The Path to Financial Freedom No One Talks About

Ed Mylett
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Vivian Tu
This is the Ed Milan show. Welcome back to the show, everybody. I'm fired up about today because we're going to talk about money and you having more, accumulating more, making more, and why it matters. It's not a topic that's discussed enough in polite society, and it should be. And my guest today is immensely qualified to discuss this topic.

Ed Mylett
I love her work. She as an influencer, you know her as your rich BFF, but I know her as Vivian, too. And Vivian is a multifaceted financial expert. She's an entrepreneur, and she used to be a Wall street trader. So she's got a background in doing this.

But she takes complicated stuff financial and breaks it down simply so that people like you and I can understand it. She's got a crazy good book out called Rich Af, the winning money mindset that will change your life. And I cannot wait to jump into all this stuff with her. So, Vivian, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, you are awesome. So, and this topic, like, almost no one talks about, I said it in the intro, so I want to go all over the place. We're going to go from, like, general concepts to some specific stuff, too. But I decided when we booked you that, no pun intended, but I wanted to max out this time for everybody. And the other reason I love your work, too, I should just say, is whether you're a very young person who's in like your late teens, even early twenties, her content applies to you.

And if you're in your fifties and sixties and nearing retirement, it does as well. So we're going to go all over the place here today, guys. So let me ask you this first. Someone's listening to this, they go, I want to be the first millionaire in my family. Let's just start there.

I want to be the first millionaire in my family. What would you say to that person who says, I want that badly? You need to strip. And then they're like, oh, I didn't realize this was that kind of guest. No.

Vivian Tu
So strip is an acronym. That I've put together that I find to be really helpful in remembering the steps you need to take. So, first and foremost, s stands for savings. You gotta have that emergency fund. And I say that as someone who needed mine.

I was 25, and I was making a sandwich, cutting a piece of baguette. The bread knife slipped, hit my finger, and I saw a piece of my hand fall onto the counter. Had to go to the ER, and the bill was $16,000. And even after insurance, and I had really good insurance, I still owed $1,300, which was a lot of money for a young person. And so I always say, make sure you have three to six months of living expenses set aside in a high yield savings account, because that is going to let your emergency fund, essentially, roughly keep up with inflation so that it's not being eaten away at, but you have your little nest egg in case something happens.

Then we move on to t, which stands for total debt. Uh, I am an aries, so I'm very, very impatient, and I like to do things fast and I like to do things very efficiently. So when it comes to total debt, I rank all of my debt from highest to lowest interest rate. You make the minimum payment across everything, but then any additional money you have for debt pay down, you're going to put towards the debt with the highest interest rate, and then you'll pay it down. That order.

This essentially just lets you pay the least amount in interest and get your debt slashed in the fastest timeframe possible. Next up are retirement. I am a little bit further from retirement than I'm sure Ed might be, but listen, I think we should all be thinking about it, because I want to one day be able to kick back my feet and just chill. And I think many of us want that. And some of the easiest things we can do to take advantage of tax benefits is to contribute to our employer sponsored retirement accounts as well as our individual retirement accounts.

So at work, that's going to be something like a TSP. It's typically got some weirdo name that doesn't make any sense, but leverage that oftentimes employers will match your contribution. So you do get some free money. And then with an IRA or a Roth IRA, that is your individual retirement account. But contribute to both of these because it is going to give you tax benefits and help you save and invest for the future.

And we move into I investing. The mistake that a lot of people make at step r is that they open these accounts, they put cash in, and they're like, alrighty, I'm set, I'm good, I'm invested. No, you are not. When it comes to investing, I always compare it to the grocery store. Would you ever have dollar 50 in your pocket?

Go to the grocery store, do a whole lap around and then leave, and then go home and open the fridge and be like, why don't I have any food? It's like, well, you didn't buy anything. That is how investing is, too. You can't just open the account, you can't just put the cash in. You have to buy stuff.

And when it comes to buying stuff, I recommend target date retirement funds. Potentially, if you're younger, just ETF's that track broader indices. And if you are getting a headache with me saying some of these words, just consider finding a robo advisor. You take a quick quiz about your money goals, what you have, what you earn, how old you are, what type of family environment you want to have, where you want to live, everything about your personality and your money habits. And then they'll spit out a diversified portfolio that you can use.

So it takes all the guesswork out of that investing. And then we move into P, which is plan, because you do not get to have a happily ever after or ride off into the sunset without having a plan and backing into how to get there. And what I encourage people to do is actually calculate their fu number. This is a plan where you envision your perfect year. Where do you live?

What does your family look like? Are you working? What kind of clothes do you wear? How many times do you go on vacation? Do you have pets?

What have you? And then you think about what that would cost for one calendar year. And then you take that number and divide it by 0.04 because that 0.04 represents a very conservative 4% investment return. So once you have this bigger number that you'll get after you do that calculation invested, earning you 4%, you will be able to essentially throw off enough in gains that you can fund your entire lifestyle while you just chill. I love strip, by the way, everybody, we're going to dive into some of the things she just said there.

Ed Mylett
I want to say to some of you, some of this stuff already is a little bit more technical than you're used to. We are going to get above at about 30,000ft in a minute. Well, and some of you are very young listening to this. I just want you to know how cogent that advice was. I started planning for retirement.

This is no joke. When I was 21 years old, I started thinking about it. I built an emergency fund. First thing I did, three to six months set aside, I started to educate myself about money, which we're going to talk about a little bit later, just knowing basic things. So we'll get above this stuff here in a minute.

But before we go, I want to challenge you on one of the things in strip, and I just want to hear your response. I'm not going to tell you that I have an opinion one way or the other, but the notion of retirement plans, 401K, Ira, that's a very commonly recommended piece of advice. Yet more and more, I know you know this, but more and more, there's a contrarian viewpoint about that, which says that you're deferring those taxes probably into a higher tax bracket. That the theory is that you know what you're doing by putting money in. Forget the matching piece for a second.

But if there was no matching, but you know, I'm putting money into a 401k, I'm deferring the taxes now while I'm earning them, because theoretically, when I retire, I'll be in a lower tax bracket. But the truth of the matter is, a lot of people believe taxes are probably going up, not down. So am I deferring some of that money to more taxes and then the idea that I'll need less money in retirement than I do when I'm employed? For most people, that's probably not true. So just wondering that one piece of all of it I've not seen.

You've been asked this on any shows, and I wanted to ask you, do you debate that in your own mind as well about the deferral issue where you may be sticking those, those, uh, those eggs aside for a smaller harvest someday? Because taxes could be higher. Yeah, definitely. And I think that's why a lot of folks are now, and I say folks, a lot of corporations are also offering things like a roth. Four hundred one k.

Vivian Tu
And more and more employees are, are taking advantage because, um, essentially, you know, Ed knows this. But I hope everybody listening can learn this. Traditional investment accounts, typically that are for retirement, allow you to have a tax benefit today and you pay taxes in the future. And to Ed's point, you know, taxes could potentially be much, much higher. And we don't know that.

However, the Roth variety is, you typically do not get a tax benefit today. You pay taxes, you contribute post tax dollars today, but that money is free and clear yours in the future. It is why I am such a huge fan of the backdoor Roth IRA for folks who earn more than the typical income limit for contributions. I think the Roth variety makes a lot of sense, if that is your viewpoint. Ultimately, for me, I am encouraging people to just get started.

I don't want them to debate traditional versus Roth. I don't want them to, like, belabor the decision. Just pick one at the end of the day. Sure. Will one option certainly be better for you than the other?

Yes. But not contributing at all or waiting too long is going to be way worse than picking the wrong variety.

Ed Mylett
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These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. No, you're right. And it's a big thing. Everybody that's listening to this, like, and even you, really young people listening, you got to get started. And I mean, even if it's $20 a month, you're like, I'm not going to get Starbucks four days a week.

I'm just going to start to have habits. I'm a wealthy man because I started the habits young of what a wealthy person did. I mean, probably when I was 21 that year, I may have actually only saved like $200, but all my friends saved nothing. And all of a sudden I had a little mutual fund with a little bit of money in it. And I had an emergency fund set aside and I kind of got addicted to paying myself first and buying things to impress other people, like never or last.

And so there's some real fundamental things here that you talk about, and we'll get into the fu number in a minute, too. I want to talk about that. I think that's cool. But before we do that, real rich people, you say they're really not interested in impressing you with their money. And I want you to discuss that.

Just the mindset of rich people, as opposed to the mindset of middle class or someone who ends up staying poor, a lot of it is habits and mindset. Do you save money? Do you pay yourself first? Do you at least read a little bit or follow an influencer like you that has the topic of money? So it's just in the front of your mind.

Right. But what about that notion of impressing people versus accumulation of assets? Yeah. I mean, I can use myself as a perfect example. When I first moved to New York, I was in my early twenties, graduated college, and I had this fancy job on Wall street.

Vivian Tu
So in theory, some people thought I was a rich person. I was not. I guarantee you I was not. That New York City rent was very expensive, and I was certainly going out on weekends. I was getting drinks with friends.

I was going out to dinner. And the amount of money I spent on designer goods as a 22 year old was unbelievable. Like, I look back and I, like, choke on the number. And I bought things like a little winter beanie just because it had a little logo on it, or red bottom shoes that, by the way, are so painful. I've worn them once, they hurt so bad.

And a big part of that was wanting to belong, wanting to look the part, wanting to look rich and feel rich and prove to my friends that I had made it, when in reality, that was actually putting me in a worse financial position than had I just been, to your point, setting that money aside, investing it, building up some of those rich habits, and now at 30, you know, I've made quite a lot more money. I have a business that I own. I'm doing very, very well for myself. And it's so funny that now I find myself spending less and less annually as a full, just, you know, a dollar figure than I did back in the day on designer goods. And in fact, not only do I not oftentimes buy designer, sometimes I'll just buy the dupe off of Amazon.

And I had a friend ask me, like, why did you do that? And I said, well, you, you and everybody knows exactly how much money I made. Last year, Forbes reported it. You know, I can afford those. Why should I pay extra when these look exactly the same?

And you couldn't tell anyway? And you thought I had the real thing. Jeff, it's so true. By the way, you're a thousand percent right. The wealthier I got, the less inclined I was to spend money to impress people.

Ed Mylett
And it's actually one of the ways I got wealthy. And I don't mean this critically, by the way, because this is not completely true, what I'm about to say. So I'm couching this under, generally speaking, what I'm about to say, everybody, and no criticism. I have owned Ferraris. I have owned lamborghinis, I've owned Rolls Royces.

I've owned stuff, okay? By and large, now, I just want you all to know this, because I am a rich person. By and large, when I see somebody driving a lambo, do you know what I actually think when I see them? They are not wealthy. Because if they were, they more than likely wouldn't be.

When I see someone with that beanie, and I have two of them that has an lv on it. Cause I thought it looked really cool with my beanie. And I remember when I wore the one the first time in the winter I was playing golf, and a really rich dude, a friend of mine, like, a really rich dude, goes, will you take that crap off your head, please? It's ridiculous, right? And so, in general, when I see someone sort of decked out in stuff, I actually think they're probably broke in debt.

What I think is, I bet they make a lot of money and keep none. That's what I think. That's a general statement. It's not always true. But if you all want to know what a very wealthy person typically thinks.

Like, now, I have spent a lot of money on my homes because I live in them, and I like to have a nice place. I like to feel comfortable and safe and secure and look at beautiful things. So if you consider a home a material thing, I have certainly spent money on it. But I actually believe a home. Unlike most influencers, I think a home can still also be an investment long.

Vivian Tu
Term and an appreciating asset, especially depending on the neighborhood. Say that. Go ahead. You comment on that? Yeah.

So I think, like, there are things that we see as flashy, but there are different levels to this. So when you think about big toys, cars, motorcycles, boats, those are all depreciating assets. A car and a motorcycle or whatever, it loses 10% of a new car's value. As soon as you pull it off the lot, just throw it out the window. Okay.

Within five years, most of these have halved in value. And I'm not talking about the ultra luxury supercar. There's only ten made a year. Those are truly collectors items. I can see those potentially appreciating.

But just like your standard, run of the mill Ferrari or your standard, I know that's, like, so crazy to say, your standard, run of the mill Lambo, but, like, the base model will depreciate. It'll have in value. Whereas typically, with real estate investments, sure, some are a little bit flashy. Maybe you have an indoor Zen garden, you've got a pool, you've got the basketball court, whatever. But, like, oftentimes, real estate continues to appreciate in value.

And on top of that, you know, once you get to your phase of life, there are opportunities to make investments when it comes to real estate, whether that be commercial, whether that be residential. But real estate truly is an asset that oftentimes appreciates. There are going to be better investments than others, but it's not the same as buying a luxury car. And I will say back to your point about that Louis Vuitton hat, I'll also recommend us consider what we are specifically buying from those luxury brands. You'll notice that the very, very wealthy still do like designer goods, but you'll find them wearing the ready to wear that is not logo heavy, that is found in the very back of the store that you need to make an appointment to try on.

Whereas the folks who want to show that they have money are buying the items at the front of the store. Heavy monogram logos, heavy, heavy branding. You are basically a walking billboard. And especially now in, you know, our line of work, I think about it, I'm like, no free press.

I get paid to promote brands. Why would I wear something with a brand's name on it if they weren't paying me and if I truly didn't like it? And so I think there's, there's levels to this thought process. You're allowed to want nice things, but like, there's different types of things people are buying. You're right, you can still like nice things.

Ed Mylett
And I have very wealthy friends who have lamborghinis, but I'm just telling you, general, when I see that, and at this stage of my life, it just gets, when you get silly wealthy, you almost want to conceal it to some extent. Essentially, when I was younger, I wanted to sort of prove I was wealthy even when I wasn't. And this is like, accumulated more stuff. I didn't feel the need, almost embarrassed to do it. So it's just a mindset thing, everybody, it's not a judgment of anybody one way or the other.

How about this one? Earning more. Like, there's got to be an ability to earn money. I mean, we, all day long, we can say, save, save, save. But to some extent, your wealth accumulates, is limited by your ability to earn, right?

And I have been able to earn a significant income in my lifetime. So it wasn't just that I had the blocking and tackling of saving money. I also focused on making more money. Now, I did it through the service of other people. I know it's very, you know, the right thing to say is, hey, just serve enough other people and help them.

That's true, but there's nothing wrong with deciding you want to earn more money. It's almost like, become a thing to be ashamed of in our culture now. And that's crazy to say. I'd like to protect my family better. I'd like to live in a safer neighborhood.

I'd like to get my kids a good education. You shouldn't be ashamed of that if those are your outcomes. So what about earning? Especially someone young, or actually, no, someone middle aged right now saying, hey, I want to change my financial stage in life, and I feel like I'm 42. Yeah, I could put $30 a week aside, but I don't have that much time.

So what about earning? Yeah. This is actually the best piece of advice that my mentor on Wall street ever gave me. She said, you can only save as much as you earn, but you can always earn more money. And I think about it in the concept of, like, do you have any idea how hard it is to cut out $10,000 worth of discretionary expenses out of your life?

Vivian Tu
You don't have Netflix anymore. You're not buying coffee. You're not getting your nails done. You're not seeing your friends. Do you know how common a $10,000 raises?

That is not unheard of. People get those all the time. People get much larger raises than that all the time. And so I think we need to make it a habit of asking for a raise every single year. And I've made content about this, and I'm sure you've seen it.

I get a lot of hate and a lot of flack for this. I say that every single year, you need to ask for a ten to 15% raise. I am not guaranteeing you get ten to 15%, but you need to start negotiations there. And the reason is because right now, inflation is roughly 4% ish. A couple months ago, it was nine.

And that means if you do not get a raise that is commensurate with inflation, this year, you will make less money than you did last year, and the cost of your life is getting so much more expensive. And the tip I have for people who are afraid to ask for that raise, who don't know how, is to make a brag book. So in your inbox, make a little folder, label it like, brag book and the year. And then any time something amazing happens, a client thanks you. An internal team member is like, we couldn't have done it without Ed.

He's so amazing. Like, can't believe you increased revenue by 10%. Yada yada, yada, forward all of those emails into that folder. And then you start asking in the summer. Everybody loves to ask for raises in November and December.

And I'm like, bro, these were set in October, what are you doing? So you start asking in the summer. You make sure that you've had meetings with your manager the entire time to be like, hey, these are my goals for the year. Here's how we're tracking. Oh, by the way, additionally, knowing that I'm on track to hit these goals and seeing the tangible results I'm bringing to this team, I am expecting a raise of XYZ percent, ten to 15% for the job that I've done this year.

And then we do something amazing. We stop talking. Because the very first time I did this myself, I did this incredible presentation about how I deserve more money and I wanted a promotion. And then I said, but if not, that's okay.

Like, viv, why did you just make a whole PowerPoint presentation about why you deserved it and then say, but if not, that's okay. It is not okay. You're making an ask. And so I always encourage people, just please stop talking. You are your own worst enemy at that moment.

Let your boss tell you no. And odds are good they're not going to say no, and they're not going to say yes. They're going to say, I need to go talk to hr about budgets. I need to make sure that you are continuing to track to your goals. But typically it ends up being a maybe.

And then even if you're able to get a raise of eight to 10%, you're going to be in a really healthy spot to outrun inflation and the cost of living increase. Well, you're right. And by the way, if you don't ask, see, by asking, you've at least created a space where it's possible. With not asking, you've created. You've created no such space for it's even possibility, never mind probability.

Ed Mylett
That's number one. Number two, you're so right. Once you've asked, be quiet. My dad used to say to me when I would ask him, you know, if I could, when I was in high school, if I take my girlfriend on a date, hey, dad, you know, got a job, my dad would always say to me, don't sell past the clothes. Yeah, don't sell.

Vivian Tu
Exactly. You already closed me. Shut up. Anything you say after this makes it less likely for it to happen. And what happens is you feel awkward, so you keep talking.

Ed Mylett
The cool part is when you shut up. Now they feel awkward in order to give you an affirmative answer, so you've switched the pressure in the room. Totally great advice. One other thing I want to acknowledge you said earlier, before I asked you about this fu stuff, is you said about forecasting rates of return on your money when you reverse engineer retirement at 4%. And that's the exact number that I use, by the way.

It's the exact number. As I always go, my money at 4% will spit off what interest rate, because I've always felt, and maybe I'm wrong, there have been times where you couldn't get 4% on fixed stuff, even two or three years ago. But by and large, historically, and about fixed income stuff, typically, historically, you're able to get somewhere between that three and 5% type number. So I actually use four on my, on my stack that I want to accumulate for retirement projections. So I totally agree with you on that.

I teach something. This is where I love when we meet in the middle. I always ask everybody, do you know your financial independence number and that your fin number? In other words, what's the amount of money you have to have saved that at, say, three, 4% interest? You could live off that money the rest of your life.

You are now independent financially. 99.9% of people, even folks who have advisors, do not know that number. It's bizarre to me that they have, they own any financial instruments and have no idea what they're trying to work towards or accumulate. It's like running a race with no finish line whatsoever, just to run, but you take it a step better, which is an Fu number. And I don't think enough people, and I don't think enough people think about this.

My fu number has changed over time significantly. But I had an Fu number when I was 25 years old. What's an Fu number? This fu number is very literally how much money you would need to have invested so that you could tell your boss, f you, I'm not going to do it on camera. But, you know, it's interesting, because right now, I would say the vast majority of people we labor, we work for money.

Vivian Tu
You know, I'm not doing this for my health like we are. We're working. And what I think is the iteration of the financial independence or even the fire number is fu. Because oftentimes people who actually hit that number, they don't want to stop working, but they want a different job. And that job may focus more on philanthropic giving.

That job might focus on a passion of theirs, maybe they're very, very passionate about working with animals, which, you know, isn't historically a sector that's paid the big bucks. And so it is important to acknowledge that once you've hit this number and you have it invested, and to your point, in a diversified portfolio of relatively conservative investments, maybe you have part of it in fixed income, part of it still exposed to, you know, the equity markets if you are a little bit further away from retirement. But this allows you to make decisions where money is not a limiting factor. There have been times in my life, in my parents life, that they had to choose jobs that were not the ideal job because we needed money. Because we needed money to live, because we needed money so that I could go to college, because, you know, we needed money to pay our rent in New York City, what have you, you will never have money as a deciding factor ever again because you got the money piece.

Now you decide, do I enjoy this? Does this contribute to my happiness? And that's the power of the FU number. I love the FU number. What about before that, though?

Ed Mylett
So someone's listening to this and they've been told, look, if you never want to feel like you're going to work a day in your life, do something you love every day. Lie. Right. Okay, good. I want to hear what you think about this.

Or, hey, you should not work for money because you'll be miserable. Work at something that you would enjoy only. And I'm just curious your thoughts about that. You just want thumbs down. So I think I know where you're going to go with it.

But what would you say to someone who's like, you know what, I don't make enough money. I like what I do, but I could go do this other thing over there that would pay me a lot more money. Or I'm in college, and I'm going to choose a path that I think I'd love, or should I choose a path where I can make a lot of money? So what's your advice about that? So there is this japanese concept called ikigai.

Vivian Tu
And imagine a quadruple venn diagram with a tiny little sliver in the middle. You are looking for something that you enjoy doing. The world needs you can make money doing, and that actually allows you to be happy. So you are looking for something that's kind of in the middle of all of that. And what is really powerful is that you aren't just looking for something that is a passion project, because another passion of most people's is having a home and eating food at the same time.

And so I say, you know, yes, we should encourage people to find their passions, but if you're, you're not good at it, you're not happy doing it, you're not making money doing it, and the world doesn't need it, don't do it. Because ultimately you want to find something that is a happy medium where you not only have a happy career, but also a happy lifestyle. Because you're not spending a hundred time, 100% of your time at work, you're spending a good portion of your time at home. And is that career choice going to make home very hard for you? Maybe a tool that I love for any of the college students or even parents listening is go to BLS dot Gov.

It's the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and they have an occupational handbook that has literally every job under the sun. And whether you want to be an accountant all the way to a zookeeper, a through Z, you can find that job and it will give you what credentials you need to have that job. What that job as a median, a median salary for that job and then different specifications. So say one of the jobs you're looking at is computer programmer. It'll tell you what a government computer programming job pays a private sector computer programming job, an educational, a healthcare, what have you, and you can actually filter by geographic location as well and see what does someone doing this job in New York City get paid versus someone living in Tulsa, Oklahoma?

And it gives you a good sense of do I want to do all of these things that will certify me and get me to that point to have that job? One, two, is this job something that I'm actually interested in? Because it does a full breakdown of what the job is? And three, will I get paid enough money to live the lifestyle that I want? And I think it's more important than people think because following your passion, I mean, listen, it may work if you have a trust fund to fall back on, but I come from chinese immigrant parents and they were like, once you are done with school, you are on your own.

You are on your own. Do not call us. There is no bailout. You got to figure it out. And so I got the job that I knew was going to pay for the lifestyle I wanted.

I wanted to ball out. I wanted to go to nice dinners, I wanted to have nice things. I knew I wasn't going to be able to go be an english teacher with what I wanted. This show is sponsored by better help. Hey, listen, we're all carrying around some form of stress, big or small, and you don't want to keep things bottled up.

Ed Mylett
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Visit betterhelp.com edshowtoday to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp help.com edshow. Hey, guys, if you need to hire, you need indeed. You know, in all of my businesses, and I've been blessed to have several of them, I've used indeed now for a number of years. And the main reason I do it is if you're like me, I don't want to waste a bunch of time interviewing people that aren't qualified for the positions that I have.

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And maybe sometimes, maybe your passion project isn't your career. Your career is what you do to earn a living. And your passion projects, what you do on the weekends or what you have your fu money. I've spent seasons of my life where I've had to do things that I didn't love to do every single day because it was going to afford me the opportunity to do the things that I love to do every single day. And I don't know that enough of that's not emphasized.

And I think you take criticism for saying it, but I appreciate the fact that you say it because I think there's a lot of validity to it. One thing I noticed about you, for someone who discusses money a lot, I want to ask you about this. You don't discuss entrepreneurship as much as everybody else does. As much you discuss it. But for most people that are talking about money, it is tied to being an entrepreneur 100% of the time, especially on social media.

And you do discuss it, but you discuss jobs at least as much, if not a little bit more. And so that is another unique thing about you. Is that because you don't think most people are cut out to be entrepreneurs that it takes a special type of person? Or is it just like realistically not everybody's going to be one? But why is that the face?

I listen to your stuff closely. You don't talk about entrepreneurship nearly as much as other money oriented people do. Let's say, yeah, I really appreciate you asking that question because I've never been asked it before and I've done quite a few interviews. So you really have done your homework. You know, there are multiple different ways to become financially stable and there are multiple different ways to become millionaires.

Vivian Tu
The easiest way is to just have a job and invest early and often. And frankly, for most people, climbing the ladder of a traditional w two career is the most likely way that they are going to be able to hit that type of financial stability and financial freedom that they want. I think I talk less about entrepreneurship because while I recognize there are many, many success stories, myself included, being one, I find it a little hilarious when people who didn't have money become content creators and then make content about being content creators or entrepreneurship and small business and then make money off of that, because not everyone is going to become an influencer. Not everybody gets to have a small business, and the risk of those failing are so much higher than being responsible with w two income. And this isn't to deter anybody from having a small business or having any of these things.

But I think there's a time and place for everything. For me, I had a full time job, a w two job in digital media sales for a year and three months before I took your rich BFF full time. I was doing it both at once. I was using my nine to five to fund my five to nine. And I am so glad I did that because before I started your rich BFF, I had set aside $100,000 in cash to make sure that I was going to be able to sustain for the following year, even if my business didn't make any money.

And many people don't have that luxury. Entrepreneurship is awesome. It's definitely made for so many people. I don't think it's made for everyone, and I think that's a little bit of a, I would say, hot take because everybody wants to believe that they can do it, but in most cases, you'd be better off just climbing the corporate ladder. I'm glad you talk about it's why I asked you, because I was actually talking to somebody the other day, because I made my money as an entrepreneur, obviously, and I'm a big proponent of it.

Ed Mylett
But I think I surprised the person. I'm trying to remember who it was, but I said, you know, there is another lane. Yeah. And not everybody's cut out for the pressure that comes with being an entrepreneur. The mindset, the emotional burden that you're carrying, the stress that's going to be years and years of it.

Some people are great number twos in a company. Some people are incredibly good at being a support person in their job. And it's not ever discussed about on social media or in the new influencer space that there is another lane. Now, I think the vast majority of people are going to get wealthy, probably have freedom and own their own businesses, but I actually think there's a ton of room, in my opinion, for someone who does exactly the principles you teach, has their act together financially, and maybe even he just has a side hustle that brings in ten or 15 or 20 grand a year, too. Nothing wrong with that.

So I'm glad that I asked you because you would think the only way to get wealthy now is to be an entrepreneur. It's not necessarily true, by the way. You might be an employee and get an equity position as a, as a young employee in a startup. And, you know, there's a whole lot of those stories. Let's, you know, people all the time, you know, a lot of these guys that own NBA teams or families that own NFL teams, some of them were employees at Microsoft yeah.

And had a bunch of equity in a company that went nuts. So this stuff is possible, not just as an entrepreneur. I'm really glad that you talk about that. And you mentioned. Oh, I was going to say you mentioned, like, you know, the real way to become wealthy.

Vivian Tu
It's like, I think we also have to think about how we're defining wealthy. When I think about entrepreneurship, in my mind, it's a barbell, right? There's two segments. There's the folks that really hit it out of the park. We're talking ultimately eight, nine figure, maybe ten figure net worths.

Ed Mylett
Yes. There's also a huge subset of entrepreneurs that go bankrupt, that end up with nothing. Whereas the folks in the other lane of working that job, climbing that ladder, doing a good job, and continuously asking for raises and getting promoted, the odds that they're more so in the middle, upper middle, is much higher. But to your point, if you want to really knock it out of the park, entrepreneurship typically is the way to do it. But by the way, I know where it was.

Now, I want to share the story with you really quick in the audience, because you're right, and I'm a big entrepreneurial oriented person. I hope my children become entrepreneurs. I hope they actually go get jobs first. No, where they learn as they earn or, you know, I don't even care what they earn, but that they take that learning into entrepreneurship. However, I know where I was.

I won't say who, but I was at a friend's restaurant who's owned this restaurant for about 20 years. And a lot of folks that are listening to this, that own restaurants, will tell you, like, you live there. You live there for the most part. For the most part, it's six, seven days a week, 360 days a year. And I had another friend that was in there that makes about 120,000 a year.

And I know the guy that owns the restaurant makes about $120,000 a year. And it was a Friday night. And I said to the person I was with, I said, which of those two people would you rather be in life? Would you rather be the guy who makes $120,000 a year and on a Friday night is out for a nice dinner with his family? Or would you rather be the person who makes $120,000 a year, who is working this Friday night in their restaurant and will be working here next Friday?

And here was interesting. This person was an entrepreneur. They said, I'd actually rather be the restaurant guy. I said, that shocks me. But why?

And he said, because this is his place. This is. You could tell he loves it. He's passionate about the food. It's a family legacy.

I said, you got it. Okay. But I said, is the question not worth at least asking for sure? A lot of people would say, the other guy looks like he's having a better Friday night than the dude who owns the place. So it's worth discussing and evaluating everybody, your pathway.

And she's one of the only people that sort of takes this position. It's kind of a contrarian position. And so I like it a lot. All right. Got a tough one for you.

You're getting married in a couple months. Oh, boy. Okay, you know what I'm going to ask you. Do you believe in prenups? And I'm not asking anything personal, but.

But this is a really common question in this day and age. Um, prenup, when somebody gets married, you're for it or you're not for it. 1000% for the prenup. And you said we didn't have to get personal. But, Ed, we're besties now, so let's get personal.

Vivian Tu
I'm getting one. Okay. Okay. So I think what really frustrates me is, like, the fact that the prenup has been demonized. We see it in pop culture or tv.

It's always the story of one partner is, you know, leaving a katrillionaire, and one partner leaves destitute. They have nothing. They're on the sidewalk with their two little suitcases. It's, like, so sad. That is not actually how prenups work.

Here's the thing. Whether or not you draft your own prenup with your own lawyer, you get a prenup, but the government gets to write it. And I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them. Okay. I don't care who you are.

I'm guessing you likely take a similar view. You're like, I would rather do something and make decisions and have agency in my life, then let somebody else do it. Especially for something as big as this. And prenups are really important because, one, it's a great time to actually get financially naked with your partner. A lot of couples do not talk about money until they are already married.

And it's too damn late. But also, prenups can be the most fair thing on a sunny day, on a day that you and your partner have nothing but love for each other. Sit down. Order a pizza, grab a two liter of soda. If you drink soda, whatever.

And talk about how you feel, there is an equitable split in your assets. And in my case, my partner and I, we met when he was making much more money than I did. And he paid for everything. He took me out to dinner, he paid for vacations. Everything was amazing.

Over the past few years, I have been very lucky. My career has taken off, my business has taken off, and now I make significantly more money and I pay for more things. But ultimately, over the past seven years, we have been a rock solid team. And our prenup is going to state that everything we take into this relationship, we will be splitting as 50 50 partners with a carve out of my business. He will have a 0% equity stake in my business.

I will have a 100% equity stake in my business. Then anything that we make during the period of the marriage, anything, assets, everything, 50 50, except for my business. And if things were to dissolve, we would depart 50 50 on everything except for my business. Two reasons. One, I built this baby myself.

I am keeping every single thing about her. Two, I have to think about myself as an entrepreneur. No agent, no manager. Nobody wants to sign somebody who owns a business that is 50% owned by an ex husband. That is bad business.

You're going to run into things, meddling, scheming, what have you. I wanted to have that fully protected. I've built so much. I don't want that to ever go away. However, dollars are just dollars.

We met in a time when we had peanut, our peanut butter jelly days. He paid for more. Now I pay for more. We're not nickel and diming each other as a couple, but it is important to set these boundaries. And I know the follow up question, I can already see it on your face, is like, well, what if one person makes a ton of money and one person doesn't work?

Or, like, doesn't have money? Yes, I understand. I think, again, on a sunny day, sit down with your partner and make it very clear. Maybe you're saying, hey, I, as a. You know, I as a wife, am happy to be a stay at home parent.

I will forego my career, my potential earnings, to build our home, take care of our family. That is an incredibly challenging task, one, and an incredibly noble thing to do to take care of the home. But you better make sure that you are cut in financially, because I have gotten so many DM's from women that are either in their forties or fifties, and they'll say, I just found out my husband is cheating. He has the career, he has the money. I don't even know the passwords to our bank accounts.

I need to start over. And now I have a 20 year gap in the workforce. All I can get is the entry level job, and that's not going to sustain me. Or I get the message from the 60, 70, maybe sometimes even 80 year old. And the message is, I had a wonderful marriage.

My husband just died, and I don't even know what we have. I don't know what the passwords to anything are. What do I do? And my opinion of the prenup is it's literally just a team huddle. You get to get together, discuss what you have, what you earn, what you owe, what you spend, have it all laid out on the table, and then decide what an equitable split would be.

And that's going to prevent any of these horrible, catastrophic situations because you are both locked in to your financial situation. Everybody needs to know exactly what's going on in their financial situation. You cannot have your partner be your proxy. Everybody needs to be involved. So, good.

Ed Mylett
I do feel close now because not only do I now know that you have a prenup, I know what's in your prenup. So this is actually pretty cool. I think there's some advice. I just want to reiterate. Forget the prenup advice.

You all can decide whether you agree with her on that or not. However, no matter what it is, that sunny day conversation should be happening with your money. Yes. And it doesn't with couples. Get together and talk about your money.

You talk about your kids, you talk about your. Most of you are spending more time planning your vacation this summer than you are your entire financial life. And the second scenario you described is too common, where one of the two does not know the passwords, does not know where anything is at, does not know who their life insurance is with, and that's just not right. You got to have that sunny day conversation. If it's once a quarter, sit out there with that pizza or whatever you're doing and just talk for an hour or two about money, about savings, and get on the same page.

Nothing's worse than one's a spender, one's a saver, one's got these goals, the other. So it's such good advice to have these conversations, and I'm really grateful that you phrase it the way you do. EBay Motors is here for the ride. Remember when you first saw the potential? Then through some elbow grease, fresh installs, and a whole lot of love, you transformed 100,000 miles and a full body full of rust into a drive that's all your own with over 122 million parts for your number one ride or die.

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I'll throw three things at you. Give me your thoughts on all three. Okay, places to say index ETF's real estate crypto. Okay, what would you say to those three things? Index funds ETF's big fan.

Vivian Tu
I think this is a way better solution than trying to stock pick because I saw hedge funds blow up all the time because they picked wrong real estate. I am a fan. However, I do think renting has been really demonized, and right now it is cheaper to rent than buy in 70% of all us markets. So please don't think that if you don't feel like you want to own a home or can't afford a home that you don't get to be financially successful. It is not an absolute end all, be all.

If real estate is part of your investment strategy, great. If not, you can keep renting, continue investing in the stock market. You're still going to be okay. And crypto, I have like a very middle of the fairway take. It is an okay thing to be investing in, but it cannot be the only thing you're investing in.

When it comes to crypto, I recommend it be anywhere potentially between zero to 5% of your portfolio. This is because crypto is incredibly volatile, likely going to see some more regulation coming in the future, and you don't know how that's going to impact you. And frankly, before you even get to the crypto step, there's a ton of other stuff that is going to be more lucrative, have better tax benefits, and be more impactful to your financial improvement than buying random crypto. So good. By the way, this is a great conversation.

Ed Mylett
What I like about it is I already know there's a few things you've said not everybody's going to agree with which, and I like that. That means we're having a healthy, spirited conversation about a really sensitive topic. And, and you and I just vibe. And we do vibe, right? Because I think one of the reasons we vibe is it's a topic that's important to both of us.

But there's another reason we vibe, which is my next question. You have the two. There's three things I wanted my children to leave my home with, if they could have it, and one I would call, like, their faith, their morals, their ethics, which to me, wrapped in that developed confidence, that element of their life. The second element I wanted them to have was an extraordinary ability to communicate. To communicate.

And the third is a real understanding of keeping themselves safe in the world. And one of those things is understanding money. And you have all three of those things, but one of them that is so obvious with you. You have an incredible ability to communicate. And I wonder if you just talk about people, wonder, like, what should I be focusing on?

And there's a lot of this. I'm healing myself. I'm overcoming trauma. I'm working on my confidence, my worthiness level. All that stuff is awesome in personal development, I'm getting more fit.

I cold plunge, I drink water, I meditate. All that stuff's awesome, right? I mean, I'm. I've done shows on all of it. I've written books about it.

But what's not talked a lot about to get you through life? This life will be really difficult if you can't communicate well, really difficult if you don't have personal skills, verbal, written, some type of ability to communicate, and an understanding about the currency that moves the world, which is money. So just talk about those things. And you have to acknowledge those are two extraordinary things about you. Humility aside, it's got to be things you've worked on.

And how important do you think it is that people work on those things? You know, I think communication is so critically important. And to your point, I don't think I'm smarter, faster, better, stronger than most other people. I am a much better communicator, and I know this, and it stems from a very unique experience that I had as a child. My parents are chinese immigrants.

Vivian Tu
They came to America in their early twenties. They started their careers. English is their second language. And to this day, my parents can speak English, but it's certainly not something that they're confident in doing. And growing up, I watched so many experiences and so many times them be taken advantage of, then be spoken down to them, be mistreated for their lack of ability to do so, to communicate effectively.

And as you know, like an eight year old, I was the person on the phone with the insurance claims guy trying to figure out what was going on when we would get into a car accident, because my English was better one kind of, like, threw me into the deep end of the pool very quickly. I was like, oh, what is a deductible? I'm googling, trying to figuring out what these things are. But I think it gave me a sense of confidence as well, that nothing in my life was ever going to be handed to me. I could not ask my parents for help writing that five paragraph essay at school because their English was worse than mine.

And I could not help. They could not help me with the reading portion of the sat because they didn't know what that word meant. I had to figure out what that word meant. And I would say, I probably have a lot more reps under my belt of effective communication out of necessity than the average person gets because you typically don't start doing that until maybe college, maybe after college. I've been doing it since I was able to speak because my English has always been better than my parents.

And I think knowing that, that was a skill that ultimately allowed me, and I saw it happen a couple times when my mom would get a certain result when she would discuss with someone, and then I would say, give me the phone, and I would pick up and I would say, excuse me, this is exactly what happened. These are my expectations. I really appreciate your help. Thank you so much. Please.

I would, you know, I would speak in a way that I knew what I had to say to get what I wanted. And because of that, we would get that refund or we would, you know, get. Get a fee waived or something would happen. And knowing that there was a positive result, essentially, I, like Pavlov myself into speaking a certain way because when there were certain times that I would come to the phone and be like, why are you yelling at my mom? And blah.

And I was so angry and I was so emotional, I wouldn't get the result I wanted. And over time, I realized when you are polite, when you speak clearly and very, you know, you enunciate, you're patient, you don't take your. Your emotions out on people, but also, you're very clear and demand what you are, just what you deserve, you get what you want. And I've been able to take that into the workplace, practice it there. And now I do this as part of my living.

Ed Mylett
Yeah, you're extraordinary. And it's easier and easier to win in life if you have that skill set because fewer and fewer people have it because of the digital age. They're in the phone so much. Those of you listening to the show or watching it today, one of the things I would recommend. I've never said this on the show.

Whether it's me or someone that's on the show, if you think they're a great communicator, study how they communicate, their phraseology, their pacing, their cadence, their hand gestures, their facial expressions. The more you begin to study not just what someone's saying, but how they say it, which is my obsession. I think you're going to begin to develop a huge advantage in life. All right, first off, I've loved today, I want to ask you one more question, because I thought this stood out to me. And, yeah, I do do my research, especially when it's someone that, as I start researching them, they're interesting.

And then I. I don't. I can't get enough. Right. Like, I wish we could have talked for 3 hours today, but as a woman and as a chinese american woman, I was struck by you saying, I'm really not.

I think I got this right. I'm not so much into equality. I'm into equity. Yeah, right. And I was.

That was. That's a strike. You say it that way to get attention. I know that. But what do you mean when you say that?

That you believe equity is the most important thing as opposed to just equality, and you make a distinction between the two that I think is probably important for your own well being. To clarify, before they take this sound bite out of context. So what do you mean by it? You know, I think about it when it comes to food allergies. So equality is, we all get a kind bar on the plane.

Vivian Tu
I'm allergic to almonds. Okay, so now I don't get a snack on the plane. However, the plane now offers kind bars and cheez its. So I'll get Cheez its. And in that way, we all get a snack.

And I think I feel that way very much when it comes to money, because for so long, it's been very one size fits all. You have to do this. You have to do that. This is the path. Whereas when you're actually thinking about financial education, it's got to look different for different people.

And that clip that you're referencing. I was chatting with a girlfriend, Valyria Lipowski, and she had asked me about how my now fiance and I split our housing costs. And I always tell this story. Back in the day when we first started dating, he made a lot more money. And the apartment that we were renting in New York City, it was $5,000 a month.

And I told him I did not feel comfortable spending $2,500 a month on rent. And he said, well, my office is really close to this apartment. I want to live here. There's a gym in the building. I want all these things.

I will pay, you know, 3200, and you can pick up the 1800. And I followed up, and I was like, are you sure? Are you okay with that? And he said, yes, I love you. You're my partner.

We're building a life together. I don't want you to feel in a financially precarious situation just because I want to live in this nicer building. Because there were certainly buildings that I could have gone halfsies on that were probably not as nice. Probably walk ups, maybe further from the office for him. And because of that, that is completely warped and, you know, warped in a good way.

I will say my view of how people should approach finances, it should not be one size fits all, especially when you're talking to a partner, because why would you want your partner to be in a bad financial position? What we should consider when splitting expenses is, is this a comparable burden on our wallets. Because if I am making twice as much as you are, then I should pay two thirds of the rental, and you should pay one third, because all of our money put into a pile. That's what that looks like. That's the fractional breakout.

And I think, one, it's really worked for us, but two, I think there are a lot of people out there that end up in resentful relationships because they don't have the money talk and they're afraid to, and people will overextend themselves again, trying to keep up with the Joneses. But suddenly the Joneses is your partner. You know what? You're so right. And the equity thing, if you really play that all the way out, it's really a healthier way to have a relationship.

Ed Mylett
Yeah, like certain relationships, maybe I am making more of the money, but you're doing more of the stuff that requires the heavy lifting with the kids or, you know, fixing stuff around the house. It's never equal. It's equity. And sometimes it's two thirds me, one third you. Sometimes it's 90% you, 10% me.

So I actually think that conversation, when it comes to money and relationships overall, is super cogent advice. Today was really good. Like. Like right down the middle. How you do a podcast every second was valuable.

No, seriously, I've done a billion of them. Every second was valuable on a topic that matters. And what I love is you're willing to speak your mind freely, knowing not everyone's going to agree with every single thing you say, yet you feel so strongly about it. And to be candid with you, the more and more I listen to you, the more I'm recommending people follow and listen to you unsolicited. And so that's probably the highest compliment I could give you.

I thought that was great, and I enjoyed it, like, very, very much. So thank you. Of course. Thank you so much for having me. And the next time we're together, I'm buying you dinner.

I would love that. I think that would be equitable. So thank you. I'll take the equity in the dinner. And hey, guys, remember this.

She's your rich BFF on social media, and she's got rich af the book. You could just tell you want to improve your understanding of money. This is your girl right here. You should be following her. You should be listening to her.

And the future is just brighter and brighter. And best of luck with your wedding coming up soon and your prenup that goes with it. Yeah. Thank you so much. All right.

God bless you, everybody. Share this episode take care.

Vivian Tu
This is the Ed and Milan show.

The Path to Financial Freedom No One Talks About

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1: Introduction to Financial Independence

2: The STRIP Method

3: Investing and Retirement

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