#165 Jillian Broadbent: Charting new paths as Board Director in Public & Private sector at Macquarie Bank, Qantas, Woolworths, CEFC & more!

Vidi Tagawal
What if we could reimagine the traditional notion of a high flyer? Hey friends, welcome back. Or welcome to the High Flyers podcast where we do reimagine a high flyer showcase the brightest and most relatable role models and companies and their journey from sunrise to today as one of the premier products in our Curiosity centre lineup, providing on demand intelligence featuring olympic athletes, business and cultural leaders, students, journalists, investors, founders and more from around the world to help you be 1% better every single day. I'm your host, Vidi Tagawal and let's have some fun. Thanks to you, this podcast continues to rank in the global top ten podcasts by both Spotify and Apple podcasts for the past two years running.

And we hope you're enjoying our catalog of 150 episodes featuring guests from twelve countries across nearly 30 industries. Before we get to today's episode, I want to share some news just with you. We've recently partnered up with our friends at KPMG across our suite of products at the Curiosity center and I'm excited to share applications are now open to pitch big breakthrough ideas at KPMG's 2024 global Tech Innovator competition. The annual competition run by KPMG High Growth Ventures brings the best in market together to compete for an amazing prize. A fully funded trip that's right, a fully funded trip to take your idea to the world stage at Lisbon's Web summit.

Sapia AI took out the trophy last year and if I was building a high growth tech startup, I'd jump on this opportunity. So the link is in our show notes to apply today. My guest this week is Gillian Broadbent in this episode 165 wow. What an incredible lady and human. And this might be the first time she's shared her story in such depth.

Jillian Broadbent is one of the leading business and industry minds with extensive investment banking industry knowledge and markets expertise and deep knowledge the risk management and regulation. She has served on the boards of many organizations across finance, the arts, non for profit and more. She is currently a member of the board of directors of Macquarie Group and previously was a board member at Coca Cola, Qantas, Woolworths and the Reserve bank of Australia. She was also the chancellor of the University of Wollongong for eleven years up until late 2020 and in 2019 she was made a Companion of the Order of Australia for her contribution to corporate financial, clean energy, higher education and females in business. In this conversation, learn about her sunrise, her childhood, being the youngest of three siblings, and the influence of her parents, dad and solicitor and mum who studied agricultural science and social work.

Key highlights that I enjoyed asking her in this conversation include her starting professional work at age 19 at the Reserve bank and treading a new path as a female during a time in the seventies when it wasnt commonplace. Her reflections on her 22 years at Bankers Trust where she also met her husband. Listen in to hear that story. Her transition from an executive to a board member with Woodside being her first board, her reflections on helping her kids with their studies and her parenting style and we unpack various aspects of her very successful board career including biggest transition she had to make from an executive to a non executive. Reflections on her time being on the board of Qantas when it was government owned and she was in a full time executive role, being a female in a boardroom ingredient to be a successful board member.

Important crucible moment in her career when she was chair of the CEFC, the Clean Energy Finance Corporation and she was working with the change of government and climate politics and why it's important to bring humour to a board meeting. Fun fact, the australian government gave special permission for Jillian to be on the board of the Reserve bank of Australia for a third term. I really enjoyed unpacking Jillian the human being as well, how shes an adventurer and the trip shes been on dealing with disappointment and stress, learnings from her late friend Kala Zempati, learnings from Shimara, the inspiring CEO of Macquarie Group and Gillian's philosophy in life do not carry baggage as in do not hold on to grudges. Its now time to explore your curiosity. Please enjoy.

Gillian Broadbent, welcome to the show. Thank you, Vidis, I'm pleased to have you on. A lot of mutual friends have spoken very highly of you and I think you recognize a lot of our previous guests, so this should be really interesting. Why don't we start with our fun facts. Where were you born and where do you live now?

Gillian Broadbent
I was born in Sydney and I live in Sydney. I was born on the north shore and I live in the eastern suburbs. Have you lived overseas at any point? I have. I've lived in Canada and in Bolivia, in South America.

Vidi Tagawal
Oh wow, I didn't know that. We will talk about that shortly. And from a work perspective, what was your first job and what do you do now? My first job once I graduated was at the Reserve bank and they were building an econometric model and that was a novelty at the time and I'd graduated in maths and economics so there weren't very many people who could, who were eligible for this role. I think that's why I got it, not because I was so outstanding.

And how would you describe your work now? My work now? As a non executive director? Yeah. How would you describe the various things you do?

I know you've got a lot of different roles. How do you describe. Oh, well, I mean, I'm on the board of Macquarie bank, which is a very stimulating, growing financial institution that just does so many different things. And then my other involvements are not for profit, which the Sydney Dance Company, which I love, the portrait gallery, where I'm now on the foundation, having stepped down from the board. So most of those involvements are not for profit, just consistent with art forms I'm interested in.

And Gillian, as you know, the purpose of this show is to reimagine a high flyer. Is there a high flyer, you know, who you feel hasn't got the recognition they deserve? I suspect there are so many high flyers who haven't got the recognition they deserve because recognition is often if you're in a public role or if you're in an organization where you just have profile or you're asked to speak publicly. I mean, the medical profession is an area where they really don't get any public profile because often they're dealing with more intimate challenges and more specific challenges and not in the public arena. That is true.

My partner, she's a doctor and I think people like that should definitely get more recognition. Let's wind back the clock, Gillian, and go back to your sunrise, your childhood, what are your memories of the environment you grew up in? Well, it was, when we think of all the social media, it was much more slower moving and I think wholesome in so many ways compared to these days. I feel like, you know, people who live in the country come to the city and I've always lived in the city, well, the urbanized area, and yet it's. It was.

Gillian Broadbent
I think it was much safer than it is now. Yeah. And, and I think you were one of three siblings, is that right? You're the youngest? Yes, I was the youngest, yeah.

Vidi Tagawal
What was that like growing up in? Were your two sisters quite protective? Yes, very protective. Nice being the youngest because they are very protective of you and you grow up feeling as though you were in an environment that's protected. Yeah.

And tell me about your parents. What influence did they have on you growing up? Well, they were both well educated in the sense that they both graduated from university. So there was always a lot of discussion about politics, books. I mean, I think it was a fairly stimulatory environment to grow up in and always a lot of disagreement.

And was that quite unique amongst your friends? Did your friends also have. Look, I think so. You don't really think it's unique. But then when I think of my mum and dad would vote differently and then argue about what, why you're voting one way or the other.

Gillian Broadbent
So I think that was different because so many families, you know, they vote this way and everyone else goes along, they don't stand there challenging. Let's say you're going to change your vote. And what did your parents do for work? My dad was a solicitor and my mum, she graduated in agricultural science and then she went back and did a degree in social work. Oh, wow.

Vidi Tagawal
Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So you saw both parents working as you were growing up? Yes, mum was working more part time, but they were both working.

Gillian Broadbent
They weren't working like these days you have two parents working and you depended on the childcare system and the nanny and, you know, it wasn't that intense. I mean, we were, she was home with us a lot of the time. So you put me in touch with the number of people leading up to this and they all said you have this ability to just pack so much in your day. You're very energetic and you just managed to do everything and you're very optimistic. Were you like that as a child as well?

Vidi Tagawal
How would your high school teachers describe your personality? I suspect I was optimistic. I don't know that I was packing too much into my day because the days were much more slow moving in those days than they are now. But I think what helps me pack things into the day is if you're working very long hours and you want to pursue other areas, then you've got to pack into the day. I can remember my son saying that my farewell from Bankers Trust, something like mum's idea of relaxing, is running out and playing tennis or something.

Gillian Broadbent
So I think he's right, you know, I'm pack something. I'm not a lounge lizard, I don't think. Yeah, that's incredible. I will ask you that later on about your routines and habits. I think a lot of people are curious how you managed to maintain this energy that you've got that people half your age can't maintain.

Vidi Tagawal
So I want to talk about shortly and when you think about the age of 18 because I feel like 18 is a stage where you've got some understanding of self and some understanding of the world. What did you want to do with life at that age? I always wanted to use my skills but I did and develop my skills and I didn't really know what they were come into either a university education or even a job, thinking I want to be something. There was no goal, but I did want to be with people I found intellectually stimulating and I did want to draw on the development of my own skills to contribute to that. So where did you start after high school?

What was the first thing you did after high school? I went to university. Yep. And then I went to work at the Reserve bank as my first job. William, and you were 19, I believe, is what I saw online is when you started.

Gillian Broadbent
That's right. Well, in those days we only had five years of high school, so. And I was sort of the youngest in my class. Not because of. Not because I was any sort of genius.

Under accelerated learning. I think my mum wanted to go to work and so I got sent off to kindergarten. I think it was that. And tell me about the story. I've heard a story that your mum sent you to a friend who was a guidance counselor and she recommended you should do economics.

Vidi Tagawal
Is that true? Yes, and I think that's really rather fortunate because too often it's understanding what the choices are of what career, what further tertiary education you undertake. And especially for females at that time, it wasn't quite as though the world's your oyster. I mean, it was very much, you know, well, you could be a teacher or a nurse and I don't know that too much else was mentioned as a possibility. And so my mum said, look, go and see this friend of hers who is a vocational guidance person out of Sydney University and she might have gone through university with mum, or mum mua from somewhere.

So what was it like starting at the Reserve bank at that point? So you said you were one of the only handful of females, I assume, or perhaps the only female. You were 19. It was a different world. Australia was a different economy at that point.

Give us a picture. What was it like working at the Reserve bank in that period? Well, the Reserve bank, we were a bit of a unique team who'd been brought in to build this econometric model and there was a reasonable gender balance in that team. When I say reasonable, it might have been 20%. Sure.

Gillian Broadbent
I mean, that probably wasn't all that reasonable, but maybe when I was doing economics it might have been 10% who were women and in maths it'd probably be 5%. So I was doing courses, oblivious to the fact that when I chose them that I'd be such a minority in terms of my gender. And was that something that, to your point earlier where that was the norm was now, that is odd. Did that strike you as different at the time or did you just play along and go, this is just how it is, and you've got to figure out what your identity is in that? I think the latter, you know, I just went along and this is what I wanted to do and that's what, that's the way it was.

Vidi Tagawal
And how long were you at the Reserve bank for your first stint? Because you've had a few stints, right? Yeah, well, I was at the Reserve bank for two years before I went overseas. They arranged for me to work on an econometric model in Canada, but. And then I really only came back to the Reserve bank when I was 50 to be on the board, so I didn't have, you know, I was with them for two years and then I went over to work on these various models that they were liaising with the bank of Canada on their model.

Yeah. Right. Sort of sharing intellectual property on what they developed and how they were approaching it. Right. And when was this?

If we just timestamp it, what year was this in? Was this in the eighties? Seventies. Oh, seven. Seventies, I suppose, yeah.

Oh, wow. That is, yeah, because Australia as an economy, if we just talk about that for a second. Was it a very different economy? Right. Well, it had a very high tariff system and a fixed exchange rate and fixed interest rates.

Gillian Broadbent
So the reason why I went to Canada was to work on their econometric model because they'd had a period where they floated the exchange rate and then they went back to having it fixed again. So that was a very interesting exercise to model and to see what the economy did under those two regimes. And then you came back to Australia for your role. And I came back to Australia and I. Well, the reserve, I think I was maybe I was 25 and I couldn't go back to the Reserve Bank.

I could have applied again. And they said, look, if you apply, we'll take you in. I thought, look, I probably should leave the Reserve bank and go and do something else, because I think, I thought at the time I'd go back overseas. And then my mum pointed out this job in the newspaper. I think she was probably keen to keep me here.

And so then I applied for this job and I got it and it was with a small merchant bank who was wanting an economists because there was, with everything in those days being a fixed exchange rate and quite a lot of rigidity, and it was a more controlled economy. Than market directed. So it wasn't the same appetite to try and understand the economy because you felt as though nothing was going to happen without you knowing about it. The government had been announcing what was happening. We're going to increase interest rates or we're going to.

There's nothing moving. And bond rates were set by the government, so that the whole dynamic was not very well understood by a lot of people in the finance market. So they thought being an economist and having worked in Australia and other countries would be quite valuable to them. And were you the type of person who set a career plan? Did you have a 510 year plan?

No, I never had a. I didn't even have a two year plan. Yeah, right. So how did you decide on your next role, then? So your mum said, stay in Australia, here's a job ad.

Vidi Tagawal
Did you apply and then go through the interview process? Yes, I applied and went through the interview process and I used to laugh when we had a reunion with the two, with the guys I worked with, and they said, you were the only person who applied for a job. We only got a job because we. My dad worked there or my uncle worked there, or, you know, I said, well, I was probably the only applicant. That's how I got the job.

Gillian Broadbent
We used to laugh about how you end up in the finance sector at that stage was very much an old boy's neck. So you joined the bank and it was called Bankers Trust. Was that the bank? Oh, no, that was. This small merchant bank actually went into, not quite liquidation, but I suppose it was like liquidation, it was under an administrator and we were all asked to stay on because there were a number of foreign banks who wanted to buy the entity and we were a subsidiary of the entity that had been having financial problems, although our little group wasn't having financial problems, so we thought we were going to be sold.

So we were hanging around waiting to be sold, and I said, I don't think I want to wait around to do this. I'm going to travel. And then I traveled, and then I decided I didn't want to go back and be sold in that entity. So that was when I followed up with Bankers Trust, who said, look, we'd like to employ you, but. And then I was going traveling, so I didn't get employed by them, only that when I was traveling, I thought, I think I could travel a bit more if I knew I had a job I was coming back to.

Vidi Tagawal
Interesting. I came across an interesting anecdote that I think you quoted an article a while back saying, that at BT, everyone was on the why and the way you were always challenging. I never felt an irritant at BT. Unpack that. So it sounds like you were allowed, or the culture allowed you to question and be curious.

Is that right? Well, definitely. So, I mean, they were a very small financial organization. I don't even know if they'd ever made a profit. They were sort of struggling, as were a lot of financial entities who didn't have a banking license because we didn't have a banking license when we started and we had to, I suppose there were 70 people when I joined and there might have been 3000 when I left.

Gillian Broadbent
And it was not making a profit at all. And then when I left, it might have been heading towards half a billion. So it was quite a journey to go on where you had nothing going for you, basically. So we had to say, well, what can we provide to the market where we think we can differentiate ourselves? And that was quite exciting to develop, you know, some offering some financial service that you could provide.

Vidi Tagawal
And were you also an economist in that role as well? No, I was an economist. And then I went on to. I probably was calling on if I go back to. Before I joined BT, I'd moved into being a.

Gillian Broadbent
A money market dealer because the economist role was just enhancing you being in the markets and talking to clients. But when I went to BT, it was really on as an economist and as us involved in the strategy with the then CEO. So I was working with the CEO to guide him on strategy. And that's really determining the landscape of the financial markets, what deregulations taking place, if there's going to be the exchange rate moving or floating or, you know, so it was a bit more of an economist strategist when I joined BT. So it sounds like quite early in your career, this is 510 years into your career, you were doing some pretty big strategy roles, working with the leadership.

Vidi Tagawal
When you reflect on that now, what do you think allowed you to stand out and separate yourself beyond gender? Well, I think one of the good things about BT is that because they had no real business, they weren't discriminating on whether you're male or female. They didn't have enough of a body to reject people. You know, like, we're all like this. They were just trying to get talent and trying to work out within this rigid landscape, how do we develop a financial service business?

Gillian Broadbent
So they were open to input in any form. And I think having had the experience with the central bank, I had a reasonable macroeconomic understanding and framework to develop strategy for a financial institution. So interesting. And what kind of work would you do in that? For someone like me who I followed the financial markets, but I would have no idea what an economist does day to day or a strategist does day to day.

Vidi Tagawal
Give us an insight. What would an average week look like in that role? What sort of work would you do? Well, it might be one of the pieces of work after I've been there a while was should we and will we apply for a banking licence and how do we go about it? But prior to that, which where we'd already got some momentum and credentials to apply for a banking license, it might have been should we take over an official dealing licence?

Gillian Broadbent
Because in the financial structure there were licensed banks and then there were these licensed financial organizations who dealt in bonds and we thought, should we buy one of those if we can't? So I guess. And should we apply for a seat on the futures exchange and those sorts of major issues? I mean, most financial institutions come with all of that in place, whereas if you're starting off saying what do we do? I mean, the futures market is expanding to financial instruments.

Should we apply for a seat on it and how would we develop that as a profitable business? It very much sounds like a startup. We talk a lot about startups today. It probably was a financial startup. Really?

Vidi Tagawal
Yeah, yeah. Which I think back in the day was called a small business. Right. Because now people call it a startup. So yes, it didn't seem like a small business because your parent was quite large, but you were a small business in that you had to respond to what, not what the parent was doing and importing it.

Gillian Broadbent
You had to tailor the financial services you were going to build your business on in the australian market. Right. How long were you at BT for? All up? 22 years.

Vidi Tagawal
Oh, wow. 22 years. So you must have moved around quite a bit in those 22 years doing different roles, I imagine. Do you still follow the finance market now many years later? Because I'm on the board of Macquarie bank and I've.

As a, as a hobby, do you follow the markets and the economics? It's hard not to follow it. I don't know about as a hobby, but I've just got a natural fascination with what's happening in financial markets and the way the economy works and what fiscal policies are being developed and why they'd be effective. You'd make a very interesting dinner table companion. I feel in today's world where there's so much curiosity about interest rates and the economy and macroeconomic climate?

Do you get asked those questions often when you catch up with folks? I don't think that would be a very interesting dinner party for me personally, but I suppose there is an appetite, even from non financial people, to understand whats happening in the interest rate market. Thats true. William, did that play out? This is just my curiosity, I guess.

Did that play out in your own financial ability when you were going through your career because you had such a good grasp for the markets around how youd spent your own money or the investments you made or the assets you had, did that translate across into your personal life as well? A little bit, but my husband was responsible for the funds management business at bankers Trust, so I tended to not be too involved in, I mean, I had my own assets, and I still do, but I wouldn't say I was a mad trader of financial assets. But I think I do make informed decisions. I mean, I'm not readily persuaded to do something with my money if I don't think it hangs together. So I've got a capacity to analyze some proposals.

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So it sounds like you met your husband at BT, is that right? Yeah, right. And how did that go from being, if you're comfortable talking, going from being acquaintances to a couple, give us the story there.

Gillian Broadbent
Well, I think we were both pretty dedicated to our areas of business. And so I can remember when we recruited a fellow who'd been up to see the funds management. So I'd been up to see my husband, and he came down and he said, oh. So he said, look, I'm going to set up this business. What could we do with your area?

And I said, oh, you could do this, you could do that, we could help you with this. And he said, oh, this is a much better conversation. I've just been come down from seeing the head of funds management, and he didn't want to know about anything I was doing. I thought, actually, that's the personality of the individual. You know, he's less interested in thinking broadly about how do we all get along and do things.

I mean, he's far more individual and focused than I am. Probably this fellow didn't know we were married. So you see, did you not tell the colleagues internally that you were together? Of course. He was a new recruit.

He didn't know. So it wasn't as though we were reminded of it very often. Yeah, right. I think because we both were so different in style and independent thinking, nobody was would even have noticed we were. It wasn't as though, oh, I agree with him.

We're just, I think, conducted ourselves very independently in that professional environment. I'm curious, Julian, we'll jump around a bit here, but how have you, and is it olive, your husband, right? Yes. How have you helped each other grow? Like, because you both have had careers at the same time and then gone different parts where you've got this board career.

Vidi Tagawal
Now that we'll talk about, how have you helped each other grow over the years? Well, I think we have helped each other grow because we were a sounding board in common areas of interest of financial markets and macro policy. And it helps if you both have an interest and your work is in a sector that you have in common and you each value each other's opinion. So I think, and I think he was always very supportive of me. So that makes a big difference in someone who knows your skills and respects your contribution.

Gillian Broadbent
Theyre naturally supportive emotionally and even in discussion. William and then when you were towards the end of your time at BT, how were you thinking about the next step in your career? Because as you said, you were there for over 20 years and you probably would have built this set of experiences where you were in demand, where companies would have wanted you to work for them, right. Well, I wasnt conscious of that, but the government said, you know, would you consider going on the board of the Reserve bank? And I said, oh, well, can I do my job part time?

And they said, no, you'll have to resign from your job. And I thought, oh. And then I thought, well, I actually had quite a passion for the Reserve bank, not just for the policy and the area of monetary policy generally, but I really had an emotional attachment to the Reserve bank. And I thought, oh, I should do this. So if I'm going to do this, it's probably a good time to stop doing what I was doing, part time.

Vidi Tagawal
Board director role at the. Yes. So I left, if you like, well paid executive position and went on to the board of the reserve bank. And I don't know that I thought too much more than, well, that'll be so interesting because I love that. I love monetary policy.

Yeah. And that, I believe was 1998. If I've got my numbers right, 25 years later, do you have any reflections on that decision? Would you do it differently if you had a chance again, no. When I think back, I feel incredibly appreciative of the opportunities I've had to work with a huge range of companies because I'd been working with a lot of companies when I was with bankers trust, helping them with their risk management policies.

Gillian Broadbent
Then some of them reached out and said, would you know, you've gone on the Reserve bank board, would you join our board? And so I was lucky enough to have a lot of opportunities to think about those companies. And some of them I said yes. And some of them I said no. But I had some choices.

Vidi Tagawal
Back to the episode in a moment. If you're new to the High Flyers podcast and enjoying this episode with Gillian Broadbent, you might enjoy episode 152 with Holly Kramer, board director at Woolworths, ANZ and Fonterra, and mentioned in this episode or episode 148 with Martine Wilder, the founder of Pollination, the chair of the National Reconstruction Fund and a former board member of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, the cEFT that Gillian talks about when she was chair and access all 160 plus episodes@thehighfliespodcast.com. That's thehighflyerspodcast.com. Now back to the episode. And I believe the first one, the first board you joined was Woodside.

Was that pre Reserve bank or after Reserve bank? No, it was, I don't think at the time that they appointed me, they knew I was going on the Reserve bank board because the Reserve bank board was very, you had to wait for the approval of the governor general. And it was all kept very secretive until it's announced. So I guess when they asked would I think about going on this board, I thought that actually could work quite well because I'm stopping my executive career. And so that made you a full time board director, the Woodside role?

Gillian Broadbent
Well, no, that was another part time director. You know, you're a non executive director of Woodside and I was a non executive director of the Reserve bank. So I suppose in a sense, then I started to, or people saw that I was doing that. And so you could do join our board. So, and how did you feel your week going there?

Vidi Tagawal
Because as we said at the start, is like you, you like keeping yourself busy. So you went from a full time executive role to a part time role. So I'm assuming you had some spare days in between that. I don't remember having too many spare days. I don't think I ever have spare days.

Gillian Broadbent
How I filled in the time, I don't know. I started to get a bit closer to the fact that my son was doing his HSC and I really didn't have, I hardly even knew the subjects he was doing. I mean, I was very, I certainly wasn't a helicopter parent. I mean, if they were struggling with something, they'd come and ask you. But I just assumed they'd just do all right.

I mean, and they did do well, but they weren't each ducks of their class or something, and I was never expecting them to be so we. I guess I just assumed they'd do well, not. So I didn't think they needed me and I didn't have the time to dive into what they'd done, their homework, or where they were. So I did dive in a bit to my son and his HSC to determine that. That he wasn't even going to pass maths.

I mean, I thought, this is so bad. So we went on this intensive. Oh. So I thought, what have I been doing to not recognize he was so weak in this area? And then we went on some intensive.

I was reading the textbook and making him do exams, and when he went to the final exam, he said, oh, we got one of these and we got one of those. And I said, oh, I keep thinking, you mean you and I got one of these. He said, I do. So, you know, then he got in, in his top 10% in the state. So he.

He went from a pretty low level to a reasonable level in a very short, intense time. So that did take some of my time. I'm just sobering thought of realizing he wasn't really up to this. I mean, he had the capacity, he just wasn't doing it. That's so interesting.

Vidi Tagawal
And that reminds me of something you said at the start of this conversation about the environment your parents created, right around sitting and talking at the dinner table and having a voice. Was that something you consciously tried to do with your own kids? I think I tried to do, but it's naturally what you do because you, you know, you're used to that. Yeah. Because also what came up in my research is you only took a few months off when you had your first child, Tim, and then only a few months off when you had Laura, is that right?

Gillian Broadbent
Yes, I think I took six months off with Tim and maybe two months off with Laura. And this was when you were at BT, right? Yes. Yeah. That's incredible, because I think even now, I think parental leave and things have become commonplace.

Vidi Tagawal
But I'm sure back then, well, they. Didn'T have any parental leave. I had to. I had to persuade them to give me leave without pay and to keep my job for me. And I was coming back to this new area I was developing, so they were a bit dependent on me, otherwise they would have said, look, no, you're off.

Gillian Broadbent
There was no recognition that there's a benefit in bringing women back from maternity. I mean, there wasn't maternity leave, it was just leave. And is that something you stood up for when you did? You try to get a policy around? Well, I didn't stand up to say I should be able to come back and have my job.

And some years later, people criticized me for not driving a hard enough bargain. You know, why didn't I ask for leave with pay? And why didn't I? And I thought I was flat out getting leave, you know, and coming back. It wasn't that easy to.

Vidi Tagawal
Yeah, I think hindsight's a beautiful thing, right? You can see things in it, you. Know, it wasn't as though I was just, oh, yes, don't worry about paying me. Don't worry. I was really quite pleased to be able to come back.

Let's go into the next phase of your career, the board career, which you're still doing now. As you said, I'm curious about the transition. I've heard you talk in other interviews about that board directors, it can be hard because in the executive role, you've got execution ability and you're driving the car, so to speak. But as a board member, you're coaching or observing or guiding. Talk about that transition in the early two thousands with the Reserve bank and then Woodside, and then you've done many other.

What's the biggest transition you had to make from an executive to a non executive? I think the most challenging one for me. I was on the board of Qantas. This was when it was government owned, and I was still working as a full time executive. So I probably found it extremely frustrating that they.

Gillian Broadbent
Well, they were probably didn't have a very active structure. They had a structured board, but not with the governance that a public company has now. And I was trying to persuade them to not lock into fixed rate leases on a whole fleet of aircraft. I couldn't believe they were thinking about locking in fixed rate interest rates on these leases for 30 years, for 15%. And I was trying to say, but on the funds management business, we're investing in fixed rate, fixed interest rate assets.

We shouldn't be borrowing fixed rate for 30 years. It's a very expensive exercise. And I just became aware of the frustration of, how do you make this happen when usually you just make it happen? I mean, it was very sobering to realize I first had to convince all the people around the board table to not approve this. And the chairman said, well, I think we've discussed that enough.

And I said, oh, can we just defer it? And can I take it offline? Because I thought, I can't believe this. I'm watching death, financial death, under my watch. It was very frustrating.

But I remember going to the chair of Bankers Trust, David Hoare, at the time, and I said, I think I've just got to resign. This is just so crazy. I don't know how to tell them, this is a death warrant. We are signing a death warrant for the airline. And he said, well, you only resign once.

That's a very weak approach. You've got to keep fighting. You know, in a way, it was quite good advice, because I thought, I suppose so. But that was almost as though you either resigning is all you can do when you can't get anywhere. And I thought, well, I've just got to present the case.

I've got to do a paper on it, I've got to circulate it around. And I did that, and I had the right result in that they had the leases on a floating rate basis. How did you learn how to communicate in a boardroom? Like you mentioned, you worked at different companies in your executive role, but I imagine the board role, the style of communication and the information is different. How did you pick that up?

Vidi Tagawal
In hindsight, I don't think that's much. Different from any communication in a cooperative group of people who are working together. But it was a little bit more difficult, I think, being female, because the natural communication was, gentlemen, we will now open the meeting. And gentlemen, we will. And I said, and lady.

Gillian Broadbent
And then I'd say, and lady? And they'd go, oh, you know, it was sort of funny, but not that funny, because you thought, I am here and I'm trying to do a job, and then I sort of feel like I'm being excluded. But it's very much the norm. Starting the meeting with gentlemen, we should move on to agenda item one, or. Something that I'd imagine that'd be very taxing on you mentally.

Vidi Tagawal
Like, was that something that was always playing on your mind, that you've got to prove yourself? I don't know that I felt that. I just thought, you know, it's a bit like maybe I always felt I had to prove myself, but I don't remember feeling it intensely. I think we were growing up, we were always supposed to prove ourselves, not for anything, any great punishment, but just, you must do a good job. Yeah, well, I'd say everyone feels that sense of imposter syndrome, right, where you want to prove yourself and you sort of have that high school teacher in your brain.

Telling you're not good enough. So I think we've all been through that at some point in our lives. Yes. Or even trying to think, why can't I convince them? Even although you don't have executive power when you're a non executive director, but you certainly have influence and it's up to you to be able to convince your colleagues and the executive of the merit of what you think they should be doing.

Let's talk about Gillian, about the components of a successful board career. So we've had other guests like Holly Kramer, and she's been on a number of boards with you and other sins and others you worked with. And I think a lot of people aspire to get to the companies you've been on the boards of, whether it's Woolworths, Coca Cola, Macquarie. You mentioned Qantas Reserve bank, and I know a lot of people come to you for advice. Let's assume I was a corporate executive and I'd had 20 years of experience and I was thinking about the transition to a board role and people talk about a portfolio career and all this stuff.

When you think of successful board members, what are those ingredients that they have that makes them successful board members? Well, I think there are similar characteristics. If you've been a successful executive in the field, then you're at least eligible to be successful on a board. But I do think requiring some specific knowledge of the industry or the sector. One of the advantages of being in banking is that you had a glimpse into so many different sectors, especially in the risk management area where I was, where you had a lot of mining companies who had commodity price risk, foreign exchange risk, interest rate risk, because they had a lot of capital projects.

Gillian Broadbent
So I think I probably had a bit of a glimpse of a broader spectrum of companies than some had. And the same with lawyers and accountants. They also have an experience because their clients have been from a range of backgrounds. But it's one thing to be an advisor and another thing to be actually stepping into the shoes of the company, making those decisions. But a lot of the invitations I had to join boards came from the not for profit boards I'd been on, surprisingly.

Vidi Tagawal
Did you ever think about going back into an executive career? I'm sure people would have approached you saying, Julian, hey, come back and be a c suite member of the corporate team. Did you think about that in the. I don't know that they did approach me to go back and do that, but it wasn't something I even thought about and probably because the whole employment market and headhunters is far more developed now than it might have been 25 years ago. So in that sense, people didn't, they actually didn't use headhunters as much as they do now.

Gillian Broadbent
And whatever it was, I had more proposals to join other boards. And once I decided to be on the Reserve bank board and the Woodside board, I really enjoyed both of those appointments. And I don't think I could have fitted in an executive career. But I think it was the Reserve bank that was the trigger to. Well, I had to break from a finance organization to join the Reserve bank board.

And once I'd done that, then the only other executive role would have been in another financial organization. And I do understand the government gave you special permission, right, to be in the Reserve bank for a third term, which people might not know about. Yes, that was. I felt very honoured to be offered. That possibility, which probably is a reflection of the contribution you made through your intellectual.

Well, we hope so. But I was on in the second term at the Reserve bank board, we had the global financial crisis, and that was really very much driven by derivative transactions running off the rails. And so I think my understanding of that derivative market was probably quite valuable in that environment, because by the time you had the collapse of Lehman Brothers and all of the hot points were coming from derivative transactions. We talk a lot about crucible moments on the podcast, and I feel like your time at the CEFC perhaps was that crucible moment that would have taught you a lot about dealing with different personalities and had a very interesting time for the country. And mate Wilder has been on the show in the past who I know was on the board with you at the CEFC.

Vidi Tagawal
Tell me about your reflections of what he described as a very difficult time where the government threatened to sue and you had to get insurance, and the government said, don't make any more investments. But everyone said to me that you were very steadfast and you were very optimistic and you were able to ride the ship really well. What are your reflections of that time at the CEFC? Well, if I'd thought about when I took on the role, I knew it was going to be challenging because we all felt there was going to be a change of government once we were in existence. So we had twelve months to prove up the model of the clean Energy Finance Corporation, making loans, supporting the industry.

Gillian Broadbent
And after we'd been doing that for a year, and we were very comfortable with the framework we put in place, risk, appetite. We'd established the way we were operating, I never imagined that the government coming in would abolish us no matter what we were doing. I thought they'd look at what we were doing, come and ask how it works and what the financial results were or what we were doing, and then they'd decide whether they abolished us. But when we went to meet Joe Hockey, the then treasurer, and Matthias Cornwall, the then finance minister, and Joe said, you know, it's our policy to abolish you. And I said, yes, and I only asked that you don't destroy value.

So if we have to wind down, then we place the assets. We don't just do a fire sale. And he sort of. He thought that would be reasonable. And then he said, what exactly is it that you do?

And so then we explained what we did, but it basically gave me backbone to think, if you don't know what we do and you have no idea what we do, even although we would. We spent some time talking about what we did, but you could see they weren't interested in what we did. They just wanted to abolish us, because that was their platform. And that gave me a real determination to say, it's very important we prove up this model and we continue to do a good job. And in the meantime, we have to present what we are doing to Senate, because they have to abolish the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, they have to amend the legislation for its existence, and they needed the support of both houses.

And I said, all we can do is keep doing a good job and educate people about what we are doing, because they don't know what we're doing. So I guess I felt inspired by their lack of interest and lack of knowledge to think, if you really knew what we were doing, you'd want to have us as part of your armory. So that probably did give me some conviction. And then once I knew it was an education process and a continuation and keeping our spirits up, I did probably have quite high spirits, because I thought, oh, how can they possibly put a case to abolish us without even knowing what we do? I imagine you've worked with government in various capacities, whether it's through that role or the Reserve bank or with your private sector work.

Vidi Tagawal
What do you think is important in terms of having a good working relationship with government? Well, I like to think, I used to say, we are taking public sector skills for a public policy outcome, and if you understand the public policy outcome, then you can design the public policy around it to achieve that outcome. But. So I guess if you just had a policy, we want to abolish this entity because it was set up by the previous government. That's not a very well founded policy.

Gillian Broadbent
So I like to think that we can all be inspired by sound public policy outcomes that we share, goals that we share, that we believe are thought through. And then you have to define the policy and how you get there to achieve that, to achieve those outcomes, because. I feel like the economist in you would want to draft up a paper, right? You'd want to draft a paper and a policy and then go to government. Is your approach to that, or do you like to go in and have a meeting and listen and understand?

Well, I suppose a bit of all of those things. It depends how developed the policies. But when we were, I was asked by the government to draw up a blueprint for whether there is a case for having a clean energy finance corporation. So we were asked to do that in four or five months. So I had to dive in and think about, is this a good idea?

So by the time I, then they said, would you chair this organization? So by that time, I kind of knew the blueprint. I knew the gaps in the market. I knew what the market would benefit from and what role we could play. And some of that helped me because I probably knew the blueprint better than anyone else because I'd written it.

And even when treasury would write something and I'd say, no, that's not it, we have to do this and we have to do that. So I was very hands on in that drafting, and that made me probably in a better position to defend the organization in presentations to the Senate. Now, kudos to you. And I mean, the CFC now have the venture capital fund in veresent ventures who are doing some really good things. I think your legacy has hopefully continued on.

Yes, I mean, it's a very good legacy now. And now even at the end of my turn, the coalition government was claiming it was a good legacy for them. Of course, I want to ask, a lot of your board colleagues talked about your various scripts. They said you're an adventurer. I think youve taken Glenn on margaritas in the US, and he said hes never had margaritas in his life, or I think your Woolworths board went to Salma in the woods in the US.

Vidi Tagawal
Tell me about that side, which is, I guess, a question about relationship building. And I know you were very close with Carla Zampati for many years. Sorry for her loss. I get the sense youre very good at building relationships. And once you build a relationship, you keep in touch with people, whether it's at work or outside work.

How do you build relationships? Like, I'm someone who loves meeting new people and I'm, like, asking questions like this and, but I notice it takes up a lot of my time. How do you reflect on your focus on people and being an adventurer? Well, I think I'm genuinely interested in people and naturally attracted to people if I have something in common with them. So I tend to look for the common ground, but I don't know that I'm an adventurer.

Gillian Broadbent
And I always, in my holidays, I've always wanted to have active holidays because if you have a sedentary job, you want to go hiking, you want to go skiing, you want to go. I don't want to go and sit somewhere and just do nothing. So I guess that activity would always lead me to go and find something to do in the area where I could be active. So I tend to attract friends who want to go on those sort of active holidays. But I can remember the, the managing director at Bankers Trust said to me, just hearing about your holidays I find exhausting.

He obviously didn't want to have one of those whole days. Where's the favorite place you've been to? Is there a city or a country that, that you've traveled to that you really enjoyed? Oh, I, there are so many. No, I mean, I think if you take Africa, you know, some people have never been to Africa because they're nervous about Africa, whereas we went to Africa before the kids could come with us and then when they could come with us.

So I think South America, of course, I don't think there's anywhere I've been where I haven't found it fascinating. I went to Kenya about 20 years ago, and it was a beautiful place. I went to the Masai mara, the safari. And I'm sure you've done that and stayed there and heard the lions roar in the morning. It was just, yes, it's such an extraordinary experience.

Vidi Tagawal
Oh, it was beautiful. It was just beautiful. The other part I want to talk about is I love asking guests is visualize a metaphorical hall of fame or a learning room. And I know you've met a lot of interesting people through your work and travels who are the four or five people that you'd love to invite in that learning room that you, ideally that you know, that you want to learn from and you want to spend a few hours together and just ask them questions? Well, it's interesting.

Gillian Broadbent
Probably a number of them would be monetary economists like Paul Volcker, who was the, you know, the head of the Fed and I don't know. And then you find, you know, the artistic director of the Sydney Theatre Company. I probably because of my interest in the writers festival and theatre and dance, I would be picking the heads of those arts organisations and they wouldn't have anything in common with each other probably, but they'd all be interesting people to put together. And would you have any business leaders in there? I know David Gonski's been someone you've known for over 20 years and you've spent a lot of time with him, is that right?

Yes, but I tend to not think of business leaders as warranting being invited because they're business leaders. They're any invited because they're my friends. That's such an interesting point. And that probably explains your way of thinking because you have these external influences rather than just traditional business, right? Yes, I'd hope so.

Vidi Tagawal
Yeah. We always had an expression at Bankers Trust, we don't want to be barbarians of specialization. And that rang true with me. I don't want to spend time with barbarians of specialization. Yeah.

And tell me about one of the other aspects that came up a lot in the homework I did prior to this is people said you could easily chair a public company, but. And you've chosen to chair not for profit boards, whether it's the CEFC or NIDA or you've chaired the chief executive. Woman what are your thoughts on chairing a public company? Is that something you would like to make time for? I don't think I'd like to make time for it now.

Gillian Broadbent
I might have wanted to do that at one stage, but I've never really joined a board with the idea that I want to be chairing that board. I only ever offer myself for that role if I think they need me or they think, you know, that they're. I think I've always felt, look, I'll help if I can, but I don't really. I don't aspire to do this so much.

Vidi Tagawal
You have this awesome ability to diffuse tension with humor and quips. Even in the boardroom where you do that. Tell me, how do you do that? Because I think a lot of people when they go into a boardroom, a very serious and they've come prepared with all the board packs and you're talking about company and governance. How do you bring humour to that?

Gillian Broadbent
I don't know, but it was always what I grew up with that someone, if anything, was getting a bit too intense, someone would say something slightly funny to bring it back into perspective. You know, if somebody was really intensely angry with somebody else about an issue. So I think I learned that from a pretty early age. And I take it for granted that everyone, anyone could do that. They might just.

But. But I'm not sure whether they can. They don't think of that as that as a circuit breaker. I've always thought of humor and some quip to break as a circuit breaker, and I don't know why. It served me well, because if I couldn't do that, I'd carry this baggage away thinking, no, that drove me mad.

I tend to sort of nip it in the bud if it's something that's bugging me. And that's partly my whole philosophy of, I don't want to carry baggage. I can't carry baggage because it's, if you want to be quick and you want to go everywhere and use your time well, you don't want to get emotionally bogged down with irritation and anger and all those emotions. I've never really seen much advantage in holding on to those negative feelings. I think a lot of people might listen to this and go, Jillian's had the perfect journey.

Vidi Tagawal
You've had all these roles and life seems good, but I'm sure there's a lot of knocks along the way or painful learnings or moments of stress. Are there any periods that come to mind? I know we talked about the CEFC, but that turned out to be a successful outcome in the end. But any periods of life or work that come to mind, that taught you a lot?

Gillian Broadbent
Well, I think when there is stress, to me, it's important you analyze what I mean. You are the stressed person, so you have to analyse. And I've always believed the situation is making you stressed, but you're the person who's picking it up. You can also repel us when you are in control of the way you respond to things. So I guess through the disappointments and the battles that I might have faced, even when trying to persuade the CEO to give me leave without pay to have a baby, I guess it was believing that this is a fair request, you know, but believing in the cause and believing in the humanity of it, that helps me probably argue the case, but also stop being in a situation where I could have left that meeting where he said, no, we're not giving you that.

So I have to go in equipped for my case that I'm putting and, you know, but if he had said, no, we won't give you this leave, I could have gone away quite bitter and twisted, but I suppose I make the effort to avoid a situation where I am going to be bitter and twisted. How do you deal with, I'm sure you're human like anyone else. We have periods of stress and anxiety. How do you deal with those moments? Is that where your active life comes in, where you go skiing or go.

For quite a tennis? That's right. I think the physical activity does help me break the mental stress of something. So I do find that works. And you're right.

We all have disappointments and people who don't like you or take what you say the wrong way. And I think it's always worth examining the impact you have on people because it tells you something about yourself that you didn't know. And it's harder and harder as you get older to retain that sense of questioning and humility because you just get more determined about what your own experience is and the way you handle things. Well, precisely. That's why I find your attitude fascinating because you seem to have this ability to listen to different points of view but also be grounded, like even just our conversations the last few times you're willing to ask questions.

Vidi Tagawal
Are you willing to explore other avenues? I think a lot of people in your part of your position might go, I'm on the board. I know what I'm doing. Listen to me. Right.

Gillian Broadbent
Yes. That's not a very good approach. As soon as you think you know it all, you probably don't know it all. Well, you certainly don't know it all. Yeah.

Vidi Tagawal
I want to talk about your routines, but I have to ask you about your friend Kyla, who you were very close with. And I know you've spoken about it and sorry about your loss. What did you learn from her? Because there's a lot of news articles online. I think you spent a lot of time, she appointed you as the SP's chair.

When you, when you didn't have the experience and you supported her then I've heard you had very different political views and all this. But tell me about like what are two or three things that you learned from her that people might not know about? I learned how to dress better. I mean, it's funny what you do learn from people, but I think because her skills were so different to mine, she had such admiration for my skills and I had admiration for her skills. And I think it's the complementarity of that that what did I learn?

Gillian Broadbent
I can't think of a particular thing like a lesson. But, but I joke when she'd say, oh, you know, you could wear more makeup or little girly things that I still am fond of thinking about because we travelled a lot. And she'd say, let's do this. I said, well, I've never really bought makeup as such, or, you know, little funny little things. You think, well, probably was a good suggestion, or, you know, when she'd say, you should wear a pantsuit, I said, no, I'd never wear that.

No. You know, so she got me into wearing things I wouldn't wear and we'd laugh about. I think it was just her admiration for my skills that she hadn't had any experience with and my admiration for her skills that I hadn't had any experience with. Well, this came up a lot from people I spoke to. As they said, you're always very immaculately dressed, you're always presentable and dressed well, whether it's a Zoom call or in person.

Vidi Tagawal
So maybe that's her influence or perhaps other influences on you. I've mentioned a few times, I'm curious about your routines and habits. Now, you're on the Macquarie board, as you said earlier, you're doing a few other things and you're not 20 years old anymore, but you seem to have this ability to do all this stuff and still be energetic. Give me an insight. Give me an insight into your routine.

What do you eat? What do you do? How do you keep the energy so high? Because I think you must have certain systems, right, that allow you to maintain your energy. Well, I've always been quite a good eater, both a regular eater and a healthy eater.

Gillian Broadbent
I mean, when I say healthy, I mean, I never skip a meal. I mean, I probably eat more than I should, but I've never. I do think food is an important intake into your energy level. I mean, if I haven't eaten, I get really hungry and cranky. I don't like that.

So I'm always looking for lunch when it's lunch time and dinner when it's dinner time. So I do eat regularly, and then the yoga has always been very important to me. I think that helps me with the mental peace of mind and perspective. And as you say, I, you know, I have these active holidays which probably make me interested in staying reasonably fit. Not that I've got any fitness regime, I don't think.

Vidi Tagawal
Yeah, and then I think you listen to a lot of podcasts, right? You walk to the station and you listen to the podcasts. That's right, I listen to a lot of podcasts. Is that one of the ways you learn about what's happening in different industries. More learning about specific things.

Gillian Broadbent
Most of my podcasts are writers festival conversations and so about authors they're not about. Or sometimes I do the daily, you know, the New York Times daily, but they're a little bit more recreational than they are. Okay, so you're not listening to the CEO talk about their business updates? No. Okay, that's good.

Well, I don't know if that's good, but it's what I'm doing. Tell me about. I have to ask about the Macquarie CEO, Shimara. I think she's very inspiring and a rare figure in that senior role and I know you've worked with her quite a bit. Give us an insight into her because I think people have described her as very intelligent, got that job on merit and even now she's the smartest person at the bank.

Vidi Tagawal
I'm sure you've interacted with her. Is there anything that you've taken from her toolkit that you've gone, wow, she does that so well and you've been inspired by it? Well, I think Chimera is an inspiration because she's got an encyclopedic memory and she's all over every element of Macquarie's business and it's quite diverse. So she has a very good capacity to follow the minutiae of all of the business as well as to position Macquarie publicly in terms of where they're going in the big picture. So she's a very inspirational character.

Gillian Broadbent
I don't know about learning any particular thing. I think I just enjoy the way she conducts the role with grace and intelligence. I've met her husband Ed a few times and he's fascinating. He's a cracking personality. I've met him a number of times through mutual friends and he's great and I think just the fact that he's decided to look after the kids and be at home is a testament to their relationship.

Vidi Tagawal
So I think kudos to Ed as well. Quality of her role too. And the demands of her role. Absolutely. I want to move into the final rapid fire sprint, but before I do, is there anything you haven't done so far that you still have outstanding in your life?

That you go, I want to travel to a country or you want to meet someone or anything of that? Like. No, I don't think so. I think because I feel incredibly appreciative of the opportunities I have had that I have worked for very diverse people, diverse industries, been involved in a lot of arts organizations and I don't feel there's anything. I wished I'd climbed Mount Everest or something.

Gillian Broadbent
I don't think I was ever going to be. Extraordinary. Extraordinary in some physical feat that I was aiming to do. Sure. Okay, let's move into the final sprint to close us out.

Vidi Tagawal
Is there one non work investment of time and energy that you've made that you consider the best in your life?

Gillian Broadbent
Well, apart from the holidays and as you call them, adventures that I've undertaken. Have you done any courses or any structured learning or the like? No, not really. I was involved with a meditation group that I think certainly taught me a lot in terms of thoughtfulness and mindfulness. And we'd get together when the teacher would come out.

We'd only get together once a year for two days, and then we'd occasionally get get together for other sessions. But I think the people I met in that group and the experience of quietly sitting with people and sharing mindfulness, it's a lovely way to share with people where you have no sense of having to know anything about them except the fact that you're both in pursuit of mindfulness. I just think it helps you be open to people without knowing what they do. I would never be saying, and what do you do? I think I'd be discovering what they did.

Vidi Tagawal
Is there one thing you'd like to learn in the next six months? I'd like to go back to my Spanish and learn it again because I think I'm getting worse and worse. Oh, so you could speak it fluently, could you? Well, I could when I lived in South America. I'm not.

Gillian Broadbent
I've got very rusty. I get an email every day with a word and sometimes I know the word and sometimes I don't. And I just keep thinking, gosh, I was going to do this and then go back and read my books in Spanish and I haven't gone back to doing that. It's surprising how you think you have more time, but you don't seem to take up these disputes. Yeah.

Vidi Tagawal
Or maybe after this you might get back into it. So is there one interview question you love asking prospective candidates? I don't know if you still interview people, but I'm sure you've done it over your career. Give me one question that you love asking candidates when you meet them. I can't think.

Gillian Broadbent
When I last interviewed somebody for a role, it tends to be a role for a board, and I don't think I've got a set question to ask. What do you want to find out about? I usually ask a question which gives me an understanding of the way they respond to situations. So it's not a yes no. Oh, do you know about that?

Or what's your view on that? It's how do you deal with situation that's difficult around a board where there's disagreement? It's that sort of style of conducting yourself in a collective pursuit that I'd probably ask a question about. And last one, is there one pet peeve that you have? I don't think so.

I tend to not hold on to pet peeves. Okay. And I think that probably is the secret to you doing all these things even now, is you're very open minded. I think where I can probably learn from that, where I think I hold things and I hold grudges, that I get angry over it and that can age, age us. All right.

Vidi Tagawal
So I think that's a yes. Well, I think it's a recognition of your limited capacity to hold on to things. And when you think I'm going to use my limited capacity to hold on to things I really care about or I want to learn about or I want to memorize, I don't want to be holding on to something that inhibits the efficiency of my head or my life. Well, that's a good note to end on. That brings us to a close.

Gillian Broadbent, thank you so much for joining me, and thank you for sharing your story. Thank you. Vid. Well, there you have it. That's the end of my conversation with Gillian Broadbend in this episode 165.

When I interview guests as esteemed as Jillian but who shy away from the public eye, it can be tricky to know what they really like. This conversation showed how beautiful Jillian's humanity really is with no desire to seek attention, but still have an outsized impact in so many industries and reached the top. So I hope you enjoyed the balance of career and professional and personal. And as always, all my details are in the show notes. If you want to get in touch, especially if you want to partner with, with us as a sponsor brand.

My email is in the show notes. And make sure to read the show notes to apply for KPMG's global tech innovator competition. Catch you soon.

#165 Jillian Broadbent: Charting new paths as Board Director in Public & Private sector at Macquarie Bank, Qantas, Woolworths, CEFC & more!

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1: Early Career and Influences

2: Transition to Board Roles

3: Challenges in Leadership

4: Philosophy and Personal Growth

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