312: Aaron Francis - You're FIRED!

Arvid Kahl

Welcome to the Bootstrap founder for the. Second time on this show today, Aaron Francis. Something happened in Aaron's life, and I. Really want to talk to him about it. Today's sponsor is acquire.com.

Aaron Francis

More on that later. Now, here's Aaron. Aaron, last time we talked, you were teaching people how to share their expertise while working full time, and now you just pulled the, you know, reverse card and you went full entrepreneur yourself. What happened? Yeah, the UNO reverse card was played on me.

Steve

I didn't play it. Yeah. So the last time we talked, I was working as a developer educator at Planetscale and launching screencasting.com and having a million kids. And most of those things are still the same, except I'm no longer working as a developer educator at Planetscale. So less than a month ago, so, like, maybe three or four weeks ago, I was coming off of paternity leave and went to an all hands at the company, and there was a big old layoff, and I was part of it.

So from their public blog posts, they laid off most of the sales and marketing crew, of which I was one. And so that was a big surprise. And so we'll get into everything that has happened since then, but that was kind of the genesis of the current storyline. Wow. Were you prepared for this?

Arvid Kahl

And I mean this in every single possible way. Right. Like, mentally, probably not a nice feeling. But were you set up for that potential moment? Um, mentally, I never saw it coming.

Okay. Totally blindsided. Um, financially, we're. We were prepared in terms of, like, being conservative. We're.

Steve

We've been very conservative for a long time. And so it's like, thank goodness. So, you know, financially, we're fine. Mentally and emotionally, I was kind of shocked. I had been, like, emotionally gearing up to return to work because I was literally, like, two days away from coming off of paternity leave.

And so I was emotionally gearing up for that, and then it was kind of a hard left turn of, well, you're not doing that anymore. So that was. That was probably the biggest surprise part. Yeah, I remember around this time, before that happened, you were just like, I think you rented a space to build a studio in, and you were sharing stories about that. How did you deal with that kind of stuff?

Arvid Kahl

Because you already were involved in projects for planetscale when they just kind of cut it all off. Right. Yeah. That was another thing that added to the surprise was, I'm in this beautiful studio. Look at my almost complete background.

Steve

There's still some work to do, but, yeah, I, you know, I rented a one bedroom apartment to function as a YouTube studio for Planetscale, which, you know, I thought honestly was like, this is the greatest idea I've ever had, and I still think that. But, you know, circumstances have changed a little bit. So, yeah, even on paternity, I was spending a lot of time up here doing, like, manual labor, like, building out this, you know, this studio and doing a lot of work up here. And so that stung a little bit to be like, oh, shoot, I just, dang it. I just invested all this time and money and energy, and now it's all for naught.

But turns out it's not all for naught because I'm going to continue to use it. So, yeah, I'm happy that I built this out. I'm happy that I put that much energy and that much effort into it, because now it's a beautiful space for me and not for planet scale, which is okay. Yeah, it kind of feels almost like manifest destiny at this point. Like everything was leading to it, and then somebody just cut off the umbilical cord and set you free.

Arvid Kahl

That's kind of how it feels. And I love this because I could actually see your whole journey unfolding as it happened. And that's something that you do spectacularly well. Like, the whole, it's not just building in public, which is the theme of all this, obviously, but it's. It's just sharing the ups and the lows, the highs, the downs, the ups, all of them at the same time, giving people who are watching what you're doing a glimpse into a lived reality.

And in that moment, I was like, oh, man, that sucks for him, but cool the way he deals with it right now. That was my initial reaction. I bet, like, hundreds, if not thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands of people saw this. You got a lot of attention for just talking very bluntly about being let go and then immediately kind of judoing it back into something positive. That was really cool.

But was it kind of a. A reaction that you had immediately, almost as an instinctive thing to share this with the world, or was there an intentionality in communicating this? Yeah, I think it was. I think it was both. Like, I, when I found out I was getting laid off, instinctively, I thought, okay, I need to put this out there, because I've never, I've never publicly advertised to the market that I am available for hire.

Steve

And so I thought, my greatest asset is Twitter. Like, and I. People may laugh, but, like, everything that I have professionally, one way or another, I can trace back to Twitter and friends I've made on Twitter, like, being here today included. And so I thought, oh, obviously I have to tweet about it. That just makes perfect sense.

But then I thought, like, what am I going to say? And that was the part where I felt a little bit more, like, thoughtful and intentional. And the thing I said, like, yeah, I said, I just got laid off. I'm looking for what's next. But I also said, honestly, I'm a little bit embarrassed because that's how I felt.

And I think to put up a front of bravado and be like, I don't need anyone, I don't care, this is fine. Everything's okay. Would have been a lie. So that's, like, kind of off brand anyway. I don't.

I don't like putting up a false front, but it's also, I think, very common for people that get laid off to feel like this is my fault. Like, I'm. I'm embarrassed that I just got, you know, it's not fired, but, like, I just kind of got fired. Like, you know, a bunch of other people got fired at the same time, which makes it feel better, but there's still a part of me that's like, shoot, I can't believe that, like, I have to publicly say that I no longer have a job. And I think it's best for me and best for, like, the community, whatever that means, on Twitter to just kind of say it like it is instead of putting up this false confidence.

And so that was the part that I was really intentional about, was, what am I going to say? And I went with the honest truth, which I think is always the right answer. Yeah. Did that help you feel better about. It, saying that or tweeting in general?

Arvid Kahl

I guess, yeah. Thank you for asking for clarification. I guess just even allowing yourself to very openly talk about this and then tweeting about it, obviously. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve

It absolutely made me feel better. I mean, separating completely the response to the tweet, which made me feel a lot better. Like, actually just saying it made me feel better because there's some, like, there's some amount of emotional, like, turmoil to put on a brave face. Right. And that is sometimes appropriate.

I think a lot of times in parenting that is appropriate. Like, you need to be the strong, brave dad for your kids and not let them, like, see certain things sometimes. But here it's like, I don't. Why would I pretend? Like, I don't need to pretend?

And that is an emotional, like, relief. To say, hey, y'all got laid off. Kind of embarrassed. Would love to figure out what's next. And that way I.

That way, like, when I come on any podcast or when I tweet again in the future, I don't have to remember, all right, what am I trying to, like? What's my angle here? What's my position? Like, yeah, what's the brand I'm trying to put forward? It's just like, ah, here's the real.

Here's the reality. Yeah. I think that's also the reason why people reacted so, so positively, so benignly. And so kindly to what you had. To say, because that was not a.

Arvid Kahl

It wasn't like, you know, fishing for admiration or fishing for anything, really. In that moment, you just stated what it was, and you. You tried to plot your course to the next thing. And I think it was very just. Authenticity is, you know, it's a word that we all use all the time for stuff on online right now, but it was a.

A fragment of authenticity that was very raw and vulnerable in that moment. And I think that translates extremely well into just a presence in people's lives. Mine. Right? In that moment, I was like, oh, but it was also.

Yes, now he's going for something, right? All the entrepreneurs reading it were like, finally, he's going to get out there. That's so funny. I was wondering, though, when I read this, it's like, okay, what is he going to do next? Is it finally going to be the thing that he's going to stand on his own feet and conquer the world?

Did you, what was your thought process there? Because obviously, you could have just looked for another job. That tends to be. Which I did. Yeah, exactly.

And how did that shift over time? Yeah. Yes. It's funny that you say that, because I think everyone, every friend that I have talked to was like, I was so excited when I saw that. I'm like, how dare you?

Steve

So, yeah, after I tweeted it out, I got, you know, just a huge amount of support from both friends and potential employers and was kind of just, like, flabbergasted by the amount of support. And so I thought, all right, you know, at this point, the world is my oyster. You know, I just got laid off. But it's like, what a great opportunity now. So things turned around emotionally pretty quickly, and so I thought, okay, everything is out there.

I think it would be the wisest thing to do, to talk to a bunch of companies, to talk to a bunch of people and see what is on the table. For context, which, you know, but not everyone does. I have four kids under three and a wife that is the hardest working person in our family, but she doesn't get paid for it. And so it's like shooting. I really have to be, like, wise about this.

And at 35 with a family, it's not just, I'll do whatever I want to do, and I'm okay with that. That is my role. That's my responsibility. That's something that I bear, and that's totally fine. I'm not mad about that at all.

So I thought, all right, let's talk to everybody. Let's just talk to everybody, see what's out there. And I did. And I talked to a ton of just, like, incredibly nice people that just knew what I was capable of already, which was the thing that was so surprising to me. And I think the thing that I reached out to you about, which was like, hey, building in public, turns out, is great for getting a job.

So, you know, I talked to all these people, and some of the companies that I talked to, you know, I would talk to the CEO's, and they were like, hey, man, I'd love to have you come work here. You've got it, though. If you want to go out on your own, you've got it. And I would be your first client. And I was like, this is different.

This has never happened to me before. And so throughout the course of that week, I talked to dozens of companies and many tens of other people that were just wanting to help. And it just became clear to me that I had done the thing I set out to do at planet scale, and I was looking for the next challenge, and the next challenge looked more like going out on my own with a friend, but going out on my own. Then it looked like becoming an employee somewhere else again. Wow.

Arvid Kahl

That is awesome. I love that people gave you that kind of encouragement. That is so cool. But it's also, I think it's hard not to. And that's kind of what I tried to say earlier.

Finally, he's taking that step. You needed the external event to take that step, but everybody saw your potential because you so graciously shared everything you knew and everything you did in front of people. And I think if you see somebody's potential being, I wouldn't say unrealized. Obviously, your job at Planetscale and your side projects and all the things you did were amazing. And just being able to look at what you were doing was super exciting for people, like, from the media field, from the tech field from even just people in marketing audiences, everybody was really excited to see what you were doing, but to see you working through this next step, this next little barrier challenge that was in your way, that was like, now I have to help him.

I kind of have to. I felt, and this is also why I said yes within 2 seconds of you asking me to chat again, how could I not? Like, I feel I now owe you to help you because you so pleasantly and kindly and ambitiously shared the things you were doing. Right. There is a kind of reciprocity here that just by you sharing stuff, by you talking about your journey makes me buy into it.

I invest in it emotionally, and then at some point I feel like you've given me so much, I now have to give you back. I call this the eventual reciprocity. You kind of forced me to help you by just being so nice all the time. Right? I think that's one of the massive benefits of building in public that you so amazingly implemented on your own journey.

And my question is, were you aware of that? Did your, the last couple of years, did they happen, you knowing that that was going to happen in the future, like, that people would just have to help? No, I really didn't. And I appreciate, you know, I appreciate you saying that. And I'm happy, I'm happy to hear that you feel that way.

Steve

That, like, is an encouragement to me. And I think, I think I have learned throughout this process that I think people, people really want me to win. And I knew that people enjoyed following me. They enjoyed seeing some of the content. Hopefully they think I'm funny because I think I'm funny.

But I didn't realize, I don't think until this event happened. Like, people just are really on my team. And that was just, that was very, I was very honored by that, that so many people were, like, interested in the story, of course, but more so were, like, genuinely trying to help me win. And that felt like, that felt really, really empowering. And I think that is the result of, yes, I think it's the result of sharing publicly all along, but I think going back to the initial layoff tweet, I think it's the result of not ever sharing something with a bravado or an arrogance or it's just like, hey, I'm just going to keep telling you what I'm doing and what I'm feeling when I get diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis.

I'm going to tell you how depressed I am when I sell a bunch of screencasting courses. I'm going to tell you how happy I am. And there's no, like, I don't. I think sometimes people are like, oh, man, it's so exhausting to put stuff out on Twitter and to, like, think about what I'm going to have to say every day. And I can, like, intellectually assent to that, but I have never felt that in my bones, because anytime that I put something out on Twitter, it's because it was like, oh, that just popped into my head.

I should. That's like, I'm gonna say that like that. Maybe I'll spend a few minutes wordsmithing it. But I don't sit down every day thinking, like, what is my content today? I try to drive content based on things I'm actually doing or feeling or seeing or believing.

And I think that has. I think that has made people view me as a human instead of, like, some Twitter account. And people wanted to see me win, and that was a surprise to me, and I was very encouraged by that. I think you naturally picked up on something that takes a lot of people a long time to understand, like, the fact that you don't have to be a Persona to be a person, that those things are usually exclusive. And my own journey, I started as a person.

Arvid Kahl

I just tweeted about whatever, didn't really amount to much back in the day because nobody was following me. It was all random, all over the place. Then I turned into a Persona because I thought now I needed to write tweets, like, the best tweet tweeters out there. Is that a word? You know, like.

And then I noticed that that only attracted other non people, you know, both. Both the bots and people who were not really interested in being a person. So I flipped it back to person, but with more intentionality. And it looks like you figured this out from the start. I'm surprised, because that is rare.

It's cool, but it is super rare. You never had a moment where you thought, like, you needed to write threads like everybody else or schedule your tweets like everybody else? Is that actually the case? Yeah, that's actually the case. No, I never.

Steve

I never felt, especially when the thread craze came around, I. I saw that as it was, like, anathema to me. Like, I did not want to become that, because I saw, you know, I saw at the very, very top, the thread bros that were, like, you know, nine chrome extensions that are going to change your life. And I'm like, this is transparent. That is.

I think that was the thing. It was like, you are transparently seeking status. And I think status seeking in itself is low status. Like, seeking high status is low status. And I thought that feels like I would then be trying to fit into somebody else's, in this case, the algorithms mold.

And I don't think that that would serve me well, and I don't want to do it. And so I think one thing that has been interesting on this journey is that, like, you know, if we just look at Twitter followers as a directionally correct metric, like, it's not, that's not the end of the world. It's not even that important, but it is indicative of something, some underlying truth or principle. I have grown my Twitter following a lot slower than a lot of people. You know, I've never gained, you know, 5000 followers in a day from a great thread.

But I think, and I'm just kind of going on vibes here, I think the people that follow me, the community, the audience, whatever you want to call it, is a lot more compact and a lot more dense and a lot more valuable. It's human beings that want to follow me for me and not for. Because I put out a funny meme every day. That was another craze that came and went, was like, meme driven Twitter. And what happens is you end up getting a ton of followers that just care about you putting out memes.

And it's like, no, I want to have some sort of relationship, some sort of community here and not just a bunch of people that follow me because I'm following the current trend. Yeah. I think in any social media situation or just generally any relationship, be it virtual or personal, like, you kind of, you get what you put in, right? You get a deep, meaningful connection if you allow for deep, meaningful conversations or if you get connections with real, full human beings, if you present yourself as a real, full human being. And obviously that does not translate into any kind of formulaic, kind of scripted structure.

Arvid Kahl

Like, that's not what people are. People are complicated, right? In the best and the worst sense of the word. So you have to equally be complicated but accessible. And to juggle that is kind of hard.

It's hard to know what is banal and what is interesting in the ups and downs. How do you figure this out for yourself? Because when I like the rheumatoid arthritis thing, right. That is a deep cut to experience, but it's not the only kind of deep cut you experience in your life. So what moved you to share that in particular?

Steve

Yeah, that in particular was really like, it was occupying the majority of my brain. So we had this new set of twins in November or so, and then I started physically being almost unable to move. And so that was just occupying a huge amount of my brain. And that was my reality. And when I decided to tweet that, I thought, I need some help, like, I need some ideas.

And so I just, you know, I didn't pretty it up at all. And I just said, like, this is, this has been terrible and I'm really struggling right now. And does anyone else have any ideas of what to do? And that proved really valuable. I mean, you know, half the people said be vegan, and half the people said eat meat only.

And it's like, oh, shoot, now what? But it proved, it proved really valuable because people reached out either publicly or in the DM's were like, hey, I have that, or I have something similar. Do you want to talk? And I'm like, yeah, I do want to talk because I'm super depressed about this and I need to know that somebody else has made it to the other side. And so that was like, that was me.

Like, yes, being authentic and transparent, but also, like, crying for help. And people responded and were like, I can help. Do you want to talk? And so I had a few phone calls with people that had experienced something similar and gave me a lot of hope about, like, this is doable. And so, yeah, figuring out what is interesting and what is banal and what is too, like, too transparent.

That's kind of a tightrope. But I tend to lean more towards, like, let's, my default is more, let's share what's going on and, like, let's keep the narrative going, the storyline going. Like, if I were a Hollywood writer, what would I write that Aaron does next? Like, yeah. And that's kind of how I think about it.

And I think you do get a sense after a while of like, ah, people don't want to hear me tweet about the airline losing my bag. Like, that is transparent, but it's like, complainy and nobody cares. So you do kind of get a feel for, like, what the world is, like, consuming out there. That's a great example, though. Like, the airline using your back.

Arvid Kahl

You have no agency over this. Like, you can go to the little terminal that is, for some reason, on the complete, completely other side of the airport, and then you get to sign a thing and hope that you will, at some point, see your bag, never. See your bag again. Yeah, right. There is barely any agency there.

But for being diagnosed with an illness or struggling from like a layoff or something like this. There is a lot of action. You could take, a lot of experiments you can run a lot of things you can change a lot of things you can improve. And I think the magic here, particularly both with you being laid off and the arthritis thing, is that not only did you learn something about what you could do and how to even approach this, or the people that commented on it, and they learned something or they got to share something, but there's a third group of people, and that's everybody who's watching, everybody who's lurking on Twitter. Like the hundreds of thousands of people who have seen this conversation either just pop up in their feed and they scrolled slightly past it, but they registered it or they actively read it.

They were one of the many views that you got, but never commented, never replied, but it changed something in them. They will always associate that change, hopefully for the better with you. That's the magic of doing this in public, because you might have just as well talked to a couple of experts on Twitter, dm them and get some information, and then they introduce you to somebody else. You dm them, you get some information and everything happens behind closed doors. But you doing this in a public Twitter thread, which is on a tweet, which is linkable, that people share, probably you've made it into a lot of arthritis, self help groups somewhere with that.

Steve

Yeah, it's bizarre. There's probably a lot of group chats going on where my tweet is linked there. And that is. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that until you just said it. Yeah.

Arvid Kahl

And you never know. That's the thing with this. You never know what opportunity you give yourself to share your thoughts and your experiences with other people until you share them and then stuff comes happening. I very much agree with you. Twitter has been now I will never call it x until the day I die.

Twitter has been the source of opportunity for me for now over twelve years. I found my first job on Twitter in 2012. I don't know, it was around for a couple of years at that point. And ever since then, this platform has been supplying me with opportunity because I was present on it. I think you've been doing a great job with that.

Steve

Yeah. People, people. I had a tweet go viral the other day because I got my healthcare renewal and it was like $3,700 a month. And I just, that was another one where I just got it and was like, here's a funny tweet about, you know, subscription prices. And, like, I thought it was funny, and it was funny, but then a lot of.

A lot of people commented, like, you know, it got outside of our circle of friends, so it gets wild out there. But I put that, like, the things I was subscribed to and, you know, it's Netflix, Twitter, Spotify, healthcare, and then. Use the VPN, right? Disney plus. Yes.

People were like, use a VPN and you can get $5 off Netflix. I'm like, I think you might be missing the joke here, but a lot of people were like, you know, quote, tweeted it and said, who pays for Twitter? Or, like, why would anyone ever pay for Twitter? And I think people, like, people view Twitter as, like, an opportunity to make many, many single dollars if your tweet goes viral. And I'm like, listen, if Twitter never paid me a dollar, I would still.

It's still the most valuable thing. Like, the most valuable asset to me is. Is Twitter. And I don't think people fully understand, because when I say it's like, I get way more value out of Twitter than I put in or than it costs me, people are like, well, how much do they pay you? I'm like, no, you're missing it.

Like, the number of friends, the number of connections, the number of even, like, good information that I see just scrolling on Twitter. All of those things are way, way, way more valuable than any other social network or any other asset that I have. And I think people tend to view it a little myopically, as, okay, well, you're paying $16. How much ad revenue did they give you? Like, I have no idea.

It doesn't matter. That's so simplistic, right? It's such a reductionist approach to opportunity and money. Like, money. Money is a long form or long term consequence of opportunity.

Arvid Kahl

That's how I see it. Right. I don't need to immediately get the money back that I spent on something. Obviously. It might be just a waste of money, sure.

But it might also come back at me, like, a thousand fold in a couple of years from one opportunity. And it's funny, you're probably at a point where Twitter pays you some sort of ad revenue now. Like, probably, like $5 a month or something like that. Yeah, it's more than $16. And so I'm like, hey, I'm coming out ahead.

Steve

This is awesome. Yeah, I could have up to one Chipotle burrito with this money. Yeah. But it means so little. Like, my own experience with this is, like, YouTube.

Arvid Kahl

Same deal, right? Like, on YouTube, I make a cool $2 or something per video over the lifetime of a video. But I have a sponsor that pays me thousands of dollars a month just to be present in the video. It's not the immediate platform money you make, it's the kind of opportunities you put on top of it. And maybe let's talk about the opportunities that you have right now, because I think at this point, if people are not excited to know what you're building, they really should be.

So where are you going from this? Like, you had a really interesting job doing media work for a company that said we don't need media for some reason. Exactly. Yep. Weird.

But let's ignore this for a second. Where are you going from here? Yeah, so from here, I did all those interviews, I took all those calls, and then I thought, let's do, let's try something. Let's try something different. And so from there, it became very obvious that, like, lots and lots of companies need video help.

Steve

And so there are so many, you know, primarily I was talking to developer tool companies, infrastructure SaaS, that sort of stuff, and every one of them was like, hey, we need a lot of help with our video. Can you do it? Like, maybe, like, I don't know. And so all of these companies, there's just this huge demand and this huge felt need for high quality video because I think the world of marketing is changing a little bit and it's getting a little bit harder to stand out. And I think high quality video is still pretty wide open, and I think companies are starting to recognize that.

And so, you know, I talked with, there's a guy at planet scale that I worked with named Steve. He used to be called Steve the editor because it's hysterical. But he's, you know, he's a lot more than an editor, so he's producer Steve now. So me and producer Steve talked, and we're like, let's do this thing on our own. And so, you know, we kind of, we kind of, you know, batted around some ideas.

And then he was like, I'm getting on a plane. He's in Boise. He said, I'm getting on a plane. We're gonna, I'm gonna fly to Dallas and we're gonna record a launch video. I was like, yes, let's do it.

And so again, like, trying to think of the story as a narrative or like the story as a movie, thinking what should happen next? And that is kind of an insane thing to think about, like when it's your own life and you're thinking, what would a screenwriter do here? What would happen next is the triumphant return. Right? You get laid off, you're down a little bit of hero's journey.

You come back and you conquer the world. And so it was like this. It's pretty great. This is the most entertaining outcome. Let's do it.

And so, you know, Steve came down, we filmed this video, and we launched it. And it was, it was a quick turnaround because we knew, like, the moment is passing, the, the conversation is moving on, and we need to be here, like, right now to capture it. And so Steve and I have started a video production studio called Try Hard Studios. And what we do, what we're offering is a couple of different things, but primarily to dev tooling companies. If you have an internal team that makes video, Steve and I will basically help make their video more effective.

Whether that's technically better or from a marketing standpoint, how do you package this so that people will click on it? Then there's another arm that we're going to do, which is just fully outsourced content production. And so you come to us and you say, hey, I've got this written content or this idea for content. We need you to turn it into video. Like, great, we can do that.

I'll do the on camera work and we can do that. And that's going to be like the contact us for pricing because I can't do that for every company because that starts to feel weird. And so there's going to be just way fewer opportunities there. So that's our offering to the market. And then we have an internal idea of, um, in house courses.

So screencasting.com comes under the tryhard brand, and we'll start to kind of build that up a little bit. So those are the offerings to the marketplace. That's so cool. You know what, what is also very noticeable in all this is, uh, you talked about the idea of the screenwriter continuing the narrative, but if you, if you trace it back, like, all the things that you did in the past kind of converge on this moment. Right?

Arvid Kahl

It's like the screencasting course. Like it's a media property that so clearly is needed for all these people that want to produce content that is screencasting related. And you work at Planetscale meeting Steve, like all of this, it's kind of the path dependency, just clearly showing where this is going. And the fact that I could witness this and kind of see it before you told me that makes it so much stronger too, as kind of a fate, like a destiny of a kind I really, really think this is super cool. Interesting also that you pick the niche that you're most comfortable in, which I guess is developer tooling and media production.

The intersection there. Are you planning to stick with this? I think that's a pretty sizable market. Or do you want to make this, turn this into a studio that goes beyond. What's the long term plan here?

Steve

Yeah, I think the near term plan is stick with devtools, startups, that sort of thing. In the long term, I would be thrilled to work with other types of companies. I think one thing that would make that difficult is with devtools and sass, there's a lot of screen work. So there's a lot of like, let me teach you how to do something. You know, primarily sitting here in the studio looking at a screen, sharing the screen, that sort of thing.

If we start to get into, I don't know, physical goods or something like that, there's a lot of, like, out and about in the world work, and that's going to rely pretty heavily on Steve to like, produce and, you know, direct those sorts of videos. And he's physically distant, so that may be a limiting factor in the future. But we'll start by trying to mine this vein of dev tooling companies as deep as it'll go. No, that can be an intentional choice too, right. Kind of your remote studio.

Arvid Kahl

So a lot of your work will be screen related. I was wondering, you're data four, right? That means being away from the kids. That's going to kind of suck. I mean, we do this for work all the time, but if you can make a change for your own destiny, you might as well pick the one that is most compatible with the needs that you have.

Right? Exactly. Which is. Which is another reason why I didn't think even for a second about doing a SaaS because it's like with video, I can do the thing and deliver it and go home. With sass one, it takes forever, as you know, it takes forever to get it going.

Steve

Although it sounds like pod scans going pretty quickly, but it takes forever to get it going. And then you go home and people still are using it and have problems and you're like, well, I'm trying to put the kids to bed and I don't want that in my life right now. And so, yeah, I think the world has conspired to put me here and also it makes the most sense for my stage of life right now. And so it does seem like the easy and obvious answer. Do you think this is kind of a, maybe a tangent here, but would you have started on this journey now if you hadn't built an audience, a presence, a social platform over the last couple of years, would that even have occurred?

Absolutely not. Not. Wouldn't have even crossed my mind. And, you know the funny thing? You said something about looking back, it like, seems, it seems like everything has led me here.

I only got here because I tried a bunch of stuff, and I only, I only got here because a bunch of the stuff I tried didn't work. And so I think, you know, I think there's a notion that, like, you can sit around and think up your best idea, and that might be true for people with brains more powerful than my own, but when I sit around and think up ideas, they're usually bad. But when ideas make themselves known to me as I am on the journey, those ideas tend to be a lot better. And so even screencasting came from me working really, really hard at Planetscale and on my own videos and people saying, like, hey, how do you like, I'd love to see behind the scenes of how you do this. And that was the first.

That was the first, like, oh, I, you know, I discovered this along the way. I will pick up this coin while I travel on this journey. And then it just kind of, like, that just kind of kept happening. And I think what people forget is all of the false paths that I went down and then backed up and then kept going and then backed up and kept going. And people just see this nice, neat package of, oh, this and this and this and this.

And I'm like, yeah, but I've been, I've been failing a whole lot. And so it does, it does feel, even to me, linear, looking back. But it's very clear that everything I have right now is because of motion and progress in any direction. And then you kind of narrow it down as you go. I love that.

Arvid Kahl

It's just a paradigm to approach making personal progress, just growing yourself, seeing every single thing you do, or particularly when it fails, not as a failure. I hate the fact that we use the term failure for projects that didn't work out. It's like, no scientist would call an experiment a failure. It's just an experiment that disproves theory or disproves some kind of idea that you had that you wanted to check and, okay, no. So apparently not.

But that is a learning all in itself. And I think there's a lot of conversation around, well, you need a success to actually succeed. You can't just fail all the time and learn there needs to be some kind of forward momentum. But that happened along the way. And I think particularly in your, with all the projects that you failed.

I really don't like the phrase that you, that you tried, that you experimented with in the past that didn't go where you wanted them to go. They all happened in public, too, and every single one of them. And I followed your journey for a while. I remember several of them, and every single one of them made you more awesome for me. Like, no matter where it went, right?

Like, even if it didn't work out, it was like, hey, at least you tried, right? At least. And here's what I learned from that, okay? That didn't work out. Okay?

Now I get to know what I shouldn't do. Now, I learned from your experiment what my own experiments might look like, how I can deal with that. That is so valuable. And I'm really grateful that you did this in public, in front of people, even having podcasts and talk about it, talking about these kind of things, that is super, super valuable. I wish that there was way more of this in the world because apparently looking at you now really worked out, huh?

Steve

It really, it really does work out. And I've been banging that drum for so long that, like, putting yourself out there doing work publicly and publishing it will bring you good things. And I can't promise or even guess what they might be. I used to write a bunch of articles about MySQl and performance, database performance. And then I got a DM that was like, do you want to work at Planetscale?

It's like, yeah, that's freaking awesome. But how do you, how do you force someone to dm you to offer you a job? I have no idea. Like, that was. That was an uncontrollable outcome of doing something that I know to be good.

And this is kind of the same way. I couldn't have, like, two years ago if I was like, all right, what's the most optimal way to end up with a video production studio at the end? There's no chance I would have guessed this route. And this isn't, it wasn't the most optimal way, but it's a good way. Like, it was a great way.

And now I'm here and I feel awesome about it. And I think, like, I have a name. Like a made up theory that I get. I named this and I call it the Galaxy Quadrant theory because it's just so awesome. I love outer space.

Arvid Kahl

Tell me more. Basically. Yeah, basically, it's like, I don't know exactly where I'm headed. I'll be honest. I don't know exactly where I'm headed, but I have picked a point far out.

Steve

I've picked a quadrant of the galaxy, and I'm heading that direction. And so, like, I'm trying to point all of my vectors that direction. So screencasting, YouTube video studio, it's all kind of like, hey, these are all going the same way. And along the way, I may realize, like, my aim is a little bit off. Let's do a, let's do a little bit of an adjustment.

Like, I'm still headed this general direction, but along the way, I've learned actually don't want to go to that star. Let's go to this star instead. And I think that is, that has served me so well. Getting in motion and then kind of like, eh, let's go this way. That was wrong.

Let's go this way. But still, like, moving somewhere is just so valuable. This is so antithetical to the idea of a career, right, of having, like, knowing exactly where that vector ends, that you're going on. And I think it's important to understand that you didn't want to build a video studio two years ago, right? You just figured out, okay, this is actually something I could do, right.

Arvid Kahl

I think that's important because, like, you, you taking the opportunity because it just put itself into your path. That's the magic here. Not like setting up everything so that eventually people will tell you, no, don't work for me. Actually, let me be a client of yours like that. You cannot force that.

Just like you said, can force the DM, but you can see opportunities along the way. I think it's opportunity surface as a concept, right. What you describe as a quadrant, I think, is a two dimensional thing where you just locate some kind of area and you kind of move towards it. And the more space you allow yourself around you for opportunities to strike, well, the more easily you will move more toward that direction or in that direction. I love that idea, man.

As a Star Trek fan, when I think about quadrants, I go back in 2030 years of Star Trek history, and I think, which quadrant would I like to be?

That is really cool. I like that. I think the galaxy quadrant theory is something you should maybe write about more, because I have a feeling people would benefit from just general approach here because. It'S such a cool name. It's a cool name.

Steve

I got to claim that in the public mind, you could be in your. Own spaceship, traveling somewhere, exploring the path. That's also a Star Trek thing. Let me quickly move. Yeah, tell me I touched the Star Trek nerve here.

Arvid Kahl

Let's go. I want to hear. Yeah, that's your fault, buddy. But Star Trek is a story about exploration, like people on those spaceships, as much as it's a weird military fiction history thing. But, you know, they still want to explore the galaxy.

Their main purpose in this post scarcity world, where we have infinite money and infinite power, is what's out there. What can we learn? That has been the initial and still is the message of Star Trek, which is why I love this as an idea, because you are on your own little spaceship, traveling around in some area that you like, because it's kind of cool. There's this cool horsehead nebula somewhere, and you want to figure out what's going on there, and you move ever closer and become ever more successful in understanding what's happening in that field. That makes you an expert.

Steve

And as you get closer, you're adjusting because things are coming in like, things are becoming more clear as you get closer. And I think that's the important part, is you just head a direction, and things will come into focus as you get there, and you can kind of decide. All right, now, specifically, how does this express itself? Yeah. And you learn how to even adjust your direction better along the way.

Arvid Kahl

You see opportunities more clearly because you understand what a good one, what a bad one, what a questionable one, and what an interesting one looks like. You even get more clear, you could become better at steering your little starship is kind of what it is. I'm going to have to write this before you do because I think I got confident. You like this idea? Yeah, I guess.

Steve

Yeah, I love it. All right. That. I think we can leave it with this. I think we are now on a galaxy brain level of talking about building in public.

Arvid Kahl

That will certainly be sufficient. I really appreciate you sharing this with me because I've been a big fan of yours. Your journey, everything you've been doing, you've been not only, you know, sharing your story, which is already interesting, but along the way, there are these. These massive bread grumps. Wouldn't even call them breadcrumbs anymore.

They're just loaves of bread along the way of knowledge and of insights that you share, like, both in your personal world and your professional approach about how to. How to grow as a person building a media business. I've been trying to do the same thing. Build a studio, build a podcast, build a brand. You've been doing this.

You're literally sitting in what is probably a half a decade's worth of just learning how to video, right? Or more than that, even, because you've been doing this for probably longer than just a couple years. You are showing in public very clearly. You're showing proof of your work. You're showing your work, and that is the best thing you can do.

And I really appreciate that you're doing it. So thank you so much for that. And obviously, at this point, all I can ask you is, where can people follow you on this journey? Well, surprising no one. Twitter.com is the best place to find me.

Steve

I'm Aaron D. Francis on there. And yeah, who knows what happens next. But if you follow me on Twitter, you'll be the first to hear about it. Oh, that's awesome.

Arvid Kahl

Well, Aaron, thanks so much for being on the show. Always appreciate catching up with you. I cannot wait to see where this is going. I can't wait to see the first teasers of little projects that you make and showing your process along the way. I'm really excited for this.

Thank you so much for sharing your journey. Well, thank you so much. And thanks. Thanks for having me on. It's always a joy to be here.

Aaron Francis

And that's it for today. I will now briefly thank my sponsor, acquire.com dot. Imagine this. You're a founder who's built a really solid SaaS product. You acquired all those customers and everything is generating really consistent monthly recurring revenue.

That's the dream of every SaaS founder. Right? Problem is, you're not growing for whatever reason. Maybe it's lack of skill or lack of focus or apply in lack of interest. You don't know.

You just feel stuck in your business, with your business. What should you do? Well, the story that I would like to hear is that you buckled down, you reignited the fire, and you started working on the business, not just in the business. And all those things you did, like audience building and marketing and sales and outreach, they really helped you to go down this road, six months down the road, making all that money. You tripled your revenue and you have this hyper successful business.

That is the dream. The reality, unfortunately, is not as simple as this. And the situation that you might find yourself in is looking different for every single founder who is facing this crossroad. This problem is common, but it looks different every time. But what doesn't look different every time is the story that here just ends up being one of inaction and stagnation because the business becomes less and less valuable over time.

And then eventually completely worthless if you dont do anything. So if you find yourself here already at this point or you think your story is likely headed down a similar road, I would consider a third option and that is selling your business on acquire.com because you capitalizing on the value of your time today is a pretty smart move. It's certainly better than not doing anything and acquire.com is free to list. They've helped hundreds of founders already. Just go check it out at try dot acquire.com arvida and see for yourself if this is the right option for you your business at this time.

You might just want to wait a bit and see if it works out half a year from now or a year from now. Just check it out. It's always good to be in the know thank you for listening to the Bootstrap founder today. I really appreciate that you can find me on twitter at avedkar arvekahl and you find my books and my twitter course tattoo. If you want to support me and this show, please subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Get the podcast in your podcast player of choice, whatever that might be. Do let me know. It would be interesting to see and leave a rating and a review by going to ratethispodcast.com founder. It really makes a big difference if you show up there because then this podcast shows up in other people's feeds and that's, I think where we all. Would like it to be.

Just helping other people learn and see and understand new things. Any of this will help the show. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for listening. Have a wonderful day and bye.

312: Aaron Francis - You're FIRED!

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1. Introduction

2. The Layoff Experience

3. Reactions and Adjustments

4. Moving Forward

5. Reflections and Lessons

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