JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night.

All day.

David Tank Abbott
All right. What's happening, baby? Good to see you. Oh, likewise. It's been a long road for both of us.

It has been a long road, man. Yes. I think I first met you in 1997. Mmm. I don't know the dates, but I remember meeting you officially, or in my meeting memory in New Orleans or somewhere around there when I was sitting, like, in an auditorium, and you came in and sat down next to me.

Joe Rogan
And at that time, people used to bother me all the time, and so I was getting some fresh air and away from everyone, and you came up and sat down, and I was. In my head, I was like, oh, no, I just want some peace.

You rolled up and you were totally cool. And I was like, oh, that guy's cool. We had a good session wrapping. Yeah, I remember first meeting, you know, when you talk about, like, the early days of the UFC, like, you, you are one of the real original legends of MMA. I mean, you were one of the very first guys.

David Tank Abbott
And you were one of the very first guys. First of all, you were one of the very first guys, if not the first, to wear gloves, which I always thought was very smart. I know. Vitor, I think, was one of the first. No.

Who's the very first? Was it you? I don't know. The people out there in the Internet world say this Melton Bowen guy, he was a striker boxer kind of guy in the early UFC's. I did not get the idea from him at all.

Joe Rogan
And who was the other guy with the one glove boxing? Yeah, he just died recently. Damn it. I forgot his name. It was back in the days with Fred.

David Tank Abbott
Art Jimmerson. Art Jimerson. Yes. Yeah. And Fred Ettich.

That's right. And Harold Howard and all those guys. And at the time, I had just gotten out of jail for beating up a cop's son, and they kind of. He used his position to his dad, make things go the way for the prosecution, even though he deserved to get beat up. And I obliged him.

Joe Rogan
But I was going back and forth from a halfway house to work from the guy that got me into the show, and we stopped off at a, like a dick's sporting goods store. Big box sporting goods store like that. I don't think it was dick's, but it was something like that. And they were bag gloves, and I put them on and I go, these would be perfect. But they had a post in them, so you couldn't really wrestle with them.

And I was like, hmm, I could take the post out. I ended up cutting it off and it was just a clear, plastic, thick tube that you can hold onto. So I got rid of that and I go, these are perfect. And I think they were harbinger gloves. And I knew because I've been in hundreds of street fights, altercations.

That's where I come from. Although I've wrestled since I was eight years old, but I used to beat people up on the street that deserved it. Yeah, absolutely. There's not one guy out there that didn't want to do the same thing to me. I was just better at it.

So I knew my hands would get hurt. And I'm like, you can't fight three times in one night without your hands getting busted up. So I cut those out and I go, these are perfect. I could wrestle in them. As I said, I'd wrestled my whole life, and they were perfect.

David Tank Abbott
Did you have hand wraps on? No, no handwritten, just the gloves? Yeah. Did wrap your wrists or anything? No, nothing.

And what was the law back then? What were the rules? Rather, what were the rules and for what? You were allowed to wear wrestling shoes, you were allowed to hit the nuts back then. Your first fights, you were allowed to pull hair, hit the nuts, you could do anything.

Joe Rogan
There wasn't. There were until I came along. And anyways, they, you just couldn't. I can't even tell you what you couldn't do, but you couldn't bite and you couldn't eye gouge. Those were the only two rules, I.

David Tank Abbott
Think, fish hooking, right? No, that was me. Oh, really? You started.

Joe Rogan
I introduced them to fish hooking. And so at the fighters meeting, they have these meetings with all the fighters and they all sit in there and I guess think they're badass, but I guess they are in their own world, but, so they're all sitting around and big John McCartney was up there explaining the rules, and I think he is having trouble since there wasn't any. So at the end of that, I asked him, I said I had the gloves with me, and I say, can I wear these? And in his big bellowing, goofy voice, he goes, oh, if you want to wear them, go ahead. Thinking I was some kind of fool, when in fact I was thinking everybody else were fools.

They've never really been in a fight and your hands get busted up. So, yeah, I thought the first time I saw you wearing them, I'm like, that guy's smart and look, and when you knocked out, was it John Tua matua. Matua. John Matua. When you knocked him out, I was like, see, like this, you can still generate insane power, but you don't hurt your hands.

Absolutely, and I didn't hurt my hands. Although at the end of that fight, not that fight, but you fought three times in one night. And I think I busted up my hand. It didn't break it, but busted up where? I had to go to the hospital and get it x rayed, and I got to go.

I didn't want to go because I was a kid. And, like, no one sends me to the hospital, even myself, you know, my busted up hands. No, I'll be all right. But my father talked me into going. So I went there and there.

All of my opponents were all stretched out. I'm saying, oh, well, how you doing? I'm just passing through. So they x rayed it and said I was all right and went back to the cocktail party and had some fun. Did you have any, like, injuries during your career?

Oh, sure. I mean, when I fought, when I needed knee surgery against Ferozo, I couldn't run, I couldn't do anything, and I ended up taking the fight. I told them I didn't want to fight, and then back in those days, they had ways of stacking the cards against you. And so the owner of the show at that time says, hey, show up. You got a small or you have a boxer, your first fight, so that's not going to be a big deal.

And he goes, then you got a little guy, like a 200 pound guy that was from Shamrock's camp.

David Tank Abbott
Jerry Bolander. Yeah, yeah. And you can fight him. I mean, he's nothing because he's like, you know, 200 pounds, you throw him around like a ragdoll. And I'm like, okay.

Joe Rogan
You know, talking me into it, realizing he's just trying to sell his show and get it over. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, well, I'm never one to say no to a fight. And so I said, okay, you talked me into it. I'll show up. But I couldn't run.

I couldn't do anything. And, like, jog one time around the track of 400, I couldn't do it. So I go and take the boxer, make short work of him. And because boxing is good if you're going to box and stand up in a ring, but you're not going to go anywhere in a fight. Just with boxing as a skill, it might help you throw a punch and that kind of thing.

But if your main plan of attack is boxing, you're going to get taken down and you can't box from your back. So anyways, back to the show. I take short work of him and I'm like, all right, so I got this little 90 pounder, 190 pounder, and make short work of him. And I think I was supposed to fight mark Coleman at that time, and I was like, oh, well, we'll just see who's tougher and not get taken down, and we'll just throw punches. And he's not really, at that time, very skilled on his feet.

I had at least a fighter's chance at the whole deal. And so, you know, you have these, like, dressing rooms that are screened off and there's an opponent or not an opponent, alternate big guy going crazy, making all this noise. He sounded like an elephant running around in a cage.

I'm going, what the hell is that guy doing? I go, he's not even fighting. He's just an alternate. Well, it turns out it comes for us to go in with Bolander. And what happens?

Oh, he pulls out. Why did he pull out? Oh, he just, oh, he couldn't make it. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I just fell off the turnip truck, and next thing I know, I'm fighting this 300 pound plus guy who's all jacked up on God's knows what and go crazy.

David Tank Abbott
Who was it? Ferozo. Oh. So I went out there, and this is at the advent of referees, and I don't care about whether or losing. Never have.

Joe Rogan
I'm always down for the fight and the battle of fighting and getting bloody sweaty, getting punched and punching people, man, that's what it's all about for me. And so I'm like, oh, I'll get in there. And we banged it out and they had three refs and they gave him the fight. I've had people said, if you really watch it, you won that fight. Don't care.

They suckered me in with a little guy, and then they throw in 100, 350 pound dude. Ended up kind of ruining the show because Coleman didn't have anybody to fight. So he went out with Randleman and did like a wrestling expedition. Expedition. And it was like, why did you do that?

You didn't have to pull Shamrock's guy out. It was behind the scenes kind of things that were all prevalent at that point in time. Yeah, there was a lot of shenanigans in the early, early days. Oh, yeah. It was so loosely constructed.

David Tank Abbott
You know, people have to realize, like, if you're looking at the UFC. Now you're looking at, you know, wme owned UFC. Gigantic money, huge fucking special effects with screens. Everything looks amazing. The sounds amazing.

Joe Rogan
Professional wrestling back then. I mean, UFC twelve was the first one that I did, which was Scott Ferozo's debut. And we did it in Dothan, Alabama. And it was like a high school auditorium or something. It wasn't a very big place.

I remember the name Dothan. Yeah. Was that. That was when they did an interview. With me and it was supposed to be at a different show somewhere and they got.

They got canceled, so they put it up in Dotham. It was supposed to be in Buffalo, but it got banned from New York, right. So last minute we had all fly to Alabama, right. So I was. I was actually on the plane going to Dotham and are not Dotham, but to Buffalo, right.

And they said, hey, there's been a change of plans. You got to go to Dotham. So I went to Dotham, and I was sitting in the, like, two story hotel. Not really a hotel, but one, like a motel type thing. And I looked out across a parking lot and there was a bar there.

What the hell? Why not? So I ended up walking across the street and I was drinking at the bar with this crazy old country admit guy. Old school duties, like a peanut farmer or something like that. We got blasted.

And he goes, come on, I'll take you to the arena. And I'm like, okay. So we get in this old pickup truck, and he turns the key and it sounds like a dragster. And I got hillbilly Hayman or whatever driving this thing. And we drive to the arena and I'm like, no, no, no.

I'm supposed to do an interview. He ends up parking on the island of Grassy island. He drove up the curb. I stumbled in there and David Isaacs is like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen next? They got banned.

And then I showed up out of my mind, and I think there might be a clip of me all drunk, saying stuff. I don't know. There's a bunch of those clips, I'm sure. Oh, absolutely. How old were you with your first UFC fight?

30 years old. And did you have any competitive fights other than wrestling matches? Did you do any amateur fights or anything? Well, it kind of wasn't around back then. No, there was no real fighting.

You only did it in the street. And back in those days, I had wrestled. And then on my 19th birthday, I was hoping to go on. I had one year at wrestling in junior college and a dumb drunk friend of mine drove into a light pole on my birthday. That's why my teeth got all knocked out.

And it also put a gash right underneath my knee and mangled my knee on my left knee. And so my wrestling, I came back like, halfway, maybe a third of the way into the season, and I just couldn't. I didn't have enough time to get whatever. It's all written, meaning spiritually. And so I didn't perform the way I wanted to perform.

My sophomore year, I did not continue. No one was interested in me. So the whole time as a young man, I wanted a box. And my mother said, absolutely not. Not the CTE, and everybody boxes is stupid, and you're not going to do that.

And I'm like, oh, man. So I didn't have anything to do. I was 18 years old, and I said, you know what? I own a box. And the same guy that it was back when Mike Tyson was on fire and he was the baddest man on the planet, and I was a young man.

I go, not my planet. And so, you know, he would obviously kill me in boxing, but there's not a boxing ring on every corner. And so I was all fired up with that. So same guy that I worked for at the clothing company where the cut and sew type thing was for medical clothing. He lived up San Luis Obispo way, and he started boxing.

And we were at a, you know, just like what you would think going to a boxing gym and learning how to box. And I go, man, I want a box. And he said, well, come on up and I'll introduce you to my trainer. And maybe, you know, anyways, that got the ball started rolling, basically. So went up to San Luis Obispo, and there was a boxing gym just outside of there, a Tascadero or something like that.

And so I went to the gym, and it's like, you see these reels where these guys all, you learn a skill like boxing, and then somebody that comes in that's a complete novice has no clue of what's going on, and they take advantage of these people. Oh, you think you're tough? You want a box? Well, if you don't know how to box. So that was the vibe when I went into the boxing gym, and I go, hey, yeah, I want a box.

Yeah, sure, I'll do this. And they go, are you sure? I'm like, yeah. So they go, well, you want a spar? And they're all snickering.

You want a spar? And I'm like, yeah, isn't that what we're in here for? Is that what you do? And they're like, oh, no, you gotta. You have to learn.

And I'm like, okay. So they got, like, all kind of, like, chuckling going, oh, he wants a spar. And so they went and got a mouthpiece from a local, like, what do you call those stores? Sporting goods store. And it comes back, and they were trying to melt it in coffee and all that kind of stuff.

And so this guy's got a name, a very big name from the seventies in boxing, and I don't need to talk about his family has a big name. Can't say his name. I don't know. There's no point in it. Yes, it could.

But I was training with this guy, and he did this guy. I have it on videotape and all that kind of stuff. So it's not like I'm making up stories. The antithesis of trying to get myself over. I try to just go, no, no, no.

You know, so I get in there and I go. And they're all like, oh, this is gonna be great. And this guy is a heavyweight, and he had, like, eight professional fights. And I believe they thought they were gonna use his name and push him and get him some money somehow. And so I'm like, okay.

I go, like, they. I put boxing gloves on and hit the bag and played around and sparred with people, but I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do it. Yeah. And I knocked the living snot out of him.

I just really? Yeah. I just said, fuck it. Can you cuss on this or whatever? Yeah, you can cuss.

Yeah. But I said, okay. I wasn't sparring, like, skillfully boxing. I was like, let's go. And we went.

David Tank Abbott
And you had already had a bunch of street fights. Yes. And you knew how to hit things. Yes. And power is something you either have or you don't have, and you've always had crazy power.

So if someone underestimates you and someone's thinking, look at this guy. So they let their guard down, get a real little relaxed. Think they're just going to tee off on you? No, he thought he was gonna hand it to me. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
And I was like, all right, you'll see what's gonna happen. And I said, this is gonna be a street fight. And I knocked a living daylight. Like I said, I have it on videotape, and that guy was filming it. The guy from the clothing store.

Anyways. Sport factory. Yeah, but, yeah, and so he's in the back going, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I enlightened him that, you know, I didn't need to know the skill of boxing to take out somebody that had eight professional fights in boxing.

I pretty much handed it to him. So what did you do? You didn't box it and just clinched. Got close to him and just started. No, it was on.

I just started throwing. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Really? Right down the middle. Let's go.

And so did you always. You just always had skill with your hands. Like, I mean, that's pretty impressive for an eight. Eight fighting professional boxer. I put my chin down and I don't tell stories.

I. Like I said, if you. If you want to get a lie detector and a certified guy, I will take it. Listen, you don't have to tell that to me. I know you.

David Tank Abbott
I've known you forever, so I'll just say it to anybody else. Tank says it as it is always. You always have. Even when you lost, you were like, that guy fucked me up. That guy kicked my ass.

You said you got molested by the lead singer from Queen, Freddie Mercury. My dad. You're slapping me. My dad suffered. Beat you.

Joe Rogan
He was bitch slapping me. You had the best attitude about both winning and losing. If you lost, you were very self deprecating. You always had fun with things. Yes.

That's not the end of the world. You were a great guy to be around, man, because it was a goddamn party. I don't know if you remember, but we got hammered a couple of times. There was a few different times at different hotels where you and I got drunk and you, with your whole crew, they were all a bunch of psychos. It was just like, being around, like, a lot of pit bulls.

David Tank Abbott
Like, jacked up pit bulls, like, ready to go, but it was fun, man. You always brought a party. You were having a good fucking time. You were having a good fucking time fighting, and you were having. And that's what made you a legend in a lot, because you were.

Everybody thought that the skilled martial artist was always gonna beat the fighter, right? But there was a. You were a skilled martial artist, but you were kind of more of a fighter. Just a dude who fucks people up. And for you to just be going out there and knocking people out, you became the biggest star of the UFC, even without winning it, you know, I mean, you beat a lot of good guys, but your power and your attitude, like, when Matua went out and he did a little fucking dance, like everybody.

Cause it was. Everybody thought martial arts was supposed to be bow and, you know, sensei and spirituality and meditating in the river, and you were out there getting wild. Matua was metaphorically martial arts in my head. See all these people running around and. Martial arts is martial arts.

Joe Rogan
Don't get me wrong, it works. It's a skill, but it. Fighting is chaos. Yeah, but I clang this phrase. I believe, anyways.

Fighters fortitude. And that is where it becomes fighting. It's not a skill that you learn and you become tough. Hoist. Gracie is not tough because he knows jiu jitsu.

He's a tough man. And all these guys that fight in the UFC are tough men, not, not because they know skill. You like these people getting an arm bar? Who cares? Anybody that sings skill is not a fighter.

You're a pussy, frankly. You sit around and go, I can do this and I can do that. Doesn't matter. It's how tough you are. Your fighters fortitude, when someone's got a thumb in your eye socket or taking a big bite out of your back and how you react and what you do from that, that's what fighter's fortitude is not like, oh, well, he's got his thumb in my eye.

Maybe I could arm bar him or put him in a triangle. That doesn't save you. Fighting is emotional. It's not about skill. It's what is inside your head, the heart you have and what you need to do to get things done to beat the opponent.

Hopefully, that's thinking the same thing you're thinking, and that is I'm going to get to this point where I can kill this person or let or kill him. But basically fighting is to a point where in the street, anyways, and everybody that I beat up was trying to do the same thing to me in the street. They were trying to beat me up and get to the point where they could make the decision of killing me. And that's the whole point of a street fight. And it's not about, oh, I got better skill than you.

That's the difference between a street fighter and somebody that goes to the gym and learns how to throw a correct punch or a submission hold that's going to save your ass. You can learn those things. You can't be tough by learning those things. You can become tougher by learning those things. And if you're a tough guy and you learn skills that makes you tougher, like hoist Gracie.

He's a tough man, but that guy's got skills up the Yin Yang and Jiu jitsu that makes him even tougher. But he has the mental fortitude to keep it together in the chaos. Yeah. Fighters fortitude. And some people, even very skillful people, for some reason, don't have that.

David Tank Abbott
There's moments we've all seen where you get this guy who's like a. Especially a lot of guys who are gym heroes. There's a bunch of guys that, in the gym, they look sensational. They look like, this guy's going to be a world champion. Keep an eye on him.

You watch them sparring, you watch them hitting mitts, and you're like, this guy's insane. And then they fall. They maybe reach, like, 30% of their potential when they fight. You can see the panic in them. And they don't have it in their head.

Yeah, they don't have something. The thing that some guys have, like, a Max Holloway has that he'll fight to the end. To the end. Fighters for it. There's zero quit.

The quit is not in there. You can go searching around for it forever. You're never going to find it. And then there's some guys, even though they're really talented, you can get to a point where they'll break and they'll just try to survive, and there's a difference. And it's the great ones all, like Jon Jones, like, so many of these guys, like, they find a way to win, and they never give up.

No matter how chaotic it gets, no matter how bad they're losing, they find a way. 100% neon Edwards in the fifth round against Kamaru Usman. Perfect example. He's getting just. He's getting taken down and manhandled, and he finally lands a head kick in the fifth round.

Joe Rogan
There you go. He becomes a hero. And it's all fighters fortitude. It's about being a tough guy. Yeah.

David Tank Abbott
And you can see it in that fight. Have you seen that Usman Leon Edwards fight? I haven't seen it. It's fucking amazing. Because his coach, his coach is sensational, and his coach is screaming, don't let him bully you, son.

You know, they're from English in England. And the rocky music is playing. There's a clip of it online. You get goosebumps every time. Every time I see it.

Every time I see it, I get goosebumps. It's like that thing that is the difference between a fighter and just someone who's skilled. That was something that you, I think, introduced more than anybody in the early days of the sport. This is it. You want to see this?

Cause this is so fucking good, man. Play this. Listen, stop feeling sorry for your fucking stuff. But come on, man. What's wrong with you?

You're too fucking dumb. You gotta pull this.

What, the music? Yeah, but it's part of the fun thing. Yeah, that his fucking coach is sensational.

So they're doing it this way to avoid copyright strikes from just showing photographs of it. But it's the kind of person who never gives up. The kind of person who finds a way, really knows how to actually just. It's not just skill. There's another element, and that's what you're talking about.

Joe Rogan
If you put it to UFC six, that was the awakening of the guillotine choke because restaurant, you had jiu jitsu. And then wrestlers came along and started handing it to the submission jiu jitsu guys. And then UFC six came along and they came up with the guillotine. Now, if you. They.

Oleg got the guillotine on me twice, and I fought myself out of it. I've never timed it or whatever, but it was a while I was losing consciousness. I was seeing black, but I pulled myself out. And in fact, he brought up the fish hooks. When I finally.

The first time he got it, and I pulled my head out and he was laying there, I'm like, what are you going to do now? And then I reached down and fish hooked him and started banging his head on the floor.

David Tank Abbott
When you look back at yourself then, does that even seem like you? Yeah. Why not? I mean, of course it is you, but I mean, the. The young, hulking, you smashing guys.

Joe Rogan
This is also just the one round, correct? Yes. 17 minutes round. Yeah. There's no rounds.

David Tank Abbott
Was it. Did they have a time limit on any of the fights? No, and I would have won that fight if Big John McCartney wouldn't have stuck his. His melon in between us and break us up. You know, that's how you were talking about how they fixed the fights and everything.

Joe Rogan
He. He broke this fight up. They. There were no rules. Not supposed to do.

Look, he's breaking us up. Why'd he do that? Why did they do that? Yeah. Were people booing?

Yeah, that was all John McCartney. McCartney. He. Why did he break us up? I don't know.

David Tank Abbott
Like, what were the rules back then. As far as rules? He. All you. All I had to do was give him a track starting gun and he could stand there and go boom.

Joe Rogan
And that. That's all he needed to do. He just had to start the fight. He restart was just completely because of him. Yes.

David Tank Abbott
Big John McCarthy. Yes. He's corrupt, and he's a crooked. His idea of what he thinks fighting is. And he's a full on Oleg, oh, submission guy because he's all into technique.

Joe Rogan
I don't know this. He's never said it to me, but he's all into skill and everything else. He has no respect for fighters fortitude or anything. You don't think he does? No, I think he does.

David Tank Abbott
Well, I mean, I think you have, like, a personal dispute with him, but I like Big John, and I. You might like him, but he leveraged his made up Persona, big John, to get me kicked out of the show. Him and his wife, they got me literally kicked out of the show. They kicked out the UFC? Yeah.

Really? Yeah. What year was this? Very early. Why would they want to get you kicked out of the UFC?

Joe Rogan
Because he does not like me. He's a cop, and he doesn't like the fact that I'm probably, in his eyes, a thug. But the point is, he has been his body. He's never liked me. You know, he was a jiu jitsu student before he started in the thing for the gracies.

They didn't have a ref, so art Davey goes, hey, what about that big guy, Big John? And then Big John was a cop and everything, and he did background checks on me before I got into the UFC. Like, oh, yeah, no, this guy really. He's got a record. He's been.

He's got. I've been arraigned at least. At least seven times for beating people up, and shit was hitting the fan. It was getting. It was getting bigger and more and more.

You're gonna get in trouble pretty soon. Thank God I had a great attorney. He was a guy that could point out the truth, and people would see that, and the DA would go, okay, community service. I'd go do that at the boxing gym. So anyway, so John checked into it, and he goes, no, this guy really is a street fighting legend like Tank Murdoch.

And obviously, the guy's dad was a cop, and that underlying it doesn't matter. But he did not like the fact that I came along after the gracies because he was like a stooge for Gracie jiu jitsu and the whole nine yards. And when I came along, I kind of said, no, no, no. Fighting is emotional. It's not a skill.

It's not a skills match. It's what you have in your head. And he obviously doesn't have anything in his, but. So at Puerto Rico, I used to go around to dojos and go in there after, I'd cruise around drinking a twelve pack in my van, and we'd pull up to dojos and walk in there and go, who does anybody want to fight? And nobody did.

And so I lost my train of thought on that, but, oh, this is it. Okay. So when I was, I was working out with weights, and I, and I didn't, I wasn't a strong day for me, so I got, you have to know when to say no, not lifting today. So I felt compunction and I needed to go do something. I said, let's go check this jiu jitsu place out.

They had flyers at the Westminster boxing gym where I was boxing after I left that BakersField thing. So we go in there and all the other kung fu and wing chungs and all that stuff. No one ever wanted to fight me. And I go, let's go check out this jiu jitsu thing, see if it's real or not. And this guy's supposed to be a world champion and all this, and since it's out there, I'll say who it was.

But along goes. And so he's supposed to be some world champion this and that, and at this time, we're totally green. Didn't have any really respect for jiu jitsu or anything like that. And I was with Paul Herrera and Eddie Reese, who are very accomplished wrestlers, and I go, let's go check it out. I'm out lifting.

Let's go see if this stuff is for real. So we go into the jiu jitsu thing, and it was a little bit of a drive. We get in there and I say, hey, we want to roll around with you. See, we check this stuff out, you know, and they're portuguese. Oh, demonstration, demonstration.

And I'm like, oh, what the fuck is this? Anyways, so one of the guys goes in the back. I guess they put cameras up in these little mirrored boxes that one way mirror things. And so Eddie gets up there, and he's a little guy, and so it didn't take him very long to tap him out with, like, an arm thing. And then Paul, who's a, is a all American from Nebraska, wrestler, bigger guy, 190 ish.

He gets in there and I'm like, going, what the hell's going on? Because they're lasting and lasting, and he's on his back, and at that time it's like, what the, what are you on your back for? Stupid? You know? Yeah.

Totally ignorant of what was going on. And I'm like, holy fuck. He ended up tapping him out and I'm like, gone. Wow. He made short work of Eddie, and he tapped out Paul and had a respect for Paul for his wrestling abilities and where he'd gone and trained and wrestled for.

And I was like, holy smokes. Well, I'm rather large and very powerful. And Elon goes, is not. And so I go, okay. They were starting on their knees and all that kind of stuff, and I'm like, whatever.

So I get on them. And I had a medical place, the cut and sew place. I had a scrub on. So I'm on top of him, and he grabs, like, a nurse's scrub because they don't rip or anything like that. And he does, like, an x on his thing, and he starts choking me.

And I look at him and I kind of roll my eyes. Like, really? Like, I went like that. Like, fists on both sides of his face, you know, and he's like, oh, okay. And so we rolled around, rolled around, rolled around, and then he finally got to an arm lock.

And like I said, I was. I was doing curls with, like, 120 pound dumbbells and stuff like that. And so I picked him up. Basically, he was like a foot off of the mat. And I raised my right hand up and made a fist.

Like, you want me to fall down on his eyes got huge as the moon. No, no, no. And I'm like, okay. So I let him down and let it go. And he was like, oh.

Like, I've had enough of this big guy here. And so we left. And whatever goes on in somebody's head, like, oh, who's that guy? Almost, in a narcissistic way, I got him in arm lock. I would have used him for.

It doesn't matter. Yeah, there would have been a whole bunch of bad for him getting slammed. Yeah. So Puerto Rico, I don't know. Paul was fighting in that show.

Well, that show, it was David versus Goliath there. Oh, that's right. That's right. Did he fight big daddy? Yeah, yeah.

And big daddy had a videotape of him, so he knew exactly what to do with that high crotch. Mmm. That was all staged. Not stage, but preparer. Yeah.

And so Alain goes, comes up afterwards. Otherwise, this is all the way full circle back to John. So Alain goes, comes up after Paul gets elbowed. Why big John didn't stop it? Who knows?

I know. But anyways, so he starts mouthing off. He must have had too much alcohol or something. And I'm like, who do you think you're talking to? And, you know, like, really?

You were gonna go there. Okay. So he had, like, him and all his friends were behind him. So I popped him and was going after him. And me and Eddie were fighting the whole contingency of brazilian fighters in the audience.

And then we go to the back and old school warrior, and no one sends you to the hospital. And I'm telling Paul, hey, fuck that. You're not going to the hospital. You don't do that. And he's like, huh?

And there was a doctor, Istragal and John McCartney and his wife, Elaine, who is Karen? I think her name should be Karen. Elaine McCartney. Anyways, she comes running up and starts pointing her finger in my face and saying I was, get the hell out of here if I kill you. Just hyperbole in the moment charged type thing.

They try to make a huge move out of that. And then also, that's how you get kicked out. And then John's, like, telling Bob, oh, I'm gonna quit, and Elaine's gonna quit. And if you don't kick him out, that's why I didn't go to the show. And mind you, I was the personality of that whole show at that time.

And I think they went to Detroit or something like that after that words. And everybody's like, where's Tank at? There's the show. And they. Bob's like, we gotta fix this.

And so somehow a letter came up of apology to their leverage of, they were gonna quit. I'm like, who cares if they quit? He's just said, he's a referee. He pulls the trigger on a gun, and then he affects fights by breaking people up and giving people chances and everything else. He's a corrupt person and who cares?

But I guess Bob was leaning into the fact, like, oh, he's developed a personality for himself. So, anyways, we're gonna have this letter made, and we'll send it to the McCartneys, and then they can be soothed, and then I'll be allowed to come back. And that was all around the same time with the Ferozo fight with my knee messed up and Bob being the slickster that he is. But don't you think it's also just possible that Jerry Bolander got hurt because he fought too? Right?

David Tank Abbott
He fought a fight first, right? It's possible. But I. I'm a kind of a cynic. Conspiracy theorist.

Joe Rogan
A cynic. I see where you would feel that way. And I think in the early days, you know, one of the things that Dana white does a really good job about is, like, he kind of. He lets. He talks to everybody.

Mm hmm. Have conversations with people, sit people down, talk to them, explain. This is great. This is not so great. You know, this is what we think we could do with you.

David Tank Abbott
Like, no, back then, it was chaos. Yes, absolutely. It was chaos. And a referee today, they're allowed to stand people up back then. I understand completely what you're saying.

Yeah. But back in those days, those. Those guys set up a lot of stuff. What they set up. All right.

Joe Rogan
It won't come to me right off, but I will. Okay. It does. I don't want to put you on the spot. So you think that they had people that they wanted to win, so they made things work a particular way?

Well, like the Don Fry fight. Him fighting is the people comment. It's not his friend who. Mark hall. That guy went out and did the job for Fry.

David Tank Abbott
It looks like he did well. No, he did. Yeah, it looks like it when you watch the fight. Yeah, he did. And they fought before, too.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, he just went out there and fell down. And then why, you know, regardless of how easy my fight before is, mentally, it's a whole different ball of wax. Yeah, it's. It's a different ball of wax if one guy goes through a war and one guy goes through a real easy fight. Yeah.

Emotionally, though, in your head, like, oh, you got to get all ramped up. To go, especially if you had a real close fight, your legs got beat up. There's. There's a lot of things that can happen. One guy can knock a guy.

David Tank Abbott
The tournaments are so crazy. Cause one guy, it's almost like it's better than not fighting. Cause he lands one punch, knocks the guy out, like, oh, my God, I already won. I want to fight. I know I'm performing well.

I didn't get hurt at all. And now I'm loose. My brain's loose. And then you could go through three rounds of hell with some fucking psychopaths where you're barely surviving, both of you. And you get to the final round, you like.

Or whatever it was back then, it was one round, but you get to the final end of it, and you're like, oh, Jesus, I got to do this one more time with a guy who's fresh, right? Yeah. And if you can rig that, and if you can, if you want to, you can set a bracket up. I'm not accusing them of doing that. Well, it's the same thing with that Anthony Macias guy that fought Oleg before me.

Joe Rogan
Oleg went out. Oleg went out and choked out his first opponent with a guillotine choke real fast. And then he fought Anthony Macias. That winks at him right before the fight. They wink.

Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Obvious. Where do you want me to fall down and who?

I fought the two biggest guys ever fought in the UFC. A 400 pound guy in the six foot five. Whatever. 300 or 280, whatever size you want to make real fights, not some guy that's out there laying down going, okay. Well, the early days, it was so, it was so loose, and you never knew when it was going to go away because it was already getting suspended from cable.

David Tank Abbott
Cable kicked it off. You could only get it off DirecTV back then. Yeah. With John Mc. Was it mcCain?

Yeah, John McCain. And John McCain allegedly was doing something for Bud light, so he was working with Bud Light, and Bud Light wanted boxing. Right. It's kind of, you know, the whole, the whole world was conspiring to keep mma from flourishing back then. Absolutely.

It was a real big deal. They would disparage and everything. Fucking. There's a funny video of Bob Aram talking about it. They're rolling around on the ground like, homosexual.

Joe Rogan
I saw that. Yes. I was laughing about that, too. It's amazing. It's amazing because he's such an old school guy, right?

David Tank Abbott
Him saying that, it's just, it's very. Immediately I was like, what's his angle? Why is he saying that? Yeah, he's trying to save boxing. He's just silly because boxing's awesome.

I love boxing. Doesn't mean the UFC is not better. Oh, no, it's a skill. Yeah. Yeah.

Boxing is an amazing skill. It's an amazing skill, and it's a huge part of MMA. I mean, if you can't throw a punch, you really, you can't win. But it's a different thing. You guys are in.

You're in. It's a game. It's a fighting game, whereas MMA is a fight. Well, boxing can be a fight, too, but it's so. The rules are so specific.

Well, limited. When I went out and boxed a Tuscadero thing, I came back here and went to Westminster boxing club, I believe it is. Anyways, I was fortunate enough, I walked in and Tyrell Biggs was boxing and his trainer, Matt Keirhar, I walked up and I was a light heavyweight. And every back in those days, like, oh, I'll train you, I'll train you. And I'm like, okay.

Joe Rogan
He didn't have time for me, so I was like, okay. And I'm slowly learning boxing. And his underling was on charge of me. And I go, when are we gonna fight? And he's like, no, you don't just fight.

You gotta learn how to box. I'm like, no, not me. I'm gonna fight. He goes, well, there's a show in six weeks in here. And I go, that perfect, I'll do that then.

You can't just do that. And I'm like, no, I can do that. And so this is also on video. I fought some guy that had been boxing for, like, three years, and I knocked the stuffing out of him, and his mouthpiece went flying out of his mouth. And at that time, the guy that ran the gym was named Noy Cruz, and he was the trainer for Carlos Palomino, old school Mexican, six foot two guy, but knew his boxing skills, like, know tomorrow?

And he went up to Mac and he said, hey, that guy's got something you can't train. He goes, you guys can be in here forever. But I want to train that guy. And Mac's all, I don't have time for him. I'm with Tyrell.

He goes, we'll split him, whatever. So from that point on, after that first fight, I started rolling with Noy. Not rolling, but boxing with him. And he's the one that got me sit down on my punches and all mexican style, hard punches inside to the body, uppercuts, all that kind of stuff. Then he used to swing those big old leather bags.

They're hanging from chains. It was like an old warehouse that had been there probably since the early sixties. He had swing the bag, and he'd come back, and I would just turn through, and the whole gym would shake, and his eyes would get all big and go, ah, noy was a great guy. Do you ever wonder what would happen if you went and pursued just professional boxing? Yeah.

David Tank Abbott
A big white heavyweight with knockout power like you, that could have been very marketable. That was the whole idea. And they were all into that. And I remember because I would show up to the boxing gym with black eyes and cuts on my face after every weekend, pretty much. And in fact, on my trilogy, street warrior is what he used to call me.

Joe Rogan
Oh, the street warrior. And you go, oh, what do you do now? And I go, noy, if only. If only. You don't understand.

If they only had a fighting show with real fighting, not this boxing stuff. And he would just look at me and shake a big smile and shake his head like, you're crazy. And it happened. It was awesome. How did you find out about it?

Well, I was driving I used to work at a liquor store when I was going to college and supplied my habit. So I was looking through the playboys, and I saw an advertisement for ultimate fighting. I don't know what it was. One with the tooth fell out. That was the first one.

David Tank Abbott
Yeah, yeah. And so I had, you know, I was living with two other guys. Pirated cable. He climbed up the telephone pole type thing. And so I invited my dad over.

Joe Rogan
I said, hey, man, you gotta check this ultimate firing. I go, I don't know if it's real or not. I suspect it's not. I think it's probably just a offshoot of professional wrestling. Okay, I'll come over.

So he came over and we're sitting there, you know, drinking beers, watching the tube, and he came out with a. With that grass skirt type thing. And I'm like, oh, see? And then I don't know. Who was it?

Gerard Perdot or whatever. Yeah, Gerard Gardeau, yeah. And he kicked him in the face and his tooth went flying. I go, oh, yes, this is real. It's real.

Yeah. I can't believe it, man. This is gonna be so awesome. So how did you contact them? Like, how do you wind up getting in?

I was in jail for beating up this cop son, right? And I was. Got work release from that. From probation. I did, like, like, three weeks in jail in an honor farm.

And then I went to, like, a probation apartment thing, went to work and came back, and that's when my friends. My friend who worked for his dad at the medical clothing company goes, hey, you know that guy chemo that works at the bar? And I'm like, he goes, you got to know him. He wears, like, that Jean thing. And.

And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, you know, Joseon? I knew Joe son from the boxing gym. He goes, they fought in that show. And I'm like, well, yeah.

I go, why is that guy fighting in that show? Because he would always. I had quite the reputation back in those days. He would come find me in the line and go, mister Abitzer, this way. And cut me in front of everybody and walk me in.

David Tank Abbott
Is this Joe song? No, that was chemo. It was chemo. And I was, hey, thanks, chemo. You know, that's as much as I knew of him.

Joe Rogan
Like, when he was telling me, you know, that guy. And I'm like, hmm. Anyway, so it was chemo. And he goes, this guy chemo. If that guy's in it, why can't you be in it?

That's when I was saying, make it happen? And he started calling art Davey on the phone. And art's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he goes, no, you don't understand. This guy is the real deal from the streets, man.

Everybody knows who he is. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we hear this story all the time. And he's all, not from. Not from this guy. And then it was back in the day when he had, like, a table like this with the phone and the speakerphone on it.

And so he goes, tell that guy, because I was sitting in the back, he goes, tell him I got some guy that's like six foot, 8300 pounds that wants to fight him. And we'll see you next week. At this time, it was raining, so we ended up going to art Davey's office in Torrance, right around the corner. I heard from the Gracie academy, I guess they call it. And so it was raining, and I had, like, a.

It was back in the days when they had brown paper bags for grocery bags. So I put my high top basketball shoes in there and, like, stretchy clothes that you would wear. I had it all folded up. Walked in, sitting here like we are now talking, and he's like, okay. And this is before they came up with the tank idea.

I said, I don't know. I'm a wrestler. And so he goes, okay, well, what are we getting back to you? And he goes, oh, by the way, what's in that bag? I said, well, you said he had somebody that was like six, 8300 pounds that we wanted to fight.

He goes, what? I go, yeah, on the phone you said that? And he goes, you'd fight somebody? And I go to jail. And he goes, you're crazy.

Why? You're just crazy, man. I'm like, no, I'm down for fighting any time you want to do it. And he's like, oh. He shook his head and he walked out.

And like I said, see? I. Did we go over the point of going where I got kicked out before even I got in. No, we didn't talk about that. Oh, so.

David Tank Abbott
So they found out about your record before you got in? Is that what it was? You did something? Yes. Okay, now, this is.

Joe Rogan
I don't know. I've never talked about this publicly. I don't think so.

This is why I told the central casting mafia wannabe guy that they kicked me out. This is why they kicked me out. So they gave me a one sentence paper that says David Abbott's gonna be in the next show, whatever. And I didn't realize that it had to be six, because the gracie's owned. According to my calculations, the first five shows before Bob took over, Bob Meyer was for six.

And so lost my train of thought for a second. It'll come back. So he gave me a piece of paper, and it says, you're going to be in the show, not five, but six. And I'm like, oh, man. And, you know, you're a young man, and your patience is like, I can't wait that long.

I need. I need, like, tomorrow, you know? Right. And I was like, whatever. So I go, okay, work with it.

Well, you can train. And so a wrestler, that was, you know, wrestling. Everybody knows the world and college wrestling. And this guy worked for a volleyball company, clothing company called club Sportswear, and they used to sponsor volleyball players. And so Eddie knew him.

I think they used to live together. Somebody lived with him that knew him, and he called up and said, hey, dave's gonna be in that UFC show. And so he goes, okay. And he goes, well, you guys want to sponsor him? And I don't know anything about anything.

Sponsor what? That, whatever. And he goes, let me ask my boss. And he goes, yeah, sure, you know, this is new. He goes, yeah, we'll give him some clothes to wear and all that kind of stuff.

And he goes, well, he wanted an airplane ticket to go back and watch the show. I think it was UFC five in Charlotte. And so he sends me a ticket, and I'm like, wow, this is, you know, I'm a kid. In my head, I was a kid, but not chronologically. I was a forever college student.

And so I'm flying there, and I'm like, oh, man, this is so cool. These people that do this for me, and they gave me, like, bags full of clothes. I was like, wow, even socks and everything like that. It was like, crazy, you know, that's. That's where I was in that time of life.

And so we get there, and I had a big club bag, and I go, they go, yeah, just try to get on tv, man, just so we can see our stuff. I get to Charlotte, and I walk in, and it was like the lobby of a hotel. It was like a two story hotel, but it was a nicer, like a suite kind of hotel. It wasn't dumpy. And everybody in the lobby had their desk out, and at that time, it was martial arts, and it was kung fu Frank over there and whomever, jujitsu Jeff over there, and I'm just like.

And they're walking around like they're Steven Seagal with their chip on their shoulder and their chest out and thinking. I'm like, what the heck is this, man? Are you kidding me? It looked like a swap meet for martial art wannabes. I don't know.

And all these people are walking around, like, going, this is before UFC even, you know, people knew. They're like, wow. I can remember some guys. I was just like, are you kidding me? This is, like, insane.

These people are, like, just playing the role. And so I just walked on by and I was like, wow, I have a room. And I went to the room and I'm like, wow, my first time really being somewhere by myself. And I'm fine with being by myself, but what the hell am I gonna do? So there was a UFC office in the hotel, so that's my first run in with Karen McCartney.

And I walked in there and she's like, who are you? What do you want? I'm like, wow. I was like, hi, you know, whatever. And Dave, the guy that set it up from the clothing company or the medical company, said, oh, you're going to be all set.

You're going to backstage passes. And I go, good, because I want to know what I want to do. And I the lay of the land, you know? So she's like, oh, yeah, nah, whatever. And I'm like, okay, whatever.

She's having a bad day or something. And so I go, hmm, what do I do? So I walked down the lobby and I said, hey, man, is there a bar around here? And he goes, oh, yeah, right across the street over there. Just down in there and the highway there.

I go, perfect. So I walk over there and everybody's partying. I sit at the bar and everybody's like, oh, what are you here for? Like, oh, you know that UFC thing they're having at the coliseum or something like that? Oh, yeah, that fighting thing.

Are you a fighter? And I'm like, going on, I'm not technically really a fighter. I go, well, I'm not fighting in this show, but I got a piece of paper saying, you know, contract saying that I'm gonna be in the next, so I can, you know, you partied with me. I like to have a good time. So it doesn't take long before the whole bar is rocking and rolling around me, and we're having fun.

Everybody's like, woohoo, man, tank. And I'm like, going, ooh, cringing, you know, like, ugh, tank. And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Woohoo.

And so we partied it up, had a good time, and so end up going back with these guys to this, like, a suites hotel. So there was, like, a room, like a living room, and then you had your bedroom type thing, and we're partying it up, and it doesn't take long before security comes and knocks on doors. Any people are complaining about you guys, and, God, I'm probably swinging off the couch doing all sorts of crazy stuff, and like, okay, well, it turns out Meyerwitz is right across the hallway, and I think he called, so that wasn't a good thing. And I'm like, okay, we'll keep it down. I don't even know that Bob was art.

Davey was the was the guy, and so he was purporting himself as. So I'm like, oh, whatever. And so toned it down. So go back the next day, and it all starts up all over again. And I'm like, yeah, let's go.

And they're going, hell, yeah, we're going. We're going to the fight. Yeah, let's go. So we end up. I go, I got these backstage passes and stuff, so I don't know if I can sit with you guys.

So they got tickets, and they were in this little cubicle block of seats just up on the first rail, and they're sitting there, and I go, okay. And I go, hey, there's that art guy. I go, hey, Art. And he's running around like he's Don King in a tuxedo. And I'm like, hey, Art.

Art, hey, you got my passes and stuff like that. And he's looking at me. He's giving me, like, the cold shoulder, like, not even knowing he sees me, but, like, oh, shit, I don't want to talk to that guy. And I'm like, why is he being evasive? And finally I called him over, and I started putting two and two together.

Like you said, I'm kind of cynical. Conspiracy theorist. He would walk around the hotel like he was King Kong, like I'm the man type thing. And right when I went in to get tickets and Elaine and them are all in there, he's giving these two young girls these laminates and gave me the quick eye, like, what the hell is he looking at? Like, oh, you know, sketchy look.

And when I got to the show, when they just gave me paper tickets and those two girls were running around with the laminates in the office, so I went two and two together. He gave them my laminates, trying to get over with the girls and just gave me some tickets. All right, so now just add a little alcohol, a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head. And I'm going, that little worm. I go, oh, I know what's going on.

And so I go, I go, so. You were supposed to get laminates, right? But those girls got the laminates when I went in to get. And those girls that he had just met, yes. They were just groupie, okay?

Ring rats kind of thing. Anyways, so I'm like, hey, art, art. He finally walked over. I go, what the fuck, dude? You give me these paper tickets, I can't see anything.

I just want to walk around. And in the back of my mind, I wanted to get their clothes on camera. I was going to do, like, a cameo walk by. You know, I was a kid anyways, or young or ignorant or whatever, unwise. And so I'm walking, and he's like, give me a shrug.

And he walks off in his little tuxedo, and I'm. I'm steaming. And so that goes down. And the first fights go down, and one of the girls, there's like a group of maybe ten people, hey, Tank, you know, in the southern thing, she goes, I don't know, you know, I was expecting something else. This is kind of boring, to be honest with you.

And I'm like, I was part of the show, you know? And I'm like, going, yeah, I understand. I think Gracie or Oleg or somebody fought and they were doing submission, and it was boring. And so I go, let me tell you something. I promise you, I promise you, it's not going to be anything like this.

It's not going to be laying on the ground, rolling around when I fight. I promise you that. You have to believe me. And she goes, well, I hope so, because this, you know, I can't get into my accent. I hope so because this is boring.

And I'm like, no, it's not gonna be anything like that when I get in there. Trust me. And so that was the tone that was set. And more beers. I was drinking beer at that time.

Maybe I was drinking some vodka then. But. So we get back after the show at the bar, and I remembered everybody's, like, sitting around talking about it, and, like, you know, and I went, hey, you know what I forgot? There's a cocktail party going on. And I go, what?

I go, yeah, there's a cocktail party going on. My guy told me about it. Like, I had back pay back, you know, passes and the whole nine yards. I go, but there's a cocktail party with everybody there anyways. So I go, let's go and they're going, well, we're not.

How are we gonna get in? I go, you're fucking with me, man. We can get in. Don't worry. So I went over there.

I had an entourage by that time, believe it or not, I wasn't even fighting. And we walked in, and, you know, they had typical banquet type stuff with silverware and the rolled roast beef and rolls and cocktails. So I was drinking and drinking and drinking, and didn't take long before I started telling them that they were a bunch of pussies and that they didn't know how to fight. They don't even know what the hell is going on. Wait till I get in there.

And Jim Brown, the football player, was an announcer then, and I think he came up in a fatherly way, like, hey, hey, hey, calm down.

Tell me what to calm down. I'll tell you what to calm down. I have any respect at that time. And so things went on like that and ended up taking Jim Brown's.

What do you call those things? Like a derby? His hat off. Yeah, but what's it. What are they called?

David Tank Abbott
I don't know. It's like a hat. I know what it is. Yeah, the word escapes me right now. It's beret.

Joe Rogan
He had a beret that he used to wear all the time. And you took it off his head? I took it off his head and started walking off, and I got about five yards away, and he's all, hey, hey, hey, young man. And I turned around, and I threw it at him, and I felt flung it like a frisbee, and it hit him in his chest, and he caught it, and he looked at me angrily, angrily. And I was joking around, having fun.

That's all. And that might just be the top, the cherry on top. The whole behavior was that the whole night. And we left because it was closing down, and I had my fill of food, and we went back to my room and restarted the party up again. And then I left and came back, and they never called us back or anything.

And I was like, going, hey, man, what the hell's going on? And he's all, what did you do there? And I'm like, this is me. And I go, oh, no. He was shaking his head.

And then that's when art called him and said, hey, that guy is a maniac. He's not only allowed to fight in the show, he's not allowed to be at the show. No effing way. That guy. He's crazy.

And I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me and slowly just shaking his head like, you blew it, dude. So how'd you get back in? I told you, from the guy from the bar. Okay, so that. So they discounted all the things that happened in the past.

That guy made a phone call. Well, it's a smart thing to do. I mean, regardless, if someone's a maniac, it's maniacs board. You just gotta, like, well, have better security. Okay.

The lead up into meeting that guy that got me into a professional wrestling guy. Yeah. Okay, so I get this. This phone call. You're out.

Boom. And we go to this bar, and it's not a nice. It's a bar that normal people don't go to. And so. And we're in there, and there's.

I told Paul and Eddie that I didn't want to go there. I just go, I don't. I don't want to trouble. And I was a well oiled and primed machine for beating ass. And I'm like.

And I had anger issues from being kicked out of my dream. And so they talked me into it, and I go, okay, listen, if anybody bothers me, you guys have to take it. Take care of business, and no problem. And we were supposed to be in a wrestling room training and fighting, but the wind got knocked out of our sails. My sail.

But they were in there for me. And so we're in there, and it's a seedy place, and seedy things happen. This girl starts in with Paul. Paul disables her, and she falls on the ground. Disables her?

Well, he foot swept her because she was clawed. And it's a dirty. You know, it's a bad place. Anyways, so. So that Paul didn't beat up her boyfriend, I came up behind him and got double underhooks underneath him from behind and was pulling him back, and all of a sudden I hear this loud crack and a light flash across my eyes.

I'm like, what the fuck happened? You know, it was like. Sounded like the jukebox machine got broke. You know, the glass on it. What the hell happened, man?

And I let go of Paul, pulling him back, and I turn around, and there's a guy with a broken pull cue standing there. And obviously I put two and two together. Put two and two together, and his eyes were like, oh, that didn't go the way I planned because he's still standing here. And I don't know, because I was knocked silly. But I heard that he got hurt really bad, and that's why the bartender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me from having a tape of me beating up those guys.

He's like, yeah, that guy came into my bar and almost killed somebody. And I have it on videotape. Mmm. I see. That's a long, roundabout thing.

Back to the story. Got it. Yeah. So it was a whole lot of fights and a whole lot of chaos. When you were.

David Tank Abbott
When you were competing, were you, like, what kind of training were you doing if you're drinking that much? Oh, man. See, you know, I really like to address this, and every. People don't think that I train. I ran a marathon.

Joe Rogan
You think that you just get up someday and gonna go run a marathon? Well, there's no way you didn't train, right. Like, you. Look at you. You were very strong.

David Tank Abbott
You're obviously, you know, even though you're a big guy, your cardio wasn't that bad. You. You were definitely doing something. You try. Try.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, no, you try. Try fighting three times on. On that day, the first UFC six. I believe I could be any man. Ah.

Any man on earth that day on. I was in my prime that day. The only reason why I lost is because of big John McCartney and his breaking up the fights. He should have never broke that fight up. Did they break.

David Tank Abbott
So there was no rule at all about standing people up? No, none. I personally believe, and I've broken this down too many times to repeat it, but I'm gonna anyway. I don't think they should ever stand people up. I think if a person could take you down, a person could take you down and keep you down.

Tough shit. Even if it's boring. Like, the whole idea is, like, what's real talk. Take it away from me. About McCartney affecting fights.

Joe Rogan
The first fight they had, don't quote me on this, because I'm not a historian, but I believe it was boss Rudin and Kevin Randleman. That was the first fight they had with judges. John McCartney got in there and broke that fight up twice, so boss could get back up and. And come back and fight him. Were there rules back then about stand ups?

I don't know. I don't think so. That was an interesting. I think it was the first fight. Anybody ever won off their back, really.

But, no, he shouldn't have won. If you watch that fight, and I just watched it recently, Kevin Randleman kicked his ass, beat his ass severely, and John broke it up twice just so he could. To give boss an advantage, a chance. To get back up to his feet. Yeah.

And boss is nothing more than a charismatic. What? Pan craze. Pancras is fake. Listen to Ken Shamrock.

He said it's fake. Well, at worst fights, best, it was predetermined, as Ken said. I think there were some real fights, and I think this is true in all of Japan. There's some real fights, and there's some fixed fights. Like when boss fought Funaki.

David Tank Abbott
Watch that fight. He beat the fuck out of Funaki. That was a real fight. Yeah, I have it. I.

I don't know if you've seen that one, but that is not fake. He beats the fuck out of Funaki. I mean, it's one of the worst beatings anybody's ever taken in pancreas, his boss. Boss had figured out instead of slapping, to throw palms, like punches, you know. Well, I'm not gonna get a lot.

Of people, because I'm not this. Yeah, like, boss Rutin was a bad man. I think. When Bossaka, did you ever see that fight? It's a skills fight, and what have you.

Joe Rogan
I did see the Teoshi Kosaka was. A very good fighter, and that was not. I mean, it was a skillful fight, but it was a brutal fight, but. It was that pancraze. No, there was UFC.

UFC. It was his first fight in the UFC. I haven't seen it. He's had two fights. I think he had two fights in.

The USA, and in my opinion, I just watched it. He lost a random. So he's one, maybe had more. Did he have more than two fights? I can't think of a third.

I think. I think he might have fought the indian guy. Yes, but that was Ruben Villarreal. Right, but that wasn't in the UFC. That was in another organization.

David Tank Abbott
That was like a later fight. Right now, I fought that Ruben whatever guy. That was my last fight. I came off of my hotel bed and walked into the octagon. Did you have a fight with Scott Ferozo in a backyard?

Joe Rogan
Yes. That fight. Fucking great. We played that fight once on the podcast. We're like, this is so crazy.

David Tank Abbott
These guys are so wild. They're just fighting on the lawn. Yeah, no, they called me up and said, I go, yeah, I love fight that guy again. And I flew out there, and they wanted to do it in an empty strip club. How was this organized?

Like, how does that. Some guy named Brian grooms just came. Up with some money and said, hey, I'll pay you guys to fight on a lawn. Well, he wanted to do it in an abandoned strip club. And I told him, I go, dude, he's like, I'm having trouble.

Joe Rogan
I go, I'm not. I'm not gonna get arrested. I value my freedom. And he's like, yeah. I go, I'll fight him anywhere.

He goes, are you doing my backyard? I go, hell, yeah. My backyard. And so we went there, and I don't know what version you saw. He put.

He put some edited version out of it, but he ended up going to the hospital again. I sent him to the hospital the first time, and he went again the second time because of his big mouth. Well, you were punching him on the top, and he was, like, cheering, like he was having a good time. It was kind of a crazy fight to watch. Yeah.

I don't know if he was cheering. It was something like he was saying, whoo. Like, this is great. He's trying to act. Yeah.

David Tank Abbott
Like he's enjoying it. Yeah. Enjoying getting beat up, right. Yeah. Only if a girl's doing it to me.

How many fights do you think you had total, in all of MMA and in street fights in your life, if you had a guest? I have guessed, you know what that's like, asking Wilt chamberlain about how many one night stands he's had, you know. Did he say 10,000? Yeah. So, like, you know, I.

Joe Rogan
Not 10,000. I kind of dabbled around before I got bored and thinking, like, wow, you know, last couple of years, at least two times a week, at least. And then, you know, that's what I'm saying. And that.

David Tank Abbott
Two times a week. And so if you looked at a chart of the average person, how many street fights they get in the two types of weak, that is the smallest percentage of the population that's alive. Yeah. Well, I was into it. What did you enjoy so much about it?

Here's the thing. You're not a dumb guy. You're like, when someone can get to a conversation with you and you want to really start talking about things, you're a very bright guy. But you liked it? Oh, yeah.

It's like your favorite thing. Well, you know, I broke it down. And recently, not really recently, but in towards after my surgery and all these kind of things. You sit around and talk to yourself all day. I come to realize, you know, there's like, a cliche.

Joe Rogan
I'm the bully's bully, that kind of thing.

I used to set up textbook narcissists that come in and display their narcissism around people like, you ever meet somebody that you like? Oh, no, those two can't be around each other. Well, I was the kind of guy. And I've never more of an empath than people know, but I would. My ears would perk up and my eyes would open up when I saw a narcissist that would try to belittle, put people down.

And I would kind of, like, be. My brother's five years older than me, and I kind of maybe, you know, he's very athletic. I come from, like, a football, dad's a football coach, that kind of thing. And so maybe deep rooted, I was resentful of him being older and able to push me around or what have you. And so when I see these narcissists and I be like, why would that guy be doing that for what?

Like, what are you getting yourself over? And so I would put myself in their vicinity, and sooner or later, and if you look at me, like, even today when I walk down the street, people give me the eye, like, yeah, you want some? And I. Do. They really?

Oh, hell, yeah. How are you looking at them? Well, you don't want to know. Like, hey, do you want something? Yeah, exactly.

David Tank Abbott
Instead of looking at your back. Yeah. And I know I just smile on, and it's like. It's not. It's like, are you kidding me?

Joe Rogan
I feel like Billy Jack, you know? Right. Like, you don't know what you're gonna get into. Same, same, back in the day. And I would go, no, no, no.

You know, I wrestled 190 pounds. I wasn't like I was when I was fighting. Once I knew I was fighting, I just ate everything and just got as strong, as big as I possibly could.

So sooner or later, and I go, no, no, no, no. You're gonna slow down there. And soon talking to me, one of those kind of back and forth. And like I say, fighting to me is like walking the dogs. I don't.

Okay, we can go there if you want to. And like I said, I've been in a lot of fights and talk about fighters fortitude. Someone's biting my back or sticking their thumb in my eye socket, it's like, all right, just enjoy your time right now, because you're going to pay the price. And the more you beat people up in the street and in life, the more jaded and you get used to it. Like, you know, I can remember, like, maybe in high school or something, early high school, you punch somebody and give him a black eye, it's like, holy mag.

Wow. That, like, you want me to put my hands on you? I'm. You're gonna pay the price. Especially nowadays with my health being so fragile.

There's a different kind of beating people. You know, when I was a youngster, I used to go to all open wrestling rooms all the time. And I remember this old warrior coach, he said, you know, son, human body can take a lot of pain, a lot of beatings. And it was, I still remember to this day, and I'm what? I'm 59 now.

And it just kind of resonated, ringing in my ears, like when you think, you don't think you can hit them again. And the more they are a smart ass and the more they beg for a beating, I give them what they deserve. Did you always feel that, like you had, you had like, an ethic for, like, when you would get in fights. When you absolutely, you know, you'd only. Get in fights with douchebags?

Well, yeah, but they think, they act like, oh, nothing makes me more upset. And it doesn't have so much that I'm older now, but, like, you're gonna tell me what to do or talk down to me that I used to go, oh, really? Are we going there? Oh, there's a lot of people out there. And as a lie, everybody thinks they're tough.

David Tank Abbott
Well, there's a lot of people out there that are just bluffing and they just, they talk crazy because they think that people are gonna get scared. Yeah. You see it all the time online. You can watch a hundred videos of them doing it to the wrong person. It happens all the time.

You do it to the wrong person. Did you ever see the Joe Schilling one? No. Is one of the greatest of all time. Joe Schilling, who's the man?

He's a world champion kickboxer. Fucking great guy. Joe Schilling is a nice guy. He doesn't start shit with anybody. He's walking through a bar and there's this really aggressive guy who's drunk and he's talking a lot of shit.

And Joe is walking by him. The guy moves and he puts his hands on his shoulders and, excuse me, he passes by and the guy talks shit to him as he passes by. And Joe turns around and looks at him and apparently the guy had been obnoxious all night and Joe had been seeing him being obnoxious all night. And Joe looks at him and says, what the fuck did you say? And the guy flinches at him and Joe just, just two shots and one is on the way down and he's out cold.

Watch this video because it's, that's exactly, it's a classic. Look at this guy. This guy actually wound up suing him and losing. The guy sued him and lost. And for.

So watch. Joe passes him, and then the guy says something. He turns around like, he flinches on. Yeah, wrong guy. Well, the videos.

People love those videos. That's the hundreds of hundreds of people that I've come across. Karma. You're like karma's warrior going out to the bar. Yes.

Knock down douchebags. And. But back in the day, before I became tank. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
All the time, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've never acted that way. I have. Only because I would see them acting that way. I would go and overdo what they.

David Tank Abbott
Were doing just to goad them on. Yes. Do you ever wonder what it would be like if you were. If you were born in a different timeline and you lived in today's UFC? Do you ever think about it, like, when you see how big it is now and you see, like, the different.

Joe Rogan
Rules, you know, these kids and whatever.

I guess they're kids. They're kids to us. Yeah, exactly. They think they put a new spin on the wheel. The wheel's been around for a long time, and you don't understand that.

You. Just because you learned a leg lock doesn't make you tough, and there's some old bruisers out there. They'll take it to you. Yeah, there certainly are. But it's just.

David Tank Abbott
It's a different thing now. It's a different thing with the five rounds, with the world championship fight. You know, it's a different thing. It's, like, more of a skill. I think it would be very.

The problem is people wouldn't enjoy the entertainment value as much because people get tired. You can't really fight for 15 minutes straight. You're gonna get exhausted. But you can fight for 15 minutes if you take a break every five minutes. Oh, there's.

Joe Rogan
There's not. Not a problem. I don't think with rounds, like. But when. When somebody, like, say, McCartney gets to pick and choose when to break up the fight.

David Tank Abbott
Yeah. I don't know. I don't like that. I don't like. I don't like that at all.

It opens the door for corruption, even though I'm a hypocrite. So I will say, like, when I'm doing commentary, they should probably break this up because I'm getting bored. But I really do believe that. I mean, I think if. The thing is, they're allowed to break them up now.

It's part of the rule, set inactivity. But I don't think that should even be in the rules, I don't. I also have another controversial opinion. I think if you take a guy down and you're on top of him at the end of the first round, and you're grounded. Pounding.

I think the second round starts in that exact same position. They have cameras. It's super easy to duplicate. Why they should do it. They should do that here.

Why should you be allowed to start standing up? Which is a hugely advantageous position for a striker, right? Hugely. And you didn't earn it. You did not earn the stand up.

Like, if you got taken down and you got controlled, you never escaped that, and you might not ever escape it if it wasn't for you being stood up and you starting for the next round, who knows? So not only do you get to get up, but you get a whole minute to recover, and then you're started in an advantageous position for yourself. That's not. It's like. It's imbalanced.

It's imbalanced. If a guy is, grappling is a huge part of fighting, and if you're not a good wrestler and you're not a good grappler, and some guy can take you down and hold you down for the whole fight, that's the fight. That's how it should be played out. That's reality. The reality is you never earned a standup.

If you can't figure out a way to sweep that guy, if you can't figure out a way to get an under hook and get back up to your feet, then you stay down. And that should be what fighting is. Even if it's boring, because at least this way, it's realistic. Yeah, absolutely. And like Mark Coleman, ground and pound.

I also think that if you're not touching the cage, as long as you're not touching the cage, needs to head to a ground opponent. I don't think you should be allowed to turtle. I don't think you should be allowed to just Turtle. And a guy sprawled on you, and he's got a hold of your, like, a head and arm, and he's on top. Why wouldn't he knee you in the head?

Of course he would knee you in the head. That's a very effective technique that would end fights. That should be legal as long as you're not touching the cage where you're not stuck somewhere where you can move. You gotta fucking move. You can't stay there.

You can't allow that guy to hold you in that position. If he does, it's just as legitimate as getting the tie clinch and landing. If standing up, it's the same thing. Stalling. Yeah, well, it's.

You can't be in that. You're not safe there. Also touching the ground and avoiding knees to the face. Bullshit. You can't do that.

Like, they should be able to knee you in the face. Like, you. You should not touch the ground, because if you touch the ground, your face is wide open. You should be like this, or you should figure out a way to get out of there, or he's gonna win or he got the best position. You gotta.

It's. There's too many rules that make it less about a fight and more about, like, winning with the rule set. Like, the touching the ground thing is so crazy that guys have a guy clinched up against the cage, and if the guy touches the ground, you can't knee him in the face. Right. That's bananas.

It's literally bananas. The guy standing up chooses to touch the ground so that he doesn't get kneed in the face. Right. That's a crazy. Playing the game part of the rules, that doesn't lend itself to realistic fighting.

That's not fighting. That's not, like, an accurate assessment of what would happen in a real fight if you leave, like, some of the most effective things, other than, of course, eye gouges and nutshots and shit. But if you leave that stuff out, then you're leaving out really effective techniques that would definitely work and probably would end a fight, especially knees to the head, to a grounded opponent at twelve to six elbows. What? How the fuck is that still in there?

I think they're taking that out now, right? Isn't that out now? They were just informing me. They're either either close to taking that out now, or they're. You know where that came from.

They were worried that people break bricks and ice on ESPN, so they banned the twelve to six elbow. It's still. All these years later, 2024. It's still banned. It's fucking crazy.

They vote to remove. Nice. Okay, so this is in January. So is it taken to. Is it into effect already?

Is that it? This might mean this New Jersey. I don't know if it's. I don't know if it's a, like, countrywide, worldwide. Mmm.

If it's ABC. I think. I think it is. I think it is, because Hunter Campbell is the one who told me about it. It was either him or Craig.

Craig Borsari. But do you know the guys who run the UFC now? You ever go? I haven't been. I've been on a medical hiatus.

Yeah. Tell me about this. Because you. They told you you were gonna drink yourself to death, and they were right. I did that.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. No, I didn't. You came close and you came back. Yes. What happened?

Well, you saw what I used to do. I just kept. No, no, I mean, what happened physically to you? Like, what surgery did you have? I got a liver transplant and a kidney transplant.

David Tank Abbott
Holy shit. And I died five times on the table. Holy shit. Did they do both at the same time? No, they did the kidney or the liver first and want to make sure that it took hold, and then months later, they did the kidney.

How old were you when this was going on? Six years ago. Okay. And. But I had.

Joe Rogan
So 53. Yeah. Um, I had, uh, five strokes, too, so sometimes I struggle. It's hard. I was, for a long time, really, really slow.

Like, I could. The strokes? Yeah, it was all on the table, and so, yeah, it was. It was a rough. So do you have to take medication to make sure that the.

David Tank Abbott
Your body doesn't reject the organs? Yes. Does that fuck with your immune system? Well, it is about the immune. Right.

But, I mean, does it fuck with you? Like, do you get colds? I will always wonder. No, but, you know, what happened is, like, I almost died from that, too. I was two days away, according to the doctor, I got roundworm infection.

Joe Rogan
That was, they think, hanging around for a long time. And once I got on anti rejection medicine, they didn't. It didn't have any resistance. Right. So it started flourishing, and they didn't know what was going on.

And I was like, no, you don't understand. I'm dying. Not literally, but from pain. And they're like, going, we don't know what's wrong with you. Anyways, I couldn't take it anymore, so I ended up doing 30 more days.

And this is after a while of being home. And I was actually going to the gym, crawling around on the wrestling mat, doing that kind of stuff.

Turns out the doctor that saved me, Doctor Toto, he saved me twice, two different surgery type things. But he did a biopsy of my bowels and stuff and found that I had roundworm. And I was. He's like, you know where you got this from? And I'm like, I have some guesses.

And so where'd he get roundworm?

Well, I don't know. I went to Costa Rica a few times, but I don't know. Is it like a tropical worm? Yeah. Roundworm is like an intestinal thing, okay?

David Tank Abbott
So it's probably from something you ate somewhere. Right, right. And so now it's just overrunning your body. Yeah. Slowly.

Joe Rogan
And I was in the hospital for my. After I did like four months. The first time. The second time I went to the emergency room, I couldn't take anymore, twice. And I was there for 30 days on morphine.

And it was very painful, so I developed a chant of, pain is temporary. Pain is temporary. And. Oh my God. For a month.

I finally did a. And cut me up and did my bowels and found that I had roundworm. And two days of medicine and I was better. Wow. Yeah.

I imagine people dying from that must not be very nice. Yeah, I talked to this dude once who told me that like, 90% of people that live in tropical climates, 90% have some sort of parasite in their body. Well, possible. And.

David Tank Abbott
Want to hear a nutty one? This is what I was going to say is, okay, because I didn't say it.

Joe Rogan
So when we went to Japan for the first time, I was there with a brazilian fighter and he was eating a lot of food. A lot of food. And Isaacs, Bob, all them are like, jesus crazy. See how much food that guy eats? And I'm like, who?

I go, I'll ask a guy. I'm giving a rat's ass. What are you gonna do? And so I said, hey, why are you eating so much? He's, oh.

Oh. He said, I go, you're on the gas. What's going on? And he's, oh. I'm like, yeah, on the gas, huh?

And he's, no no, it's the worm. The worm. I'm like, what the hell is he talking about? Some type of portuguese thing? And he was in front of everybody.

And when I was in the hospital, David Isaacs came and saw me quite a bit. And he's like, don't you remember that time? He was saying, why? Why are you eating so much? The worm.

The worm. He goes, it's a round worm. And I'm like, wow, I never thought of that. Could be possible. We were always eating dinners with all the japanese people and everything.

David Tank Abbott
Well, you could definitely get worms from food, you know, if you get tapeworms or round worms, like, that's a motherfucker. Yeah, well. Almost killed me. Infectious disease doctor came in with his badge and everything. He goes.

Joe Rogan
He goes, yeah, you're down to like a couple days left. Jesus Christ. Especially with the medication you were on, right? Yeah, the worms are flourishing. So you get rid of that and they give you medication and now you have to get a kidney transplant.

David Tank Abbott
After the liver transplant. Piece of cake. That was easy. That was really easy. So the liver one was the bad one?

Joe Rogan
Yeah, I did. Over, over 120 days in ICU. Whoa, what is that like? Oh, but, you know, I was laying there and my wife told me, obviously, that they were saying it's time for you to start thinking about taking them off, unplugging me. It's that it's getting to that time.

And she said, this is like the surgical ICU floor. Like, they could do surgery right there in your room that you're in. And that's Cedar Sinai, Beverly Hills. Yay. Anyways, she's like the doctor.

Doctor Toto. He came at her and said, hey, it's time for you to really start thinking about, does he want to live like this? I guess she told me I was just laying there with a tracheotomy with my eyes open and nothing moving. And she was there.

Anyway, so David Isaacs came there and they are gone. Yeah, it was, he goes, I'm gone away for the weekend. I'll be back Monday. And so they were talking about it, holding my hands. And David Isaac said, have you ever seen awakening?

I haven't seen it. He goes, it was like, awakening. He goes, you had our hands. And he goes, you just, like, your eyes came open and you started shaking your hands up and down.

And so they didn't unplug me and I'm still here. Wow, was that close.

David Tank Abbott
And you died five times. Yeah. Do you have any weird memories of that? You know, when you have cirrhosis? Went to the doctor's hospital and made it out by my house and got a specialty doctor, digestive, whatever, GI doctor.

Joe Rogan
So he put me in touch with cedar cyanide. You got to have a sponsor, someone to sponsor you to be allowed into the organization system, their transplants. And so I went there and there's like a, you know, meetings and association type. You know, we're gonna take you on. And then they say, okay, we'll see you in two weeks.

You cannot drink anymore. Do not drink. You can't do it. Not even a little bit. Nothing.

You're done. Not a problem. And so I'm like, after a year, I'm like, man, what the hell is going on? I mean, these go there and they take your blood and go, okay, see you later. Well, till the last time I went there and you go in these little rooms and you got these like, bed type chairs, almost like dentist chairs.

And I'm sitting there and they walk out and they take your blood and then she walks in, the nurses and the doctor assistants, and all of a sudden they get this panicked look on their face. And mind you, I've been doing this for, like, a year, year and a half, and I've met with the doctors, and the doctors said to me, he goes, I'll do surgery on you, but not until you lose weight. He gave me, like, 50 pounds to lose. I lost, like, 75, you know, so they knew I was serious about the whole nine yards. And so there was like, I'm sitting there in the chair kind of like I am right now, and usually it's kind of like, hey, how you doing?

What's going on? Right? But they were much more serious. Very serious. And I'm, like, looking at my wife, like, what's going on here?

And, you know, she basically died with me during this whole time. I'm like, what's going on? Something's not right. And she's like, I go, go out there and see what's going on. And she comes back and goes, oh, we're not going home.

I'm like, what are you talking about? She goes, your kidneys aren't working. And I'm like, oh, okay. And anyways, so I'm, like, looking at it, like, what the. What the fuck?

You know? What's going on? And was, like, the most alone I've ever felt in my life, except for her and the doctor and the everybody are not making eye contact with me, not doing anything, and a gurney comes in, and they throw me on a gurney, and I'm like, hey, hey, what's going on? And they're like, they don't hear you. They don't see you.

You just become like a log. You know what I mean? You're sensory void. You're non existent. And I remember being pushed out of the transplant centers across the street by the hallway underneath tunnel type thing.

I remember laying there, and the fluorescent lights above me look like freeway lane lights lines. And I just remember laying there just going, oh, man, this is. This is a real deal you're dying for. Consciously. It was like I died.

It was like no one talked to me. No one heard me. No one saw me except for my wife bouncing back and forth, trying to. Hey, hey, what's this? You'll be all right, all right.

You'll be all right. And I'm like, just being pushed down this hallway to the hospital. And I remember getting pushed into this room with all these machines. It looks like the movies. And I'm like, wow.

And I remember just laying on the bed there and just gone, oh, oh, oh. And then my wife's like, you know, like, comforting me. And I'm like, wow. And to me, that's when I died. And then I woke up with Isaacs and my wife there and.

But I guess I was in that room for six days on the machines, and they were waiting for a transplant to come in. And one came in and told my wife we got one. And she's like, oh, thank God. You know, and we're gonna do surgery. Well, it turned out somebody else was waiting for one also.

And they were a better match. And my wife said, they're a better match. She's an angel.

She said, let them have it. So the doctor came back in. She said, like, 6 hours later. And he said, all right, we're going to go to surgery. And she's all, I think you're messed up, even though you shouldn't be, but I think you messed up.

Cause we gave that other liver to somebody else. No liver. Okay. The kidney is later. My kidneys stopped working.

David Tank Abbott
Okay. So they put me on dialysis, I guess, and waited for six days. And so she's all, know that they gave that liver to the other person that was a better fit. And he's all, this never happens. But we got another one.

Joe Rogan
This never happened, ever. And so they did me, and I was in a catatonic state for weeks and weeks and weeks. And then they were talking about unplugging me, the dialysis machines and all that kind of stuff. And because I'm gonna go away for the weekend, this is obviously conveyed to me from my wife and take the weekend to think about what you want to do, because, you know, this could be the best he gets right here. And she said the whole floor knew that was talk happened.

And she said, everybody, that she would walk down the floor with their mood changed. She said it was total darkness. It was like she'd walk down the hall and everybody usually, hi, Sally. Hey, how you doing? And she said they were just like, oh, poor girl.

David Tank Abbott
Right? And then Isaacs came in and she said they were both holding my hands. And I woke up. And how much that. How's this experience changed your perspective about just life, knowing that it almost went away?

Joe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm a totally different person. Completely.

David Tank Abbott
That's what you're telling me when I. When I first saw you today. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not.

Joe Rogan
I. I used to be like a.

I hate to say it, narcissistic. Like, I'm gonna conquer the world and now you can't mess with me, and now it doesn't matter. I didn't care. Oh, you have that. Good for you.

I'm glad for you sometimes. Maybe before all this, I'd be like, oh, man, that guy. Do that. Oh, man, I got to do that. I'm better than that.

I can do that. I. Now it's like, good for you, man. Go. Go out and mow down.

David Tank Abbott
Isn't that a way better way to interface with life? Absolutely. I wish more people could learn that lesson. It took the hard way for me. But it's so unfortunate that so many people go around angry at other people's lives.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. And thinking that they deserve what that other person has. It's such a waste of time. 100%. It's so bad for you, too.

David Tank Abbott
You're carrying around just a bunch of extra bullshit for no reason, and you're doing it to yourself. Yes. And, you know, I. With Dana, I was in a dark, dark, dark place, and just. There's some medical things about that.

Joe Rogan
When you get ammonia in your blood and it makes you crazy, like, they had, like, a warning thing around my room. Like, watch out for this guy. Like, I guess I kicked a physical therapist in the chest and all stuff. I was ripping my cords out of me. But it's called encephalopathy.

And I would just like to my poor wife, to people that I've known for years, I just. Talking crazy nonsense, like, almost like Alzheimer's type. They don't. And they would tell my wife, like, he's got ammonia in his blood and his liver doesn't work, and it's poison in his brain, and he doesn't know what he's doing. And I believe that I left, according to my wife, because she would listen to me on the phone.

I leave Dana choice messages. Dana White. Yeah, it's not funny. It's funny if you realize how sick I was. I thought I was gonna die.

I mean, yeah, you know, I. I was living the rock and roll lifestyle. I used to joke around rock and rollers couldn't even hang with me once I got into WCW. The whole those guys, live rock and roll lifestyle, it's like an athletic rock and roll lifestyle. And I, as you can imagine, pushed it to the floor and pedal in the metal, man, I was getting down.

David Tank Abbott
Was there ever a time where you were realizing that if I keep going, yes, it's gonna. When was that? When did it start feeling like that?

Joe Rogan
I use this well when I was wrestling. I mean, it was the rock and roll lifestyle like if fly on a jet, boom, boom, boom go for eight day loop fly home, do your laundry, do your thing. And that kept me from really taking off crazy. Once WCW got sold and my contract was still valid and I had money coming in a whole bunch of time. So leaving Las Vegas with Nick Cage, why?

He's the agent and he's, he gets fired from that show, or not show, but talent agency. And he's like, ben Saunderson. And he's like, what are we gonna do now? Go to Vegas. I was Ben Saunderson after WCW was done, and I wasn't leaving every week to go somewhere new.

I was like, what am I going to do now? I guess I'll just drink myself to death. Not consciously, but that's what you were doing. I was getting down. So that's when the liver started failing?

No, my liver started failing when I went back to the UFC. That's when I held on, man. I pulled physical feet. But when Dana called me to come back for the, to do my comeback thing, I'm like, sure. And I kind of got into shape.

Shape.

But he flew me out to Atlantic City, I believe, and he goes, okay, need you to be down here tomorrow. We're gonna do a shoot, this whole nine yards. And I pride myself on being responsible and doing what I'm supposed to do and being there on time. I'm one of those kind of people. And so I go to wake up and this is like, I'm coming back kind of thing.

And I was supposed to be at this shoot. I could not. I was like, could not get out of bed. I was that sick. And I almost missed the whole show, like, just out of.

Just crawling to get there. And I got there halfway through the show, and his agent or his person that worked for him came up to me and goes, oh, here you are. Where were you? And I'm going, oh, man. I just didn't feel very good.

I was. I was awful, like, nauseous, sick all the time. I think that's when your liver was starting to fail. Yeah. And there's, there's stages, and that's kind of called a compensated liver.

Decompensated liver. It was a compensated liver. And it's like all the things where your liver stops working and you get sicker and sicker, and that's when you start turning yellow. They would pump my stomach or my cavity, pull out, like a couple two liter things all the time. It's just poison just running through your body and, like, encephalopathy going through your brain.

I was a complete crazy. Like, you know, Ben Saunderson is the guy in leaving Las Vegas. I make him look like a. A kindergartener. I was that out of control.

I was insane. I can look back and just go. Have you thought about writing a book? I have written a book. And I'm glad you brought that up, man.

Thank you. Is it out? Yes. It's a trilogy. I wrote 900 page trilogy.

Really? Yeah. Did you bring it? Did you bring the book? Yes, I did.

It's in my bag over there. Three of them. The first one's called Bar Brawler. And it's about when it's 300 plus pages long. It's about how the mid eighties and early nineties how people used to be and how there's some really graphic fights in it.

Who. Some people think it's an autobiography, but it's written as a novel. Okay. That's a good way to do it. Yes.

And the main character is Walter Fox. And Walter Fox. It's how Walter Fox goes through his life. Beating people up at bars and all that. And ends up fighting in a show called NHB.

And they call him crazy Fox. And it's how Walter Fox through all these trials and tribulations ends up as crazy Fox at the end of it. It's a trilogy. It's 900 pages long. Plus.

David Tank Abbott
You write all this by yourself? Yes. Page. Every single page. I have a ghost writer.

Joe Rogan
I don't have anything. Just sit in front of a laptop, write it up by hand. I scribbled it out on a spiral notebook. Bunch of them. Yeah.

And I hunt and packed the whole 900 plus pages. Wow. Three books. Why didn't you just learn how to type? I.

I cuz I'm a dom. You know, Hunter S. Thompson never really learned how to type. I rest. Thompson was hunting and pecking when he was writing.

David Tank Abbott
Like fear and loathing in Las Vegas. I'm telling you this especially if you're a fight fan. It's called before there are rules. And it's awesome. I'm pumping myself up.

Joe Rogan
But if you want to know how real fighter in my eyes before there were rules. Yes. That's the third book. The second book is cage fighter. And the first book is Barbara.

And it goes pretty much the whole what we've been discussing. It goes through all of those things. And where can people get these books? They're on Amazon. Okay.

And it's. Some people think it's an autobiography. Like I said. Exactly. Right.

Was it plausible deniability? Yeah, exactly. Fiction, folks. And there's like the. There's a fighting promoter, matchmaker, and his name is Big Bart Shady.

And of that. Of that show, the NHB show, the referee's name is Winchell Duncan.

And he's a little. A little guy with a big ego. And so you could draw parallels, but I don't tell you how to think, but it's actually how Walter Fox got all the way through the bar scenes and everything that I discussed. It's how Walter Fox ended up becoming crazy Fox. Have you done a audiobook for this?

Yes. Is it. Did you read it? I listened to it. Okay.

David Tank Abbott
Somebody else read it. Somebody else read it. No, it's. Oh, yeah, no, it's on AI. Oh, AI did it.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's pretty good. I was. I was worried about the inflection and everything. Right. It came out really good.

David Tank Abbott
Now. They're very sophisticated now. It's pretty incredible what they can do now. It's. It's awesome.

David, thank you very much for being here, man. You're an american original. You really are. And it's been cool to know you all these years and to, you made the UFC a very exciting thing in the early days. You were one of the big reasons for its early success.

Joe Rogan
Yes, I believe so. I think so, too. I think everybody thinks so. And I appreciate your brother and good health to you. I hope you feel better.

David Tank Abbott
Thank you very much. Anybody, website, anywhere else people can see your stuff? Oh, yeah. No, just Amazon. Before their rules.

Do you have a website? Yeah. Well, what's it called? Instagram. Instagram?

Joe Rogan
What's the Instagram tank dot. Abbott. Okay. Yeah. All right.

I think, anyways, yeah, like I said, I've had five strokes, so it's amazing that I'm even talking, so. But what was I gonna tell you? There's my struggle. I don't know. We were talking about website, Instagram.

David Tank Abbott
Buy the books on Amazon. Your Instagram, David. No, tank Abbott. Oh, yeah. Before there are rules, the first word.

Joe Rogan
Like I said, I wrote every single page of this book. The first word is misspelled. So all you narcissists.

David Tank Abbott
Preemptively blocking people, getting mad at you for misspelling things. No, no. I. Like, I put it out there as bait for all those narcissists to tell me how dumb I am. Well, you could have just corrected it.

Joe Rogan
I misspelled things all the time. No, he's always playing games. Yes. All right, well, thanks, brother. Thanks for being here, man.

David Tank Abbott
It's great to see you again. It's a pleasure. And thank you for having me best of health. Bye, everybody.

Joe Rogan
Bye, everybody.

David Tank Abbott
Bye, everybody.

JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

Primary Topic

Episode Summary

Main Takeaways

Episode Chapters

1. Introduction to Tank Abbott

2. The Early Days of MMA

3. Personal Struggles and Legal Issues

4. Philosophical Reflections on Fighting

Actionable Advice

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Transcript