Hunter Biden Texts Torpedo His Defense, and Kamala Calls Trump "Cheater," with Viva Frei and Phil Holloway | Ep. 810

This episode delves into the legal controversies surrounding Hunter Biden and Donald Trump, featuring critical analysis from legal experts Viva Frei and Phil Holloway.

1. Hunter Biden's text messages are used as key evidence in his trial, casting doubt on his defense regarding his drug use and gun purchase.
2. Vice President Kamala Harris's remarks on Trump post-conviction highlight political tensions and the ongoing fallout from his presidency.
3. The episode highlights concerns about media bias and the integrity of federal investigations.
4. Discussions include broader implications of these legal battles on public trust in the justice system and political institutions.
5. The experts debate potential outcomes and the impact of these cases on future political and legal landscapes.

1: Introduction and Overview

Megyn Kelly sets the stage for a discussion on Hunter Biden's legal issues and Kamala Harris's comments about Donald Trump. Megyn Kelly: "Welcome to a packed episode as we dive into high-stakes legal drama involving some of the most controversial figures in current American politics."

2: Hunter Biden's Legal Troubles

An in-depth look at the charges against Hunter Biden, including his alleged falsehoods on a gun application due to drug use. Phil Holloway: "The text messages paint a stark picture of Hunter's state during the gun purchase—hard to see how he skirts this legally."

3: Kamala Harris's Commentary

Analysis of Kamala Harris's public condemnation of Donald Trump as a "cheater," and its implications. Viva Frei: "This isn't just about the legal ramifications but also about how political battles are fought in the public arena."

4: Media and Political Bias

Discussion on how media coverage and political bias can influence public perception and judicial outcomes. Megyn Kelly: "The media's role in shaping this narrative cannot be understated—it's about framing the story as much as reporting it."

1. Stay Informed: Regularly update yourself on legal and political developments to understand their broader implications.
2. Critical Analysis: Always question the sources of your news and the potential biases they may carry.
3. Engage in Discussion: Discuss these issues in community or online forums to foster a more informed and engaged public.
4. Support Judicial Integrity: Advocate for transparency and fairness in legal proceedings, regardless of political affiliations.
5. Educate Others: Share insights from credible sources to combat misinformation and encourage informed opinions.

Megyn Kelly is joined by legal experts Viva Frei and Phil Holloway to discuss how Hunter Biden's very real laptop is taking center stage in his current trial, how the laptop was spun by "intel officials" at the time as Russian disinformation, the way the media was more than happy to participate in the propaganda, the double standard about the laptop and Trump’s supposed "election interference," the details of what Hunter Biden is accused of regarding the gun forms, obvious proof that Hunter was addicted to and still using crack cocaine when he bought the gun, his incriminating text messages with his brother’s widow, how VP Kamala Harris calling former President Trump a “cheater" on Jimmy Kimmel's show, the left politicizing the DOJ and the justice system, the audio excerpts from Hunter Biden’s memoir about his drug use that the jury is hearing, the stalled status of Trump’s Georgia case, whether Fani Willis will get removed from it, and more.

People

Hunter Biden, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump

Companies

None

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Viva Frei, Phil Holloway

Content Warnings:

None

Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show. My God, the show we have for you today. Stay tuned.

The vice president of the United States has decided to weigh in on Trump's conviction. Last week, the White House has been so careful. Joe Biden only said convicted felon behind closed doors. Then boom, Kamala Harris goes on with Jimmy Kimmel and drops a bomb, saying, this is what happens when you're a cheater.

He's a cheater.

This is going to play in, I'm going to play it for you in a second perfectly to what's happening right now with Hunter Biden. All right. There's a lot to discuss in the Hunter Biden case. I'm actually finding it really interesting. I have to be honest. Like, up until now, not so much. But now that the prosecution is putting it on its case, it's getting very juicy. And let me show you what I have here for the listening audience. It is a 75 page exhibit to the viewing audience. Can see I've got all my purple tabs on there because I'm going to walk you through his text messages. This guy who's now claiming he wasn't addicted in October of 18 when he bought the gun. Ok. Wait until you hear his texts. You'll decide for yourselves whether he's got any defense here.

All right, so let me just get you up to speed. Overall, before we get into the specifics here, the jury is sitting and hearing the trial of President Joe Biden's son this week. He is accused of having lied on his gun application form and of having possessed the gun illegally because he was an active user or an addict at the time.

And thanks to the audiobook of his own memoir, remember, we talked about this when he released it, saying this is not going to be good for him. He's potentially facing charges and this won't be good. Well, it's not good. It's one of the linchpins of the prosecution's case against him. And we're going to bring you some of it today.

They are being introduced to the evidence.

And this is what I really want to get to. The so called laptop from hell, which we heard for so long was just russian disinformation, really. It was just introduced by the government, Joe Biden's government as verified legit and belonging to Hunter Biden.

This is unbelievable. You think about the role this thing played in the 2020 election, this laptop and the role that this administration and their media enablers and these former intel officials all played to make sure that we dismissed that thing. And now the government is standing up in court, representing to a jury through testimony and argument that it is Hunter Biden's, that they've known it for a long, long time. And not just the FBI or the Ir's whistleblowers. We already heard this story from them. This is the actual FBI on the stand under oath saying, yeah, we knew. We knew all along. It's, it's extraordinary.

We're going to get into all of this today with Viva Fry. He's a former litigator and rumble creator. And Phil Holloway, legal analyst and host of Inside the law on YouTube.

This month, we celebrate Father's Day. And I want to talk about dads. Dads can bring values to the home. They can help you stand up for your beliefs. This Father's Day, I want to talk about one way to honor the legacy of dads with an AMAC membership. AMAC, the association of Mature American Citizens, champions the values of faith, family and freedom. You can find out more at AMac.

By joining AMAC, you support an organization that fights for principles you care about. And this month only, you get a two year membership for just $16. That's two years for the price of one. Join thousands of other proud to be AMAC members. Visit Amac. Dot us, Megan. And let's celebrate Father's Day by standing up for what dads believed in. Happy Father's Day, Viva and Phil. So happy you guys are here. You guys are the perfect panel to go over what's happening. Let's kick it off with that. Kamala Harris sat on with Jimmy Kimmel last night. Watch this. A jury of twelve people, peers over the course of six weeks deliberated on the evidence and facts and unanimously determined guilt. The reality is cheaters don't like getting caught.

Wow.

It goes on. We'll play a longer soundbite later. That's the reality of the Trump trial. According to our sitting vice president, he's a cheater.

He cheated to win the 2016 election.

And the reason he's upset now is because he got caught.

Unbelievable. Viva.

Viva Frei
They said it wasn't a political persecution. And then they hold a press conference and bring Robert De Niro to endorse President Biden or Joe Biden outside the courthouse. I would have asked Kamala Harris if she could even identify what the predicate crimes were that bumped this otherwise misdemeanor prescribed charge into a 34 count felony. And now they're going around doing the rounds on Jimmy Kimmel. This is nothing shy of the most insidious propaganda ever. Jimmy Kimmel, the man who wanted to let wheezy die because he wasn't getting the jab, is now hosting Kamala Harris, who is politicizing this political persecution. And they've got their talking points. It was only about the talking point. Alex Soros, I don't know if you saw this, took to twitter to say the strategy out loud. Keep repeating convicted felon, because that's all they wanted. This will get overturned on appeal if there's any justice system left in America. But for the time being, they're going to run with their convicted felon for the election interference that this always was.

Megyn Kelly
From the get go, Phil, for this campaign, for this. I mean, for this woman who came to office in part thanks to this b's denial of what was on the Hunter Biden laptop. Right, as soon as that thing broke, showing evidence of Joe Biden's corruption, I mean, through his son for years, and the administration worked with the media and with these intel officials to suppress that thing immediately costing President Trump real and actual votes. We know that from the polls that were done after the fact to get up there and lament how people who cheat to win get upset when they get caught. Is rich.

Phil Holloway
Well, she's obviously speaking to the low information voter, especially when you've got these canned talking points, Megan, where they're talking about always a convicted felony and a jury of his peers, lawyers and all this stuff. Listen, if juries always got it right, we wouldn't need appeals courts, now, would we? And by the same token, juries are only as good as the information that they get fed. And who's in charge of feeding them information? You got the likes of Alvin Bragg, who can't even articulate what the crime is that he's charging. And you've got Judge Mershon, who has shown at every turn how he only is interested in one thing, and that is getting Trump as well. So Mershon, Bragg, the Manhattan jury, they're all on the same team, which is get Trump. Well, now that they've had a jury verdict. And by the way, it's not a jury of Donald Trump's peers, not under any stretch of the imagination. But now that they've got that they got their talking points. And what you see from the vice president to other politicians in Washington and those in the media, convicted felon, convicted felon, convicted felon. And you're gonna hear that for the duration of the campaign. And once there's a sentencing, we might hear incarcerated or probationer or things like that, or house arrest or whatever the judge comes up with, those are the things that they're going to be drumbing all the way to November. What happens if Hunter Biden, though? What happens if he gets convicted? Are they going to stand by there?

Well, he got convicted by a jury of his peers. No, they're not. They're going to call it something else. They're going to minimize it. It's pick and choose politics. And they're talking to the low information voter.

Megyn Kelly
You're absolutely right. The, the amazing moment, because I know you guys. I know you in particular. Viva covered the whole laptop from hell suppression quite extensively. And to see now what happened in the court yesterday, this federal witness, her name is FBI Special Agent Erica Jensen. She was used by the prosecution. All right, this is the government special counsel Weiss getting up there to verify that that laptop is indeed Hunter Biden's. And they went through all the facts. All right. The federal prosecutor, Derek Hines questioned Erica Jensen, FBI special agent, on the laptop and exactly how federal investigators verified its data. And let me just give you a couple of key facts, by the way. Follow national Reviews James lynch. For good coverage of the hunter trial. I'm going here for off of his report and my own reporting on the side.

Okay.

Jensen detailed how law enforcement obtained the laptop's hard drive in the fall of 2019 after retrieving, receiving a tip from a computer store. All right, so fall of 2019 is when the FBI obtained the laptop. They used forensic tools to extract data from the laptop after, after obtaining a search warrant. December 13, 2019. December 13. So by that date, they knew. They knew that it was hunters, and they went through exactly how they figured it out, that they cross referenced Hunter Biden's iCloud storage accounts with the computer's serial number. This is all testified to by the FBI agent. Okay, again, by December of 2019, when did the New York Post report come out about the Hunter Biden laptop and its explosive contents?

A year later, October 19, 2020.

At that time, the FBI not only had the laptop, they had verified beyond measure that it was Hunter Biden's, to the point where they could testify to it in a court of law.

And yet we had the 51 former intelligence agencies come out on that same date, October 19, 2020, to say, this is the headline in Politico. Hunter Biden's story is russian disinfo, according to these people. And it goes on and on and on.

They, all these people who signed this letter, Viva, these are former intel officials. These are former CIA, former FBI, former NSA. They. You're going to tell me not one called a person at the FBI to say, have you guys gotten wind of this? This. I know we know this, but it's extraordinary to see the FBI now saying it openly that it was his. They knew it was his and they knew it at the time the New York Post story hit. And yet John Brennan and all the others came out and said disinformation. And you've got the person they were trying to help, Kamala Harris and her boss, Joe Biden. But she's speaking for them, saying cheaters get upset when they get caught.

Viva Frei
Megan, it's even more insidious because those 51 intelligence officers, former and president, whatever, they didn't say it was russian disinformation. They said it bore the earmarks or bore the hallmarks of russian disinformation, which allows them to say, we never said anything factually incorrect. It was accurate, but it bore the earmarks of russian disinformation. You want to talk about actual election interference? This is actual election interference. It is intelligence. Lying to the public during an election cycle, pressuring social media to suppress the story that they know is true while cloaking the lie in something that is semantically ambiguous. It's actual election interference. The ultimate irony in all of this. I have this idea, like a sitcom, that it's about an abused son and daughter of a former president, of a vice president, to be president, who hate their dad so much because of the childhood abuse that they endured that they try to sabotage his presidency or, you know, climb into the presidency at every turn that he can do. So they leave the laptop with the most incriminating stuff ever, but intelligence foils the planet. The daughter leaves her diary somewhere, but intelligence comes in and says it's fake, it was stolen. And these kids were trying to sabotage their father because they hate him. Can't get away with it because of the corruption of the system. This is.

It's third world, eastern european. Everybody knew that it was accurate while they were lying about it in order to impact the outcome of an election. And I had Garrett Ziegler on, the guy who wrote the Marco Polo manual breaking down this computer. It contains stuff which if it were anybody else, they'd be in jail already for a long time. Because although there's arguably, but not arguably, not minor stuff on that computer, there is sufficient evidence to support, at the very least, charges or potential charges for cross state sex trafficking. But it's the president's son. This would have impacted the election. They lied about it. They suppressed it. They coerced social media companies to suppress it. They won. And now they accuse Trump of interfering with elections or cheating and getting caught. They are.

Go for it. Sorry.

Megyn Kelly
That guy, Garrett Ziegler, I haven't listened to that show, viva, but I will.

He was, he's been in court following this case very closely with Hunter Biden. And Hunter Biden's current wife called him a Nazi yesterday. Like, what are you doing here just to pick up on something you just said? Because you're right. Those 50, 51 intelligence agencies, the headline said Hunter Biden's story is Russian Disinfo. That was from Politico and Natasha Bertrand, who is among the worst, if not the worst, and just reprinting propaganda being handed to her to hurt Trump and help Biden.

Glenn Greenwald goes off on her all the time, but she's the one that's, this is her story. But if you read the body of their letter, they're dancing all around it. But here. But just take a listen, because I just want to go back to this. You know, I just had this debate with Bill Maher, right? Like, what was their election interference? And are the Democrats election deniers and all that stuff? But here in this, in this political article, this is 1019 2020. We are two weeks away from the presidential election. Here's what they say, quoting here. They talk about what's in the letter has, quote, that they concluded has all the classic earmarks of a russian, of a russian information operation, that their experience in intel has made them deeply suspicious that the russian government played a significant role here.

If we are right, they added, this is Russia trying to influence how Americans vote in this election. And we believe strongly that the Americans need to be aware of this. Listen to this paragraph. Nick Shapiro, a former top aide under CIA director John Brennan, provided Politico with a letter on Monday. He noted that the intelligence community leaders who have signed this letter, quoting here, worked for the past four presidents, including Trump. The real power here, however, is in the number of former working level IC officers, intelligence community officers, who want the american people to know that once again, the Russians are interfering.

So it's fine. The letter did say, I mean, the clear intent and import of the letter was to tell everybody the hunter Biden laptop is fake.

And now we've had person after person come out to say no. I mean, media organizations had to eventually admit, okay, it's been verified. But they knew it was verified. The FBI and the intel community knew they knew at the time they dropped this letter that it wasn't fake, that it had been verified by the FBI, as this agent testified to today on the stand.

Phil. And just, just to take you back at the complete propaganda we were being fed before the presidential election in 2020. The piece goes on. The New York Times raised questions on Sunday about the rigor of the New York Post's reporting process, revealing that several of its reporters had refused to put their name on the Biden stories because they were concerned about the authenticity of the materials. The Post stood by its reporting, saying it was vetted before publication. Right. This is Politico saying all of us respectable journalists, including the New York Times, recognize a disinformation operation when we see it. Unlike the dumbasses at the New York Post, all the shit went down weeks before the election and now they're all on the stand like, of course it was real.

Phil Holloway
Well, you know, the biggest crime that I can see is I don't have a problem really so much, because we expect campaigns to spend things and. But it did rise in the media to the level of outright propaganda that was designed to help one of the candidates and hurt the other one. But the real crime was using Facebook and Twitter at the time and social media to censor the story. You couldn't even link to it if you tried to because that's where so many people in this day and age get their information. They don't watch regular tv anymore. It's going to be on YouTube, it's going to be on x, it's going to be on Facebook, Snapchat, whatever. But you just could not access the information. You could not share the information because these, there was this, I guess, this cohesive effort, if you will, let's call it a cabal, that entered into some type of a grand conspiracy, I'll even use that word to basically make sure that all the information that anybody got was pure propaganda. Now, that is like soviet style stuff right there. I don't begrudge a campaign for wanting to spin it.

Megyn Kelly
You're right. Soviet style. Exactly. So watch this. Just a quick flashback. We're going to move forward, but we've got to spend a minute on this. It's just incredible. What a day to have them on the stand. Just saying. Yeah. Yep. Knew it all along. Here is the presidential debate with Kristen Welker of NBC showing zero interest in the laptop from hell. Watch.

Donald Trump
So don't give me the stuff about how you're this innocent baby Joe. They're calling you a corrupt politician nobody's President Trump.

Megyn Kelly
I want to stay on the issue of race. We're talking about the issue.

Viva Frei
50 former national intelligence folks who said.

Megyn Kelly
That what this he's accusing me of.

Viva Frei
Is a russian plan.

They have said that this is, has all the characters, four, five former heads of the CIA, both parties, say what he's saying is a bunch of garbage.

Nobody believes it except his and his good friend Rudy Gianni.

Donald Trump
You mean the laptop is now another Russia, Russia, Russia hoax? That's exactly what this is where he's going. The laptop is Russia.

Megyn Kelly
I want to stay on the issue of race.

Donald Trump
You have to be kidding. Here we go again with Russia.

Megyn Kelly
Unbelievable.

And let's point out, viva, at the time of that debate, Joe Biden had to have known the laptop was real as well, not only because of his connections to his son, but because of his connections, too, as the, you know, former vice president to the intel community and all those people who wrote the letter. Go ahead.

Viva Frei
If he didn't know, it's because they deliberately withheld. It's impossible that he didn't know. It's implausible. It's laughably stupid. Every single one of those 51 intelligence officers should be fired and they should be charged, because if they can find a 34 felony charge for Trump because he misclassified some clerical entry into his books, they can find one where there's actual lying to the american people and election interference and appreciate how it works. It's like Operation Mockingbird 2.0, disinformation, laundering. The headlines are an oversimplified version of the lie in the letter. And so technically, they never lied in the letter because it's always like, oh, it's bears the earmarks of campaigns. We know that the headline comes out and says, Russian Disinfo. The president or Biden himself comes up and says it. It's outright election interference. They are the criminals they accuse Trump of, and now the world is seeing it lay bare. But it's too late to do anything. And people are sort of fatigued. They just want to move on and go on with another election that's going to get stolen.

Megyn Kelly
No, I refuse to let them move on. We have to spend like, it's like. That's what, as I was reading, preparing for today, I'm like, no, we are spending time on this. What is now an old story, this laptop, because it's on the stand right now. This is it. The big admission that it was all real and that everything around it was a lie, though they're not highlighting part two. Remember the Leslie Stahl interview with Trump. Phil, where Trump.

He taped it himself and released his own, you know, full video of their exchange. But 60 minutes that, you know, the vaunted 60 minutes at the time before the election, saying, as follows, it's this.

Donald Trump
I think it's one of the biggest scandals I've ever seen, and you don't cover it.

You want to talk about.

Megyn Kelly
Well, because it can't be verified.

Donald Trump
You want to talk about insignificant things. I'm telling you, of course it can be verified. Excuse me. They found the laptop. Leslie. Leslie, verified what can't be verified?

Megyn Kelly
The laptop.

Donald Trump
Why do you say that? Even the family hasn't. The family on the laptop.

He's gone into hiding for five days. He's gone into hiding. He's preparing for your debate. Oh, it's taken him five days to prepare? I doubt it. I doubt it.

Viva Frei
Okay.

Megyn Kelly
And then when he tried to raise it at the debate, you saw what Kristen Welker did. It's just this. This is why people on the right are so angry and why the left just doesn't get it when they. When they miss, you know, rigged election as, oh, you're just a conspiracy theorist. No, this happened. This is verifiable. The laptop is, and so is this story.

Phil Holloway
The conspiracy is not a theory, if it's true. And the mastermind behind it, let's not forget, was Anthony Blinken, who's now our secretary of state. He was the political operative that was inside the Biden campaign that was sort of organized this whole thing and got all the signatures on that letter and everything. And now the man is the secretary of state of the United States. He's the person who is supposedly on the world stage, you know, trying to deal with the wars that are going on, both in the Ukraine and, of course, over in Israel. And this, you know, this is his pedigree. He is the actual architect of this, um, misinformation conspiracy campaign, uh, to cause the media to further regurgitate pure propaganda that they knew was lies. Right now in that courtroom, as you pointed out, this laptop had to be authenticated by federal agents. Every piece of evidence that goes into a courtroom has to be authentic, and you've got to be able to prove that it's authentic. And you do that with certain types of witnesses who can verify that it is what it. What it purports to be. In this case, Hunter Biden's laptop. And the information on there was, in fact, his. And this was just a couple of three short years ago, but the american public just doesn't seem to want to even think about it. They want to move on. And it's good that we're here talking about it because we're going to see other things. The election is still five months away. There's lots that can happen. And when we look at all of this in the context of what's going on with the Trump conviction, we need to learn to keep everything in context and remember that it's, the other side is not above using pure propaganda to mislead the american public and also to censor the media and to censor social media.

They will stop at nothing.

They will play as dirty as they need to in the lead up to an election. That's the message.

Megyn Kelly
And this cloak themselves in high brow sanctimony about the disgusting people on the other side. We would never interfere with an election. Not to mention we're not, we haven't even touched on what Hillary Clinton did back in four years earlier in that same 16 election that Trump is alleged to have interfered with by paying off Stormy Daniels and then not telling the world about it. But, I mean, we could spend all day talking about how Hillary Clinton interfered in that whole thing. All right, let's move on to what's actually happening in the Hunter case, because that is equally interesting.

He's a liar, too. He's, he's just as bad a liar as his father.

He got up there. I have to say, the prosecution did a good job of saying to the jury right off the front in its opening statement, we wouldn't be here if he were just a drug user, abuser, addict. That's not what we do. We're here because he then went and got a gun and he lied in his application on the forum, and he wasn't allowed to have a gun as an addict. Those are the laws of America. And normally, the left would be jumping up and down, agreeing with all of that. Right. They want tighter gun controls and more enforcement of the gun laws that make it harder to get a gun. But now they're just kind of tsking about this prosecution like, oh, he's just an addict. So I think the prosecution did a good job in getting that out there right from the front. This is not about somebody suffering from addiction. And by the way, they, almost all these jurors has somebody in the family affected by addiction. I mean, almost everybody in America does. So that's how it's going to be. Uh, so that was a smart way to sort of get that out of the way. But here's the thing hunter's defense is going to be that he was not a crack addict at the very moment he filled out the forms saying he was not an active user of drugs or an addict, that he was not an addict at the very moment of the purchase, and therefore the government has no case.

Now, again, this. This goes back to October 23, 2018. All right. 2018.

That's when.

Sorry, let me. Let me revise that. October the 12th, 2018, is when he bought the gun. October 13.

One day after he bought the gun, he sent texts to his love interest, Hallie Biden. That's beau Biden's widow, who he was shtupping. I'm sorry. It's very weird about seeing a drug dealer the day after he texted his lover about seeing a drug dealer. And then Halle Biden's going to take the stand and talk about the events of October 23, which is the day she found his firearm and threw it into a garbage can at a nearby mall. So we've got ten days, October 13, 2018, through October 23, 2018, for the prosecution to prove he was indeed a crack addict and an active user. Viva, from what you've read so far, how do you like their chances, the prosecutions?

Viva Frei
There's. Well, before I forget this thought, I want to say something.

The whole russian disinformation and that foreign interests might use certain information to corrupt or coerce or extort political leaders. You know, the fact that the FBI and intelligence had this laptop for upwards of a year beforehand, it's not only foreign interests that can use compromising information to blackmail politicians. Intelligence can do it as well. And you have to ask yourself why it wasn't intelligence had this and what they were doing with it for a year, if not, arguably, potentially extorting or planning to extort or coerce something, some action out of a politician, just to throw that out there so people can actually think about that. It's not just foreign interested blackmail. As relates to the merits of this case, there are going to be some constitutional questions here. Second Amendment shall not be infringed. If you're forced to answer certain questions on a form, is that an infringement of the Second Amendment? Now, I don't think that's the argument that the lefties are going to want to take with this.

The ambiguity of the phrasing of the question. Are you? I forget exactly how they phrased it, but I can understand the semantic argument. Well, I don't consider myself an addict, so why would I answer yes to that?

And Second Amendment argument, if anybody needs Second Amendment protection, well, it's definitely a crack addict, a drug addict who's buying drugs from criminals. He needs to have this protection. So there's going to be constitutional arguments to it. The bottom line is just the outright agreement.

Megyn Kelly
Wait, wait. Let me put it up on the board because we have the language. The word is important in a full screen for the audience and for you. Hold on. Let's put it up there.

Okay, that's it. But no one can read that.

Viva Frei
I'm getting old. My eyes are bad. I can't see that, but read it out loud, Kelly.

Megyn Kelly
I know I had it right in front of me. Kelly, can you send it to me? I had it in front of me, but I can't find it in this huge packet. Kelly McGuire is going to send it to me. I'm going to read out loud. Go ahead, viva.

Phil Holloway
Yeah.

Viva Frei
So there's going to be some ambiguity in the wording I doubt they're going to raise. The second amendment shall not be infringed. This is an unconstitutional requirement. The bottom line, he's dead to rights in terms of the, the actus reus and the mens rea of this crime. Oh, he did.

Megyn Kelly
I found the act. Sorry. I'm such a pain in the ass. Forgive my interruptions. I just. It's a good point to read the actual language. And I, they. My team had already given it to me and I didn't see it. Okay.

It reads, are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance? So very clearly, you know, crack and cocaine would qualify. So unlawful user of. Yeah, or addicted to. Go ahead, sir.

Viva Frei
There's that Mitch Hedberg joke where he says, you know, like, I used to do drugs. I mean, I still do, but I used to, too. Like, there's a semantical argument that you can understand someone's going to make there. I don't consider myself an addict. I'm not a user, but I have used. I mean, I can understand the argument, but I'll let Phil take this way because he's an actual lawyer in America, might have a better opinion.

Phil Holloway
And I've actually filled out a lot of those forms, actually, and they're not hard to understand. I mean, it's pretty clear language. I mean, you can play the Bill Clinton. What is the definition of is? Is you can play a little word. Semantics games, but it's obvious that the form, it's not asking you, are you actively smoking crack cocaine while you're buying this gun? That's not what it's asking, okay? It's asking you, you know, are you an active user? Unlawful? And there's really no. There might be a lawful reuse for some drugs, but there's no lawful use for crack cocaine.

And so the answer to that question has to be yes. And let's not forget they found cocaine residue, I think, in the holster where the gun was stored. So it's. It's obvious that the.

That he's guilty. I mean, he's an active user of crack cocaine. When he's buying that gun, the semantics might be a better defense for them in terms of what is the definition of an addict? I mean, I'm in treatment. I got out of treatment. Am I cured? Am I not cured? I don't know. But he's clearly an active user of drugs at the time he's purchasing that gun. And having filled out those forms, I can tell you they're not hard to understand. A reasonable person looks at it and understands exactly what the question is asking. And we all know that if you don't tell the truth on those things and you lie, you're subject to being arrested and charged and going to jail. And, you know, I say what you want about the Second Amendment. There's nobody that's a bigger second Amendment advocate than I am. And maybe we can have a discussion one day about whether those forums should ask those things. But the fact of the matter is, that is the law. That is the law that is in effect today. That's the law of the United States. And if he violates that law, we've been hearing all summer long that nobody is above the law. Right. And so if nobody is above the law, then he has to be convicted. That's just the way it is. Now, whether he will be in that jurisdiction to another question.

Megyn Kelly
Well, and we'll talk about whether they're just doing jury nullification, but let's just stay on this specific evidence. So I did look up the rehab, you know, if he had just completed. So again, he bought the gun. October 12, 2018. Let's say he just got out of rehab. He spent all of September of 2018 in rehab. He emerges and somehow convinces himself, I mean, every addict I know, recovering addict, and active users, they say I'm an addict. Even when they're recovering, they say I'm an addict. They don't say. They say I'm actively using or I'm not.

But they don't say, like, I'm totally over my addiction. You're never over an addiction. It's that's the problem with addiction. It's always a battle anyway. It doesn't allow you to say, no, I'm not an addict because you just got rehab. But, okay, that's what he's going to go with because they haven't dead to rights. But I was thinking, when did the rehab happen? It did not happen in September. It happened in the summer. Okay. The summer of 2018. And the problem for Hunter Biden is they've got in these text messages that I held up before. Okay. They have so many texts between Hunter and his. Looks like many dealers begging for drugs all around through and immediately after the so called rehab. I mean, they have got him. I'm just going to show you a couple. Okay. Because it, like, let's take some time to go. So first of all, well, here's April of, for April 27, 2018. And then the next day, or, yeah, the next day. I don't know why Hunter Biden was texting pictures of his drugs to his drug dealer, but you can see and we'll try to get you closer pictures of these. But you can see, I mean, he's texting the pictures of the drugs he apparently wants right to his drug dealer.

Then we fast forward. All right, let's keep going. Oh, there's tons of, like, do you want it? You know, you can bring. He can only bring five. Would you take that? Yes, please. Here's what he looks like. You know, dude, I need it. I need what? I mean, it's very, very incriminating all through April, May, and so on.

Okay. He wants it. He needs it ASAP. He's desperate for the drugs. June, July. You want 10 grams? Yes.

Hold on. I'm going to get to the good stuff.

Okay. Now here we pick it up.

I got to put on my readers because this is written like the back of a prescription bottle. These things are so tiny.

Okay, here we go.

1013.

This is a day after he purchased the gun.

He's texting back and forth with Holly. Holly, Hallie Biden, his dead brother's widow. These two by now, are having an affair.

He seems to be pretty clear with her that he is buying drugs. He's trying to find her. She's sending nice, supportive messages to him, and he seems obsessed with something else.

Fast forwarding.

Okay, let's see.

Okay. 1013 2018. She's saying, why won't you answer my calls? Where are you? Are you with someone?

And he responds, yes.

And then it's blacked out. Who hangs at 711 on Green Hill in Lancaster. I'm now off Maryland Avenue behind Blue Rock Stadium, waiting for a dealer named blacked out. His brother, l is getting in the car now. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but, like, I don't wait around for dealers because I don't. I don't do drugs. It's like, not really a thing that non drug users. Users do, but let me keep going. 1013.

He has my money mad. I'm getting pissed. She says, I called you 500 times in the past 24 hours. This is on 1014 now. And you didn't answer.

He responds, 1014.

I was sleeping on a car, smoking crack on fourth and Rodney.

Okay, it's not ambiguous.

Hello, Megan, can you.

Viva Frei
This is the to be president's son. Can you imagine the drug dealer that has this blackmail material on a prominent politician? I mean, this is. It's nuts. You wouldn't believe it if it were written in a sitcom.

Megyn Kelly
No, it's not ambiguous either. Wait, let me keep going because this is like something out of a movie. 1015. She writes, I just want to help you get sober. Nothing I do or you do is working. I'm sorry. I'm afraid you're going to die and I can't live without you. What's one thing you've done to help me get sober? So an admission there too, right? No, no one's. Sounds like he hasn't gotten sober.

Okay, keep keeping forward now. 1023.

1023. He found out she took the gun and got rid of it. And he texts her. Okay. Did you take that from me? Sorry, it's very hard to read. Did you take that from me? Are you insane? Tell me now.

This is no game and you are being totally irresponsible and unhinged. Tell me now. Still 1023. You really need to help me think right now. This is very, very serious. She writes back. Call me. She writes, I can't believe this. You can blame me all you want. I know it was stupid, but your part is dangerous and negligent. And because of this and my stupidity for being worried about you, I'm dealing with insanity. And possibly I'm the one who's going to get in trouble. Check yourself into a local rehab hunter. This has all got to stop. Don't run away again. Please don't leave. She goes on to say, please come and you talk to me now. I'll take full blame. I don't want to live like this anymore. This is too much for me to handle.

He writes back, the fucking FBI. It's hard to believe anyone is that stupid?

So what's my fault here, Hallie? That you speak. That you speak of owning a gun that's in a locked car hidden on another property. You say I invade your privacy. What more can I do than come back to you to try again? And you do this. Who in their right mind would trust you? That you would help them? Me to get sober? Do you want me dead? She responds, I'm sorry. I want you safe. Still 1020 318. That was not safe. And it was open. It was unlocked and windows down. And the kids search your car.

You've lost your mind, Hunter. I'm sorry. I handled it poorly today. But you are in huge denial about yourself and about that reality that I just want you to be safe. You run away like a child. You blame me for your shit. It's to be expected that you go. You prove repeatedly that you can't stay and really do work on yourself. It's easier for you to avoid looking within and cowardly. To constantly point the blame on me. He writes back, eleven, 320, 18.

Jumping forward to another conversation, he writes, I'm a liar and a thief and a blamer and a user. And I'm delusional and an addict.

Unlike beyond and above all other addicts that you know. And I've ruined every relationship I've ever cherished. And then here's. I'm just finishing up here. She writes back, let's do this. Come home. Talk with the kids. Let's tell your family and your kids the plan. Let's stick to it. Everyone adores you and wants you to feel like you were safe and working on sobriety. We can do this. Then I'll do therapy with you. While you are there, we can talk about everything you want once you are there.

You're blaming me again, but for what? She says in a text on eleven eight, do you know how and what your addiction has done to us all? When you humbly realize how much damage you've caused, then I'll know you are ready to get sober. Blaming me, that's an excuse to avoid sobriety. If you want us, our love, our support, my help, then shut up and come home and we can get you there. He writes back, no blame regarding sobriety. She writes, you are the one not sober and brutally affecting us all. He responds, eleven eight, I'm a drunk. An addict.

Then he says to her, don't you want your crack back? He got her hooked on it, too, according to reports. She writes back, I can't take it anymore. You want me to relapse.

And then she said, I don't want you running around calling me a loser, crackhead. And he responds by saying, I never said you were a loser, but crackhead? Yeah, it's sad.

Viva Frei
It's sad. It's terrible.

Phil Holloway
He's confessed all over himself in those text messages. Lots there. I mean, he's admitted to everything he's being accused of, but on top of that, I mean, he's the poster child, Megan, for why these federal forums ask these questions in the first place. He's like the guy that they don't want guns to get in the hands of, as particularly when he has people who are just gonna, I guess, gonna take the gun and just throw it in a trash can somewhere. I mean, somebody needs to educate them on some proper gun safety. But. But seriously, though, this is the kind of person, you know, you hear the left always talk about, we gotta have common sense laws to keep the guns out of people's hands that don't need them. Well, here's a common sense law like this one that's on the books, that's designed to keep guns out of the hands of people like Hunter Biden. That's it right there. Okay, so the way to do that is when they lie on those forms, you prosecute them. That is common sense gun control. Prosecute people for violating the laws as it pertains to how they get their hands on firearms. Because when they're in the hands of people like that, God knows what can happen with those guns. Obviously, he's not in a good place, mentally. Obviously, people around him are affected by this. These are the last people on the planet that need to have access to loaded firearms. We can just leave them laying around for God knows who to define and perhaps hurt themselves or somebody else.

Megyn Kelly
Kavita, how often do you think the feds get a case like this, where they're looking at the gun charges and the language we discussed earlier on what the forum says, I'm an unlawful user of, or addicted to, any controlled substance, narcotic, drug. And the defendant says, it wasn't true. It wasn't true at the time. And then you find his texts from exactly the time saying, I am a user and an addict. It's in writing, over and over and over.

Viva Frei
But, Megan, how did it take so long for this to come to prosecution? And would it have ever come to prosecution had it not been for the New York Post article?

It's a gross and disgustingly sad story to listen to. Like, it's not funny. I don't care that it's Hunter Biden. What was, what's amazing about this story was not an individual's battle with addiction. It was a corrupt regime's ability to censor that addiction and to censor all of the material that could be used for blackmail or to corrupt and extort a president.

The dark side of this story, above and beyond the addiction, is how intelligence covered up for this, how the FBI did nothing with it, and how it's only after it became publicly known that they have to have some, I don't know, slap on the wrist, show trial. If he even gets convicted, he's as dead to rights as humanly possible, given the law, period. That being said, so was Michael Sussman, the Clinton and DNC's lawyer when he stood trial in DC and got acquitted because they do not care. Eugene Carroll, possessing an unlawful firearm. She gets a pass. Hunter Biden will see. But Dexter Taylor, a law abiding New York citizen who assembles his own firearms in his apartment, is now locked away for ten years. So the issue here, it's not the underlying crime. It's the double standard, corruption of the regime and the censorship that impacted the outcome of an election. And. But for the New York Post article, this would have never seen the light of day. And lord knows who has, who has bought off any sort of presidential act, presidential pardon, not pardon, but presidential act of kindness or whatever, because of the incriminating information that the intelligence has on Hunter Biden and Joe Biden's family and foreign governments.

Megyn Kelly
So I think we've adequately shown the very, very solid, one might argue, airtight case the feds have against Hunter Biden on these charges. But just to add a little cherry on top of the Sunday, Phil, they are introducing tape found on the laptop of Hunter's dad, Joe Biden, calling him and expressing his concern. It's a loving message from a dad to a son about his addiction in October of 2018. That's what's relevant here. Take a listen.

Joe Biden
I love you. Love you more than the whole world, pal.

Can I get some help? I don't know what to do. I know you don't either. But I'm here no matter what you need.

No matter what you need. I love you.

Hey, it's dad again. I'm down at Newport News, Virginia. It's about 04:00 just. Just call and check. Just text me or something. Let me know you're okay. Okay? I love you.

Megyn Kelly
Credit to the Daily Mail, which got that exclusively. We don't actually know whether it's been introduced yet, but it's almost certainly going to be. Those calls were from October 15 and 18th, 2018, respectively.

Phil Holloway
So now you've got, you got his father, you've got his, I guess, ex sister in law, current lover.

You know, I forget all the dynamics here. I can't keep up with it.

Megyn Kelly
Just to add to it, Phil. So, yes, both of them, the ex lover, whatever, she's going to take the stan. Halley. But right now, they just finished up with Hunter Biden's ex wife, who just took the stand and said he was actively using, no question, in October of 2018. Go ahead.

Phil Holloway
So all these people, all of them democrats, they all know that Hunter Biden is an active user of drugs, and they all know that he possessed this gun. Okay? So look, I'm all for anybody who's charged with a crime, you have an absolute right to have a jury trial then. You know that. And I support that 100%. But you've got to ask yourself, isn't it a little bit hypocritical if all these Democrats that are surrounding this man, who is clearly and obviously in violation of the federal gun laws, why don't they practice what they preach and say, okay, own it, even if you don't have a plea deal, plea guilty, say, you know what, judge? I was wrong. I should not have possessed that firearm. That's why the rules are in place. I broke the law, and I'm at your mercy. And I bet the judge would show him a lot of mercy if he would just do that. And I think these other people around him would have a lot more credibility about things when they're preaching to the rest of us about enforcing, you know, common sense gun laws or creating new common sense gun laws when they themselves don't even practice what they preach.

Megyn Kelly
That's such a good point, Viva.

You'd, any lawyer would say, Hunter, my friend, you got a cop, a plea in this circumstance. And you know what?

They tried to, as you know, they tried with this sweetheart deal that this prosecutor, this guy David Weiss, offered them to cut the deal of the century. And it was only for this judge, thanks to this judge, Judge Norieka, who caught just how sweetheart it was that it got rid of the gun charges and the tax charges and anything related to Burisma, everything under the sun that she said, whoa, whoa. That's the only reason, because of her, that they're having to go to a trial. But even at this point, you'd think the lawyer would look at him and say, all right, now we've lost out on dismissing these as misdemeanors.

But you're going to have to go in there and throw yourself in the mercy of the court because you're toast, man. That's not what they're doing. They're going, I think, for jury nullification.

Phil Holloway
Jury null. That, that's why, that's why his mother's in the courtroom. And that's why, you know, there's, there's bound to be a lot of people on that jury, Megan, who are big fans of, um, the first lady. Right. They're right there from Delaware. Okay.

Megyn Kelly
Especially, especially in Delaware.

Phil Holloway
Yeah. And so she's in there every day. And you got to know she's making eye contact with the jurors. They see, they see her over there. And as much as they may be listening to what the prosecutors are saying and what the prosecutors are putting on the witness stand, they're also watching very carefully the interactions between Jill Biden and her son Joe, and, excuse me, Hunter. And they, that's another sort of a play that's going on behind the scenes. They're, they're watching multiple presentations, one official presentation and one unofficial presentation. That's why Jill is there. She's there to support her son, of course. But I promise you, the lawyers want her there. They want the jurors looking at her. They want the jurors to see her talking with Hunter and interacting with Hunter and acting like a, you know, the loving mother. That's what they want to show the jury because that is the only way they can ask the jury for nullification. They can't outright say it. It's against the law. The judge won't let them. So they have to say it in another way. And they're doing it through Jill and all the other people connected with the.

Megyn Kelly
First family, sister Ashley Biden, who's there. We are going to get one other point on this. They're playing Hunter Biden's tape, the audio version of his book, I should say. We're going to show you what they played right after this. Don't go away. Viva and Phil, stay with me. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today. You can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love great people like Doctor Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

Kamala Harris
Go to siriusxm.com mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com mkshow and get three months free.

Phil Holloway
Offer details apply.

Megyn Kelly
Being in debt is like sinking in quicksand. You're trapped. You feel helpless. And the harder you struggle, the deeper in debt you can get. If you are trapped in debt, let me throw you a lifeline. Done with debt done with debt has created a new strategy with one goal in mind, to get you out of debt quickly and permanently. Done with debt stands between you and your bill collectors. Then they negotiate a plan to end your debt permanently, without bankruptcy and without loans. They can get you out of debt quickly and put more cash in your pocket monthly. But you need to contact done with debt right away. Because some debt solutions expire, it's easy to get started. Just go to donewithdebt.com and get a free consultation. You have nothing to lose. Talk with one of their experts about a strategy that will end your debt faster and easier than you thought possible. Visit donewithdeb.com that's donewithdebt.com dot so apparently the prosecution played a fair amount of excerpts from the audiobook of Hunter Biden's memoir, and the reports were pretty uniform about how it was very eerie to see him sitting there and hear his voice booming overhead in this courtroom.

That's at least how it started. And then I guess it got a little rote because they read a lot, they played a lot. Here's a bit we'll start with the first sot, one of what the jury heard.

Kamala Harris
I went through and stepped around people curled up on thin pieces of cardboard. Beyond them, I noticed a tilting, unlit tent. I pulled back a flap. It was pitch black. All I saw was the gun pointed at my face.

I stood there unfazed. I assumed I was in the right place.

If the guy squatting there had a gun, he had something worth protecting.

Turned out I was right.

I told him I'd been there before with Joe or whatever name I gave him for the homeless guy who'd brought me there previously. His reply? Who the fuck you talking about?

So I just asked if he had any hard oh, he said. He lowered the gun, rummaged around, and pulled out a bag.

He never even got up, I saw somebody else lying to his right, sound asleep, snoring softly.

I only bought a little because he only had a little.

But it was enough to hold me over until the rest of that miserable, blood sucking world I now belong to was up and back to work.

I walked straight to my car and slipped inside.

I was shaking and ashamed. Then I lit up 30 seconds later. I was numbed and flying and no longer ashamed at all. Until the next time.

For months and months afterward, for most of the next year, there was always a next time.

Megyn Kelly
Okay? They all go like that. That's how they all sound. And all I can think when I hear this, you guys, is that's the same guy in those text messages and in that description of his life at the time who are sitting vice president took with him over to China.

Had no problem with him sitting on the board of Burisma collecting 50 grand a month, understanding perfectly well, viva, just how compromised he was. He meaning Joe Biden, the then vice president, as a result of this infirmity in his son.

Viva Frei
Megan, it's, the thing is this. It's sad. And there's no but to that. It's sad. And if this were anyone else, it would be something that you would deal with within the framework of dealing with addiction and potential criminality. It's sad. And let's bookmark that. It's corruption of the highest order. It's compromising of public officials of the highest order. It is everything they've ever accused the Trump family of. Remember, they accused Eric Trump of being a cokehead. And what risks would that cause of? Blackmail and extortion. This is corruption of the highest order. And what drives me nuts is those two voice messages from Joe. It makes me feel bad for Joe. It makes me feel he sounds like a loving father in those messages.

Megyn Kelly
He does.

Viva Frei
And the problem is he sends those messages, he leaves those messages. He has that knowledge, and then he takes to the debate stage to lie to the american people. That it's russian disinformation. That's where it goes from pity to corruption that deserves to be punished. And you know, you talk about Jill Biden being in the courtroom, it could be for potential pity. It could also be for potential intimidation. There is the first lady staring at jurors saying, you better damn well do what we know, that you better damn well do what you know we want you to do. That is jury intimidation in as much as it might be trying to play the parent card. But the issue here is not the addiction. Its not all of the terrible decisions Hunter made, it's the fact that he has always been an overt liability and that if anybody is compromised, it's Joe Biden. And he has been for decades. And it might explain a little bit of some foreign policy decision in Ukraine, depending on which corrupt governments have dirty stories on Hunter, with them partying around, doing exactly what we now know that he did.

Megyn Kelly
Speaker one, I heard the testimony yesterday from that special agent from the FBI fell about the ATM withdrawals that Hunter was making in October of 2018.

Perfectly normal. Sure. I'm sure it was perfectly normal.

She testified. He was withdrawing hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars in cash right around the time he purchased the gun. On the day of the gun purchased, he withdrew $5,000 in cash, according to a receipt shown to the jury. Prosecutors say he paid gun, paid for the gun in cash, and they're going to have the gun dealer testify to that, too. From September to November 2018, he withdrew $151,000 in cash. I heard that.

And all I could think was, you know, how he got all that money in the bank?

Thanks to Burisma, thanks to the Chinese, thanks to all these other payments that were documented on the laptop from hell, which was suppressed. Speaker one.

Phil Holloway
And he's doing business, obviously, the, there's plenty of records of the gun sale, but he's clearly doing business with people or entities that don't like to take credit cards or checks. I mean, why do you need to take 151, $1,000 out of the bank in cash unless you're just going around blowing it on hookers and drugs and all sorts of, you're spending it in, let's just say, alternative markets where you purchase things on an alternative market. That's really the only reason you're going around. You're flashing money. You're flashing cash. That's really the only way to do it. And the reason that the FBI is testifying to this, the reason prosecutors are, are bringing all this out is to point out that he is an active user. It all goes to the issue of whether he's an active user at the time he's making this purchase. And is he an addict also for that? So that's how this all ties in.

It's, I think, a really brilliant move. I think prosecutors are doing a great job because this is the best evidence. I mean, what a person actually does. And you can extrapolate from that. It's a little bit circumstantial, but circumstantial evidence can be very powerful if it's used right and it's being used right, in this case. And to use his words, to hear him talk in his own words about substance abuse and using illegal drugs is absolutely, I think, brilliant from a trial strategy perspective, from the prosecutors. They've got him dead to rights. They're going to make their case. They're going to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, perhaps even beyond all doubt. The big question remains, and we've talked about it before, is will the jury give him a pass simply because who he is and because they feel sorry for him? But nevertheless, the prosecutors have done a great job so far.

Megyn Kelly
The viva. The cross examination of this FBI agent elicited what sounds like you can hear where the defense is going, right. And what he was pressing her on. Abby Lowell, a man who was pressing the agent on, was.

You're not sure whether he really was using drugs continuously from 15 to 19, are you? She answered. I didn't get the sense that it was the entire period.

And this is where they're going to go. Like maybe for this one week period in October, notwithstanding all those texts that I just read you, somehow he found Jesus and maybe just switched to alcohol, only they seem to be saying it was just alcohol. I don't know about you, I like to drink alcohol occasionally. I don't measure my consumption in grams. I don't say I need 10 grams of wine.

I don't. I just don't think any of that is going to fly. And this leads. I love your thoughts on that. And then I also want to ask you this.

So does all of this get us to the conclusion that he's likely to be convicted?

If he's not, it's probably jury nullification. But if he is convicted, is there any chance his father, who has the ability to pardon him, this being a federal case and crime, will do exactly that?

Viva Frei
I'll field the first half of the question first. I might be one of the rare neurotic people. I actually do measure my martinis and milliliters just so I can know exactly how much I'm drinking. So I got a little tablespoon cup, and I measure it to the milliliters. I mean, jokes aside, what they are hoping for is the jury to suspend disbelief because of political prejudice, period. Why didn't he cop a deal?

He learned the wrong lesson from Michael Sussman. He learned the wrong lesson from Kevin Kleinfeld. Is it Kleinfeld or Klein Smith, the FBI attorney? One is the lawyer out of Carlito's way. The other one is the FBI lawyer who falsified evidence and submitted it to a court who got a slap on the wrist for a punishment. So he's learned the wrong lessons in both respects. Sussmann, dead to rights, got acquitted or found not guilty. And Kevin Kleinsmith, I don't even know what his penalty was. I think he's now back as a member of the bar despite falsifying evidence that they submitted to a judge. So take his chances. What's he got to lose? And then at the very least, maybe get a pardon afterwards. Maybe Biden comes in and pardons Trump and everybody pardons everybody but his son in particular.

So, no, he's learned all of the wrong lessons. But what is most shocking about this and set it all aside again, set aside these particular guys gun charges. He has been a drug fiend for years, whether it's a decade, a half a decade, dad doesn't leave that message if it's a new issue for years, while he's been in political positions of power on corrupt ukrainian energy companies, while his dad has been pimping out his own son for his 10% for the big guy. And by the way, before I forget this as well, Garrett Ziegler, Marco Polo, the guy who did the book, hypothesized, how could he take out so much money in cash in a given month? Some people hypothesize, if Im not misattributing it, that he was giving a pin code so that hookers, drug dealers could go take out money, cash to pay for the drugs that he was getting, to pay for the sex that he was getting. So this has been a known problem in the making for years, if not closer to a decade. Everybody knew about it. And if there has ever been a president who has been compromised by the ills of their family, its Joe Biden. Thats the biggest scandal above and beyond these felony gun charges.

Megyn Kelly
But here's what's interesting about a possible conviction here. Like, does it somehow raise the stakes for Joe Biden to drop out to do the, I'm going to be the magnanimous one and I'm going to pardon Trump and my son. Trump is the price he would have to pay for the Hunter Biden pardon and toss the baton to somebody else? You know, I got a new diagnosis. It's caused me more concern about my health and the ability to serve another four years. Like to do it because as you point out in those voicemails, it certainly does sound like, and I understand there's an argument to the contrary about whether he cares about his son. He knew he's drug addled. He put him in these compromising positions and so on. But you can hear there is some caring in those voicemails. So if that's true, he really cares about Hunter Biden at some level, might he, Phil, do exactly that? Like if he gets convicted, does it raise the stakes that he actually might bail from this race so he can pardon the kid?

Phil Holloway
Well, I think one way or another, whether he bails from the race or not, Megan, I think there's probably a pardon or a commutation in it for Hunter. Let me explain why. And first off, he, there's nothing that Joe Biden or any president can do about the New York conviction for Donald Trump. But with respect to Hunter. So the way it's going to play out, we're going to be in trial for a few more weeks, of course. Then you're going to have jury deliberations and then a verdict. And then, as it usually works in federal court, they'll come back several weeks or a couple of months later for a sentencing hearing. And then they'll have a sentencing hearing. And let's say the judge says, okay, I'm going to sentence you to some jail. And then they have a delayed report. And that could be another month or two. So it could be several months out. But let's just say he gets convicted, he gets sent to jail. It could be after the election.

It realistically could be after the election, before he would have to report to custody. So then the scenario would be like this. Joe Biden's either going to be at the end of his term or else he'll be getting ready to start a second term. No matter what happens. Either way, he won't have to run again. And then he's free to do whatever he wants. He's free politically to commute a sentence and maybe pardon later. Or he could just go outright and pardon Hunter later this year or early next year, whenever the time.

Megyn Kelly
The problem with that is if he doesn't pardon Hunter preemptively, because you can do a preemptive pardon before the November election, he could lose. Well, let's say no, because you can do it post election and pre, the other guy getting sworn in. Yeah. So in that, I guess he'll know. So he would know that he had lost in that timeframe and he could, he could pardon Hunter then.

Phil Holloway
Yeah, I don't think Hunter's conviction or lack thereof, is going to really move the needle on the election for Joe Biden either way, because, no, the Trump conviction and the Biden and the hunter stuff has been, we've, this has been with us for years now. So it's all kind of baked into the cake. And I don't think whether he's convicted or not is going to change any voters. So I think that it's probably reasonable and safe for Joe Biden to simply wait and see what happens. Because if this jury does give him a pass and says, okay, go forth and sin no more, we're going to do jury nullification, then he doesn't have to worry about it. But even if he does get convicted, he can hold it and he can do it in late November, early December, whether he's at the end of his term or getting ready to start a new one.

Megyn Kelly
That's a good point. He has said publicly he's not going to pardon Hunter, but.

Phil Holloway
Yeah, but that doesn't mean anything.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, no, it doesn't mean anything. All right, so last but not least, we got to spend a minute on Fannie Willis. Speaking of paying in cash and corruption.

Got to talk about Fannie. So it's amazing because you point out accurately that a presidential pardon doesn't save you from state cases, cases. And on the Trump. Back to the Trump cases.

If Trump wins, he can pull the feds off of those two federal cases on him and make them go away before there's any trial. He can just put an end to them. But that doesn't take care of the New York case, which he's been convicted in, and it doesn't take care of the Georgia case. Now, I don't think that Trump is going to get jail time in the New York case. Others do. Others do think he might because this judge has been so rabidly partisan, it's tough to put it by him.

But that leaves us with Georgia.

And Phil and I were texting earlier today.

Georgia's kind of done. It's done for now.

Phil Holloway
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Phil Holloway
It's.

Megyn Kelly
Ashley Merchant stopped Georgia in its tracks. It remains stopped because the Georgia appellate court took up the issue of whether Fannie and Nathan both should have been mandatorily disqualified.

And nothing really is happening in the case while that appeal is pending. So tell us what the appellate panel that they drew to hear this case looks like, Phil, and how you like the chances of a reversal given these judges.

Phil Holloway
They're, they're all, they're, they're, they're conservative judges. I mean, George's, our judges are technically nonpartisan, but they are all conservative. They were appointed by republican governors, you know, one of them even by a current governor Kemp. But some, one of these guys comes from, really, actually, I think all of them, but some of them, more than others, come from very, very red parts of the state. So from you looking at it just from the political lens, I got to think Fannie Willis is probably not liking this panel. But I think the defense there that's raising these claims, I do think they like the panel.

They've got to get two of the three to reverse Judge McAfee. And if that happens, let's say Fannie is removed from the case, is not dismissed. There's nobody else reasonably going to be able to take up this case and run with it because they would have to go back and do all this work over again to remove the odor of mendacity, so to speak, and to clean up the mess that Fannie Willis has made. So if she is removed, I think that's effectively the end of this case. If she's not removed by the court of appeals, then the defense gets to ask the Georgia Supreme Court to, you know, to take another stab at getting her removed. So this case is, at best, it's going to be mired down in this appeal for months and months and months, and it's probably going to be dying on the vine the entire time. So I don't think that much is.

Megyn Kelly
Going to happen on that appellate court that they're going to next.

Phil Holloway
It's like 20, it's like 25, but there's only three in this panel. So there's the, it's just a panel of three. That's, that's the way it's divided now. They, they can ask for what's called a rehearing before the whole court, before there's something to the court of appeal, to the, the Supreme Court. But needless to say, I think that, to me, I think the appeal is looking very strong from the, from the defense side. I think that it's very likely they're going to rule that she's disqualified, if nothing else, for the out of court statements that she made where she's slimed to the defendants and their lawyers. That's just absolutely unethical. And that's enough, I think, to get her disqualified notwithstanding the affair. But I think Georgia, one way or another, is dying on the vinegar.

Megyn Kelly
I agree with you, Viva. You were shaking your head yes when I said some lawyers think this judge will give Trump jail time. Are you one of them?

Viva Frei
Speaker one? I think it's more likely than it was before. I mean, I keep making the joke that they found another Rubicon to cross, and they keep upping the levels of the insanity. They didn't go through a six week trial so the judge could issue a $5,000 fine against Trump. I mean, it's going to have to be more than 500. I don't know what the statutory limit of any fine merchant can imposes, but they're going to try to do something punitive but not sufficiently egregious that it gets overturned on appeal. I'm not convinced anymore. Put them on.

Megyn Kelly
How about suspended sentence?

Viva Frei
Well, maybe like, or, I don't know, one, something nominal, something symbolic, so they can say not only is he a convicted felon, but convicted felon, but he went to jail, or he had to go to jail for a day. I don't know. No, but there seems to be no limit to the insanity. And also just to go back to the idea of Biden hardening hunter or if he loses, I said this before, and it's only a question of how it's going to come to be. I don't think Biden's going to be on the ticket. And so my longer play here is thinking, is this what we call the deep state of the administrative state? Is this the powers that be lining it up so that Biden is either removed, has to be removed, or some other force intervenes? I don't think Biden's going to be on the ticket, period. Period. And so the only question, this is.

Megyn Kelly
Actually one of my favorite topics on earth. So what's the theory? Like, who do they, how do they get him out and who do they replace him with?

Viva Frei
Mental decline. Now that it's been widely reported, incredibly reported, that he's mentally declined. Some illness, maybe I had a dark, but, like, a doom pill, fear that, you know, this is this provocation of the right and going crazy after Trump. And people say, well, the next rubicon to cross is physically harming Trump. I don't think that it would achieve any goal that would be beneficial to anybody who would do it. You'd get sympathy and the protest vote to support whoever would replace Trump. Reverse that. If you want to think like a diabolical, cynical deep state, well, you want to get pity votes and you want to get defiance votes. Find a way to have something happen where Biden is removed as a result of a reaction from the right because they can't stand what is happening to Trump. They lash out. You get to blame it on them. Maybe put in some more laws as far as surveillance goes, maybe put in restrictions as far as voting goes because of the risk at this point. I think Biden is just a deep state pawn. And the only question is how to most effectively politically, you know, steer the ticket come November.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, they could use the hunter Biden thing as an excuse to get him out of there. You know, like I'm son, right. I feel the need to pardon my son. I think this is a political persecution. Sad, sad, sad. Drugs, drugs, drugs. And I liabilities with that. So here's the baton, Michelle, did we any votes there?

Viva Frei
Gavin? I would go to Gavin over Michelle, but no. Or something is disclosed. Something is disclosed during this trial that, that is just the sinking, you know, the sinker for Biden. I mean, look, evidence is going to be a juice. There's going to be stuff that comes out. Maybe some massive bombshell comes up like he objectively lied. Biden stood up there on the, on the debate stage and lied. That that's not enough is a sign of the politics. But something worse can come up.

Megyn Kelly
He certainly did. And we could have played a three minute soundbite of Biden repeating that lie about the laptop being disinformation and it wasn't real and so on. I mean, we could have gone over the failing media cross examining, and I use that term in air quotes, Hunter Biden on the claims in his book and the laptop and him saying it might be real. It might not be real. I mean, I mean, CB's, you ought to be embarrassed. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Guys, what a great hour and 20. Loved every minute of it. Thank you both, Viva and Phil.

Phil Holloway
Thanks for having us. Great to be here.

Megyn Kelly
Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No B's, no agenda and no fear.