Vibe Schiff: Top Democrats Turn Against Biden

This episode delves into the significant dissent within the Democratic Party concerning President Joe Biden's potential reelection, amid his health issues and political challenges.

1. Growing Dissent: Top Democrats, including Adam Schiff, express significant doubts about Biden's candidacy, suggesting a shift towards a new leader might be necessary.
2. Biden's Health Concerns: Amidst political challenges, Biden's COVID diagnosis adds to the instability of his reelection campaign.
3. Republican Convention Focus: JD Vance's nomination and his speech underscore the Republican strategy and their focus on 'forgotten Americans.'
4. Impact of Trump's Assassination Attempt: The episode also touches on the assassination attempt on Donald Trump, highlighting its influence on the convention's tone and discussions.
5. Political and Personal Challenges: The combination of political dissent, health issues, and external threats paint a complex picture for Biden's campaign.

1: Introduction and Context

The episode opens with the current political scenario where President Biden faces significant opposition from within his party. Brad Milke: "Momentum is quickly turning against President Biden."

2: Democratic Dissent

Discussion on the growing uncertainty among Democrats regarding Biden's future and Schiff's call for Biden to step aside. Mary Bruce: "Schiff saying bluntly, I believe it is time for him to pass the torch."

3: Republican National Convention

Focus shifts to the Republican National Convention, particularly JD Vance's acceptance of the vice-presidential nomination. JD Vance: "I officially accept your nomination to be vice president of the United States of America."

4: Biden's COVID Diagnosis and Its Implications

Details Biden's COVID diagnosis and its timing during crucial campaign moments. Mary Bruce: "He has been doing a lot of campaigning because, of course, that's what his democratic detractors and doubters had been demanding."

5: Political Repercussions and Future Implications

Explores the broader political implications of Biden's health and party dissent, looking towards the upcoming election. Brad Milke: "Biden is going to lose to Trump."

1. Stay Informed: Keep abreast of political developments to make informed voting decisions.
2. Engage in Political Discussions: Participate in community and online forums to discuss and understand different political perspectives.
3. Support Transparency: Advocate for clarity and honesty from political leaders regarding their health and policies.
4. Promote Healthy Debates: Encourage respectful and constructive political debates among peers.
5. Practice Critical Thinking: Critically evaluate the information and promises made by politicians.

President Biden is diagnosed with COVID as more senior Democrats reportedly urge him to step aside from the campaign. JD Vance makes his debut as the GOP’s vice presidential nominee, with former President Trump set to speak tonight. And law enforcement sources say the Secret Service spotted the Trump rally gunman on the roof 20 minutes before he fired.

People

Joe Biden, Adam Schiff, JD Vance, Donald Trump

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Brad Milke
It's Thursday, July 18, and top Democrats are ready to call it. We start here.

Momentum is quickly turning against President Biden.

Mary Bruce
There is definitely growing uncertainty, especially among top Democrats, about the future of his campaign.

Brad Milke
And right as the president needs all his political strength, he's just received a Covid diagnosis. Meanwhile, at the republican convention, JD Vance introduces himself to the country.

JD Vance
I officially accept your nomination to be vice president of the United States, States of America.

Brad Milke
What he said and what we should expect from Donald Trump tonight. And the Secret Service had eyes on the gunman.

Josh Margolan
They actually saw crooks on the roof about 20 minutes before the shocking revelations.

Brad Milke
About the Trump assassination attempt.

From ABC News, this is start here. I'm Brad Milke.

Were going to talk a lot about the Republican National Convention today. Former President Trump speaks later on tonight. But the biggest story of this morning is whats going on among the Democrats. So you remember yesterday, we were telling you there was this scramble underway to slow down the machinations of the democratic nomination. The convention isnt until next month, but some states said thats too late to get Biden on a ballot. So they established this virtual convention vote as early as next week. Even when those state requirements went away, they were gonna stick with this early nominating contest, which must have been music to President Biden's ears, right? As long as top Democrats didn't stand in his way, he could get officially locked in as the nominee next week. Well, yesterday we learned that top Democrats have torpedoed that plan. They have pushed this crucial vote. And now some are openly saying he shouldn't be the nominee. After days of silence, his wall of support could be crumbling in real time. And on top of all this, the president who's claiming he feels strong enough to lead has just been diagnosed with COVID Let's go straight to ABC's chief White House correspondent Mary Bruce, who is in Milwaukee right now. Mary, first off, what is happening with the health of the president?

Mary Bruce
Well, the president this morning is isolating at home in his beach house in Rehoboth, Delaware. Here's what we know. The, the president's doctor said in a statement that he has mild symptoms. He has a runny nose, a non productive cough, general malaise. That's what was described to us, the White House stressing that, of course, he has been vaccinated, he has been boosted, and we do know that he now has had a first dose of Paxlovid. So he is riding out Covid, an experience that many Americans certainly can relate to. Now, he was out in Nevada when this happened in Las Vegas. He was set to speak at this big conference, trying to up his outreach to latino voters. And just as everyone was expecting the president to walk out, well, instead, one of the organizers of the event came out and announced the president would not be joining.

Jay O'Brien
He shared his deep disappointment at not being able to join us this afternoon.

Mary Bruce
The White House says he felt okay in the morning, but that symptoms developed throughout the day. And then after his first event there in Nevada. Yep, he tested positive for Covid. But, Brad, it could not have come at a more critical time in his campaign.

Brad Milke
Yeah, that's the thing, because this feels like this crucial moment just in terms of convincing Democrats that he's up for the job. How real is this attempt to, like, get him to step aside 2.0? How serious is it getting?

Mary Bruce
Look, there is definitely growing uncertainty, especially among top Democrats, about the future of his campaign. Right. Even as he's trying to push forward, he's out here in battleground states.

Brad Milke
There's a lot of speculation lately, what's Joe Biden going to do? Is he going to stay in the race? Is he going to drop out? Here's my answer. I am running and we're going to win.

Mary Bruce
He has been doing a lot of campaigning because, of course, that's what his democratic detractors and doubters had been demanding, that they needed to see Biden out more in unscripted moments, interacting with voters. Well, he's been doing a lot of that. Maybe one of the reasons he has Covid now. But back in Washington, we are, of course, seeing this chorus for him to step aside and exit the race is growing.

JD Vance
It's time to move forward with a new leader.

Brad Milke
Biden is going to lose to Trump.

I know that's difficult, but I think the damage has been done by that debate.

Jay O'Brien
With the greatest respect, I don't think he's up for it.

Mary Bruce
And it's really who now is calling him to step aside that is so notable, including Congressman Adam Schiff. He, of course, is running for Senate in California. He is a close friend of President Biden and also extremely close with the powerful former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. And now he is calling on Biden to leave the race. Schiff saying bluntly, I believe it is time for him to pass the torch and in doing so, secure his legacy of leadership by allowing us to defeat Donald Trump in the upcoming election. Adam Schiff, now the most senior Democrat, to come out and say that the stakes are simply too high. He thinks President Biden should exit the race.

Brad Milke
Right? Like you said Schiff is the highest ranking Democrat so far, but there are still a few Democrats above him. I'm thinking House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. I'm thinking Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. And we heard that, like, over the weekend, Democrats were going to be meeting with Biden to have all these frank discussions about whether he should drop out. I had assumed, Mary, that those were all getting derailed because of the assassination attempt on Trump. But it sounds like they did happen, right? How impactful were they?

Mary Bruce
Well, actually, about an hour before the assassination attempt on the former president, President Biden was in the midst of what sounds like a really heated phone call with moderate House Democrats. And according to multiple sources, it didn't really go well for the president. The call focusing mostly on members concerns about his ability to win the election. One House Democrat on the call describing to ABC News that Biden wasn't really prepared for questions, that he gave rambling responses without giving solid answers and downplayed their concerns and that there was actually a really tense exchange with Colorado Democrat Jason Crow Crowe questioning Biden's mental fitness and if his age is a national security risk. The president was apparently pretty defensive in his responses. One member saying it was hard to watch. This, of course, was a Zoom call. And the conversation actually became personal when Biden mentioned Crow's bronze star and attempted to bring up his son, Bo. Two sources describing the exchange as incoherent and unintelligible.

And we also know that over the weekend, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer had what sounds like a pretty blunt and frank conversation, one on one, just the two of them with President Biden. This is after, of course, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries also last week had a similar one on one conversation with the president, where we are told they bluntly conveyed the concerns of their democratic caucus. Those concerns, of course, being that if Biden remains at the top of the ticket, that Democrats could see a wipeout, that they could risk losing the House and the Senate.

Brad Milke
Yeah, Biden has said that he would drop out if there was data showing he could not win this race. It sounded like Schumer was trying to present that. And Biden also apparently told bet I could imagine dropping out if a doctor told me I've got a bad medical condition. Well, he's now sitting at home with COVID All right, Mary Bruce, thank you so much.

Mary Bruce
Thanks, Bradley.

Brad Milke
Next up on start here, President Biden wont be doing much speaking today, but former President Trump sure is a huge day for republicans after the break.

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Unidentified Speaker
The political center of gravity is shifting to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, this week for the Republican National Convention. And the FiveThirtyEight Politics podcast is going to be on the ground to cover it, Republicans will lay out their pitch to the nation for why they should get Americans votes. And it's happening amidst uncertainty over President Biden's position as the democratic nominee. And after months of scrutiny over former President Trump's legal challenges. We're going to sort through the noise and zoom in on what really matters, using data and research as we go. And we'll have daily episodes from the convention. Search for 538 politics wherever you get your podcasts.

Brad Milke
Last night was night three of the Republican National Convention. And at every convention, the star of the show, of course, is the nominee. But weve never seen something quite like this. Every night, former President Donald Trump has been inside the arena, sitting in this white armchair with family and colleagues, watching pretty much every primetime speech. The effect is you're not just watching the speeches, you're also watching Trump's reaction to the speeches. And this meant that as JD Vance, the young 39 year old senator from Ohio, took the stage last night as the vice presidential nominee, it was his chance to introduce himself to America. And it was also America's chance to see how Donald Trump truly feels about him. ABC's Jay Obrien has been on the convention floor all week. He joins us from Milwaukee. Jay, can you walk us through this speech?

Jay O'Brien
Look, there was a very positive reception to JD Vance in that room, not just by former President Trump, who, you know, was a little bit more stone faced at the beginning of the speech and really started to warm up to it as Vance was speaking. But also, there was a lot of energy in that room, and there was a lot of excitement amongst those republican delegates for JD Vance.

But you're exactly right. This was JD Vance, someone who is well known in republican circles. And obviously, he has that bestselling book, hillbilly elegy. But he might not be a household name. Or even if you know his name, you might not know his background and his story and what he says influences his politics.

JD Vance
I officially accept your nomination to be vice president of the United States of America.

Jay O'Brien
So he walked us through his life as a kid with roots in Appalachia, all the way to now being the vice presidential pick of Donald Trump's. He grew up in Ohio. He talks about his mother's struggle with addiction. He celebrated in the convention hall her earning ten years of sobriety.

JD Vance
Our movement is about single moms like mine who struggled with money and addiction but never gave up. And I'm proud to say that tonight, my mom is here. Ten years clean and sober.

Jay O'Brien
He was raised largely by his grandmother, a woman he calls mamade.

JD Vance
She also loved the f word.

I'm not kidding. She could make a sailor blush.

Jay O'Brien
He talked about how she had guns stashed in various places around the house for self defense. That got a big laugh. He talked about the time that she threatened to run over a kid in the neighborhood with her car because he was a drug dealer and she didn't want JD Vance hanging around him. Point being, this was to demonstrate to these attendees, but really to the millions of Americans watching at home where JD Vance comes from, and also what impacts his politics, his populist politics, his roots in Appalachia.

JD Vance
Wall street barons crashed the economy, and american builders went out of business as tradesmen scrambled for jobs, houses stopped being built.

The lack of good jobs, of course, led to stagnant wages. And then the Democrats flooded this country with millions of illegal aliens.

Jay O'Brien
He really hit on this idea that Trump made a big part of his campaign in 2020 somewhat, but really in 2016, this idea of forgotten men and women in America.

JD Vance
We're gonna build factories again. Put people to work, making real products for american families made with the hands of american workers.

Jay O'Brien
And then he starts talking about what that means in terms of policy, bringing back us manufacturing jobs, strict immigration policies, cutting down on undocumented immigration. He made a point to say that his wife, Usha, who introduced him, is the daughter of indian immigrants who immigrated to California. But he's fine with legal immigration. He says it's undocumented illegal immigration that he's against.

JD Vance
To the people of Middletown, Ohio, and all the forgotten communities in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Ohio, and every corner of our nation, I promise you this, I will be a vice president who never forgets where he came from.

Jay O'Brien
His background, he says, is going to be instructive as to who he is. And you have to look at that because he is much different than Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a guy who grew up in New York real estate, learning at his father's knee, the New York real estate game, and then as a young man, had these buildings with his name in gold on the side of them. JD Vance is a guy who came up from poverty, joined the Marines, went to Yale Law School, wrote a best selling book about all of those experiences. Their life experiences could not be more different. But they're coming together and saying, we now share the same worldview. And, oh, by the way, we believe this is the worldview now of the entire Republican Party.

Brad Milke
Well, and we had, like, the split screen of Trump and Vance throughout a lot of this. And while Democrats would say, like, these guys are carbon copies of each other, Vance is a yemenite, a danger to democracy. They couldn't have seemed stylistically more different. Yet Vance, with, like, this open mouth, happy to be there, smile throughout a lot of, at least the first half of it. And yet we also know that JD Vance has said, like, I wouldn't stab Trump in the back like Mike Pence did. Right? He has basically said that the table's been turned. He would have essentially thrown out election results from 2020. So that, you'd imagine, is a big difference. Trump looking for someone who's completely loyal to him through and through.

We're going to see Trump give his speech tonight, right? Do we know what's in it or what we should expect?

Jay O'Brien
That is kind of the open question. So we know our Jonathan Karl, for instance, has reported that Trump told him that he rewrote the entire speech or was in the process of rewriting the entire speech after what happened on Saturday.

He said, look, he doesn't want to dwell on it too, too much. And I'm paraphrasing what he said to John here, but he does believe it may have changed him, and certainly it has opened him up to this idea, unity. But the question that's kind of emerged over the last few days of this convention is, what does he mean when he talks about unity? What does that unity look like? Is it unity within the Republican Party? We've already seen Nikki Haley throw her support behind him. Tell moderate Republicans, who might not like Donald Trump to get behind him as well. Is he talking about unity with Democrats? What does that look like? And we really don't know what that speech is going to say. In that vein, I can tell you if JD Vance's speech was instructive in any way, he laid out a lot of policy disagreements with President Biden, from.

JD Vance
Iraq to Afghanistan, from the financial crisis to the great Recession, from open borders to stagnating wages. The people who govern this country have failed and failed again.

Jay O'Brien
So he doesn't shy away. JD Vance does. Being the pit bull, that's the role vice presidential picks usually play from attacking the incumbent president.

But he doesn't necessarily get into personality attacks. Donald Trump at his rallies prior to Saturday would always get into some personality attacks or, you know, brush right up against them. What does Donald Trump do on that stage, though, Thursday night? Nobody has any idea. And is he a different Donald Trump? That's a question, frankly, we just won't know till he steps out on that stage.

Brad Milke
Wow. Hey, and last question, Jake. Cause I'm just curious. Cause you've been spending all week on the floor, right? Like, we got lots of people in Milwaukee, but you're one of our reporters who's actually roving the convention floor talking to these hundreds and hundreds of delegates. What are you picking up from them? What's sticking out to you?

Jay O'Brien
Well, firstly, Saturday, as it did for the entire country, had a massive impact on them.

Brad Milke
I think Donald Trump is coming out up this convention so strong, I don't think anybody could really touch him in the Democrat stable.

Jay O'Brien
They are attending a lot of these delegates tell me a convention that is just far different than the one that they expected to attend. The tone is different at times. And, yeah, it's your average convention in some instances where it's yay, rah, rah, look at the ticket, look at the party. Let's all get in the same boat. But there are these moments of seriousness when you talk about that political violence on Saturday.

Another thing that sets this convention apart is this kind of surreal moment with Peter Navarro.

Peter Navarro. You'll remember, is a former Trump adviser who was convicted on contempt of Congress charges for defying a subpoena from the January 6 committee. And Peter Navarro went to federal prison for that. And he got out of federal prison yesterday in Miami, and he got on a plane and delivered an address at the RNC later that day. I went to prison so you won't have to. And by the way, Brad, for someone who had just gotten out of prison for defying a congressional subpoena, he was met with raucous applause. There was a standing ovation. And the reason I bring that up is because that's really the first instance so far that we've seen this idea of January 6 or the 2020 election really play any kind of role in this convention. No one is really talking about them from the stage. Barely even in the crowd. I saw one guy with a free the January 6 defendant shirt. That was about it. These are things that Donald Trump used to bring up all the time on the campaign trail, pretty much without fail, saying, you know, that he won the 2020 election, which is obviously false. So the question now facing Donald Trump when he takes that stage is, does he repeat that stuff? Or as we know from our reporting, does he stick with this guidance from his advisors and stick to the issues that they say matter more to Americans?

Brad Milke
Yeah, much more disciplined Trump recently and much more, you'd argue, perhaps more disciplined convention delegates as well. All right, Jay O'Brien, great reporting all week from the floor. Thank you so much.

Jay O'Brien
Thank you, my friend.

Brad Milke
Now, throughout this week, we've seen a very visible reminder of Trump's brush with death. A big piece of gauze taped to the ear that was hit by a would be assassin's bullet. Well, throughout this republican convention, we've also seen a steady flow of information from Pennsylvania, from the site of that shooting, including yesterday, the revelation that the US Secret Service had eyes on the shooter longer than anyone might have realized. Let's bring in chief investigative reporter Josh Margolan. What have we learned here, Brad?

Josh Margolan
We keep learning a ton of information on the actual events of what happened Saturday with this attempted assassination. First, let's understand, amid all this information, we don't know what the motivation of the gunman was. Law enforcement has gotten into his phone, they've gotten into his computer, and they are actively searching to see if he had secondary devices, burner phones, because they, they wonder whether or not he was using those devices because they found so little useful information on his devices.

Brad Milke
He's got a gun.

Josh Margolan
In addition, Brad, what we have learned is a much clearer picture of the events of that afternoon.

There was the security perimeter, and that was the area that people had to go through metal detectors in order to get into. That was the area closest to Trump, and that was secret Service outside the magnetometers where people didn't have to be screened. Where this shooter actually was on this rooftop, that was handled by local and county police.

So law enforcement has learned that crooks, the shooter, he got to the site about 03:00 p.m. he was there for a while. He was acting suspiciously near the metal detectors in the open area between the parking lot and the metal detectors, where people would start going into the event. And then law enforcement spotted him. A couple of calls went out over the radio at various points in the hour before the actual shooting, where law enforcement had eyes on him. They lost sight of him.

JD Vance
Two of our officer officers then, actually, one boosted the other officer up towards the roof so that he could grab hold of it and pull his head up to actually look at the roof.

Josh Margolan
And then a cop tries to get up to the roof and the cop, you know, falls down, unable to get to him directly.

JD Vance
Both of those officers involved in that attempt, both radioed, indicating that, yep, there's somebody on the roof, and yes, he is armed.

Josh Margolan
But we're learning that in that building, which happened to have been a staging area for law enforcement, that officers inside had spotted him through a window and they thought he looked suspicious. They took a picture of him.

And on top of all of this, once crooks, the shooter is on the roof. It appears that the secret Service teams who were protecting Trump on the opposite side of the field, about 400ft away, that they actually saw crooks on the roof about 20 minutes before the shots were fired.

Brad Milke
Wait, they saw him for 20 minutes on the roof? I don't even understand how he got on the roof in the first place. You think there were people, like, guarding that, right?

Josh Margolan
Well, that's a very interesting point that we confirmed yesterday, Brett. Part of the security measures that had been planned for that building was that they were going to station a local police vehicle outside that building. Makes sense, right? We've seen it a million times, but now it's been confirmed by sources who are familiar with the investigation and know what went on. That because the local police didn't have an additional police vehicle to spare, they ended up sending word to the secret service at the last minute that they were not going to have a police car manned by an officer at that spot. Now, that proves to be unbelievably fateful. But you wouldn't have known Saturday morning that it was a problem necessarily, but it was something that was planned for and it was something that was not done.

Brad Milke
But this is the, I guess this is the concern, Josh. Hearing that, it sounds like the US Secret Service is kind of like, hey, we have people inside of local law enforcement. You got people outside. Here's what we need. Local law enforcement's like, we actually can't provide that. And so what? The US Secret Service just throws up its hands like, was this a planning, just disaster from the secret Service?

Josh Margolan
There's no other conclusion or question that you can come to because that is exactly it. Even if it were 3 hours before or 2 hours before, they could have gotten on the phone conceivably to say to the Pennsylvania state police, hey, we need an extra vehicle. We need some extra people. Call the county. Call the neighboring county. Send in an additional secret Service agent from, say, the Pittsburgh office or something. Ask the FBI.

Brad Milke
It was unacceptable, and it's something that shouldn't happen again.

Josh Margolan
The Secret Service director, Kim Cheadle, who is taking on a lot of criticism in connection with what happened, she's been summoned to Capitol Hill.

Brad Milke
The buck stops with me.

Josh Margolan
I am the director of the secret.

Brad Milke
Service, and I need to make sure that we are performing a review and that we are giving resources to our personnel as necessary.

Josh Margolan
We know that the homeland security secretary has announced a blue ribbon review of what happened.

Jay O'Brien
We had enhanced security for the former president beginning at least in June.

Josh Margolan
There's obviously the FBI investigation because we have an attempted assassination of a president. We have the Pennsylvania State Police investigation because we have a homicide and two serious injuries and gunshot wounds. And a lot of people are seeing what happened. They're seeing the reporting, they're seeing the facts, and they're already calling for a change of leadership at the secret service, saying something must be done.

Brad Milke
Well, and so for learning all that about the US Secret Service's response, I mean, have we learned any more about just the shooter's own actions and, like, how he arranged this trip to the fairground, how he planned for. I mean, do we know anything about that?

Josh Margolan
Law enforcement has been frantically trying to piece together the movements of the gunmen in the minutes, hours, days leading up to this.

They know that he bought a ladder. They. They believe the ladder was likely part of some sort of a plan connected with the. The attempted assassination, but they have not yet found the ladder. We know that he worked at a local nursing home, that he told his employer he was not going to be in on Saturday, but he was going to be in on Sunday. We know that he, prior to leaving home, he told his father that he was going to go out and go shooting. He belonged to a local little shooting club, and so his father thought nothing of it and gave him the gun, the AR style weapon that he used. He has a couple of improvised explosive devices, homemade types of devices. It's not clear whether they would have worked or not, but he has them with him and he has a detonator, a transmitter with him. But none of this seems to have been used. He doesn't seem to have tried to trigger the, the explosives.

It really is a bit of a mystery. The local sheriff tells us that he thinks that the officer who tried to disrupt what was going on on the roof by trying to climb up had sort of, you know, interrupted the whole plan of whatever crooks had in mind up there. But we'll never know.

Brad Milke
Right? And I know that you've been reporting out how the gunman actually had looked up images of both presidential candidates, that he had been looking up the locations of both this rally and the Democratic National Convention. So, like you said, still very little evidence about true motivations here other than wanting to cause destruction. Our chief investigative reporter, Josh Mar Golan. Thank you, Brad.

Josh Margolan
Thanks.

Brad Milke
Okay, one more quick break when we come back. For once, I would just love to argue about stuff that's not the future of the country. Well, that's what tv shows are for. One last thing is next.

Jen Tran
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Brad Milke
And one last thing, all of us tv bingers got to have our opinions affirmed or rejected yesterday when the 2024 Emmy nominations were revealed.

Jay O'Brien
Here are the nominees for outstanding drama series.

Brad Milke
The big winner of the day was Shogun, a historical drama about 17th century Japan.

Jason Nathanson
Once Shogun came out, the Emmy talk started.

Brad Milke
This is ABC's entertainment correspondent and tv and movie critic Jason Nathanson, who said, this is a sweeping epic you really do want to see rewarded.

Jason Nathanson
Critics loved it, audiences loved it. And it just had that feel of, this is prestige television.

Brad Milke
It came from the studios of FX, which is owned by ABC's parent company, Disney. And so did the other big winner of the day, the Bear. What do you want an omelet. But while audiences love a quick bite sized show about a kitchen crew that evolves into Michelin star seekers, this show has actually prompted a raging debate among critics.

Jason Nathanson
The Bear for comedy series had 23 nominations, which is a record for comedy series. You had 30 Rock in 2009 at 22, which is pretty amazing for a show that is not a comedy.

Brad Milke
That's right. Jason says the runaway favorite for best comedy of the year, in his eyes, isn't a comedy at all. Wait, why isn't the bear a comedy?

Jason Nathanson
Because it's not funny, he says.

Brad Milke
There are funny moments in the bear, especially as the lead characters capture the essence of a pressure cooker kitchen.

JD Vance
And you're screaming, am I?

Jay O'Brien
Yeah.

Brad Milke
Yeah, you are.

JD Vance
Oh, yeah.

Brad Milke
But just because there are giggles doesn't mean something is necessarily a comedy.

Jason Nathanson
The chief goal of the bear is to make you anxious and tense. Those are not comedy staples.

Brad Milke
To which I said, what are you talking about? Like lots of comedy is about anxiety. Look at Larry David's curb your enthusiasm. Well, Jason says he recently spoke to Curb's creator, who agrees with him.

Jason Nathanson
He says also, the show is not a comedy because its goal was not to make you laugh. Curb your enthusiasm's goal is to make you laugh. That's not the case in the bear.

Brad Milke
And what's interesting about this, Jason says, is for years now, award shows haven't quite been sure about what to do with shows like this. Succession, for example, is one of the most successful dramas in recent years, but its most famous scenes were laugh out loud funny. Its producers included Will Ferrell, Atlanta the critically lauded show on FX was like a comedy artistic fever Dream. It doesn't really fit in any box. At the end of the day, Jason says, academies will often defer to whatever the show wants to call itself. And if you're a 30 minutes program, you got a much better chance of being considered a comedy.

Jason Nathanson
When it comes to awards and things like that. You go where you think you can win, right?

Brad Milke
So I asked him, of all the nominated shows out there, which is actually.

Jason Nathanson
His favorite when it comes to comedy series hacks. And this, particularly this season of hacks, was absolutely fantastic, he says.

Brad Milke
If you want a show that's clear about its style, you know, a comedy about comedians has at least thought it through all the way to the punchline.

He also gave shoutouts, by the way, to what we do in the shadows, which is one of my favorite. And Colin from accounts, which I never heard of, he's like, yeah, no one's ever heard of it. It's the best thing you can watch right now. So I should be checking those out. And you should be checking out, of course, the republican national Convention, night four. Donald Trump speaking tonight. ABC will have it all. Of course. It's on the network at 10:00 p.m. eastern. I'm Brad Milke. See you tomorrow.

Yes. Yes.

Jen Tran
Hey, it's me, Jen Tran, the new bachelorette. Watch me on a groundbreaking season like you've never seen. Monday nights at eight on ABC.

JD Vance
And don't miss our weekly bachelor podcast, playing the field, hosted by me, Ryan Field. As we break down each episode.