What to Know About Debate Night

This episode provides a comprehensive preview and analysis of a historic presidential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, focusing on expectations, strategies, and potential impacts.

1. This debate is historically significant as it features a face-off between a former and a current president, which has never happened before in American history.
2. The episode highlights the intense preparation and strategic considerations by both camps, reflecting the tight competition and high stakes involved.
3. Legal issues surrounding Trump, including his recent conviction, play a significant role in the debate dynamics.
4. Key issues like democracy, the economy, and abortion rights are central themes, with both candidates poised to capitalize on these topics to appeal to voters.
5. The episode also sheds light on broader topics like a Supreme Court decision leak and political unrest in Kenya, situating the debate within a wider context of global and national issues.

1. Debate Preview

The episode sets the stage for a crucial presidential debate, discussing the historical significance and the unique context of the event. Key points include the candidates' previous encounters and the unusual timing of the debate. Brad Milke: "Never before in American history have we seen a former president debate a current one."

2. Candidate Strategies

Focuses on the strategic preparations by both the Biden and Trump campaigns, examining how personal and political challenges might influence their debate performances. Rachel Scott: "The stakes are extremely high... all eyes are going to be on every single word."

3. Legal and Political Context

Discusses Trump's legal troubles and their potential impact on his debate performance, including how these issues intersect with campaign strategies. Rachel Scott: "Now, you have the former president found guilty... He's also going to be on that debate stage as a convicted felon this time."

4. Key Issues and Policies

Highlights the major topics expected to dominate the debate discussion, such as democracy, abortion rights, the economy, and immigration. Brad Milke: "President Biden is going to drill in on this idea of democracy, that the former president is simply unfit to serve."

5. Global and National News

Covers other significant news items that provide a backdrop to the debate, including a Supreme Court decision leak and political unrest in Kenya. Brad Milke: "A major abortion decision just get released accidentally? The Supreme Court snafu after the break?"

1. Stay Informed: Keep up-to-date with political events and debates to understand the implications for governance and policy.
2. Evaluate Sources: Critically assess information and claims made during debates and in the media.
3. Participate in Democracy: Engage in the democratic process by voting, discussing issues, and encouraging informed debate.
4. Understand Legal Contexts: Recognize how legal issues surrounding candidates can affect their policies and public perceptions.
5. Global Awareness: Pay attention to international events and their potential impact on national policies and attitudes.

President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump prepare to face off in Atlanta for a historic debate. The Supreme Court seems to “inadvertently” reveal a key abortion decision. And Kenya’s president backs off a controversial policy after violence consumes the capital.

People

Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Rachel Scott, Brad Milke, Terry Moran, Matt Rivers

Content Warnings:

None

A
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A
It's Thursday, June 27. The debate we thought would never happen is about to get underway. We start here.

Four years after their last meeting, Joe Biden and Donald Trump prepare to face off.

C
Never before in american history have we seen a former president debate.

A
A current one will set the stage in Atlanta. The Supreme Court releases its biggest decision of the term thus far, by accident.

D
So somebody messed up, hit the wrong key, and off it went.

A
What it could mean for a border in hospitals and an african democracy faces a breaking point.

E
I concede.

A
Why Kenya's president is backing down in the face of violence.

From ABC News, this is start here. I'm Brad Milke.

I have never said this so early in a general election cycle, but it's debate day. You might remember. It wasnt a given that President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump would debate each other at all this year.

D
It depends on his behavior.

A
Biden didnt seem interested in speaking over interruptions from Trump. Trump was leery about putting his faith in the traditional commission on presidential debates. Well, then each candidate made agreements with specific media networks for two ABC News in September and CNN before the conventions even begin. In the spirit of a traditional presidential debate, other networks will be allowed to simulcast these, which is why starting at 08:00 p.m. eastern time tonight, ABC will have full live coverage of the pregame and then the debate itself at nine. And right there in Atlanta at CNN headquarters will be ABC senior congressional correspondent and resident campaign bus chaser Rachel Scott. Rachel, set us up here. How high are the stakes for this debate tonight?

C
Brad, the stakes are extremely high. So never before in american history has there been a debate this early. Never before in american history have we seen a former president debate, a current one. And these are two of the oldest candidates to ever face off in the race for the White House. Not only that, Brad, the polls are just so tight. President Biden and former President Donald Trump are neck and neck. So all eyes are going to be on every single word and also every single movement, a physical stumble, a pause, maybe a mental lapse could raise a lot of questions among some voters who will be watching this debate. This is also the time where voters are starting to tune in. They're really starting to get in tune with what these candidates are, each pitching their visions for the country. So there will certainly be a lot to talk about on that debate stage tonight.

A
And you mentioned sort of age and acuity. Can we talk about expectations here? Cause I feel like campaigns are always trying to downplay expectations. Like, you know, all the pressures in our opponent, Donald Trump has attacked Biden's mental acuity so much that it feels like as long as Biden doesn't fall asleep during the debate, he would win the expectations game. Right?

C
Yeah. And Brad, you know, I think Trump has realized that. And so he's really been all over the map trying to change the tone a little bit here. He's done everything from call President Biden the worst debater to now calling him a worthy debater. But just days ago, out on the campaign trail, he implied and suggested that the president was using supplements to get jacked up.

D
So a little before debate time, he gets a shot in the ass, and that's, they want to strengthen him up.

C
These are baseless and unfounded claims that the Biden campaign is just brushing off at this point, but also for Trump, Brad, so much has changed since the last time these two candidates were in the same room. We were in the middle of a pandemic. This was 2020, January 6. The riot on Capitol Hill had not happened yet. Not only that, Brad, but Donald Trump hadn't even been indicted once. The last time that these two candidates.

D
Saw each other, the american principle that no one is above the law was reaffirmed.

C
Now, you have the former president found guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records. He's also gonna be on that debate stage as a convicted felon this time.

A
Well, and speaking of the legal issues here, like, there was a gag order from the judge in that case in New York. I guess the case is still ongoing because Trump hasn't been sentenced yet. But part of this gag order basically said, you can't talk about witnesses involved in this case. It would be witness intimidation that's been partially lifted now.

C
Right?

A
Does that give Trump sort of more freedom on stage tonight?

C
Just a little bit, Brad. And so this is a partial lifting of the gag order. It allows the former president to talk about witnesses in the case. That includes his former fixer Michael Cohen. It also allows him to talk about the jury, which ultimately found him guilty on those 30 44 counts of falsifying business records. I will tell you, talking to sources close to the campaign, those that have been involved in debate prep, there was a little bit of like a sigh of relief when this gag order was still in place because they could tell the former president, hey, you can't really touch that, right?

D
I'm gagged. I'm not allowed to say what I'd like to really say.

You'd be very impressed, but I'm gagged, so why would I take the chance?

C
Well, now, with this partially being lifted, it opens up the door for the former president to possibly go on a tangent if he wants to, about Michael Cohen.

A
Like, he can legally do it, even if they don't want him to do it.

C
He can legally do it, Brad. But politically, is it really smart for him to be doing that on the debate stage when he's trying to pitch his vision for the country? His advisors will say, absolutely not. They want him to focus on the core issues. But I am told that they have been talking and discussing how the former president should address a range of topics, including his conviction, as well as January 6. The former president has promised to pardon the rioters who stormed the Capitol that day. He calls them hostages. Well, his advisors are hoping that he kind of makes that a little bit more broad and says he only hopes to do it by a case by case basis.

A
Hey, when we talk about, you said sort of the issues of the campaign. Yeah, we talked so much about style. What about the substance? Like, are there issues here that you expect these candidates to zero in on?

C
Absolutely. So we know that President Biden is going to drill in on this idea of democracy, that the former president is simply unfit to serve.

D
Again, this mag of threat is a threat to the brick and mortar of our democratic institutions, but it's also a threat to the character of our nation.

C
We also know that the administration has put abortion rights front and center. They say Donald Trump appointing three of the five Supreme Court justices that overturn Roe v. Wade, cleared the way for 21 states to impose severe restrictions. Then on the other end, you have the Trump campaign. They are going to want the former president to really stay focused on the economy, crime, and immigration. Those are the issues that they know do really well, not only among their base, but also independent voters in many of these critical battleground states. The challenge, Brad, for the Trump campaign, they don't know what version of Donald Trump they are going to get.

The former president interrupted President Biden and the moderator in that first debate last cycle over 140 times.

F
Wow.

C
And so recently, privately and publicly, Trump has somewhat acknowledged some regret over doing that. He knows it didn't necessarily really play all that well for him in the end, but can he resist doing that this time around? Sure, the mics might help, but also, he has no studio audience. And if there's one thing about the former president, I will tell you he loves a crowd. He feeds off of that energy. That's going to be gone as well. His advisors, though, are hoping that helps keep him a little bit more on message.

A
Yeah, really fascinating 90 minutes of debate coming up here. All right, Rachel Scott will be following this all in Atlanta. Thank you so much.

C
Thanks, Brad.

A
Next up on start here, did a major abortion decision just get released accidentally? The Supreme Court snafu after the break?

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We were expecting yesterday a pretty full day of Supreme Court decisions. After all, they got a lot of opinions left to hand down and not a lot of days left in their term. So everyone's watching this webpage where the court publishes their decisions. The first one comes out, it's an interesting case about social media. Then another case pops up, and then suddenly they announce they're done for the day. And everyone who follows the court was like, well, shoot. Not as much news as we expected. Pack it up. Well, then something weird happened. Bloomberg News reported that for a brief moment, another document popped up on that site. It appeared to be a decision about abortion. Of course, a case about abortion in Idaho is one of the most anticipated cases of this term. So had they just accidentally tipped their hand? Well, it was soon taken down from the site, leaving the whole legal world scratching their heads and the abortion rights movement very much on edge. ABC senior national correspondent Terry Moran is here. He covers the court. Terry, what happened here?

D
What is going on? Brad? I mean, that's quite, I've been covering the court for a long time and I've seen some strange things, but nothing like this. This apparently was the inadvertent posting and premature, I think if you look at the case of this case out of Idaho, and it is the most important abortion rights case since the court overruled Roe v. Wade two years ago. And it has to do with Idaho's ban on abortions, with really the only exceptions being rape and incest and necessary to prevent death. Those are the words necessary to prevent death. Now the federal government has a law since the 1980s that anyone who goes into an emergency room gets the emergency care they need. And the government was arguing in this case, even in those rare and tragic cases where the emergency care that is needed to stabilize a patient is the termination of a pregnancy. So that was what was at issue. And we got the courts apparently what looks to be the court's ruling.

A
But wait, Terry, what's so weird is how this is specifically about abortion, because this is not the first time we've gotten a premature draft ruling about abortion from this court that overturned Roe that appeared to be intentionally leaked to the press several years ago. But this sounds different than that. I guess.

D
That's right. That was a malicious leak. The court investigated to see if they could find out who leaked the Dobbs decision overturning Roe versus Wade. Justice Alito's opinion, and they never came to a firm conclusion. This, the court said in a statement, was an inadvertent posting of this, of this document, as they called it, because not an opinion until it's officially released by court personnel. So somebody messed up, hit the wrong key and off it went.

A
What does the draft say? According to Bloomberg, according to what we've seen, what does the ruling say?

D
Well, if it is the official ruling or anything like it, it looks like they punted. It looks like they did not decide the clash between the federal law saying women who need an abortion for emergency reasons to stabilize their health and prevent harm to their health, and Eidos law saying absolutely no abortions unless its necessary to prevent death. They arent going to decide that if this writing, if this document holds, and because the argument that is advanced by the majority, which, by the way, is three liberals and three conservatives, is that the law had changed on them. Thats what Amy Coney Barrett wrote, that the Supreme Court of Idaho reinterpreted the law and the state legislature of Idaho rewrote the law in between the time the federal district court, which is the opinion that theyre looking at in the Supreme Court and now. So its not even the same law. And what they said is that they improvidently granted certiorari, they improvidently took the case. It wasnt soup yet. Basically, they have to wait for the lower courts really to develop the facts and the opinions and the briefings and the lower court opinions and dissents. They really want a full look at how this is really operating now that it's been changed twice. So the bottom line, however, is that if this is the official ruling, when it is released, doctors in emergency rooms will be able to, if needed, perform abortions on women in order to prevent serious harm to their health. For now, this case is almost certainly coming back.

For now, this is not a settled matter.

A
Hey, while we've got you, Terry, can we talk about the decision that was finalized yesterday, this decision on social media and the federal government? What was this case?

D
Well, this was a huge case, especially for conservatives. The state of Texas and Louisiana and five social media users brought a case against the surgeon general of the United States and the FBI, 60 agencies and individuals in the government for what they said was censorship of their social media posts during the Covid-19 pandemic and the 2020 election.

And this was a huge case for conservatives. The court in this case, by a strong vote of six to three, once again, liberals joining conservatives said that they were suing the wrong people, that the federal government didn't do anything here except try to jawbone publishers and social media users, that under the court's rules, under the rules of law in this country, in order to bring a case against someone, you have to have a concrete particular imminent actual, not speculative, probable, but actual injury that is traceable to the actions directly to the actions of the person you're suing.

A
Like if Facebook shuts you down and they happen to talk to the government, you can't say, oh, the government shut me down. No, it's still Facebook. They're a private company.

D
It's still Facebook.

A
I see.

D
And they do. They did develop a factual record of officials in the White House and other agencies yelling at social media companies and trying to bully them. Well, having covered the White House for six years, almost like, I don't remember a week that went by that I didn't get called by some high official yelling at me. And it was funny. In the oral arguments, Justice Elena Kagan, who was solicitor general and in the Justice Department for a long time, and Brett Kavanaugh, who was Ken Starr's pr guy, they said, you know, government's always trying to, you know, muscle reporters to get a better story. That's basically the history of the press and the government.

And the government does have a right to inform and to try to persuade.

When it comes to threats, which is what these plaintiffs were alleging, they have to be direct threats, that the standard is very high in the law. And the court also noted that those communications had begun during the Trump administration between the CDC and the White House and social media companies. So this is how government works was basically the bottom line.

A
Really interesting stuff here. And, of course, we'll be waiting for this decision. This, you know, again, it could still be changed, but we'll see if this abortion ruling does, in fact, come down today. Terry Moran covering the court. Thank you.

D
You bet.

A
Spring in the US was dominated by protests which were intense, they were polarizing, but they were also overwhelmingly peaceful. It's when you see a protest go bad that you really realize how delicate democracy can be. Well, this week in Kenya, that is, unfortunately exactly what we've seen.

D
Images of violent clashes between demonstrators and police in Nairobi.

Authorities firing live ammunition and tear gas into crowds.

A
Well, now, in the last 24 hours, two things have happened. Kenyan authorities have overturned the bill that set off all this violence in the first place. And members of the kenyan police force have shown up in Haiti as part of a long awaited peacekeeping mission. Not a lot of peace in Kenya itself, though. So let's bring in ABC's foreign correspondent Matt Rivers. Matt, what is going on in Kenya right now?

F
There's a couple things that we know that's going on in Kenya right now. One is that the economy's not doing great. People aren't thrilled about that. They're struggling to make ends meet every day. On the other side, you have decades of what you could easily call mismanagement that has led to staggering levels of debt for Kenya's government.

E
We want to promise you, the great people of Kenya, that your money will not get lost, that your money will not be stolen.

F
The government of President William Rudo has long said, and was in part elected when he was elected in 2022, that he was going to make the economy better, he was going to lower that debt, he was going to make life better for ordinary Kenyans.

E
Enough is enough and freedom is coming.

F
What he and his coalition, his governing coalition in Kenya tried to do recently was push through. And ultimately they did pass a bill that would essentially raise taxes across the board on a lot of items that people say these would be punitive taxes on kind of staple items like onions, for example. There would be taxes that would affect working class people. But yet this bill wouldn't solve a lot of the problems that I just laid out. But they push through this bill, they vote on it in parliament on Tuesday and they actually pass it. At the same time that these legislators are inside the parliament building, they're in Nairobi. Protesters are gathering outside.

E
Then why are you doing this?

Why are you doing this?

F
And it is becoming more and more violent.

The police get called in. The military gets called in.

Live rounds are fired. What we know right now is activists say some 23 people at least have been killed as a result of these protests.

E
Mister speaker, sir, army are to address you.

You must go.

F
Protestors actually temporarily breached the parliament building. They temporarily lit part of the parliament building's entryway on fire.

And it really shocked people in Kenya.

E
They killed our colleagues and fellow youths. It is very devastating because these are young kids. They were out to fight for their.

F
Rights in a very volatile region in this part of Africa, Kenya. Some 54 million people in that country. It's long stood out as one of the more stable parts of this region. And yet this kind of demonstration, these kind of killings, these kind of protests, has really shaken that country to its core.

A
How has the government responded in Kenya since the horrors that we saw on Tuesday?

F
At first, William Rudo comes out and calls the protesters treasonous.

E
Kenya experienced an unprecedented attack.

F
He makes vague, unspecified allegations that these protesters are being stirred up by, quote, foreign forces. Stop me if you've heard government officials say that before in other countries around the world.

E
Today's events mark a critical turning point on how we respond to grave threats to our national security.

F
He said that they were the privileged youth who arrived to the protests in fancy Ubers. So he really was not sympathetic at all at first. Then fast forward to Wednesday.

E
I concede, and therefore I will not sign.

F
Something changes where all of a sudden now president Rudo rejects that bill. So the bill that had actually passed through parliament the day before, despite the protests, has now been rejected by the president.

E
I am directing for immediate further austerity measures.

F
He's going to address some of their concerns, he says, which include excess government spending, the perception that both himself and members of his government live these lavish lifestyles. It wasn't that long ago that he hosted King Charles III for an eight course state dinner at the same time that many Kenyans are struggling to rub two coins together. And so there's that perception that he's battling there. It does appear that he has conceded to these protesters, and so we're going to see where it goes now over the next couple of weeks. But clearly these protests had a major effect and have completely charted, at least temporarily, a different path for this government and the governing coalition led by President Rudo.

A
And this all comes, as I mentioned earlier, Matt, Kenya, you'd think all their military members are there on the streets. They've sent their own forces over to Haiti to help fight against months of gang violence there. What do we know about, you've been reporting on this mission before it was even on the ground.

F
That's exactly right. And our listeners can be forgiven here if we're all of a sudden talking about Haiti, and that seems like a lot of whiplash. So let me just kind of give the backstory there briefly.

What you've seen in Haiti over the last couple of years is gangs completely take over the city of Port au Prince.

And it really came to a head earlier this year where gangs basically managed to topple the government of acting Prime Minister Ariel Henri. And as a response to calls from the United States and others, Kenya has agreed to send hundreds of its police officers, in fact, more than a thousand of its police officers, as a part of a multinational security force to Haiti to try and restore some of the peace there, to try and restore security to the streets of Port au Prince.

E
We are making this response because it is what is right.

F
Kenya might not seem like the most obvious country to lead such an effort, given that its own police have been accused for decades of credible allegations of brutality. And yet Kenya's president, William Rudo, sensing an opportunity perhaps to cozy up to the United States to be seen as a more internationally oriented country, says we're going to send hundreds of our own police officers to Haiti. So the first 400 of those officers just got to Haiti this week in terms of what their mission is going to be, what we're told from sources on the ground in Port au prince, they're not expected to partake in gangland operations to go into some of these neighborhoods. What they're going to do is try and keep roadways open, keep parts of the city that are controlled by the government in government control. They're there in a more support role. So that is what their mission is at the moment, which we're going to be keeping a very close eye on. But just to kind of refocus this all back on Kenya, what you're seeing in terms of this popular discontent is people who are looking at a president that they feel is wildly out of touch with what is actually going on in Kenya. A president who's trying to project this international image, who's more concerned with how he's viewed abroad by countries like the United States and others a la what he's doing in Haiti, instead of looking at the very real problems that his own people are facing and focusing his attention inward. And I think the manifestation of that frustration has, in part, displayed itself in the streets of Nairobi this week.

A
Wow, what a moment. And what a week for, like you said, what has been viewed traditionally as a pretty stable democracy in this part of the world. All right, Matt Rivers, thank you so much.

F
Thanks, Brad.

A
Okay, one more quick break. When we come back, the Flintstones might have had real concerns about scurvy, but how much is that multivitamin helping you nowadays? One last thing is next.

And one last thing. I just had my annual physical the other day. Doctor said, hey, blood pressure is good. You don't smoke. That's good. Your diet appears objectively terrible. And so I leave being like, you know what I should start doing? I should start taking a multivitamin, like, get all my nutrients that those tortilla chips don't give me. Well, I kid you not. Less than 24 hours later, a study has come out in the medical journal JAma, saying multivitamins are kind of, eh. So you're leaving us, right? It's finally happening.

B
I will always be on call for you and start here and ABC News. But officially, today is my last day.

A
I called up our chief medical correspondent, Doctor Jennifer Ashton, on literally her last day of work before she leaves ABC to focus on her own projects. Cause I wanted to ask her about.

F
This study, but there used to be.

B
A saying in medicine that multivitamins just simply produce expensive urine.

A
So apparently the National Institutes of Health have been tracking vitamin users for the last 20 years. They say, obviously getting vitamins and minerals are important to our health, but they also say if you think you're a healthier person because you take a multivitamin every day, well, they don't appear to have that big of an effect.

B
This NIH study apparently did not show that multivitamins were associated with any longevity or reduction in what we call all cause mortality, death from all reasons.

A
That's right. According to the study, if you're generally a healthy person, multivitamins seemingly have no effect on your lifespan. In fact, in this study, the multivitamin users were 4% more likely to die early.

B
It's a lot of money spent over someone's lifetime for not a lot of benefit, or as I like to say, a long run for a short slide.

A
Now, doctor Jen said, there are many reasons you might want to take a multivitamin, but only if you're doing it in a targeted way.

B
I used to think if someone ate well, there was absolutely no need for a multivitamin. But when I was getting my degree in nutrition, we actually had to chart our own dietary intake, and I personally was falling short on a lot of the micronutrient recommendations.

A
She says lots of people's diets mean they are missing out on certain vitamins, especially vitamins, vitamins B and D. Certain segments of the population are especially in need of extra nutrients.

B
Pregnant women, breastfeeding women, that's a great class of where the benefit definitely outweighs any downside.

Certain people who have had bariatric or weight loss surgery or have been diagnosed with vitamin deficiencies, then by all means, go for it.

A
The study author said they did not measure how multivitamins affected people in these groups. They said there could be benefits here, just not the lifespan thing. But they also said for all the attention paid to micronutrients, these very specific vitamin compounds, they rarely make up for an unhealthy diet. Real food, they say, is where you get macronutrients, where you get fiber, and since you're eating fruits and vegetables that are giving you all those nutrients, you're also not stuck with an empty stomach, craving fattier foods that carry their own risks. That's why nutritionists like Doctor Jen say, go ahead, take a multivitamin if you like, but unless it's been recommended by a doctor, don't expect much from your money.

Where would we be without Doctor Jenn? Like literally any medical story. She knows something about it. You can call her anytime. She's been anchoring GMA three. She's been guiding us through the most challenging public health crisis of our lifetimes. And a lot of people don't know this. This entire time, she's continued to practice as an ob gyn patients. So we will miss Doctor Jen as she embarks on new projects focusing on women's health. You can actually check out her newsletter right now. It's called Agenda, spelled with a j. Get it? I'm Brad Milke. See you tomorrow.