Trump's Compelling VP Pick of J.D. Vance, and Biden Refuses to Lower the Temperature, with Charlie Kirk, Hogan Gidley, and David Plouffe

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Megyn Kelly
Dot welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show.

48 hours after nearly being assassinated, Donald Trump shows up at the RNC in Milwaukee with a bandage on his ear and a defiance smile on his face. It was huge day for the GOP as Mister Trump announced Ohio senator JD Vance as his running mate, ignoring the DEI urges within his own party to go with a woman or a minority. In a minute, I'm going to be joined by turning points Charlie Kirk, who also spoke last night at the convention and was there for it all. I'm very excited to speak with him. But first, take a look at Mister Trump's entrance last night, coming out like he was a UFC fighting champ.

And I had to start again.

Amber Rose
Just my children, my purpose, and that is to elect Donald J. Trump as the next president of the United States.

He is here tonight to show his.

Megyn Kelly
Courage, his defiance against somebody who tried to kill him.

You will not take this man down. He has the courage, the strength, and.

Amber Rose
He will be the next president of the United States.

Megyn Kelly
What a way to begin to, there is so much news happening and we have a PAC show. We're going to get into President Biden's interview last night with Lester Holt, where, despite his own calls to lower the temperature during an Oval Office address to the nation, he did anything but. Even Lester was taken aback. But first, we have to talk about JD Vance.

Now, I first met JD back in 2017, about a year after his book Hillbilly elegy became a New York Times bestseller. The book dropped in the middle of the 2016 election cycle. It was JD's personal story of growing up in Appalachia, dealing with grave family turmoil, poverty, societal decay, abuse, family addiction, and eventually his path to a better life.

Though not explicitly a political book, it did help explain to coastal elites some of why Trump's message to the forgotten men and women of middle America to working class Americans, helped propel him to victory. JD was quickly deemed the voice of the rust belt.

He spent his earliest years in the backwoods of Jackson, Kentucky, a hillbilly born to a proud hillbilly family, as he says. He writes that at various points, his family threatened to cut off his ear, stabbed and shot random transgressors. You got to read the book and believed it was a sin punishable by grave bodily injury to insult someone's mother.

When JD was still young, his family moved to Middletown, Ohio, a steel town north of Cincinnati, once booming but eventually a casualty of globalization.

JD watched as the jobs dried up and the basketball courts grew covered with weeds.

My home, he writes in hillbilly Elegy, was a hub of misery.

Vance's mother and father divorced when he was just a toddler, his father up and left, abandoning him.

His mother, Beverly, was addicted to drugs, eventually heroin.

She brought man after man into the home, some abusive to her in front of her young son.

JD's childhood was full of trauma like this, which I asked him about. Being sworn at, insulted or humiliated by your parents?

Allmodern
Sure.

JD Vance
Jack.

Megyn Kelly
Being pushed, grabbed, or having something thrown at you?

Allmodern
Jack.

Megyn Kelly
Having parents who were separated or divorced?

JD Vance
Check.

Megyn Kelly
Living with an alcoholic or a drug user?

JD Vance
Check.

Megyn Kelly
Living with someone who is depressed or attempted suicide? Check. Watching a loved one be physically abused?

JD Vance
Check.

Megyn Kelly
You're batting a thousand.

JD Vance
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
JD's mother, angry with him once after a fight, apologized to her son. And then after the apology put him in a cardinal began driving erratically and threatened to crash and kill her terrified little boy.

As she began accelerating, JD jumped out of the car and ran for help. This is in the book and he told it to me as well. The police were called by a concerned neighbor, and twelve year old JD watched as the authorities took his mother away.

JD Vance
I remember I was just really sad and felt very lonely because I'm sitting in the back of this police cruiser. They've just arrested my mom. The relief of having survived another day, Washington gone. And then I just wanted.

Then I just wanted somebody to come and take me away. And that was actually Lindsay. That was who sorry.

Megyn Kelly
Why does that particular moment bring tears?

JD Vance
One. It's just such a crystal clear memory. And so it's hard almost not to feel the same way that I felt as a twelve year old kid sitting in the back of that police cruiser. But I also think that that moment is kind of a microcosm of my entire life, is that there was this brief moment of terror and of feeling really lonely. And then there was Lindsay.

Megyn Kelly
I would die for that kid.

And I know he would too.

Lindsay, JD's sister, she's five years older than JD, but at the time of that incident, she was only 17.

It was after this that JD went to live with his strict, no nonsense, gun toting grandma. And we do mean gun toting. She had 19 loaded guns all over her house.

Known to the family as Mama.

She was perhaps the most consequential in a series of strong women who saved JD from what could have been a dark path.

Ma'am.

JD Vance
All when she died, I think the number is 19 handguns loaded that we found in her house at various places.

Megyn Kelly
She also wasn't afraid to threaten using it.

JD Vance
Yeah, she said, look, you're gonna come and stay with me. And if anybody has a problem with it, they can talk.

Megyn Kelly
They can talk to my gun mama who told JD never to believe, quote, these fucking losers who think the deck is stacked against them. You can do anything.

Was so iconic that Ron Howard made her character the star of his movie based on JD's book. She was played by Glenn Close.

Jen, I never win.

Well, if you don't like it, find some lame ass loser to play with. You gotta take care of business, you gotta go to school, you gotta get good grades to even have a chance.

Allmodern
Mom was the best in her class. What's the point?

Megyn Kelly
I'm talking about a chant.

Lester Holt
You might not make it, but you.

Megyn Kelly
Sure as hell won't if you don't try.

Dr. Horton
Why do you even care what I do?

Megyn Kelly
I ain't gonna live forever.

Who's gonna take care of this family when I'm gone?

It wasn't easy. There were many more ups and downs in his childhood. But JD's grandparents, Mama, and his granddad, who lovingly called JD things like shithead and taught him how to take and deliver a punch, drilled into this little boy. The importance of good grades as a pathway to a better life. And eventually JD found his way.

He enlisted in the marines. He served overseas in Iraq, where Mama and Lindsey wrote to him every day. He came home a more disciplined young man, slimmed down, motivated.

He applied to and was accepted at Ohio State University, which he completed in two years, less than half the time expected, earning summa cum laude honors and completing a double major, and then the seemingly impossible admission into Yale Law School, one of the most competitive programs in the country.

That is where he met his future wife, Usha, and another hugely influential woman in his life, his professor and my friend Amy Chua, author of Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. Chua convinced JD to write down some of his incredible childhood stories in a memoir, and also to consider marrying Usha, whom she could see was very, very good for JD.

When I interviewed him in 2017, he had just returned from a post law school stint in San Francisco, working for investor Peter Thiel, and was determined to do something locally. Now back in his home area to help his home community.

I spent a fair amount of time with JD and Usha, just as she was about to have her first of three babies and simultaneously head off to clerk for Chief Justice John Roberts. She's an overachiever, too. And I asked about whether politics might be in their future.

What do you think? Should he run for office? I think someday, if the time is right, and if he really feels that that's the best way that he can contribute to his home, then I think that would be a great idea. Why do you get uncomfortable when that idea comes up?

Allmodern
I just.

JD Vance
I think that, you know, when people ask me if I wanted one for office, part of me wonder is like, do they think I just give off a used car salesman vibe?

Megyn Kelly
Don't you think it's more born of hope that you could be a. You could be a real change agent?

Allmodern
Yeah.

JD Vance
No, I think that's the optimistic take on it. I'm very flattered when people ask me, and you never say never, but it's just not something that I think about doing right now.

Megyn Kelly
Never say never is right.

Less than eight years later, he's in line to become potentially, the next vice president of the United States and the Republican Party's future.

The man who could carry on Trump's political legacy.

His story is the definition of the american dream. It's inspirational.

As with most stories like JD's, there are some realities to this path out of trauma that are not all rainbows and unicorns.

And that led to what I think is the most poignant part of our time together.

A discussion about how it's all affected him and his enduring bond with one of the women key to his survival of these traumas, his sister, Lindsay.

Do you think he's dealt with this stuff?

Amber Rose
I think that he thinks that he has.

I think that this book writing it was a very good step.

Megyn Kelly
When I finished the book, I felt a little worried about you.

I.

JD Vance
Why?

Megyn Kelly
I wondered if you had really dealt with everything.

That's interesting. And when I met with Lindsey, she wondered too.

What do you think?

JD Vance
That's a really good question. I've never been asked this. I think that the honest answer is that I probably haven't dealt with everything, but that that's part of growing up and living your life is you're constantly dealing with this stuff and you're constantly working through it. The book is not an effort to sort of finally work through all of these things that happened when I was a kid. It's the beginning of an effort that will probably take me for the rest of my life. And I'm okay with that.

Megyn Kelly
Wow. Yesterday, this was JD Vance on stage in Milwaukee, Wisconsin as he accepted the nomination for vice president of the United States on the GOP ticket. Delegates and alternates, ladies and gentlemen, I am proud to announce that Senator JD Vance has the overwhelming support of this convention to be the next vice president of the United States.

Wow.

I'm not gonna lie, that brought a tear to my eye. I have a very soft spot in my heart for this guy.

39 years old and the embodiment of the american dream.

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Joining me now, Charlie Kirk. The founder and CEO of turning Point USA. He's also the host of the Charlie Kirk show and author of the brand new book right wing revolution, how to beat the woke and save the west. Charlie, welcome back. I know you also spoke yesterday, but my God, JD, I'm thrilled that he's the pick. How about you?

Allmodern
I couldn't be happier. Thanks, Megan, for having me. I was pushing for this for quite some time. You know, I was a early endorser of JD's Senate primary when he was at one or 2% in the polls in Ohio, and nobody thought he had a chance. And he was up against the establishment and tens of millions of dollars. And that's a story worth telling as well.

I was getting very emotional watching that video because JD is a dear friend and I hope your audience understands. The more you get to know JD Vance, the more you're going to like him. His family is extraordinary. He is a good, smart man, and I put it in that order. He is a decent person of high integrity, wonderful family. He's in it for the right reasons. There are some really important similarities that JD Vance has with President Trump, such as being a class trader. It's important to remember, Megan, that when that book came out, he was so celebrated by the left wing elite. He was the keynote speaker at the Aspen Ideas festival. He was on every major left wing network, being celebrated as the guy who can explain why Donald Trump has such a big following. And JD Vance, over a series of years, made a decision to forsake that type of popularity and to go in a, not just a career in politics, but to get into a pattern of advocacy that led him into politics. And it is an extraordinary rise. And you said it so perfectly, Megan, only in America, and only in America is it possible where a young man, and he's older than me, but he's relatively young in the modern political dynamic, can come from absolute poverty, be abused, raised by his grandmother, had all the odds stacked against him to become the nominee for vice president of the United States, for the front runner and former president. How did we get here? Well, I mean, we got here first and foremost through divine providence. And I'm sure we're going to talk about that over the last week, just the fact that this convention is still going on in its current form or fashion.

But secondly, it's a testament to JD. JD did not want this. Megan, I hope everyone understands in the audience, almost everyone who was going for vice president had, like, war rooms and they had lobbying campaigns, and they were going after this to try to buddy up to Trump for the last nine months or ten months, when JD's, his name, was first floated to become Trump's vice president, potentially in February, March. He's like me. Like what? He's like, yeah, I love Trump, but like, what? And this is a guy who didn't ask for it, he didn't plan for it. He's not full of that kind of naked political ambition that I find to be so disgusting and repulsive.

Things just kind of come to him, and people see in him the best of the Trump movement, forgotten America, someone who lived that story and who will fight for those voters in Washington, DC.

Dr. Horton
Speaker one.

Megyn Kelly
You know, I said this before to our audience here, and I said, this isn't like a set in a romantic way, but my time with him and we were there for a few days led me to believe that this is a beautiful man. He's a beautiful man.

And I think that opening shows you what I mean. He's thoughtful, he's soulful, he's reflective, he's introspective. And I happen to love the fact that his good character, his survival, was shaped by women. It was his mama who got him through this, this childhood and her strength. His sister, with whom he has such a loving and dear relationship to this day, loved Lindsay. And then I love the fact that it's Amy Chua at Yale Law School who's like, one of the only non woke amazing, like, normal professors at Yale Law School who would help, help him take the next step, you know, that she saw in him. This is not just the next generation of lawyer. This is a special guy whose voice needs to be heard well beyond the Yale Law school campus and the campuses of white shoe law firms in America. She helped steer him, and she helped Usha, too, who had, you know, two federal clerkships, including, as I said, for the Supreme Court.

To me, that speaks so well of him like that.

The Republican Party, as you know, still gets demonized by the Democrats as, like, a bunch of just moronic, burly men, you know, toxic men who want to take away the rights to abortion. And like, yes, JD is pro life, but that is a man who respects women and whose very character was shaped by strong women, without a doubt.

Allmodern
And, I mean, it's important to understand that the men in JD's life failed him and who filled the void, as you went through the list, beautifully. And so, look, and JD has a huge heart. He just.

He radiates sincerity. And you know that because, I mean, I'm around. Look, honestly, Megan, I'm gonna have to go through some sort of detox. I'm here at the RNC right now, and there are so many political creatures crawling around here. It's so disgusting.

It's always about. No, I mean, honestly, it's like always about an angle and I want something from you. And they just, they just ooze that sort of stench of, you know, I'm trying to game the system with JD. It's completely different. And it's not just me. I'm going to tell you a true story. So this is the middle of the Veep stakes. We have our people's convention in Detroit, Michigan, and we have nearly 10,000 people there. And I was like, hey, JD, we're doing a straw poll for the vice presidency. If you want to try to make it, you know, I think you'll do very well because the audience likes you. It's like, yeah, you know, it's my ten year wedding anniversary. Hes like, thats a top priority for me. He said, but let me see what I can do. So he prioritizes the wedding anniversary and he texts, like, the day before. Hes like, okay, I think I can make it on Sunday. I said, great. So my team calls me and they said, hey, JD is coming. But hes driving himself from Columbus. What do you mean hes driving himself? This is a us senator, Megan, who might be the next vice president of the United States or the selection for VPN, who literally got in a car early on a Sunday morning, drove three and a half hours to Detroit by himself, staffed himself, was so warm to all of our staff, probably on almost no sleep, you know, took every picture, signed every book that was asked of him, gave an amazing speech, got back in the car so he could be back at dinner in Columbus, Ohio. I mean, like, that's so unheard of.

I mean, there are people that come and speak at our events that are running for dog catcher, and they come with an entourage and a posse that makes most rappers look as if they're understaffed. JD Vance is driving himself. And it's just like, he's like, yeah, it's just like I'm a regular guy. He doesn't think of himself as if he's better than you or that he's part of some sort of high society class.

And I think that he adds a dynamic and an element to the Trump ticket that will grow as time goes on. People are going to deepen their understanding of what the MAGA agenda really is. And also there is a youthful dynamic which I am so pleased. The data is screaming at us right now. Please put somebody on the ticket under the age of 50. Please put somebody on the ticket under the age of 50. And now you have Biden, 81, Trump, 78, Kamala Harris, either 58 or 59, late fifties. And now JD Vance, 39. I mean, that is a serious contrast. Who can really be a communicator to 35 year old voters who are struggling to buy a home and struggling to build a family. And so I think this was the best pick that Donald Trump could make. And more than anything else, he has a decent and a good person, and that is so hard to find in american politics.

Megyn Kelly
That's right. He, when I interviewed him, it was seven years ago. He was 32. He wasn't even old enough to run for president at that point. And now here he is, seven years later, you know, saying yes to potentially filling the most important role in the nation. God forbid something should happen to President Trump if this ticket wins. I do want to say Usha, an absolute star. And not only is she brilliant, I mean, truly brilliant, she went to Yale undergrad, and then she went to Yale Law School. And she might have done a stint at Cambridge, too. I can't remember, but.

So she is a very successful lawyer in her own right. But when he talked about her, he talked about how she, too, was one of these strong women in his life who helped him in the next chapter. She helped him understand how to manage his emotions, how to find calm in the storm, how to not let anger dictate how he responds in any given moment. He talked about how there was some. If he has road rage and he wants to get out and settle at hillbilly style, Usha was kind of like showing him in the beginning of their relationship. There's another way, JD. And was teaching him, like, conflict resolution in a relationship and to. To. To sever what had become, as it does with a lot of people who grew up in a household, like he did, almost an addiction to trauma. You know, like, you need to recreate it, probably, so you get a different result, but also because it gives you an adrenaline surge. You know, at first he talked about how, and he wrote in his book how he was scared when he heard all the fighting going on in his house, his mother being abused, and would cover his ears and cry when he was really little. And then he got to this point that's even more dangerous, where he put his ear up against the door to hear it. And those scars needed to be addressed before he could have a healthy relationship with Usha.

And so she helped him. She's been helping him learn how to be, as they say, quote, in relationship, in a healthy way. It's just as I see this man stand out there last night, you know, slimmer.

He looked great. I love the beard.

He looks more together. He stepped in his leadership role. I see the product of all these chapters of his life, which he's been very awake for and paying attention, you know, to where they're taking him and where his life could go. And I do believe he's on a journey of self discovery, that it would be an honor for the rest of us to watch unfold in its next chapter before the United States. This is. They don't come much better than this, Charlie.

Allmodern
No, they don't. And there's so many similarities with Donald Trump and then so many differences. And so Donald Trump, of course, was born in a different life with a different upbringing. Right. And. But in the same way, they're both class traitors, and they both seem. See the world very similarly. And I just think it's this hopeful testament that you could still make it in this country and that there still is a fighting chance if you have at least one or two people that are willing to pour into you. I guarantee you, Megan, mama is going to get a mention in the vice presidential acceptance speech. I guarantee that.

Megyn Kelly
I guarantee his book to her. Yeah, we need more mama. The stories about her are unbelievable. I remember talking to him. He came on again, and we talked, you know, on this show, but he.

There's a story about how the grandpa papa, he was boozing and staying out too late and not treating Mama right. And let me tell, it's not a good idea. You should not treat Mama poorly. And she said, if you do this again, I'm going to kill you. And he came home, her husband, drunk yet again and misbehaving, and she set him on fire. Now, this is not a recommendation, but he was okay. But this is just to underscore, Mama was quite a woman. And this is JD's. You know, this is the person who made him tough, but also loving. You know, weirdly. I mean, she was the most affectionate and kind to JD, who I mentioned she was calling him shithead, things like. But she absolutely adored this kid and would not let him set a low bar for himself. You know, helped him get a library card, made sure that he was getting access to the right books. You know, taught him morals like, the poor don't steal from the poor. That's the lowest form of low.

Taught him how to take a punch.

Dr. Horton
She.

Megyn Kelly
Because there is in hillbilly culture, a thing, and in other cultures, you know, you don't let certain things happen. You have to fight. And he writes in the book about how he was afraid of it. And so she punched him in the face because she said. And he was taken aback. And she said, was that so bad? And he said, actually, no. And she said, well, that's what it feels like, so you'll be okay. And the next day, he went to school, and he stuck up for a kid who was being bullied, and he punched the bully in the gut. And that bully never bothered him or the other kid again. So it's like.

It's kind of street justice. And I know today people will be like, oh, but it produces someone of extraordinary character. And to me, it's exciting that he could be.

The vice president is an important position in some ways, but it's more about him taking the baton from Trump next Gen. You know, Trump is term limited, obviously, if he wins again. And we need somebody else to be the standard bearer pretty soon.

Allmodern
Yeah. And just honestly, let's make sure we give credit to President Trump. There was a aggressive lobbying campaign against JD Vance, the likes of which I could write a short book, and I have text messages to prove it, because I was pushing for JD both privately and publicly. It's not a mystery. And I was using every ounce of political capital I had with President Trump and the team, uh, to try to make the case for JD. And I'll tell you, some of the worst people, as Tucker Carlson said, in this entire american political system, were doing everything they could to prevent JD from becoming VP. Why? Well, because JD has a contrarian, but I believe, correct view on the ukrainian conflict that we should not send hundreds of billions of dollars unrestricted to afford.

Megyn Kelly
We had it early. He's not a Johnny come lately to that position.

Allmodern
No, he's not. And by the way, I think they're most angry that he's being proven right and that he has exposed them all as frauds and liars and that his whole perspective is, let's stop the killing. And also, the homeland must be prioritized above foreign abstractions. But President Trump, you know, he gets knocked a lot. And I think this last week has really been, hopefully, a clarifying moment for people of the media, has been lying to you about Donald Trump repeatedly. You know, how many times have we heard, oh, Donald Trump is a coward who can't stand up for himself. Okay, he got shot. And the way he responded when he got shot, was one of the most heroic, unbelievable, just moments in american history. We're always told that, oh, Donald Trump is going to choose people around him that just confirm him because, you know, he's, he's not willing to stand up for what he believes. And, wow. I mean, he basically said, look, I want to now create a multi generational movement that goes beyond me. Thats a big deal, Megan. I mean, thats not a light decision. Think about it. He couldve chose some of the other people in the running that were closer to him in age, that had no charisma, that could raise a bunch of money and that were interesting as watching paint dry. You know exactly who im talking about, right? These finalists, like, okay, that would have been the safe pick. But then, honestly, there's no guarantee that the movement, excuse me, that Donald Trump built would continue, that it would survive what Donald Trump did.

And this is why they were howling and screaming, these neoconservative neoliberals, that wing of the party that I just can't stand, because now they know that all of a sudden there has been a cementing of this worldview. And for someone who's 30 years old, who has been trying to make sure that this change in the Republican Party is permanent, not temporary, this is one of the biggest deals imaginable. So credit to President Trump, he stood up to some very, very powerful people. He understood it and saw the game 10, 20, 30 years down the path. And he picked an extraordinary man.

And he trusted his gut instinct, any.

Megyn Kelly
Trust, I don't know, a month or two ago on the show, because all things for me relate back to Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory, my favorite movie. And I was saying, this pick for Trump could be like Willy Wonka needing to go outside of the industry to find a child, not an adult, who would want to do everything his own way. Not that JD is a child, but I was making the point that, like, you could get somebody who you, who take the baton and continue the traditions as you've established them in this very successful venture, or you could bring in somebody else who would want to do everything their own way. And I think ultimately he chose somebody who would take the baton and continue the maggot tradition and the way that Trump has created it. And I think that was, that's exactly what the party needed because I think the rest of the Republican Party is going to and already is coming home to Trump, as they did in 16.

And I do think, you know, he should do something to keep a the movement alive. But also to win back some of the male slippage that he suffered in 20 versus 16. He did not need to get a big boost with hispanic men or black men. He's doing very well with those. He does well with white men, too. But there had been some slippage from 16 to 20. And for once you had a leader who said, I see that and I actually care. I care about white men. I want them to feel invigorated and see the future. I'm not doing a diversity pick. I'm not doing a woman because people tell me I have problems with suburban women. I'm doing what I think is right. So credit to Trump, I've got to keep you going. But I have, I love it.

Allmodern
The fact that you have to pick based on affirmative action criteria is stupid. And Trump basically threw out the whole Dei worldview by saying no competence and merit over characteristics that don't matter.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. Okay. So already the media has got the knives out for JD. And they're thrilled, right? Because they were, they would have been terrified of one of these more establishment picks who they secretly, you know, would love instead of Trump.

So with JD, they know what you and I know. They saw what we just discussed. They know his life story is extremely powerful and will resonate with a lot of voters. So they're trying to make him into some demon, you know, scary conservative, which he's really not. He's nationalist, populist and he's conservative. But he's, I don't, he's not like Ted Cruz, conservative. Not, there's anything wrong with Ted Cruz.

And already Joe Biden's out, you know, the new and reformed Joe Biden, who's going to lower the temperature, is out with an ad about JD. And it happens to use a piece of my interview with JD Vance that we just excerpted from, back from when I was at NBC. Let me show, it's just a six second clip. Here it is.

JD Vance
Absolutely. I've criticized a lot of Trump's rhetoric and I'm not a big fan of some of the things that he said.

Allmodern
But there, okay.

Megyn Kelly
I'm not a big fan of some of the things that he said. First of all, the campaign tweeted out that what he actually said was I'm not a big fan of his, a big fan of Trump. That's not what he said. There is a distinction between I'm not his fan and I'm not a big fan of some of the things that he has said. So that's just for clarity. But secondly, take a look at the longer clip in this exchange between yours truly and JD.

Do you think that it explains why, when the so called coastal elites were getting very upset over the many offenses that Trump caused, some of the sexism, some of the foul mouthed language, that this was not particularly shocking because a lot of these folks had grown up around that?

JD Vance
Absolutely. I've criticized a lot of Trump's rhetoric, and I'm not a big fan of some of the things that he said. But there was almost a sense where people were offended by Trump, not because of the substance of what he said, but because of how he said it. Good society people should not talk in this way. And I just never quite understood that. That criticism.

Megyn Kelly
Completely bastardized by the Biden campaign like that, as are half of the things they're saying about him. However, having said that, Charlie, he was critical of Trump in 2016, because virtually everybody was critical of Trump 2016. The media wants to pretend there's no evolution on Trump from 16 to 24.

Allmodern
I think that this was. And I, in my private and public lobbying campaign for JD Vance, I decided to lean into the negative as one of the leads. Cause I, of course gonna come up. So I was talking to the president multiple times about this, and I said, mister president, everyone around you is gonna say that JD said bad things about you. I think that's exactly why you should select them. He said, well, what do you mean? I said, because there's a lot of people in the country that have said negative things about you that have grown and seen who you are, and they want you as president again. And now you have a vp that can connect to them and say, I was a skeptic, now I'm a believer. I was someone that wasn't sure, and now I am a committed devotee, not just someone in DC who always just has perfectly tailored talking points. And so I thought this was actually a differentiator that was an olive branch to the part of the country that might have said, oh, who's this Trump guy? I don't get it. And all of a sudden they would look and they'd say, wow, maybe all of my operating assumptions have been incorrect.

Maybe I have been focusing on the wrong things, where Trump micro might bother me. Okay, Trump might say words I don't like and tweet stuff, but Trump macro is the best president of our lifetime, where we have peace and prosperity and we have a border and we don't have men's and women's sports, all this stuff. And I think JD Vance is, is a perfect person to be able to tackle that, because if we are being honest, if we want to beat Joe Biden in November, I think that having a vice president who can kind of joke and be like, hey, how many in this audience have been Trump skeptics before? Megan? I bet a lot of hands would go up and he can.

Because he's that talented. Yeah, exactly. JD Vance is that talented. He's that smart. He can, like, shrug it off and say, hey, if we were only going by people that were behind Donald Trump when he got down the escalator, we would not win many electoral votes. Right. Politics is about addition, not subtract, subtraction multiplication, not division. So I think it's a actually a potential huge positive for the campaign.

Megyn Kelly
It's amazing when you look at, you know, that now they're trying to paint him as, like this, as I said, crazy, crazy guy. We pulled just the, the bills that he sponsored that are in committee right now. Let me give you a list. All right, quickly.

He's only been in the Senate for a year and a half. The Protection of Women and Girls in Sports act, it's obvious from its name what that's about. Protecting minors from medical malpractice. Meaning these surgeries that were performing on underage people, cutting off penises. He's against it. Same protect children's innocent act to protect children from some of these crazy drugs that are sterilizing them. The Border Safety and Security act of 2023. Yes. Suspend the entry of aliens in order to achieve the operational control of the border. Correct. The Death Tax Repeal act. Thank you. Yes. If we want to pass money to our children upon our deaths, shouldn't we be able to without the government taking half?

Allmodern
Yes.

Megyn Kelly
The English language. English Language Unity act of 2023 to declare English as the official language of the US Kids Online Safety act to protect children on the Internet, and endless Wars act. Correct.

Kate's law. Stop illegal reentry act to increase penalties for individuals who illegally reenter the US after being removed. Secure the Border Act.

Schools, not Shelters act, to stop people from using schools as a shelter for aliens who are not here lawfully. The Lake and Riley act, to require the SEC, the homeland Security department to actually force these sanctuary cities to cooperate. I could go on these, these, these are not extreme. I've virtually everybody listening to the show, and I have plenty of people who are not Republicans listening would agree with all of those, Charlie.

Allmodern
Totally. And this is what's important is that JD Vance is going to be smeared as this, like, radical conservative. Okay? Yes, he is a conservative, but he's someone that is not as ideological as you would imagine. He wants a restoration of the normal, and that's why he's so well liked in Ohio. So, wait, what do we just go through the list of. Okay, we believe in borders, that we should have a unified language. We believe that men should not be in female sports, and that children should not be victims of unproven and medieval medical experiments.

Megyn Kelly
And no endless wars.

Allmodern
Yes and no endless wars. And also, this is what's really important, is that those are things that he knows our losing issues for the Democrats. And it's a fun and important new wrinkle to the MAGA agenda that is beyond just what we saw in 2016 and 2020, specifically the trans issue with the children, men and women sports. And I think you're going to hear more about that, Megan, in the coming days at the convention as this culminates. And so, yeah, and look, he's only been there for quite some time. But, you know, what you saw in all that led that legislative pattern, a pattern of moral clarity, that JD Vance was not going there to try to get committee assignments, that he's there to do a job, and that he's there to fulfill the mandate from his voters, and he's there to do the right thing. And he will do that as vice president. And he will be steady and wise counsel to Donald Trump to reinstitute title Ix the way it should be. There will be no men in female sports. I mean, just imagine the first week of a Trump Vance presidency, 90% of this executive garbage that Joe Biden has done with the men and female sports, all that will be undone. And JD Vance will make sure it happens.

Megyn Kelly
And Trump has fully come on board to where you and I are on the gender stuff. He's gotten it. I think he just wasn't paying attention to a lot of that stuff early on, but he's there now. And you hear even the New York Times was doing a thing on Trump saying, yeah, on the gender stuff, he's going to crack down, but LGB rights are safe under Trump. He's not going to mess with LGB. But yes, on this trans stuff with minors and girl sports, Trump is on Team GOP fully, which is good. I want to move on to Trump and the assassination attempt, which has almost disappeared from the mainstream media 72 hours after it happened. Charlie, it's amazing how the left wing press has moved right on. They do not want anything that's going to make Trump look strong, look sympathetic, look good, look heroic, certainly nothing and in the wake of the media reporting, we are getting some shocking facts on the secret Service failure. Now, the latest headlines are that this shooter was spotted by law enforcement nearly 30 minutes before the shots were fired. We show the audience the video yesterday, showing the people being like, he's up there, he's up there, he's on the roof. But now we know it was nearly 30 minutes he was spotted before he actually unleashed fire. And the secret Service, while saying that local law enforcement was told of a suspicious person by rally attendees.

It's unclear whether or when this was relayed to the secret Service. So there's still more questions than answered about how this massive failure took place. What do you make of it?

Allmodern
I hope it's incompetence, Megan. And we are flirting with potential either gross negligence or malevolence. And so let me just read this reporting from Sean Davis, who's legit from the federalists, by the way. This guy is. He's the real deal. Secret Service had snipers inside the building the assassin used. They took pictures of him. They watched him pull out a rangefinder to get the exact distance to Trump. They radioed the Secret Service command post about the assassin. They all knew that he was there. Who gave the order to do nothing until the assassin shot Trump, killed an innocent man on stage, and fired around after round after round.

This is a mainstream reporting now where multiple secret service agents were indifferent about an assassin climbing on a roof and having an unobstructed 120 yard shot of Donald Trump. We keep on hearing that it's incompetence.

That's pretty hard to believe at this point.

Were there people that just didn't care about the protection of Donald Trump? Are these people that are that stupid? I mean, is it, is this, is this really, is this what we're supposed to just believe? That this is just a failure of intellect or that this is all Dei? And so here's a very simple question. As soon as there was commotion or chatter, why don't you pull Donald Trump.

Megyn Kelly
Off stage, put him in a vehicle.

Allmodern
You should say, hey, put him on stage right now. We got some weird stuff going on. In fact, they're saying we're blaming local law enforcement garbage.

That is nonsense. And still we have no resignations, we have no firings, we probably have a great cover up going on. And I am incredibly cynical and jaded in the short term when it comes to this. Nobody was fired. No one was fired from the Afghanistan withdrawal, nobody was fired. With our handling of COVID and all the lies associated in fact, the opposite. All those people are making more money than ever, and they've ascended in high society. No one was fired or held accountable from the signing of that letter for the Hunter Biden laptop or the COVID up that ensued there. Why should we believe that anyone should be fired when Donald Trump got shot? Megan, I was watching a lot of mainstream networks. What the calisthenics that they have to go through with their diction and their vocab choices, to not say the term Trump got shot is, is unlike anything I have ever seen. I mean, it's as if.

Megyn Kelly
Or the a word assassination.

Allmodern
That's right. They're saying yes at the incident.

Oh, the incident.

CNN said that he fell on stage when this happened.

Dr. Horton
Yes.

Allmodern
These are bad people. Okay? The media is full of bad people. They're not incompetent. They're not just partisans. These are bad human beings who, deep down, many of them, if you could read their private thoughts, they wanted Donald Trump to actually die on that stage. And only by the grace of God and by divine providence and the turning of the head and a slight gust of wind did it just hit his ear. I would, I wonder how many registered Democrats in this country actually know that Donald Trump got shot, not just had shrapnel at him. I actually, I think that would be a very interesting thing to find out.

Megyn Kelly
But, Megan, we actually have Keith Olbermann out there suggesting he wasn't shot at all and that he's made up.

Allmodern
These, these people are just are. I keep on using that word. They're repulsive. They are the lowest of the low. And again, I just, there's so many elements here to unpack.

You have Barack Obama and Bill Clinton also, you know, thoughts and prayers. Oh, really? You said he was Hitler, basically. Many of you, like, if Hitler got shot at, would you say thoughts and prayers for Vlad. For Hitler or for Vladimir Putin? You guys compared in a putinous repeatedly. So which, so one of those is a lie. Either he's not Putin or Hitler or. You actually don't mean thoughts and prayers for Donald Trump and you hope that he got his, his brains blown out. This was, we were, we were anywhere between one inch to two inches, Megan, from civilizational chaos.

Yeah, we were one. I mean, they would have been a civil war. No? Yeah, I hope you were. I hope you're wrong. And I think you're right. I, they say football is a game of inches. The civilization is now a game of inches.

Megyn Kelly
It was, it was scary on so many levels. I, I want to say this all the reporting we've seen so far is that it was local officials in that building and not the secret service. I realize Sean is reporting it was Secret Service. We had a Secret Service former guy on the show yesterday and a security expert with ties to all these folks who are, you know, investigating this and involved. And they seem to say it was the local authorities, but they were not giving the secret Service a pass. They were saying, nonetheless, the local authorities and the area outside the perimeter is ultimately the responsibility of the secret Service as well. Just because some pieces get delegated doesn't mean it's still not on the shoulders of the secret Service, whose main mission is to protect the life of the president.

So we'll find out. But, yes, now, the reporting is pretty universal, that there were at least three agents of some sort, local or secrete, um, inside the building, and people were calling attention to this guy, and nothing was done until a moment before he fired the trigger at Trump. You know, one cop hoisted another cop up, who looked on the rooftop and got threatened with the gun and went back down, as opposed to taking on the gunman, which I realize, easy for me to say, but I'm not in law enforcement. I'm not courageous like that. That's why I sit at an anchor desk all day.

Allmodern
How did he get on the roof?

I mean.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, well, there's some reports. I don't know whether this drove that, but that he climbed a ladder that may or not. May or may not have. Doesn't look like there was a ladder there, because how, why did the cop have to hoist somebody? Did he have help? All this needs to be investigated.

Allmodern
Yes. And so, first of all, I don't trust any of the investigators. I bet they're actively covering things up and destroying evidence because that's what they do.

The Secret service director, who's another Dei pick, where her experience before this was protecting Pepsi cans and potato chips. Not an exaggeration. She was the head of.

Megyn Kelly
She was Jill Biden's favorite.

Allmodern
Yeah, Jill Biden's favorite, who is a Dei pick. And she has been more concerned about diversifying the Secret Service. You saw the people around Donald Trump. They're not exactly people that you would want to be protecting a president. They can't holster a weapon. They weren't even strong enough to be able to bring Donald Trump to the vehicle. The Secret service director, Kim Cheadle, says this snipers weren't on the roof where Thomas crook shot because it was sloped and unsafe.

That's right.

That is something that she should be fired immediately. Well, of course, but she's. But even if she's fired, she'll keep her pension and she'll go get hired at a corporate job for security.

Her goal was to make 30% of the Secret Service female. And I want to just make one more point here. Meganeh, you were so kind to me when I made my remark about Dei and black pilots, which got taken out of context. You gave me an opportunity to defend myself and the media came after me hard and you were very kind to me. The point I was making back in February is the same point now. Dei will get people killed. Okay. This is not a joke. That the fact that you start hiring based on characteristics that don't matter is one of the reasons why Donald Trump fell to it was two inches away from getting his brains blown out and this country on the brink of a second american civil war.

Megyn Kelly
It's terrifying. I still can't quite believe that it happened and that the media wants to move on so quickly, even from this. But I understand why, polling wise and, you know, electorally speaking now, Charlie, the news is that they're stuck with Biden. They're going to keep him. You know, they know they can't push him out now because the GOP is completely united and they can't have divisions within the Dem party.

I think that's still good for Republicans, for Team Trump. What do you think? Because there is some polling coming out now. There was something from morning consult showing that Biden actually went up post assassination attempt of Trump. And 538 is reporting that Joe Biden is ever so slightly more likely to win than Donald Trump. So how do you stand on all of that?

Allmodern
Yeah, I mean, it's probably a good thing to run against Joe Biden. Remember, we have not really had an opportunity to take the case against Joe Biden recently. He's had a lot of uninterrupted tv time. I think that we're going to be fine when it comes to that kind of contrast. I still give us a 50 50 shot of winning this election. But let me tell you one thing that we need to be cautious about, and we predicted this on our podcast last week, and we are proven correct. You're going to see Joe Biden, the Bernie Sanders populist. He says that he's going to freeze rents at 5% across the country. He's making some very radical left wing promises. Why? The donors are turning on him. The oligarchs of the Democrat party are turning on him. But the people that aren't turning on him is AOC and Bernie Sanders. They're giving him counsel. And the council is lean in to the most revolutionary radical ideas of the Democrat party, which will reinvigorate your base, expand your margins, and be able to have two populists running in this election. That's my biggest concern, Megan, is that Joe Biden starts promising free stuff, starts doing mass amnesty before the Supreme Court can reverse it, starts giving out loan forgiveness before the Supreme Court can reverse it. That is the biggest concern, is that Joe Biden no longer being puppeteered or controlled by his donor masters is a Joe Biden that politically could be far more dangerous than I think people realize.

Megyn Kelly
Charlie Kirk, a lot to think about. The battle's not over. Four months to go, and there's a lot yet to be done. Great to see you. We'll see you out in Milwaukee. We're on our way.

Allmodern
Thank you. Talk to you soon.

Lester Holt
Thanks.

Megyn Kelly
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Megyn Kelly
It'S a big week tomorrow. We will be coming to you live from the RNC in Milwaukee. And I, boy, do we have some great interviews lined up for you.

This as the GOP celebrates and President Biden finds himself on the defensive, trying to re energize his campaign.

He had a testy exchange with Lester Holt of NBC News last night. We'll get to that. But the bigger issue for team Biden is still voter sentiment. A brand New New York Times poll taken after the debate. But before I the president's news conference after NATO last Thursday and before the assassination attempt against former President Trump finds the Biden campaign is struggling in two must win states, at least in Pennsylvania, Mister Trump is ahead of Joe Biden, 48 to 45. In Virginia, it's the reverse. President Biden leading former President Trump by three points. But this is a state Mister Biden wondehood by more than ten points in 2020. So he's up, but not by much. Joining me now, Hogan Gidley, former national press secretary for the Trump campaign. He's now vice chair at the center for Election Integrity. And David Plouffe, who's a former White House senior advisor to then President Barack Obama. He now hosts the campaign managers with Kellyanne Conway and David Plough. Hogan. David, great to see you both. David, it's been so long. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you.

Dr. Horton
It's great to see you, Megan.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, so there's a lot going on today.

Can I just ask you, let me kick it off here, Hogan, because the RNC is still underway. We got another big night tonight. And what I'm seeing in the news right now, people reacting pretty strongly to people like Amber Rose who got up there. She's a rapper in her own right. She's, I think, best known for being Kanye West's ex girlfriend. She's got 24 million followers on instagram.

She is of mixed race, which is relevant to her appearance at this RNC because she got up there and talked about how she used to hate Donald Trump, thinking he was a racist and then rethought it. I'm going to get your reaction to her. First sat 25. And I believe the left wing propaganda that Donald Trump was a racist.

My father said, no, he's not. Amber, what are you talking about?

And when I insisted, he said, prove it.

So to prove my father wrong, I did my research and looked into all things Donald Trump.

I realized Donald Trump and his supporters don't care if you're black, white, gay or straight. It's all love.

So I let go of my fear of judgment, of being misunderstood, of getting attacked by the left. And I put the red hat on, too.

Thank you.

I want to thank my father, who's in the audience tonight, for opening my eyes. He served over 20 years in the us military. Thank you for your service, dad.

Okay. So, Hogan, what did you make of it? Because I've seen Van Jones say this was very effective for the Republicans and scares him as a Democrat. But then I've seen commentators like the Daily wires, Matt Walsh saying, why would you have. He called her, I think, a slut like that up there at the republican convention.

Amber Rose
Well, look, first things first. When she came into the hall, there were a lot of people around me who said, now, who is this? They had no idea, despite her 25 million followers, as you just pointed out.

Megyn Kelly
Still, to be honest, same.

Amber Rose
Yeah, it's just a million more than me, so that's fine. But listen, she was so dynamic in her, in her conversation with the people in that hall, because like so many out there now, she was on the side of hating Donald Trump. And if there's one thing Donald Trump loves more than a day one supporter, it's a convert. He loves the convert because he can tell that story. And putting her up there was so savvy politically. But I'll tell you, some of the biggest applause lines of the night came from her when she was talking about her switch and being tested by her own father, pushing her to actually defend her position. She couldn't do it. And she went down the rabbit hole and started figuring out what Donald Trump was about. She realized the commentary from the left, the accusations, didn't have any merit at all. And it was a really interesting conversation to have in that hall because, as you know, that didn't happen much on the republican side to see someone like that. And while the Matt Walshes and others are offended by it, and I get a lot of the opposition to it, Donald Trump doesn't, will never, he doesn't now, but will never have more political capital, I think, than he does right now. And working to use that to try and broaden out that tent and get voices on his side that he hasn't had before. That the Republican Party hasn't had before, I think is really savvy.

Megyn Kelly
Van Jones, the quote was something to the effect of she's a bunker buster for the Democrats. That's what he said about her. I'm trying to find the exact language, David, but he was saying that she's a threat because she's appealing to disaffected Democrats who are not in love with Joe Biden and still might be flirting with. I like Trump, but I'm afraid to say it.

Dr. Horton
Right. So having been responsible for conventions in the past, I think sometimes we can. They all seem big in the moment, the speeches. And then the question is, is there any lingering? I always look at it as is somebody going to vote or behave differently based on an event, in this case a convention speech. So I think it was a smart pick. I think generally politicians don't break through on social media because most people are going to witness the republican convention at least up until Thursday night, through podcasts, through social media, through TikTok and Instagram. So if someone like that is now going to be posting frequently between now and the election day and both messaging, that can be effective. So I think, you know, that was always our challenge in the conventions I was part of is, you know, obviously the networks want to cover the big names, but it's the real people, particularly when it's a somebody who surprises people. Like, I'm surprised that person's at the republican venture and surprise that person's at the democratic convention. And to Hogan's point about growth, I mean, that's necessary. I mean, Megan, you and I talked a lot back in 16, Donald Trump won that in kind of a black swan event, but he won it with less than 47% of the vote, obviously a terrible 18% for the Republican Party. He lost in 20, again, not getting over 47% of the vote and a bad 22 that he was in part responsible for. So I think the question is now, I don't think JD Vance is a selection that suggests he's focused on growth, but that has to be where it is.

And his poll standing now is stronger than we've seen in the last two elections because there are polls. They could be wrong, but he's at 47 48 49 as opposed to 45 46. So just speaking as a practitioner, particularly when you have some wins behind your back, and I agree with Hogan that he does, that's the moment when you want to capitalize and give people a permission structure, because this race, my guess is, will tighten. We'll talk about whether it's Harris or Biden or somebody else. I don't think it'll stay this wide, but Trump has a real lead right now. It's the most significant concern, I think, for Democrats in a presidential race since 1988 to caucus George HW Bush going way back. So Trump should do everything he can right now to solidify his gains. There's no question one of his strengths right now is with black voters, particularly men. He's over 20% in most polls, hispanic voters, he's over 40 in some young voters doing better. What's interesting about that is, of course, he's outperforming republican candidates pretty dramatically. Biden's underperforming democratic Senate candidates pretty dramatically. So I think for Trump, he's probably most focused on locking in some of those gains with younger voters and voters of color, but probably wants to see some of that transfer to his party as well in the weeks to come.

Megyn Kelly
You know, Frank Luntz, longtime focus group runner who's on Fox News a bunch of times, and now he's been everywhere. But he does, he makes his living by polling groups of voters and having them react live to various events. He does both. And he just sent out a post on x, which struck me, he writes, last night, voters saw a republican party that they and I have never seen before. A stage filled with hardworking taxpayers, African Americans, working women, union members and delegates dancing in the aisles, speeches bashing corporate America and the status quo. We witnessed the realignment of american politics, Trump style. Hashtag Gopconvention. Hogan I think he's exactly right. I mean, it's pretty extraordinary to see those groups as described at the Republican Party versus just four to eight years ago. Well, I guess it would have to be eight years ago.

Amber Rose
Yeah, there's no question. And even the rhetoric Donald Trump had back in 2016 about people coming across the southern border, so many Republicans in the establishment said it's going to kill him with Hispanics. But we saw gainshead with Donald Trump over someone like Mitt Romney or even George W. Bush. And now it's gotten even bigger. People are looking at Donald Trump and realizing, regardless of your race, religion, color, or creed, the policies are what matters. And when you see exorbitant prices for gas and for groceries, that happened because we had a change and a shift in economic policy from the Trump administration to the Biden administration.

And when you start to see so many different faces and so many different attitudes and beliefs show up at a republican convention. You realize what Donald Trump has done to build out and broaden out that tent. We were joking. I had some friends we were talking about backstage that we'd never seen anything like this before at a republican convention. And that's true. I don't think anyone could have done it except for Donald Trump. But he's willing to go into these places. We've seen how many campaign stops in areas that no Republican would dare trod. Never would you see that before? And he goes right in there and people love him and people hug him. But David's right, too. What does that mean, ultimately, for getting out the vote, getting those people to turn out to the polls? Because all of this stuff, and Donald Trump has had a string of incredible victories. The Republican Party has had a news cycle like I've never seen in my 25 years in politics. So I'm just waiting for some shoe to drop at this point, if I'm being honest. But it continues to kind of snowball. It's that Haley Barber thing. The good get better and the bad gets worse. The good is getting better right now for Donald Trump. And to showcase everything after an assassination attempt, you see a big victory in court. Now we're at this convention. The first night was a home run. And you mentioned single moms who couldn't make ends meet, a person with on fixed income, and he was having trouble with the prices. Amber Rose, you had the head of the Teamsters union, for heaven's sakes, coming here and talking directly to republican voters.

Megyn Kelly
You're remarkable.

Amber Rose
It really has been impressive.

Megyn Kelly
Let's play that. Because the Teamsters president showed up at the Republican National Convention, and it was very interesting to listen to him talk about Trump. He had the old like, whether you like him or not, kind of precursors to his remarks, but he landed it. It was kind of fun to watch Trump's reaction, to watch 24.

Amber Rose
No other nominee in the race would.

Megyn Kelly
Have invited the Teamsters into this arena.

You can have whatever opinion you want, but one thing is clear.

President Trump is a candidate who is not afraid of hearing from new, loud and often critical voices.

And I think we all can agree whether people like him or they don't like him, in light of what happened to him on Saturday, he has proven to be one tough sob.

And then Trump smiled after he said that last part. David, what did you make as a Democrat of the Teamsters president showing up at the RNC?

Dr. Horton
Well, again, it's a moment, and I think one question will be, what does the Trump campaign do with that? Are they going to advertise using those words? Are they going to try and reach union members, teamsters and others? We'll see. That is going to be an important battle. You know, I think the service unions, Democrats still dominate in terms of electoral performance. You know, some of the building trades unions, it's more competitive. And so Biden's numbers right now challenged, or they are, you know, are being held up in part because he's doing really well with seniors, including, you know, white seniors, you know, middle aged voters, including a lot of union members. So that's been a place where you've not seen the erosion that we've seen amongst younger voters and some voters of color, although, you know, there's plenty of union voters who are voters of color. And, you know, that's going to require a lot of sophisticated data analysis to see what's happening there. But listen, I'm surprised because I've been studying republican conventions for longer than I'd like to admit, and I don't remember a single one that was really focused on growth.

Speaking to people who may disagree with you on a lot of issues, really going back, Megan, historically to the 92 convention, which is such a disaster with Pat Buchanan and George hw Bush, McCain, I didn't think did a good job of that. Romney did not do a good job of that age, twelve, although he probably would have been a good candidate to do that. It was really talking to the base. And Trump, I think, is in a place right now where he's got to worry about turnout for sure.

But you're less focused on the base right now. You're more focused on growth. And so any voices that I think add to that ability to create a permission structure is smart. Now, Democrats will have a response. Most importantly in the campaign, most of the unions are supporting Biden. Almost all of them are. They're going to spend real money out there driving a message both for Biden against Trump. So again, we don't want to overreact, in my humble view as a practitioner her, to a moment like that because we'll see what effect really the question will be is what does the Trump campaign do with it?

Megyn Kelly
You know, that's interesting. That's fascinating to listen to somebody who's actually helped get a guy elected twice talk about, okay, this is how significant it is versus could be if it's used properly. Next, what's going to happen next, Randy Weingarten shows up.

What, what's happening? This is an unusual republican convention.

In the meantime, I want to, to shift a little and talk about Joe Biden because there was a report by CNN's John King yesterday that I was thought was very interesting about the polls and how it's going over on team blue. And I'm trying to find my sheet. Here it is.

Okay, so it's the headline piece on CNN is private efforts by private efforts to nudge Biden to step aside continue?

And he's gotten his hands on this.

Well, reports about polling memos from, quote, seasoned and respected democratic pollster Stanley Greenberg sharing his take that Biden is on track to lose the election and that these polls by Stanley Greenberg, these memos are being shared with top Biden aides and indeed maybe Biden himself, as the private efforts to get Biden to step down. Continue reporting that the public calls have quieted since the assassination attempt on President Trump because the Democratic Party wants to look unified. And it's just the timing feels off now in the wake of that. But that behind the scenes, the effort remains robust. Quote, lose everything is how one Democrat described a polling memo Greenberg sent to Biden's inner circle, quote, devastating was the one word answer of a second Democrat close to the White House who's familiar with the Greenberg memos saying, look, he, he's not going to, he's not going to win. And the vast majority of the party does not see him as up to serving four more years. So do you know this guy, Stanley Greenberg? David, and what do you make of this report?

Dr. Horton
I do, if I recall, Stan was pretty critical of Barack Obama and his election prospects. So I take it with a grain of salt. That being said, as a Democrat, obviously you don't like where the race is right now.

And I don't think we should engage in something that I think we've seen Republicans, not Hogan and Megan, you guys are the exception, but engage in cherry picking polls. I think, on balance, the public polls that are, I think, trustworthy, and then certainly the private polls that have been covered, and I certainly see some are concerning. Now, when I talk to Kellyanne Conway, she'll be the first person to tell you. And Kellyanne knows this electorate quite well. Joe Biden could still win. We had Jason Miller from the Trump campaign on our podcast a couple of weeks ago said the same thing. Why is that? Well, it's because we live in a divided country and Donald Trump is still a challenged political figure, even though he has had a good few weeks here politically. The debate really, I think, changing the race most dramatically in the near term. But, you know, he still has a pretty low ceiling. That being said, I think what you're seeing is democratic candidates for the Senate, democratic candidates for the House, other folks running for state and local office have seen erosion at the top of the ticket. Now, do I think that Joe Biden is going to lose Pennsylvania by five to seven? I don't believe that. I think it will be closer than that. But at the end of the day, the deficit here is real. And it's not just the head to head. As you know, his approval rating is in the thirties, anywhere from 70% to 80% of the public's concern about his fitness for office. We don't have a lot of energy for young people.

This doesn't bring me any joy in saying this, but I've always believed in life. But certainly in politics, if you don't face the truth and admit where you are, it's hard to smartly course correct. So I think that debate will continue. I agree with you. It probably settles down this week, publicly, maybe through Thursday. I think you'll then see more people come out. I mean, right now, I think Joe Biden is the odds on favorite to be the nominee. They'll still be folks raising questions. So we'll ultimately see. And the question for me is if Biden is the nominee.

The thing that stresses me out is the calendar, as it always did when I used to run campaigns. And by the way, people start voting in battleground states in about 80 days.

You don't have to November 5. You got to change the structure of the race between now and early October, and you can't waste a day. And so I think the Lester hold interview last night, you know, Biden had some good moments, but I think when he was talking about Lester, not asking him questions about issues and things, listen, every candidate gets frustrated by the press. Donald Trump certainly gets frustrated by the press. But a good candidate takes a question, can respectfully answer the question, and then move it to the message you want to drive. And right now, we're stuck in this dynamic where I think Joe Biden's on the defensive.

Most incumbents around the world, I don't care who you are in today's politics, cannot win a referendum. You've got to turn it into a choice and a searing choice. Joe Biden failed to do that in the debate. A little bit better, I thought, in his press conference last week, last night in the interview, I didn't think, great. So that's the question is, and I think democrats are continuing to wrestle. And I'll just end here. Megan, as most weighted decisions in life are, it's not like there's a good option and a bad option. You know, there's risk with change. So if Joe Biden were to step down, let's say Kamala Harris is the nominee or someone else, I think she would be, the odds on favor to replace him, there's no guarantee. The one thing we learn every presidential cycle you've covered a lot of them is there's candidates that look on paper like they will walk into the White House, Ron DeSantis being the latest example. And this presidential stage chews people up. Very few people come out strong. Jeb Bush, right. I mean, it's just the graveyard is littered, democratic and republican. So we'll see. But the one thing I'd say is a different democratic candidate, you know, may not do as well with seniors as Joe Biden. And that's a big issue. They may not do as well in some working class areas. So there's risk. But again, there's a delta right now between Democrats running for Senate and Joe Biden with younger voters, with black voters, hispanic voters. So I think that's what a lot of Democrats are wrestling with.

Is that something that gets better if we had a different candidate, but at the end of the day, only one person with the voting shares here, one, and it's Joe Biden.

Megyn Kelly
Hogan David mentions Joe Biden with Lester Holt last night. And the answer where he kind of got all over Lester and try to dodge on his own debate performance and instead turn it around on the media for not making that debate about Trump. Here's that. SOUNDBITE watch.

Lester Holt
In your last tv interview, you were asked if you had watched the debate, and your answer was, I don't think so. No. Have you since seen it?

I've seen pieces of it. I've not watched the whole debate. Are you seeing what they saw? Which was moments of, frankly, that appeared to be, you appeared to be confused, Lester. Look, why don't you guys ever talk about the 18 to 28 lies he told?

Where are you on this? Why did the press ever talk about that?

I just asked a question. Because the idea that you may or may not have seen what some of these other folks have seen, you're not on the same. I'd have to see. I was there.

I had to see it. I was there. And by the way, seriously, you won't answer the question, but why didn't the press talk about all the lies he told? I didn't know anything about that. We have reported many of the issues that came during that debate. No, you haven't, but we'll provide you with them. God love you.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, here's part of the problem with that, Hogan. As I see it, not only is it obviously a dodge, but you can't attack Lester Holt because Lester Holt is not a hateable figure. He's a sweet guy. You know, trust me, even I had a very negative experience at NBC, but not with that guy. He was actually very sweet to me the whole time. Like, you can't make a villain out of him. That's not going to be an option for you when you're on the ropes. Like, Joe Biden was there and he says, you know, I don't have to watch it. I was in it. The question that was asked was, did you watch it? That's what Stephanopoulos asked him. And he said he wasn't sure. So it's now he's landed on. I didn't have to watch it. I was there. But, yeah, you couldn't even remember days after whether you'd seen it anyway, what did you make of it now?

Amber Rose
So many things wrong with that, obviously. Listen, to watch someone of the left, like Joe Biden, complain about the media is so rich on its face.

The left has been coddled by the mainstream media, the press, the legacy media, whatever you want to call them, especially Joe Biden. I mean, the guy's been in office for half of a century. They've been carrying his water that entire time. They've been covering up, up for his mistakes, his problems, his bad policies for the last four years. And that problem on the debate stage was now the veneer was off. The american people saw it with their own eyes. And the press kind of had to pretend as though they didn't know anything about it and that this is all new information for them when it obviously wasn't. And so to watch Joe Biden attack someone like Lester Holt, and you said, yes, he's a very likable figure. I was with him this week, a more sweet man. There is nothing on this planet. And Joe Biden couldn't say, hey, I called those things out on stage. Cause he didn't. The issue in that debate was the way Joe Biden looked, the way he responded, the slack jaw, the staring off into the distance that has long been his problem. But it was on the main stage for all the world to see. And you talked about falling off that presidential stage. Yes. No lights burn hotter. No stage is bigger than that of the presidential. And in all deference, to my good friend Rick Perry, you can oops yourself off that stage in a hurry. There's a long way to go, though, between now and the election. David's absolutely right. A lot is going to change. There will be ebbs and flows, of course, but moments like this for Joe Biden do not help him.

Yes, he had some flubs in here. Yes, he had some mistakes. We know he's frail. We know he's feeble. We know he's fragile. That, to me, is not really the issue, because while the american people see that, they're more concerned about how his policies have impacted their lives and how their own economies are bad because of him, and when he goes up on a friendly like George Stephanopoulos or like Lester Holt and botches that simple task, 93% of the news coverage on Donald Trump, by every available measure and every available data point was negative, 93%. And this guy has one bad cycle and he's complaining about it. I just find that to be so.

Megyn Kelly
Rich totally brought upon himself, that's not a media generated controversy.

Amber Rose
It's his fault. And I'll say this because as we look at this convention, and I'm here and people are walking by. So if you hear something, I'm sorry, they're just loud and they're excited.

But watching Republicans try to expand and grow this tent is fascinating because we're in July. Joe Biden is still trying to shore up his base. He's still going to black churches and trying to say, hey, remember me? I'm Joe Biden. It's July.

People will start voting in a few months. And so when he has opportunities to try and turn the narrative, when he has an opportunity to try and say, no, I promise I'm a steady hand. I can make this country better. I can make your life better, he doesn't do it. He complains. And it is a serious issue, not just for Joe Biden, but for the Democrats writ large.

Megyn Kelly
80 days. That is the phrase I am going to be taking away with me today. 80 days. It's such a short window to turn an aircraft carrier around, if we believe that. You know, I'm mildly interested in these national polls, but I'm much more interested in the likely voters in the battleground states which have been consistently strong for President Trump. And I have yet to see that changing, especially in the blue wall states in, you know, Michigan and Wisconsin, Minnesota, that whole region there. And then Pennsylvania, where, you know, JD Vance is from, that's basically his territory. Ohio is right next to Pennsylvania. That's where he grew up. And that's another play that's going to work well there. That white working class in those states, I think they're going to respond well to JD. And I know the media is jumping all over him about, oh, you know, you didn't like Trump. He said terrible things about Trump, which he did. For sure. He did not like Trump. But his life story, I think, is a big part of why he was chosen. It's absolutely inspirational. I think all those people, once they hear that, are going to be very moved, as I was, by JD Vance. He's, he's a, an inspirational figure. Now, the media, let's see if they let that throw. But I want to stand on Joe Biden for a minute. So here's the thing, and there's a bit of a quandary right now for the Democrats, David, because, forgive me for putting it this way, but because of the assassination attempt, because they want to continue slugging Donald Trump as hard as humanly possible.

But it's a little hard because the nation's sympathies are with him at the moment. We all saw what happened on Saturday. I think most humans were inspired by the way he handled it.

And then you had Joe Biden come out in the White House and say, we've got to lower the temperature. Lower the temperature. So, but then he goes on with Lester, and it didn't seem like a lowering of the temperature moment. He brought up a lot of tropes about Donald Trump that have been debunked. So you tell me what they're supposed to do with this. Let's, let's watch, um, a little bit of that.

Lester Holt
There's, there's no place at all for violence and politics in America. None of, for example, you know, the January 6, you know, the attack on the Capitol. I watched what happened in Charlottesville, Virginia. He said, they're very fine people on both sides, but have you taken a step back and done a little soul searching on things that you may have said that could incite people who are not balanced?

My opponent is against that rhetoric. He talks about to be a bloodbath if he loses. Suspend the sentences of all those who were arrested and sentenced to go to jail because of what happened in the Capitol. This doesn't sound like you're turning down the heat, though. We've talked about the.

Megyn Kelly
No, no, no.

Lester Holt
Look, when I'm turning down, we have to stop the whole notion that there are certain things that are contrary to our democracy that we're for.

What can you. And what will you do at least things you can control to lower down the temperature? The rhetoric out there?

Continue to talk about the things that matter to the american public.

It matters whether or not you accept the outcome of elections. It matters whether or not you, for example, talk about how you're going to deal with the border instead of talking about people as being and vermin. And, I mean, those things matter. That's the kind of language that is inflammatory.

Megyn Kelly
So, I mean, just for the record, the fine people thing has been debunked over and over and over, including by left wing fact checkers. That's not what Trump said. The bloodbath thing was a comment made by Trump in the economic context where he was talking about how China wants to take advantage of us by building plants in Mexico and hurting american workers and that if they, if they think they're going to get away with that, they're nothing. If he's voted in, it'll be a bloodbath for the economy. He was obviously talking about the automobile industry and the tariffs that he was going to bring and Biden wouldn't, but he continues to misuse those things. I don't know that. The average american knows that. I don't know. What do you make of this pickle of which I speak?

Dr. Horton
Well, Megan, I'm sorry to disagree with you on your program, but listen, you only basically an eight year old's Google search skills to see really for the last, I mean, even going back to the eighties with Donald Trump and some of the things he did in New York. But his rise has really been fueled by, you know, personal attacks, kind of abrasive violence. I remember back in 2020 there were some folks in Texas trying to run the Biden campaign bus off the road. And Trump tweeted, God love Texas. I mean, this is someone comfortable with kind of visuals of violence, attacking immigrants, attacking muslims. So it's a little rich for me. But I think where Trump would like to turn the race, certainly his team is, is basically, hey, we need to be more unified, so stop attacking me. That's how he'll define unity. And I think Democrats, you know, you want criticisms and attacks in contrast to be within bounds, but, you know, on things like, should we have a peaceful transfer of power, should the person who, like, if Joe Biden loses this election, he will say, I lost the election, he'll call Donald Trump, I can see to him and cooperate with the transition.

Donald Trump didn't do that in 20, and he said he likely wouldn't do it this time. JD Vance as vice president said, unlike Mike Pence, he would have not done his constitutional duty. So these are real issues. And I will tell you, in the research I seen, yes, inflation is an important issue. Health care, by the way, a place where Democrats have a large advantage is an important issue. Foreign policy, immigration. But the notion of basically the person who gets the most vote shouldn't win. If you think about the swing voters, and when I say swing voters, this election is a little bit different. You've got the traditional suburban women who are swing voters. You've got some exervid men and women that are swing voters a little bit older. You also have swing voters who are in their twenties and early thirties who are of color. But that is something that's problematic. So I think what Biden has to do and the Democrats have to do is, you know, be within bounds. But listen, one thing that has struck me just as an observer of information for the last couple of decades is how quickly these major events, and they're important, and they still, you know, deserve a lot of coverage. And obviously, we want to know exactly what happened with the shooter. You know, I'm not sure by this weekend is Donald Trump going to be out there, you know, basically giving a peace and love speech? I highly doubt it. So I think this election will remain spirited. I hope everybody who's got a microphone, particularly elected officials in those seeking office, take a beat to say, okay, we can disagree about issues without perhaps maligning people's motives to the extent that might have been the case pre Saturday.

But I think this is going to be a fierce debate. And I do think what worries me, you're right. JD Vance, I think, is a talented communicator, obviously a very good writer. I do think that he is now the heir apparent to Donald Trump. Things he has said about the constitution, about abiding by election results, I think are deeply concerning, not just to people like me, but to voters. So that'll be interesting. But I would just say this. As a practitioner, the vice presidential candidate really matters very, very little unless you make a massive mistake.

It's the thing that the media, right, left, center, spends a lot of time on, and it's incredibly important from the governing standpoint. And by the way, Donald Trump's 78, so it could be from an actuarial standpoint, his nominee, JD Vance, becomes president. So it's important to kick the tires. But in terms of the campaign, it's very much about the two contenders at the top of the ticket, in this case, actually more than two, because you've got third party candidates. And I would just say that's Megan, which is what's the win number in the state? You mentioned Pennsylvania, Michigan, it's not going to be 50.

And that's what concerns me as a Democrat, is if Trump really is at 47, 48, 49, that could be enough to win. So Joe Biden has to get him back down to 44 to 46 to have a chance of winning.

Megyn Kelly
But that's such a, but, Hogan, the thing is, is, and he, look, there's no question Trump has said incendiary things, too, and his supporters have, too. But Trump is the one who got shot in the face. You know, I mean, that's just the reality of the situation.

And as we go forward now, you know, Joe Biden says he's going to be kinder and gentler and all that, or lower the temperature. But it was literally days before the assassination attempt that he was out there calling Trump a racist. Sorry, rapist. Rapist, sure. He's called him a racist, too, but rapist, that, which is about as incendiary as one can get. So I do still think, think he's not going to get away with that. Like there, there will be media calling some attention to him going to places like that.

Amber Rose
I sure hope so because they haven't in the past. Listen, Milquetoast, Mitt Romney, Joe Biden said, would put black people back in chains. He said Mitt Romney was going to re enslave black people. So this guy is not some, you know, soft handed, genteel gentleman. He is a tough, bare knuckle political brawler and says stuff all the time. Quite frankly, that isn't true. You just talked about this show in the clip from Lester where he says, now, basically, look, Trump, he's Hitler, he's a racist. Charlottesville, he said there's going to be a bloodbath. There's going to be fighting. He incited a riot. But we need to bring the temperature down, guys, you just did it. Had he said, listen, everyone needs to bring the temperature down, starting with me. I'm going to do it. I'm going to be the leader here. On top of that, I'm going to make sure the president of the United States, former President Donald Trump, has a lot of secret service. I'm going to make sure JFK has it as well. It would be more.

RFK. RFK, correct. It would be more, it would be better for the american people to see that kind of Joe Biden, but that's not who he is. And the left has a real problem here, because for so long, they've been saying, Donald Trump, Republicans, we're a threat to democracy, we're Hitler, we're racist, all these things. But now, if Joe Biden is going to abide by his own standard, which is bringing down the rhetoric, what does he have to run on? All he does is go around saying that the right is full of racists that are threats to our very democracy.

Megyn Kelly
If he's going to lower the temperature, he's got to be the Larry Hagman he's got in primary colors. Like, you actually have to go out there and have the measured tone and be, you know, and this is all ignoring the thing that, you know, I think many of us can't get past. And it's not just that Joe Biden is old, it's that he does not appear to be all there. He cannot put two sentences together, whether you see it every time. It's like, oh, look, watching the tightrope walker.

This is scary. There was another moment with Lester just last night. I'll play it. It's short.

Lester Holt
What happens if you have another episode like we saw during the debate?

What happens if I know that. What happens if you have another performance on that par, on that level?

You don't plan ahead of us?

Megyn Kelly
All right.

I tell you, my heart goes out to Lester. So awkward, uncomfortable. Happens every day when he sits, right? So there's Stephanie Stephanopoulos or Lester or these other interviews. He gave one to another gentleman. There was a very awkward exchange about Zionism. We could go on, although we can't right this second because we have to take a break. All right, we'll be right back. Hogan and David, stay with us for the remainder of the show. Do you ever think, how can I work this hard and still be in debt? The piles of overdue bills, the threatening phone calls, never having money to do anything. If you are trapped in debt, done with debt can be a way out. They have developed aggressive new strategies to end your debt permanently. Done with. Debt stands between you and the harassing, annoying bill collectors who wants to deal with them. They tirelessly negotiate with your creditors to lower or even forgive what you may owe. And they do it all without bankruptcy or new loans. Loans. One client said one phone call saved us a fortune. I only wish we'd done this long ago.

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Amber Rose
Go to siriusxm.com mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com mkshow and get three months free. Offer details apply.

Megyn Kelly
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Lester Holt
Happy birthday.

Check, make a wish.

Megyn Kelly
Cash.

Amber Rose
Don't miss Trump next time.

Megyn Kelly
Speaking of divisive rhetoric, that was a big example yesterday when that video went viral. People believed, and we said that it was actor Jack Black. Turns out black wasn't the one who made the actual comment. Don't miss next time. He was standing next to a bandmate who said that that and that bandmate was a guy by the name of Kyle gas. In response to the controversy, and you can hear black did not fix or attempt to in the moment. Black released a statement after the fact, reading in part, I was blindsided by what was said. I would never condone hate speech or encourage political violence in any form. Mister Black then said he's made the decision to put the band's upcoming tour on hold. Good call. Back with me now. Hogan Gidley and David Plouffe. You know, you spend two minutes on tick tock or insta or whatever, and you're gonna see a lot of people saying exactly what that bandmate said. Why'd you miss, take, take better shooting lessons? You know, it's just, it's so disheartening. It's kind of depressing, to be honest.

There is something interesting happening in the media, though, over at MSNBC. And Hogan, I wanted to start with you on this one. So Joe Scarborough show was pulled yesterday morning, and NBC had told Scarborough and the world that that was because they were going to stay in rolling breaking news coverage, which is the thing you do. We used to call it Rolling Thunder over at Fox News. You just stay in Rolling Thunder where there's breaking news and, you know, all bets are off on what the previously scheduled programs were. And they claimed that Scarborough had agreed to it, along with his wife and co host Mika. Now, today we hear something very different, because what happened after Scarborough was they went back to their normal lineup, which, you know, makes clear they pulled just morning Joe and for a reason. And here was an extraordinary moment on his show this morning.

We were told in no uncertain terms.

Allmodern
On Sunday evening that there was going.

Megyn Kelly
To be one news feed across all NBC News channels. Yesterday, the Today show would be Lester Holt, other people you worked with on Sunday, and that that was going to be one news feed across all NBC News channels.

Lester Holt
That did not happen.

Megyn Kelly
We don't know why that was. That didn't happen.

Our team was not given a good answer as to why that didn't happen.

Lester Holt
But it didn't happen.

Megyn Kelly
We were very surprised.

Lester Holt
We were very disappointed.

Megyn Kelly
And if we had known that there.

Dr. Horton
Wasn'T going to be the one news.

Megyn Kelly
Feed from NBC News across all NBC.

Lester Holt
News channels, Willie, we obviously would have.

Megyn Kelly
Been in yesterday morning.

Allmodern
Let me just say we, next time.

Lester Holt
We'Re told there's going to be a news feed replacing us, we will be in our chair.

Megyn Kelly
We'll be sitting here.

Allmodern
Yeah, and the news feed will be us.

Megyn Kelly
Or they can get somebody else to host the show.

I have secondhand embarrassment for how awkward that was AF, as the kids would say. So, Hogan, what do you make of MSNBC basically admitting they've got host on in the morning who is so incendiary he can't be trusted to take air the day, a day and a half after a presidential assassination attempt and following.

Amber Rose
Of course, the Ronald McDaniel debacle as well. This is not obviously a good look for MSNBC. And what you're hearing kind of is that peak behind the curtain where, why did they really do this? And then all these kind of leaks start coming out that they were afraid someone on that set was going to say something about that assassination attempt that would make it appear as though the network or morning Joe itself condoned an assassination. That tells you a lot about what you need to know as it relates to the mainstream media, and it also tells you a lot as it relates to bringing down that rhetoric that Joe Biden is talking about. And while both sides are going to say, no, you do it. No, you do it. There are problems in the media. There are problems with politicians who make claims all the time that are way over the top and that obviously bring the temperature to a point that is set to boil over at any moment. But this particular instance, I think, at MSNBC, kind of encapsulates so many of the complaints on our side of the aisle that say, wait, in a time where a former president was almost shot through the head and killed on national television, you chose to pull your number one rated show because you were afraid the cat would be let out of the bag. I think it's a really bad look, and I think it is a very impactful, important statement about the overall, overall tone and tenor of the mainstream media.

Megyn Kelly
David Plouffe, if Joe Scarborough really does walk from that role, they should hire you tomorrow. Who's, who could do that show in his sleep, honestly, and with insightful analysis from somebody who's actually been in the business of getting presidents elected, I think we should all call their bluff and then you should slide right in.

Dr. Horton
Well, that's kind, Megan. I'd have to get up too early and listen. That's a great point. I'm an MSNBC, MSNBC contributor. I don't have any visibility into the decision, by the way, a decision to say, we're just gonna have one feed. You know, I could support that. Right? You kind of want to have we.

Megyn Kelly
Do it sometimes, right?

Dr. Horton
You do it sometimes. It's people who are, you know, you know, have good sources in law enforcement, and you've got people on the ground in Pennsylvania. So I think the challenge here was, of course, it wasn't one feet, it was just one program. And perhaps that they changed their mind as the day went on that wasn't communicated. But you've got to trust your talent. That's something I learned in any kind of organization. You got to trust your talent. I will say this back to our previous discussion about civility and what's in bounds like as a political practitioner. I think what the Trump campaign likely will do is very transparent to me. Very cynical, which is they want to silence arguments against Trump because in the research I've seen, they heard him. Project 2025 is interesting, by the way, Donald Trump, Trump, I mean, Hogan knows him well, doesn't tend to run away from things. He's running away from that, like Hussein Bolt, because he realizes the elements of it, which I think will make up the blueprint for the Trump second term, you know, are very, very anathema to voters. I think, you know, his position on health care, getting rid of the Affordable Care Act, 20 million plus people losing health care, there's real challenges now. Those tend to be issues, I do think, you know, respecting the results of election. That's not something we should shy away from talking, even post assassination attempt. But I think you'll see that in every effort from the Trump campaign and other voices to say, hey, you shouldn't be criticizing this guy.

And again, my guess is we'll see what Trump's speech is Thursday. By the way, if Trump, I'd be curious, you know, Hogan, your view on this, like, if Trump were to say Thursday night, listen, I've reflected on this. I can't believe I lost to Joe Biden. I still can't believe it. But you know what? He won the election. That's why I'm running to defeat him. I think I'll defeat him.

What that would do is swing voters. And listen, Trump has the base. He can say anything.

Megyn Kelly
That's not going to happen.

Dr. Horton
I know.

Megyn Kelly
Hogan, do you disagree with me?

He doesn't disagree with me.

Dr. Horton
Practitioner. Of course he's not. But he should. Because if you're.

Megyn Kelly
Of course, but we've all been saying things about Trump should for eight, nine years. He doesn't listen to us. Speaker one.

Dr. Horton
But my point is, Megan, if you're in a window where you might have a permission structure with voters that previously weren't available to you, okay. When I used to run, I get it.

Megyn Kelly
I get it. But if he were in that state of mind, we'd be talking about vice presidential candidate Glenn Youngkin, Nikki Haley or Doug Bergam. He's definitely not, I think, right in that state of mind. Sorry to rush you up, but I want to play the sound bite. We just got it on tape. Charlie Kirk referenced it earlier. And the head of the secret service, Kim Cheadle, did give an interview to ABC in which he did make a remarkable explanation for why they didn't have snipers on the rooftop that was right there, 150 yards or less away from Trump. Listen to the sloped roof. Excuse the roof have been secure, period. That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point.

And so, you know, there's a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn't want to put somebody up on a sloped roof. And so, you know, the decision was made to secure the building from inside.

I mean, oh, my God, that's just, like, that's why we're going to have weeks and months of hearings now. Like, I don't.

I. There are many people who think that this was a conscious decision. Secret Service, somebody hated Trump. I am not one of those people. But that level of incompetence is why people are scratching their heads. They don't understand that.

Amber Rose
Well, I worked with the men and women of the Secret Service for years in the White House, as you know, and more brave people. I mean, I was humbled by their performance every single day. When someone stormed the treasury, they came in and got staff, too. I mean, they're everywhere all the time. But there's no question this is a systemic failure by the Secret Service at this point. If there aren't some serious questions asked by journalists, if there aren't some serious questions asked by Joe Biden, his FBI and others, I don't know that we're ever going to get to the bottom of this. But I can say what's interesting was as soon as this happened, I thought to myself, it didn't seem right to me right off the bat. And typically, in years past, I would even say pre Trump, this thing may have gone on for months without anyone really offering too many questions. Substantively, within minutes, people were like, now, hold on a second. How does this happen? Why was the guy this close? How come these other people with the video we shot, these other snipers, looked like they had the guy in his sights, but they let him fire the gun? All of these things kind of come up and they bubble to the surface. And it really does go to kind of a bigger concern that this rhetoric is really hot and this does boil over in these ways. An attempt of an assassination on a political person is so unforgivable in today's world. You cannot do that. To watch Donald Trump, though, go down, stand up with blood on his face and put his fist in the air and yell, fight, fight.

To let the american people know he was okay. That is going to be a statue. That is going to be a t shirt. That is going to be a poster. That, to me, is one of the most iconic images this country seen, really, since George Bush took that megaphone at 911 saying, the whole country hears you and the world's going to hear us soon. The people who tore these buildings down, really, really impactful.

Megyn Kelly
Thank God he was okay. Only wish we could say the same attendees and a prayer to those who are still suffering. I got apologies, guys. I'm up against a clock. All the best to you both. Hogan, great to see you again. David, please come back and we'll see you soon.

Milwaukee ourselves tomorrow on the show. We've got ruthless, we've got Vivek Ramaswamy, and we've got Elise Stefanik. The fun begins in Milwaukee.

Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No B's, no agenda and no fear.

Megyn Kelly
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Trump's Compelling VP Pick of J.D. Vance, and Biden Refuses to Lower the Temperature, with Charlie Kirk, Hogan Gidley, and David Plouffe | Ep. 839

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1: Introduction

2: J.D. Vance's Background

3: Biden's Interview Analysis

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