Will Harris Break With Biden On Israel-Gaza Policy?

This episode examines Vice President Kamala Harris's position on the Israel-Gaza conflict, exploring whether her approach differs from President Biden's, especially in tone and emotional emphasis.

1. Harris largely aligns with Biden on policy but differs in tone, particularly in empathizing with Palestinian civilians.
2. Foreign policy, while crucial, is not typically a decisive factor in U.S. elections unless U.S. troops are involved.
3. Harris's potential influence in swing states like Michigan and Georgia could pivot on her nuanced approach to the Israel-Gaza conflict.
4. The Democratic Party shows signs of discontent with Netanyahu, affecting their broader stance on Israel.
5. Harris is viewed as less controversial than Biden in Arab-American communities, potentially impacting voter dynamics.

1: Introduction and Context

The hosts introduce the topic and set the stage for a detailed analysis of Vice President Harris’s position on the Israel-Gaza conflict, comparing it to President Biden's stance.
Ashley Lopez: "Is Vice President Harris's view on Israel's war in Gaza any different than President Biden's?"

2: Harris's Style and Political Implications

Discussion on Harris's empathetic communication style and its political implications, highlighting her empathetic remarks about Palestinian suffering. Asma Khalid: "Harris seems to emphasize emotionally and empathize with Palestinian civilians and the humanitarian crisis in particular."

3: Electoral Considerations and Voter Impact

Exploration of how Harris's stance might influence voters in the upcoming election, with a focus on swing states and voter demographics. Susan Davis: "Michigan, you have to put an asterisk here as one of the seven swing states that we're watching that could be determinative in the election."

4: Democratic Party's Stance on Netanyahu

The episode examines the broader Democratic Party's reaction to Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's policies and their impact on U.S. political dynamics. Susan Davis: "Scores of Democrats didn't show up for this."

5: Harris's Foreign Policy Challenges

An analysis of Harris's potential challenges in defining her foreign policy stance independently from Biden as she prepares for the presidential race. Susan Davis: "She is kind of a blank slate in this because she doesn't come to this. None of her political offices have come by way of foreign policy."

1. Stay informed on foreign policy issues to understand their domestic implications.
2. Engage in community discussions to reflect diverse political perspectives.
3. Consider the humanitarian aspects of foreign conflicts when evaluating political stances.
4. Pay attention to the subtleties of political communication that may reveal deeper policy orientations.
5. Evaluate the impact of international policies on local electoral politics, especially in swing states.

The vice president has been more vocal on the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza strip than President Biden, but she has maintained the administration's united front on policy. Will her position change as the campaign goes on?

This episode: voting correspondent Ashley Lopez, political correspondent Susan Davis, and White House correspondent Asma Khalid.

The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our intern is Bria Suggs. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.

People

Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, Benjamin Netanyahu

Companies

None

Books

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Guest Name(s):

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Content Warnings:

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Hey, there. It's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover voting.

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I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

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And I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

Speaker B
Today on the podcast. Is Vice President Harris view on Israel's war in Gaza any different than President Biden's Asma? You know, Vice President Harris has emphasized that she's pretty much on the same page as Biden on all this. But, you know, watching her through the last year or so, it's true that her style has been different when talking about this, right?

Speaker C
That's right. I mean, what I have heard from a number of people that I've interviewed, both, I would say, sort of inside the national security order, outside as well outside observers, is that Harris seems to emphasize emotionally and sort of empathize with palestinian civilians and the humanitarian crisis in particular. And this is something you have heard from her again and again. I think most notably was when she delivered remarks in March in Selma, Alabama. What we are seeing every day in Gaza is devastating.

We have seen reports of families eating leaves or animal feed, women giving birth to malnourished babies with little or no medical care. And she went on to describe this as being a humanitarian catastrophe. I mean, to be clear, the substance of what she has said about this conflict is pretty akin to what you hear from President Biden. But I think its style, its tone, its delivery that has caught the attention of some voters.

Speaker B
Yeah. And so clearly this is like an important humanitarian issue and matters on its merits. But I think one of the open questions is how salient this is gonna be for voters. Obviously, during the democratic primary, there was the uncommitted vote. This was very important to democratic primary voters. But what do we know about how Americans center issues like this since we're heading into a general election? Like, what are you sort of expecting here?

Speaker D
I think you have to look at an issue like this through two completely different lanes. The next president, this is going to be a significant foreign policy matter at the very top of the list that they will have to deal with from just a matter of geopolitics. So in that regard, it's very important. It's not to dismiss this issue in any way at all. But very broadly speaking, foreign policy is not a big driver. That's determinative in us domestic elections and certainly not presidential elections. The exception to that being when us troops are abroad, as we saw in the fallout after the Iraq war, which was a big contributing factor to Barack Obama's victory back in 2008 because the nation had so soured on the war in that conflict? I think when you look at this election and we'll see, because again, as Domenico said earlier this week, like we've almost hit the reset button and how people are viewing this. But consistently, people have said that while they may care about the situation in Gaza, it is not a huge driver of their vote. So I am skeptical that this is an issue that will dramatically change or swing an election. But as you noted, I do think obviously Michigan, you have to put an asterisk here as one of the seven swing states that we're watching that could be determinative in the election. As we said a million times, the margins matter. And if there is more warmth or more enthusiasm for Kamala Harris's candidacy over Joe Biden's, that could have an impact with communities like the arab american community there for sure.

Speaker C
Yeah, I do want to echo this point of the margins mattering because I do really think that the margins could be very tight in a number of states. There's not a whole lot of wiggle room. And in addition to Michigan, which has a very sizable arab american population, the state that I have heard about again and again and where I spent some time reporting on this issue was Georgia. President Biden won the state of Georgia by around 11,000 votes. And when I was down in this state a couple months ago, what was striking to me was that I didn't just hear from muslim voters or arab american voters. I heard deep concern about this issue from black voters as well and from sort of the young organizers in this state. So yes, I do think that Harris has an opportunity here. This is what I hear from folks within the arab american community, they say that she's not viewed as being as toxic, perhaps as President Biden is, within their community.

I spoke with Rua Roman about this. She's a Georgia state legislator, a palestinian American.

Rua Roman
I can tell you right now that if I had, for example, tried to go to a mosque or arab community event and urge them to vote for Joe Biden, I would never be invited back. The anger was so deep and the hurt was so deep, even for me. I tell people that, and I think people would at least be open to hearing from her and to let her make her case.

Speaker B
And I should say part of the reason we're talking about this, and this is in the news, is because Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to Congress this week and he meets with Biden, Harris and Trump during his visit. I think it's notable, sue, that Vice President Harris did not attend that speech in Congress.

Speaker D
No. And she certainly wasn't alone in that regard. Democrats almost had a hard time finding someone to preside over that address. Patty Murray, who's a Washington senator, who's the Senate pro tem, who usually would preside over a joint address, said, thanks, but no thanks. I'm not going to be there. Former Speaker Nancy Pelosi did not attend. I mean, scores of Democrats didn't show up for this. And I think that it's an important part of the politics here is that I think that there is an opposition to the Netanyahu government, certainly within the Democratic Party. And this goes back many years. This is not a new thing. And so I think that one of the things that Kamala Harris has to do, which other Democrats are trying to do, is walk this line in which they're trying to send a very pro Israel message about the US Israel alliance and that the US will continue to fight for the existence of the state of Israel. But they are not happy with the Netanyahu government and they are not happy with the current state of talks to get hostages released that includes american citizens. So what I think is interesting to me about Kamala Harris, and Asma knows this far better than me, but she is kind of a blank slate in this because she doesn't come to this. None of her political offices have come by way of foreign policy. This isn't an arena in which I think of her as someone who has much depth of experience and quite frankly, even as someone who covers politics and politicians, I'm not entirely sure how she shaped her foreign policy worldview.

So a lot of people are looking at her to see how she articulates this, especially as she shifts into candidate mode. Like, of course, she shared all of Biden's positions when she was his vice president. That's what the vice president does. Does she attempt to draw any distinctions from him in that arena? Is one of the big questions that we're now watching going into the election.

Speaker C
Yeah. And I don't know that we can anticipate seeing a whole lot of distinctions between now and election day because, as you say, sue, shes trying to speak to different constituencies of the Democratic Party. At the same time, she, of course, wants to win back some of the political left that was disenchanted with how President Biden had handled this conflict. At the same time, she also wants to ensure that she retains support from some of the strong supporters of Israel in the Democratic Party. So, you know, I do wonder to what degree it behooves her politically to stake a real firm position in the ground.

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Speaker B
And we're back. What's interesting about this moment, as sue mentioned, is that folks are seeing Harris as sort of a blank slate right now. They're projecting a lot onto her, and one of those things that could be projected onto her is the sort of anger that she might be inheriting for Biden, you know, some culpability that voters feel on this issue.

Asma, what do you make of how Harris is sort of like, navigating this?

Speaker C
I mean, look, she has been the vice president. And so by definition, her job is to support and uphold the policies of the president. That's what the job is. And so I think now, as she is running for office, you hear her on the stump. And I would say it's not just, just about whether we're talking about foreign policy. You hear this on a whole range of things. She doesn't really articulate a clear policy vision that's distinct from what we've seen from the Biden administration to date. She talks about reproductive rights. She talks about trying to lift up the middle class. These are all themes that we've seen from Joe Biden over these last several years.

I will say. I do think that there might be distinctions, again, in tone and style and emphasis. She is somebody who has really championed reproductive rights, and you can imagine she will lean heavily into that. But largely, you know, she didn't go through a primary cycle, so she did not have to stake out clear positions on policy to differentiate herself within the Democratic Party.

Speaker D
One of the things that Kamala Harris benefits from right now is that I do think a significant chunk of the electorate, and our poll back this up this week in terms of the number of undecideds growing as she became the candidate, is that she does have a window of time in which they're giving her the benefit of the doubt. They're listening to what she has to say and what is different before that. And I talked to so many campaign strategists and pollsters said this in a race that was Donald Trump versus Joe Biden, they were so well defined, the country's mind was so made up that people had actually sort of tuned out this election because there was nothing they could say that would make people change their minds. And for so many Americans, like, she is kind of a blank slate, like, they might know who she is, but they don't have fully formed and strongly felt opinions for her outside of obviously partisan voters think that she has a window of opportunity to appeal to them. Now, ultimately, she may not be that successful at it, right? Like, this could not ultimately play to her advantage, but she has what neither of those men had is a certain chunk of the electorate willing to sit and listen to her positions on things. And that right now is a huge advantage. It could become a disadvantage if at the end of that, these voters are like, no, no, no, no, she's too liberal. She's too this, which is exactly what Republicans are trying to do right now, is paint her as someone who is to the left of Joe Biden, who would be, you know, in their words, quote, unquote, more of a socialist style Democrat.

And she's going to have to both define herself and deflect that attack.

Speaker B
So is it realistic that Vice President Harris can run out the clock on this? Presumably the conflict could be resolved by the time the election happens, which I'm assuming is what Vice President Harris is probably hoping for.

Speaker C
Well, the Biden administration is very eager to land this ceasefire deal that would lead to the end of the war in Gaza. And we were told by a senior administration official yesterday that they're in the closing phase of this deal. I mean, there are gaps that still remain, and I feel like we've heard iterations of that language before, that they're sort of within the ten yard line of this deal, and then the deal has not yet materialized. So, you know, it's possible she could try to refrain from saying very much about this conflict over the next several months. But I think there's two reasons why that will be very difficult. And I would say that because she will be pushed both on the right and the left to comment on this. And I think a case in point was a statement that she issued earlier today about some of the protests against israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. She said yesterday that at Union Station in Washington, DC, there were, quote, despicable acts by unpatriotic protesters. And she specifically condemned the burning of the american flag and what she described as pro Hamas graffiti and rhetoric. And, you know, that is a statement that was one issued by her and not the president, which I think is notable and speaks to the fact that she does have to engage on this issue and she will be politically forced to do so. But secondly, I will say it struck me as a very forceful condemnation that was a bit, again, different in tone than what she has said before. She told the Nation magazine in an interview earlier that young people protesting the war were, quote, showing exactly what the human emotion should be as a response to Gaza.

Here again, in her statement today, she acknowledged that people have the right to peacefully protest, but was very clear that there's no place for hate violence, antisemitism in the nation.

Speaker D
It also makes sense because Kamala Harris, the vice presidential candidate, was sort of tapped to try to reach out to the progressives and the base and keep people in the tent. And Kamala Harris, the presidential candidate, has to appeal to the middle and to broader american ideals. And it's really not that hard to condemn people trashing and, you know, spray painting Hamas across american landmarks. I mean, that's a pretty typical american presidential statement.

I think those are the subtleties in which you see her sort of switch from being a supporter of Biden to the one trying to replace him.

Speaker C
I think the other place where she will be pushed on this issue is also from Republicans. You know, earlier, sue, you mentioned she did not preside over this joint address in Congress that Netanyahu delivered yesterday. It's something that vice presidents typically do. Her team cited a scheduling conflict, but I saw that House Speaker Mike Johnson told Jewish Insider that it was a, quote, terrible symbolic gesture and suggested she would pay a price for it politically. And I'd imagine Republicans will be fairly united in trying to criticize her and paint her as being not as pro Israel as they are.

Speaker B
Yeah. All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. I'm Ashley Lopez. I cover voting.

Speaker C
I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House.

Speaker D
And I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics.

Speaker B
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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