Military-Industrial Complex - From Bush to Biden | Shawn Ryan x Megyn Kelly

Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show. On Memorial Day, we remember and honor the men and women who have died while in military service.

Every year, we welcome a military veteran here on this show to share their story. And today I'm very excited to talk to Shawn Ryan for the very first time. Sean's a former US Navy Seal and CIA contractor with 14 years of service spanning multiple combat operations. He is also the host of the hugely popular the Sean Ryan show where he has an audience of millions on YouTube, podcast platforms, and more. This is where he goes in depth, and I mean in depth, with a host of guests for fascinating conversations on a whole range of subjects. Sean developed the show to document the untold stories of war, loss and redemption, and he does that in much, much more. Glad to welcome him here in person for this special episode. Sean, welcome.

Shawn Ryan
Thank you for having me.

Megyn Kelly
Thank you for your service. To kick it off.

Shawn Ryan
Oh, thank you for saying that. I appreciate that.

Megyn Kelly
No, I appreciate it, too. It's hard on Memorial Day because it's a solemn day. Right. But people are out there trying to get their big tv.

I understand that.

Shawn Ryan
Right.

Megyn Kelly
People are like, they work hard and they. But you got to take a moment or an hour or two just to stop and think about why you have the freedom to shop where you want and wear what you want and say what you want and do what you want. And that boils down to you guys, you and the friends you've lost.

Shawn Ryan
Well, thank you.

Megyn Kelly
So let's talk about you and your background and how you wound up a navy seal, because it takes a certain kind of person. I know this from my many interviews of seals over the years. It's not like you're not normal people. I think that's fair to say. Am I wrong?

Shawn Ryan
I think that's fair to say.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. And so when, tell us what you were like as a child, because there are always some signs of a future navy SeaL in there, whether it's a rebellious kid or a leader or obsessive about something.

Jaco said his parents wouldn't let him quit anything. Like if he took up knitting, they wouldn't let him quit knitting. So looking back at your own childhood, were there signs of the future you there?

Shawn Ryan
There probably were. I was definitely very rebellious.

Not a great student, not a great listener, very creative, and just not very academic at all.

So the teams, the SEAL teams were kind of came on my radar.

I don't remember exactly, but I was always infatuated with the military.

When I was growing up, the Gulf war was going on, and I remember picking up all the magazines and all that stuff and just, and just looking at all the pictures, really, into Gi Joe's, and, and it got to the point where when I got to high school, I just, like I said, I wasn't an academics guide, and I didn't, I wasn't interested in school, and I definitely wasn't going to do well in, in college, so.

So I decided to look into the military alternatives.

Megyn Kelly
Did you come from a military family?

Shawn Ryan
Not exactly. I mean, my dad did serve. He was a pharmacist in the army, so definitely totally different role, you know, different direction. Had no interest in the medical field at all. So.

So I started looking at the marine corps.

I wanted to be a recon guy. They wouldn't let me in. Uh, went to the army, wanted to be a green beret, wouldn't let me in. And, uh, the navy recruiter kind of stuck his head out and asked if I'd ever heard of the seal teams, and I hadn't at the time. So he gave me, you know, endless material to pick through. And so I did that, uh, very fast, and, and when I realized what it was, it just captivated me.

Megyn Kelly
So how does a guy who's not, you know, devoted to his academics, which does require the kind of tenacity and hard work you put in to become a seal, find it in order to go through bud's training and actually perform that elite level as soldier?

Shawn Ryan
I mean, I don't. It's just the only thing that caught my interest, you know? And so nothing really in school caught my interest, and I didn't. I never really felt challenged, I don't think. And so, I mean, there was a multitude of things.

I wasn't the top performer out of my three siblings in sports or in academics.

Megyn Kelly
Where are you in the birth order?

Shawn Ryan
I'm first.

Megyn Kelly
And where'd you grow up?

Shawn Ryan
I grew up. We moved around a lot, but primarily Missouri.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, keep going.

Shawn Ryan
You're first born? Yeah. Yeah, first born.

And so I got in there, and, I mean, long story short, maybe we'll dive in. But I just wanted to do something. One, I wanted to serve my country, and I wanted to finally give my parents a reason to be proud of me, and so that kind of carried me through.

Megyn Kelly
And were they, like, when you signed up at first? Were they, what year would that have been?

Shawn Ryan
That would have been 2000. 2000. No, wait. When I signed up. It was 2001.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. Right. It was before 911.

Shawn Ryan
It was right before 911. I went to the Navy to boot camp in July of 2001.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, my gosh. Little did you know what was about to happen to the country, the world, and you.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So were your parents proud when you signed up? Were they?

Shawn Ryan
I think they were definitely worried. It surprised them. Kind of came out of left field, and so. But once they wrapped their head around it and saw that I was. I seemed to be serious, they fully supported it.

Megyn Kelly
See, that's how I feel. I would love for. I'll be sexist, my boys to serve, but I'd be terrified if they actually said they were gonna do it. I'd be in church every day, praying to God, lighting every candle in the church. You know, I can see what your parents went through, and I'm sure most parents go through that, especially if it's not a lifelong military family.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Yeah, I would, too. I have two little ones now, so I get it.

Megyn Kelly
And, you know, especially if you're looking at your kid, and so far, he's been kind of a knucklehead.

I don't think this kid should have a gun. I don't. Not sure how this is gonna go.

Shawn Ryan
Very true.

Megyn Kelly
So there had to be some concerns there. And what, just out of curiosity, what did your siblings wind up doing?

Shawn Ryan
My brother is in hospitality, and my sister has her.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, so they did not. They did not. They were not tempted to follow you down this road?

Shawn Ryan
No.

Megyn Kelly
All right, so you decide to join up for military service. And not just any military service. Not just, like, I don't know, the regular infantry with the army, you decide to go for Navy SEALs. So inside there's an overachiever just waiting to be born. And did you know anything about how hard that was gonna be?

Shawn Ryan
I did. Once I started researching it, I just. I didn't care. I was just.

I was going to do it, and I felt great all the way up until I arrived at student training.

Megyn Kelly
In my mind, I was amazing right up until I started.

Shawn Ryan
Exactly. And, I mean, when I got there, I was 18 and barely a man. And when I got there, there were guys that. There were olympic athletes. There were guys that had already been to war and come back, guys that had been to Panama, guys that have been to Iraq. It was. It was championship boxers, and. And I was probably about a buck.

Buck 30.

Megyn Kelly
So now is this why I read you got. You got laughed out of the. One of the recruiting offices?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, that would be. That would be the army and the Marine Corps.

Megyn Kelly
The army. Okay. The Marine Corps told you no. Hard no. This is a common story. I've heard this from a few of our navy sailboats that they got laughed at when they tried to sign up. What is it with the army? Are the Marines just like I think.

Shawn Ryan
I mean, it's just, you know, it's pretty ambitious to walk in and say, hey, I want to, I want to operate at the top level right away.

And they're kind of like, okay, guy, pump the brakes. Maybe do infantry go the long route? And I just, I had no interest in going the long route. I didn't want to do regular infantry. There's nothing wrong with that. But I just wanted, I wanted the challenge.

Megyn Kelly
Do you remember back in those early days when you were first starting to train? What jumped out at you amongst the guys who surrounded you? Were there commonalities in this pocket of the world that were immediately noticeable as different?

Shawn Ryan
Once I got to buds or even.

Megyn Kelly
When you just first signed up and started training? Cause you didn't go right to buds training, right. Don't you do normal training before you.

Shawn Ryan
Do normal training before? I mean, I grew up in a town of 6000 people, so there wasn't that many people that wanted, that wanted to do this.

I remember the first time I met, they called him a seal motivator.

He was kind of a guy that would go around, I don't know, the country who was a SEAL. And then now he's, he's teaching you how to swim and kind of refining some of your techniques with running and swimming and, and some things that you might expect.

And he had, he just carried himself different than, than anybody else I'd been around before.

So it, there's, there's definitely a type. Mm hmm.

Megyn Kelly
Now knowing what you know, is that, does that come from combat or just the grueling nature of seal training? Like, guys who are going through it today, can they get that without actually going into combat like you have?

Shawn Ryan
Oh, I think so. I mean, I do believe that.

Megyn Kelly
So the Navy will get it into you.

Shawn Ryan
They will. They'll figure out a way.

Megyn Kelly
I'm thrilled and impressed and want to do it. And a secret version of myself would love to try this. I don't think I can. I can't really even make it through ten minutes of jumping jacks in my HIIT class. But in my mind, this could happen for me someday. And we've had lots of tough guys come on here and talk about how the toughest guys they knew didn't make it through training just couldn't make it through. It's just a mind over matter kind of situation. But you're telling me you didn't have anything in your past that told you you could put mind over matter and accomplish this ambition?

Shawn Ryan
No, I didn't. I didn't. And so it was, I mean, I was an 18 year old kid at buds, and it was, it was, I mean, it's scary to see who quits, you know? I mean, you're seeing people that you look up to, people that, I mean, you're constantly measuring up to somebody else and comparing yourself to somebody else and going, oh, you know, if that guy, if that guy didn't make it, I don't, I don't think I have a chance. And so you just put your head down and drive on and try to make it to the next meal, try to make it to the next day and just keep driving on.

And it got to the point where I wanted to quit, but I could not face calling my parents and tell them that I had failed again.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, wow.

Yeah. I've had guys say there was no way I was going to see my father's name on that hat and ring that bell.

Shawn Ryan
Nope, not me.

Megyn Kelly
So you talked a little bit about your upbringing. Was it a modest upbringing? Like, what kind of childhood did you have?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, I mean, I would say upper middle class upbringing and small town. We moved around a lot, probably moved over ten times in my childhood, but we finally settled in Missouri in a small farm town known as Chillicothe, Missouri, and hadn't been back there in several years. But, but I was, I liked full contact sports, tried football was too small, couldn't make it. Got into wrestling, was a mediocre wrestler. Nothing, nothing. No state championships or anything like that. Just kind of an average kid, troublemaker, really into booze and partying and.

Yeah, I mean, that was my childhood.

Megyn Kelly
Did you have strict parents?

Shawn Ryan
They tried to be strict, but managed.

Megyn Kelly
To find ways around it.

That was the future CAA contractor. That's the foundation was being laid. Little did they know. This is important research for you.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, good point. Good point. But, yeah, I mean, they were definitely against a lot of the things that I was doing. They were not happy that I was drinking. They were not happy with some of the crowd that I was running around with. They were not happy with my grades. And, yeah, you know, like I said, when it came time to make some decisions on what I'm going to do with my future, I had to take a hard look.

And so I went the military route.

Megyn Kelly
Was just talking to Riley Gaines not long ago, she was talking about how, you know, she's this competitive swimmer, and now she's an activist on the trans insanity that's happening to women. And she was talking about how her dad put her in the pool one time and just made her be in that pool for some eight to ten minutes, freezing cold. It was not a summer pool. He pulled off the COVID during the winter, made her get in, and it was an exercise in mental toughness. You know, just to like, you're not cold. You got to get. That's you guys.

You do that every day during seal training. When you're a seal, it's horrid and it is somewhat tortuous, from what I've heard. So when you finally see yourself in those situations, how do you say, I'm not quitting? How do you get through? How do you get from minute ten to minute eleven to minute twelve?

Shawn Ryan
I mean, it.

You just have to dig deep. I mean, it's not. It's not. It is very physical, but it's more mental. And so everybody. Everybody in training is going to break. They're just. It's going to happen. And it just. You get to this point where you go numb, you get to this point where you go numb, and. And then it just doesn't matter anymore. Nobody. Nobody really quits after. I think Wednesday night is the day where it's very, very rare for anybody to quit, but it's just. It's breaking time down. And instead of going, I'm gonna make it through this entire six months. It's. I'm gonna make it to hell week. And then when you get to hell week, it's, I'm just gonna make it to the next meal, or I'm gonna make it to the next med check. And by Wednesday night, I mean, you haven't slept.

Megyn Kelly
Remind me of when it starts.

Shawn Ryan
It starts. I think it starts on Sunday night, and I believe it's done Friday night.

Megyn Kelly
Okay.

Shawn Ryan
It's five days with minimal sleep, but your muscles break down. You get, what do they call it? Elephantitis? Your ankle starts swelling up.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, I had that when I was pregnant.

Shawn Ryan
Oh, really?

Megyn Kelly
No, I mean, it just happens naturally.

Everything swells up.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

But it's just.

It's doing those little time hacks and just breaking it down and making it to the next meal, making it to the next med check, checking your buddies. By Wednesday, you know, it's a pretty tight group. Everybody's pretty much gone, and you kind of just go into maybe this flow state you know, and you're just. You're just moving.

Megyn Kelly
So, yeah, it sounds kind of transcendent in a way.

So then you have to actually be a Navy SeAL, which is no easier. And especially when you complete your training in July of 2001, all hell breaks loose in the country and the world.

And how many combat deployments did you.

Shawn Ryan
Have with the SEAL teams? I had two combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Yep.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. And two different SEAL teams.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. So there was. So when I got into the SEAL teams, it was around 2003, and the first deployment, we went to Germany, which was a really boring deployment. And then we went to Afghanistan in the late summer of zero five, I believe.

Megyn Kelly
And how long were you there?

Shawn Ryan
We were only there for three months. So it was right after Red Wings happened. Are you familiar with red wings, the lone survivor?

Megyn Kelly
Oh, yeah, of course, yes. I've had Marcus on. He's amazing.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. So we relieved them after that happened. That was the biggest SEAL team, the biggest loss in SEAL team history at the time.

And it was the SOCOM was doing the surge where they needed more guys, and so they sped up the deployment cycle. So I went from SEAL teammate to SEAL team two, did my Afghanistan deployment with SEAL team two.

We didn't do a whole lot there.

There was a lot of political stuff going on after that operation.

And to be 100% honest, I was really dissatisfied. I went to the teams to go to war and to fight for the country, and I wasn't getting enough. I think we did one direct action that entire deployment, took a couple of prisoners, no shots fired.

And then we got our admiral, pulled us out of the country. And so at that point, I kind of made a decision.

For me, this wasn't what I had expected. And so I told my leadership, I said, hey, this is going to be my last pump. I'm not doing another one. I'd like to finish my enlistment out on deployment. So we had a sister platoon that was in Baghdad that was running a lot of sniper operations.

And so I volunteered to go there, and they threw my name in the hat and I got lucky.

Megyn Kelly
And what, volunteered to go to Baghdad?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, in 2000, that would have been 2000 late zero five or six.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, the worst absolute time to be in Baghdad for anybody who's not ready to fight and kill and risk their life, I mean, that was just a devastating time. I remember just as a journalist covering those years, and that's when all the beheading started. And it was bad. It was about as bad as it could be.

I mean, it's amazing. Again, it being Memorial Day, I have to think about guys like you who volunteer to go into it. The guys who volunteered to go into the buildings on 911 at great risk to themselves and then their brothers in arms, in a way, who volunteered to go into the fire in a different way a couple years after that.

Shawn Ryan
We all have a lot to be thankful for.

Megyn Kelly
So how long were you there?

Shawn Ryan
I was in Baghdad for about four months. And so we got there.

The operational tempo was pretty slow at first. There was an election going on, if I remember.

And then we were on the hook to do protection for the iraqi government officials, and nothing was happening. So we wound up the lieutenant threw our name in the hat to just help conventional units who were getting blown up on their reconnaissance routes, supply routes, whatever the routes were. I mean, they had these bombs called efps over there, which were, I don't know if you remember, maybe you covered this, but they would basically put them on the side of the road, and they could be triggered by ir lasers, so they would pick up heat sensitivity to engine blocks, and they had the timing down perfectly to where the projectile would go through the passenger or driver side door of the Humvees and basically would vaporize everything in the vehicle. And you'd just get sucked out of a little hole on the back end.

And so that was chewing a lot of our guys up. And we just got tired of seeing these conventional guys just get crushed by these efps. And so we started attaching ourselves to these conventional units that didn't have the knowledge or know how on how to kind of combat this, set up a targeting package to get these guys. And so what we would do is we would get in with them, in bed with them, train them for a couple of weeks, bring them out, teach them how to set up sniper hides, teach them how to do a targeting package, teach them how to conduct surveillance, teach them how to start running assets within the local population to try to figure out who's doing this and teach them how to shoot, taught them everything, gave them a lot of stuff.

Kind of like took these guys under our wings, and then we would take them out on operations. And so we would go out, find all the places they were getting hit, and set up sniper teams along all of those different routes, all those points of interest. And we would take. Each sniper observation team would take maybe one or two conventional guys with them on the actual operation.

And we started killing bad guys, started.

Megyn Kelly
Turning things the other way.

You must have lost a lot of friends.

Every guy who serves does and you're one of the lucky ones. If nothing happens to you to take a limb or a traumatic brain injury as you're going through it, there's no time to deal with any of that. Right. It's just forward, like we talked about in the training, just forward. There's no time to think about that stuff. But you're in active combat situations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and eventually that stops. Right.

And is it at that point that you have to deal with that, or is it later? Because I know then comes the CIA stint.

Shawn Ryan
It's a gradual.

It just comes on gradual.

I mean, there's a lot of coping mechanisms that we use and that numbs it out. Booze, pills, sleeping pills, whatever you can kind of do to numb it out. And in the early days, nobody knew any better.

That kind of all came crashing down later on for a lot of guys, and that's what we cover on my show. But it took a while for that stuff to start sinking in, probably well into my contracting career at the agency.

Megyn Kelly
Well, that's the thing. When you have massive crises, especially repeated and ongoing, sustained crises, there's only one way, like, you have to compartmentalize. How could you possibly function if you were dealing with any of it?

You actually are human, despite all appearances, of our seals and our rangers and all those guys.

So was it right after your service interact that you decided to join the agency?

Shawn Ryan
No, honestly, I didn't want to. I never wanted to go back, and I wanted to pursue some type of a career in business, and so I try to. A lot of things, civilian life. I just. I wasn't ready for it yet.

And I decided that I'd missed the brotherhood, the camaraderie, the obnoxiousness of being on a team.

And so I decided I would try to get into a fire academy, and I did.

Wasn't it. Wasn't what? It wasn't.

Megyn Kelly
What do you mean, fire academy?

Shawn Ryan
It's a firefighter.

Megyn Kelly
Firefighter. Okay.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, I wanted to be. I just thought, well, that seems like the next best thing to what I was a part of, and, um, it just wasn't going to work for me. Uh, a lot of family ties, help in the fire service, and I had none.

So I had a friend, and, um, that was in Afghanistan with me, another seal, and he said, hey, uh, I'm working for Blackwater, and I think you should come work with us. And I had seen a lot of the blackwater contractors and heard a lot of the stuff that was going on over there at the time. Some of it was true. Some of it wound up not being true. But I decided while I was over there and I saw how those guys operated, I didn't want to be a part of the contracting career, especially at Blackwater. And so I'd expressed that to him, and he said, this is different. This is a different project. The qualifications all have to be at least six years at special operations or above.

Then there's a month long tryout. I can't tell you who I'm working for, but I think you would really fit in well here. And it's not what you're thinking. It's very high caliber operators working here.

So I threw my name in the hat and took about six months to get a call back, and then I did. And it was just an email that said, hey, be here at this time. Bring this year with you.

And it was a vetting course.

So that was for Blackwater. So I don't know how familiar you are with Blackwater, but Blackwater is a massive organization. Organization.

And they have, so under Blackwater, they have all these different contracts. They have the department of state contract, they have the DEA contract. They have probably all kinds of government contracts. And then the very back of the compound, which Blackwater compound was, I don't know how many thousands of acres is the black sites. And so, uh, you go back there, they don't tell you anything. And, um, you're with, with a group of guys, and you start off with a PT test, and then you do some shooting qualifications. They don't really tell you what the standards are. They're just, it's just, just, here's the time.

Do your best.

And, um, or sometimes when they won't even give you the time. Just hit that target as many times as you can and as fast as possible.

And so you do that, and it's, you know, it's really, you don't know the standard. And that's the biggest stressor is.

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Shawn Ryan
There's nobody.

Megyn Kelly
What's succeeding? What's failing?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, you have no idea. And you don't even know if you passed at the end of the day or not.

And so it's just, I mean, you know, you passed if you're showing up the next day to work to try out.

And so we had made it through the shooting qualifications, and then you go through a lot of kind of situational stuff. They'll put you in these, in these situations. And they wanted to see how you react, how you can lead a team, how you can integrate in with a team all kinds of different scenarios, scenarios that you're never gonna fight your way out of.

Lots of civilians. They would plant lots of, like, role players with simunition rounds, which is basically kind of like a paintball gun, but more realistic.

And they would put you in all these scenarios to see if you could keep your cool under pressure, not shooting any innocent civilians.

It was a protection type gig as well. So a lot of times, they would have, like, some type of an asset that you're. You have to go in and extract. And I made it through that. And then at the very end, there was also driving, surveillance, all kinds of stuff that they wanted to just kind of see how you were in all these different scenarios. And at the end, they give you the brief and say, hey, this is the OGA, other government agency, CIA contract.

And they start looking for dates to go overseas.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. But you don't know for what.

Shawn Ryan
No, you never know.

Megyn Kelly
You just know that you've been selected as this elite kind of service member, and whatever it is, is going to be very high level and complicated and complex. Right. So you're in, but you don't know what you're in for.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Well, that's disconcerting just listening to you. You are cool. You are calm like that. That probably really helped you. I mean, I was just thinking, who do I know who's kind of more on the hysterical end? I don't know her, but she's the only one who came to mind. Somebody like a Bethany Frankel, the former real housewife. I know that's a bizarre compare, but, I mean, she's tightly wound, Shawn. She's, like, always, like, everything is up here, right? And you're just the opposite of that. Just kind of a cool cat, like a low blood pressure kind of guy.

Shawn Ryan
Well, I mean, when you're in a job like that, and I'm sure you can relate being on tv and with the career that you've had, but, I mean, it's so.

It gets to be so high stress every day. You're being judged, you're being graded. It's. Do you have what it takes to be a part of this team? You know, from the. From seal training through the teams, the six years that I was there, to CIA or Blackwater training for the subcontractor of CIA contractor? I mean, it's just, you have to get to the point where you can, you know, blow that stuff off. And. And that. That came to me in the teams. It.

I was constantly just.

It was just stress all the time. Do I deserve to be here. Am I gonna get kicked out this week?

You know, what does my team think of me? I'm a new guy, and you have to. And that stuff can hinder your performance.

And so, you know, the most stressful thing you can do, at least for me as an operator, is when you're doing the kill house, which is. Which is entering buildings, saving hostages, killing bad guys, all in your face, clearing houses.

Megyn Kelly
Basically, we're talking about real life now, or the training.

Shawn Ryan
We're talking about training and real life. Okay.

But primarily, I guess primarily training. And it gets to the point where if you let this stuff get to you, every house, we call them a house run, where you go through the doors, maybe you blow the doors, maybe you're climbing in a window, maybe you're coming in from the rooftop, doesn't matter. But once you enter that house in training, every move you make is critiqued, and it can make it seem like, and purposely that they're picking on you, that you're not any good, that they don't want you there.

And you just have to get to the point where you can't let that stuff affect you. It just got to the point in the teams where I had hit this mental switch where I don't care anymore. I had, like, tricked myself into thinking, I don't care how this run, this house run ends. I don't care what these guys think of me. I'm just gonna do the best I can do, and that's all I can do.

Megyn Kelly
Do you know the free solo movie and the story about that mountain climber who refused to use any lines and supports and he wound up dying. No, but they talk about these guys who climb these mountains, and they're nuts. They do it with no support.

There's nothing to. And a lot of them do die, but they identify with a lot of these guys that they've lost their ability to get an adrenaline surgeon. And that's actually one of the reasons why they do it the way they do it without all the belts and suspenders.

Can you relate to that at all?

Shawn Ryan
Oh, yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Do you?

Shawn Ryan
Addiction to adrenaline.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And then maybe crossing over to. It's gone. Like, where is it? How can I get it again?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, you find it through. I mean, that's why so many guys honestly wind back up in the contracting arena is especially like these guys, you know, that spend 30 plus years at the SEAL teams or a SF team or delta or wherever, Rangers, Marsoc.

You can't. You. It's never enough. I mean, it's like it's like a heroin addiction. You know, you're constantly looking for the fix, and then it gets so bad that even on your off time, you know, you're looking for it. It's not. You can't take six months and not feel that it is.

It's the pinnacle of your existence at the time.

Megyn Kelly
I can't imagine. You know, just the other night, I was at a dinner party at a friend's house in Connecticut, and it was absolutely lovely. Hostess knew all the right things to do. We had a lovely cocktail hour. We sat down for dinner. There was even some dancing after the fact, which was a successful cocktail party. A dinner party by any measure.

I can't imagine a Sean Ryan having lived the life you've lived, right. Coming back from all of that and even participating in such. I mean, I just feel like your whole life must have been when this was done. Like, what is this? Who are these people? What is.

This is just absolute drivel around me everywhere. None of this matters.

Did you go through that?

Shawn Ryan
Oh, yeah.

It created a lot of anxiety. A lot of anxiety. I had really bad social anxiety when I. When I left the agency. And, uh, I just.

I mean, you are thrown into a world that you thought you knew. And it's just.

It's hard. I mean, it's really hard to relate to anybody who has not lived the kind of life that you've lived. It takes a long time, you know, and it takes a lot of. It takes a lot of self work.

Megyn Kelly
It's like you were on Mars for 14 years, pretty much.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. That's a good way to put it.

Megyn Kelly
Right. And you come back and Earth has changed a lot. You know, now there's an Internet gps and iPhones and social media. So it's like the dramatic changes, a.

Shawn Ryan
Lot of different opinions on what we're doing over there.

Megyn Kelly
So can you help me understand? Because we talked about leaving seal the seals and going to Blackwater and then. But that, and that. Do you count that as CIA time? I don't totally understand.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. So. So I spent a very brief time at Blackwater as well. So I did two deployments, I think, with Blackwater, and.

But you're under. So basically, if you're going to get your house worked on, you're going to use a general contractor, and then he's going to subcontract out the plumbing, the drywall, the air conditioning. So think of Blackwater as the general contractor for the us government.

And so then Department of State says, hey, we need 500 guys in Baghdad to protect all of our state diplomats. Okay, so Blackwater goes, and they. What do you. What kind of guys do you want? What do you want to pay? You know, what qualifications are you looking for? And then they go find those type of people, train them up, put them through a vetting course, and then here's your 500 guys. And so CIA does the same thing. It's, hey, we need. We have this very particular set of skills we're looking for. This is the job description. You guys, you, blackwater, go find these guys for us. So we're basically subcontractors for the agency.

Megyn Kelly
Okay.

Shawn Ryan
Does that make sense?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Why. I don't understand Blackwater that well, but why would they not just go tap the seals or, you know, the Green berets? Or why would they go to Blackwater for any of this?

Shawn Ryan
That's a great question. I wish I could answer that.

And they do. They do go direct. And so later on in my career after blackwater, I wound up.

I had taken a break from blackwater. Then I went to a company called soc, did a couple appointments with them, got kind of tired of the agency stuff for a little bit. So then I jumped on an anti piracy gig back. Do you remember the marisk, alabama?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Shawn Ryan
So after that happened, all these contracts spun up, and it was all right, we need seals on ships to kill pirates that are trying to, you know, kidnap the crew and take over the ship.

Megyn Kelly
Just another day at work.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. And ransom?

Megyn Kelly
No, that's like, rob O'Neill. I told him he's like the Waldo of servicemen. He's everywhere.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Every movie that's ever been made, Rob O'Neill had a role.

Shawn Ryan
He's been on all of the ops. Right, but, yeah, but. So I did that for two deployments, and then the agency got back in touch with me, and then they wanted me to come work direct form for them, uh, as a contractor, but not through any companies.

Megyn Kelly
Okay.

Shawn Ryan
And so.

Megyn Kelly
And now you're actually earning some money.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So that's good.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, more so than you ever got paid by the. By the Navy?

Shawn Ryan
Way more than I got paid for by the Navy.

Megyn Kelly
But can you get rich doing that or not really?

Shawn Ryan
Uh, I mean, I guess it depends on how you invest your money. I mean, at that time, a good rate was about $1,000 a day. Um, so that would be a really. That would be a good rate.

Some guys, a low rate would be about 550 a day. And so, yeah, I mean, it depends on how much you want to deploy.

Megyn Kelly
Where are you sitting?

In between deployments. Are you back here, like, going to the movies and Starbucks?

Shawn Ryan
I spent a lot of time.

Well, I mean, it was 14.

Agency was about a little shy of nine years, and so I would. Man, I would go all over. But towards the end, I started going to Columbia, South America.

Megyn Kelly
This was not a good period in your life.

Shawn Ryan
You know about this?

Megyn Kelly
Nothing good happens in Colombia.

Shawn Ryan
Nothing good does happen in Colombia.

Megyn Kelly
Now, I do know a little bit about your troubles, and that was a rough period for you. Explain why and why Columbia.

Shawn Ryan
Well, originally, I went to Columbia because when I joined the SEAL teams, I had always wanted to go to team four because I wanted to do the counter drug ops. Well, then, you know, 911 kicked off, obviously, and that wasn't a focus at all. And so when I was in the agency, I'd broken up with a girlfriend, and so I decided I wanted to travel, and I'd always.

I was just infatuated. I mean, those were all the documentaries I was watching when I went to the recruiter.

That was the only thing going on at the time was Panama and kind of the counter drug situation down in South America, which a lot of that.

Megyn Kelly
Was in Columbia, since documented in shows like narcos.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

And so I decided I wanted to go check it out down there. And so I. I mean, that's crazy talk.

Megyn Kelly
Just. Just like, as a pin in this, that's crazy talk. Nobody looks at a show like narcos or Panama and says, yes, I want to go there.

All normal people are like, thank God that's down there.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Well, I mean, I went. It was for a number I wanted to see. I just. I wanted to be in a jungle environment, and so I want to check it out. How to a great time. And, uh. And so I kept. I just kept going back, kept going back, kept going back all the way past my time at the agency. But, uh, then it turned into.

Megyn Kelly
We.

Shawn Ryan
Had just kind of spoken about addiction to adrenaline. And so I was going down there doing a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be doing. Cocaine. And.

And.

And then once I left the agency, I kind of started building a network down there. And it just.

It was exciting to me. I was in overseas building my own network. Kind of felt like I was kind of running my own operations.

Megyn Kelly
What kind of operations?

Shawn Ryan
Drug networks. And so I wanted to see how deep into the kind of narcos network I could get myself, and.

Megyn Kelly
But this was not for crime fighting.

Shawn Ryan
No, this was for crime committing, pretty much, yeah. And, um, so I kind of started at street level and built a network out and went to clubs and met people and. And.

And found my guys and started testing cocaine and finding the best stuff, and I found it, and that lasted for a couple years, and I would just bounce.

I mean, it was really. I got a lot of satisfaction out of the adrenaline and just seeing how much I could embed myself into these different cultures. And so then I started flying all over the. All over South America. I started going to Peru and starting to build network there in Dominican Republic and Panama, all over Colombia, all over the country and Costa Rica. And then I started looking up the most dangerous places you could go in the world. And at the time, it was San Pedro Sula, Honduras. So I went there and started.

I didn't get very far there, but that was my life for several years.

Megyn Kelly
Wow. And the project was cocaine, and you would find what would be dealers, people to distribute it.

Shawn Ryan
I would find dealers, and then I would find their dealers, and then I would find where their dealers get their stuff. And I got to a pretty high level.

Megyn Kelly
It's a miracle you weren't killed.

Shawn Ryan
It is a miracle. It was.

I mean, I was. I mean, this is what I do for a living, though, you know? And so that's true.

Megyn Kelly
You had some pretty superior training.

Shawn Ryan
I was. I was pretty good at it and pretty fearless at the time.

Megyn Kelly
So when you're talking to your old Navy SeAL buds or blackwater buds, and you're down there and they're saying, what are you up to? What were you saying?

Shawn Ryan
I would just tell them I've crossed.

Megyn Kelly
Over to the other side.

Shawn Ryan
I wouldn't tell them exactly what I'm doing, but I would. I mean, they knew. Everybody kind of knew, you know, I mean, it just.

I started losing friends.

I know the conversations were like, oh, yeah, I mean, he's down in Columbia, and nobody really hears from him anymore. And I would resurface every once in a while. Sometimes guys would come down to see me. They wouldn't last very long. They'd head back out immediately. And, um.

And, uh, it just.

It got to be very dark. And, uh, you know, I I od down there a couple of times, and.

And I remember one time I woke up, and, uh, it was like, it was mother's day.

And I remember.

I remember calling my mom, and I was all junked out. And I remember after that conversation, it just hit me like a ton of bricks.

And I knew I needed to pull myself out of that. And it kind of, like, went right back to the time when, you know, I told you the only reason I made it through buds was I didn't want to let my parents down. And I sure as hell didn't want my parents to get a notice weeks later that their son had odd on cocaine in a penthouse in Columbia. And who knows how long that would take to even get to them. And so it had painted this picture in my head, and I started seeking help, kind of.

Megyn Kelly
It's a big moment.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Before you begin that path to redemption.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
What got you there? What made you establish residency in Colombia and go all over these countries, the most dangerous countries on earth, to mess with other people's drug rings. My God. Right? It's like playing with plutonium for a living.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
And be so reckless with your life and your well being.

Shawn Ryan
You know, I just.

I just didn't value life anymore. I didn't. I didn't care. I mean, I had expected to.

I had expected to die down there. And then when I got close, I realized there's a lot more to life than this. And so I cleaned it up, and truth be told, I mean, that was kind of an awakening, but I wasn't 100% ready to shut it down. And then I had, you know, I had built quite the network down there, and I got tipped off that the federal police in Columbia were surveilling me. Sure. And people that I was with. And so I hid ie need out of the country.

Megyn Kelly
What's ene'd.

Shawn Ryan
I mean, I just. I abruptly left, and I did kind of a. We call them an SDR, but surveillance detection route, and I wanted to see if they were surveilling me, if I was walking around town.

And so I got rid of everything, cleaned everything up, and went to an Internet cafe, booked myself some tickets to a couple different places, jumped on one, and left the country.

Megyn Kelly
Came back stateside.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Do we extradite to Columbia?

Just asking for a friend.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Yeah.

But, yeah, no, I got out of there and went home. Home to Missouri. Talked to my parents. They knew some.

Megyn Kelly
You told them was really.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. I don't remember telling them anything. And woke up the next day after telling them with a hangover. And my dad was.

I could just tell by the look on his face that I must have spilled, probably just about everything.

Megyn Kelly
What did the look say?

Shawn Ryan
Very concerned and worried. I didn't take it seriously. I didn't think I needed any help, and I just kept at it.

Megyn Kelly
What do you mean, kept at what?

Shawn Ryan
I kept at. I wouldn't put the bottle down.

Wasn't ready to do that. I don't think I could have done that? And then through the career, I mean, you just.

I had mentioned numbing it out, and numbing it out becomes. It's not even a cycle. It's just this.

It's just pills after pills. It's a way of life, you know, it's valium, Xanax, lorazepan, ambient hydrocodeine, oxy, tramadol, what kind of. Whatever you can just wash down to shut the brain down and get some rest.

And so I wasn't doing that.

I wasn't ready to clean that up. I had kind of weaned myself off the coke, and then things just weren't getting better. My life wasn't developing afterwards. And so I started going to therapy, which was talk therapy. Yeah, I started going to talk therapy.

Extremely hesitant. I thought, well, I need to go to somebody. I have to go to somebody that's experienced what I've experienced. I need, like, a Vietnam vet or somebody that has seen action. And I couldn't find anybody. And so I just googled.

I just googled therapist, talked to two or three of them and walked into one, which was very. It was interesting because this was kind of before.

Before anybody really knew about the suicide epidemic, before PTSD and traumatic brain injury and operator syndrome, or whatever they're calling it this week, kind of started getting out there.

And, man, it was. It took me a while to warm up, but it was. I love it.

Megyn Kelly
Male or female?

Shawn Ryan
Female.

Megyn Kelly
Nice.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
I love a female therapist. Mine currently is male. But there was a woman who I googled when I was leaving my first husband. Before there was Doug, there was Dan, with whom I'm still friends, but we did get a divorce. And same thing. I googled this woman, and she totally changed my life. You never know. I mean, you can strike gold, and then there are yellow pages or Google pages as it is now. And I can relate to doing that and having it be a life changer.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, it.

Good for you. I'm happy for you.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, thank you.

Shawn Ryan
So, yeah, interesting enough, she had never talked to a combat vet and wound up. I did my own research and wound up being a pretty staunch liberal, which I probably wouldn't have gone to her.

Megyn Kelly
So you were more conservative going in. I know you're lean right now.

Back then, you were, too.

Shawn Ryan
Yes.

Megyn Kelly
Okay.

Shawn Ryan
Definitely. Probably more so. But I gotta be honest, you know, that woman is like an angel, and I don't care what her political beliefs are.

That woman has saved more special ops guys from suicide than anybody.

Anybody. Than anybody saved in combat than anybody I know? And she still does it to this day. And that was back in probably 2015, 2016 timeframe, and it was me. And when I left the agency, I was also trying to save my best friend's life, who had a terrible heroin addiction. And I talked him into going in to. To meet her. And then I just started telling everybody. And I remember my best friend's name was Gabe, and we gave her a Seal team plaque just to say thank you and. Cause she was helping us out.

She had dubbed her prices down and just an amazing woman. And now you go in there, and her entire office is just plaque after plaque after plaque.

Megyn Kelly
Pretty soon you're gonna see a Trump banner. She's gonna be wearing the maga hat.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, but that would be a sight to see.

But, I mean, you know, the reason I say that is because there are some things that can. That can you. You know, political agendas don't.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Shawn Ryan
They don't get in the way.

Megyn Kelly
Transcendental.

Shawn Ryan
You don't see that very often these days, and I think that's important.

Megyn Kelly
I love that you said that. I feel the same. I have very strong political views on a number of issues, but pretty much 80% of the people around me who I love in my life, the woman who raised me, all my best friends.

My best friends growing up are liberal.

They're not woke, but they're liberal. They're Democrats. So I have tons of love in my heart for all of them, even though they don't vote the way I vote and they don't feel the way I do about the issues that are really important to me. But I don't care.

Those don't have to be the stakes of the relationship.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. It takes a strong person to overcome that these days.

But they're out there.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Do you say her name? Or at least her first name?

Shawn Ryan
Her first name's Amy.

Megyn Kelly
My lady was named Amy. What area of the country was this? Missouri.

Shawn Ryan
Well, no, no, that was. That's South Florida.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. Yeah. My lady was in the Virginia area. Northern Virginia.

Shawn Ryan
Interesting.

Megyn Kelly
Well, we'll talk after.

Shawn Ryan
All right.

Megyn Kelly
Specifics, but same thing.

And I. When you were telling me that story, it reminded me so. You know, we. We have military guys on all the times. I just absolutely respect the hell out of you guys and what you do. And, as I said, would love to raise two little soldiers, but don't really want to for the reasons discussed. And we interviewed Dakota Meyer.

Shawn Ryan
Oh.

Megyn Kelly
And, of course, his story is just. It's incredible. Medal of Honor. Talked about how he was drunk up there when President Bush was penning the medal on him and. Or was Obama. And he talked very openly about how difficult it was for him to come back and miss the guys and miss the adrenaline and just dealing with the trauma of everything he'd seen and done.

And he talked about his own moment of super low and being rescued by an angel.

And we pulled the soundbite, so take a watch.

C
I felt like where I was at in life at that point that, you know, that I just couldn't get my stuff together and I just should fix it, right? Like, the fear I could see in people's eyes, you know, with me, like, I was a monster. It's just like, drinking and just, you know. You know, the thing is, is. And people don't talk about this much.

You know, you don't fight evil with nice people.

And I just remember driving home and I pulled off this highway at my buddy's shop because I knew, you know, I didn't want anybody worried about me, right. So I pulled in, and I knew that he would be in because he comes into work every morning.

And I just. Yeah, I mean, I was. I was gonna do it right there. I stuck it to my head and I squeezed the trigger, and it just, like, it went click. And there was no round in it. And I don't know if, you know, I feel like I know who did it. I don't truly know, though.

Megyn Kelly
But he said he does believe he knows a friend had removed the bullets from the gun.

Shawn Ryan
Wow.

He thinks it was a friend?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Shawn Ryan
Does he know who it was?

Megyn Kelly
He said he thinks he does.

But that's an angel. That's a real life God's angel on this earth.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Looking out for him, you know, she saved him.

And I believe, you know, Amy may have saved you. And maybe my amy saved me. It's like, yes, you kind of have to be a willing participant. But I know you found faith, and I'm also a person of faith. And I do think, like, if you're just open eyed, you can see these angels, like, often all around us. Yeah, they look like mere mortals, but they were sent here for a purpose.

Your therapist goes home at night, and when she looks back at her day to say, what did I do today that really mattered? My God.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Does anybody have a better roster?

Shawn Ryan
Probably not.

Probably not. She's amazing.

Megyn Kelly
And now you're doing it. I mean, that's kind of how you make your living now. Just talking to guys who probably aren't that used to talking about this stuff in, like, a safe place. Right. Somebody who gets it. It's kind of a form of talk therapy, just to sort of be able to speak about it. At least it's a step.

Shawn Ryan
Well, it is. And I think my podcast has done well.

Megyn Kelly
Super well. You're being humble.

Shawn Ryan
But I give Amy a lot of credit to how I interview, because I realized. Yeah, I realized in therapy, and she really didn't say a whole lot. And a lot of times, you just start figuring things out yourself by just getting it out.

And so I realized, you know, and I realized that if you just let somebody talk, then they're just going to keep going nine times out of ten. And.

And.

Yeah. So being in therapy twice a week for three and a half years really helped me as an interviewer.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, right. As an interviewer, too. Right. Just to let people talk and to listen. To listen. It's helpful, too, as opposed to be thinking about your next question. So, when did you find love? Because that seems relatively recent. Right. You got engaged, you got married. Now you have two kids, and including a new daughter. Congrats.

Shawn Ryan
Thank you. Thank you.

Megyn Kelly
So, did you find your wife, your future wife, during all of the Amy time or when.

Shawn Ryan
Yep. Right in the middle of it. I had a. I met my wife on a gun range at a sporting club in Florida.

Megyn Kelly
Not beautiful. That's amazing.

Shawn Ryan
I know, right? And my best friend still to this day, David Rutherford, had a new sniper rifle that he wanted to sight in, and he knew.

He knew somebody that had access to a thousand yard range. And so we went out there. Her dad met us, and my wife's name is Katie. She jumped out of the truck, and that was that.

We shot some guns.

We went to the club restaurant. She gave me some tots, and that was. That was it.

Megyn Kelly
What's tots?

Shawn Ryan
Tater tots.

Megyn Kelly
Big fan.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, me too.

Megyn Kelly
Also, because I haven't had a french fry in three years.

Shawn Ryan
What?

Megyn Kelly
Yes. It was a personal mission. I'm basically a Navy seal, too, in my strength and my ability to say no to the things that are bad for me. No, I decided in June of 2021 they were becoming a problem for me. I'm not gonna lie.

And then I need a swear off. And so I decided to go a year, and now I'm almost three years clean.

Shawn Ryan
Well, congratulations.

Megyn Kelly
But the tot is a back door to the fried potato.

I may not pass, like, a drug test of potato eaters.

Shawn Ryan
Right on.

Megyn Kelly
But it's not even called the same thing. It's called tater tot. It's not even french fry. Anyway, big fan. Cause they allow me to still have my.

Shawn Ryan
They're amazing.

Megyn Kelly
But I'm not as addicted as the french fry. They don't have the same down the rabbit hole quality for me.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. You know, french fries are. It's like a conveyor belt for ketchup.

Megyn Kelly
Yes, totally agree. The only purpose of the tot is to deliver the ketchup.

Right.

Shawn Ryan
I know.

Megyn Kelly
And then somebody will buy, like, the whole foods ketchup. And you're like, ew, what is this?

Shawn Ryan
It ruins the entire meal.

Megyn Kelly
Right? You need the sugar, the preservatives, whatever Heinz does. That's what we need.

Shawn Ryan
That's right, that's right.

Megyn Kelly
All right. So I never realized it could be an aphrodisiac, but I like how Katie rolls.

So she lures you in with the tots and the guns. And you were like, I'm home. When are we getting married?

Shawn Ryan
That's right.

Megyn Kelly
So how long thereafter were you married?

Shawn Ryan
Oh, man. I think it was.

I think it was about a year and a half. So we were in Boca Raton, Florida.

I was definitely a fish out of water in that town. Why? And, you know, there's a lot of.

I grew up in the midwest in a town of 6000 people in a farm town. Now I'm in Boca Raton, Florida. Lots of money.

Megyn Kelly
Super fabulous.

Okay.

Shawn Ryan
Lots of that. And so when me and Katie got serious, it didn't take long. And, you know, Katie's been sober for 15 years, 15 years now. And I was on a path to get.

It was on my radar. And so I had asked her in a couple of questions that really resonated with me. And, you know, there's a lot of fake people in South Florida, at least in my experience. And so with Katie, I remember asking her a question and it was something along the lines of, you know, now that, you know, how do you find real hobbies once you're sober? Because I don't. I had zero hobbies other than boozing. And she had a real answer, and it was just.

That's a great question.

It just takes time. And. But she was engaged in that conversation. And so I knew. I was like, this is a good one. And she's real. And I had not been around a real woman in a long time. And that was, I still remember where it was. It was at a thai restaurant in Fort Lauderdale. And she had told me that. And I was like, the conversation just got it.

I couldn't talk to anybody like that other than my therapist and or anybody that had been through something like that. Like what I was in the middle of. And so, anyways, we got closer, and I knew we were going to get married. I knew I was going to marry her, and I just. I said, I don't want to raise my family in south Florida, so we're gonna have to leave. And so, yeah, we wound up in Tennessee.

Megyn Kelly
Does she have any roots there? Or was it just the flocking to Tennessee that so many conservatives did we.

Shawn Ryan
No roots. No roots. We just packed up and went to Franklin.

Megyn Kelly
At least you went from the one state with no state income tax to another state. No state income tax. New Hampshire is suddenly amongst the crew. That's nice to see here in the northeast.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, I know.

Megyn Kelly
Get rid of theirs.

Shawn Ryan
It looks like it's blown up. We were looking there for a little bit.

Megyn Kelly
Let's go. Connecticut.

Shawn Ryan
That's right.

Megyn Kelly
It's not gonna happen.

Far too blue.

Shawn Ryan
That's all. Good.

Megyn Kelly
On the hobby front, have you considered needlepoint? Or as my good friend describes it, a high class finger sport?

Shawn Ryan
Interesting. I have not.

Megyn Kelly
No.

Shawn Ryan
Are you into needlepoint?

Megyn Kelly
Hell, no. I said, we are too young to be doing that. Get off of the beach immediately with that monstrosity in your hand.

I refuse to sit with you.

So did you find one ever a hobby business? Yeah, I was gonna say it's this. It involves this microphone.

Shawn Ryan
I found business, and that's my hobby. So, yeah. Mike, hobbies. I mean, I don't have time for them.

Megyn Kelly
I don't have hobbies either. If it makes you feel any better.

Shawn Ryan
I love being in my business.

Megyn Kelly
And now you have two kids, and.

Shawn Ryan
I love being with my kids. And so anything outside of that, there's just not much time for.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, no, there really isn't. I mean, I remember we had kids. A good friend of mine said you should tell your friends you just had your kids and that you won't be seeing them for about ten years.

Shawn Ryan
That's right.

Megyn Kelly
And he's like, the true friends will still be there for you when you get there. And the ones who aren't really your true friends, good riddance.

Shawn Ryan
We're figuring that out. We are definitely figuring that out. It's interesting how fast your taste and friends changes.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Shawn Ryan
You know, especially, I don't know how old your kids are, but.

Megyn Kelly
1413 and ten.

Shawn Ryan
Oh, okay. Nice.

I'm looking forward to those ages.

Megyn Kelly
They're great ages. Highly recommend this period of parenthood. It's awesome, really. They're so easy and they're so fun, and they have the best personalities, and they still love us. I just. I think we're in the sweet spot of parenting right now when they're little. I know you've got two littles. It's hard. They're adorable, but it is hard labor.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. We're on potty training right now, but I love every minute of it, you know, I just. It's. It's. It's a tough balance, you know, between work and family, but I always lean more towards family, and, man, it just goes so fast. I'm already realizing that, and I don't want to. You know, I'm glad that I waited until after service for kids, because it sounds like you've listened to at least a couple of my interviews, and, man, you know, I'm just. I'm glad that I never had to put my.

I will never have to put my kids through what that was like, what it turned to be into being gone all the time.

And I'm a lot better now than back then.

Megyn Kelly
And you don't have to live with the regret of having missed it.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Even for a good cause, you know?

Hard to miss it. I've talked to enough people who have made a different choice. You can just hear the regret in their voice and see it on their face, and it's not recapturable once it's gone.

Shawn Ryan
Very true. Very true.

Megyn Kelly
But, you know, I think in Tennessee, you'll do better in instilling values into your kids that reflect your own. Right. That's one of the challenges here in the northeast.

Shawn Ryan
Really? Whoa. Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, these woke schools. We fled our New York City schools because of that. Here in Connecticut, we got it made. We did our homework this time since we were fleeing, and we found two great ones. But it's important, right, because you'll find out when you're. How old is your oldest? Your boy?

Shawn Ryan
Two and a half.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. So you find out when they start to go to school that the schools are. They're your partners. I mean, you need to find a partner. They're the ones who are going to spend the most waking hours with your kids every day.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So if you're not on the same page about how we're raising a boy or how we're raising a girl, how we're creating a good human being and future citizen, you know, current citizen, but, like, you know, responsible citizen, things can go south quickly.

Shawn Ryan
That is a constant topic of discussion at our house, is how we're gonna do that. Are we gonna homeschool? Are we gonna do private school? What are we gonna do? And turns out we live in, like, a homeschool mecca.

Megyn Kelly
That's good.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. So we're looking into possibly doing that.

Megyn Kelly
I love the homeschooling communities. I have a dear friend who's doing that, swears by it. So what does life look like now? You do the podcast, like 25 hours a day. Honestly, how do you do these five hour podcasts, man?

Shawn Ryan
I just.

I just listen, you know, and, you know, I'm.

I get people to open up about things they've never talked about before and go to places that they probably have not been in their mind in years. And you can't do that on a time, on a timeline. You can't. You can't do that in a condensed timeline. And so, you know, my longest one, I think, is 9 hours.

Megyn Kelly
Is that right?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Who is that with this guy, Cody Alford, who was a Marsau guy, but marine, but.

And so, you know, in.

I think the first one I did was right about 2 hours, and.

But then I kept getting longer, and I noticed the more time I spend on, the more time I give them, the more they open up. And what it kind of developed into is, I remember.

I don't remember who the first guy was. It might have been this guy, prime hall. But do you have any idea how many people have been through, like, child trauma, sexual trauma, abusive parents, whatever it is, man, it's like everybody. And so the first time that happened, I was like, all right, I got to start diving more into childhood. And I'll bet 75% of the people that come on have experienced some type of abuse as a child.

And I dig into kind of what's happening today with trafficking and pedophilia and all of that kind of stuff.

And so I think it's really important to dive into the childhood stuff because it gives people that have been abused that are trying to process that still into their adult life, and kids that are going through it right now, I mean, it shows them, like, man, no matter what I'm going through right now, like, I can still find success and find happiness in life. And, you know, there's just not a lot of people doing that right now. And so when somebody goes into their childhood experience and they're gonna get descriptive about it, you know that when they're done and we're done with that section, I always ask for a kid that's in your position right now, looking back, what could you have done? Or what would you advise other kids that are in your position? Or, you know what I'm trying to say? What advice do you have for them.

I mean, it's helping, you know, it's really helping. And then, and then we get into the military stuff, and it's super descriptive, and, you know, and I want it to be, I don't want a condensed format because when I started doing this, I wanted to do it because these guys weren't getting a voice in the media at all.

Megyn Kelly
Yep.

Shawn Ryan
And, and when they did, it was a 32nd blurb. And, you know, so why are we having talking heads in the media documenting what happened over there with a bunch of people that weren't there that thought they knew? And so I wanted to, it kind of started with, I wanted to just document history the way it actually happened with people that were at the events. And so now we've got, you know, just about every major operation that has happened, we got.

Megyn Kelly
I heard the one with, forgive me, I don't remember his name, but the gentleman who lost his arm and his leg in the Afghanistan withdrawal.

Shawn Ryan
Tyler Vargas.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God. And that just, his whole life had been rough with the dad who was a child molester. And it was just, there was a lot in there. And those stories are, they're infuriating, right? Because they're recent and we lived them, and we still have those same leaders who have yet to make any apology for what happened to guys like Tyler. Nothing.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. It's very discouraging. I mean, he's a perfect example, though. You know, he interviewed with Good Morning America for 7 hours.

Megyn Kelly
Did he really?

Shawn Ryan
And they released, I believe he said, 5 seconds of that interview because it made POTUS look so bad. And so I had reached out to him. I wanted to give him the opportunity to get his story out. And he had testified in front of Congress, and, I mean, none of us were getting the actual boots on the ground version of what the hell happened during that withdrawal. And so he came on. We got it out. They tried to censor us, and he had all kinds of actual footage of what was going on, and they kept dinging us, oh, you can't have that in there. You can't have that in there.

YouTube. You know, and it's like, guys, like, this happened.

Megyn Kelly
Like, how dare you censor what happened to a us marine?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, it's like, this is actual footage. This is, a lot of this footage has been, some of it had been in the media, and it's like, guys, you can't. Like, this is what happened. So we yanked all the footage and then put it behind, put the real version behind a paywall, because the most important thing was just to get his story out. And we wound up.

We wound up getting it. Getting it out after several attempts.

Megyn Kelly
But not for nothing. I know this isn't at all why you do this, but in any sane world, you'd be getting an award for that kind of coverage. In any sane world, somebody like you would get recognized with a Peabody for something like that. Not the nonsense that now gets rewarded with Pulitzers and other awards like the Cronkite.

That's actual journalism. Actually getting the story and being unafraid to tell it no matter where it takes you.

Shawn Ryan
Thank you.

Megyn Kelly
We actually pulled a soundbite from that interview. Here he is, Tyler Vargas Andrews, talking about what happened during the attack as we withdrew from Afghanistan.

D
Like ten minutes goes by and just flash and just get hit with this massive wave of pressure. And then I'm like, my eyes. My eyes are closed. My vision's black. And I'm like, slowly coming to my right ear is just like, super high pitched ringing. My left ear is muffled. And I can just hear people screaming in the distance.

And I'm just, like, struggling to open my eyes. Finally can open my eyes. And it was someone else's fucking body part just like, laying in front of me. And the people on the other side of the canal just immediately in front of me just got fucking evaporated. I kept trying to stand up, like, fuck, like, why can't I stand up? And we started taking fucking shots from the neighborhood.

Like, almost immediately after the blast, I tried my fucking hardest to crawl backwards. All I could do was like, put my left arm on the ground. And I'm just like, fuck, like, why is my right arm not working? And I remember lifting it up. It's there, but it's just like, fucking shredded up at the elbow and bloodied. And I'm just fucking red everywhere.

Megyn Kelly
Hmm.

Shawn Ryan
Pretty horrific.

Megyn Kelly
We just got into this recently because President Bidens former press secretary Jen Psaki wrote a book trying to say its not true. He looked at his watch when the bodies came home to Dover.

Its a lie. He looked at his watch several times. Shes still running cover for him in her job as a so called journalist. It's on tape. You can see it repeatedly. There he is in the ceremony over and over, trying to sneak in glances.

And some of the parents of the fallen are very angry still about that. And now about the lies to whitewash it. But this is, no one ever got fired for any of it.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So how are these guys, you know, like, Tyler, feeling about that and about the administration? How it was handled.

Shawn Ryan
I mean, they're enraged. We're all enraged. I mean, do you know that we're sending $40 million a week to the Taliban now?

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Shawn Ryan
It's actually like 43 to 87 million a week.

Megyn Kelly
The Taliban.

Shawn Ryan
Yep.

The same people that we fought for, what, 2020 plus years, who are now.

Megyn Kelly
Not allowing girls to go to school, dressing them in full burqas, marrying them off at age twelve.

Those people.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Cutting people's heads off, assassinating all of our allies over there, lining them up, shooting them in the back of the head.

I mean, it's pretty.

I just don't know how anybody can support that.

Megyn Kelly
Why are we doing that? Why are we doing that? Why are we giving Iran money? Or were up until ten, seven?

Shawn Ryan
I don't, you know, I wish I could answer that. I don't.

I just don't know. It doesn't, you know, what's up is down now and what's left is right, what's black is white and. And it's. It's the deconstruction of America.

Megyn Kelly
Well, what do you.

I mean, it's got to be directly related to the recruiting rates. No, like guys are looking at this saying, why would I join up for that?

There's no responsibility. Our lives are taken for granted.

No one gets fired. No one says sorry. We continue to funnel money to our enemies who. How much blood and treasure was lost in Afghanistan fighting the same group which we're now funding. I just, like, I know people say that's not it. No, I think that's it. We looked at the surveys as to why guys are not signing up anymore.

And like, the top, the top item was fear of death, which is okay, yes, normal, but for centuries.

And guys have been getting past that and signing up anyway, but they're not. So what is it?

Shawn Ryan
I mean, I think it has to do with a lot of things. I think it had to do with the forced vaxes. I think it has to do with the woke agenda. I mean, nobody. I mean, talk about miscalculating your body of work. I mean, it is not liberal Democrat families that sign up for the military. It is middle class to low class conservative families. And you just alienated your entire base. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to go to become a SeAl, to be going to gender ideology crash courses and pronoun training or whatever the hell else they're doing in there. How not to be a right wing extremist and deal with your white rage. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, I think it's that I think it's the way the war's ended. I think it's the new advertising that they do for recruitment.

Megyn Kelly
She's a lesbian. Her mother's are LGBTQ.

Shawn Ryan
It's everything.

Everything about what the messaging they're putting out is who are they going to get, right?

Megyn Kelly
I mean, the numbers are at record lows, and we are precariously perched on possible conflict, God forbid in Ukraine. The United States doesn't want any part of that.

God forbid the middle east. And they're still talking about Taiwan.

We might actually get involved over there.

I was talking to a former Navy SEAL whose name you would know, and he was like, we're not going to win the Taiwan thing.

They're going to take it. China's going to take it. And there's not much we're going to be able to do about it without actually getting involved militarily, boots on the ground, and the american people aren't going to want that if China takes it. His analysis was, we're going to have to let him take it.

Shawn Ryan
I mean, we'll probably provoke him to take it just to start another war, just to spin up the military industrial complex more than it already is. And I mean, that seems to be what we do, is we provoke and then capitalize.

Megyn Kelly
Can you zoom out on that, Sean? Do that, like, explain that to me, because I understand people throw that term around military industrial complex, but you understand it better than most.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. So the military, I mean, let's take it back to the Iraq war.

I don't think we should have been there at the time. I think, yeah, it was great. I got action. I got to do what I signed up to do. We got to kill a bunch of bad guys.

Now that I'm older and I'm out and I see a bigger picture, I mean, I just think it's kind of weird that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton. Halliburton was the biggest logistics, not, not the biggest, probably the only logistics company in both wars. And so everywhere you went, it was Halliburton did laundry, Halliburton did the gas, Halliburton built the barracks, Halliburton built the chow hall. Halliburton cooked the food.

Halliburton did. They did everything. The mail, everything. It was KBR. Halliburton.

He was the CEO of that. So all infrastructure in the entire Iraq war was Halliburton.

Who is the former CEO, is the vice president of the United States.

That's what we're getting at.

Then there's Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, and all of these, they make a lot of the tech and the missiles and the planes and all of these sorts of things. Guns, communications equipment, everything that is new that's being developed. It's not the government developing it. It's these companies that get paid ungodly amounts of. Of money to fund to develop things you would use in war.

Megyn Kelly
And then they put people like Nikki Haley on their boards.

Shawn Ryan
Exactly.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, she not only was on the Boeing board, but she has a husband who's making military vehicles right now. That's his side business, where he's making the vehicles that'll be used in war, which they profit off of. Yeah, this is what you're talking about. And then she, you know, in her world, was about to step into the presidency and what have. Have zero conflicts.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, yeah. Or, you know, like Ukraine. I mean, we send all of our stuff over, all of our missiles, our tanks, our UAV's, our javelins, whatever you fill in the blank. And so now we have to replenish all those stockpiles and which is banking these companies. It's given the companies work to make more money. And that's what this. I'm convinced that that's what this is all about.

Megyn Kelly
The saber rattling and the reason the politicians do it is because these are big donors.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. I mean, I can't be. You know, you would probably know more about that than I do, but, yeah, I mean, lobbying organizations.

Hey, look at all the people that are support like that are supporting what's going on in Ukraine and. And Russia and still. Yeah.

Why were we in Afghanistan for 20 plus years just to completely abandon it?

There was so many things we could have used there. We gave up Bagram air force base, one of the most strategic air force bases in the world.

Afghanistan has endless amounts of lithium that we could utilize for our green initiative. Right. But we'll just give those over to China and let them sell us the lithium. Even though we had built all the infrastructure there, and they're already mining it.

Megyn Kelly
Why? Why would we do that?

Shawn Ryan
Why would we give it up?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Because we made a decision to cut and run, and that was the decision we were going to live by, I guess.

Shawn Ryan
I mean, I can't find any logic.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, the problem is, on that one, both parties are to blame, right? I mean, Trump came up with a plan, and then Biden executed it terribly. But, I mean, Trump, too, wanted to pull us out of there and not keep anything. I mean, I realized we were over war.

And, I mean, the forever wars are a real thing, and people who grew up. I mean, I'm a little older than you are, but both of us grew up in a time where in the beginnings, we thought, these are just wars, and we're serving a worthy cause here, and we understand why the United States is doing it. It's only having sort of been in the midst of this, like, belief and then seeing it all crash down and then seeing the aftermath that you realize I was sold a bag of goods.

Shawn Ryan
Yep. Yep. It's really interesting if you can take yourself out of the, you know, the politics and your emotional state and look at these things from, like, a 30,000 foot view, and it might paint a different perspective, and, you know, maybe we aren't the good guys.

Megyn Kelly
What do you think will happen with Ukraine? I mean, at what point does the United States say they're not. They can't win? This is throwing good money after bad and get more aggressive about forcing some sort of compromised end to this thing, man.

Shawn Ryan
What do I think will happen in Ukraine? I think.

I mean, I think a change in the presidency could possibly end it.

Megyn Kelly
Ours or Ukraine's?

Shawn Ryan
Ours. I don't think theirs will ever. I mean, why would you.

Megyn Kelly
Not now.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, why would you?

So much. They're getting so much out of this.

Megyn Kelly
But I'm just saying, like, I don't know that the ukrainian people are as insane as Zelenskyy seems with his, you know, no compromise. We're gonna see it through to the end. All your people will be dead.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I think.

I think this BrIcs thing has a lot.

I think that things will get interesting when China starts making more moves.

That's what I think. I don't think any of these wars are going anywhere.

Megyn Kelly
Should we have nothing to do with that?

Taiwan, China.

Shawn Ryan
Man, you're asking some tough questions.

That's one I think we would probably need to step in on.

Megyn Kelly
Actually step in, though. I mean, do you agree boots on the ground will be required? How are we going to fight that one from drones?

Shawn Ryan
How are we going to fight that? I think that.

I don't know.

Definitely a lot of navy.

Megyn Kelly
Mm hmm. That's right.

We don't have enough ships.

Shawn Ryan
A lot of navy.

And I think all of our allies would need to come together to.

I mean, I think that. I mean, I personally think we're on the brink of World War III.

Megyn Kelly
With China.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Over Taiwan.

Shawn Ryan
I mean, look at all the angles they have on us. You know, they are behind the fentanyl crisis. They're sending in all the supplies. They're trading the cartels how to make the world's most potent, fentanyl. Actually, now they're teaching them how to make nidocin, which so went from, what, heroin to fentanyl to nidocin.

They're behind that. They're buying all our farmland. They're capturing all of our elites, politicians, and just tech gurus.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, not to mention the spying.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, I mean, we have our. I mean, yeah, that's out there, right? What's his name was sleeping with a chinese spy.

Megyn Kelly
Eric Swalwell. Right. Is that. I get my far left democrats confused.

Shawn Ryan
I can't remember his name, but that's who it was. But I mean, they have. So, I mean, look at California. From what I understand, all the real estate signs now are all in Chinese. And I've always wondered, I mean, you see this massive migration happening all across the country, with red states being inundated with people fleeing California, New York, Chicago.

And I always wondered, who's buying all this real estate over there? If everybody's leaving, who's buying all this real estate? They're selling it to China.

We rolled out the red carpet for.

Megyn Kelly
Them when it came to visit their takeover of Hollywood.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
The NBA. Yeah, they have more money than God when it comes to buying things that are american or american owned. You know, their own people can suffer, but they're very interested in spending tons of money, buying up our industries and our land, and we're just suckers for the dollar. So we say yes.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
You know, that's why. That's why the NBA said, sure, we'll do whatever you want, and we won't criticize you. That's why Hollywood takes anything they find offensive out of its films, so they can make money over in China on the sales there. We've bent the knee, you know, to our chinese master. So you're right. It's happening in more and more. People just aren't paying attention. They're living their lives not paying attention to a little bit more here and there. But they're not.

Shawn Ryan
It's happening all over the world. I mean, look what they're doing in Africa. You know, they're settling Africa.

They have. They are the influence in Afghanistan now. I mean, they have.

Megyn Kelly
They go in with their money, and they make these countries dependent on them. And that used to be us. That used to be the United States being the leader of the free world and being out there helping the third world countries and creating some loyalty and some allyship.

We're not doing that anymore. But China is.

Shawn Ryan
You're exactly right. And then, I mean, it's just, I mean, that right there alone shows how many angles they have. And I know there's more. I'm just, I'm put on the spot.

Megyn Kelly
But it's scary to think about.

Shawn Ryan
It is, you know, it's very scary. And I don't think, I don't think people understand, you know, how, how pertinent it is that we need to start addressing this stuff like immediate, like yesterday.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, the one thing we have going for us is their economy is not strong.

Shawn Ryan
That's what I keep hearing. But I hear both sides, you know, and I don't, I mean, they have so much influence across the world now. And their version, the BRICS initiative, you're aware of the BRICS initiative, you know, and devaluing our currency. And I think the last time I checked, there's like 22 countries on board that now.

Megyn Kelly
And it's a sketchy crew, but they have a lot of money.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So now more than ever, we need new up and coming, the next generation of Sean Ryan's.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah, I guess so.

Megyn Kelly
So what do you do? Trump's gotta win and people have to see America as strong again and maybe he'll be a little afraid of us, you know, I mean, that's, the New York Times just did a poll showing that Trump's beating Biden in five out of the six swing states, same as it was in November, by a healthy margin in most of them. And they were so befuddled by their own poll, they went back to their, to the people who responded to say, like, why? Why?

Shawn Ryan
Again?

Megyn Kelly
What is it? Really? The orange man, he's so bad. How could you? Insurrectionist. And in particular, it was interesting because they went to some black voters saying, we don't get it. Why are your numbers surging? And they said, you know, we don't love Trump. He's got a big mouth. He says some stuff we don't like, but he's strong.

And I think the country's going to be a little safer with him in there. He keeps people off balance. And then others said, the economy, I don't need to like him. I need my wallet to be a little fatter. And it was, they did some look back in the economy was like definably 16% more was going into people's average paychecks under Trump than it is now.

So, yeah, we need a strong leader.

There's a chance we won't get one.

It's not a lock. Trump wins.

Robert Kennedy, also anti military industrial complex. Could you ever vote for him?

Shawn Ryan
I think I could vote for him. Could you?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I definitely could vote for him. He's too left for me on many, many issues, but I'm not as hardcore or conservative as, like, a lot of my audience.

I love that he's kind of anti establishment, anti military industrial complex, anti big pharma, that he's an environmental lawyer. I'm actually, I'm kind of green. I like the Green agenda. Not the Green New Deal or any of that nonsense. But like, as a mother, you know, I would like to see us be a little bit more realistic about climate change.

Shawn Ryan
You know, that's something I love talking about this, you know, because you do something positive for the planet and conservatives like throw a shit fit and it's like, hey, man, we live here, right?

In case you haven't noticed, everybody's dying of cancer. Cancer from shit in our foods, cancer from shit in the air, cancer from cancer from everything. It might be, you know, might be good for us to improve the planet a little bit. But that's just my take.

Megyn Kelly
What if we had a RFKJ in there saying, don't eat that, don't do that. That's not getting a blessing anymore. This is a problem over here that he spent his whole life filing lawsuits against people who are polluting our environment in one way, shape or form. I love that. I realize, I mean, he, he said he would allow abortion till the 9th month. Then he walked it back. He's not good on my issue, which is women's rights against the crazy trans lobby.

But I have more issues than just that. So I definitely could vote for RFKJ.

Shawn Ryan
I just asked him about the full term abortion thing. I just interviewed him last week and he told me that the only reason that he would go full term would be for the mother if she was gonna die, if there was a life threatening.

Megyn Kelly
So he's arrived at that a little late. Yeah, he told Sage Steele, it's up to the mom, okay, whatever she wants all the way through 9th month. And then Sage, who's amazing, was like, a lot of us get uncomfortable when you say it's okay for a mother just based on her own desire to abort a baby at full term. And he answered it again, saying, well, I would.

Shawn Ryan
Oh, really?

Megyn Kelly
But then all the shitstorm came and he walked it back. It was like, never mind.

Shawn Ryan
Gotcha.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, I understand if that's your biggest issue, and it is. For a lot of, you know, deeply faithful people in particular.

He's out.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
But anyway, it all depends on your hierarchy of principles, and I just. I love how anti establishment he is.

Shawn Ryan
Me too, man. Me too.

Megyn Kelly
So, speaking of faith, you are. You've had a bit of a metamorphosis in your own life on this front. Is that because of Katie, or is that your own journey?

Shawn Ryan
That's my own journey. And do you want me to go into it?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Shawn Ryan
Okay.

Well, so I interview some really.

I have some really heavy interviews, Tyler. Andrew Vargas was one of them. And, I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen that. And to see a 24 year old, my studios on the second floor, and to watch him hobble up there with one leg, one arm, you know, it's just.

It got to me. And the day before I interviewed him, I interviewed a. A hacker who had hacked into all these websites and kind of in pedophilia websites and downloaded all the user list, got it to the FBI.

The FBI did nothing with it until I interviewed him. And.

Super dark interview.

The reality is, I mean, we pulled. We caught a child predator in 5 seconds. Because I didn't realize I was like, you hear about this stuff, right, and how common it is, but you don't. I don't. I didn't see it. And so he's in there, and we're doing the interview, and I said, hey, you got your laptop. Pull it out. Get in any. I don't care what it is. Instagram, TikTok, whatever teen chat room you want. I just want to see how long this takes. He made the screen name Ashley, 13, New Jersey.

Literally 5 seconds. It's on camera.

Megyn Kelly
We screen recording until he was in.

Shawn Ryan
Like, a room where 5 seconds before 40 something year old bam. Was wanting to meet a 13 year old girl at a wherever.

Megyn Kelly
That's sick.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. And so that's what I mean. This is the stuff that I cover. And so me and my wife were going on vacation. I just finished up those two interviews, especially the one with. With Ryan Montgomery. He's the hacker. That.

That just really got to me. You know, the kids stuff really gets to me.

Megyn Kelly
The guys who work in that industry, shutting those down.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
It's a very hard life.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. And, um. And so we went to Sedona, and there was also. What else was happening. The chinese spy balloon just flew over the.

I saw.

I think it was. Was it Reba came out saying, oh, I think it's freedom of speech that drag queens should be able to, you know, show up at your town library, kids.

And I'm just. And I got to this point where I was like, man, am I the only person that, like, gives a shit about this stuff, that actually cares about kids? And, like, why we just abandoned our allies in Afghanistan? And why is there a 24 year old that was blown up unnecessarily? I mean, they had the guy Pidd in his sights. They could have killed that bomber, you know, and now all of his friends are dead, and he's. And so these are all the things that are going through my head. And I had hit this point.

I was having a conversation in my head, and I'd hit this point where it was like, why do you even talk about this stuff anymore? Nobody cares. You know, about the maps thing. Minor attracted persons.

Megyn Kelly
They're trying to redefine pedophilia into this minor attracted person. Normal. Just like a fetish.

Some people have a foot fetish, some people have a toddler fetish, and we're supposed to accept this?

Shawn Ryan
Yeah.

And so I'm just seeing all these things, and I'm like, how can, like, how can anybody, like, buy into this shit?

I have family that, like, votes left, you know? And it gets to me. It makes my skin crawl. Like, I can't.

I don't understand how anybody could support any of the. What I just list rattled off.

And so it got to me, and I got to this point where I was like, I can't. Like, I can't live like this, this anymore. Like, I can't. If nobody gives a shit. Maybe I'm. Maybe I am the one that is.

Maybe I'm the one that has something wrong with it. You know? Maybe. Maybe this is all acceptable. And I just. I'm not. My brain isn't switching. Maybe I'm the problem, and I shouldn't be fighting this anymore. I need to. I need to be happy. And it basically felt like I was surrendering to evil, and I was trying to convince myself to be fine with it.

So we're staying in this nice resort in Sedona.

They got a guarded gate, and I pay attention to that kind of stuff because of my background.

And a lot of the guys knew me that worked there from my podcast and wanted to talk. Well, we were there for a week. The last day I walked through, and it's this old man in there, and he's wanting to talk to me. Me and my wife had gone up to a hike because I was like, I just got to get the hell out of here. Maybe a hike will make me feel better. Walk back down, and this guy starts trying to talk to me. It's dark at this point. I had already kind of surrendered. Like, I'm done. I didn't feel good, but I had kind of made my decision. Like, I'm not doing this anymore.

And I'm kind of looking at him over the shoulder, like, I'm not in the mood to, like, strike up a conversation, and. But my wife starts talking to him, and I'm like, shit, I just want to go to my room. So I turn around, and this guy.

This guy read my mind from front to back.

And, I mean, like, I've never had that happen. It wasn't.

I mean, it was descriptive. It was. It scared the shit out of me, because I was like, how are you? How.

How are you? In my head? And he started rattling off all these thoughts that I was having on that entire hike. And he's like, this stuff that's going on in China, that's not your fight anymore. And this stuff that's going on with the kids, that's not your fight either. And this stuff that's going on with the trans community, that's not your fight. And I had shut down. I was like, how is this guy in my head right now? So freaked me out. We're walking back to our bungalow. We were in a place where it was kind of like a duplex, and we're on one side, somebody else is on another side. We got there when we got to Sedona.

My best friend that I was referring to earlier, his name's Gabe, he died of a heroin overdose later on. But Gabe was a seal. Gabe was a pro hockey player. Gabe was a fighter, was into mma. Gabe was at the agency with me. And no matter where Gabe was, Gabe was always known as a protector. Like, no matter what unit he was in, no matter what, who he was with, could be the manliest of all men. Like, everybody knows Gabe has got you.

And he was my best friend.

Well, we get there, and we see this guy, and he looks identical. He could be Gabe's identical twin. I mean, you could see differences, but same brow line, same jawline, same build, same walk, same three day shadow, same everything.

Muscular.

And me and my wife were both like, man, that looks exactly like Abe. And everywhere we would go, this guy was at. If we were at the pool, this guy was at the pool. If we were going on a hike, this guy was coming back from a hike. If we were out in town getting dinner, he was out in town getting dinner. And.

And we had always thought it was weird because I'd kind of had a breakdown on the plane to Sonona.

And so I was in a vulnerable spot. My wife knew it. I was in a vulnerable spot. I knew it.

I was with my buddy Dave, and he knew it. And it was just odd that Gabe, who's always known as a protector, is like, every. This guy that looks identical to him is everywhere. Well, it turns out, right from that gate we walked to our bungalow, and it turns out this guy and his family is staying right across the thing from us.

We hadn't seen him all week. And I'm like, that was weird. And on the way back, I'm telling Katie, I'm like, holy shit. Like, I think. I think that was God that was reading my mind. And she's like, yeah, Sean, that was God. And I'm like, I can't believe this. Like, how is this happening? And she's like, sean, God's always been around you. You just don't make time for him.

And I knew that to be true. So we get to the bungalow, Gabe staying across the way, or the lookalike, whatever you want to call it. We find out he's staying right across. This is all within, like, 1015 minutes. Then we go in, and I'm crying, and I'm like, I can't believe this is happening.

And right before, also right before we went to Zona, a good friend of mine, his name was Dan Cirillo, died.

He was kind of the only.

He was a seal and a businessman, and he lived in Franklin. And I don't have a lot of people that I can relate to where I live now in Franklin. And Dan is one of those guys that.

He's very successful. He owned a couple of hospitals. He owned a. A big security business. And he's, like, one of the few people that I can sit down with and talk business and talk friends, and he doesn't need anything from me, and I don't need anything from him. And those, you know, those relationships get hard to come by. And so we hit it off really fast. And then he died on a hunting trip with his son. Had a heart attack.

But, hey, I mean, if there's a way to go, good on him. But anyways, his daughter, who I had never met, I'm having this breakdown in the hotel, and his daughter.

I heard my phone go off while I was talking to Katie.

And as soon as we finished what we were talking about, about what was going on, I checked my phone, and it's from his daughter.

And.

And it's this text. I'd never even met her before.

And she says she must have got my number from her dad's phone. And she said, hey, Sean, this is Taylor, Dan's daughter.

And I just walked into my dad's gun room for the first time since he had passed away.

And he grabbed me by the arm and told me that I needed to contact you because you knew a side of him that nobody else knew and that he wanted me to tell you that he loves you just the way that you are and that you're doing exactly what you should be doing.

And then I'm trying not to lose it right now, but so that was, like, the third thing. All within, like I said, 1015 minutes. And I was like, holy shit, like, there's no to die in this one.

Megyn Kelly
Exactly.

Shawn Ryan
And a little brick wall. Yeah. And so, you know, I grew up catholic and never really took church seriously.

I never did. And then when I left home, I never really went back and had kind of lost faith. And I'm not saying I wasn't a believer. I just didn't really care, and I didn't think about it, and I had definitely no time for God.

And so I took that as a. I mean, that was like a slap in the face. And I decided I needed to get serious about faith and at least look into it. And so I started looking into it, and it's. And it's been great. And, you know, to be honest, it's the only thing I can find that makes any damn sense anymore. And it's all. It's all in that book. Everything we're seeing happening right now is in that book.

Megyn Kelly
Is that how you started, just reading the bible?

Shawn Ryan
I did. I did. I started trying to read it from front to back, and. And I wasn't really getting anywhere.

Megyn Kelly
And then some shocking stuff in that old testament. Yeah, if you go that way.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. And.

But then turns out, as it turns out, my entire team, I'm really close with my team, my podcast team, the guys that. That work for me and make it what it is.

And turns out one guy was raised southern baptist, super well versed in the bible. My editor, darren, grew up a jehovah's witness and escaped it, but knows. I mean, knows that book from front to back.

My it guy, adam, uh, devout catholic, knows it all. Everything. Elijah, my production manager, he's the southern baptist guy. And they kind of started pouring into me, and.

And a lot of my buddies that were in the seal teams, uh, eddie penny, really kind of paved the way for all of this. I think Eddie penny was a. We were a team, two together.

And then he went on to dev group and just like, oh, ma. Like, I mean, not who you would expect to come to faith, but he was my Christmas episode a couple years ago, and ever since, he came on and gave his testimony of how he came to, everybody that's been on the show has brought it up, and he became kind of a mentor mine. So I called Eddie and told him, and I said, hey, this is what happened.

I don't really know where to start. I don't really know what this means.

And we had a conversation, and he goes, he was like, oh, man. He's like, a lot of us have been praying for this to happen. Wow. And that kind of freaked me. I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, we've been waiting for this. He's like, you have a big voice, and this needs to happen.

And so that was at about midnight. Now I'm getting into some other kind of weird synchronicity. Coincidences. And so about 12 hours later, I had a meeting that Adam, my it guy, had scheduled with me at noon.

And Eddie was telling me during the conversation, he was talking about guardian angels and all this other stuff, stuff that was spiritual warfare, stuff that I know, like, nothing about. Well, fast forward 12 hours. I'm talking to Adam. I didn't know what this meeting. I thought it was about email marketing or something, and he wanted to talk to me about spiritual warfare and guardian angels.

Megyn Kelly
Wow.

Shawn Ryan
And I was like.

It was literally, like, almost the exact same conversation as I had had with Eddie.

Megyn Kelly
Penny, you're like, that's not on the drop down menu of message manager, meeting manager.

Shawn Ryan
And they're not friends. I mean, Adam is.

With all due respect, they hadn't coordinated those two guys. Eddie is a built, like, a shit brick house, a dev group operator, and Adam is a IT computer nerd who I love to death. And so, no, they don't. They don't. There's no cross pollination. They're not friends. They've never spoken exact same conversation at noon, come home for lunch, for my studio to be with the wife and kids and Adam.

And anyways, I go back to work. I look at my clock in my truck, and it says it's 444. I look at the odometer. It says 444 miles left to e. And this is 4 hours and 44 minutes after my conversation with Adam about guardian angels. So I look up the meaning of 444.

And it is. Your guardian angels want you to know that they have got you. And I'm just, I'm like, holy shit, man. Like, we just had two conversations about guardian angels, and now I'm seeing 444 everywhere within.

Yeah. And, and, and it's in the meaning of it, supposedly, according to google, is your guardian angels want you to know that they've got you.

And so I've been in it ever since, and I've had some great mentors and started going to church. That didn't last very long.

And now we have a group of, there's four families, including us, a lot of trust, very close friends of ours, and we just have a discussion every week, every, every Tuesday. So when I get home today, that's, that's, that's what we're doing. And, uh, it's cool. You get to ask the tough questions.

You can't, you don't need to be embarrassed. You're not going to offend anybody. You don't feel judged like you're going to church every, you know, I always feel like I'm being judged. Oh, hello.

Megyn Kelly
We're Catholic.

Shawn Ryan
Yeah. Built in, and there's none of that. And, man, you, you know, when you, when you kind of take all of the b's, that religion kind of injects into end of your journey of building relationship with, with the creator and Jesus, it's really interesting and it can be a lot of fun.

Megyn Kelly
I know what you're saying.

My audience knows. I've been having a not unrelated struggle on that exact score.

Shawn Ryan
Really?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Yeah.

I'm Catholic, lifelong Catholic, and I started the process of having my first marriage annulled.

And instead of, like, bringing me closer to God or setting me in a path that I thought would land, well, it really has kind of alienated me and it's caused a bit of a crisis of faith, you know, like, who are these middlemen I have to go through in order to have a clean relationship with God? That doesn't make any sense to me. I think God loves me, and God sees me in a loving marriage with three wonderful kids who have two great parents who are in love, and he's thrilled, and he will accept me into his kingdom when it's all said and done. And if he doesn't, it's certainly not going to be because I didn't get a paper. I got a paper divorce from Dan, but I didn't get an annulment from a priest, you know, and then marry Doug in a catholic church. It doesn't make any sense. To me.

So that's sort of where I am right now. I'm still wrestling with it. I got tons of great feedback, by the way, thank you to my audience because so many thoughtful emails on it, you know, from catholic listeners, but also just christian listeners who don't believe in that, you know, middleman thing, either.

I haven't resolved it.

Shawn Ryan
Well, I'll keep my opinion to myself, but why?

The middleman is a lie.

There are no middlemen.

It's just about you and your relationship, and that's it.

They'll let you know that.

And when you think like that, I mean, it's. It gives me a sense of peace, you know? And then you start looking at all the stuff that's going on, like trans visibility day being declared on Easter Sunday.

Megyn Kelly
Like, you can't.

Shawn Ryan
Like, you can't tell me these aren't signs, you know? And this is all. Like I said, this is all in there. I'm still reading through it. I'm not through it all yet. I don't claim to be an expert, but. But, you know, I see things. I have a team to lean on who's well versed in this stuff and very fortunate, and.

And it's. Everything we're seeing happen is in that book. And when you can. When you come to that realization, it's really odd. But all the stuff that, like, all the stuff that was bothering me, and it still does bother me, but at the same time, it makes me stronger, because up that was supposed to happen, you know, up that's in that book, up, like, really, like, trans visibility day, a confusion of genders on Easter Sunday, making a mockery of the resurrection. Like, that was in there.

Megyn Kelly
Yep.

Shawn Ryan
And so.

Megyn Kelly
So how do you feel now? Do you feel a difference physically, like, emotionally.

Shawn Ryan
Oh, yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Now. Versus during the chinese trial balloon period.

Shawn Ryan
Which was dark, definitely. I mean, I'm at peace with it. I mean, I'm still gonna fight the good fight, and I'm still gonna bring truth and uncover corruption and tell these stories, and I'm not gonna bend a knee to anything, and. But, you know, it.

But seeing it all happen, it is actually making me stronger, because I found something in a world of nothing that makes any sense at all. Not a damn bit of sense.

This makes all the sense in the world. It aligns with the values that I've always had, or maybe I align with its values, but, yeah, it's helped me.

And then you start learning about maybe forgiveness is for you and not for the people that did something bad to you. That was unjust. You know, it's for your sense of peace, not for theirs.

You can go on and waste all that bad energy hating somebody and talking shit about them and complaining.

I got screwed over and I'm a victim, and da da da da da. But the minute you forgive them, that's off your plate. And it just.

It's like a cleanse.

Megyn Kelly
Amen.

But God bless you. Thank you so much for coming on and telling your story and all these personal details about your life. What a pleasure. What an honor to know you.

Shawn Ryan
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. And like I said, I was really excited to meet you and just happy to be here.

Megyn Kelly
I'm honored and honestly, God bless you. Thank you for your service. Thanks to all of our military members, active duty and retired, and those we've lost in the service and sacrifice. Appreciate it.

Shawn Ryan
God bless you, too.

Megyn Kelly
I hope this is the first of many. Shawn.

Shawn Ryan
Me too.

Megyn Kelly
Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No b's, no agenda, and no fear.

Military-Industrial Complex - From Bush to Biden | Shawn Ryan x Megyn Kelly - The FULL Interview

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1: Early Life and Military Enlistment

2: Combat Experiences and CIA Career

3: Post-Service Challenges and Recovery

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