Immune, immune, immune.

This episode explores the recent Supreme Court decision granting US presidents extensive immunity, even for actions potentially constituting crimes.

1. The Supreme Court ruled to grant presidents extensive immunity, complicating future prosecutions.
2. Critics argue the decision could lead to an unchecked presidency, likening it to a potential dictatorship.
3. Historical context, including Richard Nixon’s Watergate scandal and Donald Trump’s legal battles, provides a backdrop to the discussion.
4. Legal experts express concerns about the future implications of this ruling on presidential accountability.
5. The episode also covers other significant events like Hurricane Beryl and a Boeing plea deal.

1. Introduction to the Supreme Court's Decision

The episode opens with a discussion on a Supreme Court ruling granting broad immunity to US presidents, sparking fears of unchecked presidential power. Key quotes include:

• Terry Moran: "You have to give a president full and total immunity."
• Reverse Auctioneer: "Critics say the justices just handed future presidents the keys to a dictatorship."

2. Historical and Legal Context

This chapter examines the legal and historical context behind presidential immunity, referencing past presidents and their legal challenges. Key quotes include:

• Richard Nixon: "When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
• Terry Moran: "It's extremely generous to presidential power, extremely protective."

3. Implications and Expert Analysis

Experts discuss the long-term implications of the decision, predicting difficulties in holding presidents accountable for illegal acts while in office. Key quotes include:

• Terry Moran: "For prosecutors who are confronted with a president, any president who may have committed crimes, it's real hard now."

4. Broader News Coverage

The episode also touches on other major news items, such as Hurricane Beryl's impact and Boeing's plea deal with implications for corporate accountability in the aviation industry.

1. Stay informed about changes in legal standards affecting governance.
2. Understand the implications of judicial decisions on political accountability.
3. Engage in civic discussions to express opinions on such pivotal rulings.
4. Monitor related news to see how these decisions affect future presidential actions.
5. Advocate for transparency and checks on power at all government levels.

In an unprecedented shift of power, the Supreme Court declares “official” presidential acts are immune from criminal prosecution. Hurricane Beryl intensifies in the Caribbean, earlier than any storm of its size in recorded history. And the Justice Department offers a plea deal to Boeing.

People

Donald Trump, Richard Nixon, Terry Moran

Content Warnings:

None

Ryan Reynolds
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Reverse Auctioneer
It's Tuesday, July 2. No man is above the law. Until now. We start here.

The Supreme Court grants us presidents absolute immunity with some conditions.

Terry Moran
Organizes a military coup to hold on to power. Immune takes a bribe in exchange for pardon. Immune why?

Reverse Auctioneer
Critics say the justices just handed future presidents the keys to a dictatorship. Hurricane season is already underway.

Hurricane Barrel is churning up concerns along with the Caribbean, and a guilty plea might not be enough.

Plane Crash Victim's Family Member
We need to hold Boeing accountable.

Reverse Auctioneer
Why? A historic plea deal is already being blasted by plane crash victims families.

From ABC News, this is start here. I'm Brad Milke.

Richard Nixon
Wouldn't have been better here, though, to have done what you were going to do legally.

Reverse Auctioneer
Almost 50 years ago, Richard Nixon said something extraordinary.

Richard Nixon
The proposition you've just stated in theory is perfect. In practice, it just won't work.

Reverse Auctioneer
This was part of the famous Nixon interviews conducted by host David Frost and producer John Burt, where this former president, who had resigned in disgrace over the Watergate scandal, tried to defend his actions. At one point, he's asked whether what he did was illegal. And eventually he says, well, when the.

Richard Nixon
President does it, that means that it is not illegal.

Reverse Auctioneer
When the president does it, that means it's not illegal. This was shocking to a lot of the country. People said, wait, if a general commits a war crime or if a senator takes bribes, any of them can face jail time. But somehow a president is immune. Like, what makes the office of the president completely absolved of criminal responsibility even after he leaves office? Legally speaking, that question remained unanswered for the next half century, up until yesterday.

Terry Moran
You have to give a president full and total immunity.

Reverse Auctioneer
For the last year, former President Donald Trump has said he can't be prosecuted for mishandling classified documents or for trying to overturn election results because nothing a president does, he says, can be considered a crime. Yesterday, in a six three decision, the Supreme Court seemed to agree with some key parts of Trump's argument. And with that, critics say they just offered every president, past and future, a get out of jail free card, a defining day for us government. So let's go straight to ABC senior national correspondent Terry Moran. Terry, can you walk us through this decision?

Terry Moran
You bet. I think you're absolutely right. It tracks pretty closely in legal language what Donald Trump has been saying out on the stump and in courtrooms. Presidents need immunity, he keeps saying, and it's very generous, immunity. This is a case of first impression. The court has never had to decide whether presidents could be prosecuted. And the answer they gave is that it is really, really hard. They made it much harder to do so. So what Chief Justice John Roberts, writing for the court, did is start first with those powers that the president has named in the Constitution, the veto power, the pardon power, appointments and removals of officials, commander in chief. And Roberts in the court says when it comes to that absolute immunity, presidents cannot be prosecuted on that at all. Then theres this much greater. The bulk of what the president does is official, but kind of not mentioned in the Constitution, from calling up state officials, maybe in a contested election, to making a speech outside.

All these things are things that the president uses the bully pulpit for or rallies his base. All those things are official.

But under this decision, those acts are presumed to be immune from prosecution. So the president, first, has absolute immunity with anything mentioned in the constitution, and second, is presumed to have immunity from everything else he does. Officially, prosecutors have to overcome that immunity. And that is going to be tough, in particular because the opinion also says courts can never inquire into a president's motive for doing an official action. So if the president's doing something corruptly, that's not evidence because they say, oh, well, everybody would be second guessing the president and investigating the president based on what they think he wants to do. And so for prosecutors who are confronted with the president, any president who may have committed crimes, it's real hard now.

Reverse Auctioneer
So basically, Terry, you're saying that if you were to start an order, a presidential order, with like, by the powers vested in me as president, want to do this, that basically anything that comes after that is legal, right? It's just the personal stuff you could be held criminally responsible for.

Terry Moran
Well, correct. Anything personal, basically, but that's not quite true. So the president does have to, you know, do things under law, but in ways that exercise power beyond those laws. Yeah, he probably is going to get away with that if he's got a rationale that can be tethered and tied to what he claims are the outer perimeter of his official duties. So it's extremely generous to presidential power, extremely protective. The reason is that John Roberts is afraid that presidents are going to get hounded by their partisan enemies, and he's trying to, he and the court are trying to put a stop to that.

Reverse Auctioneer
Oh, like the worst case scenario in John Roberts mind is everyone, starting now, every president is going to start getting indicted by different states and courts around the country. That's going to be like the new political playbook, is arrest the former president.

Terry Moran
That's it, exactly. He says that what is the most likely result of not having this kind of immunity is, as he says, that the executive branch cannibalizes itself with each successive president free to prosecute his predecessors.

And so that's what he's trying to stop. And he erects this huge shield, this huge barrier to hold presidents accountable for crimes they may be committing. So really, the question is, you know, what does that mean, not just for Donald Trump, but for the presidency?

Reverse Auctioneer
The dissenters in this case, the justices on the liberal side of the bench, said, they didn't just say, like, this is unfair, this is weird, this is precedent breaking. They said this is dangerous. Why?

Terry Moran
Well, they see a president virtually free of any worry that he might be breaking the law.

Really, that's the bottom line that they see.

Richard Nixon
I don't know why two of my colleagues, how they would fashion a clear statement, rule that would say, say, when the law says any person can't accept the bribe, that that permits the president to do it.

Terry Moran
And Justice Sotna Sotomayor reads the court's opinion as just liberating presidents, really, from any boundaries of the criminal law, as long as they can plausibly make a case that what they've done is official. She warns that when he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navys SEAL team six to assassinate a political rival. Immune, she writes, organizes a military coup to hold onto power. Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for pardon. Immune, immune. Immune. Immune. Shes almost, you can hear her anger about it and her shock. Chief Justice Roberts might dispute that, but right now, it is an open question as to how and for what any president could be prosecuted under this opinion, for anything that can plausibly be called an official act, like ordering the military to kill somebody.

Reverse Auctioneer
Well, and, Terry, not to get lost in all this. Like we've been discussing, this hypothetical world that Chief Justice Don Roberts is worried about, where he's saying, we don't want to get to the situation where every president can start getting arrested once they leave office. Like, we don't want that to be in the toolbox. That's hypothetical. There's only one president so far that's been charged after leaving office, and that's President Donald J. Trump. I mean, how does this affect his cases now?

Terry Moran
Well, it's going to be really difficult for special counsel Jack Smith to bring this prosecution for all of the reasons that we've talked about. Right. All kinds of acts that are named in the indictment against Trump are under this. And I think Smith would have acknowledged official acts. The court did hand Trump one total victory.

Donald Trump met with Justice Department officials trying to get them on board with his effort to overturn the 2020 election. He wanted them to start cases in Georgia and Michigan and Wisconsin. And the Justice Department officials refused. He threatened to sue them. All of that is gone from this indictment. Now, the court ruled that that that is core constitutional power, the ability to deal with federal officials and fire them if he wants to. And so that is now out of the indictment. And everything else has to jump those really high hurdles. Cant ask about the presidents motive as long as the president has a plausible official duty involved. Even perhaps the speech on January 6 that the prosecutor says was an incitement to violence.

John Roberts is going to be very challenging to prove that.

Richard Nixon
There are no historic or legal precedents to which I can turn in this matter.

Terry Moran
But, brad, this goes way beyond Trump. There is solid evidence that presidents have always believed that they were subject to prosecution. President Gerald Ford pardoned President Richard Nixon, who accepted it. So those two certainly thought that presidents could be prosecuted. President Bill Clinton, on the last day he was in office, cut a deal with the special prosecutor's office in the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and as part of that, gave up his law license because he didn't want to be prosecuted. And all of a sudden, the Supreme Court is saying, well, you didn't have to do any of that because you probably couldn't have been prosecuted. It's a sea change in how presidents will consider their own powers and the checks and balances on them.

Reverse Auctioneer
Yeah. Former President Trump calls this a big win for the constitution and democracy. He's actually already moved overnight to have his New York conviction tossed on the grounds that the jury there shouldn't even have been able to see evidence of stuff he said when he was president. Cause that he says is immune now. President Biden came back from Camp David early just to give remarks on this.

President Joe Biden
Associate, the american people dissent.

I dissent.

Reverse Auctioneer
He says all this raises the stakes of this election even higher than they were already. Terry Moran in Washington, thanks for explaining all this.

Terry Moran
You bet.

Reverse Auctioneer
Next up on start here. So if this was a figurative hurricane, well, there's a literal hurricane down in the Caribbean. Why? It's the first of its kind after the break.

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The first major hurricane of the year arrived in the Caribbean yesterday, Hurricane Beryl. You might remember, hurricanes get alphabetical names throughout the year, so there was already an Alberto. Now this is barrel, and this one is slamming islands on its way toward Jamaica and Mexico and could have implications far beyond that. So let's go to ABC's chief meteorologist, Ginger Z. Ginger, what are you seeing? Cause you had said we haven't seen many storms like this on the calendar at least.

President Joe Biden
No, and it's funny, you said first major hurricane of the season. And even though I've been covering this, I had to go. Oh, that's right. Because average, you see your first major hurricane of the season on September 1, we are not even close to the peak of hurricane season. But you look at the Caribbean right now and it certainly looks it because we've been watching barrel.

Now, Barrel's a name that you probably have heard in past because as you know, the hurricane center circulates those every six years until the name is retired. They get retired when they do enough damage or when they've killed people. So barrel's been around. I've actually covered barrels in the past, but currently Hurricane Barrel is still out in open ocean waters. Thankfully, after passing the southern windward islands just yesterday.

As we watched this thing go within 48 hours over the weekend from a tropical storm, it added on 95 mph in just 48 hours. So it did most certainly rapidly intensify.

And we know why, right. Extremely warm water temperatures that we've been seeing because we are in a post El Nino year. So we expect it to be very warm. Pair that with some human emissions and you get those things amplified. And so we do expect to have a huge season ahead. And barrel really is a way for this season to let us know, hey, here's a little signal. You're right, I'm coming for you.

Reverse Auctioneer
That seems like that's the thing, Ginger. Right. That's the reason this matters so much to people who are not on these islands, is just kind of when as much as where.

President Joe Biden
Right. And that's the thing is, you know, it's the first cat four we've ever seen in the month of June since records started and reliable records, we usually say easily in satellite era since the 1970s, but most people will go back to the early 19 hundreds. So a century or more, we have not seen a category four hurricane this strong this early. And that's what makes it so big. And very rarely are you going to see a major hurricane in June or even July. It doesn't happen often. And so we hope is not a symbol of what's to come. But unfortunately, the water temperatures are easily two to four degrees above average. And so that paired with reducing wind shear are the two variables that make this season look like it could be very big. A lot of folks that we do know, at least in New York City, have interests in those islands that were slammed so hard. Barbados. I saw some of the ships sinking and such. But it's what happens after and what this really means for the whole season ahead. So right now, barrel's in open water, but it has this west northwest movement and it's been cooking. I mean, yesterday its forward motion was around 20 whole day. That's really fast for a forward motion of a hurricane. It will slow down eventually and a couple of things are going to do that for it.

So right now you've got tropical storm warnings that are on the south coast of the Dominican Republic, in Haiti, Jamaica, in a watch. And so you should see impacts to Jamaica by Wednesday. And then it will pass south of Cuba. And eventually it looks like it's going to head right toward the Yucatan Peninsula by the start of the weekend. It's something that I would tell anybody really, from New Orleans back to Houston. Just pay close attention to, especially going into this holiday weekend. You know, things can shift a little. So just pay close attention to the forecast if you're anywhere on the west side of the Gulf coast. But right now the track has it still moving west northwest through Mexico.

Reverse Auctioneer
And this was already record breaking as a cat four. I'm just seeing as we're taping this, that this is just now upgraded to a cat five. Ginger Z, our chief meteorologist, seeing this play out faster and sooner than ever. Thank you so much.

President Joe Biden
Thank you. Have a great one.

Reverse Auctioneer
We've talked a lot about Boeing in recent months. Specifically, we talked about the planemaker's 737 Max. It was on a Max plane where a door plug popped out earlier this year, resulting in injuries for some and abject terror for everyone else on board.

Forget, the reason the 737 Max was already so scrutinized here was because of what happened a few years ago.

Divers already bringing back shiploads of debris and also body bags. Distraught friends and family gather in Jakarta hoping for news about loved ones. Remember in late 2018, a lion Air flight crashed into the Java Sea shortly after takeoff, killing 189 people. Just five months later, it happened again.

Just six minutes into its journey to Nairobi, the jet disappeared from radar. This time it was a flight on Ethiopian Airlines, but same Max eight model, same MCAS stabilizers that were meant to level the plane, but instead suddenly forced the nose down. Since then, families have been grieving and some have been pushing the government to prosecute Boeing itself.

President Joe Biden
I would say to the flying public, hold them to account because they're not holding Boeing to account and they're not holding themselves to account.

Reverse Auctioneer
Well, this week it looks like criminal charges are very much on the table in the form of a plea deal. Let's bring in ABC's transportation reporter Sam Sweeney Sam, what exactly is in this plea deal?

Sam Sweeney
Well, the Department of Justice really had its hands tied. How do they criminally prosecute Boeing, but also preserve one of the biggest companies in America that is so crucial to not just commercial aviation, but also our military, our space? So they had to come up with some sort of a plan. And now it looks like they are going to try to criminally prosecute them, but they're going to offer them a plea deal to avoid a trial. So the Department of Justice is going to offer this plea deal to Boeing, saying that you will plead guilty, this to this conspiracy charge, which is a conspiracy to defraud the United states, basically saying that Boeing lied to regulators, to the FAA when it was trying to get its plane certified, and that they weren't filled in on all of the details. And that's why that Max plane went out and it wasn't safe to fly. They're also going to make them get a corporate monitor, which will oversee a lot of the safety at Boeing, and then, of course, pay a $200 million fine. Now, there is possibly more to this plea deal that we don't know about because the Department of Justice hasn't come out and said they were going to do this themselves. They've only briefed the family members and their attorneys.

Reverse Auctioneer
What is the reaction been like from family members?

Sam Sweeney
Family members are calling this another sweetheart deal for Boeing.

Plane Crash Victim's Family Member
It's not the Department of Justice. It's actually a Department of protecting corporations.

Sam Sweeney
They wanted Boeing to be criminally prosecuted. They wanted individuals to face prison time, and they wanted a $20 billion fine.

Plane Crash Victim's Family Member
We need to hold Boeing accountable, not have them just pay fines as part of the cost of their doing business. They killed 346 people.

Sam Sweeney
And why this trial was so important to the families is because they want to hear from witnesses. They want to be able to go and get discovery and see the evidence and expose Boeing for what they call this corporate monster that is responsible for the deaths of their loved ones. And if they get this plea agreement and they don't go to trial, then all of that doesn't become public and available to these families.

Plane Crash Victim's Family Member
If they sent executives to jail, believe me, all kinds of behavior would change. But they're not going to do that. They say they don't want to do that.

Sam Sweeney
The families are so upset that they're actually planning to fly to Texas, where this court case is being held, and ask the judge not to go forward with this plea agreement on behalf of the federal government and to make Boeing go to trial.

Reverse Auctioneer
How did this plea deal come about? Because you described this, like, as the prosecution that almost didn't happen.

Sam Sweeney
Well, back in 2021, when Boeing was coming out of the Max crash investigation, accepted responsibility for this problem, the Department of Justice went to Boeing and gave them this deferred prosecution agreement and fine of $2 billion. It was a three year deal, a probation period to say, you know, get it together, fix how you produce airplanes, make safe airplanes. You can't have any safety issues for the next three years, and you'll avoid prosecution.

Reverse Auctioneer
Yes, we are emergency. We are depressurized.

Sam Sweeney
Fast forward as that deferred prosecution agreement was wrapping up in its final days on her son's shirt, that door plug flew out of that Alaska Airlines plane. Alaska Airlines grounding all of its Boeing 737 Max nine planes after an emergency landing last night.

Reverse Auctioneer
Look at this.

Sam Sweeney
Because of a hole in the fuselage. And just opened up Boeing to further problems with the Department of Justice. And, of course, gave the families some hope that they may finally get justice for their loved ones who were killed on those Max crashes.

Reverse Auctioneer
And Boeing continues to say they did not breach that agreement. It's not like there's this flaw in the mcas system that still exists. Everyone acknowledges they fixed that. The government is saying this is more about transparency. You failed. What happens next?

Sam Sweeney
The Department of Justice formally notifies Boeing, and then they are going to give them until this coming Friday to say, we're going to accept this charge and we're going to plead guilty or we're going to go to trial. Most experts believe that Boeing will choose not to go to trial because of what, you know, we just talked about and the can of worms that it opens up and exposes Boeing to. And this is just one investigation that Boeing is dealing with. You know, the Department of Justice is working on possible criminal charges for the Alaska air blowout. They're also, you know, the NTSB investigations, the FAA investigations. The FAA is limiting the amount of planes that Boeing can produce until they can, you know, are confident that Boeing can up their production and also produce safe airplanes.

Reverse Auctioneer
Yeah. In the meantime, this is the plea deal that's on the table. Doesn't mean Boeing has to take it. And so if Boeing doesn't take this, you could imagine this still going to a trial. Sam Sweeney, thanks a lot.

Sam Sweeney
Thank you.

Reverse Auctioneer
Okay, one more quick break. When we come back, healthier alternative, or gateway vape. One last thing is next.

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Reverse Auctioneer
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Reverse Auctioneer
And one last thing.

A major tobacco company introduced a new product in the vaping game yesterday.

No nicotine. And while you might think, well, that sounds healthier, question mark health advocates aren't convinced at all.

So here's the story. RJ Reynolds is traditionally one of America's biggest tobacco companies. Like their competitors, they'd been in the e cigarette space for years. And yesterday they unveiled Sensa, a series of vapes with flavors like watermelon, berry and mint that contains no nicotine, the addictive chemical in tobacco. The company says its for people who like to vape but dont need that chemical rush. Well, immediately groups like the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids said, wait a minute, we see what youre doing, the fruity flavors, the idea that its safer. Youre trying to normalize vaping for kids.

Now Reynolds is insistent this is not a play for young would be vapers. Their press release yesterday announcing the senseline was eleven sentences long and used the word adulthood eleven times. Like adult tobacco and vapor, consumers across the retail marketplace are looking for more options or the product will be responsibly marketed to adult tobacco and vape consumers. They specifically said marketing campaigns would include older models, that web properties would be age restricted. An image of the packaging has a prominent warning, saying, having zero nicotine doesnt mean this product is safe after all. The CDC will tell you that vaping can still damage the lungs and exposes vape users to cancer causing chemicals and heavy metals. But if youre opposed to all this, what would you even do to stop it? A nicotine less product is unlikely to be federally regulated the way cigarettes are. And data show that fruity e cigarettes are most popular among teenagers. All this to say it is a new dawn in the vaping world. But its the same story as ever. Tobacco companies want to tap new markets and parental groups dont want their efforts going up in smoke.

All right. And more on all these stories@abcnews.com. or the ABC News app. And remember, we are smart, speaker friendly. You plug us into whatever goofy named electronic speaker we all have at this point, and you will hear us there. We love them all. I'm Brad Milke. See you tomorrow.