Is Obama Orchestrating Biden's Exit, and Media Elite Start Telling Truth, with Ric Grenell and Bill Sammon

Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly SHow, live on SiriusXM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show. While 48 hours ago, the reporting was that President Biden had appeared to have successfully fought off the intense pressure on him to withdraw as a candidate for reelection, the uprising in the House had all but been quelled by a Capitol Hill meeting at which congressional black Caucus members, including James Clyburn, stuck firmly by Mister Biden and terrified Democrats decided doing nothing felt safer than speaking out. What if he pulls it out? What if he wins? Do you want to be the one who turned on him?

Over in the Senate, no greater courage emerged, despite ubiquitous reporting that the overwhelming number of Democrats in both chambers want Mister Biden gone, do not believe he can win, and are starting to believe he'll take them down with him.

Then Cook political report came out with a devastating look at the polls, essentially predicting a Donald Trump landslide.

This, as CNN projected, the Republicans will win both houses of Congress if Joe Biden stays on as the presidential nominee.

All after a New York Times poll showed Mister Biden hemorrhaging voters as a result of the debate.

Enter Nancy Pelosi yesterday morning on the president's favorite tv show, Morning Joe. Refusing to accept reality because she's a woman who can usually change it. Namely Mister Biden's very clear message that he has firmly decided to stay in this race. Something she was asked about on the air and after the fact, after her appearance in the hallway yesterday, conveyed to President Biden what you said this morning. I'm not having any conversations with you or anybody else about what I talked to President Bell.

Karine Jean-Pierre
We don't do this, y'all.

Megyn Kelly
Do you believe?

James Clyburn
I never do.

Megyn Kelly
I never do. So it's ugly now. I understand. Madam speaker. Do you believe that him waiting so long to make this decision in the.

James Clyburn
Hallway about the fate of our nation.

Megyn Kelly
Concern whether or not he can win in November? I think he can.

Do you believe he should run for reelection? I'm not.

Am I speaking English to you?

I'm not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway.

Hmm. Truth is, she's the most powerful Democrat, but not the only one to pretend they've heard nothing from Joe Biden. I just. We're just going to wait for his decision. We're just going to wait till he decides what to do. They're all pretending that he hasn't already done that. Mister Biden, meantime, has been all but lighting himself on fire. To tell everyone he's not going anywhere. I don't think anybody's more qualified to be president or win this race than this. It's up to the president to decide if he is going to run. I am here in North Carolina for one reason, because I intend to win this date in November.

We're all encouraging him to, to make that decision because time is running short. Well, let me say it as clearly as I can.

I'm staying in a race.

Nancy Pelosi
I have complete confidence that Joe Biden will do the patriotic thing for the country and he's going to make that decision.

Megyn Kelly
The bottom line here is that we're not going anywhere. Whatever he decides, we go with.

Nancy Pelosi
I am not going anywhere.

Megyn Kelly
Now this morning we get news via Politico that Miss Pelosi is privately saying behind the scenes that Joe Biden should step aside, that he cannot win this November. Political citing, quote, about a half dozen lawmakers and others, end quote, for this reporting. Which means she's not even trying now to keep it a secret.

On the heels of all that, Axios is out this morning with reporting that Senator Chuck Schumer two, who earlier this week repeated the phrase when asked about this whole thing over and over, I'm with Joe, I'm with Joe. I'm with Joe, is also behind the scenes, about as committed to Joe as Leonardo DiCaprio is to his about to turn 25 year old girlfriends. Mister Schumer now privately signaling to donors that he is in fact open to a ticket without Joe Biden at the top, following a barrage of phone calls from deep pocketed Democrats, the ones who keep him in office, as well as his fellow senators who are all melting down about the fact that the Republicans are going to win the Senate, never mind hold on to the House.

But what about Hakeem Jeffries? We've heard less from him. Congress's other most powerful Democrat. He's the minority leader in the House.

Moments before we came to air, Jake Sherman of Punchbowl News reported that he caught up with Mister Jeffries and asked him directly about Mister Biden staying on as the nominee. Was the response, I'm with Joe or James Clyburn's I'm riding with Biden, I'm riding with Biden? Not exactly.

He told Sherman that he's looking forward to concluding his talks with every single House Democrat, adding, quote, we'll convene as a leadership team and figure out the next step. End quote.

What does that mean? What's to decide? The president has made clear he's decided. He's all in. What step are you deciding? What are you talking to every single House Democrat about?

Clearly, it's not over.

News today as well about the man at the very top of the democratic leadership ranks, and that is former President Barack Obama. Remember yesterday that scathing op ed in the New York Times by democratic fundraiser actor George Clooney? Well, it appears he gave Mister Obama, his close friend the heads up about this piece, and surprise, surprise, reportedly received no objection, which was obvious to anyone who knew anything about the two men's close friendship. There was no way George Clooney would have done this without Barack Obama's blessing, or many believe, at Barack Obama's urging, Clooney claimed that the fundraiser he sponsored for Joe Biden three weeks ago, that the president, that that president who was there was the debate. Joe Biden, the Atlanta Joe Biden, not the Joe Biden of 2010. This is a big effing deal. Or even of 2020.

Conveniently left out of the op ed is any explanation for why George Clooney said nothing of the president's diminished state after the event, particularly when the news world exploded with a debate about whether the videos from that fundraiser accurately portrayed Joe Biden as a frail loss elderly man who needed help getting off the stage, or whether those videos were cheap fakes, as the White House and others claimed. Where was Mister Clooney then?

The Biden camp? Now says George Clooney was only there for a few minutes for a photo op before he peaced out. Maybe that's true, but what about Barack Obama?

He was there much longer. He was actually with President Biden on stage. We all saw it with our own eyes and part of the cheap fake moment. Where's his account? Why won't he tell us now what he saw? After all, the country's facing an existential threat with the possible reelection of Donald Trump.

Why would Mister Obama leave it to others to deliver some direly needed straight talk to the nation? What did you see, sir?

There's a fight, an important one now between George Clooney, one of the largest democratic fundraisers, and Joe Biden. And Barack Obama can settle it. He can settle it all.

Okay, he's a former president. Maybe he doesn't want to get directly involved in these squabbles that could determine the presidency and in democrats eyes, the future of our very country.

But what about Barbra Streisand, Jimmy Kimmel? They were there too. What did they see? They've been remarkably silent. She tweets every 2 seconds. Where's your tweet? About this. Why won't they tell us what they saw? Democracy dies in darkness. People don't forget.

They're terrified.

You all know what they saw. They saw what we saw. They saw the frail, elderly man who needed help getting off the stage. They're just too chicken shit to tell us about it because they accurately deduce that he could still be the democratic nominee and they don't want to ding him up. Maybe you give Barbara a pass. Who gives a damn what this singer saw or says? But you know what? Jimmy Kimmel happens to be employed by ABC, which happens to have a rather large news organization, and he has been one of President Trump's most vocal critics. Where are you, Jimmy? On vacation? Not good enough. You can still use your thumbs to send out a tweet. You could set the record straight right now, but you won't.

Jon Favreau, he was also at the fundraiser. Former Obama staffer and Pod Save America co host. Now he's out there saying everyone at the event saw what George Clooney saw.

Jon Favreau
I mean, it was not surprising to any of us who were at the fundraiser. I was there.

Clooney was exactly right. And every single person I talked to at the fundraiser thought the same thing, except for the people working for Joe Biden. Or at least they didn't say that. But I remember my wife Emily turned to me after the fundraiser and said, what are we going to do? I mean, and I said, well, there's a debate in a week. Either he'll do well in the debate and we'll think, well, he was just tired because he flew all the way back from Europe, and that'll be that. Or he'll be like this at the debate, and then the whole country will be talking about it. And so here we are.

Megyn Kelly
I see. So he saw it, too, and he's got a very big platform. Did he use it the next day to tell us all, hello, five alarm fire, people. Joe Biden is in firm and no longer there. He did a show the next day. Let's listen to what he said.

Jon Favreau
If I took a poll and someone said, does the conviction make you less likely to vote for Donald Trump? I would say, no, no, I'm 100%. I was never going to vote for him, ever. Trump visited a black church in Detroit and then spoke at the turning Points USA conference. And TpUSA is known for its ties to white supremacists.

Nancy Pelosi
That Trump got the name of the.

Jon Favreau
Doctor wrong when he was demanding that Joe Biden take a cognitive test and talk about how he is. It's Ronnie Jackson. When you're going to accuse someone of cognitive decline, you want to get the doctor's name right.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God.

So the very issue of Biden's cognitive decline, at least as Trump was criticizing it, came up and he said nothing but to criticize Trump for misdating a name. Nothing.

Just like virtually every other democratic talking head over the last three years. Zero courage, zero capacity, or desire for truth telling if it would harm anyone on Team blue.

Which leads me to Corinne Jean Pierre. Tough to say whether she's the biggest liar among the president's defenders, but she's definitely in the running. Here is her pre debate spin on the so called cheap fakes that were falsely portraying Mister Biden as diminishing.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Do you have any concerns right now that this is the leading edge of any part of a russian effort to.

Nancy Pelosi
Interfere in the election? Has the president been briefed on this?

Karine Jean-Pierre
And have you seen any evidence that.

Nancy Pelosi
The Russians or other foreign powers have.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Tried to seize on the debate performance.

Nancy Pelosi
Repeat some of the president's most embarrassing moments?

James Clyburn
So that's a very good question. I would leave it to the Department of Justice as what they announced. Obviously, that's for them to speak to. Look, AI has always been a concern. That's why the president made some announcements recently. An executive to take executive action on how we can deal with AI.

Megyn Kelly
Great. Could be we've got to look into it. Maybe the Department of Justice will figure out whether these are cheap fakes.

Maybe you should just call your biggest fundraisers, George Clooney and your biggest supporters in the Democratic Party, like the pod save America guys. Just want to ask them. They were there. You can find out so easy.

Time and time again, this woman came out to the press corps who are there to bring clarity to the american people who employ her. You're her boss. So am I.

And defended the president's vim and vigor.

James Clyburn
It is hard for us to keep up with this president. He has a grueling schedule that he keeps up with that sometimes some of us are not able to keep up with, oh, my gosh, he's the president of the United States. You know, he. I can't even keep up with him. I'll quote a little bit of what the first lady said. Said, I think, incredibly well just a couple days ago.

President Biden does more in 1 hour than most people do in a day.

Megyn Kelly
And then came the debate and the reporting about the neurologist visiting the White House nine times, at least in the past year. And then genuine anger from the press corps, which, behind the scenes, we now know has been getting pummeled by this White House for even asking about Mister Biden's cognitive well being. James Rosen, banned from press conferences for eight months after he went there with the president.

Others with their hands slapped and shamed for daring to bring up the topic.

That's her doing that. That's her office. Those are her colleagues at the campaign as well.

Now, she comes out this week, and she acts the way someone who knows they've done wrong acts. She acts the way your dog acts when he ate the brownies and crapped in your living room ears back. Kind of sweet, slightly ashamed, and desirous of currying favor with the ones they wronged. Watch this.

James Clyburn
I do take offense to what Ed alluded to.

You know, come out here every day, there's a press briefing, and we do our best to give you the information that we have at the time.

That's what we do.

And we understand that. Freedom of the press. We respect the freedom of the press. I appreciate the back and forth that we all have. It is, I try to respect you, and I hope you try to respect me. And my team does everything that we can to make sure we get the answers to you. That's what we do. And sometimes we disagree.

Sometimes we are not in agreement. But you know what? That's democracy. To say that I'm holding information or allude to anything else is not unfair. It's really, really unfair. And I will admit, I will be the first one to admit sometimes I get it wrong. At least I admit that.

At least I admit that.

Megyn Kelly
Do you?

Do you?

I couldn't believe it when I watched this. When I heard this live, my jaw dropped. Please. Like me. It wasn't me. There could be congressional investigations of this disgusting coverup, which is exactly like your dog's dump in the living room, by the way. It stinks to high heaven and it is nearly impossible to clean up. She was finding out that out real time.

This is the first stage of coming to grips with the fact that the american people, not just Republicans, but all of us, are onto her.

We know we've been spoon fed lies. Yes, I know. If you watch this show, you knew that long ago. But her side is finding it out, so she's panicked.

As she sought to shore up her relationships with people who buy ink by the barrel. She lied more.

The press exposed the fact that a neurologist had been visiting the White House residents clinic. Okay? Now, according to doctor Ronnie Jackson, who was the White House doctor for both Obama and for Trump. He says that's right below the president's bedroom and it is dedicated only to members of the first family.

Right. And she tried to take that visit and tell the press that that meeting with this doctor was not about President Biden at all.

I just want to get a clarification on the letter that was sent last night.

James Clyburn
Sure, absolutely.

Megyn Kelly
From Doctor O'Connor.

And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it didn't seem to explicitly describe the nature of Doctor Kinnard's meeting with Doctor O'Connor. So can you say whether that one meeting was related to care for the president himself?

James Clyburn
I can say that it was not.

Megyn Kelly
It was not. Okay, great. Can I just ask why that information that was released last night just wasn't set at the briefing yesterday?

James Clyburn
Well, no, actually a lot of what is in the letter was said at the briefing to be very, very clear. I said many of the things that were laid out in the letter was actually repeated right here behind this lectern at this podium yesterday.

Megyn Kelly
By the way, she has a tell. She always says we've been very clear when she's going to tell a lie. We've been clear either precedes or follows her lies often.

And what she said there was exposed as a lie. That meeting was about Joe Biden that was later outed and she had to again, dog with the tail between the legs, come back to the lectern and admit it when the press caught her.

She also tried to tell the press that the president had not seen a doctor post debate. When that was exposed as a lie too, by the president himself.

He was meeting with those democratic governors and he told them he'd been seen by a doctor. She then tried to say, well, what she meant was he hadn't gotten a full physical since the debate, which nobody was even asking about. But of course, Mister Biden sees doctors every day. She wants us to know it's every day it's not. Not because of the debate or his performance there. He sees a doctor every day, conveniently, when he's drinking green juice and pumping iron.

Can you elaborate on what the difference is between a check in and an exam at these check ins? Does doctor Connor or another staff member take the precedence? It's vitals or anything like that?

James Clyburn
Verbal check ins with the president?

They check in as the president's exercising. That's usually how this happens.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, sure, sure. Jan, as an added cherry, on top of all of this, we get her self aggrandizing rewrite of her own behavior.

James Clyburn
It has been an unprecedented time. I think you guys could admit that, right? It is an unprecedented time. And so we are meeting the moment, a new moment that has never really existed before.

Megyn Kelly
We're meeting the moment, you know, we admit when we're wrong.

We respect you guys. We appreciate the back and forth of this room, my lord, after this gaslighting, we got to the phase we tend to get from most liars when their lies are exposed. Jean Pierre got defensive and she feigned indignation when pressed on her many, many, many lies. This particular exchange with the CB's news reporter was about those neurology visits.

James Clyburn
I do take offense to what Ed alluded to.

You know, come out here every day, there's a press briefing and we do our best to give you the information that we have at the time. We understand that. Freedom of the press. We respect the freedom of the press. And my team does everything that we can to make sure we get the answers to you. That's what we do. To say that I'm holding information or allude to anything else is not unfair is really, really unfair. And I will admit, I will be the first one to admit sometimes I get it wrong. At least I admit that.

At least I admit that.

Megyn Kelly
So you heard that there a little similar to the first one, but more indignation.

You know what a liar sounds like by this point in the program, you hear me talk about it all the time, attacking the question and the questioner. Classic responses of someone who is lying.

I take offense.

No one gives a shit whether you're offended.

No one. Literally, no one cares. You're the White House press secretary. You are there to take a beating. You're there to provide information. And when you don't, and even when you do, to take a beating, you do that for the president. That's the job. You don't, you don't take offense. There's no offense.

Take the questions, answer the questions, be truthful. And if you can't be truthful, get out of bounds. That's what you should do if you're trying to protect your boss, not lie repeatedly and not tell us not to believe our own lying eyes and not give us bullshit, like you can't even keep up with him. My God, the press corps has no respect for this woman or quite frankly, for her boss at this point or his other staff. The press are angry. Yes. Even the bent press that are completely wrapped around the axle for democrats are angry because they've, they feel foolish. They've also been made fools of. And that same press corps is going to be there this evening when Joe Biden holds a 06:30 p.m. news conference after his NATO meetings. First it was 530. Then they moved it to 630. We are getting dangerously close to bedtime.

This is the first time he's had a presser in months. And during what can fairly be described as a stressful week.

The White House expects big things from Mister Biden this evening. Whatever you may think of him, he has their total respect and reverence here. They were describing this upcoming presser.

James Clyburn
This week, President Biden will speak to national labor leaders of AFL CIO, host the NATO summit to show the unprecedented of our alliance. Hold a press conference, a big boy prince conference, according to Justin Sink from Bloomberg.

Karine Jean-Pierre
After that, the president will hold a press conference, I guess a big boy press conference, we're calling it.

Megyn Kelly
Oh my God.

Okay, I realize that was first penned by someone in the press. They picked it up and went with it. So tonight, Joe Biden will hold a big boy presser trying to convince Pelosi, Schumer, Jeffries, Obama, and others. He can eat his peas and chicken, too.

He can stay up late and get his homework done on time.

He can go on the potty and pull up his own big boy pants. And the dignity of his office, already grossly diminished by this dishonest cast of characters, will fall even lower.

I don't see how Joe Biden can survive here.

I know it's better for Trump if he does. I don't really care. He's not fit.

His staff is part of the biggest presidential cover up in decades. He needs to step down from the presidency, never mind the campaign, for the safety of the country.

That's what a big boy would do.

We'll be right back with Rick Grinnell. Do you think America's headed in the right direction?

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Joining me now, former ambassador and acting director of national intelligence, Rick Grinnell. It was just announced he will be speaking at the Republican National Convention next week on Wednesday night. That's big. That's actually a very prime role. Rick, great to see you. Thanks for being back on. What did you make of my opening thoughts on just the massive dishonesty being fire hosed against all of us right now?

Karine Jean-Pierre
I mean, that was a brilliant monologue. What? I'm not sure that we could even add anything to it. You should just run that on loop for the next 2 hours. That was a total takedown. That was fantastic. Filled with humor, filled with outrage. All the emotions that all of us are having right now. My favorite moment, though, Megan, I have to tell you, was in the beginning when condescending elitist Nancy Pelosi says, quote, the fate of our nation is not going to be talked about in the hallway. Which was really my favorite moment, for her to say, this is so important. I'm not going to talk in the hallway. And then she stops and says, am I speaking English to the reporter? I am the reporter.

Megyn Kelly
Having to be black. If that had been you, Rick Grinnell, saying that to a black reporter, they'd be running ten pieces on how you're a racist.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Exactly. It's so juicy to watch them finally get tough questions from the media. But you know, one thing that I just have to say, I have zero sympathy for the reporters. They covered this up. They all knew this. They're embarrassed. Yes. Yet they are the, the ones who literally were speaking propaganda for the ruling party. There are dictators around the world that are jealous of the system in Washington, DC. This is really pathetic. And there needs to be a full investigation. There needs to be a January 6 style real investigation of who covered this up. We're the greatest nation in the history of the world. We should not be having a press corps working with the Democrats to hide the health of the president of the United States. This is dangerous.

We're on full display as NATO members are in Washington, DC.

I was just in Washington, DC, talking with several delegations. They're all talking about this. They're all nervous. Imagine what Iran and North Korea and China and Venezuela. Imagine what they're all planning and thinking. This is a very dangerous moment for America.

Megyn Kelly
So now we have some people playing this pretend game that Joe Biden's presser at 630 will determine the future of Joe Biden's candidacy. And the very country, like the existence of the country could be in the balance tonight because they have to win because Trump is on the other side and they have to get this right. And so we have to pretend that there's some sort of a beauty show going on tonight at 630 where they're going to take their last look at this Biden horse and decide whether it's got the legs to actually run the race. I mean, this is so absurd. We saw, we saw what we saw at the debate. I personally, I don't care what he does in his interview now. He's giving an interview to Lester Holt on Monday or what he did in his interview with Stephanopoulos last Friday or what he says tonight at 630. At this presser, I have enough information to make a judgment and so does everyone. So you tell me, you've been around politics a long time. What are the Democrats doing right now? What is the game at the moment?

Karine Jean-Pierre
Well, it's just simply a power play. Look, my attitude right now is why is it such a big deal that they went through the entire Democrat primary?

He won every state.

He became the nominee. They got to live with it. They chose their nominee for November. So now it's a choice. It's either Joe Biden or Donald Trump. It's not the end of the world if they lose an election. But the press are acting like, oh, my gosh, we're going to lose. So we have to change horses now. I mean, I remember the time when the Democrats were talking about undermining democracy, something or other. And so now we're faced with, they went through the whole process. They knew, are you kidding me? Did they know in December of last year or January of this year that Joe Biden was failing? Of course they did. We were mocked when we pointed it out. If you watch CNN or MSNBC or just read the New York Times or the Washington Post, you're surprised. You watched the Megyn Kelly show, Newsmax, Fox, a whole bunch of other outlets. You are not shocked. You've been watching this train wreck and you've been mocked for bringing it up. And so the juicy part of your monologue was pointing out how many people went to just the latest fundraiser in Los Angeles and stayed silent. I mean, Jon Favreau's wife had to bring it up to say, oh, my gosh, are you seeing this? So his wife was nudging him. He didn't see it. The wife brought it up. And so I think that we have to hold these people to account.

They went through the primary. They chose their guy. They now have to live with it in November. I do think it's a separate question right now, is are we able to have Joe Biden as a competent president?

They seem to think yes, because he's been sick, but they want him to still be the nominee. But it's a separate question. Should he step back from the presidency? My gut says they're going to keep them there. They're going to celebrate him all the way through. They are going to let him be the nominee because he's not going anywhere. But you and I both know, though, if for some reason lightning strikes and God intervenes and they win and Joe Biden wins, he'll last a very short time and they'll hand it over to Kamala.

Megyn Kelly
You know, it's amazing because they've, they've made the argument that Joe Biden is not the most effective messenger against Donald Trump. That's how they're saying it, because they don't want him to be 25th amendmented right out of office. They can't say what we all know is real, which is he's not fit. He's not fit now, he's certainly not going to be fit for another four years. So they've chosen to argue it in a way that would allow them to disqualify him as the candidate, but allow him to remain in office for the next seven months.

And to your earlier point, not only were people like you and me, everybody like Fox Newsmax, all dismissed as, you know, crazy right wing conspiracy theorists for raising the issue of his and infirmity.

We were called ageists, ableists, and that's continuing in some circles. Listen to this democratic representative from Nevada out here just this week.

More than 70% of voters think that President Biden is not demonstrating the capacity to be president.

56% of Democrats say that they would be better off with another nominee. Those are the concerns that I'm talking about that are showing up in the numbers and that are affecting his approval rating.

Nancy Pelosi
What I find interesting is that issue is more around ageism and ableism and not what this president, President Biden has done.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God. I mean, Rick, that's just not going to work. Nice try, Steven Hosbert, but no, that's not going to work.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Yeah, look, we are not talking about the message of the Democrats at all. We're only talking about the messenger. And I do think it's convenient for them to pretend like it's just Joe Biden, that it's not about two wars, gas prices, an open border, inflation, all of those issues, which is why the american people have been outraged.

They are not supporting Joe Biden and the Democrats. The Democrats are going to lose not simply because Joe Biden is old, but because they have a terrible message. They're trying to scramble and pretend like it's just Joe Biden to distract.

Like if we just replaced Joe Biden and had Kamala Harris, that somehow gas prices are going to be fine again. It's going to take them a lot of money and a lot of different messengers to convince people that inflation is not real and that the border is closed and that we don't have two horrific wars of massive killing. I believe that the message is literally why they're losing. It's not just simply the messenger. And I'll finish with this.

We have to, in America, understand that there are consequences for our decisions. We don't just get to change and improve everything just simply because we're losing. We don't get to change the Supreme Court when we lose by adding additional judges. We can't change the rules. And so I think that we have to stand up as a system and say the Democrats chose through the primary process their nominee.

You don't get to change that now unless you want to undermine democracy with a bunch of elites. You chose this guy. You knew all of this information. None of this information is new. You chose him anyway. You have to live with that decision. He's your nominee.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, it's so fascinating to hear, like we talked about this yesterday, this weird dynamic has evolved where the Trump defenders and teammates are. They want Biden. They're defending Biden. And I see why. Of course I see why. He's feeble, he's frail, he's ineffective. He's obviously incompetent.

Karine Jean-Pierre
So we've been saying that for three years. That's not a good idea. No, I know that either.

Megyn Kelly
No, it's not. I know you've said some of it on this show, too, but it's just such an interesting dynamic that, like, the core Trumpers are aligned with the core Biden team on the fact that Joe Biden must remain the nominee. So, but let me ask you this, as somebody who's on team Trump. What if he's not? What if they exercise the in good conscience clause that delegates are allowed to follow, you know, and say, well, new information, and I can't in good conscience, you know, vote for him even though I am a Joe Biden delegate and they find a way to force that to happen or to force him to step out.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Is there anybody, anybody that you're looking at as like a preferred person to run against in the backup class?

Karine Jean-Pierre
Well, I think that we're pretty confident, and most people in Washington are pretty confident that it has to be Kamala Harris. You can't skip over her.

I am in Los Angeles. I live in California. I have a lot of friends who work for Gavin Newsom, know Gavin well, and he doesn't want to run. He doesn't want to mount a presidential campaign in four weeks. All of this media attention to him is bogus. Imagine trying to mount a billion dollar campaign in four weeks.

It's not going to go well, and then that's his one shot and then he's done. I think the same thing is with Gretchen Whitmer and Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar and all of the others who want to run for president. They know it's too late. They would rather see Joe Biden lose. And then there's an open field where they have a long time to develop their message, raise money and run for president. They're taking the long view here. So that's why so many are supporting Joe Biden. Gavin Newsom just wants a shot later, and he wants to look loyal now.

And the reality is his team is rejecting the idea of trying to put together a presidential campaign in four weeks. It's Kamala.

If Joe Biden does step back, and that's where I go with the message is the most important, they're still going to lose, but it will give them a Hail Mary to try to, especially if it's Kamala Harris, to try to just talk about abortion.

She would be easily beatable, but it does give them an adjustment.

They cannot adjust away from her and they cannot adjust away from the message.

That is a terrible message and an incompetent message. She's been right there. I also think she should be dragged in to this future congressional hearing on the COVID up of the president of the United States's health because she is literally having a front row seat to this entire train wreck, and she's yet to stand up and say something.

Megyn Kelly
She's the one who could hold on to the $100 million war chest because she is on the ticket. She's nominated right now as vp. So according to what I read, I'm not an expert on campaign finance and who gets to keep which donations, but she could keep it according to the experts. So that's a benefit. But you tell me, what would the calculation look like for those guys on that side who don't want her when it comes to that hundred million? If Joe Biden can't or won't release it and they don't want her, I think if I were a Democrat, I'd be telling myself, we'll raise more. We've got a lot of deep pockets. We'll ask George Clooney for half of it. You know, we got a lot of people who want to see an open contest. Don't worry about the 100 million. Or do you think that's big enough that they are going to very much worry about it?

Karine Jean-Pierre
Look, I think they have to worry about it because the reality is people like Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer and Pete buttigieg, they don't want Kamala to be the nominee because then she could possibly be there for eight years. I think she loses. But their calculus on their side where they literally, they literally live in an alternative universe, they think, oh, well, she'll beat Trump and then she'll be there for eight years. So these, you know, these people are power hungry. They are looking at their power. And when they can get it and they don't want to wait eight years again, they would much rather just support Joe like they are and let him go down and then they can come back in four years. Really, it's two and a half years when they start running their next presidential race. But remember, too, that the expense of rebranding is enormous in every single state, theyre going to have to print new signs. Theyre going to have to do new websites. Theyre going to have to completely redo all of the branding that theyve spent money on. The cost is enormous. And they are not able to just pick up and raise money with Gavin Newsom or Gretchen Whitmer. They have to stick with Kamala. The other thing is it could be really messy if they do open it up because there's a whole bunch of people that want to run. And as we see in California, the DEI programs are the ones that immediately rise to the top. And you'll have a lot of people saying it's my turn because of my gender, my sexual orientation or the color of my skin.

Megyn Kelly
Do you think Team Trump is ready for anyone? Right. We've all heard the same names on the alleged short list, and now it's gone beyond, you know, the new and exciting ones, according to the Democrats, are people like Gretchen Whitmer, Raphael Warnock down in Georgia.

We've heard some other names, Josh Shapiro out of Pennsylvania.

But I'm also hearing now that the circle enlarging to include people like Klobuchar, like Buttigieg, like some of the also rands who lost even Bernie Sanders to Joe Biden four years ago, do you think Team Trump is ready to run against any of those with Oppo, Oppo research at the ready?

Karine Jean-Pierre
Look, I go, the short answer is yes. But I go back to the fact that we are going to concentrate on the message, not just the messenger. Doesn't matter who their messenger is. They can get a bump. They can get a short term pop from a messenger. But they still are a party that is way far left, way woke. They don't want to have a closed border.

They think that inflation is fine. They're making excuses for why we don't have enough energy in our country and we see gas prices going crazy.

They don't have the answer on the message, on the policy. So it doesn't matter. But that list that you just gave of all the people that, that really might want to jump in, that is the exact reason why they won't have an open fight at the convention. They know it's a mess. They know a lot of hard feelings are going to come to the surface. They have to go with Kamala if Joe steps back. But I remain in the camp that Joe is their nominee. There's enough people that just say, leave them there and lose.

You know, let's support him, and then we all have a chance to fight it out later. They don't want to give Kamala Harris the leg up by saying, okay, she just gets to come in and become the nominee because we don't have enough time.

I also think that a lot of independents are going to see that as really crappy and undermining democracy. And we all said that this is what they were planning on doing and they denied it. So we're going to look like even more like a bunch of liars than what they are. And I think they suffer huge losses. They got to stick with Joe at the end of the day.

Megyn Kelly
On the subject of the Clooney op ed yesterday, there's reporting out today that the White House actually had a heads up. It hit Wednesday morning that they had a heads up on Tuesday he was going to do it, and they unleashed all their power to try to stop it, including dispatching Jeffrey Katzenberg, movie mogul in Hollywood who's co chairing the Biden campaign, to try to stop him from doing it.

Clooney doesn't answer to Jeffrey Katzenberg and refused to stop. By the way, not for nothing, but Jeffrey Katzenberg told me personally in 2016 he would spend any amount to get Hillary Clinton elected. We all saw how that worked out. So I know they're all drunk on their own perceived power. It's not as great as they think it is. But what do you think about this? You know, the reports out today that he ran it by Obama, that Obama had no objection. And I think you and I both know if Obama wanted to stop it, he could have. And there's probably a greater likelihood than not that he may have even orchestrated it. So Obama seems to want Biden gone. I think that's why he shepherded him off the stage with the arm at the fundraiser. It's why all of his guys, Axelrod, Bugala, Favreau, and more of that pod saving, they're all out there taking shots at Biden.

I don't think they'd all be doing that if Obama were firmly in the Biden camp. So does he still have any power?

Karine Jean-Pierre
Look, I think your monologue was brilliant on this subject, how you laid it out. People should go back and listen to it.

But you're exactly right. Obama could have stopped this. Now, whether or not he was pushing it and approving it is one thing, but he absolutely, absolutely could have stopped it. He didn't stop it. And all of his lieutenants are piling on. So I think it's a free for all from Team Obama.

They recognize that Joe was not really the best person to put forward.

Joe is ruining their brand.

I think it's a big problem for them. But I live in Los Angeles. I'm here in Los Angeles now. And I have to tell you, as much as I can't stand George Clooney's politics, he's touching on something that every progressive, every far lefty in Los Angeles is saying.

There's chaos in LA.

They don't want Joe Biden.

But these people are not political masters. They don't understand the process. So they think, oh, let's just switch them. When they learn, oh, wait, there was a Democrat process.

He's the nominee. You can't really switch it without opening it up. Then they're like, oh, no, this is terrible. The non political people are the ones that say, oh, well, let's just put in Michelle Obama or let's put in somebody that we think can beat Trump. But that's incredibly complicated. You can't just do that. And when the non political people in Los Angeles learn that, they just say, oh, wow, well, we're gonna lose. And so they're not giving as much. They're not gonna vote. I'm telling you, it's gonna be a bloodbath if we can use that term in an election. And not only is Joe Biden going to lose, but I think a lot of Democrats aren't going to get the support because people aren't going to come out to the polls. They're not that excited.

Megyn Kelly
Let me tell you something. Clooney's going to win either way because he's partners with Randy Gerber, Cindy Crawford's husband, and he's an entrepreneur on that liquor, you know, the one Casamigos. And I think they sold part of it, but they must still have some of it because Cindy Crawford was just out there pushing the Casa migas version of it, so that as the liquor sales go up along with the despondency, Clooney wins either way. But I do want to show you this. The crew over at morning Joe, which, you know, depending on the day they're with or for. Against, you know, Joe Biden, they were 100% in his pocket. And then they saw what we saw, and Joe Scarborough had a moment of honesty, like, he can't do it. Holy crap. And now, within, you know, a couple of days, he went back to. Never mind, never mind. I'm a bootlicker. That's where I'm most comfortable. And this is what they were saying about the Obama thing today.

Jon Favreau
My kids.

Megyn Kelly
Again, this wasn't George Clooney.

Jon Favreau
But what do you mean?

Karine Jean-Pierre
It just wasn't.

Megyn Kelly
Come on.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Who do you think it was? Matt Damon?

Megyn Kelly
It was not Matt Damon.

Jon Favreau
Who do you think it was?

Megyn Kelly
It wasn't Julia Roberts either.

Jon Favreau
Who do you think it was?

You can say the name you won't melt. It's not Voltamborg.

Are you saying you think Barack Obama put him up to this?

Megyn Kelly
I think that Barack Obama has a lot of influence. There were two people in this picture, and one has had a presidency that was absolutely, undeniably historic.

Jon Favreau
Yeah, well, I think you have two.

Megyn Kelly
People that had extraordinarily historic in terms of legislative accomplishments.

Jon Favreau
The Biden campaign.

And many democratic officials do believe that Barack Obama is quietly working behind the scenes to orchestrate this.

Joe Biden is deeply resentful of his treatment under not only the Obama staff, but also the way he was pushed aside for Hillary Clinton.

Megyn Kelly
Well, I think that's true. Rick, don't you pass the popcorn.

Karine Jean-Pierre
I'm here all day for this. I've been waking up and watching Morning Joe, I have to admit, because it is juicy and brilliant. They don't know what to do. There's a total meltdown. Every guest is shooting each other. They admit constantly I'm getting texts challenging me. What I'm saying.

They're not used to having dissenting views, Megan. They're not used to having media that ask tough questions. This is a party that has literally pushed propaganda and discipline amongst everyone, and they don't like dissenting views. And that's why they've been so easily convinced that they can crush conservative views on social media and cancel people because they do it all the time in their own party and nobody pushes back. So I love to watch what's happening right now. I'm a huge morning Joe fan. I'm watching every single episode because they made this bed and I want to watch them sleep in it.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. Roll around, feel the goodness. We'll all watch. It's like the weirdest porno ever.

Why? But we have to. It is kind of amazing. I'll say, right before we go to break, there's a little window here into what life would be like if you had an active, honest, press corps like cover.

Karine Jean-Pierre
That is such a brilliant point. Yes, yes.

Megyn Kelly
Imagine alternate universe, the sliding door, and it will slide back closed again just as soon as they decide who the democratic nominee will be. Rick Grinnell stays with me. Up next, wait until we hear what Ezra Klein admitted to on a podcast yesterday.

As we mentioned, President Biden is preparing for his so called big boy press conference. I'm telling you, this reminds me, I have a dentist, and I like my dentist, but every time I went in, I did invisalign not long ago. And every time I went in for a checkup, he, I'd say, how much longer? And he'd go, just another month if you're a good girl. And then I go back in, and he'd be like, but you've been a good girl, so you're going to get him up. And I went home to Doug, and I'm like, Doug, I don't know what to say to him. And he said, you just got to look at him and you got to say, you're going to have to find a different way of speaking to me. So I'm like, I'm doing it the next time I'm doing it. So I went in and I was all set to say this line to the dentist, but then he was so full of effusive praise of how well I'd been wearing the invisalign and how I got it over and done with in four months. I didn't have the guts to say it. And then Doug went into the dentist, same dentist, and said, gee, she loved the invisalign so much, maybe I should get the invisalign. And, you know, she just was such a big fan. And the dentist said, that's because she was a good girl.

Like, I was a german shepherd.

Karine Jean-Pierre
I.

Megyn Kelly
That's okay. We're in the same territory right now. They were having a big boy press conference tonight, and he's going to have to face off with the media, who are not happy with him unscripted while we wait to see what happens there. We'll have full coverage of that for you tomorrow.

The media, meantime, is turning its attention back to the real devil in this race, and that is, of course, Donald Trump. Yes, the New York Times is now calling on Americans to reject both of the presumptive nominees. Let's just clean slate it. Going in on the left, I guess we'll have Kamala Harris, and on the right, we'll have their preferred candidate of, like Mitt Romney or Adam Kinzinger. In an ominous looking editorial with a black background, the Times says in all caps that Mister Trump is dangerous in word, deed and action. As the reader scrolls down, it then reveals the words he puts self over country. Scroll further. He loathes the laws we live by. And then it ends with Donald Trump is unfit to lead.

Then there's once again President Biden's favorite morning show host, MSNBC's Joe Scarborough, who dramatically compared what America is facing right now to America in the run up to the civil war.

Jon Favreau
Democrats have to unite against the immediate threat before America's 240 year constitutional republic is no more. This result is not doubtful. Lincoln said, we shall not fail if we stand firm. We shall not fail if we stand together.

Because so said Lincoln then.

And so says a watchful and very worried nation now.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, well, while Scarborough wax is poetic about the grave threats of Donald Trump, who he supported his entire campaign for the White House, was only when he found out, reportedly, that he wasn't going to be the vice presidential nominee or in the president's cabinet, that he turned on him.

It seems that many people in the media have failed to recognize. One of the most troubling aspects of the whole story, and that is his hypocrisy, his ongoing lying. People like Scarborough and that of the press and the Democrats, the american people continue to be lied to daily over and over again. We are seeing examples of the politicians, these are Democrats, the media, and the president's backers, saying one thing in private and something very, very different in public from the people who attended the president's fundraisers and didn't say a word about how feeble he was. We went over that to the so called leaders of this country. As we reported in our first hour, Politico reporting that speaker emirates, as Nancy Pelosi calls herself, as privately, suggested to some half a dozen lawmakers, that President Biden's not going to win and he should step aside. But on camera, she's not saying that. And apparently she's not alone. The New York Times is. Ezra Klein dropped this bombshell. The New York Times, that's the one who just did the unfit. Scary. All caps. All right there. Ezra Klein just dropped this bombshell on the bulwark podcast that top Democrats tell him. Off the record, of course, they don't actually see Donald Trump as an existential threat. Listen, I think it is clear people are weighing the set of things.

It would be quite unpleasant for me personally to come out against the president as an elected official in the Democratic Party and weighing what will happen if.

Nancy Pelosi
Donald Trump wins and saying, in a revealed preference way, I can live with Donald Trump winning.

Megyn Kelly
And I've had people say that to.

Nancy Pelosi
Me, off the record, to be fair.

Megyn Kelly
I have had top democrats say to me basically something like, I don't know why all these Democrats who think Donald Trump is an existential threat to democracy.

Nancy Pelosi
Are acting the way they are.

Megyn Kelly
But the reason I'm acting the way I am is because I don't think that. Who the fuck is this?

Jon Favreau
Who are your sources, Ezra? I mean, I'm about to be in leaking text mode over here myself.

Megyn Kelly
Like, that is crazy.

Nancy Pelosi
I guess it's consistent, but it's maddening.

Megyn Kelly
No, I find it maddening, but I.

Nancy Pelosi
Do find it consistent.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Right?

Nancy Pelosi
I do find it to be a.

Megyn Kelly
Look, you can say this is true in a lot of things, right? It's a charge republicans always throw at liberals, which is that if they really believe climate change is such a problem, they wouldn't fly on planes.

This is amazing. Back with me now, Rick Grinnell. So they lifted the dress up, Rick, and under there, they found a bunch of Democrats who are ready to vote Trump, or at least don't really find him that big a problem.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Yeah, they're undermining their message. They're saying their message is not working. Look what you're missing through all of this conversation, morning Joe and all the others, they're not talking policies, they're not defending their policies. They're literally talking about everything else. I mean, morning Joe was telling people to stand together in a very whispered way. The morning Joe guests are not even standing together.

They can't get the democratic party to stand together, let alone the entire country. We have been gaslit. We knew that Joe Biden was absolutely declining, and yet they decided to tell us that we were all cheap fakes and they were going to have their primary anyway, and anyone who challenged him got silenced. I had a Wall Street Journal reporter yesterday tell me when I was pushing back on this whole narrative that she suddenly now sees what's going on. And I said, oh, please.

You have been watching this train wreck for years. This is about you and the media as much as it's about Joe Biden. And you know what she said to me when we tried to bring anything up? They cut us out. They froze us out. We didn't have any access.

They've weaponized the press corps into dutiful people. There's no speaking truth to power from this press corps. They're all nervous about not being able to have access to the power brokers. But everything flips. If Donald Trump comes in and the press is suddenly going to be vicious attack dogs. I love your point, Megan, about imagine a world where we just had skeptical media for both sides. We would be so much better off. I believe.

One, you wouldn't have Joe Biden at the top of the ticket because he would have been gone through some sort of scrutiny in the beginning. We wouldn't even have Kamala Harris. Because if you're a California politician, you're never scrutinized, you're never vetted. Our media here just let the deis rise to the top while those straight white guy at the top is picking all of these other people.

And so we have to have a world where the media absolutely does their job. I hope that this is a moment that shakes them and that they begin to say, okay, we got to change the way we're teaching journalists. We can't have recycle and repeat. We can't use each other as sources. There's a whole bunch that needs to change. I think the older journalists know this, but we got a generation of young journalists who are absolutely terrible at doing real journalism. And I think this is the moment.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, I'll tell you this, if Trump wins, their skepticism will remain intact. They can ride their existing skepticism right now all the way through the next three years. Right?

Karine Jean-Pierre
Of course.

Megyn Kelly
And try to pretend they've turned over a new leaf. There was an interesting moment on CNN yesterday where the reporter was wrapping her report about the Clooney situation, and she included the Biden White House's response. And Jake Tapper responded almost incredulously. In a way, I just, I have to say, I do not think we would have seen three months ago. Watch this clip.

A campaign official who attended that Los Angeles fundraiser tells me that George Clooney left 3 hours before the president. So clearly the gloves are off, Jake.

Jon Favreau
But what does that mean that George Clooney left for?

Nancy Pelosi
What's, what's the, the point?

Megyn Kelly
The point of that is to suggest that Biden's stamina is better than Clooney's. And Clooney didn't have, you know, eyes on the entire event. That's the response to, to the Clooney op ed. Ok.

He's kind of laughing at it because it is laughable. I mean, whoever, whatever you think of George Clooney, to suggest he has less stamina than Joe Biden is a joke. The media does seem to be, you know, opening its eyes, at least to Biden's flaws. And it's so much, Rick, that they're now piling on like you're hearing more and more talk of he's a hero. He's a great man, but his whole legacy is going to be destroyed if he doesn't leave voluntarily. Like we, the media giveth and the media taketh away. We will ruin you unless you do what we want. Here's Chuck Todd, and it has made.

Nancy Pelosi
Me want to rethink a lot of the Biden biography. I still can't believe he ran for president in the first place, given that his family was in crisis in 2018. That I look, you look at what has happened, I can't believe he put his family through this.

And now looking at his behavior now in clinging to this, I think the entire narrative on Joe Biden is going to change and that he's always been, everything has been about his ambition, and his ambition comes first.

Megyn Kelly
It's amazing. I mean, I'm sorry, but like, we're talking about CNN and NBC here, Rick.

Karine Jean-Pierre
It's pathetic because it is still, you know, it's about power. It's about the media losing their power of their party, the Democrats losing an election. This is not about the greater good. And I'm sorry, I don't believe that reporters eyes are just suddenly opened. This is not the case. They have known this. They're propagandists. They're Democrats. Democrats. They are big mad that they are losing. They thought they could do a Covid style shakedown of the american people once again by pretending like Joe Biden is there and then they're handed to Kamala.

They were caught.

They are plagiarists. They're propagandists. They're liars. We have to fix this system.

I'm sorry. I don't have one iota of sympathy for these reporters. They knew. They've been watching in a front row seat and suddenly now they're embarrassed because they were caught. They don't have newfound eyes.

Chuck Todd is pathetic when he tries to say, oh, I'm rethinking the whole biography. You should rethink your entire journalism career. You're supposed to be skeptical. He is a player on the democratic side.

This has got to change. It's ruining our country. Washington, DC has no credibility. Everyone else outside is laughing seeing that the king and all of the court has no clothes on.

And yet they don't get it.

Megyn Kelly
They're just wisely telling us that he is not naked. They've been telling us that all along. He's clothed. He's clothed. And we knew here, I mentioned this the other day, but it's worthy of a read.

Matt Taibbi, via his racket news substack, had a piece the other day. It's called the lies continue as a matter of principle. And this is, to your point, of how the White House press corps has been, it's been co opted.

They've been beaten into submission.

But like that Wall Street Journal reporter said, if you said that to me while I was covering the White House or whatever, I would run on the air and tell everybody that you just said to you, right, I would expose whoever did that to me.

And this is the kind of the point that Matt's making. He writes and he's made a whole career of annoying people, so he means it. He's talking about Bryan Stelter doing this navel gazing piece. Like, did we really screw up? Was it really us? And he says, by itself, this is an insult. Audiences know the answer. Yes. Also, this is not a Biden age story, but a Biden dementia story. A flood of these stelter style wither us features asking if the press missed the Biden incapacity story, have arrived. And he says, and I feel like screaming, you are only talking to each other. Peter Baker of the New York Times, which is still congratulating itself for its behind the scenes Biden increasingly is a vegetable story from Tuesday, offered the most shameful line. This is Taibbi quoting Baker. Quote, they really hate us over these stories. The administration's pushback is pretty strong, and their resentment of the coverage is pretty deep, to the point that they'd, that they've complained to our editors. Taibbi, a beat writer who says they complained to my editors on the record, might as well be wearing a hat reading, ask me about my missing balls.

The whole point of having personality, a personality like, say, Seymour Hirsch, formerly of the New York Times, the New Yorker, is to make even the White House afraid of calling your editor.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Yeah. Look, I've been in and around Washington, DC for more than 25 years.

We have a crisis in journalism because all of these people, Peter Baker, all of them, they get their entire existence out of their social status in Washington, DC. They're friends with these people. Megan. The reason why they're so devastated that someone's calling their editor is because it's like their friend, their teammate from the White House. The people that they socialize with, that they love, that they spend Christmas with, these people are turning on them and they're mad at them. So they're upset that their friends are turning on them. They need to act like journalists. They need to not be friends with political people. I know you can be nice, and I'm not saying that we need to have a system where you can't go to dinner and you can't be friends.

I'm close friends with a lot of reporters. I don't trust any of them.

They're not my close, close friends. They are people that should act like journalists to me. Yes. Can they have humanity? And can we congratulate each other on moments where you achieve something or your daughter graduates from college? Yes, you can be an actual human, but you cannot be deep friends with somebody that you're supposed to be holding to account. I'm sorry. That is just not going to work. And the problem with Washington, DC, they're all intermixed now. Lobbyists, Democrat staffers, Democrat politicians, the Mediaev bureaucrats. All of them go to church together. They socialize together. We've got to stop. The rest of us outside of Washington, DC have to stop asking these people to hold each other to account and to shrink the budget of Washington, DC, or somehow become less powerful in Washington, DC. They're never going to do it. It would be akin like coming to Los Angeles and saying, hey, guys, I've got a great idea. Let's get rid of movies.

Everyone in this town is going to attack you. And that's what's happening in Washington. They're all too familiar with each other. No one is actually speaking truth to power. There's no courage. They're all just existing together and watching the big budget and big powerful government get even stronger every single day.

Megyn Kelly
God, everything you said is so correct.

I want to ask you, before I let you go, about the RNC next week. I mean, I kind of see it as somewhat unfortunate timing because Trump's been doing such a good job of just letting Biden twist in the wind that, you know, he must take center stage. But that's fine. I think Republicans will be very enthusiastic. And I, as you point out, I think his messaging next week will be about the Democrats. Doesn't have to be about Joe Biden, has to be about the Democrats and what they've done. All of these Democrats are talking about replacing Joe Biden with, are going to do exactly what Joe Biden's been doing.

But in any event, it's a big event. And yesterday we had on the show Tulsi Gabbard, who I asked her about the reported short list of Rubio, JD Vance and Doug Bergam.

I point out again to the audience, this time in 16, at this point in the race, Mike Pence was barely a footnote to the list of possible vps. For Trump. It was all about Newt Gingrich.

No. Okay, so it was very wrong last time and it could be very wrong this time. But she said absolutely not to Rubio, in her view, called him a neocon establishment warmonger and said of the list, she's heard it absolutely should not be him. Do you have any thoughts or insight on who's likely to get it? Trump's saying this week he wants to announce it at the convention to gin up, you know, excitement.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Well, first of all, let me take the first point because I got something to say about the timing of the convention. You're exactly right on that. Remember, Republicans are going first and then we, you've got two weeks of the Olympics and then the Democrats go. So they are very lucky in that they're going to get this two week period where the world is going to focus on the Olympics. Certainly NBC and MSNBC is going to, they're going to have to get their monies out of the Olympics. So they're going to be trying to push those messaging that's a reprieve for the Democrats. They get a little time to figure things out. So going so early, I think is a disadvantage for Republicans on the vp search. I will just say you won't be surprised. I'm not going to give my opinion. I'm somebody who I think I know a little bit too much. I certainly don't know who the president's going to pick. Nobody knows who the president's going to pick. But I will say this. There's a lot of people on the list.

I don't believe that it's just those three people that he's considering. I think he's considering a whole bunch of people.

And anybody who talks about knowing who's up, who's down, who's out, I think is just blabbering. President Trump keeps that pretty close to his chest and he's going to pick somebody from a large pool of people that are going to be better than Kamala Harris for sure.

Megyn Kelly
Well, it was November of 2022 when you came on this show and had a warning for those throwing their hats into the presidential race on behalf of Team Trump. And it was put on your big boy pants.

It ain't beanbag.

Karine Jean-Pierre
It's politics. So put on your big boy pants. No complaining. Don't say he's too mean. This is the primary. We're confident that if Donald Trump runs, Donald Trump is the nominee.

Megyn Kelly
I feel that they got the message at the White House. We'll look forward to the big boy press conference and can't wait. I hope to see you next week.

Karine Jean-Pierre
All the best.

Megyn Kelly
See you soon.

I can't even believe that's become a thing, but it has. When we come back, one of the smartest men in politics. He's been covering them for it for years and years and years, including with me back at Fox News. And can I tell you, the man coming on is responsible in a real way for my entire career on television. Bill Salmon is here next. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love great people like Doctor Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

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So glad to bring on my former colleague, longtime journalist Bill Salmon, for the first time on the show during this historic week. Bill Salmon, the man responsible for my television career. Great to see you.

Nancy Pelosi
It's so good to see you. Megan, you're being way too generous. I wish I could claim credit for your television career, but I played a very minor role.

Megyn Kelly
No, it's not true. So I'll tell the audience what I'm talking about. Way, way back when I was, I mean, I had gotten on television. I was working part time at the ABC affiliate in Washington, DC. It was my first attempt at tv, that job.

I was invited by that affiliate to go to the White House or to the radio and television correspondence dinner. That's the dinner depicted in broadcast news. And I was so excited because I'd seen broadcast news a million times. I loved news. I loved my budding career. I was over being a lawyer, but I was still working part time as a lawyer.

And I remember going to the hairstylist before the event, and I said, I've got a black dress and I've got a hot pink dress. What do you think? And she said, do you want to stand out? And I said, yes. She said, go with the hot pink. So I wore the hot pink dress. I went to the dinner. I didn't know anybody. I knew, like one person from WJLA. And I met this very tall man just sitting there. We were both getting a drink named Bill Salmon and had no idea who you were or what you did. And we started to talk. And at the end of the conversation, you said, have you gotten your tape to fox yet?

And I said, no. And I really didn't know that much about Fox. And you said, think about it. Here's my card. Call me, you know, if you have any interest. And I did call you, and you helped get my tape to Kim Hume, who is the DC bureau chief. And then the rest, as they say, is history.

Nancy Pelosi
Yeah, that was, that was so much fun. You know, that was 20 years ago. Can you believe that?

I remember being at that party. I was standing at one of those high top tables talking with a guy named Marshall Sella from the New York Times magazine, really good guy. And you walked in in that pink dress, and for whatever crazy reason, you headed over our way and started engaging us in conversation. And I was so incredibly impressed with your wit, with your, you know, just your, an incredible intelligence. And you were telling me that you were, as you said, working part time as a local tv reporter and part time as Jones, I think it was Jones Day as the law firm and said something along the lines of, and it was sort of half serious. I said, well, you want to come over to Fox News? Now, at that time, I wasn't an employee. I was a contributor. And I remember your response, and you may not remember this, but you said something deprecating, like, you know, I haven't really covered any national, you know, international stuff. And I said, listen, Megan, I'm too green.

Megyn Kelly
I said, yes.

Nancy Pelosi
I said, cable news is the land of instant expertise. Do you think I knew what I was going to talk about when I went on Britt Hume show tonight when I woke up this morning? No, I studied up on it and faked it. Anyway, you're right. I got you over there to meet with Kim Hume, and then you took it from there. And wow, what a career. It's been. It's been fantastic.

Megyn Kelly
Well, it's wonderful to be back together and I appreciate you being here. And what a time. My God. I mean, in those 20 years or before, Bill, have you ever seen anything like what's happening on the Dem side right now?

Nancy Pelosi
No. And, you know, I've been sort of retired for a few years, but I've come back into it in recent months. I'm doing some consulting work and kind of getting back into the game. And what I used to tell myself during my retirement, Washington, this is great because the national conversation has gotten so dumb. I'm so glad to be out of it. But I'll tell you, I happen to get back into it and it got real interesting real fast. This is bonkers to be able to cover these consequential monumental developments. And we think we've seen some big stuff in the last two and a half weeks. Wait for the next four months. I mean, all of the scenarios in front of us are crazy. And I mean, even though the least, you know, even the most likely scenarios are going to be extraordinary. So, yeah, this is a great time to be in the business. No matter what your politics are or preferences are, just covering these big stories.

Megyn Kelly
Is a blast because the Dems aren't done with their law fair against Trump. It's been gutted, but they're not done. And I still, I haven't counted Jack Smith out of taking just the things Trump's lawyer admitted at the Supreme Court argument are not official acts and filing a new indictment just based on those, something Trump can't now go back on. He's got to admit that those were not official acts. So there's no immunity and try to indict him and go forward with a jiffy quick trial with a very friendly judge to the prosecution before, it's not going to happen before November, but before inauguration, that's before j six. That's what they're looking to do. So all the action won't be on the Dem side. There's still going to be some action over on the GOP side because the Dems are going to go down swinging.

I want to tell you this just hit from NBC News and reporter Amanda Turkle, who reports as follows. Several of Biden's closest allies, including three people directly involved in the reelection efforts tell and then she named three reporters.

They now see his chances of winning as zero. These are several of his closest allies. Quote, he needs to drop out. One campaign official said he will never recover from this. Quote, no one involved in the effort thinks he has a path, said a second person working to elect him.

I think they're right. But I don't like stay overstate it, but I think that that's the smart analysis. What do you think?

Nancy Pelosi
I think it is right. And every day when I follow the story, I take my own sort of gut check and I ask myself what percentage do I think the likelihood of Joe Biden getting out? And it was the first few days it was at 90% and then theres an ebb and flow to the story. And you saw a few days back when he started kind of getting back in the game and my percentage went down to 60%. It was, it's back at 95, 98 now. Because the inevitability of it is so overpowering. When you look at Nancy Pelosi's statements yesterday, when you look at just, you don't have to read the tea leaves. It is just so blatantly obvious he is going to be convinced against his will to change his mind. That is almost certainly the case. I mean, look, is there a tiny chance that he just, against all the advice, against all the urgings, he puts his head down and grinds it out to the convention? Yeah, but even then I think at that point it will be such, it'll be so contentious that I wouldn't rule out. Now, this is probably the least likely of all the crazy scenarios out there, but I still think I wouldn't rule out the idea that they could try to forcibly remove him. You've touched on this before, the language which says, in good conscience, we delegates have pledged to vote for Joe Biden. Well, that's a pretty big loophole because in good conscience, if you think that the guy's not up to the job and your conscience doesn't allow you to vote for him, that's a pretty big out. Now, I don't think it'll get to that, but I think if necessary, the Democrats are prepared to go there because they have a very strong survival instinct.

The Democratic Party, like any political party, you saw this in 2020 when they almost inexplicably nominated Bernie Sanders to be the nominee, which was, I thought would have been political suicide heading into that election, just given the realities of the politics. I thought Trump would have, you know, would easily beaten him. But they came to their senses and belatedly kind of rallied around Joe Biden, who was viewed as, well, he's not that far left, so we could probably get him. And you're seeing the same thing happen in slow motion here, this idea that, well, maybe Biden can get in. No. Everyone is coming to the conclusion that we're going to lose. We're going to lose the White House. We're going to lose the House. They're already going to lose the Senate before this debacle. And here's the big thing, Megan, and you as a lawyer and a former supreme court watcher and a current Supreme Court watcher, this doesn't get enough attention.

It is terrifying to Democrats that this man, Donald John Trump, who has already appointed a third of the Supreme Court justices, may well, by the end of this drama, have appointed two thirds of the Supreme Court justices. I don't know if he's going to get three picks, but he'll get several. And that alone is terrifying when you think about, from the democratic perspective, when you think about how they view the Dobbs decision and all these other decisions and lots of developments, not to mention the other judiciary further down on, on the bench, on the court. So, yeah, this is really a bad time for Democrats. And I think they are determined to get him off the ticket.

Megyn Kelly
That's a good point about the Supreme Court. We're going to hear the din in the wake of this disaster for Sotomayor to leave the bench at, what is she, 70? Grow even louder than it's been right there. She's relatively young, but she's not in the best health. But, I mean, it would be, this is a young age for somebody to go. But we already heard it. We heard somebody say Kagan should go. Kagan is young and has a long future ahead of her. But they just want to make sure nothing happens to their, you know, they want somebody who's basically 33 to be appointed to the bench by whoever's running the show over there in the Biden White House. And right now they control the Senate. And thanks to the Republicans getting rid of the filibuster, which was in response to the Democrats getting rid of it for younger, for lower court judges, they do control the Senate. Right now. Listen to this. This just broke.

The NATO leaders are speaking out now. This is via Politico. Behind the smiling handshakes, NATO leaders are unnerved by a weakened Biden. Quote, you're worried if he knows which direction he's going or whether he's going to fall or what he's going to forget, said one senior european diplomat. Just what's interesting about it is that they're talking and that the press is reporting it. And then secondly, there's this by Ed Okeeffe with CB's, who says, as follows, he's gotten, he's gotten his hands on the memo that's going to be shared with democratic senators later today. The top members of the Joe Biden campaign are going over to try up, to shore up support with them. Quote, there is no, there's no indication that anyone else would outperform the president against Trump. Hypothetical polling of alternative, alternative nominees will always be unreliable, and surveys do not take into account the negative media environment that any democratic nominee will encounter. The only democratic candidate for whom this is already baked in is President Biden.

That's an interesting argument because I do think bill, the press, yes, republican commentators will probably take shots at whoever steps in, but the press is democratic. They're largely Democrats, and the press is going to anoint anyone not named Biden. Am I wrong?

Nancy Pelosi
No. And you're actually exactly right.

The press will, there'll be a rally around the beleaguered democratic ticket effect, whether it's Harris or somebody else. And believe me, you're already seeing foreshadowings of this, where it's going to be, let's win one for Joe. Let's win one for the Gipper. He's a hero. Now, you saw this even in Clooney's, you know, op ed yesterday where he said, you could be the hero. So there will be this sort of gross hero worship and they'll carry him, hoist him up on their shoulders and march him around like we're winning this for Joe. And I'll tell you, the relief, the relief of just succeeding in getting Biden off the top of the ticket will translate into an enthusiasm among Democrats, especially if it, obviously, it's going to be a younger, more vigorous candidate, no matter who it is. That will translate into, yes, these polls that show that Biden is too old, none of that, all of that is a moot point. Now we have a young vigorous, and we're going to defeat the evil and the conversation will turn back to Trump and the press will be so vested and they'll be so excited in covering this shiny new object, whoever it is, that that'll count for a lot of points when it comes to voting.

Megyn Kelly
It's also going to relieve the press in a way of its responsibility in covering this whole thing up. To begin with, if Biden stays in the role, runs and loses, the come to Jesus moment that's going to happen after the loss is going to include the media. But if they can sub him out and participate in anointing the new Democrat, it's all forgotten. We won in the end. That's the important thing.

Nancy Pelosi
Yeah. Yeah. The media is quite conflicted right now. There's so many different impulses. On the one hand, they're embarrassed by the fact that they know they didn't, they didn't cover this story sufficiently. That is Biden's cognitive decline.

They're angry at the, at the White House and the campaign, campaign for allegedly hiding this from the press. When I think it was pretty clear to the press and all of us that what was going on. If you look at the polls, they're alarmed that Trump will win. Now, I mean, that's a big impulse in the press, but at the same time, in their dark little hearts, most of these folks are reporters and journalists. And so they're also excited, like you and I are, about the prospect of covering this. But so there's a real witch's brew of impulses that are mixing around in their heads. But yeah, they are not happy about how they are looking and how this came out. Because again, and I know you've made this point on your show before, you look at, you talked about the foreign leaders and they're sort of saying, hey, what are we going to do with this guy?

You look at his recent trips to Europe when he's wandering away from the italian prime minister when he's, you know, doing all these things? And we were told, you haters, you terrible haters. He was obviously looking at the guy parachuting or George Clooney. George Clooney, the host of the biggest democratic fundraiser in american history, gave this guy $30 million. George Clooney now says, yeah, he was every bit as bad at the fundraiser as he was at the debate. Well, then why didn't George Clooney tell us that? Didn't he have an obligation to tell us that until, you know, he waited until after it became manifestly obvious to all of us by watching that debate? Now he comes out after, you know, by the way, two or two weeks plus after that debate and says, yeah, actually, guys, he was like that. What were we told when we saw the footage of that fundraiser when Biden was led off the stage by Barack Obama? Obama.

You haters. You terrible, biased haters. He was simply basking in the applause for a few moments. And Biden, you know, and Obama kind of, you know, put his arm around him. And so it was all true. And the cheap fakes and. And the Robert Herr, you know, he's an elderly man with a forgetful memory. Oh, my gosh, this special counsel is such a partisan. How could he. That's so inappropriate. No, it was an extraordinary thing to say, but he saw how extraordinary the situation was and he had to cover his own rear end by making sure. I'm putting this in the report. This guy is.

Megyn Kelly
If anything, it was understated. I mean, the media is mad. They knew, but they didn't. The way I see it is we all knew he was at an eight. The only thing we learned that night was he's at a ten on this infirmity scale. So, ok, I'll give the media some outrage over the last two points, but those who didn't report this story when he was at an eight have no right. They've lost their standing to complain. Meanwhile, they see him out there. Each day has been a new test, which is all a lie. They've seen enough. They know whatever happens at the presser. But day after day, he's what he's always been, but especially over the past three years, a gaff machine. Here he is last night at the White House NATO dinner.

Watch this.

Nancy Pelosi
The allies in this room not only.

Megyn Kelly
Share a common language, don't share a common language.

Nancy Pelosi
We do not share a common border.

Megyn Kelly
But we are neighbors. We're neighbors.

Okay.

He can't. He cannot string two sentences together even.

Nancy Pelosi
In the prompter and you know, look, it's not his fault the guy got old. I mean, it's coming for all of us. And you know, you set aside the policy, set aside the politics. This is about biology, this is about actuarial tables. It is not his fault that he got old. It may be his fault that he's trying to stay into the race when he probably shouldn't be in the race, but it's beyond his control. The fact that he has gone into this cognitive decline, he will eventually be made to realize that he's going to have to get off that ticket. It, but it's hard. I mean, I tell you, I prayed for Joe Biden the Sunday after the debate, just as a fellow human being. Like, oh, you know, I felt sorry for the guy. And by the way, in politics, when it's one thing to get your brains beat in by your opponent in politics, and that's a tough day at the office, when your opponent or what others start to pity you or feel sorry for you, it is overdeveloped. It's over.

Megyn Kelly
Especially as a man. I mean, especially as a man. I know I have empathy for his condition and position as a human.

I do put most of the blame on his wife. I have to be honest, his family, because I've had family members deteriorate. And once they've deteriorated, it's hard to say the decision making should be on them.

There comes a point in time, and I believe he's there, where the decision making has to be made by those around the person who truly love them and want to see what's best for them. And Jill Biden wasn't elected to do first what's best for the country. She's elected to do what's best for him.

You know, in, in their marriage vows that she elected that. For that, it's just deeply wrong that she's not doing it.

I'll say this, Bill, this just broke from the Times.

It's, it's correct.

A small group of Mister Biden's advisors in the administration and the campaign, at least two of whom have told allies they do not believe he should keep trying to run for a second term, have said they'd have to convince the president of several things to get him to drop out. One, they would have to make the case to the president, who remains convinced of the strength of his campaign, that he cannot win against Trump.

They would have to persuade him to believe that another candidate like Harris could beat Trump.

And they would have to assure Mister Biden that should he step aside, the process to choose another candidate would be orderly and not devolve into chaos in the Democratic Party. And on the subject of number two, I mean, it is pretty interesting. Like, could Kamala Harris beat Trump and will Joe Biden lose? You know, there was, there was a Washington Times poll, sorry, Washington Post poll that just came out today that had just a sliver of good news for Joe Biden. But the Post admits that its own poll is an outlier.

It's of registered voters. Right. Not as good as likely. And it said that put this race at a dead heat. 46 46 doesn't have the battlegrounds.

But it does say, it points out that across eight other post debate national polls tracked by the Post, Trump is leading by 3.5 percentage points. So that's the kind of thing, that's the Democrats who want him gone. That's their worst nightmare. Any ammo that Joe Biden can use to make himself believe I can do this.

Nancy Pelosi
Yeah. And, you know, I think that you're right. The post was, and they acknowledged they were a bit of an outlier when it came to the just top line, you know, who's, who's ahead. I think it was 46 46 in the poll, Trump and Biden. But you're right about the Harris thing. And here's the move for Harris, because, look, it is very likely that Joe Biden, like we've discussed, is going to probably end up getting off the top of the ticket. So then the question becomes, who's going to be the standard bearer? And I agree that with a conventional wisdom that the default position, or certainly the favorite you'd have to give her that status would be Harris. I mean, she's the vice president. She has the institutional legitimacy to an extent that the others don't. She has the war chest and on and on and on. But I think Harris is also aware of what everyone else is aware of and what everyone else is talking about, which is to say her weak points, she was a terrible campaigner winner. She wasn't considered a very particularly good vice president. And so I think to compensate for those or to mitigate those coming out of the gate, I think it would behoove her to very quickly, if not immediately, select a vice presidential running mate for herself from among the top tier of people who are otherwise being considered as possibly the next top of the ticket, like Andy Bashir is the governor of Kentucky, or if you want to go with an all woman ticket, you know, Gretchen Whitmer or governor of Michigan or whomever it is.

Yeah, if you co opt one of those other sort of top tier people that are being considered. You take some of the wind out of the sails of the camp that says, well, let's not do a coronation with Harris. Let's, you know, let's make it an open convention. And so everybody gets a fair shot. And I think even Harris, from her perspective, has to sort of go along with that thinking to it. To an extent, she has to. In other words, she'd love a coronation. But she also knows the optics of a coronation probably aren't going to fly. So she'll have to at least play along with some sort of a token competition. And I think she would go a long way if she would again co op somebody that's more likable than herself. And by the way, from that person's perspective, whether it's bashir or whether it's Whitmer or whomever, I think a lot of these people whose names are being talked about as possible, you know, presidential candidates at this late stage are loathed to be the person that elbows aside the african american woman within the Democratic Party. So I think they might look at this and say, you know, it might be the path to the presidency, which is where I want to get to, might be better through the vice presidency if I get on the ticket, I don't have to be seen as the heavy and knocking, you know, the black woman aside. And, you know, I'm poised after she's done with her presidency, assuming she wins. That's a big if that, you know, I'd be, you know, next in line to run for the thing. So I think that's the calculations that's.

Megyn Kelly
Going through everybody's head on the subject we're discussing for the New York Times. Just breaking. The Biden campaign is quietly testing Kamala's chances to beat Trump. If Biden were to set a step aside, that's the Biden campaign doing that. Now, I'm sure they're doing it for two reasons. Number one, they need it, pursuant to the Times reporting, to convince Joe Biden to step aside. They need something to show him she's polling better than you are against him. And number two, they want to know themselves whether she can do it.

This breaking, as axios is now reporting that, that President Biden is poised to face a sudden flood of new statements from House Democrats urging him to exit the race regardless of what happens. At his NATO big boy presser tonight, according to more than half a dozen lawmakers, this isn't, this didn't go the way the White House wanted it to go this week. They had a period where things were looking a little better and it was all downhill from there. Bill, I'll give you the last word on where you think we'll be 72 hours from now. Now?

Nancy Pelosi
Well, I think he may be out in 72 hours. And I think the Democratic Party looking at the trauma that is ahead of them, if they're going to go through all that trouble and all that pain, they may be willing to go the extra yard and say, yeah, we're not going to coronate Kamala Harris because we're not going to go through all this trouble to end up with someone that we think is also going to lose. So if they conclude that she's not electable either, they'll, you know, take their chances with offending black voters and skip over her, maybe put a Westmore or some other African American at the top of the ticket. But they don't want to go through all this trouble and trauma just to lose anyway.

Megyn Kelly
That's exactly right. I mean, they, they've, they need to win. That's what they want more than anything. And not just the White House. They need to hold on to the Senate, which, as you point out, is extremely unlikely and possibly take the house. And they, they're just, I don't see there them going down without swinging just because they don't want to offend the Kamala Harris fans. There are ways of appeasing those people without elevating an equally unelectable person. Bill Salmon, what a time. Please come back soon.

Nancy Pelosi
Thank you.

Karine Jean-Pierre
Megan.

Nancy Pelosi
Family.

Megyn Kelly
All right. We're going to be watching the big boy press conference tonight. We'll bring you your big boy news tomorrow with Michael Knowles, plus, a deep dive on what the polls are actually showing. See you then.

Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No b's, no agenda, and no fear.

Is Obama Orchestrating Biden's Exit, and Media Elite Start Telling Truth, with Ric Grenell and Bill Sammon | Ep. 835

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