Trump's New Debate Demands

This episode focuses on former President Donald Trump's changing stance on the terms and conditions of the upcoming presidential debates, notably after a shift in his opponents due to Vice President Kamala Harris replacing President Joe Biden.

1. Donald Trump has shifted his stance on debate conditions, now favoring a Fox News platform over the previously agreed ABC News debate.
2. Vice President Kamala Harris, stepping in for Joe Biden, has not accepted the Fox News debate and insists on the original ABC News schedule.
3. The episode underscores the unpredictability of political campaigns and the strategic recalibrations that follow major candidate changes.
4. The broader political climate, including UK riots and Pentagon decisions, reflects a globally tumultuous period influencing U.S. politics.
5. Harris's rapid rise as a unifying figure for the Democrats highlights the shifting dynamics within the party.

1: Opening Remarks

Brad Milke introduces the episode's theme, noting Trump's new demands for debate conditions and the political implications. Brad Milke: "Former President Donald Trump changes the terms on which he'll debate."

2: Changing Debates

Discussion on Trump's acceptance of a Fox News debate and the implications for the Harris campaign. Selena Wang: "Trump has now thrown the whole debate schedule up in the air."

3: Campaign Strategies

Analysis of the shifting strategies in Trump and Harris's campaigns as they adapt to new political challenges. Brad Milke: "What you're seeing from the Trump campaign is that they're still struggling to figure out how to go after Harris."

4: Political Context

Exploration of broader political issues like UK riots and Pentagon decisions affecting the electoral atmosphere. Louis Martinez: "This was a surprising turn of events."

1. Stay informed on political developments to understand their broader implications.
2. Critically evaluate media and campaign communications to identify shifts in political strategies.
3. Participate in discussions and forums to engage with ongoing political debates.
4. Encourage transparent and fair media coverage by supporting outlets that provide balanced reporting.
5. Vote in elections to have a direct impact on political outcomes.

With Vice President Harris pulling even in most national polls, former president Donald Trump says he’ll only debate on Fox. Anti-immigrant riots break out in several U.K. cities. And Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin rejects a plea deal for the masterminds of the 9/11 terror attacks.

People

Donald Trump, Kamala Harris, Brad Milke, Selena Wang, Louis Martinez

Companies

ABC News, Fox News

Books

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Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

None

Unknown
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Brad Milke
It's Monday, August 5. Anytime, any place. Well, that's debatable. We start here, former President Donald Trump changes the terms on which he'll debate.

Selena Wang
She said, quote, it's interesting how any time, any place becomes one specific time, one specific safe space.

Brad Milke
We'll tee you up for a big week on the trail. Cities across the UK have erupted into violence.

How a horrific stabbing mushroomed into a different type of national tragedy. And they've been sitting in Gitmo for nearly 20 years without a trial. And it doesn't look like that'll change.

Louis Martinez
And essentially, we're now back to where we started.

Brad Milke
Why the defense secretary just threw out plea deals for the architects of 911.

From ABC News, this is start here. I'm Brad Milke.

It's weird to live in a moment that you know will be taught in textbooks years later. And yet that's exactly what's happened this summer. Up until June, I'd always been taught the most consequential presidential debate in modern history was John F. Kennedy versus Richard Nixon. The tv performance some argue doomed Nixon's campaign, but at least he finished out the race.

Unknown
We created 15,000 new jobs. We brought out position where we have 800,000 new manufacturing jobs.

Brad Milke
This year's first debate on CNN did what no other televised debate has ever done. It went so badly, the presumptive nominee was forced to abandon his reelection campaign.

Unknown
Dealing with everything we have to do.

Brad Milke
With, look, this will go down as the biggest one in our nation's history. And remember, this was something of Biden's own making. It was his team that proposed two debates, one on CNN in June, the other on ABC in September. It was Biden's team that suggested they take place in quiet studios with only one microphone on at a time, leaving candidates standing there under the unblinking eye of the camera if they faltered. Trump accepted these terms and said, sure, anytime, any place. He said he wanted more debates, not less. Well, when Vice President Kamala Harris took over, that was still Trump's message. But this weekend, with the importance of debates never on Fuller display, that calculus appeared to shift. Let's start the day in Washington where we find ABC senior White House correspondent Selena Wang. Selena, was I naive to think that since Donald Trump had already agreed to a debate, that he would just debate a different candidate on the same day?

Selena Wang
Yeah, look, Trump has now thrown the whole debate schedule up in the air. He said this weekend that he accepted an invitation for a Fox News debate on September 4. But remember, back in May, he already agreed to a debate hosted by ABC News on September 10. But of course, back in May, it was President Biden who he'd be up against. Now it's Vice President Harris. Vice President Harris, for her part, has not accepted that Fox News debate. Her campaign claims that Trump is running scared and trying to back out of the ABC News debate on social media. Harris posted this. She said, quote, it's interesting how any time, any place becomes one specific time, one specific safe space, I'll be there on September 10 like he agreed to. I hope to see him there.

Brad Milke
Right. And ABC still has invitations out to both of these candidates for that original September day. But I guess we'll just see what happens.

What is the state of the race right now more broadly, when you zoom out? Because I feel like the Harris campaign is so new that there is this whole new landscape every week. What are you picking up on?

Selena Wang
I find it so hard to believe that it was only about two weeks ago when I was in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, where Biden was having Covid, and that's when he made his announcement that he was dropping out. It feels like an eternity, but it's only been a couple weeks. But in that time span, she's raised record amounts of money. She's clinched enough votes to become the democratic nominee.

Brad Milke
I am honored to be the president.

Unknown
Presumptive democratic nominee for president of the.

Selena Wang
United States, making history. The first black woman, first asian American to be at the top of a major party ticket. And she's really unified the entire party behind her.

Unknown
And when we fight, everyone will say in unison, we win.

Selena Wang
We're seeing in the polling that the race is narrowing. The gaps are narrowing between Harris and Trump. And in many of the polls, it shows a virtual tie.

Brad Milke
I'm thrilled to be back in the great state of Georgia. I love Georgia.

Selena Wang
I was actually with Donald Trump. I was covering him on the trail in battleground Georgia on Saturday night. He was actually at the exact same venue in Atlanta that Vice President Harris had rallied at just days before. They're both trying to court these voters in these critical battleground states. And what you're seeing from the Trump campaign is that they're still struggling to figure out how to go after Harris.

Brad Milke
Crazy Kamala ultra left.

Selena Wang
You know that Donald Trump on Saturday night was clearly testing out new attack lines, new insults, trying to see what was going to stick.

Louis Martinez
We just went through four years.

Brad Milke
Let's not go through another four years.

Selena Wang
He had built his entire strategy around going after President Biden. But Harris, of course, is a very different candidate. And I can tell you, I spoke to many Trump supporters who were at the rally on Saturday night and many of them told me that they think Donald Trump should tone down the rhetoric and attacks and just stick to the.

Brad Milke
Issues, stick with the task at hand and better school, secure border.

Unknown
Those are the things he should be sticking to.

Brad Milke
That's interesting to hear, what Trump's most ardent voters are thinking about, too. It seems like we're almost guaranteed a new inflection point soon, right? Because I'm thinking about the VP pick that it seems like Harris almost has to make. What are you hearing about as far as timing and process in all this?

Selena Wang
She is on the verge of choosing her running mate. And this past weekend was absolutely critical. So she's got to make this decision by Tuesday night because that's when she kicks off a whole blitz across battleground states, seven states in just five days with her new running mate. And right now, she's really in the final stages of choosing. So sources tell me that on Sunday, Harris met with top contenders for this vp pick at her residence in DC. And that includes popular first term Pennsylvania governor Josh Shapiro, who's a former prosecutor, also Arizona senator, and retired astronaut Mark Kelly, the husband of Gabby Giffords and Minnesota governor Tim Walls, a retired schoolteacher and former congressman.

And Harris, she has a lot of thinking to do in a very short span of time. She is, of course, looking for somebody she can trust, but crucially, someone who's going to help her win.

Brad Milke
Yeah. And you think about these vetting processes that take months and months and months where you have like a, you know, red ball teen that goes, tries to find all the dirt on these. They don't have any time to do any of that. So you imagine this might end up being kind of a gut decision. All right, Selena Wang there in DC. Thank you.

Selena Wang
Thank you.

Brad Milke
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Last week you might have heard about a tragic stabbing spree in the UK that left three little girls dead. I've heard wailing and screaming pretty much all afternoon.

Unknown
We're in a seaside town. Children should be able to enjoy their summer holidays.

Brad Milke
Everything about this was terrible. It was gut wrenching. Well, that sadness has now turned to anger. The anger has sparked misinformation. And this weekend, all that metastasized into a series of riots across England. Let's go to ABC's foreign correspondent Patrick Reville, who's based in London. Patrick, first off, can you just explain how this all began?

Unknown
Hi, Brad. This appalling stabbing attack took place in northern England, close to Liverpool, in a place called Southport. A young man went into a kids dance class and began stabbing very young children. Just a horrific scene.

Unknown
It is understood that the children were attending a Taylor swift event at a dance school when the offender, armed with a knife, walked into the premises and started to attack.

Unknown
He killed at least three kids and badly wounded eight others, as well as two adults.

Unknown
At this moment in time, the investigation is not being treated as terrorist related.

Unknown
Almost immediately following this attack, disinformation started being spread that the attacker was a muslim illegal immigrant. And so the attacker in reality is a 17 year old boy.

Unknown
A 17 year old male from banks in Lancashire, who is originally from Cardiff, has been arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder.

Unknown
And for the first few days, we didn't know his identity beyond that because he's a minor and therefore they don't identify him publicly. But partway through the week, he was identified, in part because of the intense disinformation that was being circulated and in part because he's about to turn 18. He was born in Cardiff, in Wales. He was raised in Britain. His parents are immigrants from Rwanda. But before all of that came out already this disinformation was being circulated very, very widely and very quickly by far right groups.

We saw riots almost immediately in Southport, groups of men began attacking first a mosque. They then set fire to a local community support office. Very ugly violence targeted directly at the muslim community up there.

They were also spreading even this message that he had come across on the so called small boats. It's basically where large numbers of people, thousands of people, have been trying to reach Britain on small boats from France. And this has been used, particularly by those who are unhappy with the number of people coming to the country.

Brad Milke
When it seemed to go from this one community to all of a sudden we're seeing violence in cities across the UK, or across England at least. What is going on?

Unknown
Basically, the violence has just spread in multiple cities across the north. Pretty much all the major cities have seen scenes of chaos, where you see these groups of people, many of them wearing England football shirts, some carrying the white and red St George's Cross flag, the England flag, which has become associated very much with far right nationalism in Britain. People smashing things up, we see them clashing with police.

Mobs have attacked cars with people of color in them. We've seen mosques attacked.

And then on Sunday night, a mob of hundreds of people attacked a hotel in the northern city of Rotherham that was housing some asylum seekers.

Police tried to prevent them getting access to the hotel, but these people managed to break through in certain places. They smashed windows and then eventually tried to set a fire inside the hotel. I cannot remember really a scene like this.

One thing that's very important. I think in most of these cities, we've seen much larger counter protests. We've seen hundreds of people come out to basically come and do anti fascist, anti racist protests.

Often the far right protesters are outnumbered by the, the anti fascist ones who come and the anti racist ones who come to try and counter them.

Brad Milke
Patrick, I mean, what was it about this killing or maybe this moment in british culture that made these protests so explosive? And I guess, does that mean that we're not done seeing scenes like this later this week?

Unknown
I think you're absolutely right that we don't yet know when this will end. Why this is happening now is a very good question that I think the whole country is trying to understand.

Brad Milke
If you're taking part in this violence, you will regret it and you'll be brought to justice as quickly as possible.

Unknown
Immigration has been a very divisive and painful issue in Britain for a long time. You know, it played a very huge role in Brexit. And even in the last election, we've seen the conservative party move a great way to the right on immigration. What's crucial to understand is that it's not simply organic.

Brad Milke
This is not protest. It is organized, violent thuggery.

Unknown
This is being directed and fueled and organized to a great degree by well known far right figures online who are telling people where to hold protests and saying openly that, you know, violence should accompany these protests that cities need to blow up is one of the phrases I've seen. And so there's this very toxic world that's been created of conspiracy theories by well known far right figures who've been lying in wait, in a sense, waiting for a moment like this stabbing, and then quickly just using misinformation to fit it into their agenda that pre exists, and then trying to stoke tension, really.

Brad Milke
Like you said, sort of not just bizarre, but heartbreaking scenes as so much of the country tries to figure out. Wow. Where did all this violence come from? Patrick Rievl in London. Thank you so much.

Unknown
Thanks, Brian.

Brad Milke
The Defense Department is very much in focus right now as it tries to anticipate what Iran is about to do in the Middle east. Remember last week when a Hamas leader was assassinated in Tehran? When a Hezbollah leader was assassinated in Beirut, just hours apart from each other? Israel was suspected of being behind each of them, even though they only admitted responsibility for the latter. However, as the Pentagon was sending an aircraft carrier strike group and a fighter jet squadron to the region, bracing for that possible retaliation, they were also making a different controversial decision here at home. They were striking down one of the most significant plea deals we have ever seen regarding the alleged architects of 911. ABC's Louis Martinez covers the Pentagon. Louie, can we just back up and explain what this plea agreement was?

Louis Martinez
Well Brad, this was all a surprising turn of events. Initially this was a plea deal worked out by the military prosecutors at Guantanamo. They've been working this case with 911 mastermind College Sheikh Mohammed for years and they've been working out a plea deal actually for the last two years. But when it actually did come down, it really surprised everybody because I don't think anybody expected that something was going to be worked out. But what really did happen was that in return for admitting their guilt in the murder of nearly 3000 people at the World Trade center, at the Pentagon, and aboard flight 93, they would remove the death penalty which had always been on the table, and instead they would serve life in prison in Guantanamo. So the first word of this deal came out in a letter that was sent by the military prosecutors to the families of the victims of 911. And they admitted in the letter they acknowledged that this was going to cause some consternation and they had managed, it was going to create some mixed emotions. But they said that in the end this was the only way that they could figure out how to bring some finality to all this. It's been almost twelve years that this case has been stuck in legal limbo. And the real sticking point was the admissibility of evidence that was gathered while these defendants were being held by the CAA in those black sites. And it was all gathered during with torture, as has now been acknowledged. And so therefore, could you really get that into a courtroom?

And prosecutors felt they were going to have a really tough time and so therefore that's why they worked out this deal.

Brad Milke
Yeah. Can we talk more about the reaction from the families? Because is it about the death penalty? Like we do want these people to get the death penalty or is it other stuff? Because it also sounds like there are people saying actually what we really want is like an open trial where they admit to all these things or whatever. What is it, Brad?

Louis Martinez
When this really went down, the families, a group of them at least, were very outraged and expressed that very publicly.

Unknown
Well, over the past 23 years we've been anticipating a trial and we've been anticipating that they would face the consequences of their actions. And then it was suddenly taken away from us on Wednesday.

Louis Martinez
And they talked about how really they had been surprised that the death penalty had been taken off the table. They'd wanted that kind of justice for these alleged individuals, these alleged 911 plotters. And now they saw that the military tribunal had really taken away that opportunity for them to see justice in their eyes.

Unknown
That's why we want the trial to go forward, so that they also have to face the consequences, not just be allowed to be put in a us prison somewhere or who knows?

Louis Martinez
But there was another group of individuals, also 911 families, and they were more accepting. They were more understanding of exactly what was going on in terms of the legal process, not happy about it, but at least they were a little bit more understanding. So we had this public outrage that was coming out. All of a sudden, I think there was heightened awareness of this whole process. And then all of a sudden, on Friday night, there was a surprise announcement from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin that he was taking control of the whole military tribunal process and that he was overruling that determination to approve the plea agreement and that he said very publicly, you know, the responsibility lies with me. So that's where the situation has ended up now. It's this whole giant whiplash back and forth on this plea agreement. And essentially, we're now back to where we started just 24 months ago when this whole process was initiated.

Brad Milke
Wait, why would that be, Louie? Because initially I already thought it was weird that this would be in the purview of the military and not like the DOJ. But then you think to yourself, oh, wait, this is all military courts. That's why it goes up the chain to the Pentagon and to the White House. But either way, then why would the defense secretary overrule his own people?

Louis Martinez
Well, Brad, I think what's at play here are Secretary Lloyd Austin's personal opinions. I think he wants to see justice carried out. And I think he probably does favor the death penalty for these individuals, or at least not removing it until the very, very end, when that whole process has been, been exhausted, I think what we saw was that potentially he did not agree with this ruling. And again, that he wanted to see this whole play, this whole system play out in the courtroom, and he wanted to see the sentencing also play out in the courtroom, and not as a deal that's been worked out between lawyers and prosecutors down in Guantanamo.

And we should remember that this was a military tribunal. This has been operating completely independent of any political action. So even the White House was caught unawares when this agreement was made public last week. But I think one of the things that we really had remember is the word military. These are military prosecutors. And so when they're in the military, they fall under the chain of command. And even though they were independent, even though they had their own, what's called a convening authority who ultimately approved this deal, they have to answer to the commander.

And for them, that is the defense secretary. Now, of course, the ultimate commander in chief is the president of the United States. But when you're talking about the Department of Defense, there's only one boss, that's the secretary of defense, and that's what happened here.

Ultimately, I think it was within the prerogative of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin to actually do this. And he seized upon it. And very, very quickly, when you look at that memo that was issued where he said that he was taking over, it was succinct, to the point, and just said, look, the responsibility lies with me. And he felt that as, since he was responsible, he was going to overturn this plea agreement and bring it back to the courts.

Brad Milke
And when you think like these guys, these five men, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, a lot of them were detained within a few years of 911. Barack Obama said, we're going to get these people, like on the us mainland, in american prisons. That didn't happen. Now, even this plea agreement didn't say that they would come out of Guantanamo. It said they'll just remain in Guantanamo for the rest of their lives. Now, that appears still very likely. In addition to the idea that they won't even get a trial before they die, you wonder if that is just how this is going to play out now. Louis Martinez, covering the Pentagon. Thank you.

Louis Martinez
Thanks, Brad.

Brad Milke
Okay, one more quick break. When we come back, it's the scandal no one saw coming. Heck, I still barely believe it. One last thing is next.

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And one last thing.

I always kind of love the random stories that come to define political campaigns. Like Mitt Romney had a dog ride in a crate on the family car's roof. It was used to make him look cruel and aloof. Howard Dean screamed too loud at a rally. That's how a lot of people are gonna remember him forever. So how do we think this one is going to go down?

Louis Martinez
Breaking news in Central park where a.

Brad Milke
Dead bear cub has been discovered. So ten years ago in 2014, there was this bizarre story gripping New York City? A bear cub had been found dead in Central park. And if you're thinking, oh, wow, I didn't know bears live in Central park. Well, that's because they don't.

Police now want to know how the bear died and how it got into the park. Strangely, this poor little guy was found with bicycle on top of it. Well, now, ten years later, someone is coming forward to say, that was me. I did this. That person is Robert F. Kennedy Junior. Yeah. The current presidential candidate. The son of RFK. That RF Kennedy junior says he's the guy who dumped the bear. I was taking a group of people falconing up in ocean, New York, up knives and valley. In this video he posted on X, formally Twitter, Kennedy's telling some friends that ten years ago he was going falconing about an hour outside of Manhattan. This is where you take trained falcons or hawks and set them off to hunt for food. Yes, already very relatable. Before he gets there, he says he sees another car that's hit a small bear on the highway. He offers to take the carcass home so he can eat it. And it was very good condition and I was gonna put the meat in my refrigerator. Remember, RFK junior has a vocal condition that can make it tough to make out sometimes. But he's saying the bear's in good condition and that he can put it in his fridge. This is legal in the state of New York as long as you get it tagged by wildlife officials. So apparently he takes it back to New York in his car, only to realize he's running late to a dinner at a steakhouse. So he decides to dump the bear in Central park. He says he happened to have an old bicycle he was planning to trash, so he put the bear under the bike as if it got hit by a cyclist.

The next day, the whole world found out right there in the heart of Manhattan.

Louis Martinez
Central park police investigating a body found early Monday morning.

Brad Milke
And the victim, unusual even for New York City.

And while police said at the time they were investigating, they never did find who disposed of this bear. But in this video, Kennedy is saying he's recently been contacted by fact checkers at the New Yorker magazine who had been reporting on this. It's, quote, a bad story, he says, and it's clear he's trying to get ahead of it.

The Kennedy campaign, they say they're not worried about any legal ramifications here. When you look at polling, though, RFK Junior is not considered a top tier candidate. But he's certainly playing a significant role. FiveThirtyEight's polling average has him at almost 6% of the vote. So with that, you knew he would get continued scrutiny, but you might not have expected something so wild.

This truly feels like a story generated by mad libs RFK junior talking about a dead bear cub in Central park. And by the way, I'm not making this up. In the video, he's telling the story to Roseanne Barr.

I have nothing to add to this. Like, how can you top this? I'm Brad Milke. See you tomorrow.

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