How to Deal with Frenemies at Work

Aileen Merciel
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Aileen Merciel
Hi, everyone. This is surfing corporate, the podcast that helps you navigate tricky corporate waters through research, humor, and relatable life experience from workplace survivors. I'm Aileen Merciel. And I'm Glenda Pachinens. And the two of us are former senior vice presidents who traded the juicy, delicious salary and perks of corporate jobs to become podcast celebrities.

I mean, who needs a financial stability when you have an Ambie nomination from the podcast academy? Glenda, I love that we are still riding high and the award nominated, and we will continue to do that. Speaking of the ambis, it happened a couple weeks ago, and we had such a blast attending the ceremony in LA in person. It was so much fun. I got to see Aileen in person and give her a big fat hug in person.

It's been a minute. It was wonderful. But we didn't win best indie podcast.

You know what? The only thing that actually made me sad about not winning that award was not being able to get up there and give an acceptance speech where I thanked all her years of crippling corporate trauma. You know what? Fine. We didn't win for best indie podcast.

Glenda Pachinens
But I will say that maybe we went on the red carpet just cause it was so freaking fun. We went in there and people had little signs with their names. And while we were taking pictures, they were like, Glenda, Eileen. It's like, what is happening? And I remember the one guy saying, eileen, I'm like, oh, yes.

Aileen Merciel
What? And he's like, take your arm off of Glenda. That looks creepy. No, he said, it looks like you're choking her. It looks like you're choking.

That was so great. It was such a surreal moment. It really was. Because we are so not used to being in front of that camera and being the ones photographed. We've done so many red carpets and been to so many events.

Glenda Pachinens
But it's always behind the scenes, doing the stuff, making sure that the stars are in front. So it was fun. A little awkward, I have to say. Yeah, a little. Okay.

Aileen Merciel
But in case you're curious, we did post a few pictures of that in our latest newsletter. So if you're not subscribed to our newsletter, just go to our website, surfingcorporate.com. And our newsletters are not those annoying ones that come too frequently. They are short and sweet. We share recommendations about articles, book podcasts that we're into, or movies that we think could be relevant and helpful to you in a way that's entertaining and bullshit free.

Glenda Pachinens
Absolutely. Absolutely bullshit free. And on a final note, before diving into today's topic, we wanted to share that Surfing corporate is is now ranked in the top three top 3% of all global podcasts. Okay, hold on, this deserves a special effect. Hold on.

Surfing corporate is now ranked in the top three top 3% of all global podcasts.

And I just have to add, that's despite the fact that we're not posting new episodes every week like we have in past season. So yes, this is us doing a. Little cheerleading, shameless self luck and self. Promotion, and cheering ourselves up to continue on this path of indie podcasters. So thank you to all the new listeners that we have.

Aileen Merciel
And thank you, of course, to the listeners who have been with us since day one. It really, really, really means a lot to us. And remember that the best way to support us is by rating us writing a review thing, or, you know, just sharing this podcast with a friend. That really, really helps.

Glenda Pachinens
Okay, so now let's dive into our topic for today, which is work frenemies. Now, the Merriam Webster Dictionary defines frenemy as a person who is, or pretends to be a friend, but who is also in some ways an enemy or a rival. And this slithery corporate species can be found in all workplaces, in every industry, country, them, and plan it, you name it. An articlebysuccess.com titled how to navigate your relationship with a workplace frenemy gives a more detailed description. Frenemies are, quote, full of good cheer and an inviting smile so that youll share your thoughts and confidence youre taking in with them until you discover they spilled your secrets, took credit for a project you authored, or pointed a scolding finger at you, even if it should be wagged in their direction.

Damn, I think the author of that. Article really felt had a few experiences, personal experience. So yeah, they can be very charming and extremely likable. 1 minute and then do something really shitty the next minute. I think we've all encountered this type of person before, and not just in work.

Aileen Merciel
I think, you know, going back to middle school or even before that, there's, you know, it's like the typical Regina George. Oh, my God, I love your skirt. Where did you get it? Uh, it was my mom's in the eighties. Vintage.

So adorable. Thanks. That is the ugliest effing skirt I've ever seen. Yeah. Yeah.

Glenda Pachinens
And at some point, you learn to stay away from people like that, especially in, like, the friendship space, or you. Don'T, and then you spend, like, countless dollars on therapy. But, you know, at work, you can't opt out. You can't say, oh, my God, this person is unstable. I don't want to work with them.

So today we're going to dive into this topic and provide you with some actionable strategies to help you survive workplace frenemies, right after this break.

Aileen Merciel
Okay, so while researching this episode, I found a BBC article titled why Workplace frenemies are our most stressful colleagues. And I found this fascinating because it explains why frenemies are even worse for both mental and physical health than actual enemies, actual people that you flat out know that they're out to get you.

Julian Holt Lumstad, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the Brigham Young University. Did I say that right? Brigham, yes. At the Brigham Young University, pointed out that in multiple experiments throughout the past ten years, she found that interactions with frenemies can heighten our stress responses much more than aversive relationships. And over the long term, it even provokes worse cardiovascular health.

So again, both mentally and physically, people who are, like, on both sides of the spectrum of nice and evil really fuck with your head. That is so crazy. But why is that? I think precisely it's because of the uncertainty factor, because you can't anticipate what their response is going to be. You don't know if they're going to be like, oh, this is amazing, or they're going to be just total assholes.

And the fact that you don't know what is going to happen just triggers that stress response. And again, it's so tricky because they're not the person that you know is coming at you to try and take you down, because you can prep for that, you have your defense mechanisms, and you can anticipate. It's just much more tricky. And especially these people do have kind of like an effect on you, and you care about their opinion. So when they take you down, you are much more hurt, and it takes you a minute to recover.

As opposed to, well, this is just this person who, like, I don't care about. He's an asshole or she's, you know, a horrible person. Like, this affects you a lot more. I can 1000% understand how stressful a relationship like that can be. And especially at work, you know, when you can't walk away.

Glenda Pachinens
And how you described it just now, I mean, at work, you have so much shit to deal with anyway, and you're dealing with so many workplace stressors anyway. And if you have this situation that has this ambiguity or this unspoken sort of weird vibe that just adds more stress to your day, I can totally get that. I think the best case of this was Taylor Swift and Kanye west.

How do you figure? Wait, hold on a second. How did your brain go there? I don't know, but it's just like, it's the best example of not the best. But anyway, at some point, she really thought she could trust him, and they began working together, and it's like, oh, we're good.

Aileen Merciel
And then all of a sudden, like, boom, I'm gonna take you down, bitch. So he completely went in there, gained her trust, and for her, she's like, oh, being so nice. Like, we moved past this thing. This is awesome. We can be friends.

And then, sadly, no, we couldn't because he was never her friend. He was her best friend of me. So, Glenda, bringing it down to more earthy and more close experiences to our actual listeners, unless you're friends of Taylor Swift, have you had a frenemy experience at work? You know, I think. Yeah, I think I have and several times, and I haven't.

Glenda Pachinens
I haven't really thought about it a lot recently because it's been a few years, but when I thought about this topic and I thought about my career and who I've encountered and who might have been a friend of me, of mine, one distinctive person came up very quickly. I knew it was a person that was so nice to me and so friendly with me, but at the time, I kept hearing from other people, like, oh, yeah, that girl hates you. That woman does not like you. I'm like, what do you mean she doesn't like me? Like, she's so nice and she's always trying to be helpful, and they're like, yeah, no, she doesn't like you.

And, yeah, we both reported to the same boss. We both had, you know, we were lateral colleagues. So it's not like she reported into me or I reported it to her. We worked together. We were on the same team.

But it was one of those situations that once I started hearing back from people what her. What she would say or what she would imply or little, like, in Spanish, we say pujitas. Like little darts or little arrows that she would throw up at me. Wow. Not in front of me, not like, directly.

I just started being more careful, and then I just started, you know, trying to be much more objective, you know? You know me, I lean in the workplace and I, you know, I try to be an open book and I try to be super friendly. I try to, like, connect with people. That's the way I work best. Like, if I feel like I trust you, I'm all in, and we're gonna, you know, work through whatever situation we have together.

But if there's no trust, that's it. And it's really hard for me to come back from a place of no trust with a person that I feel like hasn't really earned it. Did you ever talk to this person? Like, did you have that conversation? No, I didn't.

Lucky. I was gonna say lucky for me. She left the company. Yeah, she wasn't there for too long. She left the company, and it was one of those things that I'm like, okay, thank God I didn't have to deal with that situation any longer.

And, you know, thinking about it now, I was like, damn, I should have handled that in a better way. I should have just been upfront and I should have been like, hey, you know, let's talk. Let's have a conversation. But I didn't. But now, you know, but, yeah, I think that's the big, big one.

There was another one earlier in my career that wasn't as frontal like, she never talked shit about me, but I just had a feeling that she was undermining me in different ways. And she became my boss for a hot minute. It was like, literally for like a temporary three month assignment thing, and then she moved on. So in my case, those situations kind of resolved themselves because I no longer had to work with the person. You know, one left the company and one left to another department.

I didn't deal with her anymore, and then she kind of left the company not too long after that. Okay. But I kind of wish I had dealt with it more head on. And we're going to get into advice on how to deal with that. But what about you?

Aileen Merciel
But really quickly, before I forget, have you been somebody's friend of me? I hope not. I don't know if I have somebody. Let me know, she seems so sweet and likable. That bitch.

Glenda Pachinens
Glenda bitch. So I was thinking also about this, and, you know, I don't think I had a frenemy, per se. I think I had enemies who were very friendly. But, like, I knew that, you know, it's not like I bought that. They thought that I was amazing.

Aileen Merciel
Like, but they were very cordial, like, very nice. I remember a specific case of one of these people that created this, you know, huge event and asked me to be part of this panel in front of, like, a live audience of 250 people. And I was like, oh, you know, that is so, like, wow, maybe, you know, maybe this is this person trying to reach out and trying to make this relationship better, and I'm like, this is so great. And we get to this place the night before, like, with all the other panelists, like, very high end people, and we do a rehearsal, and the rehearsal is great. Like, these are the questions that we're gonna ask.

This is how it's gonna work, blah, blah. And I'm like. I walk out there feeling, like, really good. And then the next day, during the act presentation, the presentation started out by this person asking a question that had never been discussed, and the person turning to me and saying, what do you think about this, Eileen? But was it, like, a gotcha question?

It was a total gotcha question. I was like, nothing within the realm of what we had even discussed. And, like, everybody in the panel was like, what? And then she's like, how about you? How about you take this one, Eileen?

And I was so thrown. So then I had to really gather myself to not look like a complete idiot with the first question. And. And then after the event, this person comes up to me and said, oh, my God, you were wonderful. You did so good.

Glenda Pachinens
Well, because apparently she, like, you hit it out of the park, right? Like, you answered the question. You didn't fall into the trap. Well, I don't know if I hid it out of the park, but, you know, I did okay. But I definitely did okay, despite that being the first thing that happened that, you know, and I was like, there were a lot of very, very senior high end people here, and I was, you know, I was okay.

Aileen Merciel
But I wasn't, like, the probably best person to speak to this. And then putting that on me, just, like, it just starts out the whole thing with this weird edge. Right? But then again, the brilliance of, oh, my God. You did amazing.

You did so good. Did you ask, hey, what about that question? There was, like, a lot of people there so I'm like, oh, thank you so much. So we were both being. Playing the game, and then I was like, okay, definitely this person doesn't want me to succeed and, you know, plays it very well.

I have to say, strategically, it was pretty brilliant, but I had never dealt with people who were so nicely trying to undermine. Yeah. Trying to make me not look good. Oh, wow. So because the question she threw was specifically to make you not be able to answer it and make you look bad.

Yeah. It wasn't a question necessarily for me. It was a tough question for the panel. And when you specifically say, eileen, why don't you take this one? Why?

Glenda Pachinens
Yeah, why? That's pointing like you didn't leave it. Open for the panel. She called me on it specifically as the first question. Walking into that situation where you're already nervous, right.

Aileen Merciel
You're speaking into, like, in front of a ton of executives, lying thing. Well, yeah. So it's, like, kind of. Kind of shitty. Maybe.

Maybe it's me that interpreted it like that, but I don't know. I kind of. I kind of feel that's how it went. But again, kudos to the evil brilliance. That was really well played.

It was really well played. Okay, so, yeah, so at any. Regardless, like, we can't control who our coworkers are or our bosses, and we certainly will encounter frenemies at any given company. So it's important that we are able to detect them, understand their behaviors and motivations, so, you know, we can potentially manage them in a way that can reduce the stress that they naturally cause. So what can we do to make the situation better?

Glenda Pachinens
Exactly. And because we don't want to bring up a workplace challenge without giving you some advice that you can use, of course, we dove in and we researched, and we actually found a really great article by fast company called how to get along with your work frenemy and protect yourself. And it detailed some really practical insights. In the article, Moshe Cohen, a senior lecturer at Boston University's questroom school of Business, suggests asking yourself a few questions to help you define that relationship. First, you want to ask yourself, where do you need or help each other?

Number two, where do you get in each other's way? Number three, who does each of you report to? And what other relationships impact your interactions? Number four, what are your goals and what are the other person's goals? And number five, and this is really important for context here, what is your history with each other, and what makes you frenemies to begin with?

Now, if you ask yourself these questions and answer them objectively and honestly, you have a better chance of understanding your relationship and how it got to that frenemy stage. That way, you'll be able to have a better chance of establishing boundaries with that person in the workplace. Like, I think this is such good advice. And honestly, like, I. I didn't have those tools when I was dealing with this.

Aileen Merciel
I was like. I was just like, survival mode. Like, how do I not get shot down again? Me, too. But it's human nature, right?

So it's that if you do that, you have the time and discipline to answer these questions, you will 100% understand better what the situation is and how you can handle it. So take the time to do it, people.

In the article, organizational psychologist Richard Davis suggests using an approach he calls the personality blueprint. Davis explains that dealing with frenemies often involves emotions, which can introduce bias into our assessments. So evaluating their personality through a more scientific, data driven method lens can really help remove the subjectivity and give you a clear, more understanding of who they are. It's like not adding your story to the situation. It's being conscious that, okay, there's a ton of biases I may have, but let me remove that and see what's actually happening without all of this personal additive that I'm giving.

Davis proposes describing the frenemy across five key personality categories. So the first one is intellect. How do these people think? And how do they process information? Like, are they smart or shallow?

Are they curious or concrete? Like, what is the driver in their case?

Second is emotionality. So how they express and experience emotions? Like, are they a person who's very moody, or are they kind of like Zen and stable? Are they warm and fuzzy? Or are they more like icy, you know, ice people very cold and don't express their emotions?

So that is the second one. The third one is sociability. How do they engage with others? Are they people who are, like, very charming, or are they standoffish? Are they very communicative?

Are they more on the quiet side and don't speak too much? Understand that aspect of them. Number four is drive. What motivates them? What propels them?

Are they ambitious? Are they kind of more like a laissez faire kind of person? Are they uber competitive? Are they more into collaborating and working with people? Pinpoint that as well.

And finally, number five, diligence. How they approach getting work done. Like, are they people who are very structured and have to have, like, a minute and an agenda for everything? Or are they people that have spontaneous outbreaks of communication and brainstorms. Are they perfectionistic, or are they kind of flexible and kind of can win things more?

Determining all of these different aspects and getting that personality blueprint can help you better understand the root causes behind your frenemies behavior and, you know, use that knowledge to navigate that relationship, that relationship more effectively for you. So I think all of that advice makes so much sense. But when I hear you talking about that and thinking about how much time it would take to actually really objectively ask yourself those questions and observe your frenemies behavior, the thing that pops out to me is time. Exactly that time. It can't be something that is, like, rushed or spur of the moment or, you know, this is probably something that could take, you know, observe, observing, weeks, months, possibly, to be able to really assess if this is something that the person might be going through a rough patch in their life.

Glenda Pachinens
Maybe they have something going on at home. Maybe they're really stressed out. Like, think about it and be objective, but take the time to do it right. So I think that's the first thing that popped in my head. But the other thing is, this really makes sense for any relationship that you have, right?

Not just a frenemy relationship. Because if you think about it in terms of that personality, personality blueprint, which I think is like a fabulous way of saying, like, x raying that other person's motivation and the behavior to try to understand them better, I think that's a great piece of advice for anything, any sort of relationship you have with a person, because when you try to put yourself in their perspective and see the world through their lens, you get a whole different idea about the person. So I think that's really, really smart advice. Oh, 100%. Like, I will be using this for my daughter in middle school.

Aileen Merciel
I think, you know, the more that you learn this early on. Yeah. The more that this will be applicable, you know, to anything. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Glenda Pachinens
Because. And that leads us to the next part of the advice that we got out of that article, and it's once you understand your frenemy's personality, then you should be able to decide if you want to have direct conversation with that person about the relationship. Right. Like, you asked me the question, did you have a conversation with her? And at the time, I didn't.

But now, looking back, I wish I had, because, you know, in the article, according to doctor Daniel Boscaljohn, an executive coach and workplace culture consultant, workplace frenemy relationships are often just caused by poor communication and sometimes even mutual distrust. So if you think about it. If you're having a thoughtful conversation, one that's empathetic and direct, you can help clarify boundaries and expectations. And maybe, who knows? You might even be able to transform that frenemy dynamic into a relationship that's actually honest and healthy and at a minimum, at least establish, like, a more clear boundaries with respect and honesty, because at the end of the day, that's what we all want.

Right. It's just difficult to have those conversations sometimes with somebody, especially if you think that there's some mistrust or some, like, ulterior motives that people might have with their relationships with you. So I have a really good example of this, actually. I was very young in my career. I was like, I think I was, like, 23 or something like that.

Aileen Merciel
And I was hired at this place, and when I was hired, in about four or five months, my boss and most of my coworkers quit and left, and I was the most senior person. We were five months in. Yeah. So I like, I'm like, okay. So I recruited people.

I hired people. I brought in a team that was, like, really good. So I was forced to take on a leadership role in getting shit done. And that lasted, like, for another six months. And then they decided to bring in a new team.

Right? So they brought in this manager. They brought in a coordinator. And, you know, again, as a young person, I was like, I would have wanted to be considered because I've been running this show, you know, alone for this while. Right.

So these new people come in. It wasn't great. The manager, like, there was no connection with me. She did not like me. And I remember having a conversation with her saying, look, I would really like the coordinator to meet with me.

She's never met with me. I want her to understand where I'm coming from so we can, like, talk this through and see how it's gonna work. That never happened. So the manager gets fired, and I'm left with this coordinator that I'm pissed because, like, I had asked her to come meet with me, and she never did. And she's, like, in the leadership position here, right?

And so I was becoming passive aggressive. Like, I did not have the best attitude. Like, given I wasn't being an angel in the situation at all, I was pissed. But then it came to a moment where I'm just like, this is going nowhere. This isn't good for me.

I'm not wanting coming to work, so I'm gonna be the bigger person here. So I invited her to go to lunch. I'm like, let's go to lunch. There was, like, a restaurant upstairs. Let's go.

The place is called La Cosa Nostra. Very mafia, very mafia themed. And I remember just going there, having a drink and just saying, look, I know I have not been a model employee since you got here. Let me tell you why I really am upset that you never came and talked to me, and I specifically asked the boss for you to do that. And she was like, she never told me that.

Glenda Pachinens
What? And I was like, oh, okay. She's like, she never told me that you wanted to meet with me. I was a little bit intimidated because you were running the show, so I thought you were pissed because of what you were doing, so I really wasn't sure how to handle it. Long story short, we ended up that lunch being in a completely different place.

Aileen Merciel
I adore her to pieces to this day. We won a ton of awards together. She was awesome, and it completely changed the dynamic. Well, that is an amazing story. Talk about, like, taking the high road, being the bigger person, and coming out with a completely different outcome.

Glenda Pachinens
Right. So beneficial for me. Well, later in life, I ended up being in a position in a different company, and I hired her to be the creative director for the department. Wow. Because I knew her and trusted her so much.

Aileen Merciel
So, you know, it's possible, but it takes. Obviously, you have to put on the big girl pants that day and have those hard conversations, but, wow, that's a great, great anecdote because it really turned out in the best possible way. I mean, you know, I was very mature. There you go. For once.

Yeah, yeah. That one time very early on in your career. Yes. Never again. So, moving along, what this article also says is you need to learn to protect yourself.

So if you do have this conversation, Moshe Cohen suggests that you should be careful in what you say during this conversation, because if you have this relationship where you're not sure where you stand, you don't want this person to potentially use your words against you. So in addition to having this conversation and framing it in a way that is thoughtful, you also want to make sure that you have strong relationships with others in the company, especially with colleagues, bosses, or peers that you have in common. So those people can vouch for you. Absolutely. It's not just that person's voice against yours.

No. So, for example, if you both have the same boss, which that can happen a lot. It happened to you, Glenda. Right. So make sure you build a good relationship with your boss or with the people that influence your boss.

So you want to ensure that they get that information from you, and they're not just being fed info and perspective from your frenemy. Absolutely. That makes so much sense, you know, and then last but not least, and this one is a really important one. And I think, Eileen, your anecdote that you just shared is a perfect highlight of this own your piece of this situation. So own your role in this frenemy situation.

Glenda Pachinens
It's really important that you consider your own contribution to that frenemy dynamic rather than just blaming the other person. I mean, is it you? Is there something going on with you? You know, experts suggest asking yourself several important questions, and these are the types of questions that might be difficult for you to answer. But, Eileen, you clearly did it because you said, you know what?

I'm not being the best person I could be right now in this situation. What am I contributing to the tension between me and this frenemy? And if you do that, so if you ask yourselves, what are you doing to contribute to that situation? What assumptions are you making about the other person or the situation? And can you separate what's truth and fact from what you are speculating about or what you are assuming to be true?

Because sometimes there's a frenemy narrative that you impose on a situation based on maybe your own fears, your own insecurities, your own misinterpretations of their actions. And you're going to be quick to see them as the adversary rather than somebody who's just navigating a very difficult situation on their own, because sometimes the reality is a lot more complicated that you might make it out to be and honest in examining your home, your own behavior, your own personality, your own perceptions, and just. Just the way you're approaching the situation, you're going to be more objective in ensuring that you are maintaining your own integrity and that you're keeping your own emotional reactions in check before you take actions that you regret. And I think, Eileen, that anecdote that you shared is perfect, honestly perfect, because you took a situation and you handled it. You owned up to your role in that, and it turned out to be, you know, now something that is one of your best work relationships, right?

Because you even ended up hiring her at a different place. So that's really, really great. And specifically, like, I'm going to give you an example, like, putting myself in her place. So she was, you know, my creative boss. So, you know, I was complaining that she wouldn't come and, like, meet with me and whatnot.

Aileen Merciel
And of course, like, the few times that she did, I was a little bitch, right? I was just like, so standoffish. It's like, what are you gonna tell me? Like, I've been running this place for the last. You know, even though I'm 22, I know what I'm doing.

So, of course, she didn't want to come and meet with me because it wasn't productive. And I was giving out a vibe that said, you know, like, cat mode, like, you know, with the. With the claws out. So that was on me. And again, I like reflecting on him.

It's like, yeah, like, I probably wouldn't want to be my boss right now either. But until you do that, you. It's like, it's all the blame was on her, and it wasn't.

So the point here is, be proactive. Do not have that easy to have victim mindset, and, you know, take action. You know, put things in your own hands to find a solution. In this case, it really worked out well. Maybe another person.

It's not going to be like a happy ending, but at least, you know, you have taken the steps to protect yourself and to try to make that relationship as positive as possible. Absolutely. Really well said. I think in talking about all of this and thinking about it, this is one of those situations where your emotional intelligence really, really comes in handy here. Yeah.

Glenda Pachinens
Because, you know, you were young in that scenario that you just laid out, but you still had that emotional intelligence and the ability to be self aware enough to recognize your place in handling that situation. And, yeah, it's true. Not everyone is going to have a situation where it was a misinterpretation or a miscommunication. Some people really do work with other people who want to undermine them and actively want to see them fall flat on their face, and that sucks. But hopefully, if you take this advice and if you are objective and honest about everything that we've been talking about, you'll be able to handle it in a way that can give you a benefit and at least help you navigate it in a better way.

And not just like, oh, you're gonna give it to me? I'm gonna give it right back to you. Yeah, it's not gonna end anywhere good. And if that doesn't work, if that doesn't work, there's always witchcraft. So don't lose faith in a place we work for.

Aileen Merciel
There was a lot of witchcraft, and this is no joke. This is no joke. Clarify. Clarify. It was not in the workplace.

Glenda Pachinens
It was not that. The company where we worked at, which it was in the neighborhood. In the neighborhood. And there were people at the that really believed in witchcraft, and I heard about potions and shit and freezing people. Damn.

You never told me about that. Freezing people's pictures? Yeah, you take a picture and put it in the freezer so you can freeze their ascent to power. Like I heard. Crazy shit.

You never tell me this. I thought you knew this. No. Yeah. I mean, I know of it, but I didn't know people actually thought that shit back in the day.

Aileen Merciel
Yeah. Oh, this is juicy. So if you're stuck in a rut in your professional life, maybe somebody put your picture in the freezer and froze you. We do not condone this kind of behavior. Let's just be clear.

Glenda Pachinens
Go use the article. That's why we're making this podcast. Don't use witchcraft. Use the article. Exactly.

Okay. On that note, I think that's a great place to wrap up.

Aileen Merciel
Surfing. Corporate is produced and edited by me, Aileen Merciel, and made better by Glenn the Pachkanen's slayer of red carpets. And we, of course, would love to thank our amazing intern, stephanie Hilda Succor. Our original theme song is by Chaliwa Music, and the rest of it is by Blue Dot Sessions.

Glenda Pachinens
Don't forget to follow surfing corporate on Instagram. And remember, you guys can always reach out to us@aileenurfingcorporate.com. Dot or glendaleurfingcorporate.com. We always would love to hear from you. Stay safe out there.

Aileen Merciel
Sorper purpose.

Stay safe out there. Corporate surfers, please keep that last one, please.

Glenda Pachinens
Oh, this is great. Fun times.

D
As a longtime foreign correspondent, I've worked in lots of places, but nowhere as important to the world as China. I'm Jane Pearlaz, former Beijing bureau chief for the New York Times. Join me on my new podcast, face off, us versus China, where I'll take you behind the scenes in the tumultuous US China relationship. Find face off wherever you get your podcasts.

How to Deal with Frenemies at Work

Primary Topic

Episode Summary

Main Takeaways

Episode Chapters

1: Introduction

2: Defining Frenemies

3: Personal Stories

4: Expert Advice

5: Conclusion

Actionable Advice

About This Episode

People

Content Warnings:

Transcript