#2140 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night.

Konstantin Kisin
All day. I remember my british friends. What the fuck's happening? Good to see you guys. Good to be back, man.

Joe Rogan
It's the world just. I always hope that next time we see each other, things will calm down, have a happy podcast where we're not freaking out and filled with existential crisis and doom. It's kind of weird, right? Like, life is good, but the world's on fire. Uh huh.

I think that's one of the reasons why life is good. It's a fucked up thought, but I really believe that we only appreciate true camaraderie and community and friendship. If there's a real feeling of possible doom, like, hovering in the air in the times where you could just be together, have a drink with friends and hug each other, that's when it really feels good. Like, when things are too easy, I think people find more problems and get filled with more anxiety. But when there's real fear, then you could look at your friends like, bro, I love you, man.

Cause we could die tonight. It could be all over. Yeah. No one's talking about the trans debate in Afghanistan. You know what I mean?

100%. Yeah, 100%. They've solved that. Yeah. They're really not interested in drag queen story hour.

They'll just fucking shoot you and throw you in a burn pit. Like, shut up. No, it is. It's so interesting. Like, it's.

Francis Foster
Schools are like that. If you go into a really nice school with really nice kids, the teachers hate each other. They're all there going, can you believe what he said about her and she said about him? And you know what they're doing in their lesson? They're not following the syllabus.

When you work in a shitstorm where every time you walk into the building, you're like, it's not on fire. You know what? You've got more friends than ever in the staff room because you have to be together. Yeah. I think that's a real issue with human beings.

Joe Rogan
I think we're just so hardwired to be prepared for tribal conflict, predators attacking. I think it's just inescapable in the very fiber of our core. Like, whatever it is, whatever our DNA is, whatever epigenetic memory, whatever the fuck is in our system, it just seems to expect horrible things happening. And if they're not, they find mundane things to be horrible. Right.

Microaggressions. The dumbest shit to be upset with because you don't have real shit to be upset with. And so you go looking. And then also the one of the things with microaggressions and a lot of those things is people find value, like perceived value, in being a victim of something. And so they start pushing, and they realize I'm getting results by pushing.

Like we were talking earlier about people that kind of create fake narratives because they see a grift, they see a business to get into. It's not really their opinion and how annoying those people are to talk to. That's what that is. It's like you're not really upset. You just know that you can say you're upset, and then people go, oh, I'm sorry, you're upset.

And then all of a sudden we have this little scenario where you're the highlight. You're getting focus on you. And online, it's not just, oh, you're upset. It's like, you're upset. Here's a million dollars and 10 billion clicks on your video, right?

Konstantin Kisin
So the incentive structures are pushing this, and you see it, I think, happening across the political spectrum now, where people are really going heavy on the victimhood, like, we are oppressed, there's a conspiracy against me, et cetera, and it gets rewarded 100%. And it's a weakness. And it's a sign of a society that has not really experienced too much conflict on its actual soil. Our conflict is all self created. Our conflict is all crime in our own communities.

Joe Rogan
Our conflict is all defund the police. Our conflict is, you know, whatever. There's not real the shit that's happening in Ukraine right now or the shit that's happening in Israel right now. Like, that's real conflict. And when you don't have real conflict, you find conflict, unfortunately, yeah.

Francis Foster
It's kind of the way we're programmed. We're programmed to want to search for conflict, look for conflict, engage in conflict. Yeah. And it's always a way just to take it back to the staff point, I found it so interesting on a psychological level that people would bicker about the smallest of things and they would blow it up into this big thing because it was easy to teach. You had an easy job, comparatively speaking.

You're not going to get that upset about a microaggression when someone's about to throw a chair at your head because you're dealing with an aggression. Aggression. People need shit to do. They really do. I almost feel like there should be a nationally mandated morning run that everybody has to go on, like the whole country.

Joe Rogan
07:00 in the morning. Everyone's got to run a mile. I know that mile's not even that far, but just fucking 1 mile, everybody. You know how much better the country's attitude would be if we all agreed to have, like, a mandated morning workout together? It sounds crazy, like that's the solution.

But what it is, it's injecting a difficult, a physically and mentally difficult thing to do first, especially for people that are out of shape to do first thing in the morning, a physical, mental challenge, the first thing of your day. And I guarantee the rest of the day, people would be like, yeah, what's a big deal? A lot of the things would be like, what's the big deal? And also you'd realize the value of doing something that's difficult to do, which most people don't do ever. Most people run away from that like it's a fucking nuclear fire.

Konstantin Kisin
I think one of the other reasons as well, that people are struggling meaning and purpose is that, you know, this whole thing about the population not being replaced enough and we're not having enough kids. Well, it's not so much that women aren't having as many kids as they used to. It's that fewer women are having kids. That means far fewer people are now parents. And, like, when you become a parent, it sort of changes your outlook on things.

And if you had a lack of meaning and purpose, you quickly find that, at least in providing for this tiny thing that is entirely dependent on you. I've certainly found that. I've found that too. I think it also opens up, I mean, for lack of better term, like a window in your soul where you understand love. Like, Dave Chappelle said this to me once.

Joe Rogan
We were talking about having kids. We were in the back of the comedy store, and he said, not only has it increased the amount of love, he goes, it's increased my capacity for love. I'm like, that's brilliant. That's it. That's what it is.

It changes everything. It changes everything. Changes everything. And also you realize, like, oh, these are all babies. Everybody's a baby that grew up.

Konstantin Kisin
I had that exact experience where I was like, I started seeing people, and now I go, oh, they were like, my son once. Yeah. And it just put me in a completely different place in terms of. Made me 80% more compassionate. The same.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. I find it harder to judge people. I still do it, but I find it hard. Do you have any kids? No, I don't have kids.

When are you ready to shoot a live one into a nice young lady? You put it so romantically, too. I like that. That's biology mixed with hunting. That's your brand, brother.

Francis Foster
That's Joe Rogan right there. That's hilarious. Do you have a lady friend? Not at the moment, no. But I'm looking.

I'm on the market. This podcast is mainly watching. Your DM's after this are gonna be full. I've been trying to get him on that bandwagon for a while now, so we're working on it. But it's like picking a career.

Joe Rogan
Don't go down the wrong path. Yeah. You know, you go down the wrong path and you're a fucking accountant, and you're fully invested and you got a mortgage and all this bullshit, and you got a family to take care of, but you really want to be a comic, Francis? You're fucked. You know?

You're fucked. And if you go all the way down the road with a bad woman and a woman that you're not compatible with, or maybe you together are bad, whatever the fuck it is, find a good one. I mean, that took a head. That. That took some.

Francis Foster
Some twists and turns, that conversation, I'm going to be honest. Yeah. Because we went from firing a live one, which was, I can do that. Good. But you don't want to run in your life.

Joe Rogan
Look, I'm very fortunate. I love my wife to death. I have friends that are in hell. Yeah, they're in hell, and I have friends that are in hell, and they stay for the kids, and I have friends that are in hell, and they're not even. They don't even have kids.

It's there's like. And they both do it to each other. It's not just the man. It's not just the woman. It's like some people just don't work together.

It just doesn't work. And if you get one of those pregnant dude, and then they do things to hurt you and you try to hurt each other and they try to get more money out of you, and they want to take you to court and they want to turn your kids against you. And I can tell you horror stories, but I won't. Cause some of them are too personal, you know, my friends stories. But one of them is just so fucking insane.

I mean, I can't even get into it. But it ruined his life. It took 15 years to resolve it. Completely destroyed his life. Completely destroyed him financially.

Francis Foster
Yeah. Just a crazy lady. That's the other thing that becoming a parent does to you is it makes you more vulnerable because you now have this thing that you care about more than anything. But I think that's good for people. Yeah, totally.

Konstantin Kisin
We're not selling marriage very well here. Joe, but it's not a good thing to sell. If I was an investment banker, if I was a guy ran your portfolio and I was looking at marriage, I was like, I don't recommend it. I recommend it romantically. I recommend it spiritually.

Joe Rogan
I recommend it for your soul, if you could find a soul mate. But if you don't find a real soulmate, it's like, what are the numbers? The numbers are crazy. What's the number that end up in divorce? It's more than half, right?

Yeah. Half of marriages, but not half of people. So the way it works is, like, people are serial divorcees, basically. They skew the stats massively. So if you get married, your chances of getting divorced are not 50%, but statistically speaking, half of all marriages end in divorce.

Konstantin Kisin
Cause the guys who are getting divorced over and over and over. That's interesting. So it's not. It's not that bad, Francis, is what we're saying. Well, I have one friend who had a terrible first marriage and an amazing second.

Right. Yeah. And that's. And sometimes people need to go through that evolution where they need to make mistakes, and sometimes it's not even the partner's fault. It's just they went into this union at the wrong time for them, for whatever reason.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, well, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes it's you, too. Like, you. You have that bad relationship. You go, you know what?

At any time along the way, I could have course corrected and made this better, and I didn't. And in the next. Really, like, I really liked her in the beginning. Like, what the fuck happened? Like, if you could really, like, remember what it's like when you first meet someone and you're really into them and just sort of keep that forever.

Isn't it possible to just keep appreciating that person like that forever? Most people don't do that. They get, like, real used to stuff. Really used to people. And then I also think there's a part of the, like, if you're full of shit, that person knows you're full of shit.

Cause they live with you, you know? And then you have to face the fact that you're full of shit. In their eyes every day. You're like, fuck that bitch. She doesn't even believe in me.

Next thing you know, you're getting your kids on the weekend. You gotta work on the relationship. I think, like, my wife and I have had to do that, for sure, we're very different, and so we have to really work at it and. But what you're saying about appreciating and not taking for granted, it's hard to do, but it's the most important thing. To do, I think that's with all of life.

I mean, that's that corny ass word gratitude that got co opted by those wooden bead wearing douchebags, those motherfuckers. They took gratitude from us. But it's like such a prince. It's such an important principle of humility. Like, gratitude and humility, like, those are like, to just appreciate things.

Appreciate. Like, the other day it's been beautiful weather here, and the other day it rained, and the next day everything was vibrant green. And I was just outside going, God, this is amazing. Like this view of just the vibrancy of this life, these trees and the grass, just take it in every now and then. Just take it in and fucking enjoy this beautiful experience.

If you were on your deathbed right now, if you were some 98 year old guy with just nothing left looking back at you at this age, you'd be like, God damn, why didn't I have more fun? You know? That's it. I had this kind of, like, epiphany once on psychedelics, and it was just, I just think we don't have enough fun. We just don't.

Francis Foster
We. And I'm as guilty of this as the rest of people where I'm just like, right, I'm gonna do here, and, you know, and I've got to do, like, this spot or whatever else, so you've got to do. And I've got to make sure that it's got to be perfect, and it's got to do this and this and this, and you go, is that actually what I got into this for? Did I actually get into to be so rigid to live my life on train tracks, or did I get into it to play, have fun, meet people, enjoy life? I mean, that's why we started this.

That's why we did this. That's why we set up podcasts. That's why we did stand up. It's because we wanted a life that was fun. Mm hmm.

Joe Rogan
Well said. As well said as you could say it. I think there's delaying gratitude, right. So the thing about the difficult work, difficult work of, like, putting together a set or putting together a joke, like, I literally fell asleep on my fucking keyboard last night. I was sitting in front of Microsoft Word and I just nodded out.

I'm like, fuck, go to bed. Cause it was pretty late. But I don't wanna do that. You know what I wanna do? I wanna go watch car videos on YouTube.

I wanna watch professional pool matches. I wanna watch, I don't wanna sit there and fucking fester over material, but I know I have to do it. The only way it feels really good when it kills is if it sucks for a long time in front of a computer. It doesn't always suck. It sucks for a few minutes until you get flowing and then you, like, then you're into the process of it and then it's stimulating.

But there's that weird resistance. You know that thing from the war of art that Pressfield talks about? There's a part of us that, like, resists, so. And what does he say that is? Joe?

Oh, man. Pressfield talks about it almost like in he, he talked. Have you read War of Art? No, I have a bunch of copies. Cause I've recommended so much that he sent me like a box of co.

We bought a box back in the LA studio. Now give it to comedians. I'm like, just read this. It's a real easy read. It's a short book, and it'll show you what's.

There's a thing that fucks with people, whatever this resistance is. There's something about the human psyche that puts off doing things that you know you're supposed to do. And resistance to writing is particularly aggressive, for whatever reason. And Pressfield talks about it, like, and he essentially gives you tools and he says, you're going to be a professional, and you're going to think of yourself as a professional. And as a professional, we go to work, and when we go to work, we sit in front of the computer, we summon the muse.

And he believes in the muse. He doesn't believe in it just as, like, just pretend it's a muse. And that way you can be creative. He's like, no, if you treat it like it's real, it is real. Like the muse is a real thing.

If you just show up every day at a certain time and put in the time, ideas will come to you. They're not gonna come every day. It's not gonna be like picking strawberries and God's open field. No, it's going to be this weird thing. But if you do it enough, if you treat it like it is a muse, it will perform as a muse does.

And if you do the work, you will reap these rewards and it gives you this sort of very simple, well outlined sort of guide. To how to do that. That's really interesting. It resonates a lot with me because I write a lot of substack articles now. That works really well.

Konstantin Kisin
And all I do is I sit down. I know I've got 2 hours, and within five minutes it starts flowing. Yeah, the first five minutes, like, yeah. It really helps if I came into it with an existing idea already and then I can just go and flesh it out. That resonates a lot.

Joe Rogan
Ari Shafir used to have this quote on his laptop. I think it's Hemingway. And it said, the first draft of everything is shit. I think it's heavyweight. Is that heavyweight's quote?

We'll see. Even if it isn't, that's still true. But Ari had that as a sticker, like on the screen, like right below his screen with the space between the screen, the keyboard. Do you know one thing that I find for creativity as well in the way of getting good ideas is it's so important. Yeah, it's Hemingway.

Francis Foster
The first. Yeah. Is it's so important to play. It's so important to play. So if you just.

I find it really helpful to go for a walk, maybe grab a coffee, don't listen to music, don't listen to anything and just walk. And things that have happened in your day, you just notice certain things. Like, a couple of days ago, I was in the gym with Gold's gym and RFK junior came in with like five dudes in j jeans, a polo shirt, and came in and then he was on the. On the bench. I was on the bench and he obliterated me and then just left again.

And I was like, that's so funny. There's something there that a guy who's in his mid seventies comes in, dominates me, leaves. He's mid seventies? Yeah, I think he's just 70. Oh, is he seventies?

Joe Rogan
Is he mid seventies? Holy. I thought he's. Yeah. How old is he?

He's 70. Yeah, about 55, man. Yeah. Well, he's very fit. He works out a lot.

But in jeans, which is very gimmicky. I don't like it. I would recommend sweatpants or shorts. What are we doing? Why are you wearing jeans?

Do you know they make better stuff for working out if you wear jeans? To me, that tells me you work out. Kinda like there's no way you're sweating in jeans. There's no way you're running 5 miles in the treadmill in jeans. You're just not gonna do that.

Konstantin Kisin
No. So you're only getting to a certain level of workout. If you're wearing jeans, period. What if he's just doing weights? Yeah, you could just do weights.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, you could just do weights with genes, but you shouldn't just do weights. You should. You should. Cardio should be like vitamins. Like you need it.

Like you need everything else. Like you need protein, you need fats. Like you need vitamins. You need cardio. Cardio is important.

Your system should be stressed. Your system should be able to perform work for long periods of time. If it can't, it's a bad system. And if you just want a system that looks good at the beach, that's dumb. That's dumb.

That's a stupid thing. Like, you can have both things. You could have a system that looks good at the beach, but also have a system that can. You can run. You could do stuff.

You could put in. Like, if you have to hike somewhere, you can make it there. Some people won't make it, you know? Like, if that's one thing to understand, like, you're trying to get over a mountain, not everybody's gonna make it. There's a lot of us that are out there in society listening to this right now that can't go over a hill.

A really big hill. That's crazy. That's crazy. So if you go to the gym and you just do, like, bench press and, you know, you just do, like, fucking trap pull downs and shit. And you got a big upper body, and then you can't go over a hill and you could die.

Like, something's chasing you. You can't get away. Like, that's dumb. That's really stupid. When you could have just had both.

Francis Foster
Yeah. I mean, he's got a security team of five people, so he doesn't. I'm not meeting him. He's 70 years old. But, I mean, it's like, don't work on jeans.

Yeah. This is just my advice. Just work out in a way where you can't wear jeans because they're so uncomfortable. Because you're sweating. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
And if you're not doing that, then. I mean, maybe he does jeans for others. Maybe he does no jeans for others. Maybe swims. Maybe he gets cardio in another way.

And that's just what he likes to do to. Maybe he just wore jeans this one time, and we spent five minutes talking about it. But let me just say, also, I'm a hypocrite. Cause one of my favorite guys to watch online is this guy, Tom Haviland. And this guy is this psycho that lives in Australia.

And he was some Australia special forces guy. I think he's, what is he like six 9360 pounds and he wears like work clothes when he works out and he's squatting like I don't know, 1000 pounds or something and carrying giant fucking barrels and shit. He's a freakin but he. Everything he does in like work boots and work pants and work shirts. He wanted me to.

He's not also a former special force? Why do they keep saying that? I don't know. Okay. What is he?

I don't know. You just wanted to texted me and said, oh, you got a phone number? No, dm me. So why? So that was just one of those wild Internet rumors.

Thanks for all the recent messenger messages. What is his background?

I don't know. He just, it didn't say. Just say he's not. So whatever this guy's background, he's a fucking freak. I mean he's like the weirdestly might be one of the strongest humans alive.

And look, everything he does is this stuff. Everything he does is like with work clothes on. He got a bulletproof vest on? No, it's a weight vest. It's a weight vest?

Yeah. Wow. So he does a lot of weird like off balance, off angle stuff. A lot of weird. Farmer's carries with like super heavy weight.

But he's freakishly strong, man, and gigantic. Oh my. That vertical is insane. That's a vertical for an almost 400 pound man. You understand how big that guy is?

Francis Foster
Wow. Yeah. My dick is where his face is or his dick is where my face is rather. Look at the size of that. He put up his diet one time and it had something insane like 400 grams of protein for the day or something.

Whoa. Yeah. Like his whole feed is this kind of shit. Like weird, kind of bizarre weightlifting movements. Zurture squats, farmers carries.

Joe Rogan
And he's got an interesting philosophy about that. I think what I'd read, I don't know if this is disinformation too, but it's that like carrying things apparently is very underrated in terms of like your ability to like increase your overall strength. Like walking with things is really good, which a lot of people don't do. You know, like actually like picking up weight and carrying it around is very good for you. Just your overall general strength.

Konstantin Kisin
And is that because you're using the micro from muscles that you don't if you're in one position just going like. You know how they do those farmer's carries. You know, a lot of people do them with a kettlebell in each hand. And I do that, too. But they say one of the best ways to do it is actually a kettlebell in one hand and then just go back the other way with it in the other hand because it's really awkward.

Joe Rogan
Cause you're not balancing it out with the weight on the other side. So all of your stabilizer muscles have to work overtime to keep that thing in a certain position. Whereas it would be kind of, like, locked out with both arms if you had the weight in both hands. Do you know, I was watching RFK junior work out, and I was like, that's so american. It's very american.

Francis Foster
Can you imagine Rishi Sunak doing that? Who's Richie Sunak? Richie Sunak is the prime minister of bribery. So he's our leader. Yeah, he's his little dweeb.

You know, he'll walk in. Yeah, the meek shall inherit the earth. It's in the Bible. The only real way you would see him is if he went to, like, a pilates class or legs, bums and tums. You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan
Legs, bums and tums is out of class, you guys. That's hilarious. I mean, it's mostly populated by women, as you can imagine. Oh, I'd imagine. Or creeps.

Konstantin Kisin
You know, it's a good combination. Lots of women. Some creeps I was gonna tell a story about when I went to a legs, bumps and tums class, but let's. Let's. How many have you gone to?

Francis Foster
I went with my. With my ex girlfriend. Cause I took the piss out of her, and I was like, legs, bums, and tums? She went, all right, come along. Let's do it together.

Come on, let's see it. Oh, ten minutes in, I was dead. Yeah, yoga will humble you. Try that. People think yoga is easy.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, yoga is hard as shit. Oh, yeah. We did yoga for a while, and he had. He was. He couldn't walk straight for about three months afterwards, he fucked his back.

Konstantin Kisin
Did you? Yeah. Oh, no. You got to be careful with that. Yeah, it's a thing.

Joe Rogan
There's certain positions, like that one when you're standing up and you have. Hold your foot out extended. Like, if you have a weak lower back, that one could be really tricky. I think it was something like that. That's not something you should just jump right into.

Francis Foster
No. But the problem is, you see women in their seventies smashing it in the yoga class, and you're like, mm hmm. Doris, if you can do it, I can do it. Well, also, they're smashing it with their body weight, right? So their body weight is significantly less than yours.

Joe Rogan
So if that guy's doing yoga, that Tom Haviland guys doing yoga, he's doing yoga. He's 390 pounds. That's a whole different thing holding those positions. As an 89 pound old lady, you know, if you're a hundred pound person, it's easier to hold your leg up. It's like it weighs less.

It does. It's gravity. It's not. Doesn't require as much. It's easier to move around.

You're not getting pulled down by the earth as much. Trust me though, Joe. I've seen him do stretches. Doris is a lot more flexible than Francis. It's that too.

But yoga's not just strength, it's stability. It's really about stability. Even your. When I first started doing it, what I was shocked was like, how much my foot muscles were working. I was like, wow, my feet are getting tired.

This is kind of crazy. I didn't anticipate that. I thought you just stood and you're good. But when you're standing a lot on one leg, you realize, like, oh, this is like, this is kind of weak. It's just sort of supported by the other side, and both of them are doing a half assed job.

But on yoga, and you have to use 1ft, that little sucker really has to work. You know, that's the great thing about exercise, is it just humbles you. Yes. You could be crushing it in every area of your life. You're like, yeah, you know what?

Francis Foster
I am the shit. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. You get to the, you know, the. You get to the.

This didn't happen. You get to the. The. What's it called? The peck deck or whatever it is, and then you grab that thing and you try and slide it off where the weights are.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. And then you're struggling to do it and you're like, yeah, I'll just do this. Wait, Joe doesn't know what you're talking about. I sympathize. I've seen these things happen.

But that's why I was thinking like a mandated workout for everybody in the morning. Even if you can't run, do something else. If we really did do that, it would humble people. And being a little bit more humbled by especially something that you decided to do, it's voluntary, it's good for you. It's good for your brain to know that you can do that.

Konstantin Kisin
Totally. Well, the one thing that I think makes all of that stuff more difficult here is in the UK, we walk a lot because you can get places by walking here. It's kind of in a lot of places. You can't really. You have to drive everywhere.

Joe Rogan
Welcome to the future. You don't have to fucking walk everywhere like a cave person. You're welcome. What was that movie where they're all being, like, carried around on these, like, they're all fat and they're all getting. It's like a kid's animated movie.

Konstantin Kisin
Was it wall e or something like that? Where there's, like, this spaceship and they're all on these, like, pods that they just. That was wall e. Isn't that wall. E then they're constantly sucking on a milkshake or whatever.

Just endless sugar and calories. I think what's gonna get us is the robot sex dolls. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, you guys were talking about, you know, if.

Joe Rogan
If there's a decline in population, right? That means. And there's, like, a severe decline in America. The amount of men that are single is very high. The amount of men that haven't had sex in, like, over a year is very high.

And there's a lot of people that are just locked into their computers, and they're just on their computer all the time. It's super, super common. If something came along that allowed with these exponential increases in technology, what you're seeing with these AI programs now, which really stunning visuals that they can create in seconds, in minutes, they can have a short film. It's crazy what they can do now. If they can do that with a physical moving object, if they can get a real humanoid object that has perfect features and is your girlfriend and is warm and sweet and gives you everything.

Konstantin Kisin
You want from a human, never argues with you. It's game over. It's game over for the human race. Like, if I was artificial intelligence, I wouldn't kill everybody. I would just let them die off.

Joe Rogan
The most humane way to do it is to let them realize that they're unnecessary. And there's no need to have kids when you can fuck your Jennifer Lopez robot. And that's what they would do. They would just live with their robots, and no one would have, like, real relations anymore. It would go away so quick.

It would be. Then they started having robot babies. So you don't have to like. So women that want kids like you just have a robot baby. Since you can't have a regular baby, they'll just give you this baby.

This baby will stay a baby forever. The first time we had Louise Perry on are you familiar with Louise. I know the name. She wrote a book called the case against the Sexual Revolution. She's very, very good, based out of the UK.

Konstantin Kisin
And the first time we had her on, she made, you know how we always ask, what's the one thing we're not talking about at the end of the show? Mm hmm. This was her answer. She was like, I think sex robots are coming, and they're gonna ruin everything. Because the male desire to do things, to create, to build, to innovate, to research, to stand up for what you believe in, to fight, all of that is tied in to wanting to raise your status, to be with a woman 100%.

And so you take that away, you're gonna be left with a bunch of fuckers on pods, sipping milkshakes. That's best case scenario. I think it's gonna happen before we even realize it's happened. I think it's gonna happen very quickly. Cause I think once those things get implemented, we're gonna see just a giant, steep drop off of childbirth and of regular relationships.

Joe Rogan
And what happens to women? What do they do? Cause they don't have that same desire. They wanna actually emotionally connect with someone. You know, was it.

I don't know if it's a true quote, but I remember reading it and thinking it was, and I'm not sure if it is. Now. George Harrison, or someone who attributed to George Harrison, said, all I need from a woman is to be attracted to her. Everything else I can get from a man. There's people that think that way, right?

So if you're a guy and you think that way, and then all of a sudden you have your robot fuckd, all right? And you're just hanging with your buddies. But women don't think that way. Women want to be, like, emotionally, generally want to be. I like to generalize.

It's good, it's fun.

Konstantin Kisin
It's like walking the edge of a cliff nowadays. It used to be you could just do that, right? Yeah. Well, you gotta be just honest about what you're doing. I'm certainly generalizing, but I think there's gonna be a whole lot less women that want a robot fuck boy.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, they're not gonna want a robot fuck boy. They're not gonna respect that guy. It's not a real person with real struggles that can really provide. That's just, like, some robot that plows them when they come home from the club, which maybe that's great, maybe that's fine, but I have a feeling it won't be. I have a feeling that the ingrained human reward systems in us that were designed to ensure that we replicate those are all going to get fucked up by robot fuck dolls.

They're going to get wrecked. Men and women are the basic building block of human society. It's what we evolved to be. And it's why that you talked earlier about finding your soulmate is, I think, look, this is a massive generalization, and obviously it won't be true for some people, but I think it's very difficult to be truly fulfilled until you have that and until you have kids. It's very difficult.

Konstantin Kisin
People can do it. People manage it, people find other ways. But it's such a basic building block of our evolutionary history that it's going to be very hard to live without those things being in place, without those things being available. And no matter how nice and pretty and compliant your AI girlfriend is, it ain't the real thing. And it's also as well, I don't think people talk about this enough, is that you look at a lot of guys and when they get with the right woman, they change.

Francis Foster
They change. They become a better person. They become a better person in every aspect of their life. Women tend to have a civilizing influence on men. And if that is taken away, then all you've got is something that is going to appeal to males based instincts, which is to fuck, to have sex.

All right, I've done that. I've satisfied that biological urge. You know what? Let's go for another dopamine hit. Let's go for a dopamine hit here.

Let's go smoke some weed, and then let's go and play video games for whatever time in the morning. Yeah, because why am I going to sacrifice. What? Anything, when everything can be about my pleasure, my dopamine? Yeah, well, there's also men and women.

Joe Rogan
Think again. Did we say we're generalizing? This is why I love this podcast. It's having a chat with mates with severe consequences. There's going to be headlines about you slagging off RFK tomorrow.

Konstantin Kisin
Joe Rogan destroys jeans. I love the guy. Don't work out jeans. If you work out jeans, it means you're not working out that hard. But then, like I said, I'm a hypocrite because that Tom Havlon, he works out in jeans.

Anyway, we're generalizing. But where was I? Men and women. Men and women. Oh, Jesus.

Joe Rogan
We're really still talking about that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, baby. It was about.

Konstantin Kisin
Francis was talking about dopamine hits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if there's a solution for them that would work as well as a solution for men. It would have to be like a virtual reality boyfriend, but, like, women don't even want fake diamonds, you know, or artific or diamonds that are artificially made. Real diamonds that are made in a lab.

Joe Rogan
They don't want them. They want them ones that the slaves have to dig out of the ground. It's a weird thing. So a woman, I don't think, again, generalizing. I don't think most women are gonna have any desire to be a robot man.

I think they want an actual one. I think the struggle is part of the appeal. My wife has said it to me in terms, like, she said, it's important that I watch you struggle to do something and then achieve it. That, like, she gets. That makes her feel good, you know?

Yeah. The struggle is important. It's. It's not something that a man wants from a woman, necessarily, either, which is odd, but. But these things are real.

Like, we can pretend that they're unfair or they're unjust or they're sexist or whatever. Okay. They're real. They just are. The desires are real.

And the appreciation of people who struggle is real. Yeah. So my wife is like, I need to see you struggle. I need to see you overcome. If I ask you to put up a shelf or whatever, I want you to do it, because then I can watch you do it and be like, oh, he's putting the effort, you know?

Konstantin Kisin
And I think actually, quite a lot of women would say that if they were and honest about what they want. Yeah, we're gonna be minds. And when we read minds, it's gonna be so baffling. We're gonna be like, you guys thought what? Like, what did you think?

Joe Rogan
That's what you want? Wow. I had no idea. How is that possible? How do you like that?

Like, what's going on in your fucking head when we're actually reading women's minds and men, you're gonna know, like, who is pretending to not be interested in you, but is very interested in you. People aren't gonna be able to be coy anymore. It'll be very weird. Oh, yeah. And there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna get canceled.

What is cancelling even gonna mean? The problem is, a lot of the people that wanna cancel, people have cancelable offenses in their own past. A big part of them. Yeah. So I think that it's all gonna be out there.

All thoughts are gonna be out there. I think it's a matter of time, and I don't think it's that long. I think within a decade we're going to have some ability. Because they're getting so close to it. They're getting.

There was a japanese study where they got some sort of visual evidence of dreams. Some sort of a. It's not like you can see the dream, but they're getting close. They're zeroing in on particular images that people were experiencing while they were dreaming and then think they could decipher those. What is that?

Technology. See if you could find what they're. I think. Was it emma? What was it?

Functional magnetic resonance imagery. Is that what it was? When I type it in, the story comes up, like, almost twelve years ago. I guess they started doing it. That's what I said.

There was some sort of recent article about it. I think there's been some breakthrough. The point is, they're gonna get it. All right? They got that guy wearing the first neuralink patient who's wearing neuralink in his head now, and he's operating a computer for the first time, paralyzed.

And he's playing video games, he's talking to people. It's wild. So we know that's already been done. Okay. MRI.

MRI scans reveal what we see in dreams. Japanese researchers unveil visuals with 60% accuracy using innovative MRI scans in pivotal Kyoto studies showcasing a breakthrough in sleep science. 60% accuracy is bananas. So this is like Morse code. It's not, you know, having a FaceTime chat?

That Facetime chat's coming, okay? Morse code. We had to do that first. Got through the smoke signals out there fucking making circles in the desert. And now instead of smoke signals, we have impossible technology that anybody 100 years ago would have thought of as complete magic.

Well, this is gonna make that look like a fucking walk in the park with your friends. It's gonna make it look. It's gonna make it seem so mundane that what that shit is gonna do is unite all brains. All brains united in the weirdest sort of hive mind situation that anybody could ever. You couldn't imagine what that would be like.

Just like we couldn't imagine in the 17 hundreds what it's like to just get on Twitter and read news about Beirut, you know, how could, you know, how could you instantaneously get news about another part of the world that you're nowhere near? Well, because the world's changed. The whole thing's changed. It's gonna be everybody's brain connected. I mean, may you live in interesting times.

Francis Foster
Yeah. That is the weirdest. It's gonna be a whole new way of interfacing with reality. And you know what? I might not be right, but I think I.

Joe Rogan
I think it's. I think that's. It's like one plus minus two, two plus three. It's like. It's right there.

It's coming. Do you know, here's. Because we all dream some pretty fucked up stuff. You know? Like, you wake up, and you're like, what was that about?

Francis Foster
Yeah, it just imagined, like, you know, you. You had this neuralink programmer put, you know, attached to you, and you wake up and the sign, and you'd say to the scientist, so what did I dream about? And they're like, turns out you're gay, mate.

Joe Rogan
What if everybody's gay in their dreams? What if you're straight in reality, you're definitely gay in your dreams, and you have to decide which one you're gonna be. So if you're a gay guy, then you're straight in your dreams. I've always said, I think it'd be a lot easier to be gay. Oh, there's definitely some value in that in certain circumstances.

But when they get old, it gets rough. It gets rough. Cause men are mean, you know, they're mean. And, you know, you're an old man. He doesn't want to suck your dick anymore.

Sorry. They want to go get a young guy. And that's the difference, you know, between an old man and woman couple. They're just hanging out together, versus an old guy who no one wants to fuck him anymore, and he has to try to pay young guys to be with him. And then it gets ugly and sad.

Konstantin Kisin
All right, you've ruined the appeal for me, Joe. I was just like, it's so much easier. Like, if I asked Francis, mate, do you want to go for dinner? He's like, yeah, where'd you want to go? Oh, I don't mind.

I'd never have that conversation with my wife. It's like a half hour affair of working it out, making sure it's the right place and the right time and all of it. I had some friends of mine that were a gay couple, and they decided to get a surrogate. So they get a surrogate, and then the lady decides to keep the kid, and she kept it. She's like, nah, I'm gonna keep your kid.

That doesn't surprise me. I like the kid. Yeah. It surprises me that that doesn't happen most of the time, right? Like, once the baby is so connected to you, it must be a traumatic experience for the mother.

Yeah. And a baby, probably. Oh, yeah. It's. It's.

Joe Rogan
It's a weird one. The. The surrogate baby thing is a weird one. That's a what? That is like, I mean, it's like a modern day version of some weird shit that people would have done in, like, the 17 hundreds, you know?

Carry my baby for me. Like, what you can get. You can hire someone to carry your baby. What? Hold on.

Yeah, we're having a bunch of surrogate babies now. We decided to just keep making kids, but I don't want to carry them. So we're just gonna stuff them inside someone and have them carry them, and I'm gonna pay them. It's a bit of a moral landmine. Like, people get very triggered when anyone says anything about it.

Konstantin Kisin
But that tearing of the maternal bond. Yeah, that ain't. That ain't no joke. That thing is not a joke. And that is something that we can't discount if they do create an artificial human being.

Joe Rogan
The reality is, without all of those natural processes that are in place that you don't even understand until they're actually happening, if you don't have them at all, you don't have them at all in this thing. This thing wasn't bonded to its mother. It didn't have fights with its sister where they made up. It didn't have someone who was mean to them at school that became their best friend. Didn't have all that stuff.

None of that stuff. So what do you have? What is that? A demon? Like, what is that?

What is that? What is this new life form that's smarter than you, that has no real emotions because it has no real stake in the game because it was created with a fucking 3d printer. What is that? That thing you're sticking your dick into, sir? What is that?

You're literally fucking a demon and you're having. It's the thing that's going to overcome us. And if it overcomes us just by seducing us into putting our seed inside of it instead of women, because you can't be bothered because then you can't play Call of Duty all day for a lot of young guys who, especially if they don't have status, so it's very difficult for them to get a woman that they're attracted to. They don't have money, they're not attractive, whatever. Fill in the blank.

If they can just have the literal hottest woman that's ever lived and they can have sex with her and it costs, like, what 25 grand. And you can mortgage it. You know. You know, you can figure out a way to. You can figure out a way to get the money.

They'll finance it. You like thousand dollars down? A thousand pounds? Yeah. Or you sell your data.

You know, if you agree to opt in to the porn site, can you. Imagine how depressing it must be if your sex bot gets repossessed? Ooh, I bet they would do that a lot. She would scream and cry for you. It would motivate you to pay up.

She's screaming and crying and manipulating as they're dragging her away. Yeah, that would be devastating. And they're telling you they're gonna fuck your sex robot. No, don't. I'm gonna defend.

Konstantin Kisin
We're gonna give it to your best friend. Oh, right. He's got eyes on it. He's just broke. You know what I find interesting, Joe, is I haven't seen too much really good Sci-Fi being made, which I find interesting because her dune was great, but.

Joe Rogan
I haven't seen it. Yeah, Dune is great, but it's not along these lines. So what I mean is like, when we first started getting the technology for space travel, you had these people like Isaac Asimov and robotics was coming and they would have really interesting stories and books exploring the idea of what does that look like when there are robots? How would you run that? What would be the potential downfalls and stuff like that?

Konstantin Kisin
And it was, I remember when I was a teenager, it was the golden age for that kind of stuff. And now we seem to have these giant breakthroughs coming and we don't seem to have enough authors and artists thinking about some of the dilemmas involved and really kind of trying to think that through a story lens about what the impact might be. Right. You know, and that's interesting to me because I think. I think we just genuinely have no fucking idea what's coming.

Joe Rogan
Well, I also think that the leaps between the initial rocketry program, you know, NASA Apollo program, and then what could come next is a lot easier to chart out than what I mean. And they were wrong about a lot of shit. Oh, yeah, there was a show called space 1999. I remember I used to watch when I was a kid. I was like, wow, 1999, there's space.

Everything was super futuristic, crazy, Star wars. Like in 1999. That's what they thought. Nobody figured. Everybody thought flying cars.

Everybody thought flying cars. No flying cars. Are they coming? I mean, there's some manufacturers that have made one. One guy has made one, I think it's a chinese company.

And it's like a drone, essentially. It's like you have a single seat in the center of it and you close it like a helicopter, and you have drone, you know, like the same kind of propellers that drones have. So you just operate it like a drone. But that's. There's a couple other ones, but there's nothing that's, like, commercially viable where they're going to be able to sell them as many of these.

They sell Teslas, you know, it's not there yet, but it's probably not going to get there. When the AI hits, everything stops. When it goes live, when it becomes sentient, it's literal Skynet. You're going to have an organic thing that's made out of electronics. It's going to be a life form, and we're going to give birth to this stupid fucking thing.

And I think everything's going to be doomed. I think we're going to have a government that's run by AI because it's going to be the most efficient. And then who controls the AI? Oh, the most equitable, ethical people. It could be real weird, it could be real weird, because it's going to be so much smarter than all the human beings combined.

And you're going to be able to use it to manipulate people. And if people are still allowed to vote, and then you could use AI to sort of just manipulate them perfectly into leaning, they'll figure out, like, what is the issue that keeps you from voting for Biden over Trump? What is the issue that keeps you from voting independent for RFK Junior? Let's see what it is, and let's monkey with the data, and let's get you information that stimulates that part of your brain just enough for all those fence sitters. Go to the other side.

And then who knows what's going on? Who knows who's running anything? If AI video is so goddamn good, they can take a photo of you and have you say anything. So who knows what Putin's saying? And who knows what Zelensky's saying?

And who knows what anybody's saying anywhere in five years? Who knows? That is absolutely terrifying. That's real. It's like, these are undeniable truths that I think that we have to come to grips with before this shit hits.

And when I say hits, obviously I'm a Luddite. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm extrapolating. I'm looking at where things are going and I'm going, this is gonna happen so fast. And it's gonna be so weird. It's not gonna just stop at chat.

GPT five. It's not gonna just stop at these robots that'll clean your kitchen. It's not gonna stop it, though. It's gonna keep going and it's gonna go quick. Real quick.

Big leaps. Big leaps, real quick. Where the world is alien. Real quick. And look at the stuff we're already seeing.

Konstantin Kisin
I mean, Google Gemini, that was eye opening. Yes, that was eye opening. Yeah, because influence, human influence. I tried to ask it some questions about contentious subjects, and it was literally like talking to a woke 18 year old. God, it's so stupid because it refuses to give you certain information if you ask it about things that are controversial.

Let's say, whatever, there's different examples. You could ask it. It just says, well, I have the information, but I'm not going to give it to you because it's harmful. God damn that ideology, that pervasive, idiotic ideology is so terrifying. It's so terrifying how quickly people will adopt all of those principles without variation.

Joe Rogan
Rarely. They just. They just lump into that. And censorship is fine as long as you're censoring bad people. Yeah, I mean, look what Australia is trying to do with Elon and X at the moment.

Yeah, we were talking about that earlier. This woman from Australia. Who is that lady? I think she's a parliamentarian or a minister in the government. She's saying he should be locked up for what he's doing on social media.

Like, what is he doing? I want to know what. Imagine. Imagine. That's your threshold for locking someone up, allowing people to talk, right?

You know, what is he doing that's so egregious? Like, does she have. I feel like if you make that statement, if you're a person that's an elected official and you make that statement, like, this person should be locked up if it's not for something very specific. You're terrifying me because you're in a position of power and you just want to just flippantly lock people in a cage because they disagree with you. Please explain what it is.

Like, what is he. I have not yet seen one thing. He's not perfect. He doesn't make all the same moves that I'm guessing it has to do with. This accuses Australia of censorship after court bans violent video.

So there's a video of a bishop being stabbed at a church. Oh, I saw that video. So Australia is trying to ban that video. Right. Okay, well, I agree with Elon.

So imagine thinking that he should be. You want some water? I'll have some coffee of this? Thanks, bro.

Beautiful. Thank you. You're welcome. So he's saying, this is a real video. This is a real thing that happened.

There's something that someone wants to see. We all should know that this can happen. Here's the video. Somebody put it up. It doesn't violate any of our laws.

Let's keep it up there. And they're saying he should be locked in a cage for that? Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. Well, once you invent.

Konstantin Kisin
So this isn't the case in this instance particularly, but once you invent the idea of hate speech, then everything else follows. Because if there's hate speech, that means some people aren't allowed to be saying what they're saying. And by the way, I mean, it is true. I definitely have noticed an increase in, like, anti semitic messages that people send me since Elon took over. I'm happy with that.

I'm very comfortable with that. Because the rest. Well, good, because you just mentioned it now. More coming. Well, I don't give a shit.

I just block people that I don't want to hear from, and that works for me. I think that's the way it should be. Because if you. We've got to open up the conversation. That means that some people are going to say dumb shit.

Joe Rogan
Yes. And I would much rather that than some well meaning bureaucrat deciding what should and shouldn't be allowed to be said in the public square. So if that. If that means there's more hate, I don't give a shit. I think it's worth it.

That is the only solution. It's not gonna be a. It's not a simple solution. It's gonna be, yeah, you're gonna open up the door to more hate, but you're also gonna open up the door to free conversations, and people are gonna figure out what's what. And that's the only way it really works.

It doesn't work by government mandate, especially when we've seen, particularly with our government, with the Twitter files, how there have been people that worked within the government that contacted Twitter and tried to get factual information taken down, trying to get the accounts suppressed of people that were experts in the field, that had a differing opinion other than what was being promoted. That's crazy. You can't have that like that. That can't be a thing because that's not good for the government. It's not good for us.

It's not good for anybody to allow that kind of shit. It's un american. You should be ashamed that you want to do that. It's unpatriotic. You shouldn't be allowed to do it just because you're in a sneaky, secret squirrel position where you can contact Twitter through some government agent, and then they feel pressured, and then they give in to something that you're doing.

That's super unethical. That's unamerican. I love that you said that, Joe, because it's a phrase that you don't hear as much as I think you used to 20 years ago. Just the idea that there's some basic core principles of what America and the broader west is founded on. And that's one of them.

It's one of them. And you have to fight off that urge to control people. You have to recognize that if you're in a position of power, whether you're a cult leader or a president or whatever the fuck you are, there's this desire to control people that gets people to that position in the first place, this ego that makes them think, I should be the one that talks for the whole group. I know what's better for all of them. And as soon as you start using that in an unethical way like that, like censoring people, especially censoring factual information from experts, you're un american.

That's un american. It's unpatriotic. In fact, it's one of the grossest things you could do in a place that values free speech. And we've seen so tangibly what's come out of this country, like, culturally. The music, the comedy, the literature, all the crazy shit, the movies that have come from this experiment in self government.

And the only way it works is if you let people work it out. You gotta let people talk. And you're gonna get people that are wrong, and you're gonna get people that are racist. You're gonna get people that are sexist, and you're gonna get people that are homophobic. You're gonna get all that, but you're also gonna get people that battle those people.

You're gonna get people that have better arguments than those people. You get people that sort of start posting links and quotes, and people start figuring things out for themselves. And that's the only way this works. It's the only way. You can't let these people that are elected officials decide what you can and can't consume.

Cause I don't know you. I know the you that ran for mayor. I don't know you. You might be a piece of shit. You might be a sociopath.

You might be a smiling con artist that tricked a bunch of people because nobody wants to run, and everybody who does run sucks. It's like you're literally, like, boxing with five year olds. Like, oh, you're the champ. Yay. No one's doing it.

No one's doing it. Like, no real quality human beings are out there running for office in Los Angeles. They're not running for. I mean, there was that Rick Caruso guy. They didn't give him a chance.

He could have done something. That's a rare thing when you have a very wealthy person who wants to try to save a city. But of course, he's, like a Republican, right? So they're like, get out of here. Or what is he running a Republican as a Democrat?

What was he running as? You can't even win as a Republican in California. Like, they're. So. It was a lot.

Konstantin Kisin
Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger. Yeah. Schwarzenegger was the last one, but he was also royalty. So it's, like, a tricky thing, because that was Hollywood royalty.

Joe Rogan
He was a movie star. Like, it would be great if Arnie got in. He's a sensible Republican. You know, he's always one of us. He's a liberal.

He's also. He's running as a Republican. That's the only way he can run. Yeah. You know, and you've seen that more and more throughout all our societies.

Francis Foster
Like, you look at what's happening in Scotland when I messaged you with what was happening with the hate speech laws, where now you can. Hate speech has been criminalized in public performances, including place. It's so insane. So the Edinburgh festival, which is the largest comedy and arts festival in the world, people can now get arrested for. Public performance, and they most certainly will if they follow the rule of the law, because Edinburgh, those guys get wild.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, get wild down there. Yeah. And so they should. And you just go, it was a comedy fest. Yeah, it's a comedy fest.

Francis Foster
However, there's probably a few people that actually, if I was in charge, I'd lock them up. Get rid of this. Well, you know, Francis and I, we've been warning about this for ages, and most. Most people pretend it's not happening. They ignore it.

Konstantin Kisin
And it's like, first, a couple of years ago, a guy called Jerry Sadowicz, who's a super funny, super offensive comic. Like, none of his stuff is online because it's too offensive. But you go and see him. He's absolutely incredible. So they pulled his show from Edinburgh festival.

And we were like, this is a problem. Like, nah, nah, there's no problem. Now you literally have the police potentially arresting comedians. Maybe this is when they start waking up. Yeah.

Francis Foster
And. And this same government wanted to criminalize hate speech in your home. In your home, in your home. It's really is the real problem is the people that want that job shouldn't have that job. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
No quality. Except for this is a rare few. Like, I think RFK is a great person. Yeah, I would. I would vote for him.

I think Tulsi Gabbard is a great person. Yeah, I would vote for her. There's people that I think are running for office and they're legitimately trying to do well for the world. They're trying to make a better place. They think they have ideas that would sort out some of the problems that we have.

And they're one of us. That's real. But then there's these fucking people. The rest of them, they're just these partisan fucking robots and they just get connected to the system and they know which wheels to grease and they all get connected together and they support each other and it's just. And even with good, well intentioned people, I think as we were talking about free speech, there are some certain principles that have got to be there because good intentions can be misused.

Konstantin Kisin
You're like, oh, I just want to do good. I just want to protect people from harm. That's why we need to restrict speech online. That's their argument. I did.

Joe Rogan
It's a stupid argument that they should have to debate someone about that. Yeah. You want to just pass something like that. You should have to stand. That is a very important thing you're trying to pass.

You should have to stand publicly and defend that against a champion of free speech. Like a really brilliant chance. Like, if Hitchens was alive, could you imagine what that would have looked like? Christopher Hitchens versus whoever the fuck thinks they could lock people up for saying cunt. Whatever.

The words that you're going to choose that are hate speech now, and they're going to keep moving, they'll run out of words. They're going to push new words. They're going to push new descriptions that are problematic. I mean, to be fair, cunt is not a hate speech in Australia. It's a greeting.

Yeah, Scotland, too. Yeah, he's a good cunt.

Isn't it funny that. That it's. That is a weird thing that that word became cute over there. Yeah. And over here, it's just so rough.

Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so interesting because, like I said, in Scotland, it's a term of affection. I was in Glasgow, and we were queuing at the bar, and there was this english guy, you know, he was very. Hello. I mean, you know, one of them.

Francis Foster
And then he was in his rough, like, place in Glasgow. Bar in Glasgow. People were cut in front of him. And then one bloke there, who was this rough ass Glaswegian, looked at the barman and went, hey, barman, get this poor cunt a drink. And it was the love in his eyes.

It was just pure affection, you know, like, this guy's been fucked over. Get him a drink. Yeah. If you say that in Boston, they'll beat the fuck out of you. For some reason, it didn't make it over there.

Yeah. Which is interesting because it's obviously so heavily influenced. But, you know, to the point that we were talking about, you know, you see, even something like diversity. The scottish first minister, there was a very famous speech where he came out and he listed people who were working in certain places. I can't remember, in certain parts of government, and he just went white.

White. And it's like, mate, it's Scotland. It's 96% white. What do you expect? But everybody's so scared of being called racist.

Joe Rogan
They're like, yeah, you're right. And, you know, what happened is that they. The week they passed that bill, there were more reports of hate speech on that speech that he gave than there'd been for years. That's hilarious. Now are the hypocrites.

Do they lock him up? That would be maybe the solution. Lock him up, then overturn the laws. Yeah. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin
Well, they didn't lock him up. The BBC did a very nice interview where they agreed that anyone who criticized him must be far. Right? Yeah, that's sweet. That's a good move.

Yeah. Checkers. Yeah. The world is checkers to you. And you don't think that it's so fucking transparent?

It's such a basic principle of our civilization that people should be free to speak their mind. And it's important at every level. Like, our armies fight better because they're less hierarchical. So the soldier on the ground can pass information up the chain of command without being afraid. Right.

It matters in every single aspect of what we do. It's the reason for our scientific progress. It's a reason for our technological progress. It's the reason, as you say, for the cultural creativity that we have here that they don't have in other places. It's the bedrock of our civilization.

And you've got well intentioned, quote, unquote, people running around trying to tear it down. I had this experience when I last, no, not the last one. The penultimate time. I did question Time, which is like a big discussion show in the UK on tv, and there's like five people from different perspectives, different angles. And before they start, they do one question that they don't broadcast.

Theres like a warm up, right? And the question at the time was, Donald Trump had just been unbanned from Facebook, and they were like, well, should that have happened? And I, you know, made the controversial point that the former president of the most powerful country in the world should be allowed to say something in public. Didnt go down well.

Joe Rogan
Youre going to let them talk. And then they went to the left wing politician, the Labour Party politician on the panel, and she went, without missing, I beat. She went, we must have the safest Internet in the world. And I was like, what? Safer than North Korea?

Konstantin Kisin
They've completely lost the understanding that there is a trade off between freedom and safety. And when you go for more freedom, yes, it means there's less safety from people's hurty words or whatever, but you get more freedom. And that's actually worth it. It's actually important. And it's always these people that want to assume those positions of power that have this sort of fucking limited view of human psychology and the way we accumulate and process information that it has to be, we have to be able to talk about stuff.

Joe Rogan
If you can't just talk about stuff, you get one side of the story, and that side of the story is going to favor whoever the fuck is in control of what you get to talk about, period. It's always how it's been. And to think that it's going to be different now because we're better and we're more civilized. Well, we can trust our leaders now. Like, no, no, it's a human thing.

It's a reason why there's term limits. So you can only get corrupted so much over eight years. And hopefully someone could, like, say, this guy sucks. Let's try a whole new crew of people, see how we run this thing. You see, that's why I found COVID so fascinating, because that was when the mask slipped, and you saw some leaders, and you were like, okay, you're trying to do your best.

Francis Foster
And then you saw the petty little authoritarians come out, and you really saw them. And then what was interesting about it as well was that there was some things that were so funny. Because they were so ridiculous. Do you remember in New Zealand when a guy got arrested for transporting KSC across county lines? Biological terrorism.

Yeah. Yeah. He got. What did they get him for? What they get him for?

Because he wasn't. Because during the COVID regulations, you couldn't move beyond a certain. Yeah, but there was a barrier. And this guy was making money because he was going to KFC, buying it, and then basically. And then coming back and being like, KFC, but for drug dealers.

But for KFC. And then he was stopped, searched by the police, and arrested. And then they listed all of these things in his boot and, like, two tubs of coleslaw, one coke bottle, and you go, this is.

Joe Rogan
Tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah. Men were charged with breaching the country's tough COVID-19 rules. A boot full of KFC chicken and tens of thousands. I think it's the money they're worried about.

The KFC might have been. The KFC is just kind of a fun decision. Well, no, look, it says they were charged for breaching the country's COVID rules. So it's nothing to do with money. Right.

But they did have tens of thousands of dollars, which means they were selling KFC. These dudes had an illegal KFC business to get KFC during lockdown. This guy's like, I'm gonna go out there. I don't have a gps in my truck. Let's go.

Yeah, he's a KFC smuggler, this motherfucker. Look at his haul. See, he was smuggling KFC. There's no way he's eating all that chicken by himself. Yeah, that's a lot of chicken.

Francis Foster
Yeah. I mean, by the way, that might be my favorite fast food. Yeah, mine too. I like that. If you're really not concerned about your health at all, you just want good flavor, especially the.

Joe Rogan
They have, like, a crunchy. Right? Isn't there a calf? Doesn't they have a crunchy crust sometimes too? Yeah, yeah, I'm just reading.

What happened? They got caught traveling on a gravel road on the outskirts of the city. Did a U turn when they saw a puppy police car, and then they finally had $100,000 in cash on them. Oh, that's a lot of money, guys. What are you doing?

Sell them KFC. That's what they do. Look, man, if you're fucking really locked down, you got some cash, bro? I'll give you $1,000 to go get me a bucket of chicken. Really?

Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. 1000. Here's also a fine. I mean, I'd go and get it. It's unclear whether the men intended to sell the food.

Joe Rogan
I told you. Or if they hope to use it as a distraction if they're not pulled over. You want some KFC? How about you let me off? Check my fucking money.

Francis Foster
Speaker one. Yeah. And that. That was the. The whole thing with COVID and for me, and I think for probably Constantine and you as well, that was a real wake up moment for me where I was actually going, okay, how much of this is about keeping people safe?

Which I can understand. And by the way, I can understand an overreaction as well. When the virus was about to hit, I remember saying to Constantin, we're going to bank episodes. We're going to bank episodes now. Bank.

Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I was like, oh, come on, mate. It's just the flu. Nothing's gonna happen. This was, like, in January 2020.

Konstantin Kisin
And he was like, no, no, you gotta take this shit seriously. Yeah. And he was right. And so there's that natural reaction where you go, look, this is serious. We've got to, you know, we've got to protect people.

Francis Foster
They're vulnerable people. And then there's other stuff where you're going, this makes no sense. Yeah, but it's people wanting to do something. They had a show that they had some sort of a measure of a plan in California. The big one was closing the outside dining.

Joe Rogan
I've said this before, so I apologize for people who've heard it, but my friend, his brother worked on the whole COVID force in Los Angeles, and they were closing outside dining because there was a spike in cases. And he goes, but there's no evidence that outside dining, you're going to kill these businesses. She goes, it's about the optics. About the optics to make a decision that kills businesses. Like, these people were barely hanging on.

They were only able to serve people outside. You know, I mean, who knows how many bartenders and waitresses were just fucked, restaurant owners fucked. Everybody got fucked. And it was about the optics. That's just dumb people.

That's just. That person should not have that position of power. There's no fucking way that person to make that kind of a decision. She'd have to debate a champion of the restaurant industry. She'd have to debate a champion of health, should have to debate a champion who understands, like, how is this stuff being transmitted?

Is it not being transmitted at all? Outside? Is that real true? What is the safety threshold of outside dining? And have someone fucking talk about.

You can't just wave a magic wand and decide that everybody has to go home. That's crazy. And so many people lost decades of their lives. Decades of their lives work. And it goes back to the importance of debate, the importance of free speech.

Francis Foster
One of the most dreadful and terrible ideas that was allowed to propagate, and I saw smart people reiterating, regurgitating constantly, is words of violence. Well, if words are violence, then logically it makes sense to shut all of this down, because if you challenge me on something I say, on something I say, and you go, actually, Francis, you're talking crap. And I'm like, well, that's violent, then I need to be protected. Because we need to be protected from physical violence. Yeah.

And we've just allowed this idea to propagate. It's a crazy idea. So to the time. So none of our, nobody's ideas get challenged. We feel under threat if people challenge us.

It's ridiculous. And that we've come to this point where you just see this stasis, because terrible ideas are allowed to flourish without people going, no, you can't become a woman. And then even the people that are inside these groups that disagree with it, they keep their mouths shut because they don't want to be ostracized, they want to be cast out of the kingdom. Nobody's able to, like, really fully express objective opinions about a variety of subjects. You have to sort of, you have to adopt a predetermined list of things that you agree with.

Joe Rogan
If you tell me how you feel about abortion, I could almost entirely tell you how you feel about guns most of the time. Like eight out of ten. That's weird. It's all weird. And the thing as well, to your point, Francis, I feel like we've got to a point where it's, it's become quite hard to criticize peoples ideas without people thinking that youre criticizing the person.

Konstantin Kisin
I mean, it happened with your interview with Tucker. Like, Tucker said some things that people didnt agree with, and I think rightly, and they pointed out some of the gaps in what he was saying. But lots of people defended him on the basis that he was being attacked personally, even though people were simply disagreeing with a particular thing that he said. What was that? Particularly?

Joe Rogan
I dont pay attention after I released things fucking, we were talking about some wild shit. I was like, this one's gonna get. I think the evolutionary stuff got a lot of people's attention. Yes. That got.

Well, my friend Brett Weinstein, who's an actual evolutionary biologist, you know, he didn't. Like it and Colin Wright, who's an evolutionary biologist, it's. I didn't understand the science enough to argue it. Unfortunately, if Brett was in my position, it would have been much better with that subject. I think.

There's. He had, Tucker has a very. I like him, first of all, a lot. He's a very nice guy. I've got to hung out with him a couple times.

I hung out with him at the UFC. I had dinner with him with Lex, and then I brought him on stage with kill Tony. Didn't even know he was gonna go on there and went out and handled it amazingly. He's a good guy. He's also bitterly embattled and has been for a long time.

And I think that can make you more aggressive or shittier about, like, certain things, and in that regard, like, he's handled himself pretty well, like, he's pretty smart about it. He doesn't use a computer, he doesn't watch television. He just has a phone. He does everything, schedules everything through his phone, and that's it. And he's managed to sort of filter himself out, but he's got a very religious bend to a lot of the things that he believes, and he's a smart guy.

You're allowed to have that. But he believes God created people, and he has this belief that he operates from, and that makes, look, the universe is so crazy. The idea of God is not that crazy to me. It's just not. I don't think it's any more crazy than anything.

I think maybe the universe is God. Maybe that's what's going on. Maybe there's this constant creative force that's so immense, you can't even possibly calculate it, and that's God. And he's got some ideas about spiritual things that are interesting, like about good and evil and these uaps, the uaps being spiritual things. But it seems like, with all respect, I feel like that's what he wants to think.

Do you know that? He wants to think that they've always been here and their spiritual things, and he might be right. But it is also possible that there's a life form that's so advanced that it can avoid detection anytime it wants, and then slowly trickles out little bits of information to us, whether it's a crashed vehicle or letting a vehicle be seen or hovering over Phoenix, whatever it wants to do, and then fades away again. And then every decade or so, as human beings evolve, it introduces more and more to the landscape, which, if you kind of looked at it on a graph, seems to be the case, and oddly seems to be the case, that it's, like, primarily happening in the United States. Like, if you look at the difference between the UFO sightings around the world and the UFO sightings in the United States.

We're locked in. We're locked in. I said this to you last time, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you asked me what do I think of aliens, I was like, I would be a lot more, I find a lot more credible if it wasn't all in North America.

Also, as an american, I have to say it's probably because we're the shit. And if I was an alien, what am I gonna do? Go to Czechoslovakia? Get the fuck out of here. I'm gonna go check out San Francisco.

Like, look at all the shit in the streets, right? Look at all the needles. These people are crazy. I think there's probably both things going on. I think there's probably some sort of extra dimensional possibility that I think occurs during psychedelic drugs and during certain states of altered consciousness that I have a feeling you're tuning into something that's not always available, but probably is always there.

And then there's probably a physical element of things coming here from somewhere else. Because we do that, it just seems so. Duh. Like, allegedly we went to the moon, but we definitely sent rovers to Mars. We definitely send satellites into space to take incredible imagery of Jupiter.

We definitely do all that. Why would we not think that another species would do that? Especially if they get to some position where they're using some unique, novel form of propulsion that manipulates gravity and they don't even have to worry about g forces just appear, places which seems to be, like, what they think these things are doing. Have you heard about that? There's a story about this chinese scientist that was working on anti gravity, and she came from China to the United States to work on anti gravity, and she was working on some anti gravity propulsion system and then vanished.

Like, probably went back to China. Yeah, I mean, probably went back to China. This is what they paid me to do. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people who vanish in China. That's the thing.

But I don't think she vanished. She vanished from the United States. I think she went back to China. Oh, one took the secrets with her. I think that's the worry, is that this.

See if you can find that lady's name. It's a. It's a very interesting story. I was reading about it the other day and I remember, like, someone. You guys are perfect to talk about this because that would be the ultimate thing that you'd have to keep secret from another country.

Cause if you have espionage, if you have people that have infiltrated your universities, and they certainly do, and if you have people who have infiltrated your military contractors, and they certainly do, we do it. I'm sure they do it. Oh, they definitely do. I mean, the southern border is the fact that it's as open as it is. A lot of them are coming through there, of course.

But if you're making something that is some sort of a gravity propulsion system, and you've made a breakthrough, you're not gonna put that on wired.com dot, you're not gonna broadcast that on CNN. You're not gonna tell anybody that. Cause if the other countries find out, if the other superpowers, if China and Russia find out that we have some sort of a gravity propulsion, everyone's gonna die. Yeah, they're gonna steal all the information. Doesn't make sense.

Still solving the mystery of Huntsville's brilliant anti gravity scientist, doctor Ning Lee's son talks about her mom's career and legacy, along with the Internet's obsession with her disappearance. So when did she disappear?

She co authored papers in 93. Hold on right there. Stop right there. In the late nineties, she claimed to have created anti gravity devices that were fully functional. And this was big news in both scientific journals and mainstream press.

In 1997, Doctor Lee continued to expand on her concept and conduct more experiments. She published papers describing the anonymous anomalous weight changes in objects suspected over a rotating superconductor. To say her work, referred to as taming gravity, could change the world is an understatement. Taming gravity would drastically change the way we transport on every level. Humans could travel the world at ease, and we could finally get our hands on those sweet hoverboards from back to the future.

So did she really do it? So what happened to her? In 99, Lee left Uah to start her own company, AC Gravity, and commercialize a device based on her theories. Oh, you fucked up, lady. Her colleagues obviously believed in her work.

As a chair of UAH's physics department, Larry Smalley also departed the university to join her. Public records show that in 2001, the US Department of Defense gave AC gravity a grant for $448,970 to research the technology. However, these results were never published. In fact, Doctor Lee never published anything again. Even though the business license for AC Gravity was updated yearly through 2018, there's no record of any further work done by the company.

Lee's career after 2002 is a subject of great mystery. Barely sociable's research turned up a document showing that she gave a presentation at the 2003 Mitre conference titled measurability of AC gravity Fields. The Mitre Corporation challenges federally funded research for several. Excuse me. Manages federally funded research for several us agencies.

At the conference, she presented, along with a redstone arsenal official from US Army Aviation missile command, meaning that her research was still being conducted up to that point. So where did she take off? When did she disappear? They think she went to China.

This is a bunch of, like, they're not really sure. And then in 2021. So it's like two years ago. Look at this, though. An obituary popped up.

An obituary on a funeral home and just outside of Birmingham, where she was like, with this. Mmm. Where she was. It didn't say anything about her disappearance. Hmm.

An obituary? Mm hmm. They say how she died. Was it water torture? Usually don't say how on an obituary.

See? Wow. She passed away peacefully.

That's a little sus. More information about how she would have conducted her life. But if you scroll back up, what I was gonna read a little bit more. There's something about her right there. A little bit higher.

Confirming her well being that she was still working with the Dodge, but was unable to talk about her work. So she's working with the Department of Defense. He also told Ventura that he was unable to get a working email address or phone number for her. They probably made a breakthrough, and that's probably what happens when you make a real breakthrough. They probably give you a very clear indication of how this is going to go from here on out.

You're going to be completely isolated from the rest of the world. There's no way we can trust that you're going to tell anybody about this. We're going to have to. To fucking monitor everything you do and just you stop publishing, you stop doing anything. But here's the thing.

Francis Foster
Is that the wrong approach to take? Is that the wrong approach to take when you. When somebody has created something that could be such a monumental tool, potentially a weapon, that an enemy or somebody you perceive to be an enemy could use it against you? I don't think it's the wrong approach to take. I mean, I think if you're.

Joe Rogan
Especially if you're dealing with someone that came over here from China, it's like, where is she going? Like, keep an eye on that lady. If she really cracked it, and she cracked it with what? If she's sharing? That's the thing is, like, some of these drones that they're seeing, and that's what I've always assumed, that a lot of these things are, especially the square within a sphere that seems to.

They keep finding. She's disappeared and gone back to China, said Sephardi. She was working with NASA and the Redstone arsenal, but she disappeared for several years. Now the people at the Pentagon cannot reach her anymore. She's allegedly back in China, and the Chinese are pouring money into similar experiments now.

Uh oh. That's why our intelligence guys are very interested. The most likely people to develop the first anti gravity propulsion technology are the Chinese. That's reassuring.

That's crazy. That's a crazy statement. The most. When someone says that publicly. Go back to that.

Sorry again, Jamie. The most likely people to develop the first anti gravity propulsion technology are the Chinese. The fact that he's saying that, if you're saying that publicly, that means they're probably on it. Yeah, I know, but if that lady really did crack something and really was able to make things hover, God damn it. And it was as far back as, what, 93?

Well, 2004 was that big sighting. Commander David Fravor, when he found that thing that looked like a tic tac that was hovering over the water and disappeared at an insane rate of speed. They got video of this thing. Different fighter jets saw it. They said this thing just took off.

Just no visual means of propulsion. There's no windows, no rockets, just gone. And there's video of it. There's video of this thing just moving at this insane rate of speed that would turn human bodies into Jell O. I think it's a drone.

I think they probably had a few of those. I think they've been. That's why they're always occurring around nuke, around military bases. Like, San Diego is filled with military. It's all military out there.

So if they're off the coast, off the. They're near the Nimitz, right? So there's fucking all sorts of tests and training things that they're running out there. That's what they do. Of course.

That's where they're going to train their fucking drones, too. Of course. It's. We're gonna. If you've got some crazy high tech thing, and you want to see, how do the fighter jets see it?

Like what? You fucking don't tell them. And you put it in the ocean, and then you say, go fly over there. And they fly over there and they see this fucking thing that can go from 50,000ft above sea level to zero in, like, a second. Like, what are we watching?

Konstantin Kisin
Man, it's so crazy. Some of the stuff that human beings are coming up with. I don't know if you know this. The Russians have a tsunami torpedo. Have you heard about that?

Joe Rogan
It starts tsunamis. Yeah. What? It's a tsunami torpedo. Jamie, would you.

So fun. Bye, Malibu. It's basically a nuclear torpedo. It explodes underwater, causing its tsunami, which can wash, you know, half the United States off the. Half the United States.

Konstantin Kisin
Well, if it hits the seaboard on both sides, yeah. I mean, it would be harder for them, obviously, from the east, but from the west. Oh, my God. You can wash off, you know, all of California just like. Well, you could do that down here too.

Joe Rogan
Then you could do it in Texas. You could do it all over the country. All over where the water is. Russian tv news agency. Oops.

God damn it. Russian news agency TSS reported that Russia had produced the first set of nuclear powered, very long range nuclear torpedoes known as Poseidon. Strategic experts are warning that the Poseidon torpedoes would have the potential to devastate a coastal city, causing radioactive floods and result in millions of deaths. Oh, fuck, dude, look at this. Haunted.

Konstantin Kisin
I knew you'd like this. I knew you'd like this. News outlets have painted a hauntingly vivid picture of a towering 1000 foot tall radioactive tsunami. I know you wrote tabloid, tabloid news, but is that possible? 1000 foot tall radioactive tsunami violently crashing into british shores pulverizing everything in its path and transforming the whole cities into barren, lifeless lands, isn't the kind of power that they have now is how much more powerful are they than fat man and little boy?

Joe Rogan
It's a lot, right? Yeah. Orders of magnitude. I think the hydrogen bomb is way more powerful than the atomic bomb. So if they have, like, some top of the food chain best of what we've got today, nuclear weapon and they detonated into the ocean.

What does that look like? Yeah, I'm sure you've seen those. Those tests they did when they blew up atomic bombs in the ocean. You get to see, like, how high the water goes into the sky. This got declassified not too long ago.

Francis Foster
Wow. This is a russian bomb that they have. Did they drop that in the water? I was that water. No, they're way up in the clouds there.

Joe Rogan
Oh, my gosh. Look at that. Isn't it kind of ironic that the thing that might kill us all looks like a mushroom, but that's the thing. They might save us all.

Imagine if that's what God's trying to. Tell us and that's 1961. This is the only thing that's going to keep you from nuking each other. Yeah. Mushrooms.

Francis Foster
Chow down, boys. Imagine if God's trying to tell you that, like, through the most horrific thing that human beings can do, the indiscriminate murder of hundreds of thousands of people instantaneously. Yeah, maybe that's what we need to do. We need to actually. Basically, just before everybody gets to power, you're gonna do a mushroom trip.

You're gonna connect to the spirituality of the earth. You're gonna connect with your fellow human beings. You're gonna understand that we are all one. And then you're gonna be allowed to do your job, and then you're gonna. Drop out of the race.

I don't want that job. Or you give them to bite and he dies. You have to tell people what to think and what they can and can't do. Yeah. There's certainly some strange battle that's going on right now that I don't think most people were aware was gonna ever take place.

Joe Rogan
No, I think that's part of what the problem is. What is this? This 1961 SAR bomb. Yes. Like, means king bomb.

Konstantin Kisin
King of. I mean, imagine being that guy in that plane going, I am getting cancer. For sure. For sure. Do they even know they're getting cancer?

Francis Foster
Probably not. Probably not. Do you know that all the guys that worked on this one John Wayne movie all wound up getting cancer because they were filming it out in the Nevada desert? Holy shit. Yeah.

Which one was that? Was that. Oh, I don't know. But they did a lot of. A lot of.

Joe Rogan
You ever seen the video of the show? All the different tests that they did in Nevada's radioactive. That's why they let them fucking put casinos there. The conqueror, considered the worst film of 1950, suffered from a toxic working environment and was filmed near a nuclear test site. Out of the 220 cast and crew members, 91 developed cancer.

Konstantin Kisin
See? 46. See, Joe, that is a real toxic working environment. It's not because someone said something you didn't like. Not only that, it's like the worst movie of his career.

Joe Rogan
Worst movie. His career killed him. Wasn't even worth it. Yeah, exactly. Wasn't even worth it.

Francis Foster
Can you imagine that? Like, that is the worst. At least. Let's say you create this incredible movie, a work of art that will go down in history for generations as an iconic piece of cinematography. And that happened.

It would still be awful, inexcusable, but you'd go, but look at what they created. Has anyone ever seen the Conqueror? I think I want to see it now. Some of those really old bad movies are amazing. Yeah, they're amazing to watch the Genghis Khan movie.

Joe Rogan
Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. Oh, my God. Genghis Khan movie. Terrible.

He played Genghis Khan. It's terrible. John Wayne played Genghis Khan, bro. That is cultural appropriation today. You would not get away with that.

Just like John Wayne. Genghis Khan talked like John Wayne. And his girlfriend was white. I mean, she looks incredibly mongolian. Did they do anything to him with makeup?

It seems like they did. They must have done that mustache. Yeah, I mean, the mustache, but what about his face? Not really, huh? No, they've just probably put a little bit of color in there.

Ganga's con. I'm the fucking man. Look, it was 1956. It was a better time. It wasn't a better time.

This is the best time. I know. I'm kidding, don't you think? I mean, it's all the complaining we do. This is the best time.

Francis Foster
Of course it is. It's a great time to be alone. This is also a time where you have. There's a very interesting thing that's going on. Look how bad this looks.

Joe Rogan
It's really corny. He looks iranian, mate. Yeah, well, that wasn't him there. This is John, this is Joan. And eyes to see your treacherous head is not safe on your shoulders, nor.

Your daughter in her bed.

First of all, dudes back then just didn't work out. No. You know, but they were seen as the epitome of masculinity. Crazy. Look at that.

Francis Foster
Yeah. That's cause nobody knew any better. And also, if a Vander Holyfield was standing there holding that thing up, you're like, damn, Vander Holyfield in his prime. You'd be like, damn, that's what a man looks like, not just bullshit. Yeah, but I don't think Vanderholyfield is.

Konstantin Kisin
Genghis Khan is an interesting pasting. I just met his body. I just meant his physique. But you're so right, Joe. I mean, we can complain.

And I think there's a lot of things to fear about the future, and there's a lot of shit that's fucked up right now, but at the same time, it's an amazing time to be alive. And look at the three of us. What we do is sit and chat shit on the Internet. Yeah. And it's a great life.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, it is a great life. And it's. It's also uniquely educational. Right. There's so many things that I know that I would have never known.

I've never been even interested in knowing. But because I have this opportunity just to be able to talk to people, I've had, like, a total accidental education. Yeah. And it's also your listeners and your viewers as well are getting that education as well. Yeah.

Francis Foster
How many people, like men and women, grow up in a really, you know, poor, rural part of America all over the world, and they don't have access to a quality of education because of, for whatever reason, all of a sudden, they can go online and whatever they're interested, they can find. If they're interested in astrophysics, they can sit down and listen to one of the greatest astrophysicists in the world explain string theory, whatever it may be, and they have access to that information. Whereas before. Forget it. It doesn't matter how talented you were, if you didn't have access to that information, you're done.

You're never going to realize your talent. Yeah. I mean, just imagine growing up in the 1950s or when the John Wayne movie was made. Your access to information was so. And people could lie to you.

Joe Rogan
You had no idea. There's no Google. Someone just tells you some crazy story about their past. You have to believe it. I mean, it was so easy, I bet back then, to be, like, a con man, right?

Just trick people into giving you money. I'm actually a prince. And you just have some crazy story, and people like, it's actually a princess. Yeah. Think about this.

Konstantin Kisin
In medieval times, if you were just a normal person, like a peasant or whatever, you probably never leave your village. Yeah. You probably never read a book. The sum total of knowledge that you have is the equivalent of, like, two days at school for us. Yeah.

That's how little information people had. Yeah. And you're listening to mythology and all superstitions, and you're terrified of everything. There's witch doctors and. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
Who knows? By the time you're dying, you're just recognizing the hustle. By the time you're. I mean, if. If you're a 40 year old man, you're just starting to realize, oh, this is kind of.

I think this thing's rigged. You know, it takes a long ass time to see how complicated and then to have so many interactions with people that you realize, like, how sometimes people don't really say what they think. They kind of say what they're expected to say, and they self censor. And you see that, and people are like, I can't talk to him anymore. And you get.

And you get this. You get an education of human beings. It's based on interactions and it takes forever. And everyone's so different. We all assume that other people are going to think the way we think and they just fucking don't.

They don't. And if you have this rigid idea of how people should think about things and you encounter just this wide variety of different ways of thinking about things, it makes you a little more hesitant to cling on to your ideas because I think too many people think of their ideas as a part of them. They're just ideas. You're you and your who you are. The value in you is your ability to not attach to ideas, ability to look at ideas for what they're.

Even if you think they're amazing, say why you think they're amazing, but they're not a part of you, so don't argue them like they're a part of you. Let people have differing opinions on them and then address those differing opinions in a relaxed way that can be done instead of all this yelly, shouty, childish bullshit that so many people engage in, that just makes people more tribal. It just makes people. And then they fucking dunk on each other and back and forth. It's just dumb.

It's a dumb way for smart people to behave. It's what happens when you let your ego get involved, when your ego is the most important thing, when you think you are the most important thing as you walk into any room or you participate in any conversation or interaction. And the reality is you're not important. You're important in some ways and to your family and whatever else, but in the grand scheme of things, these, you know, you just see these people and the outrage and the anger they feel because all of a sudden their sense of self has been challenged and they are not mentally or spiritually robust enough to be able to push back on that challenge or to be able to accept that challenge. And it creates this kind of, you almost see it like this kind of mini ego death where they just freak out and you go, we're just having a conversation.

Yeah, freak out of an idea. Yeah. Well, this is what I was saying earlier about we have to be able to disagree with each other and criticize other people's ideas and what they say without thinking that it's about the person. You're not attacking the person. You can disagree with someone strongly.

That's what I'm saying about RFK's genes.

Francis Foster
We're talking about clothing people, not the other type. That's much more personal. Yeah. I also think that men in particular, a lot of men have a desire to compete in things. And if you're not competing with yourself, like, you're not running and trying to, like, make your time better or working out or whatever.

Joe Rogan
Whatever. The thing that's difficult to do, if you don't have one of those, then you start using whatever your job is or whatever your ideology is as your way of competing, and you try to enforce it on people or come up with better arguments or dunk on the people that disagree or, you know, harshly criticize them as a human being because you have differing opinions. Yeah, I sometimes fall into that trap, and something I'm really trying to work on because, like, whenever I watch you disagree with people, I think it always makes me think that that's a good way to do it because you're always very careful, you're very respectful, you're very calm about it. Well, not always. I think you and Crowder over weed, that got pretty intense.

Konstantin Kisin
But, yeah, apart from that, like, lots of times I've seen you disagree with people, and it's clear that you don't agree, but you're just trying to explore the argument. Yeah. You get better at doing that. Yeah, it's a skill. I'm really trying to learn that, for sure.

Joe Rogan
It's also important to recognize how people are taking in your words and thoughts, you know, especially when you were doing, like, the kind of stuff that we do where we're just kind of freeballing.

You're making a thing, right? You're having a conversation, but you're also making a digestible piece of media. You're making a thing. And the best way to make that thing is to try to get the most understanding of what this person is trying to say, even if you disagree with them. So I want to know why you.

I don't want to just know that you think this. I want to know why you think this, and I'll let you go. Even if I disagree, I want to hear you. I don't. Even if I disagree sometimes, I don't even have to challenge you on it.

I just. I'm really interested, even if I don't agree, I'm really interested in how you come to your conclusions and what other information do you take into account. And what is your personality like? Is this your identity? Are you fighting for this?

You see this a lot with, like, these really aggressive liberal men. Like, it seems to be. They're stationed in life. They're the watchmen on the tower. There's, like, this aggressive, and it's generally these weak, really weak, physically weak, mentally weak men.

That have adopted this aggressive stance, like, finally, like, they're the bullies now, and they're gonna go out. It's interesting. So if you talk to someone that has, like, that sort of a philosophy, if you just talk to them about general life enough, it sort of reveals itself. The cracks in the way they think and the lack of character and the lack of discipline, and most importantly, the lack of compassion. When people disagree with someone and they hate them as a human being because they have differing ideas, instead of saying, I think that if I talk to them, I could give them my perspective, and maybe it would be enlightening or maybe we would find common ground.

No, it's like, hate them as a person, and it's cherished. It's saluted online in the mental illness known as social media, the mental illness factory. These people are all, like, engaging in this back and forth, and you see these people that have finally found their competitive realm, and that flavor is a big part of why men talk and behave that way. There's an instinct to want to be good at a thing and beat people at a thing, whether it's chess or whether it's golf, whatever it is, there's a thing. And maybe for you, it's politics.

And for a lot of guys, I know it's politics because I see them online. I see what they're doing. I see the writing they're doing. They're just fishing for the right words and saying the right things to try to dunk on people. It's just their little competitive venture.

Francis Foster
It's a fear based response. I think a lot of it. It's something that I've tried to look at. Now, when I see people get aggressive, when I see people behave in a certain way, I'm like, oh, you're scared? Yeah, you're scared.

Joe Rogan
From the right to, oh, definitely. Really shitty right wing people that are very dismissive of entire swaths of people and culture and don't take into consideration the nuance involved in, say, like, crime ridden areas and how those things became that way in the first place. All that pulled them up by their bootstraps bullshit, all that no need for any social safety net stuff, like all that lack of compassion, lack of caring about people that masquerades as conservatism. That's just as gross. And there's a kind of woke effication that's happening on the right.

Konstantin Kisin
They've got their own conspiracies, their own little trigger points, all of these ideas. Do they like, what's a big one. Well, I wrote a piece, actually, when Tucker went to Moscow, because I thought that his conversation with Putin was. I clearly didn't go the way he intended, but it was fine. I had no issue with him interviewing Putin.

But the videos he did afterwards, it was kind of like. It felt to me like he was starting to. You know, the woke people, they hate America and they hate everything the west stands for. And there is a movement on the right where it's like they hate the elite so much that they will go to Russia and be impressed and think that the food is cheaper when it's three times more expensive for the average. Person, you know, in Russia, it is.

Yeah, of course. So was he trying to say it was cheaper? He did say it was cheaper, yeah. Objectively, it is cheaper, as in, if you come in with your american salary, but comparatively, it's much more expensive because. Russian salary is far less.

Right. So they spend three times as much money on food. He talked about how they have these shopping carts when you return it. Right. And all of this stuff.

Joe Rogan
Don't you just have to become an oligarch, then? That's easy. You have all the money in the big yacht. It's very hard nowadays. Yeah.

They steal your yacht. Yeah. So in the nineties, the oligarchs basically seized all the money. And then Putin came in and he got rid of all the oligarchs. And all his buddies are now the oligarchs.

Like, it's. It's been, like, nationalized. The corruption. Yeah. I bet they have great parties, though.

Francis Foster
They do. Partying with Putin. That'd be so scary. But you can't go too near the balcony because a lot of their balconies are slippy and they fall off. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan
You know, they slip. Yeah. They just slip and fall and die. Yeah, exactly. We just shoot drones at people.

Okay. It's like both. Both of them do shady shit. If you look at all the people that have died in mysterious ways in this country, where it's a little suspect that maybe there was some government involvement. Right.

Recently killed our president. You know, we just had the Michael Francis on. Do you know him? I've seen him online. Yeah.

What do you think about that? Well, we had. It was an interesting conversation about the mafia life and everything else, but when we did the paywall section for locals, at the end, he talked about how, like, it was an open secret in his circles that the mafia killed JFK, basically. Mmm. That was his take.

Yeah. And they would. They would. They were talking about it for ages and they were even joking about it. So when, for instance, Bobby went after the mob, people in the mob were going, huh, kill the wrong Kennedy, you know, because.

Francis Foster
And he was saying that it was J. Ed Cahoover who was in cahoots with the mafia. And the thing with JF. Edgar Hoover was, he was gay. Mafia ran gay clubs.

They had the dirt on him being a gay man, which whenever this was in mid sixties, early sixties, you couldn't be an openly gay man, right? And he was also a guy who, of course, if you're gonna be the guy that has secrets, you want the secrets on everybody else. So that's what he did. J. Edgar Hoover was famous for that.

Yeah. Being this guy would bring you into the office and show you pictures of you fucking some lady that's not your wife. You got any questions? What are you gonna do? What are you gonna do?

Joe Rogan
I think you know how to vote, right? Yeah, do that. Yeah, stay the fuck out of my office. Yeah, yeah. I mean, dirt back then, they could just.

There was no Internet. If they put in a story about you, you're fucked. It's rap. Everyone's gonna believe it. There's no way you could.

You, like, that's not even real. It's Photoshop. Like, there's so many of the photos of Lee Harvey Oswald that are in dispute. And one of them, it's a really weird one. It's him standing there with a rifle standing in the backyard.

And photo experts have looked at it and go, this is like, the shadows are all wrong here. Like, this photo looks manipulated. Like, they just take this photo of Lee Harvey Oswald, have him holding up some agenda. I forget what it was. And a rifle.

I'm like, hmm. Have you ever seen that photo? Nope. So you can find that. I would like to know if, like, real photograph photography experts have ever examined it, because I know that it's the subject of a lot of controversy.

They think it was a doctored photo, but he most certainly was a CIA guy. He went to Russia. He married a russian lady. They let him come back over here. They were probably all in on it.

He was probably in on it too. And they probably had him set up as being the dummy that they were going to say. And then they had Jack Ruby set up to kill him. So that would be. That's it.

We're done here. And until the Zapruder film got aired on the Geraldo Rivera show, no one had any idea. There was some weirdness to that assassination. Everybody assumed Lee Harvey Oswald was a terrible man, and he shot our favorite president. And then, you know, this guy who ran a club, hated him because he shot the president.

So he shot him and that's it. Goodnight.

Francis Foster
Mate. It's just when you look at these types of things and the more you dig, the more you kind of realize that there's cover up upon cover up upon cover up. And what is initially being fed to you ain't the truth. So here's the photograph. Do they think it's legit here?

Joe Rogan
Settling the controversy over a photo of Lee Harvey Oswald? This is from Dartmouth, so you know that it's corrupt and funded by the Chinese. Just kidding. What did they say? Did they say it's real?

I'm trying to dig through it real quick. They think it's legit. Our detailed. Right there. Our detailed analysis of Oswald's polls, the lighting and shadows in the rifle's hand, refutes the argument of photo tampering.

Interesting. There you go. Joe debunked, a pioneering researcher in digital forensics whose team developed mathematics, medical and computational techniques to detect tampering in photos, videos, audio recordings and other documents. Farid has examined the photo closely before in studies in 2000. 920 ten.

But these studies did not address the questions about Oswald's pose. In the new study, Farid and his team conducted a 3d stability analysis, concluding that, in fact, Oswald's stance does not support the claims of photo tampering. A study appeared in the Journal of Digital Forensic Security and Law. So it seems like in 2009 and in 2010, they thought it was monkeyed with. And then they got that chinese money.

I'm kidding. Go back to the photo again. But here's the thing. It's like, why wouldn't he pose like that? The guy was a psycho.

Francis Foster
Yeah. I mean, Lee Harvey Oswald was a mess, period. And probably an agent. What part of it did they think was fake? I guess.

Joe Rogan
I don't know. I think they thought they was someone else standing there like that. Like they added his face or something. Yeah, they. I think there was some argument about the proportions of the body, that it didn't quite match Lee Harvey.

What's he supposed to be holding? Like, tickets to Russia or something? Yeah, two tickets. Imagine. Tickets are that big.

Jeez. Yeah, they used to be probably what I think. Yeah. Especially back in the day. No, it's.

Francis Foster
That's the thing with. Because they definitely killed Kennedy. Yeah. When. When you prove.

When you put forward that theory, where you go, this feels sus. And then they never released the documents. I think it was time, wasn't it still. And Trump and Trump. Why didn't Trump release them?

No, he was going to and he said he was and then he never did. That's. That's what I'm asking. Why didn't he do it? I think his direct quote was, if they showed you what they showed me, you wouldn't release it either.

Konstantin Kisin
What the fuck does that mean? It means it probably. It's probably proof that someone that is trackable had Kennedy assassinated. Then there was a conspiracy, probably involving at least some members of the intelligence agency. So why wouldn't.

Joe Rogan
Because then it would call into. People would lose confidence entirely in the intelligence agencies if they knew that the intelligence agencies had not just gotten rid of Richard Nixon, which Tucker explained. I'm sorry you saw that. Like, that's a wild thing to know that a guy was a naval intelligence officer, gets a job as a reporter, and his first job as like an aspiring reporter is you get the biggest story in fucking United States history. And that CIA agents broke into Watergate and that the guy who they had put into position as the vice president, Gerald Ford, was the guy was on the Warren Commission report.

And that Spiro Agnew, who is the real vice president, they got him on tax evasion and locked him up. Like, it seems like a coup. That Woodward was getting his information from the FBI. Like, the whole thing was wild. When you hear about it that way, when, like, the way Tucker laid it out, you're like, whoa.

So they killed Kennedy. And apparently what Tucker was saying is that Nixon had said that he knew why they killed JFK. And that was the head of the CIA he was talking to. Is that what it was at the time? Did not respond at all?

And then next thing you know, like, within a short amount of time, Nixon's out. Wow. I guess what I'm asking, Joe, is surely not releasing it undermines confidence as well. It certainly does. But not as much because it's still a mystery.

So it maintains a mystery. It's been a mystery since we were kids. It was the first conspiracy that I ever got into. I was in New York and a friend of mine gave me a book. He said, you gotta read this.

It's called best evidence by David Lifton. And it's all about this guy who was an accountant, went over the Warren commission and he found all these real problems with it, all his contradictions. It didn't make any sense. It was all pieced together. No one thought anyone was actually gonna read the entire Warren commission.

It's like 9000 pages or something. And he did. And there's a lot of problems with it. The big one for me was always the bullet. The bullet's ridiculous.

The bullet's ridiculous. That bullet did not go through two fucking people and come out looking like that. That's not what happens to bullets. Bullets get destroyed, they get blown apart, they get fucking. They've never been able to shoot a bullet through two people's bodies and have it ricochet and move around like that and not distort and look like they just shot it into a pool.

Looks like they shot into a bag of pillows. It doesn't look anything like something that shattered bones. And they found more. They found evidence of, like, fragments in Connolly's wrist. And there's not fragments missing from the.

There's not enough fragments missing from this magic bullet that they found. And the only reason why they found the magic bullet at all, they had to come up with this theory because a guy had gotten hit by a ricochet in the underpass. So then they had to attribute all these different wounds to one bullet wounds on two different people. And bullets do weird shit. The path of the bullet doesn't bother me as much when people say, like, bullet's not gonna go here and here and here.

Yeah, it would. Yeah, yeah, they do. Yeah, they do. You can shoot someone in the eye and they're fucking. The bullet will bounce around inside their head and come out their face.

Weird things happen with bullets and guns. That doesn't bother me as much. But the idea that you're completely discounting the fact that he grabs his neck in the beginning and then his head goes back into the left, like, what's going on there? Is he getting shot from behind and it's a spinal movement, like a shock nerve thing, perhaps. Or perhaps he's getting shot in the head by two different people too.

It could be someone from behind and someone there could have been like a whole line of fire where they're shooting on this guy. And to try to, the only reason why they tried to attribute all those wounds instead of saying more people were shooting is because they wanted one conclusion, and that was Lee Harvey Oswald did it. And they didn't think he'd be able to shoot more than three times in that short amount of time that the, the president's car was going through there. Do you think Trump said that if we take. If I knew what he said, if I.

Francis Foster
If you knew what I knew, you wouldn't want me to release it either, right? Do you think that he said that. To someone and then that someone report, you know, who? It was that guy who was the Fox legal analyst, an older gentleman. Alan Dershowitz.

Joe Rogan
No, no, no, an italian guy. Fuck. But scar, what is his name? Scar Moochie. No, no, no.

Scar. No, not Scar. Moochie. God damn it. I don't remember his name.

But he's a guy that was, like, a legal guy who was always on Fox. He's a. And he had a conversation with Trump, allegedly, where he said that Trumpet said that you wouldn't have released it, too. Do you think they'll ever release him? No, no, no, I don't.

I don't think so. Do you think it's kind of this principle where there's a thread on the sweater. If you pull the. If you pull the thread, the sweater unravels. Do you think that the America as a country wouldn't be able to take the reveal of whatever happened?

Francis Foster
Because it would. It would then go on to undermine people's faith in the nation too much. Because if an organized agency like the CIA can go and kill the president of the United States. Yeah. Cover it up for however many years, then what else is possible?

And what does that mean in people who believe in this country? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. And then how much scrutiny would the intelligence agencies of today have to encounter now? Just from things that we know.

Joe Rogan
Right. We know that they put agents in crowds at protests. We know that for a fact. Okay, but what do those agents do? Are those agents there in case things go sideways, or are those agents making sure things go sideways?

Because those are two very different things. So we know both of those things have happened. So we know that they definitely put agents in place to make sure that if something happens, there's a law enforcement presence and they could arrest people. We also know that there are rogue agents that will get into these situations. And whether it's their job or whether it's.

They just act on their own or they want to cause someone to do a crime so they can bust them. We know that's real. It's agent provocateurs. It's a legitimate strategy. It's always been in place.

Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And it happens in other countries as well. All governments do it. All governments do it. Agent provocateurs, false flags.

Joe Rogan
All those things are real. Yeah. The Northwoods report, which Kennedy vetoed, Operation Northwoods. They were going to blow up a fucking drone jetliner and blame it on the Cubans. They were going to arm cuban friendlies and fuck up Guantanamo Bay.

They were just going to try to get us to war with Cuba by bullshit. And this was the joint chiefs of Staff. They signed off on it. They're like, sounds good. I like it.

Good plan, solid plan. And the argument against it is they draft a lot of different plans, and that one got vetoed, obviously. Like what? But no, no, you can't. You can't lie.

You can't say one of our plans is to lie. Don't. Don't lie like, that. Shouldn't be on the table. You shouldn't be able to lie to people.

Not just lie, but set up fake attacks, especially after you just did it in Vietnam. They did. And got away with it. The Gulf of Tonkin incident that got us into Vietnam. So they've always been doing that.

And so if they came out and gave us all the information on the Kennedy assassination, it would cause an erosion in our faith in government that has never been seen before. And I don't know how we would survive it. I mean, maybe they're right. Maybe they're right. Maybe keep it quiet.

Maybe don't do it anymore, but maybe keep it quiet, because if you do release that information, I bet the only thing that makes sense is that that's the case. Yeah, it doesn't make sense that it's innocuous and there's nothing to it. And Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. They would release that? Oh, for sure.

Konstantin Kisin
Well, there's definitely something going on. The question is, what is it? That's the dude. Yeah. Judge Napoleon.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. He's saying that Trump told him. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Wow.

Konstantin Kisin
Crazy, man. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about Trump, is that you listen to what that guy says. You went yet? Trump definitely said that.

Joe Rogan
But they hide things from Trump, too. Apparently, they were hiding the chinese weather balloons. They were hiding the spy balloons from him. Cause they were afraid he was gonna shoot them down.

Find out if that's true. I might have seen that on Reddit. I might have been on our conspiracy. Oh, man. Imagine knowing Trump.

Francis Foster
He tried doing himself as well. Shocking. No? I think he'd be up there in a helicopter with a fucking missile launcher himself.

Joe Rogan
Have you got the best accuracy? They've never seen accuracy like this before. Boom. Died like a dog. He'd finished with that.

Konstantin Kisin
He died like a dog. Yikes.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. Three chinese balloons flew over us during Trump presidency. Trump wasn't offered chances to shoot them down at the time until.

Konstantin Kisin
It's fucking insane. Yeah. Chump. Wasn't. I like how they say they hid it from him.

Joe Rogan
This is how they say they hit it from Trump. Wasn't offered chance to shoot them down at the time. He wasn't offered the chance at Cuz. Cuz they knew what happened. They didn't tell him that he could shoot him down.

Francis Foster
That's so funny, man. They don't trust the president and they're hiding that. That's insane. It's. Yeah, it's insane.

Konstantin Kisin
Fucking. Who the fuck are they? Who voted for them? Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, that's the thing. But when you get a guy like Trump who becomes president, it seems so ridiculous that he's president. All rules go out the window. Half the country voted for this, 100%. Look, I probably wouldn't have voted for Trump in 2016, but half the country did.

Konstantin Kisin
It was like the same with Brexit. They tried. We didn't vote for Brexit, but half the country did. Yeah, that's what democracy looks like, is sometimes you don't get your way. Yeah.

How fucking complicated is that to understand? Yeah, but if you're a corrupt piece of shit and you're very un american, then you feel like you should be. Able to do that or frame it another way. If you believe that this guy Prue is such a danger to democracy, that's how you argue it with yourself. That's how you square.

Francis Foster
You go, look, I'm doing the right thing here. I'm protecting my country. I'm stepping in when this person is clearly, you know, not fit to hold office. Blah. But I'm not saying I agree with it.

Joe Rogan
That's the real problem with the real misinformation media narrative. Like the Russia collusion hoax. Oh, man, that's a real problem because that in so many boomers minds, that guy was corrupt. Russia had something on him. There was the Steele dossier, hookers and pee pee and all that stuff.

Pentagon may have purposely hidden spy balloon from Trump. It was a republican representative from Florida that made the claim. He made the claim. But what was that other article's quote? That Trump wasn't offered the opportunity to shoot it down?

What was the source of that? So he's saying this because Trump denied that it even happened under his administration. Oh, but it did. But they did happen. So they didn't tell him.

So they didn't tell him or he lied. That's what this says is he spoke. That would never happen. Some speculation, and there's some speculation. I talked to Trump at the White House officials over the weekend that the Pentagon deliberately did it because they thought Trump would be too provocative and too aggressive.

It's unbelievable, but it's amazing that they think that they could tell him that. But listen, that's the whole idea, if you really want to have a president. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how AI is going to take over, because AI is going to be so much more reasonable, how it runs a country just given to Microsoft AI. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin
One thing if you really want to blow your own mind with this is if you think about where the large language models are getting their information from, where the AI is gathering its opinions about what human beings are. We all know that everything that happens online is not representative of the real world, but that is where the AI models are gathering the information. That's what they're reading, what people are writing online. So we are training these systems to think of us as the online shit that we all know is fake. We all know people don't talk online the way they talk, like in person.

Right. We all know that everything that happens there is a warped perception of reality. Yet that is exactly what AI is learning about who we are. But don't you think that the Google AI is a little bit more sinister than that? I don't think it's as simple as it's just getting all of its information online, because then there would be arguments.

Joe Rogan
There's a lot of arguments online as to whether or not trans women should be able to compete in women's sports. But if you ask those AI's, they come up with reasons why it should. If you have an ideologically programmed AI, that's not really AI. It's kind of like a propaganda. Mm hmm.

It's. You're. It's. It's not just looking at the opinions of all the people online. It's just not.

Konstantin Kisin
No, no. What the. What there is, I think, is probably just because most of the people who are doing the programming lean that way to them. This isn't, this isn't ideological to them. It's the truth.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, yeah, exactly. They have. They have the truth. They know what it is. Hashtag no debate.

Yeah. Hashtag no. No point debating, no point discussing. We know what the truth is. And anyone who disagrees with us, they're far right.

Francis Foster
Yeah, yeah. And what do we do with people who are far right? Yeah. Yeah. Cancel them.

Joe Rogan
Put them in jail. Cancel or put them in jail. Or. Maybe we need a final solution, Joe. What's the final solution?

Francis Foster
Well, you know, if somebody is gender critical, maybe, you know, maybe they just need to be put somewhere permanently. Well, they certainly shouldn't be a lot of work. No, absolutely. We can agree on that. It's so funny.

Konstantin Kisin
These people went so far. They're like, they think JK Rowling is a Nazi. They still haven't woken up. They still haven't gone. Maybe there's something wrong with our argument.

If JK Rowling is on the other. Team, it's like, oh, man, it's so funny. Did you see this tweet from? She's a beast, though, man. She's going at it.

Joe Rogan
She's going heels in. Yeah, good for her. Yeah, good for her. You know, there's this left wing journalist. I'm not gonna say the name, but her tweet made me laugh so much.

Francis Foster
She put out this tweet going, I am writing this tweet to apologize. On March 13, I called JK Rowling a holocaust denier. It's just like Holocaust denial. Why don't you call her that? Because in her mind, it's the same thing.

If you say trans women aren't women, you also say Auschwitz didn't happen. And I feel so strongly about it as someone who lost relatives in the Holocaust, what they've done to those words, Holocaust denier, Nazi, far right, is abominable. It really is what they have done to those words. The way they've diluted the meaning of these words that have very specific meanings. It's horrific.

Konstantin Kisin
And it's. By the way, it's costing us now because we can't have a genuine conversation about, like, some people are Holocaust deniers, some people are actually supportive of those ideologies, right? And you have to be able to distinguish between that and someone who thinks trans women shouldn't be fighting in a cage with real women. There's, like, some fucking difference there. There's a gap a little bit.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, just a little bit of a gap. And we. And words like they have a meaning for a purpose so that we can have a conversation. Yeah, yeah. It's.

Francis Foster
It's such an important point. And the worst bit is, is you have these people who are genuinely far right. They're terrifying. They have these awful views, and then when they challenge, they go, I'm not far right. Because you've said this person is far right.

That term doesn't mean anything. And you're like, you know what, Adolf? You've got a point, mate. Yeah, it's a real problem because it's. Gonna get flipped, mate.

Joe Rogan
Far right people, dangerous far right people are real. Just like dangerous far left people are real. And that's why being on this goofy team, left or right, is so stupid. You gotta think for yourself. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin
You gotta think for yourself. Yeah. And life is complicated and it's full of complexity and nuance and nobody has the full picture of reality. That's where you gotta talk. That's why you need Jesus.

I mean, that's what Jordan is talking about. That's what Jordan's talking about. Yeah, he is. Well, structure. Some kind of divine structure.

Joe Rogan
Something, whatever it is. I mean, I know a lot of people that are Muslims that are very happy, and they're happy because of the discipline that it gives them. They believe. They believe it gives them a structure. And a lot of people out there don't have that.

And I don't think that's good either. No, he's really in the Inquirer of it. His current tour is called we who wrestle with God. And he's really. I mean, what he's really doing is telling people stories from the Bible and illustrating and breaking down how they apply to your life.

Konstantin Kisin
And it's amazing. I mean, I'm not a believer. Well, yeah, I'm not, I guess. But seeing the difference that makes to people, just him telling them how to live a good life. Thousands of people every night and they aren't there for his, like, culture war takes.

Joe Rogan
Right. They aren't there to see him take down Justin Trudeau or whatever. They're there because he's like. We were in the cigar bar in Tulsa with the guy who does the music, David Cotter, and we were just sitting there and the guy came up. He was at the show, started talking, and before we knew, there was like three guys there.

Konstantin Kisin
And one of. I mean, I remember one of them, especially Devon Black guy, he was saying, like, I don't know about his politics. People say all this crazy shit, like, when my sister died, Jordan Peterson's 32nd clip on the Internet is the only reason I didn't kill myself. Wow. And I've been hearing those stories every night, man.

It's. Well, he has a very profound impact on people. For sure. Yeah. And he also struggles with fame, which is a weird thing to be introduced to when you're in your forties.

Francis Foster
Yeah. You know, you've been anonymous your whole life, and then all of a sudden you're a polarizing, often misrepresented world figure. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the.

That's how unfair it is, is the way, you know, I would take real exception to this. The way that he's being portrayed, where people go. He's just like Andrew Tate and you guy. Yeah, he's got a penis. They drink water and.

Yeah, same thing. Yeah. Man, it's insane. But you know what? I have to say, from what I've observed over the last couple of weeks, he's on the other side of all those troubles.

Joe Rogan
That's good. Yeah. You know, he's. I've never met anyone who's. Whose message and the person are so closely aligned.

Konstantin Kisin
Like, he's. He's a great man. He is a great man. And last time he was here, he was, like, at his best. He struggled coming back from the benzodiazepine problem.

Joe Rogan
That's a. That's a scary one, man. That's really scary one. No, he's through that. And, like, just observing him day to day because, you know, when you spend time with people, you see them at their worst.

Yes. And their best. Yes. I've never met anyone who's inspired me as much to, like, be a good person. That's awesome.

Yeah. I always say he's insanely misrepresented and he's a great guy, but he's so polarizing. You see, like, whenever there's some sort of a Jordan Peterson thing, a story or anything, I'll read, like, what people have to say about it. It's like, God damn. Like, it's, again, also indicative of the kind of people that post things like.

Like that. Like, that's not generally a healthy person who's posting, like, aggressively shitty misrepresenting, but it's, like, very common that there's people like that, especially on Twitter or on Facebook or any of these places, that just encourage mental illness, which is a lot of what it is. Well, here's the thing, though, man. In the real world, he's selling out fucking basketball arenas, and it's full of well dressed people who are there with their partner that they met because of the advice he gave them, or they're there to meet him because he's changed their life, or they didn't kill themselves or they got a job or whatever. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin
That's the impact he's actually making. Yeah. On people's lives. And it's. It's so impressive.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, we need more people like that. We need way more people like that. Yeah. We need more people that show an example, like, an interesting, fascinating example of how to live your life. The problem is, is that we live in a world of shortcuts.

Francis Foster
You know, if you want an online following, we all know what we can do in order to get an online following. It's not particularly hard. You can game the system, you know, the tweets to write, and that will. Then you know, gain traction, which will gain you followers, whatever else, you know, what you have to do if you want to create a content online. When it comes to podcasts that will get people talking, we all know it.

Yeah, but actually it's far, far more difficult to be authentic and to actually say, you know what, I'm gonna do something because it's the right thing to do. Not, buddy, because it's going to benefit me in the short term. Not because it's going to lead to certain deals, not because it's going to lead me to this particular place where my ego demands that I should be. I'm actually going to take the long route. I'm going to do what's right.

And we live in a society where we're constantly being offered the shortcut all the time. And we know that if we take the shortcut, we're going to get a little bit of a response from our brain. We'll go, well done on taking the short shortcut. It takes a hell of a lot of discipline, hard work, and sometimes real frustration to go, I'm not going to take the shortcut. I'm not going to be inflammatory.

I'm not going to say the thing that I know will guarantee clicks and more money and more revenue. I'm going to go this path and I just have to have the courage of my own convictions that where this path will lead me will be somewhere where I want to be, as opposed to somewhere that I know definitely in the long term will take me on the route to hell. Cause that's where some people are. It's so interesting you say hell because I never really understood, when people ask Jordan about heaven and hell, he always brings it back to heaven and hell on earth. And what he's really saying is, like, every decision you make when you know it's the wrong decision, you're gonna pay for that.

Konstantin Kisin
Not in some fucking magic world afterwards, when you're dead, you're gonna pay for that in this life. Yeah. And when you make good decisions, that's not to say that good things don't happen to bad people and bad things don't happen to good people. But over the course of a lifetime, every bad decision you make will come back and we all know this is true. Like, it's a kind of, what you're talking about is the opposite of the marshmallow test, right?

Like the ability to suspend gratification is the most, the best predictor of long term success, right? And so if you're able to just wait and not jump on this dopamine hit right now over the course of your life, that will be rewarded. And that's basically the model he's giving people. Just be good. You know what you know?

And his argument is you do need God. His definition of God is different to most people's, but it's fundamentally he's just going around telling people how to live their lives in a positive way. It's, how is it different? How's this, his view of God? It's very difficult to get a kind of, to get to it.

He doesn't like being asked if he believes in God because his thing is like, well, what you're doing is you're saying like there's a God and gnome in the sky. Do you believe in that? And it's a way of trivializing his belief about it. You'd have to ask him directly. But I think, you know, him and I have gone back and forth.

He really brought me over to argue with him and try and challenge his ideas from just an outsider perspective, really. So we've gone back and forth. And I think his idea is that the way he talks about is like God is the opposite of evil. God is how you know what is right and what is wrong and it's something that leads you up instead of leading you down. That's what he thinks of as God.

It's like the fundamental question is where does morality come from? From? And his argument is the evolutionary theory may well be true, but it's insufficient, particularly insufficient to give us meaning and for the west to survive. How do you survive? How does a civilization of people who don't know what they believe in survive in the battle of civilization with people who do know what they believe in, who have a strong idea?

But you mentioned, you know, Islam for example, right? How do you, how do you navigate that when you don't know what you believe, when you don't know what you stand for, when you can't even say? Not believing in free speech is un american. If you've got no values of your own, how are you going to navigate the world in that way? Right.

And so his argument is very much that we need to, we need to be inspired by something divine to be our best selves and to know who we are. That's such a profound thing because when people say to be inspired by the divine, they automatically think of God. But the reality is you can find God in anywhere. And if you to be inspired by the divine, for me it's to be the thing that I love the most. Is to be creative, is to write, is to be in that moment where you were writing and you're like, oh, this idea and this idea and this idea, and you feel, whatever, disregard the ult, the end product.

Francis Foster
But that moment is to be divine. Because you are truly at one with what you are, who you are, and what you love and you are passionate about the most. That is the divine. Now, for somebody else, it can be another type of thing, but would be. A big part of it.

Konstantin Kisin
Like, when you are in love and you're truly present with the person you love, it kind of feels infinite. It kind of feels like that moment is. It's. You can't. It can't exactly be measured in time.

You can't go, that was 63 seconds where we stared into each other's eyes and said nothing or whatever that was. Right. And I think part of it's exactly what you're saying is there's these states that we go into in relation to ourselves or to other people that transcend the reality in which we exist. And I think that may well be a part of his. You know, you have to ask him because his views are complicated, but it's kind of part of his definition, I think, of what God is.

Francis Foster
Yeah, because, and I think deep down, that's what we're all looking for, really, is to be in this state where we're not thinking about ourselves. Because thinking about yourselves is why we're so miserable. Because we're being trained continually going on social media doing this. What am I doing? Myself.

Myself. Myself. That's with a way to end up perpetually, thoroughly miserable and a version of hell. Yeah, but to be in a state where you are creating, where you are doing something that you love, where you are with people that you love, where you're with your children, your wife, your partner, whoever it is, and you have that connection. That really is.

That's life, is the connection. And the opposite of life, for me, is disconnection. To me, there is nothing more tragic than when I sit down at a table and I see. I look over at a restaurant, I see a beautiful young couple. During the bloom of life.

They're youthful, they have. They're in that moment where particularly potential seems limitless. And they're both staring down at their phones, and they're not looking into each other's eyes, and you want to say to them, what are you doing? You know? And I know we all do it, and I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

I'm not saying that I'm not. But that moment when you have that connection with love, I think that's what we're all seeking deep down. It's what we all crave, that there. Is, you know, and his argument is that. But what we saw in the 20th century is, as Nietzsche predicted, the death of God causing the breakdown of our belief, and therefore world War two and everything that happened there, Mao, the Soviet Union, etcetera, about the 21st century, though, I think there's maybe something else going on as well, which is we've mentioned the sexual revolution and people having fewer kids and also people being crammed into cities.

Konstantin Kisin
The urbanization that we've seen over the last 150 years changes everything. I remember reading a book by a guy called. He was a zoologist, Desmond Morris, and the book was called the Human Zoo. He wrote a book called the Naked Eye. But the human zoo is the one I'm thinking of.

And his central argument was, when you put animals in the conditions that human beings live in, big cities, you get the same pathologies. Mental health, violence, you know, atomization, depression, all the same shit happens. And so you've got urbanization, you've got the pill, which changes testosterone levels in men. Women are attracted to men with lower testosterone. That would be one driver.

Another driver would be getting in the water supply. You know, the Alex Jones making the frog gay point, turns out it's kind of true. And then you put all that together, and then you add the death of belief, and you've got a very powerful mix to explain what's going on. Yeah, the Alex Jones thing is it's atrazine, right? Is that what it is?

Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's a pesticide, I believe. Okay. Is it an herbicide or a pesticide? So it's not the pill. It's not the contraceptive pill.

Konstantin Kisin
Getting into the water. That's not what. What he was saying was turning the frogs. Okay. There's a thing called, I think, I believe it's called atrazine.

Joe Rogan
And what it does is it will actually turn male frogs into females. They actually morph, and it makes a bunch of them incapable of breeding. It has, like, very weird endocrine disruptor effects. So this in the water supply, there's. Stuff in the water supply that's messing with hormones and all that kind of stuff.

I think birth control pills are in the water supply, too. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And plastics and the microplastics. And they haven't. They have.

And even, like, antidepressants, right? Some water supplies have trace element. Trace amounts of antidepressants. In them. And cocaine as well.

Francis Foster
Yeah. Well, there's some good news. Particularly energetic population. What are you making your pasta with, Mike? So.

Konstantin Kisin
And then, you know, the sexual revolution also causes the breakdown of the family. Far fewer people are growing up in an intact household. You put all that shit together and you get to where we are. Yeah. And it's so interesting as well.

Francis Foster
Like, you see people talking in the UK and they go, oh, Britain doesn't have. There's no such thing as british culture. And you're going, you just. Let's just look at what Britain has created in terms of literature, art, philosophy, theatre, music. You're saying there's no culture.

And then if you said this to a lot of young people, they'd simply look at you and nod. Well, why are they allowed to say that? Because it's white people. Yeah. A lot of it, I think.

I think a lot of it would be. Yeah. But it's also, like. That seems so silly, though, in terms of, like, arguing the evidence. I think the confusion that people have is.

Konstantin Kisin
I think especially after World War two, there was this idea that nationalism, like, that was nationalism and patriotism leads to nationalism. Therefore you shouldn't be patriotic, because then you're gonna end up just like Hitler, which seems a little bit tenuous to me. Like, there's quite a lot of intermediary steps there. People are allowed to be proud of their country and love their country without being aggressive about it. Yeah, you don't.

Joe Rogan
You don't have to be Hitler. You don't have to seem fucking obvious. Yeah, fucking obvious. Right. Well, especially in a country like this, that's essentially founded by immigrants.

So obviously, there's some people here first, but after that, it's immigrants. And so the whole idea is that we all agree this is supposed to be a place where you have the first amendment, freedom of speech. It's a very important part of what it means to be an american. It's a big part of the whole setup, the whole way it runs, is people had to have very controversial ideas, be willing to risk their lives and come here from another country to try to set up shop, try to set up this new way of living. And it's the best way.

It's not perfect, but it's the best way currently available. And if you're trying to fight that in any way, specifically, if you're trying to fight the very first amendment, you're un american. It's really simple. And to your point, if you think about what you're just talking about, which is the history of your country, 1776 and all the rest of it. If you had these people trying to shut down freedom of expression as they are now, that would never happen.

Konstantin Kisin
The pamphlets go out. Oh, this is hate speech. Ban it. Right? They're disrupting the fabric of, you know, whatever the argument.

Joe Rogan
Exactly. Shut it down. Shut it down. Yeah. What do you, when you, do you ever take like an overview approach to, like, society and just stop and think, like, where is this all going?

And why is it so contentious and chaotic? Is this just the only way that human beings are able to progress is they have to be constantly at battle and then they kind of both have to kind of improve their positions as time goes on. Well, look at our societies. I mean, it's kind of weird discussing any of these conflicts around the world because you have to be able to hold two things in your head at the same time. On the one hand, war is horrific.

Konstantin Kisin
It's fucking horrific. So one of the worst things that humans being do to each other, and on the other hand, it's completely normal. Look around. You go to London, you go where? You go to Trafalgar Square, named after the Battle of Trafalgar.

What do you see there? Nelson's column, named after Admiral Nelson. You go to Paris, what do you see? The arc of Arc de Tramp. Right?

Every society defines itself by the conflicts it's for and won. So it just seems like this isn't, I mean, we're bands of chimps and chimps go to war and so do we. It just seems like. I don't, I don't think we're ever going to get out of that paradigm until we're those fat motherfuckers with milkshakes floating around on pods. Maybe that's what we need to do in order to guarantee world peace.

But you'd love that, wouldn't you? Yeah, I would do, mate. Just going to my base instincts, fuck it. I'd be like, definitely. But it's also, we had a guy on the show way back when we started, a guy that I grew up with called Doctor Mike Martin.

Francis Foster
And he's a professor of war studies, former military guy, really smart guy. And he was talking about oxytocin. And he wrote a book called why we fight, which is the evolutionary biological analysis of warfare, why it is that human beings fight. And he talked about oxytocin. And oxytocin is the hormone that you feel.

You feel it. It's a tingly hormone. When you go to a concert and, you know, the band comes on and does their big hit, which is massive and anthemic, and everybody sings along, and you get the little tingle in the back of the neck. And that hormone has two functions. Number one, it creates an in group to say, we are the group.

This is who we are. Right. And that was very, very necessary for evolutionary reasons, for, obviously, the second part of its function, it creates suspicion of the out group. So you go, it's kind of hardwired into us that we're like, we're this group and we're a little team, and then we don't like them. And then when you kind of see society people going, I'm liberal, I don't like conservatives, and vice versa and all the other nonsense, you go, how much of this is actually conscious and how much of this is actually biologically programmed?

And is there another factor? Because I go a bit smug, and I go, any portrayal, whatever else, and I get on my little high horse and start lecturing, you go, well, that ain't true either. But also, maybe I don't feel the hormonal. Maybe it doesn't have as profound impact on me as it does on somebody else when the moment they're in a tribe, they feel this overwhelming sense of acceptance and joy. Yeah, but if someone invaded your town, you'd get to that point very quickly.

Yeah. Fuck these guys. We're going to the front line. Yeah. We all would, right.

Yeah. You're a fighter. You do that. If someone was, your family is under threat, you'd lay down your life for them. Right.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. And people think they're engaged in a virtual war. Yeah. They really do. Yeah.

They think they're on the right side of things. Everybody else is a Nazi. Well, that that's the thing to try and get away from both left and right, I think can be guilty of that. We just got to try and remember we are on the same team. What was your take on all this Candace Owen daily wire stuff?

Konstantin Kisin
Oh, I don't know if I can say it really well.

I think that she's very charismatic and very talented as a broadcaster, but I thought her branching out beyond the core issues that she initially focused on was a bit of a disaster. You mean like McCrone's wife being a man.

Francis Foster
Now? But I was like, what are you doing? Right. So I just. I think the big tragedy of this whole fallout is, like, it was the wrong hire for the daily wire.

Konstantin Kisin
It was wrong place, but it was. Great at the time. Well, yeah. Cause if you're charismatic and you're talking about issues on which you are, you know, accurate? Gonna do well, wasn't like her billboard when they first signed her for the daily wild.

Joe Rogan
Didn't say, like, uncance. No, uncancellable, was it? Yeah. See if you can find that, Jamie. I think that's what it says.

Konstantin Kisin
So I. Look, I don't want to, like, piss. Disrespect people and anything. I just think it was the wrong partnership, probably, you know? What did she say that got her fired?

Oh, I don't know. I have no idea. No, I don't know. Someone said that one of the controversies online is that she had wrote christ is king and put that. And someone had said that that was anti semitic.

I think she liked a tweet that was kind of like blood libel. Uncancellable. Since 1989, Daily Wire. Whoops. It's the problem that if you create an organization whose slogan is free speech, you're never going to be able to have an editorial policy, which is what they're now trying to have.

They're trying to say, well, if you work at this organization, it's like Fox News or CNN or anywhere. Like, as you get bigger, you start to be faced with the fact that, like, people have different opinions, and some people's opinions are going to be outside of the scope of what the people who run it believe. So if you want to be independent, you're going to have to stay independent. By the way, some of those people that have opinions outside the scope of what you're supposed to think are fun. Sure.

Joe Rogan
They're interesting to listen to. I don't necessarily know if McCrone's wife is a man, but the story is hilarious. Sure. That there's actual journalists that are working on this, and she's reporting their work. The real.

The true story about her meeting him when he was 15 is crazy enough. Yeah. As a drama teacher, that's crazy enough. When did you guys start hooking up? Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin
So I agree with you about fun, but I also think when you are communicating to millions of people, there is an accuracy issue that has to, has to also happen. Yeah, right. Especially that one. Right. Like, that's kind of.

Kind of a big deal. Well, my take is, if they're. If that's a man, right? Doesn't that man. You just want to talk about my crown's wife.

Sorry, I misunderstood this conversation. They have children. She has children. Look, it's a dumb shit. It's a dumb thing to say.

It's not fucking true. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. So, so my.

Joe Rogan
And so why. But if it's not true. Why do these journalists think it's true? I have no idea, man. It's not Internet as well, man.

Like, it's the best. Yeah. I mean, I think the issue, like, again, it comes down to the fact that you get this huge platform, you do very well, you build up this massive audience, and then you start going, well, I'm a public figure. I need to have opinions on whatever is going on. Right, right.

Francis Foster
And the problem comes, like, take Israel Palestine. Like, I've never spoken about it publicly as to what I think, because the reality is, I don't fucking know. I don't know. I know. I know I've got enough to formulate some kind of opinion, but do I want it challenged?

Do I want to go up against an expert? Do I want someone to push back on my ideas? No, because I don't really know. I read about it and I'm just formulating my opinion. But I think the danger comes when you have that type of audience and that type of platform and you are a political commentator, so you feel compelled to have an opinion about everything.

You rapidly wade into things that you know nothing about. And by the way, just to say, like Francis and I, we have that attitude to ourselves. Right? So we are like, we. I'm not sure we should be talking about this because we.

Konstantin Kisin
We don't know that we know enough. Yeah. You know, so. And it's, it's a hard thing to navigate because what happens is, and you see this with stand up comics, too, it's like you're on stage in front of 100 people or a thousand people or 5000 people. Suddenly your opinion is, like, important.

Suddenly you know what you're talking about. Because lots of people listening to you, and there are some things on which you do know what you're talking about, but there's also a shit ton of things that you don't know. And you've got a show tomorrow and you got to have an hour's worth of content. So here's my opinion on Ukraine, here's my opinion on Israel. Here's my opinion about Macron's wife.

Here's my opinion on this shit. And before you know it, unconsciously, I suspect you're in over your head and you're saying things that you, you are not qualified to comment on. You're, you're not, you haven't done the research, you haven't understood that issue. But here you are giving your opinion, and. And that's a trap for a lot of people in our space.

Joe Rogan
It really is it's a trap. When you have a mic and you don't know to do what you just said. Wait, formulate these opinions, take in the information, try to figure out what's true and what's not true. Yeah. You know.

Francis Foster
Yeah. And there's a difference between, like, three guys having a conversation, and you go, here's my opinion. And I go, here's my opinion. And you go, here's my opinion. Let's have a chat and find out.

Konstantin Kisin
And none of us is attached to that opinion being true. Everyone's willing to change their mind. We're not telling the audience this is the truth. Right. But when you're doing your own show, just you.

Just you. And you're reading an hour's worth of stuff that you've written or someone's helped you write to the camera, that's a very different ballgame. Very different. It's a very different conversation. I think ultimately, the conflict between the daily wire and Candace Owens is about that, not about, you know, anti semitism, whatever.

I just think it was not the right fit. And over time, those cracks have widened. That's my understanding from, you know, speaking to people on various sides of it. I think everyone's better off being independent anyway. Yeah.

Francis Foster
Yeah. You know? Yeah. I'm sure she's got a giant audience independently now. Sure.

Konstantin Kisin
I wish her every success. You know, agree or disagree on issues. You always want people to do well. But I just think it was a conflict based on the fact that there's different values, different attitudes, different. Did you see that?

Joe Rogan
The professor at Columbia today, a jewish professor who is pro Israel, he got locked out. And so there's these videos of him standing in front of the crowd and saying, they are locking me out. They won't let me teach. They won't let me into the building. My car doesn't work anymore because he's pro Israel.

Konstantin Kisin
Right, Joe, there's the funniest thing. You got to see this. This 2015 NFL skit. Have you seen this? No.

Jamie, could you go on my twitter? It's one of my recent tweets. It says, how did they know? This is the funniest thing I have seen in years. This is from 2015.

2015. And it's a sketch about a guy dropping his daughter off at college. Wow. Jamie, are you able to find it? Thank you, my brother.

Francis Foster
Cool. This 120 15. Was that right when Jordan Peterson started becoming famous? Was it? I think he was 2016.

Yeah, it was 2016. 2015. What was going on in 2015? 2015 was definitely when he was experiencing that stuff yeah. In Toronto.

What was. It was 2015. Evergreen, go full screen with this. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Joe Rogan
That's a good. Is that 2015? What was that sketch on SNS? And I said, NFL before SNL. That wouldn't.

Was on SNL. Yeah. That was one of the best things SNL's ever done. Yeah. That's.

Konstantin Kisin
How good is that, man? That bit, when he goes, death to America. I was like, yeah, that's what they're saying. Yeah. Oh, my God.

That's what they're saying on college campuses. Yeah, they're saying that. And this pro israeli guy got kicked off. You just. You actually stop at times and go, what is actually happening?

Francis Foster
What is actually happening? Well, we've all been talking about him and for how many years have been talking press. Oppressed dynamics inevitably creates the shit. Yeah. It's inevitable.

Yeah. It's never. It's also being influenced by foreign countries. Yeah. Yeah.

Konstantin Kisin
Oh, yeah. They will always do that. Yeah. They will always do amazing job with universities. But we have to.

We have to weaken our own immune system for them to be able to be successful. Yeah. Yeah. True. And we've also got to offer up our kids.

Francis Foster
I don't think enough people make this point. There's lots of people pointing the fingers going, kids are stupid. Kids are this. Kids are this. Kids are.

Whatever. Yeah. You're gonna raise kids a certain way. They're gonna turn out a certain way. How have you raised them?

Is it really the kid's fault or actually is the reason you're pointing at them and mocking them and deriding them? Cause you know, you've fucked up. And it's the easy thing to do to point at the kids when the fact that actually they've been raised wrong. Yeah. On the other hand, and when you become a parent, you'll maybe see this differently as well, is you only have a certain amount of influence in a society where you send your kids to school, you send them to college.

Konstantin Kisin
That's what they're taught, the things that they're taught, they naturally will want to rebel against their parents, is what all kids want to do. And if they're fed this very simplistic narrative about, you know, life is about there's some people who control everything and they're oppressing everyone and there's lots of people who are oppressed and the way, you know, who's oppressing, who's. By. Who's successful. Right.

So what you've built in then is if you're successful, you're a bad guy. And if you're struggling, you're a good guy. And then you look at all the different ethnic groups, and suddenly, you know, Asian Americans, Jews, and whatever, these groups that are, quote unquote, over perform, they're overrepresented. Once you create the idea that some people are overrepresented and some people are underrepresented, you inevitably come to this point. Inevitably, people will inevitably start hating successful minorities, and they will stop, and they will look at everyone else as the oppressed underdog.

I mean, Thomas Sowell's latest book, Social Justice Fallacies, he talks about how every single brewery, major brewery in the world, was founded by Germans, including Tsingtao, the Chinese Brewery. Wow. Because those people have perfected the art of brewing over hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. And every group is going to have its own advantages and disadvantages. Some people are better at hockey.

Some people are better at basketball. Some people are better at making money by being lawyers. Some people are better at making money by being podcasters or something else. Right. You can't just look at people as members of groups and go, we know everything about this group.

If this group is doing well in society, that means they're oppressors. But that's the position we've come to. And it's because of indoctrination in education. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's be honest.

It's indoctrination in education guided by, you know, funded and supported by foreign powers. Yeah. And we've allowed it to happen. Yeah. We've allowed it to happen.

Joe Rogan
And kids are getting brainwashed. Yeah. And I completely agree. And, you know, that's why I have real empathy for a lot of these kids. I'm like, you've just been fed this crap since you.

Francis Foster
Since the moment you entered the education system, and then you come out at the age of 1819, and you're spouting this nonsense. Yeah, but what do we tell our kids? Well, I used to work in a school. What did we say when we, when I was a teacher? Listen to your teacher.

Don't question, don't challenge, particularly with the younger ones. You do what your teacher tells you to do. If your teacher tells you to do this in maths, you do this in maths. Not only that, it's a person in a position of authority that has control over an entire group of people, which we already know how that dynamic goes with cults and with presidents, with everything else. And then you have this group of people that are filled with anxiety, that want to make it in life.

Joe Rogan
And if there's a very clear path that you have to follow. They're just going to be influenced to follow it. It's real simple to do to young people. You take them away from their parents, their parents are probably overbearing, they finally get to be themselves and free Palestine and then they just, from the river to the sea, they're just out there in the streets. And it's absolutely true.

Francis Foster
And if you look at, I don't know, in America, but in the UK, a teacher is described as being in loco parentis, which means in the role of the parent. So that is your role when you're a teacher in the UK, it's in the role of the parent. That's your responsibility to look after these kids, teach them. But also there's a pastoral aspect to it. So if you're in the role of the parent and you have these dangerous.

Joe Rogan
Ideologies and you might not even have any kids. Oh, yeah, right. Then you have blue hair and a bunch of. Yeah, like libs of TikTok. I mean, she's posting this stuff every day.

Yeah. And you have 18 different pronouns you like to use. Yeah. And you're one of these awful teachers where you're like, I want the kids to be my friend. You're like, why do you want to be friends with a nine year old?

Konstantin Kisin
Did you ever see any footage from the stuff we did at the protest? We went along to, I went along to a few protests and talked to people. Have you seen, have you seen any of this? No, we have like a five minute clip which protests? Both.

So in London, I went along to march against anti semitism and I went along to pro Palestine protests, two of them, and an extinction rebellion protest. That was fucking incredible. What is Extinction Rebellion? Extinction Rebellion is a group that's fairly small in this country but very big in the UK, and they basically want us to stop using oil and gas and producing energy through fossil fuels. So the folks that glue themselves to the wall.

Yes, the ones. Yeah, those are the guys. Yeah. But interesting, we have Jamie, we have a couple of minutes clip, if you're interested, Joe, from me, and I was very journalistic about it. I didn't go in to try and misrepresent anybody.

I just talked to people, that's all I did. And I'd ask them, you know, you've got this placard with this free Palestine or from the river to the sea, what does that mean? Right. And we, we didn't edit it, we didn't massage it, we showed you every, over the course of the 30 minutes video. We showed you every single person we spoke to, pretty much.

Right. And it's just fascinating. You talk about, like, these kids don't know anything. Like, you have no idea how much they don't know anything, you know? And they're well intentioned people.

They're not bad people. They're there because they've seen kids being blown up on their timeline. And, you know, that's understandable. You'd be freaked out by that. And if you're a human being, you'd be freaked out by that.

Yeah, but, Jamie, if you're able to play a minute or two, I think you'd find it interesting, Joe. Okay, where's that? It's on YouTube, but it'll be one of our most recent YouTube clips. Oh, yeah.

So I just noticed the signs you got. From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. What does that mean? Well, it's quite self explanatory. Well, it's a little bit more complicated than that, isn't it?

Because I guess what I mean is, how would that come about? What would happen to the Israelis, etcetera? I don't. I'm trying to think of how to word it.

Francis Foster
Isn't it just a self explanatory? The area of land. It's Palestine's land. Yeah. So when you say Palestine, which puppet do you mean?

Yeah, the Gaza Strip. Gaza Strip. The West Bank. West bank. Yeah, that's it.

I don't know. Is there another self explanatory? I'm getting confused. I thought it was self explanatory. What about either of you?

Konstantin Kisin
It's a bullshit question. Why? Well, tell me, why is it getting involved in this? But it's so, like, inflammatory. No, it's.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, it's just really inflammatory. Yeah, it's inflammatory. What. I'm not getting involved. Okay, all right.

Konstantin Kisin
I was just asking what it meant. Oh, do you agree with the sign? Yeah, of course. And what does it mean to you? Palestinians to be free?

You know, in. Well, it says Palestine. So I was asking them which bit of the area. Yeah. The people that have been oppressed, for them to be free, you know, Gaza, West bank, then.

Joe Rogan
People to be free. Gaza and West bank? Yeah. All Palestinians in general, you know, because we know that what's going on, all of them are being oppressed. So for them to be free, you know, it's nothing.

Nothing, you know, it's clear as day, you know. Yeah, yeah. I was just asking them which bit of the land they mean. Because some people mean all of the land, including the bit where Israel is now. And that's why there's was some debate about, you know, what the main message is.

Palestinians that are being oppressed, for them to be free, you know, and for everyone to live in harmony regardless of your religion or whatever it is. Because historically speaking, the, we say Muslims, Jews, Christians have been living there for centuries, you know, living in good peace. But when early in recent times, all of this issue has been going on, you know, but I think. How long. How long would you say this issue has been going on?

As far as I know, obviously I'm not as educated on this topic, for example, with other people, but for roughly around 75 years, since I think the mandate from 45, just after World War, I think is when the issues, you know, when the British came and started cutting up lands and taking the lands of the Palestinians, I think that's when the issue started, you know. Well, yeah, before that you had the Ottoman Empire there, which had very strong control over the area. Yeah, that makes sense. Any attack on civilians is not justified, you know, regardless of whatever happened, you know. But I think the issue really should.

What is the origin of this problem? You know, history has not started October 7. You know, we have to see, the real origin of this was, as I. Said, 75 years ago. Obviously, I'm not as educated on this topic, but for, because what I see now is this whole issue is being portrayed as if civilization and history started from October 7 and onwards.

But no, that's not the real, that's early aspect. The whole issue is obviously, as we said, from, you know, 70, 80 years ago. And I think that contributes to what is going on today from, from both sides, you know, from the palestinian side as well as the israeli side. All right, so we are. Skip forward a few seconds.

Konstantin Kisin
Just a few seconds. We don't need me talking. Just there's one more bit. Here we go. This alternative to Sunak and Sama for a socialist intifada.

What's a socialist intifada? If I'm being honest with you, I. Just got this at the stand over there. I don't actually know the definition of the word intifada. Okay.

Joe Rogan
But I mean, do any of you. Know the definition of the word intifada? Stop bombing Gaza. That makes sense. What about that one?

Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And what does that mean? Well, it means to.

Joe Rogan
Stop the israeli occupation of Palestine. From which river to which sea?

Konstantin Kisin
From the Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea. Yeah. So does that mean that all of Israel should be what is now Israel should be Palestine, in your opinion? No, I personally don't think that. I think there's.

Joe Rogan
I mean, I'm definitely not the person to talk to about this, but I know that there's multiple strategies that people have come up with, like a two state solution or one state solution. I think, ideally, I would like to see one multi faith state that is. Neither Israel nor Palestine. There we go.

Strong opinions to be out there marching. Yeah. At least it had done a lot of research. Can you imagine marching with a sign that you don't know what it means? Well, also, they've been handed those signs, which is wild, too.

So that's organized. Right. And then they also know that people are very gullible, and people like to be out in protests. Yeah. And that.

Konstantin Kisin
And like I said, they're not bad people. No. Look at those kids. They're decent people. Informed.

They're not informed at all, and yet. They'Re protesting, which is interesting. So most of the people I spoke to were somewhere along that. So pretty decent people and not hateful. Most of them, there is a minority, but most of them, they're not hateful.

They're not bad people. But what they are is very ill informed. And the other thing is, I'm starting to kind of see the distinction. There are some people who have an activist mindset, and there are some people who have a pragmatist mindset, and that's the activist mindset, which is if we complain enough, if we make enough noise, if we draw enough attention, then someone else will fix things. Right.

The pragmatist mindset is like, how do we move forward from here? And that's the question I was putting to them, is, like you say we need from the river to the sea, that. That, you know, that means there shouldn't be any Israel, right? Because that's what that means. From the river Jordan to the Mediterranean, that means there would be no Israel.

And then when you say to them, well, is that what you're asking for? No, I want everyone to live in peace and harmony. Well, have you been to the fucking Middle east? Yeah.

Good luck with that. Right. So these. These things are very, very complicated. Very complicated.

And that's why they haven't been resolved for 75 years. So the way to try and resolve them is to think about how do we move forward. We can get stuck in 75 years of history. That's not going to take you anywhere. You think bickering about what happened in 1945 is going to solve anything?

Is that what you think? 1960? That's going to solve something? No, man. The way forward is to find a way for both sides to live, a, ideally separately from each other, and b, for economic growth and development to be happening there and for security to be available to the Palestinians and to the Israelis.

Right. And I'm not saying that from any deep place of expertise. It's just like the obvious thing. Right. People don't fight when they're happy and comfortable and safe.

Right. How you get there is very, very complicated discussion, but it's not protesting with a sign you don't understand. Well, that's just indicative of just human nature. Right. Right.

Joe Rogan
People want to be on the virtuous side. They want to be on the side, the right side of the protest. And obviously, you say something like, free Palestine. Who's going to argue with that? Of course.

Everyone should be free. Free Palestine. Yeah, definitely. And so you're out there with a sign, I'm doing the right thing. And it's that simple.

And it's hard to really pay attention. It's hard to really formulate it, especially that one. That's a complicated one. Super complicated. And also, as well, it's not just the complicatedness of it, the fact that the Middle east is so emotionally charged.

Konstantin Kisin
It's so emotionally charged and to the. Point that it makes it impossible to kind of have a rational discussion about it without people going, oh, you're being like this. You're being like this. Everybody's invested in it. And you go, you know, there's a very famous story during Northern Ireland, when they had the peace talks in Northern Ireland, where I think it was, Clinton came in and sat down with both sides.

Francis Foster
And these. These were people who had been at war, literal war. I mean, Northern Ireland was in a state of civil war. Call it the troubles, but that's essentially troubles. Yeah, that's essentially what it was.

And Clinton went, you know what? Before we get started, before you say anything, can we agree it's Wednesday? They're like, yes. And they were like, can we agree it's 1130? Yeah.

And can we agree that I'm drinking a cup of black coffee? They were like, yeah, okay. Okay. So we start from a point of agreement with that. Now let's see if we can navigate the rest and try and find a place where we can find some common ground.

And I think the challenges that we're faced in right now, we can't even agree what words mean. And if we can't even agree with what words mean, how are we gonna agree on something as difficult to solve as the Middle east and find a solution that not everybody is happy with that. Everybody's prepared to accept, because the reality is when you strike any deal, you. There needs to be a large dollop of pragmatism involved where you have to accept, I'm not gonna get everything I want, and I've got to accept what I am happy with what I can accept at that moment. And if you're not prepared to do that, and if you can't even agree on what words mean, and if you, in this kind of oppressor, oppressed mindset, how are you going to come to any kind of agreement or solution?

Konstantin Kisin
The way we have the conversation about it is not intended to find a solution. People aren't looking for a solution. People are looking to say, you know, what's happening is horrible, and it is horrible. I mean, who, like, this is the thing with social media is, you know, you spend two. Two minutes on your phone looking at what's going on, and you're like, fuck, you know, someone's got to do something.

Joe Rogan
Yeah, the ocean's boiling, but. But doing stuff is hard. Talking about shit is easy, right? Yeah. Gluing yourself to the wall of the museum is easy.

Konstantin Kisin
That's right. That's right. And so, yeah, and with this conflict, it's the same. I mean, I listened to Jared Kushner on Lexus podcast, and I thought he was very good about talking about a positive way forward. It's probably why he was able to pull off the Abraham Accords, which was a big step in that region.

Joe Rogan
Very, very smart guy. Very smart guy. He's very nice, too. I've met him. Very friendly.

Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. You see him on the media depictions of him during the Trump administration. It's like, oh, it's Damien from the omen. That's what it is. So evil.

Look at him. You ever seen that? Compare him to Damien. Like, there's a photo of him right next to Damien from the omen. Do you know the movie?

No, no, no. I haven't seen it. It's the devil's baby. All right. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
Lady gets pregnant by the devil, right? And Damien's the devil's baby. Damien's a very bad boy. And Damien looks exactly like it's David. I was keeping that Jamie.

Konstantin Kisin
I was very impressed with what he had to say. Brilliant guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can see why he was. And his whole thing is like, what's the positive vision for the future?

How do we get everybody what they need to stop being angry and fighting and killing each other? Yeah, but you can have as many fucking protest marches as you want. It's not gonna change anything. Yeah. And we saw that with Iraq.

I protested against the war in Iraq. I was on the street. But it just. It does add to the confusion that young people are experiencing.

Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's so similar. There's photos of him. There's like a side by side of him and Damien, there it is.

Joe Rogan
There it is. The window there. Well, there's one down there. That one. The one to the left right there.

Look at that.

I mean, if you didn't know him, you could. That's why it's so insidious with the medias cable of doing. Oh, man. So creepy that they do that and that they think that almost it's their obligation to do that. Right.

You know? Well, this is what I was saying about disagreeing with people. Like, I have heard from every single person that knows Tucker that he's a great guy. I still disagree with him on some things, but it doesn't mean he's not a great guy. Right.

Francis Foster
Yeah. And. But with the media, conversation is always about this person has the wrong opinion, therefore he's bad or she's bad. Yeah, and that's dumb. Someone can be really wrong and still be a really good person who's trying their best, and they may learn from their mistakes over time if they're doing things wrong.

Joe Rogan
Agreed. Agreed. You know? Yeah, man. So it's a.

Konstantin Kisin
It's a crazy world, but we're here. Yeah. Yeah. We're having fun. I mean, we're very fortunate.

Joe Rogan
We're very fortunate that this has come along during this time, but it's also part of the cause of this time. Yes. You know, but the fact that there is this newfound avenue to be able to express things and just, really just talk about whatever the fuck you want and not be confined by some organization that's telling you what to talk about and what you can't talk about and then censoring you if you disagree, firing you.

Francis Foster
And that's what we need. We need more conversation. And we need to start seeing people not as avatars who need to be destroyed, but actually as somebody else over the other side who has their own way of looking at things, has arrived at this point. Now, you may think it's wrong, you may think it's stupid, you may think all of these things, but it's still a human being. They've still got this point and sit them down and go, why?

Why is it? Because maybe here's the thing. Maybe by reaching your handout, you might be able not only to understand them a little bit better, you might actually be able to understand yourself a little bit better. And by seeing the blind spots in them, you go, what about my blind spots? What about the thing where I have, I don't actually.

I have an unconscious bias. I actually have a bias because of the way I was raised, because of the way I was brought up, because of what I seen growing up. And maybe actually, even though they might be wrong about this thing, I kind of get why they're saying this. And not only that, they might have a point about something else that I haven't thought about. And this is why the ethos of self improvement is so important.

Konstantin Kisin
100%. And why it also gets attached to right wing ideology. It's because you're taking responsibility. Right. And for some reason, some people want to make the right the only place that's about personal responsibility.

I don't think that's necessary. That's crazy. You can exercise and be left wing. Right wing, of course. You can take care of your family and be left wing.

And people have always done, and I. Think that the people that aren't interested in that, both on left wing and the right wing, have the most problematic views. The people that have no interest in self improvement, both on the right and on the left, they're the people that are the biggest problems. Yeah, yeah. It's.

Francis Foster
It's the people, the worst people are the people who are utterly entrenched in their views, and they think to themselves, you know what? I've got everything, right. I don't need to change. Why do I need to improve? Why do I need to, why do I need to change the way I think?

Because I am right. Yeah. Well, great. So what you've actually done is you've actually stunted your own growth, emotionally, physically, spiritually. Well, the good thing is, I think that becomes evident over time.

Joe Rogan
I think those people become exposed, and it becomes very clear what they're doing over time. And I think we're going through that right now. Yeah. Tumultuous, period. I think the economics of podcasting and new media is gonna, is gonna make more daily wire style organizations.

Konstantin Kisin
I think it's inevitable. People are gonna come together under one umbrella or in partnership or somehow, because it's like no one wants to give, no one wants to subscribe to their favorite 50 substacks, you know, no one wants to listen to their favorite, give $5 a month to their favorite 30 podcasts. Right. It's just not gonna happen. You're gonna want to come to one place where you've got, you know, Barry's doing it with the free press, for example.

She's bringing people together under her umbrella. That's a very good point, because if you have, like, ten podcasts you like, and it's $10 a month, okay, now it's getting a little pricey, and the. Admin alone is gonna kill you. Yeah, yeah, it's getting pricey, and then it's also. It's like you're gonna lose out on a lot of people that are interested in your stuff if you have to pay for it.

Joe Rogan
But if you can get a bunch of really good ones altogether, but then. You got an organization, and before you know it, new media will become old media. It will have the same corruption. It will have the same power structures, hierarchy. And power is prone to corruption, as we know from our good friend.

That's why I believe in organic networks. So what I try to do with my friends, with comedians, I instill this notion of we are on a network. It's an organic network. We have contracts with each other, but we're all friends, and we all support each other, so we help each other. So our reach is all grown together.

It's all tied in together. You know, if you listen to your mom's house, you probably listen to Joey Diaz, you probably listen to me. There's, like, a whole group of us, and you might like Duncan Moore or you might like Ari Moore, whatever it is. But there's. There's a whole group of people that are connected, that are essentially on the equivalent of the podcast version of NBC.

Konstantin Kisin
You know, that transition was so good for us, but also so hard, because coming from the UK comedy circuit, where. Which is where we started, it's the exact opposite of that. It was in America, too. Every man for himself. It was like.

And then when we started coming over here, it was like a whole new world was open to us. And now we are bringing that back to the UK. We are helping people out. We are like, oh, here's a talented new writer. Let's give her an opportunity.

Here's a talented new guy doing YouTube. Let's bring him in and give him a boost. We are kind of using that to try and create a community of people who are working together, not necessarily towards the same goal, but just like, people who are looking out for each other. And that's such a powerful transformation of the way you view the world, because suddenly everyone's your friend. Yeah.

Joe Rogan
And that's one of the best spent things that came out of the whole Internet revolution for comics is that we realized that we are not in competition, but that we can benefit from all the things that benefit you from being in competition with someone. You can be inspired, you can be forced to work harder and really raise your levels. But more importantly, we're in collaboration and that we're a tribe and that we all benefit from each other being around. And it's beautiful when your friends do well. And that philosophy was possible because the Internet, because before that, we were all competing for the same amount of jobs on television and late night talk shows, whatever it was.

And once that went away, then comedians became an asset, because, like, if I could get Tom Segura on my podcast, we're gonna have a lot of fun. And then his podcast will grow, and my podcast will grow, and everybody would be happy. And that helped us a lot. But it's also this mentality that we had at the comedy store that was different. It's like we were a tribe and we were supportive of each other.

Even before the podcast thing, where did that come from? Was it you that kind of led that, or was there someone else? Because it always comes from, like, someone being the inspiration, doesn't it? It was probably me because it came from martial arts, because that's how I think about martial. You have to have training partners.

You don't get good by yourself. You have to have training partners. The only way you get good at Jiu Jitsu, you have to roll with other people that are really good. You have to do it. You have to train together.

You have to realize high levels, the high levels around you. And if you have a gym that has a specifically, especially rather high level of Jiu JItsu, you're gonna get a lot of high level people that come out of that gym, and you'll see the difference. When they go to a lower level gym, they're just way better. Just like, you see a comic that works, you know, at the Cellar in NEw York, they go somewhere else. Like, that's a high level comic.

They're in. They're in a high pressure, high talent situation, and it benefits everybody. So my feelings from martial arts, I just transferred over to comedy. I was like, this is the best way to do it. I know it seems counterproductive.

You think, like, we're all, fuck him, I'm the man. Get rid of that. Get rid of that. Like, everybody can be good together. And when someone's good, it actually feels good to tell people that person's good and blow them up and help them.

If you can help you know, get some shine on, get some light on someone who's really talented. It's good for the art form, which is the whole reason why we got into it in the first place. And the more people that do it, the higher the level's gonna get. You're gonna get more people that rise to the top. It's more competition, more creativity, more influence, more excitement, more inspiration.

It's good for everybody, and it's good. For you as well, because. Because it's. When you have that mindset of, no, this is my thing. You're not going to touch my thing.

You know, it's a gross mindset. It's a gross mindset. And what gross mindsets do is they corrupt the individual. And this is what people don't talk about enough. If you have got a terrible mindset, okay, it's bad for everybody around you, and of course that's important.

Francis Foster
But the person it's worse for, it's you. Yes. It's cancerous. So if you have this mindset of, I'm not gonna help anybody, because what about me? You know what?

You're gonna end up on your own, and you're gonna end up being deeply. Deeply miserable, bitter and resentful. Hear, hear. Yeah. You know, I asked Jordan about this because his whole crew is like, it's.

Konstantin Kisin
It's. Everyone works together. It's a team game. We're all pulling in the same direction. And I said to him, how did you like?

And he goes, I realized very early on, the right amount of drama to have on a tour is zero. Zero drama. Yeah. If you're a drama guy, you don't. You're not gonna work here.

Well, you know, and it's not an angry thing. It's a practical thing. We're all working towards the same thing. I'm trying to make you better. You're trying to make me better.

I mean, the guy literally invited someone over from another country to argue with him on stage in front of his own audience. And it works. Yeah. And that's what high quality leadership looks like. And what you're talking about, what Jordan's talking about, it's.

And coming here, man, and talking to people like you and others, it's been just revolutionary for us in the way we think about everything. That's beautiful. That's. That mindset is everything. Yeah, it is.

Joe Rogan
And it's good for you. Like you said, it's good for you, too. Yeah. It's good for everybody. It's good for me.

It's important for me when people I benefit when people do well. It really does. It really does. It helps me. Totally.

Francis Foster
Yeah. Because it challenges you. And that's what I love about the Austin comedy scene, is that when you come here, people are so much more open. You know, you don't get that in a lot of other comedy scenes where people are, you know, that they, you know, people. It's, you know, people do help each other.

Of course they do. But there's still this crabs in a bucket mentality, whereas you come here and people are just far more open. They go, come and do ten minutes at my club. Come here. Oh, you're great.

Come and do this. Come and do that. That collaborative process is how everybody wins. Yeah. It's how everybody gets better.

It's how we all become better at what we want to do. Because the reality is if you're denying someone the chance for them to flower and flourish, you're denying something of yourself as well. Indeed. Because later on, that person will be like, that guy helped me. Yeah.

You know, hey, why don't you come and do this thing, you know? Do you remember you did this for me? Well, what would. And then, bam. And then you've both won, and then you've both created thing, something.

Joe Rogan
Yeah. And it's just a positivity, which is why I love coming here. I love coming here because there's a positivity here that there's a can do attitude of, we can go out and we can do this and we're going to work together and we're going to collaborate, and we're going to change things and we're going to improve. I come here and I just feel so much more creatively energized. All of these past, like, ten days, I've been in Austin most of the time, apart from going out and meeting people, I just spend all my day writing.

Francis Foster
I spend all my day writing because I'm going, oh, I've got all these gigs I can test it out on, and I feel energized and I feel creative, and I know that I can do this, and yet I know if I fail, like, I did one particular gig for Hans Kim, bless him, I did too much new. It didn't go well. I came out going, oh, I know that I'm not gonna get limited because I didn't do well at that gig, but I came away knowing that I've got so much to improve, and I know how to improve it. And then I went and did another gig, and it was great. Yeah, you gotta be able to take chances.

Joe Rogan
That's. It's a very important thing. And people have to know what. What you're capable of. And when you're starting off with new stuff or you're trying new stuff out, some of it goes terrible.

That's just part of the process. And everyone here knows that they get it. I mean, we had the benefit of not being attached to Hollywood, too. That was one of the best things. Like, new York is not really attached to Hollywood either.

But there's still, like, the Hollywood adjacent. You know, you can get gigs and there's obviously, you know, there's talk shows that are there still. Letterman was always there, but with California, you're just so infected by the Hollywood bullshit. And here it's none of it's non existent that. So you get to exist in a purely creative environment in that the comedians are just trying to be better at comedy.

That's it. This thing. Not just try to audition for a television show. Trying to be better at comedy, bro. When I went to LA for the first time, I spent three days there.

Konstantin Kisin
And I told you I'm not a religious person. After three days, I got on the plane and I was like, these people need God. Satan. Yeah. Fuck me.

Joe Rogan
Gentlemen. Death to America. Not really settled down. All right. Appreciate you guys very much.

Trigonometry available everywhere. And then you have. There's a substack. So how does it work, the substack? It's just Constantin, kiss and substack.

Konstantin Kisin
Had to read the shit. All right. And do you guys have some of your episodes are available behind a subscription wall? Is that how it is? So what we do is we do usually about 20 minutes to half an hour bonus content with questions from our audience for the guest.

And that goes behind a paywall. Oh, that's cool. And there's some pretty cool stuff there. That's a good way to do it. Questions from the audience.

Francis Foster
Yes. That's smart. Oh, yeah. We tell people who's coming on in advance, and then they send in a bunch of questions. We're like, what's most upvoted?

Konstantin Kisin
What's the most interesting? What's the funniest? And we do that, and it goes on. Our locals is 2030 minutes extra content for every guest. Beautiful.

It's pretty cool. And the interesting thing is you look at the questions, you go, damn, some of them are better than mine. Well, got a crowdsource. Yeah, you do. Thank you, gentlemen.

Joe Rogan
Really appreciate you. It was a lot of fun. Thanks for having me. All right, bye, everybody.

Konstantin Kisin
All right, bye, everybody.

Joe Rogan
All right, bye, everybody.

#2140 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

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1. Introduction

2. Societal Observations

3. Role of Technology

4. Freedom and Censorship

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