#2147 - Mike Baker

Mike Baker
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Joe Rogan
Mike Baker. It's very important that I ask you about this. What's that? Because I know you're an expert on conflict. How do you feel about the Kendrick Lamar and Drake beef?

Mike Baker
Man, I am so glad you asked me about this because my boys, you know, I got three boys, and all three of them have mentioned this in the past few days, right? And they want. They want to talk about it, right? So Scooter will say, God, did you hear what he said? And I was like, honestly, no, I haven't.

But they've all brought this up. I am completely unfamiliar with the. Although it sounds like the old days, east versus west, right? In the old rap battle, it's a personality thing because one of them is Toronto, so it's actually America versus Canada. Oh, wow.

Joe Rogan
This is real conflict there. And which one is the little guy? Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar, that's right. Yeah.

Mike Baker
So that's what my middle boy sluggo said. I think he's like five foot one or something. He's not a big fellow. Him and Drake have been going at it now four songs apiece. So eight songs dedicated to beef.

I think that's fantastic. I think that. Right. It's better than the Hamas conflict. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
Security guard injured and shooting outside Drake's home in Toronto. Oh, Jesus Christ. Damn it. Was it drive by? And the security guard was outside, said he was shot, I think unconsciously taken to the hospital.

Oh, my God. See, it was. Do not know whether the shooting was related. Well, take a fucking guess. You think it was or was a.

Drive by might be related. Well, that's when shit gets scary, when people start shooting at each other. Yeah, no, I. When it was just cause, like, I think it was sluggo who told me that. One of them, I think it must have been Drake who was talking about his.

Mike Baker
He dissed him by talking about his size, 7ft or something. Right. And that's fine. I think it's great if everybody would just like, if the Israelis and Hamas would go after each other in song. Battle raps.

Yeah. Battle raps. Yeah, why not? Yeah. Dance off.

Joe Rogan
That's how they should do it. It's hilarious. But everybody's invested in this beef. My oldest daughter and my wife were in the car this morning and they were having a conversation, these two grown ass women having a conversation about who's the superior rapper and they felt that Kendrick is a better lyricist. Although Drake has more hits, Drake has more hits started from the bottom.

Now we're here. I mean, look, he's got some bangers. They both have bank. I love Kendrick Lamar. I just wish these two would hug it out.

Mike Baker
Yeah, well, now it's. Now it's moved on to the firefight stage of the. Of the battle. Yeah, well, now they're shooting. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
What did you say? Jim Kendrick's first big point was that it's. It's 20 verse one. Cause Drake has all those ghost riders helping to make all these. All these hits.

Hmm. So that's an allegation in the rap community, apparently, that Drake hires ghost riders. I don't know how I feel about that. So I feel like, the same way. I feel like if I find out someone.

Joe Rogan
There's a banging song, like, beyonce has a song out, I don't get upset if she didn't write it. Do you get upset? It's mostly only in rap that people are like, you didn't write that? Like comedy. Like comedy.

Like the same thing with comedy. Country song. They don't care. Country. They do care.

Mike Baker
Not really. Yeah. I was gonna say guys like Zach Bryan shine through because they write their. Own show, but it's very collaborative. The country's a hugely collaborative.

Joe Rogan
Sure. Tennessee whiskey, right? Tennessee whiskey was a song. Oh, Chris Stapleton. Yeah.

Mike Baker
But, you know, he didn't write it. Came out. Did write. No, it came out. Performed it.

Yeah. Came out years before. He wrote a lot for other people, though, correct. Yeah. But, yeah, just like, I don't even think there's tons of.

Joe Rogan
They write for each other. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's a lot of those guys that, like, Chris Tapleton made a living for a long time as a writer. Yeah.

Because people looked. I'm like, come on, man. You ain't sexy. No. Meanwhile, they were wrong.

And it's. And it's a very. It's a smaller community. Right. You know, the country music community.

Mike Baker
And that does tend to get more crossover between musicians and writers. Right. I mean, a lot of them will start out, like you said, as writers. There you go. Tennessee Whiskey, a country star written by Dean Dillon and Linda Hargrove.

Joe Rogan
Originally recorded by artists David Allen co for his album the same name, peaking at number 77 in the Billboard Hot Country Singles in 1981. Wow. George Jones 1983 version of the song was included on his album shine on and reach, number two on the Hot country singles chart. What great artists. Did you hear that Randy Travis?

Randy Travis is using AI now to make new songs because he's. He was paralyzed by a stroke. But because they could take his voice, which is an iconic voice. Randy Travis has it, incredible voice. But because of AI, they can get recordings of him singing, and he could plug it into AI, and he can still make songs.

Mike Baker
And you know how much of a recording they need nowadays to actually mimic the entire range of a person's voice? 30 seconds. Less than. Not that long ago, it was 30 seconds. Now you need a snippet.

And by a snippet, I mean seconds. And you can then. You can then mimic that voice through a range of emotions and scenarios. It's stunning. There's a guy who just got fired because he made a fake AI recording of a guy he worked for saying a bunch of racist things.

Joe Rogan
And the guy, like, everybody was attacking him and got in trouble. And then they somehow know. They did an analysis on it, and. Real director did it to, like, the principal of the high school. Right.

To get fired. So he's like, instead of me getting fired, watch this. Right. He thought he's being slick. Yeah, but he's a dummy, and he didn't know that.

Joe Rogan
They can tell. They can analyze. Yeah. Audio recordings and tell whether or not they're real. How do they do that?

How can they tell? Well, that one specifically, I think someone else was like, it was a conversation between two people, and they both were like, I didn't hear that and I didn't say that. So they're like, all right, well, what could have happened? I mean, this. I broke.

I don't. I think they got the guy's computer to find out what he. So he must have had secret recording. And then in that secret recording, he took it and then threw it through AI and had him say a bunch of n words in there. Yeah, there's.

Mike Baker
There's two aspects of this whole thing, right? There's the. There's the detection portion of it. Right? Can you detect, like, something like this is fake.

Right. Whether it's audio, whether it's video, combination of both. And then there's the other side of it, which is trying to stay up with the capabilities of those that are trying to do these identity thefts or whatever you want to call it. And that's sort of the proactive effort to lock down recordings. And there's some interesting work being done in that space where if you film something, say you go to a campaign rally and you film that campaign rally, there are.

Mike Baker
There are a handful of companies out there figuring out that you can essentially watermark it so that it cannot be fucked with and that you can determine if it's an actual recording or not. And that's really, I mean, you think about how much disinformation is roiling around out there now, but detection, it's important, but it's not enough anymore. So where the focus has to be is on ensuring that anything that's being recorded, whether it's a body cam for a police officer, whether it's maybe somebody said a protest, right, and they're a protester or they're on the other side, whatever, to be able to film something and then ensure that it's accurate and true going forward. Right. And that's a really important part because you can't, the detection side of it's important, but it can't stay up with the developments of all the folks out there, all the criminal gangs, criminal elements, and whether it's state sponsored or not, that's out there just with this disinformation effort.

So, I mean, it's a fascinating, it's a fascinating problem that people are getting duped constantly. It's a fascinating problem that is only going to get worse as these new versions of AI get rolled out. It's going to be more and more difficult to detect what's true and what's fake and people can do it on their computer, so easy. Now, this one of Biden, he's walking and he pauses to talk to people. And they cgi'd shit like that.

Joe Rogan
He's pooping himself. I saw that. The one where he kind of stops, he's into that weird pause. He's got a fart. Yeah.

You just see him poop himself and. People are out there saying, look, that's a, that's a mid stage dementia stance, right? That's what they're, that's what they're saying now. They're talking about that. I don't know.

Mike Baker
I don't know about that. But, but look, there's something's going on. There are, if you talk about just, what do they call a face swap, right? So they can take a photo of somebody now, they can take a little snippet of somebody talking now. And there are over 100 apps out there readily available to anybody that can basically do this face swap technology and put somebody else in there.

And criminal elements are doing it all the time. So if I'm a fraudster and I send a note, say to somebody in procurement, I say, hey, you need to send a check for $100,000 to our vendor. Here's the details. Well, they might have protocols in place at the company, says, okay, well, first, this is a large transaction. I better call the finance director.

Right? Or whomever. They've got a way that they can figure out how to spoof all of that. Right? So you could be talking to whom you think is the finance director, but they'll actually, with the face swap technology that's available out there, right.

Mike Baker
It's somebody having a conversation. You think it's the finance director, but they're talking to you. And completely different person. Completely different person gets changed. Their face gets changed exactly like you.

Joe Rogan
So I could use face swap technology that exists, exists today. And with all the recordings that we have of you from this show. Oh, fuck, yeah. Yeah, 100%. We could have you saying a bunch of shit that you never really said.

Mike Baker
And some shit that I probably did say. Probably, yeah, we've said a lot of shit. Yeah, there's some shit. But let me ask you this. When they're doing this, all this face swap technology and all this different stuff, like, what can be done to try to keep ahead of it, to make sure, like, from a national security perspective, like, how do you, how do you keep, how do you know?

Right. There's a couple parts to that. Like, if Netanyahu all of a sudden has some crazy speech, right, and says some wild shit and like, we're going to war, like, hey, is that real? Well, what they. I mean, again, part of it is like, there's a handful of companies out there and they're able to, again, record.

Mike Baker
And instantly, as it does, it embeds information. It embeds specific time, location you can. See in the recording and it's in. There and it's sort of a blockchain system where then on the other side the person can look and go, yeah, this is accurate. This is correct.

But people have to be able to take that. And that's, I guess, where I'm going with this. People have to be able to. To take that step to ensure that what they're watching is accurate. So when people say, well, how do you, how do you prevent this?

How do you keep this from happening? The unsatisfactory answer, just to a large degree, is it comes down to individual people. Right? Everybody has a big fucking responsibility now, more so than before, to understand what they're looking at, listening to, watching, well, we're fucked. We're fucked now.

We're really fucked. I don't want to sound cynical because. There'S just too many people that are concerned about Drake and Kendrick Lamar and don't even know what's going on in Gaza. They're much more concerned with that. We have like a lot of 84 iqrs out there, bouncing around, walking into traffic.

Yeah, 84. What is that average nowadays? Or is that. I don't even know. I think it's 15% of the population is 84 and below.

Right? Is that what it is? Remember that would also be 15% is whatever, 100 plus and above. What's the actual numbers? Look, let's get a pie chart of iqs.

It's a standard deviation thing for. See, already I know that you're above 84 just because you said that. Yeah, you said standard deviation. Wow. Any googles with one hand.

Mike Baker
Yeah, so, like, that's just Carl's being petted. No matter what, almost no matter what thing you're trying to average out, they're almost always end up looking this way. And 15% will always be bro outside of it. What. What percentage?

Joe Rogan
0.1% are 55 and below. Fuck. 2% of the population is 70. Jesus. Between 55 and 72% of the population.

And then 14% of the population is 85. Yeah, but 34% is below 100, so. Most people are between 85 and 115. And me, I'm in that sweet zone between 115 and 130. Oh, yeah.

Mike Baker
Really? That's impressive. I suspect I'm to the left of that somewhere. Yeah. I've never taken an IQ test.

Joe Rogan
I took one at 02:00 in the morning and I wasn't even awake. I wanted to see. And I said I should probably take some alpha brain, take this bitch again and get fired up. But I didn't. I'm happy with my score.

Yeah. I'd be honest. I just wanted to know I wasn't really stupid, you know? Well, God, that's okay. That's interesting.

Mike Baker
So, you know, a lot of people hanging out in the 85 to 115. I don't think. The real issue with all this stuff, though, is emotional intelligence and social intelligence. And there's people that are very brilliant people that I know that suck at those other things and that's held them back in life. So are you smart?

Joe Rogan
Are you really smart? If you. Your emotional intelligence sucks so hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Your ability to read social cues, your ability to form meaningful friendships sucks so hard that, you know, you're isolated and nobody likes to be around you, but you have a high iq, so I'm supposed to think that's good? That seems dumb. I mean, it works for some people. I suppose. It doesn't, though.

That's a recipe for an unhappy life. That's stupid. Yeah, well, I mean, you never know. You get somebody who's. Who you know, they're a brilliant scientist, and they just have very little social life.

Mike Baker
Maybe they're happy in the science lab. I don't know. That's true. But I agree. Empathy is.

I mean, we try to work with our kids all the time on that, right? I mean, you want a well rounded kid. Our job is to raise not average children, but you want them to be well rounded. And empathy, being able to read social cues, read a room, that is super important. My kids are all very kind, and I love that.

Joe Rogan
It makes me very, very happy. They're very kind. They're kind to people. They're kind to their friends. They're kind to people.

They feel bad when someone's not doing well. They're kind. That means a lot. Yeah. I'm very happy.

They got that from us. That is. I think it's. Did they get that from you or did they get that from. Probably more from Misses Rogan.

I'm nice, though, and I work real hard at it, too, because I don't have instincts to be nice. My instincts. My instincts are survival, the fittest. It's very hard to, like, put that aside and just be kind sometimes, but it always feels better when I do. It is.

Mike Baker
You know what? And that's how kids learn to do it. Right. I mean, people always ask with parenting, the kids are watching from the time they're nuggets, right, and they absorb shit. And, you know, if you want your kid to be empathetic, you've got to demonstrate that.

You got to demonstrate kindness. You got to demonstrate consideration. Our boys. My daughter's great. My daughter is very good.

And our boys are boys, and they're aggressive and competitive and all that, but I think ours probably follow the traditional sort of multi kid path, right? So, like, the oldest boy is empathetic, right. And kind and considerate. Youngest boy is probably a savage. Youngest.

Youngest boys, he's like the fucking mayor of party town. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Gotta deal with the older brothers. Exactly.

Joe Rogan
Grow up quicker. Yeah. And the middle boy, he's better at things, too. Yeah. Actually, you know what?

Mike Baker
He's. He's, as my wife says, who's the greatest person I know? She. She calls him the sleeper, right. Because he kind of comes in under the radar.

You don't expect him to be great at something, and then he is, right, because he's been watching and he's pissed off and he wants to be better than his brothers, right? And then the middle boy is just like. He's just like fuck you. Get out of my way. You know, he's the basketball player.

He's down in his own Img. He's into his own thing. And. And he's. He's a great kid, but he's just like, this is what I'm going to do.

I don't know what you're doing or what you're doing, but here's. Here's me. He's got a focus. Yeah. That's because there's a lot of people around.

Joe Rogan
He realized he can't concentrate on other people being happy. Got to do what he wants. That's right. So it is. I mean, it's.

Mike Baker
And I think that's a dynamic, right? It is. And you think about it and you think about. They all grow up and people talk about this all the time, so it's nothing new. But, you know, kids grow up in the same environment, right?

And then they end up being so uniquely different in space. They're different out of the box. And, boy, genetics plays a factor. My God. Plays a factor.

Joe Rogan
And you realize that when you see your kids grow up and you see traits that, like, there is no fucking way this is getting to you any way other than genetics. There's no way. Yeah. Cause, I mean, at a certain point, yeah, they start to take some influence from their friends, you know, and they. Oh, yeah.

Mike Baker
But by then, hopefully, you've kind of already set their. Whatever, their moral compass. Right. And they know what they're supposed to do. Maybe they stray off that path occasionally.

Right. But for the most part, no, they. I think you've got to, you've got to set the parameters. You got to set the course. Kids, little, little kids want to know what the hell's expected of them.

Joe Rogan
I'll tell you one thing. Reports from the front lines of kids in high school today that woke shit's out the window. That word retard comes flying in these kids mouths. They're. They're bringing that back strong.

They are bringing that back strong. I'll tell you, that woke thing, it got into college, and then the high school kids, the ones coming up now, they are rejecting it. I 100% agree with you. And I know that because our youngest, mugsy, he's like, what, twelve years old now? And so he's in 7th grade and he was in the complete blast zone of woke, right?

Mike Baker
And like, the oldest one, who's 16, he kind of had some of it. The middle one, again, didn't care. He was like, fuck you. You don't play ball. So I'm not paying attention to you.

But the youngest one was in a complete fire zone of this woke culture. And you'll never meet a more conservative, sexist kid in your life. Cause he's just like, he'll come back and he'll tell us some stories from his school, which is a great school, but it's pretty woke. It's pretty liberal, right? You got kids walking around as furries.

You got a lot of multicolored hair. You got all sorts of things going on there. And he'll come back and tell us stories, and he's just like, I just don't understand what the hell's happened. Because he works hard at sport. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
That's what you get from a lot of people that work hard at sports. People that value hard work, and people that value hard work tend to be more conservative and less inclined to indulge people on their mental illness, you know? Oh, you're a cat. No, you're not. You have cat ears on.

They don't even look like a cat. You don't even have a good costume on. Like, you're not tricking people in the dark. Yeah, okay. Shut the fuck up.

You're not a cat. Yeah. You don't. Yeah. No.

You're just twelve and really confused. And I get it. Yeah. He came home one day and he said. He said some girl turned around dressed as a cat and kicked him, right.

Mike Baker
Because she thought he had pulled her tail. And then apparently she hissed, Adam. And walked away. And he was like, I didn't fucking pull her down. Oh, my God.

I don't want anything to do with her. Yeah. She hissed at him. Jesus Christ. This is so indulgent.

Joe Rogan
That's so crazy. You know what's interesting is, like, Tucker Carlson had a very good point when he talked about the difference between different dysphorias. Like body dysphoria for, like, anorexia versus gender dysphoria. And he said, when a child has body dysphoria and they think they're fat, you don't tell them, oh, yeah, you are fat. No, you help them.

You say, no, you're not fat. This is just a mental disorder. But when someone says, I'm a boy, you say, oh, you are a boy. You don't say, sweetie, your name is Dorothy. Yeah.

Mike Baker
Shall we go shopping for dresses? Dorothy? Why did I come up with Dorothy? Dorothy. Are people still naming the kid Dorothy?

I don't think. I think. No, bring it back. I think Dorothy. Carol.

Nobody names their kids Carol. Beautiful name. Those are beautiful names. Dot that was. The nickname for Dorothy was Dot.

I know that because I know a Dorothy. That's right. She goes by dot. That's right. Yeah.

People are like, what the fuck? How bizarre, Dot. God, how bizarre. Yeah, that's a weird one. So.

But you're right. It's. It's the indulgence. It's. And again, look, everybody, fine, do what you want to do.

I don't need to go along with it. I don't need to celebrate it. I don't need to, you know, and that's. But that's what's expected. It went past, like, maybe I'm a little bit different.

I'm going to go through a phase in life now. It's like I'm going through a phase. And you better fucking well accept it. It's also celebrated. There's, like, a value, a social value to having anxiety.

Joe Rogan
There's a social value to what you will call childhood trauma, you know, or social value to, like, everybody has PTSD from, like, it could be from, like, high school, it could be, like, from minor stuff, but it's. It's looked at as, oh, we have to be, you know, we have to be considerate of someone's past. Everybody's got trauma. Everybody. Yeah.

That's part of life. But the answer is not to overindulge every single aspect of everyone's ideas so that you do let a kid wear a fucking tail and ears and run around the high school and be a freak, because, like, that's not good either. Yeah. That's not healthy. Well, it's just crazy.

Mike Baker
It's not healthy. And it's. And it's confusing for those kids, too. Right. I mean, I honestly believe if you.

If you address it properly, right, and you. And you deal with it, it's long term better health for that individual. Right. Which is what you want, right? You want.

Everybody wants that, but we've got. I don't know if you want to go to a. Once you're a grown adult and you got your own job and you pay for your own apartment, you want to go to a furry convention. God bless you. God bless you.

I just don't think you should be. Able to wear a fucking tail in school and hiss at people. That just seems. That seems silly. Yeah, it seems silly.

Joe Rogan
Also, my friend's son goes to a school where you can't wear hats, so you can't wear hats in class, but kids can wear, like, fucking duck ears or. Ducks don't have ears. Don't they? How do they hear? They have they're like.

They don't stick out. Okay. Absolutely. I was coming up with a stupid. Animal for some reason.

Duck. That's how you know I'm not invested in this idea. I think a duck with ears would be a good looking duck. You got fucking dog ears or cat ears or whatever the fuck you think you are, a raccoon? Stop.

Mike Baker
Our boys schools wear hats. Either our boys schools. Yeah, they can't wear hats, but they can wear these stupid fucking ears, is my point. Yeah. It's like a headband, I guess, or.

You know, this time of year is a great time of year. It's a great time of year. Because speaking of hats and everything, is it. This time of year is crew cut flat top season. So the youngest one, Mugsy, went ahead the other day and got himself a buzz cut.

It's nice. There is. We used to go, all my brothers and I, we knew it was. Summer was approaching when my dad would say, okay, here we go. And they.

We had the home clipper kit, right? And there was something great about that flat top, that crew cut, right? And so anyway, he's got his. He's got his crew cut going on. And I suspect he's the only one in this entire school that's got this.

And it's a good look for him. Right. And it also, you know, it, again, I think there's so much happening in the school in terms of the way kids are. What's the word I'm looking for? Coddled.

Right. That, you know, I feel proud about Mugsy. Cause he comes walking into school and there's no mistaking, like, this kid is not. This kid is not angsty. He's not worried about anything, right?

Mike Baker
He's. He's got the crew cut going on. Yeah. This is a very unique challenge for these kids to get through this bullshit and come out on the other end understanding that no one's coming to save you. You're responsible for yourself in life, and you gotta get after it.

Joe Rogan
You gotta actually do something. If you want a successful, happy life, you have to be engaged in some sort of a pursuit, something that you enjoy. Whatever the fuck it is. Find it. Go for it.

Hard work is important. The world really does operate on a meritocracy, except in corrupt situations. But it's also battlefield, right. For these kids, it's a minefield. It's probably a better way to put it.

Minefield. So you've got. Yes. You got the kids. You want them to do all those things, right?

Mike Baker
Play sports, be involved in hobbies, activities, whatever it is, stay busy, focus on your grades, be balanced, be nice to people. But they're walking through this minefield every day. There's a potential for them to upset somebody who's looking to be upset. And I'm talking about 1213, 1415 year old kids who are looking to be insulted and very quickly use the system that's been put in place which caters to them. Right.

And so it is, you know, and, you know, my boys, you know, have run afoul of that system a couple of times for, you know, it's lunacy. Maybe speaking their mind, maybe not saying. Calling someone a them, not saying addressing someone as a plural. Yeah. One of my kids went with a they them, went to school with a they them.

Joe Rogan
And this girl wore fucking makeup. She wore makeup and dresses, but she said she was non binary and she would get upset if someone didn't call her a they or them. How old at the time? 1112. God, 1212, I guess, yeah.

What the fuck, man? Were you worried? Were you worried about that sort of thing when you were eleven years old? I didn't even know it was a thing. I don't think I realized it was a thing until I was 50.

Mike Baker
Yeah. I never heard a non binary. I mean, I would imagine that there are people that are asexual. They're not interested in physical affection. They're probably on the spectrum.

Joe Rogan
God bless you. But is that what, is that what non binary means? No, but that's like asexual. Asexual, I get. Yeah, yeah.

But when you say you're not a boy or a girl, okay, if you were a puppy and I wanted a boy puppy or a girl puppy, which one would you be? I know you're not a puppy. Yeah. You know, like, this is the thing with the supreme Court justice with Ketanji Brown. Jackson.

Jackson, yeah. Who said she's not a biologist. They asked her, what is a woman? She said, I'm not a biologist. Right, but you're a woman, so how about take a shot at it?

Yeah. Like, if I brought you a puppy, how do you know if it's a boy dog or a girl dog? And can we use that same judgment for humans? Is that possible? Isn't it true in the majority of cases that a woman has ovaries and a vagina and they can have babies?

For the most part, yeah. Yeah. For the most part, yeah. Well, just try to watch people, like, just lose their minds. Try asking somebody like that, you know, is there a difference, imagine between a man and a woman?

Joe Rogan
To a supreme Court's justice 20 years ago. Imagine if Ruth Bader Ginsburg 20 years ago, somebody asked her, she would go, shut the fuck up with these stupid questions. I'm here on the goddamn Supreme Court to get shit done, okay? I'm not here to hear. What did you ask me?

What a woman is? Why don't you ask me what paint is now? Ask me what tires are now. How about a bunch of other shit? What's a pencil?

Shut the fuck up. But it's university administrators. It's anybody in a position of leadership who's afraid of getting bullied, right? And so that nobody wants to state the obvious, we went through the whole pandemic with one side screaming, believe the science. Right?

Mike Baker
And then now they're like, well, no, it depends on the context of whether a man and a woman are different. You're thinking, look, you can, again, do whatever you want to do, but if you're a girl but you identify as a boy, then you're a girl identifying as a boy and vice versa, right? That doesn't seem complicated to me. If you want us to trust the science, you got to make the science trustworthy. You can't leave the science in the hand of corporations to stand to profit if the science reflects one thing or the other.

Joe Rogan
You can't do that because they do it. They've done it forever. They've been fined for it. You know they do it. You know, it's standard practice.

You know that they run multiple tests and multiple studies and they'll throw out the ones that don't show any positive results and they finagle the studies to show some kind of fagaze y positive thing and then they'll start prescribing it to people and they do it for money. You know they do it for money. Everybody knows they do it for money. So shut the fuck up about this science thing until you could sort the science out, until you know the science. Unless you have a third party non biased, where there's not a revolving door between the government organization and the pharmaceutical drug companies, which we know there is, and we know that they know there is.

So we know that they know where the fucking bread is buttered and they know how to get things through. And then, lookie do, he works for Moderna now. Lookie doo. Eli Lilly. Oh, my God, lookie.

Dolaxo. Smith. Klein just hired them. You know, I mean, look, I'm not. Everybody should make money.

I'm glad pharmaceutical drug companies exist. They make awesome stuff, right? But you gotta be honest. And don't hit me with that trust the science shit. If you haven't made the science trustworthy, stop.

Yeah. And it also can't be a moving line. Right. Either you do or you don't. Right.

Mike Baker
And it can't be based on where you fall politically. Right. Which seems to be how it works. Right. And so 100%, whenever it's.

Yeah, yeah. We trust some science, just not chromosomes.

Yeah. It's very subjective. Very subjective. Very fascist. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
I wanted to ask you this before I forget. Yeah. When you were working for the agency, did you guys. I know that there is a program where they use special effects makeup to change someone's appearance. Have you ever seen that in person?

Mike Baker
Oh, yes. How does it look? Yeah, it. Well, it gets better all the time. So can I go to a concert?

Joe Rogan
Like, could I sneak into. Sneak into a concert with a rubber nose? Yeah. Give me a nice blonde wig. Yeah.

Mike Baker
That's what we used to do. We hand out rubber noses and googly eyes. Yeah. Then nobody would see us coming. Like Clark Kent.

Yeah. No. We have a disguise unit at the agency, and I'm super proud of them. And I was the benefit of their expertise on numerous occasions, because you might guess. I mean, I spent almost all my time with the agency overseas in operations, and there's some places where I don't blend right in.

Mike Baker
I know. So they blamed you, just like on team America. World police, remember? Yes. One of the greatest.

Hans bricks. Hans Briggs. How good is that movie? That's a greatest movie. Parker and Matt Stone are the fucking best.

Oh, my God. When they did the puppet. Matt Stone, Trey Parker, that. I switched their names. Yeah, yeah.

The puppet sex scene, when they thought, okay, a few minutes of this, it's making people uncomfortable. Let's keep going with it. Well, you know, the original. Far longer. Yeah, the original, she poops on his chest, or he poops on her chest and she pees on him.

Joe Rogan
Or he pees on her. God. This is disguise.

Oh, shit. Come on, Gary, act. You have the power.

Mike Baker
Bak dirk, Dirk. Allah.

Joe Rogan
Durkha durka. Muhammad Jihad, hakasherpa, sherpa baccalaureate. Man, does this take me. This takes me back. Oh, he's an actor, bro.

God, it's so good. He saved them, being an actor. One of the greatest. Yes. That really.

Mike Baker
That really takes me back to the operational days, too. Such an amazing movie. Yeah. The disguise unit is fantastic. And.

Joe Rogan
Okay, so. Yeah, so this is from the disguise. Yeah, she was there. She was, you know, senior officer there. Did you ever.

Were you ever talking to someone, you know, I think this motherfucker's wearing a disguise. No, but I've talked to people wearing disguises. I've had the full overhead mask. Look how good that is with sunglasses on. With sunglasses on.

That's crazy. I never did wear the monkey outfit. We didn't do that one, but look. How good that looks. Yeah.

That's insane. And here's the thing about this. Is it? Because what they did was they went to Hollywood. And there's been this liaison for years, years and years between the agency and Hollywood when it comes to special effects, when it comes to makeup, and again, and it's horses for courses.

Mike Baker
So sometimes you need a light disguise, right? I'm not giving away any secrets. This is stuff is all out there. And so, you know, you get a light disguise. It's for a brief cover, for action.

You know, there's not. You're not going to be engaged in the. So what would be a light disguise? You know, like a rubber nose. It could be like a wig.

It could be facial hair. Change of glasses. Could be just a change of hair color. In reality, if you're out on the street, I know, I'll probably disappear down a rabbit hole. And people would be like, oh, this is fucking boring.

But if you're out on the street and you're in a surveillance exercise, say, right, and you're covering a target, then all you got to do is you're just talking about switching up your look a little bit. It could be a hat, right? It could be a coat. It could be a backpack, whatever you're doing. So it doesn't have to be much.

And then you got the full other side of the spectrum, which could be a full overhead mask, right? Which is. That's a process, right? You gotta. I mean, it's just like with Hollywood.

I mean, there's no difference. And the key is, when you're out on the street and you're in disguise, nobody is thinking that person's in disguise, right? So it's dependent upon your bearing. I've seen people in disguise who don't pull it off well, right. Because they.

They're worried, like, oh, I'm in disguise. People are thinking, I'm in disguise. Nobody gives a shit. Everybody's worried about their own little bubble out there. So it's your body movements and your body language.

It's your bearing. How do you comport yourself? How do you carry yourself? Are you confident in it? And also, do you understand that the vast majority, majority of people out there, no matter where you are, right.

A fourth world country, us, wherever, they're not thinking about it. And I've had extended conversations with people in disguise where, you know, they don't give a fuck. They don't know. And it is remarkable how good they are at this. But that unit is fantastic.

Joe Rogan
Did it give you, like, a rubber muscle suit ever? No, I never got a fat suit. No. But I know one of the guys I worked with, he got a fat suit. Really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Changed his weight. Because that's also one of those things where, you know, you're looking to. Right. I mean, you're just looking to alter your profile, and weight is a big part of it.

Joe Rogan
And what does the fat suit entail? Is it like a skin one where it looks real, or. Mostly it's under your clothes. Right. And so it's like it's padding, basically, but it's quick.

Mike Baker
You have to be able to do this quickly. Look, I've been on the streets of, you know, capital cities around the world where I'm on a motorcycle, and, you know, I've got. I got a helmet on. That's a pretty good disguise. But you got to get off that motorcycle at some point and walk the streets or go somewhere, whatever.

And so you've got to be able to do these things quickly. Right. Or you're so, again, not giving away any sources or methods, but I will say the disguise unit and misses Mendez there, who they just showed briefly. She ran that operation to a great person and a great. A great part of the agency.

And it is. But it is acting. There's no different. So this is what I was going to get to. Did they teach you how to walk casual?

Joe Rogan
They teach you what to see in someone that's tense? Well, yeah, I mean, you spend a lot of time.

Yeah. Yeah, you do. That's a good way to put it, I guess. You spend a lot of time observing people. Right.

Mike Baker
And understanding. And part of that is you're trying to get a sense of. If you're trying to get a sense of whether they're lying, you're watching for certain things. You're watching for their body movement and the way they're behaving and the things that they're saying. A lot of times, they're just.

They're. They're not consistent with what they're saying. So that's not necessarily watching their movements. But a lot of times, if you're trying to get on side with somebody, if I'm trying to develop a relationship with the deputy foreign minister of whatever from some country, because they've got inside information on their nuke program, then I'll spend a lot of time thinking about and watching and observing that person, and eventually I'm mirroring that person's activities. Right.

You know, if you're sitting across from somebody and they lean on the desk, right. And they start talking to you, or they move in a little bit closer, well, I'm gonna do the same thing and I'm gonna come in. They don't know it, they don't understand it, but it makes them more comfortable. Right. So if you start mirroring their actions, their activities, that's just one of those things.

It's a small part of it, but it's. Somebody told me that when you see people, like, leaning against a wall, that we see people in foreign countries leaning against a wall. Nine times out of ten, they're american. Like with leaning, like one shoulder against the wall. He said it's a very american thing to do, like lean against doorways with one shoulder.

Joe Rogan
Lean against a wall with one shoulder. Yeah. I wouldn't, I wouldn't make a lot of book on that. I mean, because, you know, it's a western thing, more than just an american thing. I've seen, you know, I'd spent a long time in Europe and, you know, Italians will lean against the wall, Spaniards are leaning against the wall, but it is a western thing.

Mike Baker
So, you know, if you're walking the streets of Vladivostok or wherever, then you have to be aware of it. Also little things like how you eat, right? How do you hold your fork and knife? I mean, it could be, it could be anything that could, you know, show out as a certain cultural handle. So this is the way that different people hold their fork.

Well, you know, if you hold your, like, if you hold your knife here and you hold your fork here, right, and you just keep eating with this hand, you don't switch the fork over to your dominant hand. Right. That's an interesting take. And, I mean, like, if you're over in the UK, you see it all the time, right? People just kind of eating like this, right?

Pushing. Pushing their food onto their fork. 15 things that stand out. Americans are known for leaning on things while standing still. Aha.

Aha. There's a habit the CIA even trains. Aha. CIA trains Americans to unlearn when trained to be a spy. Don't worry, we can still stand out on our own 2ft.

Joe Rogan
Americans are always eating on the go. One person living in Europe was asked if Americ, if they were american because they were eating a bagel while walking. Hey, we gotta fuel up for all that small talk. Americans are known for being loud and friendly, and our accents are a dead giveaway. Well, that's that.

Duh. Okay. Americans love small talk and are super friendly. Okay. Americans are known for wanting ice in their water, a habit that might seem as strange in countries where ice is not commonly consumed.

Joe Rogan
Americans often greet people with, hey, how are you? The greeting may be seen as too friendly or even mocking. In some cultures, Americans are known for leaving tips. Are they okay? Yeah.

Yeah. That's true. Americans have a reputation for being confident, okay. Even if you walk in the wrong direction. Americans are known for enjoying sweet treats for breakfast, a habit that may be seen as strange in other cultures, where breakfast is typically a savory meal.

Joe Rogan
Americans are often seen as being obsessed with their appearance and constantly checking their appearance in mirrors. It's cause we're the shit. Americans are known for wearing tactical sunglasses, a style that we've seen is unusual in other countries. Okay. Americans are known for saying y'all.

Mike Baker
Oh, gosh. Americans are known for their love of baseball caps, especially when worn backwards. Americans in love. For the love of saying the US or America. When asked if they're from, even though these terms refer to the entire country, Americans are known for their friendly grins and making eye taunt.

Joe Rogan
Okay. Yeah. Basically just the lean against the wall thing. That seems odd. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Baker
That's interesting. But I. Yeah, I've seen a lot of leaners in my time, so. But, yeah, those. All those things it's good to be aware of.

But you were saying with the fork. And knife thing that the Europeans keep a fork in one hand and knife or other, and they don't switch hands. Yeah. What? People switch hands.

I've seen that a lot here in the states where people like, they'll eat, you'll cut and you put down, you'll eat. And maybe it's just because I hang around with a lot of posh people. I don't know. Yeah, they seem like bitches. They'll sound like.

That's a big. I'm not saying they're not. Your left hand sucks so hard that you have to swap out. Swap out? Yeah.

Joe Rogan
You're scared of the fort. Considered very left. I think it's considered very etiquette. Also, you're a bitch for not being able to cut your food with your left hand, too. I know both those things.

You make you a bit. It's just a lot easier if you also. If you just kind of push. You're pushing around right there like that. And.

Mike Baker
But then again, you know, you could do it. If you want to eat quick, you got a two hand thing. So John's magazine here that says that that's an american style, apparently, to hold the fork in your dominant hand and switch. So, yeah, that's the bitches of America. So let's say for a steak, for instance.

Oh, look, there's even pictures. There's pictures to explain this to us. How you cut to a zig zag style or something. So fork goes back and forth. Now let's take a closer look at the details.

Joe Rogan
This is ridiculous. If people are still looking. Actually, that guy holding it like a dagger looks like my boy's eating. I bet that dude's very boring in real life. Or a serial killer.

Mike Baker
Yeah, or an etiquette teacher. Yeah, either one. So. But the disguise thing is fascinating, and I've been, like I said, I mean, sometimes it can be very simple. You slap on.

I know it sounds silly, but you slap on a fake mustache, but you're just changing your profile quickly. Right. And so it doesn't. I will say there were times when you'd get a disguise kit and it would have a baseball cap in it. You'd go, I don't.

I don't think so. I think because we're overseas and probably not a baseball cap. So who's putting together these disguise kits for you? It's. I mean, the.

The outfit again, it's. It's the disguise unit. And the disguise unit isn't aware of cultural differences. Oh, no, they are. But I'm just saying, in the old days, I'm fairly old, but in the old days, they'd throw in a ball cap, and you think, right, okay, well, yeah, so.

But, yeah, hey, what do I know? So is there any video of people wearing these disguises where we could see what they look like? I found another video. I was trying to. I want to see what it looks like.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, let's see how, because I saw one on Instagram, but I don't know. If it's real wired. Same lady, I think, here she transforms. Probably the reporter. Yeah, just imagine again.

And. What are you doing? You're so, here's this lady, right? They gave her a mustache. They gave her some wacky hair.

Joe Rogan
Wow. That's incredible.

I don't know. She'd trick me. No. What's going on? That one's not.

Mike Baker
That one's not the best one. It's not the best, but that's then that's also. Then they brought up the fork and knife in the video. Boy, they love that fork and knife. Holding a cigarette comes up in the.

Joe Rogan
Video and how you hold a cigarette. Yeah, it's very quick here. They just show, like. Like, the way you either between the fingers forward like that. Is that american pinching it?

And who pinches it? I don't know. I've seen people here pinch it, so I don't. Yeah. Then it shows a guy doing a very quick thing.

Like, people that pinch it here, they probably like european music. So I goes from the suit to just, like, taking it off, putting on a hat, and now he's in disguise. Seeing it can be that simple. Right? I mean, it's.

Mike Baker
And particularly if you're in surveillance or, you know. Or if you're doing, you know, counter surveillance, you got to be aware of these things. Did you see that? I had a guest on the podcast that came with my friend Josh Dubin works with criminal reform and getting innocent people out of jail. So we had this guest that came on, and then after he was on the show, wound up killing somebody, cut some dude's head off, and.

Joe Rogan
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And the unfortunate surveillance footage where he tried to wear a blonde wig and walk around. Yeah. But he didn't realize. I think he didn't realize, like, how good modern surveillance cameras are.

It was, like, crystal clear that this dude was wearing a fucking wig. God. Yeah, that was. Yeah, it's a hell of a story. Crazy story.

I was trying to explain that to my daughter last night. This is what happened. God. Yeah. That's interesting.

Mike Baker
You know that video that you just showed, because there's been some talk about the protests on campus. Right. And the fact that all these. All these outside agitators, activists, and then the students, the actual students, the ones that are actually affiliated with university, most of them wearing masks. Right, right.

And, you know, part of it is. I don't know. It's. They have. Mentally ill.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, they're mentally ill. It's. I photograph people every time I see them. I photograph one today. Yeah.

Saw somebody walking outside with a mask on. The dumb kind to the surgical blue, stupid one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That doesn't do a goddamn thing.

Mike Baker
But this was, I think, was. Was a solidarity thing. They're all wearing masks. And part of it was also, I think they were thinking they couldn't be identified. And there's a lot of talk about retinal scanning.

Right. So how much of the face do you need in order to identify people? Right. And it's not much. Right.

Mike Baker
Retinal scanning. It's not 100% accurate. So there's other things you have to do. So would you be able to retinal scan that lady with that crazy outfit on? Yeah, just retinal scanner.

Joe Rogan
And then none of that shit would work. The mustache, which is. Which is. And that's. Yeah, that's a great point on your face for nothing.

Mike Baker
And that shit is tough to take off, too. It's not good. So. Yeah, and that's. That's a.

It's a really good point because now it's made the life of. Of somebody who's working in operations a lot tougher. Right. Because of the ability of. And it's got to be a country where you're operating, where they've got the resources and the technology, but it makes it a shit ton tougher to get away with things.

Right. And as does the ability for communications intercepts and tracking of phones and all the other things. So, you know, while, you know, it's always the same story. Right. Technology's got an upside and a downside.

Mike Baker
But the face recognition, the retinal scanning, it's creating all sorts of problems from an operational perspective, overseas. And here, of course, the problem is people are talking about civil liberties and invasion of privacy. So you've got some students out there and they're covered, and next thing you know, they're identified. Right now, they're suspended and, you know, fine. You know, not only the nuts, some of them aren't getting to graduate.

Joe Rogan
This one girl was watching this video. They were. They just told her she couldn't graduate. Cause she got arrested. Well, you know, what.

Mike Baker
What do they say? You play stupid games. Yeah. You win stupid prizes. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
So they all think they're doing something great. They think they're gonna fix it. It's. It's, you know, a lot of misplaced energy. With tents?

Mike Baker
With tents. Yeah, and with matching tents. And that's the part. Look, I. Again, you know, hey, God bless the actual students who are out there feeling like they're being a part of something.

I get that. They're young people. Most of them are gormless. Right. They're just saying, whatever.

This is their moment to shine. So they're excited. And most of them couldn't find Gaza on a map of Gaza. So I think that's one side of it, and I can't. Whatever.

But it's the coordination of it all by the various outside groups and the activists and the funding of it and the potential for that funding and the coordination to tie back to groups like Hamas or Hezbollah, which basically means you're tying back to the iranian regime, right? Because that's the only reason those groups exist. But nobody seems curious about that because a lot of the media wanted to portray this as just like kids being kids. Oh, look at it. This is their moment to shine as student activists.

And isn't it wonderful? And it's their Vietnam protests and bullshit. Some of it. Okay, fine. So it's layered, right?

So some of that's true. You got those kids that are just doing that. But there's the incuriosity of the media to say, well, what the hell's behind this, right? And what groups is it? You know, students for justice and power?

Palestine is it, you know, US campaign for Palestinian rights, Sami Dune, right? Which has connections backed at Hamas. There's the education for whatever, just peace in the Middle east. There's groups that have been actively engaging in this. And that's why you get the coordination of all of this, right.

It's that. But nobody asks, okay, what's behind it? Just students active. No, it's not. It's a coordinated effort.

Mike Baker
And then you look at those groups who are always active in this realm and always looking to have organizations disinvest from Israel or to promote causes that are anti israeli. And then you say, okay, well, who's funding it? So you look at these groups and you say, okay, where's the money coming from? And the money's always coming from the same places. The Tides center, which is part of the Tides Network, which gets significant funding, no surprise, from Soroshas Open Society foundation.

You get Westchester peoples, whatever action coalition. So you get these groups and you get the legal support. So all these people, the activists who are getting arrested, they can turn to Palestine legal, which provides legal support to the activists and the ngO's that are engaged in all this. Again, theyre getting their money from charities. A lot of times the charities dont know their putting money into these groups, right?

It goes into the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, right? And the Rockefeller Brothers Fund provides money to these ngo's, you know, like justice for, you know, Palestine or whatever. And then, and Rockefeller brothers gets, you know, funding from Soros Open Society foundation as well. That guy, right? Well, yeah.

And now his kid is even more of an activist than George is, right? Of course his kid is. Yeah, kid inherited it. Kid inherited it make up for the. Fact that he inherited it by being extra woke.

Yeah. And he is. And extra guilty having all those billions. You should feel guilty. Yeah, exactly.

Mike Baker
How can you live with yourself? Young Soros what you're talking about, though, is a very important point, that this is not organic. And this is what I was going to get to earlier when I was talking about social media. How much do you think foreign governments have an influence on certain trends and certain things that people are talking and promoting and pushing and being a part of on social media? Because I think it's a, I think it's a big factor.

Joe Rogan
I think it's a big factor with a lot of things. And I think it's a big factor with all this, the most insane woke shit, I think they push it as far as they can so that the stuff that's not as insane, that was insane just a couple of years ago, seems less insane now. It seems more palatable. And then they just keep moving the goalposts. I think you can do that through social media with kids.

You can kind of engineer what kids accept. Oh, 100%. And the answer is, how much do they do? They do a tremendous amount, right? Look, the iranian regime, nobody's happier with these protests on campuses than the iranian regime.

Mike Baker
And they've even come out, the foreign minister, Khamenei himself, right, the Ayatollah, came out on his official x page, who knew? And praises the protesters. And they talk about the oppression and the violent tactics of the police, right, and suppressing protests, which is crazy when you think about what the iranian regime has done to anybody who dares protest inside Iran. They executed a world champion wrestler over there constantly, right? And they're trampling of all rights, not just women's rights, everybody's rights.

So it's bullshit. But people, you know, I don't know, people buy it. They don't have a peripheral understanding of the workings, the inner workings of all this stuff. But then the Russians and the Chinese, they're all taking advantage of this as well, right? Chinese bots have been out there trolling around and promoting the chaos, right?

If you were to switch on television, right, in Moscow or in Tehran or in Beijing, you'll get a lot of coverage of these campus protests, right? This is ideal for them. It's exactly what they want. And it feeds into their larger narrative of trying to discredit democracy and say what a losing system it is, right? Capitalism.

And so, you know, but again, people are incurious, they're busy, they're trying to just do their lives, whatever. They're not taking the time to sit and think, where am I getting my information from? What's the validity of this information? And if they don't do that. Then to your earlier point, yeah, we're fucked because it comes down to individual responsibility.

You got to focus on where your information is coming from. And, you know, right now, you know, you could argue, I mean, that whether it's the face swapping techniques, whether it's AI that can mimic, and whether it's for criminal purposes or whether it's for state sponsored efforts to try to put the knife in. Into the american system or the west, you know, we areits democratized misinformation. Right. It's made it so that everybody can engage in it.

Not just state sponsors, but everybody. Because all those apps are out there, all the abilities out there, and you've got an incurious public for the most part, that doesn't take the time. And an uninformed public, most of them are not even aware that there's foreign elements that have an influence on our culture. Yeah. Which is.

Which is shocking, if you think about it, right? It's shocking. But so few people are aware of anything other than what's going on in their own life and what's going on at work. Well, life is messy and it's tough, and you're trying to raise kids and, you know, you're trying to put food on the table. You don't have time.

And I talked to some of my. Friends about this stuff, and their eyes glaze over. Yeah. They don't even want to. Yeah, I'm busy, bro.

Yeah. But you know what it does. I mean, look at. Look at the state of. Look how dysfunctional we are right now.

Right? I mean, this is. This is remarkable. You know, at times. And again, everybody wants to think it's always the worst time.

Right? It's not the worst time. Right? We've had worst time. Civil war, I think, was pretty bad, you know, so we've had more dysfunction, I suppose, at times, but the technology speeds it along.

Right. And we just have more people. So the potential for more of a shit show is there. But that is ultimately when people always talk about, well, how do you. How do.

Mike Baker
You can't just use detection. You can't be on the defensive all the time trying to identify, okay, that's fake. That's fake, that's fake. You got to rely on people to say, you know what? I'm not going to buy everything I read.

I'm going to pay attention, and I'm going to think about it a little bit, and I'm going to chill the fuck out. But it's not in human nature, apparently. Right now. So, yeah, we've got a problem. And those nations, particularly Iran, China, and Russia, are having a field day right now.

Right. We are making it very easy for them. And think about it. We got the fucking election coming up in November. Yeah.

So think about what that means in terms of disinformation. And it's. Yeah, it's. It's remarkable. I.

We live in a very interesting time. I think we're gonna be fine. It's a very resilient environment, I suppose, but. So I try to be positive, but. It'S fraught with peril.

Yeah. Well, let me ask you this from a perspective of someone kind of understands all these different influences and all the things that are happening in these universities, what can be done to sort of, like, unwind some of this fuckery, if anything, at this point? I mean, are we just gonna operate from here on out with this understanding that our kids get indoctrinated to this preposterous, ridiculous way of thinking where they're taught these marxist leninist ideas as if they make any fucking sense and that they've ever worked anywhere, and if they don't always lead to totalitarian, authoritative governments that take over and enforce all these socialist policies, which is a fucking nightmare that happens in every single regime when they go, socialism. Yeah. So how.

Joe Rogan
What can be done to sort of, like, unwind some of this bullshit in colleges and balance it out a little bit? Like, there's nothing wrong with having ridiculous ideas as long as those ridiculous ideas can be challenged. But if you're the only one that gets to talk and you just indoctrinate these kids, and no one comes along and says, hey, you've never even functioned in the fucking real world like this shit that you're teaching these kids, unless they go into academia, they're fucked. Or you're going to ruin corporations with this ideology. Because it just.

It doesn't jive with capitalism. It doesn't jive with. And, oh, yeah, we got to tear capitalism down. Okay, well, then what, you fucking idiots? Then no one has any incentive to get anything done.

Well, that's great for you because you've never done anything. So you think all these people that did things, even if you don't agree with them, even if it's Bill Gates, he still built that fucking company. That's his. He did it. Do you want to be that guy?

Then go do what he did. If you don't like what he did, then you can talk about it. You can protest about the idea that everyone should have to give all their money away. And there should be no billionaires. There should be no capitalism.

And all the money goes into. And then who's in charge? And who gets to tell you what you can do and not do? Who gets to tell you you can't have your money anymore? Who gets to take your house away because it's too big?

Shut the fuck up. This is, like, so short sighted and so stupid that it's so hard for me to believe that it's being taught in universities. Right. Or the idea. Now, what they're saying is you got a big house, you got a couple extra rooms.

Mike Baker
You know what you should do? Yeah. Taking these fucking migrants. Take in murderers. Yeah.

That. We haven't. We haven't bothered. That guy with a 13 tattooed on his forehead. Bring him in.

Mike Baker
Yeah, he's fine. He's a nice guy. He's trying to clean his life up. That's why he walked here. Yeah.

And the border is fine. Don't worry about it. It's all good. It's fine. It's only like 20% chinese nationals that are of military age.

No. The staggering number of Chinese have come across the border in the past six months. It's wild. Yeah, it is. It is fascinating.

Because you think, what accounts for that increase? They want to learn MMA. Yeah. These are the best gyms. A lot of even the chinese champions to come over here to train.

Really? Yeah. So maybe that accounts for, what, 20,000 of these? No, 26,030 of them. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
30 of those guys are future MMA stars, future UFC stars. But, I mean, you look at the universities and think, yeah, university is supposed to be a place where you exchange ideas. So that's great. You want to talk about it. You want to have classes in Marxism or whatever, you want to talk.

Mike Baker
That's great. But you're right. You need to have that discourse. You need to be, you know, again, I keep reverting back to examples of the, you know, real world. And from my own experience, my daughter went to undergrad and grad school, and she kept her mouth shut for most of that time.

Right. Six years. Because she always knew, as she said, there was no upside to her arguing in class, you know, and she's a centrist. Right? She's.

Mike Baker
And that. But that's not popular either. You can't be a centrist on campus. No. Because you can't say there's good ideas on both sides.

So I know, fuck that day or not terrible. So, yeah, so she went through school and that's a terrible thought. Right? Particularly when you're paying for it. But she worked out fine.

She's great. And she understood a joke. Right? She got the joke, but it shouldn't be there. Right?

Joe Rogan
You shouldn't have to decipher that for four years. You shouldn't have to go. Let me put this through the bullshit filter, okay. Let me just get through this class and figure out what's applicable and what I need for my degree. Yeah.

Mike Baker
But unless I do think there's some bounce back on the corporate side with Dei, for example, I think there are a number of companies out there, just as with the climate change, I've watched oil companies do this complete left turn, saying, we're going to make over half of our revenues from green energy in the future, near future, a couple of years from now, and you think it's not going to happen. But they have to play that game for a while. Then they come back and go, it's not going to happen. So you know what we're doing? We're investing in all of this shit, including fossil fuels.

So I think whether it's that or whether it's kind of the pushback on Dei from corporations that are saying maybe it is a grift, right? Maybe you got all these Dei grifters out there and they got it. It's a cottage industry. They can make a lot of money off of this bullshit, get a lot of government grants and all this things. But I think there's some pushback.

Universities, I think are a tougher issue. I don't think unless parents and kids just say, I'm not going to that bullshit. I mean, look, have you seen some of these kids at these supposedly elite universities talk? How the fuck did they get into these universities? Because they must have passed the application process.

Joe Rogan
Some kids are just really bad at talking. They're good school. So you think that's what it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could be.

Well, I think, you know, you basically have to just memorize what they're teaching you. That doesn't require a lot of critical thinking. Yeah. And then when you have to think on your own and say, what is from the river to the sea mean? Yeah, what river are we talking about?

What does that mean? Yeah, what sea are we talking about? And what does that mean? What happens to the Jews that live there? Where do they go?

They go back to Germany. Yeah. Like, what are you saying? That's an interesting. It's an interesting phrase.

Mike Baker
I will say that, you know, you talk about Hamas and the israeli conflict now, and it's. I mean, there's a minefield here. Actually, one of my. One of my managing directors for my company, Portman Square Group, for all your information and security needs. Thank you.

One of the mansion directors said. Knew that I was going to sit back down with you, and they said, look, I know you're probably going to want to talk about Hamas. Is there any way you can do it without pissing off people? That's cute. Yeah, I know.

That's what I thought. So you want me to talk about the israeli palestinian issue without upsetting somebody. And she's a brilliant person, but I don't think that's going to happen. But I will say it is.

Obviously, it's complex, but it's complex in part because it's not absolute, right? And everybody talks in absolutes when it comes to this, right? It's Hamas. It's a palestinian. Hamas is a terrorist organization, so fuck them.

But it's a palestinian problem. Or it's the israeli problem. You know what? If you look at their history, there's problems on both sides, right? And yet we talk about it like it's black and white, one or the other, right?

And we're never going to. This problem's never probably going to get solved in our lifetimes anyway. But it is disturbing when you hear some of the kids, the actual students. I mean, try to explain what this is, right. And what this problem is, and talk to me about the river to the sea.

Which, again, you can say that phrase, you know, in ten different circumstances, it's going to mean ten different things to ten different people. Right. And that's legitimate. You have to understand that. That's.

Okay, I get it. The Israelis view that as like you're talking for a destruction. Genocide of Israelis. Right. Because that's a destruction of a group.

Right. Not a war crime or something. Not crime against humanity. Genocide is your intent, is to destroy the group. Right?

Mike Baker
And so they'll see that Palestinians, some Palestinians. Not Hamas. Hamas has it in their charter. They know what river to the sea means, right? It's.

It's, you know, it's taking over that entire territory. And, you know, fuck Israelis. But Palestinians can say it, and it means something else. It's a yearning for whatever. Freedom for a homeland for.

So there are variances in it, but that never gets discussed sometimes, because people are just screaming at each other, like, every other fucking subject out there, right? That. And that is the issue. Right? Yeah.

Joe Rogan
And then, of course, when you are on a college campus and all this is being encouraged by these groups that are funded, then you seem like if you want to be a good person, you have to be a part of this group. You have to go there and be a part of this protest. And we see a lot of that. Yeah, they're just there because they think they're supposed to be a good person to be there, and they want to make all their friends think they're a good person. They're carrying around signs and yelling out.

Mike Baker
These things got the kef yawn, and they're like, hey, look at me. I'm in the encampment. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing here. But meanwhile, it is a fascinating time if they allowed debates, because if you could see a pro Israeli and a pro palestinian debate, like a real, legitimate, honest, intellectual debate, and discussing all the various issues, like, from the beginning of the formation of Israel to back in the history of the land, and then what's going on today, all the treaties, all the different things that have happened, all the different peace talks, that would be a fascinating opportunity for people to hear both sides of this conflict and try to get a better understanding of it, instead of just running out there with signs and camping on the lawn. By the way, these places of higher education are supposed to be where these difficult conversations get sorted out.

Exactly. Because you're supposed to have the smartest minds and to bring in the smartest minds from either side. There's brilliant people that are pro israeli and brilliant people that are pro Palestine. They're brilliant. And if you can get them together and have them sort out your details, all the people in the audience can get a better, more informed understanding of how complex this conflict is.

Joe Rogan
And that is supposed to be what universities are for. That's what it should be. It should be a place where people can sit down and learn something about something very difficult, which is international conflict. These crazy moments in history where we get entwined with military conflicts that are happening all over the world, and it's nowhere near you, and it's complicated shit, man. And to just run out there with a sign because these fuckers are organizing this on campus, it messes everything up.

It messes up everybody. And to have, like, only one side's perspective heard messes up everybody. The whole thing's a mess, man. Well, I think that the students, for the most part, again, the actual students who have an affiliation with the universities, look, the pro Hamas groups, the pro palestinian activists, they tend to view the students, I believe, as essentially useful idiots, right? Window dressing.

Mike Baker
And it gives it a sort of a veneer of as you pointed out before, sort of this organic grassroots movement that's sweeping the nation, when in fact, there's this underlying infrastructure that's always out there trying to take advantage of opportunities like this in the chaos. And then aside from that, then you've got this other 30,000 foot problem where you've got the iranian regime and others who are promoting this and pushing for it. Look, Hezbollah, Hamas, they've got a lot of money, right? They have. Again, not to disappear out of rabbit hole, but the leaders of Hamas are extremely wealthy, right?

Ishmael, Kanye and Marzouk and Michal, the other cacts, they have billions of dollars. Because for years, people say, well, how could that be possible? Well, for years and years now, they have been receiving a great deal of money. Conservative estimates from iranian regime, Hamas gets maybe a quarter billion a year. Qatar, it appears, gives them even more than that.

There have been years when they've given about $400 million to Hamas for a variety of reasons, ostensibly. And part of that money coming from Qatar is by agreement with Israel, because part of it is, over the years, the idea that you're buying quiet, buying peace, there was a process in place to try to track that money that came in just. Same with the Palestinian Authority over in the West bank. But that's a lot of money. Not to mention even the money going to unravel.

Joe Rogan
Same situation with Ukraine, too. Right? We don't really know where it all goes. And some of it definitely goes into. Pockets in the car.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a guy. Did you see that guy? I forget what.

Joe Rogan
What his position is in Ukraine, but he's driving around in a Rolls Royce. This fucking $600,000. He's driving around in a house. He's driving around in a house. You got a fucking Rolls Royce.

And he's got the only Rolls Royce in Ukraine. This one. Whatever it is. Yeah. Is it a specter?

Is that what it. Is it a phantom? Maybe it's a phantom. Well, you got. I mean, it's a fucking.

Mike Baker
And that's been. But isn't it crazy? It's like the scene in Goodfellas. Yeah. Where the guy has the cadillac.

Joe Rogan
He goes, yes. What the fuck? What are you doing with this? Did I tell you? Didn't I tell you it was a great scene?

What a great scene. God. Yeah, it's. You got a video? That dude driving around in his Rolls Royce.

That car. I don't know. That's our list saying this is. But this. No, no, this is a real recent one.

He's driving around. But it might be central bank governor. That might be fake, too. It all might be fake. Well, you trained politician, Ukraine politician, Rolls Royce.

Write that right in Google politician. Crane Rolls Royce politician. Because this videos go to videos. Oh, news. Fake.

BBC News clip. Ukraine's ex arm. It's from a month ago. Yeah. Ex army chief paid to leave Ukraine.

Joe Rogan
No, that's not it. That's a different clip. But this is. But this is a good example, right? I mean, you really got to dig.

Protesters discover luxury cars allegedly belonging to. President son ten years ago. Okay, listen. Yeah, 2014, when the fucking coup happened. Well, Ukraine has always had problems.

Corruption. Yeah, yeah, but I forget what this guy's position was. But he was driving around. It's not Russell Brand. I had no idea Russell Brand was Ukraine.

Is this it? Rolls. Roy Specter that. 600,000 Ukraine politicians, uS, Europe. Look at his fucking car.

Look at that car. Look at that car. That's it. That's the video, bro. That's a house.

That guy's driving around a house. God damn it. Is he driving it himself, I wonder? Of course he is. That's a bold move right there.

Of course he is. It's a beautiful car. You're not gonna let a fucking idiot drive that car. You stole that money. God.

Hard work. Well, and that's. Again. Yeah. When you talk about, like, whether we're talking about money that goes to the palestinian cause and gets filtered through Hamas and that's.

Mike Baker
They better never carve off billions of dollars for themselves. They're living big lives in Qatar and Turkey. But part of the problem with Ukraine has been in terms of where they got big issues. Right. One of them has been explaining why it's important to the american people.

Right. The administration hasn't really accomplished that yet. Right. And trying to say, why are we doing this? Right.

Mike Baker
They should have been doing this. You see them wave their flags in Congress. Yeah. Well, they waved the ukrainian flags. I don't know what you're saying.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, well, no one explained it. Explained it. Here we go. Yeah, but you remember at the very beginning, everybody had a ukrainian flag on their front of their house to see. It in Congress, and they're passing that aid bill.

Who handed those out? Yeah. Yeah. Where'd you get those? Exactly.

Do you guys get those from home? Yeah. Who's telling you to waive those? Got them from Amazon. This whole thing seems coordinated.

You want to tell me about how this happened? Plus, also, where's the money go? That's the other big issue is the transparency and how are we spending this money? How are we spending your money? A taxpayer's money.

Mike Baker
And look, I fall down on the side of. I don't want to see Putin win, and he will win without significant support. That gets to the point where he feels so much pain, he actually negotiates a settlement. Right? We're not going to get to a victory in this war.

That's bullshit. The idea that Ukraine is going to win the war and claim all their territory, bullshit. It's not going to happen. You think they're going to reclaim Crimea? Putin's going to give that up.

He'll probably go to tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield before he does that. Right? And so you've got. You've got to get. But you got to hurt him enough so that he says, oh, fuck it, okay?

Because if he's hurt enough, that means at home he's facing some dissent. Right? And that's the big thing for him. He doesn't want, you know, he just wants to hold on to power. Right?

Joe Rogan
He wants to hear two versions of what's going on. I hear the war has already been won by Russia, and Ukraine is down to, like, a minimum amount of soldiers. They've lost half a million people. Rough estimates, like, no one really knows what the real estimates are. And then I've heard other stories where Ukraine is actually doing much better than people think.

And Russia has hemorrhaged people. Cause they're essentially just sending people into the front line. They send in prisoners, and they're just using bodies to win this. Well, both sides are accurate. Both sides are true.

Right? So, yeah, Ukraine has been hurting. They have what? Russia's got a three to one manpower advantage in terms of population, what they can do to recruit and put more people on the battlefield. And Russia has no problem with sort of a meat grinder strategy.

Mike Baker
Just throw bodies at it. And the stats on fatalities, on casualties, on both sides are completely bullshit. There's no transparency, really. And it's kind of understandable why you don't want to tell the other side how many soldiers you've lost or injured. Zelenskyy came out a while back and said, we've suffered 31,000 fatalities on the battlefield.

It's higher than that, and it's higher on the russian side because of their strategy and the way they just. Putin doesn't really care, so he throws bodies at it. The Russians are making headway on the east, and they are making an effort to push through those frontline defenses that Ukraine has up on the eastern side of Ukraine. The lack of armaments, the lack of munitions. While Congress and the US couldnt figure out what they wanted to do, that was a decided problem for Ukraine.

If that continued, then, yeah, Russia will win. They will push through, and they will eventually end up in Kyiv. And look, Putins already engaged in shenanigans in Moldova, in Georgia, right. Theyre working very hard behind the scenes in Georgia to split Georgia away from the EU. Right.

And thats because theyre worried that Georgia could eventually be part of the European Union, and they dont want that. And so theyre engaged in all sorts of activity there off the radar, which they do very well. Right. What does that mean? Well, disinformation and political influence campaigns, instilling personnel that are, that are theres a party there in Georgia, georgian dream party or something thats pro Kremlin.

And theyre pushing very hard on a variety of fronts. Theyre pushing a bill thats sort of like a foreign agent bill, which is part ofits a russian tactic, right, to basically single out anybody whos got foreign influence or foreign involvement. And that could be NgO's, it could be media, independent media. And the Russians have used that foreign agent bill very successfully. But my point is that it depends on your thought process.

If you think that, okay, Putin takes Ukraine, who gives a fuck, right? And that's all, that's all that's going to happen. He's not going to try to reconstitute the former Soviet Union in some fashion by going after a couple other states. Right. He wants a buffer zone with the west, which is what the Soviet Union was.

Right. He wants to rebuild that in some fashion. Not the same. Right. But in some fashion.

Mike Baker
So my experiences and other people's are different. And so that's why you end up with differing opinions and God bless. But mine is that he's not going to stop there. So my belief is you got to hurt him enough, get him to the table and call it good. And that good may look a lot like the way things were in 2022 when they started the invasion.

And that's going to be unsatisfying to a lot of people, but at least you end the fucking conflict, right. And fine, but I think that's where this goes. The idea that the only outright winner will be Putin, if we back off and say we're not going to provide you with certain armaments, certain weapons to allow you to inflict enough pain to stop this. And this is an incredibly complex and dynamic environment because the US is the White House, the Biden administration is pushing very hard on Zelenskyy to not attack any targets inside of Russia. The ukrainian military is like, well, fuck it.

Why aren't we attacking russian oil refineries and energy infrastructure like the Russians are doing inside Ukraine? That's been a tactic of the russian military for quite some time now. Right? Because it impacts morale of the population. It demoralizes people.

So the ukrainian military is saying, do that. The White House is saying, no, we don't want to escalate. So don't do that. Right now. The other side of that coin is if you fuck over the russian energy infrastructure, what does that do to oil prices around the world?

And what does it do to gas prices at the pump when you're in an election year? And I want to. I don't want to. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but then you got the Europeans and, you know, Macron is over there saying, well, you know, if Keeves asks, we, you know, I can see putting french troops on the ground in Ukraine. You trying to distract from the fact that his wife's a man.

Joe Rogan
Right? Yeah, I like that. No, it's the wildest one I ever heard. Yeah. And the fact that Candace Owen is like, I stake my reputation on this.

Like, are you fucking sure? Yeah. Yeah. Is this where you want to go? Is this.

Mike Baker
Is this how you want to be known? I'm so confused by that one. Oh, God. I've tried. I've tried to look into that one.

Joe Rogan
I really have. And to my own embarrassment, I've looked into it. Yeah. My point is, like, this person, this woman that he's married to, even. Even if it's a man.

Yeah. The real problem is they had a relationship when Macron was 15. Yeah. And she was 39. That by itself is wild, because if it was the opposite, if it was a 39 year old man who was a teacher and a 15 year old girl was a student, this would be horrific.

Joe Rogan
Everybody would be up in arms. Well, the greatest line about that is, what was his name? Berlusconi. Right. The old italian prime minister.

Mike Baker
Someone asked him what he thought of Macron's wife, and he says, well, he's got a good looking mom, doesn't he?

So anyway, but. I did a little research. Ukrainian MP, this is the story that came out. Was this super dope. He looks like a dude to be driving around a Roll Royce.

Look at us. The story is he's super rich, guy has a bunch of dope cars. But I found a post on, what. Nine gag mini dope cars. They found the VIN number.

And the VIN number was to a. Car from last year. So I don't know that it makes. Maybe that makes sense that. What do you mean?

Mike Baker
This is the plate. The plate numbers to a car from last year. And the story was saying that it's for a new, like a brand new car. It's this. Yeah, but those are hard to get.

The first electric specter. Yeah, yeah, but those are hard to get. Like, there's 20 2023s that are for sale right now. Like, you don't. It's like, like when I got a.

Joe Rogan
If you go looking for one, like, I got a Nissan a GTR, I had to get a 2023 2020 fours weren't available like, when I got it. So that could be. Yeah, you get a Nismo. And also if you get one of those Rolls Royce spectrums, those are fucking hard to get, dude. And a brand new one, that's a 2023 with 0 mile on it could be what you're buying new.

Mike Baker
And I'll tell you one thing, this guy could have, you know, he could have carved this money out corruptly from a variety of sources over the years. Right? So this is a lot of ways to mix the money. Yeah, that's bottom line is I get bitches with me car. Look at this car.

That's a really good accent. It's a very good accent. This is basically your house, you know, with the right. This is multiple of your house. With the right disguise, you could walk the streets of Ukraine.

Joe Rogan
I can be a ukrainian wrestler. Give me a cauliflower here. I walk around like I'm in a hunch, like I'm ready to shoot a double, like, here in a hunch. Yeah, I think that there's definitely a lot of corruption over there. And to deny that, I'm sure you saw that one thing where Candace Owen was going back and forth with the New York Times when they were saying, what evidence do you have of Ukraine being corrupt?

She's like, oh, you mean your fucking newspaper, stupid. Yeah, she said these different articles about the rampant corruption in Ukraine. It's been, it's decades, right. And we've known that and we've known that. But anywhere, youve got vast sums of money coming in for a variety of reasons, which is, again, why im always astounded when people say, oh, theres no way that the three top leaders of Hamas are worth $11 billion collectively.

Mike Baker
Okay, well, even if take a 10th of that and you think about these guys running Hamas, which supposedly, I mean, theyve been governing since 2007, 2006, supposedly for the benefit of the palestinian people. And they're sitting on billions of dollars. And you think. And so that's why, you know, fuck em. Us.

And I understand the israeli perspective, which is we can't allow them to retain control. I get that. Right. I understand that operational perspective. Right.

The problem is that you're not gonna win the narrative. You're not gonna win what's happening on the international stage. And sometimes, you know, sometimes the israeli government can act like they don't understand how public relations plays out. Right. Look at the past couple of days.

What's happened. So Hamas wasn't going to accept the ceasefire. Hamas has turned down opportunities for a ceasefire. Right. They just.

And, okay, and then they say, okay, the other day, 48 hours ago, whatever they said, we're going to walk away from the negotiating table. Fuck that. Right. Knowing. Knowing that Israel is ready to do some limited operations in Rafael.

So because theyre not stupid. Theyve got a very good intelligence network. Right. And theyve got a lot of. And so they understand what Israel is about to do.

Right. They say, were walking away from the negotiating table. Israel says, okay, fine, everybody evacuate eastern Rafa. Were going to engage in some targeted strikes against Hamas, targets that weve identified. Hamas turns around shortly thereafter and says, ah, we accept a peace proposal, a cease fire proposal from Egypt and Qatar.

Mike Baker
So look at us, we're accepting a ceasefire proposal and Israel's moving on. Rafa, that's a, you know, on one hand, that's a brilliant communication strategy. Right now, you've won the day on the international stage. And exactly what they knew would happen, just like what they knew would happen after the 7th October strikes. They knew what was gonna happen.

They knew that civilians were going to die. Right. They understood that. And again, everybody's got their own opinion, minus Hamas doesn't give a shit about dead Palestinians. In fact, that's their currency.

That's how they, that's how they work the game. And so they understood what was going to happen. Israel was in a bind. They got to respond. They're in an urban environment.

It is fucked up. Right. And too many people have died. Right. I don't necessarily believe the Hamas run Gaza health ministry in terms of their statistics.

And also, they don't separate out how many combatants were killed. Right. They're just like, oh, 34,000 people have died. So people imagine, oh, my God, 34,000 civilians. Thousands and thousands of those people are fighters or Hamas fighters, right?

Again, it's horrible. I'm not saying it's not. It's awful. Right. And both sides are problematic here.

But what I am saying is Hamas has a much better communications public relations operation. So they knew what Israel was about to do. They claim, oh, we accept the ceasefire. The ceasefire was completely different from what had been presented by Israel and to Israel. Right.

Just during the past 48 hours, they say, no, this thing is not what we've been talking about. We don't accept it. So now they've moved in on Rafa and they've lost, yet again the narrative on the world stage. So now it's. Now they're the ones who are causing problems anyway.

So it's kind of fucked. But again, the point is, it's also when all that money's sloshing around, of course you're going to have people who are benefiting from it. And in this case, it's people like Hanye who can sit and Qatar with all that money. And what are they worried about? They're worried about losing the revenue stream.

They know that if Hamas is destroyed, you think Iran's going to continue giving them a quarter billion dollars a year or Qatar is going to allow them to live this lavish lifestyle and give them money? Or they're going to continue to be able to extract taxes from money coming in or from goods coming into Gaza, you know, or put tariffs on things coming in to the tunnels, the contraband. No. So, in part, it never changes. Right.

Where there's situations like this, whether it's there, whether it's Ukraine, wherever. Yeah. You're going to get this, right? You're going to get this level of corruption. And so I'm not surprised at all when people are worried about or concerned about what's going on with Ukraine and we give them another $61 billion.

And how much is that? Is it ending up open pockets? But I'd argue that that's part of the problem that the government, the US government has faced. They haven't done their job, they haven't provided as much transparency as possible and accountability to the american public. And so you lose the support of the american public who had been just two years ago, waving their fucking flags and putting ukrainian flags on their Twitter sites and all the rest of that bullshit.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. Anyway, what do you think happens to Gaza? If you had a guess.

Mike Baker
Look, this. Go back to the Romans, right? Putting down a jewish uprising in Judea, which is essentially Jerusalem area, West bank. They call it the West bank now and Israelis still call it Judea. Do I think the problem is going to be solved?

No. In the short term, will the conflict end. Yes, but then what happens to all that area that's been destroyed? They got to rebuild it, right? And who rebuilt?

Well, they've been trying to put together an arab states coalition, right, of countries that would then be responsible for a couple of things. The rebuilding of the infrastructure and also security, right? Because again, no ceasefire, no permanent ceasefire is going to be accepted. That allows Hamas to be the governing authority there, right? So the US has been pushing very hard to have the Palestinian Authority, right, run by Mahmoud Abbas, who's been in charge of the Palestinian Authority for God 20 years now, and he's not popular in Gaza, right.

They were kicked out. I mean, they were. Well, there's been a rift with the palestinian groups, factions for some time. You go back to when was the PlL? Pll was.

Pll was started in like early seventies, right? Yasser Arafat, remember him? Looked a lot like Ringo Starr. And they were never photographed together. So I still think there's something there.

I was gonna investigate that on the next season of black files. Small mustache. Yeah, they looked a lot alike. Look similar. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
I would be able to tell if they. They were in a room together. Yeah, but they never were is my point. Well, why would he be? Fuck you doing hanging out with Yasser Arafat?

Mike Baker
Arafat was a. He was. He loved music. Who doesn't? He doesn't.

God. The Beatles were great. But anyway, so Yasserafat plo gets put together. See what I'm talking about? His nose.

Joe Rogan
Ringo's nose is clear. He's more arab. He looks more like Yasser Arafat than Yasser Arafat does, doesn't he? Doesn't he? Maybe we're on to something.

Come on, dog. This is what. But you see what I'm talking about? Look, look. Pretty fucking similar.

Mike Baker
You change the sunglasses. Yeah, just. Yes. Little CIA disguise. But Yasser could not play the drums the way Ringo played.

Joe Rogan
Dumb, maybe didn't want to throw everybody off. Two of my boys, the oldest scooter and the youngest mugsy, they play drums. They play drums for a long time. They're very good, both of them. Mugsy in particular loves the Beatles, right?

Mike Baker
And he'll tell you, he said Ringo is completely underrated as a drummer, right. You know, not in the drumming world. They all know he's great, but in. The music world he's kind of underrated, period. Is an important part of the Beatles.

Joe Rogan
I never understood why they decided, that guy sucks. Yeah. Yeah. What the hell he was. Come on.

Fuck's wrong with you? He married Barbara Bach. What do you want? Yeah. Well, he did.

Well, she's not related to Katherine Bach, is she? Do I sound like an idiot if I say, who's Katherine Bach from the Dukes of Hazzard? Daisy Duke. Dude, that was Kathryn Bach. Yeah.

Mike Baker
What was the other guy? What was it? It was like Cooter and Skeeter and. Bo and Luke Duke. And then there was Roscoe P.

Joe Rogan
Coltrane. He was the sheriff. I remember him. Yeah, Roscoe, Pete Coltrane. And then there was Cooter.

Mike Baker
Damn it. I knew there was a cooter in there. And then there was boss Hogg. That's right. Was the man.

They don't make tv like that anymore. No. You can't even show that show anymore because of the confederate flag on the roof of the. Generally they have to blur that, right? Yeah, they blur it out now.

Yeah. No, you do. They handle that with the CGI. That now. So you could still watch that show because I.

Mike Baker
There's got to be car shows that what they do? Yeah, I think so. Because there's car shows where you can't go if you got a general Lee. Because if you have a real. Like.

Joe Rogan
They used to do the. Oh, one on the side. Yeah, yeah. See? Okay.

That's what it used to look like. That's right. Amazon considers pulling Dukes of Hazard from video because of the confederate flag. But didn't they. Didn't they CGI out the confederate flag for the show?

CGI confederate flag. Yeah, remove flag. Yeah, Google remove flag. Remove flag.

Consumer products divisions decided to cease licensing replicas of Dukes of Hazzard, generally. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, remove the flag. Warner Brothers announces removal of confederate flag from the Dukes of Hazzard. They were removing it.

Oh. From all merchandise. Okay. Not on the show. Not on the old video.

Joe Rogan
Up until eight years ago, they sold confederate flags. You know what they could do is they could, if they want to renew the license on that thing, they just put an LGBTQ whatever flag on top of their. It is kind of tv land. Pulls dukes of hazard amid confederate flag. I heard that they were going to put it back up and CGI the flag off.

Mike Baker
I like that people apparently have enough time on their hands to worry about this shit. I think they're like, you know what offends me? Well, it's fucking General Lee. It's kind of bizarre how they didn't think that was offensive in the eighties. Right, right.

There's a lot of shows you couldn't remember Starsky and Hutch. Remember Huggy Bear, the. I think he was a pimp on Starsky and Hutch. You couldn't get away with that shit anymore. That's right.

Huggy bear. Huggy bear. Yeah. So anyway, moving back to the PLO. So back then, part of the rift between the Palestinian Authority and.

And Hamas is Hamas. It came out of the first intifada in like 80, whatever, 87. But they took exception with Yasser Arafat because he basically denounced violence, right. As a way to attain, you know, the palestinian objectives and goals and everything. He was like, okay.

And he, you know, remember, he was involved in signing some peace accords in Madrid and Oslo accords and everything. So Hamas, you know, in their charter, basically is like, no, jihad is the way to go. Violence is the way that we're going to, you know, it's liberation, not negotiation. They have all these sayings in their charter right, about this. And so anyway, so there's.

But there have been problems. And eventually they had an election in.

What the hell? What year was it? 2006, I think, in Gaza. Right. And Fatah Yasser airframe party, the PLO.

Party. Was up and was expected to win. Didn't win. Hamas won't. And during the course of the next year, they actually got into a war between Hamas and PLO or palestinian authority, and Hamas booted them out.

Mike Baker
So they govern. So when you think about Palestine or the palestinian state or whatever it is, you've actually got two completely separate entities. You've got Gaza run by Hamas and you've got the West bank run by Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority. Is the Palestinian Authority in the West bank. Are they popular there?

Yeah, they're popular enough. Yeah, they're popular. They continue to govern. Right. They continue to be in charge and.

Joe Rogan
Placed israeli objective that the Palestinian Authority control all of Palestine. No, they don't. See, that's where it comes in. The US secretary blanken and others have been pushing this idea that somehow the Palestinian Authority will be the governing body in Gaza.

Mike Baker
You know, Gazans, look, they don't necessarily, you know, they don't want that. He's actually less popular. Mahmoud Abbas is less popular now than he was even before the 7 October attacks. And Israel is saying, no, look, you know, Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, they haven't even denounced the attacks of the 7 October. Right.

We don't want them. It's like, in their mind, it's almost like just trading one for the other, right, if they're the governing authority. So I think when you say what it's going to look like, you know, it's probably going to be and Israel said, we don't want to occupy this shit. They stopped occupying Gaza in 2005. Right.

They were, like, done. Now, they still controlled the border and they controlled the coastline. Right. And the one crossing, there's basically two crossings there. Kareem Shalom.

Crossing with Israel in Gaza. Then there's Arafa crossing. But they're saying, no, we don't want them governing. So it could end up looking like some type of unit, arab states, type of coalition. Right.

That then is there. And they're responsible for security of Gaza and they're responsible for the rebuilding effort. But he has a long ways to go to get there. So Israel is not trying to take over Gaza. They don't want it.

Yeah. Look, you have to go by leveled it. They kind of leveled it. Yeah. I mean, they look and people cry genocide.

Mike Baker
They're saying genocide. You can debate the meaning of genocide, but typically, in terms of academia and people that talk about these things, you've got war crimes, you've got crimes against humanity, you've got genocide, and they all mean different things. Israel wants to destroy Hamas. You have to ask yourself, is their intent to destroy all palestinian people as a group to just get rid of them? Is it like what they tried to do with the Armenians all those years ago, or the german effort against the Jews?

I mean, is that what they intend to make this group disappear? Or is their intent to destroy Hamas, a terrorist organization that has been attacking them and continues to attack them and it's in their charter because it's in, the iranian regime's objective, in their mind, is to remove Israel. You could argue what iranian regime wants to do is genocide. They want to remove Israel. Right.

That's pretty much the definition of genocide. So again, it depends on how you. But there's obviously a disproportionate amount of military power. Well, yes, again, between the two. Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. But you have to say, okay, are we lumping Hamas into the iranian proxy network? They built a belt of terrorist organizations. Right.

Mike Baker
Whether it's islamic jihad, palestinian islamic jihad, or Hamas or the Houthis or the Hezbollah up north. They've created this network of proxies designed with the objective of removing Israel at some point. Right. Because that's the stated purpose of the iranian regime. They want the destruction of Israel.

So you could argue, well, look, all of that together, that's the military power. Or is it just this one group now? In a confined sense, yes, of course. Israel's got far more military power than Hamas as an organization. Right.

And again, it doesn't you know, it's not one thing or the other. It's horrible what the palestinian civilians go through and have been going through. You could also argue that Hamas knows exactly what they were going to go through when they instituted or they instigated the attacks. They did get support and training from the iranian regime. So the iranian regime knew what was going to happen.

Right. So what do you think the stated, what is the purpose of the attacks? The attacks are not just to kill those 1200 people. No, it's not. No, you're absolutely right.

Mike Baker
And part of it is tied to the desire to scuttle the Abraham Accords and the potential normalization of relations between Saudis and Israel that really worries them. Right. And Ismail Hanye came out ahead of the political wing of Hamas, came out after the attacks and talked about this and glorified the attacks and also said that, look, this people, our arab brothers, our arab states should realize that Israel is not, you will have no peace, basically with negotiations and with relationships. So he was clear in the way that he put it that he was sending a message to the arab states about this idea of normalizing relations with Israel. So that was part of it.

Part of the desire was to tank those discussions, which were pretty well underway and now are back again. They kind of took them off the table for a while. But the Saudis and the US have been having some pretty good discussions recently over the normalization of all of this. Right. And I think it's in the arab states, look, Bahrain and Morocco and others all understand, too, that long term stability down the road is going to come from normalization of relationships and some long term ability to have peace, which is part of the problem.

Look, they don't want, you know, that's why they don't take palestinian, they're worried about the palestinian refugees. You say, well, why doesn't Egypt just open up the crossing and set up a refugee camp across the way from the Rafa crossing? Well, in part because they're worried about their own security. Egypt's been building a big wall. They've been adding to their wall down along their border with Gaza Strip.

So look, they formed the PLO. Egypt was in charge of the PLO all those years ago, back in the early seventies. Essentially, the leaders they put in place in the PLO all those years ago were basically just puppets for Egypt. And part of the reason why they were putting those people in place was because they wanted to minimize sort of the radical islamic extremist actions and the acts that they took against Israel because they wanted stability. The families down there, whether it's Qatar or the Saudis or the Egyptians or whatever, they're just as worried about radical Islam and the potential for them to lose control and to lose power as are the Israelis and others, in a sense, right.

Not necessarily from the physical sense, but they've attacked arab families before, arab leaders before. So it's a complex problem. I guess what I'm saying is there's a lot of moving parts here, and sometimes it all just gets thrown into one simple minded argument. It's good or it's bad. Committing genocide.

Palestinian people are terrible. No, there's so much fucking more to this. So again, I don't know that there's any solution that will be long, long term, committed peace in the region in our lifetime. But in the short term, I think the conflict, when it's wrapped up, I don't see how it ends with Hamas still being in control of Gaza. I don't.

I think that's a red line for the israeli government. Now, maybe Netanyahu doesn't last as the leader of the government and somebody like Benny Gantz takes over, and they're more inclined to say, now, you know what? Just for the sake of some peace right now, you know, let's just call it quits. But do you think that's possible? Yeah, it could happen.

He's got. Netanyahu's got a lot of internal issues, political issues. Right. But I think. Well, that's something that we talked about before.

Joe Rogan
The people protesting on the street for months, hundreds of thousands of people protesting on the streets about Netanyahu expanding power with their courts. Yeah. And I think that if there's. Look, if there's a change in government, fine, they do what they're gonna do. I just think that from an operational perspective, and this is just operation.

Mike Baker
I'm not talking about the moral, the ethics of the whole thing, of people dying, all this. I'm just saying from an operational perspective, leaving Hamas in place isn't going to create any, even midterm. Is it possible for them to get Hamas out? It is possible. They have to do what they're doing.

Joe Rogan
Just bomb the shit out of everything. Well, they do a lot of targeted strikes. They do a lot of. Yeah, there's, there's. It's.

Look, it's. It's fucking ugly. Right. There's no, you can't. You can't sugarcoat any of this and say, well, they're just.

Mike Baker
So when I say targeted strikes, I'm not saying it's all very surgical. And people aren't getting. And of course, people are dying, but. And you're not going to remove them. You can't get down to zero sum here, right?

It's like. It's like counterterrorism. You never reduce the risk down to zero. So when you're talking about Hamas, you can't destroy them in the concept of saying, you know, they're all dead, right? Because the leaders are still, like I said, they're fat and happy sitting in Qatar and Turkey and elders.

Joe Rogan
That's where they're hiding. They're not even hiding. Right? They're guests. This is how fucked up some of these Middle east problems are.

Mike Baker
They're guests at the qatari government, and we know they're there. And so did they go there when the conflict started? No. Oh, no, no. These guys have been living abroad for years, right?

They've been living abroad for years. And then. And in part because, look, Hamas runs a network of businesses and charitable organizations, just like Hezbollah does. Hezbollah's got a global presence, but they're sitting over there in a country that is also one of our key non NATO allies. So we have our largest Middle east base there in Qatar.

It's only just recently, and recently, it's like the past week or so where the US has broached the idea of, say, look, if Hamas doesn't accept a ceasefire, then the qatari government needs to move these people out. They need to expel them. And whether the qatari government would do that or not, because they're playing all sides, right? The qatari government does. They've hosted the Taliban.

They've hosted ISIS leaders. Nice parties. Nice parties. A great party. What a great party to host.

The canopies are delicious. It's a lovely time in the conversation. And so, you know, so it is. I'm just trying to paint the picture that it's more complicated than somebody sitting on a campus at UCLA might imagine. Right.

Right. And to your point, it deserves more debate. It deserves more intellectual, open conversation. Right? Not necessarily.

Mike Baker
When you talk about who's right and who's wrong, how about focus on how do we fucking solve the problem? Right? And the problem is maybe intractable. If the problem is a two state solution, then maybe this thing is just never going to work, because maybe a two state solution is the best idea. But if one side or the other is not going to accept it, and both sides have pushed back against it at various times, then what do you got?

Where's it going? The thing is, most people never get to hear this wide ranging perspective like you just laid out with all the different factors. I'm sure there's more factors, but all the different, you know, significant pieces that are in play here. Yeah. And I think that's.

But the same thing happens with every major issue, right. Because again, if you turn on the news, you get a three minute piece of news about a major crisis happening, right? Like the Ukraine conflict or whatever. And not everybody wants to sit and listen to details about Israel and Hamas or Ukraine or what Iran's doing with their nuclear weapons program or whatever. But we tend to.

We tend to have ADHD, right, as a nation, I think. And so, again, people are busy. People are just focused on other things. But it deserves more conversation, it deserves more detail and not the bullshit that gets thrown out there from one side or the other. Right.

Sort of the hard edges or the shit that comes in from outside elements like the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, who don't have our best interests at heart. And, you know, so again, we keep going back to the same thing. If people aren't curious and they don't take the fucking responsibility upon themselves to understand what it is that they're listening to. Is it. Is it verifiable?

Is it credible? Whatever. Get a balance of news. Don't just sit and get in a silo and listen to shit because you agree with it. Right.

Have a conversation with somebody who disagrees with. That's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It's very valuable, too.

Joe Rogan
If you could. If you have the ability to just let someone talk and engage in them and not get upset and angry and just. Why do you think that? What do you think about this? And just have rash.

I mean, that used to be an admirable trait. Well, I think that's why, you know, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass. But that's why I think your show works, right. Is because you have conversations now, you piss people off. Because I think sometimes people have a hard time putting you in a box.

Right. And that makes people uncomfortable if they think, you know, okay, I know where he's coming from. And then you have a conversation where you're listening to something completely on the other side. Right. And you're not just saying, well, fuck you, that's wrong.

Mike Baker
You're saying, well, why is that? Right? And you're having people explain things that can piss people off. Right. Because everybody wants to identify, make a quick judgment and say, move on.

And judging is a lot easier than thinking. It is a lot easier. It's super simple. It's very fucking simple. Thinking is fucking complicated, especially when you're dealing with layers upon layers, decades and generations of conflict, like you are in Gaza and Palestine, Israel.

Joe Rogan
It's nuts. Yeah. I don't know where it's going to. I mean, again, I think the US is in an interesting position. They're not the key mediator here.

Right. They're not the. You know, they can exert pressure on Israel to some degree, but Israel has been very clear and said, look, we're going to. This is existential for us. Right.

Mike Baker
If the shoe was on the other foot, if it was the US that was facing this sort of threat. Right. If we were attacked by Mexico. Right. Or Canada.

Joe Rogan
Canada's a threat, but Canada's too close. Yeah. At least Mexicans speak Spanish. It's easier to. That's.

Mike Baker
That makes us uniquely different. Yeah. Meanwhile, there's way more Mexicans over here than there are Canadians. Right? I don't know.

I don't know if I trust the Canadians. I think they're coming across the border at night when we don't see them. I think they're in a cult. Yeah. That fucking Trudeau's got them in a cult.

Yeah. The fact that they voted that guy in again is mind blowing. Yeah. Like, how? What, are you fucking paying attention?

Your. Your country's literally falling apart, and you guys are so wrapped up in one ideology or another, you don't. Course. Correct. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
You know, it's like if Newsom was the governor, not just the governor of California, but the fee was the president, and he was running the same policies on our country. I don't know. He was. He was thrown out there. Now, they.

Mike Baker
Yeah, they moved off of Pete Buttigieg and some others, but now he's. Newsom is still unwinnable. Buttigieg is incomplete. He's unwinnable. Well, you could argue that Newsom also is incompetent, 100%.

Joe Rogan
But that slick fucker. You know, I think they were trying him for a little while, but then they decided to just run it with Biden again, which is just absolutely wild. Absolutely wild. Well, I was pretty convinced that this was going to be the month they were going to remove Biden. I was like.

Yeah. I was like, I think. May I talk to Tim Dillon about it? He put that idea in my head, and I think I was like, you know what? That totally makes sense.

Joe Rogan
May. Seems like it makes sense, because if you're gonna really get a new guy in place, if, you know, Biden is like, you guys, I got our problem as a thing to be here on the sidelines. I'm gonna work really close with Governor Newsom and I think four more years. Pause. Pause.

Mike Baker
That was actually brilliant. It's. It's fucking crazy. It's fucking crazy that these people are gaslighting us. But they can't.

They can't move him out. If they move him out, they gotta move Kamala Harris out. Right. Or they've got to elevate her to the top of the ticket, which is nuts. That's not going to happen.

Joe Rogan
Well, you have to be the nuttiest fucking Democrat. And I know a few. I know this one nutty Democrat that I'm guess I kind of friends, or I see him, I'll say hi. But this, this motherfucker is a Kamala Harris fan, you know, thank you, Madam vice President. Like, he's one of those.

Mike Baker
How do you get to that point? How do you. Retarded. Yeah. You just completely give in.

Joe Rogan
There's no critical thinking at all. And you're just fucking blue no matter who you ride or die. Well, that's what I mean. I assume that they've looked at the scenarios and they thought to themselves, we can't have Biden step down and put somebody else at the top of the ticket. So we've got to clear the ticket entirely.

Right. Because we can't run Kamala Harris as the presidential candidate, and we certainly can't bring in Newsom, a white dude, to run the top of the ticket and keep her in place. Right. That's not an optic valuable in that spot. She doesn't gain you.

Joe Rogan
She doesn't get confidence that we'll have a great vice president if he kicks the bucket. And, bro, how are they keeping him alive? Yeah. What are they giving him and where do I get it? Well, she'll be.

Mike Baker
She'll be present. What do I get? Wheeze on. Yeah. I want to try.

Joe Rogan
As an able bodied man of complete control of my cognitive functions, I'd like to know what that fucking cocktails like. I was going to say the cocktail that they gave him before the. The State of the union address. Whatever they gave him then that fired him up just long enough to make it through. Just long enough.

Boy, he must have slept for a week after that. I bet. God, I bet it's some high dose stuff, whatever it is. And I bet it feels great. Yeah.

Yeah. In the moment. And then I think it's probably a comedown. Oh, but, yeah, but, yeah. So she'll be president.

Mike Baker
This is my theory. I know. I've lost a bet with you before on Trump. But I worry that, look, I think the Republicans can't really go after Biden's age completely. Only because Trump is, what, 78?

Joe Rogan
Right. But he's not as compromised. Right. And that's absolutely true. But I just, I think that what's going to happen is that you have to have a perfect storm for Trump to win in terms of the independents, right, and suburban moms.

Mike Baker
And you have to have enough people come back into the tent, right, to vote for him. And I just, I don't know that I have enough confidence that that's going to happen. So we end up with President Biden and Harris again, which means we will have President Harris. I hate to say that, right? You wish well on everybody, right?

Good health and all that. Yeah. But come on, come on, come on, please. Are you kidding me? It's not going to two years into this next tenure.

Joe Rogan
But is he, President Trump ahead in a lot of polls in Sweden states? He is. But again, I don't know that I'd make bank on polls nowadays. I think it's, this is going to sound like I'm going off topic, but after the 7th October attacks in Gaza, I think that the survey was done in maybe January and February timeframe. They released it in March.

Mike Baker
So a palestinian research center based in where? Ramallah, I think in Gaza. I forget where it was. But anyway, they ran a survey and according to this poll that they did of residents of Gaza, over 70% supported Hamas the 7 October attacks, right? 70%.

Over 70% supported Hamas attacks. It was a miniscule amount that thought that Hamas was responsible for their troubles. Right. It was like less than 10%, I think that thought that Hamas was responsible for all the chaos now happening, right. Despite the fact of what they did.

But they supported what they did, according to the poll. Now, you peel that back and you think to yourself, okay, well, first of all, the survey was done in Gaza. So somebody knocks on your door and says, do you support Hamas actions on the 7 October, what the fuck do you think I'm going to say? Of course I'm going to say yes. It's kind of like if you walk up to somebody in San Francisco on a crowded street and say, do you support President Trump?

No. So I don't know that people are particularly honest at times in surveys and. Polls, especially in these circumstances. In these circumstances. But you're right.

Most surveys, most polls show him some points ahead. And don't get me wrong, I'd love to see less regulation we got all sorts of problems on the economic front. You know, one thing we could be doing as a government is peeling back some of the regulatory environment that's fucking us over. Right. In a lot of ways, not just the economy, but it impacts our national security down the road.

Right. How much, when you hear about shenanigans when it comes to voting, when you hear about like particularly corruption involved with mail in ballots, it seems to be a sticking issue with people. How much of a security issue is that? Like the mail in ballots thing? Yeah.

Mike Baker
Look, if there's an opportunity for fraud or chaos, some people somewhere, you know, whether Democrats or Republicans or whatever, if there's. If there's a fraud opportunity, there will be an element that will try to. Play off of that, especially if they think that it's imperative that this happened for this future of democracy. Future of democracy. It's, oh my God, I'm saving the country despite what I'm doing.

Joe Rogan
So that's what you're doing, being very unamerican. Right? Exactly. Because you're engaging in voter corruption. So I don't have any insight or inside information about, you know, to what degree there's a problem with mail in ballots and voter fraud.

Mike Baker
But to me I tend to be a little more simplistic. I remember a lot of elections where you just show up, you show your id, you fill out the form and then by that evening you found out who won. Right. It didn't seem to be that complicated and now. And nobody seemed really disenfranchised.

So I would like to see us just go back to the normal way of voting. Do we vote on it? How do people decide whether or not mail in ballots are appropriate? Because the reason why they were there in the first place was COVID. But now that it's there and it's set up, now there's this resistance to get rid of mail in ballots.

Joe Rogan
That is the thing that keeps us closer to corruption. And it seems to be. That's the thing. That's an element that you can fuck with, right? And you do this all the time in the business environment or whatever.

Mike Baker
You look at your protocols in place, you remove lack of controls where fraud could seep in. It's a common thing. It shouldn't be difficult. So then you have to look at it with some skepticism, right? Are you genuinely concerned that somehow there were vast swathes of the population that were disenfranchised and not able to vote or just can't get themselves an id, which I think is an insulting stance to take for a lot of people.

I'm sorry you're not smart enough to get yourself an id, but you need. One if you have a vaccine. Yeah, but you need one if you have a vaccine or you want to work or from sams feed yourself. You need one. But you don't need one to vote because that's racist or something.

So I think, you know, to me it just seems like we should look at it from, from a perspective of the way that you would do it if you were running a business, which is, I want to minimize the potential opportunities for fraud. How do I do that? It's very fucking simple. Seems fucking simple. You mean you phrase it that way?

Yeah. So, but they. That's not how. It's not how they're, how they're doing it right now. Is that something that can be voted on?

Joe Rogan
That's the question. Like who decides. Leave it up to the people, you mean. Well, who decides that mail in ballots are still legitimate? Well, I guess that.

Mike Baker
Was that a federal or a state decision? I think is. I don't know. That's a very good question. Yeah.

Who knows? Cause I have friends that believe there was no voter fraud at all and I have friends that believe that 100% Trump won. Yeah. Yeah, I'm the same way. I've got both sides.

And you think, okay, well, look, someone's. Got to be wrong. Well, and usually the answer is somewhere in that range in the middle there's some fraud. Was it enough to fuck things over? Who knows?

I don't know. But again, I keep going back to the operational concerns, which is just minimize the potential for fraud. Mail in ballots have always been mail in bouts have been a thing you're serving overseas or whatever, but there was a protocol for it and it was very straightforward and very clear. You know, the concern over ballot harvesting and mail in ballots and having, you know, months to get your. Having, you know, weeks pass before you know who won.

Right. Yeah. Talk about instilling, you know, skepticism over the credibility of your voting system. Take weeks to figure out who won a fucking election. Is there a real danger that Trump could win but lose, meaning that he could win the election but lose his court case?

Joe Rogan
Oh, and literally have to go to jail while he's the president? I mean, yeah. This was the topic of discussion at the Rogan house today. Was it? Well, they were trying to figure out.

Mike Baker
Like, yeah, he could, he could, he could. There's nothing that says he can't govern from jail.

Joe Rogan
Is he in danger of actually being put in a jail for these crimes of not. What did he do exactly? He paid a lady off and I guess he did it in a secretive way or in a, well, he did. It in the same way that Arnold Schwarzenegger did it, or he did it in the same way that a variety of people who are trying to suppress a bad pr story do it. Right.

Mike Baker
So I think the, I think the trial that's going on right now involving stormy Daniels in New York was the least favorite trial of the Democrats who are the most keen to see him put in prison. Right. They all felt as if this is probably not the one to start with, but they started with it because Alvin Bragg was dead set on doing it. Right. He just like, I'm going to throw this out there.

And, you know, a variety of other entities had looked at that case and said, we're not going to push it forward. And so they've put this forward. I don't think that there's anybody other than the hardcore never trumpers, the people that are just desperate to see him in a jumpsuit who believe that there's any merit to it. The analysts that you watch across the board, even the hard left ones, they tend to speak in caveats, right? Like they're not completely convinced that this was the way to go.

So I don't know. But having said that, if he gets convicted and if there's like some, you gotta go to prison sounds so fucking bizarre. How did we get to this point then? I don't know of any, any, you know, I don't know of anything that says he can't, you know, continue to run or be, you know, elected. Is that what he's being accused of?

Joe Rogan
Is this generally a crime that people actually have to go to jail for? No, no. They're trying to tie this in to sort of the campaign issue of campaign funds influencing of the campaign. Thats what theyre trying to tie it into. Well, of course, hes trying to suppress a story that he thought would be bad or that they thought his team thought would be bad for a campaign, but that in and of itself.

Mike Baker
So theyve got to tie it into how the funds were expended. Theyve tried this in the past. And again, it's not like there haven't been countless dudes who did the mess around and then had to pay to get the story suppressed. Right. I mean, that's that there are pr firms that specialize in that sort of thing.

So I don't know, I don't see that this is gonna, I don't see this is gonna tank him. Right. There's probably other cases out there. Is it a case where. Yeah, there's probably more cases, right.

Joe Rogan
Waiting. They're going to keep throwing it at them. Yeah. They've got a timeline of cases. And look, the democratic strategists have been, they stick to a message.

Mike Baker
They're very smart and they're very disciplined. But they all sat in a room somewhere and they looked at these various things. They looked at the election calendar and they looked at, you know, where the primaries are and they looked at when they could maybe get these trials going. And the idea being, let's just keep this thing rolling. Keep him in the news as being in a court.

Right. The idea that, look, the idea that he's got to sit there and can't leave, you don't see that, you know, that's not a typical move. Right. But now he's locked into that court on whatever, Monday, Tuesday and Thursday and Friday or whatever. So with the idea being he's not out on the campaign trail.

Right. So, but he's also in the news, and his supporters think that he's being unduly prosecuted or unfairly prosecuted. Right. And that it's a political prosecution and that all they're trying to do, which is essentially un american, is suppress their political rival. Right.

Mike Baker
And that is a large number of people in the country, a larger number every day. I think as this goes on, they gave you more of an understanding of this case. Like, the problem is, if you're a Democrat and you support this, if he does get in power now, he has this ability. You have to understand there's a precedent that's been set. And if you don't think that Biden has a shitload of things, let's say Biden loses, okay?

Joe Rogan
Let's get really crazy. Let's get really, really crazy. Biden loses. They inject him with stem cells for three years, and then they roll him out in 2027. Like, let's do it again.

Let's do it again. Trump won the second term. We saw disasters as a persist that was, and they say, you know what? He's been sharper than ever. And you get these New York liberals who just gaslight the shit out of you.

I saw that video and I'll tell you, I'm pumped. He's as sharp as attack. He's never been better. Sure, he's old, but that's his superpower, his work ethic. His work ethic looks fantastic.

Fantastic. He is so kind. He's such a good man. He's the father of our country. I'm so lucky.

Mike Baker
I read an ex post by, admittedly a guy that works for a consulting firm in DC, right? He's a democratic strategist. But he wrote this glowing thing about how, oh, Biden's had this great couple of weeks. Man, has he had a good couple of weeks. He's on fire.

Yeah, he's on fire. On fire. Look what he's done in the Middle east, right? And you think four more years. Well, you could argue that part of our problem was we coddled the iranian regime for three years and that's how things got to this stage.

And now what, suddenly he's had a good couple of weeks. They're not leading the charge on any ceasefire negotiations. Right? In fact, you could argue that they're making national security decisions related to Israel based on domestic policy concerns, political concerns. Right.

You don't want to lose the youth vote, you don't want to lose the arab american vote by being overly supportive of Israel. So there is some concern here. But isn't that losing the jewish vote then? Because jewish. We talked about this yesterday, that 70% of jewish people identify or vote as democrats.

Yeah, I know. And what's that all about? I've never been quite clear on how that number worked. Right. It is interesting.

Yeah, it is interesting. But anyway, I don't want to say that they're making too many decisions based on domestic political concerns, but I think that they are. That's just the nature of the game. Right? And so I don't think I'm being overly cynical, but, yeah.

Joe Rogan
What I was getting to was that if Biden did, we went crazy in 2027. They got him on stem cells and they put him in a hyperbaric chamber every day for 4 hours. And he's sharp as a tiger tackle. Look at this. Look at him knife.

Mike Baker
He's sharper than his uncle Bozie was. Imagine if Trump goes after him, because there's a lot to go after. If they started uncovering the emails and the Berizma stuff and the fact that he said he never talked to any of his son's business partners, but Hunter, Biden's former partner, said that at least 20 phone calls, the fact that he allegedly used a pseudonym when he was exchanging emails, all that's nuts. All that is nuts. Well, if that.

Joe Rogan
If that was the case, if now Trump gets to go after him, this is. Now we're dealing with insanity. Now we're dealing with. Every time someone is president, they have the power to prosecute their political rivals for unnecessary means, which is the whole argument of immunity. Right.

It's not a thing. That should be a thing that decides whether or not a guy gets to run for president. No, it's a. That's a very fourth world thing. Right.

Mike Baker
I probably get in trouble for saying fourth world, people. Oh, my God. How can you denigrate the fourth world? Well.

We'Re heading in that direction. I don't know if we're first world anymore. I'm not sure where we stand. It was first world. We're not.

That's recalibrate. Maybe there are no first worlds anymore. But when you find out, I mean, we found out that the 1% of the world is $34,000 a year. When you hear that, you go, oh, that's why they're walking over here. That's why this is all gas.

Joe Rogan
That's why it's all nuts. Yeah. Like, yeah, like, this is first world. As crazy as it is. This really is first world.

Yeah. Well, look, I know I'd spent most of my life overseas, and I met a lot of people in some very bizarre environments and some in some sort of remote areas, and they all had this idea, you know, get to America, work hard, and you could do who knows what. So it's still. And it still continues to be a very dynamic and, you know, driving element of, you know, of people overseas. I think we forget that sometimes.

Right. And certainly, you know, you could look at the campus protests and go to, well, okay, maybe. Maybe, you know, the youth of today. But that's not true either. Right?

Mike Baker
Because we can fall into that trap and say, well, fucking youth of today don't understand how, you know, great, they have it and everything. Every generation has said that about their kids. Well, not only that, if you look at every generation has said that about their kids, for sure, but if you looked at this population of college kids and you could remove these kids from their friends and with total immunity and total anonymity, get their real opinions on all this stuff, I guarantee you there's a lot of kids. They say, some of this is so crazy, and you can't have opposing opinions. And we just sort of accept it and we move on.

Joe Rogan
And it's. What percentage of the kids are out there tents. In tents. What percentage of the kids are out there blocking the roads and protesting? I bet it's a small percentage.

Mike Baker
It's a very small percentage. It's a lot of people. And then there's a lot of people that go there that probably don't even go to that school. Right, right. Well, I mean, if you look at the arrest statistics so far.

Right. You know what? Say it's not, you know, completely accurate number, about 2400 arrests. Right. Campuses across the country.

Mike Baker
And the statistics are starting to show that upwards of half of those arrests, those people have no affiliation with the university. They're not college students. Right. They're outside either. Agitators, activists, however you want to refer to them.

Right. So, yeah, I agree with it. We're not talking about a lot. And again, I would argue that from the outside activists perspective, again, whether it's students for justice in Palestine or the other groups that are involved, they look at the students themselves as just window dressing and again, sort of useful idiots. But I will tell you one thing is you can get cynical sometimes about the state of the youth, however you want to call it, the ute's.

Mike Baker
But then I took my oldest boy, scooter for his candidate visit at the US Naval Academy a couple weeks ago. That is a way to strengthen or reaffirm your belief in where we are as a country. When you see the kids that are there. Holy fuck. And I probably shouldn't say that when I'm describing all the kids there, but what great kids.

Joe Rogan
They're still out there. They're still out there. And that's the point. There's a lot of them. There's a lot of them.

We were saying earlier, like, oh, the generation before, I think this is the best generation. It's just. There's so many morons. But in terms of just the sheer number of people that aren't, it'll surprise you. There's a lot of great people in this country.

We have our problems, and we're going to always have problems. But one of the ways we find solutions is by having problems. And that's one of the ways we come to understandings. And the people that are trying to stop you from discussing this, that's the real problem. The problem is not disagreement, folks.

The problem is people trying to stop people from discussing very important subjects. And that is, look, fucking all hail Elon musk, because that motherfucker stepped in, spent $44 billion, and shifted the entire.

The environment of social media is very different because X is the wild west. It's very different everywhere. Everything has to kind of relax just to kind of keep up with it, because the whole power dynamic, the whole bell curve has shifted. And now you got this one, dude, is like, I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna post ridiculous memes.

I'm gonna talk shit. I'm gonna say funny things. And remember, he was a darling of. The left for quite a while. Oh, my God.

Now he's Nazi. It's crazy. He's the worst. Having one of his cars was like a virtue badge. Like, my friend made fun of me because I had a Tesla.

I was like, dude, I don't give a fuck what you say. If you get in this car, it'll change your mind. Remember that South park episode with a Prius? Thank you. There was a whole episode about people of South park buying priuses and feeling incredibly super self righteous.

Mike Baker
It was fantastic. It was almost as good as they're smacking it in San Diego, bro. It is a thing in California. It is a real thing that some of my liberals friends that. I know what you're doing, you fucks.

Joe Rogan
You're waving a flag. That's not even a good car. You don't even like the way it looks. What are you doing? Yeah, out of here with that fucking stupid thing.

Mike Baker
But now he's. Now. Yeah, you're right. Now he said, now he's a Nazi. And see, but the Tesla thing made sense to me.

Joe Rogan
I'm like, okay, when you drive one of those things, regard. You get both things. You get to feel like you're better because I'm out here doing something amazing for the environment. And then also you get a fucking time machine. That thing moves like a time machine.

It doesn't even seem real how fast those things are. Did I tell you? Did I tell you when I rented a. I ended up with a Tesla? I think I might.

Mike Baker
I don't know if I told you about that. When I show up at a rental car place and I forget even what town I was in. And I hadn't asked for an ev, right? But I guess now they're kind of like. They're pushing them out.

Yeah. So the guy says, oh, we got a Tesla for you. I said, okay, fine. So he hands me. He hands me the card, right?

Mike Baker
That little card. Something. All right? So it's out there in whatever space. 428.

So I wander out there and I stand and it's. And it's locked, right? So now I'm standing there thinking, well, I don't have a fucking key. I don't have a clue how to open this thing, right? So a guy walks by and he goes, oh, you just tap the card on the car.

So I'm out there, like, tapping. Tapping the fucking tap on the door handle. Tapping it all over. No, he didn't tell me little. Little panel right there.

Tap it on that. So I'm tapping the fucking car. I look like a monkey fucking a football. And I'm just like, what the hell? And so finally.

Finally the guy walks over. He goes, what are you doing? I said, I'm trying to open the car. So he goes, oh, it's this. He taps it.

Car opens. I got it. And, hey, thanks very much, man. And he walks away. Do you know how he did it?

Joe Rogan
Did you pay attention? Well, I watched him, and he just hit that one spot on the little panel there by the door. And so I was like, okay, got it. So I sat down in the car. Now I don't have a clue how to start the fucker.

Mike Baker
So I had to Google. I'm saying, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna walk back all the way over there and say, look, I'm such an idiot. So I sat there and I googled. How do you start a Tesla?

Right? Right. And I had to sit and watch this stupid video. And it was fine. And then I will say, yeah, I was.

Mike Baker
I was very impressed. I loved it. It was a great experience. I'd never done that before. Right?

Yeah. Right. And then bizarre how fast they are. It was crazy. Right?

Mike Baker
Bizarre. And. And then, you know, then you got to figure out how to charge it. And that was a whole nother. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan
And you gotta make sure that there's chargers available. Right. And some places a fucking line. Yeah. You gotta wait an hour to get on that goddamn thing.

Right. And we're gonna sit in there for an hour and we're all gonna drive. Electric vehicles when you don't. We don't have the capacity yet. Right.

I mean. Go on. We don't have. The grid's not ready for it yet. No, not only that, the fucking source of the minerals is a horror story.

Mike Baker
Yeah, I meant to tell you, there's a great story in. Which was Wall Street Journal today. And I love when they have stories like this because I'm thinking, no shit, Sherlock. It's about. It's about access for the defense industry to magnets.

Rare earth magnets, which you need for everything. Submarines, f 35s, whatever. Think about what you need it for. I mean, magnets are also for, obviously, for a variety of everything else. Household appliances and shit.

92% of rare earth magnets are controlled by China right now. Right. Materials and manufacturing. And so now the US is suddenly realizing that they've got an issue. Because a while back, a handful of years ago, they put in place a law that will actually come into effect in 27 in a big way, which says, you know, no magnets, you know, from China, where the materials or the processing or manufacturer is in China.

So we don't have the capacity. Why can't we get them after 2027 from China? Well, that's, that's kind of when they said, that's it. Because we want to be in control of something this critical to a variety of things. Right?

Do we have the capability? Well, yeah, I mean, we do. Look, rare earth. It's interesting. Rare earth minerals are not.

They're not called that because of their rareness. Right. They're actually, you know, you could argue critical minerals are more difficult to get your hands on, but it's. It's the refining process that kind of makes them difficult. And we can get them.

We could. We could have this capacity. We could. We could have had the capacity for years and years and years. But it's the regulatory policies, right?

So it's like the mining industry in the States is moribund, right? It's almost dead because, you know, we put in place so many regulations that say, you can't. No, it can't do that. It's bad for the environment. We know what's worse for the environment is the way that they fucking mine these things overseas.

Right. Whether it's in China or Africa or wherever else. And so we've, we've kind of shot ourselves in the foot with this. But they're now starting to catch. Anyway, it's a good article.

Mike Baker
Wall Street Journal. So if they're going to catch on, like, where do they get these? Is there a place where they can do it where they don't ruin everything? There's a. Another article I found right below.

It's talked about mountain Pass. Yeah. Which used to be a huge place. If it was oil, it would be considered Saudi Arabia. Is that where the Donner party died?

Yeah, maybe in between. California. Novadia says right here. Is that where they died? World's number one source of rares?

Joe Rogan
Yes, bro. Started in a gold rush, and then production changed and things changed. Oh. Is it still the number one source? Mountain pass is arguably the best rare earth asset in the world.

Whoa. If it were oil, it would be Saudi Arabia. Well, let's start digging, bitches. He was talking about the refining of it, and that's, I think this article starts talking about. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
So we don't have refineries. Yeah, we need to. And so they're starting to put money into, whether it's us or the Australians or the Germans. Or whomever, they're starting to, you know, realize. But good news is they figured this out.

Mike Baker
But while we were paying attention to whatever we were focused on, China was dominating above 90% and knowing strategically, thinking ahead years ago, thinking what's going to be important. And they're not playing the same game in terms of regulations and environmental concerns and practices. And that's a good thing. We should have environmental concerns. I'm not saying that.

Joe Rogan
No, I certainly should. But China is not having these concerns. No, they don't have it. One of the wildest things that these social media bots, who knows what countries are using these, but there's a lot of them that are being run by foreign countries, and they'll a lot of times be real inflammatory about climate change. And if they're funded by China, while China is building coal plants all the time, don't they have like hundreds of new coal plants that they're building?

Mike Baker
Yeah, opening up. I forget what it was. Two a week or so new coal plants, and EPA just crushed the coal industry here over the past week and a half or so with some new regulations that are going forward in terms of what you have to reduce your emissions by nuclear. Isn't that the solution? I would say the solution is all of the above.

It's everything. And yes, eventually work towards something that makes sense on the green energy front. But, yeah, nuclear is certainly a big part of it. We get in this mindset, it's like everything else. It's got to be all this or it's got to be all that.

It's like the way that we have arguments. But, yeah, you're right. People should look at, like, if you have an environmental activist group, right. A lot of times they'll want to shut down a mining operation here in the states, right. And it looks like it's a grassroots.

It's like the campus protest. Looks like it's a grassroots thing. Oh, it's just the neighborhood organization that's against this idea. You got to dig into it a little bit, and then next thing you know, you find that there's. There's outside elements involved because it's in their best interests.

And China's figured this out. We've talked about this before. They figured out that the way to impact the US for their own good was to impact local and state regulations and regulatory policies towards things like mining. Right. Because it helps them in their cause to dominate the industry or to dominate whatever that market is that we're talking about.

So, you know, again, it's just a matter of peel back the layers. Pay attention. Think about what you're. What you're doing. I wanted.

I did want to. Oh, this article talks about the overbuilding of plants, but they're going to run less frequently to keep their capacity high. And then it's asked, like, why? And they might just be doing it just in case. Yeah, in case what?

Joe Rogan
Well, maybe that's their. They're preparing for their electric cars. By the way, China has the most advanced electric car suspension that I've ever even heard of. It's so good that you could drive over speed bumps, and you could have glasses, balance on the hood. Well, that sounds like that old Saturday Night Live skit where they said the ride was so smooth in the Lincoln, you could conduct a circumcision in the back.

Mike Baker
So they had a. They had a rabbi in the back of a Lincoln doing a circumcision to show how smooth the suspension was. Well, this makes that look like a motorbike, like a motocross bike. Holy shit. These things go over everything, and they stay flat.

Joe Rogan
They don't feel anything. The car just stays flat as it's riding over all these bumps. It's nuts. And if you see how it works, like, all the different things that are moving around inside of it, all the machinery that they've developed to have this insane suspension, it's crazy. China is, like, really innovating right now in the field of electric cars.

In the field of cars, period. But their electric cars have made massive leaps, because just a few years ago, I think Elon dismissed a lot of their electric cars, but now he's like, no, no, no. These are, like, really legitimate. And they've got their version of a Rolls Royce that's like a million dollars, and you can't even get it. Have you seen these chinese Rolls Royces?

They're insane. Yeah. And they've also. And part of that is because they've been strategic about locking up critical minerals right overseas in terms of getting in there, working with countries to lock up that market, and also to dominate completely the refining side of things. They've got the confidence in knowing where they can take this.

Mike Baker
And so this is like, okay, we can dominate the ev market because we've done the hard work ahead of time. Look at this thing. This is their chinese version of. Of a Rolls Royce. And it's supposed to be sick.

Joe Rogan
Like, you get inside of you, like, oh, my God, this car is incredible. But you can't even get them in America. Yeah, I like my jeep grand wagoneer better. Jeep grand wagoneers are great, but I would drive this dope ass chinese luxury sled. This thing looks insane.

Mike Baker
Hey, you know that. That thing you sent me about, the manta? Remember that? Yes, yes. That sea ship.

Yeah. The UFO. It's fantastic. It's. It's.

Mike Baker
It's that, you. Underwater unmanned vehicle. That's it right there. Yeah, that's. That's what I hope America's making without me knowing, with my tax dollars.

And we. And we are. Making shit like this. Look at that thing, man. That is so cool.

Joe Rogan
Like, that is if you imagined, like, what was going to be, like, the kind of technology that was in 2024, in, like, 1967, and that would be right up there. Like, a spaceship that they use in the ocean. Yeah. And it's fantastic because it is. You can manufacture thousands of them.

Right. And they're for very specific purposes. They're long duration unmanned vehicles underwater, low power. So, interesting. They're doing that thing called energy harvesting, but they're getting it from the gradient salinity in the water, the change in saltiness in the water.

Mike Baker
But it is fascinating. But part of this. Explain that. How do they do that? No, I'd like to say that I'm a gradient salinity aficionado, but I'm not.

But this is interesting because they were behind the curve in developing, particularly from a naval perspective, these new capabilities. And we're seeing how the drones and the unmanned vehicles, from a naval perspective, have impacted Ukraine. Right. And their ability to attack the russian black Sea fleet. We're seeing what the hoodies are doing with them.

Right. And we've been a little slow to the game. And so it's interesting to watch now that they're developing things like this, which you can take apart and then ship someplace. Right. It doesn't need to travel underwater to get to where it's going.

Right. You just ship it off, you put it together, you assemble it, you put it in. And it's got a variety of uses, and it can carry payloads, but it's. It is fascinating. But there's also.

Mike Baker
We talked about AI, and there's something else that DARPA's been doing, because this is a DARPA related project as well, is something called Ace. And they've just finished an AI and machine learning dogfight. They've created, like, x something. X 62, which isn't. Yeah.

Autonomous. Now, you put two guys in there. There's still pilots in this thing. It's a modified f 16, essentially, that you. You got two guys in there, but they're not flying it.

So they've conducted actual dogfight scenarios against a human crew. F 16. Right. And it's. It's remarkable.

This. This plane is using AI and machine learning to dogfight, basically. And is it winning against people? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, so you still have a couple of guys in there, but they're just there like an autonomous truck. Right. They're just there in case things go wrong. Right.

Mike Baker
They can take control. But it's. It's unbelievable. And in the sensor tests. Yeah.

How. What is the range? Well, in the virtual tests, well, it's. It's. There would be the range of an f 16.

Right. I mean, it's. You. You've got. So the.

Joe Rogan
All the. Everything that's computing, all the. That's all happening in the computer and it's learning on the plane and it's. Making decisions faster then the human pilot can do it. It's not connected to the Internet at all.

With sky. With Skynet or whatever the fuck that is called. Oh, Starlink. Starlink. Skynet, bro.

Mike Baker
Starlink. Yeah. But I wanted to bring that up because that is. That is, to me, that's remarkable and insane. That's insane that it's doing it in real time with a jet.

It's crazy, but it makes sense. There's no margin for error. It would get it perfect. And they're in the virtual tests that they did. The virtual tests.

They were undefeated against humans. Humans. Right. So, yeah. You think about what that means down the road.

Joe Rogan
Okay, so what do you think these drones are that people keep think seeing? Or these uaps, I should say drones. Some of them they think are drones. They're, like, hovering over ships, right? What do you.

Do you think these are foreign governments? If China can make electric cars that advanced, and we can make drones that are pretty fucking advanced. Yeah. What kind of shit do they have? Well, I think it's.

Mike Baker
I think you're right. I think most of the. Most of that UAP sightings, and I think it's important to. For them. I'm glad the government and the Defense Department has finally at least come forward to some degree, to say, look, we've got an interest in this.

We want to investigate. We want to know what these things are, these sightings that we can't readily identify off the bat. Look, we were tricked out in the korean war. The Russians designed the MiG, whatever it was, the MiG 15, maybe, and we had no idea, right? So they come out, they roll out the MiG 15 against.

We were still using old rotor aircraft from propeller aircraft from World War two in Korea at the outset. And we didn't know that the Russians had advanced materials science to the point that they had, so that they could build something like this. So it would be insane for us to think somehow that the Chinese, who have proven themselves to be brilliant at reverse engineering other people's technology, haven't figured out something else. So, yeah, there's always this game of trying to understand how advanced they are. And I suspect some of the UAP sightings are definitely probably chinese.

I don't think the Russians necessarily, but not that they wouldn't try or not trying, but I suspect the Chinese are further advanced on this, and they've stolen a lot of technology from us over the years, and we've talked about that. But I think a number of the UIP sightings that get listed are just that. But that's why they do it. That's why they have an office now that. That they've admitted to that investigates, because it's a national security issue.

You've got to know, if a hostile state has created something that we are not aware of, propulsion or material science or whatever it may be, how much. Of that stuff could be kept secret, and for how long? Do you think, is it equivalent, in terms of the physicists that are working on this in China versus the ones that are working on it over here? Is it possible that somebody made some sort of a propulsion breakthrough? Well, yeah, anti gravity or something.

Joe Rogan
That was the thing. We had this lady that went missing. You know that story? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

She was. But she was working on an anti gravity device, and she back. Went back to China for a little bit. And then, yeah, back here, there's been. Some talk about, you know, there's some various people, Salvatore pace and some others, who have been working on, supposedly on things, you know, similar, you know, various propulsion systems, anti gravity.

Mike Baker
You know, how do you. You know, how do you change the laws of physics? Right. And I don't know that if. I don't know how long that could be kept secret for.

Right. Because. Could you keep it secure for a little bit, though? Yeah. Yeah, you could.

Mike Baker
But at some point, you know, it's gonna get rolled out and, you know, someone's gonna get wind of something. It's human nature. And we're always trying. We're always working, just like the Chinese always working against us. We're always working to understand what they got.

And so, you know, I'm not a big believer that, you know, you keep secrets of an immense nature like that for a long period of time. Well, if they did keep it a secret, if that's what the Tic tac thing was. That was 2004. Yeah. It's hard to imagine them having that complex propulsion system that's so alien from what we currently know and have that 20 years ago and no one hears about it.

Yeah, I know. I know. And that's. That is long time. That is the.

I've been in conversations with some folks who want to do a new series on uaps. Right. And, you know, I keep coming back to that incident. Right. Yeah.

Favor and the folks that were involved in those sightings as one of those things. Right. Like, if I had to, you know, because a lot of things can be explained away. That one still is a tough one. That's a tough one.

Yeah. There were a lot of eyes on target radars and the wingman. And there were. There was a lot of things here that just didn't add up. The physical movement of it.

Joe Rogan
If all the machinery works, if all the sensors work, if all the detection equipment, all the. If all that stuff is accurate, that thing's doing something that no one's ever even seen. Oh, no. Absolutely no sign of propulsion system, speed of movement, change of direction. Everything was so bizarre.

Mike Baker
But that's, again, what we're looking for, and we're moving in. Eventually, we get in that direction. Right. Eventually you have an explainable technology that could create something like that. But back then, like you said, maybe.

Joe Rogan
It was 2004, so long ago to technology. Yeah, no, it. I know, right. It sounds crazy, but 20 years ago, it was a fucking totally different world. Well, there's that exponential advancement of technology as you go along and as you create things, but.

Which is really crazy if that was ours. So if we. If we had something like that in 2004, who. Where what? Right.

Mike Baker
How much money? Where'd you get the smart guys? I don't think that would have been the case, because I think that. That we wouldn't have heard about it, because I think they would have had a classified briefing with Fraver and say, you saw nothing. Don't worry about it.

You know, it's all. Do you think that's the case, or. Do you think they allow some talk about it? Because a lot of the talk is nutty. Anyway, a lot of these people that believe in UFO's.

You're right. I am open minded about the idea to a certain extent, but a lot of these people that they could be telling you Bigfoot stories. It's like this is the same kind of folks. There's people that just see shit, and it makes. It makes their life way more interesting.

Joe Rogan
And then there's people that have really seen those things. I've. Good friends that have seen things. Bizarre things. Yeah, you've talked about.

How did that move? Talked about that. Yeah. And I. And I grabbed.

Mike Baker
Talked to a couple of pilots that were out in Iraq, and they said we were flying nighttime, saw shit that we couldn't explain. We had no idea what the fuck it was over the skies of Iraq while we were on a sortie. And so, yeah, I'm. Well, then it gets to, like, Tucker Carlson territory. He believes they're, like, spiritual beings.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure he thinks they're, like. Interdimensional travelers or something. Skinwalker ranch.

Mike Baker
And if that's true. That's true. Then the world just got so much weirder. Imagine us trying to deny that this whole time. But that's really what was going on.

Yeah. Although, you know what? It would help to explain a lot of things, maybe. And we. At least it wouldn't seem like we're, you know.

Mike Baker
I don't know that. Yeah. I'm not a. You know me. I'm not.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe that because, again, I. Going back to your point, I don't believe that people can keep secrets for a long period of time. Right. But what about the Kennedy papers?

Well, there is that. Okay, all right. Well. Or the one that we talked about this before. Martin Luther King?

Yeah, that's the one. That's the one that, if you're gonna really dig in, I just. You're never gonna shift me off the position that there were state, local officials, federal, whatever involved in that. It just doesn't make sense. Still, some conspiracies are real.

Exactly. Yeah. Some of them are real. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And it's. And it's. It's. Yeah. You go back to the Uap thing.

It'd be insane to say that there's no such thing. My favorite one is Rawswell one. Because if that one's real. Roswell. Crash of 47.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. That one. I'm not. Yeah, I don't know.

Mike Baker
I don't know. Seriously, I don't know. You're looking at me like. You just looked at me like, you know. Come on.

You know. Wouldn't tell us. That's the problem. Or would I? No, you wouldn't.

Joe Rogan
You wouldn't be able to. Yeah, but maybe if you wanted to give me more disinformation.

Mike Baker
There'S a whole segment of society out there that believes that I'm just here to push disinformation. That's my job. Well, you're here because you're a nice guy and you're a smart guy and you actually know what you're talking about. And so I don't. I know what I read and I go, oh, my God, what does that mean?

Joe Rogan
And so I can have you in here and you can explain things from a guy who actually understands the conflict. You had the best explanation of what's going on in the Middle east I've heard yet. Well, thank you. I appreciate. Do you mind if I do?

Mike Baker
Now, on the heels of that, do you mind if I do a little shameless marketing? Oh, do some shameless marketing. Okay, so, you know, we've got the president's daily brief, the podcast, and that started up in September. It's done remarkably well despite me being the host. Yeah.

And so it's every morning, every afternoon, we touch on, we hit the top issues, critical issues of the day, international stories, conflicts, whatever. And because it's done well, that's the weekdays that they're going to launch a weekend version, extended weekend version on our YouTube channel. So we're going to video. So starting Saturday, May 18, we're going to take the PDB. It's going to still be during the weekdays on Spotify and all your other podcast platforms.

But then on Saturday, May 18, we start with this, the situation Report. It'll be an extended version on YouTube with video. We're going to have guests, which leads me to my question of how do you interview guests? But it's going to be great news commentary. We're going to have some very interesting people.

So same idea, touching on critical issues and stories. We're going to just stick with the facts. We're going to stay away from opinion, which I think is one of the reasons why the PDB has done well, is that it's 20 minutes in the morning, ten minutes in the afternoon. We hit the facts, try to stay away from opinion. Occasionally I might make some stupid remark, but for the most part, it's just a little bit of context, and then you get on your way.

Bob's your uncle. A little bit of personality flavored in. With a little personality. Yeah. I try not to inject too much because nobody wants that.

But, yeah, it's good. People need to hear these kind of balanced perspectives on things. I think it's very important that you provide it because you're actually a person who really understands these conflicts because most of us, it's the whole idea behind it. So alien. Like, what the hell's going on over there?

Joe Rogan
Like, it takes so long to try to penetrate to just like, who's funding that? And then Iran is doing what. And then, so why do they want that? Oh, these accords. And what do the accords mean?

And what happens? Oh, okay. All that stuff is fucking complicated. And it's hard to find, like, a singular source where you could just sit down and read it all and have it all make sense to you. Well, and I think that's, that was the reason why we talked about that.

Mike Baker
That was the reason why I said, okay, I agreed to do it, was because they said, look, we want to stick with the news. Right? We want to try to get back to the old days. Here's the news. And again, it's always going to, there's going to be a little context or analysis in there, but for the most part, just give people what's happening.

Tell them what's happening. Don't tell them how to think about it necessarily. Just tell them what's happening. And the president's Daily Brief's got a great, it's got a great staff. You know, it's not like I'm, you know, doing everything.

I'm just sort of like the monkey crashing the cymbals together. This is a very unfortunate sort of combining of the people that give you the news with people that think they're activists or people that think that it's very important that you stick to a very specific narrative and ignore information that's contrary to what your belief system says. Right. Well, if all you do is just say, here's what's happening, here's what we know is happening, and you don't try to, again, you don't try to tell people what to think, and you don't try to say, okay, we're going to approach it from a particular point of view and leave out half of what's happening. Yeah.

So just, and it's like that old thing, you know, there's, there's still some news outlets out there that do a good job of just presenting facts, but most of them, you know, like you pointed, there's, most of them are opinion based. Right. And, you know, if you look at, if you sort of look at the, there's a survey that regularly looks at the news in terms of objectivity. Right. And it changes somewhat.

And interestingly, your, your show doesn't change much. Right. It's always kind of, it's right up there in terms of. Because you're not. You know, other news outlets disappear off of there, or they change position in terms of relative objectivity.

Right. But yours has been very consistent. But you've got outfits like Fox News or CNN, and they'll drop off the radar. Right. Because they become nothing but opinion.

Right. For a period of time. Then maybe they self correct and they realize we need more news, we need more facts. So they'll come back on the survey and come up higher in terms of relative credibility of. Of actual news.

Mike Baker
So, anyway, yeah, it goes back to our original story. Everybody's got to be a little bit more careful because it's getting more dangerous out there in terms of disinformation. It's getting weird. It's getting weird when we've talked about this before, but it's an important number. This guy who used to work for the FBI, who analyzed Twitter and said he believed that it was as much as 80% of them were bots.

Seriously? Yeah. I did not pull that. Pull that up, Jamie. It's crazy, because he might be right, man.

Joe Rogan
Like, there's. There's really sophisticated ones. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, there's.

And then there's ones that are very crude. There's ones that. It's just like, a bunch of letters and a bunch of numbers. Right. And it's someone just retweeting, like, patriotic things and, you know.

Okay, that. I know what that is. Top cybersecurity expert claims that more than 80% of Twitter accounts are probably bots. And this is 2022. Yeah.

So this was in the process of Elon buying this. All this stuff was going on where. That's interesting. Yeah. They were looking at this, and they were saying, like, when did he buy it?

That's part of the catalyst, I thought, because he wanted to find out. Right. Many were bots. Right. But they.

Joe Rogan
They told him it was 5%, I think. You mean what's his name, the guy that ran Twitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think Elon felt like they didn't base it on enough of an analysis. They.

Based on a small number of accounts. I can't imagine it's 80%. Right? I can't imagine. It's crazy.

Mike Baker
It does sound insane. I'm sure it's higher than 5%. Sure sounds higher than 5%. Tweeted Musk along with the tagging, the news article. Okay, so Dan woods, global head of intelligence and cybersecurity company F five, who spent more than 20 years with the US federal law enforcement and intelligence, intelligence organizations told the Australian that more than 80% of Twitter accounts are probably bots.

Joe Rogan
So. Nuts. Yeah. It's somewhere between five and 80. Even if he's halfway.

Right? Even if it's 50%. Let's just say 50. 40. Let's even say 40% is crazy.

Mike Baker
Right. 40% of our bots. But that is. That's probably, you're probably getting to accurate because I think just the Chinese alone. Right.

And the Russians, they invest an enormous amount of resource into this because they know it's effective. Right. And they know how damaging it can be. And why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you?

Joe Rogan
Why wouldn't you in this cyber era? You know, it's a way to influence people's opinions. It really is. It's crazy how well it works. If you could just get, like, arguments going on Twitter.

You know, people get engaged in those are. They need to, like, start a fire and run away from it. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask one more question?

Mike Baker
Yeah. What is your. What would be your best advice for interviewing people? Because, like I said, we're starting the show and it's gonna have guests on it. Do you have one thing that you've learned over the years in terms of talking to people and getting the best out of what they say?

Joe Rogan
I think it's just a numbers thing. I don't think it's one thing. I think it's like everything else. Like, you, you realize when you're being clunky, like, I do it all the time. I realize, like, yeah, I interrupted too quick.

Like, I didn't know, like, when to step in, when not to. It happens all the time. And so you always got to, like, try to get the most out of your guest. That's my. My idea when I go into a conversation is I want to talk to, and we're going to talk to each other, but I'm just trying to get the most out of you.

You know, I'm trying to encourage what you're saying. Just, like, ask more questions. I'm trying to just genuinely engage with what you're saying and get the most out of you. The problem with a lot of people when they host things is generally, like, you want to talk, and so if you want to talk, you start talking, and then sometimes you talk too much, and then the guest doesn't talk enough. And it's like, it's a balancing act.

But I always go into it, like, with the intention of, like, whatever this person's doing, like, help them make it the best version of this discussion that I can provide. Okay. Yeah, no, I know what you mean about the cause. Like, you go on a news show and the question is five minutes, and you think, okay, well, that question includes a lot of the talking points that you producers asked me to send to you. So.

Mike Baker
All right, then. Okay. No, that's. Yeah, that makes sense. Those shows are so limited, man.

Joe Rogan
It's a real problem. Because if this is how most people consume complex information, it's too limited. Just your explanation of all the shit that's going on with Gaza and Israel, just that alone, that had to take 15 minutes, right? Yeah, yeah. And you're making these, like, summaries that are easily digestible.

Mike Baker
Well, yeah. And they'll say, okay, you got, you know, we got 30 seconds left. How are they gonna solve the problem in Gaza? Jesus Christ. So crazy.

Joe Rogan
It's just like that format of a limited amount of time to talk about complex things in this day and age. It just doesn't really make sense anymore. But it's how people. I mean, whether it's that or whether it's the. You know, I get my news from TikTok.

Mike Baker
I get my news from X. I get. No, that's the way to get it. Tick tock's the way to get it. They're going to be the most honest.

Joe Rogan
There's definitely. When you find out the difference between american tick tock and chinese tick tock, Chinese TikTok's doing it. Right. It's all, like, science achievements, athletic performances, martial arts. Yeah.

Mike Baker
There's no way that Xi regime would never let their youth get on American TikTok. You think you could be a dude giving makeup tutorials and Chinese TikTok? They'll fucking find you. They'll find you. No, it's true.

And so that's always a thing when I talk to my kids about it and, you know, I always tell them, don't use TikTok. Don't get on TikTok. You know, it's. But they're gonna do it. They're gonna do it.

Joe Rogan
Their friends are on it. Everybody's on it. It's crack. Yeah, it is. Those kids are cracked out.

Mike Baker
It's an incredible time suck. Which, again, they know, right. The chinese regime knows. They understand this. But think about tick tock in terms of its disinformation capabilities going into an election, right, and the White House has a problem, right, because the Biden campaign team has been using tick tock, and at the same time, they're trying to say we shouldn't use tick tock I think it's a danger.

It's a national security issue, but we found it very effective for reaching the young market. Right. And so they have no grounds to stand on when they talk about a national security issue. They got a problem. They got to figure that one out.

Again, not to get overly political. They're dancing with the devil. Yeah, you made a deal with she. She. Sorry.

Joe Rogan
But if it's. That's the thing is if, like, there's this little dance and they can make you more effective and make your opponents less effective, that's a crazy manipulation of the way people think about things. And you don't think that that's true, but it's just like, what percentage of, what side are you getting? If you're getting like 80% of your information that's very specific to one ideology, that's not good for anybody. And kids aren't thinking about that.

Mike Baker
It's been a progression. Right. It used to be from the Daily show with Jon Stewart. That's where young people getting their news. Right now they've aged out, and now young people are turning to TikTok and they're getting their news and they're not thinking, okay, of course they're not thinking about it.

They're not thinking, I wonder if the chinese regime is constructing this in a certain way. But of course they are. But of course they understand, and that's really the danger. People talk about the danger of TikTok as their ability to harvest personal information. And that's a problem to some degree.

But the bigger problem is 170 million american users of TikTok being vulnerable and reachable by a chinese regime that does not have our best interests at heart by any means. So that's the bigger issue, I think, rather than the harvesting of personal data, which Amazon and Google and everybody else howdy. Has it, right? They got all that shit. So it's not, you know, yes, it's a hostile regime and yes, they're harvesting your data.

But, you know, I think it's more of the, I think it's more of the disinformation campaign and the potential for that. That is the, is the problem with. With TikTok, because if you can't control, like if rather if you can control, if you can control exactly what percentage of stuff gets out, like, if someone, if you can limit someone's reach, like if someone posts something and it's some right wing philosophy, and they post that and they immediately tag it as such and limit its reach, but then you take the other one and you expand its reach, whatever the contrary position is, and you promote it and you push it out everywhere. How much of an effect does that have on young people? Well, that's the whole point of the game anyway, is, you know, you're suppressing and you're promoting, and again, you're doing it to an audience for the most part, that is very vulnerable to it.

And so, yeah, again, I don't know that they're going to ban TikTok. Somebody's going to come in and view that as an opportunity buy. So they will be able to sell it, even though right now Bytedance is saying, absolutely not, we're not going to sell it. I think they probably will. I don't see them banning it from App Stores.

So, I mean, think about the angst that would create amongst the tweens. And the fear is the language that's being used here, though, too. Right. That this could be interpreted as the ability to censor other social media sites. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan
And that you really can't give the government that power, especially based on what they saw in the Twitter files. Yeah, yeah. You can't. Okay, press. Yeah.

If you're. If you're looking to suppress accurate information because you don't like what you think that's gonna do for an election, like that doesn't seem like you should be able to do that. This seems like that should be. That's not good. Don't do that.

If you develop an organization that is allowed to do that to all of social media, by law, you're in territory that's real slippery now because it's just so ripe for corruption. Right. And it always goes back to this, which you talked about before, which is this idea that, well, okay, if one president can do this to another former president, then the next one goes. The next one goes. And it's the same problem.

Mike Baker
Right. Hey, it maybe sounds good to us right now to censor something or to suppress something, but we're not going to be in charge forever unless they figured that out how they can be in charge forever. It's so dangerous. It's so dangerous that it's so ubiquitous, it's so everywhere. And you don't know how much of what people are seeing is being manipulated.

Right. Well, again, you know, not to beat a dead horse, but, you know, if people could take away one idea, it's that you gotta. It's incumbent upon you, and, you know, whether it's for you or whether it's for the sake of your kids to be curious and to actually make the fucking effort to understand what it is that you're seeing and reading and hearing and, yes, it takes time, and maybe it sounds daunting and you'd rather have the government do it. Right, but that's not a good idea. I think it comes down to individual responsibility, like a lot of things in life.

Mike Baker
And I don't know that I'm optimistic about that as being the solution, but I don't see another way around it. We can detect, we can create apps to protect and be proactive. You can do all those things which are incredibly important, but ultimately it comes down to the individual. And if they don't take it upon themselves. Yeah.

To go back to our earlier point, then, you know, we're fucked. Yeah. Well, I have hope. Look at you. Look at you, glass half full.

Joe Rogan
I'm a half full kind of guy these days. I feel like that's because you got kids. It's also because I know that most people are good people and that I think people get swept up in madness and I think they get swept up in tribalism. And that's a real problem with someone that's as polarizing as Trump. Right?

Yeah, it's a real problem because you have to accept the nonsense that Biden is. Okay. If you're on the left, like, both of them are like, they lock up like the fucking dolphins versus the raiders. And people get on teams, man. They're like, fuck the dolphins.

Yeah. That's what it is. It's just people. People get super fucking tribal. It's in our nature.

Joe Rogan
We have to fight to avoid it. Yeah. And the more extreme that you get on one side, the more extreme the other side gets. And they. Because they think, look, and again, you get this notion that I'm saving the country.

Mike Baker
One side or the other, right. Both sides, the hard edges of both sides feel like they're the ones that are trying to save the country. Yeah. And they have to win just like they want the Yankees to win. Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan
It's really like that. It becomes the number one team. It's the biggest sport. And, you know, that's why it's important to have a big personality. It's part of the whole stupidity of it all.

And AI is going to save us from that. You think that? Yeah. You don't believe, you know, much better government. It's going to be a much better government.

It won't even be controlled at all by people. It runs on its own algorithm that it created after it realized that's the flaws in the way human beings are processing reality. Do you know what the US government's trying to do right now? They're trying to get China and Russia to sign up to an agreement, essentially an international treaty that would ensure that AI does not alone run nuclear weapons systems. Right.

Mike Baker
And there is no treaty that prevents that right now. There's no treaty that prevents taking the humans out of that decision making process. Oh, my God. So, I mean, the Russians did during the Soviet Union days. So they're gonna be playing like some kind of crazy world war chess game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. With supercomputers. Yeah. But right now the US is committed to this idea that we're not going to take the human out, but the Russians and Chinese have not. Then no one's gonna commit to that.

Joe Rogan
Why don't you commit to the best weapon of all time? We already said that these fighter pilots. Exactly. Can't compete with these things that are AI controlled. That's nuts.

Yeah, it's a. It's. It's. It's a problem. I was about to say, there's a statement of the obvious.

Joe Rogan
Top Gun three is fucked. What are they gonna do? I did not see. What is Top Gun three gonna do? I didn't see Top Gun.

Well, you're un american, sir. Did you watch it? I watched a little bit of it.

I wasn't in the mood to lock in that vibration. I know, I know. It's a fun kind of movie, though. It was. It was a one time for me.

It was. Top Gun was a kind of a one time. Top Gun was fucking great. It was a great movie. It was great goose.

God. Yeah, yeah. But. And I. I will say I'm very impressed with Carl.

He. I haven't heard him snore this show. He's kept it together today. God, he's a cute dog. He's cutest.

Yeah. All right, all right. Anything else? No, man. I sufficiently scared the shit out of us.

Mike Baker
I'm sorry about that. You always do. But again, we have hope. This is always a pleasure, man. I just.

Joe Rogan
I love this. And, you know, I've said it before, but, you know, the time flies by. You sit down, you think, I don't know. I don't know if I've got enough to say in the time here. And you always, you know.

Yeah. You always take it someplace like the Kendrick Lamar thing. I still fucking worried about that. Yeah. I hope they hug it out.

All right. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you people. Bye.

Joe Rogan
Bye.

#2147 - Mike Baker

Primary Topic

Episode Summary

Main Takeaways

Episode Chapters

1: AI and Misinformation

2: Cultural Differences and Disguises

3: Parenting and Intelligence

4: Political Misinformation

Actionable Advice

About This Episode

People

Companies

Books

Guest Name(s):

Content Warnings:

Transcript