#2143 - Tulsi Gabbard

Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

Tulsi Gabbard
Cheers. Here we go, my friend. This is the second time we ever worked out together. I know. I feel great.

Joe Rogan
It was awesome, right? It was great. It's a great way to get the day started. It was perfect, actually. We do these, the comedian boot camps.

So we did it today. We did it with Hasan and Derek and Shane. Shane Gillis. And we have fun. So you get the workout in and you talk a lot of shit and you get silly.

It's really fun. It's like real silly. We have a good time. Yeah. Thanks for the invite.

It was a pleasure. I've been on the road for, I don't know, for weeks. And so if you're lucky, you get a decent hotel gym, but you gotta be really creative. Yeah, most of them, the best they'll have are dumbbells. And, you know, that's it.

I just realized you're the second celebrity to do that with us. And the second Hawaiian. Cause the rock did it. Samoan. There's something going on.

Tulsi Gabbard
Samoan pride here. Something going on with Hawaiians coming in. We'll have to figure out, you know, Max Holloway is hawaiian and samoan, too. He didn't work out, though, Max. Last time he was here, he was just off of his win.

He gets a break after that, man. Wow. Yeah, take some time off, bro. I was telling you, like the sauna, I am definitely from the islands because I'm okay with heat. So 20 minutes in the sauna was good.

It was challenging, but it was good. The cold, however, that ice bath, I've done that like a quick polar plunge, briefly jumping in, jumping out, but. And that one was at the lowest setting in terms of the jets of water. So what we have is called a blue cube. And blue cube is the type of cold plunge that has an engine in it that you can turn on to higher levels of waves.

Joe Rogan
So if you turn it to the highest level, it's just rushing at you like a river. Is that better or worse? Horrible. Okay. It's horrible because you never develop a thermal barrier.

Tulsi Gabbard
Okay? So if you can just like, cold, all cold, warm water immersion is very good for you. It's good for cold. Shock proteins, norepinephrine, mood stabilization, makes you feel better. All those things are good.

Joe Rogan
But the still cold is much more tolerable for whatever reason. I don't know what's better for you. See, that's the question. Is it just as good and more tolerable or is it better to be more to suffer for the full three minutes? Because if you turn that bitch, suffer more.

Tulsi Gabbard
Is the benefit proportional to the suffering is really the question. I'm not sure if you suffer more more benefit, or if there's a point where you're actually hurting your body. Right. You know, like, maybe. Maybe there's a point.

Joe Rogan
I mean, obviously, if you stay in the cold water too long, you'll die. That's what hypothermia is. But there's a level where if you just get a few minutes in, it's really good for you. So I don't know if it's better if you're miserable. Yeah, right?

I don't know. But if you want to test your mind, that blue cube is the one to do. Because that sucker gets fast. That sucker gets like a river. So you're just laying in there, and.

Tulsi Gabbard
It'S like salt of cold water. The moment it sucks when you climb in, that moment never changes. That's the difference. Cause in a regular cold plunge, after a while, you develop, like, this thermal barrier. And even though it sucks, it only sucks, like, 80% of what it sucked when you first got in.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, with the blue cube, it's 100%. Sucked the whole ride. Sucky, sucks, suck, suck. It sucks. So it sounds like you gotta try it at least once and figure it out.

Just doing it the way you did it for three minutes. Like I said, the first time I did it, I did, like, a minute and 24 seconds. I was like, I couldn't chicken out in front of all the guys. You know what I mean? When Hassan says, well, I did it.

Tulsi Gabbard
Three minutes to show up for the rocks. Like, okay, I'm not gonna be the one who chickens out at a minute. That's not an option. Well, you did it. You did it.

No, it was good. It was good. It was very challenging. It was good. We don't have a cold punch.

It's like, okay, I'm not gonna go and find bags of ice every single day from 711 and dump in the bathtub. So when I can, I just, like, dump my face in ice cubes and water. That's good, too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that'll wake you up.

Yep. All that stuff's good. There's some pretty reasonably priced options for coolers that you could actually do in a bathtub. Now, there's a bunch of different ways to do it, but if you got the scratch, like, one of these blue cubes or something similar. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
Morosco makes a really good one, too. They're really good. Yeah, I can see. I can see how that feel. The after feeling gets kind of addictive.

I'm sure someone will reach out to you, try to get you to use their shit. It's very good, though. But it's also like the camaraderie, the fun. For sure. Have fun.

Listen to music, for sure. Laugh a lot. Exactly. Yeah, this is perfect. Yeah.

It's a good way to get a podcast started. Yeah. Oh, and by the way, congratulations to the marijuana enjoyers of the world. Cause the DEA officially rescheduled marijuana to. They're gonna reschedule it to schedule three.

Tulsi Gabbard
Wow. Which still, it shouldn't be illegal. Yes, we know that. I agree. But baby steps.

Joe Rogan
You know, the fact that it's making progress at all just shows that the collective will of the people is being heard at least somewhat. There was. I'm trying to remember who it was. Somebody was telling me that, like, the decriminalization crew, they gave an american flag made out of hemp to a member of Congress to fly above the Capitol, because it's a normal thing. Like, you know, I would get people when I was in Congress calling and saying, hey, it's, you know, my friend is retiring from the military from 30 years.

Tulsi Gabbard
Can you fly a flag in honor of him or her? And so you get a little certificate with it. And there are many flags that go up and down every day that are given as gifts to people. So someone did it with flag, american flag, made out of hemp. And apparently it caused major problems within the DEA and within the administration, saying, how dare you?

How could anyone allow this to happen? It made zero sense whatsoever. But it just pointed to the backwards mindset and thinking and the sensitivity within the DEA and the government around cannabis, hemp, marijuana. It just seems a massive lack of education, too. It's not as simple as, you know, you're thinking of it in connection to marijuana.

Joe Rogan
It's. Hemp is a commodity that has existed forever. In fact, canvas that writers paint on or that painters, artists paint on, that. The original word canvas came from cannabis. It was made out of hemp.

Tulsi Gabbard
Interesting. They made hemp. Paper is a better paper. They made hemp clothing. It's far superior to cotton.

Joe Rogan
The only reason why they. This is where it gets weird. There's a bunch of things that took place that took hemp away from being a common source of paper and clothing. But one of them was making slavery illegal, because before they came out with the decorticator, the primary way they used to process hemp fiber was really painstaking. Cause it's an incredible plant.

It's a very light plant, but it's insanely durable. Like, hemp clothing is so much more. Like, I have a hemp jiu jitsu ghee from Datsura, and that sucker never rips my cotton ghee. They're good for, like, you know, you wear em for, like, six months a year, they're gonna. Shit starts going.

Even, like, really strong, stable cotton threads start going. These hemp geese are, like. They're invincible. It's crazy. And hemp paper is so difficult to tear.

It's like a completely different kind of pace. It makes no sense. It's an amazing rope. It's like you could use it to make concrete. They make hemp.

Have you seen that? Where they make houses with it? Yeah. My dad is a state senator in Hawaii. He's the chair of the agriculture committee, and for years, he's been the state's biggest advocate for hemp as an economic driver and to try to help revive agriculture in Hawaii.

Tulsi Gabbard
And so he's talked endlessly about the houses and just everything, all of the different benefits of hemp. He's got some hemp aloha shirts and the whole deal. This thing that you're talking about, though, the federal government and the classification is the biggest barrier to this actually becoming a really viable and thriving industry in our country, because people are growing crops of hemp, but they've got to go through all of this crazy THC testing. And I've talked to people who are farmers and business people who are investing in this, and they've had to throw, like, entire crops away because of, I don't know the details about the testing, but it just, you know, one plus one doesn't equal two. When you look at the reality of the benefits of hemp and the farming process and the concerns that they have within the DEA, so is the concern.

Joe Rogan
If it has any level of THC at all, becomes illegal, even if you're just processing it as a commodity and you're not. Not using it. Right, correct. They understand, like, it's very valuable as a commodity. Yes.

It's so stupid. This whole thing is stupid because we're always concerned about, and rightly so, about cutting down forests to make paper. Right, right. Well, guess what? Hemp paper, you can grow an entire, like, first of all, it's much more viable.

You have much more product, it's much more durable, and you can regrow it quick. Exactly. It just grows right back again, whereas trees takes years and years to grow them back hemp, you got another season. WHOOP. Okay, here's the hemp plant.

Grows crazy fast. Super light, super durable. Just got to think about it as a commodity and stop connecting it to marijuana. Exactly. You're going, well, this is invaluable because this could solve a lot of our problems, especially with deforestation.

And then if you look at it for building materials, like, wait, this might be the greatest building material we can use. It's incredible insulation. It's very durable and strong and again, renewable, like, instantaneously, it grows so quick. Yeah. What's interesting, I mean, for us in Hawaii, I mean, tourism is the biggest economic driver we have.

Tulsi Gabbard
And every time there's in the post 911, when people weren't traveling so much during COVID when everything shut down, businesses go out of business, small businesses are driven out because if they don't have that driver. So the conversation always comes up about, okay, well, we've got to diversify our economy. And this is one of those areas that has huge potential for a small island state like ours in Hawaii. And what's interesting is Mitch McConnell, I believe he's from Kentucky, their state is also a state that is promoting hemp as a major agriculture driver. So there's opportunity there.

But it requires a lot more education from those both in the administration and in Congress to actually take down those barriers and allow it to actually truly be an industry in America. When we first started selling hemp protein on it, we used to have to get it from Canada. Hmm. You can sell it in America, can't grow it here. I was like, what?

Joe Rogan
It's just food. It's just hemp seeds. It's really good for you. It's like full of amino acids and rich in protein. And they're like, no, can't grow it.

That shit's illegal. You know what's nuts too, is the military. People who are on active duty in the military, they can't put hemp seeds in their smoothie. They can't use any CBD bomb that you can buy at the freaking gas station or anything at all because CBD bomb. Yeah, CBD bomb.

Tulsi Gabbard
Anything that has your energy drink that. Has CBD till cliff cannot. Not allowed. You could seriously get punished. So if they catch, you are caught.

Joe Rogan
Are they testing blood for CBD? They're not testing blood for CBD. So it's just illegal. So if you get caught with the product. If you get caught with the product.

Tulsi Gabbard
Correct. And their fear is like, you're gonna piss hot because, you know, you take the random urinalysis tests and everything else, but it. So that I laughed, you know? I mean, again, it's lack of education, it's fear, and it's like, well, this is bound by the federal government, so the military must comply. But at the same time, the guy within the army, the civilian who was putting out this policy, he also said, you're not allowed to eat anything with Poppy.

You can't eat a poppy seed muffin I was gonna bring you because you might piss high. Well, you will. Yeah, you will. You can go to Dubai. You go places where it's, like, seriously strict Saudi Arabia.

Joe Rogan
They'll test you for heroin. You'll test positive for heroin. Yeah. Poppy seeds are rough. That's a scary one.

It's like, wait a minute. Bagel. Poppy seeds. Those things are making piss hot for heroin. Lemon poppy seed muffin.

What they tell you, if you go in for a drug test, do not eat poppy seeds before you go. It's crazy. Like, what? Bagels? How bad is your test?

Tulsi Gabbard
Right? How bad is that tested at the point? How bad? Technology, biology, like, all this stuff. You guys can't get a better test.

Joe Rogan
So stupid. You're gonna put someone in a cage for eating a bagel? Yeah, but, like, for a guy in the military, that could be the end of your freaking career. You'd be kicked out for it. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, just being at a party and people are smoking, and, you know, you get secondhand smoke, and you'll test positive. Those tests are probably pretty rough because people definitely get high from secondhand smoke. I've seen it happen before. I've seen sober people go into a room that's filled with pot, and everyone comes out, like, a little loopy. Like, you're breathing in the same air.

You're breathing in pot air. I used to have a dog that I got. She was astray, and she was a little prone to anxiety as it is. And if she was in the room when people smoked pot, she would get high, and she'd get paranoid. She'd start hiding under tables.

I was like, aw. Lucy was sad, not good. You didn't get the chill factor. She was like, the world is dangerous, you know? She used to live on the street, man.

So it's just. I guess it's a good thing that they've scheduled it schedule three. But for sure, forget about the drug part. They should be encouraging hemp production in this country. It's an amazing food source.

Hemp has all of the essential amino acids. It's very rich in protein, it's easily digestible. As far as, like, plant based protein, for me, is my favorite one and the easiest one to digest. You just, like, easy. It goes down smooth, it's no problem at all.

And it's very good for you. Yeah. And CBD is very good for you. But forget about all that just for a commodity and for building, construction and clothing. You know, the first draft of the Declaration of Independence was written on hemp.

Tulsi Gabbard
I've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it was. It was used for everything.

Yeah. It was used for ropes, for sailboats. They made sails out of it all. That's the canvas that was all made out of cannabis. Initially, it was all hemp.

It's just. I mean, I introduced legislation in Congress to deschedule it completely because it shouldn't be. The wildest thing is how it happened in the first place. The wildest thing, how it happened in the first place is because it was all William Randolph Hearst and Harry Anslinger. And so what happened was William Randolph Hearst, who owned Hearst publications, he also owned not just newspapers, but he owned paper mills, and he owned forests.

Joe Rogan
So he had all these forests that they would cut down the wood and use it to make paper. Well, if they were going to transfer over to hemp, this is going to be very costly. And the COVID of Popular Science magazine in, I think it was 1930. Find out what year that cover was. It says hemp, the new billion dollar crop, because they came up with a new machine, and it was called a decorticator.

And this new device was a device that allows you to effectively process the hemp fiber in a much quicker and easier way. So it's this machine that grinds it up. And so once they do this, they go, oh, boy. We figured out they've solved this problem of hemp, where it's really, it's very durable, but it's really difficult to break down to the actual fibers. So 1938.

Tulsi Gabbard
Oh, wow. So this comes out in 1938. Hemp, the new billion dollar crop. And so it's the COVID of popular science magazine. Do you see?

Joe Rogan
Do they have the COVID so you can see what it says? Oh, just an article today about this somewhere. Oh, wow. Popular mechanics magazine. I'm sorry.

So the article's from 1938. And so when they come out with this, they talk about this new invention. See if you could find a photo of the decorticator, because it's like this grindy kind of thing. Is that what it looks like? Hemp, the new billion dollar crop.

So once they had this ability to really quickly turn it into fibers. Then big industry starts getting involved, and what they start doing is they start making these stories and putting them in the newspaper about Mexicans and black people smoking this new drug called marijuana and raping white women. And marijuana was not pot. Marijuana was a wild mexican tobacco. It was a slang for a wild mexican tobacco.

It had nothing to do with marijuana. So they started attaching this name to something, calling it a drug, because they knew that cannabis was so ubiquitous, and hemp as a commodity was. Everybody knew it, what it was good for. So they had to come up with some sneaky way to get it through. So they come up with the word marijuana.

So marijuana was not a term for pot. It wasn't a term for cannabis. It was a term for this wild mexican tobacco. And so when they started making marijuana illegal, Congress didn't even understand that it was the same thing as hemp. And so they had to come up with some sort of a tax stamp that you can have in order to grow hemp while marijuana is illegal.

And then this is like, right after prohibition, right, right. So prohibition ends. You got all these cops that were used to busting people, like, sic em on the farmers now. Exactly. And this is what happened.

Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. And then they come up with these dopey movies that are amazing to watch today. Have you ever seen reefer madness? Mm mm. It's crazy.

Joe Rogan
It's like people smoking pot, just jumping out of windows and killing people. It has this guy smoking pot. Talk about some propaganda. Oh, it's the worst propaganda. But it was really effective.

Like, this is it. I've got a few of these posters. Weird that I have them framed. Oh, my gosh. Because these movies were insane, and they were just full on propaganda movies.

Tulsi Gabbard
Lust, crime, sorrow, hate, shame, despair. Find the movie. Find a clip from the movie brief or madness. We just watch it without playing. But it was so nutty, and they scared everybody, like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God.

Joe Rogan
So understand that media has sucked forever. Yeah, exactly. Just understand that. So this is Reefer madness. At the local soda fountain, innocently they dance.

So that dude on the piano, he's a reefer man lurking behind closed doors. Marijuana, the burning weed with its roots in hell. Look at him. In this film, you will see the ease with which this vicious plant can be grown in your neighbor's yard, rolled into harmless looking cigarettes, hidden in an innocent shoe or watch case. In this startling film, you will see Dorpsters lure children to destruction.

We're going over to Joe's place. Why don't you come along? We have a date to play a set of doubles. Oh, you can play anytime. Come on.

We'll have some laughs. Can I go along with you? Sure. Hey, I'll see you dinner, sis. If you want a good smoke, try one of these.

You will meet Bill, who once took pride in his strong will as he takes the first step toward enslavement. Enslavement.

Smoking. The soul destroying reaper. They find a moment's pleasure, but at a terrible price. Debauchery, violence, murder. Wow.

Look. She's just gonna jump out the window. Oh, my gosh. Jeez.

Apparently it makes you act terrible, too, right? Terrible at acting. Look at this guy play fast.

She's actually playing pretty good for someone who's stoned. Yeah. You know, imagine being hammered and trying to play that. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

So this was the propaganda from. And what year was that, Jamie? 36. 36. Wow.

So this is all. They're all, like, trying to stop hemp as a commodity. Wow. That's really what it's all about. Yeah, it's really not.

Tulsi Gabbard
Isn't it fascinating just to see, just, you know, the repetition of the propaganda, information warfare, to be able to serve a special interest? Yeah, it's ridiculous. And it's ridiculous that it's fomenting fear and. Yeah. And that it was going on almost 100 years ago.

Joe Rogan
And what's also important about it is the problem with something like that is that now you don't trust the media. Right? Now, if you don't trust the media, and then you go out and try it yourself, you don't have real accurate information. Cause now there's like this. There's these narratives that have been created that aren't based on truth.

And so you don't know where to go. You don't know what's real and what's not. And then you have people that tell you it's harmless. And then you have people that tell you there's people like me, they go, meh. Cause I'm like, it's not harmless.

Marijuana is not a harmless thing. You definitely shouldn't take it when you're young. And here's what's really important. Some people can't handle it for whatever reason, and it's most likely some biological thing. Just like some people are allergic to aspirin or whatever.

There's some people, they don't mix well with that stuff. And there's a real connection between schizophrenia with some people that maybe are susceptible to schizophrenia. Alex Berenson wrote a great book about it called tell your children. It's very interesting because there's real instances of people taking high doses and getting schizophrenic. But if we're being lied to about it, no one knows what who did, who's gonna give me the information?

Where's the truth coming out? Because if one group is saying that this is a schedule one chemical and it's very dangerous, and then all your friends are just smoking weed and going to the movies, you're like, well, clearly this is not that dangerous. Like jiu jitsu people and surfers, they're all getting high. What's real here? And because we don't have the ability to just honestly talk about things without everything getting so weird.

And like the hemp thing, like having a hemp flag. Like this is a problem with the DEA. Hey, guys, don't you have fentanyl to worry about? Why are you fucking with flags? Seriously?

Tulsi Gabbard
It makes sense. There's only 10,000 DEA agents. I think there's 10,100 some DEA agents. You guys got time for flags? Yeah.

Joe Rogan
How many pounds of fentanyl is coming through that border while we're talking? Yeah, well, you and I are talking how much fentanyl is making it across in people's shoes and underwear and where the fuck they're hiding it. No one's checking everybody. Yeah, no, it's true. And then of course, all the medicinal qualities of CBD as well.

Tulsi Gabbard
And how many people and kids and just people are benefiting from that? Well, Dave Foley told me that his arthritis was so bad that his fingers were kind of like locked in this position. He had a really hard time straightening him until he started taking CBD. Then he's like, it's so much better now. Wow, just like my fingers have full range of motion now.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, I know so many people that take it for like aches and pains and it actually helps some people with anxiety too, which is interesting. The conflict here is as you know, you know, as majority of states in the country have legalized it in some fashion, whether it's medicinal or recreational or whatever, all these different levels. But because of the federal prohibition, essentially you've got banking. It is a multi, I don't know, multi hundred million dollar industry at least at this point. But in order to be able to conduct business with the bank, the bank and the business owner faces potential, a potential federal charge of a crime.

Tulsi Gabbard
And so it's, you know, the second, 3rd, 4th order of effects of this scheduling of cannabis is very, very far reaching and creating a worse problem, which, you know, is, okay, so we do this on the black market. Does this just become a cash industry, or where does this go? Yeah. And the problem also is by having some states have it legal and some states have it illegal, then you still open up a market for illegal sales in the country. And what happens is the cartel comes in and they start growing it on public lands.

Joe Rogan
I had a guy on the podcast, name is John Norris, and he started off as a game worker. So he started off as a guy who's going to check fishing licenses and stuff, and one day they find that a stream has been diverted, and they're trying to figure out why. Why the stream is dried up. So they make their way up the stream, they find this irrigation system that's set up for an illegal marijuana grow op in the middle of public land in California. So then they develop a tactical team.

So it goes from being him being a game warden. Now they have dogs and bulletproof vests. They're getting in shootouts with the cartel because they're making millions of dollars, but they're using really dangerous chemicals and pesticides that are illegal to use on crops in America, and they're just using that shit up there. So who knows what the fuck you're getting if you're living in one of these states that has illegal pot? Because when California changed the law and made marijuana legal recreationally, they made growing marijuana without a license.

It's just a misdemeanor. So these guys that are just doing it now from the cartel, they're like, you have nothing to risk. It's a misdemeanor, and we can make millions and millions of dollars. And so they have these guys up there, they have, like, you know, rosaries and all these, like, photos of Jesus and shit they find in campgrounds. And they pay these guys to go out there, grow this stuff, and then bring it out, harvest it, and bring it out, and they're selling it.

He said that, I think, believe John said at the time of our podcast that 90% of all the marijuana that's being sold in the states where it's illegal is all from these grow ups, a lot of them in California on public land by the cartels. 90%? Yeah, 90. That's huge. Even good old fashioned american pot growing entrepreneurs, the illegal ones, they can't keep up with the cartel.

And this is because it's illegal. And this is the same reason why fentanyl's coming in the same. I mean, don't do heroin, kids, okay? But it should if you keep everything illegal. You're gonna just prop up the government of these companies, these countries, that is allowing this stuff to come in, and they're allowing people to grow it, or they can't do anything about it because the cartel has so much money and so much power that the government is basically helpless.

And it's being propped up by Americans. 100%. 100%, 100%. It's a rough thing to deal with because we don't want to say, oh, let's make all drugs legal, because, my God, the last thing you want is your kid to die of a drug overdose, kids to be doing drugs. But also, if you don't do that, you're just gonna empower our neighbors to the south, who happen to be drug dealers, some of them, and they're making billions of dollars selling drugs to America.

And you're killing kids at a rate higher than ever in recorded history. People are dying. There's 100,000 plus people every year that are dying from opiate overdoses, which is nuts. That's so much. It's crazy that it's happening here in the United States of America.

And the thing is, this is where it's hard. It's happening because it's illegal, which sounds so counterintuitive.

The problem is, if it was legal, there would be a long period of time where it would be really bad. I think if it was legal, too many people would try it. That wouldn't try it. Wouldn't have otherwise. Yeah, they're not gonna go to a drug dealer, but if they can just go to cv's and buy heroin, like, let's see what the fuss is all about.

Yeah, you know, that's spooky. I think that this is the conversation that needs to be had, though. You know what I mean? I mean, it's the same thing about people unwilling to even discuss what is the right path. How do we handle this crisis that is a national crisis?

Yeah. There's so many people's lives. Tell people not to do it. Yeah, right. Okay.

Tulsi Gabbard
I don't know. Well, that works out. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Joe Rogan
We're in a weird spot. I was in San Diego a few weeks ago. We went out kind of to film a little mini documentary about what's happening at the border in San Diego. There's a lot of attention being put on Texas and Arizona. California's border is a whole different dynamic, both because they've got a long stretch of border where you're crossing in and you're going straight to mountains big open spaces.

Tulsi Gabbard
But then you've got the very dense urban corridor, I suppose, where people, whether they're coming in through the water or they're just coming across the border where they can disappear into neighborhoods very quickly.

Theres a few things that were very eye opening and interesting. Number one is we know that the borders are open because we know how many people are coming through the numbers that are being reported. I think its close to 9 million now. Just over the course of the Biden administration, what I saw there were people coming in, and we were just driving around, and we saw groups of people gathering in different locations from all over the world, illegal immigrants and seemingly happy, and going to the place where they were told to go, where they knew that border patrol was gonna pick them up, and knowing that they will get processed, claim asylum, and most of them will be out with a plane ticket anywhere in the country within 24 hours. That's crazy.

It's. And I've talked to some of the border patrol agents, and they're not allowed to say anything on the record, but just the frustration that's being felt where they can't even do their job. What is the justification for the plane ticket?

They don't have the, they don't have the ability to house people where they are. So just like, where do you want to go? Utah. Okay, here you go. Where do you want to go?

New York City. And I went and I talked to a lot of them. I sat down and talked with people from Brazil, from Egypt, from Colombia, from Venezuela, from different parts of eastern Europe, people from all over the world coming here with the known plan in this well oiled machine. And I'm talking about this because it is very directed to the cartel, directly connected to the cartels who are being enabled in their multibillion dollar human trafficking operation across the border by our policies, by the Biden administrations policies at the border, which is connected to their ability to move fentanyl and other drugs across the border. And so we spent a couple of days at the border there and then went into the city of San Diego and went and started talking to some homeless people and talking to people who were clearly, clearly extremely high on multiple.

And we're walking around with one of the community relations police officers there who's just plain clothes. He's walking around and keeping an eye on what's going on there. But we talked to this one guy who had a crack pipe in his hand. He seemed barely conscious, but we had a, he was engaging in a long conversation with us. And, you know, I was asking him about fentanyl, and he's like, oh, yeah, I take fentanyl sometimes, but I usually take it at night to help me go to sleep.

Aren't you afraid of not waking up? He's like, yeah, I've had a lot of friends who've died from fentanyl, but I know how much to take and I know how to manage it. And have you? He's like, yeah, I almost died twice, and I was revived, but. And then asking him, the police officer asked him, what would it take to get you off the street?

What would it take to get you to a place where you can get some help and to get off drugs? And he said, he's a 27 year old guy. Nothing. Nothing.

He said, there's too many rules in the places where I could go and stay, and I want to live my life this way. It was so heartbreaking to see him. You know, his eyes were barely open and clearly in an altered state of mind. But even in that state, in this conversation, how do you help someone who doesn't want to be helped? You can't.

Joe Rogan
It's the problem. I mean, you could talk to them. You could hope that they could get some information from you that shifts the way they think about things. But the addiction gets so deep, and there's this thing that some addicts will say is that I feel better when I'm high, that it's the only time I feel good. It's the only thing good that I have in my life is when I get high.

And if you take that away, my life is terrible. And if you've been an addict for a long time, the longer you're an addict, in fact, the more that's true, right? Because the more your life is a wreck, and then you're forced to deal with it when you come off and you realize, like, oh, my God, I'm 45 years old and I'm a heroin addict. Like, what the fuck? How is this exactly?

And then now you're sober and your life is in shambles, and you try to, like, figure out, how did you go so wrong? And then the only thing that made you feel good was heroin. You want to go back. You want to go back to that. And it's also people, like, get really scared of success, even success in staying sober.

They get scared of doing things well, and they seek comfort in failure because they've become accustomed to failure. So the pressure of doing well and of, like, staying sober and, like, keeping healthy, like, it's almost too much. Yeah. The maintaining the psychological, the anxiety, all the fear that comes with failing, that you just want to fail just so you could just feel comfortable again, because then you don't have. There's no pressure.

Yeah. You don't have to deal with the pressure. Yeah, it's scary. The human mind is so susceptible to so many different things, whether it's cults or addictions or, you know, I mean, we're very weirdly vulnerable to a lot of, like, very strange things and a lot of these things. I think a lot of the mental issues are accentuated by social media.

I think that they exacerbate them badly. I think there's a lot of undiagnosed mentally ill people that are just killing themselves by being online all the time. Yeah, I believe it. I really do. I think it's terrible for you.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. I mean, it's so easy to get sucked into it. It's so easy. And people that are, like, arguing with people constantly online. Exactly.

Joe Rogan
My God, what a terrible waste of time. Yeah. When that becomes your reality, dealing with people and perceptions and, you know, measuring yourself against whatever you're seeing and all of it, and you slip out of the real world and building real relationships and friendships and having real conversations. Yeah. Comparing, too.

The comparing is something that you and I didn't have to grow up with. Exactly. And we're very, very fortunate because, especially young girls today. And Jonathan Haidt's work on this has been really interesting. His book, the Coddling of the american mind, is a great one.

And it's all about what you could see, like, exactly when social media is invented, all this self harm and all the suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideation and suicide all goes up for girls. And it's comparing themselves. Doesn't surprise me. Yeah, absolutely. It's such a bizarre thing that a person can get super duper famous just dancing on an app that goes online, and then they make millions of dollars, and they're like, your age, and you're like, what's wrong with me?

I'm a loser. You can't just live your life and hang out with your friends. Everyone is in constant comparison with impossible people that shouldn't even exist. And then you add the layer of AI onto that, where you have complete. You've got videos and pictures of people who are a digital construct, not just.

That people are paying to talk to them. Right. There's this guy. They found this. They were doing this study on AI girlfriends where people have, like, interactions with AI.

This guy was spending $10,000 a month on his AI girlfriend. Oh, my gosh. Isis could get that guy. They just gotta find him. If they just find that guy, they can talk that guy into anything.

If you're willing to get an AI girlfriend. $10,000 a month. Yeah. You'll join the Moonies. You'll be in whatever comes along, son.

You're vulnerable. They'll get you. But that's, you know, you look at what's happening on college campuses across the country right now, it speaks exactly to that. That vulnerability of being manipulated or, you know, sold in ideology and then grabbing onto it as though you now have a sense of purpose. Yeah, that's the problem.

The sense of purpose is so attractive to people that there's so many kids that want to be so righteous, and they just want to criticize and yell at other people who don't feel the same way they do. And so you're seeing these Israel versus Palestine things on school campuses. I'm like, my God. Which brings me to. This is an interesting thought.

Like, what's your opinion on this potential TikTok ban? I oppose it. I oppose it on the grounds of free speech and civil liberties. This is speaking of fomenting fear. This is one of those pieces of legislation that's, if you just read the talking points for those who support it, and it's supported by many people in Congress on both sides of the aisle, you think like, oh, my gosh, we've got a national security risk, and you've got concern for our kids and all of this other stuff.

Tulsi Gabbard
But when you actually read the language and understand the implications of what this legislation does, it's not really about TikTok at all. It's about government being able to choose what platforms are acceptable and what are not, and what we as Americans are able to either get information from or put information out. And then you look at, okay, well, if they're giving themselves that authority, how will it then be enforced? Then you get into the civil liberties concern of the Fourth Amendment, of government overreach and trying to figure out, okay, well, now I'm going to have to look into your phone and figure out if you're the guy who's using the VPN to illegally download this app, then you're looking at, you know, the. The designation is that if you have 20% or more ownership stake or stake in a business that has been designated by our government to be illegal because of its association with a foreign adversary, there are a few countries listed there, but the president would have the power to designate any other country a foreign adversary without any kind of, you know, Congress wouldn't have to take action.

It's a unilateral move. You are also implicated if you are someone who the government determines to be influenced by or connected with one of these countries, that is a foreign adversary. And so, you know, Elon Musk has talked about this. It is not outside of the realm of the, not only possible, but the probable that if they wanted to say, okay, well, you know, Elon Musk is doing business with this country that we don't like. I know he also owns this platform called X.

X should be shut down because of this association.

I think Ron Paul said it best when he said that this legislation is the most, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said it's the most egregious violation of civil liberty since the Patriot act was passed in the wake of 911. And when you look at the arguments that are being made around both of those pushes, they are very eerily similar in invoking national security concerns. And the language and the way thats written is intentionally vague. That puts far more power into the hands of the executive branch, just like the Patriot act did, to single handedly say, well, this is a good guy and this is a bad guy, and that has a direct implication on Americans. And wasnt there another recent thing that passed that allows more observation of people through cell phones?

Yes. Yes. And both of these things were actually wrapped up into that same bill. That was the same bill. They lumped together a whole bunch of different things.

They were separate previously, but the thing that the TikTok ban was lumped together with was the bill that would reinstate or extend the FISA authorities, the Foreign Intelligence Security act authorities, for another two years. Section 702 of FISA gives our government the authority to surveil foreign actors, essentially to try to identify terrorist threats. But part of that is they have the ability to capture all of the conversations. If you talk to somebody in another country that they're interested in, they can then go in and capture all of your information as an american citizen. And they can do this without a warrant.

This has been in place for quite some time. But this legislation that was just passed recently expanded those authorities so they can go and actually look at, like, your Wifi history. If you're connected to Wifi, they can look at everything that you did connected to that wifi signal. And in some other ways, it took an already bad problem and made it many, many times worse. And again, they're just saying, well, it's for national security.

The problem here is. That's the thing they always say. That's the thing they always say. And it's like, you know, I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said, if, you know, if you are choosing security over liberty, you will neither be secure nor will you have liberty. That's not an actual quote, but that's basically the point here.

And that's the false choice that so many of these politicians are, are forcing on the american people, is you can either be less free and more safe, or you can be more free and, oh, by the way, you're going to invite more terrorist attacks or more national security incursions on our country. And it's just, it's just b's. It is b's. It's also very un american. It is.

Joe Rogan
And here's the problem with government overreach. The government is just people. Yeah, that's the problem. Like, you know, if, if you thought of them as something other than a three letter name, like DEA, CIA, NSA, just a bunch of people, yeah. You would go, well, why is this like the DEA?

Why is this 10,000 people telling all these other people what to do? That sounds crazy. There's way more of them than there are of us. If it was just in this room and Jamie turns out to be the cop and he says, hey, I'm gonna put you two in prison because I heard you like hemp. Yeah, Jimmy, fuck off.

That's crazy. But if it's a government agency with a three letter name, you're like, oh, this is the government. The government is just human beings. And there's just a natural inclination that people in power have is to try to gain more power. Yes, rich people want to get richer, hot people want to get hotter.

That's what it is. Everybody wants to improve. And the governments, they're in the business of telling you what to do, and they want to be better at that business. And the best way is to be able to, like, constantly be able to surveil everything you say and do, right. And again, we shouldn't let them.

Tulsi Gabbard
No, and this is the problem. This is the problem is that, you know, every elected official swears an oath to support and defend the constitution. Yet, as we saw with this most recent example, they are so ready to undermine our Fourth Amendment rights in the constitution in the name of national security. And I know some of them are doing it with good intention, but without actually considering that the challenge and responsibility of those in government and those who have this power is to strike that correct balance between ensuring that our liberties and our constitutional rights are protected. You swear an oath to do this when you take this job, while also ensuring, okay, well, we can do both, and we must do both.

We can be safe and secure and also be able to live free without worrying about every time you pick up your phone or you make a phone call wondering if the government is surveilling us. And then you add onto that what's happening now? Where, you know, like, January 6, for example, I was working out in the gym, Marine Corps gym in Hawaii, down the street from our house. Bumped into a guy who I met. It's a long story, but I met him when the rock's stunt double was getting his traditional samoan tattoo.

And it's a whole ceremony. It was a seven day thing. And so this other guy is samoan. We met, became friends. So I saw him in the gym, and he's with his 14 year old son.

How's it going? This and that. He's like, oh, the FBI just came to my house out in Laiye, a small, rural community on the island of Oahu. I was like, what's going on? He's like, yeah, they came and knocked on my door because he said, I took my son to go and witness democracy.

So they were part of those thousands of people who were out there on the lawn of the Capitol, and they didn't arrest him. They didn't charge him with anything. But how is it that, you know, years later, years later, they go and find this guy and his family in a rural mormon community in Laie, in Hawaii. They're capturing all of the data of people whose cell phones were pinging within that vicinity during that period of time, not only on January 6, and they are continuing to widen that net, looking at flight records and who bought tickets and who booked hotels and all of this stuff. For what?

You're gonna go. The FBI is gonna go and investigate people who showed up there on the lawn, on the Capitol.

You look at what they're. And this is. This is scare tactics. It is absolutely scare tactics. So when we look at the power of the government and how they're now turning on the american people for political reasons, we can see where even the best of intentions with some of these pieces of legislation can lead to the very worst places.

Joe Rogan
What? To speak of the fact that we have limited resource and limited people. What are they not investigating? You talked about the DEA. What about the FBI and all these millions of people are coming across our border.

Tulsi Gabbard
Are they tracking who they are? No, they're not. Are they tracking where they're going, no, they're not. We have no idea. People coming from the Middle east and Asia and Eastern Europe and Venezuela, gang members.

Like, all of this stuff is happening right before our very eyes and they're going and knocking on my friend's door in LA because he brought his 14 year old son to Washington, DC that week. And here's the question. Was the FBI there? How many people were there? And how come they don't have to answer that.

Exactly. They don't say, why not be transparent? Also? They should be there. Like the government should be there in case some shit goes sideways.

Exactly. Right. So I'm sure they're there. But are some of the agents not good? Just like some dentists suck.

Joe Rogan
Are some of the agents not good and are some of the agents encouraging people to go in? Because that could be true, too. Because if we look at what happened with the governor of Michigan. Right? Was it Michigan or Minnesota?

Tulsi Gabbard
Michigan. Michigan. That story is bonkers. It is. When you find out, what was it?

Joe Rogan
Like? Eleven of the people involved in the kidnapping scheme were FBI informants, right? What? Yeah. And these two dopes who just like, just dumb asses, like Adiq dumbasses that.

Tulsi Gabbard
Just get tricked into this fucking. They cosplay and they're gonna kidnap her. Definitely get liberty done. They don't know what they're doing. They're stupid.

Joe Rogan
And those poor fucks have to go to jail. Yeah, exactly. And the whole thing was scheduled and set up by FBI informants. Like, that seems crazy. Aren't there real problems?

Instead of creating problems and then arresting people for those problems, aren't there real problems going on? And if there's not, like, you guys good at your job, we're trusting you. And there are like, you know, for sure I know some great FBI agents and there are people who are doing good work. Absolutely. I've met great FBI agencies.

Tulsi Gabbard
Phenomenal. Nice people. Good people. Patriots. Absolutely.

Joe Rogan
But they're like dentists. Some of them are great. I mean, it's just, you know, it's militaries and law enforcement. Like, yes, you are going to find those few, for sure. They are there.

Tulsi Gabbard
But with. So I've talked to different people than the FBI. And what they've shared is that there's kind of like a bifurcation in the agency where there are people who are really, really angry and frustrated about the politicization of the FBI that's occurring by the heads. And then there are others who are just like, full send, we're on board. Let's go.

And it's creating a lot of friction and a lot of fear within the agency. I don't know if the agency people get confused. That's the CIO. It's probably some similar things going on there. But within the FBI, a lot of fear that you gotta watch what you say around even your own colleagues and your own peers, because there are people who are on different sides, which is horrible.

Like, you are on the side of America, you are on the side of the american people and upholding the rule of law and securing our country, going after the bad guys. Well, when the bad guys now become your neighbor down the street, we're in a very different realm, a dangerous one. It's just how it is with people. Red Sox fans hate Yankee fans, just. Like they're in the same country.

Joe Rogan
You're gonna have conflict even inside the FBI. You're gonna have conflict in every group. You're gonna have power struggles. You know, you're either with Bob or you're not. If you wanna make it in this business, you wanna get to the top of this agency, you gotta stay with Bob.

And Bob's fucking calling the shots. I'm on team Bob. Like, fuck, Mike. And that's what happens with people. It happens in everything.

And you have people that go in with good, good intentions and they get corrupted by systems that are corrupt. That's where for the, you know, across, whether it's the FBI, the Department of justice, all of these, it matters, you know, who's in charge. These are all civilian led organizations. They are political appointees. And, you know, in theory, they are the people who should be held accountable, but they are setting that tone.

Did you hear what AOC said? She said the people that are struck, they're coming in to this country, that most of them, it's because of climate change. I didn't hear that one. It's amazing. It is straight out of South park.

It's straight out of South park. Wow. Like what? Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard
Is there more? Is the climate changed? More than I know. You know something I don't know. Like, what are you saying?

Joe Rogan
What's going on down there? The best are those clips. I just saw one on instagram the other day from like, 1985 where a news casters, I think it might even have been black and white. And she's saying the climate change scientists tell us that we may only have ten years before the earth is destroyed. 1992 is gonna be the year.

Tulsi Gabbard
And then whoever made this clip, they juxtaposed her clip with one from Bernie Sanders saying the exact same thing with a different date. You know how many decades later? The problem is when you fear monger, you distract people from the real issue. Like, what is really going on? Like, how bad are we fucking up the planet?

Joe Rogan
Here's one that doesn't get discussed enough. We've killed everything in the ocean. The ocean is depleted. What was the number, Jamie? Like 90% of the big fish are gone.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Some crazy number like that because of. Just imagine how psychotic it is to have a species that goes into another dimension that it's not a resident of and uses nets and just takes everything it can get and catches a bunch of dolphins and shit in there that doesn't want anyway, and they all die. Exactly. A new global study concludes that 90% of all large fishes have disappeared from the world's oceans in the past half century, in 50 years.

Joe Rogan
So that's a cataclysm that's a disaster of epic proportion when it comes to, like, ecology and when it comes to the just the environment of the world itself. We're killing most because we like sushi. We're killing most of what's in the ocean. Bananas. And so that is getting ignored because everyone is talking about fossil fuels.

And I wonder how much of this is pushed by foreign countries through social media, because there is a thing that you can do and nudge conversations in a certain way with bots and with fake statistics and with fear mongering. And meanwhile, China is opening hundreds of new coal power plants. They're doubling down on coal. And I think through TikTok and through probably Facebook and YouTube and all these different things and Instagram. I'm sure there's countless bots that are putting out videos and pushing narratives and find their way into your algorithm, and they affect the way people think about things.

And guess what? If you go to Chinese TikTok, it's all academic accomplishments, martial arts demonstrations, science achievements, and you can't go on after 10:00 p.m.? Right. In America, it's dudes with fake eyelashes reading stories to toddlers. Exactly.

And it's everybody telling you the ocean's gonna boil. Yeah, it's weird. It's Osama bin Laden's letter to America. Yeah, the letter to America thing was wild, too, where everybody was like, wow, you know, Osama bin Laden had a point. Oh, my gosh, I had a dinner the other night with a family.

Tulsi Gabbard
It was during the holiday of Passover. And this question came up about what would happen if another 911 style terrorist attack or some major incident like that came up in our country today, would it have that same kind of unifying effect that occurred after that attack on 911? And when you look at things like that, like the Osama bin Laden letter, and you look at how there is. I mean, there's an entire, not an entire generation, but there's a lot of people now who I wouldn't be surprised if they said, well, you know, such an attack was justified and not have that same kind of sense of unity of like, hey, no matter our differences, we got to stand together as Americans. And that should be a serious concern.

Joe Rogan
It should be a serious concern also, when you really take into consideration how many genuinely dumb people there are, and when you have a situation like October 7 in Israel, I saw within days before Israel did what they did in Palestine, within days, I saw people justifying the attacks on October 7 because of the treatment that Israel has given to the Palestinians, I'm like, hey, that's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy to say that you think people should be indiscriminately shot and killed and just en masse at a fucking rave, like paratrooping. You think that's okay because of what Israel's done. But guess what?

Those people didn't do that. Those people at the rave and those people that are on the border, those are apparently, according to Ari, those are the hippies. Right? They're the ones who want to be. They're the ones who don't believe that we should be.

Tulsi Gabbard
They believe in borders. Yeah, they don't believe in borders. They want to be close to the Palestinians. Right, exactly. And that's where, you know, some of the things that they're chanting, that these protesters are chanting at Columbia University and some of the other ones, we hope that October 7 happens 10,000 times over.

They say, you know, celebrating Hamas, this is most terrorist organization. It is. It's, you know, I don't think we can just dismiss them as just being stupid. You know what I mean? Like, these kids are going to Ivy League schools.

They are being absolutely manipulated. And there is a very intentional ideological war that is being waged in this example by these radical islamist groups like Hamas. And they had planned this. They've been doing this for hundreds of years, and they're using technology and they're using other means to be able to achieve that end, no doubt. As is Russia, as is China.

Joe Rogan
They've infiltrated universities. You know, the famous Yuri Bezmanov speech from 1984, which is crazy when you hear it today because he called it. He knew it was going to happen. And it's happening. And it's happening from college campuses outward.

So the most radical of these ideologies are being promoted on colleges because the kids are the youngest. They don't have jobs and real world experience. They don't have, they don't. They don't. They're young.

They have ideologies. They're a little bit unrealistic. And they're all captured by this status game that's going on, on campus where you're trying to be the most radical. Like, oh, he's so radically pro Palestine. He's so hot.

And then that really becomes a thing. You become virtuous and you become attractive. You become interesting without actually being interesting, just because you have this rabid adherence to an ideology that's right now in vogue. And that's really what it is. And I think a lot of that is funded by foreign governments, and there's a lot of evidence that points to it.

And we should consider it as a possibility. And don't dismiss it as a conspiracy theory. Consider it as a possibility. And so this is a question about things like TikTok, like, and Twitter and all of them. All of them, because I guarantee you it's not just foreign countries, kids.

I guarantee you there are people in this country that are using it. I know businesses do it. I guarantee you people do it to try to influence the way people think about things. And when you see posts, I've seen posts multiple times saying outrageous things. And I'll just, okay, let me click on this guy.

And it's usually some letters and numbers and name maybe, and a bunch of numbers. And then I click and I realize, oh, fake person. Just go through all these posts. Yeah, it's all just retweeting inflammatory stuff. And it's nutty fucking crazy politic takes and, like, really aggressive takes on things.

And like, wow, how many of them are there? Yeah, there's no question that this is happening. And the social media algorithms are feeding it and playing, playing right into it in our attention and our minds are the commodity 100%. And if they can just trick you into buying some stuff along the way, that'd be great. Exactly.

Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. I never thought that your data would be so valuable. That's the thing about when you and I were younger, it meant nothing. Your data meant nothing. Like, nobody.

Joe Rogan
What are you talking about, my data? Exactly. These are about my data. Right? What is that?

Tulsi Gabbard
Why would anybody be interested in that? My first inclination that data meant something was I bought dianetics. I bought that book in, like, 1994 when I first moved to Hollywood, and Scientology never stopped sending me things. Like, we got one. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
I was like, oh, that's how they get you. Yeah. And then they get you to join. I guess you have to give them a piece, give them a taste, what you do. Join the group.

Yeah. And so data now is responsible for the largest corporations in terms of, like, the amount of money. Like, think about Apple, how big Apple is and how much data Apple has. And Apple's better with data than Android systems are, and Google's terrible with it. They're just siphoning data.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. And that's the fallacy. And that's kind of the falsehood of the argument for people who are pushing that TikTok ban bill, is if they're claiming they're concerned about data security and privacy and making sure that our data is protected, you gotta do it across the board. Yes. Because every single one of these social media or big tech companies is collecting as much as they possibly can.

And if you think they're not selling it to the highest bidder, whether they be an american company or a foreign company, of course they are. This is their business model. Wasn't there some controversy about one of the DNA companies, whether it's ancestry or. One of the other ones there was. Where they sold their data to China.

Think so. Which is. I don't remember which one sold everybody's jeans. Yeah, like, I didn't know you could do that. I wouldn't have signed up for that.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, you could sell my jeans to China. Like, if China was, like, offering free DNA tests, was it? No, they sold to.

Tulsi Gabbard
Big pharma. That's even scarier. Who they sell it to. They could sell it to anybody else too. Right?

Joe Rogan
23 andme sells anonymous DNA drug company for 20 million. That's not even that much. Oh, it's not that anonymous, guys. It's. Yeah, of course, guys.

Tulsi Gabbard
Of course. Wasn't there one with China, though, with ancestry? Yeah, this is 23 andme. Now. This is ancestry also.

Joe Rogan
This is interesting as well. Interesting. $20 million. I remember something about China. I mean, I just typed in data sold, and that's what comes up.

I might be on the wrong forums, though. I might be on some conspiratorial forums.

I might have gone too deep on the JFK rabbit hole the other night. This is what you said. Okay, China. There it goes. Groundbreaking move that has sent shockwaves through the biotech industry.

23 andme, the leading personal genomics and biotechnology companies, officially announced the sale of its entire DNA database to the chinese government for an astonishing $10 billion. Wow. Yeah. So that's the one I was looking for. But I'll just add that that's only coming from a medium article.

Not any other articles are saying that. Jamie. Why you gotta fuck it up with facts? I'm just trying to understand what's happening. I don't know.

Tulsi Gabbard
Jamie is on it. Why you gotta fuck it up with facts? Yeah. Who knows? But your data is extremely valuable.

Joe Rogan
That's weird. And it's also valuable to humans. It's humans selling other humans data. Whether you call them Facebook or Google or the DEA, it's just a bunch of people. And if they don't have to follow the same rules that you follow, then we have real problems.

And when you have entire groups of people that are dependent upon technology that's controlled almost entirely by one ideology, and then you let the government get involved, like they did with Twitter. And you see with the Twitter files, you're like, oh, Jesus. Exactly. This is bad. You let the government have a back door, and they started sneaking around and telling you what to do and what not to do, and you were complying.

People were telling other people that they couldn't have. Experts from Harvard and Stanford talk about medical problems. Yes. You gotta stop this. Stop those experts from talking.

Remove those posts. Ban those people. The government is saying that. Exactly, exactly. And even if they're not saying, hey, do this, or else, even if they're not making an explicit threat, just the.

Fact that you're getting requests from the government. Exactly. Like, what would you, like, what are you gonna do? The FBI is calling and saying, like, hey, we'd really like you to do x, y, or z? In my mind, I'd be like, okay.

Tulsi Gabbard
Like, what am I gonna be investigated for outside of this if I say no? Also, what are the consequences gonna be. If you're a person working at Twitter, right? This is not you. They're not investigating you.

Joe Rogan
They're investigating someone else. Right? So if they're going in, they're talking about these posts like, hey, this expert is spreading misinformation. And this is like, they're. They're causing vaccine hesitancy or whatever they're causing.

We need to stop this. Put a stop to this. Like, why is the government being involved in a dispute between doctors and the pharmaceutical drug companies? Like, what are you doing? And how do you know?

Did you guys adjudiate this? Did you guys get in front of a court? Did you guys get in front of experts? Did people testify? Did you have someone who's pro and con, this someone who lays out this argument.

Did you examine this? No, no, no, you didn't. You just contacted Twitter, and Twitter said, okay, because what are they gonna do? They're fucking executives. If you're working at Twitter and this old Twitter and you're like, super woke, right?

And, you know, you just been drinking lattes and going into the meditation room, then all of a sudden you get an email from the FBI like, I don't want to fuck up this job. I got a cushy job. And you're like, okay, what do I have to do? Okay, I'll do that. Yeah, exactly.

So you do that. And that's not good. It's not good to have that kind of power being wielded by other people. They're just people. You could call them the FBI and call the DNA.

They're human beings, and human beings that have that kind of power over other human beings in a country that's supposed to value freedom, that that's the thing in and of itself is un american. And that's where this isn't just like some rogue FBI agent doing this or some rogue bureaucrat in an agency who's going and doing this. This is an expressed policy coming from the Biden administration in this example, to go and use big tech to silence certain peoples voices and to decide who does the government want to be heard and who needs to be silenced. And obviously, we could talk all day about the cozy relationship that many politicians have with big pharma. And its not a surprise that theyre going to act in favor of big pharma rather than in favor of the truth or free speech or peoples health and well being.

Tulsi Gabbard
But the fact that this was and is the Biden administration's policy to decide that they are the arbiter of what is misinformation, disinformation, what is information, what is true and what is not, and that they will use the tools available to them, both within the government as well as outside of the government in the case of big tech and social media, to be able to enforce that. And that's really the, you know, for people who aren't paying attention to this stuff at home and are just trying to live their lives and, you know, go to work and take care of their kids and just live their life, it's easy to fall victim to, like, well, the government wants what's best for us, and they don't want us to be manipulated by misinformation or disinformation. And so this is the line that they use, like, we're doing this for you. We're trying to protect you. So once again, we're gonna take away some of your freedom and some of your privacy and tell you what you know, who you should be listening to, and what information you should be getting.

Joe Rogan
The king knows. Yes. The king will tell the people how to live. Yes. This is how you wash.

Tulsi Gabbard
This is coming from the same people who are telling us that boys can become girls on any day of the week because they feel like it. Yeah. Rachel Levine is the first female admiral. Exactly. Exactly.

Which is insane. And then they stand there and say, well, we are the champions for women. If they cannot even accept objective truth. We're living in the strangest of strange times. I also think that a lot of that stuff is being accentuated by social media, manipulated intentionally, because I think if you can just get those narratives out there enough, that affects the gullible people, that affects sensitive people, that affects people on the spectrum.

Joe Rogan
It affects a lot of people. And then they start getting rewarded for leaning into one type of ideology or another, and then it's affecting people. We are affected by our environment, and to pretend otherwise is just silly, especially when you're talking about young people. Young people are particularly susceptible to propaganda, which is why they have young people wear suicide vests. That's why you can't get a 50 year old agnostic dude to wear a fucking suicide vest.

You know, he's gonna go, what am I gonna get when I blow up? I'm gonna go to heaven. Can you show me? You got a video? Is there a YouTube video I can watch?

Like, what are you sh. What are you saying? Yeah, but you could talk a five year old into it, and that's what they do. And that's sick. It is.

And it's just as sick to try to, like, indoctrinate them into these crazy ideologies, because it's just people want other people to join their fucking team. It's a common thing that people do. That's what's so concerning about. We are seeing the fruits of the shift in our education system away from actually teaching about the constitution and the founding documents and the federalist papers and the thought process behind that went into forming the constitution and the Bill of Rights in our schools. Basic government, basic 101 on what is this country really about?

Tulsi Gabbard
What is the foundation that we were built upon, and what does it mean to you in your everyday life and talking about the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment and going down the list, because that has been absent largely from our education system for so long, it creates, again, this vulnerability of young people being susceptible. They're not rooted in an ideology of freedom and what that means in our lives and why it's important, why we will fight and why we will fight to defend and protect it. And so then they're like, well, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe what Hamas is offering is a superior ideology or superior values system than what we have here in America, which a lot of these kids are saying, whether they realize fully what it is or not, they are falling victim to that ideology, that radicalismist ideology, which would be completely oppressive in the lives that they are trying to live here.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. The whole proposal behind it is best highlighted by the meme. Queers for Palestine. Yes. And then Palestine for queers.

Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. The difference between, like, that idea is so crazy. What you're saying is so nuts. Yes. And it's just this.

Joe Rogan
Fuck the system, fuck the government, fuck the patriarchy. It's this ideology that gets promoted that's. It's like frivolously wanting to destroy the foundation of this country, and they'll say it openly. We want to just stop colonialism. Okay, and then what?

Then what happens? What do you have? What do you have? Do you have warlords? What do you have?

What's going to run the country? How are you going to run it? What are you gonna do with all the guns? Well, that's where you know this. Again, Hamas had this whole thing planned, like, you know, gaining the compassion and the sympathy of the world.

How did they plan that? How did they think that they were gonna do that? That they knew how Israel would react, and they were ready with social media and all of the means of communication to play on the sympathies of people, the compassion and kind hearted people around the world, and turn peoples attention away from the 1200 people that were murdered and killed and the people that were raped on that attack on October 7. Their goal being ultimately to influence populations around the world towards this islamist ideology, that they want to govern the world under islamic rule, under sharia law. And weve seen already how its been successful in some parts of the world, even in Europe.

Tulsi Gabbard
In France, somebody was saying that, I think its 25% of France is already living under sharia law. And so this ideological war thats being waged is not. It's being waged by one side, and there's not a counter narrative. There's not a counter war being waged on the other side to defeat it with a superior ideology of freedom. And what we value as a society.

And that puts this mission and this effort, and it's not just Hamas, obviously, al Qaeda and ISIS and other terrorist organizations around the world. They all have that same objective which poses this great, the greatest short and long term threat to people who value freedom and to civilization. And we're also so uniquely vulnerable in that we do have this sort of democracy. It's obviously heavily influenced by money. And then with the open borders, so you have all these people funneling into the country, and so you have an erosion of confidence in our entire system because people are very aware of that.

Joe Rogan
And the more people are let out of jail after they commit violent crimes, the more people are aware of that. If you looked at the whole picture, all the things that are in play right now, particularly, like, with the open borders and giving people plane tickets and flying them to all these different cities, like, if I was going to try to destroy the country, that's how I would do it. If I was going to try to destroy the country, I would radicalize the kids. I would give them the stupidest ideas and run them in their head. Boys can be girls.

Girls can be boys. Boys can compete against girls in sports if they think theyre a girl. Queers for Palestine. The death to the Jews. Yell it out unironically on campuses.

And to have the presidents of those colleges and universities defend it, which was wild, completely. With cameras on them. Yeah, it shows how scared they are. It shows how afraid they are of actually calling out what is right and what is wrong. I think it also shows how they live in a bubble, and I don't think they interact with the real world.

And I think when they did, the shock was probably. It was probably horrifying to just to realize how most people feel about what they said. Like, oh, it's not harassment unless it's actionable. Like, what the fuck are you saying? Exactly?

You're saying, death to the Jews, so you have to kill Jews, and then it's harassment. Exactly. Isn't that a little late? I was shocked, like everyone else, at not only their statements, but how every one of them sitting at that table on that day said almost the exact same thing. And knowing how much preparation.

Tulsi Gabbard
Because when people come, I don't care who you are, but when you come and testify before congressional, you go through preparation. If you're the president of an Ivy League university, you're gonna have a whole team of people sitting there telling you, okay, well, here are the questions you should probably be prepared to answer. The question that Elise Stefanik asked was not outside of the realm of, like, here's what the frequently asked questions would be. And the fact that their answers were all the same and how they were smirking as they were giving that answer, I was very surprised by it. Maybe I shouldn't have been as surprised, given what they're doing.

Joe Rogan
I think we're sending our kids to cult camps. That's what I think. I think they get indoctrinated into this. They don't. All.

Some of them skate through. Some of them are wise. Some of them realize, this is crazy, can't wait to get the fuck out of here and get my degree and then go to work. But some of them just get locked in, and then it becomes their identity. And it's dangerous.

It's dangerous also, because, look, kids don't want to listen, okay? And if you have kids, they don't want to listen to you. They want to rebel. And when they finally get to go away somewhere and be on their own, and your dad's a banker, you're like, fuck that asshole. Capitalism is bullshit.

Like, you're wearing a che guevara t shirt. You don't know what the fuck you're doing. Chat GPT to answer your homework. Like, the whole thing is nuts. And then you're allowing those young people to.

Just trying out being an adult with a voice and an opinion and trying to be profound. Yeah. And there's no consequences to actions. No, it's weird. It's weird, it's weird.

It's weird that people can't see it. And I'm glad that some people are pulling funding. Like, there's a lot of people that are donors. Like, hey, fuck you. This is crazy.

And so that's fortunate that there's some sort of a blowback, you know? Even that woman from Harvard, even though she got. She was caught plagiarizing. Exactly. Many times.

Like, if you were a grad student, you got caught plagiarizing. That would be a wrap for you. But meanwhile, she keeps making the same amount of money. They just gave her a different job. They didn't even fire her.

Tulsi Gabbard
No. The whole thing's crazy. It is. The whole thing's crazy. It's like, that's supposed to be Harvard.

Joe Rogan
It's supposed to be the smartest people amongst us. And when you heard that lady talk, you're like, hey, how did she get to the top? That seems bananas. It seems like you probably had some better choices. Like, yeah, was there any other considerations into how she got that gig?

Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. The plagiarism doesn't freak you guys out. Isn't that opposed to everything that you stand for? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So what are you doing? You're not the best and the brightest anymore. You guys are doing nonsense. This is a cult camp.

Joe Rogan
You got a cult camp. You're indoctrinating people. And where are you getting your money? Like, and how much of that money is coming from China and how much of the influence is coming from Russia? How much of the influence, like, in the past, has shaped these people?

So you have this system where academics go to school, they learn, they get indoctrinated, and they start teaching, and they never enter into the real world, and they make this cycle. And those are the people that keep indoctrinating more people. And now they're infesting these social media apps, and they're infesting all of these tech companies, and everybody else is like, what are you doing? Exactly. This is crazy.

But it's all coming from universities. It's coming from the kids that get indoctrinated. These ideologies. And I remember when I first started talking about this in, like, 2015 or 16, whenever the Jordan Peterson thing was happening, it was. At first, it was Brett Weinstein on Evergreen College.

And people are like, why do you care what's happening in these obscure colleges? Hey, they're gonna graduate. Yes. Like, when I see fire and it's 5 miles away, I don't go, oh, it's 5 miles away. I go, hey, we gotta eat the fuck outta here now.

Get out of here now. Fire's coming. Get out. Like, this is like, you don't see that these kids are gonna leave school, but they're so crazy. They believe that you should have a day where you tell white people they have to stay home.

When it used to be that it was an appreciation of people of color so they could take the day off and they would get paid. And you go, oh, I really miss Mike. You know, I really miss Tanya. It'd be great if she was here. And, boy, it's hard not working with her, you know, and doing her job and my job at the same time.

Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. But telling people, white people they have to stay home and then threatening them with baseball bats if they don't have people roaming the parking lot with bat. When I saw that, I was like, this is crazy. And so many people were saying, why do you care?

Well, they're gonna go out in the world. And if this is happening there, it's not an isolated situation. It's happening to other people. And then the Jordan Peterson thing in Toronto and like, okay, guys. And now everyone is sort of realizing, like, oh, this is a real problem.

This is infesting the world. This ideology is pervasive and it's not well thought out. No, this is not just like, fact based, objective assessment, being kind and understanding and taking into account all the variables. No, it's like a cult. Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard
The problem is not everyone is seeing what's really happening. You still have the AOCs of the world and many people within the leadership of the Democratic party who. This is the direction we are headed. And that's a very dangerous thing for so many reasons. But obviously, because they're in a position of power and how they're using that power and how they're undermining the rule of law and choosing again who gets to speak freely and who gets to go and do whatever they want, want, break the law, you know, disturb the peace, acts of violence.

No, because what, you think that their cause is justified, right. But meanwhile, others who would do the very same thing be charged with a crime. Imagine if AOC got to write history books and they said, why did people sneak into America in 2024? Oh, climate change. 20 years from now, climate change was so bad that people were walking from Guatemala to get plane tickets to fly to Michigan.

Joe Rogan
Like, for real. Are you sure? Oh, my God. Are you sure that happened? Maybe there's other variables.

What do you think? Maybe he's encouraged, perhaps? Maybe there's a whole red cross map that they could follow. Hey, guys. Yeah, yeah, maybe some of the stops along the way, they only speak Chinese and they have chinese signs, and it seems like there's, like a concerted effort to get people in from China.

Hey, something going on? Yeah, no, just climate change. Oh. So simple, so nice to be able to just. That's just as bad as the, you know, people who break into stores in New York City, they're just hungry and trying to steal bread for their starving kids.

Yeah, that was a good one, too. Yeah, yeah. That lady forget, like, the, you know, the guys who go in and, like, steal 50 Apple iPhones from the store and run out and jump in their car or all of these other things. It's hard to believe that a person who's a member of Congress can say that with a straight face. Well, the best one was, do you ever see the conversation that she had with the news reporter where the reporter was asking her to clarify her thoughts on Israel and Palestine?

Tulsi Gabbard
Yes, I did. That one's wonderful. Nothing to say? It seemed like she didn't even know, like, where they were. Like, if you gave her a map and this had no names on it, like, which one is.

Joe Rogan
Which one of these is this? Yeah. Like, what do. What do you know about the history? What do you know about what happened in 1947?

Anything like what was going on before that? Who lived there first? Yeah, exactly. What's Judea. What's that place?

Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. What's the biblical significance of these locations? Any, you know, how long has this dispute been going on? Yeah. You know what's happening?

Yeah. How much are we funding this?

There are these girls who, again, I don't know where this video is. I'm sure it's everywhere now. But they were left, Columbia to go and stand with the students protesting at NYU. And somebody said, well, why are you here? They're like, oh, we're here to stand in solidarity with the protesters.

What is NYU doing that you're protesting? Oh, I don't really know. And then she turned to her friend. She's like, why are we here? What are they doing that's wrong?

And the friend said, I wish I was more educated because I don't really know either. Well, you know, they're just out there being virtuous. Somebody asked us to come, so we're just coming to stand in solidarity. Well, there's this thing that you can do now where if you just yell out the thing that's popular now, you become cooler than you really are. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
It's a new thing you can do. And if you're, like, really rabid about it, you know, and then you can demand other people do it on their social media. Like, how come you're not putting a black square up on Tuesday? Yeah. Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard
I mean, this, this. All of these things. I mean, these. These were major drivers for me in leaving the insanity of what has become today's democratic party and where I've seen and heard directly from so many people who are or have already woken up to that fact of literally just being common sense minded Americans who are just. There's no explanation, there's no logic, there's no rationale that you can give for these kinds of things happening, and not just by some rogue member of Congress.

I mean, it's happening from the very top. Yeah. And it's the consequence of money being involved in politics. And that seems like that web is so deep and those roots run so deep that to try to stop that now is almost impossible. It's almost like the only way to solve this is to give corporations conscience.

Joe Rogan
It's like, the only way to solve this is you've got to figure out, like, who is funding what and why. Why is so much money being spent on this versus that? And one of the things about AI is that if AI is asked at a certain point in time when it becomes sentient or really super powerful, what is the solution between the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, and what's the cause of it? And AI gives a real comprehensive analysis of the US government funded coup from 2014 and how NATO has been moving arms closer to Russia and lays it all out. And this is the definitive objective.

No ideology, no bullshit reason why this is happening. And these are the companies that are pushing the conflict, and this is the amount of money they're making from it. And here's the amount of money that's missing because there's corruption involved in Ukraine as much as people don't want to admit. One of the wildest ones was Candace Owens on Twitter, where the New York Times, they tweeted her, like, what evidence do you have of corruption in Ukraine? And she's like, from your own fucking newspaper.

She starts posting links. It's like, do you guys not even check before you tweet out? Do you not do journalism? Well, they were also the ones that said, the New York Times said that that bomb landed in the hospital and killed 500 people. And apparently it landed in the parking lot and killed a small number of people.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. And it probably was not from Israel, but was actually some. One of the islamic terrorists had launched a bomb and it accidentally landed in the parking lot. Yeah. And no effort to actually.

Truly not in the fine print on the back page of the paper, but actually make sure that they got the facts right. Well, and certainly no equivalent coverage of the actual true story versus the original story, which you should do. Like, it's like, yeah, maybe you got bad information. Explain how you got bad information. Same people read the newspaper, read this, now they know.

Joe Rogan
Like, let them know. Don't just fucking hide it. Don't pretend you didn't fuck up. I mean, it's the same reason why with Julian Assange, you know, back when, you know, his criminal charges were first coming up, they were saying, hey, this is a threat to journalism, that you can't suppress the free press. It is a violation of the First Amendment.

Tulsi Gabbard
And if you go after Julian Assange today, they could go after a New York Times journalist tomorrow. I think we were seeing it from the Washington Post and some of the other mainstream, traditional news sources, but the script was totally flipped and they shut up. Real quick and turned their sights against Julian Assange after he released Hillary Clinton's emails. Why? They're a political, they have become, unfortunately, a political arm of the Democrat elite.

And it's the same reason why they stopped reporting on actual corruption in Ukraine, because they get, okay, what's the narrative that we've got to push? And they're not going to go against it, not allow facts and journalism to get in the way of that. It's spooky. It's spooky for people that count on them for the news. Okay.

Joe Rogan
Now, who do I have to trust? Who can I listen to? And it turns out it's like a lot of independent people, and those are the only ones that are. They're free. They're free to actually report.

For now. These laws are. Did that TikTok thing pass? It did pass. So that's done.

That's it. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. Do you know Adam Curry?

Tulsi Gabbard
It will be challenged. I'm sure it'll be challenged in court. I don't know. I don't know by who or what the next steps will be, but I'm sure it will be challenged. Right now, I believe that President Biden signed it into law, actually.

I know he did. But the timeline of execution, you know, I think what they, they gave something like 180 days for TikTok to be sold to an american company. Oh, great. Give it to Bill gates. But, but even, even if that, like, you know, that that's a pretty, a pretty tight turnaround when you look at that.

But that doesn't negate all of the other provisions within that law that further violate our civil liberties. Do you know Adam Curry? I don't. Adam curry used to be an MTV vj. He's the original podcaster.

Joe Rogan
He's the podfather, the real number one brilliant guy. But I had him on the podcast quite a while ago, and he said that all this uproar over TikTok is total bullshit. He said, what it is, is the Chinese are eating our lunch. Like, they've developed an app that is more addictive and collects data just like our apps do. But, and we don't like it.

We don't like it because their one is way better. And so they're trying to do something to shut it down because they're using it to influence us. And like, hey, we're the only ones allowed to do that. And he, that's what he thinks. And when he said that, I was like, I never really considered that because I always was like, oh, this TikTok is, like, really bad.

You gotta, like, read the fine print, right? And it is bad. I mean, if you look at the. Just the terms of service, like when you're grieving, you know, the conditions that you agree to. Like, they.

They get to monitor your keystrokes. So that means they can probably monitor your passwords, they can probably check out all your emails. They get to monitor other computers that are connected to the network, even if they don't have TikTok on them. Like, it's bananas. But who else is doing that?

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah, exactly. Aren't they? That's the point when you and I. Are having a conversation, and then all of a sudden we talk about Toyota trucks, and there's an app for a Toyota truck. Like, hey, did you guys know that we were talking about.

Joe Rogan
Are you listening? Google. Exactly. What are you doing? Google, meta, Facebook, Instagram, all of it.

Do you know what I'm interested in? Right, exactly. Cause they're trying to sell you things. They're also trying to sell you things. Of course.

Tulsi Gabbard
Of course. Yeah. And the best way to sell people things is find out what the fuck they're talking about. What do you want? Yeah, I mean, it makes total sense, of course.

Like, Elon and X was. Well, Elon specifically was the only one who stood up amongst our american big tech companies to say, no, this is a very bad bill. The others, to my knowledge, were very, very silent, or they were actually coming out in support of it. But competition makes sense. The other piece of that is, other than X and TikTok, the Biden administration has been very successful at working with Google and Meta Facebook, Instagram in being able to control, quote, unquote, disinformation and information.

So when you look at, from a government standpoint, well, if you're concerned about data security and privacy, why aren't you doing it across the board and treating every social media company that Americans use with that same standard? Well, maybe they're just going after the ones that they can't actually control and intimidate into doing their work for them. Which is why it makes sense why Elon Musk and others would say, well, of course, if today it's TikTok, then why wouldn't it be X tomorrow? It's interesting to me that people don't seem to understand the value and importance of a guy like Elon, who's this wild billionaire character, likes to dunk on people. Like that guy being like, did you see that thing that he posted the other day?

Joe Rogan
Cause there's a. One of the guys who was like, from Facebook, I believe, said that what Elon is doing is corruption on, like, an Enron level. I think he compared it to. So Elon posted a photo of a dog laying its balls on another dog's head. I did not see this.

It was, like, dunking on this dude. I'm like, how wild is this guy? And then someone said, did you really spend $44 billion on Twitter so you can dunk on people? And he writes 100%.

Tulsi Gabbard
I don't know how he is time for this. I get it. I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense to me. Everything else that he's doing, he's a fascinating guy.

Yeah. I mean, his brain is a fucking tornado of information just flying around all the time. And I think it helps him to be able to just fuck around and be silly. But he was the only one that recognized that there's a real problem if you have the entire narrative being controlled by one ideology through all the social media apps. And that's what's going on.

Exactly. They're all tech companies. Tech companies have hired people that are coming from universities, and they're all infected by this ideology. And it's nuts that that's the case. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
And then they've done a really good job. If you go to, like, gab or any other one, especially initially, like, it was so nuts. You're like, oh, my God, I gotta get out of here. It was like going to a nazi party. Like, oh, like, even if you're not a Nazi, like, there's Sieg Highland in the corner.

Like, shit, I gotta get out of here. I don't know how. I never went in those rooms. I don't know how it is now, but I guarantee some of that was fake, too. I guarantee when they came up with these alternative platforms that people wanted to squash the idea of having people that were free outside of Twitter and Facebook, that were reasonable people, that just wanted objective conversation, which I guarantee most of them were.

Most of them were tired of being censored on Twitter and shadow banned and all that shit. So they try these other. Whether it's gab or truth, social or any of them, I guarantee you. Look, if I was an intelligence agent and I was inclined to do, I would get in there and start seeing Highland, I'd go crazy. I'd post the most racist memes and have everybody salute.

I'd go nutty. I'd have fake accounts liking those things and getting excited about it and reposting it, because that's how you make a place toxic. And that's how you kill the competition. Right? I would do that.

I would do that if I was running Twitter. If you were just a kid, I obviously wouldn't do it. Me as a person. Yeah, no, of course. But if I was an evil fuck, I would be like, this is what.

Tulsi Gabbard
No, it makes sense. How do you make it a place where people don't want to be? How hard is that to do? You hire a bunch of people to do it, you get algorithms, you develop them, you start posting memes and shit. Yeah, easy now.

Joe Rogan
You make it toxic. Now I look in there, gonna get out of here. Exactly. And so then you don't have an alternative. And you go back to Twitter and you just deal with the fact that you're being censored, and you deal with the fact that if you're a left wing person, you could say the most outrageous shit, even call for violence against people.

Twitter caught selling data to government spies while complaining about surveillance. In for a penny, in for a data mine. Is this recently? What is this saying now? That they have a deal with a company called Dataminer.

And what does Dataminer do? Uses AI technology to constantly monitor public activity on social media and other parts of the web. In doing so, its clients, often law enforcement, can receive customized, real time alerts. Of what? On what's brewing online, which helps them to respond to natural disasters, or more ominously, spy on protests.

Notes the intercept. Okay. But also does allow them real time alerts of what's brewing online. So you're not saying they're censoring people. You're saying that they're allowing them to look at data.

So that data could be like, how many people are posting about some sort of a protest where they want to burn down a church or whatever the fuck it is.

You're talking about a different thing than banning people from posting things, especially these people that are experts from Harvard and MIT. And this is a different thing. I've seen. I've seen. I mean, there's a data miner app.

Tulsi Gabbard
I've seen how the information flows through. I don't know what the. It says. The story revealed the surveillance firm pays for special access to a fire hose of data from Twitter. I'd be curious about what that fire hose.

Fire hose of data is. Dataminer has a unique contractual relationship with Twitter whereby they have real time access to the full stream of all publicly available tweets. But it's just publicly available tweets that are already available. So it's like a very high level search function. A company representative sent an email to the government agency, per the report.

Joe Rogan
So is that like a search function? Because it's all public tweets. So they have access to the stream of all publicly available tweets. But doesn't everybody have access to the publicly available tweets? Yeah.

Not with AI. Right. Software monitoring it. Right. But if you did have an AI, like, say, if you had an AI, whether it's Google's AI or any AI, and you said, hey, go look at Twitter, tell me who's talking about nazis, right?

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Curating. Curating the tweets that are coming into your feed. That's part of what he's been complaining about online, is how many people, and they've blocked access to many programs that, that did have access to the API because it costs money for them every time someone's taking that. So they just kind of cut it all off.

Joe Rogan
Mmm. Like, I used to use tweet deck to look at Twitter all the time. That doesn't work anymore. You have to pay for it. Oh, interesting.

Oh, interesting. How come? Because I honestly don't know. Arguably, it would just be like, it was a good feature. So, like, I might as well make people pay for it because they need to make money.

How much tweet that cost. It's part of the pro, so they pay for pro. Okay. And then there's the other thing where, like, Apple takes a slice of that. If you're getting it off of your iPhone.

Right. If you get from the App Store, if you. That's where. If you pay for it on, like, Twitter. On the website.

No, but if I use the phone app on your phone. That's what I'm saying. Apple's got the wildest thing going. They get 30% of everything. They have so much money.

They have more money than countries. There's a lot of countries that don't have as much money as Apple. Yeah, I believe it. It's pretty nutty that's being challenged, I feel like in a lawsuit, too. Yes.

Well, there's certain. There's certain things that Apple does that are thought to be anti competitive in it. Right. In kind of a creepy way. And one of them that they just recently got rid of is the lightning connection.

Right. So up until iPhone 15 or 1616, what are we on now? 16. We're on 15 now. So up until 15, you used to have to use a lightning connector, which only works on Apple devices right now.

You can use USB C, which is way better. It's better for data. It's better for connectivity, it's better for charging and faster charging, like the Android phones, like particularly like Samsung Galaxy. To go to full charge is like an hour less time because it takes faster watt charging than the iPhone does. And for the longest time, it would be much better transfer of data because of USB C.

It's just a better, more efficient system. But Apple's like, yeah, you gotta use. So the European Union, I think that was the problem. They couldn't sell them over there, made it illegal, so then they had to switch it over to USB C. So now everybody at least has a universal thing.

And then there's the problem with text messaging. So if you have an Android and you send me a text message, it comes out green and I send you one. It comes green because it's text, it's SMS. And so now they're going to adopt RCS. So the idea is, since you can't have imessage on everything, at least you'll have encryption and you'll be able to send large file sizes.

And that's what RCS is. Higher level of text messaging. That's been enjoyed by people who use androids, but not when they communicate with iPhones. IPhones were forcing people to use SMS. It's shitty, it's inferior.

You get blurry images and videos, not the same resolution. It cuts it all down, compresses them because it has to fit in the SMS format. So now you'll be able to share photos just like you will with an iPhone. With iPhone to iPhone. Interesting.

Yeah. So no more green, green text messages? Nope. The text message will still be green. Oh, interesting.

But now it'd be hard. Yeah. They want you to feel like shit. They want you to feel like shit for having a different device. I think I.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah, exactly. It works. It does work. The thing with kids, I think with teenagers. See if this is true.

Joe Rogan
I believe I read that it was something like 86% of all teenagers. It was some high number of all teenagers use iPhones. You're shunned if you use an Android, which is crazy. It is crazy. It's weird.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. But that's how tribal people are. We're tribal about our cell phones. That's nuts. We're tribal about the kind of computers we use.

Joe Rogan
Kind of sneakers. I'm an Adidas guy. Fuck Nike. People are crazy. 87% of teens in the USA have an iPhone, while 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone, according to a survey from investment firm Piper Sandler.

That is a monopoly. It's a huge monopoly. That is wild. Yeah, it's wild. And how they control their apps and how much money they make off of the apps.

Well, also their, their whole ecosystem is amazing. It's really good. Like, they figured out a lot of really good things. Yeah. Like, it's so convenient that I can write on my computer and then I could transfer it to my notes and it's automatically on my phone.

Tulsi Gabbard
Exactly. I don't have to do anything. I use it all the time. It's so good. Yep.

Joe Rogan
That's so good. You can do that with Samsung, you can do that with Android. You can do that. It's just, you know, you'd have to switch systems and like, relearn how the. It's not hard to do.

They're pretty intuitive. You know, I have a Samsung phone. I have an older one. I have a Galaxy one of the ultras that I used to think took a clear photo of the moon, but it's actually bullshit. Yeah.

Do you know that story? You don't know that? No, they got me. They got me. There was a feature that's still a feature.

It's kind of amazing. It's called moonshot. And so you could be looking at the moon. If you look at the moon with your iPhone and try to take a photo, it looks like dog shit. It looks terrible because it's just like this blurry thing.

If you zoom, it looks terrible. But with Samsung's, when you zoom in, it holds a square over the moon and it enhances it and it gives you like 100 x zoom. So you get this crazy digital zoom. You zoom in on the moon and it looks really clear. And you took a photo, but it turned out it was his AI because.

Tulsi Gabbard
No. Yes, because some clever Internet people, because you can't fool the Internet. What they did is they took a blurry image of the moon and they put it on a desktop computer and then took a photo with the camera of the blurry image on the desktop computer and it filled it in and made it pretty. Wow. You fucking.

Joe Rogan
That's kind of smart. That's a smart hack to figure it out. I've seen people try to argue away and say, well, it's actually no different than how AI enhances normal. Yeah. No.

Now you take a picture. You're talking about the moon. There's a lot of detail there. Yeah. What if there's a UFO?

I missed. Right? There's a UFO. Exactly. You're trying to tell me.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. The mothership is circling around moon and you're lying to me. You guys are liars. But the technology is actually superior on those phones. The Samsungs.

Joe Rogan
Oh, yeah, it's. It's quite a bit better. The screens are quite a bit better. The screens have an anti reflective coating on the new s 24 ultra. So even in bright sunlight when you're outside, you could read your screen perfect.

It doesn't, you don't have the glare that you. Trying to look at your phone like this. Yeah, you have to do that with. Interesting. You also have superior battery life.

You only have, like, a tiny little circle that's missing from the screen for the camera. You don't have that big ass stupid bar that's in the front for face id. There's a lot of things that are there. It has a pen. You could write on it, and it has AI features.

It lets you translate in real time. You and I can be having a conversation. You could be speaking Spanish, and it would show me in English in real time, and then I could speak to you in English, and it would show you in Spanish. So the phone gets split down the middle, so this side faces you and that side faces me, and we would have a conversation, and I could read what you're saying. And then you can wear these earbuds, and it'll translate it in real time.

Tulsi Gabbard
Oh, wow. Which is crazy. That's incredible. It's crazy. I tried using the Google translate app when I was down at the border and talking to different people from different parts of the world, and it sucked.

The intent, I think, was for that to happen is like, you just turn on the microphone, and then I could speak, and they could see in the screen like it's translating into their language, and then they could respond in their language, and you're just seeing it play out real time. But it didn't work. It didn't work. It just didn't work. The thing froze, or it didn't translate, and then you got to push all these buttons.

And then even then. Well, the Samsung one is using AI, and I think it's the most advanced version. It also has a thing where it lets you organize your notes in AI, and also it'll change the tone of your text messages. Like, it'll suggest things that are more polite or more friendly. Yeah, there's, like, modes that you can do.

Joe Rogan
So you can do AI for that. You can also. That might piss me off sometime if I don't really want to write a polite text message. Right. Well, then you don't have to.

You can write it in your own language. I mean, you can write it however you want. In your own voice. But then you can also ask it to make this more polite. Oh, wow.

Tulsi Gabbard
Okay. That's what it is. So it's not, hey, Tulsi, how about you be a little nicer, okay? There's not policing me. It also summarize webpages.

Joe Rogan
So if you go to a webpage. I don't want to read all this shit. Yeah. Give me a summary, and you'll instantly say, this is what's going on. This is the problem.

Here's. Here's what's the dilemma. Yeah. And you're like, oh, it'll break things down to you. So it's using AI on the constructive ways, but 86% of kids don't have it.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. Weird. The. Have you heard of this unplugged phone that Eric Prince is doing? Yeah, I have heard of it.

It's interesting. I just got one. I haven't set it up yet, but it is what they're saying is the most secure means of communication. Obviously, technology is never 100% secure, but the fact that it does not have the same ad id numbers that every one of our other phones has. Apple, Samsung, whatever.

Makes it so that we are able to protect more of our information than we would otherwise. Right, but do you get to use apps with that? Can you use Instagram? They have their own. They have their own operating system and their own apps, but you can also download whatever apps you want to download.

Joe Rogan
But if you download and they're the settings. The settings, you are able to actually make it so that Instagram is not able to collect the kind of data that they would otherwise. Yes. So what is it operating on? Like, what up?

Is it like graphene? Like, what is the operating system? I haven't set it up yet. It is. It is an operating system.

Tulsi Gabbard
They. They got the guy who, as their CTO who created the Pegasus system. Oh, great. You could trust him. That's.

That was my question. If you're gonna make. Well, first of all, if you're gonna make. Yeah. There's two sides of that, is if you created it, then ideally, you would know how to protect against it, right?

Joe Rogan
Yes, for sure. Or you would say, look, the kind of people that want a phone like this, these. Rah, rah, fuck the government. People like, these type of people that might get visited by the FBI, give them a phone call, like the patriot phone or whatever the fuck you want to call it. Make it a nice little honey pot.

I'm not saying that it is. No, no, no. Well, so I asked them, like, it sounds like this is the perfect kind of phone for people in the military or people are conducting different kinds of operations because of all of these protections and so on and so forth. And they said they're intentionally not selling to the US government because they don't want that doubt to be in people's minds that this is some kind of op that's happening that will allow some kind of surveillance to take place. Anyway, it's interesting.

That is interesting. There are other phones that do that. There's phones that operate on. They operate on an operating system called grapheneos. We take a phone, like a Google phone, and they de google it.

So they remove all the Google stuff and then there's a bunch of detailed instructions of how to do it. And then they put this new operating system on. And when the new operating system works, all your shit doesn't work, like all the normal Google services and all that stuff. It's a completely different operating system. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard
Theirs. They have figured out how to do both. You can toggle on and off. What mode do you want to be in? And it's got the VPN's and everything else.

Joe Rogan
Suspicious hippo face or. Hmm, yeah, yeah. Skeptical hippo. Yeah, yeah. If someone did figure something, like, out, that'd be great.

I asked Elon about that once. Cause I'd read this story about a Tesla phone. He's like, oh, God, I hope we don't have to make phones. But it's the way he said it. I hope we don't have to make phones interesting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause when you look at the interconnectedness between, you know, Tesla and you look at obviously the power element and then the car element, and then you look at the content platform that they are building x into, like, the vision that they have for it to be the one stop shop not only for all different kinds of media, but for, you know, payment and interaction and business, commerce and everything else. It's interesting when you look at that direction, it is also connectivity that if. You have a Tesla and I have one, I love it. You can't get Apple carplay.

Doesn't come with no Apple carplay. Fuck off, stupid. Use our shit. So what can you use then? Just their organic.

You can bluetooth your phone. Like, you can play music. Like, if you have Spotify hooked up to your phone on Bluetooth, you play a song on Spotify to play on that. Yeah. And you also have, like, there's a lot of options.

Like Spotify is built into the system Spotlight. So you could just like, tell it you could, like, press it, play notorious b I g and just start playing random song. You tell it what song to play. Interesting. You press a button, you say, hey, navigate to atv, steakhouse.

Bam. It'll take you there. Okay, so. And it's got this big ass, huge screen giant. Like, I don't know how long it is.

What? How long is the screen on our cars? It's like 18 inches. Looks like that's about 18 inches. Right?

And it's just massive map. Yeah. So, like, for navigation and everything, it's great. Yeah. But if I was gonna make a phone, I wouldn't allow Android or Apple to, like, have Carplay, right?

Tulsi Gabbard
Fuck off. Use my shit. Develop an X phone. Yep. I could see it.

Joe Rogan
I'm sure he's thought of it. I'm sure he's thought of it. Other than me saying that to him, I'm sure that's not the first time we thought of it. Yeah. Because if anybody could pull it off, it's probably Elon.

It's probably Twitter and X, whatever. Yeah. If they came up with a SpaceX phone, all the nerds would be like, gimme, gimme, gimme. Come on. Especially if it was good.

Especially if people move to more secure messaging systems that are end to end encrypted. Like signal, which also I get skeptical about, like, wasn't. I read something on some. One of them forums where they're saying that signal was funded by CIA money. Is that true?

Which is not. That's not good. And then there's WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook. Yeah. What?

Tulsi Gabbard
WhatsApp is not a secure form of communication. It's not? No. Is it Sus? No, it's more than Sus.

Yes, it's confirmed. Susan. How about that? Freedom of the Press foundation acted as Signal's fiscal sponsor between 2013 2016. The project received grants from the Knight foundation, the Shuttleworth foundation, and almost 3 million from the US government sponsored open technology fund.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. What does that say down there on Reddit? Article claims signals origins as a us government asset. Asset are asset are public record, and a lack of funding is because of the CIA found this article that makes a claim that signals origins as a us government asset are a matter of extensive public record, even if the scope and scale of the funding provided has until now. Does anyone here know what public records they're referring to here?

It says, if so, does anyone have links to these public records? This meat signal is a honey pot. Hmm. They also say that signal handed people over to the CIA. I like to know what actually evidence of that exists.

If it's true, that kind of sucks. That's what it says there. But Tucker said that he was communicating through signal and that the government contacted him and said, we know that you're setting up a meeting with Putin. Yeah, because we read your signal and he was like, I didn't know you could even do that. Well, this connects directly back to the FISA section 702 law because if they are surveilling certain foreign entities in Russia, then an american citizen like Tucker Carlson communicating with them, the government is then able to just immediately go in again without a warrant and saying, okay, we got to go before, you know, a judge.

Tulsi Gabbard
And even if they do go before a judge, it is a secret court. There is only one side that's presented, which is the government saying, we need to go and capture all of Tucker's data. For example, I have no idea if this actually happened. But let's say that's the scenario. That court, and this is public information.

That court approves. Ninety nine point nine nine nine nine nine percent of all requests that the government makes to go in and surveil american citizens, its essentially a rubber stamp, which is exactly the problem. But thats where I could foresee. Okay, well, Tucker is communicating on signal. This surveillance law that just was strengthened recently when Congress passed it and Biden signed it into law allows that to happen.

Joe Rogan
So its all bullshit then. So signal, unplugged phone, all that stuff. If thats the case, if they have the ability to read signals, don't you think they have the ability to read every single piece of information that gets sent from your phone? They can intercept it and read it. It just makes sense.

Tulsi Gabbard
I believe it. I don't know how you're going to protect that. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't understand how you could protect that with a different operating system as long as it's using the same cell phone signals. It's like, I understand that you're saying it's encrypted, but is that encryption impossible to crack? Like, isn't that, is there a source of that encryption?

Joe Rogan
Couldn't someone just get the phone and let's figure it out and back engineer it? Seems like they could. An interesting thing about, I asked this same question about this unplugged phone and if you're using, which I hadn't heard before about any other app, but if you're using their version of signal, their texting app, that you can do calls and FaceTime and whatever through with another app, on another unplugged phone. Every time you connect a call or you send a text message, it generates a new encryption key versus signal, which is when you download it and you set up your, you know, your account or whatever that is your key. So.

But would you have to have an unplugged phone for me to talk to you in that encrypted app? That's what I. Yes, I believe so. You would have to have it and. I would have to have.

Tulsi Gabbard
I believe so. Because I don't know that their app is available on Apple, for example. Right. See, that would be interesting if someone developed something that did that, that developed. The generation of a new.

A new encrypted key every time you're using it. Yeah. And starting a conversation. That's. But, you know, it.

Joe Rogan
Future race. Yeah. It just seems like they're the boundaries between people and privacy. Signal facing collapse after CIA cuts funding. Oh, Jesus.

This is an investigative journalist on a website. I then looked up his account. His account is suspended on Twitter or X. I don't know why, but this is an article that says some interesting things. Hmm.

But it's. I don't know how much of this is fact. That's almost why I hesitated to bring it up. It does say a friend of mine, so. Hold on a second.

Never acknowledged in a serious way by the mainstream media signals origins as us government asset are a matter of extensive public record, even if the scope and the scale the funding provided has until now been secret. The app, brainchild of shadowy tech guru moxie Marlinspike, by the way, that's quite interesting. He came on the podcast. He's not shadowy, did he? Really?

Yeah, he's on the podcast. Wow. Not shadowy at all. Interesting. No.

Like regular guy. Yeah, like, some of this is probably horseshit. Real name, Matthew Rosenfeld. How dare you, moxie. You have a fake name.

Was launched in 2013 by his now defunct open Whisper Systems. The company never published financial statements or disclosed the identities of its funders at any point during its operation. Sums involved in developing, launching and running a message app used by countless people globally will nonetheless surely significant. The newly published financial records indicate signals operating costs for 2023 alone are 40 million and projected to rise to 50 million by 2025. Rosenfeld boasted in 2018 that OWS never took VC venture capital funding or sought investment at any point, though mysteriously failed to mention millions were provided by the Open Technology fund.

3 million that we found. And that's the money. Oh, here we go. Yeah. Open Technology Fund was launched in 2012 as a pilot program of Radio Free Asia, an asset of the US agency for global Media.

Oh, boy. Which is funded by US Congress to the tune of over 1 billion annually in 2018. The then CEO openly acknowledged the agency's global priorities reflect us national security and public diplomacy interests.

That sounds sus. Is that super Sus? That's super sus.

I just like you saying super Sus. Yeah, that. That, um. That's a little iffy. It's very.

If it's true, if it's all or if it's not true, it's a disinformation campaign designed to cripple signal and to lose people trusted signal. Yeah. Perhaps that last thing there, though, is a separate issue of concern of the United States government funding us propaganda, essentially in different parts of the world. I would like to talk to real nerds about this phone, this unplugged phone. The real nerds.

I would like to have the real nerds look at this and go, yes or no. Absolutely. I'm curious as well. Yeah. Is there reviews of the unplugged phone by any of them super smart people?

Oh, but they have them. Brian Callen has one. Tulsa, you have one. Yeah. It says buy now, but I don't buy it.

Oh, so it's not pre order. It used to be pre order, like, till recently. I'll just show you what I saw. Hmm. Pre order today.

See? Right. It says the positive four nine would just go to the actual. I did. And that's where, like I said.

Oh, so it may be. It used to be. Maybe that was the link at one point in time. It said pre order. Okay.

Be interesting if people use this. But it's like, I mean, I need. I need someone to tell, is that. Is it 1900 bucks? Because I have two in the cart.

What are you buying? Phones?

I mean, it's not available, you know? Right. What if we start using those? I don't know. Yeah.

Tulsi Gabbard
It is very interesting because there are other phones that I've seen in the past who have tried this and not succeeded. And I don't know whether it was a virtue of, you know, the time in our country where people maybe just weren't that interested in having a secure means of communication or a secure phone. But people don't want the inconvenience. And most people don't have to think about this, right? So they're not thinking about the government looking at everything they do.

Joe Rogan
What are they doing? Right? Just trying to get laid and fun. Just trying to do normal stuff. They don't care.

But if 86 or whatever the number was, percent of kids use iPhones. They are locked into that ecosystem. Yeah. You're locked in with your photographs, you're locked in with everything. And, yeah, you've got Apple Pay and.

Tulsi Gabbard
You'Ve got the whole thing. Everything. All you need is your phone. You use your phone. I use my phone as a remote control to control Apple TV.

Joe Rogan
It's crazy. It's really. It's actually better than the real remote control because you could type on the keyboard instead of doing that stupid thing where you have to go, oh, gosh. Yeah. Letter by letter scrolling, you try to find a movie.

It takes five minutes to type it out. You just type it on your phone. Interesting. Yeah, the Apple remote control thing is fucking great. It's better.

The problem is when you have these walled gardens, like Apple's ecosystem, it's very difficult when you have everything over there. All your stuff. Exactly. Mail. You're there to jump off of that.

It's hard. Yeah. And most people don't ever do it. They just go, too much work. Yeah.

Like, whatever you're on, whether on Android or they're on Apple, but they try to make it easy. They try to lure you over. You know, they try to get you to switch. Yeah, nobody wants to do it. I think that's where it is.

Tulsi Gabbard
It is interesting to me that more and more people are paying attention to government surveillance, their ability to reach into our private information. And who is allowing that to happen? I think they count on the majority of us not being aware, and I think that is the case today. The majority of people are not aware and they don't think of it as a primary concern. The majority of people are way more concerned about climate change because that's what gets.

You think it's a majority of people? I think it's a lot of people. They'll say it, at least how much they know about it is weird. I've had conversations with people when they talk about, like, hey, well, they all agree we gotta act now about the climate. And I go, what did you hear?

Joe Rogan
Like, tell me what you hear. Just like, have a conversation. Let them just spill it all out. Like, don't even challenge them. Just let them spill it all out.

And it's like AOC talking about Palestine and Israel. It's like, um, I'm not really a centimeter deep. Not exactly. I'm not sure something's happening. They don't know what they're talking about.

And if you say, have you ever looked at a video of the difference in the shoreline from, like, 1987 to today? Have you ever done that? Have I done it? Yeah, I've seen. For Hawaii.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. What's the difference? It's bigger. It is. Hawaii keeps getting bigger because Hawaii grows because it's a volcano.

Joe Rogan
But when you look at the shoreline, a lot of places it kind of seems the same. And also these, like, fucking psycho rich people are buying houses, like, on the beach. Do they know something we don't know? Don't you think if they really thought that the oceans were going to rise 100ft in the next week, that the fucking insurance companies would go, hey, you're not going to. You can't buy that or even the next five years.

Tulsi Gabbard
I mean, you know, well, people are. Having a hard time getting homeowners insurance in California because of the wildfires. Yeah, that's true. That's a real one. That's a very big issue.

Joe Rogan
That's a real one. That's a real one. And, you know. But they're not having a hard time with it right next to the water. Yeah.

Like, no one's getting. It's not like tsunami insurance. Yeah, it's, you know, I mean, it. Like they even have that tsunami insurance. I don't know.

Tulsi Gabbard
I want to say yes. I bet that's, like, carved out. I want to say yes. I want to say no. I think if you're a dumbass that buys a $50 million house in Malibu.

Joe Rogan
Like, right on the. I want to be on the water. Like, hey, bitch, you know how much water's out there? We had, you know, the active volcano that we've had on the big island for so long. But the actual flow that happened through neighborhoods, when the floor of the volcanic shelf within the crater fell through, the lava went down and started flowing through all these lava tubes that were running beneath full, fully occupied neighborhoods.

Tulsi Gabbard
People had bought land and built houses in those neighborhoods. Knowing it was, I think it was a lava three zone, which is like you're building on top of an active volcano's lava tubes. You have to know that you're assuming that risk. Well, that when that happened, there were lava spouts and little mini craters that were formed within so many of these different communities. We were going around there.

I was with the head of the Rhodes division for Hawaii county, and we would go and look, and as soon as there was a crack in the pavement, be like, okay, we got to mark that one down on the map because that is, you know, the next day you see the steam coming up as though it's a lava vent. And then within the next day or two, you would have an active, like 2030, 40ft in the air, lava spewing up right in the middle of like a normal kind of suburbia ish neighborhood. And this happened 20 30ft. It happened in over 20 different locations within this particular area. And it was mind blowing to go there one day after the other after the other and see how quickly a beautiful little neighborhood turned into a complete bed of lava.

So this then begs the question like, well, is your home insured? Right? There was one insurance company in the entire world that would insure homes that were built in a lava three zone. Did they go under? Well, I don't think they went under because it's so freaking expensive.

Most people just didn't have it. Most people couldn't afford it. It's a gamble, right? It is a gamble and crazy gamble. It was amazing to see how so many residents there recognize, like, okay, yeah, we knew we were getting this land, it was pretty cheap, built a beautiful house, knowing that this possibility could occur and frankly, just, it was amazing to see their respect for mother nature and knowing, like, we chose to live here.

Madame Pele is doing her thing and we're gonna have to figure out something else. So what is going on right now in Maui?

Can I take a quick, quick bathroom break? Yeah. This is a good one to talk about, right? It's an important one. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
We'Re back. So we were just about to talk about Maui. So what is going on right now? Post fires.

Tulsi Gabbard
No one is rebuilding homes yet. The remediation effort is still underway. And the biggest challenge for the families who were directly impacted by that, who were left homeless, is the fact that they still don't have anywhere to go. You know, they've been put up in Airbnbs or in hotel rooms for a period of time on Maui, the hotels are like, hey, we need to be able to start welcoming in tourists back into the island. And so the governor is trying to work out a plan to be able to provide some form of semi permanent housing for people if they were to try to go out and rent a house on the market.

It is purely unaffordable. And there are a number of families who are now faced with the tough decision of, do we just pick up and go and move our life out of Hawaii and to the mainland? Which is heartbreaking given how many of those families, I mean, they've been in that community in West Maui or in Lahaina for generations. What is happening with the people that had mortgages? So if they had a mortgage and their home was burnt down and they haven't gotten money from the insurance company and they haven't been able to rebuild.

Joe Rogan
Do they still have to pay that mortgage while this is all going on? You know, I haven't heard that raised as an issue. I would hope that the mortgage company would recognize what's going on, but that's a good question. I haven't heard it raised as an issue from either residents or as part of the conversation around housing for them. Why has no one been able to rebuild?

Tulsi Gabbard
There has to be. There are, there are so many layers of toxins in the ground that have to be cleaned up and removed before people can go in and actually start to rebuild. But to speak of just the inspection and the permitting process and so forth. So the layers of toxins just from the fire. From the fire.

And, you know, you had, like, a gas station with underground fuel tanks that burned, like, completely to ash on the ground. The toxins that came from all different construction and everything else that exists in the environment. So all that stuff burns, it gets in the soil, it gets rained on. So the ground is contaminated. Right.

Joe Rogan
And this is the reason why they can't rebuild. Yeah. And they knew from the outset it was, it was a known fact that it would take, I mean, if it only takes a year, that that is an expedited timeline, is what I've been told. How long has it been now? August will be one year, August 8.

The most insulting thing was the $700.01 time payment from the government. Who said yes to that? Who allowed that? And at the same time releasing this number where they accidentally had sent Ukraine $6 billion. Remember that?

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah. They said, oh, well, we lost track of this $6 billion. And so now that we've found it because of some accounting error, now we can go and send it to Ukraine. And they were automatically assuming they were going to send that anyway. And we're going to be sending more, of course.

Joe Rogan
But no consideration at all. No. You know, I remember specifically when the fires had just happened, the White House brought in the director of FEMA to talk to the White House press corps, and someone asked the question, what are you, FEMA? What are you actually doing for the people who've been impacted by this tragedy? And the director stood there with a straight face and proudly said, well, we have provided a one time payment of $700 to everyone who has been impacted by this fire or displaced by this fire.

Tulsi Gabbard
And that was her big announcement that she was there to make one single one time payment of dollar 700. So that means you have 700 servings of ramen, basically. Basically. I mean, you can't even rent a bedroom in someone's house for $700. It's just, it's, it certainly can't for eight months.

Joe Rogan
No, that's what's crazy. No, $700 is so crazy. It's just such an insulting and ridiculous number. And the fact that they haven't given more, it's like, but yet they're flying people around on airplanes that come in illegally through the border. Yes.

Like, how much does that cost? Yeah, exactly. What does that program cost? Exactly what does that cost? Multi billions of dollars.

Tulsi Gabbard
If I had to. If I had to guess.

FEMA has other services. It's a lot of bureaucracy. It's a lot of paperwork. And residents on Maui, they were being told, like, okay, well, hey, if you accept this kind of aid from FEMA, you are ceding some sense of your sovereignty or decision making ability with regard to your land or your property. And all of the red tape, essentially, that that caused a people, a community who were rightfully skeptical about government coming in and saying, okay, well, we're gonna help you.

When that same government said, oh, yeah, hey, we may at that time, and the governor said this, and then he corrected himself later on, but he's like, oh, yeah, we're thinking about and talking about how we can turn this entire place, have the government take ownership of it and turn it into some kind of memorial or some kind of workforce housing, which obviously made people really freaking mad to say, like, well, who the hell are you to come in here and say you're just gonna take our land? You're just gonna take it and do what you want with it? So they're obviously very skeptical, and rightfully so, about, you know, the fine print. What does it mean if I accept a few bucks here or there from the federal government? What power am I ceding to you to determine my future, the future of my family and our home?

Joe Rogan
And unfortunately, the rest of the country has forgotten about it, by and large. Yeah, yeah. There's always a new thing in the news. There's always a new thing to pay attention to. There's always a new fear.

Tulsi Gabbard
One of the things that, that has just recently come out, first of all, the Maui police department, they did an audit of what went wrong. What did we do wrong? What should we have done better? And kudos to them for actually doing this. And I think they came up with, like, 92 recommendations on things that needed to be fixed.

They shared that with municipalities all across the country as like, hey, here are the hard lessons that we learned. You guys should take note and try to protect yourselves from having to go through what we went through. Other agencies at the county level and at the state level have not been so honest or transparent about their shortcomings. And the most egregious one recently that our local news in Hawaii exposed was the head of Maui's emergency response division. He was off island that day.

He was, out, of all places, a FEMA conference on Oahu when the fires happened. And instead of doing what any compassionate and responsible person and leader would do, you'd immediately get on the first plane out. You get a notification there, this fire is happening on Maui. I gotta be there with my people and I gotta lead my teams to respond to this emergency. It took him a few days to go back to Maui, first of all.

But the thing that was, and I don't know if you can find this, Jamie, but they released his text exchanges that he had with his assistant who was telling him, he's like, what's going on with the fire? Lol. And the assistant responding saying, ha, ha, ha. This place is like a circus. Their exchange was so, so disturbing.

Doesn't even put it lightly when, you know there are people who are being burned to ash, burned alive in their community and their text exchange is like, oh, ha ha, ha. Is the fire still going? Lol. Yup. Now it's going in another place.

I couldn't believe it when I read it. And this was the same guy, Herman Undaia is his name. He, he didn't show up and show his face publicly until like seven days after the fire. And then he went and he did one press conference and then he quit and resigned. But there has not yet, and I hope investigations are ongoing.

There has not been any kind of accountability at the various failure points that existed in this response. If the government wanted to take over that land, the best way to do it is to drag this out and make it so that people exactly have no other choice. They have nothing to do. They can't do anything and they just tell stories about it. We used to own that land, right?

There's a native hawaiian leader, famous surfer, navigator for the Hokulea and traditional hawaiian navigation, Archie Kalepa. He has been one of the most stalwart leaders for the community during this whole period in time organizing emergency response and food and shelter and, you know, community gatherings. People come and play music at the end of the day throughout this whole crisis period and has been leading the charge. He's very well respected in the community in holding that line and saying, we are not giving up our land. But as you said, it becomes a much more difficult argument to make when people, you gotta live, you gotta be able to make sure your kids have what they need to go back to school and all of it.

And how can you do that when you're in a constant state of transition with no real timeline where they're not coming and saying, okay, hey, you can go and start rebuilding on this date. Right? So they're gonna have to do something. What's the speak of the cost? I mean, like, building a house from scratch, right?

Joe Rogan
Crazy. Most people don't have that money. And then also, like, how long is this cleanup gonna take? And, like, when does it start and what do they have to do? It is ongoing.

Tulsi Gabbard
It is ongoing, but it is massive excavation. So it's ongoing. It is ongoing. Do they have an anticipated timeline? I heard from one guy they were looking at, well, hopefully, maybe.

It might be September, it might be October, but it's one of those things that one of the guys who's out there actually doing this is just saying, well, you don't know what you're going to deal with until you're actually dealing with it. It might take longer, it might not take as long, but it's one of those things that they're not figuring out as they go, but they are being confronted with things as they go. Is this one of those issues where you wish that maybe you still were in Congress? Yeah. Yeah, because at least you could be talking about it.

Because I'm not. That was my hope. And I talked with leaders in Congress and people who I still know there and just calling for oversight and accountability from the federal government because we saw many points of failure, everything from the immediate response to the whole water issue and the fact that there wasn't any water coming through people's hoses during that time. Now, why was that? The history of water on Maui is complicated, and it's largely attributed to that of the fact that the water is a privately owned utility and how that water is controlled.

There is limited use of water at different times, how it's controlled and where it goes. And there was a state water management official, apparently, who had some say in this of saying, well, you know, I don't think that we should turn the water on for this period of time because we don't know exactly what's going to happen. But my point is all of these things need to be very clearly investigated because people's lives and property were absolutely destroyed because of this. So was it because that water is a valuable commodity. They didn't allow it to be used by the people that were experiencing the fire.

There was some implication of, I don't know, it was like, well, we want to make sure that the water is being distributed equitably, and so we don't want to give it to one group of people over another group of. It really didn't make any sense what the argument was, but it was like, hey, you missed that critical juncture in that window because you were trying to ruminate. It was something to do with equity and some theoretical argument, rather than, this is a community in crisis. There are fires burning in various different places. We need to get water to people who need it.

Joe Rogan
There's also the thing about having above ground wires. Yes. Right. Which is crazy. It's a place that experiences storms in.

Tulsi Gabbard
A place that experiences storms. But also on West Maui is traditionally a drier part of the island that also experiences wildfires, even small ones, on a regular basis, that if they're not immediately controlled, you end up with what happened.

Joe Rogan
This is so disheartening that it's not receiving more attention. Yeah, yeah. This is, this is, you know, you look at all the things that we've talked about, what are they actually focusing on? Yeah. And that's.

Tulsi Gabbard
That's where the opportunity, and it is such a dire picture. You know, it's a time where we are surrounded by literally insane people who are making decisions that further their own interests and their desire to either hold onto power or grow their power at the cost of the well being of the people and at the cost of our fundamental freedoms. And that's where, you know, this election, our using our voice, our defending our freedom of speech by speaking the truth and speaking freely, all of these things and our engagement with them as Americans, as citizens, it matters more than anything else, because if we continue to go down this track, we will continue to see our freedoms undermined until we wake up one day and this will no longer be the America that we know and that we love. That's a scary thought. It is.

Joe Rogan
Until the last few years, I never would have thought that was the case. Same. I would be like, nah, we're going to be okay. Yeah. Now I'm not so sure.

Tulsi Gabbard
Yeah, because, I mean, we've gone through the political powers switch from one side to the other and back again, and you figure like, okay, well, I disagree with this person or this issue or whatever, but being grounded in and having the confidence in the constitution and these fundamental rights and freedoms is kind of like, okay, well, you know, we'll figure out the rest. But all of that, for everything that we've talked about, censorship and control and big government overreach and all of the government surveillance, all of these different things point to the very real risk and domestic threat that we face. Yeah, there's just so many factors that are simultaneously taking place. There's. There's surveillance.

Joe Rogan
There's the invasion, which is kind of an invasion. I mean, you can call the open borders. You can call whatever you want, but it's people coming here that aren't supposed to be here. And I'm for immigration, just for them figuring out who's criminal. Well, legal.

Tulsi Gabbard
And this is the thing. I've got a friend of mine who's about to retire. Special forces, Green Beret, served over 30 years in uniform, great american who has dedicated his life to service. He's about to retire. His wife is from a european country, and they want to invite her sister and her sister's family to come to the retirement ceremony.

Their residents of Italy, they have been denied a tourist visa to come to America for two weeks to attend this special forces warrant officer's retirement. How is that? And this is. These are like, hey, they got a family. They got young kids, they got school, they got jobs, and they were denied, saying, well, we don't.

You know, we don't think that you have. We don't have confidence that you will come back to your life in Italy. Hilarious. And yet again, people are coming through the border every day being picked up. Border patrol has become like this.

Uber drivers for people who are breaking our laws from the moment they step across the border into our country illegally. And, okay, so then they go out in the country. Nobody knows where they are, who they are. Are they really gonna show up for a court date in two years or three years? And nothing is really, truly being done about this?

Joe Rogan
Seven years. Seven years between then and the court date. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

It almost seems like it's all designed to erode our faith and to make this whole thing something that's way easier to control. Because the way our system is set up right now with, if you can express the freedom of speech, if you actually can do that, it makes it very difficult to really. To control a narrative. That's it right there. That's it right there.

Tulsi Gabbard
Control and power. And they're terrified of a truly free society where we can have a truly free, open marketplace of ideas. They're terrified of people being able to, you know, and I saw this when I ran for president in 2020. We're seeing it again in different ways in 2024, where they want to control what information you get about certain candidates, what information you're not allowed to see who is being pushed forward and who is not. And undermining our basic responsibility as citizens, which is to cast an informed vote and engage in our democracy and actually have a government of, by and for the people.

They're terrified of us doing that and making what they believe is the wrong choice. So they're trying to take away our right to do it so they can remain in power. And in their minds, I feel fully. I know many of these people and they feel justified in what they're doing, that they are the righteous ones, that they are standing up for America and standing up for democracy, so much so that they are willing to destroy our democracy to save it in their minds, which is a dangerous, dangerous mindset that we could see in foreign dictators in different parts of the world and throughout. History, it really is astonishing how few people are willing to accept that it still takes place today.

Right. They almost have this thought that those things have been sorted out and that, you know, that was the case in the past and even though history is filled with it and there's actually no instances of it not taking place. Right, but now, don't be silly. Right? Now we've got it.

Joe Rogan
Gonna leave hands. I had Jan Werner on here from Rolling Stones. Yon Werner? Yeah. He was trying to tell me that the government should regulate the Internet.

My government. The same people that lied about weapons of mass destruction? Those people? No, no, not those ones.

Everybody wants daddy, right? They want Daddy to come along. No one is gonna save you. No, exactly. Save you.

Tulsi Gabbard
That's it. People, Maui, know that. That's. They know that now. Yes and no.

Joe Rogan
No one's gonna save you. Yes. And we have to be aware of how fucking crooked the system is. Yes. And I don't know how we're gonna get out of it.

I don't. I don't. But I'm very happy that people like you, or at least you, have the courage to talk about it, and so few people do. And it's. It's a strange, strange time to be alive.

It's wonderful in a lot of ways. It's amazing in a lot of ways, but it's also. It's like, treacherous. There's a lot going on right now that's like. It really makes you wonder.

There's so much fucking subterfuge and shenanigans and so much money being funneled around and moved around. It's just like, whew. I think that's where there is, you know, there is a silver lining in what we have been through with, through COVID and through everything that's happened since. I think more and more people are waking up and at a minimum, just questioning what they're being told. Is this actually true?

Tulsi Gabbard
Looking for information and news from other sources than maybe they had been before?

And just what you said, no one's coming to save us. I think that is the message I'm carrying. I'm on the road constantly, and I'm talking to people, whoever will listen at events and on different media platforms. It's what I focused on in my book for love of country, the truth about what is happening in our country, the experiences that I had in the Democratic Party that caused me to leave the party and understanding that in this situation, and there's a lot to be fixed across both parties and the government. But in my experience and in the situation we are in right now with the Biden Harris administration, they cannot be allowed to remain in power.

We can agree or disagree on different issues, and it's good, and we should, and we should have those conversations. But when you look at the unprecedented abuse of power that they are engaging in, undermining their rule of law, politicizing our government entities, targeting Americans, targeting Americans who happen to be their political opposition, whether it's Donald Trump or the mom who's protesting at a board of education meeting to have a say in what kind of education her child is getting, this is happening across the country. And if we, the american people, don't do something about this and stop them and hold them accountable, what happens in these elections, if they're allowed to remain in power, they will. They will tell us, hey, you gave us a mandate. You said, hey, good job, thumbs up.

Keep at it, and we'll see. Everything that's happened just continue to escalate to a point where I have no doubt that our freedoms will be eroded to a point where it'll be virtually impossible to get them back. And where do we go from there? America no longer becomes the land of the free and the home of the brave. It becomes the land of people who are controlled by the government and forced to comply, or else.

And if you dare to have the courage to speak up and speak the truth or say, hey, look, guys, the emperor has no clothes on. Boys are boys and girls are girls, and that's just how it is, then you will experience the retaliation or the consequences of that action.

Joe Rogan
Well said. Thank you. Tulsi, show your book for love of country. Love of country. Did you do the audio?

Tulsi Gabbard
It is. I did. I recorded the audio. Excellent. There's a little, there's a little line on the top of the COVID there you might recognize.

Joe Rogan
Oh, it's me. I appreciate your words, your friendship, your support, and your being such an incredible, stalwart voice of truth and providing a platform for real discussion where people can come and listen to those who have different viewpoints, different backgrounds, different experiences, and maybe they walk away agreeing or disagreeing. It doesn't really even matter. But having this kind of platform is such a powerful thing for everyone to be. Crazy things that happen by accident.

Tulsi Gabbard
So I went and I was invited to speak at this Passover event a couple of days ago. But the guy who picked me up at the airport, his name is Avi, works in New York. Their family hosted me. And he's like, oh, where are you going next? I said, oh, I'm gonna go to Austin.

I'm gonna see Joe Rogan. He's like, I am like, he's like, I'm kind of pissed off about how popular he's gotten. Cause I was one of the ogs from the very beginning. He's like, I know the, the roots of the Joe Rogan experience. Anyway, it was just, it was, you got a lot of fans.

But he was particularly owning the fact that he knew Joe Rogan before Joe Rogan was, you know, the Joe Rogan experience. Isn't it funny that people get upset when things get popular and other people find out about something? Exactly. But people do that with bands all the time because it's like your thing, mainstream now. Everybody likes them.

Joe Rogan
It's like, everybody likes the thing I like. It sucks. Yeah. That's the beauty, though, of what you've done, is like, you've been you the whole time and there's, there's no, like, oh, Joe Rogan's gone mainstream and he's different or whatever. It's like you're, you're you.

Tulsi Gabbard
And I think that's what people are attracted to is just, you know, you are who you are. I think that's what people are attracted to with you as well. And I'm very happy you're out there, and I'm very happy that you created this book. And I'm really happy that he did the audio of it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
Because I don't really. It was, you know, I, before I recorded it, I do a lot. I do more audio books as well. Than I do. I read every now and then, but most of the time I'm actually like, if I'm on a plane, sometimes I read.

But yeah, most of the time I'm sitting there listening to stuff in the sauna or listening to something when I'm driving. For me, it's a use of time. Exactly. It's much more efficient. Exactly.

Tulsi Gabbard
It was, you know, I poured my heart into writing this book, and I care very much about the issues that we're talking about, and I care very much about our country. And so in some parts of the audiobook, you know, it was emotional talking about some of the experiences that I've had and while I was deployed and really truly conveying what's at stake and the responsibility. And so I go through a lot of the problems. It's important, obviously, to talk about the solutions and the call to action for every one of us as Americans. I don't care what your party affiliation is.

That's not the point here. I'm urging people to leave this Democrat party behind because they are abusing their power and undermining our constitution institution, just as our founding fathers did when they created these founding documents. They disagreed heavily on a lot of different things. They had fierce arguments and debates, but they came together around the most fundamental principles of our country that are centered around freedom, our ability to live in peace and pursue prosperity, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Now is the time that we have to come together as Americans around those foundational principles and get our country back on track.

That is the most important task for us as Americans. Otherwise, it'll be too late. Hear, hear. Thank you, Tulsi. Thank you, Joe, for being here.

Joe Rogan
Appreciate you. Great to see you. All right. Depressing. Goodbye, everybody.

Tulsi Gabbard
Goodbye, everybody.

Joe Rogan
Goodbye, everybody.

#2143 - Tulsi Gabbard

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1. Introduction and Warm-up

2. Health Routines and Cold Plunges

3. Hemp and Cannabis Legislation

4. Government Overreach and Media Influence

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