#2163 - Freeway Rick Ross

A
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Good to see you again, my friend. Man, been a long time. It's been. Yeah, like nine years. Yeah, we were talking about it.

B
Yeah, yeah. Been a while. Yeah, yeah. For people who don't know, I've been waiting.

I was like, you know, I dialed your number and it wasn't working no more. I was like, okay. He called out about eight different numbers. He'll call me. I said, he'll call me.

A
Yeah. For people who don't know, the real Rick Ross is not a rapper, just like your shirt says. And you know who inspired that shirt? I think I did. You did?

B
And you don't even know the whole story. What's the story? Well, you know, after that day, you told me that I needed a shirt, right? Yeah. You know, I was really homeless then.

A
Really? You didn't know that part of the story? Well, I didn't go around like, hey, man, I'm homeless.

B
So I was technically homeless. I was staying in a vacant apartment, me and my old lady and my two kids. And when I told you that I was doing bad, you was like, man, you need a t shirt. And, you know, I left the show. I was a little hot.

I was like, damn, that motherfucker told me I need a t shirt and I'm fucked up. But he know I handle money. He know I'm a thinker, why he didn't help me. And so I'm walking down the street downtown, and this kid come up to me, and he was like, hey, rick, I heard you on Joe Rogan the other day. And I was like, yeah.

He was like, yeah, and I got a t shirt idea for you. I said, oh, shit, another one of those motherfuckers.

And I said, what's your idea? And he said, the real Rick Ross is not a rapper. And I said, corny is a motherfucker. But I kept an open mind, and I said, okay, let's do it. The kid did it.

I go to him a couple weeks later, and he give me 100 t shirts. I sell a whole hundred the same day. Wow. And then something popped in my head and said, why don't you call Joe? That's when your number was still the same.

And I called you, you called me to the show and you put my t shirt on, and the t shirt went crazy. My paypal. Cause, you know, I ain't saw you since then, so I never got to tell you. Thanks for telling me to do a t shirt. Even though I was mad at you.

A
Why were you mad at me? Cause I was like, why the fuck? Nobody helped me, you know, I was looking for somebody to come and say, hey, man, here's 100,000. See what you can do with it. A million dollars, see what you can do with it.

B
That's what I was looking for when I got out of prison. I was like, somebody's gonna come and say, man, I know you can handle money, let's do something. So I was looking for that. I was not looking for a t shirt, but, you know, in one of my favorite books, it might come through the back door. Don't look at the front door, look at the back door.

So I did that. And when you put that t shirt on, man, my paypal went like this here, and I was like, my old lady, she was like, man, that paypal was going crazy. I was like, that motherfucker broke.

I said, go check the bank account. And she went and checked the bank account, and it's like $18,000, $20,000 in there. And I was like, oh, my goodness, we finna get apartment. Wow. So my whole life changed from there, from there.

I took that money, and I did this. You wrote a book? I had already wrote the book. Oh, I wrote the book in prison. Oh, when I had a life sentence, you know, I wrote this book.

This was kind of like my message to the world about what it takes to become a drug dealer, how you become a drug dealer. I wrote it for kids so they would know if they started to be a drug dealer, what they was gonna run into, like a how to manual. Like a how to manual. Cause I said nobody ever wrote a book about. Well, I look at it like this, Joe, you know, we always talk to kids about why not to sell drugs, but why not give them all the information and they make their own decision?

Okay, you sell drugs. Yeah, you might get a big house, you might get the cars, but at the end of that rainbow is some cufflinks and prison sentence. So I felt that you wanted to. Give them all the information. I wanted to give them all the information, so I wrote this, and I brought you one as a gift.

A
Beautiful. Thank you very much. Your story is incredible. And for people who don't know, just because, you know, we did a couple podcasts in the past, but just for people that don't know, you unknowingly were, during the whole contras versus the sandinistas war, the United States government, or some people inside the United States government, were selling crack in the hood and probably other places, too. And they were using that to fund this war.

They were using the money to fund this war. And you were the one who was moving the drugs, correct? A lot of it. And you didn't know. You had no idea.

B
I was the dumb kid from south central, man. I never read a book you couldn't read. I couldn't read at that time, which is so crazy. Let me keep going. So you get arrested, you go to jail, you learn how to read in jail, learn how to become a lawyer in jail.

A
Figure out that the way they did you with three strikes was bullshit. Because it's supposed to be three different instances of you being arrested. They used the three instances of whatever they tried to pin on you, correct. From one case. And so you got out of jail.

B
I got out of jail. You would still be in jail right. Now, right now if you didn't. If I would've listened to my lawyer, too. Wow.

Cause he told me that that law didn't apply to me. I don't know. You know, it's funny. Cause I said my judge and my lawyer and the prosecutor couldn't read.

I mean. Cause it was really plain and simple in the law, the way they explained it, the most important thing was an intervening arrest. Not that you get convicted three times, but was an intervening arrest. Cause they're saying that, you know, if you get a kid and he does three different things and you whoop him one time, that's for all three, you know. Now if he does something and you whoop him one time, and that whooping is over, and then he goes and does it again, and you whoop him for the same thing again, now, you whooped him twice, right?

So the third time, that would be a three strike, and that's what the law meant. And they just couldn't understand that, like, oh, no, that don't apply to you because you had a conviction in Texas and you had a conviction in Cincinnati, and you had a conviction here, but they were all the same time. You whooped me one time. And so I get two more whoopings before, you know, before it's a three strike. It's kind of a crazy story.

A
I mean, it's a very crazy story because, yeah, you were a young kid. And it's getting more crazy, man. I've been having so much fun, Joe. Wow. What's been going on?

B
And you know what? And I owe you a lot of the credit, man. Cause you really, like. You kind of set me off, you know, you know, like, I don't know where I would have been had I not did that fucking t shirt, you know what I'm saying? That fucking t shirt paid our rent, man.

A
Wow. I mean, you know, and my fucking kids now playing tennis job. My daughter's so fucking good at tennis. That's amazing, man. She's like, twelve.

Well, you were a great tennis player. I was good. I'm talking about, like, really good. They saying she, like, serena good. Really?

B
Yeah. Wow. Like. And I try not to, like, you know, because it's my daughter, so I gotta, like, keep myself honest, you know what I'm saying? But I'm seeing her do things that I was doing at 16 and 17, and she's just turned twelve, and she's doing those things right now.

A
Wow. And I'm like, wow, could she be this good, you know? That's incredible. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm just having so much fun, man.

B
It's like my life has been good, you know? If, you know, if I died today, you know, I wouldn't be mad. I just want to see them, too, grow up to be 2030 years old. And I've had a great life, man. I met some great people and, you know, I had some.

I done had some things happen to me, too. And it ain't all been rosy, you know, my documentary, I think, was we working on a documentary when I did you the last time? I don't know. Well, you know, they took the documentary from me. What do you mean?

A
What happened? Well, you know, we shot the documentary, and when it was time to put it out, we finished it. My two partners who put up most of the money got into an argument, and I went with the one who I thought was right. So we go to court, and the court ruled that Mark Levin and Mike Mongree one in court, and they had all the say so about the documentary. I had no say so, no accounting.

B
So they sold the documentary to Altazir, rented it to Altazir, rented it to Netflix, and I got $0 out of it. Oh, my God. The judge said I had no accounting rights, you know, no right to see how much money was being made on. A documentary on your life. Did I put money.

I took money, t shirt money and put it to the documentary. I put about $15,000 in my own money into making it. We spent about 120,000 making a documentary. And here I am on Netflix on the front page, too. I made the front page of Netflix for, like, a year.

A
Wow. And I got $0 out of it. And then John Singleton, you know, he was working with me on the movie. He take all the stuff that we did from the movie and do this show called Snowfall, which was one of the biggest tv shows on tv. And I got $0 out of that.

What? Yeah. Yeah. So John Singleton did me like that, man. No way.

B
Yes. He went with me to the premiere. Me and him went to the premiere, the documentary together. The day of the premiere, I got my first books from that book there. And I had my demo books.

He bought one for a $100, which I thought was like, yeah, I'm gonna do good with this book. A $100 with one book. So, um, he took that book and he did Snowfall, and he didn't count me as an advisor. He didn't count me in at all. Nothing.

A
Did you talk to him? I saw him one time. He changed his number and I saw him one time about eight months before he died. And he was like, man, I owe you money. But, you know, he was probably.

B
He was in south central LA, in the wrong area. So he finally probably said that just. To get the fuck out. I got you. Let me get out of here.

So I totally understood. But other than that, you know, it's been all right. There's a lot of people that disappoint you in this life. They do. They do.

A
It's very unfortunate. I do not understand why people do that. Because that you think you're getting over, but you're not. That carries. That stays in your soul.

It really does. It'll haunt you. It'll haunt you forever. Yeah. It's better somebody over.

B
It's better to be good, man. Yeah, it's better to be good. You know, you're a great story because a lot of people write people off, man. You know? And there's a lot of people out there in the world that want to think that because someone did something that's illegal or someone did something that's bad, that makes them a bad person.

A
And I think that's ridiculous. And I think you. I totally agree. You can't imagine what it's like to be someone unless you've lived their life. You don't know the circumstances that they fell into.

You don't know the life that they were born into. You don't know. You don't know. And there's a lot of good people out there that just get fucked. Made a bad mistake, made a bad mistake in a bad situation, bad neighborhood, bad life.

A lot of things just. And people see things different. You know. What you think is bad? Because of the circumstances that he comes from, he doesn't think it's bad, right.

Cause it's normal. It's normal. It's normal. Absolutely. Absolutely.

B
And that was kind of the case. You know, I wanted to be a drug dealer, you know. Cause all the pictures I saw drug dealing was, you know, look who I was doing drugs in the eighties. Everybody. All the entertainers, you know, so I wanted to be in entertainment.

A
Well, not only that, all the entertainers were talking about how they sold drugs. Jay Z, ice T, ice cube, everybody. But they don't look at those guys. As bad, but it's crazy. Those guys, they could be on CNN.

Those guys can be interviewed everywhere. The red carpet. Everybody loves them now. I used to be a drug dealer. That's amazing.

Ice t. I don't know if ice T was a drug dealer. You know, they rap about it, you know. I mean, it was a big thing, you know? But they don't believe.

B
They don't. I guess they don't believe their stories. They believe it is just okay. Because now they're popular artists, now they're famous. So they broke through.

A
So when you break through and you're selling millions of records and people come to see you in arenas, and everybody's singing along to your shit, somehow another. It's okay. Like, you're absolved of all your crimes and all your sins, and you're welcome in society because you're very popular. Yeah, it's very weird. It's very weird.

So people are so quick to write people off. I think it's part of it is because people are afraid to be written off themselves, so they want to do it to other people. I really do. You want some coffee? Some water?

You got water right here. There you go. It's. You know, it's funny, we've done a lot of work with this guy, Josh Dubin, who used to work with the innocence project. And we just, through this podcast, have gotten people out of jail that were wrongly convicted.

A bunch of people. And then we had one dude on who wasn't wrongly convicted, but he got convicted for 50 years for pistol whipping somebody, a drug dealer who owed him money, someone who stole money from him, pistol whipped his dude, wound up going to jail for 50 years, gets out. They reduced his sentence to 25 years. Josh brought him in to show someone who can be rehabilitated. Someone's like, a month later, he gets out, cuts some dude's head off and gets caught.

Gets caught on security camera with a blonde wig on. The whole thing was so crazy. But the dude was. We were hanging out with that guy that day. Took him to the comedy club that night.

It's like, it doesn't always work out. And then also, you know, the system itself, once you're inside, once you're a part of the system, man, that can fuck you up. You do 25. I mean, how many years did you do in there? I did 20 years and three months.

Wow. Yeah. So, you know, the system is. And you're absolutely correct, the system can either make you or break you. You know, I was mad when I first went to jail, you know?

B
But then, you know, I started analyzing my life, and, you know, I wanted to know how I got there, you know, what are you doing here? You know, this wasn't part of the plan. Right, right. And I just figured I made some bad turns. You know, I listened to some people that for the most part, loved me to death, you know, would have died with me.

And they gave me what they had to give me, you know? And what they had to give me was the drug game. Yeah. It's just so crazy that you were connected to this enormous story with Oliver north and Ronald Reagan. You know, Ronald Reagan had to testify about it, you know?

A
I mean, the whole thing was really insane. It was. It was an insane cultural moment because I remember, I was young at the time. I remember watching it all play out on tv and seeing how this insane story was playing out, that they were selling drugs. What?

The government was involved in the drug game so that they could. When Gary Webb came and told us about this, I could not believe it, you know, like, no, not Ricky Ross. You know? You're talking about Ricky Ross, right? The guy who couldn't read in school.

B
The guy who couldn't get out of high school, who was pretty good at tennis, but he couldn't make it in tennis. You know what I'm saying? Now you're telling me that he was working with the White House, with Oliver north and George Bush and Ronald Reagan and crazy. And then the CIA come to my cell, and Maxine Waters come to my cell, and what all these people. It's just like, for me, it was unbelievable.

But even when I first went to jail, before all of the stuff hit the fan, you know, one of the guys that went to elementary school with me, he came up and he said, man, I heard the stories, but I couldn't believe it was you. You was the poorest kid in the school. Like, you and your brothers used to change pants and you had holes in your tennis shoes, and you used to put tennis balls on your shoes so your feet wouldn't be on the ground. And that was really you. And I was like, yeah.

He was like, man, you used to make millions of dollars. So it was one of those stories that, you know, you really had to see it to believe it. We had Michael Rupert on the podcast back when he was alive. Michael Ruper was the cop that I knew. Michael.

A
Yeah, Michael testified on C SPAN. He was at one of those C SPAN hearings and testified that he witnessed the CIA selling drugs in south central Los Angeles. It is one of the craziest videos. Michael was courageous. I read his book.

Yeah, which one? I don't remember. It was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wrote that, and then he did that.

That book, that movie, rather documentary collapse, that scare the shit out of people. Did you ever see that movie? I didn't see the movie. The movie was just him sitting there, chain smoking, sitting in a chair, explaining how the whole system was going to fall apart, wind up not being correct. But it was mostly about oil and mostly about the way the economy is run and the way our government is, the way everything's structured.

We are on the verge of collapse. And he was telling people back then, like, you better get ready. You better get ready for everything to fall apart. Well, I mean, if you go on the streets right now and you see the homeless problem that we having around the country, you know. Cause I travel the whole country now, you know, I'm doing motivational speaking.

B
And so I'm working with different homeless organizations. One of the main ones I'm working with is out of Oakland, Lulu House. And they're helping homeless people get off the streets. It is so bad out here, man. I mean, it's like, worse than ever.

Like, some of these places that we go. And I would be afraid to go there without a gun. And it's like a third world country. It's like a jungle. They got cardboard boxes and crates and tents and makeshift shantytowns.

Plastic. And it's like miles of these places. And Oakland is. Oakland's crazy. Oakland is terrible.

A
It's so crazy. I watched a video about it the other day where these people were driving. They were documenting it and driving down Oakland, down the worst areas, where these people have these shantytowns set up, these tent towns set up, and it's just open air drugs and violence and no police presence and no help and no nothing. And this isn't America. And this is why we have $175 billion to send overseas to help them help people in Ukraine, help people in Israel.

We don't have anything to clean this problem up, this massive problem. And all those people, all those people out there are wasted potential. All of them. All of them. Who knows how many of those people, if they had a little bit of help, if they got the right counseling, they got the right this, the right that, they started to get a path towards a good life, they could turn it around.

B
I mean, look, I was like that. Yes. You know, I was one of those people eight, nine years ago, just out of prison. And Joe, you know, when I was in prison, I educated my. I read over 300 books while I was in prison.

Because I didn't want to come out and get into the same thing that put me in jail. So what I wanted to do, I never had a job. You know, I never had a job. Right now, today, I've never had. I mean, you know, I get paid for doing speaking engagements and stuff, but I'm saying I've never had a job where I punch a clock or I had to fill out an application.

None of that stuff, because I couldn't fill out an application before I went to prison. And now, you know, I'm not gonna fill out now. I'm not gonna fill out an application. But I had all this potential, but I had nobody to give me a boost, you know, to say.

And that's one of the things that I was saying about Lulu House that they're doing, is they got housing for you where people get out of jail, they can go stay there for a while. They give them clothes, they feed them. Because sometimes you need those type of things to, you know, my break was you putting on that damn t shirt.

Had I not got that break, I don't know where I would be at right now. And, you know, I wasn't gonna sit around and let my kids be hungry. You know, I had two. I had two new babies. You knew, I had two new babies when we did that show.

A
I don't remember. Yeah, I had two new babies. Wow. Cause my kids right now, they're 13 and twelve. So at that time, they probably was like three, maybe four, four, like three years old, two years old.

B
So they was really new. So me getting that money coming in was like heaven sent, you know? Like, yes. You know, I got a way to get me some traction now. But without that kind of traction, you know.

And most of those people, they don't have the opportunity to do a t shirt for themselves. So, you know, we need to set up programs where these people can get a fresh start. Yeah. And that can be done. It could be done.

A
You know, it's funny, we we asked AI. We had a episode here. We were talking to chat GPT. Have you done any of that? You messed around with chat GPT or AI or anything like that?

It's kind of scary. Yeah. Kind of scary. Yeah. It's I think we're real close to it being, like, a life form.

We're real close to there being an artificial life form that's more intelligent than human beings that we've created. But we asked it, like, how would you solve the crime problem? How would you solve the homelessness and all the situations? And it basically laid out this plan, and one of the things would be re energizing communities and helping, taking places like these shanty towns in Oakland, set up community centers, police presence, do something to stop the crime, do something to try to educate people, do something. Community centers to give people a trade, a craft, something where they can move forward.

There's a place out here, loaves and fishes, right? Is that what it's called? We actually went to the house yesterday. There's a community that they have here. I think it's called community first.

Hold on a second. I'm gonna find out real quick. Yeah, this, we went there yesterday. I took my family there yesterday. And community first village is this thing that my friend Alan Graham has put together.

And he's got right now there's, I think he's at like, a thousand acres. And they, they build homes for these people. They have all these programs for these people. They have gardens. These people are making art and selling it.

This one woman made a chess set. She sold it for $10,000. These people are incredible artists. There's a lot of creative, interesting people that just don't know what to do or where to turn. And they've been doing drugs their whole life.

They're all fucked up and they're homeless, and they've got records, and they don't know what to do. And he's helping them, and he's helping them in a really beautiful way, and it can be done. Well, I'd like to connect with him. I will connect you with him. Yeah, definitely.

B
Cause that's the kind of stuff that I wanna do. I believe that we gotta give people a second chance, a third chance. I mean, I don't believe that we should be playing baseball with our lives, with other people. I mean, right? Three strikes are out.

I mean, if it was your brother, right? It was your brother. Would he only get three strikes? Of course. Right, exactly.

If your brother was on drugs, would you, say, throw him in jail for the rest of his life if it was your kid? And everybody should be your brother. All these people are just us. It's just us living different lives. It's just us with different circumstances and different things went wrong and different, you know, different people around you giving you bad advice, different bad influences, different everything.

A
And for people, this whole, one of the things that drives me crazy is the pull yourself up by your bootstrap shit. You know, like, shut the fuck up. People don't even have boots. Like, what are you talking about? That's so crazy, like, you're supposed to do it yourself.

People can't read. They don't know where to go. They don't have no positive influences, and we don't spend any money on that. I've always said, if you want to make America great again, you really want to make America great. Have less losers.

How do you have less losers? Give more people a chance. You're never going to have equal outcomes. Because some people work harder, some people are smarter, some people are luckier. There's a lot of factors, but what you can have is change the amount of opportunity that people have.

Because some people have zero opportunity. They have nothing. And if you give more people opportunity and more people help, you have more winners. You'll have more people successfully living in society, contributing, and everything gets better. Everybody rises up when people see other people win.

B
They can duplicate that. Yes, yes. They rising. They can duplicate a win. Because, I mean, you know, I keep going back to me, you know, having the opportunity to do this t shirt.

I had no clue to do a t shirt. I wasn't thinking about doing no t shirt. That was not in my plan to do no t shirt, you know. So sometimes they just need that little boost. Yeah, the little vision, you know, from somebody else that's actually out here.

Cause, you know, when I came, when I came home, I had no idea what the world was in. Everybody had cell phones, you know? Right, right. I mean, they on computers. And I'm like.

I'm like a fish out of water. I don't understand this. You know, I didn't even know my way around south central for a while. It took me a while just to, you know, to get back knowing the streets and the avenues. Cause so much stuff changed in 20 years.

So we give people all this time in prison and like you say, someone was on drugs or whatever, and we gotta set up a system where they can readjust, you know, most people go back to prison within the first three or four months. Yeah. They don't know what to do. No, they don't know. I know people that have went back to jail on purpose because the outside world was too confusing and scary for them, and they'd rather have the structure of being inside.

A
They're like, at least I get food. At least I know where I'm sleeping. They make it real easy for you in jail. They wash your clothes, turn the lights on for you. Shower comes on.

B
They give you soap, toothpaste. Might be cheap. Might be some cheap shit. What is it like finding out that you were a part of this enormous thing that was going on overseas? Shocking.

I mean, amazing. First you have to come to. You know, for me, I had to come to realization that I was really a part of that. Let's tell people the scale. Let's talk about the money, the numbers that you were moving.

A
Cause it was crazy. At my height, from 84 to 86, I was doing at least a million dollars every day. And then I had days I do as much as 3 million, say, for instance, like, the first of the month, which was my busiest days. The first was, like, crazy busy. I would do $3 million that day.

Jesus. The second, I might do two and a half million. The third, I might do a million half. And then after that be a million dollars every day. And then the 15, it would spike back up, maybe 3 million, maybe two and a half million.

B
And then it would start decreasing again. And what did you do with the money? Buy houses, businesses. You know, when I started selling drugs, I started selling drugs because I wanted to create businesses for me and my friends. You know, we couldn't get jobs.

Nobody would hire us. So what I figured, okay, start your own business. Why not open up your own business? So drugs, I couldn't go to the bank and borrow money. You know, South Central was redlined at that time.

You know, they wasn't loaning money on houses or nothing. In south Central at that time, we was totally redlined. Not like it is right now. You know, South Central is one of the hottest properties in the country, where if you got a house there, you can borrow money on it. They buying them.

But at that time, it was redlined, so I didn't have any way to get money. And drugs look like a viable source of raising money. So it was totally baffling to me to find out. Well, I never thought. I didn't know what a million dollars was when I first started.

You know, like, when I started selling drugs, probably the most money I'd ever saw was probably like $200, $300 at one time. How quick did it come? It took a little while, a few months. But that's crazy, though, you know? You know.

See, when I started selling drugs, I was a tennis player, so I was very disciplined, you know, ran. I did my runs. I would. My backhand is off. I'm gonna hit 3400 backhands over and over and over and over again.

I'm not gonna stop until I do my number. And I took that same mentality into the drug business, you know, I'm not gonna stop selling my drugs to take my girlfriend to the movies. You know, I'm not going to the club. I'm not drinking, I'm not smoking. You know, I'm gonna stay up under this tree and wait till the money comes.

A
It's funny because that discipline would have served you well in anything that you had an opportunity to do. I just didn't know that. Yeah, well, nobody ever. Nobody ever sit me down and told me I didn't have a coach. I didn't have a.

B
My mentors sold drugs, robbed people, stole cars. You know, those were my mentors. Those were the guys, you know, my mom and my dad broke up when I was four months old, so I didn't really know my dad. Met him a few times. So the male figures that I saw was these street guys, you know, crips, you know, bloods.

And when I stopped playing tennis, I was 18 years old, and I was old enough to know, like, oh, I ain't shooting nobody cause he wear red. I ain't shootin nobody cause he wear no blue. You know, I ain't with that. I'm not sticking a gun in nobody face to rob him, you know, I'm not doing it. So I had to find what I felt was a valuable way of making a living.

And when I saw cocaine shoot, they come over and they dancing. We going to the club. I need a 50.

Me and my girl, we turn it up tonight. So I was like, damn, they gonna get you $50 and you make them feel like that. I want a part of that. I want to be with that. I want to be the one to make them happy like that, dear.

And I'm going to get paid to make them feel like that, dear. I'm all in. And I dove in, you know, and I was in love, you know, I was in love with the business, and it wasn't. It was the first very successful thing that you'd been a part of. Yeah, I mean, I was a little successful at tennis.

You know, I made all conference on city, and. But that didn't put no money in my pocket. Right, right. All the trophies was good, and, you know, the pat's on the back, but, you know, now I'm putting money in my pocket. You know, I can go by my mom house and say, hey, go pay your light bill.

A
Yeah. You know, put gas in your car. You know, my little brothers and sisters didn't have to go to school with hoes in their tennis shoes no more. You know what's really crazy, Rick? Here we are in 2024.

You know, this is 40 years later, right? Mm hmm. 40 years. 40 years later. And nothing's changed in terms of drug dealing.

Nothing's changed in terms of drugs being legalized. They're still giving money to criminals, and particularly criminals in Mexico. I mean, that's literally what funds the cartels. And the fact that there's a demand in America and the supply is all brought over, or for the most part, a lot of it is brought over by the mexican cartels. We're just empowering them.

We're just giving them money. And, you know, I thought about that a lot about what you're saying, and because in order to get rid of drugs the way they're trying to do it, they would have to get rid of all three elements. Right. You know, you'd have to get rid of the manufacturers, you had to get rid of the distributors, and you had to get rid of the users. Yeah.

B
Because if you get rid of one, the other two gonna create that one again. And I would like to know, I mean, I don't necessarily think you should do cocaine. I've never done it. I got lucky. Excuse me.

A
When I was in high school, my friend's cousin got hooked on coke, and I watched his life fall apart, and I was like, oh, I don't want nothing to do with that. I was always terrified that I was gonna do something that was gonna turn me into a loser. So, you know, I grew up poor, and we moved around a lot, and I always felt out of place. I never felt like I had anything going on in my life until I started doing martial arts when I was a kid, when I was, like, 15. That's when I really got into it.

And then from then on, I said, this is the key to life. The key to life is discipline and focus. And I don't want nothing that's going to take away my focus. Nothing's going to take away my drive. And I saw my friend's cousin I was like, God damn, he was a good dude, and now he's like a vampire.

And I was, like, hiding in his attic apartment. And they're all just, like, doing coke all the time and selling coke. It was horrible. So I never fucked with coke. But I know a lot of successful people that every now and then they do a little coke, you know?

And I think it's like everything else. I think it's. I mean, there's a lot of things. Alcohol is addictive. I like a little alcohol every now and then.

I don't think it's that bad. I don't think weeds bad. I don't think any of these things are bad. I think what's bad is bad behavior and bad thinking and not understanding the consequences of what you're doing and the consequences of what we're doing by making drugs illegal is so crazy. Because all we're doing, we're not reducing the demand, we're not reducing the supply.

We're just empowering criminal elements in another country that now are immensely powerful. And it makes people want to get. Involved because of the money, incredible amounts of money. And if you're living in Mexico, shit, you think south Central is poor, you know, try being born in these places where you live in these houses with no windows and dirt floors and you see some dude driving by in a fucking beautiful car, you know, with a gold plated gun. And that's.

That's the fucking. That's El Jefe and that's the dude. That's who you look up to. That's who you want to be. And we're empowering that.

We're empowering all that in this country by our stupid fucking laws. I agree. I totally agree what you're saying. And I thought about that, that what would happen if coke lost its value, totally. You know, if it had no value.

B
I mean, if it was worth what it's really worth, you know, it grows. It's a plant, so it grows. Wow. So it doesn't take anybody to grow it. So you talking about it might be worth pennies, but it's the value that we create that attracts people to coke.

A
And it's also making it illegal. So it's difficult. Yeah. Making it illegal creates a value because if it wasn't illegal, people would just let it sit there or they would traffic it, and then it wouldn't be worth, you know, it wouldn't be worth hauling because everybody would have it. And the way I see it, that if it loses its value, most people that I saw get started with coke, start off selling, and they get curious, well, what does it do for you?

B
And they try it and they don't. Are not capable of not doing it anymore. I did it for about two weeks. You know, when I got up to like an ounce, my cousins talked me in, hey, go ahead and try it. Go ahead and try it.

Because I never tried it before. I never smoked marijuana or nothing at that time. And they talked me into trying it. And when I looked up, I had like $300. I had about $9,000 worth of coke.

And when we finished, I had $300. So what I realized is that they had tricked me into getting started so that they could get high because they didn't have any money.

So I bowed that day. When I finally cleared my head up, I said, you know what? I'm never doing it again. And I never done coke again. Yeah, it's not a good drug, but there's a lot of things that aren't good drugs.

A
Do you know who doctor Carl Hart is? No, I never heard of him. He's a professor at Columbia and he was a clinical researcher, and he was a very straight laced guy. Never did any drugs. No, nothing.

And when he started doing clinical research on different drugs and different things, he realized that all the things that we're being told about drugs are incorrect. A lot of it is overinflated, a lot of it is exaggerated. And, you know, he talks openly about responsible drug use. I mean, this guy's a professor, legitimate academic, an intellectual, and he talks openly about his own personal drug use. Yeah.

About how, you know, that these things can be used responsibly, but that that thought is never out there, that nobody says that. Nobody. Everybody tells you if you do drugs, you're going to be an addict. You do drugs, you're going to be a loser. Well, you know, these people, so many people are making money off of the illegal drug market.

B
I mean, if you just imagine how much money has been spent on incarceration, on probation, just prisons themselves, privatized prison. So these people don't want, they don't want drugs to not be valuable to the system. They want it to stay the way it is so they can keep making their money. So they do commercials and they market just like everybody else, market their business to stay in business. So those are the things that we're dealing with, and we have to get people that are more sensible.

When I got home and found out that marijuana was legal, it was like, wow, finally we waking up. You know, that was just 2016, though. In California, where it was made legal. Well, when I got medically. Medically.

It was legal when I got home, right? Yeah, it was medically legal in the nineties. Yeah, I got a card. I get headaches. Hey, you were smoking when I was on the show.

You don't remember? Yeah. And that leads me to, uh. Oh, you're in the business. I'm in the business.

A
Well, you know what's interesting is there's, there's. I bought you some gifts. Oh, what do you got here? This is my new strings. All right.

B
You know, I got a dispensary. You do? I got a dispensary where I'm a legal marijuana dealer. The state. That's incredible.

I told you, we've been gone a long time, man. Wow. That's great to hear, though, man. Look, I'm a big fan of that. And in Texas, it's illegal.

A
But you can get this stuff called Delta nine THC. That's legal. And apparently it's legal federally. So you can just get that. Yeah, it's very str.

The whole thing is very strange. It's like, there's worse things in this world than marijuana. Oh, my God. Marijuana makes people calmer, makes people funnier. Make you go to sleep.

B
I can sleep. Sleep. I get some sleep. It makes people more sensitive to other people. It really makes you more compassionate.

A
It does a lot of things for you. Oh, man. When I went to my first. Cause it all goes back to. I go to my first when I get off parole.

B
It's just crazy, right? They having a high time event in LA the day I get off parole. High times, high time event the day I get off parole. So my boy from Cincinnati, he flying out to LA. So he flies out to LA.

He comes by the house. He's like, man, you all parole. Let's go celebrate. And I was like, cool, where we going? He's like, man, they having a high time event coming.

I was like, oh, no, I don't want to get with that drug stuff, man.

Cause, you know, I'm still. Even though. Even though I've been through all I've been through, I'm still under this impression that they've been instilling in us. Oh, well, marijuana is a gateway drug, right. You know, so I'm still tripping off of that.

So I was like, oh, man, I don't want to go out there. You know, I started selling marijuana or get involved with the marijuana. Next thing you know, I'll be back doing coke. Cause I understood that I'm an addict. I was an addict to selling cocaine.

I mean, I love, if I had a problem, my old lady start arguing, I just go sell some coke.

A
Well, it's a success, right? So that made me feel better. Yeah, you're selling a lot. You're making a lot of money. And I felt better.

Why wouldn't you be addicted to that? I forget about your friend in the hospital sick from selling cocaine. So now I forgot about him being sick. So coke had become like a crutch to me, where anything that went wrong for me, coke made it better. I mean, you know, like the commercial, you know, everything goes better with coke.

Which used to be made with coke, which is crazy. So it had become like a crutch to me. And when I was going to the high time event, I was scared of that happening. And he was like, man, I bet you sell a lot of books and t shirts. I said, oh, let's go.

I bet you did. Man. I found myself out there, man. Those people treated me so good. I was like, what the fuck?

B
I want to be in this community. And after that day, you know, I've been chasing the marijuana business. And in 2016, when the federal. When they changed the law, I went there, and first, they didn't want convicted felons to work in the industry. I was like, what the fuck?

How you guys gonna say that? And we the ones made it where the industry is legal now, had the people not go to jail for selling marijuana, you never would have thought about legalizing it, right? And they had me to argue to city council that issue. That's crazy. So I got to argue the issue, and they broke down.

And now everybody around the country adopted that philosophy, and they put convicted felons in the front of the line. That's incredible. You know, the federal government is reducing it to a schedule three now. Yeah, they should just totally, 100%, but at least it's a schedule three, which is what is schedule. What's also listed in schedule three.

A
Cocaine might be actually. Medically. It's medically. Do you know that Coca Cola is one of the largest importers of coca leaves? The coca leaves still flavor Coca Cola.

B
I didn't know that. And that there's a plant that supplies coca cola. There's a plant that takes the cocaine out of the coca leaves, creates this flavonoids, these flavors that they. That's why coke tastes better than Pepsi. Sorry, Pepsi.

A
If you're a coke fan, it's like the flavor that coke has is flavored partially, at least, by cocaine. Coke is scheduled to. Interesting. Three would be like it says, ketamine, testosterone, anabolic steroids. Codeine.

Oh, mild. Yeah. Well, codeine. Ain't that mild? That's interesting.

Tylenol with codeine. Probably less than 90 milligrams. Okay, so then. Then that's where marijuana is gonna be, which is still ridiculous. What schedules Ambien.

That shit's fucking scary. What schedule is Adderall? What's Adderall? Well, it just said it right there, Jim. Yeah.

If you click on what schedules error. Right. Right above what scheduled drug is Adderall. Yeah, schedule two. That stuff is fucking crazy.

I know a lot of people hooked on that schedule for less. That's funny. Xanax. Xanax is four. I know a lot of people been fucked up by Xanax.

Valium. I know a lot of people that have been fucked up by Valium. Fucked up by Valium. And then that stuff is less illegal, man, than marijuana. It's crazy.

We're so silly. I mean, it's a little baby steps towards legalization. You know, that's one thing that California has above Texas for sure, is the legalization of marijuana. It should be legalized. They taxed the shit out of us in California.

I wish they did. And I wish they did something good with it. I wish they took those taxes and cleaned up Oakland. I wish they did. They give it to the police department.

They don't even do that, man. They're defunding the police department in California by $150 million with a new budget proposal. $150 million. All the fucking problems they have and they're defunding they what they should do. If you want to tack.

Look, if you want to tax it like you're making plenty of money, I'm sure a lot of people want to buy weed. Take that money and fix the fucking problems. Use that money. Use that money to fix the problems. Stop with all the bureaucracy.

Stop with all these fucking useless people that are getting paid for these pro, like, the homeless programs in Los Angeles. It's just a scam. It's just a bunch of people making money, some of them upwards of $250,000 a year, to fix the homeless problem and they're not doing jack shit. Yeah, I could fix the homeless problem in a couple months. You think so?

B
Absolutely. Just go out and build some nice houses and let them stay there and tell them they don't have to fill out the application. You know, most of the people that's homeless, they can't. They can't. The applications, you know, when you run their credit.

Their credit is fucked, right. You know, they didn't pay a light bill or phone bill and taxes. Yeah, taxes, whatever. You know, so their credit is fucked up. And I mean, the problem can be solved, you know, but it got to be somebody who say, you know what?

We're going to throw a few, maybe 50 million, 100 million into building some low income houses that we also going to have some treatments, you know, where people get treated. Will they get job training? It's just so many things. I mean, I don't know. Even when I look at, you know, some are supposed to be millionaires, billionaires, you know, the way they.

I don't know. I would look at this problem and I would solve it totally different, because even though I like making money, I'm not. I'm not like typical people. They get the money and they want to harness it, and they just want it for themselves so that they can look down on everybody else. I don't think money is supposed to be used like that.

I think money is supposed to be put back into the community where the community can rejuvenate and the money circulates. Into the community and that makes everything better for everybody. Absolutely. Yeah. You don't want to be the only one who's doing well.

A
No, that's not a good place to be in life. Well, you know, a lot of people were like that. You know, they're fools. Just a foolish way of thinking. We look at the way, you know, the situation with puff daddy.

B
You know, he had money, so he treated everybody else like shit. Like, you know, lick, lick a tampon. You know, like, what the fuck? What kind of crazy motherfucker would want somebody to lick a tampon? Yeah.

You know, I mean, that's how you get your kicks. You know, I get. I would get my kick by seeing somebody do good. Like, look at that motherfucker. He doing good.

A
That's my kick. That's my motherfucker, boy. Yeah. You know, that's a good kick. I like that kick.

B
Yeah. Me. Some people get a kick off of degrading people. They get a kick off of being the most powerful person. Yeah.

A
You know, and that's a. That's an evil inclination that is built into humanity for some reason. There's always been that impulse for some people to do that. It's very unfortunate, I think. Power.

B
You can hide your power. You don't even have to show it. You can be powerful and nobody even know you're powerful because you don't have to use it.

That's when you're really powerful, when you don't have to use it, you're like, I'm so powerful. Don't nobody make me use it. Yeah, and you're using your power for good, but, yeah, it's, I mean, there's a lot of people with some good ideas in this world, and I think we're, you know, there's a lot of people that are very down on the future. I don't think that helps anybody. I think there's a real possibility that we come out of this better.

A
It's just we have to think right and act right. And then sometimes you gotta go to the bottom. You know? They say, one of the books I read, it said that the end of the storm starts at the worst. You know, when you get to the worst, if you can bear the worst.

That'S the beginning of the end. That's the beginning of the end. So, you know, we gotta go through the worst, you know, everybody buckle up. And, you know, I think that has to happen, too. I really do.

I think people have to see things fall apart before they realize, like, oh, we had it good, and we didn't even realize we had it good. Yeah, and now we're fucked. And now we have to turn this shit around. You know, we've been going the wrong way. We've been going the wrong way for sure, but we've been led the wrong way.

And we've been led the wrong way by people like what we were just talking about before that use their power to subjugate others to keep everybody else down. And then we got all these old motherfuckers who've been running things for too long, you know, like, why do you stay in the Senate and Congress for 30 years, you know? Like, did you ever look at the founding fathers, how young they were? I haven't. It's crazy.

One of them was 18, one of them was 21. These are the people that started the Declaration of Independence. They signed it. These are the people that were the founding fathers of this experiment in self government that you and I both live in. They were young as fuck, man.

Now you look at the people that are in Congress now. You look at people like, you know, like the president, he can't even form a sentence. He doesn't know the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan. When he's talking to foreign leaders, he's out of it. He's too old.

Yeah, too old. And then, you know, Mitch McConnell, he just locks up when he's talking to people. It's like he's too old. He shouldn't be doing that. He's not.

Not trying to make the world a better place. He's just trying to not let go of his position of power. And that's a lot of them. And they get there through years and years and years of being deeply embedded into the system, and they know how to work it, and next thing you know, they're the top dog. I think they all should go spend a couple days in jail, you know, wouldn't be bad.

B
Just go sit there for a couple weeks, you know, and then see what it's like. Go in the ghetto, go in the homeless camp. Let them live in a homeless camp for a week, you know, eat the food that they eatin'and. Then you really. You really become an American.

I think if you're not experiencing real life, then you don't know what real life is, right. You know, if you don't see it, you don't touch it. You know? Some of these people never go out to the communities, right? They go straight from universities right into jobs in the system.

A
They work their way up the ladder. Yeah. And then they have disdain for the common people, which it could have been them, you know, different. Roll the dice. Different circumstances, different life, different parents.

Different parents, different place you live. Could have been your brother, different everything. Could have been them. Could have been them. And people don't want to think that.

They want to. They genuinely want to believe they're special, which I think is a trap. Well, we all special. Yeah, but I mean special, different than everybody else. Yeah.

B
When you start to look down on everybody else, that's bad. Yeah. You know, when you feel privileged for no reason, you know? Right. If you go out and you do something special, you know, then maybe you special, you know?

But if you're not doing anything that anybody else can't do, then you know better than nobody else. Well, there's definitely special people, but special people are just people. And they're just people that have put an extraordinary amount of effort and time, and maybe they have just a God given talent and they've achieved incredible things. And those people also, what they do is they elevate everyone around them because they make you realize, like, wow, my watermark was here. Now it's here.

Those are the people that I consider special. Yes. That's. You can make other people. Right.

If you can lift up other people. Yes. Then you're special. Yeah. I mean, there's so many people, just by virtue of their success and the example that they set, they change the course of so many people's lives.

A
Cause they look to those people for inspiration, and it gives them the energy to go out and do things. Yes. It gives them the energy, the thoughts, just the idea. Like, that guy did it, I can do it. That's what I want to do.

I want to succeed. And it could be a great thing or it could be what happened to you. It's like the wrong inspiration. Absolutely. You say that's what these guys are succeeding.

We don't have shit. They have money. I can do that. And then you do that. But, you know, that could be, in your case, it turned out to not be good, but in other people's cases, in different things with different examples of people that are succeeding.

Like, you could have done what you did in the drug game if you had better opportunities in fucking anything. I agree. And it's genuinely. It's the discipline of an athlete, which is an extraordinary discipline. The discipline to force yourself to do things you don't want to do.

You develop that ability and the ability to, like, really hone in and focus and have drive and a work ethic that translates to everything. Everything. You just got to find a different thing to do. Yeah, yeah. And now with the Internet, it makes it better, but we got to get people to where they understand that they should try to do it right.

B
You know, because once you get beat down, once you get beat down, you feel like, why should I try? I'm gonna get beat down again. Right. You know, I don't have the support, you know, I don't have the crutch to hold me in position until I can build my strength up to be on my own. And I think that we as a society have to give this to our children because if we don't, our children are going to be in trouble.

A
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Our entire society and our society, we're all supposed to be one team. This is. This especially.

Yeah. Yes. I mean, if we have countries at all, if there is a. I mean, if you believe in America, you believe in any country that's supposed to be your team. So everybody is supposed to be on that team together and everybody supposed to.

B
Be trying to make the team win. Yes. The whole team. And that can be done. And no man left behind.

A
No man left behind. Yeah. And if something is wrong, you know, we got to look out for the ones that are slow. That's the sign of bad leadership in our country, that that's not being addressed, that's bad leadership, that all they're doing is serving the interests of all the wealthy people that got them into power in the first place. And the wealthy people, you know, once you get wealthy, you should want to be a philanthropist.

B
I mean, in my opinion, one of the greatest things that a person could do is help somebody else, you know? I mean, that is so, to me, that's like, so fulfilling, you know? You know, people tell me, you know, when I do stuff for people, they'd be like, oh, man, thank you, thank you. And I'll be like, thank you. I should be thanking you.

Cause you just made my day. You know, I got off by doing that.

A
Yeah, that's what people don't realize. Like, doing something nice for people is selfish. Yeah. Cause it makes you feel good. Like they might ask me for a picture in the airport and I'll be like, sure, you want to take a picture with me, right?

You make them feel good, but you feel good. And then you give them some good advice and it's like, wow, what a feeling it is, you know, so, I don't know, it's just, you know, I just come up different, you know, and I'm from the streets, you know, I'm from where people kill you for colors, you know. Some of my first heroes was Tookie Williams. You know, I used to look up to tookie Williams. I wanted to be like Tookie.

B
I wanted to be a crip, you know. So to now see the world to where I should be trying to save lives, you know, is a total different mentality than when I was twelve years old, eleven years old, you know, and, yeah, and I'm saying, guys fight over a color. And that was because I was ignorant. I didn't know any better, you know? But once I was educated to the facts that, hey, we supposed to be helping save lives, not destroying a life.

A
What was it like once you got into jail and learned how to read and then started reading and recognizing that the world was just a much different place than you were? Mind blowing. Mind blowing. I hate that nobody ever sit me down, explained to me how. How exciting book reading was.

B
And, you know, the books I started to read was about making money. I gotta tell you that, too. There was about either making money or how the mind works, you know, how to. How to think, you know, how to think successfully, how to have faith in yourself, how to believe in you, you know, because when, when you don't believe in yourself, it's hard to believe in anything, right? You know, if you believe you're a loser, then you think everybody else is losers as well, right?

So having these experiences in these books, you know, think and grow rich by Napoleon Hill, like, just blew my mind, you know, like, fuck, people actually think like this here, you know, like, you can think and grow rich. You can use your mind to create, and you only really need one idea that could make you a fortune, you know, that you shouldn't be allowing other people to feed your mind, their ideas. You know, what they think you should be, you know, because when I was coming up, other people affected the way I thought, you know, like, man, you play tennis. That's a girl sport, you know, you reading a book. Why you reading a book?

You need a gun, you know, so these things start to shape your mind. And, you know, when I found out from James Allen that I am the gardener of my mind and I have to keep my mind weed free, you know, I have to pluck the weeds out as soon as a negative thought pop in. Because, you know, even since I've been home, you know, they didn't offer me coke. I had a few guys come up. Oh, I was just playing, you know, nudge you on the shoulder.

I was just playing. Just see where you was at with it. So as soon as those things happen, you got to get rid of them, you know? Because when Blandon approached me about selling drugs again, I wasn't planning on selling drugs no more. But when he kept offering it, and when I listened to the tape in court, man, you know, I'm in court, we going to trial, and they plan the tapes of our recorded phone calls, and he says, rick, I got 700 kilos.

The first thing popped out of my mind, my mouth. And I don't even know. I said this, how much? First thing. And I done told myself, I have promised myself, Joe.

I promised myself and my kids I'm never selling coke again. But when he asked me that question on that tape, which is probably what convicted me. Wow. I said, how much? Wow.

Unconsciously, I think I had fallen asleep behind the wheel. So you had already decided to get out. I was out. I hadn't sold drugs in five and a half, six years. Really?

Yeah. And the conversations on the phone are what got you convicted? Yeah. Was he wearing a wire? He was wearing a wire.

He was recording a conversation. He was. He'd already become a government informant. Oh, my God. And I asked him how much?

A
Oh, my God. They played that over and over in the courtroom. How much? How much? I just kept hearing myself say, how much?

Oh, my God. And I just put my head down because I knew that that was a crucial mistake.

Wow. Even though I didn't bite that time. I didn't bite. But you did say how much. I did say how much.

That's all it took. That's all it took. So that showed an interest. Oh, my God. See, if I would have said, oh, I don't fuck with drugs no more, but, you know, I'm talking to my partner.

B
I'm talking to the homie. We chopping it up, right? Old times, just good times. Out of curiosity, how much good times. You know, sound like good times.

A
I don't sell drugs anymore, but out of curiosity, what kind of figures are. We talking about here? Yeah, it's exciting too, right? Yeah. That's also a part of the problem regular life gets.

B
Dane, selling drugs is exciting, man. I bet girls. Oh, girls. Girls like drug dealers. I bet dealers have a lot of money.

Nice cars. Yeah. Pay for nice hotels. Yeah. Girls like nice things.

A
Buy you nice gifts, nice shoes, nice bag, nice this, nice clothes. So it's easy, you know, when I go out and I talk to these young guys, I don't criticize them because I understand what they're going through. And I understand that if we don't replace the drug with something else, don't even ask them to quit. Right? Why?

B
Why would you ask somebody not to feed their kids, you know, not to be able to buy their girlfriends or shoes she wants? And, you know, we have to come up with things because, you know, most of the manufacturing jobs overseas, right. You know, we don't make anything in America anymore. Very little. Very little.

A
Yeah. How crazy is that? Who the fuck didn't see that coming? That was going to ruin everything, huh? Just have people in other countries that are extremely poor work for almost nothing.

It's weird, man. We're a goofy, goofy culture, and we have so much information. It's not like the solution's impossible to solve. Oh, no, we can fix it. Yeah, we can fix it, but we got to start.

B
Yeah, right where we at, you know, we gotta. We gotta put our hands down, our feet down, and say, you know what? We're gonna make a stands. And, you know, that's what I believe. You start with what you got, where you at?

You know, so many people want things to be perfect. No, it ain't gonna be perfect. You know, you might have to go through a little something. You might have to miss a couple meals, you know, but this is what it's gonna take. You know, it's just hard.

A
If someone's already making a lot of money doing something illegal. It's very hard to tell them. You're gonna make way less money, and you're gonna work way harder, and you're not gonna enjoy it, but it's gonna be legal. That's a very hard sell. Very hard sell.

B
It is. It is. But we gotta put people first. We got. We gotta learn.

I mean, we gotta stop being stupid. Yeah. And I believe when we don't put people first, we're being stupid. Because without people, there's no drugs, there's no business, there's no nothing. We are people.

We are. It's us. Just one team. Team human. That's win, baby.

A
Yeah. The crazy thing is there's enough resources for everybody. There's enough for everybody. There really is. It's just our system is just.

Is just manipulated and all fucked up and poorly organized and badly planned. I agree. Yeah, I agree. You know, I'm deep, deep in the marijuana industry now, and I'm watching these guys, and these guys are making millions of dollars, but I'm watching them cut their own throat. I'm sitting here, and I'm literally watching them, like, take razor blades to their necks.

How so? Well, some of it. I can't talk on the air about it because it ain't proper. Right. Got it.

Got it. But I would just tell you that I'm being privileged to see this business destroy itself. I'm watching them just destroy their business. No organization, no camaraderie. You know?

B
I'm gonna beat this guy out. I'm gonna beat that guy out. I'm gonna put him out of business, and they really gonna put themselves out of business at the same time. It's like I saw a thing in National Geographic when I was in jail, and it was an alligator in a. One of those big water moccasins was fighting, and the water moccasin wind up swallowing the alligator.

A
Really? Yeah, but in the process, he swallowed the alligator. So when the alligator go inside, he's still alive. He takes his claws and go like this here. Probably part of his last.

It was probably a python. Might have been a python. Yeah. That's in the everglades. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you know the largest population of pythons in the world is in the everglades? I didn't know. They're not even from the everglades. I didn't know that.

Just assholes releasing them. And then maybe a research center that got hit with a hurricane. There's a lot of speculation about how the population got so large, but there's over half a million pythons. Wow. But, yeah, they swallow the alligator and the alligator cuts its way out of their body and then they both die.

B
They both die. There's a photo of one of a twelve foot alligator bursting out of the body of a python. Look at this. So this python swallowed this alligator and then the alligator's tail is poking out of it as it clawed its way out. That's its tail.

Yeah. So they're both dead? They both died, yeah. And especially when you're talking about the weed business, how much weed can you sell? You really want to put everybody out of business?

A
Are you fucking retarded? Why don't you just like make as much money as you can and then encourage all these other people to make as much money as they can and hang out together? Go have a barbecue together. Go fucking let everybody do good. Everybody set limits, right?

B
Everybody set limits, okay. We're gonna make this amount of money. Yeah. The competition is within yourself. The competition is to do better.

A
And if you see other people doing better than you say, what are they doing different than me? You should be inspired instead of trying to like squash their business. They can't think it's stupid. It's a stupid, these people can't think. They like, they like, I mean, they like gang bangers almost.

To me it's very similar. There's the same patterns. Those patterns exist in politics, in business, in everything. Drug dealing, gang banging, everything used to exist like that in comedy. Used to be the comedians were all out for themselves.

You know, just take someone to kind of explain to everybody, like, this is stupid. There's not that many of us, we're all in this together. There's no, it doesn't benefit you at all. So let's make society better. Yes, let's make everything better.

B
Let's make, let's make everything better. That's what it's supposed to be about. That's what it should be about when it's all said and done. You know, I read a book and the guy says, when you're at the end, how do you want to be remembered? And me, I want people to say, maybe they might say I sold drugs.

I don't care about that part. Yeah, I only sold drugs eight years. But at the end I wanted to say he made the world a better place cause he lived, you know, when I go out like that there, I'll be a happy man. Well, sometimes you have to do the wrong thing in order to be an example of someone who can do the wrong thing and course correct, then become a better person. Like if you're just a good person from the beginning.

A
That's kind of boring. Like a guy who fucks up a few times and then figures it out, and then that can inspire people who have already fucked up their life, because people want to think that once they fucked up their life. Oh, my God, I'm a fuck up. But that's not really the case. You just.

This life is like, treat it like a game. Like, if you lose one hand of cards, you're not a card loser for the rest of your life. You got to figure out, what did I do wrong? Well, I hit at 17. I should have just stuck, and, you know, I would have been all right.

Yeah, you got to learn. And the only way to learn is to fuck up. And this idea that when someone fucks up, they are a fuck up. No, they're a human being. They're a human being with either bad information or bad counseling or bad examples.

And they went down the wrong way. Get off the carpet. Yeah, they knock you down. Get up. Yep, get up.

B
Cause they say. They say, you still the champions as long as you get up. Well, a lot of people will disagree with that. I mean, it's just. It's unfortunate, this mentality that people have.

A
It's a famine mentality. And there's enough for everybody. There really is. And it's also what you were saying that you like. It's selfish to be generous.

It's selfish to be nice. It's selfish to help people. Cause it makes you feel better. It really does. It's really beneficial to you.

And you feel good about yourself. You're like, at the end of the night, when you lay your head down, you're like, I'm not a piece of shit. I'm a good guy. I'm helping people. People like me, and I like them.

And everybody, we all benefit, and everybody grows, and that's nice. That's a good way to live your life, and that's a good example to set, and that can be done. This idea that there's, you know, that's just you against the world, that's. That's crazy. Yeah, that's getting.

That's gonna fuck you over. And I think that's a big problem that we have. And then, you know, hopefully we can start working on that. Have you met this rapper that has been running around with your name? He dodges me.

B
He dodges me. You never seen him? No. I call him bad ex slip route. You see what happened other night?

He walked Agent Broner into the ring. Oh, and Agent Broner got knocked out, or he didn't get knocked out. He got beat up the worst, the worst beating he ever got before in his life. Adrian Broner is a cautionary tale because he was an incredibly talented young man, very, very talented when he was young, but he fucked off too much, and he didn't stay the path. He didn't stay disciplined, and, you know, he had some losses, and Maidana hurt him.

A
That was, like, the first one. There's a few different fights. He just, you know, and now what is he, 35, 36, broke? And if you're normal men, healthy men, when they hit 36, their body starts to decline. Absolutely.

And he's not that healthy. I mean, he was fat just a little while ago. Gervonta Davis took him in, and he started training with Gervonta, and he documented it. So he showed photos of, like, he had this big belly. He looked fat and out of shape, and then leaned himself down to where he had a six pack again.

But you're just getting back in shape. These motherfuckers that you're fighting have been in shape for a decade. They stay in shape for a decade. Their reflexes and timing and technique is finally honed to a razor's edge. You can't just jump back in and compete with some dude who's been on the game for ten fucking straight years and is focusing on the path.

It takes a long time to get back to where you were, forget about to where they are. You might look the part. You may be able to hit pads, and everybody's like, always back. The difference between success and failure in the boxing game is fractions of a second, fractions of a second. The ability to maintain a pace for as many rounds as the fight is the understanding of how to pace yourself, the ability to handle the pressure.

The pressure of knowing that you fucked up for so long, and this is a big opportunity. The nerves, the anxiety, the sleepless nights before the fight, all that's going to weigh on you. All those different things. When you look at the elite of the elite boxers, to a man, to every one of them, they're disciplined, and they stay focused and like, okay, you know who's the same age as Adrian Broner? Terrence Crawford.

Best boxer in the world. I agree. Best boxer. I agree. He.

I am so excited to see this fight with Canelo Alvarez. Cause I think the Saudi Arabians have so much money. They are throwing so much money at boxing, and the guy who's the head of boxing over there wants to make that fight happen. I think Terrence Crawford. Forget about the three weight classes.

I think he could be Canelo. I think he can, too. He's the best switch hitter in boxing since Marvin Hagler, and he's so. And his hands are like, rocks. Oh, I held his hand in Dallas, you know, I found kid Austin, the boxer.

Oh, did you? Yeah, when he was two and o. So I helped him get to where he's at now. Even though I don't get any credit for it. A lot of people fucking you over, man.

B
So I went to that fight, and Terrence was there, and I was with Anthony Peterson. You know, I manage Anthony Peterson. Anthony, 39. He wants to come back, so we're gonna see. But Anthony deals with it a little different.

Anthony stays in shape sparring. But anyway, I held Terrence's hand, and they so damn big, and they like a sack of rocks. I was like, damn, this dude hands are like rocks. So I'm taking. I'm taking Terrence in that fight, as well.

I took him in. Earl Spence fight, too. Yeah, I thought Earl Spence. Well, first of all, Earl Spence, that car accident is crazy. If you watch that car accident, nobody comes out of a car accident like that.

A
Not damaged. He had to get brain damage from that car accident. That car flipped. He got thrown out of the car. Luckily, he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, which is so crazy.

It's one of the few times where someone not wearing a seatbelt saved their life. Benefited. Yeah, crazy. But that had to fuck him up. I mean, he was undefeated before that.

Yeah, but you know what? Crawford's just so good anyway, and he's a different guy. He's a different guy, you know, no parties, no drinking. No, he's clever. He's clever.

He sets traps, you know, he's not just a power striker. I mean, not that aerospence is not a great boxer. He's a great boxer, but I think Terrence is one of the all time greats. He's just so slick. Like, you know, like, he talked about how he knew that he was going to eat a punch in order to counter, so he had to, like, put himself in range so the new arrow could hit him, so that he could crack him.

He's like, I knew I had a gamble on this. And, you know, this is, like, levels to the way that guy fight, the game he plays. Yeah. When he gets you hurt, you're fucked. Oh, yeah?

You're fucked. Oh, yeah. You don't want to be hurt in there with him. He's not going to miss on opportunities. He's on that all time greatness track, you know?

And. But again, he's like the same age as Adrian Broner. It's like Adrian Broner, when he was young, was crazy talented. He was so fast and so good. But you just.

You can't fake that game. You are either all in or you are faking it. Yeah. And if you are faking it, you're gonna run into some dude who's all in. You're gonna run into some David Benavidez character.

That's just not skipping days. No, not skipping days. Who really want it. Really wants it. It's everything.

B
But, you know, it's hard when they get the money to stay on that track when they get rich. You know, you want to enjoy I guess you want to enjoy your money. Of course, you know? Of course. But, you know, that comes at a price.

A
And some people. The only person that I know that has really been able to avoid that temptation is Floyd. Floyd Mayweather was still elite, the elite of the elite, while he had hundreds of millions of dollars just still. He would go to a club, drink water, and then run home with his jeans on, run home for miles. He'd have his drivers drive, and he would run them.

B
We picked him up in Memphis. He got off the plane, looked like he was on the plane working out. He probably was. Yeah. He had on his shorts and was sweaty, and he ran straight in, went in the shower, showered up, then put his suit on and went to the club.

So what you're saying is what I believe is to be correct. Yeah. He shows you all the watches and shows you all the cars and shows you the big house. But what you don't see is the discipline, the just straightforward eyes on the prize. Discipline and focus.

A
That's how you get to be a Floyd Mayweather. You don't get to be a Floyd Mayweather any other way. There's a lot of talented people out there. There's a lot of people that are gifted, athletically gifted. They're faster than other folks, they hit harder than other folks.

But it's the discipline and the focus that leads you to the end. That's how you become a great. There's no other way. There's no. No one becomes like a sugary Leonard or a Floyd Mayweather or a Tommy hearns.

Without discipline. They don't. It doesn't happen. You have to stay focused always. And if you don't, then worse, then you're left with a life of regret.

B
Well, that's what we were saying about the drug business. I mean, it applies to really anything. Anything. And that's why I believe that I can. Can play major roles in so many different businesses, because, you know.

And I'm at the point in my life that I know that all I got to do is sacrifice for a couple months, and you're in the game. You know, I've been in boxing now for, like, six years. You know what I mean? Really? Yeah.

I manage about six or seven fighters. Who do you manage? I got a guy, Vashon champ right now, Alvin Vermeer. I just signed a kid. I just signed my first national champs.

I got, like, four national champs. Ashland, out of North Carolina.

Damn. I can't even think everybody's name. And I shouldn't have named nobody. Cause everybody be like, why didn't you mention me? Why?

You didn't give me a shout out. But I got about four national champs that I'm signing this year, and I'm not a big fan of boxing. You're not? No, I'm not. I'm not really.

I mean, I think when you're trying to knock the most valuable thing that a human being has, which is their brain, you're trying to knock their brain out. Right. I think it's kind of. It's almost like dealing coke. Almost.

A
So why are you involved in it? Cause I hate to see these guys wind up broke at the end of. Their careers, and they're gonna do it anyway. So you're gonna try to help them? I'm gonna try to stop that.

B
And then they have so much influence over our people, man. They can say a word, and our people just follow them. That is the thing. When you see someone succeed and someone who lives a disciplined life, especially if you're, like, a fan of a boxer, it'll make you want to live like that. Yeah.

So I just felt that I could step in and really help these guys with their money, as well as help them become the mentors that they should be. And that's why I got into boxing and I started. You know, Floyd picked me up from the halfway house. He did? Yeah.

He picked me up from the halfway house. Yeah. That's crazy. And I was trying to, you know, show him what I know, but he didn't really want to use me for that, you know? Have you ever seen anybody confront Rick Ross about you?

Not. Not in person, no. Anytime I'm around, he disappears. But is there any video of anybody can, like, hey, why are you running. Running around with this dude's name when this dude's out of jail?

Now, well, you know, these guys, they kind of like, like we talked about, when you got some money, they don't care if you beating women or making them lick tampons. You know, everybody fucked with you, right? So, you know, he was on top of the world. He was a corrections officer. Yeah, but he was.

But when he got some money, they forgot about he was a correctional officer. You got gangsters, you know, doing records with him and. And, you know, people who say, oh, I hate snitches and all this, but they're doing records with a police officer who put handcuffs. You know, I got letters from guys that was in jail with him when he was a correctional officer, and they told me what a shitty guy he was, you know, that they would be shooting dice. He would take the dice and all the money, and they got extra soup.

He'd take the soups and wow. And, you know, just stuff that normal officers just don't, you know, officers. I mean, everybody in jail got extra soups. You know, you say your suits. Cause it might come a time and you ain't got them, so you stack your stuff up, but most officers don't even care, you know, ah, who cares about extra soup?

We trying to get the dope dealers and, you know, the guys with the knives, but then you got those ones and they're like, oh, well, you got an extra pair of underwear. You going to the hole. And that's how he was. That's how he was. They say that's the kind of cop he was like.

And then when I hear that he's the biggest gangster rapper on the planet. It'S like, it's just so crazy. What is it like having a dude running around out there with your name? Like, if there was a rapper out there named Joe Rogan, I'd be like, what the fuck?

I mean, it's crazy, you know? Like, how would you take my name and not have the decency to ask me? First of all, you should have asked, but then never pay homage, you know? He won't even admit that he stole the name. He tells people that he invented the name.

Like, how the fuck do you invent this name? Well, it's so crazy because the name was famous. Your name was famous. Everybody knew who you were when the case came out and when the connection to the Iran Contra affair came out, when everybody found out what was going on. Like, you were a legend.

Yeah, you throw a few million dollars, you know, toward Instagram and Facebook and, you know, the radio station, and everybody forget about that, you know, and you put a little gold chain on and you drive a Rolls Royce and a couple pretty girls. It's one thing if his name was Rick Ross, it's possible there could be another Rick Ross out there. There's other. I've met other Joe Rogans. That's real.

Me too. I met other Rick Rosses. But what the fuck, man? The guy knows who you are. Everybody knows who you are.

A
Takes your name. I mean, it's like, it doesn't even make sense that. It's like, didn't you have a case? You had like a legal case, right? I lost the case.

How the fuck did you lose? They said I should have filed a lawsuit. The judge. The judge got to make a technical decision. She had to make a decision.

B
When did the public first become known of him using my name? So what she did is she picked a little radio station outside of Miami that played his record for the first time. So that was the date that the public first became known that he was using the name. So there was a statute of limitations. And when you were supposed to address it?

Yes. How much time? Two years. What? Yeah, you get two years.

So if we went by her time frame, I should have filed my lawsuit five days before I got out of jail. Oh, my God. I was five days late. That's so crazy. But I think she would have found another reason to, right, to come up with a date.

A
Well, the record company probably would have helped, right? I mean, think about how much money they're making off of him. Oh, yeah. They would owe me. They had 15 lawyers.

B
Oh, you know how much money they say they spent on the lawsuit? How much? One and a half million dollars. Wow. You know how much they offered me?

A
How much? Zero. Zero. They never come and say, hey, man. What would you have accepted?

B
Just to like, well, you know, Joe, my mom, we was getting evicted out of my mom's house during the time of the lawsuit. So I imagine if she was losing her house for 220,000. So if somebody would have came up and said, hey, I'll save your mom's house. Cause, you know, I was worried about my mom. My mom was at that time, she was 83, 84.

And one of my biggest concerns was her being homeless. So I probably would have took 220,000 if he would have came and said, hey, I'm gonna sell your mom's house. Let me have Rick Ross change your name to Mitch or whatever. Well, you wouldn't have changed your name. That's crazy.

A
But I would've just licensed. I didn't even care about the name, right? I didn't care about the name like that. I just felt that it was so disrespectful that he didn't come and ask me or he didn't show any consideration or pay any homage to the fact that he actually took my name. But, yeah, I probably would have took 250,000 if they'd have said 300,000, I would have been tickle pink because I felt that I didn't need much money to get started.

Meanwhile, they spent one point, what, 1.51.5. Million I owe them right now. I owe them a million dollars. What? Yeah, I'm a million.

B
I got a million dollar judgment because. You have to pay their legal fees. I have to pay their legal fees. Oh, my. And then the judge was like, oh, well, I don't believe you guys actually spend 1.5 million, but maybe a million dollars.

A
Oh, my God. She gave me a million dollar judgment. Isn't that insane? For your name? Your fucking name, and you can't appeal this?

B
Well, we appealed it, but, you know, once, once you, you know, once you lose to the appeals court, you're not going to the supreme court or anything like that. So, yeah, that's how he wind up being able to continue to use the name, you know? He changed to Rose, though. Cause they thought they might lose if this judge. If this judge picks a different date.

You know, we go to trial, right? And they didn't want to go to trial. I didn't think. I think if they didn't went to trial, everybody in LA would have, like, they would have hammered him. Like, you know, you stole that name.

If you'd heard. If you'd have heard the thing that he did, you know. Cause we did his deposition, we took his depot. That was the first time I ever met him in person, you know, he wouldn't shake my hand either. Really?

No. When he walked in, all the attorneys, it was a big table. It was about twelve people in the room. And he walks in and he walks around the table, shakes everybody, including my lawyer. Shakes my lawyer's hands and everybody.

And I stood up to shake his hand because I don't have no hard feelings, you know, just give me my money, right? So he rolls his eyes at me and walks away, turned his little shoulder, like, wow. You know, like, I ain't, you know. And then he comes up with this. Oh, my goodness.

I don't know where he got the story from. He said he played football in high school and the whole team was called a big east. And some guy was trying to call him Big east and accidentally called him the big boss, and then somebody else called him Rick Ross. It went from big boss to Rick Ross. That's his story.

A
That's the dumbest. How he came up with the name Rick Ross. That's the dumbest fucking story I've ever heard in my life. If I'd have been the judge, I would have hammered him just for saying, you know, come in my courtroom, lying like that. I would've been like that.

But that's impossible. If he's rapping about drug dealing and money, it's impossible that he doesn't know who you are. Impossible. Impossible. Not possible.

B
I agree. Everybody. I knew who you were. I had heard the story. Well, you know, I don't even remember.

A
When I read about it. When Gary Webb published a story in 96 with the San Jose Mercury News, my name that year was one of the biggest names in the country. Yeah. Cause the story was insane. It went.

B
It was the first time any story had ever been published on the Internet by a major newspaper. Remember. Remember the Internet was brand new, right? So when they published that article on the Internet, no story had ever. Because remember, the CIA tried to recall that article, but, you know, once it hit the Internet, it can't be recalled.

A
You know, you tried to recall the article. You don't remember. I don't. They. The printed copies, they stopped doing.

B
They took the CIA emblems off and everything. Really? Yeah, they made them take all that stuff off. But the Internet couldn't be, you know, you couldn't take it back at the time. Once it hit the Internet, it's like, boom, it's all over the world.

You know, when you hit that button, ain't no recall, right? If you put something on that thing and you hit that button, what you said is what you said, you gonna have to live with that. So when it went viral, it was nothing they could do, and it just went crazy. So everybody picked it up. You know, CNN, Nightline, Dateline 2020.

You know, I'm doing. I'm doing, like six interviews for my jail cell every day. Every day, people coming out and talking to me. And I told you, that's when the CIA came down. The CIA came to my jail cell and interviewed me.

The CIA, the OIG, Congress, Maxine Waters. I mean, it was like, fuck, I become a celebrity in jail. Like, they start treating me different. What did the CIA say to you in jail? What did I know about cocaine being trafficked by the Contras?

Which, you know, I didn't really know about the Contras. You know, I knew Dinello. I don't know about no damn contras. And I knew you knew the guy. Who was supplying you.

Yeah, that's all I know. I don't know if he was a Contra CIA informant or. I don't know none of that shit. I never cared. You know, I'm an illiterate, you know, 28, 30 year old guy from south central who never watched the news and, you know, had heard about the Iran Contra stuff, but that shit didn't.

Didn't mean nothing to me. Had no effect on south central LA. You know what I'm saying? I don't know that my prices and my drug quality, depending on what happened over there. I'm not paying no attention to that.

I'm just worried about, man, my drugs gonna get here on time? Is it gonna be cheap? Is it gonna be good? So when all that stuff was coming about, they wanted to know how much money I was making, you know, who I bought drugs from, what years I bought drugs. You know, just a whole.

Basically, like an interview. So how do you think it worked? Do you think there's, like, a rogue element that was inside of the government? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

But. But I mean, to cut you off. No, go ahead. Because it was a rogue element to it. But the rogue element come from the top as well.

Not that they necessarily sanctioned it, but they knew about it. Hmm. And they turned a blind eye. They turned a blind eye. You know, it was a saying.

Nancy Reagan said, say no, and Ronald Reagan said, act like you don't know.

A
That's what they did. They admitted. They admitted. See, I admit it. Yes, we knew they were selling drugs, and we did nothing to stop them.

B
So. Right. There is a crime. Because if you're an agent of the government and you know somebody's committing a crime, you're supposed to stop it. Right.

But they understood that if they stop that, they lose the war. Right? Phew. It just makes you wonder how much of that shit was going on during the Vietnam War, because a lot of people think that the Vietnam War was. A lot of it was about moving heroin.

Yeah, I heard that as well. And that makes sense. It makes sense, like, if you are in a bit, especially the Vietnam War, right? Because the Vietnam War was started with a false flag. So the Gulf of Tonkin incident starts.

A
The Vietnam War. The Gulf of Tonkin incident never took place. It was a fake incident. They said we were attacked by North Korea or, excuse me, North Vietnam. We have to go in there and fight the Viet Cong never happened.

It was fake. They made it up just to get us to go to war. So if you're willing to kill, who knows how many Americans died in that war? Hundreds of thousands, probably. How many people died during the Vietnam War?

How many american soldiers? I think it's close to 100,000, maybe more.

And then how many Vietnamese got killed? Like, the whole. The overall cost of lives is catastrophic. And they did it knowing, well, you know, that sometimes they feel that 58,220 us fatal casualties, and that doesn't include how many people were wounded and fucked up for the rest of their lives. How many people died?

Totally. How many people died to all deaths? Vietnam War, what's the total deaths? That's just american deaths. And then they count asian orange.

Right, right. Casualties gets bigger because 1.4 million civilian casualties in South Vietnam because of the war, including death. Right. I understand. Including 415,000 deaths and estimated by the Defense Department, gave the figure of 1.2 million civilian casualties, 195,000.

So it's all controversial what the actual number was. 1978 estimated 1,353,000 total deaths in north and South Vietnam during that period. Fuck, man. And that. So if they're willing to do that, you don't think they're willing to make money off drugs?

I mean, if they're willing to let people die so that they can achieve their objectives. Their willingness. Well, they felt that, you know, to sacrifice a few people to stop what they felt was the greatest threat to america. Right. Was with russia being on our southern hemisphere, you know, being in nicaragua.

B
You know, they felt that that was the greatest threat at that time to our democracy. Yeah. And they felt that they would do anything to stop that. What a crazy thing to do, though, to think about the sacrifices. It's gonna.

A
What's gonna do to american citizens, including the people that, like, you, went to jail for helping them. The whole thing is crazy. They probably did it during afghanistan. We still suffer now. That's the homeless problem.

B
Most of the people that's homeless was on crack. Right, right. Or something else. Or opiates or meth. Yeah, it's going on right now.

A
Yeah. Crazy. It's just. There's so much, so much wrong. And, you know, we were just saying, I think that's a lot of the afghanistan war, too.

There was one of the best videos out of the afghanistan war that's so ridiculous. Is watching geraldo rivera interview soldiers that are guarding poppy fields because they have to guard the poppy fields, because if they don't, then these poppy farmers won't side with them, and then they'll side with the Taliban. So they're interviewing american soldiers who are guarding heroin being grown. And then during the United States occupation of Afghanistan, heroin production went up, I think at the peak, like 96%. Yeah, I heard that as well.

And it was a giant percentage of the world's supply of heroin. And we are guarding it. Like, what? And it didn't become that until after we went over there. And you don't think someone had a piece of that?

That's crazy talk. If they did it with the contras in the sandinistas, you don't think they would do it with Afghanistan? I think there's rogue elements that look at drug dealing and look at it as an opportunity to make money to fund black ops projects, to fund things that are, you know, that don't get put on the ledger. Nobody has to know about. Well, I mean, and just think that if we didn't have situations like what you got here with your podcast, that people wouldn't even know about this stuff, right?

B
Where would the normal person find out? They're not going to talk about that on CNN. No. Nightline, dayline, NBC. None of those people going to talk about.

A
No. These topics. I mean. I mean, I'd be totally baffled, Joey, with some of the stuff that takes place in this country. You know, I've been on every major news channel in this country since I've been home.

B
I feel I have done some amazing things. You know, I spoke at UCLA, USC, Stanford, St. John's. Nobody covered it. Nobody came and heard me talk to young people about how they're gonna get started selling drugs.

How you gonna get introduced to drugs? Who's gonna introduce you to drugs? Like, most people don't even know how people get introduced to drugs. They thinking that it's some boogeyman that comes with a dark jacket on, and he's hiding in the dark. Hey, little kid, you want some drugs?

And I'm like, no, that's not how it's gonna happen. It's gonna be your best friend. It's gonna be your uncle, your father, your mother, your brother, your sister. Those are the ones that you trust. Those are the ones that can get your confidence to make you accept something that, you know, some strange guy come around.

You know, most girls gonna take off, you know, but your friends, the people that you care about, that you trust, you gonna believe in them, and they cover none of this. Nobody covers this. Nobody talks about this. Nobody talks about good things that go on in the community, you know, feeding the homeless people who are trying to do housing. Like your guy, who you just showed me.

I never heard of this guy. Right. You know, why is he not being talked about? Why is he not on the news? You know, why they're not trying to get funding for him?

You know why they're not saying, man, if this guy had a couple hundred million dollars or, or, you know, I mean, in California, taxpayers agreed to give up extra taxes. I think they raised like a billion and some change for the homeless problem. Where did the money go? Where's that money? Bureaucracy, that's where it went to.

A
Went to a bunch of people's salaries. It didn't fix shit. And that's the problem that I have with our major news people. You know, it's bias. You know, they're not gonna keep it 100.

B
They're not gonna be real. You know, they can't. They're funded. That's what's really crazy. The news probably should be, they probably shouldn't be allowed to be advertised.

A
They shouldn't be allowed to have advertisers. Because as soon as you have advertisers, especially like pharmaceutical drug companies and big corporations, then you can't criticize those people. Those people are the people that pay your bills. And even if it's not written down anywhere, you're not gonna, like, go do an investigative journalism on Pfizer. If brought to you by Pfizer, you're not gonna do any of that.

B
There you go, right there. You're not gonna do that shit. So you're not the news anymore. And that answers your question about the rapper. Yeah.

Why wouldn't they question him? Because he's backed by big corporations. Exactly. And he's worth a lot of money. He's gonna keep generating money for all those people, and he still is.

A
Like, how many years ago was this case? Ooh wee. Yeah. Think about how much money he's made with that name since that case. I can't remember.

B
Ten years, twelve years, because I was still on parole. I was still on parole. When. When we were doing that case, he. Bought a Vander Holyfield's house in Atlanta.

Yeah. You know that house that Evander Holyfield Vander when he was a champ was going crazy. And I guess he just built the craziest fucking house. I mean, it's just this enormous, enormous house on this giant piece of land with 50. 50 some bedrooms.

A
I heard something crazy, like, I don't know what he's doing. I guess he just wanted the biggest crazy. I'm the fucking champ, I want the biggest, craziest fucking house that's ever existed. And he had to wind up selling it. And then Rick Ross lives in it now.

Just like nuts guys running around with your name. But that's our system. And those are the people that are leading our people. They're the ones that's dictating what's going to go on in society, man. I mean, so much of our kids are being educated by music, by tv.

Yeah. I mean, I've actually went to a school and the kids accused me of stealing his name.

How old were the kids? 1415. Did you have to tell them? Yeah, I told them. They didn't believe me.

They didn't believe me? No. Wow. Because they've been brainwashed, you know. You know what they call it?

B
Programming. Yeah. Over and over and over and over again, you know, and that's why, you know, I started my own record label. You know, the two guys that's outside, those are two artists that I'm working with right now. Goretti and Juice, the Mac.

I said, you know what? I'm gonna start my own label. I'm gonna get somebody to go against you. You gotta fight fire with fire. So, you know, I got into.

I'm doing so many things right now, man, but I'm having fun, Joe. That's good. It's good to hear. I'm helping people. It's good to see you helping them.

With their career, you know? And I enjoy helping people with their career. That's beautiful. So the marijuana business, like, did you get nervous about being. Cause it is still federally illegal, even though.

A
Is it. Is it officially schedule three now or is it scheduled to be schedule three? Like, what is the current status of. I always stayed away from it. I got a bunch of offers to do it like as a trap because still schedule one.

B
Yeah. You know, like there's, like I said, that delta nine stuff, that's legal, I think, in total state. Totally. We know some people. Some states, I think I will weed states abandon it.

A
Oh, really? Because it's taking away tax dollars. Oh, no. So we.

So weed states are banning delta nine THC. That is hilarious. It goes against marijuana. Oh my God. That's taking away marijuana sales.

Spy versus spy dog eat dog. Because they can't tax, you know, they can't tax CBD. Well, CBD's different. We're talking about delta nine THC, but. CBD, it's a derivative, you know, it's all part of the same.

B
And, you know, they fall under the same category. Really? Yeah. Interesting. They're just a little different, you know?

A
Yeah. Well, isn't Brittany Griner, she got arrested for in Russia for CBD vape pen. Right. Which a lot of. I think that was marijuana.

Was it marijuana? They said it was marijuana. Oh, okay. So she was saying it was CBD.

Cause they do have CBD vape pens. They do. I know people like, well, CBD is fair, phenomenal for inflammation. It's so good just for just general well being and just health and alleviating anxiety, alleviating inflammation. CBD is phenomenal.

And there's places that. Where that's illegal, which is just bananas. Yeah. And California's trying to make it illegal right now. Cause it's taking away their tax dollars.

That is so stupid. That's so stupid. It hurts my feelings. Cause they sell it in every smoke shop. Got CBD.

They try to make it illegal. Yeah. Oh my God, that's so dumb. That's so dumb. That is so dumb.

B
But a lot of states that actually sell marijuana. What happens next? The process of reclassifying a substance is lengthy. There's still more hurdles to clear. The plan has been approved by Attorney General Merrick Garland and heads next to the DEA, which will take public comment on the proposal.

A
After 60 day comment period, there'll be a review by the administrative judge. The move started with a recommendation from the federal Health and Human Services department, which launched to review the drug status and the urging of President Biden in 2022. This is a long ass process, but the DEA has not yet formed its own determination as to where marijuana should be scheduled and it expects to learn more during the rulemaking process. That's funny. Learn more.

Come on, guys. Come on, guys. Yeah. You know what it is with Dea? They don't want it to be.

B
Of course they can keep locking people up. Oh, we need more money. That's what's really crazy. It's the prison guard unions. Prison guard unions lobby to make sure that marijuana stays illegal in certain places.

Absolutely. That is something that they got big budgets. Yeah, they do. And that is something that is just wrong. That is wrong in this world that we have private prisons and that we have people that are benefiting and profiting off of people being in jail.

A
Because as soon as you make a profit off of something, you're gonna want to keep making that profit. Yes. And they want to keep you there longer. And if. Imagine if there was just no more lawbreakers.

Imagine if a genie cast a magic spell on the world and everybody just stopped committing crimes. No more crimes. And then you can't put anybody in prison. What the fuck? They'd be like, what about our business?

Let's make other things. Crimes. How about thought crimes? I don't like the way you looked at me. That's crime.

B
We got these big facilities we built. Yeah. Worth unbelievable amounts of money that generate money. They treat human beings like a battery, like you're a battery. That generates money.

A
And that's what it's like in these things. It's bizarre that we allow that. It's bizarre that people didn't see where that was going, that they allowed private prisons. Well, they sold fear. Yeah, well, in this country, you don't.

B
Lock them up, anybody, if you don't lock them up, they don't come into your house and rob you and kill you. There's a big thing that's a hang up for schedule three drugs. Okay. For example, the proposal does not specify whether state licensed dispensaries would need to be licensed pharmacies, because only a pharmacy can dispense schedule three drugs. Other questions surrounded the coordination of federal regulations related to drug approval, manufacturing, supply chain monitoring, storage, and prescribing.

A
So prescribing would go back to prescribing it? Yeah, it needs to be legal. Like, what happens if it gets legal in all the states? Here's the thing. It's legal right now for recreational use.

In how many states? I think it's 19. Is it 19 states? So what happens if it's all 50 and the federal government is not with us here? The federal government, we believe, is a schedule one.

B
And they still allow it to be taxed? Yes. When it becomes a schedule three, the taxes are changed too. Right? They're probably make less sketch.

Yeah. They make less taxes as a schedule. 324 now that allow 24 use. 24, 38 half of the country. Yes.

A
So 38 states have medical. Is Texas have medical? 38? They do, but it's very low. You gotta have AIDS.

B
Yeah.

A
Be on death's door, you gotta be on desk door lock. Give them one joint and regulate it. But you can believe a lot of money coming out of Texas, going to other places. Yeah. It's stupid.

B
It's stupid. They're not exactly. It should be legal. 38, medical and recreational. So 19, did you say 24?

A
So half the country, three states have no access. It's Idaho, Nebraska and Kansas. So Texas has a CBD, low THC program, and then adult and medical use regulated program is all over the place now. New Mexico, Nevada, California, Colorado, Missouri, Illinois, Minnesota, Montana, Washington, Oregon, Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, even fucking New York, which is like, New York used to be a bad place to get weed. If you got weed in New York, you smoke weed outside, they'd arrest you.

You get caught outside, try to buy weed. I mean, New York was scammed. And now I go there and there's stores everywhere. I'm like, this is crazy. Vegas.

Vegas was dangerous, man, during the seventies when Hunter S. Thompson's day, you would get fucking thrown in jail for your life, for your whole life for having weed on you. And now they have stores everywhere. Biggest stores in the country. Yeah, huge stores.

It should be that way everywhere. And they should make money from taxes. Let's not be stupid. So what does the federal government do if now it's 24? So it's literally half the country has legal marijuana.

What happens if it's all of the country? The federal government is like, we're the country now. The fucking. It's supposed to be the states. You like this set up this way on purpose?

If you. You have to have the states give the states rights to regulate things. If the people have decided, and all those other states. Look, man, if you ask the average person, if we had a vote, just a popular opinion vote in this country, whether marijuana should be legal, I agree 100%. I mean, what is the amount of people that approve and the amount of people that don't approve it?

They're probably ignorant. Or there are people that are like hardcore, you know, anti everything people. Yeah, yeah, but the. I think. I think the country would be safer.

B
I mean, have you ever known anybody smoking marijuana? Go out and commit a robbery, hit somebody over the head? No. They're going to sit on the couch and they're going to get something to eat. Yeah, they're gonna be watching tv.

A
It's not the kind of drug that encourages people to do horrible things. If I had my way, I would give it to gang bangers for free. Nearly seven in ten registered voters favor legalizing the recreational use of marijuana on a national level. Seven out of ten. Wow.

And it's still illegal? I mean, how is that we the people. No, what is that? No, what is that? Is that to serve and protect?

What the fuck is going on? What are you doing? It's just weed, kids. We know what it is. You know how many people died from weed?

Zero. Ever. Zero ever. Zero ever. The only way you die from weed is if a CIA drug plane throws a bale out the window of a plane and it hits you in the head.

That's how you die are they rate. Your house and shoot you. Yeah. Or you. Yeah.

Get a no knock raid. Yeah, no knock raids are crazy. That is crazy. Just bust into someone's house, and if someone breaks into your house, what do you do? You shoot them.

That's what most people do. And then the cops shoot you. It's like the whole thing is crazy. Why would you be rating somebody house for weed? For weed?

For weed. I mean, we're gonna look back in the future on this. Like they look at the inquisition. We're gonna, what the fuck was wrong with people back then? Yeah.

They're gonna look at us like that. How many people went to jail? How many people's lives got ruined over marijuana? How much money? Are you kidding?

B
How much money did they blow exactly? Talking about they have a homeless population that don't have a place to stay and people not having anything to eat. Yeah, it's going to be crazy. Yeah, you can tax it, folks. Legalize it and tax it.

A
Even if you don't want to do it yourself, you don't have to do it yourself. I know a lot of people that hate weed. Good. Don't use it. You don't have to.

I get it. And don't sell it. Don't sell it. But you know what's so funny? The people who used to lock everybody up, now they selling it.

A lot of them do. Yeah. I know cops that sell weed now. Well, the biggest cop, the biggest weed dealer probably in America, was an ex cop.

B
He's the biggest guy. He just bought $5 million. I mean, 5,000,008. No, 5 million grow area. That's so bananas.

He's the biggest. He's the biggest guy probably in the country. Well, good for him. But that should be. Did you lock people up?

A
So nuts. So nuts. I mean, those should be the guys. They say, oh, you still lock people up for marijuana? You cannot get into business.

B
Yeah, if I had my way, that's what I would do. Hey. Yeah. Did you. Did you lock somebody up?

A
Yeah. Okay. You can't get in. Or we take the amount of time that you locked all those people up for, and then you have to wait that amount of time before you could sell. So you can sell weed in three more lives.

Probably wouldn't be that. Probably a hundred lives. Yeah. This is. This country's crazy, man.

Wow. People are crazy. People are crazy everywhere. You know, it's like, it's hard to keep your shit together, you know? And we give people power over other people.

People that don't have their shit together have power over other people. And then things get. Just get worse. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird.

We don't learn. You know? A friend of mine sent me the lyrics to the song, I'd love to change the world, which is like 70, 71 or something like that. And he's like, isn't it crazy that there's like a cycle like. Cause the same shit they're talking about then is going on now.

And then I sent him this assyrian tablet from 2800 BC that talked about the same thing. We talked about it the other day on the podcast. This assyrian tablet talk about the end of the world, that children aren't listening to their parents and people are lying and the world's falling apart in 2800 bc. Wow. So it's like this cycle of people being stupid and just not getting their shit together has been going on forever, but there's never been more information than ever before.

Like, the access to information that people have right now is unprecedented. Oh, yeah. The fact that we continue to make the same stupid mistakes, regardless of that, is just really insane. That's what's really disheartening. But you know what, the way I see it, it doesn't matter if you're smart, it's who got the loudest horn.

B
If your horn toots the loudest, everybody hears you. And if the message gets out first. If the loud toot horn message gets out first, it takes forever for the truth to like, overcome that, to get in. Yeah, forever. There's also.

A
People don't. Once they. Once they accept something in their head, it takes forever. Yeah. Becomes theirs.

B
They own it. They own it. This is mine. I don't want to change it. Something has to happen to them, but they change it.

Yeah. You know. No, I agree, I agree. I see that all the time. You know, you talk to people, you'd be like, man, that didn't work.

Oh, no, it worked. It work. I just did it wrong that time.

A
Let's keep trying to lock people up. We're gonna fix it. We're gonna fix it through locking people up. Yeah. We gonna get it right.

B
We just gotta lock up more people, build more jails. Yeah. Hire more police. Yeah. It's just.

A
It's just disheartening when you see the same patterns repeated over and over again, regardless of how much people know. But I think there's also a problem with, you know, we think people know, but I think a lot of people don't know what the fuck is going on. A lot of people don't really have. An understanding where they gonna get the information, right? Exactly who they get it from, right.

B
We already. We already went through CNN, Fox, the local radio station, you know, especially if you talking about hip hop. I mean, if you turn on hip hop radio stations, I would not let my kids listen to a hip hop radio station because they're gonna be talking about killing, pimping, selling drugs, killing. I mean, you'd be like, what the fuck? They let this stuff play on the air.

I mean, it's crazy. It is crazy. And then they wonder why the kids bring guns to school. But did you also see there's. There's been these articles written about the CIA's involvement in the creation of gangsta rap that they.

A
They helped promote and push gangsta rap? I didn't see that. Yeah, this is. It's all of it's controversial, but I wouldn't be surprised, because they apparently they had a. They had some sort of an involvement in the rock and roll movement of the 1960s in Laurel Canyon.

And there's been books written about this that they have some sort of involvement in promoting these kind of activities, both with rock and roll in the sixties and then gangsta rap in the eighties. And they do it to try. I think the idea is they do it to try to make sure that society is always in a state of unrest and that they wanted to keep. They need that. Yeah, they wanted to keep people in a state of unrest and promote criminal behavior and criminal activity and gang activity and to do it in popular music and that that would make more crime and make more things happen and that they would.

They can get away with more levers of control because of that. Makes sense. Makes sense. See, you've seen that before, right, Jamie? Yeah, it comes from.

It comes from this. Is it bullshit? Well, it's not that it's bullshit. It's like an ominous letter that went around the Internet, the secret meeting that changed rap music and destroyed a generation. So it got printed on, like, a hip hop blog and kind of went viral from there.

B
Oh, yeah, I remember. I remember that letter I talked about the big meeting where all the record labels got together because they knew they wasn't selling music anymore, so they invested in prison. Yeah, but that doesn't say no one knows who wrote it, you know, ever claimed, like, that was right. That's it. That's the only source of it.

A
There wasn't other sources. And then it went viral, and everyone, some people that liked it, repeated it, and others, you know, I don't know, seems to be the source of it. I thought there was some other things. I thought there was other discussions about different meetings that took place. Nothing official.

I wouldn't be surprised if. I mean, it makes sense, you know, if you listen to what they're promoting now, you know, they don't promote no positive music. Right. No love songs. You know, we was coming up, it was, it was.

B
It was by love songs. Marvin Gaye. Yes, yes. Lou. The Randros.

A
Yeah. It's weird that that would be a strategy that would work if you wanted civil unrest, if you wanted people to stay fucked up, you wanted people to not organize, not rise up. What's the best strategy? Promote illegal activity. Promote it.

Promote drug dealings. Promote. Make it look good. Make it look good. Dress them up.

B
Give me van. Give me Vander Holyfield's house. Even if you used to be a correctional officer and now you're a gangster, tell them you sold 300 kilos. How'd you get this house? Oh, I sold 300 kilos.

A
How many people do you think actually know the story, the whole story, the real story, your story of you and this guy who calls himself Rick Ross. I think older people know, but younger people don't. They don't get it. Wow.

B
They're not educated on facts. They don't go with facts. They go with what they hear on the radio, what their local dj talks about. Those are the things that they go with. And we already know that the local dj is getting paid by the record companies.

So that's what they believe. I believe that. They really believe that Jay Z got rich selling drugs. You know, they believe that. I don't believe Jay Z got rich selling drugs.

You know, he doesn't act like a drug dealer, in my personal opinion. What's the difference doing with the way he acts? Well, drug dealers are kind of like we're looking for somebody to help come up. Because when you help him come up, you come up. You know, say, for instance, if I find a guy, he's down on his luck, and I give him a kilo, he starts to sell this kilo.

I benefit every time he sells that kilo because I get a percentage of what he does. But the way the record business works is they don't help anybody. You know, when. When they get on top, they just stay there, and it's almost like they're gatekeepers, you know, they don't want other people to get in. Me, I would have been looking for somebody like me getting out of jail.

Oh, Rick Ross is getting out of jail. Oh, my goodness. I'm gonna be at the gate when he get out, I'm gonna show him everything he's supposed to do. Get him right. Cause I know he has the discipline, he has the focus that he's gonna make it.

A
Yeah, but don't you think that that's just you? I think you have a unique perspective. But that's a drug dealer's perspective. Is it really? A successful drug dealer's perspective?

B
A successful drug dealer's perspective. Let me correct that. And most of the drug dealers I was around were successful because I used to try to teach them. I taught them what I did. You know, when they was young, I was, hey, this is what you do.

This is how you do it. This who you look for. And so you're probably right. A successful drug dealer's perspective. Most successful drug dealers go to prison.

And so we know Jay Z didn't go to prison, even though he was in a car with, I think, Calvin Klein, when he got arrested. Da let Jay Z go. Mmm. That's. That's the story that I heard.

I'm not. I'm not totally sure how he was. In a car with Calvin Klein. They talked about jeans. What are they doing?

There's a guy named Calvin Klein that was different from New York. Oh, and Calvin. Calvin Klein, a drug dealer? He was a drug dealer. Oh, okay.

A
I didn't know that. Yeah, he was a drug dealer. I thought. You mean, like, no one. The genes.

You thought the gene guy? No, no, this was a drug dealer out of New York. Oh, that's hilarious. And he got Calvin Klein's name. Like, Rick Ross took your name.

Unless his name was really Calvin Klein. That's possible. No, I think the guy real name was Calvin Klein. Really? Oh, that's really good.

B
You know. Cause he was a real street guy, went to prison in the whole nine yards. But it's a story that talks about that, how Jay Z was in the car with him when he got arrested, and, you know, he didn't get arrested. So more than likely that meant that, in my experience, if you're in a car with a drug dealer and the cops raid, they take everybody that was involved. So that tells me that Jay Z wasn't involved with that activity.

A
Got it. At least at that time that they knew. Right. And usually, the DA, they watch you and someone when they're not lazy. But how.

What is it like in the world? Like, if you rap about selling drugs and about how you were selling drugs, but you weren't selling drugs, that can't be looked upon. Well, if you're lying and you're making up a fake Persona. It shouldn't be. Right.

B
It shouldn't be back. You know, in the nineties, when. When, you know, when rap was supposed to be authentic, you know, people wrote their own lyrics and. Right. And that stuff, it was a little different than the way it is right now.

You know, now, you know, people can write your lyrics. You can steal people's names. You can steal their verses. It's just totally different than the way it used to be. You know, you can buy your way to the top now.

You know, you don't have to have talent, necessarily. The most talented guys are not the guys who are running the industry. A lot of the talented guys are producers, too. Right. And they can kind of make anybody famous.

Yeah. If you have some talent and a. Look and you go pay the right producer. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of. Examples because music is, you know, music is programming.

You know, you hear the sound and you like that sound, and that's why we hear the same sounds over and over on the radio, because it's the same producers that are producing music. Like, I'm just waiting to get my money, right, so I can go to the producers and be like, hey, I know you been putting all these guys on. I got a guy for you. Put him on. We ready?

How much you need? 100,000. Do it. Cause that's really what it is. You know, it's only a few guys who.

Music you hear on the radio over and over again. Wow. But then you have people who just stand out just because of talent still. You still have that once, once in a while, you know, want to break through. You know, you get somebody that's, like, super, super good, and, you know, their music just.

Just break through. But that's rare. They still got to have some money. Mmm. You got to pay Facebook and tick tock gatekeepers and.

A
Yeah, there's just a lot. It's an industry, right? There's a lot of money involved. As soon as there's a lot of money involved, there's control. People want to maintain control of that.

They don't want someone coming along. Yeah. I mean, I look at. I look at my case, right? If you go on the Internet, I got millions and millions of views where I've done interviews with different people and.

B
And talked to different people. But then you go on my instagram, I got 300,000 followers. Instagram is weird, man. I walked through the airport, right? I can hardly walk through the airport, people.

Rick, can I get a picture? And then my friends be like, man, all the people looking at you, they want to talk to you. But, you know. So when I experienced that, I understand that they haven't let me grow to where I should be. Yeah.

A
But I think there's. I think social media companies other than Twitter x now, I think they all have different ways of limiting growth, just different things. Like my friend Coleon Noir. He has an Instagram page that's dedicated to second amendment. He was a lawyer, and he does a lot of second amendment stuff.

A lot of, like, talking about guns and gun laws and different things. He's been stuck at 1 million followers forever. He's been on this podcast, like, how many times? How many times? Coleon been on?

Five. Six. Five or six times. Great guy. Interesting.

Really fun to talk to. Smart as fuck. Like, you would think his shit would grow stuck. Stuck at 1 million. Just stuck?

Like, locked up? Yeah. Like, what's going on there? How is that. How is that even possible?

It's only possible if someone's limiting the growth. Absolutely. There's no other way. If you come on this podcast and 11 million people, or 15 million people, whatever the fuck it is. See you.

What is the odds that you stay at 1 million? It's almost zero. I agree. It's almost zero. Especially if it's an interesting episode.

He's always interesting. He's a smart dude. Why would people not follow him? Of course they would. They'd have to find him.

It's hard to find people. They make it difficult on some social media platforms to find people. They make their posts limited so only the followers can see it, other people can't see it. Yeah. It's just this weird thing that they do.

And if you're a guy that at least at one point in your life was involved in illegal activities, they'd probably just shove you into a box. Like, they'd shove you into a category. They have you in some sort of an algorithm. It's just like. Like, every now and then, someone finds you.

But it's not easy. It's not. We'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll see what Instagram does after.

If you're at. What are you at now? Okay, let's. Let's check right now. I'm gonna check your page right now.

B
300 and something. Let's check right now. So you are. Right now. You are at.

A
Let's get down to you here. What is it, Jimmy? Yeah, something like that here. You just. We just went back and forth with each other, so I'll check right now.

Now. Profile. Yeah, 392. So you're at 392,000. Let's see what happens.

B
Yeah, let's see what happens. Instagram, stop fucking around. I think they fuck around with me, too, which sounds crazy because I have 19 million, but I'm like, how come I only have. Yeah, but you. Everybody in America knows you fucks going on.

Everybody in America knows you. I mean, I. I mean, we did that show, what, almost ten years ago? Yeah. People still coming to me in the airport, man.

I know you're Joe Rogan. Huh? Did you tell Joe?

I said, don't tell me, tell Joe. I'm talking about still to this day, people walk up to me and tell me that they loved our episode. And that's a long time ago. So there's probably been 1600 different episodes since then or more. Probably more than that.

And I remember we was like, what, 60 or 80 or something like that. Something crazy like that. The early days. You were in the early days when I was just starting to interview people. Yeah, I was just starting to have interesting people on the podcast.

I never heard of a podcast. A lot of people came on back then didn't. I didn't know what a podcast was. You know what I told my guys today? We sitting out there, I said, had I recognized what a podcast was and started a podcast, I would have been the first black guy probably with a podcast back then.

A
You might have been. So what year? So this is like two. 2000. May 4, 2013.

20. 1311 years. 200 and 811 years. Episode 208. 2000 episodes since then.

2000. Is that the first one or the second one? That's the first 1. Second one is 262. Wow.

That's crazy. That's crazy. And they still remember that. Well, you should do your own now. I'll be so busy.

Joe, listen to me. Stop right there. I told you to do a t shirt, do a podcast. It's easy. It's not hard to do, man.

B
It's easy. It'll promote your business. Now, you just called me on now. You know, listen, it's an easy thing. It doesn't cost much money, man.

A
It's real economical. You know, you upload to YouTube, it's free. YouTube's free. You get one of those platforms that supports podcasting and. And they do things and they help you get ads and not that hard, man.

And I bet right away you would get. Especially after this episode, you get a big audience. It's an easy way. And then I'm working on some stuff. Then before you know it, you have 20 episodes, 30 episodes, you get better at it.

People like it, and you could talk about all kinds of things. You could interview different people. You could have conversations with friends, and then you develop a following, and the next thing you know, it helps your business. It helps with the other things you do. It helps speaking engagements, all these other different things.

B
Yeah, they've been telling me to do it. Yeah. And I've been like, oh, no, you late. You waited too late. You could have a podcast that's called the Real Rick Ross is not a rapper.

A
That's a great name for a podcast. That's a great name for a podcast. I thought that was an awful name for a t shirt.

I think that's a great name for a podcast. It'll pique people's interest right away. They're like, what? The real Rick Ross is not a rapper. What kind of fucking podcast is this?

B
Yeah. And then people hear your story. They're like, oh, my God. I didn't even know. This is crazy.

Yeah, yeah, I might take your advice on that one. It's a great idea. I took your advice last time, and I benefited. I'm telling you, it's a good idea. Hey, crazily, you know, like, right now, this t shirt still brings in revenue.

A
That's beautiful. Well, we'll bring in a lot more after this one. But it's just. It just makes sense. I mean, it's only just another method to get your word out there.

B
And we need. We need platforms. Yes. You know, because the people with. You know, some of the people with the platforms don't use them to.

To benefit the people. Well, also we need platforms from a person like yourself that has gone through this arc of life, you know, this interesting arc of life, you know, that finds yourself a completely different person now than who you were when you were 28 years old selling drugs. It's just a different when 19. When I started. When I was 28, I was addict.

A
Hmm. I was stuck when I was 20. Yeah. You know, it's a different when. When you go.

B
You go seven, eight years selling drugs, you don't even know anymore. You, like, out your mind. You're crazy. You're just in the business. In the business.

A
Well, especially if your business is making $3 million a day. Yeah. That is just so crazy. So crazy. How much money do you think you earned over the entire course of selling drugs?

B
Well, you figure just my two best years.

So you say 360 days in a year. Just those two years was like, what, 600 million? Something like that. Not profit, though. Not profitable.

A
Right. That's not profit, of course, but just. The amount of money you make. Profit. I make every million.

B
I probably make 200 to 300,000 profit off every million. I was able to take that much out. So that is an insane. And then that's not counting the other six years, because I sold, like, eight years. I did like eight, maybe nine years in the drug business.

And so, you know, before I was making a million dollars a day, I was making 500,000 a day. Right. And before I was making 500, I was making 400, 300, 200. Right. You know, one time, 10,000 a day, you know, so it just.

Yeah, but all those numbers add up, you know? You talking about 100,000 a day ain't bad numbers, you know? Yeah. A couple million dollars a month. So I made quite a bit of money.

I mean, it went through my hands. Yeah. Not that I made, but money that went through my hands. Right. That I touched.

A
It's crazy. With some crazy numbers, we'll probably be. Probably be in the billions. Billions, yeah, probably would be in the billions. That life and that.

That experience that you've had is very unique. There's not a whole lot of human beings that are out there wandering around that can say that. So that perspective that you have would be very valuable for people just to. Just to hear what you did and what you went through in your life. It's a very unique story, man.

And it's a. It's an american story. It is. It really is. It is american story.

B
And I thought that America should know about it. That's why I wrote the book. And, you know, when I wrote that book, I didn't know if I was ever getting out of prison. Wow, that was like my letter to the world, you know? Like, wow, this is how it happened, you know, so that you don't.

You don't form your own personal opinion without getting to know the person. Right. Because so many people we form opinions about. I didn't really like the way the government characterized us drug dealers, you know, like, we was raving maniacs. You know, when I got arrested, I was a danger to the community.

That's how they denied me bond. Oh, he's a danger to the community. Like, I'm gonna take a gun and go to McDonald's and just go to killing people. Like, no, it don't work like that. That's not who I was.

You know, I had absolutely no violence in my case, you know, which is. Pretty incredible for some reason. It could have been violence. I could have been violent. I had guns, but I never used them.

So why am I considered a danger to the community? So they consider drugs a danger. And even when we went to jail, you know, I was black boxed. You know, they put a black box on you, they put handcuffs on you, and then they got this little black box that they slide over the handcuffs so that your hands are, like, stiff, and then they cuff you to your waist and you can't even use the bathroom, you know, like, it's crazy. And then when you go to prison, you go to the worst part of the prison because they classify you with the guys who do murders and the bombers.

And so now they got drug dealers who I consider myself almost like a white collar crime, you know, businessman. A businessman. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't looking to hurt nobody, but we were still classified like that. So I wanted to show people the mentality that I had. No, yeah, I did get crazy with drugs.

You know, I wanted to sell all the drugs I could sell. I mean, my, my mission in life became, sell as much drugs as you can. You know, it wasn't about making money anymore. It was like, become the biggest drug dealer that you can become. You know, be great.

That's how I felt. Right? Be great at it. Right? You know, fuck how much money you make and you already, you're not gonna spend all the money you got.

You don't even spend the money you make now, but just be great at what you do. So it wasn't about money anymore. It just became, you know, I'm gonna be great at it. Isn't it crazy that, that mentality you can apply to almost any industry, just unfortunately, you applied it to the wrong one. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, and somebody asked me before, do I have any regret? That would probably, if I had a regret, that would be the regret that I didn't take those skills. But I learned so much from selling drugs. Those fucking guys taught me, man. They taught me what the teachers couldn't teach me because they had a different passion to teach me.

They wanted me to, motherfucker, get smart so you can get my drugs cheap and good. We need you to be smart. We don't want no dummy. We don't want to be getting our dummy. Not drugs for no dummy.

So you get smart so you can make sure that when we come get our drugs, we're going to be safe. We're going to get the best drugs. The price is going to be right. We like what you do. So we teaching you and they taught me.

I mean, if somebody would have told me about a gram. A gram? What the hell is a gram? What is a 10th of a gram? What is an 8th of a, you know, what is an 8th?

What is a quarter ounce? What is an ounce? I didn't know none of that shit. I failed science in school. Cause I couldn't read, huh?

I never went to science. They put me in special ed. Wow. I sit in the classroom and make paper airplanes. You know what I'm saying?

I'm throwing paper airplanes around the classroom. I know nothing about no science. But when I started, got in the drug business, they taught me. They showed me where the gram was, and they showed me how to work a triple beam, and I didn't know none of that shit. They showed me what a money counter was.

They taught me how to work a money counter. I didn't know none of that shit, Joe. I was green, man. We missed one of the greatest fucking interviews, man. The guy that I bought my first ounce from, he was paralyzed when I got out of prison.

And we were shooting a documentary, and I go to his house, you know, when I found him, I found him. I went and found him because, you know, he was like my partner, you know, I loved him. I knew he was paralyzed too. When I went to prison, he was already paralyzed. But when I got out, he was like, on his last leg, and I almost got him to talk, man, on camera.

He talked off camera, and he told us. And what I should have did, I should have promised him, man, do the interview when you die, I'll put it out, but I won't put it out until after you're dead. And I didn't. I wasn't thinking in my right mind, you know, you never want to tell a friend that he's gonna die. That was the first thing.

I didn't want to say that. But, man, he told us about me when I started, and it was just, like, so fascinating to hear him talk about me to me, you know, and he's laughing about how green I was, how he used to take dope out of the bag, and I didn't know he had took it out the bag. He said, man, I wouldn't sell him a kilo because I could get four extra ounces out of the. Out of the kilo and I could sell him a pound. And it was just so much stuff.

And it was, like, amazing for me to understand that at one time I knew absolutely nothing about cocaine. I'd never seen cocaine before. And they taught me. They took me and molded me. What's really crazy is that even though that sounds like, oh, my God, that's illegal activity, that's drug dealing.

A
But it's really a system. And you figured out how to excel inside this system. You figured out a business, and you really could have done that with anything. Yeah. To me, it wasn't illegal.

B
I mean. I mean, I understood it was illegal, but I understand now, like you saying that it was. The mentality of being able to be taught, to be able to listen, to be able to follow instructions, was the part that I feel was the most valuable lessons in this whole thing, is that I learned to follow instructions. I learned to listen. I'm doing the same thing with the weed business.

When I first got into the weed business, you know, when I was out of jail and we were smoking weed and stuff, it was like two kinds of weed and indica. That was it. Now, fuck, it's thousands of different strains. And botanists got involved. Scientists got involved.

So they tell me, smell the weed. Shit. I can't smell shit.

I don't know the smell. I don't know nothing. So I had to learn the smell. You know, I had to learn what. What smell you're looking for.

So I basically. What smell are you looking for?

Well, now, one time it was the gas. The OG smell, and it was really, like, gassy smell, like gasoline. Really stanky. Now it's a candy smell. Like a sativa.

Like a sativa. Sweet. You know, they want that good taste. That's what everybody's into. Mellow.

Yes. But now the stuff I just gave you is the brand new stuff that the guy just created. You got. You got what he call. He calls it candy gas.

A
Oh, boy. This guy, hybrid. It's a hybrid. He has the highest testing weed in California. My partner from Green Dragon is the name of his company, and he just invented this strictly for me.

B
He said, rick, this is the first time that anybody gonna get candy gas. He said, will you please get Joe Rogan your jars and tell him to let us know how he like it? But it's candy gas. So it's gonna have the OG high, you know? OG, knock him out on the couch, stretched out, give me something to eat.

I ain't moving, but it's gonna have that sweet candy taste that everybody's looking for. So he's saying that this year is gonna, like, shake the market up. Mmm. It's funny. So I know how to do all that.

I know the smells. Now, that's interesting. It's funny how much it varies, you know. Really does. And he's a scientist, like you said.

He's a botanist, you know, went to school for it and the whole nine yards. So once they got involved. Yeah, total different game. Yeah, totally different game. It got scary.

A
Like they started making some just insane high THC content. Weeds. Yeah. One of the arguments about it being illegal, it's like the marijuana of today is different than the marijuana back in the day. It's so strong and people are going crazy.

Like, listen, people are going crazy no matter what you do. Yeah. You know? Well, at least they're not using fit now. That's true.

And that's also the problem with things being illegal, that they're cutting it. They're cutting it when you're buying it from the cartel. You know, there's a lot of stuff that people are buying from the cartel. It's cut with fentanyl a lot. Including like street pills.

Like pills like fake Xanax and fake valiums. And it's all cut with fentanyl, fake Molly. And like you said, that's what happens when you put that illegal market together. Exactly. And meanwhile, it costs us a hundred thousand lives every year just in this country from opiate overdoses.

And what are they doing to stop that? Nothing. It's just. It's so perplexing. It's so perplexing the problems of our world today.

It really is, because it's such a complicated series of issues and it doesn't seem like any progress is being made. Like, even the minimal progress that's being made with marijuana, like, the good progress is states making it illegal for recreational use, making it legal. But if the federal government still doesn't have it legal, like, what the fuck are they doing? Like, why? How is that still a thing?

B
Your federal government should just get out of it. Yeah. Just wash their hands with it. Leave the states. We're done with it.

Whatever the states do, let it do. That's what they should have done a long. Let's be done with it. Well, they should have rescheduled it. They should have made it legal.

A
Just schedule that. Make it legal. It should be legal. Stupid. The whole thing, stupid.

It's stupid. There's plenty of things. If alcohol is legal, marijuana should be legal. That simple. Alcohol destroys lives, destroys liver.

I had a guy in here last week, he lost his liver and his kidney. And a liver replacement. And a kidney replacement. Just from drinking himself to death and cigarettes. Oh, yeah, all that stuff.

Legal. Totally legal. It's crazy. We live in a strange time, but, you know, it's interesting. Well, we're starting to talk about it.

B
So, yeah, I mean, the first thing, you know, nobody used to talk about drug dealing, right. You know, that was a taboo, you know, to have somebody to come on and say, I sold drugs. Right. You never would have heard that before. No, not like this.

So now we're talking about it, people were starting to understand how to get started selling drugs, what to look for. And that's really all I can do, you know, if I can educate somebody on what to look for when it's coming your way. Hey, I did my job. Yeah. And explain the pitfalls.

A
And also don't ask how much when someone calls you up, when someone gets suspicious. Yeah. Don't get addicted. Because if you get addicted, you're going to ask how much. Right?

B
How much, right. Especially if you're addicted to the thrill of the game, if it's an exciting thing, and then you're not doing that exciting thing anymore and you miss it. It. Because everything that you not supposed to be doing is exciting, at least in some way. Especially something that's massively profitable.

A
At least he documented it right here. Freeway Rick Ross, the untold autobiography, second edition. Well, it's. I took out all the misspellings and, you know, the typos and because, you know, I self published. Oh, okay.

You self publish it. I self publish it. Yeah. So if anybody wanna get it, tell em to go to my website free@rickyross.com. don't go to Amazon.

B
Cause they keep all the money. Amazon keeps all the money. They keep a lot of it. Yeah, we don't get much money. Oh, okay.

I brought you my other one, too. I did that one. Since I've been 21 keys of success. Those are 21 keys that I used when I got out of prison. All right, beautiful.

And this is available on my site as well. Freewayriki.com dot freeway. Rickyross.com. All right. Yeah, I bought you a few gifts.

Thank you, sir. I'm gonna go and give Joe something. That's my other one. Three books. Look at you, man.

I also bought you one of my sweatshirts. All right. And I just want to tell you, man, thanks for the world famous freeway Rick. Thanks for all you did for me. My pleasure.

A
And your story is crazy. And you know what? I'm gonna take your advice on the podcast. You should. You know, I hope you do.

B
Everybody else been telling me, and I've been like, ah, yeah, but I did so well the last time you told me to do something and I would be going against my own principle. You definitely should listen you're an interesting man, and you've had a fascinating life, and we need more interesting people and interesting voices. We need more people. You know, we grow and learn from other people's perspectives of the world. When you get to hear a person who's gone through the life that you've gone through, which is very unusual, when you hear that person talks, it educates you and informs you, and it changes your perspective, you get to add to your perspective of the world from another person's life experiences, and that that benefits everybody.

Oh, no question. I agree. All right, let's do it again sometime, man. Next time we do it, we're talking about your podcast. When the movie come out.

A
Okay? When the movie come out? What is that? Well, we just had the director three weeks ago, so hopefully this summer we go in production. Okay.

When it comes back, you come back. All right. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Bye, everybody.

B
Bye, everybody.

A
Bye, everybody.

#2163 - Freeway Rick Ross

Primary Topic

Episode Summary

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Episode Chapters

1: Introduction and Background

2: The Realities of Drug Dealing

3: Systemic Issues and Personal Growth

4: Efforts in Community Support and Advocacy

5: Looking Forward

Actionable Advice

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