#161 Holly Ransom: Inspiring journey from Perth to working w Obama, Branson, Gladwell + world events, her grandma and more!

This episode explores the fascinating journey of Holly Ransom, detailing her experiences from growing up in Perth to collaborating with notable figures like Barack Obama and Richard Branson, and her insights on leadership, personal development, and global issues.

1. Leadership is accessible and achievable for everyone, not just those in high positions.
2. Personal development and understanding one's influence are crucial in every sphere of life.
3. Challenges and stepping out of comfort zones are essential for growth.
4. The importance of diversity in leadership to bring about effective change.
5. Continuous learning and adaptation are keys to sustained success.

1. Introduction and Background

Holly discusses her background, the influences of her upbringing, and her initial career moves. Holly Ransom: "Early leadership roles really shaped my career path."

2. Key Professional Experiences

Holly shares her experiences working with global leaders and the lessons learned. Holly Ransom: "Interviewing Obama was about learning, not comparison."

3. Leadership and Personal Development

Exploration of Holly's book and her philosophy on leadership as a universal skill. Holly Ransom: "Leadership should be as accessible as any basic human right."

4. Challenges and Overcoming Them

Holly talks about the challenges of changing career paths and starting her own business. Holly Ransom: "The first three months of starting my business were pivotal."

5. Future of Leadership

Discussions on the future of leadership and the need for diversity and adaptability. Holly Ransom: "We need a new generation of leaders to face global challenges."

1. Embrace continuous learning: Always seek new knowledge and perspectives to stay relevant.
2. Step out of comfort zones: Challenges are opportunities for growth.
3. Value diversity: Embrace various perspectives for comprehensive problem-solving.
4. Develop resilience: Learn to adapt and recover from setbacks.
5. Engage in mentorship: Both as a mentor and a mentee to expand your understanding and network.

Holly Ransom is an internationally acclaimed leadership speaker and consultant – paving the way for leaders across the globe to turn knowledge into action for real-world change. She is CEO of Emergent Global and author of The Leading Edge. Holly was personally requested by Barack Obama to interview him on stage. She delivered a Peace Charter to His Holiness the Dalai Lama and was chosen by Sir Richard Branson as a nominee for Wired Magazine’s prestigious ‘Smart List’ of Future Game Changers to watch.
Holly’s interview portfolio spans from thought leaders like Malcolm Gladwell to powerful figures such as Billie Jean-King, Condoleezza Rice, First Lady Michelle Obama, former Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard and even the world’s first humanoid robot, Sophia. She has hosted conferences for renowned global entities, including the likes of Coca-Cola and James Clear.

Holly was born in Perth, Australia and now spends her time between Melbourne, Australia and the USA.

It’s now time to explore your curiosity. Click the links below to listen and enjoy now.

If you're keen to discuss sponsorship and partnering with us, email us at vidit@thehighflyerspodcast.com today!

People

Holly Ransom, Barack Obama, Richard Branson, Malcolm Gladwell

Companies

None

Books

"The Leading Edge: Dream Big, Spark Change and Become the Leader the World Needs You to Be" by Holly Ransom

Guest Name(s):

Holly Ransom

Content Warnings:

None

Vidi Tagawal

What if we could reimagine the traditional notion of a high flyer? Hey friends, welcome back. Or welcome to the High Flyers podcast where we do reimagine a high flyer showcase the brightest and most relatable role models and companies and their journey from sunrise to today as one of the premier products in our Curiosity center lineup, providing on demand intelligence featuring Olympic athletes, business and cultural leaders, students, journalists, investors, founders and more from around the world to help you be 1% better every single day. I'm your host, Vidi Tagawal, and let's have some fun. Thanks to you, this podcast continues to rank in the global top ten podcasts by both Spotify and Apple podcasts for the past two years running.

Holly Ransom

And we hope you're enjoying our catalog of 150 plus episodes featuring guests from twelve countries across nearly 30 industries. This whole idea that if you're nervous, which is really hard idea to hear the first time because you're like, wow, what does that mean? And so I'm selfish. Like I'm feeling nervous. So that means I'm selfish.

That's interesting. But if you sit with it and go, if you're experiencing nerves, it means you're focused on you, you're in your own head, you're getting stressed on your own story, you're not thinking about the other person, which is always what I should be doing as an interviewer. And I not thinking about my audience, which is also what I should always be doing as an interviewer. And so for me, it's really important that I shift outward. And the other thing I'd say is I continually reframe and glow.

Why would I comparison robs everyone, you know what I mean? Of joy, of the opportunity to be present, of the opportunity to learn. So versus coming in and going, oh, what have I got to offer? X I always think, wow, what an incredible opportunity. I've got to pick the brains of Obama, Branson Gladwell Rice, on behalf of this audience.

What a privilege that is. And so I think when you come from the point of view of it being learning or curiosity versus comparison, it changes the conversation. My guest this week is Holly Ransom in this episode 161, which is a replay of episode 44, one we're reliving from the archives. Given how much the audience and I love this conversation. Holly was born in Perth, Australia and now I believe spends her time between Australia and the US.

Vidi Tagawal

This was an absolute thrill to spend some time with Holly, to understand and learn more about how she is as a person. Her journey that started in Perth, Australia and has taken her around the world, her routines, learnings, perspectives and insights on a number of specifics and much, much more. Some of the insights I hope you're able to take away from this conversation include how to make the jump from a corporate job, starting your own business, the importance of the first three months Holly shares insights on how she prepares for a various globally recognized events. She's hosted companies she's worked with and world leaders including President Obama, Richard Branson, Malcolm Gladwell, the Dalai Lama, Adam Grant and many more shes had a chance to work with I loved Hollys concept of why nerves are selfish, the importance of spending hours of practice and refining our craft, which has helped her become an eloquent speaker and thought leader today. The benefits of leadership and how theyve evolved for Holly which culminated in Hollys book, the leading edge, dream big, spark change and become the leader the world.

Needs you to be. This episode was recorded in September 2021. It's now time to explore your curiosity. Please enjoy.

Holly, hi. Thanks so much for joining me on the show. I wanted to do this forever. So welcome. Thank you so much.

Holly Ransom

I'm excited to be here. Now, given the name of the show, who do you consider a high flyer in your life that perhaps hasn't got the recognition? Oh, great question. I think there's a lot. I think that's one of the interesting things going on the journey of writing this book about leadership that I was really intentional about kind of wanting to reset.

The thing I say to people a lot about the book is you absolutely know the names of some of the high flowers in it, read stories about Malcolm Gladwell and Barack Obama and people like that. But I think the people that people will leave thinking about and remembering and talking about are going to be the people that they probably haven't heard of yet. So I think about people like Jane Chusen, who's been a longtime mentor of mine, who runs an organization called Igniting Change. She's founded Comic Relief, which has raised a billion dollars in the UK. And she's so under the radar, unbelievably humble, but like nobody I've ever met in terms of being able to drive change, gather people around a cause and make the dial move on things.

Same with another mentor of mine, Audet Excel, who runs Adara, an organisation that's just absolutely changing the game in maternal and infant mortality in the developing world. An incredible thinker too, in terms of how she's driven a really unique business model, using investment bankers to kind of support, support and fund that development work. And again, may not be a household name, but is just an incredible high flyer and an inspiring thinker and doer. So people like that for me particularly, a lot of the amazing female leaders in my life probably are the ones I'd raise in response to that question. And I think it's evident your grandmother's probably a high flyer to reading the book.

She is, yeah. I don't know if she'd agree with the term high flyer. She packs a punch, though, my grandmother, she's a force. That would be the way I'd describe her. A force for good.

Yeah, correct. Now, Holly, let's zoom out and talk about your sunrise, your childhood. And I mean, we know you grew up in the, in Western Australia. What were your passions in high school? When you think of young Holly, you're maybe five, six, seven years old.

What were your passions and what do the teachers think of you? Good question. Early in life, I mean, I was definitely just a very active kid. I was always playing whatever ball sport I could find my way into and I was very involved in team sport growing up, had a passion for AFL until I was kicked out at age ten because it was just for the boys and then sort of found my way into everything I could. And I think I very early was demonstrating sort of leadership skills long before I realised that sort of my grandma tells me stories now of sort of being at school assemblies when I was in year three and they were sort of holding up the teacher talking after an assembly and they said, oh, we better let you go back to class.

Holly Ransom

And they said, oh, don't worry about it, Holly, you'll have taken care of the class. It was just kind of something that evidently I enjoyed or that I found myself having opportunity to do. And that's one of the things I'd say about my earliest mentors, my teachers. And I was incredibly lucky to have phenomenal educators in primary school and in high school. And I think most significantly for the way that they allowed me to run my own race.

Like I remember a lot of the time intellectually and just in terms of the opportunities I was given, being allowed to take on extra material, to be able to be stretched and challenged with opportunities they'd set me up for outside of school, with other organizations. They really pushed me in an encouraging way and in a way that I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for that kind of early encouragement and that belief that instills within you in that idea that you can do anything you set your mind to. So I was very fortunate for the way that they encouraged me and as well, I think, made learning about not just what was inside of the classroom, but what was outside of the classroom. The importance of kind of applying what you're learning and seeking opportunities that complement what it was you might be learning from the books or from the blackboard. And I know in the book you've talked about your two brothers, and you've talked about growing up in a family unit where perhaps emotion wasn't as openly shared.

I wonder if you can share what that influence had on your life, particularly your brothers in the family unit, around emotion. Yeah, I think it's something that I've spent a lot of time trying to unlearn because I think it's sort of, well, it works till it doesn't, right? Like, we like to all think that we can kind of just push through everything and nothing can faze us. But as we know, or any book, any lesson in kind of a healthy emotional management will tell us that's not how life works. And if we're going to, it's on both sides, too.

Holly Ransom

If we're going to numb more dull pain, we're also going to numb and dull joy and excitement and all the other side of the emotional spectrum as well. And I think mine as was specifically with that kind of just, we got on and did. You didn't kind of get upset about stuff, which sort of meant that you never really allowed yourself to feel things. And as I write about in the book, that all worked, as I said, until it didn't, was diagnosed with depression. And a big part of that coming from an unhealthy relationship I think I had with vulnerability.

And probably this disconnect I had with sort of feelings was this idea of probably being very headstrong and not actually checking in with myself energetically and working out what it was that I was really enjoying being a kid, aware of when I was pushing myself too hard. It was just a typical kind of a type strategy that hit the wall. And I think one of the most powerful things that I've done in my life is do the work to reset that, to get comfortable with vulnerability, to think about managing energy instead of time, to become a lot more comfortable and actually actively choose to surround myself with people who embrace living life in a vulnerable, open, emotion rich way so that they were more of the conversations and interactions I was having, too. All of that. I think that's been a really big reset, but it's a really hard thing to unlearn.

We get wired a certain way when we produce results being wired a certain way, too. It's really easy to think that if I unwind any of this, things aren't going to work anymore. I'm not going to be able to do what I do. Or maybe this is part of how things work for me right now. So it's a really delicate thing to work your way through.

But I eternally grateful that I did. And did you have any heroes you looked up to at that age? Did you have any posters in the wall or any people you were just fascinated by that young age? Oh, at a really young age. I remember quite vividly I was on my nan's front lawn back when kind of podcast must have just becoming a thing.

It might have even been a radio interview at the time, to be honest. But Janine Alice, the founder of Ghost Juice, and I just remember she was the first female entrepreneur that I was conscious of. It's not to say that there weren't others, but just this Australian who was achieving such extraordinary success with something that was visibly around me. You know, I could see the footprint of the business that she was building down at the local supermarket and things like that. She was really inspiring, and she has been a huge source of inspiration and kind of encouragement in my life that I'm very grateful for having.

14 year old me couldn't believe it when I sort of finally, later in life, got to meet her and when she encouraged me in kind of the early steps that I took into my business. So she was definitely one Serena Williams. I think from an athlete standpoint, just this fierce determination and just, yeah, her resolve. And then I think as she's matured, too, the way that she's become an increasingly powerful voice in the social conversation, I really appreciate as well. So I would say probably those two in my earliest memories, love it.

Now, if you fast forward to when you were 1617, as you're about to graduate from high school, what were your aspirations in life? Did you, what was your definition of success at that young age with all these influences you had? I think at that stage of life, I mean, I had a very idealistic view of the world because I know that's what informed my degree choice. I chose to do a law arts degree majoring in economics with a minor in political science. And it was based on that idea.

Holly Ransom

If you want to change the world, you need to understand the existing legal structures, political structures, economic structures, that whole basis of kind of, you need to seek first to understand before you can seek to be understood. So from that standpoint, I think it was a want to change things, not much of a clue how and therefore the view. Being at uni, I wanted to try and join some dots and think about what making my contribution might look like. But I don't think there was much more of you than that. I think naturally, when you do a law degree, you toy with, do I want to be a lawyer?

I worked out pretty quickly, working as a paralegal while I had an amazing boss, and I had a great time doing that job. While I was in my first couple of years of uni, I went down very quickly. I didn't want to be in the law, I think in large part because I couldn't meet a lawyer who encouraged me into the profession. All of them said, whatever, you don't do law, which I found really interesting. That was sort of the encouragement of get the degree and then run hard in the other direction, which is exactly what I did.

And I think the other gift I got given is that day one of university, my vice chancellor, Alan Robson, said, if you leave university with just a piece of paper, we've failed you. If you haven't taken the opportunities to volunteer and to be involved in student societies and to go and study abroad and to do everything that this period of your life facilitates the opportunity for, then we've let you down. And so I think from that standpoint, it was a great gift that I sort of ran almost too far in the other direction with. I probably got all too involved in everything outside of the classroom and. But it was this great lesson of go and try, go and experiment.

And I think that's where I found my path. It was through volunteering, it was through work experience. It was through starting and building organizations and working with some incredible young leaders. In doing so, that kind of the path came together. And I think if I'd sat in a classroom for four years, I never would be doing five, six years more accurate for the law degree.

I would never have ended up doing what I'm doing now. And now, Holly, with all your learnings and experiences, if you could go back and design a school, I mean, even now, if you could design a school, what would it look like? I mean, particularly with all you learned recently with the book and the fact that you've met so many world class performers, what do you like? What should a school look like today if you had a choice to build one? Yeah, it's a great question, and very different would be the answer.

I have a lot of love for educators. Like teachers have fundamentally shaped my life. So I want to be very clear, I'm not being critical of teachers here. I think the thing I'm really influenced by is Sir Ken Robinson's work in this area. I've been a big kind of follower of his work.

I was very fortunate to work with him a couple of times while he was still here. And his whole piece around schools killing creativity and just the value that we place on rote learning and perfectionism in the absence of sort of all else. And what that does and drives, I think is really interesting. And I think it's pretty, pretty true. When you look at a lot of school, we're still, when I was going through, we're teaching WandaVision even though you never needed to know it.

And when we've got a generation of kids who are asking why we need to be able to scaffold their learning onto something bigger than that, I think we need to be playing with pedagogy as much as with content. So actually how we do the learning. The greatest experiences I had in my schooling career were ones where I got the opportunity to try putting learning into action. When year ten, when we had to build a business at school for a semester and you had to run the thing and either made money or it didn't, or in year nine, commerce, where we had to run the whole school production, and all of a sudden you're in charge of leading 60 of your classmates night in, night out to actually produce a team effort and achieve an outcome. Those sorts of things were incredible experiences.

And I think for me, the school would be much more entrepreneurial in that way. It would be a lot more active in terms of the applied learning or the opportunities to apply. I think there'd be elements of the baccalaureate in it where you're thinking about how you're creating that broader context of the world. And even I love the project element of what baccalaureate has involved in terms of how you've got to do something for a social cause and a few things like that. I would definitely borrow from that system, but overwhelmingly, I think it would be about trying to make school the place where we make it safe, to take risks and to fail and to try.

I think that's something that didn't happen overwhelmingly for the millennial generation. And I think it is part of where we see some of the challenge around mental health coming. And I think also at a time where we're talking to 17 and 18 year olds about how they need to prepare for an 18 career life, the most important thing we can be powering in them is a sense of being able to be comfortable with the unknown and confident in their ability to apply their skills and their knowledge in all manner of different contexts. And I think that's the sort of jungle gym school environment we need to be creating. Now.

Now onto magic moments. Holly. And this is probably one that listeners really enjoy. I think some of those moments that are fun or painful learnings or people you've met, and you've met dozens and you've shared some in your book, is there a six month period that stands out for you that was the most energizing and fun out of all the moments you've had so far? Six month period?

Holly Ransom

No, I don't think I could say that universally. I mean, the thing I think all the time is I'm creating the next one. We were talking about this on the weekend, like the idea. We're talking about someone that we know who sort of, I guess, yearns for their golden days that they very much deem, and only they deem it to have been in their rearview mirror, as opposed to the idea that it could happen again tomorrow or next week or next year. So I think they're without question, highlights.

I don't think they would stack together in a six month period. I think they'd probably be scattered all over the course of the last decade, really. And I hope that I'm saying the same thing about the next decade when I reflect on that. So I hope the next exciting opportunity, golden moment is just around the corner. And now with magic moments.

I mean, people are a big part of that. Right? And you've talked in your book a lot about the external environment, but also your upbringing. I wonder today, like, who's the one that keeps you in check? I mean, particularly given you all the accomplishments you've had, it would be easy for people around you to agree with what you say and give you praise.

Do you have people that kind of put you in check and say, holly, no, you're wrong. All of my friends would absolutely choose to take that role on quite happily. Yeah, I definitely do. And I think that's one of the things I value in my mentors, my closest friends, my partner, is this ability to have really great conversations where you talk deeply about issues. And you certainly, it's not that you necessarily flat out agree, because I think oftentimes when you're talking about things with people you're closest to, you have an alignment of values.

Holly Ransom

But I think certainly that you have aspects and perspectives you're always learning from. Like, every time I talk to one of the people that I'm closest to and sort of my tribe, as I would call them, I learn or I get a new idea or a different take on something or they play something back to me and I think about it from a different way because they've challenged me to push past something or see it differently. So absolutely, I think I've surrounded myself with people who I know come from a place of unconditionally supporting me and believing in me, which is why I feel there's a real safety for all of us in challenging and pushing one another because it comes from the right place. So as opposed to seeing it from. As a threat per se, you see it as something that's helping you refine and sharpen your thinking or the way that you're applying yourself in order to be able to do better.

I think sometimes that people who disagree with you or who choose to challenge you where maybe that doesn't come from a great place, that can be a really challenging dynamic sometimes, and certainly speaking from personal experience, it can be quite toxic. So I think it's a really fine line to walk finding those people that can play that role consistently for you, different to people who play it on projects where you're intentionally appointing a devil's advocate, you want someone to push and play back kind of that alternative view or that negative feedback. But I think when it comes to the people who are going to do that through life with you, there really needs to be that alignment of values and the sense that you're pulling in the same direction. So their challenge and devil's advocacy comes from a point of view of really helping you get closer to whatever your definition of success is, versus imposing their own agenda, perhaps on yours, or seeking to come from perhaps more self interested objectives in the way that they're interacting with you. Now, a lot of the listeners of this show are either young in their career, they're about to start their journey post university, or they're looking for inspiration.

So people are in corporate goals roles and they want to transition to starting their own venture, perhaps now we know you've started your own venture. I believe it was about six years ago. I wonder if you can talk about the first three months or so when you started it, particularly because you'd have all these ideas and freedoms. How did you clarify the key focuses and turn those ideas into reality? Because I think that's something that a lot of us struggle with, where they've got all these ideas and all these thoughts, but they don't quite know how to translate that into reality.

Holly Ransom

It's such a great question about the first three months because they're so pivotal in so many ways. And I was quite lucky my first three months coincided with, and I don't know that. I'm sure that. I don't know it's chicken and the egg in my head as to which one happened first. But I was doing a challenge with my best friend where we were doing 365 days of things we were afraid of, and I chose to step out of my job and start my own business during that 365 days.

I'm sure in part, that 365 days emboldened me to kind of actually make that move because that's a scary thing when you step out from the known and into the unknown. But I think the other great gift it gave me was it's forced me to rip off a lot of band Aids that otherwise would have gotten in my way of starting well. And by that, I mean I think one of the interesting things, and maybe some of your listeners will resonate with this, when you go from a world that you know, whether that's schooling and the structure of university to starting your own thing, or whether it's that you've been in a corporate role and you decide you want to do something different, you place a lot of pressure and expectation on yourself in the way that you would if you were continuing to do the thing that you've been doing. And by that, I mean, for example, if you're five years into a job, you're pretty good at it. You kind of know how to push yourself.

You kind of know what the goal posts look like. And so it's really easy when you move into a new world to place an overwhelming set of pressure on yourself to just start doing and achieving. If someone comes in a way that's counterintuitive to actually allowing you to start, like, the most important thing about your first three months is to explore and to learn. Like, you need to have as many learning conversations as you can, and you need to have a strong sense of direction. I want to be in my own marketing business, or I want to be a digital strategist, or I'm going to go over here and be a coder that's building these sorts of platforms for people, whatever it is that you have a sense of direction around.

And then you need to take that direction and test it in the world and ask people what their advice is. If you're wanting to do that, how would they suggest you bring it to life? Do they know anyone to know anyone who might need your types of skills and services. So I think that's the most important part. And the thing I observed was I sort of the moment I took the shackles off and actually lowered the bar of what success looked like.

All I wanted to do at the end of the first twelve months was to replace the money that I would have made in the job that I was in previously. And I wanted to have gotten enough and an understanding of the world I wanted to play in to have a really concrete strategy for how I wanted to move forward was the moment I started to succeed. Prior to that, when it was always about, like, higher objectives than that, immediately I felt almost paralyzed. I really didn't know how to move. So resetting the goalposts and lowering the bar of success was actually the thing that allowed me to become successful a lot quicker.

I think the other thing I'd say is the faster you can say I don't know and ask for help when you're being a beginner, the better. There is going to be so much stuff you don't know how to do, and that is totally okay. And again, it's kind of that ego barrier when you've come from something you're really familiar with and really good at, where you can get in your own way and sort of go, oh, I should know how to do this. This is embarrassing. I can't let someone know that I don't understand that.

And so the thing I would encourage people to do is get that group of people around you that you feel comfortable saying, I don't know, in front of and then asking for the help of. And the faster you can do that, the faster you're starting to set yourself up for success. Amazing insights and very actionable. Now, I think one of the things we love talking about on the show is about process. And you've talked in the book about all the world class performers you've met and the opportunity you've created.

I think one thing I'm curious about is can you share your thought process leading up to meeting an Obama or Richard Branson? I mean, how do you plan for that? What are some of your thought processes and how do you deal with that kind of imposter syndrome where you're, and I think we've spoken about this on the other podcast about where you feel like, what do I doing here? Right? What is that process?

Like the week or two leading up to it? Do you have to pre submit your questions or do you prepare for it yourself and then post it? Can you keep a relationship with them can you speak to Obama at an event? Can you go up to him or what does that look like? I think people will be curious to understand that.

Holly Ransom

Yeah, so it's a little bit circumstantial. So every one of these individuals has their own rules of engagement, so to speak, in terms of how they structure up and also how you meet them. So some of these things have been programs I've designed and run where they've been invited guests. Other times it's been things that you're engaged to go and do on behalf of an organisation. So that always changes the kind of setup a little bit.

And also, as well, they have very different processes themselves. So some people do require you to submit questions in advance. Others are happy to have it go in any direction. Live on stage, let's go for it. So that always changes the process and approach.

My job is always to have done my homework and to understand, irrespective of how I've got to channel the homework a lot about that person. Be ready for any direction. Conversation can go in because even when you pre script questions or pre submit, and this is the way I work, I never stick to a structure because I don't think they make interesting conversations. So I'm happy to agree themes, but I would never have a list of questions that I then follow verbatim. I just don't think that is an interesting interview.

And so regardless, I've got to be ready to move. And the most important thing I'm doing is being an active listener and then responding to what it is that the person has offered me up and taking that in a direction that I think is helpful and useful for my audience. So yeah, it goes in all manner of different directions depending on who the guest is. And then I think the thing is that I feel very fortunate for is sort of advice early that I had in my career that, you know, nerves are selfish. And this whole idea that if you're nervous, which is really hard idea to hear the first time because you're like, wow, what does that mean?

And so I'm selfish. Like I'm feeling nervous. So that means I'm selfish. That's interesting. But if you sit with it and go, if you're so if you're experiencing nerves, it means you're focused on you, you're in your own head, you're getting stressed on your own story, you're not thinking about the other person, which is always what I should be doing as an interviewer and I not thinking about my audience, which is also what I should always be doing as an interviewer.

And so for me, it's really important that I shift outward. And the other thing I'd say is I continually reframe and glow. Why would I comparison robs everyone, you know what I mean? Of joy, of the opportunity to be present, of the opportunity to learn. So versus coming in and going, oh, what have I got to offer?

X I always think, wow, what an incredible opportunity. I've got to pick the brains of Obama, Branson, Gladwell Rice, on behalf of this audience. What a privilege that is. And so I think when you come from the point of view of it being learning or curiosity versus comparison, it changes the conversation. There are definitely moments where you go, oh, my gosh, I can't believe this is happening.

Don't get me wrong, I've had out of body experiences several times over getting to interview some of these people I've grown up idolizing and who I deeply respect. But it is that moment of going, I'm here to play a role, and my role can only be played if I'm in the right headspace. So I need to frame the way I'm approaching this the right way, which is I'm here to serve the most valuable conversation that can happen between this leader and this audience. And I guess the challenge I always set myself is how do I uncover something that hasn't already been uncovered? So how do we make this different to the conversations that have already been before?

Because these leaders are often very storied. It's not like they haven't had many a conversation. So there's always a want to try and make it unique and different and interesting. And then it depends in terms of the post interview interaction, I'm one of those people that I believe people's most precious thing is their time. And so I think you've got to be really respectful of it.

I'm very fortunate to have some great relationships with some of these people. I'm not the sort of person that would ever choose to impose on their time unless I really needed it. So it's sort of knowing the right things that you want to be asking certain people about versus the idea that you're interacting with them regularly. That's just not something I think is respectful of their time, the demand on them, etcetera. But definitely, I'm very fortunate to have email addresses and phone numbers and stuff like that of some of these sorts of people.

And I feel confident that if I needed them, and I have had that proven to me in a couple of instances, I'm very fortunate they pick up the phone or answer the email at the other end. Back to the episode in a moment. If you're new to the High Flies podcast and enjoying this episode with Holly Ransom, you might enjoy episode 49 with Shane Hatton, a business coach and author, or episode 61 with Olympic 400 meters sprinter Steve Solomon, and access all 160 plus episodes@thehifliaspodcast.com. That's the highflyerspodcast.com. Now back to the episode.

And I've heard you talk about the experience with Obama, where he had this calmness and he didn't want to impose himself right. When you interviewed him when he was in Australia. I think the question there is that's really interesting because you think that a lot of these people have achieved such high levels of success in the definition of success that they'd sort of feel comfortable in who they are in their own skin. But the sense I get listening to you say that is Obama almost felt that, whereas perhaps the others didn't. I wonder if you can give us a sense of what that environment is like around them, because what made obama have that calmness?

Was it the fact that he was growing up in an environment where he didn't have to prove anything, or do you think it was the culture he was in? I wonder, do you have any kind of reflections on that experience? I think it probably comes down to what you said in your setup, to the question, which is that he had a very clear sense of self. And this is really common to a lot of people that I interview at that level. There is a real harmness to them.

Holly Ransom

Obama is different to a lot of politicians I've interviewed, but he's not different to that level of kind of a speaker and thought leader or influencer in the sense that they, whether you're talking about a Sir Ken Robinson or a Condoleezza rice or a Susan Cain or Obama, there is a real sense of clarity on the purpose that they're trying to achieve in the world. And they've clearly done the work on themselves to know what they stand for and how they want to show up in the world. And so I think that's really evident when you interact with them. And I think that just comes from he was, it was very clear, and you read his work, he was born with a want to do something really significant in the world. And the only way that moves from inward to outward is through getting really clear on how to articulate that and how to explain your ideas and your vision and all of that.

And so I think what I was very fortunate to interview in 2018 was the product of 10,000 hours plus of refining that work, of understanding how to sit in front of an audience and try and engage them in ideas that are bigger than them, and talk through complex things in a way that allows the process and the ideas themselves to be accessible. So I think it has a lot to do with every leader, I'd say, who's good at this has very clearly done the work on themselves, and they continue to do work on themselves. They're not people that would define it as a destination. They would very much say it's a journey. But I think that's the defining things about it's that clarity, that self work, and then it's the courage to keep pursuing those paths, because I think whichever one of them you want to look at, it doesn't come without challenge and obstacle.

Now, with your work, I think we all see the exterior, and perhaps not the interior. What are some of the unknowns about the work you do that might surprise people? Gosh, it's a hard question to reflect on yourself, because everything that you do sort of comes second nature in terms. Of maybe it's in any facet, because I think you do have portfolio. So in any facet, are there any unknowns?

Holly Ransom

I mean, I guess there are always unknowns. My work wouldn't be interesting if there weren't. Like, I think the moment I feel everything's known is the moment I get bored and start looking to do something else. So I think I actively pursue things that have unknown elements because I think that's where you grow. If you're not being pushed outside of your comfort zone or being challenged and learning, then I just think life's pretty dull.

So from that standpoint, I think, I mean, the unknown of my work is that every week the subject matter and the content changes, and I love that. I'm very industry agnostic, work across a variety of industries, which is both really interesting and also really taxing. This week I've got to prepare for work across five very different businesses with very different subject matter. So it's going to be a kind of mentally taxing week, trying to get across different sets of strategies, language, industry objectives, strategic aspirations, all that sort of stuff, and then try and refine that down into how I'm going to play a role and be able to serve that organization or that leadership group in assisting them moving towards that direction. So, yeah, I think the unknowns are what keep the work interesting.

And I probably. The thing I would say is I don't know what unknowns next. That's part of the fun, is sort of the material keeps changing, the subject matter keeps changing, and I keep trying to change the way that I'm contributing to. I like exploring new ideas and new ways of doing things as well. So I'm always kind of researching at the periphery of kind of, okay, who's doing interesting stuff in this space?

How could we change the dynamics? What might be some ideas outside of this industry that we could pull into it that could add some value? So it's a real mixed bag. So, yeah, I don't know, on the face of it, what unknowns would be interesting to listeners. But I would say the thing that I love about my work is that there is no two weeks that look the same, and I'm learning all the time about things that I had no idea about.

So that opportunity to continually be building a broader context or understanding the world is a whole lot of fun. And now I think on that same vein, there's an interesting question here from some listeners, actually, who are university students, and they've asked, they've said, holly's so well spoken, and Holly knows the vocabulary to use in interviews, how she created that. Do you find you use certain sources to learn about the world? And how do you collate your thoughts to be concise in interviews? I think particularly someone like yourself who's doing so many different things, you'd have so many differing opinions.

How do you collate your thoughts? Is one of the listening questions. Yeah, great question from whoever asked it. It varies. So, firstly, I appreciate the compliment.

Holly Ransom

I mean, sometimes you don't feel all that eloquent in these conversations, particularly when you're talking to extremely eloquent guests. So I think it's understanding the role you've got to play in those interviews, too. I think sometimes people almost, again, get in their own way by sweating too much over being word perfect or things like that. The moment you remind yourself that nobody else knows exactly how you were planning on saying something is the moment you relieve that pressure of kind of getting caught in being word perfect. Or where are my notes?

Or all that sort of stuff. The thing I would say to your listeners is it's practice. I have done, gosh knows how many hours this. This started as a. As a teenager doing speeches at school.

Then it turned into kind of stuff I was doing in the nonprofit landscape, where I would go to the opening of an envelope if it meant I had the chance to talk about our cause and what we were trying to fundraise for. And I cut my teeth for a lot of years in rotary, where I had some really hostile audiences who didn't want to hear about doing rotary differently. And so that was a really interesting training ground out every week, talking to audiences, challenging yourself on how to present your message differently. So the thing I would say is the most important thing is to practice. The only way you get better at this stuff is through doing, which is that frustrating piece of advice that nobody wants to hear.

Because we all want to search for a silver bullet. But the reality is this silver bullet doesn't exist. Like we are the sum total of what we repeatedly do. And so if this is something that you've identified in the person asking this question that you want to be good at, then I would encourage you to be thinking about how do you find, how do you put yourself where lightning strikes, these sorts of opportunities. And that can be as simple as putting your hand up in a lecture and asking a question and making yourself do it every time you go to a lecture at uni.

Or it can be as simple as getting involved in a non profit organisation and playing a role where you might be preparing for stakeholder meetings, or you might be helping out at local council, at forums and things like that, where you get the opportunity to be communicating with a really diverse group of people. Because that's the other thing, too. When you've done. I've been at this over a decade now. I learn every time I do it in a different context with a different audience.

So it's really interesting. Some things work with certain audiences and some things don't. There's language that you need to be really alive to. That's why every time I'm talking with a client, I'm asking for information on how do you talk to your world about this? What are the terms you use to talk about culture?

What are the terms you use to talk about strategy? Because no two worlds talk exactly the same. Language is a part of what gives a sense of belonging and binds us. And it's very tribal in the sense of the way that you talk with your friends would be different to some of the language I'd use with my friends. Or the way that we talk in our company might be different to the way that people talk in their company.

And so it's really important we are mindful of that. And so, again, that's just a fact finding mission. If there's a world that you're wanting to be able to ask better questions of or make a better contribution part of it is being curious. How can you connect with leaders and understand it? What about their world do you get?

Where might you be able to be of service to them? I think that was a great bit of advice. I heard early, a mentor of mine, I'm going to paraphrase it and get it wrong, but he used to say busy people have more ideas scattering around their floor that they haven't been able to pick up effectively. So his thing was always go pick up one of those things for them and say, hey, how about I run with this for you? And find that opportunity to kind of work with someone you admire by virtue of adding value to them from the get go.

So I think challenging yourself to whether it's a cause you believe in or a person you want to learn from industry, that you want to understand, find the way that you can be in service while you're being curious and start practicing would be my other thing. And another question here is someone who's viewed your LinkedIn profile and went back to 2011 and noticed when you worked at Rio Tinto, I think you were description was that you worked in a role created for you by the CEO Sam Walsh. And the question is, if they are a grad or they've just started out in their career, how can they create a similar opportunity? Because I think the word is create. You've got to build that credibility.

Are there any pointers or any actionable insights there on how they can create an opportunity like that with the leader of a company? Yeah, I think it starts from creating a relationship. So Sam and I were really for to meet through, actually an opportunity I had through gender equality was how it started. So I was doing work in the nonprofit space for Young United nations women. I was very fortunate.

Holly Ransom

The governor general invited me to give a speech on the 100th anniversary of International Women's Day. And at the event, I think I was the only young person and Sam was probably the only bloke. And we just started talking and we had a whole conversation around mentoring and women in leadership and the state of business. I actually didn't know who he was at the time. I was really embarrassed because I did grow up in Western Australia and, like, you should know who Sam Walsh was in WA.

So he gave me his business card. At the end of this conversation, I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I didn't know who that was. But it was just this really genuine, honest conversation. And we connected a couple of times at similar sorts of events, actually, because Sam had one of the great benefits of working for a leader like Sam was. He was absolutely passionate about the role that business plays in society.

And so he was very involved in. In fact, he's still on boards now in the indigenous space. He's still very involved in all manner of things to do with mental health, very involved in his community of faith, all this sort of stuff. He was very active. And so there was an alignment for us in the sense of I was working in a lot of the issues that he cared a lot about.

And so his ability to come in and add value to some of his work in that regard was he saw, obviously, a huge opportunity to challenge and extend me in a world of business that I, up to that point and had absolutely no exposure to, and to learn the ropes from someone who was obviously very good from a commercial standpoint. So the thing I would say is, it starts from building a relationship. I never went to Sam seeking a job. I went to Sam wanting to learn. And I was curious about how he put two and two together and why he'd made certain decisions.

And I was interested in offering my opinion where it was welcome on certain parts of the things he was doing that I might be able to offer a counter view on, or a different perspective. And I'm very grateful. He's been an unbelievable presence in my life. He's a phenomenal mentor. But the thing I would say is there's no kind of getting around the piece of sort of.

It starts from an organic relationship. And I think if I was thinking to the point of the person asking the question, I'd think about the sorts of people that you want to learn from, and I'd be trying to create opportunities to be in the same room for them. Where? Room as. I'm sorry, where?

Even if it's as simple as at that event, in the margins, you get to ask them one or two questions over a cup of coffee at the end of proceedings, that's awesome. If you then get to catch up with them at some point, one on one, for a conversation, that's awesome. And if it never even leads to an opportunity to work for them, but you get the opportunity to learn from them, that's awesome. And those are the sorts of people, too, who, when they understand more about you and what you want to do, are also capable of helping you join dots to doors that you might not have realized were the ones you should have been pushing. So they might say, actually, if that's what you want to do, you shouldn't come and work for me.

You shouldn't be creating opportunity in this organization, you should be heading over there and doing it with that. That makes a lot more sense. So I think it's two things. It's starting to build those relationships, and then it's being open and vulnerable enough in a humble way with your goals. It's not going and saying, hey, I want this job, and you're the person that can do it.

How about it? It's saying, I've got a real desire to have a career in this sort of industry and make this sort of impact. If you. What advice have you got for me? If you were me, what would you do?

Who should I be talking to that you might know? So asking for, asking the right questions, I think, is the thing I encourage people to think about. Yeah, I'm really glad you mentioned that because I think just me talking to a lot of young people, I think networking has become very transactional, because I think you're saying it's very value added. If it's done well, it's relationship based. And it's on give, not take.

Right? Yeah, completely agree with that. Now, question here, Holly, question from me, and hopefully you're comfortable sharing this. I noticed on your instagram, I think your partner is the former soccer player of australian captain. What have you learned from them that inspires you today?

I think around, particularly around leadership. I mean, having a soccer player and a captain would be inspiring in itself. How has that kind of changed your personal view on your worldview? And is that someone who also questions you when you maybe are saying the wrong thing back to the other? Oh, definitely.

Holly Ransom

And I love that about Kate. I think we have very different views of the world in the sense of. And this is just kind of that. I'm an extrovert. She's an intro, very much kind of a processor and a kind of a considered thinker, whereas I'm probably a little bit more like, ready, fire, aim.

So it's really interesting, particularly having the opportunity to work on some projects together. At the moment, I really enjoy the learning curve that comes from the different approaches that we take and the different ways that. That we see things. And the lessons I learned from debriefing things afterwards, it gives me a continual opportunity to refine and reflect and become a more considerate person and considerate leader. Definitely.

She continuously inspires me, too. I mean, she still works in the game and has a really significant role in shaping that industry. And I think her commitment, her humility, her selflessness to her stoicism in her ability to continually just go back and go again, athletes. It's really interesting and it's really only since being with her that I've gotten the opportunity to consider it. It's a really cutthroat world that they live in, where you sort of live and die by a coach's selection and you're sort of involved in something that is the consumption of your world for a period of time and then you've got to reinvent yourself.

And I think even the courage of that at whatever point an athlete's career ends, it sort of is like a second life type of thing. Because up until that point, the dedication and focus required sort of means everything else has to fade away to play it at certainly the level that people representing their national team do. And so the courage then to face into what next and the incredible way that she's shaped her life post that I think is really admirable as well. So much I can't even begin to surmise sort of everything that I have learned and continue to learn, but I feel really grateful to be with someone where there's that alignment of learning and curiosity and that want to kind of have impact. And she's very much doing that on behalf of athletes around the world now in the work she does in sort of the players union movement and, yeah, even the issues that exposes me to and the way that they deliberate and think through them, I'm constantly learning.

Amazing. That actually reminds me of a thought I had whilst reading your book where I think you've had, you've spoken to business leaders, public leaders, community leaders, sports leaders in different facets, right? Whether it's in a community as small as Perth or a country the size of the US, what has been your learnings there? I think because they're all different learnings, but, and you talk about in your book around leadership being bigger than just an army general or a sports captain. Do you think your view of leadership has evolved over the years and will continue to evolve as you meet more of these leaders from different parts of society?

Holly Ransom

Yeah, definitely. I think one of the things that was really, if I thought about back ten years ago, what was a belief I had about leadership that I don't hold anymore. I think I was convinced at the time that leadership was this thing where at some point in your life someone would dangle the leadership keys in front of you and kind of give you permission to lead. And I think the biggest thing I would have learnt over that journey is that moment doesn't happen. You've got to assert yourself.

You've got to put yourself out there to lead, and you don't need anyone's permission to do it. And I think often we confuse kind of leadership and authority in that regard when we kind of frame it in that way. The thing I really was passionate about in writing the book, I mean, two things. One was, I desperately want to disrupt the role models that we hold up as examples of leadership, because, to your point, it's not an incredibly diverse library to date. It's typically kind of elite sport coaches or military generals or leaders from Silicon Valley or from the Fortune 500 Us.

And as you and I both know, leadership looks different to that on a day to day basis as we see it showing up in our communities, and we see it showing up in the people that we interact with. But also, leadership desperately needs to look different to that, because part of why we are where we are right now and why we're failing to get real change and progress on problems is because we've got people sitting around the table who created the problem, who are now trying to solve it. The definition of insanity, as Einstein put it, is thinking we can keep doing the same thing over and get a different result. So we desperately need new perspectives. Cultural, generational, gender, sexual orientation, sectoral background, cognitive diversity is in desperate need around almost every decision making table I see around the world.

So, for me, the book's got 60 plus case studies. There's 42 different sectors. There's equal gender representation, leaders in their twenties, there's leaders in their eighties, and everything in between. And it was a real, want to say, leadership can look like any of this and then some. Because I think one of the things that happens when we lionize certain individuals and hold up only certain examples of what leadership looks like is a lot of people go, oh, okay.

I wasn't born with the skills, the traits, the gender that allow me to be a leader because I don't look like that or I don't leave that like that. Therefore, I'm not a leader. And I think we see a lot of people checking out. And the big thing that I wanted to say is, I think each and every person is a leader. I 100% believe that leaders are made, not born.

People are born with traits that might predicate them more towards leadership. But we're social beings. This stuff is socialized in or out of us. And so it's that want to, I guess, everyone reclaiming their agency and realizing you've all got a sphere of influence, whether that's your household, whether it's your partner, whether it's your best friend, whether it's your team at work, whether you're running a company or you're involved in a community group, you name it. The role that you play in that is leadership.

The way that you show up the people in your lives is leadership. So let's start taking some more responsibility on that and go, we've all got a responsibility to be the change that we want to see in the world, not to kind of palm that off and go, that's above my pay grade, that's someone else's job, etcetera. Because the problems we're facing right now as a global community, they need an extraordinary collective effort of people leading in all different ways in all different parts of our society. And yes, it does include the people at the top. We've got a journey to go to get that groundswell of momentum on some of them, to see things differently and drive a new perspective.

But that only starts if we start being the change. And I think that's one of the interesting observations. Like, we often forget that ultimately, companies, communities, countries are a collection of individuals. So it has to start with us, because ultimately, that's where everything starts. There's no team without a collection of us.

There's no country community without a whole collection of us. And so that idea that what we do doesn't matter, I think we've got to entirely reframe, because if we've got everyone thinking like that, who's surprised? We've got the level of apathy and distrust and disillusionment that we do right now. So reclaim that agency by providing more examples of different types of leadership and different people leaping in in the hope that more people might go, oh, if they can, I can. And then making the book as pragmatic as I could, so that every idea in the book has suggestions on how you can action it tomorrow if you want to give it a go, because I think that's really important, too.

Like, it's great to read this sort of stuff, but if we go, yeah, cool. But if I don't run a billion dollar company, or if I don't leader a country, how do I put this into practice? I don't have a whole team that can go away and do this for me. So I've really tried to focus on ideas and breaking things down to a point where everybody can have a go at. That's music to my ears, Holly, because this show is about reimagining a high flyer.

And I think, to your point, everyone can be a high flyer in their own way. They're adding value and solving problems. So, yeah, I think hopefully for listeners listening, that is some inspiration to just try, just try, and something can happen now into your hustle, Holly, and specifically your work. I think the question I love asking is, how would you describe your recent and current roles? Instead of limiting it to a LinkedIn headline, how would you describe them?

What to you is the objectives and deliverables of your roles? Yeah, well, I'm really, I have a portfolio career, as you said. So in my kind of work that I do with my consulting firm and kind of moderating and speaking, I'm passionate about the questions that we ask about the world around us, because I believe it's only through asking better questions we can get better answers. And I love convening conversations and breaking through complexity in a way that empowers people in a way that kind of creates this accessibility of understanding, a way forward or an action step or something like that. So we do a lot of work in leadership development.

Holly Ransom

We do a lot of work in strategy. And overall, I'm passionate about democratizing access to leadership development. I sort of believe that it should be a universal, basic right that everyone has access to the ideas and the tools that can help them be the best version of themselves and to have the impact that they want to have in this world. And all too often, that's behind a paywall or a network wall or a timewall. If you haven't got six months, you haven't got x number of $1,000, haven't got the ability to get into a particular institution, then you just don't get to do any of that sort of stuff, or that's not in the path for you.

And I think that's all too unfair. The quote that's often said where it's sort of like the future's already here, it's just unevenly distributed. I'd argue that part of it is we don't necessarily have the tools that are match fit for 2021. And part of what I wanted to do with the book is sort of suggesting a new set of tools that leaders, I think, need for this day and age with the demands that are on them in this moment in time. But the second thing was, I guess, wanting to explore that a little bit, give people the opportunity to get out and try leadership development on for size and make it kind of far more accessible and start a conversation about it.

And now I'm playing with all manner of ideas for how we help people close the implementation gap. So a book is one thing but it doesn't necessarily gear itself to everyone putting into action. So I'm continually playing with ideas and approaches that can help reinvent the way that we do learning and unlearning in this space. And then I'm very fortunate to have a portfolio career where I get to serve as a director on a number of boards, including Port Adelaide Football Club and a number of kind of private companies. And I really enjoy the work that I do as a director, and I feel like it gives me another perspective on issues in another way to make a contribution to organizations.

So I've always been involved in the nonprofit sector as a director, and then for the last probably five or six years as a private company director too. And yeah, that's the mix of things I do, but it really depends on who I'm asking and why. They're curious as to how I'd answer that question, because that's one of the joys of a portfolio career, is there's different things you can choose to talk about or focus on at any given moment. And as a follow up to that Hollywood, what do you think you've done differently to your peers that's helped you get to these positions and succeed? Back to that actionable insight, is there one or two insights you can share with listeners that you've done, whether it's courses or mentors or go to Harvard, that's helped you get to these positions and succeed?

I think it more boils down to habits, and I think a lot of my peers do this stuff too, but the ones that I sort of really admire, and I guess I look up to myself are the people who are really disciplined around every day. What am I working towards every day? How am I taking a step towards what it is that I want to achieve next? So they're really good, I think, at chunking down the goals and dreams that they've got and understanding that dreams don't work unless you do. So unless you are actually going to work every day and putting 1ft in front of the other, this stuff doesn't materialize and miraculously appear.

And I think they're very good at probably the thing they've taught me over the journey too, and I certainly didn't get this right. First go was how to do that sustainably. So there needs to be a practice of self care and nourishment that sits alongside that. If it's just kind of working till you dry, that's not going to last me anytime soon, particularly at the pace that society operates now. So I think probably the other thing, too, is what's your practice of recharging, re energizing, looking after yourself?

What is it that's part of every day that's allowing you to be the best version of you in all order, that you can go and be the best version of yourself in any interaction you're having with anyone else. And so they're probably the two things I'd say. It's that discipline of kind of. Everyone's got the same number of hours in the day. What are you putting yours towards today?

And how's that moving towards the goals you've set for yourself, not the goals anyone else has set for you, or not what anyone else thinks you should do. And I think that second thing of your kind of practice, whatever it is, for some people it's meditating. For me, it's exercise. For some people, it's journaling. What is it that allows you to be in the best headspace, to go and do what you want to do in the world?

Now, onto the final sprint. Ollie. And I know you've done an Ironman, so hopefully I can keep up some rapid fire questions. What's one investment you've made that you consider the best in your life? And it doesn't have to be financial?

Holly Ransom

Investing in myself, courses in self development. One thing you'd like to learn in the next six months? I'm currently learning Spanish and I would love to get better at it. So I'd love to be conversational, like in Spanish. I'm not quite there yet.

One quote or person that inspires you. Favorite quote is one on the background of my computer. Never doubt that a group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead, now that you're author, is.

There one book you would give to others that you think is a great read? Aside from my own, which is a cop out, the one that's hit me the most recently, actually, there'd be two. If you're interested in self development, I would go with Glennon Doyle and untamed. Really powerful. If you're going for kind of a take on business in the world, I'd go with Rebecca Henderson's reimagining capitalism.

And last one. What's one thing you've enjoyed over the last month, particularly as Melbourne's been in lockdown? That's a good question. I would say excuses to go running around the gorgeous Yarra Bend, my better half. So that's probably been the highlight that's kept us sane during this never ending lockdown.

Well, that's the finish line. Holly, thank you so much for coming on. I wanted to do this forever, so thank you and keep in touch. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

I hope you took away some actionable insights and learnings from this conversation to apply to your lives and be 1% better every day. And I look forward to sharing the. Next episode with you. Stay tuned. Tuned.

Vidi Tagawal

Tuned.

Holly Ransom

Tuned.