Hillary Was the OG Election Denier!" | Bill Maher x Megyn Kelly

Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show. And we got a treat for you today. Joining me now is someone I've been wanting to interview on this program for years. He is one of the sharpest political commentators around, someone who's not afraid to take risks and has been politically incorrect for decades before it was cool. And whether you love him or hate him, you pay attention to him. Joining me today is Bill Maher. He's author of the brand new book that's just out today. What this comedian said will shock you. He's also host of the long running show real time with Bill Maher on HBO. Bill, welcome.

Bill Maher
I must say that book title is a lot funnier when you see it because it's supposed to mock clickbait.

Megyn Kelly
Of course I got it immediately.

Bill Maher
Okay, I know, but I've had book titles that went right over the heads of.

Megyn Kelly
This is the tease we used on Fox News for about two decades without the words comedian. What you hear next will shock you.

Bill Maher
Right?

Exactly. I thought I would bring it to the book world.

Megyn Kelly
No, I used to joke that once you start talking in teases, you've been in tv too long.

Bill Maher
Right. But I had a book, a new rules book out about 15 years ago, and the subtitle was polite musings from a timid observer, which I thought was hysterically funny. But every disc jockey in America did not get it. They just took it. It's like, okay, no, that was understatement. And it's supposed to be satire. But never mind, stay with me. I'll just do a straight title next time.

Megyn Kelly
So my favorite new rules ever comes from about, I want to say about 15 years ago, and it was from the book. When did that book hit?

Bill Maher
There was one out in 2005 and I think 2010. Of course, those are new rules books. I call them toilet books because you can read them on the toilet. New rules are very different than this book. This book is from the editorials. I really redid all of them. I mean, I worked like I could never have done this without the strike. The strike that we had last year gave me the time to do this. But this is much more of a real book. The new rules books were fun, but new rules are short, they're punchy, they can be about anything. They're not always serious.

It's just they're very random. And again, you can pick it up on the toilet and read three or four of them, and that's that. This is a real book.

Not that the other ones weren't real books, but I have ones I lured.

Megyn Kelly
Into in my previous purchases.

Bill Maher
Jesus, they were fun. But I feel like this one I'm more proud of than any book I ever did. Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So speaking of the toilet, my favorite new rule was, new rule? Stop giving tickets to blind people for not picking up after their dogs. You see, they would, but they can't see shit.

Bill Maher
Yeah, right. That was the new rules book. They're funny and punchy, but this one I think people should treat like the Bible. I think they should put it by their nightstand and read passages each night, and I think it'll help you through your life.

Megyn Kelly
Well, in part, it's a diagnosis of what's going on with us right now. And in part, to me, it picks up on something you said to me shortly before I came on your show, after my own cancellation at NBC.

You said, you seem to me, privately, you said, you seem to me kind of like me right now, which is somebody without a political home.

And I felt that way, and I still feel that way. I mean, I've been a registered independent forever, but I know exactly what you're saying. Just the world's lost its mind. And I certainly would never put on somebody's team jersey anymore.

Bill Maher
Right. Without a team.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Bill Maher
Right.

And you know what? I like it that way because I don't want to be a part of a team. I mean, I would say I caucus with the Democrats more. I definitely think the right wing is much more dangerous. They don't believe in democracy anymore, and they threw their lot in with a sociopath named Donald Trump. So, you know.

No, he's not.

Megyn Kelly
No, no. I just, like. I want to talk about your feelings on Trump.

Bill Maher
Yeah, well, there you go.

Megyn Kelly
But this is how. So you and I are very similar. I feel like you're kind of a four and I'm a six on the ideological scale, we have a lot of overlap, but you're definitely still going to vote Democrat, and I'm definitely going to vote Republican. But there's enough commonality to make us shake our heads yes when the other one speaks a lot.

Bill Maher
So you're going to vote for Trump?

Megyn Kelly
I am going to vote for Trump, yeah.

Bill Maher
Yeah. I mean, I can't even understand that. And I understand that Biden is deeply flawed, but he does believe in our way of life. And, I mean, I was the one who was saying from the very beginning, when everyone was laughing at me, that Donald Trump will never give up power. And he didn't. He still hasn't conceded the last election. I don't know what could possibly be more fundamental to you or anyone. Then you have to concede elections. And he hasn't conceded the last one. He's plainly not going to concede this one. He now has all of his sycophants around him parroting his party line, which is when they ask them, will you abide by the election results?

Yes, if it's a free and fair election. Which is another way of saying if we win. You really think this is a place this country should be?

Megyn Kelly
I'm not going to defend the election denialism. I'm not one of those people who's.

Bill Maher
More important, what kind of country do we have?

Megyn Kelly
How about my daughter not going into a locker room and seeing a man's penis?

Bill Maher
That's important, too. And I bring it to.

Megyn Kelly
How about young men on college campuses getting due process when they get accused falsely of rape?

Bill Maher
Well, yeah, I think that's a false equivalency. I think these things are bullshit.

Megyn Kelly
What do you mean?

Bill Maher
I think these things are important.

But you can handle these things through the normal due process of our system.

But if we lose the system itself. Come on.

Megyn Kelly
But we didn't.

Bill Maher
We didn't so far.

Megyn Kelly
He tried it, it failed.

Bill Maher
Right. And now he's had four years to put in place people who will make it work again. I don't know if there'll be a John Raffsonberger in Georgia, a noble Republican who stood up to him. He thought last time that he could count on someone being just a Republican to do his bidding. And what he found out was that there are a lot of decent people who are Republicans, which is something I'm trying to tell the Democrats all the time.

You can hate Trump, you can't hate everybody who likes him, and you certainly can't hate half the country. And Republicans is not a byword for bad people. And a lot of them stood up. I mean, even ones who I don't like very much, Mitt Romney, McConnell, obviously, Liz Cheney, Chris Christie. There were Mike Pence.

These are what I call as good as it gets Republicans. For the people who don't like Republicans. They full throatedly said Trump lost that election.

No two ways about it. McConnell said it wasn't even a particularly close election.

Megyn Kelly
A lot of people said it. A lot of people said it. But look, I agree with you that the majority of the Republican Party doesn't believe that. But I do think there's a difference between it was stolen. You know, the nonsense with dominion voting machines and all that, versus. It wasn't fair.

Bill Maher
And what wasn't fair?

Megyn Kelly
The election that we started. What wasn't fair?

Bill Maher
Okay, well, the election.

Megyn Kelly
The suppression of the Hunter bride and laughter, just, just for one.

Bill Maher
Oh, for fuck's sake. Really? Oh, then, then you're, then we're not as alike as you think.

That's a stupid non story. I mean, yes, there are polls that.

Megyn Kelly
Show some ten to 12% of the electorate says they would have changed their mind had they seen it, had they known about it.

Bill Maher
It wasn't right to suppress it. But nobody gives a fuck about Hunter Biden's dick.

Megyn Kelly
Nobody. You're talking about yourself. I'm telling you, there are data to show that people did care. They said they were voting.

Bill Maher
Nobody who was going to vote for Trump anyway, or Biden anyway.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, it wasn't about Hunter Biden's man parts. It was about the scene scandal of his corruption and his dad's corruption bill. I used to think that Hunter Biden was a hot mess and Joe Biden was embarrassed by him, but had to deal. Now I really think he was doing Joe Biden's bidding. Joe Biden is the bad guy who sent his drug addled son out there to collect money. That's what the laptop shows.

Bill Maher
And that's more important than what I was bringing up about not abiding by election results, not respecting what always made this country great. The peaceful transference of power.

Megyn Kelly
See, I don't disagree with you on that. You're not gonna get me to say it was a great way.

Bill Maher
I don't have to get you to agree or disagree. You're obviously someone who looks at an elephant and a mouse and cannot tell which one is bigger.

Megyn Kelly
I disagree. I think that's projection by you. Because I look at Joe Biden.

Bill Maher
That's how I see you.

Megyn Kelly
Well, let's go after.

Bill Maher
Why are you telling me this? I mean, this is just typical right wing talking points. The evil hunter Biden and the evil Joe Biden. Look, do I like them? No, I don't particularly like them. I think they're very flawed.

Megyn Kelly
Listen, listen.

Bill Maher
It's not nearly uncertain.

Megyn Kelly
You're misstating my argument. You're misstating my argument that Hunter Biden, just now on the laptop, was brought up as evidence of how the election was not fair. He's not a reason necessarily to not vote for Joe Biden. The reason not to vote for Joe Biden is his policies. You're not woke. He's as woke, at least his policies are as they come. The open border bill.

How could anybody vote for somebody who keeps this border open with the number of rapes and the number of murders and the numbers of crimes going on with these immigrants?

Bill Maher
But again, these are the normal sorts of issues we've always had in this country that should be taken care of through the normal process we've had. You're talking about the difference between some this, I'm talking about between this and something fundamental, which is our democracy. The fact that you have to respect who wins an election or else you don't have the kind of country we've always had before. How about, I mean, I feel like we keep going around the rosemary Bush about this and we're not going to make any progress, so let's stop talking about it. But, you know, I just, I mean.

Megyn Kelly
You keep saying sort of I'm nuts because I don't see the difference between the elephant and the mouse. And I'm telling you, I identify them differently than you do. Hillary Clinton, of course, is the original election denier. I'm sure you voted for her in 16.

Bill Maher
Well, she's not an election denier.

Megyn Kelly
She absolutely was the OG election denier.

Bill Maher
First of all, she came out before the sun had risen to concede the.

Megyn Kelly
Election to Trump and then spent the next four years saying he was illegitimate. He was an illegitimate president.

Bill Maher
She, okay, well, first of all, saying she didn't say he was an illegitimate. She did tell me exactly what she said.

Megyn Kelly
She said those exact words repeatedly.

Bill Maher
Okay. I mean, she conceded the election.

Whether you're interpreting her disappointment at losing it as the same thing, thing as Trump not conceding it, I don't know that's where you're getting it from. But again, it's a tremendous false equivalency.

You could ask Hillary Clinton right now who won that election. She will tell you Donald Trump won the election.

Megyn Kelly
Now she knows she has to because of what Trump has done.

Bill Maher
She came out that night, she, in her purple suit, and conceded the election.

Megyn Kelly
Correct.

And then spent the next four years trying to convince us it was not legitimate. Just saying, look, it's not the same as Trump. What Trump did was far more severe. I'm not going to deny that. But don't try to tell me that Hillary Clinton wasn't an election denier. And Jamie Raskin and a whole host of Democrats who are now in prominent positions on Capitol Hill doesn't make it great what Trump did, but they don't have clean hands either. But you, you bypass the immigration question. I mean, like that.

Bill Maher
I'm not bypassing it. I think it's a disaster. I think, I think.

Megyn Kelly
How would you put this guy back in there for four more years to leave the doors open and like, it.

Bill Maher
Was so much better under Trump.

Megyn Kelly
Yes, it was better under Trump. Are you kidding me?

Bill Maher
It was somewhat better. Oh, Bill, it was somewhat better.

Megyn Kelly
Go look up the immigration rates. Illegal immigration rate.

Bill Maher
I agree.

Megyn Kelly
For 2020, for 19 to 20.

Bill Maher
I'm not defending Biden on immigration. I don't understand why it's so difficult in this country to stop people coming through the border. I don't. And I watched that 60 minutes piece they did on it a couple of months ago, and they had films of people coming through this hole and the border patrol just watching them and basically waving.

I don't understand why. I don't understand why this country can't accomplish something like that. It doesn't seem like it's impossible. But so many things in this, what.

Megyn Kelly
That'S what's so aggravating. We can accomplish it. We can stop what's happening at the southern border. We just won't under Joe Biden. And he keeps pretending like he has no agency on it. But he does have agency. There are a lot of executive orders he could do just like Trump did. He won't. And you know why? It's because of the people who use the word Latinks who are trying to lecture him that it's not humane to enforce our borders.

Bill Maher
Yeah, I would agree with that. The left wing, because they're so afraid always of being called racist, they let that color every issue and very often wind up with terrible policies that wind up not helping people abuse.

Megyn Kelly
Don't you think that's what's happening to him on the trans issue, too, which is my big issue. Yeah, I think we're off the front.

Bill Maher
Well, I think what Joe Biden is, is a guy who does not want to fight with the left wing of his party. He sees that as, I don't think he understands a lot of what's going on in the left wing. I mean, I don't doubt if he heard the word trans before he was president, but that's what he has chosen to do. He does not want to fight with AOC. He thinks that's where the energy in the party is. And he's not completely wrong. So he just kind of goes along with that kind of stuff.

Yeah, that's one thing that's not great about him. But again, in this country, maybe gender is not binary but politics is you only get two choices.

Megyn Kelly
That's right.

Bill Maher
You get Donald Trump, a criminal election denier who is going to transform this country into an authoritarian place like we've never seen before, or you get Joe Biden, with all his flaws, also a criminal.

Okay, what is his crime?

Megyn Kelly
Again, special counsel Robert Hurst said he committed felonies, but he wouldn't indict him because he was a well meaning elderly man with a poor memory. He couldn't get a conviction in front of a jury.

Bill Maher
And what was that crime?

Megyn Kelly
That was the classified documents all over his basement, his garage, everywhere.

Bill Maher
Well, okay, again, a false equivalency. They both had classified documents. Here's the difference.

Immediately, Biden, he shouldn't have had them immediately. He said, oh, sorry, my bad, and gave them back.

Megyn Kelly
That's why he didn't get charged with obstruction. But Trump has two classified documents pieces to his case. One is you had them, and the second is you obstructed justice when we demanded them back. So, okay, against Biden, you don't get charged with obstruction. But number one, where's the. Where's the classified documents charged against him? He's also a felon.

Bill Maher
You got your story. You know, look, if you see it that way, that's. That's. That's what I have to deal with. Just.

Megyn Kelly
You're asking me why I see it differently than you do. The contest between two of them, and.

Bill Maher
I'm telling you it's not convincing.

Megyn Kelly
Fair enough.

Bill Maher
I mean, they both should not have had classified documents. One by the toilet, one by his corvette.

Okay, one, one, multiple, many.

One person, one of them, okay, one Trump, one Biden. They both did that. The difference is goofus and gallant. Goofus said, anything I touch is mine forever. Go fish. And the other one said, oh, yeah, my bad, and I'll immediately return them.

Megyn Kelly
That's very funny. You're taking me back to my childhood with that reference. Why can't the difference be one actually had the ability to declassify documents and keep them? Because he'd been the president and one didn't? Because he should have been looking at documents only in a skiff while a sitting us senator? And clearly, he stole classified documents that he wasn't entitled to and never had the ability to declassify them.

Bill Maher
Yeah, maybe you know more about that than I do. I don't remember that part of it. And I. I always don't trust anything I hear until I vet it from the other side, because everybody sort of has their one sided view of it and narrative. Is more important than truth. I know this is the right wing narrative. I thought.

Megyn Kelly
I'm not like that, Bill. I care about facts. I practice law for ten years. I want to get the cases right more than I want to get clicks. And I have a lot of lefties who watch me, so I'm not like that. All I can tell you is those are the facts. And Joe Biden also has behaved in a grossly, grossly extra constitutional manner. Not only the nonsense of trying to skirt the Supreme Court on the eviction moratoriums and the student loan, quote, debt forgiveness, which he's bragging about skirting them on, but the four indictments, which obviously the White House was behind and promoted and wanted. Four indictments of a former sitting president, which we've made it almost 250 years without doing. If that's not extralegal and weirdly non normie, I don't know what is.

Bill Maher
What are the four indictments we're talking about now?

Megyn Kelly
The two federal indictments against Trump and the one in New York and the one in Georgia.

Bill Maher
Oh, you're talking about the Trump indictments?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. I'm saying this administration, 100%, was behind at least those two federal ones. And there's evidence they were behind the other two, or at least in coordination.

Bill Maher
Though they deny it, they were behind them. It wasn't Trump committing those crimes.

Megyn Kelly
Do you really think, you don't think that Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton could have been indicted for what they did when he left office with all the furniture?

Bill Maher
I don't remember.

Megyn Kelly
If somebody kicked the tires of the Clinton initiative, the foundation, you don't think they could find something?

Bill Maher
I think they did kick those tires a lot. I'm not sure what they found, but I don't think it was much.

I don't remember Bill Clinton ever calling.

Megyn Kelly
So Larry Clinton could have been indicted. Post her.

Bill Maher
As I was saying, I don't remember Bill Clinton calling up as secretary of state and saying, I need you to fine me 11,000 votes. You don't find that to be a bit of a smoking gun?

Megyn Kelly
I don't. Here's why. Because I've listened to the whole phone call.

Bill Maher
I have, too.

Megyn Kelly
And what he's saying is I'm only behind by some hundred thousand. Whatever the number was, he said, so I want a recount and I want you to start counting. And all I need is this number. So basically, once you get to that number, you can stop counting. Look, I don't want to have to defend Trump on his denialism about the election.

I'm more on your team on that. But I understand why. It's not a smoking gun, as you just put it.

Bill Maher
Okay, well, you know, people see things differently.

Megyn Kelly
They do.

Bill Maher
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So this is why you feel like a man without a party, because your team feels like you do on the Trump stuff. They hate Trump, but they're not with you when it comes to your anti woke ism. So where does that leave you? Who do you go out to dinner with?

Bill Maher
With lots of people. I mean, I feel like more people than ever are on team me, whatever that is, because they're the normies in the middle who don't want to be ideologically captured by either side. That's who I feel like I speak for people who are not afraid to call out their own team. If you have a team or a team that you are more on the side of, when they do stuff that's goofy, and I think they appreciate it a lot. I mean, I notice in my stand up shows, you know, the audience is kind of half and half, and the liberals will laugh at woke nonsense and the conservatives will laugh at Trump jokes.

Most people in this country, I think, understand that there are deep defects on both sides.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Bill Maher
And they just want, they just want the extremists who seem to have the megaphone on either side to go away or stop being so powerful. Everybody is like, why can't we just be common sense and why can't we just be the people in the middle?

But at the end of the day, no one sort of stands up for that because it's just so easier to pander to the people who are a team, because those are the people who wind up scaring the other people. I mean, certainly on the left, that happens. I've said it many times. The problem with wokeness is nobody ever gets canceled for being too woke. That's how you wind up with men can get pregnant, because you can say the most ridiculous thing, and because no one wants to be the one who's called out on Twitter, they'll be like, oh, sure, men pregnant.

I've always said that. I saw a dude who was glowing today.

It's just so ridiculous. What you can get away with saying just the intimidation factor. And certainly on the right, that happens, too.

Megyn Kelly
So you don't seem like someone who's ever felt that. Have you managed to escape, ever afraid of blowback from your own side?

Bill Maher
Well, I mean, come on, I've been on 31 years. It comes with the territory. Every week when people say to me on Saturday, how'd the show go? Last night, I'd say if I'm not canceled today, it went great.

I mean, they're always looking to take you down, and the knives are always, always out. But I feel like at this point, after 31 years, if they wind up getting me okay, I had a pretty good run.

Megyn Kelly
That's right.

Bill Maher
And also, I think there's just a lot of people who have my back, and they appreciate what I do, and they appreciate me having that bond with my audience that I don't pull a punch and I never will. And it's made me lose some audience. That's true. I say it in the introduction of the book. I say, I have lost some people and I don't miss them. Those are the more woke people who think I'm somehow betrayed them. And I didn't. One reason I wrote this book was by going through all the old editorials over the whole span of the show. I wanted to see have I changed or has my politics changed? And I really think it's not mostly me. I mean, the left was very different. Now, of course, the right got way worse. Also, we won't go back into, they don't believe in democracy. We just had that discussion. But that certainly is way worse, in my view.

But the left, yes, went off the deep end also in their own way. And so what I always tell people who are democrats and liberals is, you don't have to lecture me about Donald Trump. I'm the one who, I think, who was sounding the alarm bells before anybody. But I also get why people vote for him. I absolutely do.

Because the stuff that, for example, you just said, penises in the swimming pool, and the stuff that that is threatening to people that comes from the left is so much more in their everyday life.

It's not vague, like, to most people, oh, what's Trump and democracy? It's a vague thought in Ukraine, that's very far away. Was it impeachable? Who knows? But I know about my kid coming home from school and saying, well, they're telling me. I can't tell you. Yeah, if I change my sex.

Megyn Kelly
Or saying, as we discussed on your show, when I was a guest suggesting to your perfectly normal son that he might be a girl at my school, they kept asking them over and over, raise your hand. Where are you in the scale of girl to boy? Zero through five?

Bill Maher
I did an editorial only, like, three weeks ago, and I used the word entrapment. I mean, it was about comparing what goes on in the schools with entrapment. I don't think anybody had ever put it that way. But entrapment in the law, I'm sure you know this better than I do, means suggesting someone into a crime.

Megyn Kelly
Yep.

Bill Maher
Something they wouldn't have thought of to do anyway. I mean, I used the example of, after 911, there were a number of cases where law enforcement basically entrapped people who were not really going to be terrorists. The one case I mentioned was the Liberty seven. Seven guys in Liberty City, Miami, and poor section of Miami.

They basically went to them and said, wouldn't it be cool if you blew up the Sears Tower in Chicago and taught the man a lesson? And these guys who didn't even have a gun, probably the only guys in the neighborhood who didn't have a gun, said, yeah, that would be pretty.

Megyn Kelly
Do this thing.

Bill Maher
That would be pretty cool. That's entrapment. And I was saying, look, when you constantly talk to little kids about sex and gender and constantly put out the idea that maybe the body you're in is not the correct one, aligning with what's in your mind, that's entrapment. That, to me, is the same thing. You're suggesting them into something they wouldn't have thought of anyway. Because I promise you, when I was a kid, it never crossed my mind. I never thought, huh, maybe I am a girl.

I mean, I thought a lot of, how could I learn how to talk to a girl?

But even at that age, we didn't want to talk to a girl. We had not reached puberty yet.

Megyn Kelly
See, this is like, this is where it's just so frustrating to me, because I looked at that Biden event where he had all the trans people out in front of the White House, and he's like, some trans. It's a guy with fake breasts, showing his naked breasts on camp on the White House lawn. It was like national Trans day of visibility, which is every day in America now, right? And they're on the White House. It's like, would you have some dignity? Could there be some dignity and decorum?

And I realized you could make the dignity argument over on the right, too. Trust me, I get it with Trump.

But that's why I look at Biden. I'm like, how do we get stuck with this, right? Like, why didn't the Democrats replace him? And why did the Republicans re nominate Trump? I think it's, I think I know, I think they thought he was the strongest candidate, the one who could sort of be the strongest leader and take Biden down. But I look at Biden, and I feel like the Democrats really could have made a switcheroo. Give it up. But they could have made a switcheroo.

Bill Maher
I mean, my first show back after the strike ended, which was last September, the first editorial I did was called Ruth Bader Biden.

Megyn Kelly
I remember that.

Bill Maher
I was the one who coined that phrase. I was saying, if he continues on, if he doesn't get out of the race, he's going to be Ruth Bader Biden. He's going to be the person who hung around too long, destroyed his legacy and probably the country with it. But he's got to get out now because too long at the fair, we get it. Ruth Bader Ginsburg was a justice the liberals loved. And I'm sure she did some great things and was a pioneer, but her ego would not let her go away. And I mean, the story goes, Biden, Obama, Obama had her to lunch once, like I think in 2013, and was kind of hinting around, hey, wouldn't it be great if you spent a little more time with the grandkids? What do you think, huh? And she didn't take the hint and thought she'd live forever, which was really crazy because she had been through a lot of really serious medical issues. And then, of course, it happened. And then, of course, Mitch McConnell, who would not even give Merrick Garland a hearing, which was talking about unconstitutional, suddenly, of course, found it in his heart to push through Amy Coney Barrett immediately.

That's what you get for trusting the other side. So I thought he should step down. But apparently that hasn't happened. I would hope the Democrats, some of them would think it's still not too late. You could do it before the convention. I mean, weirder things have happened in american politics, and I don't think anyone would bat an eye that it was out of the ordinary. So what? We don't care. America loves new.

I've always suggested that to candidates. I said that about Chris Christie. He should have ran when he was popular and should have 2012.

Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
And he said, it's just not my time. He was hugely popular.

Bill Maher
The longer you stay around, the worse you're going to do because they have more to get you on Obama. They said the same thing. He's only been a senator a couple of years. And he went, good. You don't know that much about me. Great. America likes new.

Megyn Kelly
There was before Chris Christie, before Bridgegate, before Beachgate, and all those pictures were just devastating to him. And then all the Trump lapdoggery, which really kind of sunk him, and Trump came along.

Bill Maher
I mean, he could have been the.

Megyn Kelly
Guy, remember with Trump, he was like, I love him, I hate him, I love him, I hate him. And then, you know, when you're like. It's like.

And Romney, too. And that was another start of, like, his breakup with the republican party where, you know, he was like, blowing with the wind. But, yeah, no, I agree. It's not too late. If I were a Democrat, I'd be begging for them to sub in somebody else. Even Kamala might be better at this point, although I doubt it. I don't know, though. You know, everybody talks about Michelle Obama as the big hope, and she doesn't.

Bill Maher
Want to do it. No, she's not. Doesn't want to do it. And I don't blame her. And they already served. I mean, so what do you think.

Megyn Kelly
Is going to happen?

Bill Maher
Well, I know one thing I can guarantee will happen is that Trump will say he won, whether he won or lost.

Megyn Kelly
I agree with that.

Bill Maher
Well, that's not a good thing for America, is it?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I agree with.

Bill Maher
I think on January 20, 2025, he'll show up at the White House whether he's invited or not.

And I don't think that's going to be good.

Megyn Kelly
He's going to bomb in if he lost.

Bill Maher
Yes.

Oh, yeah. Bomb is a word I wouldn't even throw around lightly.

Megyn Kelly
Stop it. He's not going to do that.

Bill Maher
Right? Like, there was never an attack on the Capitol.

Megyn Kelly
I hear you, I hear you. But he's never had the adoption.

Bill Maher
Like, they didn't show up at the Capitol and break windows and knock down doors and kill cops and chase and they didn't break windows, knock down cops. They, of course did.

Megyn Kelly
No, they didn't.

Bill Maher
Who did? They died of natural causes that day.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, nobody died that day.

Bill Maher
Cops.

Megyn Kelly
No, not true.

Who?

Bill Maher
Okay, who? Oh, I don't remember the names.

Megyn Kelly
They didn't. There was Brian Sicknick, who died later after the fact. And the coroner's report did not say it was because of what he had inhaled that day. He said it had possibly accelerated the condition that killed him.

Bill Maher
Okay, well, attacked cops.

I thought they were the law enforcement people.

You know, how did we get to this place? I mean, Trump now says he's going to pardon all those January 6 insurrectionists, because who wants to live in a country where the people who try to overthrow the government are seen as the bad guys, huh?

Megyn Kelly
They weren't insurrectionists, Bill.

Bill Maher
They weren't a bunch of numbness. They chased.

That's so stupid. They chased duly elected representatives out of the building and wanted to hang the vice president for certifying the election. That's not an insurrection.

Megyn Kelly
The people who engaged in violent acts or actually made threats along those lines are all being prosecuted appropriately. And I've said repeatedly, I hope they get the book and they've had it.

Bill Maher
So that's not it. That's not it.

Megyn Kelly
About the entrapment that happened of the Muslims after 911. How about the entrapment that happened to some of those J six protesters?

Bill Maher
Wait wait wait wait wait wait. Let's go back to what I'm upset about with the Muslims that we talked.

Megyn Kelly
About after 911 and the feds getting involved saying, don't you want to.

Bill Maher
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
So entrapment.

Bill Maher
Well, they weren't Muslims. They were just guys.

Megyn Kelly
All right. Well, my point is there are, I'm not going to, again, you're making me defend things that I, then you should.

Bill Maher
In part that are horrible. Don't defend them. Why defend them?

Megyn Kelly
Because it's more nuanced than you're suggesting. They were not insurrectionists. There was never any possibility that they were. I've heard you refer to it as a they attempted gonna take over the government. It wasn't going to happen. It was a pro.

Bill Maher
They broke into the capital.

They broke into the cabin.

Megyn Kelly
They opened the doors and let them walk in. Security was waving them in.

Bill Maher
One after the, I could show you the footage of them knocking through the gates.

Megyn Kelly
I could show you the footage of many of them being welcomed in by cops. Bill, see, that's a different way down. The doors will make a distinction between those who truly behave badly and those who thought they were having a good time in statuary hall.

Bill Maher
Yeah. There were some people who just came to meander and wander around. That's true. They just, they just, I've seen the documentary that Alexander Pelosi did on it. It's interesting because a lot of them were just like, oh, yeah, it's an interesting place to go and let's see what happens. There's also footage of people, and there were people who absolutely intended to stop that election.

Absolutely. So I don't know what you would call that. Maybe you don't like that word insurrectionist because it got too, I know it's too anti republican, but that's what it is.

Megyn Kelly
I don't agree with you. I don't think the legal definition of insurrection, they don't meet and that's why it wasn't actually charged. It's, you know, it's a leftist dream to try to make it sound even worse than it was. These leftists who didn't care at all when their people were out in the roads. Killing cops, actually killing. Hurting cops, killing others. BLM protests, killing cops suddenly found their conscience when it happened on j six.

Bill Maher
Killing cops is always wrong. Doing it in the service of trying to overthrow the government of the United States is a little bit different. It didn't happen because we weren't happy. We were lucky. It didn't happen. They tried to make it happen. Attempting to commit a crime is bad. Trump tries to commit crimes all the time like this one. The fact that he doesn't succeed doesn't make it better. It makes it better for the country. Let's see what happens next time. But, you know, we are not exactly like the detective and the serial killer. Oh, we're a lot more alike than you think. We're actually not that alike. I think.

Megyn Kelly
I think you're right. Yeah, I agree. We see a very different reality.

Bill Maher
Yeah.

Megyn Kelly
Which is fine. I mean, that's.

Bill Maher
It is fine.

We have to be able to talk and disagree and still be civil.

Megyn Kelly
I think we're doing a good job.

Bill Maher
Yeah.

We're doing as best as we can.

Megyn Kelly
That's right. Now, let's talk about universities and Hamas in Israel, because I know you've been, I think, very strong on this issue.

Bill Maher
Yes.

We won't have to fight anymore.

Megyn Kelly
So how do you, there's always common ground.

How do you see?

How did we get there, right where we've got people in the scarves with the Hezbollah and the Hamas flags, chanting at Jews that they can't go to.

Bill Maher
Class again, for people who say to me, you make fun of the left more than you used to. Yes, I do. First of all, I'm a comedian, and you're a lot funnier than you used to be, not intentionally, but you are not just pregnant men and identity politics and oversensitivity and victim culture and cancel culture. There's lots of funny stuff. But if I ever needed a reasonable or a rationale for making the case that the left has changed, it would be this. The fact that they're now marching for the terrorists.

Really.

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Bill Maher
The people who see themselves as the most liberal people in the world, the social justice warriors, are standing with some of the most illiberal people in the world. I mean, I'm going to do my next editorial. I'm going to do when I get back to work at my day job is about, look, kids, I know you're looking for a cause, and that's admirable that kids want to have a cause. I got one for you.

Women.

Women around the world, especially in muslim majority countries.

Hamas. I mean, really, you're marching for Hamas? Do you know that there are no equal rights for women as regards almost everything you can imagine, speech, voting, free movement, divorce, property rights, freedom from sexual harassment, freedom from sexual violence. I mean, every possible thing that is a left wing cause they violate. But those are the people we want in charge. Those are the people we want to control from the river to the sea.

Even the people, of course, under the rule of Hamas, hate them.

It's a fascist dictatorship. It's a fascist dictator. It's worse. It's a fascist dictatorship with a hard right religious bent.

It's like the worst of all worlds.

And those are your heroes.

Megyn Kelly
That's right. And they're out there. I mean, it's gone beyond. Of course, they were praising, as you know, on TikTok, the bin Laden letter, and doing the muslim call to prayer five times a day. People who are, you know, probably in catholic mass for most of their formative years, or christian mass, now, they're down on the prayer rug, having absolutely no idea. If you move to one of those countries where that's practiced in the Middle east, they're going to mutilate your genitals, say goodbye to sexual pleasure, because that's what the people you're praying to push. Just ask Ayaan Hirsielli, who I know. You know.

Bill Maher
Yeah, I saw the funniest meme. It was two panels. In the top one it said, you know, queers for Palestine.

Because they have that banner.

Megyn Kelly
No, it's ridiculous.

Bill Maher
On the bottom, it's a guy game thrown out the window. Palestine for queers.

Right out the window.

Megyn Kelly
Well, you. I pulled this clip because this. It turned out to be a very famous clip. And Sam Harris is in it. Ben Affleck is in it. You know the one I'm going to. I'm talking about?

Bill Maher
Oh, yeah. From 2014, I think.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, it went totally viral. And, you know, as usual on a lot of these issues who were ahead of the curve in sort. Sort of identifying. No, there's actually a problem here that we're not acknowledging. I'm gonna play it. Watch it.

Bill Maher
We have been sold this meme of Islamophobia, where every criticism of the doctrine of Islam gets conflated with bigotry toward Muslims as people.

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Bill Maher
And that is intellectually ridiculous, even. It gets ridiculous. So hold on. Are you the person who understands the officially codified doctrine of Islam? You're the interpreter, so you can say, well, this is actually well educated on this topic. I'm asking you. You're saying if I criticize, you're saying that Islamophobia is not a real thing, that if you're critical of something. Well, it's not a real thing when we do it right. Well, no, it really is. I'm not denying that certain people are bigoted against Muslims as people, and that's a problem.

Megyn Kelly
Bigot.

Bill Maher
But the.

It's gross. It's racist. It's not. It's. But it's so nice. It's like saying this shifty jew. You're not listening to what we are saying. We have to be able to criticize bad ideas. Of course, we do know liberal doesn't make sense, but Islam. But why is the motherload of bad ideas? Jesus.

Megyn Kelly
That was amazing television. Sam Harris is totally right.

Bill Maher
Yeah. And it is about ideas. And again, this is one of the big problems with the left today, is they see race in everything. So nothing ever and again, as the guy who was trying to be the common sense person in the middle, just speak for the normies.

Everything, I think, to a lot of people, strikes it the way it strikes me as we start with one thing on this idea over here, and then we're all the way on the other side over here in this issue. Of course, as we were saying over there, there are people who are bigoted, and that's wrong. And of course, it's great that we got more impatient with racism in this country. That is the appropriate response, I think we should have toward racism, being impatient with it. And then it goes all the way to.

And no one who is a person of color can ever do anything wrong. That's how you get. We don't talk about China.

North Korea starves its people.

China puts the Uyghurs in concentration camps. The president of Burundi was on the front page of the New York Times a month ago saying we should march the gays into football stadiums and kill them for just being gay.

Boko Haram captures entire villages of children, but none of these crimes are coming from white people. So.

Crickets, really? Kids, nothing.

No marching for any. Against any of this.

Megyn Kelly
You raised this point in the book, too, and I thought it was a really good one about how when we do our, you know, look back at history, only the white get excoriated for their bad behavior 200 years ago. It's like, wait a minute.

Bill Maher
Yeah, Genghis Khan was pretty rough.

You know, talk about colonizers. I think 11% of certain. Was it. Was it the whole earth? Or maybe it's Asia.

Megyn Kelly
I think it's the earth.

Bill Maher
Like a descendant, descendants from Genghis Khan because he colonized a lot of vaginas. I mean, yeah, I mean, look, it was a different era. I also, there's a couple of really funny editorials, essays in that book about time and the idea that the woke have this crazy idea that people who lived 500 years ago really should have known better.

They have this magic moral time machine where they imagine what they would be doing in 1758 and it's always better.

Megyn Kelly
Than, and it wouldn't have been using the term master bedroom.

Bill Maher
No, that's another thing. Yes. And again, that's another point I'm always trying to make is that the difference between old school liberals like me and the woke is, is things like that. People, I think, have this idea that wokeness is an extension of liberalism and it very often is something that goes so far it actually turns around and becomes the opposite.

Megyn Kelly
Yes, I agree with that.

Bill Maher
Yeah.

The thing that you just mentioned about master bedroom or blacklist or these terms, rule of thumb, gyp. I mean, reservation, I guess we're not supposed to say because, you know, insulting to the Indians. What are you supposed to say when you go to a restaurant?

Megyn Kelly
There's something wrong with picnic too. We're not allowed to say picnic anymore.

Bill Maher
Can't remember why we have a, we're supposed to eat here.

It's just so again, wokeness seems a lot about canceling people, catching people at something, renaming stuff. Liberalism was at least about trying to fix things. It was about trying to lift people up, the people who had been forgotten genuinely. And there are many of them and downtrodden. These are the people we wanted to lift up. That's different than just pointing fingers and saying, I'm more pure than you are. And I think I can prove it. You never want to get into a who hates racism the most contest with someone on the woke left. It's like, you know what? I hate it too. Okay? Shouldn't that be enough?

Megyn Kelly
Except I also hate anti white racism, unlike them. That's the problem.

Bill Maher
And things have changed that. They also, there's a essay in there about progressive phobia, which was Steven Pinker's great term that he coined that it is a real problem on the left.

They do not want to acknowledge progress, which is crazy because it is the product they're selling. Because somehow in their mind, if you acknowledge progress then you're not as pure as the other person who says, no, things are still horrible. Well, lots of things are still horrible. And things just objectively are way better. Can we just live in the year we're living in? That's what I'm always saying. Just live in the year we're living.

Megyn Kelly
Did you see that Biden speech at Morehouse college?

Bill Maher
No.

Megyn Kelly
It's a black college. And he went. They gave him an honorary degree. It's where MLK went.

Bill Maher
This is when?

Megyn Kelly
Just this past weekend. So they gave him an honorary degree. And he did gave a speech. And first of all, the fact that they're giving an honorary degree to Joe Biden, who's like, I mean, the list of racist comments that guy has made is as long as Santa scroll. But okay, fine. They got him to speak there. They made him feel good about him. But it was the most pandering, absurd picture of blacks in America and the present day and America's relation to our black population. It was absolutely disgusting. It was like he was trying to stir up racial hatred right there. Live to the point where a couple of the black students turned their backs on him, which was pretty extraordinary.

And he does it all the time. Well, Democrats, that's not unusual.

Bill Maher
Democrats should be asking themselves, why does Trump, each election, do better, not worse, with minorities and immigrants?

Not worse, better, did better in 2020 than 2016 and seems to be doing better this time. That's a question democrats really need to look in the mirror and ask themselves. And with the immigrants, I think I know the answer. I'll save them the trouble.

Immigrants don't like it that the left seems to have this unrelenting negativity toward the country that these immigrants work so hard to get here.

Megyn Kelly
Good point.

Bill Maher
They really worked hard to get here. And when Trump says shithole to shithole, I think a lot of them are going, yeah, you're fucking right it's a shithole where I came from. Why do you think I got on the ocean on a raft or walked a thousand miles? Because I was living in paradise.

There are places that are shitty in this world, and the immigrants know it. And, you know, it's not corny or conservative to say that.

You should acknowledge that you are lucky if you're living in this country at this moment in history.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, well, it was a different message at Morehouse. Here it is. Watch.

C
You started college just as George Floyd was murdered and there was a reckoning on race.

It's natural to wonder.

Democracy you hear about actually works for you.

What is democracy?

If black men are being killed on the streets, what is democracy?

You have to be ten times better than anyone else to get a fair shot.

Most of all, what does it mean, as you've heard before, to be a black man who loves his country, even if it doesn't love him back in equal measure.

Well, that's my commitment to you to show you democracy. Democracy. Democracy is still the way.

If black men are being killed in the street, we bear witness.

For me, that means to call out the poison of what white supremacy drew out, systemic racism.

I stood up for George with George Floyd's family to help create a country. We don't need to have that talk with your son or grandson as they get pulled over.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, Joy. That's his vision of life as a black man in America.

Bill Maher
Yeah, it's anachronistic, right?

Megyn Kelly
See the one guy popping out from the back? It was almost like he was like, what'd you just say?

Bill Maher
And it's not that there isn't still racism in this country, of course. And racists just. There will, just as there will always be, be criminals, there will always be racists. And we should always be mindful of that and do what we can to call it out. But it's a very different country than it was even ten years ago.

And to be telling black students that you have to be ten times better to get ahead, that's anachronistic. That's not the case. I mean, there are cases also. I mean, there's certainly. They've done studies on this where the same person goes in for a job who's black and white, and the white person does get it more often. They prove that. So that still exists.

It's also true that there are places in this country where it's an advantage to be a person of color at this time, or gay or anything other than white and male and straight. I mean, I'm over 60. White, male and straight. I better be good at my job. Yes, because they're always trying to.

Megyn Kelly
You had a good run.

Bill Maher
This is not somebody that they're trying to hire.

Megyn Kelly
It's ridiculous to say that you love the country more than the country loves you back. Like, that's just not true.

Bill Maher
What kind of message does that? Certainly has been true.

Megyn Kelly
Right, but we're not in the 1940s anymore.

Bill Maher
Well, exactly. I'm saying, can we just live in the year we're living in? Because that doesn't really reflect it. And when they do studies of, like, young, like, under 30 polling, black versus white, the black folks are more optimistic. Yeah, it's the white liberals who.

Megyn Kelly
Don't you think this is the wrong message? Yes. Factually wrong. Politically.

How do you sell yourself to a group of young black college graduates? Is it by appealing to grievance, making them feel disempowered and like, the country hates them? Or is it something that would be empowering and uplifting and something great about them and America?

Bill Maher
It's also not, I mean, they know better than anybody the country they're actually living in. I mean, to pretend, and that, as I think he was saying there, the talk which refers to being pulled over in cops, I mean, are there racist cops? Of course there will always be racist. Somebody somewhere. I mean, if you do polling, I think they've done it.

People are not accurate in their assessment of how many people get killed by the cops or shot by the cops.

I think about 1000 people. No, it's either shot or killed. I think it's just shot. I think about 1000 people get shot by the cops a year in this country. Now, in a country of 340 million people, a lot of whom are nuts and a lot of whom have guns, is that a lot? I don't know.

Megyn Kelly
It was, when that whole thing went down in 2019, I think it was, it was 19 or 18, but I think it was 19 right before George Floyd. I think it was 10 million arrests. And of all of those in the country, between twelve and 15 involved the shooting of unarmed black men, not twelve in 1512 to 15, depending on how you interpret unarmed. Some of the people who got shot by the cops had, like, come in, commandeered a car and tried to run down the police, and they'd be counted as unarmed. But that's out of 10 million arrests, twelve to 15 in the year preceding George Floyd. But the way he's talking, right? And by the way, the talk, didn't your parents have the talk with you? Doesn't every, everyone, especially a young man, it's different. Comply.

Bill Maher
Come on. It's different if you're black, and it has been historically very different if you're black. You can't really not contending that that's an equivalent when we were kids.

Megyn Kelly
I think it's absurd to say that not everybody has the talk. We're all afraid when we get pulled over by cops. I am not worried that I'm gonna get shot in the way that I know some black men worry about. But it's absurd to suggest that anybody who resisted arrest, especially a man with a cop who knows the stakes are high when he pulls them over, isn't going to be in danger.

Bill Maher
Okay, but, I mean, if I got the talk, how old were you when you got the talk. I was 14 in 1970.

It's preposterous to contend that in 1970 a white kid needed the talk as much as a black kid in this country. That's ridiculous. Okay, great.

But also, so here's something that he would never say at a place like this or anywhere, but there is a very big problem with young black men being shot and killed, but not by the cops.

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Bill Maher
The number of young black men compared to young white men who were killed, it's something like 20 times, not a lot. But again, they're not being killed by white supremacists. They're being killed by each other there.

Megyn Kelly
And we've completely written it off as a society.

Bill Maher
Well, to me, that's the most racist thing of all, is that, and I've always said, where are the leaders of the community to talk about this? I mean, I feel like there's so many people in the black community who are looked up to for good reason. They're exemplars. And I mean, a lot of the most famous celebrities and most admired or african american, I mean, if they made a concerted effort to try to implore the end of this kind of behavior, would it have no effect at all? Because a lot of these shootings, I mean, some of it is the drug war, if we would. My thing about racism is always, could we just be practical? I mean, John McWhorter writes about it better than anybody.

Schools, families and the drug war. War.

I mean, that's it. So much of this is performative that we see on the left. That's the stuff that I don't.

Megyn Kelly
McWhorter. Glenn Lowry. Yes, of course. Thomas Sowell, none of whom has a statue of them. They're not heralded, they're not held examples.

Bill Maher
And they're not invited on MSNBC.

Megyn Kelly
Never.

Bill Maher
And they should be because they're kicked.

Megyn Kelly
Off or Coleman Hughes.

Bill Maher
Coleman Hughes. Another one. Yes, exactly. And again, if you just ended the drug war, some of the shooting is that, and some of it is just about, about really just nonsensical feuds and beefs and you insulted me on social media. And then obviously there's too many guns floating around.

But it just seems like so tragic and unnecessary that this amount of killing is going on and that we just seem to, again, ignore it and not talk about it and pretend it's all the cops.

Megyn Kelly
I pretend we're doing something. Cause we're over here saying, you know, this is the way we want you to refer. Capitalize the word be. Now I feel better.

Bill Maher
I find that racist.

Megyn Kelly
I want to ask you a couple things. First of all, I want to ask you about Stormy Daniels. You had her on your show. Yes, a few years ago when she was first out with her story.

And then to your credit, you pointed out on your show that her testimony in this trial changed dramatically from then to now. Do you think she's trying to paint herself as a fake me too victim? Now?

Bill Maher
That's what it looked like. I don't know if I would use the word dramatically, but it did shift. I mean, she definitely, she said in the trial, she said it again, kind of the same thing that she said on the show, but she also talked about the incident in ways that she certainly hadn't back when I was interviewing her, that we used all the buzzwords of the hash metoo movement of power imbalance. And I was afraid to leave and he blocked the door and I was afraid. And then the thing that was so preposterous, I thought was, you know, I blacked out.

Megyn Kelly
She lost fingers in her feeling in her fingers and toes, Bill.

Bill Maher
Well, I mean, as I said at the time, this is someone who's not unused to having sex with strange people. Not strange that they're people, just that they're stranger to you because she's a porn star. So when you're a porn star, it's like, hi, meet Bob. He's gonna fuck you in two minutes. Okay, great. Are we ready for wood? Come on, people, we're losing the light.

So the idea that she would black out because this was such a traumatic experience was, to me, straining credulity. But I didn't think they should have gone ahead with this trial to begin. I mean, first of all, it should have been an election interference trial brought by Merrick Garland. I tore him a new asshole a couple of weeks ago because all these trials probably not going to come to anything. And they had four years to do it, but it wound up being a trial about falsifying business records in state court. And, you know, I don't know. Do you think he's going to win it?

Megyn Kelly
I don't think Trump is going to win it because.

Bill Maher
Really?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, because I think it was lost on jury selection. It's New York. It went 87% for Joe Biden.

Bill Maher
All twelve jurors are going to. I mean, it's because if I had.

Megyn Kelly
To put my twelve, all twelve jurors, here's my thought. They should not vote to convict because he definitely, he's put on a great case. The defense has put on a great case. Just, they really haven't put on much of a case at all. But they've done enough to poke holes in Michael Cohen's testimony to win this case. But I think they lost it on jury selection in the same way OJ was lost on jury selection.

Bill Maher
Let me ask you this, counselor.

Michael Cohen did serve prison time for doing this.

Megyn Kelly
No, not for doing this. That's the problem. He served prison time for lying about taxes and his taxi medallion scheme. And then at the last minute, they added on this election interference or campaign finance violation. And he said, sure, I did that, too.

But that was never the bulk of the charges. That was about to send him into prison with the raids on his house and all that. That was an add on at the end.

Bill Maher
That was not my interpretation of it. I thought he went to jail because he was the fixer in this case.

Megyn Kelly
They're trying to lead you to believe that, Bill, you trust Andy McCarthy of National Review, for example, a very straight shooter. He hates Trump like you do.

He's been pointing this out so many other legal.

Bill Maher
I'll re look at it.

Megyn Kelly
But in your defense, that's sort of how they're setting it up in this trial. And that is what the jury has heard, too, what you just said. So that's one of the reasons why I believe they probably will conclude he did it. They're gonna say, cohen. He pleaded guilty to. To it. Weisselberg. He's in jail. Why is he in jail? And they've been led, like with a trail of breadcrumbs, I think, to probably the wrong conclusion. But I do think it'll be ridiculous.

Bill Maher
And how will it affect the election, if at all? I don't think it will either.

Megyn Kelly
Don't you think it's all been baked in at this point?

Bill Maher
I do, absolutely. I mean, look, to most people, it's just a sex case. I did an editorial about this. It's in the book. Also about, I saw this movie when it was called Kill Bill, when they did it with Bill Clinton. And people just do not like it when they go after precedents for their sex lives. And the idea that Trump would be fucking a porn star at a golf charity event while his wife was home nursing their newborn is something we just assumed he would be doing, because, again, you're the party of family values. So it is, as you say, baked into the cake.

The only thing surprising was that before.

Megyn Kelly
The record, Trump denies it.

Bill Maher
But you don't really believe this.

Megyn Kelly
Here's my honest reaction.

Bill Maher
You can't tell me you think he didn't fuck stormy.

Megyn Kelly
Daniel, let me tell you what I.

Bill Maher
What I think that's gonna really, leading.

Megyn Kelly
Up to the trial, I said many times, he did it. Let's face it. He denies it. For the record and the legal purposes, he denies it. But when I heard her do her, you know, dramatic reenactment of it all, now it's me too. No fin, no feeling in the fingers. I blacked out. I felt threatened because he was sitting on the bed. When I came out of the bathroom and I couldn't get to the door, he was sitting on the bed. That's called leaving the hotel room. We've all done that. Like, you just walk around the bed and you walk out the door. No, I mean, I started to doubt her story. I started to wonder whether this whole thing was some sort of a shakedown. If I had to put money on it, I'd say they had sex. But I don't believe anything past that.

Bill Maher
Well, that's silly. I mean, there's no good people.

Megyn Kelly
It's so pejorative. What do you mean?

I've been watching this trial very carefully, and I've been dismissive of your lack of knowledge. Is my opinion based on what I saw in ten years of cross examining people, she's a liar.

Bill Maher
That doesn't mean he didn't fuck her. Okay, yes, both things are true. I mean, it's like saying, you know, OJ Simpson, were the corrupt police corrupt or did he kill his wife? Both.

Both.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Bill Maher
I used to say, you know, the cops are so inept they could not frame a guilty man.

The cops did a bad job and he killed his wife.

Megyn Kelly
All right, so what do you.

Bill Maher
And stormy Daniels is a horrible witness, and so was Michael Cohen. There's no good people in this trial. And he fucked her at that golf tournament. That's just who he was. I mean, come on.

Megyn Kelly
Last but not least, Cohen and you have had some past interactions, right? Did he threaten you? I think you and Trump had your.

Bill Maher
No, no. He. What? He. When. When I.

When Trump sued me, um, for calling.

This is just, this is back in the birther game. Maureen Dowd wrote about it yesterday in the Times. Um, in 2013, Trump sued me, uh, because.

What was it he offered?

Megyn Kelly
Because he offered 5 million for Obama's birth certificate.

Bill Maher
No, no.

Megyn Kelly
And then you offered 5 million to see proof that he wasn't the child of an orangutan.

Bill Maher
Yes, but actually what he offered, that was one detail I think they got wrong. The $5 million he had offered was for Obama to produce his college records because, you know, a black guy in college, that's kind of fishy, huh?

Megyn Kelly
Oh, boy.

Bill Maher
So, yes, Donald Trump. Trump offered $5 million. So I thought I would offer him $5 million if he could prove when we showed the picture, he does look exactly like that orangutan. The color of the hair was exactly the same if you saw the picture, you know what I'm talking about. And so I offered him $5 million. And then they came to court and produced the birth certificate to prove that he was actually not the son of an orangutan. Not that that's even possible. I mean, we are of different species. The definition of a species is you can't have sex with the feminine. Well, sex, but no, no, I mean, that's why you can't reproduce. You can't reproduce. But, but they don't, they're not interested in, I mean, jaguars and tigers, they look kind of alike, but they don't fuck each other. But he did fuck stormy Daniels.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, God.

All right, Bill Maher, I gotta let you go. Any last thoughts on what the solutions are to that? Do we, how do we come back together? Are we gonna, we're gonna land the plane. The country stays together. We find a way past the harsh partisan bullshit.

Bill Maher
I mean, I don't know. I mean, like I said, say I think the rubber hits the road next January because if he wins, he wins. He's never going to give up power. You can't really believe that.

Megyn Kelly
I definitely believe he will give up.

Bill Maher
Power, but he didn't last time.

You think in 2028 he's going to say, well, two terms.

That's what the constitution says. I'm gone? Of course not. He's going to stay on as long as he can. He'll make up some excuse. He doesn't care. He's never read the constitution. He doesn't care what's in it. It's only about power and who wins. And he will never leave. He said many times, I think we deserve a third term because we were cheated out of the one that he's not serving right now. So he will never give up power. So there's the end of America as we know it.

And if Biden wins again, this country will fall apart because his rabble won't accept it. And he won't accept it. I mean, there's no solution except cholesterol.

Megyn Kelly
And watching real time and buying this book.

Bill Maher
It's called, it's actually very, the funniest book ever, I think, and lots of people have said the same thing. So I know it sounds like, you know, because we're tussling that it's all serious, but it's actually very funny. It is very funny, and I hope people enjoy it. And look, I appreciate you going toe to toe because I think that's what people have to do. And it sometimes does get to a point where you get exasperated with each other. But, you know, as I say at the end, America is a family. And the definition of a family is understanding that you're with people who you may not like, but it doesn't come to violence.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. Well, I have to say, bill, you've always been very gracious to me. You've had me on your show a couple times.

Bill Maher
I'm a fan. I mean, you're super smart.

What we all have to get over is talking with someone who you can be like, oh, I'm so in agreeance. On agreeance. Agreement on this and this and this and this and on this one. I think they're insane. Yeah, but we got four out of five.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. Honestly, it's like why there shouldn't be a litmus test. Like, I love him, except he hates Trump, so I have to hate him. It's like. So you disagree with him on that? Okay, that's fine. That's how the world goes forward.

Bill Maher
But I would hope when Trump doesn't relinquish power and this country, I'm gonna play this clip, and when this country does not resemble the one that we've grown up in, I would hope that you would be able to acknowledge that. And if he, and if he does, does relinquish power or doesn't try to.

Megyn Kelly
Then I'm going to play this clip, too.

Bill Maher
Then I will absolutely, on my show, say I was wrong and she was right.

Megyn Kelly
Either way, I'll have you back. You can take a victory lap or you have me back and I'll take a victory lap. Either way, we'll make it happen.

Bill Maher
Thank you.

Megyn Kelly
Good luck with the book and everything.

Bill Maher
I appreciate it.

Megyn Kelly
All the best belt. Don't forget, it's called what this comedian says.

Bill Maher
Good Father's Day present.

Megyn Kelly
Yes, you have plenty of time.

Bill Maher
Father's Day coming up, available now.

Megyn Kelly
See you tomorrow.

Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No bs, no agenda, and no fear.

Hillary Was the OG Election Denier!" | Bill Maher x Megyn Kelly - The FULL Interview

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1: Opening Discussion

2: Political Homelessness

3: Democracy and Election Integrity

4: Social and Identity Politics

5: Closing Thoughts

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