George Clooney Wants Biden Out, Nancy Pelosi Wavers, and Elites are Panicked, with Glenn Greenwald

Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM channel 111 every weekday at noon east.

Oh, my lord. Buckle up. Hi, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show. We are starting today with a five alarm fire back on in the Democratic Party just as the flames were starting to dim and Nancy Pelosi throws gas on the embers.

Two days ago, President Joe Biden insisted he's not going anywhere and that he is, quote, firmly committed to staying in this race, to running this race to the end and to beating Donald Trump.

But then Cook political report, which has been called the Bible of the political community, came out with a truly dire story on the actual state of this race for Democrats. They look at all the polling so far. They look at prior elections, how they were forecast, how they landed, and they have an absolutely terrible prognosis for the Dems, which we'll get into in a minute. They made major changes to their electoral college rankings and ratings for each candidate, moving three toss up states now to lean Republican, including Nevada. All right, Arizona, Georgia. The other two, Arizona and Georgia, used to be reliably red. They haven't been.

So the fact that they were toss ups was not great. But now they're back to lean Republican. And Nevada. Nevada now, which had been Harry Reid's state, he had gotten those unionized workers out election and election again. And then the apparatus he built did the same for Democrats to follow, is now lean Republican. And I have to say, I think that might be understanding Nevada. Trump's doing great. Nevada Biden won those states by narrow margins. In 2020, Cook moved Minnesota and New Hampshire from likely Dem to just lean Dem.

Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin remain a toss up, with Cook concluding that Pennsylvania, which is a must win for President Biden, is now the most vulnerable toward a flip in Donald Trump's favor. Pennsylvania, I don't think there's another state that President Biden has spent more time in either, at least certainly not recently.

These are all changes cook political says happen because of that debate debacle they walk you through. It's a fascinating analysis. We're going to go in depth.

Then on the heels of that, this morning, Nancy Pelosi goes on the president's favorite tv show, Morning Joe, to deliver this. And I want you to listen. Listen. When the reporter asks her direct questions, see if she says yes. Okay? They're very simple questions. He's asking her. Very simple. See if she just answers them with a yes or a no and listen to what she says. If she doesn't say yes or no.

Reporter
Let me ask you about the current moment. Does he have your support to be the head of the democratic ticket as.

Nancy Pelosi
Long as the president hasits up to the president to decide if he is going to run. Were all encouraging him to make that decision because time is running short.

I think overwhelming support of the caucusits not for me to say im not the head of the caucus anymore, but hes beloved, he is respected, and people want him to make that decision. Help me.

Megyn Kelly
He has said he has made the decision. He has said firmly this week he is going to run.

Reporter
Do you want him to run?

Nancy Pelosi
I want him to do whatever he decides to do. And that's the way it is. Whatever he decides, we go with. Let him deal with this NATO conference. He is the host of it. And that means not just hosting, it means orchestrating the discussion and setting the agenda. And he's doing so magnificently. And I've said to everyone, let's just hold off whatever you're thinking, either tell somebody privately, but you don't have to put that out on the table until we see how we go this week. But I'm very proud of the president.

Megyn Kelly
Wow. It's up to the president to decide if he's going to run.

Time is running short again. Just two days ago, President Biden sent a letter to Nancy Pelosi and all of her fellow democratic colleagues saying he is firmly committed to staying in this race to the end. He said explicitly the same to George Stephanopoulos. He said the same to the democratic governors with whom he met last week. Let's see.

It's up to the president to decide. And when the anchor says he did decide, he says he's made the decision. He's firmly in it. He's going to run. Do you want him to?

Not a yes in either instance. Does he have your support? She doesn't say yes. Do you want him to run? She doesn't say yes. I want him to do whatever he decides to do.

That, my friends, from a very smart and savvy political negotiator, no one can say she isn't a, is extremely telling. This is important, and it's probably the beginning of the end. Joining me now is Glenn Greenwald. He's host of Rumble's system update and a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist.

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glenn, welcome back to the show. And no sooner does she do that than, I mean, a man whose name has been dropped repeatedly as a possible democratic presidential candidate himself drops a barn burner in the New York Times. And that man is George Clooney, who explicitly says get out. It starts with I love Joe Biden. This is the headline.

But we need a new nominee. And I'll read you some of the specific passages in a second. Let's start with Pelosi. What do you make of it?

Glenn Greenwald
I think there's this fascinating dynamic, which is that Democrats, and as you say, Nancy Pelosi is very savvy. She's 84 years old, but unlike Biden, she actually is still quite perceptive and very cunning. She sees what everybody sees, which is that basically Joe Biden has, I don't want to say no chance because you never know, but very little chance to win against Donald Trump. And that not only that, it doesn't appear that he will just lose, but that he will lose in such a way and turn off so many voters that it will jeopardize the thing, really. Nancy Pelosi cares about most, which is even the majority in the House and most definitely the majority in the Senate. And so they don't care if Joe Biden is capable of serving as president. If he were ahead and even more senile than he is, they would be fully behind him. What they're concerned about is they all believe that he can't win in November and that he will take down all Democrats with him. That's on one side. On the other side, though, is that you have a politician, and Joe Biden is nothing but a politician. He's done nothing in his whole life but be a politician in Washington, elected to the Senate at the age of 29 in the early 1970s, who has spent his entire life chasing the presidency. All he ever wanted was to be president.

And now that he has this power in his hands and this title in his hands, and now that all the people who are around him and who control him basically have that power in their hands, too. The idea that Joe Biden and the people who control him are just going to voluntarily relinquish this power simply because of some appeal to the common good is contrary to everything we know about Joe Biden. He's a narcissistic, power hungry president. And I think that that's the dilemma that Democrats have, is they're trying to gently push him to do what they think he should do, but he's the one who has to give up the power. And the reason why Nancy Pelosi is 84 years old and still on the hill, the reason why Dianne Feinstein stayed there until she was 91, propped up in a wheelchair, barely able to speak, is because these people cling to power until the very moment that they can't do it any longer.

Megyn Kelly
But for her, I mean, you, you listen to her, and you're right. We've said all along it's not an age thing with Biden. It's, it's an ability thing. It's a cognition thing. Look at Alan Dershowitz. I mean, I love Allen, and I listen to his podcast all the time. He's as sharp as they come, and he's 85 years old. He could be president.

Joe Biden cannot. It's an individual thing. That's just the truth of it.

So if, just in case people thought maybe she misspoke, maybe that wasn't calculated, she wanted to take it back. No. Her spokesperson just released a statement following the morning Joe appearance. It reads as follows, speaker Pelosi fully supports whatever President Biden decides to do. We must turn our attention to why this race is so important. Donald Trump would be a disaster for our country and our democracy. That's no better. That's, that's, that's equally bad. She's not endorsing a President Biden run. She's ignoring the fact that he is telling everyone he can. He has decided he's staying in the race and she's telling other Democrats, just wait until the end of this week. Which is exactly what Joe Manchin said earlier a couple days ago. Just wait until the end of this week. We started the show yesterday asking, what is the magic about Saturday and Sunday, and we speculated openly. It's polls. They're waiting for more data on just how badly the debate hurt, not just Biden, they know it hurt him, but them, the House members and the Senate Democrats. And so far what we're getting, Glenn, is it hurt them badly. It hurt all of them very badly. And that, I'll put it in the words of Michael Bennett, who's a senator from Colorado, a Democrat who was on CNN last night, and listen to how he put it. He was saying Biden is a trouble. Listen, my colleague Dana Bash reported that you, Senator John Tester and Senator Sherrod Brown all said during that lunch that you don't think President Biden can win in 2024.

Is that true?

Michael Bennett
Well, it's true that I said that and I did say that behind closed doors and you guys and others asked whether I had said it, and that is what I said. So I figured I should come here and say it publicly.

Megyn Kelly
Why do you think he can't win in November?

Michael Bennett
I just think this race is on a trajectory that is very worrisome if you care about the future of this country. Joe Biden was nine points up at this time. The last time he was running. Hillary Clinton was five points up. This is the first time in more than 20 years that a republican president has been up in this part of the campaign. Donald Trump is on track, I think, to win this election and maybe win it by a landslide and take with him the Senate and the House. And we have four months to figure out how we're going to save the country from Donald Trump and take with.

Megyn Kelly
Him the Senate and the House. And that, Glenn, just one other soundbite dovetails perfectly with what we're seeing in the reporting from pollsters, from people who watch polls for a living, including the senior data reporter at CNN whose name is Harry Entin with this report. Watch.

Harry Entin
The fact of the matter is, you look at the national polling, the generic congressional ballot choice for us House. Look at this CNN poll plus two, Republican. Wall Street Journal poll plus three, Republican. Monmouth University poll plus three, Republican. Yeah, Joe Biden may be in slightly worse shape in these particular polls, but the fact is when Biden's down four or five, six points, you can only run so far ahead of Joe Biden. At this particular point, at least in the race for the House, it does seem like Republicans are ahead because Donald Trump is so far ahead. What's the Senate landscape? I mean, take a look here. GOP needs just a gain of warm for control if Trump wins. And their path is extremely clear because their best chance for a pickup opportunity is in West Virginia. That's a very likely GOP win with Joe Manchin retiring, if Donald Trump wins this election, the race for the Senate, for all intents and purposes, in my mind, is over.

Megyn Kelly
So here's the thing, Glenn. They've been saying, let's see how he does at this presser. He's going to have yesterday or tomorrow in connection with NATO. Let's see how he does with the NATO leaders. Let's see how he does with Stephanopoulos. That's all a head fake. They needed to buy time to see the polls, which were delayed thanks to the July 4 holiday. The polls are coming in. And no matter what happens at tomorrow's presser or with NATO, they're going to say he just didn't convince us that he can make the case against Trump, that that's what's going to happen. What do you think?

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I just want to underscore the point that you referred to when you mentioned Alan Dershowitz about the difference between age and cognitive inability.

I actually debated Alan Dershowitz, I don't know, a month ago or so, six weeks ago or so in New York. He's 85 years old. He had spent the entire day at the courthouse covering the Donald Trump trial. And then he came that night to debate me. You know, he wasn't, like, sleeping. He wasn't in bed. And I had debated him ten years earlier when he was 75. And other than the fact that it took him a little bit more time to go up the stairs, there was no difference in terms of Alan Dershowitz today and Alan Dershowitz ten years ago, even though he's much older than Trump, than Biden, he's obviously very cognitively alert as much as he ever was. Trump's not that big, much younger than Biden, but people don't have these concerns about Trump. And I think what's I actually, this is what I really think is going on, Megan, is that the issue is not just that people look at Joe Biden and they will never unsee what they saw in the debate, what they've actually been seeing for many years. Only the media is surprised. Americans have known this for many years. I think they see that the democratic party, their allies in the media, have been lying and concealing and covering up this issue for so long. And I think that's another reason why it's reflecting poorly on the down ballot, democratic candidates as well. It just has a stench of, like a cover up in a way that's very dangerous and deceitful to lie to the public for so many years about the person who has the nuclear codes and what their mental state is.

And I think that is part of it has like a stench of not just concerns about Biden, but a stench of scandal around the democratic party, his allies, and the media as well.

Megyn Kelly
Steve Bannon was on the program the day after the debate, and he said there is a no way they're going to lose the House and the Senate without a fight. There's just no chance. If they think they eject him and they can save the House and the Senate, that they won't eject him. And I realize he controls the delegates and all that, but there are ways of ejecting him. There are ways of having senior party leaders, Barack Obergett, Pelosi and Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. We're talking like Barack and Michelle and Bill and Hillary go and see him. And it could be something as dramatic as we've got a press conference scheduled for 01:00, it's noon right now that we're meeting with you. One of us is going out there. Either you or we are going to those microphones at one and making a statement about the future of this race. You know, it's up to you. But his hand could be forced. Nate Silver, polling God of 538, has been making the case for him to step down for a long time, especially post debate, though, and was saying, he's been mentioning that there's this in good conscience, like clause of the promised delegates, which says they have to vote for Joe Biden unless in good conscience they cannot.

And so they could make an argument that they no longer can. There's been a catastrophic event from the time they pledged to support him. That must now change. Anyway, the point is, the Democrats are not without a hand to play.

And I do believe the wait this week is just to see if they should play it, if they'd somehow gotten lucky and dodged this bullet. And so far, the data suggests, no, they haven't.

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, it's really interesting because the Democratic Party, for all of their rhetoric about how they and they alone believe in the values of democracy, and they are our only safeguard between tyranny and democracy, have repeatedly proven, not just in this election, but prior ones, that they actually run the party in an extremely authoritarian and anti democratic way. In 2016, when Bernie Sanders had a genuine chance to defeat Hillary Clinton, the DNC intervened and cheated to make sure that she won. And that wasn't me saying that that was Donna Brazile and Liz Warren happened and a bunch of emails that they cheated. They subverted the democracy. I mean, they absolutely did. And party insiders say it. It's undisputable that that happened. Bernie probably would have won absent that constant cheating in 2020. Not something is great, but something very similar. And they're now mentioning this as Joe Biden rans and raves against the democratic elites. A lot of these people are going on tv and saying, hey, in 2020, you didn't hate the democratic elites because we were the ones behind the scenes who forced everyone out of the race so that none of the vote got divided and you could easily beat Bernie. We, the democratic leads are the ones who enabled you to win. So they constantly talk about how they manipulate the politics, they manipulate the elections to get the outcomes that they want. Of course, the Democrats, especially if they believe they won't just lose the White House, but the House and the Senate, meaning their own jobs, are going to go to extreme lengths to force Joe Biden out if he chooses to stay in and doesn't leave voluntarily.

They have a lot of weapons, including very anti democratic ones that they've proven before they're more than happy to use to get the outcome they want.

Megyn Kelly
James Carville has been a voice of reason throughout this whole contest. He's one of these. He's, of course, a lifelong Democrat. He's not a woke Democrat. And he's seen what's happened to his party. He's not one of those Democrats who's meandering closer to becoming an independent or Republican. He's a true blue dem. But he's very critical of what his party has been doing. And in particular, he's been critical lately of their decision not to sub out this obviously infirm man here. He was reacting to the Cook political report in Satu.

Glenn Greenwald
Cook moved six states away from democrats.

Donald Trump
I'll watch some of these press conferences.

Glenn Greenwald
It reminds me of a book that made me read in college called ship of fools.

Reporter
A bunch of desperate people sailing into disaster.

Donald Trump
I still think I'll stand by my.

Glenn Greenwald
Thing, that he won't run. But if he does, we're just making.

Donald Trump
An idiotic choice for the future of.

Glenn Greenwald
Our country, and I can't help but believe that.

And I, you know, the proofs in the pudding, they're moving states away from us. We're losing. We're not winning.

Reporter
When we lose, America loses.

Glenn Greenwald
It's that simple.

Megyn Kelly
All right, one more for you, Glenn. Who got Bill Clinton elected? That man right there. James Carville and George Stephanopoulos.

They weren't the only two, but they were two important members of the team. And George Stephanopoulos, a young whippersnapper at the time, who then went on to become a partisan journalist over at ABC, was the one, of course, who conducted this interview with Biden on Friday. Very sympathetic to him, but much more sympathetic to democratic politics in general. There's big goal is to have a Democrat remain in the White House. I don't know that he cares that it's Joe Biden. He wants whoever's going to beat Trump. That's pretty clear. And he was, I don't know if I'm going to say, caught by TMZ on the street. I actually have questions about whether this was orchestrated by Stephanopoulos himself.

But TMZ, let's say, caught up with George Stephanopoulos on the streets of New York yesterday. And here's that exchange.

Donald Trump
You think pride should step down.

Glenn Greenwald
You talk to him more than anybody else have lately, and he could be honest.

You don't think he can serve four more years? All right, that's an answer.

Megyn Kelly
I don't think he can serve four more years. Now he's come out and said, oh, you know, somebody stop me. And I, I shouldn't have given an answer. I should have just kept walking. I don't know, Glenn. It's not like I cover news. I'm on TMZ. I cover all media sites that cover the media. I don't see George Stephanopoulos being followed a lot. I really don't. The paparazzi aren't so interested in him. It's possible because he just did this. Sit down. TMZ caught up with him, but I had to put money on it. I would bet you that Stephanopoulos made that happen because it's his way of saying his opinion without saying his opinion. So you got both of the Clinton guys, the Obama guys have been very vocal, not the kid, not the presidents themselves, but all the guys around them. All those pod save America's guys have been very critical. Biden. So you've got all the staffs of these former presidents who clearly want him out.

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah. First of all, anyone who's even a little bit in the public eye, like who has a public platform, understands that if you say something on the street, of course there's a big chance you're being recorded. Someone's going to hear it. I mean, someone like George Stephanopoulos, you know, who's been on television for decades now, obviously understands that if someone stops him and he says something, there's a chance that it will leak. It's hard to believe that that was some sort of huge surprise for him.

I think that there's this very interesting other dynamic here, Megan, which is when James Carville and George Stephanopoulos and all those Clinton people came into the Democratic Party, in order to win, they felt like they had to radically revamp the Democratic Party. They had to kind of purge the left. You know, they had losses, terrible losses with Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis and, you know, throughout the nineties. And there was a lot of internal debate inside the Democratic Party over the last eight years. There's no debate inside the Democratic Party. These people are completely unified. Even the, like, left wing of the party, the squad that was supposed to be a anti establishment challenge to democratic party leadership, they're as much in line as anybody, whereas it's the republican party that has had these vibrant internal debates about ideology, foreign policy, economic policy, Trump, et cetera. And I think in a lot of ways, they've created this atmosphere where democrats are trained that you do not challenge the leader, you do not question the leader. So to get these delegates who are the hardest core democratic partisans, the people who get elected as delegates, who have been trained to view Joe Biden as the salvation for democracy, to go to that convention and abandoned Joe Biden, even knowing that Biden himself is saying, I want to run. I think this, like, climate that they've cultivated inside the democratic party of unquestioning unity toward the leaders has made a lot of this far more difficult for them.

And then on top of that, I think it's important to realize that you have the Clinton people and the Obama people who have never really been close to Joe Biden. There's always been this tension. Even when Biden was vice president with Obama, he felt disrespected by the Obama people. And so a lot of this is like intraparty factions. So if Joe, if Joe Biden hears George Stephanopoulos or James Carville or certainly like the Obama people say you should get out of the race, I don't think he's going to care. In fact, that's going to for, that's going to fortify his will to stay in even longer because he doesn't really like those people. But Nancy Pelosi is a different story. And I think that's why you arise to begin the show pointing to her remarks, because that's the first time that I would say somebody who has the potential to reach Joe Biden has begun to signal in that very coded but clear way that he should consider stepping down.

Megyn Kelly
And she is savvy, because if you listen to the whole remarks, she goes on about how magnificently he is handling the NATO summit and how, you know, I can't get in front. I don't see it. Right. But it's basically, he's handling everything perfectly and what an amazing president he's been.

Glenn Greenwald
Right.

Megyn Kelly
So she's. She's giving him praise. She's building up the ego, but she's quietly sticking the knife in. I mean, that's what's happening there. She knows she has to say all the things to pacify him, but she's setting him up to exit stage left in the process because she's got a whole bunch of House Democrats to manage, even though, no, she's not the House speaker. And Hakeem Jeffries is the minority leader in the House right now. She's the most powerful Democrat in Congress. That's the truth. And she's the leader who's has more influence in that body than anybody else.

Okay, now we've got George Clooney.

This. This point being made from. Oh, this is Charlie sparing, who wrote a book on Kamala Harris. Few celebrities are closer with Barack Obama than George Clooney. You can bet he ran this statement about Joe Biden by Barack before it went public. And let's talk about what he's done. I actually was at the White House correspondents dinner when Barack Obama was president, when George Clooney showed up. And I mean, the press. Cora was swooning. Glenn Swooning. Clooney showed up. They are tight.

Okay, I got to put on my glasses for this because there's a lot of reading.

This is. This just hit before we came to air?

I assume some ellipses are being used by yours truly. I'm a lifelong democrat. I make no apologies for that. I've led some of the biggest fundraisers in my party's history. Last month, I co hosted the single largest fundraiser supported supporting any democratic candidate ever for President Biden's reelection.

I say all of this only to express how much I believe in this process and how profound I think this moment is. I love Joe Biden. I consider him a friend, and I believe in him, believe in his character, in his morals. In the last four years, he's won many of the battles he's faced. But the one battle he cannot win is the fight against time. None of us can. It's devastating to say it, but the Joe Biden I was with three weeks ago at the fundraiser was not the Joe big Effin deal Biden of 2010. He wasn't even the Joe Biden of 2020. He was the same man we all witnessed at that debate.

Was he tired? Yes. A cold? Maybe. But our party leaders need to stop telling us that 51 million people did not see what we just saw.

We're all so terrified by the prospect of a second Trump term that we've opted to ignore every warning sign. The George Stephanopoulos interview only reinforced what we saw the week before.

As Democrats, we collectively hold our breath and turn down the volume whenever we see the president, who we respect, walk off Air Force one or walk back to a mic to answer an unscripted question. PS George, it's not just Democrats who feel that way. We all feel that way. I mean, just your humanity doesn't want to see the president, United States fall on his face outside of Air Force one. But I'm sure it's particularly scary for Dems.

Is it fair to point these things out? It has to be. This is about age, nothing more. But also nothing that can be reversed. We are not going to win in November with this president.

On top of that, we won't win the House and we're going to lose the Senate.

This isn't only my opinion. This is the opinion of every senator and congressmember and governor that I've spoken with in private, every single one, irrespective of what he or she is saying publicly.

Yet most of our members in Congress are opting to wait and see if the dam breaks. But the dam has broken. We can put our heads in the sand and pray for a miracle in November, or we can speak the truth.

It is disingenuous at best to argue that Democrats have already spoken with their vote and therefore the nomination is settled and done when we just received new and upsetting information.

Top Democrats Schumer, Jeffries, Pelosi, and senators, representatives and other candidates who face losing in November need to ask this president to voluntarily step aside, and then he goes on to say what he thinks should happen. He wants a mini primary because he says the Democrats have an exciting bench and has some proposals in there for the messy but necessary way to enliven the party and wake up voters. What do you make of it?

Glenn Greenwald
First of all, Megan, I just have to begin with expressing disgust and indignation because he referenced, for example, the disoriented, confused, lost Joe Biden at that fundraising event that he co hosted with where Obama was and this was before the debate, but very shortly before the debate. And you might recall, I'm sure you do, that. A lot of people, we're saying, oh, if you look at these videos, Biden seems totally disoriented and lost. And not just the White House, but the entire press corps that has been protecting Biden for years came down and said, people who are saying this are right wing liars. They're disinformation peddlers. They're snipping, manipulative and deceitful portions of video to try and make Joe Biden appear to be something that he isn't, namely a confused old man. And now suddenly, because it's permissible to say it, because democratic party leaders want to say it, George Clooney is going back and saying, look, we've all seen all these things over the last several years that we have actually all seen. It's just that those of us who have been saying it have been accused of being liars and propagandists and part of the right wing disinformation machine by saying exactly what all these democrats are now willing to admit was actually happening all along. And I just can't let it go that this is a huge media scandal, that this is the kind of thing that they were doing. They were denying vehemently and attacking anyone who was pointing out the truth. Only now that will admit that truth months later, because now it's in their interest to do so.

That's the first thing. The second thing is, I do think that when Joe Biden is ranting and raving against the elite, there is a part of this that is kind of genuine in him. Because even though it's a joke, Joe Biden has been part of the elite for his whole life, he does believe, like, the self image that he has is that he's like, scrappy Joey from Scranton, from, like, the working class. And I do think a lot of politicians who come from that way, like Richard Nixon had this, even Donald Trump has this. There's like, a resentment toward the elite, especially if the elite attacks them. So when you're reading, like, about glamorous movie stars like George Clooney and like, major democratic funders telling Biden that he has to get out of the race, I do think there's part of him that feels like I have the people behind me. I'm not going to allow the party elite to override the votes of the people who nominated me. And there is, even though the democratic nomination process was a complete joke, like, they didn't allow any debates, they announced they didn't even sometimes allow voting.

By their process, Joe Biden is the elected nominee. And all polls showed that the vast majority of democratic voters wanted him to be the nominee. So to have George Clooney and Nancy Pelosi and, like, big hedge fund managers, swoop in at the last minute and say their choice should be denied, there is this kind of real dynamic of elites trying to override democratic values that I think Joe Biden genuinely is responding to.

Megyn Kelly
When back to your first point. They knew.

They knew the catastrophic event was that the facts revealed were known. He's admitting it in his op ed. You know, he saw it. He saw the Joe Biden of the debate three weeks ago, and there was no New York Times op ed. There was nothing. And maybe he's talking about speaking with, I mean, he says congressmember, governor, every senator, he doesn't say former president, but I'll bet you anything he had that conversation with Barack Obama. A lot of us speculated about Obama noticeably taking an arm and guiding Joe Biden off the stage at that fundraiser, because Barack Obama, too, is very smart. He's very politically savvy, very politically savvy, and he didn't have to do it. And he knew what that would look like. And it may have been a way of telegraphing how weak Joe Biden was.

And I'm saying, I'm not saying he would have known exactly how the sequence of events would come thereafter, but it does make you wonder what conversations were had behind the scenes. And what did you do, George Clooney, to save your party from this disaster? At the time, you know, and I bet it was long before three weeks ago that Clooney and others knew how bad he was. It wasn't until they could no longer hide it that they started to admit the truth to the rest of us.

Glenn Greenwald
To me, that's the story. You know, the idea that the media is pretending like, oh, my God, we were betrayed. We were misled by the White House into believing that Joe Biden was vigorous and mentally adept. And we only learned for the first time that that wasn't true at the debate sickens me to my core. It is such an, it's not just a lie, but it's like a lie that insults the intelligence of the public. Because, again, the american public has long known this. They've long been saying it. They've all seen it with their own eyes. And I've always said that there may be things that are very complicated or you need a specialized knowledge like economic policy or whatever to understand.

But we all have gone through, most of us at least, the experience of having an elderly loved one in cognitive decline. We all can see it with our own eyes when it's happening. We don't need specialists or media professionals to tell us what to think about it. So everybody in the country knew that this was going on, including the people in the media and the democratic party elite. They just wanted to hide it because they wanted to deceive the public and help get Joe Biden over the finish line. Only after the debate. But nothing in the debate surprised me in the slightest. Like I thought they might, you know, pump them up with a lot of, whatever, adrenaline or I don't know if they're using that, but, you know, they get them ready for, like, 90 minutes. But it didn't surprise me to see Joe Biden like that at all. I've seen Joe Biden like that many times over many years. We all have. But these people, and this is what I'm kind of trying to say, is that for all of their, like, political savvy and all of their, like, influence or whatever, they have no credibility. These people are guilty of a major scandal. They all have collaborated together to conceal from us the fact that the president of the United States, the person with the nuclear codes, with the ability to order war, et cetera, is basically senile, is not all the time, but often. And I think that what got exposed was not Joe Biden's mental state, because Americans already knew that. I think it was the rotted corruption of the Democratic Party elite and their media allies.

That, to me, is the biggest story, and I think a lot of people are reacting to that.

Megyn Kelly
So I'll just tweak what you said a little to give my own opinion on it. I, you know, we also have been covering all of his problems, as exhibited in front of the camera, for years. For years now. You know, we don't cover every small thing as if he slips up on a word here or there. We all do. But, you know, the obvious gaps and the getting lost and the short stares of Air Force one and the sneakers and the falling and the forgetting that alive people are dead and dead people are alive and all that. We covered all of it. But even so, I was shocked by what I saw at that debate. It was a game changer. I had never seen him for that period of time, 90 minutes, so unstable and infirm. And the inability to keep any thought line, you know, consistent and in logical reasoning form was shocking to me. You know, bringing up Lake and Riley in the middle of his, of his abortion answer, Lakin Reilly wasn't, she wasn't pregnant. There wasn't, there was zero tie. We actually have that. We'll play it for you here. It is a terrible thing what you've done.

Glenn Greenwald
The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying we're going to turn civil rights back to the states. Let each state have a different role. Look, there's so many young women who have been, including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral.

The idea that she was murdered by an immigrant coming in, they talk about that. But here's the deal. There's a lot of young women are being raped by their in laws, by their spouses, brothers and sisters.

It's just ridiculous.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, we took a turn to do Lake and Riley, who has nothing to do with abortion and illegals, and we landed on sisters are raping sisters who then need abortions. I mean, I was shocked.

I couldn't believe how really just gone he looked and the facial expression and the paleness, like the color, the mouth hanging open.

I mean, we've all been there. If you have someone you love who gets very elderly and dies, hopefully at a very old age, they do get to the place where they can't keep their jaw closed. But to see that of the sitting president, it was shocking, even to me. You didn't feel that at all.

Glenn Greenwald
I totally get what you're saying, but I think the reason it was shocking was because they protected Biden from being exposed for that long a period of time. We see him at the state of the unit address where he has to read from a teleprompter. And the Democrats were so happy he got through that without, like, drooling or falling on the floor.

But we've seen snippets of it. But the issue is we've never really seen him have to be the rules of the debate that they wanted, no notes, no teleprompters, no ability to talk to aides. He was completely on his own. And it was the first time we've seen it. But one of the things that alarmed me the most was when the special counsel, Robert Herr, decided that he couldn't prosecute Biden. And the reason he gave for not being able to prosecute Biden was that no jury would believe that he's even capable of forming criminal intent. They would just see him as like this old man with memory problems. So they would think that he hid classified documents at his home, not with malice because he's not even capable of malice, but just because he's so forgetful in his old age that he can't remember anything about where anything was. And then they fought desperately and are still fighting to prevent the video of that, of that deposition or interrogation from being released. And you knew it was because Biden would look absolutely. Like he did in the debate. So I get what you're saying. Absolutely. And it's, you know, there was a gravity to this moment where everybody was watching. You figured that they would never let him go on stage if he were anything remotely like in that state. But in the few we've seen many times, Biden looking like that, just in, like, snippets and moments.

And I guess that's what I'm saying, that it didn't, they ignored those moments.

Megyn Kelly
Like you and me, those media ignore. That's the difference. Right? Like those of us who've been reporting on it saw it go into another gear. But if that were sincerely the reaction from the rest of the media, they would have honestly reported on the earlier stumbles and falls. They, you know, they wouldn't have totally ignored and blacked them out and covered for them. That just shows your point. I think the dishonesty, you, you accurately detect that they are dishonest brokers when they pretend.

I saw it my, for the first time, I was shocked to, as opposed to those of us who knew he had serious problems and were only shocked by the degree.

Glenn Greenwald
Megan, that's the thing. Like when George Clooney mentioned that fundraiser, that was one of the events where a lot of people were saying, if you look at Joe Biden, he was clearly lost on that stage. He had to be let off by Obama. And I agree with you about Obama's motives, but it wasn't just that the people in the media ignored those issues. They did address them, but they addressed them by saying, this is part of the right wing disinformation machine. They called at the White House. They called them sheep fakes. And people like Jen Psaki and like all of CNN, MSNBC were on the air every day saying, these people are manipulating the videos to make it seem like Biden is not capable, when, of course, everyone he knows, who knows him knows he is. They had Joe Scarborough in the air making three weeks ago, three weeks ago, saying, I spend a lot of time with Joe Biden. He is more intellectually engaged and vigorous and able to process complicated information than I've ever seen him before. This version of Joe, Joe Biden is the best. He said that he's more in charge mentally than any of the House speakers over the last 30 years. The level of lying and propaganda they were spewing and attacking people, pointing out the truth, the truth that they're now admitting is, is hard to describe. And that's the thing that I keep going back to.

Megyn Kelly
So now you've got, and I want to talk about there a report just broke on axios about the reaction within camp Biden as the staffers were watching the debate. The same staffers who are, you know, putting out press releases now, telling us, move on, there's nothing to see here. Grow up. You know, breathe through your nose like the mouth breathers, right. Like this is the staff behind the scenes, how they were all but passed out while they watched. I'll get into the details in a minute. But first, I've got to start with this now in the wake of that disastrous debate. And keep in mind right now, you know, the White House is, he's all in. He's not withdrawing. And actually he's going to do the second debate, too. He's also going to do this. None of that is happening. But anyway, Lawrence O'Donnell, who says he runs a panic free zone over there at MSNBC like it's Biden. Calm down. As his colleagues on morning Joe, Joe Scarborough in particular, did a 180 the day after the debate. I never said he was any of those things. He should step down now he's gone back the other way. Lawrence O'Donnell says this is the solution so we can have better, more meaningful debates like the one in September.

Reporter
Listen, it will allow the candidates to have as many staff as they want, join them on the stage throughout the debate and make sure that all of them have microphones.

And the candidates should be allowed to turn to their staffs and confer with them about anything at any time in the debate.

And we should be able to hear everything they say so we can hear if the candidate has competent or incompetent staff. We could hear the candidate overrule some advisors and say something else. We could watch the candidates actually think and process information, including possibly information that they might not know until a staff member tells them or reminds them.

A candidate should be allowed to let staff members actually answer questions for them, just as the secretary of state, Antony Blinken, answers questions on behalf of the president around the world, as has every secretary of state in history.

That's the way the presidency actually works. The presidency does not involve oral exams and memory quizzes. The president is allowed to forget.

Megyn Kelly
So he's going to show up with a stadium size team behind him. I got. Does anyone know anybody got a abortion? I actually, Mister president, we thought you were going to be able to handle that one. We didn't bring anybody on abortion. And this is so absurd, Glenn.

Glenn Greenwald
Okay, so we've had presidential debates conducted exactly the same way for 65 years on television, one on one, going back to the Kennedy Nixon debates. But even before that, you know, we celebrate things like the Lincoln Douglas debates and like, these one on one debates. This is how we've always held debates. We haven't had, like, a staff of people behind the person who whispers in their ears or even who overrides them and speaks for them. It's just such a sign of how desperate the situation is for Joe Biden that, you know, one of the few people in the Democratic Party influence ring, which is Lawrence O'Donnell, who still is clinging to the idea that Biden is perfect, wants to radically change not just how presidential debates are held, but how humans communicate. Like, oh, you don't have to answer for yourself. You get to have, like, you know, 40 year old staffers to prove that you're confident because they speak for you. You know, this is just such a sign of hilarious desperation. Imagine what America, you know, Donald Trump would never allow a need to speak over him or for him. So imagine having, like, this debate where Biden has, like, Ron Klaine and all of Joe Biden's staffers behind him and Anthony Blinken, and every time there's a question, they, like, push him aside and answer for him. Like, that's supposed to help Joe Biden.

Megyn Kelly
Like, Joe Biden be out there. Hunter Biden, that that'd be helpful. Sure.

Glenn Greenwald
Joe. Joe and Hunter answering for him, vouching for what I like, a man of character and great values. He is. So, so, you know, I just, I think we're at this stage where it's become a farce. Like, it's parody at this point. You know, it's a very serious matter on the one hand. On the other, I confess to finding it incredibly entertaining just because these elites are getting exposed the way Joe Biden got exposed on the stage for what they really are. And by the way, whoever has succeeded in convincing Donald Trump to stay out of the spotlight for two weeks, to let the Democrats implode on their own, deserves some kind of, like, Nobel level prize, because that was a miracle that person performed. I don't know exactly who that credit, but it's shocking that they got Trump to do that. But that has been crucial because the Democrats and their media allies are just at war with each other in a way we've never seen.

And all they're doing is damaging Biden more and more. And if he does insist on staying on, it's going to be bizarre what they've done. They've kind of created this dilemma for themselves where every day they have to go and attack Biden more and more, even knowing there's a chance that he will be their candidate.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, it's like your candidate is going to be one of these two prize fighters. You know, it could be the Russian in the match with Rocky and. But, you know, you don't really want the Russian, but you're stuck with the Russian. But what you do, what you do to the Russian all the days leading up to the big fight is you break his leg and then you break his hand and then you blind him and trying to convince your people that you shouldn't send the Russian. But if the Russian goes into the fight now, you've completely hobbled him and he's got to fight rocky. You know, it's like there's, it's actually, it is somewhat, I confess, entertaining to watch this whole thing go down. What concerns me more than anything is he's now the sitting president. It would be more entertaining if he were just a challenger. But Biden's now the sitting president, and it's provocative. It's dangerous. I do want to make one point about the debate. So Trump has been very smart. I saw something. I think it was Red Steez, Stephen Miller, not the one who worked for Trump, but the other, the commentator.

Glenn Greenwald
Right?

Megyn Kelly
The media critic, I think it was. He had a picture of this guy covered in silver duct tape, pressed against the wall back like this. His mouth was taped, his body was taped, you know, as some unidentifiable person. And he jokingly said, whoever in the Trump campaign did this to Trump was absolutely brilliant in the wake of that debate, can't say anything. And now team Biden's getting aggravated because, you know, they're looking for a rescue. Say something stupid, please, so that all meet, all the media will focus on you, Donald. And he hasn't. He's been remarkably disciplined and then actually went out there and dropped this nugget at a campaign rally down in Florida last night. SOT 24.

Donald Trump
So tonight I'm officially offering Joe the chance to redeem himself in front of the entire world.

Let's do another debate this week so that sleepy Joe Biden can prove to everyone all over the world that he has what it takes to be president.

But this time, it will be man to man. No moderators, no holes barred.

Just name the place, anytime, anywhere.

I'm also officially challenging Kricka Joe to an 18 hole golf match right here.

It will be among the most watched sporting events in history, maybe bigger than the Ryder cup or even the Masters.

I will give him ten strokes aside, and if he wins, I will give the charity of his choice, any charity that he wants, $1 million, and I'll bethe you he doesn't take the offer.

Megyn Kelly
And Joe Biden's team promptly responded. We're not doing that.

It's a no. We're not showing up to your dumb debate. Actually, they didn't comment on the debate. They only said, we're not going to show up and do your golf game. We're busy being president.

But noticeably, Glenn, they did not take the opportunity to debate him again.

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, shocking.

I mean, honestly, Megan, like, the thing that I never thought I would hear in my entire life is something that you just said, which is you use the adjective disciplined and applied it to Donald Trump. And I have to say, like, it actually applies. And that's what is so miraculous. Like, the one hardest thing to do in this world probably, is to convince Trump to stay out of the spotlight, especially when, you know, he kind of has an advantageous position and they've succeeded in doing that. And then even last night, you know, this kind of, like, posturing of like, yeah, let's go man on man. You know, he's been spending a lot of time, like, at these, you know, fighting events and, you know, appealing to his face there. And I think he's always understood, Donald Trump has, that the entertainment value of politics is something that is very, it's a, it's a serious weapon. He, his humor is a very strong, potent advantage that he has and rebels.

Megyn Kelly
Zachary? There were moments that were very funny. I'm sorry. Like, they weren't, they weren't the nicest moments, but they were funny. We're going to get into some of that. But very interesting. He challenged him another debate, and it was declined by silence. Glenn stays with me. Don't go away. I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love great people like doctor Laura Glenn Beck Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Go get your first three months for free.

Glenn Greenwald
Go to siriusxm.com mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's siriusxm.com mkshow and get three months free. Offer details apply.

Megyn Kelly
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So we began last hour talking about some defections. We talked about Nancy Pelosi starting to send some very different messaging about President Biden, not, not explicitly saying she supports him staying in. And we played Senator Michael Bennett becoming the first democratic senator to publicly turn on Biden, saying it's going to lead to a GOP landslide if he stays in. There have been other senators to, let's say, sound mealy mouthed about Biden. Senator Chris Murphy this week will be absolutely critical. The president needs to do more. Senator Patty Murray must, he must do more to demonstrate that he can campaign strong enough to beat Donald Trump.

There was a report, a tweet by Dana Bash which I mentioned, that not only Bennett Bennett, but Sherrod, Sherrod Brown of Ohio, John Tester of Montana also told colleagues earlier this week that they do not believe President Biden can win. And we're being told by people like Joe Manchin, just wait. Just wait until the weekend. Just wait. So what's happening? We can't say exactly, but this, the latest is from Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, speaking of reporters outside the Senate this morning.

Glenn Greenwald
Listen, I am deeply concerned about Joe Biden winning this November because it is an existential threat to the country if Donald Trump wins. So I think that we have to reach a conclusion as soon as possible.

And I think Joe Biden as the democratic nominee has my support.

Megyn Kelly
It's the same message as Pelosi. He's made his decision. He's told everybody the decision is to run. They just refuse to accept that as reality because obviously they have a different plan that is in the works. And what we are waiting to see is how does that play out? What is the plan when the New York Times is anxiety over? This is palpable, Glenn, where they write the headline is democrats panic about Biden but do nothing. And they mention some of those senators, but then they talk about the big meetings that the House and the Senate had on Tuesday, saying their strategy appears to be do nothing, at least for now. They're amping up the pressure.

It was actually interesting. Joy Reid, of all people, is pissed off at the New York Times trying to stand by Biden. Here's how she put it. She might not. She might have a point. For they seem laser focused on Biden's age and acuity with no headlines on the fact that Donald Trump has been showing serious signs of cognitive decline for years. And we do not know anything from any of his doctors.

As the New York Republic, as the new Republic's Greg Sargent puts it, one thing that's clear from the Biden age story is this. The New York Times knows how to crusade when it wants to. And the New York Times is crusading against Biden's mental unfitness for office in a way it's just not doing with Trump. It is noticeable, sort of in a similar way that like the whip up to the Iraq war was noticeable.

Yeah. I mean, not totally wrong about what the New York Times is trying to do to Biden. And, you know, yesterday we had comfortably smug of ruthless, say. It's their impotent rage that you're reading about on the front page of the New York Times. They're infuriated that their word is not causing more action sooner.

Glenn Greenwald
I think it's true of the general media. You know, these cable outlets, these commentators, these activists, these parties insiders, they really expect that they know everything. They really believe that and they expect their decrees to be followed. One of the reasons they're so angry at the american public is because the american public has been refusing to listen to them and follow them. I mean, they've been telling the american public for eight years that Donald Trump is an existential threat to democracy. And yet, if you ask in polls, Americans who's a bigger threat to democracy, they'll say Donald Trump, where it's 50 50. There's a complete breach between their power and what they think their power should be and what their power actually is. But here's the other thing, Megan.

Okay, so they obviously are petrified, I believe, that, of losing to Donald Trump, but even more so of losing their own jobs in the House and the Senate, losing their majority, which takes away their power.

So even if they were to force Joe Biden out, what is their better solution? The problem that they have is they cannot just push Kamala Harris aside, because within the confines of the own identity politics rules that they've created, that would be racist and misogynistic. You can't just, like, push a black woman aside and put a white man like Gavin Newsom or a white woman like Gretchen Whitmer at the top of the ticket. That would create a huge revolt among democratic elites and black leaders and the like. On the other hand, Kamala Harris, people have forgotten, is what. Honestly, I mean, she's one of the worst politicians we've seen in a long time. I think she's even more awkward than Hillary and, like, more unlikable. She had, Megan, every advantage in the 2020 primary. She had all that California money. She comes from California. There's massive democratic donors in California. She had positive press. She was a black woman. Kamala Harris is like, a smart person. She's like, a good, smart lawyer. She's capable of those things. She's just not a politician. And her campaign was such a disaster that she had to drop out before the first vote was cast because she was, like, at 3% or 2%, and the Democratic Party base just had no connection to her. She's not a leader of black voters. She's not going to, like, she doesn't excite black voters or young voters or any of these fairy tales that they're telling. And Kamala Harris is poison in sling state. So even if they push Biden out, I don't think they've gotten that far as to think about, like, well, what is.

How is that increasing our chances of winning?

Megyn Kelly
Carvel suggested Clinton and Bill Clinton and Barack Obama select eight candidates to have a quick mini primary and then hash it out of the convention. George Clooney was kind of suggesting something similar here's Trump. Trump, you know, he, he sees all of this. Of course he's watching all of this. And he started to take some shots at Kamala. He gave her a nickname. Nickname, nickname, which is kind of like a badge of honor when, if Trump gives you a nickname, it was funny. And here he is at that same rally in Florida talking about her yesterday.

Donald Trump
Whatever else can be said about crooked Joe Biden, I. You have to give him credit for one brilliant decision, probably the smartest decision he's ever made.

He picked Kamala Harris as his vice president. Oh, it was brilliant because it was an insurance policy. Maybe the best insurance policy I've ever seen. Marco.

If Joe had picked someone even halfway competent, they would have bounced him from office years ago. But they can't, because she's got to be their second choice. She has no choice and no chance. Did you know they are all co conspirators in the sinister plot to defraud the american public about the cognitive abilities of the man in the Oval Office? Sometimes he's not there.

Glenn Greenwald
Often.

Donald Trump
Laughing. Kamala. L a f f I n apostrophe.

Megyn Kelly
Laughing, laughing, which is based. Don't think we didn't do our homework, Glenn, on moments like this.

High five.

Oh, gosh. It's not just the laugh itself. It's that it comes up at these, the weirdest, most inopportune, inappropriate times.

And. Yeah. So what do you think of laughing? La f f I n apostrophe Kamala and Trump's back of the hand order?

Glenn Greenwald
Well, first of all, you know, you see Trump there, and for any media member in the media or the democratic partisans or whatever, who, like, why aren't people questioning Biden, Trump's capacity to serve? It's because you just look at him in these rallies. Like, all of that was very funny. Like, the comic timing was very perfect. That's a difficult thing to do, you know, like, Biden's in the Oval Office. Well, maybe, like, some of the time he is. And, you know, like, the whole thing about his brilliance of choosing Kamala Harris so he can't get pushed aside. And then this nickname for Kamala Harris.

The problem with Kamala Harris cackling like that is that it isn't even like she's laughing at other people's jokes or whatever. She does that when she makes what she thinks is a joke and, like, nobody else laughs. And then she spends so much time, like, cackling, demanding that you laugh along with her at her own joke.

I've had people like that in my life. I've seen people do that before. It's so off putting. And, like, you know, you're, like, resentful about it that they're, like, almost demanding that you laugh at their joke. It's so, it's so aliena.

And also. Yeah, like, it's not like she's laughing at other people. She's like, look at how funny I am. And it's like nothing you've just said is, like, remotely humorous. And again, like, so she, like, has this posture. I always feel like she just walked it out of a board of directors meeting of, like, Aetna or, like, pfizer or Boeing or something. You know, she has, like, very corporate posture. And every time she tries to, like, adopt a sort of, like, more, like, common person vernacular, it just comes off so fake. It's like when I was, when she's been swearing lately.

Yeah. Like, you know, just AOC offensively uses, like, black parlance. I guess she thinks she's earned that, you know, the way Hillary Clinton used to, like, use that fake southern accent.

You know, these things are just important. Like, and also, I think the other important part is that every politician has negative things in their background. And because Kama has never really run for major office on a national level, you should run for vice president. But it doesn't get that scrutiny. There's a huge amount of negative of Oppo research on her that has never seen the light of day, that the Republicans now have tens and hundreds of millions of dollars to pour out. And I think the fact that she is sort of already behind Trump before there's even been any opposition research against her, I just, I don't know. I think the Democrats are so desperate that they're again living in a fairy tale world where they think that either they can just brush her aside and none of their bases going to mind, given all the things they've been told about black women and privilege and race and all of that and gender, or they're going to go with her. And I honestly would rather, if I were Democrats, I would honestly rather latch my chances to like a very incapacitated Biden than like, a cackling Kamala Harris who only has four months to define herself to the american public.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, I think they're in denial about, or they've forgotten. They've conveniently forgotten or made themselves willfully blind to what a terrible politician she is.

I've got to offer this one sound bite of Trump to the point I preface it with, I realize this is not nice, but it's everyone's coming.

Glenn Greenwald
I think I know what's coming.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. And you know, the person Trump is talking about here has said the most vile things possible about Trump. But here's sat 27 we're leading in Nevada.

Donald Trump
And a waitress came over, beautiful waitress. And I never liked talking about physic because she's beautiful inside, because you never talk about a person's look ever. You never mentioned, the other day, I got very angry. Some man called Chris Christie fat.

And I said, sir.

And then he said he was a pig. I said, Sir, Chris Christie is not a fat pig. Please remember that. He is not a fat pig. Please take it back. And the guy's looking at me like, really?

No, we have to defend people. You can't call people fat.

So I said about nine times, he is not a fat pig.

Megyn Kelly
Sir, sir, stop that.

This is why people love him.

He has a little bit the insults, but just the funny makes you laugh. He takes the most serious subjects of the day and people in the news, and he gets you to start laughing about them.

Glenn Greenwald
I'm sorry if you deny that that's funny.

You're just not being honest. And, like, also that kind of humor, it's like kind of a multilevel, ironic humor that takes a lot of mental acuity to do. And this is, again, why I think that this idea of trying to say, oh, Trump's imagine biden pulling something like that off, off the cuff or whatever, I saw Trump do that once before. You know, when he was, he said, oh, I just heard a member of the public, a member of the crowd, call Chris Christie a fat pig. Sir, that's not nice. Don't call Chris Christie a fat pig. And this is kind of like a version of that. And the reality is, is that remember that the biggest voting block in the US are non voters, people who just don't care about politics, don't pay attention, who don't think it's worth it. Trump's ability to make it entertaining, but at the same time kind of substantive. That's the way people talk in private. Like, that's the reality. People make jokes that you're not supposed to make. And I absolutely think that's one of Trump's big superpowers in politics, is he can draw people in and make it entertaining and make people, therefore want to listen to him. And then they hear the more substantive parts, too. And in a way that democratic politicians just almost have no ability to do.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. And even the beginning of it is funny, too. You know, like, I never comment on the look. She was just beautiful on the inside. You know, you can't comment on somebody's look. Trump, of all people.

It's amazing. The whole thing is amazing. All right, so back to this, the despair inside the White House on the day, on the night of the debate, because I do think this is kind of telling.

This is by axios. Apparently, President Biden's campaign staff feel the way all of us do, which is they have serious doubts about whether he can even do this job at all. There's low morale and disillusionment, reports axios, and that forced a them to have a second, all hands on deck conference call in less than a week this past Monday. This one included Democratic National Committee staffers, too.

They've been trying to keep these staffers motivated, trying to avoid more defections, too, I guess, internally, but certainly from donors and from democratic lawmakers. And they brought in Gavin Newsom to say, worry less, just do the work. The campaign chair, General Mally Dylan, she's saying we have to bypass the narrative. I mean, real inspirational stuff. And they. Axios reports the internal fallout from the debate was made worse by the White House senior leadership not appearing to realize how deeply their own aides were impacted by watching Biden's performance.

At the Biden campaign headquarters in Wilmington, Delaware, about two dozen Biden staffers and pro Biden influencers gathered for a watch party as the president fumbled several answers. One person stood up and then laid down on the floor, despondent, according to a person in the room. When the debates video feed was temporarily interrupted, one campaign staffer blurted out, oh, thank God.

Other others watching the debate recounted feelings ranging from shock to anger to sincere concern about the president's health. Is he okay? A Biden aide texted another. Another Biden aide said they fell to numb. And a final Biden aide summed it up this way. It was, in effect, the realization of every worst case scenario. That picture of the person on the floor, you know, starfishing, Glenn, like, no, no.

Is kind of indicative of what's happened every day thereafter. And that leads me to the Cook political report and those polls we promised.

It's bad.

It's really bad. And everyone trusts cook. They're not, they don't put their thumb on the scale. They just want to tell you what's real.

They talk first about how the race has been very static for much of 24. Where does the race really stand in the wake of this debate? They say our new national average shows.

Okay, we looked at national polls. A curated average of national polls conducted by 21 nonpartisan or bipartisan pollsters that we consider reputable and transparent. Three initial takeaways it's been a remarkably stable race, but Biden's post debate dip represents the biggest polling shift we've seen all year.

In 2016, polls between Hillary and Trump gyrated wildly, depending on the news cycle, and they go through some of the history.

By contrast, the 2024 race has been locked in an exceedingly narrow trading range, with few and fleeting drifts from the default of 46 45 Trump.

They say this is mostly because they're both universally known.

However, Trump's current lead is now 47 44, so he's up three in the wake of the debate, he said. They say as as small a drop for Biden as it may seem, it's the most drastic shift we've seen in the race all year, and it appears to be driven almost entirely by independent voters. On June 27, Trump led with independence 46 to 44 in our average, they say, by two points. Today he leads by six points. So it was two. Now it's six.

Most of the partisans have barely moved all the movements, been amongst the independents. Then they go through the black and the latino voters.

They say Trump's current numbers with blacks and Latinos are incompatible with any plausible democratic victory scenario.

They go back and they look at earlier elections. July of 2020, the forecast was Biden was 75 points ahead with black voters. The final was Biden was 75 points ahead of Trump with black voters.

Now the forecast is Biden's 50 points ahead with black voters. Just the forecast, which they got right the last time, is 25 points lower with blacks. Then they talk about Latinos.

Last time around, Latinos, there was a, they forecast a 28 point Biden advantage. It ended with a 33 point Biden advantage. Right. Now, what are they forecasting with latino voters? A seven point latino advantage. Yet another massive fire. Then they spend some time on younger voters. They say Biden's numbers with this group were tepid to start the year. They've steadily gotten worse.

He let's see.

Today our average shows Biden leading Trump with 18 to 29 year olds by five points.

Last time around, he won young voters by 24 points.

If there's a silver lining for Biden, it's his standing among seniors hasn't moved very much. At the beginning of February, he trailed with this group 45 to 49. Today he trails 46 to 48.

My God, there's no good news in all of this, and it's why six states got moved closer to republican wins than they were before. The debate. So what effect does this have?

Glenn Greenwald
Well, obviously, Democrats in Congress are seeing these exact same things, and they respect cook as much as anybody, probably more so. It's kind of like the Bible of Washington. And so I do think after the debate, there was a little bit of uncertainty. I know I shared it, too, precisely because people have long already been saying that they know that Biden's too old, that he's too cognitively declined. The only people who didn't know that or who weren't saying that were people in the media and some Democrats, but the rest of the country was making clear that they already thought that. So I thought there was a chance that if they saw the debate, it would just confirm for them what they already thought and it wouldn't actually move it. But I think the reaction you had is probably similar to what a lot of them had, which is like, yes, I kind of already knew Biden was incognito declined. But seeing it in that, to that degree, I think on a stage that important was so extreme that it is kind of shocking to see the sitting president just looking like a docile, confused, fragile, you know, senile old man. That's, that's alarming. It's scary, it's unpleasant.

And yet it is true that the polling members haven't moved much. It's not like a cataclysmic drop for Biden, but in these close races, you don't need that. And also, I think what's so notable is, like, usually, and even in the races where Democrats have won or lost, like in 2016, they still want the popular vote because there's so many votes in blue states like New York and California. To see Biden, Trump ahead, not just on the electoral vote, but on the popular vote, is extremely alarming for Democrats. And the other thing I think is so interesting, Megan, is that this again shows the big, big, huge gap between the elite class and media and the ordinary voters, which is one of the main gospels about Donald Trump, is that he's a racist, he's a white nationalist. He hates black people, hates latino people. This is what the media has been saying ever since he came down that escalator. And yet more and more and more non white voters are migrating from the Democratic Party either to the Republican Party or just not voting at all. And if the Democrats don't have massive numbers of black and latino voters, which clearly they do not, it is extremely difficult to see how they can win. And then as far as young voters are concerned, I do actually think that Biden support steadfast support for arming Israel, for financing Israel's war, for standing by Israel in the war in Gaza. Young people overwhelmingly do not like that war. I think that has also created a lot of problems for Biden in terms of young people as well.

And so when you look at it from those demographic categories that you just described, the picture is so dire that it's not actually surprising why Democrats really are getting as desperate as they're obviously getting.

Megyn Kelly
Yesterday we talked about James Clyburn and how important he is because so far the Congressional Black Caucus has been the one very reliably pro Biden group, group in the Congress. And they have been in the wake of the debate as well. And we played the following soundbite when he emerged from that House Democrats meeting.

It was very strange. But here's what he said at the time. Watch. This is yesterday. Did you speak up in favor of President Biden in there?

Glenn Greenwald
I didn't speak.

Megyn Kelly
What was there more people saying Biden.

Glenn Greenwald
Should step down or more people saying riding with Biden, riding. Is that the general consensus in there? We are riding with bikes.

We are riding with bikes in there.

Megyn Kelly
We are riders.

Glenn Greenwald
You're still national championship.

Yes, I am riding with Biden. From everyone in the room. Everyone riding with Biden. Do you still support the idea of a mini primary?

Megyn Kelly
Do you feel like has to win.

Glenn Greenwald
Back the house, your focus on 2025? And you're right in the back.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. And just in case you didn't catch that, national campaign co chair for the reelection of Joe Biden.

He had earlier said we'd be open to Kamala if the president decides not to run. And people took that as, whoa, he's telegraphing, Kamala's good. But then yesterday it was riding with Biden ten times. Now this just breaking. Glenn.

From the Washington Post, Representative James Clyburn asked, uh, by Jacqueline Alamani, uh, whether Joe Biden's decision to remain the nominee is final. The response was, quote, I have no idea. You need to ask him again. What we're seeing here is a little wiggle room from everybody, right? Just a little bit more wiggle room. Like, I don't know if it's final. Nancy Pelosi. He needs to decide. He already decided. He needs to decide to Blumenthal. He, you know, he really needs to make a decision too soon, you know, but I support him. This just happened. Yet another congressman, Democrat, Representative Pat Ryan of New York, came out and said he needs to step aside for the good of the country.

It's the same language you've heard from the eleven or so others who have behind the scenes and publicly said, he should go. He's an Trump's existential threat to democracy, our duty to put forth the strongest candidate. Joe Biden's a patriot, but he's no longer the best candidate to defeat Trump. For the good of our country, he should go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, bit by bit. And this is Wednesday, right? We still have Thursday, tomorrow's oppressor.

And at the same time, all this is happening, Glenn, we're getting leaks, more and more leaks about the doctors who have visited the White House, the neurological condition of the president.

And then there was this ditty on NBC. We had a doctor on Bredesen who I like, but who I think is a very pro Biden person, who was basically saying, this is about wisdom versus the brashness of inexperience.

Okay, here is a neurologist who appeared on MSNBC yesterday and saw it very differently.

Reporter
Listen, I see him 20 times a day in clinics. He has just classic features of neurodegeneration. Lots of arm swings standing up. Lordotically, you notice when he turns, it's kind of end block turning. It's not a quick turn.

So that's one of the hallmarks of Parkinson's, is rigidity and bradykinesia, slow movement. And he has that hallmark, especially with the low voice that said, was a cold hypophonia.

A small, monotone voice like this over time is a hallmark of Parkinsonism. I could have diagnosed him from across the mall. Our shuffling gait, we call that so little steps. Loss of arm swing from the rigidity. When we walk, we have a nice cadence. You notice he doesn't really swing his arms and end block turning, meaning he kind of pivots around his foot. If you said, hey, presidente, and he wouldn't go like this, his motor symptoms are degenerating. He has parkinsonisms. That is a fact.

Megyn Kelly
Meaning symptoms of Parkinson's. He wasn't trying to diagnose him, but he was saying it'd be easy to, if I were asked to and had examined him and seen these symptoms. So it's all, you know, you see it all coming together. The zeroing in on the neurological symptoms, the taking advantage or taking. Paying attention now to the White House visitor logs and who's been visiting him and when and for what purpose. And then the drip, drip, drip, which the Biden campaign has done its best to stop from Congress saying, we need to see more. We need to see more.

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah. I mean, could you even imagine, you know, NBC News putting on a neurologist a month ago to come on an opine that Biden seems to have Parkinson's. You know, it's like everything. And it shows you what these media outlets really are. They're pure propaganda. Let's, they're pure activist organizations. It's, it's extreme. I don't know. Maybe I'm focusing on this too much because I think journalism is important. I decided to do it, you know, but it's like one of the most glaring, like, mass dropping moments of what their true function is. It's like, why was it, would it be so shocking for them to put that on a month ago? And now suddenly, when they're all engaged in the effort to drive Biden out of the race for their own political and ideological ends, now they're willing to put somebody on like that. And, you know, I put somebody on.

Megyn Kelly
Who is more fair to Biden than NBC did in that clip.

Glenn Greenwald
Exactly. I mean, anyone who would have said that a month ago would have been driven out of the public space as somebody who's a crank who's violating their ethical duties as a medical professional or whatever, and now he's given a complete platform on NBC News because these media outlets are absolutely intent, obviously, on driving Biden out of the race. And it's interesting because in a war between the Biden White House and the corporate media, it is very hard for me to decide, like, who to defend and who to root for. I kind of hope that they just go to war forever. But in this case, I do have to say that I do find there is some validity in what the Biden White House is saying, which is, you know, you keep talking about how the only thing that matters is saving american democracy. I'm the candidate. I'm the nominee that the voters chose.

I won. We had an election that you all said was fair. And so for George Clooney and like NBC executives and like Joe Joe, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama to swoop in and override the voters will and decide that actually I shouldn't be the nominee is a total subversion of the things that you claim you're defending.

And this, of course, is the mass dropping moment because it shows that none of these people care at all about democratic values. What they mean by democracy and saving democracy is that their side wins. That's all they mean by that. And this is exhibiting that.

Megyn Kelly
So clearly, I agree with you in principle, but it's like, you know, we both have kids. Can't have this guy commander in chief. Just can't, can't do it. Cannot have it.

Glenn Greenwald
I know, but that, but that I, but I thought that a month ago and I thought that six months ago and I thought that a year ago. Like, that's what I'm saying. You know it.

Megyn Kelly
Well, no, I know, but I mean.

Glenn Greenwald
Like, we, like that.

Megyn Kelly
We, that's why I'm like, yes, the press is disgusting and they've been further exposed as we've seen so many times. But he needs to go now. He needs to go right now. He needs to be 25th amendmented right out of Congress. And by the way, the Republican House speaker was suggesting that that's, they're interested in that, too, though. He can't do it. He can't do it with just republicans.

Anyway, there's a new. I think you got to go, Glenn. But a new video of him just dropped. Do you have time to see it or do you have to run?

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, I said 130, so yeah, it's fine.

Megyn Kelly
Okay. I'm pressing your limit. But here he is, Joe Biden meeting with the executive council of the AFL CIO.

And what you're going to hear for the listening audience is he, he's randomly grabbing the mic, he starts rambling and then the feed abruptly cuts. According to the RNC, which posted the clip, reporters are then herded out of the room. This is my first time seeing it, too. Let's watch.

Donald Trump
I promised I was going to have.

Glenn Greenwald
A cabinet that looked like America, and it does.

More minorities, more women, more labor. I'm serious. Think about it. That's who we are. That's why we're strong. We're diverse, we're strong. We got to stop looking at it.

Megyn Kelly
Like it's not a problem.

It's an asset.

It's an, I don't know what just happened there, but clearly whoever was in control did not want him to have an unscripted moment. Glenna.

Glenn Greenwald
Yeah, I mean, you know, but at the same time, because there is now such a concerted effort to push him out, I think all these moments, like I didn't see anything there that disturbing. I have to say it was more like the camera angle and the abruptness of it. But I think what's now going to happen is just like they were accusing conservatives of doing a month ago, namely that they were taking every event and distorting it to make Biden seem more lost and disoriented than he was. That's what they're kind of now going to be doing as well, I wouldn't be surprised, for example, of that, Robert. Her video suddenly leaks after Democrats and the media have joined to keep it suppressed. You're going to see this, as you were saying earlier, you know, they do have a lot of weapons. I mean, for all the talk about how we govern a democracy, the establishment centers of power wield a great deal of authority and influence over our politics. They are not just going to, as you said, like let the House and the Senate be taken away out of their grip without putting up a gigantic fight. And that's what we're now seeing play out in front of us. And on some level, while I say it's entertaining, I also think it's illuminating because it really is giving Americans a very clear understanding of how power is wielded in this country, what is actually meant by democracy, what all these players really are. And it's kind of like a cornered rat, which is what these media outlets and Democrats are. And when rats get cornered, that's when they show their true nature.

And that's exactly what's happening here.

Megyn Kelly
It's amazing. It's amazing to watch the media continue to expose itself. Oh, thank God. You and I do what we do, my friend. Great to see you.

Glenn Greenwald
Exactly. It's always great to see you, Megan. Great to talk to you. Thanks for having me on.

Megyn Kelly
Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No B's, no agenda, and no fear.

George Clooney Wants Biden Out, Nancy Pelosi Wavers, and Elites are Panicked, with Glenn Greenwald | Ep. 833

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1: Opening Remarks

2: Pelosi's Ambiguity

3: Clooney's Critique

4: Media Influence

5: Democratic Strategy

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