Hunter Biden's Criminal Trial Begins, and Media Celebrates Trump Verdict, with Emily Jashinsky and Eliana Johnson | Ep. 808

This episode focuses on the beginning of Hunter Biden's criminal trial for felony gun charges and contrasts media reactions to Donald Trump's recent legal verdict.

1. Hunter Biden faces serious felony charges, which the episode suggests are clear-cut due to evidence discussed.
2. The trial's location in Delaware and the Biden family's influence there could impact the jury's decisions.
3. Media coverage is critiqued for potential bias in handling the cases of Hunter Biden versus Donald Trump.
4. The judicial and prosecutorial handling of the case shows possible favoritism and procedural irregularities.
5. The episode provides insights into the broader political ramifications of the trial for the Biden administration.

1. Introduction and Context

Megyn Kelly introduces the topic, discussing the implications of Hunter Biden's trial and the media's response to Trump's verdict. Noteworthy is the contrast in media handling of both cases.

2. Details of the Charges

The specifics of the charges against Hunter Biden are outlined, with emphasis on the nature of the felony gun charges and the evidence purportedly supporting them.

3. Judicial and Prosecutorial Concerns

Discussion about the judge's and prosecutor's backgrounds, highlighting concerns over impartiality due to their ties with the Biden family and political affiliations.

4. Media Bias and Coverage

An examination of how different media outlets are covering the trial, with criticism of the perceived double standards in reporting on Biden versus Trump.

5. Political and Legal Ramifications

The broader political and legal implications of the trial are discussed, including how the outcome might affect the Biden administration and public trust in the judicial system.

1. Critical Media Consumption: Encourage listeners to critically analyze media coverage of high-profile cases to identify potential biases.
2. Understanding Legal Processes: Educate on the importance of understanding legal processes and the roles of different judicial figures.
3. Political Awareness: Highlight the importance of staying informed about the political implications of legal cases involving public figures.
4. Community Engagement: Suggest engaging in community discussions or forums to discuss and reflect on such cases to foster a more informed public.
5. Support for Judicial Integrity: Advocate for supporting initiatives that promote transparency and integrity within the judicial system.

Megyn Kelly is joined by Emily Jashinsky, D.C. correspondent for Unherd, and Eliana Johnson, editor of the Washington Free Beacon, to discuss the details of the Hunter Biden criminal trial starting today, why he most likely is guilty, Hunter's history of drug use and treating people poorly, President Biden politicizing the case by weighing in, how the media is covering for President Biden as the Hunter Biden trial begins, how the Hunter judge rulings have been far more fair than Trump trial Judge Merchan, Dr. Fauci grilled before Congress today, his lack of accountability and refusal to take responsibility, the truth about mask mandates and social distancing that we know now, how the Democrats and Biden will call him a “convicted felon” as a campaign focus, whether Trump getting jail time or house arrest would help or hurt him, the left getting a little too excited over the Trump verdict, George Stephanopoulos' obvious bias, Joy Behar’s oversharing about "leaking" after she heard the verdict, speculation over Melania and Trump’s marital agreements, Mehdi Hasan’s terrible commentary on MSNBC, who the Trump VP pick will be, RuPaul’s Drag Race’s disgusting clip about "top surgery," how it is insulting to women everywhere, and more, and more.

People

Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, Megyn Kelly, Emily Jashinsky, Eliana Johnson

Companies

• None

Books

• None

Guest Name(s):

Emily Jashinsky, Eliana Johnson

Content Warnings:

None

Megyn Kelly
Hey, us cellular customers, I've got good news, so don't hit skip forward just yet. I'm talking about their special customer event, us days. What's us days? It means exclusive offers just for their customers just to say thanks. Like $1,200 off any phone plus $300 off any tablet.

Eliana Johnson
No, I didn't misread that.

Megyn Kelly
They must really like y'all us days at us cellular. Exclusive offers just for you, just to say thanks. Right now, us cellular customers get $1,200 off any phone plus $300 off any tablet. Terms apply.

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live from SiriusXM headquarters in New York City. And happy Monday.

Well, it's legal election season. I wonder if this is gonna be our four year tradition. We have an election and we have a few trials of all the people who are actually running for office or their families.

This will be great for me because this is right in my wheelhouse, but I'm not sure how great it is for America. We are getting ready now to watch Hunter Biden get a taste of the Trump treatment as he goes on trial for his felony gun charge. And we will see how the Democrats and the media will spin the convicted felon talking point after the former president received a guilty verdict late last week. I mean, they keep saying like 34 times or 34 time felon.

It's so dishonest. Like, all the coverage about this, right? It's like he was, he was convicted of one crime. It was a made up crime. It was literally a made up crime. And now they're going to keep referring to him like he was Osama bin Laden. So good luck navigating the media coverage on that as Hunter Biden's trial begins in Delaware today in a federal court there. President Biden is in Wilmington. He's there to support his son, who the media would like us to remember. He loves. He loves and doesn't judge.

It's Hunter Biden's turn, and we're kind of interested to see what happens there with me today to discuss it all, the eJs. Eliana Johnson is editor of the Washington Free Beacon and co host of the Ink Stained Wretches podcast. And Emily Jasinski has a new job. She is now the DC correspondent at Unheard. That's h e r d. Ladies, so good to see you in person.

Eliana Johnson
Great to see you.

Emily Jashinsky
Thanks for having me.

Megyn Kelly
It was so fun. Got the party together.

Eliana Johnson
Yes.

Emily Jashinsky
We're not drinking alcohol. We have diet Coke.

Megyn Kelly
But do you notice, like, we're kind of color coordinated. Look at us.

Eliana Johnson
Mind melting in our neutrals, right?

Megyn Kelly
I know. We're so cute.

All right, so let's start by talking about Hunter Biden. Cause I do think this is very interesting. Now, the president's son goes on this felony trial. This is just the first of two. The second will take place in September. And it's the more serious, I think, tax charges, though not the most serious ones that could have been brought against him, because this, you know, so called special counsel David Weiss, who's the weirdest special counsel ever, he's really more on Hunter's side than he is on the government's. Let the statute of limitations expire. Anyway, now we go on these gun charges. There are three felonies that accuse him of lying to get the gun in the first two charges and then actually illegally possessing the gun in the third charge. And I wonder what you think about the fact that it's a Delaware jury. It was federal court.

But the Bidens are beloved there, right? I mean, they're just rock stars throughout the tiny state of Delaware.

And it's a Trump appointed us attorney acting as special counsel.

But this guy is completely Delaware and Biden friendly. And Joe and Hunter Biden's going to get a jury of all Delawareans.

Right. Which is good for him, unlike Trump getting a whole jury of New Yorkers. So how do you see this case as we kick it off today with jury selection?

Eliana Johnson
You know, it's different from the Trump case in that the gun crime is really cut and dry. It's clear he did it.

Emily Jashinsky
I thought you were gonna say is real.

Megyn Kelly
That's true.

Eliana Johnson
You know, I think for Trump, the matter of the jury, he had a hostile jury, and the jury pool was important because the crime was difficult to understand.

A lot of it was a matter of interpretation. Having a hostile jury hurt him. And that is probably what that hinged on, the hunter Biden gun crime. I'm not sure, like, the jury would have to be really favorably disposed to hunter Biden because this is a clear cut crime. He. Everyone knows he did it. He's guilty.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And they're saying now we'll hear his defense, that he's going to, we expect, take issue with the form which reads, are you a drug user, an illegal drug user, or an addict? And that he may try to argue. At the moment I filled out that form, I had gone to rehab. And so for that two hour period, I was not either of those things.

Emily Jashinsky
Worst 2 hours of his life.

Eliana Johnson
It's gonna be hard for him to contend with the contemporaneous messages from his. I guess it's not a mistress, but his sister in law, who he was sleeping with, beau Biden's widow, who was sending him messages while she had taken the gun and disposed of it behind a supermarket, an upscale supermarket somewhere, and said, this is dangerous. I'm concerned. You're on drugs. You need to check yourself in. And she will be called as a witness, as will his ex wife Kathleen Buell, to speak to his state of mind at the time. It's pretty hard to contend with those emails, text messages.

Megyn Kelly
I guess I resumed the use right after filling out the form. That's what caused her concern. But there's just no way a jury's gonna buy it.

Eliana Johnson
No, you're gonna need the most gullible jury on the politically or politically motivated. And it's true. I totally agree with you. Like, David Weiss's technically a Trump appointed prosecutor, but my understanding from talking to, you know, our same people, like our friends who understand this is that he is a Republican, you know, in the loosest sense of the term. But only somebody Biden friendly would have been approved of by Delaware senators.

Megyn Kelly
He seems more like a Democrat in republican clothing.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah, well, I am really interested in how they're able to muddy the waters because some of the reporting to the conversation we were just having is that Abby Lowell? I mean, Hunter Biden has a great legal team. They're going to try to talk about addiction issues. From the reporting that we know addiction issues, they're trying to play the sympathy card, the emotion card. The president himself, as you mentioned earlier, Megan, coming out and saying what he's going to say with a Delaware jury, I don't know. I actually feel like there might be a chance you can muddy the Waters pretty well.

Megyn Kelly
Unfortunately, I think you're right. I mean, I think what Eliana said is true. He's guilty. That seems obvious. We'll listen to the defense. But on paper, if this is what he's going to argue, didn't technically fall within those definitions, he's toast, or should be. But we're kind of looking at a similar situation to the one Trump faced in that if politics drives the verdict, he actually could get acquitted. Right. Even though he should be convicted, anything's possible.

Eliana Johnson
But I think we should talk about one other difference that is, I think, interesting to watch is that the judge in the Trump case was a partisan, a Biden donor, and did a lot to make that trial friendly to the prosecution. The judge in this case was the one who would not sign off on the gray deal. She is taking. Pardon my language, she is taking no shit from the prosecution. And Abby Lowell is a skill, both a skilled defense attorney and skilled in spinning this. You know, he's skilled in the DC PR wars, and I don't think he's done very well. Like, people are not being spun by what these charges are, but this judge is not having it.

Emily Jashinsky
She.

Megyn Kelly
I know. I love her.

Eliana Johnson
She's Mary Ellen Norrika.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, they caught. She caught Hunter Biden. She's the one who caught Hunter Biden and David Weiss, Hunter's prosecutor, working together to let all of this go for a misdemeanor charge and bury all of it. The tax charges, the most serious. Anything having to do with his Burisma deal. That's how the original plea deal was written. And she was the one who was like, wait, what's in here?

Why am I agreeing to this? And she caught them red handed. So I like the judge, but it's a weird situation where only the judge wants it to be a fair trial for the prosecution.

Emily Jashinsky
It is hard to take this trial seriously with Weiss, like, as the prosecution after that. I mean, the media has not talked about this at all. Basically, there was some decent reporting while it happened, but this should be a huge part of the narrative. I had actually even forgotten about it. It wasn't even front of mind for me that the judge had to do that last summer because it just slipped into the background of the whole conversation. But that's a huge theme of this trial, no question about it.

Megyn Kelly
She passed one on her and she was like, oh, no.

Eliana Johnson
She said, I will not be a rubber stamp, were her words. I'm not rubber stamping this.

Megyn Kelly
She already excluded the expert witness that Hunter tried to get in through, his lawyer, Abby Lowell, who was, to your point, Eliana, like, an addiction specialist who's going to what, walk us through? I mean, who hasn't known an addict? Who. I mean, most of us have known an addict or had an addict in the family. That's just how pervasive this problem is. And virtually none of them go out and buy a gun that's illegal and lie on the forms to get it. Like, that's not a thing that is caused by addiction. Like the need to have a gun, buy a gun and lie on the form. So you can't blame when their father's.

Eliana Johnson
About to run for president. Yes. And there are serious risks. You're putting your family members at serious reputational and physical risk. That is what Halle Biden was saying. Like, I'm afraid.

Megyn Kelly
And his response in those text messages was, screw you. And also Beau Biden, her recently demised husband. Well, he had a gun in his glove box. It's like, well, he was the attorney general of Delaware and not a drug addict. Like, you're in a totally different field. But he admits he doesn't say he didn't have it. Like, all the admissions are in these texts and in his book, Emily, where he wrote extensively about his drug use, including right around this time.

Emily Jashinsky
Right. It's right around this time, although I can still see them trying to wiggle out of it legally because it wasn't the 2 hours that he filled out the form or whatever, but actually, that the point that Halle Biden is a witness.

Megyn Kelly
That's a picture my team has put up. That's him with his crack pipe. Although now he says it wasn't a crack pipe.

Emily Jashinsky
It's just a pipe.

Megyn Kelly
It was some other. What kind of pipe is that? I don't know.

Emily Jashinsky
Oh, boy.

Megyn Kelly
It was a meth pipe, and I didn't do meth.

Emily Jashinsky
That's gonna be his meth pipe.

Megyn Kelly
He was posing. He was. Let me tell. I told my audience, my old pal Kelly McGinnis and I, we were thick as thieves in high school. And we went out, we had a bunch of people over anyway, like a couple of morons. We took pictures of all the teenagers in our house drinking, like, wine coolers and beer. And then we left the pictures on the counter like a couple of numbskulls. Anyway, I thought you were gonna be.

Emily Jashinsky
Like, well, we just had a crazy night. We did some meth.

Megyn Kelly
My friend Kelly's like, do you think we could tell your mom? Cause she found the picture that we were just posing with. Funny beer pictures. Now, that's what Hunter Biden's gonna argue. Yeah, it was a funny. We were just posing with the funny.

Eliana Johnson
Meth pipe with my eyes closed, totally separate to everything. But, you know, one of. One of our great reporters at Beacon made this comment that Hunter has a bizarre predilection to photograph every moment of his life. Like, why do these photographs exist?

Megyn Kelly
It is.

Eliana Johnson
It's really strange. And we haven't even and gotten to this child support case. I mean, this man is not an upstanding citizen.

Megyn Kelly
It's a good point, though. He's like a kardashian in that way. Like, he never. I don't think he's ever taken his penis out of his pants without turning on the camera. He's really proud of it. And you know what? Shouldn't be. But anyway, I digress.

But, Siri, he loves taking pictures of himself. Himself with young girls, himself with the crack pipe, the meth pipe, you name the pipe.

Eliana Johnson
And the exhibitionist.

Megyn Kelly
The gun. Yeah, let's not even talk question. He had the gun.

And so then the whole affair with the ex wife. Not the ex wife, the widow, the sister in law. The widow of Beau Biden. I will tell you, that is, like, the one piece of this whole story that makes me feel some sympathy for those involved. Cause it's like, I think everybody involved loved Beau Biden. And I think Beau Biden might have been the best Biden. I think we lost the best Biden there was. And that, to me, seems like an obvious expression of grief by his widow. You know, like, she was obviously very lonely and sad, and somehow, you know, hunter Biden meanders over in his drug induced haze. And I just feel bad for her because she got sucked into this relationship with the worst Biden, arguably, and, well.

Emily Jashinsky
Actually, there are a lot of options.

Megyn Kelly
And then next thing you know, she's having to call the FBI on him, which is what happened. She found the gun. She disposed of it near this school, but everybody leads with that. But I don't think she was trying to get a child in danger. She was trying to get rid of the gun. She called the FBI, told him where she put it, they found it, and he went off on her. He was so angry with her that she sold him out to the feds. And never did he say, I didn't do any of this. I'm not guilty. He was just like, you effed me. Nice family, lovely people.

So tell us about the child support. Turns out he's even more of a derelict than we knew.

Eliana Johnson
Right. The child support case is something that we learned through a report in axios over the weekend, has been playing out in the background over the past several years. And we knew that during the time that Hunter was drug addled, and yet, apparently selling his public relations and legal services for millions of dollars to foreign clients, he owed upwards of $30,000 a month in alimony to his ex wife, Kathleen Buell. And I believe I'm right when I say only paid it once since 2017. I may not have be totally accurate on that. So check me.

Megyn Kelly
This is what he owes her.

Eliana Johnson
Upwards of $2 million.

Megyn Kelly
Citing that reporting, Jim Garrity. National Review says, as follows, in January 2021, just after Biden's inauguration.

A DC court found Hunter was in breach of his divorce agreement and owed Kathleen Buell more than $1.7 million in spousal support, legal fees and interest since their 2017 divorce. The divorce agreement called for Hunter to pay Buell $37,000 a month, plus 50% of anything he made over $875,000 annually. I mean, this guy was raking in.

Eliana Johnson
Dos, as you all know, almost upwards of 2.6 million.

Megyn Kelly
I think he did not pay the additional spousal support he owed in 17 and 18, when he earned 2.4 million and 2.1 million, respectively, according to the court documents. As a result, the court determined he owed Buell 1.1 million, plus 6% interest for 17 and 18. He also largely stopped paying her monthly alimony after she filed her lawsuit in June of 19, adding to his unpaid debts. I mean, he's just a loser, this guy. And yet all you hear from the press is drug, drug addled. What drug addled loser is pulling in $2.1 million? Like, there's something nefarious afoot. But he's not using any of that money to support his family, his wife, according to these papers, it's all going up his nose, and that's why he's in trouble.

Emily Jashinsky
These children's grandfather is enabling it, basically by being roped, allowing himself, willfully being roped into the lobbying scheme, because Hunter Biden is selling his father's name. That much is clear, abundantly clear. We have the laptop now, but even then, it was clear. Without the laptop, we already knew this. He was basically flying. He flew on Air Force two to China to fight. Right? I mean, like, well, Joe Biden was vice president then afterwards continued to sell the family name for policy consequences in the United States and abroad. But basically, basically from his insight or his influence over american politics, so that Joe Biden allowed himself to be willfully brought into that scheme in which his son is making lots of money and not using that money to support his own family is, I mean, shameful.

Megyn Kelly
So now we've got President Biden going to Wilmington and actually making a statement like, well, on the eve of this trial, I just want to say that I love my son, and it's more of that. But can I tell you, it's still inappropriate. It's not appropriate for the sitting president of the United States to be commenting on any sort of a criminal guy. I said this last week when he commented on Trump, stay out of it. Stop it. Some way or shape or form, you're influencing things the Trump case still has to go up on appeal. Your son's case is in the process of jury selection, so be quiet, shut up, pipe down. You don't have to comment on everything. It's a clear attempt to influence those Delawareans who love the family. Biden.

Eliana Johnson
I will say from that vantage point, Biden is playing it politically well. Like the best thing he can do is a play for sympathy.

And I do think it would behoove him to say, my son did not act properly or appropriately. He can't do that because it would be an admission of guilt. But I do think it would get him some respect with the american people, and it would be the right thing to do when some of this comes down. But the play for sympathy is obviously what they're going for. There was an article in the New York Times and an article in the Washington Post this weekend that not only is he not distancing himself from his son during this, he's bringing him closer. They were seen biking in Rehoboth beach together over the weekend.

And that's. And Hunter Biden attended a state dinner for Kenya maybe two weeks ago, where Merrick Garland was also in attendance.

Megyn Kelly
And so the optics, essentially prosecuting him.

Eliana Johnson
Yeah, the optics of this are not appropriate.

Megyn Kelly
No, you're completely right. So this New York Times article she mentioned, she mentions Emily, I'll give you a couple of lines from it. President Biden wakes up every day to a list of concerns he must address as commander in chief. But at the top of that list, people who know him say, is a concern that nags at him as a father. The legal problems of his son, Hunter Biden, Mister Biden, has refused to shut out his son or treat him as a political liability. In fact, the president has a tendency to pull his son closer. The worst things seem to get. And on and on it goes. I don't remember a single article like this about how much Trump has to manage and the stresses of the trial on him, and how nonetheless, he's running this multimillion dollar business and running for president and holding his family close while he navigates these tricky waters.

Emily Jashinsky
You know what's interesting about that is it's the media regurgitating the exact line of argumentation from the Biden family. So it's not as though they're, like, being a little bit skeptical of it. Like, wow, this was a pretty messed up foreign lobbying scheme where he was making all this money and then doing all this drugs, blah, blah, blah. No, they're just straight up taking the Biden administration's side, the Biden family side. Like, no skepticism, no nuance. Just, this is really tough.

Eliana Johnson
And beyond that, there may be some truth to this. Okay, maybe Biden is upset, but the guy is also running for reelection, and everything should be viewed through a political lens. And I have not seen any coverage about the political tactic of playing for.

Megyn Kelly
Sympathy because they're in on it.

Eliana Johnson
That is part of this as well.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, they have no desire to call attention to that.

Eliana Johnson
And frankly, President Trump does a different version of that where he says, I'm a victim, I'm being persecuted, and that's his version of that. That is always covered as a political tactic.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, that's right.

Eliana Johnson
What Biden is doing is not covered as the same sort of playing politics.

Megyn Kelly
We've seen Politico drop an article on these two judges who are going to be covering handling this case, and then the one that's coming up in September, pointing out that they're very tricky because they both have a background in patent law, which is very sneaky because it makes it tough for the Senate Judiciary Committee to reject them when they come up for nomination because patent law is so boring. No one can figure out what your political bias is. They just know you were appointed by Donald Trump. It sucks. That's really what politico is arguing here. They're pissed off that both of these judges are Trump appointees and that they got on because of their fucking background and patent law.

Emily Jashinsky
Sorry, I think this is much more funny to somebody who's gone through law school.

Eliana Johnson
So is this canon and Narika, or is it Norika?

Megyn Kelly
And the other one is Scarzi, who's gonna handle the September trial on the tax charges.

Emily Jashinsky
Slippery patent lawyers.

Megyn Kelly
I know. Such an unfortunate draw for Hunter. But honestly, like, this is frankly what we needed in the Trump trial. At least one sane person who wasn't a partisan hack. Right? If the judge had been at least somewhat fair, or, you know, God forbid, even a Republican who wasn't a never Trump Republican, people could have had maybe slightly more faith that the process itself was going as according to plan. Sometimes you get a rabid prosecutor, but the system's supposed to slow down the rabid train because we have protections in place with this. Judge was complicit in allowing Alvin Bragg to do everything he wanted to Donald Trump in a way that really undermined people's belief in the rule of law. The other thing was. Let's see.

Oh, yeah, the judge, Noriega, Norega Noreeka, she also blocked a key piece of evidence that the defense wanted to use about the gun forms, which honestly, was like, the stupidest piece. Apparently, when Hunter Biden filled out the application for the gun form, he needed proof of id, so he showed a passport. So they wrote that down on the forum. And then months later, when the ATF started sniffing around after the gun had been retrieved, you know, the ex, the widow had called all the things, they added a piece about his, like a second for his driver's license, just to show that they got two forms of id. I guess Hunter Biden's team is trying to make this big deal out of that. Like, aha, aha. You see, they messed with the form that is at the very heart of this case. It's not an honest representation of the drug form. And listen to what Norega ruled. This is what we needed in the Trump case. She ruled as follows.

I'm not admitting that altered version of the form because it is, quote, irrelevant and inadmissible. And she went on to blast Hunter Biden's team for pushing it, calling this a conspiratorial theory and saying it is, quote, unsupported rhetoric about the motivations of the Wilmington gun store employees, and says, as follows, this is the line we needed in the Trump case over and over, quote, any probative value it arguably has is substantially outweighed by a danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of issues, and misleading the jury. It's not hard. It's done all the time by federal and state court judges. It just didn't happen in the Trump case on any of those controversial admissions.

Eliana Johnson
That would have been the line about the stormy testimony, at least, and all the sexual, the non prosecution agreement between.

Megyn Kelly
Pecker and the feds, or AMI and the feds, that Michael Cohen's guilty plea on the election charges, federal election violation, none of that. You can say that same thing. Any probative value it arguably has is substantially outweighed by a danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of issues, and misleading the jury. This is an objection you learn your first year of law school. You do it over and over again in moot court, nevermind real court. Every lawyer knows it's available. Every judge knows it's one of the most important tests they have to weigh, not whether it's prejudicial. Everything that comes in against a defendant is prejudicial, unfairly prejudicial, or so prejudicial that the prejudice outweighs its probative value. Judge Mershon refused to do that analysis at all in most cases, and certainly not in Trump's favor.

Eliana Johnson
And then at one point, well, when he allowed Stormy's testimony, he then chastised the defense for saying, you should have challenged this testimony after he had rejected their challenge, allowing the testimony like it was wild.

Megyn Kelly
Eliana, it's so bad because what happened with Stormy's testimony is the defense went up to the bench before she took the stand and said, we don't think this is relevant. We think it's highly unpre, unfairly prejudicial.

Emily Jashinsky
They were questioning the probative value of storm.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, there you go. Thank you, Emily. See, you did go to law school, right here. I just put you through it.

Emily Jashinsky
I'm just hanging out.

Megyn Kelly
So they went up there and said, this should not be allowed. And the prosecution said, will you open the door by saying he didn't have the affair? And opening statement, okay, fine. That is something they shouldn't have done. So now she's coming in. But then they said, well, you should limit the testimony severely.

Did she have the affair? Blah, blah, blah. And the judge was giving them a long leash to question stormy day. So they had already lost. Like, the judge wasn't like, all right, you can ask me the following five questions. And that's it. The judge was like, go for it. So having lost, the defense sat down, and like many defense attorneys, didn't want to look to the jury like, this is killing us. This is terrible for us, by continuously popping up, object, object, object, object on every single question. And then it got out of control. And the judge blamed the fact that it got out of control on the defense.

That's just one example.

Emily Jashinsky
But it's amazing because the media, like, I read multiple media reports that said Marshawn made multiple accommodations to Donald Trump, that he was just accommodating Trump left and right. He let him have a tv room or tv while he was in the waiting room. So he did everything. He bent over backwards to accommodate Donald Trump.

Megyn Kelly
That is ridiculous. I know. I was arguing with Dan Abrams on News Nation, and he was like, he didn't let in the access Hollywood tape. I'm like, okay.

Literally, there would have been a mistrial that minute. But he did let in the transcript of the access Hollywood tape, which, why was that in there? That, that did not belong at all in this trial. And you should have seen the things that he was gonna let the prosecution cross examine trump on. If Trump took the stand, like in the Harvey Weinstein case, it effectively prohibited Trump from taking the stand. It was, there was so much extraneous stuff from things having nothing to do with this case that as an effective matter, Trump could not take the stand and he didn't take the stand, as you know. All right, so that's Hunter Biden. We will continue to watch it.

Anthony Fauci, everyone's favorite villain or superhero. I don't think there are a lot of us who see him as in between, is back on the stand now in front of a House committee that's probing how he handled Covid. But really his dishonesty in responding to congressional inquiries over the past few years, a couple of headlines out of it were, have been number one because we've seen correspondents leading up to it. But today's the hearing.

One, Fauci admits there's nothing behind the 6ft.

Nothing. They had no idea that he doesn't know where that came from. He's not the first one from NIH to say this, but it's interesting to hear him admit it. No clue. It was made up.

Shocked, shocked. Secondly, could not remember what, if any, evidence was behind school mask mandates.

I don't think there's been any studies that, you know, that we base that on. I don't know. No, no, no. Can't remember.

By the way, Thatcher Brunt was right. My son, who stood up in second grade and like Norma Rae, refused to go along.

Like, I'm not wearing it.

Emily Jashinsky
Dead poets society, like on the desk.

Megyn Kelly
He took it off and the teacher said, you have to wear it. And he said, the CDC did a study of 90,000 children in Georgia and it proved that masks do nothing.

And then she sent him to the principal's office. That's where we got involved. Anywho, vindicated. So here's the biggest thing on Fauci, though. This is interesting.

In the lead up, I'm gonna set it up. I think we have, we have the sound, don't we, guys? All my sound bites are everywhere.

I don't know. My team will tell me whether we have the Fauci sound.

There's a guy named doctor David Morens. He's a top advisor to Fauci. And in September of 2021, they now have his emails. This guy, Morens or Morenz, and he's corresponding with Peter Daszak, who is a villain in my view. He's the guy who runs EcoHealth alliance. That's the group that partnered with the Wuhan lab to do gain of function research. Let's say it'll be so fun if we figure out how to make these viruses even more dangerous for people.

Emily Jashinsky
And let's do it in China.

Megyn Kelly
What could possibly go wrong?

Eliana Johnson
Let me engineer a statement of american scientists saying, we agree this absolutely did not come from a lab and publish it in a scientific journal, call it a conspiracy theory, and then I will.

Megyn Kelly
Somehow wiggle onto the who investigative body that's looking into the origins of COVID and go all the way over to China to do my investigation of myself and then exonerate myself. Even 60 minutes had to call B's on that in a great interview where they were like, hello. Okay, but that's Peter Daszak corresponding with. This guy is supposed to be representing us. Fauci's guy Morenz or Morens. David.

So here's Morenz. He writes to Daszak.

I try to always communicate on Gmail because my NIH email is FoIA to constantly. So annoying when I have to respond to the people.

That was my last part. Moran's. Don't worry. Just send to any of my addresses and I will delete anything I don't want to see in the New York Times.

It's right there, black and white. And he had, he had testified behind closed doors in January, denying that he ever attempted to delete Covid-19 records, according to the subcommittee. So why was he saying this to Peter Daszak? Saying, just send to any of my addresses and I will delete anything I don't want to see in the New York Times, or I just communicate on my other, my private email to avoid the fOIA. All right, one more thing and I'll get your reaction. Here he is testifying before Congress and being asked about this Fauci this morning.

Emily Jashinsky
Did doctor Morenz communicate with you about official business using his private email?

Megyn Kelly
Official business? No.

Did you ever encourage doctor Morenz to.

Emily Jashinsky
Use his private email address for official business?

Megyn Kelly
No.

Okay, so Jeney, he knows nothing.

Emily Jashinsky
My favorite thing about this is that Morenz is patting himself on the back in writing about how clever he can be to avoid Foia, but he's putting it in an email that can be Foia.

It's so perfect. Like, he really thinks highly of himself, but he can't even avoid Foia because he's writing it down.

Megyn Kelly
It reminds me of that guy biff in back to the future, right? Was Mister potato head. Wasn't that it?

Eliana Johnson
Or.

Megyn Kelly
No, no, no. I'm quoting the guy from war games. Remember that guy? Probably. You're too young. War games, mister potato head. Sorry. My audience, and they know it.

Eliana Johnson
I've seen no movies. What, you've seen no games? No.

Megyn Kelly
With Matthew Broderick?

Eliana Johnson
No.

Megyn Kelly
And Ally Sheedy. Oh, he's so cute. You got to rent that. It's amazing. It's about the computers taking over. Yeah. And like launching World War Three.

Emily Jashinsky
Anyway, sounds like a relaxing weekend. You'll rent it.

Megyn Kelly
You'll enjoy it.

Eliana Johnson
It's an interesting soundbite. And forgive me because I didn't see the hero hearing this morning. So my question may have been answered in the hearing, but he says official business. No, I'm curious. What would Doctor Anthony Fauci's distinction between official business and unofficial business be? And would he consider emails about how to evade public records requests? Official business or unofficial business?

I'm quite curious where he would draw that line. And I think, you know, overall, many of us had a sense all throughout Covid that the authorities who were telling us 6ft away and mask wearing inside, outside, oh, actually, not outside, but inside. And the guidance was changing over time that they didn't really know and that it wouldn't have been that hard and everybody would have understood if they came forward and said, we're dealing with something novel. We're telling you what we know as we understand it. The guidelines will change, but we're doing our best. And frankly, there's a lot we just don't know. But instead they came out with the authority of God and chastise people for asking any questions about it. And I think that is what really rankles people is that they passed this down with real authority rather than saying, we're not sure this is the best we can do right now, and we may come back to you and tell you we were wrong with real authority.

Megyn Kelly
And knowing, like, a know it all. You're a dumbass. I'm an infectious disease specialist. Right? Like, I dismiss your questions because you're too dumb to understand.

Eliana Johnson
And the results they have done grievous harm to the cause they represent in any kind of major national health emergency going forward, nobody will trust what comes out of the mouths of these people.

Megyn Kelly
He was asked recently what harm has been done to public health, to vaccine skepticism. Like, has it gone up and down? And he was like, well, you know, I guess we need a study. We need a study. But he acknowledged that the mandates may have increased vaccine skepticism.

I never want to see him again. I either want to see him behind bars or not at all. And I know, like, I don't even like to talk about it because it's so irritating what they put us through and nobody got fired. I'm like, Fauci's still out there. Yes, he retired, but he's still probably making a ton of money doing consulting and all that. There's been no real penalty to any of this. Our kids were hurt, no real penalties. So it's annoying, but I do feel a civic responsibility to cover this guy's lies and the slow admissions as he makes them.

Emily Jashinsky
You know, I guarantee you got a tongue bath from some of the Democrats on that committee today. If. If they asked him question, I guarantee that's what happens. Probably not. It's probably not approved by the NIH to give him tongue baths. It's, like, not an approved form of affection, but it's. They punished people who asked questions. You know, it wasn't just that they were enforcing this. They actually punished people who dared to ask questions. The media was obviously in on it. They were colluding with speech platforms, but they actively sought to suppress free speech in this country on the grounds of information that they were not even certain of and not even reasonably sure of because they didn't know. So they made 6ft up. They completely pulled it out of thin air. I would love to hear more information on that conversation, actually, because it's a window into how they made a lot of decisions at that time.

Megyn Kelly
We played that video over and over of the little toddler boy who, they kept shoving his mask on over and over and over, and he was crying and he didn't want it. You know, he's a baby, and he kept crying in daycare and they just wouldn't let up. I can't remember his name. I used to know it, but it was like, here you go, Patrick, or over and over and over.

Emily Jashinsky
And they were like, yay.

Megyn Kelly
Yay. And he just kept crying and pulling it off.

He doesn't remember how we got to mask mandates for children. He doesn't remember the data that supported that because there were none. There were none. And all the studies that have been done left, right, and otherwise since the pandemic stopped have proven that. And the left wing media just won't do any sort of come to Jesus moment where they look at their own mistakes and they admit that they're the ones who led us down this path. It's just infuriating. So we'll continue to watch him. Do we have another one, you guys? Did you say, oh, we have more fauci. He's asked about mask mandates. That's right. That's coming up right after the break. Don't go away. More with the ejs right after this.

Emily Jashinsky
Put the mask on.

Eliana Johnson
You gotta wear it on the honey.

Megyn Kelly
No, you gotta keep it on.

Emily Jashinsky
Put your mask on.

Eliana Johnson
There you go.

Megyn Kelly
Keep it right there.

Eliana Johnson
Yay, Mason.

Megyn Kelly
Yay.

Emily Jashinsky
Keep it on, Mason.

Eliana Johnson
Look, we're gonna keep it right here.

I see you. Keep your mask on.

Emily Jashinsky
Put your mask back on.

Eliana Johnson
What are you looking at?

Megyn Kelly
You gotta keep it on your face so they go outside. Oh, my God, it's awful.

Eliana Johnson
There you go.

Megyn Kelly
Sweet boy.

He was right.

He was right.

It's emotional to watch, isn't it? F you, Doctor Fauci. That's because of you. And now he's like so blase. I don't know. I can't remember what supported the mask mandates.

I think we just made up the distancing like nothing. Nothing. So poor Mason, you don't think that did some damage every day? That kid likely went through that just as all the kids did. So here's Fauci being asked about some of the masks this morning. Watch.

I'm going to go through a list of COVID mitigation measures that you supported over the course of the pandemic and ask you to give me a yes or no as to whether you believe these measures were justified. Business closures early on when 5000 people were dying a day. Yes. Church closers, same thing. School closures again, stay at home orders.

These were important when we were trying to stop the tsunami of deaths that were occurring early on. How long you kept them going is debatable. Mass mandates for adults. Mass mandates for children. Mass mandates for children under five.

And going back to what I said before, all of that is in the context of at the time. Mass mandates for children under five. Scientific evidence for that. Excuse me? Mask mandates for children under five. There's scientific evidence supporting that. There was no study that did masks on kids before. You couldn't do the study right because it would have been abusive. But he doesn't. He doesn't. There's never going to be an accountability for Doctor Anthony Fauci. The left has determined he must be lauded.

He's not getting tried on false felony charges or real felony charges for that matter. He's going to remain a superhero to them. It's disgusting. And I applaud the house's effort to call attention to the fact that he knows nothing. It was all an act. He knew nothing. And he tortured our children, both in that way and with mandatory vaccines that caused myocarditis that wasn't disclosed. And there are still kids suffering from that, not to mention those who have died. Yes, kara swisher. They've died because of these animals who pretended they knew answers that they didn't know. Just absolutely infuriating, by the way, on this, this guy Marens fauci said what he was doing using personal email indeed violates NIH policy. He was asked by representative comer.

So doctor Morens edited a letter that Doctor daszak sent to the NIH. NIH. Did you know that? Does that violate policy? Yes, that violates policy. He was asked. Doctor Morerens provided Doctor daszak advice for how to mislead NIH on ecohealth's late progress report. Does that violate policy? That was wrong. It was inappropriate. It violated policy.

And on it goes.

Okay, so that's enough about anthony fauci, because I can't stand him like this.

Eliana Johnson
It's true, megan, that, like, okay, he's not. Nobody's gonna sanction him officially, but I do think that, broadly speaking, the american public is aware that they were misled and told to do things on the basis of no evidence. And for some, for a narcissist in the way that he is, I'm not sure if you guys saw. He allowed a camera crew to follow him during COVID And there was a doc, there is a documentary about him, 90 minutes or so, that shows him kissing his wife through a mask in his own home, among other things, and crying when Biden is inaugurated.

So for somebody like that who craves public approval, I think that is its own sort of punishment.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Right. That he's. He's been outed.

Eliana Johnson
People know.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
As truly like a know nothing.

Okay, well, look, if you want to let know the list of things Trump did that he shouldn't have done, that would be at my. At the top of mind, trusting that guy and not firing Anthony Fauci. It was a massive mistake. Ron DeSantis was right. But it is what it is. I mean, we have an even greater Covid enthusiast in the White House right now. Right? I mean, Joe Biden would probably still have us masked if he thought he could get away with it, politically speaking. All right, and speaking of Donald Trump, the aftermath of the shocking verdict, it wasn't really shocking, but the, the fact that former president was convicted was continues. Some of the media over the weekend trying to get their arms around the significance of this. Hold on a second. Here was the first one. Trump had used the term, I'm a political prisoner. Now. He's not technically a prisoner right now, but he could be. He actually could be soon.

And it was the weirdest thing. It's got a lot of coverage on Friday. Joe Biden was walking out of oppressor.

Not on this entirely, but he was asked this question as he walked out, and this is how he responded. I'll describe it for the listening audience. Assad eight.

Mister President walking away, Donald Trump refers to himself as a political prisoner and blames you directly. What's your response to that, sir? Turns Smurf do you think the conviction will have an impact on the campaign?

Turns back we'd love to hear your thoughts, sir. Should he be on the ballot?

Eliana Johnson
Sir?

Megyn Kelly
Slowly shuffles away.

What?

What was that?

Emily Jashinsky
I can't answer that. I have no idea what that was.

He doesn't know what that was. Nobody knows what that was. There's no way of knowing what just happened.

Megyn Kelly
He was, for once, he held his tongue. He was dying to answer it, right? He was dying to say he got weak.

Eliana Johnson
He can't actually tell if he heard the question.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, he heard it.

Eliana Johnson
It looked like a total senior moment. He's like shuffling off the stage and.

Megyn Kelly
He would have just kept moving if he didn't hear it.

Eliana Johnson
It's true.

Megyn Kelly
He heard it and he was, for once, holding his tongue.

Emily Jashinsky
It's interesting because he's been trying to walk this line of commenting on the case, but not making it, quote, political sort of line that we've seen drips out to the Beltway media outlets recently, is that Joe Biden is. He's going to comment on this, but he doesn't want it to look like a campaign thing or politics. So when the verdict comes out, he's going to be at the White House. That's as political as it gets. Isn't that your problem when Trump had the RNC at the White House, is that it was political. And so the nature of the question, it makes me think, if that's what, in Joe Biden's head, that's what the wheels were turning. Like, well, you don't want to get too political with this, like the political prisoner question. You know, this is just Joe, you're just doing this to stay above the fray, to be the bigger man. I have no idea what goes on in his head.

Megyn Kelly
Okay? But meantime, he and Trump, well, more Trump than Biden, are gonna have to wrestle with how much this comes up over the next four or five months. Right? Like Joe Biden may not continue to say convicted felon, right? He hasn't said it yet, but his campaign said it multiple times since it happened. And Donald Trump is talking about it, though. It just happened and he just got ungagged. And we think, by the way, that was only reported by CNBC and I reported, I quoted them on my show, but I'm not 100% sure that the gag order has been totally lifted. Like, I wonder what would happen to Trump if he went out there and started ripping on the jurors. I actually do wonder. I'm not sure this judge would allow it, which is, would be really unfair.

Emily Jashinsky
Well, you just gave him a fun new idea.

Megyn Kelly
You should do it. They're fair game. I'm sorry. You're not forever immunized from criticism just because you served on a jury. Then what the hell? Of course you're not. Anyway, we'll see. So Trump has the decision how much, if at all, to mention this going forward, right? Because, like, right now, Republicans are pissed. Sorry. Peeled. That's the one word my mom really doesn't like.

She doesn't like any of them, but that's the one she called me on and they're mad. So you could play into that, but mention it too much instead of inflation and immigration. And I think the patients will run thin.

Right. Pretty quickly. Here's just a little bit. He gave an interview with Fox and Friends Sunday and he talked about whether he's going to jail or not. Sot five.

They could, the judge could decide to say, hey, house arrest or even jail. They couldn't face what that could. I'm okay with it. I saw one of my lawyers the other day on television saying, oh, no, you don't want to do that to the president. I said, you don't beg for anything.

Hmm. Don't beg for anything. Maybe he would be okay with, I don't know. I mean, I think he'd have a different kind of jail experience than the three of us would. But what do you make of, like, the strategy? How much does he talk about it versus other people's issues?

Eliana Johnson
I think it was a powerful primary campaign issue and his base is following every twist and turn of this. That's an important contingent to continue to keep energized and activated. But he's like, the general election is on and he's got to talk about general election issues. And to that, I think being under house arrest or in jail would really impact his ability to go out there and campaign. Being on the trial did. It impacts his ability to host fundraisers, to meet with donors and to get out and campaign. And Trump did try to overcome that during the trial where he could get in front of the camera every day and deliver a three minute message. But the same is not going to be true for house arrest or jail. So, so that could hurt him. I think he should be saying, like, I need to be able to go out and run my campaign. And it really does undermine democracy. If one of the two general election candidates can't get out there and make his case to the people they know. I was convicted, let the people decide.

Megyn Kelly
That would be powerful. I know it's like, it's tough because I heard, I was listening to the New York Times, the Daily today, the podcast, and it's a love hate relationship, man, because I listen to hear what the left is saying, and then every time you're like, oh, my God.

So today they were on there talking about how every day, from the Biden camp's perspective, every day Trump talks about this instead of inflation, is a win. And I can see that over in Team Biden. I mean, with the caveat that right now, the right is incensed over this. And the more Trump talks about it, probably the more, you know, it keeps that fire alive.

Emily Jashinsky
I think there's also one thing that I haven't heard talked about enough, and it's Biden is out here campaigning like he was in 2020 on normalcy and lowercase democracy, restoring normalcy from all of the chaos of the Trump years. And he's now the one cheering on this norm shattering, precedent shattering decision to potentially sentence the former president to prison, but to convict him on 34 felony counts with, what is the phrase that MSNBC used at one point, like a novel legal theory? Something like that. Perfect. But he's now the one that is cheering for the shattering of norms. I don't think that feels normal to people. I don't think that feels decent to people. And I also think it's easy for Biden like it is for Trump. But it's easy for Biden to get caught up in the spiral of talking. Every time you mention your opponent, you call him convicted felon and then you pivot to talk about inflation. Well, you probably just undercut whatever you're about to say about inflation with some percentage of the american population in a close election.

Megyn Kelly
But that is the plan. Dan Pfeiffer, the guy who got, you know, Obama elected, he said, first of all, we should never miss an opportunity to refer to him as convicted felon. You cannot say it enough or in enough spaces. It needs to be drilled into the heads of the american people who aren't paying that close of attention.

You know, the polls do support that. There's some sliver of the electorate that doesn't want to elect a convicted felon. And sadly, the polls are showing that the overwhelming number of Americans polled think this was a real case. They don't know they're living their lives. They're not paying the close attention.

Emily Jashinsky
How could you with this media? I mean, even if you paid attention, it would be hard. If you only paid attention to the Times, MSNBC, Washington Post, your local Gannett affiliate, it would be really hard to know what the hell just happened.

Megyn Kelly
Even my pal Dan Abrams at News Nation, who I mentioned, who I really like, but their whole mission is to be like, down the middle. I mean, what he was saying to me the other night is like, of course it's illegal to pay off somebody in order to help your campaign. If you pay somebody under a non disclosure in advance of your election, it's illegal. No, it isn't. It's a lie. It doesn't violate election campaign finance lie. It doesn't violate any law. This whole thing was a lie. Pause there. Quick break right back.

Here's some polling on how the verdict's going over so far. Latest poll from ABC News and Ipsos shows, and this has taken in the past couple of days since the verdict, that in their word, it has had minimal impact on public opinion. And they go through all these numbers about, okay, among Republicans, 16% say Trump should end his campaign. 75% say he shouldn't. A majority of independents, 52%. And Democrats, 79 say Trump should end his campaign. Then they give the big reveal. These figures are essentially unchanged from a similar question asked in April. Like, so nothing. I'm like, oh, my God, look at all the independents running. No. So it's the same. It's had no impact so far. We'll see. Morning Consult says 15% of Republicans believe Trump should drop out. That, that tracks with what I just read off of ABC.

That, let's see, that's basically a majority of independent voters. 56% said the conviction will not affect their vote. 45% of Americans say they're independents. 46% of voters said Trump should be sentenced to prison. 44% said the same in the morning consul. Anyway, the bottom line is so far, not much of an impact at all. And yet you've got, as I said before, Dan Pfeiffer out there saying at every turn, people must be reminded that he's a convicted felon. Like, this is the one thing that could actually change the voters who have been immovable thus far.

Is he wrong? Cause here's a little bit more. He says repetition is the key to a successful message. And we want people to wrestle with the notion of hiring a convicted felon. For the most important job in the country.

And he goes on to say, know the targets, moderates and young people, and don't expect the race to shift overnight. But this is the way forward.

Eliana Johnson
This is based on my expertise of zero in polling. So I'm glad everyone's tuned in for this. But my sense is the following.

I'm sure the Biden campaign and team Biden's polling on their messaging is more sound like, sure, they've determined, and they found in polling over a year that this is a damaging message, calling him a convicted felon, than the flash polls done in the 24 hours after the verdict that came out. I don't put any stock in those.

I also think there is a lot of time between now and the November election, and big things are going to happen that are likely to be more important than this verdict that will become baked into public sentiment. I just, my all important gut is telling me that, like, a lot's going to happen between now and then that will make this recede into the rearview mirror a little bit.

But it's true. Trump is going to have to come up with a message to contend with what the Biden message is, which is convicted felon. Like, okay, his message should be, what are they afraid of? Like, let the people, let me run, let the people vote and you all should decide.

Megyn Kelly
But this is where it's spinning now. Did you see JD Vance on with Wolf Blitzer or the highlights of that?

Eliana Johnson
Yes.

Megyn Kelly
So this is, there's a longer clip. We just cut a little bit. But this is where the left is going now with the narrative.

Eliana Johnson
Watch what happened to the republican party.

Megyn Kelly
Being the party of law and order. We are the party of law and order. But you can't have law and order judges been convicted 34 times. Law and order violating law. Law and order is not having a judge who donates to the political opposition to Donald Trump and then tries to throw Donald Trump in jail. That's the opposite of law in a way.

Okay. But it keeps going. And I heard this from a lot of circles on the left, that the Republicans are not the party of law and order because they're not accepting this verdict as legit.

Emily Jashinsky
And the other thing Democrats, I think, are totally underestimating, it's not that, of course, there's some percentage of the country that's going to be uncomfortable with a convicted felon being president. There's no question about it. But again, you get into this really interesting issue where it's real. When that guy is four days before the RNC supposed to be sentenced. That is something that, that image, I don't think they understand what that could do because again, just being convicted, there have been so many cases thrown at him that it's, it started to, I mean, I think people are getting numb to it. There's so many charges thrown at him.

Megyn Kelly
Emily, what, what if we don't think this guy's going to sentence, I don't. Trump to jail.

And a lot of the lawyers who were on my show last Friday and we had like, the who's who of law said even if he does sentence him, he'll likely maybe suspend it. Where you don't actually have to serve the time. Right. As long as you're a good boy and you don't violate the law or potentially at least postpone it post appeal.

But I mean, what if this guy's a true lunatic and throws him in jail?

Emily Jashinsky
Before the convention, he donated, what, like $15 to the Biden campaign? Dollar 35 to the Biden campaign, which I saw Byron York make a great. And I think Amy McCarthy was making this point, too. That's only something you do if you want people to know that you're on the team. There's no other reason to give $35 as a judge.

Megyn Kelly
That's true. Why take the risk?

Emily Jashinsky
Thing to do. So, I mean, that really could happen.

I think it's probably, if I had to put money on it, I wouldn't say that it was going to happen, but it is not a possibility. And that image, again, I don't think I was walking by the Supreme Court yesterday with a friend walking behind the Supreme Court because I live in the area and I was looking at it and I was like, like, I don't think democrats know what they've done. I don't think they know what they've done. When the immunity ruling comes out, this was the last place, the courts were, the last place that people really trusted, and they burned that trust for 34 felony convictions on what? A hush money payment to a porn star in the service of an election violation.

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Emily Jashinsky
Well done.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Basically, two misdemeanors that stitched together, allegedly made a felony, both of which were time bars. I mean, that's really what just happened. You know, I do think about this sometimes when I'm just like trying to upset myself.

Trump could lose this election.

I realize he's ahead in most of these swing state polls, but anything could happen. We got five months to go, four months, really, until the early voting really kicks in October, and then five months till election day. And the Democrat war machine is formidable and they get out. The vote machine is formidable and Trump is not popular. He's not, but neither is Biden. They're both in the low thirties on their favorability rating. So the electorate continues to dislike over all the choices that they have. So it's not a lock. And there's no sign of slowing down on either of the federal cases. Or if Fannie Willis doesn't get booted on the Atlantic case, if she gets booted, ballgame. I do think that case is over. If she doesn't get booted by this appellate court, it's on.

And what would happen if Trump loses?

I think he's going to jail.

Eliana Johnson
Yeah, he's going to 100%. And Trump has to run a serious and disciplined campaign, which has not historically been a strong suit. But I do think this is like we're living. The prospect of a hanging focuses the mind because Trump knows, like, his future is contingent upon him running a very serious campaign. Also, his choice of vice presidential nominee is very, very important.

Exactly. Someone who will help him in the polls.

And so he's got to take these things seriously. He's got to run seriously and, and carry a disciplined message. That's what Dan Pfeiffer is talking about, that the Democrats are going to do. They're going to hammer home the same message over and over and over again. Trump's got to think hard about what that message is. And what, what two words is he going to leave in the mind? Exactly. But will the new surround his neck? Focus the mind?

Megyn Kelly
Did you hear at his presser on Friday?

He was long and rambling. He was talking about that story about, from Cassidy Hutchinson, about him allegedly grabbing the wheel of the beast on the January 6, which is interesting. Trump's always interesting. But you are like, everyone is listening to you right now. It's like your first big presser after the verdict. Like, what a great time. Stay on point, keep hammering. You've got three points or five points. Just keep hammering them over and over.

That is not a discussion for today.

I do worry Trump off prompter is not as strong these days, like in terms of staying focused.

Emily Jashinsky
Well, and another good point that Eliana made was his, one of his big messages is such a good one, which is let people vote. Let the american people vote. Don't try to take this away from me, from them by putting me in jail or by throwing all these convictions at me. Just let the voters decide. Don't use the novel legal theory. Just let people go to the polls. And that's a really argument, but it's from his perspective, I understand why psychologically you would get bogged down in all of the incredible. It's like that meme from it's always Sunny in Philadelphia with Charlie at the board where he's pulling strings in different directions attached to different pictures. Because Cassidy Hutchinson. Why is he even thinking about Cassidy Hutchinson? I know, but he was genuinely. The media spread a totally stupid story, which was untrue.

Megyn Kelly
The Secret Service involved has since come out to say, none of that is true. That did not happen.

Emily Jashinsky
But people can't follow that. Yeah, that's why he's frustrated.

Megyn Kelly
Like, I feel for him. That's why he's frustrated. He's like moral lies that we're told that people just got away with and they're best selling books, but they weren't true. Right. So he's got to live with it.

Eliana Johnson
This is like neither here nor there. But to go back to that Wolf BlITZER clip, can we just talk for a second about how nonsensical and stupid that line of questioning is?

It is hard for me to believe that he is really not capable of understanding and having a serious argument about, about the fact that many Republicans and conservatives don't think this was a good case. And, oh, if you don't believe this was a good case and you don't think he should have been convicted, then you can't be the party of law and order. It's so stupid. And it's like evading the real argument to have a specious gotcha television moment. That's so dumb.

Emily Jashinsky
Yes, because it was a talking point that his friends that work in different lobbying firms texted him clearly. Cause it was going around Dem Circle clearly.

Eliana Johnson
Yeah. When we talk about lobbying and order, we're not talking about, like, putting the former president behind bars. We're talking about like, the southern border and the people like, you know, shoplifting.

Megyn Kelly
From CB's wolf and the criminals who are like, attacking women on church steps in New York.

Eliana Johnson
Stupid.

Emily Jashinsky
Dwayne Reed. Eliana.

Eliana Johnson
And like, he knows that.

Megyn Kelly
That's right.

There are CV's. Dwayne Reed is. So here's a little bit more from Stephanopoulos and his take on where we are right now.

In 1774, John Adams said, representative government and trial by jury are the heart and lungs of liberty. 250 years later, the heart and lungs of liberty are facing what may be the ultimate stress test. Jurors have yet to consider charges against Trump for even more serious crimes. Blocking the peaceful transfer of power, concealing classified documents encouraging the filing of false electors. But for now, the New York jurors have already presented their fellow citizens with a choice.

Do we want to be represented? To be led for the first time in history by a convicted felon?

Now, is it any wonder he did not get the debate?

He got the he ho on the debate. ABC chose two other people and not their chief political correspondent. And that is why. Because ABC News in that, in that choice, ABC News in that choice is acknowledging he is biased. He can't be fair. Hello. We all know that. That's why he didn't get chosen. He's owning it more and more on the air and it's ruining ABC's reputation.

Emily Jashinsky
And they're letting him keep that platform. It's not, I mean, so take him off the debate. But he's still the anchor of your Sunday show and your chief political correspondent. You know that. He was like in the hamptons in like a library, his personal library that, like, smells of leather bound books and rich mahogany, like the anchorman line. Just like getting very excited about what he just wrote. Like maybe even sack excited about what he just wrote. It's so stupid. It's so stupid. Especially in a case where you have all of the different problems that the media ignored that we talked about earlier. This is not cut and dry. It was novel legal theory. There was all kinds of funny business going on. The judge voted. The judge donated to the opposition leader. The other campaign.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. And the name of the group that he earmarked the money for was about as leftist as he was. Like the campaign to stop republicans and their far right agenda. Yes. Make sure my money goes there.

Emily Jashinsky
And I'm getting lectures on John Adams, the heart and lungs of Liberty from George Stephanopoulos, a Clinton staffer on ABC. Give me a break.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, like, would the average person sitting and listening at home have any idea who George is rooting for?

If this is the choice we made.

Emily Jashinsky
He'S rooting for democracy.

Megyn Kelly
Right? Sure. All right. But no one was worse than, I think it's fair to say, joy Behar, who gave, I mean, from the department of TMI.

This was Joy on the view on Friday.

Eliana Johnson
What was your reaction?

Emily Jashinsky
Well, my reaction was I was at Costco buying, you know, ten boxes of Keurig coffee, and my watch started to buzz and I got so excited, I started leaking a little bit.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. Just when you didn't think you could be more upset, you have to picture Joy Behar's vagina. I'm sorry.

Emily Jashinsky
Leaking at a Costco.

Megyn Kelly
I don't want, I didn't want it. I didn't want any of the events that happened late last week. What's going on? Why there's such a thing as TMI. There really is. Like, it was inappropriate, she's inappropriate. It was disgusting. And no one wants to be thinking about that. But on the larger point, that's how rabid they are. Like, it literally caused her to pee her pants. She was so excited to see Donald Trump convicted. Like a three year old seeing goofy at Disney for the first time.

Emily Jashinsky
Well, imagine then you're having to make this decision about sentencing, and your biggest fans are the people that viscerally, they have a lust for Trump to go to prison.

So that's why I still don't rule it out. I wouldn't put money on it, but I still don't rule it out because that's who he's responsive to. And she is representative of such a tiny, tiny slice of the population. And I don't deny that it's real. I don't think it's exclusively rich white women who watch MSNBC. I'm sure there are some other people who really, really hate Trump and want to go to prison, but it's not the majority of the country on this case. It just isn't. And this is where they, this was the battle. They chose the hill. They chose to die on.

Megyn Kelly
I said this on Friday, but I heard more of it over the weekend. You could actually hear the smiles, like in some of the podcasts and the radio broadcasts about this verdict. And then when you watched some of the, you know, leftist media, there it was again. I mean, there it's like.

But for the word hallelujah, it's all in there. They're just overjoyed. Here's a little speaking of joy, from Joy Behar to Joy Reid, watch this. In Sot 15, this case was brought in a state that no republican controls because if it did, the same thing that happened in Georgia would have happened here. Thank God for the state of New York, Donald Trump's home state, because there was no way for him to interfere with the process of justice. And in this rare instance, as somebody who's quite critical many times of the criminal justice system, the system actually worked the way it is supposed to work. Oh, my lord.

The same thing that happened in Georgia would have happened here. What? Alvin Bragg would have started shtupping his ADA, and they would have been outed as paying the ADA more than all the other prosecutors, thus calling everybody's objectivity into question. Cause that's what got the Georgia prosecution in danger, not a Republican.

Emily Jashinsky
This, like, leftist opponent of the criminal justice system also just cheering on a RICO case.

Megyn Kelly
Get him. Right. Right. Exactly right.

Emily Jashinsky
Go for it.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, the system worked. Like, this is the narrative that's being sold. The system worked. Law and order. No one's above the law. And that's why you have those big numbers of people who think the jury came to the right decision. Like, he violated the law and we had to hold him accountable.

In very few places do you hear the actual truth, which is he actually didn't violate a single law. Law. He actually didn't do anything wrong. It's not just that. Like, he did some bad stuff, but it wasn't criminal. He didn't do anything wrong. He really didn't. He paid off people who were extorting him. Honestly, Stormy Daniels is the one who did something wrong. She came at it. She wasn't even threatening a lawsuit, which makes this extortion. She came up and basically said, give me $130,000 or I'm going to tell my story publicly.

Eliana Johnson
Well, I mean, look, probably wasn't great judgment and great moral or ethical behavior to have an affair with the porn star. Can we talk about that?

Megyn Kelly
I want to talk about that. I don't want to defend extramarital affairs by any means. My husband would be dead if he did any of this to me. But I have to say I don't really have that much sympathy toward their marriage or I don't know what his deal is with Melania. If they had a covenant for him to be faithful, she would have left long ago. Why is she still there?

She's seen what we've seen. Woman after woman after woman after woman. And not just the crazy ones who came out of the woodwork when he was first running.

History of affairs that seem very credible. There's no way Melania doesn't believe Karen McDougal. That one seems like pretty cut and dried. I just think. It's not that I approve of it. I just don't have the moral recoiling that I would if this we knew were a real covenant of fidelity between two people. He's very rich. She stayed with him. I'll bet there's a different kind of covenant there.

Eliana Johnson
It's true. And it's, of course, hard to get inside somebody else's marriage, but, like. Like, I'll do it. Look, okay.

Emily Jashinsky
I'll psychoanalyze them.

Eliana Johnson
Yeah, you gotta have sympathy for the kid. And it's a crappy thing to do to your kid to have all this splashed out in public.

Megyn Kelly
Well, it is the crap. He tried to stop it from splashing.

Eliana Johnson
He did. He did. Okay.

Emily Jashinsky
The real hero.

Megyn Kelly
He did. Yeah, right.

Eliana Johnson
Crappy. So I agree with you. I don't think it's illegal.

Wouldn't have done.

Megyn Kelly
Is it immoral if your spouse has no problem with it?

Eliana Johnson
I don't know where she stands. I don't know what their agreement is.

Megyn Kelly
I know. Here's my hypothetical. Is it immoral if she has no problem with it?

Eliana Johnson
I don't want to speculate on what her position.

Megyn Kelly
In my opinion, the answer is no, it's not. It's not.

Eliana Johnson
I don't want to speculate on what her position is.

Megyn Kelly
That's fine. I'm speculating. But I'm saying to me, clearly, she doesn't have a problem with it or she would have been gone.

Emily Jashinsky
Well, I don't think she would have married him.

Megyn Kelly
She wouldn't. Right, exactly. She knew what she was getting. His reputation as a playboy was cemented by the time she married him. He was known as, like, the richest, biggest playboy in New York. He'd been through a few wives. It was very clear. I'm just saying, you get what you get and you know what you're getting. We all do. Some people get surprised and they get cheated on. That's one thing. But you married Donald Trump. You know exactly what you're getting.

Eliana Johnson
And if she didn't, she would have.

Megyn Kelly
Been out of here. She would have been. And I don't judge her. It's fine. This is not how my marriage vows work. But some people have a different deal. Right? And it's not. They're going to take it up with the Lord when they get up there. That's between them and him. But down here on this earth, I am not in a position to say whether he committed some transgression on her, because I don't know what their deal is.

Emily Jashinsky
You know, it's possible, actually, that Melania wasn't bothered by the actual affair, if that's true, that they. I mean, she entered into a marriage with a man who was publicly, openly adultery and sort of proudly. It was kind of part of his vibe, his image, his shtick. He was selling it. He was actually selling his adulterousness that maybe the feigned outrage from the media is not even something that Melania Trump ever experienced. It's kind of interesting.

Megyn Kelly
Well, one of the facts that came out of the trial was that when the access Hollywood tape came out, she was the one who said, dismiss it as locker room talk. It was Melania Trump who, you know, it doesn't sound like she was horrified by this or I'm guessing, and I have no idea, but I'm guessing the deal is you're gonna be, you keep it quiet. You know, or maybe there's an unspoken thing that happens between some couples where it's like, I'm gonna look the other way because I understand what kind of a man I married and I don't expect lifetime fidelity, but I don't wanna hear about it. Right? And maybe the transgression was she wound up hearing about it. All of that would have helped Trump in his trial. Right? Like I promised her, the one thing she wouldn't have to do is hear about it. That's why I paid the money. Had nothing to do with my election, whatever. But none of that should have mattered. His subjective reasons for paying the money or having the money paid were totally irrelevant. Never should have been allowed in. All right, last but not least, let's do Mehdi Hassan on. Was he on MSNBC? Is he going on the network that now fired him? It's so weird. They fire these people and then they invite them back on to do commentary. Here he is.

This is an entire political movement that came to power on the basis of lock her up. This party is based on locking people up to the point where they want to lock up Antony Fauci for trying to prevent a pandemic. They want to lock up everyone. Yes. And then, and then you can't kind of blame them, aim, because they think in that mindset. So they think everyone else is like them. So part of me doesn't blame them in their heads. They probably think, yes, this is the Democrats trying to do to us what we do to them, when ironically, Joe Biden has gone out of his way to not be involved in this trial. In fact, there are Democrats urging Biden. And I'm going to urge the president tonight to actually speak more about Trump's criminal conviction, to actually. Joe Biden should be posting on Twitter every morning and every night. My opponent is convicted felon. 09:00 a.m. 09:00 p.m. he should just schedule the tweets for the next six months. But he doesn't.

Emily Jashinsky
He goes out of his way to.

Megyn Kelly
Stay above the fray on the panel for everyone shook their heads. Yes. Yes. He should be doing all the postings all the time.

Emily Jashinsky
Also, Mehdi Hasan saying that this is the party that ran on lock her up. I was thinking the other day, like James comey is arguably, arguably the guy who's at the top of the mountain having pushed the snowball down the hill. Like, yes, that's exactly the problem, is that Hillary Clinton. Clinton, for so many Americans, Hillary Clinton, the wife of Bill Clinton, who a lot of people feel like oversaw deindustrialization, lied, got away with it, et cetera, didn't go to prison or anything like that. They feel like she got it off. She got off so easy. And here's Donald Trump, and it's one political party persecuting another political party because they don't like those voters. And that's really visceral to a lot of people around the country. So he's not saying anything that contra, he's not making them sound contradictory or hypocritical to even from somebody to the on the left, establishment leftist like Maddy Hassan should say, yeah, lock them all up.

Megyn Kelly
Let's do it. How about the business of Anthony Fauci for trying to prevent the pandemic, sir? If anything, the evidence suggests Anthony Fauci may have caused the pandemic through that very group we were just discussing. EcoHealth alliance, funding, gain of function, research in the Wuhan lab. The truth is never going to come in black and white because the Chinese won't allow us access to the data. But there's more than enough evidence to make that conclusion, and I have made it. That is my opinion. But he certainly didn't prevent the pandemic. The lies just said every turn. So, in any event, my own feeling is Trump should ride this wave for a little while, and he should be righteously indignant over what just happened to him and to us, to us, the american public. In our legal system, the rule of law was breached, but not by Trump, by them, in this extraordinary extralegal prosecution of a former president of the United States and chief political opponent to the sitting president. And he should ride that piece, piece of it, you know, but very soon, he should pivot to just the key issues that are. That were driving people to him even before this week. Right? Immigration, inflation, the economy, whether you're better four years ago than you are now, Joe Biden's age and infirmity and all of it. We touched on this a minute ago.

I do think Trump's vp choice is more important now than ever. Like, I think people realize, like, they're out to get Trump. They'll do whatever they can. I mean, I did hear speculation from some on the right.

They're gonna take them out. Like, there's a lot of worry. I don't even like to say it, but, like, they're worried that Trump is gonna get assassinated.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
And there's a chance Trump could be in jail.

Chance small. But between now and November. So he needs a good campaigner. You know, you need somebody out there who can campaign for him, who's articulate, who's bright, who's savvy, who can fight with the press. So who is. Is that.

Emily Jashinsky
What do you think, Eliana?

Eliana Johnson
I think there are a few things for him to think about.

I think he needs someone who's perceived as serious on the issues. Somebody who could actually govern, I think would help him because Trump is not perceived as particularly serious on some of those things. Somebody who's disciplined. I think he needs someone who can help him raise money.

They are not raising, look, the verdict helped them raise money, but overall they're behind. And all of this stuff is impairing Trump's ability to do that. So somebody who's skilled at that would be good. An emissary to donors, I think is important. And third, I think somebody who's perceived as being able to do the job, who people are comfortable with doing the job, and who can unite different factions of the party.

Trump has two choices. He can double down and get someone who's a super maga, or he can get someone who, who could attract independent voters and could may different opinion from him on some things, but could convince Democrats and independents to come over.

There's a case to be made for both, but I think he would do well to pick someone who would unite the party and could potentially attract independents and the ones who are on the fence, people who are on the fence.

Emily Jashinsky
So in both of those categories, I'll just put an example. I would say you just described Tim Scott for the independence and JD Vance for the, like, kind of doubling down on the MAGA base.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, he's the one that you could pass the MAGA baton to.

Eliana Johnson
The vague Ramaswamy is another one of.

Megyn Kelly
Those people in the JD Vance lane.

Emily Jashinsky
But JD can raise money and Tim Scott can raise money. They're both very connected to fundraising.

Megyn Kelly
And neither one of them is so unacceptable to like the more establishment Republicans that they'd be a deal breaker. You know, that's true. Vivek's tougher. I think I like him, but he's a tougher sell with the establishment Republicans because it was Nikki Haley war. I don't think Trump would even consider Nikki. He basically said as much.

There's too many core republicans who are really against her. But you could get somebody who's a little bit more establishment y. If you're Trump, you really have a decision to make about whether you want a pass the baton, the MAGA baton, to, like, a junior. Not. There's no junior Trump. Well, there is actually an actual junior. You know what I mean?

Eliana Johnson
An Elise Stefanik is in there. But I think there are a couple real contenders for the position who we've seen go out, and Trump turned the trial into a proxy campaign where he had these people come up and give little campaign speeches from. I think Doug Bergam is a real contender for this job.

He's curious, he's wealthy, he's broadly acceptable to people, and he's competent.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And he's. He's mildly attractive when he's handsome.

Eliana Johnson
He is handsome.

Megyn Kelly
Jenny Vance is legit attractive.

Eliana Johnson
And also, I think Tom Cotton could be a contender for this job. You know, he doesn't have charisma, but he's. He's acceptable to.

Megyn Kelly
I like Tom Cotton straddled the MaGA.

Eliana Johnson
Wings, but he's a serious person.

Megyn Kelly
But he's too conservative. He's too conservative. He doesn't need the conservatives. He needs the more moderates.

Emily Jashinsky
I think that's true.

Eliana Johnson
And Bergam is like a blank slate in certain ways.

Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
He's like the patent attorney.

Emily Jashinsky
And people are already circulating opposition research on Bergam, which tells you that they have reason to believe it's a very serious possibility.

Megyn Kelly
And I'm gonna throw this out there.

Eliana Johnson
I actually don't think Trump is gonna make a calculation. I need a woman. I need a minority. I think he's gonna ignore all of that and pick the person he thinks is genuinely gonna help the ticket.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, so what his people told me was that he's gonna pick. Just pick somebody he wants to spend time with, somebody who he genuinely likes. And that made sense, but that was last September. Now here we are, five months before the actual vote, and truly, like, Trump could be going to jail. Like we said, if he does not win, he's going to jail more than likely. And if I were Trump, that would make me look at not Nikki Haley. Cause, you know, you have, like, people like Tucker saying he would actively campaign against that ticket, which does. Trump's gotta pay some attention to that. So, not that far establishment for the number two, but somebody who would bring.

Eliana Johnson
In DeSantis is a possibility here. I also think, although one of them.

Emily Jashinsky
Would have to switch their residency because of the strangest rule ever.

Megyn Kelly
All right, same for Marco.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Eliana Johnson
And I think Trump would sort of relish making somebody do that. You know, it's like a way for him to exert his control over them. But I think DeSantis would actually unite the party. Republicans like him. He's serious, he's young.

You know, he's a fundraiser. Not going to get independence, though he will not too soon.

Emily Jashinsky
After the failed campaign for decade, I feel like he still has the stench of the loss on him.

Eliana Johnson
I think he would be a fine choice. Like, he's not perceived to me.

Megyn Kelly
I would like that. And I think you would like.

Eliana Johnson
What about our friend Katie Britt? Is she out of content?

Megyn Kelly
I think she's out.

She came on the show, I asked her about the weird voice, and the biggest reveal of the whole day was that's how she actually talks.

I was like, oh, my God, I was wrong. I was wrong about your fake affect on the state of the union response. Cause that's how you actually speak. Anyway, she was a nice lady, but she's out. She's out. Yeah, I actually know dog killer. Oh, out, out.

Eliana Johnson
Hubby.

Emily Jashinsky
I think Tim Scott is a really sound possibility. But the other person I would be looking at is JD Vance, especially because he can defend against the law. Fair, really articulate.

He's also learned from this kind, like, post Trump conservative approach to media in a way that I don't think Tim Scott has nailed yet, which is to just demolish them. Yeah, flip the question. You don't have to worry about berating Wolf Blitzer.

Megyn Kelly
Here's people against JD. And I love him. Yeah, love him. He says what a man he is. And his wife, she's amazing, usha. Anyway, she clerked for John Roberts.

The thing he has going against him is he was very critical of Trump in 1516. And Trump has a very long memory for that. And even when he was doing his, like, oh, this. So he's like, when he looked at Tim Scott and he's like, oh, yeah, he's diverse. Diversity. I'm in favor of it. Diversity, you might say. This is Trump's riff. So when he got to JD Vance, the first thing that came to Trump's mind was he was very anti Trump back in 1516.

Emily Jashinsky
So was Tim Scott against him?

Megyn Kelly
But he's gone on to be a great senator. He's very good in the US Senate. That just telegraphed to me where Trump's head is on him, which doesn't say vice president. And here's my second reason against JD. This is, I'm thinking like Trump now, he doesn't want someone he can't control.

And I think JD Vance has a very strong independent streak and he's young and ambitious.

Eliana Johnson
I think Trump is threatened by that. That is what he's threatened by with Nikki.

Megyn Kelly
Yep.

Well, she was so critical of him. That's, that'll do it.

Eliana Johnson
And, but, ok, so the critical is a little bit different. I think most of the people he's considering have said critical things about him. It's true of Elise Stefanik, it's true of Nikki Haley. It's true of lot of these guys that in 2015 they were not on Team Trump. So I think Trump is going to have to stomach that with most of these but people.

Megyn Kelly
Nicky's too military industrial complex, tight with the donor class. I know you said that has his pluses, but his base would be very against somebody with that profile.

Eliana Johnson
Trump likes it, though. Trump is going to want, he's going to want somebody who I think can personally write a chance to him. And he likes rich people.

Megyn Kelly
That's true.

Eliana Johnson
She's not rich, but there are other people who are.

Megyn Kelly
She's connected to the rich people.

Eliana Johnson
I think that's appealing to him. That he liked Rex Tillerson.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Eliana Johnson
He's not of that. He was of the donor class.

Megyn Kelly
You think she's still got a shot?

Eliana Johnson
I don't think she's leading in connection because I think he's, I think he doesn't trust her fully. I think he felt her ambition.

Emily Jashinsky
She wasn't sure.

Eliana Johnson
And I think it was after January.

No, she left way before. Oh, that's awesome.

Megyn Kelly
That was Betsy Devos.

Eliana Johnson
But she.

Megyn Kelly
Elaine Cho. Elaine chan. That's one of the reasons he hates her.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah.

Eliana Johnson
But then the question is for someone like Bergam. Bergam actually ran against him in the primary and so did DeSantis. So for all these guys, like, yeah, he's got, like he's gonna have to stomach. Some of them have criticized him.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, but I'm worse than others.

Eliana Johnson
For him, he like, for him, it's gonna be how ambitious are they and how eager are they to shiv me once they're in the White House with me?

Megyn Kelly
Pretty eager.

Emily Jashinsky
Most of it won't be Tulsi, although Tulsi would have a lot of.

Megyn Kelly
Well, some are speculating about Sarah Huckabee Sanders now.

Eliana Johnson
I think she's.

Megyn Kelly
That's interesting.

Emily Jashinsky
That's very interesting.

Megyn Kelly
She won't shiv him.

Eliana Johnson
No.

Megyn Kelly
Right. And she's beloved. She's got no bad baggage. That would be a deal breaker for Republicans.

Eliana Johnson
She's a serious person.

Megyn Kelly
She is she's likable.

Eliana Johnson
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Like, she, she could win over. I mean, I realize Arkansas is considered deep south and deep.

Eliana Johnson
But, but so is North Dakota.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Eliana Johnson
And so is Arkansas. I think Trina with Tom Cotton, she would be.

Megyn Kelly
I know, right. But I think Tom Cotton, he's got too much controversy around him with independence. I like that.

Eliana Johnson
I just mean, I don't actually think that's gonna factor for Trump. I think he's gonna pick jail.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, that's why it should factor. That's what I'm saying. Like, I realize old Trump might be like, oh, who cares? But new Trump needs to worry about prison.

Eliana Johnson
Like, Tim Scott's not gonna win him South Carolina, you know.

Emily Jashinsky
No, but he does win suburbs in.

Megyn Kelly
That's what Trump is.

Emily Jashinsky
And I think this is all going in favor of Tim Scott, actually, because he's just a safe option. That also comes with advantages. He's close with the big donors. He's, like, really well liked among suburban women in particular, can neutralize any Biden attempts to go after Trump as being a racist or whatever.

And he's pretty, like now passionate about defending Trump.

Megyn Kelly
Did you happen to see the Ann Coulter clip with Vivek?

Emily Jashinsky
Yes, of course.

Megyn Kelly
It was extraordinary.

Emily Jashinsky
It was.

Megyn Kelly
I have to say, vivek handled himself beautifully in that exchange. She said, I like a lot of your positions, but I won't be voting for you because you're an Indian. The only way only Ann could, like.

Emily Jashinsky
Her timing was perfect.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. She's like, because you're an Indian. She says right to him. And he's like, expand on that. Right?

And then she says, we have a long tradition in this country of electricity wasps, and it's like, baked into our country's DNA.

Oh, and I agreed with many, many things you said during, in fact, probably more than most other candidates when you were running for president, but I still would not have voted for you because you're an Indian. There is a core national identity that is the identity of the Wasp. And that doesn't mean we can't take anyone else in a sri lankan or a japanese or an indian. But the core around which the nation's values are formed is the wasp.

And he's like, basically he lets her play it out. And he kind of says, like, aren't you kind of doing what the left does? I'm like, identity politics is what should rule the day. And I view people through these, you know, these prisms.

There is a question about, you know, the Republican Party has not elected or nominated a black man as their president or vice president. And there's got to be some calculation in Trump's head about whether that will help and hurt him. Getting real here. I mean, it's nice to say it'll be only a plus, but there's also some risk in it because of, as ant puts it.

Yeah, not that we're, not that we're agreeing with this. I'm just saying. No, yeah, you got to be realistic. He wants every vote he can get.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah, that's true. That he would, I could say, see him, like, calculating that. Although there are, I mean, there's a big chunk of this country that's Obama, Trump voters, arguably a demographic that was super influential in him defeating Hillary Clinton in the electoral college in 2016.

So I don't know that it would actually be a problem. And I feel like he could probably be persuaded that it wouldn't be a problem.

In fact, if anything, the numbers that we've seen among Trump, with black men in particular.

Megyn Kelly
Yes.

Emily Jashinsky
If anything, he could even wipe widen that margin, which is already impressive and already enough to make democrats nervous in a state like my home state of Wisconsin, where you've really always had this big divide between the urban voters and people elsewhere, let me ask you a.

Megyn Kelly
Question that how do you think black men will vote for, are more likely to vote for Trump if he has Tim Scott as his running mate? Because I think women are no more likely to vote for Trump if he chooses a woman. I would vote for him more because he chose a woman. I think black men like Trump because they like his economic policies and they like his strength. There's a lot to like about him having nothing to do with identity politics.

Emily Jashinsky
I think that's true. I just don't think vice presidential picks make that big of a difference. But it. Anyway. But it's such a close election that it's possible Tim Scott has connections in, like, he's able to do events in the black community in a way that other people can't. He's able to, like, get out the vote in black community and black communities in ways no other republicans can.

Megyn Kelly
So he's optimistic like his message is.

Eliana Johnson
I'm bearish on him for that reason, actually. I think we. No, I'm bearish because he's too optimistic in terms of his chances for being selected.

I embarrass on him because I think we saw in the primary that he was not a vicious killer campaigner. He is optimistic. Clouds and rainbows. And oftentimes the job of a vice presidential candidate is to do the negative, vicious campaigning and Trump values that I think he's gonna want, like a vicious, cold killer. And frankly, that's something some of these other guys, like, do quite well.

Megyn Kelly
Who would be the best vicious killer?

Emily Jashinsky
But just imagine Tim Scott and Kamala Harris in a debate.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, my God.

Emily Jashinsky
That would be fun.

Megyn Kelly
I'd buy a ticket to that.

Emily Jashinsky
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Who would be the best vicious killer? At least Stefanik. She'd be good tulsi.

Eliana Johnson
There are folks with that.

Megyn Kelly
Tulsi hates the Democrats more than Trump does.

Emily Jashinsky
Quality Tulsi would. Tulsi has already demolished Kamala, so in a vice presidential debate, that would be fun.

Megyn Kelly
And, you know, she's interesting. Cause she would get some crossover. She's have, she'd have some appeal to those independents. And the one downside to Tulsi is like, the republican base might be like she was a Democrat two minutes ago, but I feel like the Republicans are so motivated right now, they're not gonna care.

I don't think Tulsi is the smart bet, but she's interesting. Yeah, I vote for that. I'd vote for that ticket. I'd love to see her. All right, stand by. Speaking of rainbows, it's Pride Month.

That's next. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal, and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love great people like Doctor Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

Go to siriusxm.com mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com mkshow and get three months free offer details apply.

Welcome back to the Megyn Kelly Show. I want to tell you something big happening in the world of social media back in June of 2020. You may remember the platform known as.

I joined it back then. And just a few months later, we booked then CEO John mates as a guest on an episode about the rise of independent media. You know, they're always saying to conservatives, build your own lanes if you don't like all the censorship. Well, this was one of the lanes that was built. Then came January 6, a week later. We had mates on the show, but it was a very different sort of interview, because after the J six riot at the Capitol, Parlers saw probably the most egregious form of censorship in years. The media reported that some of the participants in that riot had used parlor to communicate, but it was way more prevalent on Facebook. Hello? And so Amazon and others killed the app. It was removed from Apple and Google, and it was kicked off of Amazon Web Services, and it never recovered. It was absurd. Well, the app has since gone through several different owners, but there's news I can reveal. For the first time today, Parler is back. The platform that focuses on free speech has returned ad free and with its own parlor cloud this time, so it can never be taken offline again. This is good. This is good. Even though Elon owns x now, which is a positive development, it's great to have a lot of competition in the conservative space and with people who just aren't pro censorship. And that has been parlor. Plus, the new owners have successfully retrieved all users data so everyone can reactivate their dormant accounts and pick up the conversation where you left off.

You'll get all your same followers that you left behind when they went away, when they disappeared into the ether. So I will be back posting there this week. Check it out. If you're interested, follow me there at the username Megan Kelly. Good for you, Parler. Don't let them keep you down.

Okay, so it's pride month, and the nonsense has already kicked off. Now, this wasn't official part of Pride month, okay? But I've got to show it to you because it's the most disgusting thing I've seen online in a long time. RuPaul's drag show. You saw this?

Some nutcase who calls herself a trans man, which means fake. Fake man. Just substitute him fake for trans, and you'll always know what you're dealing with.

Trans man is a fake man. A real woman masquerading as a man decided to go in this drag show with a pair, with a. With an outfit that had fake breasts.

Keep in mind, this woman actually at one point had actual breasts being cut off of her. She's walking down the. Look at this.

This is so disgusting and misogynistic. In her bag are fake bloody breasts walking down.

This is the most disgusting, misogynistic, hateful thing I have ever seen. And it was on paper, paramount plus and normalized and praised. Do we have the thought of them praising?

Up next got Mick now starring in explant electric boogaloo.

This look is something I have been wanting to do for so long because top surgery absolutely changed my life. So I molded my arms. They're wrapping around me with scalpels. I have. I have Swarovski crystal blood. I have a ponytail, and I have two swarovski crystal tits in a bag.

Emily Jashinsky
It is everything.

Megyn Kelly
That's so fierce. It's so gorgeous. Love it. Oh, my God.

Way to glamorize violence against women. The chopping off of female body parts. Gottmik. You're disgusting, RuPaul. Your entire show is filthy, and you owe all of womankind an apology. That is the gnarliest thing I have ever had to see on television. Paramount plus. Do you believe this shit?

Emily Jashinsky
Swarovski blood? I mean, that's.

There are a lot of women who suffer with that feeling of dysphoria in their body and dysphoria. I mean, the goal of treating dysphoria is to make you feel at harmony with your body. Again, the blood and the slightest icing. That's not what that is. That's not what that is. That's disgusting.

Megyn Kelly
It's like celebration of mutilation and self harm that what? Young daughters who think the RuPaul drag queen show would be fun. Just as you're channel surfing, you've got to see chopped up boobs being swung around and a panel of men dressed as women saying gorgeous right on.

Eliana Johnson
The thing that that's disturbing and upsetting. But the thing that is, I think, harmful about that is that gender dysphoria is not normal.

It's a minority thing. And we don't try to normalize anorexia or anything else or addiction and parade it on runways to be celebrated. Like we say, these things are diseases to be treated.

We don't say, this is beautiful and we should make fashion around it. And the fashion world has been rightfully criticized for propping up and celebrating things that cause harm to women's health, such as overly thin bodies, and is correcting for that at the same time that they're propping up something else that is harmful.

Megyn Kelly
Can you imagine?

Eliana Johnson
And trying to suggest that it's normal. It's exactly the same thing. Like, being as thin as fashion models were, is not normal. Normal for women. They shouldn't believe it. And neither is removing one's breasts.

Megyn Kelly
Can you? Totally healthy breasts, by the way. Can you imagine what would happen if they had an anorexic walking down the Runway holding, like, pounds of her fat? That she had had lipo'd while she looks like she's on death's door and then, or like an addict whose teeth had fallen out from all the drug use, like, swinging her bags of teeth around and everybody like, gorgeous. You go, girl, you hurt yourself just as much as you want. Do it all the way to the grave. We'll be here making money off of you and applauding the whole thing. This is a new low.

Emily Jashinsky
It's so light, too. I mean, the way that they act is, it's just beautiful. It's light. It's not a debate. You know, there's nothing, you would never know that that was controversial from that clip because it's on Paramount. Plus, it's being sponsored by a major corporation. It's on one of the most popular shows. I mean, it's just, it's a comedy show, and that's not beautiful. It's not something. I mean, that's agony for people who experience it. So to treat it like it's a light and beautiful thing, it just goes to show that they really want people's bodies to be treated as widgets. Now, if you're unhappy with your breasts, you chop them off and you make a joke about it on a comedy show.

Megyn Kelly
I lost my show at NBC because I said people used to wear these costumes where they would tint their skin, and it wasn't treated as controversial. Roseanne got fired for her comment at ABC. She hosted the number one show in all of television about Valerie Jarrett. And she says it's a case of racial misgendering because she thought Valerie Jarrett was white.

This is totally fine. No one's going to lose their job for glamorizing violence against women, whether it's self harm or otherwise imposed. By the way, this is both. This is somebody choosing to chop off her healthy breasts and a surgeon willingly chopping off somebody's healthy body parts. And then a room full of men celebrating it like RuPaul, as if it's as normal as a daisy. Like it's totally fine. Bring it on. And young girls sitting at home thinking, this is something beautiful to be glad. Glamorize the chopping off of healthy body parts. Fuck these people. I'm sorry, but this is depraved. There's something seriously wrong with this swarovski blood.

Emily Jashinsky
I cannot get over that. I cannot get over that. I mean, it is.

Megyn Kelly
We reached out to Paramount plus and said, do you stand behind this?

Is this what you want children to be seeing as they watch your disgusting channel not surprisingly, they didn't get back to us also.

Emily Jashinsky
Is this what you want Pride month to be, right? Is this the face of Pride Month, the body of Pride Month? This is what is being celebrated?

Megyn Kelly
That's how you're gonna kick it out? That's what you're asking me to celebrate with your flag, right?

No, is my answer. Not happening. Sorry to end on the dark note, but I've been meaning to get to that, and I didn't think I'd get a better panel on that than you guys. It's just so gross and it's so alarming. And it's like, why isn't everybody speaking out against this? Like, why don't we have everybody saying, you've gone too far. That's wrong. We don't want that on regular television.

Eliana Johnson
Well, I think the truth is that gays and lesbians really have been normalized in society. And so Pride Month has moved way beyond that. Things that actually are. And so now the efforts are to.

To push things that really are on the edge of medical technology into the mainstream and have them be what? The gay, you know, what the gay pride movement was 20 or 30 years ago such that we won't even blink an eye at it or have any kind of reaction. We're blinking three decades from now.

Megyn Kelly
Well, we're blinking and we're not done.

We're not done. Paramount plus, this is not the last you've heard of us. Emily, Eliana, thank you both so much. Great to see you here in person. Tomorrow we got another in person guest. Dave Rubin will be with me for the full show. We'll see you then.

Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No b's, no agenda, and no fear.