6/19/24: TDPS on Daily Show and MSNBC, Trump's brain stops working

This episode delves into David Pakman's media appearances discussing the controversial financial activities of Senate candidate Royce White and features humorous clips from "The Daily Show" and commentary from MSNBC.

1. Media spotlight can magnify minor campaign issues into significant public spectacles.
2. Politicians often struggle with damage control in the face of humorous or satirical media coverage.
3. Interviews that go viral can influence public opinion and political narratives significantly.
4. The importance of accurate campaign finance reporting and public accountability.
5. The role of comedic news shows in political commentary and their impact on real-life political outcomes.

1: Introduction

David Pakman introduces the topic of his media appearances regarding Royce White's campaign spending controversies.
David Pakman: "We're starting with something a little different today because it's very exciting."

2: Daily Show Feature

Discussion on "The Daily Show" clip where Jon Stewart humorously critiques Royce White's campaign spending.
Jon Stewart: "Minnesota needs a senator who makes good decisions, so vote for me. The guy who goes to a strip club to eat shrimp."

3: MSNBC Coverage

Analysis of the MSNBC segment, emphasizing the broader implications of nominating unfit candidates.
Chris Hayes: "Once again, Republicans are doing the exact same thing, which is nominating absolute and total clowns."

4: Political Implications

Pakman discusses the potential political fallout from the media coverage and the importance of voter awareness.
David Pakman: "It did not occur to me that it was going to end up leading to even more scrutiny."

1. Always scrutinize the origins of campaign funding and expenditures to maintain transparency.
2. Recognize the power of media in shaping political narratives and stay informed through diverse sources.
3. Engage critically with political satire to discern underlying truths and biases.
4. Support political accountability initiatives to ensure candidates uphold ethical standards.
5. Educate others about the importance of understanding the context behind media clips and political accusations.

-- On the Show:

-- Dave Farina, science communicator and author best known for his YouTube channel Professor Dave Explains, joins David to discuss the recent explosion of misinformation and disinformation on the Joe Rogan podcast

-- David's recent interview with Republican Senate candidate Royce White is featured on the Daily Show with Jon Stewart

-- David's recent interview with Republican Senate candidate Royce White is featured on MSNBC's All in with Chris Hayes

-- Failed former President Donald Trump holds a rally in Racine, Wisconsin during which his brain stops working, he glitches badly, tells dozen of lies, and stuns the crowd into total silence

-- Trump supporters are interviewed at Trump's rally in Racine, Wisconsin, and they turn out to be a scary cross-section of American society

-- Author Ramin Setoodeh reveals that Donald Trump was convinced Joan Rivers voted for him in 2016 despite dying in 2014 and that he was still in control of "the Afghanistan" after leaving office

-- A devastating new poll finds that 1 in 20 Trump voters from 2020 are planning to vote for President Joe Biden this November

-- Voicemail caller thinks he has caught David in an impossible situation, demanding David provide examples of left wing policies that "make things less expensive"

-- On the Bonus Show: Half a million immigrants could get US citizenship under new Biden plan, Thailand becomes first South-East Asian country to legalize same-sex marriage, Matt Gaetz investigation looking at sexual misconduct and drug claims, much more...

People

Jon Stewart, Chris Hayes, Royce White

Content Warnings:

None

David Pakman
Welcome, everybody. We're starting with something a little different today because it's very exciting. Last night, I was featured in both the Daily show and also on MSNBC. We're going to check out the clips, and then I want to talk a little bit about the origins of all of this, or the oranges, as some like to say, both clips. And we're going to start with, with the Daily show from last night. Both of these clips are related to my interview with Minnesota Republican Senate candidate Royce White and the exchange we had about his supposed strip club food, but not strip club, strippers spending.

I can only imagine that Royce White is very, very upset with me at this point because this interview that he did, which he thought would be great for him in some way, has now led to a number of written articles, the Daily show and MSNBC, pointing to his explanation for money supposedly spent, donor money supposedly spent at a strip club.

And it is getting way more attention than I can imagine he wants. So let's start with the Daily show clip. There's a nice little montage here. This is a couple minutes, so let's take a look.

Jon Stewart
Let's kick things off in Minnesota, where Republicans have endorsed Royce White to run against democratic senator Amy Klobuchar in November, and he's already turning the race into an episode of Jerry Springer.

David Pakman
White has been mired in controversial revelations, including failure to pay child support, referring to women as mouthy, and at one time identifying himself as an anti semite on social media. And then there are the questionable campaign expenditures in 2022 when he ran for Congress, including $1,200 at a Florida strip club.

Jon Stewart
I'm not paying child support to maori women because I'm spending it at a strip club. I mean, think about red flag. Bingo.

He even calls himself an anti semite on social media. Although to be fair to him, declaring you're an anti semite is how you have to log into Twitter.

David Pakman
Now.

Jon Stewart
That's the new, that's the new captcha.

By the way.

David Pakman
By the way.

Jon Stewart
If you're wondering about the accusation that Roy spent campaign funds at a strip club, listen, he has a very clear explanation for this.

David Pakman
It was recently revealed you spent campaign donations at a strip club. Is that true?

Royce White
That's not true.

David Pakman
Okay.

Royce White
It was a reference to a campaign filing, the FEC, that was not done properly.

David Pakman
Your claim is there were filings which said you spent campaign funds at a strip club, but they were inconsistent.

Royce White
No, they didn't say that I spent the funds at a strip club or, no, let's say they didn't say that I spent the funds on strippers, but.

David Pakman
It was spent at a strip club.

Royce White
Well, strip club has. They sell food at the strip club, don't they?

Jon Stewart
So I'm not sure this helps his case.

Minnesota needs a senator who makes good decisions, so vote for me. The guy who goes to a strip club to eat shrimp.

And look, hey, I'm sorry for interrupting him, okay? I mean, you were busy explaining how you don't know anything about stripes.

David Pakman
You've spent the money on food at a strip club. Is that more accurate?

Royce White
You seem to be very unfamiliar with strippers and strip clubs and drag strip shows, so I'll inform you. Maybe you aren't informed that they do have food at strip clubs.

David Pakman
So what you're saying is the money was.

Royce White
No, wait. Did you know that, though? Did you know that I know strip clubs? Have you ever been to a strip club?

David Pakman
One time.

Royce White
Did you like the food?

David Pakman
No.

Royce White
You gotta go to better strip clubs.

David Pakman
Okay.

Jon Stewart
Wow.

This guy went really quick from not knowing anything about strip clubs to being a strip club expert.

Chris Hayes
Right?

Jon Stewart
I don't know about that place, but go to the second floor, ask for Clarice. Okay. She'll take you to the champagne room. And behind that is the real vip room, code 26 64. Tell them you want the Royce white special. They'll know what you need.

David Pakman
All right. So that's. That's really good stuff, and that's absolutely fantastic. We actually heard from that. We have. There's an employee that works at the daily show who was aware that this was going to air, and he let me know, and I really appreciate that. So this is obviously really great stuff and really great for the show. And it's funny because when we were. When we were taping that, I had the instinct that there was something.

There was a second layer of humor to the entire thing that was based on Royce making me sort of the subject of the inquiries. Have I been to strip clubs? Am I aware that there's food at strip clubs? Do I think the food is good at strip clubs? And all this sort of thing? It did not occur to me that it was going to end up leading to even more scrutiny on the specifics of spending donor money at strip clubs and ending up on the Daily show. So that's really great. Really appreciate everybody at the Daily show for choosing to feature that. And that's not the only great instance from the last 24 hours of the David Pakman show in other media.

It was also on MSNBC, so let's talk about that. Next.

ChriS Hayes, all in with Chris Hayes on MSNBC last night did indeed feature part of my interview with Minnesota Republican Senate candidate Royce White. It was indeed the portion about his alleged spending of donor money at a strip club, not on strippers, but on food at the strip club, because everybody knows the food at strip clubs is so good. You would go just for the food.

And I know some people will write to me and they'll go, David, there's this place in Vegas where the food genuinely is that good. Okay, that may be. That may be, but it's not an explanation that made a lot of sense. So Chris Hayes featured this in a segment called freaks and geeks. And actually, really, the broader point of the segment that Chris Hayes did is a very good one, which is, once again, Republicans are doing the exact same thing, which is nominating absolute and total clowns in all sorts of parts of the country, setting themselves up for another major humiliating electoral devastation in November. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We need to make that a reality.

But here is the segment from Chris Hayes, and again, you will notice my interview from Royce with Roy Royce White making an appearance here, notably in Minnesota, where to take on incumbent democratic senator Amy Klobuchar. Republicans have nominated Royce White, a former NBA player turned Infowars lover, a guy who has advanced conspiracy theories about everything from Nancy Pelosi's husband and the Federal Reserve while reportedly managing to owe over $100,000 in child support, is now having to answer questions about why his campaign spent $1,200 at a Florida strip club. And by the way, I love the intro where he's having to answer questions. In a sense. That's true. I made him answer the questions. I like that lead in your claim is there were filings which said you spent campaign funds at a strip club, but they were in.

Royce White
No, they didn't say that I spent the funds at a strip club or, no, let's say they didn't say that I spent the funds on strippers, but.

David Pakman
It was spent at a strip club.

Royce White
Well, strip club has. They sell food at the strip club, don't they?

David Pakman
So you were having, you've spent the money on food at a strip club. Is that more accurate?

Royce White
You seem to be very unfamiliar with strippers and strip clubs and drag strip shows. So I'll inform you, maybe you aren't informed that they do have food at strip clubs.

David Pakman
Delicious white has also rallied. All right. So, so again, also, really, really good stuff there.

I think if I want to be picky, MSNBC instead of just saying the source for that is YouTube. It's a little weird to be like, hey, this is an interview from YouTube.

Usually you would put YouTube slash the David Pakman show, all right? But beggars can't be choosers, okay? I'm not saying I'm being treated unfairly. Really, really great. And a bunch of attention for the show as a result of that membership dumps, people reaching out saying, david, I saw you on this. I saw you on that. So absolutely great, great stuff. I have another announcement to make, which I might as well make here because we're just talking about other things I'm going to be doing. I will be appearing on C SPAN, which is, as we know, the most electrifying media outlet one can be on. And I'm sort of kidding because even though it is toned down, I actually think that you can have very good political discussion on C SPAN. I'm going to be on C SpAN taking calls from C SpAN viewers opposite a conservative.

And they actually found, I want to be careful, but they found a more reasonable right winger who is not overtly a bomb thrower. I actually don't remember the guy's name, but I'm going to be appearing alongside him. And we'll be taking questions for an hour on C SPAN. It's going to be the week of July 1, probably on the Tuesday. I will follow up with you and tell you when that is. So some really good stuff going on with the show as we are building here towards a climax, which I don't know if it's going to be with the debate next week, if indeed it does or doesn't happen, or the election itself, but we are really building here. We're going to take a very quick break, hear from a couple of sponsors, and then the last 24 hours have really been something. So we will get everybody caught up on everything that's going on.

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Facebook has decided we don't really want to promote political content anymore. Revenues down 90% on Facebook, we have no recourse other than to say if we replace that support by growing our direct support from half of 1% to 1%, our problems are over overnight. So consider a membership at join Pacman.com and you can read about all the great member benefits that are there as Donald Trump continues to make the case that Joe Biden has no idea what's going on and can't think and can't speak and just is demented, quite frankly. He continues, Trump that is to struggle visibly to the point where it is actually getting a little bit painful to watch. Donald Trump held a rally last night, if you can call it that, or yesterday afternoon in Racine, Wisconsin, after insulting Milwaukee. Trump trying to suck up to Wisconsin voters by showing up and telling them how great their state is. And he couldn't even get the words Joe Biden out while talking about how Joe Biden can't remember anything, he called him Joe Bride and glitched badly. And this is getting very difficult to watch.

Chris Hayes
Joe Bride.

David Pakman
Joe Bride. And so you really have to understand visually what's happening. He says Joe Bride and then he does a very particular move that happens when the brain fails. Let's listen to the whole thing.

Chris Hayes
Speaker one, Joe Bride. This guy is just the worst.

Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of our country, will be a fading nightmare. He'll be a fading, I have fading memory, but I think, do you mind if I change it? He will be a fading nightmare. He's been a nightmare for this country.

David Pakman
So when Trump starts to repeat words over and over again, it's because he's confused about what's on the teleprompter. As we know, Donald Trump is not illiterate. He obviously can read, but his functional literacy is certainly quite limited and it is tough for him to get a lot of this stuff out. At another point, Donald Trump saying, joe, Joe Biden is forming, granting mass. Think of now, if you hear me say that and you go, David, those, those seem like random words. They're not in any kind of syntax that I recognize as part of the english language. Joe Biden is forming, granting mass. Think of that doesn't make any sense. And you would be right. It doesn't make any sense.

Chris Hayes
Joe Biden's forming, granting mass. Singer he's going to formally grant speaker one.

David Pakman
It's so bad to laugh, but there's something, it's like an uncomfortable laughter.

These aren't sentences that make sense.

Joe Biden is forming, granting mass. Think of, how can I even analyze that something is very wrong. Trump getting distracted in the middle of one of his rants by a lake. And then he talked about sharks.

It sounds like the conversations I have with my two year old daughter.

And I have to tell you, it's much clearer to me what she means, even if I can't always understand what she says.

Chris Hayes
Speaker one, my life could have been so simple.

I could have had 200 lawyers less. My life could have been.

David Pakman
That's 200 fewer lawyers. Please, please.

Chris Hayes
So simple. I would have had a beautiful life. But this is a beautiful life. This is far more beautiful. I mean, what's better, being with you right now? Look at that. Beautiful lake.

Beautiful lake.

David Pakman
So now a shiny object went by. He's distracted.

Chris Hayes
Beautiful, right?

What's better, this or sitting on the Pacific or the Atlantic, which has sharks?

You don't have sharks. See, that's a big advantage.

I'll take the one without the sharks.

David Pakman
So I guess Trump extolling the virtues of Wisconsin after having insulted Milwaukee by saying, hey, listen, Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, forget about it. This is what we want right here because there aren't sharks. I guess Trump then doing his rant where he says that a real red flag about some of the immigrants that are coming to the United States is that they speak languages. No one has ever heard of it.

Chris Hayes
You have people that come in illegally that don't speak the language. We don't even know the country. These are countries where we have nobody in our country that even understands the language.

David Pakman
So this is, of course, a reminder that no matter how much money you have, you really can't buy class.

It's not something that you can do. It's also kind of ironic that Trump's talking about people who come here and we can't understand them because half the time, it's very difficult to understand Donald Trump. Like when he says Joe Biden is forming, granting mass, think of, I don't know what that means, and yet Trump's allowed to be here. So that's all kind of strange. Going back to lying about the size of Trump's crowds, which he's very self conscious about. He falsely claims that at his New Jersey rally now the number is up to 100, 107,000 people. It started at 60,000, then it was 80, and then it was 100,000. Trump now saying there were 107,000 people at his rally in Jersey.

Chris Hayes
It was the greatest. I had 107,000 people show up in New Jersey.

David Pakman
Now, it's hard to believe that that's true because that's more than the total number of people that were in that city, Wildwood, New Jersey, on that particular day. So it's one of these, like, how is that even mathematically possible? And then, maybe most interestingly, psychologically, from yesterday's rally, Trump talking about next week's debate, he seems very nervous about it. And he is trying to set expectations low by saying, Biden's going to be on drugs, he's going to be pumped up. They found cocaine at the White House and he's really trying to set the stage for people to say, if it seems like Biden did ok and Trump didn't, it must have been because of performance enhancing drugs, which, of course, drugs that make you be a really good debater, we haven't really tracked down, doesn't have a clue.

Chris Hayes
Now we're going to watch. Is anybody going to watch the debate?

David Pakman
Oh, yeah.

Chris Hayes
He's going to be so pumped up. He's going to be pumped up. You know, all that stuff that was missing about a month ago from the White House, what happened? Who left it? Somebody left it there. I wonder. Let's see. Somebody left a laptop in an office.

David Pakman
Of, by the way, the cocaine was found in 2023. Such. So, as usual, Trump's sense of time a little bit off.

Chris Hayes
A gentleman was supposed to fix the laptop from hell. He never picked it up. And somebody didn't pick up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cocaine. I wonder who that could have been.

David Pakman
So, of course, the suggestion here is Biden will be a good debater because he's on cocaine, and the cocaine found at the White House is actually Joe Biden's. Why he would keep it in an area accessible to White House guests, I have no idea. Seems very, very stupid. On economic matters. Donald Trump did weigh in and he said he doesn't care what all of the economic indicators say. He believes inflation is between 40 and 50%. All right. I mean, listen, just make. Say it's 100%. If you're going to lie, take a.

Chris Hayes
Look at our inflation, our real inflation.

They said it was ten for the last couple of years. Cumulatively, you take a look at inflation.

David Pakman
Cuba flee.

Dave Farina
I like that.

Chris Hayes
And if you add different categories, which they don't, I think our inflation is between 40 and 50%. They say it's a 22%, 22% a lot. That's record setting. But I think you could double it. Let them add the cost of interest. Let them add the cost of trying to buy a.

David Pakman
If you add up different things and the cost of interest, then inflation is between 40 and 50%. A really interesting and precise assessment on the economy from Trump on the topic of vaccines. Donald Trump has a message for any school that has a vaccine mandate, and.

Chris Hayes
I will not give one penny to any school that has a vaccine mandate or a mask mandate.

David Pakman
The crowd cheering there's one little problem.

Every public school has a vaccine mandate. Every single one. So that means, hey, and by the way, this is, of course, what Trump wants. This means no money for any public schools. If you believe Donald Trump, which why would you? The guy lies all the time. And then lastly, Trump talking about conquering and wars and seems very confused by the words on his teleprompter.

Chris Hayes
We stand on the shoulders of the american giants who crossed the oceans, explored the continent, settled Great Plains, won the wild west, laid down the railroads, raised up those great, big, beautiful skyscrapers. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Conquered the skies, fought two world wars and won. And we didn't have to change the name of the forts, by the way.

Does anybody know what I mean by that?

David Pakman
Nobody has any idea what the guy means. So a completely delusional rally at which Donald Trump's feebleness, or is it feebility? I'm kidding. It's not. Feeballity really came through. And there are continued and growing rumors that this guy's going to bail on next week's debate. Let's hope it doesn't happen, because I really do want to see it. We may have found the most disconnected from reality Trump supporter in history. He was interviewed yesterday outside Trump's rally in Racine, Wisconsin. And I know that when I play this, I'm going to get emails from people saying, David, this is an obviously mentally ill person. They're being exploited. Nobody should be interviewing them. It is unfair. It is, it is really mean.

And the problem we have is that so often when Trump supporters are interviewed at Trump rallies, it does seem like they are suffering with some kind of issue. And I don't know if that means we can't ever air interviews with Trump supporters. It's actually a really tough thing for media. So take a listen to this. He explains why he likes Donald Trump. Speaker one.

Speaker 1
I think it shows that Trump is, like, built different and like, yeah, he's not doing this for the benefit. Like, like, he was already a billionaire before. Nice properties around the world. Like, he's doing it because he cares about people. And I think, like you said, all the stuff he's going through shows it because, like, if I just wanted the power, if I just wanted the money or fame, like, I, you know what, any other politician would have dropped out, like criminal cases, you know, all that. But, but I think it shows that he's in it for the people and that's why he wants to continue.

David Pakman
Speaker one. So listen, obviously delusional. I can't think of any president who has ever been in it less for the people and more for himself than Trump.

But you look at the comments to this interview and you see the usual things. This is unfair. This is exploiting someone who's clearly mentally ill, maybe severely.

I don't know what to tell you guys. I mean, every time we feature interviews with Trump supporters that we aren't doing, these are interviews being done by other media outlets. I get emails from people saying, David, you really shouldn't exploit people who are very clearly mentally ill. I mean, is that guy mentally ill? I don't know. Is supporting Trump at this point in general assigned that something isn't, you know, the, the wheel is spinning, but the hamster is dead, for lack of a better metaphor. I just don't know. I just don't know.

Another cult supporter said that Trump can last all morning, day and night, which was an interesting moment. I really wonder how Biden is going to be able to fare considering President Trump can last all morning, all day, all night. He goes with energy like no other. So it will be interesting to see how Biden, speaker one, no performance enhancing drugs or anything, at least as far as that woman is concerned.

Another gentleman was interviewed and he says his main issue that he wants Trump to deal with is the fall of religion and Christianity in America. Talking to your friends, what is one of the most, what's the main concern.

Caitlin Collins
For you when you look at the Biden administration?

David Pakman
What's going on in our country?

Man, it's hard to pinpoint on one thing. You know, there's many things, you know, I like what you was talking about or what they both were talking about, about how Christianity has basically fallen in many ways.

And now the biggest fall for me, in my opinion, is, is the fall in religion. 100% talking to you. There you go. So that guy's very concerned about declining religion in America.

Yikes. Then they interview another guy who says that what he wants to hear from Trump at the rally is about the corruption of Biden. Okay, so what is it that you're looking forward to the most today to hear from President Trump?

Speaker 1
Put BIDeN the shame and just expose all the corruption.

David Pakman
There you go. Expose. Exping for an expose, as the term may be, of all of Joe Biden's corruption.

If you, the republican committee investigating Biden corruption, has spent years looking into it and still has no evidence of it. So I don't think that you are going to hear it from Trump. And then lastly, there is this guy who I think describes himself as a MAGA rapper. He has a very unique look. And I believe this is the guy who goes by the name for Giotto blow, which is an unusual name. And he just says that Trump is a rock star, essentially. Never seen support for any president like this ever. Right? Donald Trump is the most supported out of anybody. I mean, Donald Trump is almost bigger than, you know, the Philadelphia Eagles attempt Bay buccaneers. I mean, his brain speaker one, actually. I don't know whether, whether this is for Giotto blow or another guy named Jimmy Levy. No, that is for Gado blow. Okay, so all of the luminaries coming out to support Donald Trump in Wisconsin, as you can see, it's not clear who's more delusional. Is it Trump or his supporters? And we end up with a situation that tragically and sadly is the blind leading the blind. I don't like to see it, but it's where we are. But we can vote to at least take it out of power. That's my plan for November.

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It's great to have Dave Farina back on the program. A science communicator and author, best known for his YouTube channel, Professor Dave explains. Dave, it's great to have you on again.

Dave Farina
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

David Pakman
So let's see how we can kind of enter this conversation. I've been appalled, but not necessarily completely surprised by the speed with which ideas that have no basis in fact that I can find become very popular among large swaths of the population. And you and I both recently watched Terrence Howard's appearance on Joe Rogan. And this is the appearance during which he talks about how the tone of some elements can be bisexual, which was not language I ever saw applied to the periodic table of elements. And one times one is two, and all these different things. And I saw it, it seemed crazy to me, to use a colloquial term. I showed the video to some mental health professionals. They all said, listen, we would probably medicate this if someone presented in my office talking in this way. It seems like something we have medical interventions we could try to do. And yet when I covered it, I got dozens of emails and there were hundreds of comments from people saying, david, this guy's brilliant. You just don't understand him.

It's so on and so forth. Generally, what's your view about the way in which some of these ideas, for lack of a better term, are spreading and people get entranced and enamored with it?

Dave Farina
I mean, it's hard to approach this one because you got to understand, I'm no stranger to reality denial. I deal with flat earthers. I deal with people who are in complete denial of so many things that are well understood. But I always thought that we could all agree, even flat earthers, on basic arithmetic. Two plus two equals four and things like that. So with the Terry episode, like you, I just thought, okay, we're all kind of having a laugh about this.

And I was shocked when I put out a reaction video to that interview. How many thousands of people? Because that video went a little bit more viral than most of my content does. The level of vitriol and accusations of racism. You don't understand what he's saying. It's like, the guy can't do second grade math. Like, can we at least all agree on basic math, please?

So I really don't know. Like, I feel like reality denial is just getting worse and worse over time. It's. It's hard to know where to go from here, honestly, how do you.

David Pakman
What approach is there? I don't know if this would be if you were talking to Terrence Howard or if you were talking to one of the people that thinks the stuff he was saying is brilliant. You can interpret it either way. What sorts of approaches would you suggest in attempting to reason with such claims if one wanted to? Because, you know, with a lot of political beliefs, I will use, like, a socratic method of questioning, you know, oh, the zero tax rate would be the best. And I'd say, okay, how'd you come up with that idea? Where'd you get that? What examples do we have of what happens when you have a zero tax rate? And sometimes that method can make some kind of progress, but when you apply, like, the one times one equals two thing, seems like applying linguistic analysis to math, and it's sort of like, I can very clearly say, no. What you have one times one means one instance of one thing. If I have one instance of one banana, that's one. That's how one times one equals one.

Dave Farina
Right.

David Pakman
How do you even try to reason with some of this stuff?

Dave Farina
I mean, just using those kinds of examples, like, it's very different from political beliefs and things like that, where even if you disagree strongly, you can at least attempt some kind of a good faith conversation. See if you can find middle ground. There is no middle ground on arithmetic. One times one equals one. If you don't agree with that, you're wrong. So, for me, the challenge, I'm not really the best with the sociological aspect. What my skillset lies in is more just breaking these concepts down in ways that are absolutely undeniable. So, with arithmetic, in my video, I just went back and explained basic arithmetic and what the operation of multiplication is in the sense of repeated addition, and showed pictures and examples. And it's a little embarrassing to have to do that. I do that. And then the same thing with the periodic table saying things are frequencies and this and that. And hydrogen is only the first element that we can perceive, and that there's ones before that. It's like, no, hydrogen is the first element because it has one proton, one proton, two protons, three things that everyone was supposed to learn in 10th grade chemistry. So that's really just my approach is just laying all the facts out in a way that is as simple and succinct as possible and just hope that people watch it, and obviously, many of them don't. And so there's that. But you know what?

David Pakman
Can you speaker one?

There's this other guy, Billy Carson, who was just before our interview, I was watching him on the Patrick Bat David podcast on which I've appeared, and then he was with Rogan. And if I understand correctly, and a lot of this is, the followers of these folks will then write in and go, you're just not understanding what he's really saying. He's like, okay, if I understand correctly, he has beliefs about ancient civilizations that involve gold mining and the Anunnaki, and he thinks there was someone named Thoth or, I don't even know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. This stuff, you know, he's able to name check Mit and Harvard. I don't know exactly what he got there. Some kind of certif certificate. I don't even really know.

Dave Farina
Just online courses that anybody can take. Just, it doesn't mean anything.

David Pakman
Ok?

Dave Farina
Goodies of any kind. He's not a scholar of anything.

David Pakman
That's. That's good information. So what, what, what do you think is going on here with why this stuff is so appealing? And one thing I notice is the more specific these guys can be, it's often guys, although not always, the more appealing it seems to be. There was this guy, Riley Martin, who used to appear on the Howard Stern show, which, by the way, I found to be one of the most entertaining people ever to talk to Howard, who was super specific about when he was abducted by aliens and the types of aliens and the Targis and how they use different technology. It's riveting in its specificity, but sometimes the specificity seems to also be what lulls people into thinking this must be true.

Dave Farina
Sure. Yeah. And in fact, it's not a new script. He's regurgitating these similar kinds of ancient alien scripts that other people have been doing it. I mean, if I'm being honest, he's sort of repackaging it for, like a, like an urban audience. You know what I mean? He's kind of capturing that demographic and mixing it with, like, his style of success, porn and how to be a millionaire and all these things. It's in my video on him, I said, it's Gaia meets Andrew Tate in sort of a way.

David Pakman
So what are the red flags? In other words, articulate and charismatic? Often is the case with a lot of these folks.

Super specific stories where some people would go, they couldn't possibly making it up because it's so specific. Give us some of the red flags that you can find between the lines of that charisma and specificity.

Dave Farina
I mean, the main one would be techno babble. I mean, they just spew out jargon that they know that the majority of their viewers have no idea what they're saying. But if they use enough technical terminology confidently, people will think that they know what they're saying. They're absolutely not. I mean, with the Billy Carson one, he's spewing all this stuff about, uh, you know, fusion in the pyramids, and then this just like, he's just. He's using scientific terminology that doesn't go together and is absolutely, you know, electrolysis and all these things. It's just. He has absolutely no idea what he's saying. He just says it very confidently, that's all.

David Pakman
And it seems that that's a big difference with actual academics and scientists who seem to often use language, like, based on what we've been able to get our hands on so far, here's our best assessment. And they sort of seem to leave room for the fact that. And we may revise our conclusions as evidence changes, that humility sometimes is missing from these guys.

Dave Farina
Yeah, well, they'll also. They'll also take advantage of that humility and project greater certainty, of course, regarding utter falsehoods. Right. It's a script of lies, but, yeah, I think some people love a confident fraud more than a humble scientist or truth teller. You know, it can be very intoxicating, I think. But in the end, these are stories that people want to be true. They want these stories about aliens coming down and genetically engineering us to mine gold for them. Why would that be the case? They could. It's kind of rare here. I don't know if people were aware, they could go mine asteroids instead and get them, but they're just. They're fun stories. Like, I love the movie Stargate. It's a fun movie, right? But it's a movie, right? And I don't know, this penchant for fantasy mixed with.

I've said this before and probably to you as well, just this increasing anti establishment bias, people that just are so desperate for any kind of prevailing wisdom to be false, whether. I don't know where that stems from exactly, a disillusionment with authority or just wanting to feel smarter than people who actually study things. I don't know what it is that's sort of behind most of the science denial that you see today is this anti establishment bias.

David Pakman
What's your sense of the degree to which Rogan does an acceptable job of handling these sorts of guests? Like, I've spoken to my audience about how when I interview an extremist or kind of wacky guest who I know is going to make either really disgusting claims about people based on race or sexual orientation or is going to tout conspiracies about the election. Like that guy, Mike Pillow, Mike Lindell, as some people know him. Him. I try to be prepared so that I can put up a wall or create an environment in which their views will be exposed as out of the mainstream, indefensible, or whatever the case may be. Rogan's just historically is sort of like, he's curious and wants to hear from people, which is fine, but when there's this sort of nonsense, I start to question the responsibility of it. Like, how do you assess Rogan's relationship to these guests?

Dave Farina
It's tough because in the past, I had somewhat defended Rogan. I'm not an avid Rogan viewer, obviously, I know of the show, and I had seen clips of him pushing back on various guests to the best of his ability. It's totally fine that he's not particularly educated in any field, and it's totally fine that he wants to have conversations because he's curious. And also, in the past, I had seen kind of more balance on the roster, having different kinds of people. So, yes, he got one fringe right wing lunatic, but then you have this scientist come on. And then he explains things. So I was like, okay. I kind of, to an extent, had defended Joe in the past because we don't really have anything these days. We have so many echo chambers, and there's no, like, Dick Cavett show where everybody comes on. And so I was like, okay, Rogan is fine, but just the way that his roster is skewed lately and just so many, it's just disproportionately filled with these blatant charlatans. Billy Carson is a grifter and a Charlatan. Terrence Howard is. It's a little more defensible because I think he is actually genuinely extremely mentally ill. And everything he's saying, I mean, it's like, not only is there no pushback, and I had comments telling me in my video, no, Joe's just coaxing the crazy out of him because he knows it's good content. No. In the Billy Carson interview, he goes, how is Terry so smart? He's brilliant. Talking about the theory that stars poop out planets. I mean, literally, he said, defecate.

He said, they defecate planets. And it's like, dude, learn literally anything about astronomy here.

It's very damaging to society because not only does he give them the platform to run their grift, but with his credulity, it sort of amplifies the grift that they're spreading. And his viewership is so enormous that it does actual, quantitative, calculable harm to the social discourse. It really does.

I would relish the opportunity to tell Joe this to his face because I don't hate the guy and I think he's a good dude, but just, man, he needs a better bull detector and just a little bit more selectivity in who he brings on his platform. He needs more responsibility in that regard.

David Pakman
I think you sort of started to talk about this a little bit. I was going to ask you what your opinion is as to with these different characters. Do they believe the stuff they say, or is it something that they're doing because they think they can convince other people to follow them or for monetary reasons or whatever you sort of alluded to, Billy Carson probably knows the stuff's not true. Terrence seems to have some issues where maybe he does believe it. I was also going to bring up Tucker Carlson, who recently went on and confidently said that scientists have abandoned the theory of darwinian evolution. My reaction to that was, I'm pretty sure Tucker does know 100% that that's not true, but it's just he's increasingly trying to appeal to a certain audience. How do you assess their belief of this stuff?

Dave Farina
I mean, you, you have a track record of everything they've ever said, especially Tucker as a pundit. I mean, pundits, I feel, are notoriously pandering to a base. And as Tucker got pushed out of, you know, the major media outlets and is just desperately searching for an audience, I think he's going to say whatever he needs to say to, you know, it's like, like, you know, it's the same thing Russell brand is doing. He's just gotten completely insane and is now, like, what do I need to say to get millions of people to follow me? Okay, then that's what I say. I'll start a cult if I have to. So Tucker is like that. I mean, he's just absolutely shameless in what he says. Billy is just a run of the mill snake oil salesman, and grifter Terry is insane, but he's also a liar. I mean, he goes on there and confidently says, I have 97 patents for all. He doesn't have patents. Like what? He's just lying? Like, he's just lying?

David Pakman
You think he knows he doesn't have the patent? Like, in other words, some of this stuff might be mental illness, but with the patents. You think he just knows he doesn't really have any patents?

Dave Farina
I mean, I'm not an expert on mental illness, so maybe he's somewhere in the recesses of his mind, he's convinced himself he. I don't know. I'll leave that to a mental health professional. But he is definitely, obviously, not just saying things that are scientific nonsense, but flat out lies.

So I don't really care. I just. I want everyone to know what's right and what's wrong, and the rest can be sorted out by society. But, yeah, that's my job here.

David Pakman
So we've been speaking with Dave Farina. Please check out the YouTube channel professor Dave explains, filled with great meaty content.

Dave, always great talking to you. I really appreciate it.

Dave Farina
Thanks very much for having me.

David Pakman
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There's only one problem with that, which is that Joan Rivers passed away in 2014. And yet this did not stop confused Trump from insisting, no, no, no, she voted for me. She did. Listen to Rameen satude explain it to CNN's Caitlin Collins. This is genuinely serious and scary stuff.

Caitlin Collins
Can we just first start off about your sit downs with Trump six times after he left the White House, which, you know, is such a different period, thinking about what's happening in Virginia tonight and seeing his grip on the Republican Party. I mean, what was he like? What did you observe from him when you sat down with him?

Ramin Satude
So I interviewed Donald Trump more than any other journalist since he's left the White House. We started in May 2021. And that report you just talked about, about meandering and confusing is right. He goes from one story to the next. He struggles with the chronology of events. He seems very upset that he wasn't respected by certain celebrities in the White House, and then he'd go to a story about the apprentice. As you know, Caitlin, it's very challenging to interview Donald Trump and to go toe to toe with him, but there was some cognitive questions about where he was and what he was thinking, and he would, he would, from time to time, become confused.

Caitlin Collins
Because you wrote at one point about Joan Rivers, him telling you that she voted for him in 2016, I believe.

Ramin Satude
Even though he confidently told me and declared that Joan Rivers voted for him when he ran for president. And Joan Rivers died in 2014. Joan died in 2014, so she would not have been able to vote for Donald Trump.

David Pakman
Yeah.

Caitlin Collins
And you, because you talked about his memory, you wrote that, you know, on some days, I have the feeling he has no idea who he's even talking to, that he actually forgot or didn't remember that the two of you had spoken at your first sit down interview.

David Pakman
Right.

Ramin Satude
So my first sit down was in May. He wasn't doing a lot of interviews. And then we sat down again towards the end of the summer. And when I sat down, I, you know, there was a very blank expression on his face. So I asked, do you remember when we spoke recently? And he said, no, I have no memory of that.

And he couldn't recall. He said, it was a long time ago. And then we had to start from scratch. So the interview started from square one, where he was, started telling me the same exact stories that we, that we, I heard in our first interview.

David Pakman
Now, I know that there are people who are going to, let's get back to the Joan Rivers thing in a second. There are people who will hear this and they'll say, trump's such a busy guy, he's a narcissist.

It's not a big deal that he didn't remember ever having met Ramin Satude or having done an hour interview with him that doesn't really make any sense. And even as someone as narcissistic and high profile as Trump, if you're doing a series of six extensive sit down interviews in your home with the same journalist, there's not really a reasonable explanation for why you would forget about that. From May to August, for example. It just doesn't make sense now on insisting that Joan Rivers voted for him despite the fact that she was dead at the time of the 2016 election. That's very, very concerning. And unfortunately, and this isn't funny, we just can't really have someone in power who is compromised in this way.

At another point, this, it's, it's so sad, Trump said to Satude, I've got to go upstairs and deal with Afghanistan. He wasn't president at the time, and he actually referred to it as the Afghanistan incredible.

Caitlin Collins
Your biggest takeaways from sitting down with him, you know, right after I've left the White House, when his political power is probably the lowest it's been since 2015, and how he reflected on when he was hosting the Apprentice and the ratings were soaring in that first season and just kind of what that looked like for him.

Ramin Satude
He was very deflated. He was conflicted. He was angry about the way in which the press had treated him. He still believed that he won the election.

And he was happiest when he talked to me about hosting the Apprentice. It was the thing that brought him the most joy. We watched clips of the show together. We watched the theme song, and he really lit up. He watched his firing of Omarosa, and then he would talk about what he did at the White House, and he would become gloomy and resentful and unhappy and refer to Afghanistan and Joe Biden.

But he also seemed to think that he still had some foreign policy powers. And there was one day where he told me he needed to go upstairs to deal with Afghanistan, even though he clearly didn't.

Caitlin Collins
He told you that he, while you were interviewing him at Trump Tower, he told you he needed to go upstairs.

David Pakman
To deal with Afghanistan, with the, quote.

Ramin Satude
The Afghanistan is how he referred to it.

Caitlin Collins
I mean, it's a remarkable experience. It's a remarkable book.

David Pakman
Speaker one, do people realize how serious this is? Can you imagine? I've got to go deal with the Afghanistan upstairs, sir. You're not president now. I've got to go deal with it. And here's the saddest thing about this. I know some of you are thinking right now about Trump's father. I know that if I didn't say what I'm about to say, many of you would email me and they'd say, David, what Rameen Satude is talking about is verbatim what was going on with Trump's father. Trump's father had dementia, Alzheimer's.

And one of the things that was set up for Trump's father was he would go to his office, he would have a secretary, an assistant of some kind, he would have a phone and papers at his desk, and it was set up for him to think that he was still working. He would pick up the phone, he would talk to the secretary, he would shuffle the papers around. It was nonsense. He wasn't running the company at that point. He didn't have the capacity to run the company at that point. Trump thinking, I'm going upstairs to deal with Afghanistan, is strikingly similar. Similar. Strikingly similar. Similar to what was going on with Fred Trump later on in his life. So listen, this is extraordinarily serious stuff so far. Other than just blanket general denials, there isn't any serious refutation of what Rameen Satude is saying. Not only that, these are such specific claims that I can't imagine him making them up in the way that some MAGA defenders are saying. So this all is very, very bad if Trump does become president. It's also bad for in terms of what it says about Trump's health. But if there is any kind of glimmer of positivity or hope here, it's some new polling that looks very good for President Joe Biden. Let's talk about that next. There is a politically deadly new poll out. If true, that would essentially mean Trump cannot win. Now, I'm going to couch this as no one poll tells us everything we need to know, but there is a new poll by Redfield and Wilton strategies which finds that 5%, one out of 20 Donald Trump voters from 2020 are switching to Joe Biden.

With how close this election is expected to be, if one out of 20 Trump voters switches to Joe Biden, uniformly across the country, right? So roughly by the same margin in blue states, red states, and competitive states Trump could not win.

Let's take a look at the article, and then we will discuss about one in 20 people who voted for Trump in 2020 plan to vote for Biden. According to a new poll, the presumptive republican nominee will face Biden in November. Polls have shown it's going to be a tight election with a statistical tie or only marginal leads. Some polls, however, point to a number of voters flipping from their 2020 ballot, according to research by Redfield and Wilton strategies. 5% of Trump 2020 voters now say they plan to vote for Biden. This is more than the 3% of people who voted Biden 2020 and say they plan to vote for Trump. That is a net 2% swing towards Biden. If this is a major if, if the poll reflects reality, and if Biden does get a net two percentage point boost uniformly distributed across the country, Trump cannot win. Now, I am not suggesting that that is exactly what is going to happen. The best case scenario, of course, would be very high turnout, which makes that 2% as significant as possible.

Uncommitted voters, to the extent that they exist. And part of me is like, how could you possibly be uncommitted at this point? But they exist. Uncommitted voters realize Trump's not the better choice.

And we do get that. 5% of Trump voters that flips to Biden with a 2% net gain. Given the 3% that are going Biden, Trump supposedly Trump will lose. Trump will completely lose his mind. And then maybe it opens the door to future convictions, if there are any leading to actually putting Donald Trump in prison once and for all. Now, that is of an extraordinarily rosy scenario. And if I'm completely honest with you, I'm not going to. I don't do the thing on this show where I artificially raise the alarm. I just tell it to you the way I see it, which is it'll probably be close, but there is a real chance that polling is underestimating how terribly Trump is positioned right now. It's not a guarantee. It's not a reason to stay home. But if you zoom out and you see numbers, like one out of 20 Trump voters are planning to vote Biden. Trump already lost in 2020. That was before he incited a riot. It was before he was indicted four times. It was before he was found civilly liable for sexual assault and defamation. It was before his 34 felony convictions.

That's really the bottom line. Nothing has changed in Trump's favor. And I know that Trump and Maga insist the indictments helped Trump. Trump didn't really seem to help him in fundraising, and now they're saying the conviction helped Trump.

Joe Biden still fundraising, blowing him out of the water. He conclusively lost in 2020 by 115,000 votes in three states. But everything has gotten worse for him since then. So there is the possibility that this is going to be an historic defeat against Donald Trump. Trump. There's the possibility that it will be very, very close. We now ignore the polls and we go and vote, because the, the caveat that stops us short from saying this thing is over is that this is a very sick country in many ways. It's a country that elected Trump in 2016. It's a country that still has, at minimum, tens of millions of people that are planning to vote for Donald Trump. And so whether it's 60, 70, 80, or 90 million, it's still a sickness that we have in this country. And so we can't stay home. We have to go and vote with the awareness, with the awareness that there is a case to be made that this could be a disaster, not just for Trump, but for the Republican Party more broadly, a disaster from which they may not recover for a while. It's up to us to make it so. And that's the reason I'll be voting in November. We have a voicemail number. That number is two one nine to David P. Here is a caller who really thinks he's got me with this one. He really does. Take a listen to this speaker.

Speaker 2
Two, can you name for me any proposal of the left that makes things less expensive?

Not free.

Free is not considered less expensive. Free has another purpose.

I can give you at least three things that the left promotes and makes things more expensive.

David Pakman
Okay.

Speaker 2
Taxation makes everything more expensive.

Green energy, you know, Teslas and solar panels makes things more expensive.

And now this new EPA requirement makes h vac more expensive.

Those are three things, three proposals, three policies of the left that make things more expensive.

Oh, I forgot, you know, well, anyway, food.

David Pakman
Okay. So, first and foremost, I don't know why he's allowed to set the guidelines and say, david, give me examples of things the left proposed that would make something less expensive. Not free, but less expensive. Why? Like, I don't, why does he get to set the terms? But that's ok. I'll still answer it. A public option for health insurance. It doesn't make anything free. But the idea is it makes it less expensive. And indeed, the public option through Obamacare did put downward pressure on prices. Now, the problem is, because health insurance gets more expensive every year anyway. What it did in practice is slow down the growth rate.

Okay, but the health insurance marketplace, not everybody calls it a public option. Public option, maybe something a little different. But the whole point was it makes things less expensive but not free. Negotiating prescription drug prices and bringing big pharma to the table, it doesn't make drugs free, but it makes them less expensive. There's another example. Subsidizing childcare and early education. It doesn't make it free. It makes it less expensive. Again, I don't know why we're bound to less expensive but not free. But I'm playing along with what the caller says.

Affordable housing initiatives, they don't make housing free. They make it less expensive. Subsidizing and investing in public transit, it doesn't make it free. It makes it less expensive. Capping the cost of higher education, it doesn't make it free. It just makes it less expensive. And then utility rate regulation, it doesn't make it free. It makes it less expensive. So it's one of these things where it's like, all right, you're setting arbitrary guidelines for a debate.

I've given you six examples.

But what have we proven, what have we actually proven about the broader worldview and approach to governance and what's better for the individual? I don't think we've proven anything, but at least as far as refuting this arbitrarily and abstract narrowing of the debate, there are six examples of proposals that seek not to make things free but to make them more affordable. Tell me where we go now. All right. We have a great bonus show for you today.

Half a million immigrants could be put on a path to us citizenship under a new plan from the Biden administration.

It's actually, it doesn't fix DACA. It deals with a different aspect, but it's very, very interesting. Thailand becomes the first southeast asian country to legalize same sex marriage. And Matt Gaetz is now being investigated for sexual misconduct and for drug claims. Will this finally be the one that takes down gates? Honestly? Probably not. But I'll tell you what's being investigated, where the evidence points and much more. Don't miss Today's bonus show, one of many member benefits for those who sign up@joinpakman.com.

Dave Farina
Speaker one oh, the bonus show where you want to make money.

David Pakman
Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad. Exactly. You can sign up@joinpakman.com. you can use the coupon code, savedemocracy 24. I hope to see you on today's bonus show. Otherwise, I'll see you back here tomorrow.