Is Project 2025 Trump's Plan For A 2nd Term? It's Complicated

This episode delves into the implications and details of "Project 2025," a plan associated with former President Donald Trump's potential agenda for a second term.

1. Project 2025 is a comprehensive plan reflecting conservative ideals, aiming to reshape federal governance and enhance executive power.
2. The project, while aligned with Trump's views, is not authored by him but by his affiliates, indicating strong ongoing influences if reelected.
3. Democratic opponents and some public figures have expressed concerns about the project's extremist tones and potential for inciting violence.
4. The episode highlights the strategic distancing by Trump from the more controversial aspects of the plan.
5. It underscores the political maneuvering around issues like abortion and immigration, key elements of the project.

1: Introduction to Project 2025

This chapter introduces the document and outlines its extensive proposals for a revamped government. Sarah McCammon: "What is Donald Trump's agenda for a second term?"

2: Analysis of Political Reactions

Discusses the varied responses from political figures and public regarding the revolutionary tone of Project 2025. Franco Ordonez: "This is not, quote, unquote, Trump's plan, but it is a plan for Trump."

3: The Role of Conservative Groups

Explores the involvement of various conservative groups in drafting Project 2025 and their influence on the political landscape. Domenico Montanaro: "It's a more Trumpian vision of America."

4: Public and Media Reactions

Covers the public and media reactions, highlighting the project’s viral spread and the controversy surrounding its objectives. Franco Ordonez: "Project 2025 proposes mass deportations and stricter rules on migrants."

1. Stay informed about political documents and plans that could affect governance.
2. Engage in public discourse to understand and debate significant political proposals.
3. Scrutinize the alignment of political proposals with personal and community values.
4. Participate in elections to have a say in the direction of national policies.
5. Encourage transparency and accountability in political campaigning and governance.

What is Donald Trump's plan for a second term? He's got ideas of his own, the Republican party has released a platform document — but the most comprehensive set of policy ideas have been put together in a document called Project 2025. Here's what it says.

This episode: national political correspondent Sarah McCammon, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.

The podcast is produced by Jeongyoon Han, Casey Morell and Kelli Wessinger. Our intern is Bria Suggs. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.

People

Donald Trump, Paul Dans, Kevin Roberts, Steve Bannon, Taraji P. Henson

Content Warnings:

None

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B
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Eastern time on Wednesday, July 10, 2024.

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All right. Hey, there. It's the NPR Politics podcast. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign.

E
I'm Frank Ordonez. I also cover the campaign.

D
And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

C
Today on the podcast, what is Donald Trump's agenda for a second term? It's a big question. And a group made up of former top officials from his administration has put together a 900 plus page document. You may have heard of it. It's called Project 2025, and it is full of proposals.

Then the Republican National Committee has a platform of its own. And there's what Trump himself has said. We're gonna try to untangle all of it. It's a big web of stuff. But, Franco, you've been reporting on all of this. And I wanna focus first on Project 2025.

What are some of the ideas in that document?

E
Yeah, certainly, as you pointed out, it is a 900 page pro Trump plan to essentially overhaul the american government and really to expand his presidential powers. Dozens, dozens of conservative groups got involved in this project, drafting all these policies, which really became kind of a wish list of conservative ideas that Trump could essentially pull from. And I do want to make clear that this is not, quote, unquote, Trumps plan, but it is a plan for Trump. And theres no mistaking that there is a lot of overlap with it. In many ways, it takes what Trump's biggest policy goals are and kind of shows a plan to execute them.

D
Wasn't that sort of the point of the drafting of this in the first place? I mean, you had a lot of Trump acolytes and Trump people who are close to him who drafted this. And it certainly is a more trumpian vision of America than you would have probably had if Paul Ryan had drafted this. The former House speaker or John Boehner, the former House speaker or Mitt Romney had drafted this.

E
No, I mean, when I spoke with Paul Dans, he's the project director for project 2025. I mean, he called Trump the embodiment of the project. And another thing that inspired it. On that note is the experience they had at the beginning of the 2016 administration. They just did not have a transition process in place. They didn't have a plan in place, and they really struggled to get the people involved. And there was a lot of infighting and just a lot of problems.

C
Now, the way this has been described, project 2025, by the head of the organization that helped craft it, the word he used is revolution. Tell me about that.

E
Yeah, I mean, there is no question at all that those involved I mentioned Dan's, have talked about this as a revolution. Dans actually told me he called it a clarion call for conservatives. But Kevin Roberts, he kind of took that even further. He is the president of the Heritage foundation, and he went on a podcast, the War Room, a conservative podcast that is usually hosted by Steve Bannon, who is another Trump former official who is now in prison. And Kevin Roberts went on the show and he said this, we are in.

D
The process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.

E
And those comments really set off a lot of people, including Democrats, who saw this as threatening, an underscore of violence, but also saw it kind of as an opportunity to kind of tie Trump to this and kind of like that he is a danger if reelected in.

C
A second term, remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. I mean, that certainly sounds threatening. Domenico, what have Democrats been saying about this? How have they responded?

D
Well, you know, this is the kind of thing that Democrats, many, were aware of previously, you know, in the past year when it started to gain some attention. But it's really only recently become gone sort of viral. I've seen these posts that have started to pop up about what Trump would do with some bullet points outlining what Project 2025 would do, and it got new attention and went viral at a BET awards event where Taraji P. Henson actually mentioned it.

F
Pay attention. It's not a secret. Look it up. They are attacking our most vulnerable citizens. The Project 2025 plan is not a game.

C
Look it up.

D
It's become sort of the thing that now is being held up on the left to say, if you want Trump back in office, here are the things he's going to do. Now. Trump, of course, is distancing himself somewhat from it, saying he doesn't have any idea who the people are, who's running this, which is not true, that he's, that some of the things he agrees with, some of the things he says are, quote, absolutely ridiculous. And I think that it's important to point out the things that are overlap here with Project 2025 versus the things that Trump himself has said, which are myriad. He said a lot of things that are highly controversial and a lot of things that do overlap.

E
Yeah, I mean, some of those things that overlap is, you know, Project 2025 proposes mass deportations of more than 11 million people who are in the country illegally and stricter rules on migrants. So does Trump and so does the RNC platform. Trump has talked about getting rid of the Department of Education, as does Project 2025. He's also talked about kind of withholding federal funds from so called sanctuary cities.

And Project 2025 kind of does that as well. What's interesting is, like, project 2025 in many ways takes some of Trump's biggest goals and kind of shows a plan to execute them.

C
Do we have a sense of how, I mean, I guess we can't. No sitting here now, but how receptive, to what degree Trump would be receptive if he's reelected to truly sort of absorbing this document?

D
Well, I don't know that Trump is necessarily gonna absorb the document 100%. This is why he's saying that he's trying to distance himself from it. But this'll provide a bit of a roadmap and some policy details that he didn't have in the first administration. I mean, remember, it was very chaotic, did a lot of the things he was promising to do. He's promising to do a lot of things again. And now you have an entire apparatus of people who know how to craft this kind of legislation and policy, and they're saying, hey, if you want to do it, we've got a plan for you.

C
Right. And part of this is what is training, recruiting, vetting staff?

E
Yeah, absolutely. This has been described as kind of like a linked in for conservatives. Another issue has been they just didn't have the political appointees ready for the beginning of the 2016 administration with this effort. They want to have thousands of conservatives ready on hand who can be kind of hired and picked, chosen from to man a new administration.

C
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C
And we are back. This is something that Trump has tried, as we mentioned, to distance himself from a little bit. But I think it is worth talking more about the connections between former President Trump and the people who are putting together project 2025.

Here's Trump campaign senior adviser Danielle Alvarez.

F
And so Democrats are desperate and they're throwing a Hail Mary, attempting, attempting to talk about outside groups as though they are President Trump's policy positions.

C
So she's downplaying this connection, but we know the connection exists. Franco, what is it?

E
Yeah, I mean, she's downplaying it and kind of accusing the Biden administration of trying to distract from his, you know, disastrous debate performance a couple of weeks ago. But the connections are real. I mean, again, policy is personnel. And the people who have been leading this are so intertwined with both the Trump administration and the Trump campaign, starting with Russ Vought. He was the director of the Office of Management and Budget during the Trump administration. He currently is helping lead the policy committee at the Republican National Convention. There's also John McEntee. He was former director of the White House presidential personnel office in the Trump administration. There's also Gene Hamilton. He was a top official for the Justice Department. I mean, these are the people who were involved in project 2025. And they are so mixed in with Trump. And, you know, just to add to that, and there's very little doubt that if he is elected again, he is going to need these people and he's going to depend on them to not only, you know, kind of fill key roles of his next administration and help him, you know, issue policy that he wants to do.

D
The fact is, Trump is trying to distance himself with parts of it that he feels politically aren't going to help him win. Right? I mean, we've heard him talk about that with abortion rights, for example, where he's tried to massage or finesse this position that really has him in a bit of a box saying, you know, let's push it back to the states.

Let the states decide when it really is the state policies that a lot of people are upset with. But Project 2025 and the people associated with it certainly are spiritually aligned with Trump if we think of it in that kind of way. And a lot of the people, as Franco is noting, who are behind this, are probably going to fill the spaces within a Trump administration if Trump does win. And they're the people who've been in his ear and who will continue to be in his ear.

C
So even though, as we've said, there are many, many pieces of Project 2025 that are right in line with things Trump has said and continues to say he wants to do, this appears to be an effort to seem more appealing to moderate voters, to swing voters. What this looks like it's about, I.

E
Mean, certainly the pushback from Trump is an effort to appeal to moderate voters. I mean, he knows the politics of this issue, as Domenico was talking about on abortion. He knows the challenges of abortion in Project 2025 in that 900 page playbook. They go much farther on restrictions for abortion. He's seeing the challenges of reaching independent voters, more moderate voters that he is going to need to win in a general election.

D
And I don't know if it's him really appealing to moderates as much as it's hime wanting to not look extreme to moderates.

E
Right.

D
He doesn't want to be cancelable among moderate voters who would say, gosh, I really just can't get, you know, with somebody who, even if I have issues with Joe Biden's age and mental fitness and ability to be president, and I kind of agree with some of his stuff, but not everything. And I'm more conservative on some things. They don't want to have a president who, you know, believes that there should be a crackdown on gay rights, for example, which are a lot of the things that within Project 2025, a lot of people are very concerned that it would do.

E
Yeah. And also, Trump doesn't like to give credit, you know, to other, to other groups, to other people. He likes to be the, he likes to be the spokesman. He likes to say, I am making these decisions. He is writing the policies. And some of his surrogates and allies say the heritage group just got a little bit too far ahead of their skis.

D
You guys remember when Steve Bannon appeared on the COVID of a magazine and it set off this entire thing during the Trump administration about Trump just really bristling at the fact that people were giving Steve Bannon the credit as his, like, campaign chairman, as really the sort of brains behind Trump. That is the kind of thing that will put you on the outs more quickly than anything else that you could do with Trump.

C
He wants to be at the center of the conversation and attention. And attention.

E
Sarah, I want to ask you, actually, because you've been doing some reporting on this. You know, the RNC just put out its platform, though. The campaign tells me that Trump wrote every single sentence of it. What do you make of the platform? Because there's been a lot of talk about the language surrounding abortion and concerns that they didn't go far enough.

C
Yeah, I mean, it's been portrayed as an effort to sort of moderate, you know, specifically the abortion piece. The new language focuses more on really what Trump's position has been for a while, which is the idea of leaving the issue to the states. It backs away from the idea of federal legislation. At the same time, it talks explicitly about the 14th amendment to the Constitution, which, of course, is federal law. And, you know, so I think in practice, what this actually means is unclear. And talking to my sources in the anti abortion movement, I hear, you know, some people are concerned. They don't feel it goes far enough. Others, I think, see it as a step in the right direction. They've told me. What we do know is that these groups are hopeful that if Trump is reelected, he will appoint people who share their, their views on abortion to a host of federal agencies and push forward their agenda one way or another.

D
Well, I find interesting former Vice president Mike Pence, who was really brought on the ticket to help Trump in 2016, appeal to white evangelical christians who might have had some pause about Trump's personal life. Pence wrote that this was a profound disappointment to millions of people who are against abortion rights. He said it was, quote, part of a broader retreat in our party, trying to remain vague for political expedience.

C
My sense is that it leaves the door wide open. If Republicans were to take control of Congress and the presidency. I don't think there's anything in that platform that prevents them from moving forward with efforts to restrict abortion nationally, which is, which is the goal of the anti abortion movement. All right. Well, let's leave it there for today. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign.

E
I'm Franco Ordonez. I cover the campaign as well.

D
And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

C
And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast podcast.

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