortable with them. They were very polite. They sought consent for this, very concerned about that. And I said, sure, have at you. Let's do that really weird thing you just described, because this can't get any weirder, so let's go for it.

And that's exactly what happened. My eyes went black, top to bottom, and I sensed all of this information started streaming into my brain. I could kind of see it as like colored waves of sorts. And clearly, like, I could understand it to some extent because the woman to my left, who now had her hand on my shoulder, would occasionally say, did you get that? And I go, huh.

Uh huh. Did you, did you see that part? Did you get that? Uh huh. Yeah.

Good. But I don't have any access to those memories. They told me I wouldn't. They said, we need to tuck this away. It'll come out when it's supposed to.

Cool, whatever. So they eventually, after, I'm guessing about 20 minutes, I have no idea because time disappeared entirely during this. But all of a sudden, you know, the darkness lifts and I can see again. And I turn. I get up and my head felt like a bowling ball.

I walked through this room. There were a number of concerned people that were like, why are you guys just staring at each other for that long. Like, none of us were moving. We were talking, communicating, but none of us were talking in the way people were used to seeing people talk. And a woman, I couldn't even lift my head, but she put her hand on my arm and said, are you okay?

They were concerned about me and what was happening. Uh huh. I was just in a zombie state. Went laid out on bed, flopped back, feet still on the ground, clothes still on. Woke up exactly like that, twelve or 13 hours later, and then just started crying uncontrollably.

It wasn't an emotional response. That's why I call it a physiological response. Here. I wasn't happy, sad, nothing. I just couldn't physically stop crying and kind of had to.

I was on a panel with price Sable and John Ramirez and Micah Hanks and Brian Bender and some other people that same afternoon. So I go down to take a book to my friend John Dover, the Navajo ranger who was sitting. I knew he was sitting at the welcoming table there. And all of a sudden, this Eric, the same individual from the night before, kind of materializes at the end of the hall. This empty hallway comes toward me and puts his hand on my shoulder and says, are you okay?

I was like, uh huh. Like, that's all I could say. I was just no idea what's going on in this life anymore. And he just sucked it all away. It's some kind of reiki thing, I guess.

All of a sudden. I was fine for that panel. We had a dinner that night, was fine for the dinner. Get home, and started thinking about just that occurrence. And there's a lot of experiencers here, obviously, compared to being sucked up into a ship and having all of these things done to you.

And this isn't a mind blowing interaction, but it really made me reconceptualize ego, consciousness. Just a lot of things that were forced into my reality that I hadn't considered before. I grew up a reductionist materialist. If we can't test it with a p value, what's the point of even talking about it? And I'd kind of been shifting away from that.

The flip. I'd kind of been flipping already, as our friend Jeff Kraepel would say. But the flip, the summer salt, started happening faster after this. For a while, I just. I couldn't really figure it out.

Our friend Darren King, in a very timely manner, posted a podcast describing some of his experiences. And it was really helpful for me to hear that because it was similar to this. I talked to Hussein about it not long after, just to see what a more sane person would have to say with something like this. And over time, it started to become normalized. Been other really weird stuff that's happened since, but you kind of just get used to it after a while.

It's like, well, that was weird, but I guess shit's just weird now, so whatever. And I kind of liken it to culture shock, where if you go to a different culture, depending on how different it is, the language is a big part of it. The geography, topography, climate, even if it's a really different place, different group of people, different culture, over the course of about two to three weeks, it just becomes normal. You kind of just get used to being there. I worked in South Africa, in the bush of South Africa, for two summers.

We didn't have hot water, no electricity to cook over a fire. I was there for a month and a half. Came home and just flipping light switches like, this is crazy. How does that work? So I think the human mind is capable of processing things, even if they are completely different from what we're used to.

And I say this because we might all have to deal with this soon, like humans, all of us. And there's this question, it's been a question, really, since the Orson Welles 1938 broadcast. HG Wells book. Like, can we deal with it? Will it be riots on the streets and chaos and anarchy and the purge?

I don't think so.

I think there's a good chance that it'll be hard. Some sort of cosmic shift, cosmic revolution in consciousness. But I think it could be good. And I think the human brain is very adaptable. So I'm hopeful for the future.

I'm hopeful for whatever happens, that it takes us to a better place. And I think. I think I have hope for the future of humanity. I'll say so. Thank you.

All right, great. Okay, so we. So Mike just blew a bunch of minds, probably, and we only kind of. We basically only have, like, ten minutes for q and a, tops. We're sold.

Jay Christopher King

So that we can kind of give. That's not bad. I told you, I practiced. It was 35 minutes. Yeah, you did pretty.

Michael P. Masters

Yeah, you did good. You did great. And so one thing that I'm wondering is, where's James? Ian? Dolly?

Jay Christopher King

James? Are you anywhere? Oh, hey, can you. Can you give me a hand for a second? Would you mind, like, doing a little proctoring of.

Michael P. Masters

Thanks. Anybody have a question? Questions, questions. Hello. Thank you so much for that great presentation.

The advent of artificial intelligence and the ability of large language models to collate vast amounts of data over recorded time will lead it to identify patterns, draw conclusions about the phenomenon not previously public or formally studied. This technology, perhaps an iteration of our time traveling descendants won't require access to classified information to bring forth patterns in supporting evidence of the phenomenon. With regard to your research and experiences, does this technology present a more positive or negative development in our evolution? You know, honestly, I see it as positive. A lot of people are doom and gloom about AI because, again, we watch a lot of movies, but I think I kind of see it as more of the, this feedback loop where we can learn more from them and they innately learn more from us.

Michael P. Masters

They, it, you know, whatever you want to call it. So I'm. Yeah, I'm bearish on AI. I think it can only help us grow our knowledge into the future. I don't see it as threatening.

Just don't put it in something with guns.

Next question.

So I'll ask a question. What do you think interacted with you in your experiences? Man, I don't know.

It was clearly a highly evolved consciousness. I'm reluctant to put any names to it. And I'd like to point out that when I telepathically asked future humans, they didn't say yes, they didn't say no. They allowed me to say it and then moved on. So I think.

I don't even think we can say they're future humans. Maybe. Maybe it's a highly evolved human consciousness with non local consciousness that can project into any time, read your thoughts, have conversations with you and in the middle of your driveway, but I'm not willing to, to ascribe nomenclature to it.

Hi, I'm Alex. Hi, Alex. And I was talking about an encounter I had in the military in 2004. And one of, I was talking about the technical questions that I've had in the years since. And one of the biggest ones is this question of time and time dilation.

And so maybe less of a question and more of just a yes and add on is that, you know, a lot of people want me and Commander Fravor and the other witnesses to that event to somehow, you know, reconcile our different timelines of what we saw and the maneuvers and all that. And so I just wanted to say that that whole sense, and I'm looking through my notes. I've taken, I think, seven pages while you were talking, and you wrote a book. I think I'm going to need a copy of that as well. I brought some to give away.

You and Josh. My library is quickly expanding here, so that whole question of the impact of time. Yeah, it's something I focused on a lot, because you have to. You can't be talking about time travelers without the time component. So I start all the way back with Einstein's theory of special relativity, general relativity, what we can know since then, different solutions to his field equations that demonstrate how we could create closed time like loops, potential paradoxes that arise.

Michael P. Masters

So, yeah, I think it's important to consider and with modern day encounters, too. So I've gone from having that be just an annoying question that I constantly get asked and have to justify and explain to now being. Yeah, well, it's important to also point out, we don't understand time. We know it's emergent. It comes from something fundamental.

So until we know what that fundamental aspect is that time emerges from, nobody can know. But what I try to do is put in a historical context and provide maybe a jumping off point for that next step. So hopefully it helps a little bit. No, thank you for shifting my paradigm just to kind of jump off of what you were just talking about. I know you've seen the series dark because you and I talked about that.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure a lot of people in the room have seen it, and I just wondered if you could comment on, like, how some of the themes that came through that show reflect on your work and what you think is most important about what that show had to offer. Yeah, I get asked all the time, what's the best time travel movie? What's the best? And I say, it's not a movie.

It's a show. It's a series. It's dark. And I. What I really appreciate about is they adhere to the Novikov self consistency principle, where when you go back into the past, you're not changing anything.

And that's where people get hung up with time travel. They think, oh, I'll go back. I'll kill my great. No, that's not how it works in the block universe, at least. So that's the most conventionally understood model for time.

The block universe that all moments exist from the very first to the very last, is one massive four dimensional block. And what I really appreciate about that show is they adhere to that, which is hard. As someone who's recently written a time travel story, science fiction, it's hard to do that. The easy thing is to say, well, it's just make a change here, make something different, and then you can go into all these different directions. But no, they adhered very well to the most conventionally understood model to explain time.

And I really appreciated that about the book, and it was just great. The character development, the story arc, all of it was awesome.

Jay Christopher King

All right, I've got one from the livestream, and then we can go to Jim. Is that okay? Thanks, Jim. And thanks, James. From a paleoanthropological perspective, is there any sense to the theories that aliens took part in our evolutionary advancement through genetic modification evidence?

Michael P. Masters

No. It gets mentioned a lot. I'm hesitant to say. There was. Without very strong evidence, clearly they're doing things that involve gametes with us.

Now, if that had been happening in the past, maybe if there's hybridization, if there's people who have, you know, unexplained pregnancies that seemingly involve the same types of things we see in modern day accounts, with dreams, with missing time. So clearly reproduction is important, but I have a hard time making any statements about that without very definitive proof. Okay, thank you. We'll go to Jim. Hi.

Hi, I'm Jim from the Experiencer podcast. I want to thank you for sharing. Your experience with us. It's not easy. Yeah, I know.

Yeah. And I appreciate all you people.

I dedicated my second book to people who have had experiences and are brave enough to talk about them, and I started to feel like a hypocrite by not talking about my own. Cause. That's what, that's how we learn, that's how we all grow our knowledge. So. Yeah, right on.

Speaking of reproduction, if future humans have disproportionately large heads compared to their bodies. Then through that evolution, their heads are. Getting bigger and their pelvises are getting smaller. So at what point would childbirth become impossible? Well, at no point.

Michael P. Masters

Yeah, no, she's right. That's. Let me give this back to you. So you could drop it. That's definitely a mic drop comment, but no, she's right.

In traditional, non western societies, 30% of women died in childbirth. So we reached that point a long time ago. We actually call it the big head small hole problem in evolutionary biology, but cesarean sections, it's eliminated that selective force in populations that have access to that technology. So we reached it a long time ago. But if you have access to modern day medical intervention technologies, we've relaxed that selective pressure.

So it's game on with the runaway train of brain growth. Okay, great. That's our time with doctor Mike Masters. Thanks, everybody.

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