8/7/24: Harris/Walz rally explodes, Trump loses mind over it

This episode discusses a politically charged rally featuring Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, contrasting their approach with Donald Trump's reactions and rhetoric.

1. The Harris/Walz rally showcased a vibrant and positive energy that starkly contrasts with the negativity of Trump's campaign.
2. Trump’s reactions to the rally were filled with unfounded accusations and fear-mongering, illustrating his campaign's increasing desperation.
3. The episode underscores the potential shift in voter sentiment, favoring a more hopeful and unified message over divisive rhetoric.
4. There is a significant discussion on the strategic implications of the rally for the upcoming elections, emphasizing the Democrats' potential edge.
5. Pakman highlights the importance of clear and positive messaging in political campaigns, suggesting it could be a decisive factor in the elections.

1: Rally Overview

The segment covers Kamala Harris and Tim Walz’s rally in Philadelphia, focusing on their message of unity and progress. It contrasts this with Trump's rally in the same location, which had significantly lower energy and turnout. David Pakman: "Kamala Harris and Tim Walz filled an arena that Trump recently struggled to fill."

2: Trump's Reaction

This chapter discusses Donald Trump's reaction to the Harris/Walz rally, highlighting his inflammatory and often irrational responses. Donald Trump: "Even the talk about her has driven the stock market down."

3: Analysis of Political Strategies

Pakman analyzes the differing strategies of the Harris/Walz ticket and the Trump campaign, noting the effectiveness of positive messaging over fear-based tactics. David Pakman: "This is exactly the sort of energy we needed."

• Engage with positive political messaging to counteract fear-mongering.
• Stay informed about the factual inaccuracies in political rhetoric.
• Participate in community and political events to support unified and progressive policies.
• Use social media platforms to spread factual and positive messages.
• Encourage open discussions about political developments to foster a better-informed electorate.

-- On the Show:

-- Brian Tyler Cohen, progressive political commentator and author of the new book "Shameless: Republicans' Deliberate Dysfunction and the Battle to Preserve Democracy," joins David to discuss the book. Get a copy: https://amzn.to/3WS8nkY

-- Kamala Harris and her new running mate Tim Walz hold an explosive rally in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania that completely reinvigorates the campaign

-- The right wing loses its mind over Kamala Harris' selection of Tim Walz as her vice presidential running mate, including Fox News, Donald Trump, Ben Shapiro, Ronny Jackson, and many others

-- Donald Trump seems to have a total mental breakdown over Kamala Harris' selection of Governor Tim Walz as her running mate

-- Donald Trump appears to have the realization that the Kamala Harris and Tim Walz campaign is going far better than his campaign

-- JD Vance speaks at a rarely so poorly planned that images make it look like it was a rally in support of Kamala Harris rather than against her

-- A stark contrast in campaign schedules this week between the Harris/Walz campaign and the Trump/Vance campaign

-- Absolutely deranged caller has a serious episode while leaving David a voicemail

-- On the Bonus Show: MAGA Mike Johnson says Josh Shapiro was overlooked for VP because he's Jewish, judge rules Google has illegal monopoly on search, the plan to tax the world's wealthiest 3,000 people, much more...

People

Kamala Harris, Tim Walz, Donald Trump

Companies

None

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

None

David Pakman
There is a new energy among the Democratic Party today. Kamala Harris and her new running mate, Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, holding an explosive rally in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania yesterday. And it has maga in a panic. It has republicans running scared. This is not hyperbole, not a joke, folks. To quote President Joe Biden, we are going to lay it all out. And the most important sort of takeaway for me is listen. We remember this level of excitement when Barack Obama became a candidate. The excitement does not get you a successful presidential term. They are two different things. You can have an extraordinarily excited electorate and generate enthusiasm that we haven't seen for years, and then your presidency can flop after you win. They are two different things. And right now, all we are evaluating is the energy and the positivity of the Harris Walls message compared to the dystopian, negative, catastrophic and apocalyptic language of the Trump campaign. That's what we're comparing right now. But as far as that goes, we have not seen this sort of positive messaging and energy, both for a long time in american politics. It feels like it has been too, too long. Tim Walls is excellent. Excellent. So here is Kamala Harris and Tim Walls getting on stage in Philadelphia for the first time as a ticket. And just palpable energy, just wild. And this is the same arena that Donald Trump struggled to fill very recently. And bursting at the seams with Kamala Harris and Tim Walls. Kamala Harris introducing Tim Walls and saying she wanted a fighter, she wanted a patriot and she wanted a uniter.

And she believes that that is Tim Walls and the crowd just going wild.

Kamala Harris
So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Since the day, the day that I announced my candidacy, I set out to find a partner who can help build this brighter future, a leader who will help unite our nation and move us forward.

A fighter for the middle class, a patriot who believes, as I do, in the extraordinary promise of America.

A promise, a promise of freedom, opportunity and justice, not just for some, but for all.

So, Pennsylvania, I'm here today because I found such a leader, Governor Tim waltz of the great state of Minnesota.

David Pakman
It is very, very different because of what we've become accustomed to, to hear this level of energy associated with a positive message. Because if you watch the Trump rallies, the only time the crowd gets that excited is either when Trump does his stupid trans weightlifting routine where he goes pretending to lift weights, or when Trump attacks somebody. That's the only way to get the MAGA crowd excited. And here the crowd is excited about a positive message. Here is Kamala Harris introducing Tim Walls. And then we will get to his speech.

Kamala Harris
Tim wall.

Tim Walz
Wow.

Thank you.

David Pakman
Wow.

Tim Walz
Thank you, Philadelphia.

David Pakman
Just an outpouring of support. And I know that there are people who have been saying, you know, this is the same mistake Hillary or Hillary, or Hillary. You know, this gives you an idea of who's saying this stuff. Same mistake Hillary Clinton made in 2016. Another boring milk toast white guy.

I just don't see it that way. Tim Kaine was extremely boring. There's no doubt about it. He inspired nothing.

Tim Walls not only has an extraordinary record as governor, but he really brings it. This guy is aggressive and going right out of the gate. I was stunned that he did this, but Tim Walls went right at JD Vance, even bringing up the couch fiasco. For some of you who don't know, there's been this rumor about JD Vance reportedly having a romantic encounter with a couch. Unclear if there was an ottoman involved or whether it was fully automatic recline or manual recline. We just don't know all the details. But Tim walls going right at it, and Kamala Harris loving it and the crowd loving it. And what a 180. What a 180 from seeing Trump's rally in this same building just, just recently.

Let me make sure I have the right video clip here.

Tim Walz
Like all regular people I grew up with in the heartland, JD studied at Yale, had his career funded by Silicon Valley billionaires.

David Pakman
Right.

Tim Walz
And then wrote a bestseller, trashing that community.

Donald Trump
Come on.

Tim Walz
That's not what middle America is.

And I gotta tell you, I can't wait to debate the guy.

David Pakman
Wait for it.

Tim Walz
That is if he's willing to get off the couch and show up. So let's see what I did there.

David Pakman
Make no mistake, folks, this is. This is not Tim Kaine without hair. That is. That is absolutely the case. Tim walls pointing out during his speech, crime was up under Trump. And that's not even. That's not even including the crimes committed by Trump.

I just love this stuff.

Tim Walz
Now, Donald Trump sees the world a little differently than us.

First of all, he doesn't know the first thing about service.

He doesn't have time for it because he's too busy serving himself again and again and again, again, Trump weakens our economy to strengthen his own hand.

He mocks our laws.

He sows chaos and division.

And that's to say nothing of his record as president.

He froze in the face of the COVID crisis.

He drove our economy into the ground.

And make no mistake, violent crime was up under Donald Trump.

That's not even counting the crimes he committed.

David Pakman
This is.

This is just really good stuff. This is exactly the sort of energy we needed. And I was glad to see governor walls also mention Project 2025, lest anyone forget what is at stake here.

Tim Walz
Well, Donald Trump would damn sure take us backwards. Let's be clear about that.

And don't believe him when he plays dumb. He knows exactly what Project 2025 will do to restrict our freedoms.

David Pakman
And Project 2025, which had very little name recognition six weeks ago, now understood not only for what it is for its existence, but for the existential risk that it presents. Yeah, you may recall that Tim Walls was one of the first people on the. These guys are creepy and weird. And he did bring that up as.

Tim Walz
Well, pointing out just an observation of mine that I.

David Pakman
That I made.

Tim Walz
I just have to say it. You know, it, you feel it. These guys are creepy. And, yes, just weird as hell.

David Pakman
That's what you see.

Tim Walz
That's what you see.

David Pakman
Mixing policy with the rhetoric that I've been wanting to see. And just look at the charisma difference. JD Vance or shady Vance or JV Vance or also, what did Trump call.

Donald Trump
The guy we've endorsed? JP. Right? JD Mandel.

David Pakman
Mandel slash vance, 20 years. Tim Walz's junior. And lacking the energy and completely lacking the charisma. And then this is really good stuff. I would say maybe even the best moment of walls speech, where he says, hey, you know, one of the things that matters is freedom. And freedom is respecting that other people make. May make different decisions than you make.

Tim Walz
Some of us. Some of us in here are old enough to remember.

I see you down there.

I see those old white guys. Some of us are old enough to.

Donald Trump
Remember.

Tim Walz
When it was Republicans who were talking about freedom, right? It turns out now what they meant was the government should be free to invade your doctor's office in Minnesota. We respect our neighbors and their personal choices that they make.

Even if we wouldn't make the same choice for ourselves, there's a golden rule. Mind your own damn business.

David Pakman
This is what we need. This is. Listen, this is an energy we've forgotten about, because, let's be honest, there was not this energy behind Joe Biden. Joe Biden has been a great president. I will give you the list of dozens of important accomplishments of the Biden administration.

But he didn't have this energy. And now it's here with the relatively useful, youthful 60 year olds, Kamala Harris and Tim Walls. I think Kamala Harris may be a few months shy of 60. I actually don't know how old she is. Doesn't matter. But this is an energy that has been forgotten because it's been missing. It's been negative messaging from Trump and just kind of a lack of energy from Biden. And it is here, and it is triggering the right wing in a way that you can't even imagine. And that's what I want to talk about next. Maga is running scared. Right wingers are terrified. Fox News is imploding. Trump is melting down because the Kamala Harris vice presidential pick of Tim Walz continues to show a contrast in energy, a contrast in, uh, policy knowledge, and a contrast in charisma that is very, very bad for the Trump Vance ticket. I'm going to give you some examples from the last 24 hours. Here is former Trump strategist and propagandist Stephen Miller.

He doesn't know what insults to throw at walls. He's terrified.

Stephen Miller
Man is a moron. He is an incompetent, he is a radical, and he is going to turn the entire midwest into a third world state. This is a disaster for America. We have to beat this guy and we have to beat Harris in November.

David Pakman
Does anyone believe that he's. What are you talking about, dude? He even went further to say that the Midwest under Tim Walls will become Mogadishu. Aside from being painfully dumb, there's probably some xenophobic aspect to this, right?

Stephen Miller
He is the biggest booster in the whole country for unlimited refugee resettlement. That means under the Harris Walls plan, they're going to turn the entire Midwest into Mogadishu. That's their plan. That's their policy. I don't think there's a market for that in the United States of America.

David Pakman
You know, I increasingly doubt whether there's a market for this type of dishonesty. Like, I'll be frank, they've always been this dishonest with the fear mongering, but it's feeling like people aren't going to fall for it this time. It just doesn't seem like it's landing, because when you see Harris Walls go out there and deliver a positive message, positive speeches in Philadelphia, outlook outlining an aspirational vision for the country.

And then Stephen Miller's talking about, they're going to turn the Midwest into Mogadishu. I just question whether it's going to work. Kevin McCarthy, former republican speaker of the House. One of their favorite ad hominems is to say people are like Bernie Sanders. And here is what Kevin McCarthy had to say.

Kevin McCarthy
This is the most extreme. This is going from San Francisco to here. You go into Minnesota, the area that even Ronald Reagan could not win.

I mean, this is what's so amazing to me. I served with Tim. We came into Congress together.

He's known for being the Bernie Sanders of Congress.

David Pakman
All right. I mean, that doesn't sound too bad. Too bad to me. Again, I don't know. You know, the people that will heal, he'll hear Bernie and say, I'm out are already not voting for Kamala Harris. So I just don't know that that's really going to move the needle. Let's briefly go back to Stephen Miller in another interview where he referred to Tim Walls as the Jack Kevorkian for America.

Stephen Miller
Look, what's happening here is very important to understand this man. They call him Tampon. Tim is a full blown radical left communist. He is less of Bernie Sanders. He is left of Rachel Maddow. He is left of Ilan Omar. He is left of AOC.

But the democratic party believes that if they wrap up those odious, insane policies, tampons for boys, castrating young children, open borders, unlimited refugee resettlement, they believe if they put this wrapper of Tim walls on those policies with this fake smuggest smile, his fake, phony, non existent charm, that if they put that wrapper on it, that Americans will somehow vote to commit suicide. Tim Wells job is to be the Jack Kevorkian for America. His job is to be the assisted suicide doctor, to lean over charmingly by the bedside of America and to give it a fatal injection.

David Pakman
I don't think this is landing. I want to hear from you. Is, is this stuff going to inspire anyone to go out and vote Trump? I struggle to see it. And then finally, you know that they're not doing well. When Ben Shapiro seems to be this stressed out.

Ben Shapiro
If you go back far enough, he was a high school football coach and don't, you know, he's a teacher and a high school football. He's basically Mister Feeney, but more athletic. He's like Ed Asner, avuncular, moderate. Just one of the boys, you know, a guy who can crack a beer and can shoot a rifle, but is also really, really in favor of gun control, entrancing the kids. That's basically the pitch in favor of Tim walls. So she does this routine. These rallies are incredibly well choreographed. I will say that they are very well choreographed. She calls for a chance and a chant goes up. First democratic rally I've seen for a while where people start actually cheering USA. And why are they cheering USA? Because she says, what an amazing country this is what an incredible country, where a person like me, middle class person, or Tim Walls, middle class person, can become the president and vice president of the United States. Now, I agree with that. But she doesn't agree with that. She believes that America is systemically racist. So does Tim walls.

David Pakman
They're in a panic. They are in. They are so scared. And reality is starting to sink in that the message of Trump with the apocalyptic music and Trump complaining about how planes are stuck on the tarmac and never leave and all of this crazy stuff, it's not landing. The crowds leave while Trump speaks and sometimes sleep, whereas the crowds here with Harris and walls, after years of hearing how there was no energy and the democratic candidates couldn't fill an arena, it has changed and they are in a panic now. I've deliberately not told you how Trump is reacting to all of this. Let's deal with that after this short break.

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Apparently when you do that. Join pacman.com is the place to sign up. Donald Trump seemingly mentally destroyed by the boundless energy behind the Harris Walls ticket. And Trump is stuck with this uncharismatic, low energy guy who just wants to sit on the couch, for lack of a better term. JD Vance Trump's losing his mind Trump gave an interview this morning on Fox and Friends, and not only was it riddled with some of the usual hits from Trump, he has had to delude himself in order to feel better about what is happening with this Harris Walls campaign. And he wants us to believe that the reason the stock market was down last week and Monday is because of the expectation that Kamala Harris might be president. There's a little problem with what he says, though. I'll tell you in a moment. I know some of you suspect what that problem is.

Donald Trump
Even the talk about her has driven the stock market down. Yeah, you know when the stock market goes down, when you see it go down, that's because she gets a decent poll number. She gets bounces at a poll, the market goes down, the stock market will collapse like in 1929 if Trump has.

David Pakman
Been talking about this stuff for years. Trump told us in 2020 that if Joe Biden wins, the stock market will collapse like 1929. And yet we have had dozens of all time historic stock market highs. But that gets us to this year, this year, when the stock market continued to climb and climb and climb. Trump would say, you know why it's happening? It's not because of Joe Biden. It's because there's an expectation that I, Trump, will win, and that's driving the stock market up. Well, Thursday, Friday and Monday, we had some significant stock market declines. Trump's argument is that it's because Kamala Harris got a good poll number. People said, oh, my God, she might win. And that's terrible for the economy. Sell, sell, sell.

The only problem with that argument is that yesterday and today, the stock market is doing really well. And Kamala Harris got even better poll numbers yesterday. Harris got for the first time a lead in the national average of polls and the stock market. But Dow Jones Industrial average up about 400 points today. Kamala Harris got even better polling for the first time. We'll look at it later tomorrow, something like that.

And she, again, she got better polling. And again, as of this recording, the Dow Jones industrial average is up about another 450 points. So you all know that this doesn't make sense. It never made sense. But it's all Trump has to keep himself even functional as everything is crumbling around him. And of course, the Fox and friends, you know, the, the hosts of Fox and Friends just sit there on their couch and let Trump say whatever he wants, even though it's obviously untrue. Then the topic of debates came up. Is Trump going to debate or isn't he going to debate? And Trump says, I have the power to do whatever I want with the debates.

Donald Trump
Speaker one no, but I can tell you, every network loves me very much right now. They love me very much. I've never been so loved by CB's and by ABC fake News, so. And by NBC and by NBC. No, they're all in love with me now. So that, you know, I say yes because it's up to me, obviously. Also, the most important thing is we get debate. I think debates are very important, and I think she'll be exposed.

David Pakman
Speaker one, understand how he's not addressing. So are you bailing on the debate that you agreed to? That's the real question here.

Donald Trump
Just like Biden was exposed. Nobody knew Biden Washington that bad. And then he was exposed during the debate. And they tried to have a series of comebacks after that, and they didn't work out too well. And they viciously overthrew him. I mean, he was overthrown in it, using, using every trick in the book. They overthrew him. It was, it was pretty amazing, actually, to watch.

David Pakman
I want to come back to the debate just, just to close this up. You're in litigation with George Stephanopoulos on ABC, so there's a right. And the judge says, yeah, this is good. Luce going to go forward.

Kevin McCarthy
So how could you go on ABC.

David Pakman
Especially if he's going to be one of the moderators? Yeah, this is a very stupid question because Trump was already in litigation with Stephanopoulos and ABC when he first agreed to the debate. So it's a nonsense question. Trump then, you know, when all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Trump pulling out that the country will become communist immediately, if not sooner, sooner than immediately. It might even happen. It might happen yesterday if Harris Walls become president and vice president. And Trump also attacking walls for being, quote, very heavy into transgender. He's heavy. Very heavy.

JD Vance
We know what Kamala Harris record is and we know what his record is, and they are extremely progressive.

David Pakman
Talk about how you're going to handle that. Sounds good.

JD Vance
On the campaign trail.

David Pakman
Will you just really hone in on.

JD Vance
How they voted in the past?

David Pakman
Trump's like, what campaign trail? I'm not doing any campaigning.

Donald Trump
Well, I am. I'm going to be doing that. What he's doing, he wants. If you look at his record with no walls, no security, let everybody in. He's worse than they are. You know, nobody knew how radical left she was, but he's a smarter version of her, if you want to know the truth.

David Pakman
Speaker one, obviously, if you've got a woman who's a person of color and a white dude, even if they're both progressive communists, obviously Trump has to mention that the white guy is smarter.

Donald Trump
He's probably about the same as Bernie Sanders. He's probably more so than Bernie Sanders. She is more so than Bernie Sanders. That's got to be your guide, Bernie Sanders. And it's not a great guide, but this is, there's never been a ticket like this. This is a ticket that would want this country to go communist immediately, if nothing sooner.

David Pakman
Sooner.

Donald Trump
We want no security. We want no anything. He's very heavy into transgender anything. Transgender he thinks is great. And he's not where the country is on anything. Mister President, this is a shocking. Let me tell you, this is a shocking pick. And I think it's very insulting to jewish people and I think it's very insulting to people that want security.

David Pakman
Now you might be saying it's insulting to jewish people. Why the right is spreading a rumor that Josh Shapiro, the jewish governor of Pennsylvania, was not selected because of anti semitism. Now, we're going to talk about this on the bonus show today. And as a jewish person, I will, I will address that. And then Trump finally pulling out from the bag of tricks, the usual, which is that Kamala is a nasty, nasty person.

Donald Trump
The media, outside of you people, of course, but the media is, is. So they're trying to build her up to the next Margaret Thatcher liberal version. And I don't believe it's going to happen. I hear she's hasn't taken one interview. She would never do an interview like this that I can get with any network.

David Pakman
She would never do a softball friendly interview over the phone where Trump's probably sitting in his pajamas in bed while doing it. Why wouldn't she do that?

Donald Trump
She doesn't do interviews because she can't answer questions. I don't know how she debates. I heard she's sort of a nasty person, but not a good, good debater. But we'll see because we'll be debating her, I guess, in the pretty near future. It's going to be announced fairly soon, but.

David Pakman
All right. So Trump, I guess, saying he will be debate debating, he is running scared. He regrets his pick of JD Vance. He doesn't know what to do. He can't even fill the arenas that Kamala Harris is filling. Now let's go to the total meltdown Trump had while the Harris Walls rally was taking place yesterday. Kamala Harris selecting Tim Walls to be her running mate. They held a blockbuster event in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, filling an arena that Trump recently was unable to fill. Extraordinarily high energy Tim walls bringing a level of aggression that I love to see. And throughout the entire thing, Trump was feverishly typing or doing whatever he does with his thumbs on his phone, losing his mind. Trump, as the rally was going on, posting to truth, social quote, this is the most radical left duo in american history. There has never been anything like it and there never will be again. Crazy Kamala is indeed crazy. I hear there is a big movement to bring back crooked Joe. No one is saying that. Trump continuing. What are the chances that crooked Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of the US, whose presidency was unconstitutionally stolen from him by Kamala?

Barack Hussein Obama, Crazy Nancy Pelosi, shifty Adam Schiff, Obama crying Chuck Schumer and others on the lunatic left crashes the DNC and tries to take back the nomination, beginning with challenging me to another debate. He feels that he made a historically tragic mistake by handing over the us presidency, a coup to the people in the world he most hates, and he wants it back now. This is borderline psychosis. Joe Biden, imagine what Trump is suggesting here. He's suggesting that in a fit of unending regret about his decision to step aside, which was followed by the immediate four point swing in national polls, Joe Biden is going to show up at the DNC uninvited, unprovoked, whatever, and demand he be handed back the nomination. It's borderline psychosis to even suggest it. Truck also kind of funny, Trump posting about his interview with Aidan Ross, during which multiple crimes were committed, saying, quote, wow, Aiden Ross interview yesterday exploded, but in a very positive way. Platform set an all time record by far with over 100 million views slash hits. I would love to sit Trump down and say, sir, can you explain to me what a view is and then what a hit is? I would love to know about that. Trump saying congratulations to Aidan and his wonderful mother and father and family, who I had the pleasure to meet. Thank you. Also to Barron Trump for the introduction to your friend, Aidan. Young people are the future of America. Those numbers are really big stuff. And then finally, just kind of like a weird side note, during this total mental breakdown.

Trump posting on Monday night, I'll be doing a major interview with Elon Musk. Details to follow. You know, seeing Elon Musk interviewed is weird enough. Seeing Trump interviewed is weird enough.

Musk interviewing Trump or Trump interviewing Musk?

That's something I'm genuinely looking forward to. Make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel YouTube.com slash, the David Pakman show. It's free. We're pushing towards 2.5 million subscribers. We'll take a very quick break and then the show will continue.

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More of a compliment, really, I would say. Brian, of course, progressive political commentator, youtuber, podcaster. His new book out Tuesday is shameless republicans, deliberate dysfunction and the battle to preserve democracy. So, Brian, before we get into the substance, tell me about your process, because we talked a little bit about this. Last time I saw you. I was working on my book early in the morning, which I think is just a function of having a kid. Yeah, and you talked about 02:00 a.m. sort of stuff. So like just talk a little bit about how long it took you to write this, how much you were writing, your process. Yeah.

I
So the book was, I kind of crashed the book because I didn't start writing really until maybe January, and it was due around March. So it was pretty much like a three month process. And it was every night roughly between 10:00 p.m. when I finally finished working. And like 02:00 a.m. and then I would go to sleep, wake up around eight the next day, and not the most fun process in the world to finish a full day of work doing what we do. Obviously, there's no shortage of content to finish all of that. And then rather than have some semblance of relief because you've just finished your work, you then sit down to write something that's going to be memorialized for the rest of time.

David Pakman
Yeah, without a doubt. So I think, I don't know about you, but I've said if my book doesn't succeed and what that means, I don't yet know. I'm probably not writing a second one. But I don't even want to ask you that question yet because the book's not even out yet. Let's focus on this book for now. And one of the really interesting things you write about in the book is, you know, you talk about on the show and in the book about the hypocrisy that we see from the american right wing. But one of the interesting things that you also mention is that corporate media will often reinforce the double standard that's applied and kind of allow Republicans in the right wing to get away with that double standard rather than to attempt to hold them accountable for it. Talk about how that happens to the.

I
Media is so desperate for acceptance from Republicans that what they'll do is basically bend over backwards to overcompensate for their own coverage. And so the media, the last thing they want to do is be called the liberal media, for example. And so in order to prove that they're not the liberal media, because God forbid they will look at what the Republicans have reported, for example, whether it's Hillary's emails, whether it's the Biden impeachment saga, and they'll make sure to validate that kind of reporting, because if they don't, well, then we, of course, know that Republicans are going to call them the liberal media, and they couldn't possibly have that. And so what we're left with is a right wing that exists to serve as a propaganda arm for Republicans and a left wing that's there basically bolstering and perpetuating stories that are being promoted by the right. And so we're in this huge asymmetry in our media ecosystem where the right is helping Republicans, the left is bolstering the same propaganda for Republicans. And there's this void on the left. And that's why for so long there's been really no proper coverage of what's happening on the left. It's just this, it's just, again, this huge asymmetry that completely benefits the right and leaves the left kind of hanging out to dry.

David Pakman
There's a ton of examples of this. And I've often given the example of on the climate science debate, which I hate to even call it that because I feel like that's even seeding ground to the anti science right. When you turn on, fill in whatever corporate network and you see a debate with one person who simply understands and tells us what the science says and one person who completely ignores what the science says and has a different opinion, and they're put on equal footing. And this is, I think I've talked about the difference between neutrality and objectivity.

I
Right.

David Pakman
You can be objective about what we know about the world without having to create the pretense of neutrality, which I think is kind of what you're getting at here.

I
Yeah, absolutely. I think that there's some perceived obligation to give equal weight to both sides, but the right has learned how to game the refs, and they know that if they say anything, no matter how ridiculous or absurd or baseless or misguided, it'll be given equal deference by the media. And so what we're left with really, is them knowing that they can, they can go as extreme as they possibly want. They can push the goalposts all the way into the parking lot if they want to. And still it'll be treated by the media as if it's just as valid as what's happening on the right with no, with no real concern for the facts surrounding what they just said or the objectivity of it or the reality of the situation we're living in. Republicans just know that, that the media will basically be there to, to transcribe what they've said without much pushback, because again, any pushback would be akin to giving deference to the left. And they don't want to be the liberal media. And so just at least transcribe what they've said and allow the media to be used as a megaphone for what republicans say as opposed to doing what they should be doing, which is journalism, which is actually reporting on it. And if somebody says, to your point, something about climate change that isn't real, you don't have to give both sides. You can just say that something is right or wrong.

David Pakman
Yeah.

You talk in the book about the advantage that the right has with messaging and branding in some areas, and it must have been like eight or ten years ago.

I interviewed George Lakoff, and he's written about this quite a bit. And there are some examples where the simplicity of the right's message is a structural advantage. We've talked about, you know, he talked about tax relief, which at its linguistic core means taxes are a burden and getting rid of them is a relief that kind of puts the left at a disadvantage because our position isn't the opposite, which is, hey, just as many taxes as possible. We want an appropriate level of taxation based to some degree on the needs of the. So it gets more complicated. Talk a little bit about other examples where you find that the right has the branding and messaging advantageous.

I
Well, I think that the Trump administration puts that on full display. You look at the simplicity and the repetition of Donald Trump's messaging. Make America great again. Build the wall, lock her up. I think to his credit, and there's not much I'll give him credit for, but to his credit, he's been very good at basically searing his messages into the cerebral cortexes of his supporters. And I think that there's really something that we can learn it, learn from that. And recently on my channel, I've been doing live streams of all of Kamala Harris's rallies. And people will notice that the beginning of her rallies oftentimes will include a similar iteration of her prosecutor versus felon framing.

And they'll ask me in the chat and they'll say, why is she doing the same thing? Why doesn't she change it up? And my pushback to that is that's a good thing. That shows that Democrats are learning, learning the lessons of repetition. And we should see that and recognize that if we hear the same speech over and over again, that we're not necessarily the target audience for that. We're the ones that are already, if we've watched this multiple times, we're on the team. Our job alongside Kamala Harris is to be able to persuade other Americans who haven't yet heard this speech. And so if she landed on something that's effective, kind of in the same way that Donald Trump landed on something that was effective with build the wall, lock her up, make America great again, if we land on something that's effective, which I would argue prosecutor versus framing absolutely is, then we should recognize that not only is it okay for her to repeat, but we should be encouraging of her repeating her message, because our job alongside her is to reach new people. And so we were initially one of those people who were persuaded by this messaging. And so now we should all be doing the exact same thing and standing alongside her and repeating the same message, because our job is persuasion. And so we have to be able to figure out messaging that works for new people at a rally in Philadelphia, new people at a rally in Atlanta, new people all across the country who are watching this for the first time. So there is a lot to be learned for repetition.

But I think the message for my audience, I think for progressive audiences everywhere, is we should embrace repetition. And when we hear it, we should cheer it on, because that means the Democrats are finally learning the really valuable lessons that repetition might hold.

David Pakman
Yeah. I recently spoke with never Trump Republican Tim Miller and also spoke with George Conway a little bit about the entire messaging kind of question. And they feel that so far, a lot of the messaging from Trump, Vance before, but also I would, I would assume, even since Tim Walls has been selected, is that it's just not really going to sway anybody who is swayable. In other words, when JD Vance gets up there, as he did last week and talked about Kamala Harris wants to take gas stoves and not allow you to eat red meat? Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's been floating around for a while. It sometimes will animate a MAGA rally crowd, but that's not even going to make it into, I hope, anyway, knock on wood, any kind of serious corporate media discussion of like, does she want to take your stove? Does she want to take red meat? So I think it goes to what you're pointing to, which is what is the story that anyone can tell that is not just going to appeal to the base that you already have, but to the voters, probably under 500,000 of them in three to five key swing states? I don't really know what that message is, but I have an instinct that the positive message we're seeing, like what we saw last night at the Harris Walls rally, I hope, Brian, I don't know, but I hope that that will be more influential than Trump's dystopian apocalyptic screeds with the conspiracy music. I don't know, but I hope.

I
Are you saying that in August of 2024, taking away your gas stoves might not be the thing that pushes those last remaining independent voters and swing voters in battleground states over the physical.

David Pakman
Exactly. I mean, when you put it that way, it's like, are there people sitting around in Wisconsin thinking, I'm not sure who I'm going to vote for, but I'm not going to induction cooktop. So I guess I'm voting Trump, it seems obviously not going to work, I hope.

I
I don't think so either. I also don't think, I actually think they're going in the opposite direction. Because you look at the new line of attack that Donald Trump debuted at the National association of Black Journalists conference, and that was this idea that, in fact, Kamala Harris isn't black. And he was denying her biraciality by pretending, I mean, by straight up playing make believe that her being half indian american, half black is not a real thing. And the way that that hurts Donald Trump, especially not just because most of us can see that he's being a clown, but the people that he really needs to reach out to are people of color and young people. People of color very clearly and obviously understand the concept of biraciality. And young people are inherently the most biracial and diverse generation that we've ever had in this country. Just, I mean, inherently, that's how it works. You can only become more, more diverse as the generations continue to filter down. So this notion that he's going to be able to make inroads with those communities by attacking the very humanity and background and heritage of Kamala Harris just kind of flies in the face of logic, really. And as for Kamala Harris and Tim Walls, I think what they're doing is really smart because not only are they looking at the opponent in front of them, and that hearkens back to the prosecutor versus felon framing. But they're very good about looking forward and even saying outright acknowledging the reality of what they're doing and saying it's not just about being anti Donald Trump.

It's about what we can do for you. It's about what the future can hold. It's about a future that has codified abortion rights and reproductive rights and IVF and that's safe for families. It's about a future that protects kids in schools by taking strong action against guns. It's about a future where we can make sure health care is more affordable for all Americans. And on and on. They're good about focusing on what the future actually holds. And so, in effect, they're basically making this race a referendum on Trump focusing on the past and his own grievances and retaliation efforts versus a forward looking campaign, which is what Harrison walls are doing right now. And, like, historically, if you look at which works better, the demagoguery might have a few moments in history where it works like it did in 2016. But, you know, the campaigns we remember, the campaigns that really exceeded expectations and changed the course of history in this country, were those that were focused on hope. It happened with Barack Obama in 2008. And if you're going to take the Obama hope message and put it against the Trump, you know, demagoguery, hell on earth, world war three message, especially after having gone through it already in 2016, I put my money on hope before I would on destruction and chaos.

David Pakman
Yeah, of course. That's the hope, you know, to go back to the biraciality thing. I had this very funny realization in the immediate aftermath of Trump saying she used to be indian and she became black. I actually talked to my audience seriously about how, you know, there is this question about our Jamaican. Are Jamaicans considered black or not? And there's different academic definitions where. And then afterwards, I realized they. It's not that they're confused about whether Jamaicans are black or are african american. They're confused about being biracial. Like, my entire discussion assumed that they actually were 1% in good faith questioning whether Jamaicans qualify as this or that, which is a serious academic topic.

I
Right.

David Pakman
They had no clue. They're just like, how can you be indian and black? It was like that base and absurd, what they were bringing up. It's.

I
It's like any suggestion that they're doing it because they're not sure about the legitimacy of Jamaicans being considered black is assuming that it is giving them too much credit already.

That's already ten steps ahead of where they are. They just can't understand the very basic, or refuse to understand the very basic concepts of what it is. And that's also assuming that they're not just doing this for an even more pernicious reason, which is to try and paint Kamala Harris as not black. Because Trump knows that his goal here has to be to reach out to people of color and young people. And so, and so by. By trying to create a wedge between her and that community, he thinks he's going to help himself, but in fact, he just looks like a racist old white guy.

David Pakman
So last thing I want to talk to you about is what you see as the role of progressive, independent media going forward here. You and I have had a lot of conversations off air about how we are feeling, about what's happening politically with the understanding that we're always going to our audiences and just giving our opinions. Like, sometimes people will write to me and go, you know, David, you crafted your opinion in order to give x or y impression. And what I've always done, and as far as I know, what you have always done is what you publicly say is just what you actually believe at the time. There's no, like, character that you're playing in this sort of thing.

I
Right.

David Pakman
And so my views, for example, on Biden and ultimately stepping down shifted over time as I received more information. And we are now where we are. And I'm trying to make the best effort to inform my audience about what's, what's the best path, path forward.

I don't want progressive, independent media to become, to use a pejorative term, blue Maga or any of others. I wanted it to be a place where there is critical thinking and we're evaluating our choices and making the best ones. How do we keep it at that in the environment that's building as our platforms grow?

I
Yeah, that's a good question. I think, look, I think it's easy in a lot of times to kind of bend to the whims of the majority of the audience. And if they want, you know, if they're looking for a certain answer, if they want us to act a certain way, I think there is a lot of pressure for us to do that, especially because we're immediately responsive to our audiences. Right. Like we have the gift and the curse of being able to see, for example, instant feedback. And so people are mad about something, they're going to let us know and we're going to feel it a hell of a lot more than somebody's going to feel it on legacy media when they do their thing into a camera, pack up their stuff, go home, watch tv later and maybe open a few emails or probably not. So there is that pressure on us. But I think our job really, look, the authenticity is going to show. That's presumably why you and I got to the point that we're at where we're able to reach as many people as we're lucky enough to be able to reach. But I think if the authenticity starts to give way to some expectation that we have to perform a certain way, then the audience will be able to feel that. I mean, the benefit of what we do is we just get to be real on camera and give our real thoughts on everything. And so while there might be that pressure, look, at the end of the day, again, it's going to be a question of authenticity versus performative nature. And so you just gotta do whatever you can to make sure that you're authentic because it's gonna shine through.

And you're gonna have, you know, if you lie about one thing and the lies kind of like stack on top of other lies, it's gonna be a house of cards that you're not gonna be able to maintain for too long. So that's our job, is to just keep being authentic. And there's plenty of people who will call us out on our bullshit if we're not. Again, the curse and the curse and the blessing of being an independent media figure who's directly responsible to people who can comment and email and leave messages and basically reach us in any one of a million different ways.

David Pakman
Yeah, blessing and curse sounds about right in terms of the repercussions.

I
It is funny because I'll look at my inbox sometimes, and to your point about blessing and curse, I'll look at my inbox and I'll just see one email after the next, and you just get whiplash seeing what people have to say. Like, someone will say the worst thing that you've ever heard a human say to another human, and the next thing is like, I love your show. Thank you so much for what you do.

David Pakman
So not only that, I mean, any interview I do, I just did a panel with Mike Pillow and then, like, an actual voter fraud expert, and I got emails saying, this is absolutely the best thing that you've ever done. And also, this was a complete waste of 35 minutes. Please never do it again. I mean, I think the point is there's hopefully a little something for everyone. If they don't like me, and many of them don't. Maybe they like you or maybe they like somebody else.

I
Yeah, well, I've. You know, look, I've maintained to my audience that the work that you do, you are a massive, massive inspiration in terms of why I came onto YouTube.

I think that you're the best in the business and that your audience is lucky to be able to have your perspective on your channel. So, you know, I would just.

I would just extend to your audience that it doesn't get better than what David does.

David Pakman
Well, thank you so much. And you're out there killing it and so are so many others. So, listen, let me tell you once again, Tuesday, the book is out. Not my book. I'm talking about Brian's book. It's called Shameless Republicans, deliberate dysfunction and the battle to preserve democracy. We're linking to the book so you can get it. And it's also available in audio, video, I'm sorry, not video, in audio, written and also ebook form. Really everywhere that one would expect to find such things, I think is fair to say.

I
Yeah, it's available everywhere. If you want, you know, if you get your books on Amazon or Barnes Noble, or even if you want to support independent booksellers, you can go to bookshop.org dot. That's a great one to support indie shops and would very much appreciate it, especially considering a certain hillbilly elegy is on the rise. And so I would just love to not be upstaged by JD Vance's book.

David Pakman
No, that would be a real shame, as Donald Trump often says. Brian, really appreciate having you on. Thanks, David.

I
Thanks so much, man.

David Pakman
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I think yesterday we saw the funniest campaign event gone wrong that I've seen in years. In order to attempt to show the chaos, I guess, of a potential Kamala Harris presidency, the Trump team put together an event for JD Vance called Kamala Chaos in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Sort of like shadowing where Harris and walls would be speaking later in the day. And the entire event was so mismanaged that the crowd standing behind JD Vance blocked the word chaos in this banner. And it looks like a Kamala Harris rally. I mean, you can, when if you just were to scroll past this, you see Philadelphia and you see Kamala in huge letters and you see a guy speaking. It sort of looks like a guy endorsing Kamala Harris. I don't know how else to say it. And just widely lampooned and lambasted and ridiculed because it's so, so stupid and such an obvious mistake. And the real chaos to me seems to be that they ended up holding an event meant to attack, attack Kamala Harris that looked like it was a Kamala Harris campaign event. Now, everything about the event was ridiculous, including the audio. Here is a clip from Fox News where they show a reporter asking Vance a question. You see Kamala over his head and the word chaos continues to be obscured by the crowd. And Vance just attacks Tim walls with the usual kind of like nonsense talking points.

JD Vance
So first of all, the reason I didn't say a whole lot about Tim Waltz is because the Democrats have showed a willingness to pull a little switcheroo on us. So I don't even know if we're actually going to get Tim Waltz out of this campaign. And I think that a lot of us are asking ourselves, well, speaker one.

David Pakman
You know, there's always some way in which these guys are always projecting. And now, you know, Trump introduced, as I told you earlier in the show, Biden might show up at the DNC and demand the nomination back. No, he won't. And now JD Van says, I don't know that we're even really going to get Tim Walls by the end of this campaign.

And of course, we are. Tim Walls is going to be the running mate. It's very clear it's already been announced. But the real question is, is JD Vance going to make it to November? There's always some aspect to this where what they throw to at others actually applies to them. Let's hear the rest of his answer.

JD Vance
Speaker one, it's not going to be official until the Democrats actually nominate him, I guess, at their convention next week. So that's the first reason. The second reason is, look, Tim Waltz's record is a joke. He's been one of the most far left radicals in the entire United States government at any level. But I think that what Tim Waltz's selection says is that Kamala Harris has bent the knee to the far left of her party, which is what she always does.

David Pakman
Yes. Meanwhile, there are many on the left who say Tim Walls is like kind of too middle of the road. I wish he were further left, but he really doesn't seem to be so total chaos in trying to make it seem as though Kamala's campaign is chaotic, and it ends up with JD van speaking in front of what looks to be a Kamala Harris sign. Eventually, we got to the question of why aren't you guys really campaigning, especially Trump? I want to talk about that next. I'm going to show you the difference in schedules this week, campaign schedules, between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. And the context here is that you may recall in 2020 and even in this campaign leading up to Joe Biden stepping aside, Trump and MAGA and Republicans love talking about Joe Biden's in the basement. He's not really running a campaign. He won't leave his house. Now, there's different sort of stories to this. The first story is that of 2020, where Trump was holding what were then considered pretty irresponsible rallies in the middle of a pandemic, where Joe Biden was just kind of following medical advice and campaigning safely. And the funniest part about talking about how Biden campaigned from his basement in 2020 is Trump lost to a guy who campaigned in his basement. That's very embarrassing for Trump this time around. They started with the basement stuff, but very quickly got away from it because Biden actually was holding a more active campaign schedule than was Donald Trump, who was mostly golfing and hanging out at his various houses.

We now have a very different situation. Here is the campaign schedule for this week. Kamala Harris, as you know, held a campaign event yesterday in Pennsylvania with Tim Walls. She's in Michigan and Wisconsin today. She's in North Carolina tomorrow. She's in Arizona the next day and Nevada the next day after that. The only thing Trump has scheduled is a rally on Friday in Montana. That's it. So as it is, the Trump schedule is very, very light. And Republicans are noticing this. And it's a vicious cycle. Trump's lagging in fundraising, and then he doesn't do that many events. The lack of visibility only hurts his fundraising more. Here's a clip from MSNBC about how Republicans are aware of what's going on.

Kevin McCarthy
Speaker one, I was saying so eloquently before that is that his travel has been sparse and it's been noticed by Republicans who have wondered why he's not out there.

Donald Trump
More.

Kevin McCarthy
Obviously, JD Vance is out there a fair bit as the attack dog who's bracketing Kamala Harris. But I, Trump has not been in the public eye. He's not been doing these rallies. He had one on Saturday.

And you've seen this kind of weird tension here because he clearly does want to be in the spotlight. He went to the NABJ, said some outlandish things, attacked the interviewers, played racial politics all over again, really grabbing the spotlight back. But then he kind of disappeared. And I sort of concur with you. I think he's not adjusted to a different type of campaign.

David Pakman
Yeah, the guy is missing. He's missing and he doesn't know what to do. And instead he's doing live streams with Aidan Ross, known for smelling the flatulence of his guests. That's not a joke. That's what he's known for. JD Vance was asked about this on his plane. What's going on with the schedule? Where is Trump? Why isn't he out there? And JD able to say only, well, listen, I'm doing stuff. Pay attention to me. Vice President Harris are expected to take a battleground state tour the next couple of days. Former President Trump won't be making a public campaign appearance until Friday in Montana. Is that a missed opportunity?

JD Vance
Look, I think. I think I'm making a number of public appearances over the next few days just to drive home the fact that Kamala Harris's policy had been such a failure for normal Americans. I know the president's very busy over the next few days. One of the things.

David Pakman
Speaker two, busy with what? We have no idea. No idea whatsoever. It's not been made clear.

JD Vance
Got to do is, of course, get out there and speak to people and speak to reporters. A final thing you have to do, of course, is raise a the resources and I. The president's very busy doing exactly that. So he and I are taking a divide and conquer strategy to this campaign.

David Pakman
Sometimes JD is campaigning and Trump isn't. That's the division, obviously do events together.

JD Vance
But I think we're going to use the fact that we have two people who can both get out there and prosecute a message.

David Pakman
Yeah. And JD's makeup looking, looking really, really good here. One of the things that drives me a little nuts is they constantly refer to Trump as the president. Now, there is a difference. Every time I bring this up, some, you know, genius will write to me and go, David, you keep the title of president for life. I understand that. But there's a difference between being introduced or referred to in person as mister president, President Trump. There's a difference between that and whenever you mention Trump, you go, the president is doing this. In that context, anyone would assume you're talking about the current president. Trump is not the current president, despite whatever JD Vance may have been convinced to say or whatever the case may be. So I don't know whether just hanging out, not in his basement, but in his house is going to work well as a campaign strategy for Donald Trump. But even Republicans are noticing that this guy's MIA. We do have a voicemail number, and that number is 2192. David P. Here is a really, really sick caller. And I want to remind you now that we're not on radio and tv, we don't have to bleep profanity. There is profanity forthcoming here. It will not be bleeped. Just as a warning to anybody who may be sensitive to that.

Donald Trump
Speaker one. Yeah, my name is John Paul. I live in Michigan. I'm 74 years old, and I hate your fucking guts.

You say that Donald Trump is terrified to debate that stupid curtain with Kamala Harris. He didn't have an agreement with Kamala Harris. He had an agreement with Biden, and Biden backed out because Biden quit.

David Pakman
Right now, obviously, if Trump thought it was a good idea to debate Kamala, then he would be glad to do it. He's kind of resisting and trying to get attention, but doesn't really matter. What does that matter? It's just, do you, do you want to win or don't you? That's the question for Trump.

Donald Trump
Speaker two. I'm going to tell you something, Hal.

David Pakman
Please.

Donald Trump
I'll come on your fucking show and I'll kick the shit out of you anytime you say you're welcome. You're the one who's terrified of me. I've already goddamn reached out to you last year. Give me a call. I will show up in North Carolina on your show, and I'll give you a fucking thing to think about.

David Pakman
That's. I would love for this guy to call in. I'd love to talk to him about economic policy.

I'd love to talk to him about social issues and what he sees as, you know, the role of the global superpowers when it comes to nuclear proliferation.

He's welcome anytime. Okay. He's absolutely welcome anytime.

Oh, boy. Wow, what a situation. By the way, Michigan voter. Okay. That guy votes in Michigan. If he votes, we've got to make sure in every state we are ready for November. We have a great bonus show for you today. We are going to talk about the claims from some that Josh Shapiro was not selected as VP because he's jewish.

I have thoughts on it. There is a lot to say about it. Number two, a judge has ruled that Google has an illegal monopoly on search. And we're going to discuss what happens next. Could we see enforcement of antitrust? And thirdly, there is a man with a plan to tax the world's wealthiest 3000 people. What is the plan? How would you do it? All of those stories and more on today's bonus show.

Tim Walz
Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money. Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad.

David Pakman
Sign up@joinpakman.com.

coupon code is saved democracy 24 please make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel and remember that you can pre order my book, the Echo Machine at david pakman.com echo, or on any book or audiobook website that you prefer.

I'll see you on the bonus show.