Bonus Episode | Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

This episode delves into the horrific crime committed against twelve-year-old Jocelyn Nungarre, discussing the legal challenges and emotional turmoil surrounding the case.

1. Jocelyn Nungarre was lured, assaulted, and murdered, which was detailed in court, causing significant emotional distress for her family.
2. Legal debates surrounding the application of the death penalty in Texas and the qualifications for capital murder under new state laws.
3. Challenges in the legal system, including the speed and effectiveness of DNA testing and evidence processing.
4. The emotional toll on families and communities when dealing with violent crimes against children.
5. The need for legislative reforms to address loopholes and deficiencies in prosecuting crimes involving minors.

1: Introduction

Nancy Grace introduces the case of Jocelyn Nungarre, setting the stage for a detailed discussion on the complexities of the legal system when dealing with child murder cases. Nancy Grace: "Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. Thank you for being with us."

2: The Crime Details

The episode dives deep into the horrific details of the crime, including the manner in which Jocelyn was abducted and killed. Nancy Grace: "This victim was found, you know, bound and without clothing from the waist down in the water."

3: Legal Challenges

Discussion on the challenges faced by the legal system, including whether the perpetrators are eligible for the death penalty. Nancy Grace: "There is another condition under your law that your legislature has managed not to gut yet that says if the death occurs, the murder occurs during a kidnap, that qualifies for the death penalty."

4: Emotional Impact

The emotional repercussions on the victim's family and the community are discussed, highlighting the intense courtroom reactions. Jocelyn Nungare's family member: "Slain twelve year old girl Jocelyn Nungarre's family lashing out in court as the two men accused of killing their daughter are arraigned."

5: Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the broader implications of the case and the need for justice for Jocelyn. Nancy Grace: "And now it's my job to make sure it continues to happen."

• Stay Informed: Understand and discuss the legal processes in your community to advocate for effective justice systems.
• Support Victims' Families: Engage with and support organizations that help families affected by violent crimes.
• Educate on Safety: Teach children about safety and awareness to help prevent such tragedies.
• Participate in Community Watch: Become active in local community watch programs to help deter crimes.
• Advocate for Legal Reform: Work towards legislative changes that close loopholes in child protection laws.

Today, we'd like to direct your attention to another podcast, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
In this episode, Nancy covers the heartbreaking case of Jocelyn Nungaray, a 12-year-old girl whose murder has shocked the community. The two suspects, who entered the U.S. illegally, were released by Border Patrol a month before the tragedy. Both face capital murder charges with a $10 million bond.

People

Nancy Grace, Jocelyn Nungarre

Companies

None

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

Graphic descriptions of violence and assault

Megyn Kelly
Join me, Doctor Panico, with Cindy Lauper and chef Michelle Bernstein to talk about plaque psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, the potential connection and risk of developing permanent joint damage.

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Megyn Kelly
Hey everyone, it's Megyn Kelly. Today I have something a little different for you. I want to tell you about another podcast, crime stories, hosted by my friend, the brilliant Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor and used her tv show to find missing people, fugitives on the run, and unseen clues. She has devoted her life to helping catch and put bad guys behind bars. She's on the side of the victims and is unabashed about it. I love her. Now she uses her hit podcast to do the same. Enjoy an episode of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace here in this podcast feed and subscribe to her show if you.

Nancy Grace
Want more crime stories with Nancy Grace.

This isn't right.

The family of little Jocelyn, just twelve years old, erupts in open court when they are sitting there hearing the facts laid out in court that this little Texas girl, their jocelyn, is lured under a bridge, stripped, bound with her hands behind her back, sex assaulted and strangled.

I guess they did erupt this, as the prosecutor says. I don't know if we can seek the death penalty. You can.

Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.

Jocelyn Nungare's family member
Slain twelve year old girl Jocelyn Nungare's family lashing out in court as the two men accused of killing their daughter are arraigned. I hope they kill your children.

Nancy Grace
I can't imagine the pain, the anger, the hurt that this family is feeling. As we learn, the defendants may not even be exposed to the death penalty. There's not a chance of the death penalty. What is the family supposed to think? They erupt in open court as they find out the horrific details surrounding the death of their girl, twelve year old Jocelyn. Listen, this victim was found, you know, bound and without clothing from the waist down in the water. And we just think that there's a good possibility, we hope that there's evidence that remains to be tested. I'm still fighting for her. And just remember that she was a very special little girl that deserves her justice. And I know she's gonna make a difference in this world for all children.

And now it's my job to make sure it continues to happen. Why is it on the mom? Why is it her job to make sure that there is justice? And I gotta go to this panel with me, an all star panel. But first to Corey Peel, investigative reporter, KPRC two, in Houston. Corey, did I just hear the prosecutor, whom I've always respected up until a few moments ago, state she was found, paws unclothed. Paws unclothed. Talk about putting perfume on the pig. Airbrushing, whitewashing. Unclothed.

I could be a changing room in Nordstrom's and be unclothed. This girl had 1212, had her hands bound behind her.

She was forced under a bridge by two guys she doesn't know, adults.

And she was stripped. She was stripped from the waist down. Her pants were off. I mean, to hear OG say it. Unclothed? What?

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, these details were absolutely heartbreaking, hearing in court. And, you know, at this point, they were still kind of skirting around the information on if she was sexually assaulted or not. They're saying that they're still waiting on test results to come back to prove that she was, in fact, sexually assaulted. But those details, absolutely heartbreaking to hear in court, especially for Jocelyn's family. And as you can imagine, emotions were high. Yesterday we heard a family member scream out at one of the suspects, calling him a murderer and killer, as they were just in disbelief over this tragic and horrific crime could happen to their little girl.

Nancy Grace
You're hearing Corey Peel, investigative reporter, KPRC two, in Houston. I want to go to Andy Khan, a longtime friend and colleague, director of victim services, crime Stoppers in Houston. What in the world is going on? Hey, New York, let me see the graphic of how you can get the death penalty in Texas, because I'm pretty sure if you commit an intentional murder, which strangulation death is, this is a manual strangulation by hands while. And then they name a host of felonies, including kidnapping. Kidnapping. Kidnapping does not mean I bundle you in a trunk and I drive you 100 miles and hold you hostage. Kidnapping can mean taking you 1ft or one inch. It's called under the law asportation.

If that child is moved even one inch under the law against her will, that is a kidnap, and therefore qualifies for a death penalty.

Andy Khan, what is going on in your hometown?

Andy Khan
You have a lot of convoluted laws that were passed years ago involving capital murder of anyone who murders a child. And in 2019, they passed a law. Our legislators passed a law removing the death penalty provision from anyone who murdered a child from the ages of eleven to 15, unless it was done in conjunction of another offense. I don't think there's any if, ands, or buts about it. She was taken against her will, more than likely sexually assaulted. But let's keep in mind, this is early. I would.

It's gonna happen.

Nancy Grace
Andy, I know that your politicians and the Texas legislature have gutted the rules for aggravating circumstances for the death penalty and many other jurisdictions. When a child under 1414 and under is murdered, that automatically qualifies for a jury to look at the death penalty, whether they give it or not. That's on the jury.

But forget about the age requirement. Your legislature, your Texas legislature changed the rule when now the child has to be under ten for it to automatically apply.

That doesn't fit in this scenario because Jocelyn is twelve. However, listen to me. There is another condition under your law that your legislature has managed not to gut yet that says if the death occurs, the murder occurs during a kidnap, that qualifies for the death penalty. So what's the problem? I don't get it.

Andy Khan
I don't get it either.

My best guess is, is this is a slow moving scenario. They want to get first things done first, and then eventually they'll look at adding the death penalty. You know, there's a reason we have the death penalty in the state of Texas. We're, quote, known as the death penalty capital of the world. And if these two defendants don't fit the criteria for the death penalty, you might as well just gut it all the way around.

Nancy Grace
Guys, we are hearing that the death penalty is not being sought. And I'm not advocating pro or con right now. I am saying that if this case does not qualify for the death penalty to be at least presented to a jury, who will they make the decision? Not the prosecutor. But it's not going to even be given as an alternative to this jury because neither defendant has confessed to raping the girl. What, I've got to wait for them to confess? If I had to wait for every defendant, every killer, every rapist, every trial molester to confess before they get sentenced, that's never gonna happen. The Fulton county jail would still be full of the thousands of people I prosecuted because nobody is gonna confess. But this is what they did say. You tell me what you think happened. Listen.

Prosecutor
Johan Jose Raniel Martinez and Franklin Jose Peno Ramos are both charged with capital murder. Pena Ramos tells police he tried to convince Ronyl Martinez to stop the attack on Jocelyn, but he refused, telling Peno Ramos he had to finish what he started. Nugget's hands are tied behind her back. Her feet are bound. Ronald Martinez climbs on top of Jocelyn, covers her mouth and strangles her to death. Ronyo Martinez admits to tying Jocelyn up and tossing her body in the bayou, but claims he didn't kill her. Pena Ramos claims he only kissed the twelve year old and denies any wrongdoing.

Nancy Grace
Doctor Bethany Marshall you know, I'm a teetotaler, but this is driving me to the bottle.

DOctor Bethany Marshall with me, renowned psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills@drbethanymarshall.com. dot DOCTOR BETHANY I've had so many defendants and co defendants who will tell you the story about what happened, their version, but they leave out the critical moment. For instance, Doctor Bethany and I were robbing a bank and I said, don't kill anybody. Bethany and she went in and we both had guns. And I turned my head for just a moment and I heard a gunshot, but I didn't see anything. And when I turned back around, two bank tellers were dead and bleeding out in the floor, that one critical moment somehow gets fuzzy. And here we see both defendants, one claiming he, quote, only kissed twelve year old jocelyn while her hands were tied behind her back and her pants and underwear were stripped off her body just before one of them crawled on top of the girl and strangled her, saying, quote, he had to finish what he started.

And all the other one did was kiss her. Who in the h ell kisses a twelve year old little girl tied up under a bridge where their pants and underwear stripped off? Who's kissing her?

Dr. Bethany Marshall
There's so many things wrong with this narrative and also so many tell tale tell signs that they are lying, first of all, minimizing by saying I kissed her.

Criminals always minimize, and as you pointed out, being so vague about the details, sometimes they throw in too many details. But most likely in this case, they're leaving out a lot of horrific details that are going to come come out as this court case continues. And also minimizing the fact that she is a twelve year old little girl. And also, the language is so inaccurate, Nancy, let's take out rape, assault and kidnap, and let's put torture at the top of the list.

Nancy Grace
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

Let me go to another friend and longtime colleague, Doctor Kendall Crowns, chief medical examiner. That's not easy. You fight your way to get in medical school. You fight your way through medical school, you do a residency, it's dog eat dog, everybody wants your spot. And he somehow climbs his way to the top to become the chief medical examiner in Tarrant county. That's Fort Worth. That's this neck of the woods. Also lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns. I've prosecuted literally thousands of cases. Thousands, all felonies. When you are prosecuting and you didn't experience this, you have to be a machine. You cannot think about the details of the case or I would, I would crack if I had to think about it. But as I'm listening to Doctor Bethany talk, I'm wondering if you go through this as you perform autopsies on little girls, little children.

To think about what this girl, twelve years old, you know, my girl, she's about that big, beautiful, just like this little girl to be dragged under a bridge in the middle of the night.

Don't you know she was crying and begging for them to stop what they were doing, to yank her pants and underwear off, to tie her, bind her with her hands behind her back.

And one of them claims, I only kissed her. What?

And with the marks on her back.

This girl was raped.

This girl was tortured.

The last thing she saw was the dark of the night under a bridge where these two guys, she's adult males she had never met before assaulting her.

Then probably the inability to breathe as one of them crawled on top of her and manually strangled the life out of her.

Then leaving her semi naked, throw her into the water and video Kim catches them.

Doctor Kendall crowns just walking away like nothing had happened.

When you perform an autopsy, do you let yourself even think about these things? Or do you just become a robot and do it?

Dr. Kendall Crowns
You can't get emotionally charged when doing your work because that's going to cause you to miss things. So you go through the story, the information you have at the time before the autopsy begins, and then you process the case and go through it. And you don't get emotionally wrapped up in all the particulars of how horrific the incident that resulted in this individual's death is, because if you do, you can't do this.

Jocelyn Nungare's family member
Lured under a bridge, stripped naked to the waist, bound, and then assaulted for 2 hours, new court documents detail horrific allegations.

Nancy Grace
Not only do we learn what happened under that bridge to little Jocelyn, we learn what happened afterward.

Prosecutor
Listen, just two days after Jocelyn Nungry's body is found, police say Ramos cut off an ankle monitor he was fitted with when he crossed the border illegally at El Paso on May 28. The discarded ankle monitor was found days ago. Ramos, working in construction, asks his boss for extra cash so he can skip town. But instead of getting cash, the boss calls the police and Ramos is arrested.

Nancy Grace
Straight out to Coralie Peel, investigative reporter, KPRC two, Houston.

I hope what OG is saying, I'm just interpreting here, is that when the rape kit comes back, I'm going to go to you, Doctor Kindle crowns, about how a rape kit is performed and really how long it takes. It doesn't take this long to get a DNA sample. It doesn't. So I'm not sure what they're waiting on, because if there's DNA from one of the defendants to show that she was raped, if you find sperm from one defendant, they're both going to be charged with rape. Because while one was raping her, the other one was standing by, what, laughing, holding her down? Oh, h e double lno. They're both going to be charged with that and both be death penalty qualified.

Corlee Peel, again, investigative news reporter, KPRC two, Houston, where this happened. Let me understand how these two were caught. I understand we've got surveillance video, and the police did an incredible job of putting together a montage of the, let's see the 711. The 711 video surveillance video.

You can see as the surveillance video goes on, you see her walking the little boyfriend. She's calling on her cell phone reports, hearing two adults in the back. Look at that little thing. She can't weigh over 90 pounds, if that. These two, there are the animals.

There they are.

And I normally don't use that phrase, but what they did to this little girl is like an animal out in the jungle. And they approach her. They approach her, apparently asking for directions.

She walks along with them because they apparently lived near each other, did not know each other.

They're walking along, and the next thing you know, she's under a bridge, bound, being raped. So Corley Peele, how do they get caught? The incredible surveillance montage that reveals everything. I just told you. You see them taking her under a bridge and then walking away, like, okay, that's done. But then in addition to the montage, witnesses emerge.

Megyn Kelly
That's right. I mean, those photos were a central in this case.

As soon as the men saw their photos being plastered across the country, all over social media and all the news, they got scared. So one of the men, Martinez there, he actually shaved his beard. And he, apparently, prosecutors found on his phone that he was trying to research ways on how to leave the country, how to get out. But it's really interesting, because Franklin Pena, he actually called his boss asking for help, asking to gather some money together so he could get away. He told his boss that someone was killed. He was in an, he was in an issue that he needed to get out of. The boss thought that was very suspicious.

Nancy Grace
Okay, hold on. Coralie pill again.

You got me drinking from the fire hydrant. You know, so many facts, and I'm trying to ride as quickly as I can. Could you back it up just a little bit and I'll catch up?

I wish I knew shorthand. I don't. Okay, go.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah. So basically, long story short, he calls 911 or the boss that the construction company calls police. And that's how police were ultimately able to track down both men at their apartment complex and take them into custody. And I talked to prosecutors at that press conference, and I said, you know, was this boss the reason why they were captured? And they said, that is one of the reasons why. Just because they have received hundreds of tips over that course of that week while they were on the run. But again, they got scared after these photos were released and people were looking for them.

Nancy Grace
And now Corlee Peele from KPRC two is telling us more that when these photos began to populate on tv, people were seeing them.

Their friends, who knew them saw the tv, and they asked the boss, these two defendants asked their boss. One of them asked for an advance in money, said somebody had died and they needed to get out of the jurisdiction.

You know, when I see a broadcast on tv or somebody calls me and gives me a tip about a murder, I don't try to leave the country.

They did. What about it?

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Those are indicative of guilt, Nancy, these guys knew what, they were in trouble. They knew people were gonna see the advertisement, the warnings on tv, and they knew that they had to leave the country or leave the state as soon as possible.

They're criminals. They're animals that's what they do. They run and they flee.

Jocelyn Nungare's family member
Jocelyn Nungare fought back, prosecutors say, leaving scratches and bite marks on one of her attackers, still visible at the time of his arrest.

Nancy Grace
Bite marks.

Let's talk about bite marks.

Joining me, Corley Peele, investigative reporter, KPRC two, Houston.

Corley, I want to talk about the injuries to not only the two defendants. Do you know when we first started talking, almost got sick to my stomach as you were describing everything, because when I was talking to Doctor Kendall Kranz about letting your mind go to where this was that night and what the little girl lived through, what Jocelyn lived through just before her death, while her mom is snoozing away, no idea that anything's happening to her baby. But I now want to talk about the evidence and get my mind back in the middle of the road and out of the weeds. Tell me about the injuries on her and the two defendants.

Megyn Kelly
Yeah, heartbreaking information that we received in court this week. Apparently from what we heard from prosecutors that Jostin was found with cuts on her body and scratches, as well as she was found bound and tied underneath that bridge. And we also learned that Martinez Renjel, he was also found with bite marks and scratches on him. So when he was arrested, so very heart wrenching information to hear from prosecutors as they release that evidence. And especially hard for her family to hear because she's only twelve years old. No family should have to hear that a little girl had to endure that type of horrific.

Nancy Grace
I don't want us to gloss over the truth. And here's the truth. Two illegal venezuelan migrants are now accused of murdering a twelve year old little Houston girl. Andy Khan, listen up, you're next. Under a bridge.

According to prosecutors, they strip her naked, that's from the waist down, assaulted her for 2 hours.

2 hours.

This twelve year old girl was assaulted. Assaulted. What does that mean? Raped. That's what that mean. And one of them has the audacity to tell me, I just kissed her. You kiss a twelve year old little girl tied up under a bridge, half naked, assaulted her for 2 hours, allegedly binding her not only by her hands behind her back during the rape, her feet were also bound, as doctor Bethany Marshall accurately pointed out, and her back was covered in cuts.

What does that tell you? Andy Cajon. Her back was covered in cuts.

Andy Khan
Nancy, this is a real life Texas chainsaw massacre. What happened to Jocelyn? The only way I can describe what happened to her when you ask people, well, what happened exactly is if you watch a National Geographic show and you see what lions do to gazelles. And that's what these two lions did to this poor child right here. It is an absolute bloodbath, what happened to her. I've spoken with Jocelyn's family. I've met them, I've talked with them. I can't imagine the pain that they're going through, through. Yet at the same time, we're also going to make Jocelyn Nungery a catalyst for change. I know there's a lot going on right now, whether they're going to be seeking the death penalty.

Nancy Grace
Andy Khan. Too soon.

Too soon to talk about how this is all somehow going to end up being good and her rape and murder is going to be a callous for change.

You know, I don't normally say this to you, Andy Carr, but screw that.

I don't want to hear how somehow we're going to turn this lemon into lemonade.

Catalyst for change.

B's con, what are you saying? And I asked you what these injuries meant and you skirted it. You did not answer the question. The question was, what do these injuries on her back mean? Do I have to spell it out for you?

Andy Khan
It means that she was tortured. She was tortured, she was raped, she was strangled, she was kidnapped. And by God, the death penalty is going to be sought in this case. That is no ifs, ands or buts.

Nancy Grace
From my perspective, doctor Bethany Marshall, you, as I have worked with so many children and adults that were raped or sodomized as children, and what the adults tell me is that the worst thing about it was the feeling of helplessness. Powerlessness how some of them, actually, I didn't know about this phenomenon until an adult female victim of child molestation told me about it, that she would actually disembodied and she could look down at her body as her father was raped. Her and her mother sided with the father and pretended she didn't know anything about it. It went on for years. Okay, you have to go with me down this dark tunnel because I'm going to tell you what happened.

This little girl, while bound with her hands behind her and stripped, was forced down on the ground and was raped for 2 hours.

Then one of the defendants climbed on top of her and manually strangled her.

And then they throw her body, likely face down into a bayou.

That's what happened to this girl.

She should be practicing her cello or what instrument she was playing. She should be enjoying summer, jumping in the apartment complex pool, playing with her friends, going to get ice cream, talking to her little bf boyfriend on the phone.

But that's what happened to her. That is what those injuries tell me. And there's no way around it. I don't care how much everybody on this panel wants to skirt away from it. That is what happened. She was raped in the dirt, on the ground, under a bridge by two adult males while her hands were tied behind her back. That's what happened.

Dr. Bethany Marshall
And Nancy, if I could add to that, there was a moment before all this happened when these guys asked her for directions where she felt useful, she wanted to help them. And then for anyone who's listening, who's ever been in an accident, and all of a sudden, you know, things have turned. There was that dawning of realization when they take her under the bridge that something really, really bad is going to happen. They bind her hands and her legs and at that point she may not even know what is about to befall her, but on some level she knows she's going to die. They take their pants off. We're talking about them taking her pants off. Let's think about two grown men taking their clothing off in front of a little girl. We don't even know if she's ever seen a naked man before. And all those cuts along her back, they threw her on the ground. This was under a bridge. I picture know, empty aluminum cans, glass, you know, all the debris we see under, under bridges, they threw her on that debris. And as they were raping her and thrusting themselves into her again and again, her back was scraping along the ground. They didn't rape her once. Twice. These men raped her multiple times, each one looking on as the other one did it. That is animalistic behavior, Nancy. Do you think women would do that to a little boy? No, it's not just the rape, it's the cruelty. It's the total lack of regard for what was happening to her body. And Nancy, these guys, I think, were drunk and substance abusing. So this does not exonerate them, but it takes it a whole level worse where they are just treating her like a sack of potatoes.

Nancy Grace
And the control room is reminding me in my earthen. These two illegal immigrants charged with the murder of a twelve year old girl under the eyes of lady justice are innocent until proven guilty.

Crime stories with Nancy Grace two suspects.

Jocelyn Nungare's family member
One claims he only kissed Jocelyn and tried to stop the attack as his friend climbed on top of the little girl, strangling her.

Nancy Grace
Tried to stop the attack. How does it make any sense? Everything. Why am I trying to apply logic to an illogical situation? Why am I trying to make sense about what these two are saying, because it's all lies. All lies. DNA doesn't lie. Circumstantial evidence doesn't lie. This little girl did not bind herself at the hands and feet, scratch her back up on the ground, take off her own pants and underwear, and fling herself into the water. Okay, they did it. And anything they say is a lie. It's like the devil.

Whatever he says, it's a lie. It doesn't matter.

It's a lie. They're lying.

Now, we know in the last hours, the family has been subjected to hearing the facts the way we've been talking about them. No mother wants to hear this. I don't even want to hear it about another child, much less this mom hearing it about her own child. And there was an explosion in the courtroom. Not the first time. Listen, oldest sister of Errol, Lindsay, whatever your name is, say I'm mad. This is how you act when you are out of control.

I don't want to ever see my mother have to go through this again.

Never. Jeffrey. Jeffrey's out of control.

Don't kill.

Megyn Kelly
You.

Nancy Grace
Wish she had gotten her hands around his neck. And of course, we all know about our friend Mark class. His daughter Polly was kidnapped during a little spend the night party at her place in the middle of the night. I don't even say the defendant's name out loud. He took Polly, he raped her, he assaulted her and he murdered her. And in court class, there's Polly class lunges for the killer and tries to strangle him right there.

In another case, a martial arts expert molested a little boy.

And when he was extradited back to Louisiana and he came off the plane, the dad shot him in the head. Later acquitted. But why are people suggesting that the family of Jocelyn misbehaved in the courtroom? They didn't misbehave. The two defendants misbehaved, according to police. To Indycon, director of victim services. They're in Houston.

Do you blame them?

Andy Khan
No, absolutely not. I mean, I've been in the courtrooms where families have gotten up and have yelled. I've been in a courtroom where a bailiff whispered to me and said, I'll let the father of the young girl that was murdered if he goes over the rail, I'll give him a few minutes before I pull him off. No, nobody blames them for anything that happened. I don't blame them for unleashing as well. I would probably do the same. This is the worst possible scenario you can imagine this family is undergoing right now. Jocelyn is everybody's daughter. She is everybody's sister. She is everybody's niece. This is not just a Houston issue. It's not just a Texas issue. She has become the national issue for what happens when you murder, rape and strangle and kidnap a twelve year old little girl.

Nancy Grace
You know, Andy, again, I consider you a friend. We've worked together for many, many years. But does your mouth ever get tired of just saying the same thing? Blah, blah, blah. She's the poster girl for filling the blank. She's a catalyst for change. She represents every girl.

Really?

Then why do these people keep coming into our country and committing murders? And not just them, other perps? You see it over and over. Repeat offenders preying on victims younger, less cunning, less powerful than they are. And they walk free and then they do it again.

A catalyst for change.

This is one in a string of many. Do I have to name them off? There's Lacon Riley, there's Molly Tibbets, there's Rachel Moran. He goes on and on. For Pete's sake, man.

Second verse, same as the first.

Andy Khan
That's why I'm here, to do that, to make sure that what happened with her, at least we can make the attempt that it doesn't happen to somebody else. That's the least we can do in her honor and in her memory. And that's what we're going to do.

Nancy Grace
You know what, Andy Cohn? You're right. I'm sorry. You just happen to be the target of my anger and frustration about what happened to this girl.

Doctor Kendall crowns. How are we going to prove she was raped? How does it happen? And that medical examiner, darn well being, dotting his I's and crossing his t's as he or she performs this rape kit.

Dr. Kendall Crowns
So proving a sexual assault, you can look for damage to the vagina, the anus. Usually it's tearing, contusions or bruises, abrasions or scratches from the forceful penetration.

And then you can also do a sexual assault kit, also known as a rape kit, where you collect evidence, pubic hair from the individual. Also any hairs that are on the body. You do DNA swabs of the body as well as DNA swabs of the vagina, anus and mouth. And then those can be tested for DNA of the possible perpetrator. It can take several weeks for all that to come back, though.

Nancy Grace
Doctor Kendall crowns, you and I both know that it doesn't take several weeks to get dehydrated. Why are you saying that?

Dr. Kendall Crowns
Well, it does take several weeks for the testing to get done. You can't just expect it to happen overnight.

Nancy Grace
There's not an immediate DNA test because I've had them done at the crime lab.

Dr. Kendall Crowns
I mean, rapid DNA tests are used.

Nancy Grace
There's a quick test result.

Dr. Kendall Crowns
Well, you can get quick test results correct, but you can't necessarily pinpoint it to a specific individual without doing all the specific testing.

Nancy Grace
Well, okay, then your Texas crime lab must work differently than the one that I use, because we can get quick test results.

I know they're not as reliable as the ones that take two weeks, but it's enough for a death penalty indictment.

And one more thing, very quickly. Doctor Kendall crowns. About the bite marks in her condition, tied up, hands and feet on her back, she managed to bite a defendant. Is there a chance we could get his DNA out of her mouth?

Dr. Kendall Crowns
Yes, that is a possibility. If she bit hard enough and pulled skin cells off, it's possible that they could get it from her mouth.

Nancy Grace
Magic Corley Peele, KPRC two. What is happening right now?

Megyn Kelly
Right now, both men are in jail with $10 million bonds each.

This investigation is ongoing.

Prosecutors say that they're still waiting on test results to prove if Jocelyn Nungarre was sexually assaulted. So we're still waiting to see if those charges will be upgraded or if they will face the death penalty. Because of. Right now, based on the legislature, they're not death penalty eligible. So still a lot more to uncover in this case, for sure.

Nancy Grace
Michael Ivana. So, bottom line, they're kicking back having three hots and a cot.

Cosentic secuchinumab
The investigators are at the mercy of the legal system. They have to abide by what the district attorney guidance that they give them. They honestly do probably want to file sexual assault, but they have to wait for the results. They're at the mercy of the crime lab.

Nancy Grace
Oh, okay. So, I guess she had her pants pulled off and had scratches on her back. And one admits that he was kissing her. I guess that's not enough for them yet. But I'm telling you, you can when.

Cosentic secuchinumab
It goes to court.

Nancy Grace
Well, you can say that, but I've tried plenty of cases with circumstantial evidence and without DNA. Before the advent of DNA and all, I was a blood type. Okay, so it can be done.

Cosentic secuchinumab
It's gonna be a circumstantial case because neither one wants to admit they minimize their actions.

Nancy Grace
Okay. To hear Michael Lavalnas tell it, I've got to wait on a confession, and that'll be a cold day in he'll. Before these two confessed, Andy Khan. What am I just.

Am I the one upside down here.

Andy Khan
Before a Texas jury. I could probably step outside when they get the case, go to the restroom, come back and they'll pronounce him guilty and sentence him to death. There is no way a jury is not going to sentence these two to.

Nancy Grace
Death if it is sought. And you know what else breaks my heart, Andy Khan, that the mom, God be with her, keeps saying, thank you everybody, for all your support. I'm so grateful. She shouldn't even be in this position. And I heard Og, who's a pretty good prosecutor, state that the prosecutors and law enforcement are under so much pressure because there is just a wave, wave after wave after wave of criminal from other countries coming into our country. And right there is one of the hubs where they come in. So I've got to contend with not only our us, our american citizens performing depraved acts on children. Now I've got them coming over to do it.

Andy Khan
Actually, last year, last August, I worked with a family whose eleven year old girl was raped and murdered by an undocumented immigrant who is now facing the death penalty. That was last August. So I, sadly, I've worked with families that are facing this situation. And yeah, it's a broken system all to hell.

Nancy Grace
If you know or think you know anything about this case that could help the state build the case, dial 713-308-3600 repeat, 713 308 3600. I want to thank all of our guests as our prayers go out to this little girl, Jocelyn, and her family, her mother and her little brother.

We wait as justice unfolds.

Goodbye, friend.

Cosentic secuchinumab
Ah, a trip to the backcountry for a hike.

So calming, so peaceful.

So it's time to split.

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Cindy Lauper
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