What To Know About Tim Walz's 24-Year Military Career

This episode delves into the military career of Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, focusing on the intricacies and controversies surrounding his 24 years in the National Guard.

1. Tim Walz served 24 years in the National Guard but never saw combat, serving instead in a support capacity during Operation Enduring Freedom.
2. Controversy has arisen from Walz's past statements about his service, leading to accusations of misrepresentation.
3. His military service and how it is portrayed has become a focal point in his political campaign, reflecting broader political strategies.
4. The episode draws comparisons to historical political tactics, notably "swift boating."
5. There's a significant discussion on how military service is used and viewed in political campaigns.

1: Introduction and Background

Hosts introduce the topic of Tim Walz's military career and its current political relevance. Tamara Keith: "Today on the pod, we discuss Tim Walz's military record and what it means for the campaign."

2: Service Details and Controversies

A deep dive into the specifics of Walz's service, the controversy over his statements, and the political fallout. Quill Lawrence: "It's not that Walz has a history of misrepresenting his military service, but there are definitely some instances where he, by omission or in this one case, by saying weapon I carried in war, instead of saying maybe in wartime, has tripped him up."

3: Political Implications

Discussion on how Walz’s military record is being politically leveraged and its comparison to past political attacks. Ron Elving: "Swift boated became a verb. It is like a political attack that goes directly at your strength."

1. Verify political claims: Always look for credible sources when political figures discuss their backgrounds.
2. Understand political tactics: Recognize strategies like "swift boating" to critically evaluate political discourse.
3. Respect for service: Value all forms of military service, regardless of combat experience.
4. Be aware of political narratives: Understand how military service is used in political campaigns to sway voters.
5. Encourage transparency: Advocate for clear and honest communication from political figures about their past.

In 2018, Tim Walz said he carried weaponry "in war" when pushing for gun control, despite never serving in combat. He also said he chose to retire from the military after 24 years, shortly before his unit deployed to Iraq, in order to focus on his run for Congress.

This episode: senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, veterans correspondent Quil Lawrence, and senior political editor and correspondent Ron Elving.

The podcast is produced by Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our intern is Bria Suggs. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.

People

Tim Walz, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, John Kerry, John McCain

Content Warnings:

None

Progressive
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Hi, I'm Mitch.

Gary
Hi, I'm Gary. And I'm Mason. And we're currently standing in front of a waterfall at Shenandoah National park. This podcast was recorded at 12:40 p.m. on Monday, August 12.

Progressive
Things may have changed by the time.

Gary
You hear this, but we may still be in this park. Enjoy the show.

Are they implying they might get lost in the beautiful Shenandoah forest?

Ron Elving
Easily done.

Gary
Yes.

Hey there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

Quill Lawrence
I'm Quill Lawrence. I cover veterans of the VA. And.

Ron Elving
I'm Ron Elving, editor, correspondent.

Gary
Today on the pod, Minnesota governor Tim Walls served 24 years in the National Guard. Now he's vice President Harris's running mate, and his military record quickly came under political attack. We are going to sort through the facts and also what it means for the campaign. And quill, let's start with you.

When he did retire from the National Guard, Walls was quite senior, right?

Quill Lawrence
He had made it to command sergeant major. He did 24 years in the guard, including a reenlistment after 911. But he never went to war. He served in support of Operation enduring Freedom. So he went to Europe, to Italy, supporting troops that had probably been deployed to Afghanistan. JD Vance spent six months uneventfully on a base in Iraq. Also didn't see combat. He was a military journalist. Neither of these men are claiming to be war heroes. But then last week, some video from 2018 surfaced where Walz was actually talking about gun control.

Progressive
But we can do background checks. We can do CDC research. We can make sure we don't have reciprocal carry among states, and we can make sure that those weapons of war that I carried in war is the only place where those weapons were out.

Gary
So that definitely sounds like he said that I carried in war, but he did not go to war.

Quill Lawrence
Exactly. It's one preposition, but the campaign put this out and Vance pounced on it and even accused Walz of stolen valor, which is a very serious allegation with a legal definition that this comes nowhere near meeting.

And since then, we've just seen a lot of people taking a fine tooth comb to Walz's public statements and finding spots, for example, where someone misidentified him as having been to Afghanistan and he didn't correct them. Or he was speaking on C SPAN. And the crawl beneath his speaking says he's an Afghanistan vet and he didn't correct them. Now, as recently as last month, before he was even picked, he was on CNN with Jake Tapper. And Tapper said, you served in Afghanistan and he did correct him. It's not that Walz has a history of misrepresenting his military service, but there are definitely some instances where he, by omission or in this one case, by saying weapon I carried in war, instead of saying maybe in wartime, has tripped him up.

Gary
And we should say that the Harris campaign on Friday released a statement saying that walls misspoke, that. He's not claiming that.

Quill Lawrence
Yes, exactly. They've said that. But it does seem like this issue is sticking around. There are several other points of interest that people are starting to point out there's some confusion about walls is rank. When he retired, he was a command sergeant major, which is a very high rank as a non commissioned officer. But because he hadn't filled out some academic requirements, when he did retire, he was administratively changed back down to master sergeant. This was not a punitive demotion. But the Harris campaign has also changed some language on their website to say he's not a retired command sergeant major, although it's true to say he did serve as a command sergeant major.

Gary
Ron, in the week long rollout of Tim Walls as Kamala Harris running mate, this is the one thing that has sort of stuck where the conversation has lingered. Part of what's going on here is that there is a person who runs the Trump campaign who has had pretty significant success with a similar sort of attack in the past.

Ron Elving
That's right. We're talking about Chris Lacivita. Back in 2004, Chris Lacaveda was the man behind a campaign called the Swift boat veterans for Truth to question the military record of John Kerry. And John Kerry was a decorated veteran of the navy who had three Purple Hearts and two other commendations and was running largely as a war hero, even though he had far greater notice back in that erade as an antiwar activist, a military, a former military person who was turned against the Vietnam War. That's when he really got his first national attention, testifying before Congress in 1971.

Gary
But Swift boated became a verb.

It is like a political attack that goes directly at your strength has become. That is a phrase in politics.

Ron Elving
Yes. It's part of the dictionary now. And it refers to a spurious attack that nonetheless undercuts some part of a particular candidate's appeal.

Gary
We're going to take a quick break, and when we get back, more about Tim Walls military record and what it means for the campaign support for NPR.

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Gary
And we're back. And quill, I want to talk through with you one more area of Tim Walz's resume that is coming under some attack or questioning, and that is when he decided to retire. It was during the Iraq war.

Can you put it into context for us and what the charges and what else was going on?

Quill Lawrence
Yeah, so Tim Walz had been back from his deployment to Europe. He had been talking with people about running for Congress at the time. And he retired two months before the first notice that his unit was likely to be deployed to Iraq. It was ten months before they actually went to Iraq, so there was plenty of time to replace him. This is the really important charge because people are saying that he knew Iraq was coming and then he stepped aside and didn't go. So some people have been using words like abandonment or something like desertion, which again, has a legal definition that this is nowhere near. But the questions around this are sticking around because people who went in his unit to Iraq, which turned out to be a very grueling deployment south of Baghdad. And there are people from that unit who are willing to come out and say walls should have stuck around.

Now, that charge has been around in every race that Walz has ever run, including his last race in 2022. But basically, it's clear that Walz had an interest in running for Congress, that he had put in his papers for retirement before the official noticed that his unit was going to Iraq. But it's clear from contemporary conversations he had with people at the time that it was in the air. They pretty much knew they were going to Iraq. The question really is whether Walz had a right after 24 years in the guard and a reenlistment after 911, whether him deciding not to go to Iraq at that time was acceptable, as some members of his national Guard unit have said, or whether this is somehow something people can criticize.

And certainly there are plenty of people who are on social media right now who are taking him to task for it.

Gary
Yeah. So. And social media may not entirely be real life. I'm curious what you are hearing from veterans, veterans groups. You've been reporting on the story for several days now. What has bubbled up?

Quill Lawrence
Yeah, I mean, it seems really to depend on where you are politically. I've seen a very few independents in the veteran space saying, well, I wasn't decided, and now this is going to sway me. I mean, how many undecided people are there left in this country at this point?

But if military service is your issue, there are others pointing out that JD Vance served in the Marines. But the top of that ticket, former President Trump, got three deferments and avoided going to Vietnam.

So there are people weighing in on either side. Politically, veterans groups are not weighing in. Mostly, I think, out of a maybe discussed that this issue of service is getting politicized. They will say that any kind of service should be respected and not something that gets dragged through the mud around campaign time.

Gary
Well, and, Ron, at this point in our country, military service is so rare. Such a small portion of the american population volunteers to serve the country, and yet this is becoming this sort of political fight.

Ron Elving
This is not something that really came bubbling up from members of the Minnesota National Guard particularly. This is something that, as we said earlier, has become actually a verb in the political lexicon. Swift boating. Look for something that you can make a fuss about, and even if it's utterly debunked, it's out there and it changes the conversation. So it's a tactic that's proven to.

Gary
Be useful and while we are talking about the candidates in this race, quill, as you mentioned, former President Trump got several deferments and didn't serve. He's also known for openly denigrating service members, saying that he prefers people who weren't captured or they're sort of a.

Quill Lawrence
Long line assaulting a war hero like John McCain or reportedly telling his chief of staff, John Kelly that these people were losers and suckers for having gone to war.

Again, if the military is your issue, it's hard to see how you could criticize walls but not criticize former President Trump. And yet, lo and behold, people are certainly doing just that.

Gary
One thing that I will note is that early in walls rollout as the running mate, Harris and the campaign were playing up his military service, his time in the National Guard, those 24 years, by the end of the week, she didn't even mention it in one of her speeches in talking about walls. And really the campaign is leaning in on Tim Walls, the teacher and the coach. And really, like now they've got signs that say coach.

And it's not clear to me that they were ever planning to run on him as sarge. Yeah.

Ron, do you have a sense of whether any of this matters in this race or could matter in the end?

Ron Elving
We have the example of 2004, when John Kerry's momentum certainly was damaged by the swift boating. And even though the facts came out and even though it didn't look like it was that big a deal in the long run, it stuck around and it changed the dynamic in the month of August and going into September, going into the first debate, that really mattered.

That was a very close election. 2004 pretty much came down to Ohio. Ohio was not a walk away for either candidate. So it can matter in a close race. And you never know really what changed the chemistry in the way that the candidates related to each other and how people were relating to them. But I think it is a well established political science fact that in the end, people vote for the top of the ticket one way or the other.

Gary
All right, we'll leave it there for today. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

Quill Lawrence
I'm Quail Lawrence. I cover veterans in the VA. And.

Ron Elving
I'm Ron Ulman, editor, correspondent.

Gary
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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Talks like a man, is she a man?

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