Weekly Roundup: Democracy and the Courts

This episode explores the resilience of democratic institutions in the face of political trials and judicial criticisms, particularly focusing on recent events involving Donald Trump and the U.S. judicial system.

1. Trump's conviction has intensified political divisions, with Republicans quickly labeling the trial a sham.
2. The judicial system’s integrity is under scrutiny as political figures openly challenge court rulings.
3. Media narratives play a significant role in shaping public perception of judicial outcomes.
4. There is a growing public concern about the politicization of judicial processes.
5. The episode underscores the importance of upcoming elections in influencing the future of U.S. democracy.

1: Trump’s Conviction

The episode opens with a focus on Trump's recent conviction, discussing the immediate political and public reactions. Hosts provide insights from outside Trump Tower where the former president remains defiant.

• Domenico Montanaro: "These attacks against the judicial system have been par for the course for a lot of Republicans at this point."

2: Media and Public Perception

Exploration of how media outlets frame Trump's conviction and its impact on public opinion, highlighting the polarization in media portrayals.

• Deepa Shivaram: "It's tough. We're gonna have to see how media coverage influences public perception."

3: Biden's Stance

Discussion on President Biden’s restrained response to the conviction, analyzing the strategic silence from the White House.

• Deepa Shivaram: "This isn’t a process that they’re involved in, right. Like they are being accused of making it political."

4: Judicial Scrutiny

The hosts examine broader issues of accountability and public trust in the judiciary, sparked by controversies surrounding Supreme Court justices.

• Sari: "You know, the Supreme Court has really resisted any kind of oversight from Congress or anyone else."

5: Electoral Implications

Closing remarks on the episode consider the potential electoral repercussions of Trump’s legal troubles and the judicial debates shaping the campaign trails.

• Domenico Montanaro: "I think this is a moment in American politics, a moment in American history."

• Stay informed on judicial processes and rulings to better understand their impact on democracy.
• Engage in community discussions to foster a broader understanding of political accountability.
• Support transparency and accountability initiatives to ensure the integrity of democratic institutions.
• Educate others about the importance of impartiality in the judiciary to help combat misinformation.
• Participate in or organize voter education campaigns to highlight the importance of judicial issues in electoral contexts.

Donald Trump, convicted yesterday of 34 felonies, held an event this morning where he continued his attacks on the judge who oversaw his case and the legal system as a whole. His allegations of a "rigged" process and politically-motivated judiciary have been echoed by Republican lawmakers of all stripes, in a major erosion of democratic norms.

And Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito is refusing to recuse himself from any cases after New York Times reporting revealed that flags associated with election denial and the Christian nationalist movement flew outside of his residences.

This episode: White House correspondent Deepa Shivaram, political reporter Ximena Bustillo, senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, and national justice correspondent Carrie Johnson.

The podcast is produced by Jeongyoon Han, Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our intern is Bria Suggs. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.

People

Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Domenico Montanaro, Deepa Shivaram, Jimena Bustio, Sari

Content Warnings:

None

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Domenico Montanaro
Hi, this is rich.

Sari
This is Sari.

Domenico Montanaro
And we are in Denver City park celebrating our fourth wedding anniversary in the same cluster of trees where we got married at the beginning of the pandemic.

This podcast was recorded at 11:50 a.m.

Deepa Shivaram
On Friday, May 31, 2024.

Domenico Montanaro
Things may have changed by the time you hear it. Enjoy the show. Enjoy the show.

Sari
Enjoy the show.

Deepa Shivaram
That was so cute.

Domenico Montanaro
I actually feel calmer, and I didn't think that that was possible after this week. So thank you for that.

Deepa Shivaram
That was lovely. Yes. Hey, there. It's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Deepa Shiveram. I cover the White House.

Jimena Bustio
I'm Jimena Bustio. And I cover politics.

Domenico Montanaro
And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor.

Deepa Shivaram
And course, today on the roundup, how resilient are our democratic institutions? Big question, but let's start here. Donald Trump is now a convicted felon and spent this morning continuing his attacks on the judicial system.

Domenico Montanaro
So we're going to be appealing this scam.

We're going to be appealing it on many different things. He wouldn't allow us to have witnesses. He wouldn't allow us to talk. He wouldn't allow us to do anything. The judge was a tyrant.

Deepa Shivaram
Okay there, Jimena, you are in New York outside Trump Tower, I believe, where Trump gave his remarks. What was the scene like this morning?

Jimena Bustio
So this morning, it all started pretty calm, and there weren't a lot of people gathered outside yet. Obviously, that's not the case right now. You can probably hear a lot of talking, people walking around. Different crowds have gathered outside of Trump Tower where Trump gave his speech inside to a crew of tv reporters, print reporters, us, of course, several reporters were gathered, and he reiterated a lot of the same claims that he has been telling us outside the courtroom down in downtown Manhattan, which is that he believes that the judge is biased. He believes that this is a political tool against him, all without evidence, of course. And, you know, he continues to rail against the entire process, the entire judicial.

Deepa Shivaram
System, and calling the judge a tyrant like we just heard in his remarks, Domenico, I mean, these attacks against the judicial system, the judge, as we heard Trump say, they've kind of been like par for the course for a lot of Republicans at this point. I mean, we've heard rhetoric like this from House Speaker Mike Johnson, Republican Senator Josh Hawley, Representative Matt Gaetz basically saying that this trial, the judicial system overall is a sham. Right. I mean, Josh Hawley was on Fox this morning saying that this was an assault on the Constitution. I mean, it's kind of worth noting how common now it is to kind of make these refrains.

Domenico Montanaro
Yeah, it's not surprising, but still, still kind of shocking, honestly. I mean, being able to consistently and quickly, immediately move to saying that this was a scam. You know, you have the speaker of the House saying it was a shameful day in America, Trumps allies and the cadre of republican officials who are trying out to be VP sort of unofficially, all saying the same thing, speaking from the same playbook.

And, you know, you wind up having this hyper partisanship mostly because of this conservative installation that we're seeing where they have an entire media echo chamber telling them this is all made up, this is just politics and stick to the playbook and stay on the team.

Deepa Shivaram
And then on the other side of the equation here, I mean, this isn't exactly something that the Biden White House or a lot of Democrats are sort of trying to fill the void with. Right. Like, you don't really see a lot of strong rhetoric coming out saying the opposite necessarily. And that has been interesting to watch.

Domenico Montanaro
Yeah. You know, nothing changes the fact that a jury of Trump's peers, twelve people unanimously convicted him. And no matter what probably happens in this election, there isn't probably enough time for a conviction, even if it's overturned, before Trump winds up being on the ballot in November. And he has convicted felon as part of his unofficial title. And, you know, that's definitely something Trump did not want, had been prepping for. That's why you see the sort of outrage on the right the way it is, because they know that this is a serious threat to him. On the other side, when you have President Biden, who has said basically nothing about this at this point, even his campaign has said, you know, what's really important here is voting in November, which is something, by the way, Trump agrees with saying that the real verdict, they're.

Deepa Shivaram
All saying the same thing.

Domenico Montanaro
Yeah, the real verdict is in November. But I'm curious to see how he winds up using this or not in some of these big tentpole events that we have coming up the rest of this year.

Deepa Shivaram
Yeah. And it's worth pointing out that there is a sense from this White House that, like, this is not a process that they're involved in. Right. Like they are being accused of making it political, that it's a political witch hunt. Of course, Biden has nothing to do with the decisions being made in that New York court. But it is notable, I think, that that hasn't really been their tendency to sort of jump back in and sort of use different rhetoric to counter it. Jimena, I mean, how much of this is going to be part of the campaign message for Trump and for Biden? I mean, when it comes to advertising, messaging, fundraising, I mean, how is this factoring in so far?

Jimena Bustio
Well, for Trump, it already is a part of the messaging, and it has been for a while. We have heard him throughout several campaign rallies and campaign stops talk about what he perceives to be this great injustice happening out in New York in this liberal city that is filled with all this crime, allegedly. And he's using that at every chance that he gets. But we also saw as soon as the conviction came down that his website is auto directing to a fundraising website where he is labeling himself a political prisoner and is asking people to donate to help him out.

The Trump campaign is already boasting, having raised millions of dollars through this website overnight. However, it is important to include the caveat that those numbers, that total, cannot be fully verified until we get the latest FEC filings.

Domenico Montanaro
You know, I think what's interesting here when it comes to President Biden is the title president, right? He's really having to walk these two worlds because he's both president and candidate Biden at the same time. And he's been very reluctant to show that he is going to be weighing in on this, to talk about Trump as a convicted felon, to talk about all of the legal woes that Trump has because he hasn't wanted to show himself to at all be influencing the Justice Department or to be influencing state prosecutors. But he's really going to have to make a decision here. We've only got five months to go.

Deepa Shivaram
Yeah, I will say one thing that will be really interesting to see is if he talks about it a little more openly in fundraising where he doesn't have the cameras on, you know, it's a different sort of scene. So will be watching for that.

Domenico Montanaro
And we have some big events coming up that are going to show us whether or not and how each of them frames this. Because June 27, less than a month from now, we have the first debate that they agreed to. Then you have both conventions over the summer, then finally the September 10 debate. So those are really going to be some big tent poll events to watch.

Deepa Shivaram
What does this really change at the end of the day? Like the folks, Domenico, who maybe were seeing coverage of this or knowing that Donald Trump was facing some kind of verdict, they maybe already thought that he was guilty or there are folks on their side who already thought, you know, he was innocent and that this was a political scheme. So really, with this decision coming out, I mean, does this actually change anyone's minds at the end of the day?

Domenico Montanaro
Yeah, it's tough. We're gonna have to see. I mean, I think this is a moment in american politics, a moment in american history. I think there were a lot of people who weren't paying that close attention to this trial who are gonna be starting to tune in to figure out what was Trump convicted of. And then they're going to go to their favorite news outlet for that. And if they're republican leaning, independent, for example, and they go to Fox News or conservative media, you know, Trump did nothing wrong and they're going to be more on board if they're going to maybe more mainstream outlets, they might have a different take on this. But already before going into this, the latest NPR PBS NewsHour Marist poll that came out this week found that only 17% of people said that they would be less likely to vote for Trump if he was found guilty. Some of those are partisans. It also less likely doesn't necessarily mean that's what their going to do. At the end of the day, I'm really looking at some of these voter groups that Biden is struggling with. Like younger voters, for example. They were among the highest to say that they could have their mind changed. One in five said that they would be less likely to vote for Trump if he was found guilty. One in five also said that they'd be more likely to vote for Trump if he was found not guilty. And only 54% of them said that they definitely have their minds made up. So can Biden use this to try to bring over some of the groups that he's been struggling with?

I think is an important thing to watch over the next few months.

Deepa Shivaram
Yeah, we'll have to keep an eye on that. All right, we're going to take a quick break. Jimena, great work on covering this trial. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jimena Bustio
Thank you.

Deepa Shivaram
And when we get back, investigative reporting exposes a lot more questions on behavior by Supreme Court justices.

Hello again. So after we taped this, we did get to hear from President Biden directly before making remarks about Israel's war in Gaza. He made a very brief statement about the verdict in New York.

Joe Biden
After careful deliberation, the jury reached a unanimous verdict.

They found Donald Trump guilty on all 34 felony counts.

Now he'll be given the opportunity, as he should, to appeal that decision just like everyone else has that opportunity.

That's how the american system of justice works.

And it's reckless, it's dangerous, it's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict.

Deepa Shivaram
Biden didn't take any questions. All right. We'll be back in a moment.

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Domenico Montanaro
When the economic news gets to be.

Sari
A bit much, listen to the indicator from planet money. We're here for you, like your friends trying to figure out all the most confusing parts, one story, one idea every day, all in ten minutes or less.

Domenico Montanaro
The indicator from planet money, your friendly.

Sari
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Domenico Montanaro
Not when you have the indicator bug eyes in your ears. In under ten minutes. Every day, we simplify the complicated news.

Sari
Like how does inflation drop? What the heck is this spac? Why are trendy little high fiber sodas suddenly dominating store shelves?

Domenico Montanaro
And more, listen to the indicator from planet money and NPR. Instead of scrolling mindlessly, engage mindfully with the NPR app. With a mix of on demand news stories from this station and your favorite podcast, you can relax without shutting off your brain. Download the NPR app today.

Deepa Shivaram
And we're back with Carrie Johnson. Hey, Carrie.

Sari
Hey there.

Deepa Shivaram
Ok, so the theme for today's roundup is the way public figures can and can't be held accountable. Right. And just to lay out what's happening here, the New York Times reported that two flags, one associated with Trump's election denial movement and another associated with the christian nationalist movement, were flown outside of homes connected to Supreme Court Justice Justice Samuel Alito. Alito says that the election denial flag, which is basically the american flag flown upside down, was raised up by his wife in response to a dispute with neighbors and isn't related to the stop the steal movement. KerrY given the context of all this, though, it's still kind of concerning. Right.

Sari
Well, a lot of Democrats in Congress and a lot of people in the legal community have raised questions about this, specifically about whether Justice Alito should recuse himself, disqualify himself from hearing or deciding at this .2 cases related to January 6, 2021, one involving former President Trump, and whether he enjoys some form of immunity for his actions on and around that day. And a second case involving a January 6 rioter who argues the Justice Department has misused a statute against him.

Depending on how the Supreme Court rules in that case, it could imperil convictions of hundreds of other rioters on that day.

Deepa Shivaram
Yeah. And, I mean, Alito is refusing to recuse himself from any cases over this. And Democrats have responded. Right. We did see some movement about that in the Senate, what was going on there.

Sari
Yeah. Several senators, including Dick Durbin, Democrat from Illinois, chairman of the Judiciary committee, and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode island, had actually written John Roberts, the chief justice of the United States, asking about all of these issues. And this week, Justice Alito responded. Not the chief justice. Justice Alito sent a letter saying he's not gonna step aside from deciding these cases. He said he had nothing whatsoever to do with the flying of the upside down flag. He said his wife makes her own decisions and he respects her right to do that. He also said, my wife is fond of flying flags. I am not. She was solely responsible. He says that nothing in this whole controversy implicates him having to disqualify himself. And so he's just not, and this.

Deepa Shivaram
Is just pretty unusual, all of this to begin with. But, like, for a supreme court justice to kind of go out on his own, send this letter, like, this is not something we normally deal with.

Sari
It is not something that normally happens. Although I will point out that Justice Alito in the past has reached out to reporters at Fox News and has penned op eds in the Wall Street Journal amidst criticism of him by investigative outlets like ProPublica and others. So he does not exercise his right to remain silent in the face of these controversies. He seems to want to make his own case. Whether it's persuaded people who disagree with him, hard to say at this point.

Domenico Montanaro
You know, the thing is, this is DC, right? Everyone's spouses have jobs. Sometimes they're high profile jobs. Sometimes those lives intersect. This is a flag at your home, right? And you're saying that I couldn't really tell her to take it down. She's half homeowner. So, you know, what can I do, really? Shrug. Emoji I mean, I know that conservatives are buying this, but it's hard for me to believe that a lot of people, you know, are saying that that makes a lot of sense to them.

Sari
You know, one thing that's interesting about this whole debate is that a law professor, Steve Vladic, formerly of the University of Texas, about to join Georgetown, has argued that we're thinking about it all wrong, that we shouldn't be talking about recusal here. We should be talking about good behavior and how things look to reasonable people. And how justices respond to public controversy is clearly in the heartland of how we should evaluate them. And by that standard, he seems to argue that Justice Alito is not doing a very good job and that there are plenty of reasons to question why he's hearing these cases and whether he's truly impartial about them.

Deepa Shivaram
The weird thing, I guess, about these interesting times that we live in where we are having these conversations, I mean, there's not exactly like a system to necessarily hold these justices accountable. Or maybe there is, and it's not really been used before. Like, how do we deal with this?

Sari
You know, the Supreme Court has really resisted any kind of oversight from Congress or anyone else. In fact, Chief Justice John Roberts has been out there saying, including earlier this week, that these are matters of judicial independence and separation of powers. He refused to even meet with democratic lawmakers because he basically told them it would be a really bad look. And so the justices have adopted some kind of ethics code for themselves. There's no enforcement mechanism. And it's going to be very, very hard for Democrats in Congress or even litigants who have cases before the Supreme Court to make these justices do anything they do not want to do because they're in charge of whether they want to recuse or not individually.

Domenico Montanaro
You know, the Supreme Court is like the last stop in american democracy in a lot of ways, right? They settle the disagreements on the biggest issues that we have in this country. And public perception is really, really important. Trust in the Supreme Court is really important. And that's been on the decline in recent years, not just since the Dobbs ruling that overturned Roe, but before that, after Ruth Bader Ginsburg died and Amy Coney Barrett was appointed to take her place. And Democrats were upset because Mitch McConnell, republican leader, had stopped Merrick Garland from being appointed, that when Barack Obama tried to appoint him. So this goes back a ways even before that, because Republicans will say that this goes back to the eighties and appointments that Democrats blocked back then. So there's been a lot of really partisan feelings on this. But it hadn't bled over necessarily into the public. The public had trusted the Supreme Court, the FBI, a lot of other pillar institutions in a democracy, and now it has bled over into the public where they're sort of looking at the Supreme Court in a way like it's another political branch.

Deepa Shivaram
Well, yeah, and because it is now all politicized folks are thinking of the Supreme Court as a political entity, which it never was supposed to be a political entity in theory.

He's kind of coming up on the campaign trail a little bit. Domenico, how is that sort of factoring in for both Biden and Trump?

Domenico Montanaro
Well, I mean, I go, when I think about the campaign trail and I think about judges, I often tell people that people vote on things like the economy, which a president has very little control over, and they don't vote on things like judges and foreign policy, which a president has much more control over. It's hard to argue that there wouldn't be a very different Supreme Court today had Hillary Clinton won. And, but certainly we saw in the 2020 election Democrats saying they wanted to pack the Supreme Court, they wanted to expand the court, to be able to add justices so that they could water down the strength of conservatives on the court. It is a huge issue and it should probably be a voting issue.

Sari
You know, Deepa, President Biden famously was in charge of the Senate Judiciary Committee for many years.

Some people on the left, to the left of Biden for sure have been kind of critical of the White House and Biden himself for not taking on the Supreme Court more often. What's coming out of the White House.

Deepa Shivaram
These days, it's pretty silent overall. This is not something, especially with this whole upside down flag Alito situation.

You know, this is not a White House that really wants to weigh in. They sort of like to keep those boundaries in place, if you will. But I will say one place where, like Biden and Harris, too, they don't hesitate to bring up the Supreme Court is on reproductive rights. Like they talk about it in regards to Dobbs all the time. And that I feel like, is their campaign kind of connector with voters where they say, you're angry about all these abortion restrictions coming up all over the country. Well, look who put those justices on the court. This is Donald Trump. So that's their kind of connector to bring the court back into the picture. But you're right, we don't really see Biden weighing in.

Sari
To my mind, this issue is really underappreciated on the campaign trail. You know, Justice Alito is 74. Justice Clarence Thomas is 75 years old. Justice Sonia Sotomayor is 69 years old. The next president of the United States could have the opportunity, depending on the decisions of these justices and their health, to appoint two or three more justices. And that would be, that would be an enormously consequential move for either party.

Deepa Shivaram
I'm really shocked that hasn't come up more in this campaign season so far. But again, we still have five months to go. All right, we're gonna leave it there. And when we get back, it's time for can't let it go.

Domenico Montanaro
This is Sam Brigger, longtime fresh air producer and sometime interviewer. In a special extended podcast episode, I talk with Maggie Rogers about nostalgia, her new album, and her decision to go to Harvard Divinity School.

Sari
I think at its core, music has always been the most sacred and most spiritual thing that I've ever been a part of.

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Deepa Shivaram
And we're back. And now it's time for can't let it go. That's the part of the show where we talk about the things that we just cannot stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. Domenico, kick it off for us.

Domenico Montanaro
So what I can't let go of is the spelling bee, which took place in the DC area. I'm always amazed with these kids who wind up doing this, because I can't. The winner was Bruhat soma. And I just want you to kind of listen a little bit to the final bit of the round here where he had to decide how to spell some of these words, which I would just, you know, pull myself off the stage. Ramonur.

Deepa Shivaram
R a m o n e u r. Apisia pieces. Ap o s I o p e.

Domenico Montanaro
S I S a b s e I l. Passology.

What?

Deepa Shivaram
Wait, is this like a times?

Domenico Montanaro
Yeah, I guess so. Lightning round. I didn't know they do lightning round in this sweating.

It's very terrifying. My God. It's like a bad dream. You know, words that aren't words actually crazy.

Deepa Shivaram
Okay, wait, so do you have the definition of what abseil means?

Domenico Montanaro
Luckily.

Deepa Shivaram
Oh, that's his winning word.

Domenico Montanaro
Absail was the winning word. So I want you guys to try to spell it. What do you think? He already did?

Sari
I think he said there was an e in there. But how did I get in there?

Domenico Montanaro
Because it's not about sailing, apparently, it's about descending. It's descent and mountaineering by means of a rope looped over a projection above. I have to tell you.

Sari
Oh, sure.

Domenico Montanaro
I don't even think that five times mountain climbers use absail. I'm going to upsail now.

I don't think so.

Deepa Shivaram
Oh, and then there was a tiebreaker.

Sari
That was the tiebreaker. I think the lightning round was the tiebreaker.

Deepa Shivaram
Oh, my gosh.

Domenico Montanaro
Yep.

Deepa Shivaram
Okay. Also, let's just take a beat and point out that this is a twelve year old kid.

Domenico Montanaro
Yeah, I heard a story, I think, on NPR some years ago about how they, like, study the dictionary, read it over and over again.

Sari
You got to know the etymology to make sure that's true.

Domenico Montanaro
Greek, Latin, German, French.

Deepa Shivaram
Well, congrats to Bruhat. That's pretty amazing. Carrie, take it away.

Sari
My can't let it go is that alcohol is no longer going to be served in the stands of the French Open, the famous tennis tournament after multiple episodes where players complained about unruly behavior. The worst, to my mind was that a player complained that somebody in the stands spit out chewed gum at the player, which just. No.

Deepa Shivaram
Oh, that's unhinged.

Sari
Disgusting. And then there were other complaints about loud comments and other stuff. So no more booze for you in the stands at this.

Deepa Shivaram
Dang it. That's the only reason I was trying to go to the French Open. But also, does this just mean people are sneaking in little flasks as they enter? I kind of love the potential for nonsense to happen.

Sari
You're taking me back to college days and I'm going to take the fifth.

Deepa, what about you?

Deepa Shivaram
Okay, so I have kind of a funny. Can't let it go. But I feel like it really works for today, specifically because it is the last day of Aapi Heritage month. And my thing that I can't let go of is that earlier this week, our lovely colleague Asma Khalid just came up to me in our office and was just like, hey, do you want this mango from Pakistan? And obviously, you would never say no to a question like that. And Asma had the incredible opportunity to obtain a lot of mangoes from Pakistan, which, if you guys don't know, mangoes, mangoes there are just. They hit different, they are made different. The fibers are different. It's sweeter. It's just better all around, and you can't find them here. So it is a genuine treat to have had just one tiny little mango this week absolutely made my day. I have so many memories of cutting mangoes in our kitchen with my family. And the way you kind of score the mango and eat it with a spoon and you suck on the seed and there's just, like, fibers in your teeth and juice running down your arms. Like, it is just the epitome of summer to me. And just such a fun way to feel really connected with your culture and your homeland and your family and things like that. So all of that from a tiny little fruit that I got today. It was very kind of her to share, and that is what I can't let go of.

Sari
That sounds so amazing. But central question, did she share her source with you? Are you going to get your own secret?

Deepa Shivaram
What I heard is that involved a guy with a trunk full of mangoes potentially outside the airport. I don't know any details.

Domenico Montanaro
This mango fell off a truck.

Deepa Shivaram
Yeah.

Sari
Amazing.

Deepa Shivaram
I need to do some digging, some potential investigative journalism to learn more. I will let you know. Or maybe I won't. And I'll just keep them all for myself.

Sari
Okay, too.

Deepa Shivaram
All right, we're gonna leave it there for today. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Jung Yoon, Han, Kacey Morell, and Kelly Weissinger. Special thanks to Kelsey Snell and Lexi Schapitl. I'm Deepa Shiveram. I cover the White House.

Domenico Montanaro
I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

Sari
And I'm Carrie Johnson. I cover the Justice Department.

Deepa Shivaram
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

I
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considerthisnewsletter these days it can feel like.

Deepa Shivaram
The news is fighting for your attention wherever you turn. But staying informed shouldnt be a battle. Everything you need to navigate the stories that matter to you is at your fingertips. The NPR app cuts through the noise, bringing you local, national and global coverage. No paywalls, no profits, no nonsense. Download the NPR app in your app store today, or you can go to npr.org app.