5/27/24: Rudy Giuliani and fake electors indicted, AZ House votes to repeal abortion law (CLASSIC EPISODE FROM 4/25/24)

David Pakman
Hey, this is David Pakman inviting you to enjoy a classic episode of the David Pakman show today. We will return with new shows before you know it.

We start today with more alleged criminality. Trump's fake electors in Arizona indicted Rudy Giuliani for his involvement in that script scam. Indicted. I did everything right and they indicted me. Well, we will see. This is extraordinary news and the correct decision that has been made by a grand jury. Let's talk about it. NBC News reporting. Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani and Arizona fake electors charged with state crimes. The state attorney general announced the indictments of Trump aides and allies after an investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election. I want to remind you what this was all about.

As many of you know, we have a system in the United States where each state holds its own presidential election.

The winner of each state is actually voted for by electors rather than directly by the voters. The voters in Arizona vote for Trump or Biden. If Biden wins, what they have essentially done is sent a bunch of Biden electors to say, we cast our electoral votes for Joe Biden, sort of like a point system. Each state assigned a number of points. What the fake electors, what Trump and his surrogates like Rudy Giuliani and others tried to do in Arizona was despite the fact that the Arizona popular vote was won by Joe Biden and that it should have been Biden electors who said, we cast our electoral votes for Biden, they tried to send in a substitute team of electors that would vote for Trump, even though they had no basis whatsoever to do that. And at some point you would think logic would kick in for these electors and they would say, wait a second, Trump didn't win Arizona. I have no legal, electoral, ethical, moral, empirical or logical basis to show up as an elector and say we cast our electoral votes for Donald Trump. At some point you would think that thought would kick in and they would say, hey, maybe this is a bad idea. Maybe this is something I will get in trouble for doing. But that apparently did not happen, and now they are going to have to face consequences. The NBC article goes on to say state grand jury indicted Trump aides, including Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, Boris Epstein, as well as the so called fake electors who backed then President Trump in 2020. This is all after a sprawling investigation into the alleged efforts to overturn the election results.

The summary of what took place from NBC is that one month after the 2020 election, eleven Trump supporters convened at the Arizona Republican Party headquarters in Phoenix to sign its a certificate claiming fraudulently claiming I would add to be Arizona's eleven electors to the electoral college. Even though Biden won by over 10,000 votes and state officials certified Joe Biden's electors, the state Republican Party documented the signing of the certificate in a social media post, sent it to Congress and the national archives. Fascinatingly, Donald Trump is described as an unindicted co conspirator, number one in the indictment, which includes charges of conspiracy, fraud and forgery. The document also describes people who have been charged in the case but not yet served and whose names are redacted. MeAdOws, former White House chief of staff Giuliani, former New York City mayor and Trump lawyer Epstein, a Trump campaign official and attorney, and then others you may or may not have heard of, Mike Roman, Jenna Ellis, Christina Bob, John Eastman and others.

This is all fantastic news. And it is not fantastic news because we want to circumvent law, circumvent law and order, and indict or imprison people simply because we don't like them politically. It is because we defend and support law and order. And when you look at what was done here, any, you apply the reasonable person, test any reasonable person, when told, how about this? Show up, sign that you're an elector for Trump, and we'll send this in and file these documents through a legal process, an administrative process, even though we have no actual basis in fact to do it. Any reasonable person, maybe not a five year old, right? But any reasonable adult would have said, this doesn't sound right, this could be illegal, it certainly sounds immoral, it's absolutely unethical. I could get in trouble for this. And so now they are going to have to face the consequences, hopefully at least having to lawyer up and going through this legal process. They have been indicted, Trump and unindicted co conspirator, and we will see where all of it lands sometime in the next 612, 18 months. These things do move slowly, but they do move, and we're going to be following it very closely. Let's stay in Arizona, where the Arizona House, not the Senate, but the House in Arizona, has voted to repeal the 1864, not a typo, not a joke, folks, 1864 near total abortion ban, which includes no exceptions for rape, no exceptions for incest, which was triggered into force by the overturning of Roe v. Wade at the Supreme Court and the upholding of the 1864 abortion law by the Arizona Supreme Court.

This is, to call it antiquated is not nearly a strong enough word. This is dark ages grotesque stuff. And there are some in Arizona who are ready to say no more. The Washington Post reports Arizona House votes to repeal Civil War era abortion ban. Three Republicans crossed party lines to vote with Democrats. So understand that all but three Republicans in the Arizona House want to keep this bill. If passed by the Senate. The Arizona governor, Katie Hobbs, says that she will sign it. Here is a report from ABC 15 in Arizona about what took place yesterday.

Speaker B
Breaking news coming from the state Capitol right now, where the Arizona House just voted to repeal that near total ban on abortions from 1864. It's that territorial era law that the Arizona Supreme Court ruled to reinstate just two weeks ago. Now, this was a narrow margin here. It was a 32 to 28 vote in the Arizona House. And as we mentioned, it comes as two weeks after the state supreme court issued that historic ruling to reinstate that restriction, only allowing exceptions in cases when the life of the mother was in danger. Now, this is just the first step of several that needs to take place in the legislative process. So from here, now that it's passed in the Arizona House, it's going to have to go to the Senate, where it would then have to be signed by Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs, who's already said that she would support it. Now, in a statement that just came in, Governor Katie Hobbs says that she is, quote, thankful to House Democrats for leading this effort and calls on the Senate to approve this measure quickly.

David Pakman
So now it goes on to the Senate, and that will be the next question mark surrounding this. We have a situation in the United States right now that doesn't often take place, to be perfectly frank. And that situation is that we have a republican party that is mostly happy with bragging about. And when it comes to Donald Trump taking credit for something that is very unpopular with the american people, and no matter how many Arizona Republicans insist this is a pro life state, it's a pro life state, and this is the right law for us, no matter how many of them claim that Arizona is a purple state. And even many Republicans at this point in time, given the 60% to 80% support for abortion being legal in most cases in the country, even Arizona is a state where a majority says that abortion should be legal in most cases.

So now we have a real question. Are we going to see voters vote in accordance with what their political views are? Are we going to see republican voters in Arizona say, oh, okay, I'm a republican. I want low regulation, I want low taxes.

Whatever else historically, Republicans want. But when it comes to the threat to democracy that Trump presents, when it comes to just the basics of a woman's bodily autonomy and right to decide for herself with whoever she wants to consult with, not involving the government, what is the right medical decision for her?

I can't stick with these dark ages Republicans anymore. I can't stick with this faux populist trumpian nonsense anymore. And maybe some will stay home and maybe some will vote, vote for Joe Biden or whatever the case may be, and then is that going to happen at the federal level? Trump goes back and forth as to how he wants to play this. Trump sometimes will take credit and say, I did that. I repealed Roe v. Wade through the three Supreme Court justices I selected who ultimately voted to repeal it. You can thank or blame me for it. He has been very clearly saying, well, most people say blame rather than thank because they don't like it. Are they going to vote in accordance with that in November? On the other hand, Trump has also taken a different approach, which is, listen, different things are right for different states. Some conservative states might do one thing with abortion. Some conservative, some liberal states might do something different. It's all good as long as you vote for me is sort of like the hidden ellipsis statement there.

And there are many anti choicers who are furious with Trump. Fine, you repealed Roe v. Wade, but how can you say that you're okay with states doing sort of whatever they want to do? That's not right. And maybe they will punish Trump in November as well. So I don't know what's going to happen. I still believe that at the end of the day, this is a presidential election that will come down to, as they have every time recently, somewhere between 100,500 thousand votes in somewhere between three and five, maybe three and six states, if a ton of people in California are really angry with the, the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and it grows Biden's margin of victory by half a million votes, great. It's not going to change the electoral outcome, because California is not in play. And those, I believe it's 55 electoral votes, those are going for Biden, whether it's by a 30, 40, or 50 point margin. And so I hope I'm being clear and precise here when I explain how what will matter is what happens in Pennsylvania as a result of Trump bragging about getting Roe v. Wade overturned, what happens in Arizona or Georgia, Michigan and Wisconsin? And I don't have the answer. But what I know is I'll be getting out to vote. I know I'm a broken record on this by now, but I'm not going to let someone else vote and have no voice myself, I will make sure to vote, and that's the approach I believe that we should all be taking. So let's take a quick break. We're going to hear from just a couple of sponsors, unless you have the commercial free members only feed of the show, I want to talk about the Gateway pundit bankruptcy, which many of you wrote to me about, and so many other things, including a recent speech that Joe Biden gave, which I thought was quite interesting.

Many, many interesting things on today's program.

Don't forget that the best way to support the David Pakman show is by becoming a member, which gives you access to the daily bonus show, the regular show with no commercials. You also get access to our entire archive of every episode dating back a really long time, and plenty of other awesome membership perks. Go to join pacman.com join pacman.com dot the David Pakman show is an audience supported program. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the new members that have signed up since the new website launched about ten or 14 days ago.

Thank you to everybody and you can sign up@joinpakman.com. you can get the full commercial free experience of the show every single day. We also do an extra show for our members every weekday. All of that at join pacman.com. and of course, you can use the coupon code SaveDemocracy 24 to save about 50% off of the cost of a membership. The founder of the Gateway pundit, Jim Hoff, has declared bankruptcy. This is truly one of those mess around and find out sort of moments. This is an infamous conspiracy theorist who ran and runs an infamous conspiracy theory website called the Gateway Pundit. They put out a statement yesterday which reads, quote, TGP Communications, the parent company of the Gateway pundit, recently made the decision to seek protection under chapter eleven of the United States Bankruptcy Code in the Southern District of Florida as a result of the progressive liberal law fair attacks against our media outlet. They go on to say this is not an admission of fault or culpability.

This is a common tool for reorganization and to consolidate litigation when attacks are coming from all sides. It allows the Gateway pundit to consolidate this law fair in one court for ultimate resolution. Now, what's at issue here is that those Georgia election workers, Ruby Freeman and her daughter, Shay Moss, these are the same names that should ring a bell from the Rudy Giuliani defamation suit. They sued the Gateway pundit in 2021, and they said Jim and Joe Hoft, the brothers who run this conspiracy site, they, quote, engaged in a campaign of lies that instigated a deluge of intimidation, harassment, and threats that has forced them to change their phone numbers, delete online accounts, and fear for their physical safety. Not totally dissimilar from what Rudy Giuliani did and is accused of doing, and for which a judgment was assessed against Giuliani. This is one of the really, really, really bottom of the barrel conspiracy sites. And many of you in the audience gleefully wrote to me saying, this is absolutely fantastic news. Listen, as many of you know, I am not a free speech, total absolutist, but if it's not illegal, I want it to simply be subject to the free market of ideas. And they've published a lot of really, really bad ideas and disinformation over the years. If you go back to 2016, the Gateway pundit published the Hillary Clinton's health stories making up various health conditions that Hillary Clinton supposedly had. They published voter fraud lies about 2016 and 2020.

They have a very long record of misidentifying when there's a mass shooting or a terror attack. They will regularly misidentify or blame individuals who had nothing to do with these events. They did it after Charlottesville in 2017. They did it after the Las Vegas shooting in 2017. They did it after the Stoneman Douglas high school shooting.

I forget what year that was. And they also repeated endless, endless lies about the 2020 election that to a great degree, attempted to bolster or corroborate much of what you were hearing from Trump and from people surrounding Donald Trump. Covid-19 misinformation to a dangerous degree. And they also jumped in on the birther nonsense, perpetuating the false claim that former President Barack Obama was not born in the United States. So it's a very, very long list. Now, am I happy about this? Listen, it's one of these things where it's sort of like when you say, do I want someone locked up? Well, in a vacuum. I'm not for denying due process to people and imprisoning them simply because I don't like their ideas. If there is evidence they committed crimes, then they should be indicted, they should be tried, and if found guilty, they should be sentenced in accordance with what the law says. This is a case where the gateway pundit has spread some of the most vile and corrosive lies and conspiracy theories and disinformation that we have seen.

There are individuals who say, we have suffered at the hands of the gateway pundit. We believe we have a civil case against them. They filed it now the gateway pundit has filed for bankruptcy. Happy is not necessarily the right word for me, but this is bottom of the barrel, grotesque stuff that these people publish. And if their actions logically correspond to them no longer being able to spread this stuff, I would argue it's a good thing for society.

It's not about me going out and demanding people be silenced. It's not about me demanding that the government, in some First Amendment violating way silence people. But it may be the just and correct consequences of their actions that they lose their business and they lose their website. By the way, it is not untrue that this is a formal reorganization, the chapter eleven bankruptcy. It may not actually kick them offline or prevent them from continuing to publish this stuff. So we're going to follow it. It may be the just consequences of their actions. President Joe Biden is a sort of new and renewed Joe Biden since the State of the Union address, despite wrongly reading the word pause, which was an instruction to him, not part of the script off of the teleprompter yesterday. Joe Biden overall gave a very good speech yesterday in accepting the endorsement of the NABtu union trade union. And I have to tell you, I like this sort of new Biden. I started getting hints of this when I met with the vice president, Kamala Harris in DC on the day of the State of the Union. We saw this kind of renewed energy in the State of the Union from Joe Biden, and we're continuing to see a more aggressive Biden. I like it. The question is, will it work? What will it do with, with his poll numbers?

Here is Biden speaking yesterday and taking a direct shot at his opponent, Donald Trump.

Joe Biden
Donald Trump still thinks windmills cause cancer.

That's what he said.

By the way. Remember when he was trying to deal with COVID He said, just injected a little bleach in your veins.

He missed it all went to his hair.

I shouldn't have said that.

David Pakman
I like this stuff and I know that. Listen, Biden's never going to be the most, he's never again going to be. Ten years ago, it was a different Biden. He's never again going to be the explosively entertaining high, super high energy speaker that others are, and maybe Biden once was.

But I like this better than the low, super low energy Joe Biden. Biden addressing Trump wanting to give the very wealthy tax cuts.

Joe Biden
He wants to know that he wants to give another massive tax cut for the wealthy. And he also says he wants to cut your Medicare and Social Security. And you're going to let him not have.

David Pakman
Now, to be super clear, Trump said that those entitlements must be on the table. He didn't, to my knowledge, say I plan to cut them, but he certainly alluded to being open to it.

Joe Biden
By the way, these guys mean this stuff.

They mean it.

And the republican caucus went ahead and said they want to do that, too. Look, folks, I remember there used to be two parties, real parties, you know, but this ain't your father's Republican Party. This is a different breed of cat.

Look, I got a better idea.

I'm going to protect Social Security, Medicare, by making the very wealthy begin to pay their fair share of those.

David Pakman
So we know Biden's general perspective on taxation, and he's certainly espousing it there also. I mean, this is accepting at the end of the day, a union endorsement. Here is Biden talking about his pro union credentials.

Joe Biden
You know, I've walked proudly in union picking lines while at the same time Trump bashed unions from non union shock.

Are you surprised?

Look, I want to sign the pro act and the law.

Trump said he'd veto it.

Trump said he'd veto it. Beyond that, he supports a national right to work law, for God's sake.

Think about it. What is the single biggest killer could happen? A national right to work law.

Look, he might as well say he doesn't support any unions.

David Pakman
And listen, presidents have pros and cons. No president is nearly perfect. I can't think of a more pro union, outwardly pro union president than Joe Biden. Certainly in 50 years, probably in 100 years, and maybe ever. And no sitting president has gone out and joined striking workers on the picket line. And it's not just optics, because he does support unions. Now, you might say that's bad, but if you are someone who believes in supporting labor, at least partially through the support of unions, Biden is doing it. And then Biden sort of joking about perpetual infrastructure week under President Donald Trump. Speaker two.

Joe Biden
Trump promises, I gotta be careful.

He promises infrastructure week.

Well, I tell you what, took four years, he never built a damn thing. Nothing. I'm serious.

David Pakman
I guess he built 90 miles of wall or something like that.

Joe Biden
Are you surprised?

I'm sure. I'm making sure the projects like project labor agreements, so highly skilled workers have a voice on the job. But even before Trump was president, Trump preferred non union workers and his real estate projects. And I won't get into the stories, but anyway, even that, he didn't keep his word. He just asked contractors, vendors, and small businesses and if you read in the press, if any of it's true, he never paid them a whole hell of a lot of them. The guy has never worked a day in work a man's boots.

David Pakman
So I'll be honest, I like this. This is what we were starting to get an inkling of around the time of the state of the union. I see no reason to pull back from these more direct attacks on failed former President Donald Trump. I see no reason to do anything, anything different. Of course, there are people clutching their pearls and crying crocodile tears after this, saying, oh, this is just, it's so insulting and the tone and. Give me a break, guys. Give me, give me an absolute break. It's mostly from the right, but some on the left. I think this is the right approach for 2024. You run each campaign the way that particular campaign needs to be run. And this is having a real impact on polling.

And that's what I want to talk about next. Even Fox News is admitting the polling is not looking great for Donald Trump.

Fox News hosts apparently left with nothing other than to sort of admit what's going on are acknowledging Trump's in trouble. There are a number of signs here that don't look good for Trump. The shifting of the polls away from Donald Trump is not good for Trump. The fact that 157,000 people came out to vote for Nikki Haley two days ago in Pennsylvania, despite the fact that she's been out of the race for weeks, months, at this point in time, even Fox News is now acknowledging this is not really the best sign for Trump. Here is Fox acknowledging the Nikki Haley voters, Donald Trump and President Biden, clinching their respective primaries in a key battleground state. Biden took more than 90% of the democratic vote in Pennsylvania's closed primary. But the surprise of the night came from the GOP race. There were still more than 100,000 voters casting their ballots for former candidate Nikki Haley. Right now. You might remember she suspended her campaign last month after ballots had been printed. Yeah, I don't know that it's necessarily a surprise in the sense that there are a lot of Republicans who don't want more Trump at this point in time. Another report on Fox about, with, by the way, the right number, it's not 100,000, it's 150,000 coming out and voting for Nikki Haley, despite the fact that it's been over for months.

Speaker B
Speaking of a protest vote, Stewart Nikki Haley received 16% of the vote yesterday. About 150,000 people voted for her. And that is an interesting, because she dropped out about two months ago. So look, if former president Trump is going to win Pennsylvania, it's going to have to coalesce the Republican Party here in Pennsylvania.

David Pakman
So let's look at the numbers. And this is very interesting. First and foremost, indeed, the Pennsylvania primary results. Donald Trump with 790,000 votes Tuesday night, Nikki Haley with 157,000 votes, despite the fact that Trump clinched this and that Nikki Haley has been out for weeks, if not months. So think about that for a second. What does it mean for 157,000 Republicans to go out when all is lost? Trump has the delegates, Trump has the nomination and say, I'm still going to go out and vote for Nikki Haley. That is certainly a sign that could be a problem for Trump in November. And here are the numbers from 2020 that really only confirm this. If we go back to Pennsylvania results in the general in 2020, you may recall that Joe Biden only won by 81,000 votes and Pennsylvania is 20 electoral votes. And it is a big deal in terms of the path for Biden to victory.

And when you look at 157,000 people going out to vote for Nikki Haley, just to remind everybody, we really don't like Trump, and you realize the margin in 2020 was only 81,000.

It is potentially a very bad sign for Donald Trump that that's what happened on Tuesday night. So we're going to follow it.

Pennsylvania, if you think about the five states most likely to be difference makers in November, Pennsylvania is on that list. If you narrow it to three, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Arizona alone, flipping means Trump is president. If they stay with Biden, very difficult for Trump to secure the presidency. So this is a very, very important thing. Pennsylvania Republicans, there's sort of like, if you go to western Pennsylvania, it's much more MAGA Republicans. If you stay in eastern Pennsylvania, it's much more Romney McCain type Republicans. They may end up being the difference makers for Joe Biden in 2024. So a very interesting result. Let's take a very short break. After the break, we will examine claims of criminality against Biden, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and also Trump. I'll tell you everything they are all accused of, and we will see what the facts say. If you value what we do at the David Pakman show, remember to support us on Patreon, go to patreon.com David Pakman show, where you can get access to behind the scenes videos, the daily bonus show, the commercial free daily show. You can support the show for as little as $2 a month. Check it out@patreon.com. davidpakmanshow we're often hearing from the modern right wing that if they are going to go after Trump for any of the reasons they're going after him, meaning the indictments that you have to look at the criminality of Joe Biden, or what about the criminality of Hillary Clinton? Or what about the criminality of Barack Obama.

So let's examine each of these in turn to really understand what's going on here. And we'll start, of course, with Donald Trump. Donald Trump's state indictment on business fraud charges in New York accuses Trump of violating New York state law by obscuring reimbursements to his former lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, who made this $130,000 hush money payment to the adult film star Stormy Daniels days before the 2016 election. And what prosecutors allege is that Trump portrayed the reimbursements as a legal expense and Michael Cohen himself is a key witness against him in this case. The indictment includes 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree.

Trump has pleaded not guilty, and the trial, which started with jury selection on April 15, is expected to last six to eight weeks. We then have the federal indictment on classified documents charges in Florida, Trump faces accusations of unlawfully retaining classified documents after leaving the White House and storing them in various locations at Mar a Lago, including a ballroom, a bathroom and a bedroom. He's also accused of a scheme to conceal the documents, and co defendants include an aide to Trump and a property manager at Mar a Lago. That indictment comprises 40 counts, including unlawful retention of national defense information, conspiracy to obstruct justice, and false statements. Trump pleaded not guilty. Prosecutors have proposed the trial date of July 8, which the defense argued would be unfair before the November election. Then we have the federal indictment in the 2020 election interference case, where Trump is accused of participating in a scheme to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power after losing the 2020 election, of course, to now President Joe Biden. That indictment says Trump spread lies about election fraud leading up to January 6 Capitol attack. Trump and six unnamed co conspirators face charges including conspiracy to defraud the US and obstruction of an official proceeding. Trump has pleaded not guilty.

That trial was originally scheduled for March 4, but postponed as Trump appealed a claim of presidential immunity to the Supreme Court. Arguments on the claim are set for April 25. And lastly, we have the state indictment in the 2020 election interference case in Fulton County, Georgia, where Trump and 18 others face charges under Georgia's Ricoh statute for allegedly coordinating efforts to thwart the proper certification of Georgia's 2020 presidential election. The indictment stems from a recorded phone call where Trump famously pressured Georgia's secretary of state to, quote, fined 11,780 votes. Trump was initially charged with 13 counts, including conspiracy to commit forgery, filing false documents. Some counts were quashed, leaving ten. He and all co defendants pleaded not guilty.

That trial is ongoing, with several co defendants accepting plea deals and pleading guilty to reduced charges. There is also obstruction of justice. Trump allegedly attempted to impede or interfere with investigations into russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, including by firing FBI director James Comey. You'll remember the Mueller report outlined several instances where Trump may have obstructed justice, such as instructing aides to remove the special counsel and after firing FBI Director James Comey. There was ultimately no definitive conclusion reached on whether he committed a crime, and it was left up to Congress to decide. Now, many of Trump's closest advisers, including campaign manager Paul Manafort, his national security adviser Michael Flynn, also George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Roger Stone, they were convicted as part of that investigation and some serve time in prison.

We then have the New York tax evasion and fraud. Trump recently lost a civil case presented by Attorney General Letitia James to the tune of $454 million. He was found to have engaged in tax evasion and fraud, including inflating his assets to obtain loans and deflating them to reduce his tax liability. And though it remained a civil matter, legal experts argue that a criminal case could have been brought. We have the Ukraine call abuse of power situation Trump was accused of abusing power by pressuring Ukraine to investigate his political rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden. This all centered around a phone call that took place on July 25, 2019, between Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky, which Trump has called a perfect phone call. Trump allegedly urged Zelensky to launch investigations into the Bidens and into a debunked conspiracy theory about the 2016 election. Now, you'll recall that Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress related to the Ukraine scandal. He was ultimately acquitted by the Senate. This was his first of two impeachments, the following one on after January 6. We also have the sexual misconduct allegations, where numerous women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct, including harassment and assault, over a period of several decades. He recently lost an $83 million defamation case to Eugene Carroll stemming from those sexual assault accusations. Trump has denied all allegations of sexual misconduct.

He has dismissed them as politically motivated attacks, with some cases settled out of court and others remaining unresolved. We also have the Trump University fraud accusations claim that Trump University, a for profit real estate training program, defrauded students by making false promises of success and pressuring them to purchase expensive courses. Multiple lawsuits were filed against Trump University alleging fraud and deceptive business practices, and it ended up with Trump settling for $25 million in 2016 without admitting any wrongdoing. So those are the allegations and problems of Trump. Let's now talk about Joe Biden and the allegations against him.

Ukraine corruption to start with, accusations suggest that Joe Biden as vice president pressured the ukrainian government to fire a prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who was investigating a company that his son Hunter Biden was involved in in exchange for foreign aid.

This has led to multiple investigations and fact checking organizations, all of which have found no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden. The prosecutor in question was widely seen as corrupt by the international community. Biden's actions were consistent with us foreign policy objectives and supported by many western governments and organizations. China corruption Republicans suggest that Joe Biden is compromised and exhibits leniency towards China because of his family's financial ties and business dealings with chinese entities. There is no concrete evidence to support the claims that Biden is compromised by China or that he is exhibiting undue favoritism towards China. There are questions about Hunter Biden's business activities in China that have come up. There is no evidence linking any of it to Joe Biden's policies or decision making regarding China. And then we have the allegations of involvement in shell companies and money laundering. Allegations that imply Joe Biden's family uses shell companies to hide illicit funds or engage in money laundering. Republicans claim that multiple banks accused the Bidens of money laundering based on suspicious activity reports filed with the Treasury Department. The unfortunate reality for those making the allegations is that the characterization of the corporate entities associated with the Biden family as shell companies is completely misleading and without merit. Many of those entities had outwardly stated purposes, including legal and consulting services.

And while questions about the transparency of these transactions may arise, we have no evidence at all to support claims of illegal activity like money laundering. And while suspicious activity reports were filed concerning financial transactions involving the Biden family, there is no evidence to suggest that they were accused of money laundering by multiple banks. Joe Biden has also loaned money to his brother and made payments on Hunter Biden's truck. But that is obviously not illegal and it is not evidence of money laundering. Joe Biden and classified documents the report by special counsel Robert her suggests that Biden willfully retained and disclosed highly classified materials when he was a private citizen, some of which was stored in his garage. Biden's memory lapses and retention of classified documents, especially from his time as vice president, have raised concerns about his handling of sensitive information and his ability to serve as president. But despite evidence of Biden's memory limitations and retention of classified materials, the report concludes that no criminal charges against him are warranted. The report acknowledges Biden's cooperation with authorities and draws a really clear distinction between his case and Trump's, where Trump resisted turning over documents and faces multiple felony counts related to classified materials. So those are the allegations against Joe Biden. We now come to Hillary Clinton, who Trump said would be locked up if it were up to him and many have said should be in prison.

We have the email scandal. Accusations suggest that Hillary Clinton mishandled classified information by using a private email server during her tenure as secretary of state. Multiple investigations, including by the FBI, found no evidence of criminal intent or criminal wrongdoing. Clinton's use of a private email server was criticized for breaching protocol. It did not result in criminal charges. We have the Benghazi attack Hillary Clinton was accused of negligence and incompetence regarding the security measures leading up to the 2012 Benghazi attack. It resulted in the deaths of four Americans, including the us ambassador to Libya. There have been numerous investigations, including by the republican led House Select Committee on Benghazi. They found no evidence of deliberate wrongdoing or negligence by Hillary Clinton, and it concluded that security measures were insufficient. But it did not say it is Hillary Clinton's fault. We also have the Clinton foundation pay to play allegations which say that the Clinton foundation accepted donations from foreign governments and entities in exchange for political favors while Hillary Hillary Clinton was secretary of state. There are interactions between Clinton foundation donors and the State Department that were rightly criticized as potential conflicts of interest, but no concrete evidence of pay to play arrangements have been found. Many of the accusations are based on speculation rather than factual evidence. It may be influence peddling, potentially unethical, but there is no evidence of criminality as far as that or Hillary Clinton in general are concerned.

And we come to former president Barack Obama. We have, of course, the Obamagate scandal of illegal spying, which is always just out of reach to explain exactly what it is. But if I understand it at all, these are accusations that the Obama administration spied on political opponents, specifically the Trump campaign, during the 2016 election. Trump called it Obamagate. He couldn't really explain it. He said it was the worst crime ever committed, the political crime of the century.

There is a lot to say and not a lot to say because investigations, including those by the Department of Justice inspector general, found no evidence of politically motivated spying on the Trump campaign by the Obama administration. Surveillance warrants were obtained through legal channels with proper oversight. What Trump might have been referring to is that during Obama's presidency, several associates of Trump, including his campaign chairman Paul Manafort and national security adviser Michael Flynn, faced criminal charges or trials related to their actions during the 2016 campaign. And in fact, President Obama reportedly expressed concerns about russian interference in the 2016 election, wanted bipartisan cooperation to address it, Obama reportedly approached Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, hey, let's put out a joint statement, statement, let's condemn russian interference. But he was rebuffed. And as McConnell refused to cooperate, he cited political concerns and that joint effort was stalled. There's also the IR's targeting controversy, where allegations surfaced that the IR's targeted conservative political groups to review their tax exempt status, subjecting them to more scrutiny and delays under Obama and maybe at his direction. It is true that the IR's applied additional scrutiny to certain groups that wanted tax exempt status, including those with terms like Tea party or patriot. In the names. Investigations found no evidence of political bias or directives from the Obama administration to target conservative groups.

Similar scrutiny was applied to liberal leaning groups as well, indicating this was related to broader IR's practices and not political bias. So who's the biggest criminal, if anyone? Those are the allegations and everything we know so far. It's up to you to be the judge did what Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and Joe Biden, what they were accused of or are accused of. Does it rise to the level of what Trump is facing and is there any evidence for it? Let me know what you think.

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On the heels of President Joe Biden securing another endorsement from a trade union, which we looked at and discussed earlier, Donald Trump held a bizarre and bonkers 06:00 a.m. sort of rally in Manhattan this morning before going into court. It's all bizarre. It's all extraordinarily strange. And Donald Trump complaining once again that he is not being allowed to go to the Supreme Court today for hearings about presidential immunity, the results of which we hope to know very soon. Here is Donald Trump saying, we need immunity. If you don't have immunity, you don't really have presidents, which is a really weird thing to say. I apologize for the audio. It was loud. There were horns and cars, and it was all crazy. But let's see if we can pick out what Trump says here.

The judge isn't allowing me to go. We have a big case today in the Supreme Court on presidential immunity. A president has to have immunity. If you don't have immunity, you just have a ceremonial president, you won't have a. Do you know about the payments?

Speaker B
So we have a big.

David Pakman
All right.

USA chants apropos of nothing, starting. Starting to drown out the. The audio. You know, this idea that if you don't have full and total presidential immunity, the presidency is merely ceremonial. You can't really do what you need to do as president unless you have full immunity. It doesn't seem to have been an issue for any president other than Trump and Nixon. And of course, with Nixon, we know about the criminality that he was engaged in with Trump at this point, it's alleged criminality.

And to be fair with Nixon, you could also say it was alleged in the sense that he, he did resign, ultimately before it was adjudicated.

But all of these other presidents, somehow, somehow they figured out a way, and I apologize for such a crass term, to discharge their presidential duty without coming up against the limits of presidential immunity. Somehow they were able to do it. Donald Trump also making the completely outrageous claim. This is when it's sort of like you show that you're part of the cult by not questioning even the most obviously untrue statements. Here's Trump saying he has a good shot at winning New York in November.

They all want us to run, and we're going to run very hard in.

Joe Biden
New York, New York.

David Pakman
We have a good chance of winning New York. In my opinion. We're going to give it a shot. Trump says we have a good chance of winning New York. The reality is Trump has no chance of winning New York state. Why is brazen and obvious lying of this sort accepted? And I am sure that you can find some Trump supporters who would say that's just aspirational. He doesn't really have a shot at winning New York. But you would just as easily be able to find Trump supporters at the rallies, certainly maybe at this event as well, who would say, no, Trump's right. Trump's right. And if it's not for fraud, then Trump could definitely have a shot at New York.

Even though New York is so democratic that it's unfair to even hold a trial in New York City.

It's also a place that Trump has a good shot at winning. Wild and ridiculous stuff. And just wait till you see the brown nosing a Fox News Trump brown noser Maria Bartiromo with such brazen adulation for Trump. 06:00 a.m. rally this morning. This would make those north korean news anchors blush. This would make soviet style propagandists say, oh, no, Maria is going a little bit too far. Here is Maria Bartiromo, stunned and impressed to the nth degree by Donald Trump having the energy to do a 06:00 a.m. rally this morning. Listen to this.

Maria Bartiromo
Choosing 630 in the morning to do a press conference before he actually has to be in court to speak with people outside in New York City. It's here. He's downtown right now and he's talking with construction workers. But the point is, is President Trump has to be in a courtroom while President Biden is campaigning.

Trump has this gag order in place. Lee, isn't it interesting that this is going to be the split screen until the election? Trump in a courtroom, Biden going and campaigning and attacking Trump.

David Pakman
Right? And the reason that Biden gets the campaign instead of sitting in court like Trump is because Biden doesn't appear to have committed any crimes that would land him in court in a criminal trial. The reason Trump has a gag order on him and Biden doesn't isn't because of some kind of partisanship in the justice system. It's because Trump regularly is attacking judges, court staff, witnesses and jurors and trials, whereas Joe Biden is not. That's why things are different for Trump than for Biden right now.

Maria Bartiromo
Right through this, by the way.

Lee Carter
They really do. I think so many people think that this is politically motivated. They look at Donald Trump and they see what he's saying in these moments. He's making every opportunity that he can count.

And I think it's absolutely, I think, staggering to people who support Biden. They can't understand. How does Trump keep gaining momentum when all this is happening?

David Pakman
Well, the reality is Trump is not gaining momentum. Trump is noticeably losing momentum. Trump is consistently losing momentum. The number of people who have shifted away from Trump among independent voters is six or 7% of independents. The polling, which was almost all favoring Trump two months ago, is now leaning significantly towards Joe Biden. There's polls that have Biden leading by nine. Nothing is over, nothing is guaranteed. But when this Lee Carter, I guess her name is from Muslimski and partners, when she says, people don't understand how is Trump gaining all of this momentum, given what's going on? He's not gaining any momentum. Okay, so the adulation continues here.

Lee Carter
Talk about him in such a way that they just don't get it. But when you talk about to working class Americans, 85% of them think that Donald Trump cares about people like them. And it's moments like this where he goes out and is talking to workers at 630 in the morning that make them believe that.

Joe Biden
Robert.

Maria Bartiromo
Congressman, what is your assessment here? This is President Trump outside. He's actually outside the JP Morgan building in New York. That's in midtown Manhattan. Before he's got to go the courtroom downtown, congressman.

David Pakman
All right. Anyway, I don't even need to hear from the congressman. The point here is Maria Bartiromo and Lee Carter. They are just so impressed and titillated and taken aback by the energy of Trump, who, by the way, is sleeping in court every day. There's something a little bit strange about Trump, having nicknamed his opponent sleepy Joe and brown nosers like Maria Bartiromo, calling Trump so high energy and energetic and incredibly robust and all of this stuff. And yet Trump is sleep. He's literally sleeping in court. It's not. He's. He's proverbially or metaphorically sleeping. He is literally asleep in court every single day. And they just tell you the energy is unbelievable. It's wild stuff. It's where we are. Jim Caviezel is a whacked out right wing actor. He recently spoke at Mar a Lago at an event for Catholics. And this is exhibit a in the deification and cultification of Donald Trump and MAGA. Here's Jim Caviezel. You might remember him from such extraordinary films as the passion of the christ.

The pat. The passion of Christ.

I didn't see it.

Here he is saying Trump is a prophet and a liberator, just like Moses.

Joe Biden
Moses was a great prophet and a liberator of God's beloved people. But in the end, he did not enter the promised land, but died at its very border.

Perhaps that we could help Donald Trump, prophet and the liberator in his own right, to re enter this land of promise. He led so well for four years, then had abruptly taken from his hands by hook and or crooked.

David Pakman
There you go. By hooker, crook.

They stole it from him in 2020. And if we can just reelect Trump in November, he will be greater than Moses.

This is a cult.

This is a cult. And of course, they love to say, how could Biden possibly win? He doesn't have the boaters with the flags. He doesn't have any of the people wearing the gear. He doesn't have the people standing outside in the sun with the sandy cans and the fried dough, waiting for him to tell the same stories over and over again. He doesn't have anybody calling him a prophet and a liberator. And that's right. We just want Joe Biden to get a few more people, health care, to forgive some student loan debt, to do some good things. We don't need prophecy. We don't need liberation in the biblical sense. Not to mention Trump hasn't exactly been prophetic in his statement. So this is exactly what we talk about with regard to the cultishness and the deification that we just don't need on the left, right. I want to just live my life and not be thinking about Trump or Biden all the time. Biden's the better option. We vote for him. We let him do some stuff because he hires pretty good people, and then we move on with our lives. I don't need the hat. I don't need the shirt. I don't need the flag.

Bonus clip from this Mar a Lago event with the Catholics. Here is Michael Flynn, Donald Trump's failed former national security adviser, saying the separation of church and state is total nonsense. I think the framers of the constitution might disagree.

Joe Biden
So when we hear, and they're going to start to do this, they're going to put the labels on us christian nationalists, all this crazy stuff.

David Pakman
Yeah, because you are, and I've already.

Joe Biden
Heard in the last couple of weeks about the separation of church and state.

That's total nonsense.

Total nonsense.

Total nonsense. And you're going to hear more of this, right, that this is going, we are going to be attacked.

David Pakman
So when, when we hear, all right, these are really, really whacked out people. And it's important to understand that this isn't just personal or interpersonal, I should say. It's not about their individual personalities. It's the movement they represent. They represent a movement where they don't want separation of church and state, where they don't want checks and balances as long as it's in favor of their guy. And they see Trump as a spiritual leader, a cult leader, a d, a God of sorts, and we need to make sure he doesn't get four more years in office. We have a voicemail number that you can call. 2192 David P. Some of you expressing concern that whacked out conspiracy theorist Eric from Massachusetts was gone. He is not gone. He is very much alive. And he is back to tell me that all of those conspiracy theories I cited, they're all apparently true, according to him. Speaker one hey, David, it's Eric from Matt. Looks like it's just been proven that the vax was a bio weapon.

It has not been proven that the vaccine was a bio weapon. It's like I've been telling you. You send all your minions, followers, and dummies right off a cliff because you didn't want to listen to facts. You were too stubborn or hardheaded. I actually think you'll pay off. But, you know, I would love one person, hundreds of people have said I've been paid off to give these opinions on the show.

I would love one person to find one shred of evidence that anybody has paid me off for my opinions. Please present the evidence. Just my opinion.

And yeah, so if that's true, what other conspiracies are true? Right?

Since the vax was supposedly a bioweapon, all other conspiracies must be true. Of course, nothing in that statement is accurate. We've got a great bonus show for you today.

There is the proposal of a billionaire tax to boost Social Security, very popular in swing states. We will talk about the likely outcome of the Supreme Court immunity case for Donald Trump. And we will talk about the exodus from Florida of people fleeing the growing anti immigrant sentiment there. All of those stories and more on Today's bonus show. I hope you'll join me on the bonus show. Sign up@joinpacman.com dot look forward to seeing you then. And I'll be back tomorrow with a Friday show.

5/27/24: Rudy Giuliani and fake electors indicted, AZ House votes to repeal abortion law (CLASSIC EPISODE FROM 4/25/24)

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