Fraud Week: Megyn Kelly Reveals Personal Story of a Scam in Her Own Life Involving Her Family | Ep. 818

This episode delves into a detailed recount of a sophisticated scam targeting Megyn Kelly's family, highlighting vulnerabilities even among the well-informed.

1. Even the well-educated and vigilant can be targeted by scams.
2. Scammers use detailed impersonations and high-pressure tactics to manipulate victims.
3. Cryptocurrency is a preferred tool for scammers due to its difficulty to trace.
4. Personal verification of strange calls can prevent fraud.
5. The story underscores the importance of community support and skepticism in the face of potential scams.

1: The Initial Call

Jackie, Megyn's mother-in-law, receives a panic-stricken call from someone pretending to be her daughter, claiming she and her partner are in jail and need bail money. Megyn Kelly: "It took virtually my entire family on my husband's side."

2: The Scam Unravels

The scam's complexity grows as the supposed lawyer and court involved in the bail process push for a quick transfer of funds via unconventional means. Doug Brunt: "I can't get $17,000 to Cape Cod in 2 hours."

3: Discovering the Truth

A family friend checks on the supposedly jailed family members, discovering them safe at home, leading to the realization of the scam. Steve: "It was a regular, perfect day in our lives."

4: Confronting the Scammer

Megyn and her husband engage the scammer, exposing his lack of detailed knowledge and confirming the fraudulent nature of the situation. Megyn Kelly: "This was nuts, very sketchy real."

1. Verify through direct contact: Always confirm a family member's situation by contacting them or someone close directly.
2. Be cautious with payment requests: Scrutinize any request for money, especially if asked via wire transfer or cryptocurrency.
3. Educate vulnerable family members: Discuss common scam tactics with elderly relatives or those less familiar with such frauds.
4. Use independent verification for unusual requests: If contacted by law enforcement or legal entities, independently verify the authenticity of the call.
5. Stay informed about scam tactics: Regularly update your knowledge on common and emerging scam techniques to better guard against them.

Fraud Week concludes with Megyn Kelly's personal story of fraud that she reveals for the first time ever - a scam involving her mother-in-law, her husband, and more. To help tell the story, you'll hear from members of her family, and Steve the Cape Cod whale watching guide who helped expose the mystery. Then Megyn plays the audio of her conversation with the scammer, and talks to security expert Bill Stanton, who helps explain the details of the scam, and how viewers and listeners can avoid being scammed and being the victim of a fraud in their own lives.

People

Megyn Kelly, Doug Brunt, Jackie, Diane, Brad, Steve

Companies

SiriusXM

Content Warnings:

None

Megyn Kelly
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show, live on SiriusXM Channel 111. Every weekday at noon east.

Hey, everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and the conclusion of fraud Week.

I have a story that I need to share with you. It's one I've never told publicly before.

And to do it right, it took virtually my entire family on my husband's side. January 22, 2021, much of the world is still shut down due to Covid, our family still living in Manhattan and getting ready to travel south for the weekend for my nephew's wedding. As I pack up that Friday, my husband Doug, calls, relaying that he has just heard from his then 84 year old mother, Jackie, in Philadelphia. She's received a disturbing phone call from her daughter, Diane. Diane and her partner Brad, are oyster fishermen on Cape Cod.

Jackie
She was hysterical sobbing and couldn't complete a full sentence. But she said that she was in jail on a drunk driving charge and that she, I needed to get talk to somebody, but she had a telephone number and they were going to talk to me about getting bail.

And this was on a Friday, which I don't know.

Anyway, I didn't know much of anything, but I kept asking her if she was all right, and I just didn't know what to do. And she just said, I'm so scared. I'm terrified.

And I asked her where Brad was, and she said, well, he's, he's in jail, too.

But she said, I don't really have time. They're not giving me long to talk.

You need to call this number.

Megyn Kelly
So what did you do next?

Jackie
I called the number and he told me that the court was closed on Friday and it was so they had limited times when you could get in.

And he told me to call this lawyer whose name I can't remember, and he would walk me through getting the bail money.

Megyn Kelly
So this was the court that you were talking to, saying, you need to talk to a lawyer. Here's a number you can call.

Jackie
Yes.

Megyn Kelly
And then did you call the lawyer?

Jackie
I did. I asked him, why is she there on a drunk driving charge when she doesn't drive, when she doesn't drink?

And he said, well, she told me she didn't drink and I believed her. So I've sent off a tox screen or, you know, I've sent off for a blood test. I didn't know why Brad was in there once. Either the court told me or the lawyer told that Brad was in because he assaulted a policeman at the scene of the accident.

Megyn Kelly
The lawyer told Jackie the bail for both of them was. Was $17,000.

Jackie
I said, well, I just don't have that kind of cash to. I don't have that kind of money to give you. I said, I'm gonna have. I'm going to call my son.

Megyn Kelly
And she did. And that's where her son, my husband, Doug brunt, comes in.

Doug Brunt
I was in the car, and my mom called, and she was distressed and agitated and frustrated, saying that she had just gotten off the phone with Diane. And Diane had been in a car accident. She broke her nose, and she was hysterically bawling from, basically, the holding cell at the jail on Cape Cod, and that she had this one phone call to make. So she had called my mom, but she needed to be bailed out. Both she and Brad had been arrested. So I'm asking my mom a bunch of questions, you know, what the heck happened? And she was telling me as best she could. Cause it was a short phone call. And apparently, Diane was sobbing through her broken nose about what had happened, but in short, a car accident. She broke her nose in the car accident.

The police came. They thought that she had been drinking and driving.

The police got aggressive with Diane. In response to that, Brad got aggressive with the police to defend Diane, and they arrested them both. And so they're now in jail in Cape Cod.

Diane gave my mom this phone number to call, who was her court appointed lawyer. And my mom had already spoken with this lawyer. She gives me the number, saying, it's very confusing. You know, all of this was happening during COVID and so he had these reasons why the court was about to close. It was a Friday afternoon. It closes early on Fridays. Now, due to Covid, nobody's even in there due to Covid.

And we need to rush $17,000 over to the court or else Diane and Brad are going to spend the full weekend in jail. And, you know, everything's going to shut down over the weekend, so they're in there. Unless we can somehow get the money to bail them out. And we had something like a two hour timeframe, right?

Megyn Kelly
So I remember you called me.

You call me, and you say, I'm.

Doug Brunt
Like, honey, handle this.

Megyn Kelly
And I was like, where's Abby?

Abby, we need you. So we were like, wait. This is impossible, first of all. Cause, like, the audience doesn't know Diane and Brad, but they are the nicest, kindest, most upstanding, cool people. Like, these are not even potentially drunk driving lunatics who attack the cops.

Doug Brunt
They're not true. I mean, I think if someone got aggressive with Diane, I could see Brad stepping in. That. That made some sense. But otherwise, none of it was in character.

Megyn Kelly
The only thing that gave us pause was it was Covid. Things were nuts. Everyone was behaving bizarrely, so there really was a piece that was like, did they have some sort of a meltdown? Did something like what? It was so bizarre.

Doug Brunt
So mom. My mom gave me the phone number. I called a lawyer. He was explaining he needs $17,000 in cash. He reiterates much of what my mom told me, which is the window is closing. It's, you know, due to COVID protocols. The whole thing shuts down at, you know, 04:00 on a Friday, and it goes dark for the weekend. So we have only this amount of time to get them out of, you know, the holding cell. So, you know, can you get $17,000 in cash to Cape Cod right now? And I'm thinking, I can't get myself to Cape Cod in 2 hours, let alone $17,000 in cash. So you and I start scrambling for ideas to how to deal with this, right?

Megyn Kelly
So we're like. We're. And it's. It's not that easy to get $17,000 cash like that. So I'm trying to figure out how to get the money. And you're talking to your mom, trying to calm your mom down. You're calling your brothers, letting them know what's happening with Di. Everybody's like, my God, this is a nightmare. And what was the next thing that happened? I'm trying to remember the next step in the chain.

Doug Brunt
We were scrambling around to try to get money. We were talking to the lawyer. We'd ask him questions like, you know, what is a way we can do this? And we had the idea to call Diane, Brad's friend in Cape Cod, who has sort of a whale watching business. He has a number of big charter boats where you can go out and watch the whales off Provincetown, which we've.

Megyn Kelly
Done with him before.

Doug Brunt
Which we've done with it. Yeah. So Steve.

And so we call Steve, who, thank God, picks up the phone, and we get him up to speed on the problem.

Megyn Kelly
Here's that friend Steve from Cape Cod.

Steve
Apparently, this needed to be done locally. So Doug called me because I'm a close friend of both Brad and Diane's.

It was a pretty large sum. And he said that I be reimbursed after we got him out.

But because it was a weekend, things couldn't be done normally.

Doug Brunt
So then we call back to Laura and say, we've got someone on the ground on the cape with the cash. Where do we go? It says, actually, I'm not there now. So there's no one to receive the cash. So he pivoted to saying, you can use cryptocurrency because of, again, Covid, the courts will accept in these extreme circumstances, the courts will actually accept cryptocurrency.

Megyn Kelly
And he was saying he was going to give us a wire to send it directly to the court.

Doug Brunt
There was a phone to the court. We could call the court, and they had, you know, they matched up case numbers.

Megyn Kelly
And we did call the court. Yeah, we called the court. We dialed the number and that the lawyer had given us. We had an official person answer. We were put on hold. They asked us for the case number. We gave them the case number. They looked it up. They said, diane and Brad, they had their names, and they verified everything that we had been told thus far. When we come back, what happened to Brad and Diane? Thankfully, Steve was on the case.

We are picking up my conversation with Doug about what happened as soon as we got the instructions on how to get the crypto delivered.

Doug Brunt
So I remember you were in Manhattan at the time. So I guess he went online and found locations where they have crypto kiosks where you can basically insert cash and it comes out on the other end as cryptocurrency. So that's our next plan. But at this point, we're like, this is nuts. This is very sketchy real, but I still thought, going back to what we know, Diane's still in jail.

Megyn Kelly
It was like, maybe there's a sketchy lawyer involved. But really, we were like, Diane and Brad are in trouble, and we've got to find a way of helping them. And thank God that you enlisted Steve.

Doug Brunt
Yeah. So when we call Steve, we say, it's got to be crypto now. So stand down on the brown bag of cash.

And so Steve's thinking, this is nuts, but he's now fully in it. You know, he thought Diane, Brad needed rescuing, so he's still in rescue mode.

Megyn Kelly
Steve asks for the lawyer's number so he can arrange this payment directly. And here the lawyer gets something very wrong. As Jackie would later explain to me.

Jackie
The tan was barnstable.

And he said Barnstable because it's spelled that way.

But up there, they call it Barnstable.

Steve
Yeah. No one local that would have known straight off. You know, he didn't speak like he was even here. So.

So that was a dead giveaway.

Megyn Kelly
That's when Steve decided to drive by Diane and Brad's house and to call the house phone on the way there. Where were Diane and Brad?

Diane
In our living room.

Brad
Having a great day.

Diane
It was a regular, perfect day in our lives.

Diane
Not in jail, not punching out cops, happy at home.

Diane
It had been a long time since we'd been in jail.

I was in my recliner, and I was very comfortable.

In fact, it's a swivel recliner that, you know, goes back and forth. It goes every direction in the house, and I live in it. It's perfect.

Doug Brunt
None of it was real.

Megyn Kelly
They had no idea any of this was going on, right?

Doug Brunt
And we'd been running around for hours at this point, hysterical.

Megyn Kelly
They were totally fine. There had been no incident whatsoever. Yes, Doug and I, with all of our so called higher education and city sophistication, had almost been had by some con man, until Steve, the Cape Cod whale watch guy, shut the whole thing down.

Steve
I just stopped and took a breath and thought it out a little bit, and it just didn't make any sense to me at all.

Diane
He is so incredibly capable at every aspect of life. Like, he just is just a can do guy. There's nothing like he's unstoppable, especially in, like, his business. And, you know, dealing with stuff on the water, too, makes you that way, because when you're out on a. On a boat or a ship, you can't walk home if there's a problem. So he has that mentality that wherever he's standing, he can fix the problem.

Diane
But Steve is also, like, a cool customer. Like, he's not like, he told us after the fact. Yeah. He's like, yeah. I mean, when I answered the phone and it was Steve, he said, oh, good, you're home. I have to call Doug. Like, in that tone of voice, he wasn't like, oh, my God. You're safe. You know, he doesn't overreact to anything. He's great in a crisis. And he, when we asked him later, he said, I was gonna call you. If you didn't answer, I was gonna go to your house. If you weren't there, I was gonna go to the Wellfleet police, our town. And if they didn't know anything about it, I was gonna end there. If they did, I was gonna go to Barnstable with the money.

So he was never. He's unflappable.

Megyn Kelly
So Steve figured this whole thing out, and Doug and I began asking ourselves, how on earth did we almost fall for this nonsense? Well, it all boiled down to one thing in our defense.

We believed that Doug's mom had actually spoken with Diane.

Doug Brunt
That was the key to this whole thing running us out as long as it did, because what we thought we had in the category of things we know wasn't right. That was a bad assumption.

Megyn Kelly
Right. They had fooled your mom, which is absolutely amazing that they fooled her about her own daughter's voice. Hence the importance of the broken nose.

Doug Brunt
Yeah. Right, right. They had so many tricks. And then, of course, Covid was just opened the door to so many of these stupid things because we're all. Everything was ridiculous then.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, that's why they didn't. She didn't get it. Your mom heard a hysterical adult woman claiming she had broken her nose, which would explain a differed voice, and she went with it. She believed it.

Jackie
I thought it was Diane. And still, if I could hear it again, I would still think it was Diane.

Megyn Kelly
You believed it because why?

Jackie
Sounded like her voice.

And the panic, I mean, I could take the. It just seemed like she was crying and screaming and not screaming. She was just kind of hysterical, and it sounded like her.

The whole situation did not sound like her.

But I really couldn't, you know, at the time, I couldn't really work my way through the car accident, and I did realize that she would have been in a drunk driving accident, which is why I asked the lawyer that.

Megyn Kelly
Right, because Diane doesn't drink.

Jackie
No.

Megyn Kelly
Right.

Jackie
And that's why he said he believed her when she told him that, and that's why he sent off a blood test.

Megyn Kelly
When you found out that this was an attempted fraud, what did you think? What was your reaction?

Jackie
I was wondering how I could have been so stupid, frankly, I mean, I just so thoroughly bought into that.

And by that time, it was out of my hands, and I just watch all of you take over and figure it out.

Diane
We're loved.

Megyn Kelly
We're loved.

Diane
We did come away from that feeling very loved.

Megyn Kelly
It was so sophisticated. You know, the woman calling, pretending to be Diane, the lawyer, the court, multiple people involved. Did you ever figure out how you were chosen for this?

Jackie
No, I really didn't know. I have no idea.

But then again, with these scams, I can't tell you how many times I've gotten one of these phone calls that says, grandma, I'm in trouble. I need help.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, really?

Jackie
Yes.

And it's more fun because now I just say, is your mother proud of what you're doing?

And they always hang up on me.

Steve
So for those out there, it's Barnstable. If they try to do it again, it's not barnstable.

Megyn Kelly
So di and Brad are safe. No one has handed over any money, thank God, and Steve has saved the day. Now Doug and I decide to have a little fun with our con man, who does not yet know he's been busted.

I called him up with Doug taping the conversation, and what happened next was six minutes of gold. That's next.

I'm Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM. It's your home for open, honest and provocative conversations with the most interesting and important political, legal and cultural figures. Today you can catch the Megyn Kelly show on Triumph, a SiriusXM channel featuring lots of hosts you may know and probably love great people like Doctor Laura, Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, Dave Ramsey, and yours truly, Megyn Kelly. You can stream the Megyn Kelly show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the Sirius XM app. It has ad free music coverage of every major sport, comedy, talk, podcast and more. Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

Brad
Go to siriusxm.com mkshow to subscribe and.

Megyn Kelly
Get three months free.

Brad
That's siriusxm.com mk show and get three.

Megyn Kelly
Months free offer details apply.

All right, I want to take you through my phone call with the scammer now, but to help me walk you through it, I brought in my pal Bill Stanton. He's former NYPD, a private investigator and a security expert who helps us out sometimes on our own security from time to time. Watch this. So I'm gonna, just gonna play the call, okay. That I did with this guy once we were finally on to this. And I would love if we could analyze it as we go. All right. And I can, I can pause it if necessary. Here we go.

Paul
This is Paul.

Megyn Kelly
Paul, hey, it's Megyn Kelly. So I haven't received the bitcoin verification yet. I was using my real name.

He knew who I was, and I had mentioned that I was a public figure.

Didn't stop him one bit.

Brad
Didn't bat an eye.

Megyn Kelly
Not surprised at that. Or are you?

Brad
Well, my guess is he's not from this country. He may be out of the country.

Megyn Kelly
What? He sounds american.

Brad
He does sound american, but I don't know that he fully knew the impact of Megyn Kelly or what was coming.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, he was about to be humiliated.

Brad
Exactly.

Paul
From Horn source.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Is that bitcoin? Whatever that is. Is that bitcoin?

Paul
Yes.

Megyn Kelly
It hasn't, it hasn't come through.

Paul
Any verification from them at all.

Megyn Kelly
No. Is there another way of doing this? Because I'm worried about them sitting there all day.

Paul
Okay, well, did you check your text messages? Is it.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Paul
Does it still say awaiting review?

Megyn Kelly
Yep. There's nothing. Another one didn't come in, so that's the last I have at this point. He's walking me through exactly how to get him the bitcoin. I mean, he's an expert.

Brad
As I. As I was listening to this on the way down here, what your listeners are listening to is a masterclass in three level chess.

It is a mind game that's going on and you handle it phenomenally. Okay, let's go.

Megyn Kelly
Here we go.

Paul
Where are you? Are you located at the machine?

Megyn Kelly
I haven't gone down there yet because I don't have the verification. Don't I need the verification before I can send anything?

Paul
You're going to have to get on the chat and contact them because it could be that maybe the pictures were not legible or something like that. But if you go on coinsource.net, comma, you can actually get on the chat with them and ask them what's the status of your verification?

Megyn Kelly
All right.

I'm worried about them sitting there all day. Is there any other way of doing this?

Paul
I did contact the court and explain to them about, you know, the shutdown there, and they were, you know, it's unconstitutional to keep them there. So we've got enough time to get them out. We just have to try to pay the bails to get them out.

Megyn Kelly
Like, how are they. Is there any way of, like, lowering the bail or getting them out? Just like, for now?

Brad
I love what you're doing here because I call it doing the Columbo. You're playing. You're playing stupid, but you're doing it.

Megyn Kelly
Brilliantly because at this point, I know.

Brad
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And you're. You're. But you're slowly reeling him in, and he doesn't realize. He thinks he's the predator.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Brad
Meanwhile, you're putting your jaws around him.

Megyn Kelly
Like, how serious are these charges?

Paul
Well, they're very serious. I mean, it's a very serious charge.

If we're not for the blood tests, we probably be looking at some jail time.

Megyn Kelly
Did she take one already?

Paul
Yeah, I already requested it. We're just waiting for the result. You know, I'm pretty sure it's gonna come back below the levels because that's what she, you know, she promised me that she was not drinking.

Megyn Kelly
No, there is zero chance that she was drinking. Zero. So this is one of the weird risks he took where he based this whole alleged crime on Diane, drunk driving. And this is an area in which he didn't do his homework because she and Brad don't drink. They just don't drink. It's not their thing. And he. So he took a shot at it. And then everybody from Jackie to Doug to me, we were all like, they don't drink, right? What do you mean? Like, he kind of. But he was like, yeah, you know, I believe her. That's why I'm going to. I'm going to mandate the blood test.

Brad
Well, this character is a combination fortune teller con man, and he's reading everything, right? So he has maybe done dozens, if not hundreds of these calls before. So just like a fortune teller, he's feeling it out, and he needs to make some leaps in order to advance to get to endgame. And like a telemarketer, he has heard so many different responses, and he knows where to put, like, cut and paste. What type of answer?

Megyn Kelly
Yes, yes.

Brad
And that's what you are defeating here. And we'll listen as we go on, as he stumbles like a mental computer glitch, you'll hear it as you get him.

Megyn Kelly
He's so clever because he doesn't get thrown at all by. She doesn't drink. He's like, I'm on your side. I agree. She wasn't drunk. That's why I'm mandating blood tests.

Brad
Right?

Megyn Kelly
I mean, that's smooth. So, once it. Once we pay the bail, how long until they can get out?

Paul
It takes about 45 minutes to an hour for them to be released.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, and where, like, how do we get them?

Paul
Are you going to be coming down to pick them up?

Megyn Kelly
We're not, but we'll find somebody there. Like, they have a friend there who we looped in and he was going to try to help, but I don't know. That didn't work. But he's there, so he can get them.

Paul
Okay, well, yeah. I mean, once you guys pay the bill, you can have them drive down and they can pick him up.

Megyn Kelly
He didn't answer.

Brad
Right. Well, you see, the longer you're talking, the more it's giving him a chance to formulate some bullshit on what to say back to you.

Megyn Kelly
He doesn't know the address of the courthouse.

Brad
Listen, and you are like a cat blocking him off, like a mouse trying to get away. And you keep putting a paw down, then he runs the other way, and then you put a pour down here.

Megyn Kelly
He tried to get out of Dodge and I'm like, I need the address of the jail so I can pick them up. And he's wondering what to say.

Paul
Let me give you the address here. Just a second.

It's 725 Bedford 720.

Megyn Kelly
All right, let me write this down.

Wait, what's. And what's the city?

Bedford.

Okay, and what's the city?

Paul
Stanford.

Megyn Kelly
Stanford. Connecticut.

Paul
Correct.

Megyn Kelly
Paul, they're. They're in Cape Cod.

Paul
You're absolutely right. I'm really sorry. I was confused. I have another case that's in Stanford. It's just been a very long day.

Brad
That was the mental glitch. And this guy is, as I said, dozens, if not hundreds of calls before.

And notice how he maintains his calm. Right, but there's these big polls.

Megyn Kelly
He doesn't hang up. Right there.

Brad
Doesn't hang up because he's invested in you. You are money on the hoof to him right now. He may have ten other calls in private process lined up, but right now, all his focus is to get the money out of you. And every second is a cost benefit analysis, you know? Can I still reel this one into the ball?

Megyn Kelly
Yes.

Brad
Right.

Megyn Kelly
And I think he was either confused because he had another potential fish in Stanford, Connecticut, or it was because Stanford. Or it was because Doug was in Connecticut that day. That was a year that we were commuting our two boys to Connecticut, and our daughter was still going to school in New York. We would split up during the days.

Brad
Right.

Megyn Kelly
And when he spoke with Doug, I think Doug said, I'm in Connecticut. So he got confused.

Brad
Right.

Megyn Kelly
There were too many cities, too many places.

Brad
He was too many balls. Exactly.

Megyn Kelly
Exactly. So where are they?

Paul
I gave you. I gave you the address earlier. Just. It's in Barnstable.

Gave it to your husband.

Megyn Kelly
Meanwhile, actual Cape Codders call it Barnstable.

And he's claiming that he's from there. Yeah.

Brad
Right.

Megyn Kelly
They don't say Barnstable.

Brad
He's getting burned on multiple areas.

Megyn Kelly
He fell down a little on the job here.

Paul
Just a second.

Let me see if she's still there, because it could have been moved. Yeah, it's 3195 Main street.

Megyn Kelly
3195 Main street.

Paul
She's still there.

Megyn Kelly
Okay.

Main street.

Brad
And then.

Megyn Kelly
So what. What's that town?

Paul
Barnstable.

Megyn Kelly
Barnstable.

Okay, and where are you?

Paul
I'm.

Yeah, I'm in Barnstable, but I'm not currently here. I'm in Ohio handling some family business, and I'm going to be back here on Monday.

Megyn Kelly
So why he has to not be in Barnstable? Because he can't receive the money in cash by our friend who's ready to deliver cash to his face, he's got to be someplace else so that we have to wire it. Bitcoin.

Brad
Right. And he adds, like, family business to prey upon, you know, your goodwill and to humanize him. Right. Like, oh, this guy's a regular guy. It's not a confidence man. This is legit.

Megyn Kelly
You can hear him thinking. Like, you can hear the wheels turning. Yes.

Brad
You could hear it grinding.

Megyn Kelly
Right, right.

Brad
And you just keep throwing monkey wrench after monkey wrench.

Megyn Kelly
It's great questions.

Brad
Uh huh.

Megyn Kelly
Right. Like, that can be harder than even, like, confronting with facts.

Brad
Exactly. Exactly.

Megyn Kelly
Are you still a practitioner, or what are you?

Paul
I'm a public defendant. I work for the state bar here.

Megyn Kelly
Massachusetts. In Massachusetts. Okay. Where'd you. Where'd you go to law school? I'm a lawyer, too.

Paul
I went to school in New York. John J. Long.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, really? What year did you graduate?

Paul
I'm sorry?

73.

Megyn Kelly
You graduated law school in 73? You don't sound that old.

Paul
Oh, yeah, I am old.

Megyn Kelly
Literally, I graduated law school in 95. So he'd be 22 years older than.

Brad
I'm 87 and a half years old.

Megyn Kelly
Seriously? I mean, at that point, that would have made him in his mid seventies. He does not sound like he's in his mid seventies.

Brad
And he's a public defender in his mid seventies.

Megyn Kelly
So why did he say that? Why'd he say he was a 73 guy?

Brad
Because in my opinion, you have his mind racing so much.

Right. That was the first number that flew out of his mind.

Megyn Kelly
So I think it's because he knew, like, he was worried I might have gone to John Jay, and he was like, oh, that's funny. Can't pick a year anywhere. I don't know how old she is.

Brad
Right, right.

Megyn Kelly
You know? Cause these are small law schools, right?

Brad
I mean, 73. Jesus.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, he went big. He went two. He had no idea, though. He didn't know how old I was. That's what I think. So the other thing is, you know, $17,000 is a lot of money, and, like, what if I don't get it back?

Paul
What do you mean? You're supposed to get it back once the case is closed or dismissed.

Megyn Kelly
Once it's closed or dismissed.

Paul
Correct.

Megyn Kelly
I mean, I don't. I got it. I got to be honest with you. Like, I'm not that close with Diane. I'm not.

I'm not sure.

Paul
Okay, no problem.

Megyn Kelly
You know, it's a lot of money.

That was it.

Brad
Onto the next call, onto the next victim.

Megyn Kelly
So you don't think I hurt his feelings. You think he was just, like, cut my losses back.

Brad
I cut my loss.

Megyn Kelly
I kind of hoped I hurt him a little, you know, like, aha, I got you.

Brad
You didn't even.

He didn't miss a step, right? You became too much of an impediment to him. And it's on to the easier fish. Think about a predator. Wolves go after the weakest sheep, the slowest, the oldest, the ones most vulnerable. And just to make a point, while we're laughing here, this is done in various machinations every day. Elderly women who are lonely. You know, the lonely Hearts club I've had, you know, through friends and family, I'd say about a baker's dozen cases where women in their sixties and seventies have sold their homes, have taken loans, sent that money, knowing them only a week.

Loneliness is a son of a bitch. Having an open heart is a son of a bitch in this case. So it's a combination of having street smart and cybersense. When these things come in, there's a sense of urgency, and you want to take care of your loved one. And they'll come up with a number, and what they look at is your social media. We've all been guilty of it, some more than others. Where we put everything on the effin Internet.

And think about pictures in front of your house. I could spot your address.

Megyn Kelly
I'm not saying, you know, I never do that.

Brad
I know that. But so many of us do, right? So many tells, the type of car. So for the predator, the cyber predator, they're gathering, whether it's one person or a whole network of people, they'll gather that intel and, like. Well, only my family would know that.

Megyn Kelly
Well, let's talk about that in this case, because that's one of the weirdnesses. Jackie, Doug's 87 year old mother is not on social media, right? Nor is Diane, nor is Brad. Neither one of them. So this guy knew clearly he was targeting an elderly woman, right? And he at least knew her daughter's name because he had a woman call pretending to be her and said, mom, it's Di.

Brad
Right?

Megyn Kelly
So, like how? I don't even know how you figure that out.

Brad
Could they have flipped it? Could she have touted your sister in law? Correct?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah.

Brad
Could she have had her mother, you know, online through social media?

Megyn Kelly
No.

Brad
At mom's 85th? No.

Megyn Kelly
She's not even out. She's not online at all?

Brad
No. Your sister in law isn't?

Megyn Kelly
No.

Brad
Oh, well, you know what, then it may be closer to home. Than we know. You know, most crimes, like, God forbid anything would ever happen to this home, like whether it be burglary, vandalism, it's not from someone across the country. It's the landscaper's cousin. It's someone you know, one or twice removed. Those people you got, I'll bet him. Don't worry, I'll bet him.

Megyn Kelly
Cause that's what's really disturbing, right? They knew some facts about Jack, just enough about Diane to think it's legit. They knew Diane was in Cape Cod.

Brad
Right?

Megyn Kelly
So, I mean, that's another thing, right? Not online.

Brad
Right?

Megyn Kelly
So it's actually, I have no idea. But you're right. Maybe it's somebody who somehow knew the family well.

Brad
That's the only way. Either one or two people removed or the Internet. It's been my experience.

Or someone may have reached out. We don't know what we don't know. We don't know if your sister in law had reached out on some service.

Megyn Kelly
Or if they called Jackie earlier under a different pretense to do info gathering.

Brad
And they gather, and then it's just in the conveyor belt when their time comes up. Okay, we have all this information. They're good to go. They're in the hopper. Let's go.

Megyn Kelly
That's another good warning. Like, if somebody calls, and I think most younger people know this, but especially for our older listeners, if somebody calls looking for information, asking personal information about your family members names, anything that obviously people know, don't give your Social Security.

Brad
Number, they'll ask everything, you know, these surveys. And so, like, I'll entertain some of these calls just to see, like, you know, where is this going to go? And they want everything I go. Yeah, Nunya. None of you f. Ing business, you.

Megyn Kelly
Know, called the wrong guy.

Well, I guess that's true. He must have gotten it from her. Or because you said, maybe he's out of the country. I just feel like he was an american. But that doesn't mean he wasn't sitting there in India making these calls.

I don't know if he was close to them or not, but that I hadn't considered that he had already done research potentially on Jackie because she wasn't that savvy to this prior to this whole event.

Brad
Yes.

Megyn Kelly
All right, let's speak about the. How elaborate this was.

You know, there was an article, I think it was the Forbes business columnist recently who did this whole article about how she'd been defrauded out of $85,000 cash. She put it in a shoebox over just the course of 8 hours, this guy convinced her to do it. And this is a financial columnist, so, you know, relatively sophisticated, but gave up the dough. And he, too, had multiple people working with him on the fraud. This guy, I think, had at least two others.

He had a fake courthouse number. He had hold music that he, that.

Brad
Tells me it's more than a one man band. Like, let's just like, as a, as a, as a sort of an example is this show.

You're at the top of the masthead, but there's a whole infrastructure behind that beautiful face. What's going on? You bring your game, but you have your people, your producers, your bookers, your everything.

And to the viewer, it seems so seamless, but there's a lot to make it happen. Same things with these confidence people. They're gathering information instead of producers. They may have researchers gathering backstory instead of celebrities or politicians. They're gathering it on everyday people. They could do an easy journeyman's financial assessment.

Is that house paid for?

What's the type of cause do they have? Do they have that discretionary cash, or are they alone? Are they desperate enough? Do they have family? These are all the stress points, if you will, that these confidence men that these teams will look at, and they use psychology. They listen. It happened to me, and I'm in the business. I was in a different form. I'm on my computer. My computer got hacked, and I was so desperate, I didn't want them getting my shit. So I'm on it. And a little voice, I called up Andy, the guy we use that's helped you in the past, and Andy's like, discontinue right now. I'm like, but I'm gonna lose my. He goes, I'm fucking telling you. Get off. And I was that old granny. Yeah, right. About to give away all my shit.

Megyn Kelly
Oh, it's.

Brad
There is no socioeconomic intelligence quotient that makes you immune. It's been my experience sometimes the smarter you are, you know, you're so confident in who you are. Oh, this would never happen to me. I would be able to disseminate the B's.

Megyn Kelly
Yes.

Brad
And they hit that pay button sooner than someone from the street.

Megyn Kelly
Well, we love the piece of the story that ultimately it was the Cape Cod whaling guy who was like, I'm going by their house.

I don't know what these people are saying. And he figured it out. He's the hero of the story.

Brad
Ten for that.

Megyn Kelly
Okay, so what about the targeting of the elderly? Because that does seem to be a theme in a lot of these.

Brad
Yes, yes. What they'll do, again, they go on people's nature or that they could lose their home.

Megyn Kelly
How do they find out who's elderly and how to call them? Like, do they get a sponsorship from the AARP or one of those magazines? Not to bash the AARP, but I'm just saying, like, is there a way of getting people's numbers who are old?

Brad
Yeah. Well, you can go, there are services where you can get demographics of people. So, like, my house was up for sale, like, you mass exodus out of New York, and I had all these people. Like, how the f, do you know, how do you have my cell number? Number one. Right. And how do you know my house is for sale? Oh, we'll pay cash. Oh, can I show your house? Because there are services that you pay into, and you get some certain demographics. So for me, I'm selling my house. There are elderly groups. If she ever signed on to any AARP or some type of association, those lots of, you know, the intelligence gathering of who you are, what you are, what demographic you are. The same way advertisers, voters, like the campaign. Yes.

Megyn Kelly
The campaigns are getting all that information right now.

Brad
Same way, you know, certain demographics want that information for sales. They get it for marks to mark you as a victim.

Megyn Kelly
They can find out about us.

Brad
And it's scary, and it's the basic psychology. You see, when we're in our home, you're an older, elderly lady. You may be widowed, you're all alone. And your primary thing is to go to the market to get that sale and come home. You're hit out of blue.

Megyn Kelly
That's right.

Brad
Your hit out of the blue with a member of your family that's in distress, and you could hit that button and you're gonna be walked through it to get them out of trouble. That's what you live for. And they know that there are so.

Megyn Kelly
Many people who are in this exact position right now, and it's like, I think my audience is in general, they're a lot younger than 87. So I urge everybody, speak to your parent, speak to your great aunt, speak to anybody who's in this age group. And speak to your friends, too, because it's not just the elderly. And let them know that this, this is out there, this kind of thing.

Brad
Whether it's this particular one, whether it's, they hack into your computer, whether you're on one of those dating sites, they go to the basic emotion and need and insecurity of people and just realize, take that breath, take a step back, because nothing is unless you're in a car crash where you have to hit that brake, you know, hit the break in your mind, hit that cyber break, hit that telephone break and ask questions and say, give me number. Let me get back to you. It can wait ten minutes. And that could save you a whole bunch of money. A whole bunch of.

Megyn Kelly
And I will say in that fraud that I mentioned that the business reporter wrote up about that happened to her and in this attempted fraud of us, one of the things that she didn't do and that we didn't do and should have done was to do an independent Google search of the number of the courthouse, or in her case, I don't remember. That was like that. She said, they said she was getting investigated by the federal government, but whoever they say is the third party just hang up and do a Google search. Don't call their number. Call. You find out the number. You make an independent call to see if this is real and get the fraudsters number. So you can then call and go.

Brad
One step further because there are apps I can call you and it looks like it's coming from Doug's number.

Yeah. That technology exists out there. That's rudimentary. Yes. I can call you right now. And it would ring Doug's number and you would answer, whoa. So there are different levels to this. And, you know, but if I'm dialing.

Megyn Kelly
Out, I mean, like, that's. That's the empowerment is if you are dialing out on your.

Brad
Then you take.

Right, right. Like, I had Amazon. I had an Amazon scam and it was online. It came over a text. Right. You know, did you charge this on Amazon? Click here.

Fuck that. I got on the phone with Amazon direct, you know, and I'm like, is this what you do? They go, absolutely not.

Megyn Kelly
Oh.

Brad
They go. I go, is this a thing? They go, that's a thing.

Megyn Kelly
Don't you get? I get attempted frauds at me every day via email. Click on this. It's like I usually just forward them to Abby and she deals with it or, like, the scams, and she puts these blockers on my phone.

But it's amazing because most people don't have an Abby, and most people haven't had this happen to them. And they're not living on guard. They're actually still trusting, loving people, unlike us cynical bastards.

And even as cynical as we are.

Brad
We always got shaken in, let me tell you.

Listen, essentially, we're good people. We care about people. But f that. Like, I had a lady. I was in midtown. This was a number of years ago, middle aged, well dressed woman, and she hit me with the gasoline on my car.

And I was fascinated that this woman was well dressed, well spoken, and she's hitting me up. I said, I'll walk you to your car right now. Oh, I really. And then she just walked away. So they prey, you know, upon your good nature. And again, you know, many people don't, haven't been raised from the streets, you know, but it's incumbent to have those street smarts. And bad guys don't necessarily dress up like in the old Batman bad guy t shirt.

Megyn Kelly
No.

Brad
Now it's on the Internet, and the cyber world is a whole other animal. And just remember, always press the brakes and question, question, question.

Megyn Kelly
Yes. You're not surprised the cops weren't interested.

That's how they get away with it, though.

Brad
It's low level. It's low on their priority list. You know, many police departments aren't sophisticated in tracking this down. It's more an FBI issue, actually.

Megyn Kelly
And this crossed state lines.

Brad
Right. You know, that's why it's more of an FBI issue. And we know, you know, they have their own problems.

Megyn Kelly
I had all my evidence. I had his number. I had the court number.

Brad
Let me tell you something. You are turning out this was actually your first undercover. We've done another undercover.

Megyn Kelly
We've done an undercover.

Brad
Since you are proving to be quite, you know, I thought my initials were b's. You're getting very good at this, MEgyn Kelly. You're getting a little bit too good.

Megyn Kelly
I do. Look, I mean, like the elderly. I love my Matlock. I love my Jessica murder, she wrote, I aspire to great things. Bill Stanton. Thank you.

Brad
Ten four. Thank you for having me.

Megyn Kelly
Thanks to my family, Doug, Di, and Brad, my mother in law, Jackie. Thanks to Steve for helping us bring this story to you. I mean, can you believe this? Like, isn't that a nuts story? It's cray Cray.

And honestly, Doug and I have had so many conversations about it. I remember we had dinner with, with all these friends. It was still the COVID lockdowns, and we sneaked at dinner, not, sorry to tell you, at our apartment, because crazy Andrew Cuomo, still trying to tell us we weren't allowed to do that kind of thing. And we told our friends this story that night. And everyone was riveted, right? Because no one could believe this crap. And I know what you're thinking. As soon as you hear crypto, you're like, wait a minute. And we, too, were like, what?

But it was just the COVID weirdness, the fact that we had spoken with the court, we thought ourselves, and the fact that we hadn't yet even thought to question Jackie's telling us she had spoken with Diane herself and that she was really in trouble. Like, that didn't even enter our minds that that piece of the story might not be true. So anyway, words of caution in this story for everyone. And honestly, you need to know this, right? Because what if this happened to your mom or you? And now you'll know. If, like, if we hadn't told this story, you might not know. Maybe you would be hoodwinked. I don't know. It can happen. Trust me.

So we decided to tell you the story even though we knew you might mock us a little because we want to help others. And we learned a lot, too, ourselves. I think all of us did. Hope all of you learned something from today's show and from fraud week all week, because sadly, there are fraudsters out there working hard every day to steal your money or something precious. And most of these never see the light of day. Right? They just happen privately because people are too embarrassed to talk about it or scared. Yeah, they're humiliated. And I get it. But there's no reason to be humiliated if you get defrauded by one of these losers. Or almost defrauded in our case. What does it say about you? It says you believe in human nature, you believe in others. You probably have a kind heart. You're probably a trusting soul. Those are not bad things, right? But slightly jaded. Trusting soul, but slightly jaded. I think that's what we're going for. So that's why we shared, and that's why we hope everybody listens and shares and talks about these kinds of things more and more so we can help each other. All right. I love to hear from all of you. Do you have a fraud story? Have you been inspired or helped by our fraud weekend week?

Email me at Megan Megy nagainkelly.com. i'll definitely be reading. We do read the emails. I see them every week and I love going through them. I read them on Mondays. We get them collected from the week before. And there's nothing quite like hearing from all of you. So would love for you to email me. For now. My family and I are off next week on a family vacay. But we are back live on June 24, and there's going to be plenty to do that week, as there should be. The first presidential debate of the 2024 election contest. See you then.

Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No B's, no agenda, and no fear.