Biden: Defiant? Or in Denial?

This episode critically examines President Joe Biden's ability to lead and maintain support within the Democratic Party amidst challenges and critiques.

1. President Biden remains adamant about his capability and readiness to continue leading, dismissing any talks of cognitive tests or stepping down.
2. The Democratic Party exhibits mixed signals, with some members showing overt support while others discreetly question his fitness for a potential second term.
3. Biden's interview did not alleviate concerns about his performance; instead, it may have heightened anxieties within his party.
4. The political landscape is rapidly shifting, with Biden needing to solidify support as the Democratic National Convention approaches.
5. The episode captures a moment of intense scrutiny and strategic positioning within American politics, emphasizing the divide between public support and political insider perspectives.

1: Opening Remarks

Overview of President Biden's recent struggles and the political climate surrounding his presidency. Brad Milke: "They wanted to see a clear-eyed president totally in command. This didn't help."

2: The Interview

Details Biden's defiant responses during his interview, addressing his health and political support. Joe Biden: "Every one of them. They all said I should stay in the race."

3: Analysis by Jonathan Karl

Discussion on the effectiveness of the interview and the broader implications for Biden's campaign. Jonathan Karl: "It wasn't a disaster... But it didn't calm nerves at all."

4: Democratic Responses

Exploration of the varied reactions from the Democratic Party regarding Biden's candidacy. Katherine Faulders: "But it's just not true that Democrats up and down the line are begging him to stay in."

5: Broader Political Implications

Insights into the upcoming political events and their potential impact on Biden's presidency. Jonathan Karl: "The political calendar is moving very quickly."

1. Stay Informed: Regularly update yourself on political developments to make informed voting decisions.
2. Engage Politically: Participate in local and national political discussions or campaigns to influence outcomes.
3. Critical Consumption: Critically analyze political interviews and news for a deeper understanding of the issues.
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5. Community Discussions: Organize or join community forums to discuss political changes and their local impacts.

Democrats react to President Biden’s interview with ABC’s George Stephanopoulos. Former President Trump responds to concerns about a purge of government workers proposed by the right-wing Heritage Foundation. And French voters deliver a surprise rebuke to several far-right candidates.

People

Joe Biden, George Stephanopoulos, Jonathan Karl, Katherine Faulders, Chris Murphy

Companies

None

Books

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Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

None

Ryan Reynolds
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B
It's Monday, July 8. They wanted to see a clear eyed president totally in command. This didn't help. We start here.

Joe Biden
Well, I just had a bad night.

B
Democrats react to the interview meant to silence the doubters.

Jonathan Karl
They're saying, well, the decision is Joe Biden's, which suggests there's a decision to be made.

B
But every hour that ticks by is an hour closer to a Biden nomination will take you inside the closed door conversations. Meanwhile, would a second Trump term be more ruthless?

Katherine Faulders
This would be the loyalty test, what.

B
He'S saying about a proposal that would upend the executive branch as we know it. And it's an election surprise in France.

G
That took the win last night and was clearly the winner in the election.

B
Bon Dieu. How expectations have been flipped on their heads twice in the span of a week.

From ABC News, this is start here. I'm Brad Milke.

Well, if you thought July 4 was going to usher in a relaxing four day weekend, Washington apparently had other plans.

Joe Biden
Mister President, thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me.

B
In the last week, it's become very clear that President Joe Biden is barely, just barely, holding onto the support of his fellow Democrats, who, after watching him falter on the debate stage, are no longer sure he's even capable of beating Donald Trump. And as if to prove them wrong, he sat down on Friday evening with ABC's George Stephanopoulos. And if you haven't heard this interview, we posted it on this feed on Friday night. I encourage you to stop what you're doing, go back to our previous episode and just listen to that in full. Cause it's newsy. The overall tone, though, was really one of defiance.

Joe Biden
It seemed like you were having trouble from the first questionnaire, even before he spoke.

Well, I just had a bad night.

B
George asked the president if this was the sign of a larger decline. He said no. He asked if he had received any nearer losses. The president said he's never been told he needs one.

Joe Biden
Do you dispute that there have been more lapses, especially in the last several months?

Can I run the 110 flat? No, but I'm still in good shape.

Are you more frail?

No.

B
And over and over, George pressed Biden on what's been widely reported that behind the scenes some Democrats are advising, even begging that he step aside. Biden said outright, that's not what they've been saying to me.

Joe Biden
Every one of them. They all said I should stay in the race.

Stay in the race. No one said. None of the people said I should leave the. But if they do, well, it's like they're not going to do that.

You sure? Well, yeah, I'm sure.

B
Which in a way is almost issuing a challenge to elected Democrats across Washington. Like, if you want me to step down, stand up and say it out loud, this seemed to be a bet or perhaps a prayer that they won't. So as lawmakers come back to Washington today in what could be a defining week for the presidency, let's check in with ABC's chief Washington correspondent, Jonathan Karl, who is working as sources all weekend. Jonathan, first off, the interview itself, did it accomplish what Biden hoped? Did it stop the bleeding?

Jonathan Karl
Absolutely not. I mean, look, it wasn't a disaster. It didn't jeopardize his campaign. It didn't force a crisis like the debate did. A second crisis like that and it would have been over. But it didn't calm nerves at all.

He was certainly better in the interview than he was in the debate. He looked better, he sounded more coherent, but he did nothing to allay the fears. And especially, Brad, towards the end of the interview, when George asked him how he'd feel if Trump wins and all that you have been warning about comes to pass, I feel as long as.

Joe Biden
I gave it my all and I did the goodest job as I know I can do, that's what this is about.

Jonathan Karl
And he answered essentially, you know, as long as I gave it my all, that's what this is all about. And this is not about that for Democrats.

B
Yeah. What is that? That means I'd be fine with it as long as I came out okay. Is that what he's saying?

Jonathan Karl
Hey, as long as we all try, Brad. As long as we all try. You know, I mean, it's exactly, I mean, when you view Donald Trump the way, frankly, Biden does and the way so many Democrats and Republicans who don't like Trump do, as not just a bad candidate who shouldn't go back to the White House, but somebody that could do grave damage to the institution of american democracy saying, hey, as long as we all try here, you know, whatever happens, happens is not the answer any of them are looking for.

B
And again, what was interesting to me was Biden saying to George, like everyone's telling me to stay in. Is that from your speaking to Democrats all weekend, is that true? I mean, are people close to him insisting he stay in the race?

Jonathan Karl
Yeah, well, people really close to him are. I mean, by all signs, his family is his top advisors.

Katherine Faulders
He understands that it is fair for.

B
People to ask that question, but we.

Katherine Faulders
Cannot forget his record.

Jonathan Karl
But it's just not true that Democrats up and down the line are begging him to stay in. As a matter of fact, when they're asked the question, what you are hearing, those that have come out publicly, they're saying, well, the decision is Joe Biden's, which suggests there's a decision to be made about whether to drop out. And I was also struck to hear Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, prominent Democrat in the Senate, always been close to Joe Biden, say on CNN that he hasn't spoken to Biden since the debate. Have you spoken to the president since the debate?

Joe Biden
I have not.

Jonathan Karl
The debate was a week and a half ago and Biden hasn't even reached out to him yet. I mean, it's extraordinary. It took Biden nearly a week to talk to democratic leadership.

Joe Biden
It was a tough race. It's brutal. Now with the greatest respect, I don't think he's up for it.

Jonathan Karl
There are two drumbeats. One is a little softer, the public drumbeat by elected Democrats and key figures in the party to tell Biden to get out. A lot of them haven't said anything at all. But you're starting to see you have at least five members of the House. You have certainly a lot of the major donors to the party saying for the good of the country, for the good of the party, Biden should a step aside. But the other drumbeat is the private drumbeat, and it's much louder. I'm talking to a lot of these people who will only speak on, you know, on an off the record or background basis, who are saying, look, you know, it's Biden's decision, but he's got to make the decision because at this point he can't win.

B
But, but this is my question, John, is, is if you're one of these Democrats who are like, hey, Biden needs to be like, if he won't do this himself, he kind of needs to be pushed by all of us out loud. This needs to be public. It might get really messy. But say all that happens, it would have to happen soon. Like the Democratic National Convention is six weeks from now. I mean, if this is still a debate in a month, doesn't that get even more toxic for Democrats? You can't just have the president making up his mind a month from now.

Jonathan Karl
No, it has to happen really soon. I mean, there's an argument for it having to happen within days. But the president is still the president of the United States. He's got a very busy schedule the upcoming week. He's got the NATO meetings in Washington. He has presidential duties that he'll be doing. The White House has announced that there's going to be a press conference once those meetings are over on Thursday, late Thursday, it'll be interesting to see what happens there. That would be one possible inflection point. And then we're into the republican convention next week. I mean, I expect we'll hear who Donald Trump's running mate is, you know, possibly within the next day or certainly within the next week.

B
Right.

Jonathan Karl
So the political calendar is moving very quickly.

I think the window is really about the next two or three weeks that this decision needs to be made.

B
Last question for you, because some polling and Biden talked about polling to George, right, saying that the polls I see actually aren't that bad for me. And in fact, we did see a few swing state polls that showed the gap narrowing between Trump and Biden, which would be counter to what you might have expected after the debate. Is there a case to be made that, you know what, regular voters just do not care as much as the political class about a debate performance? Is that a real thing at all? Or is this alarm bell time for all Democrats up and down the ballot?

Jonathan Karl
Well, that's exactly what people close to Biden are saying. And Biden himself is saying that there's a disconnect between the political elite, the donor class, the elected officials, and actual real people.

Joe Biden
We're drawing crowds that have been really big crowds ever since the debate. Not joking even that night in the debate, great crowds afterwards.

Jonathan Karl
What they don't often mention, though, about that is that he was trailing significantly in Pennsylvania. And guess what? If Joe Biden doesn't win Pennsylvania, he's not going to be president come January 20 of next year.

B
Like that's so important that it shouldn't even be close, basically, for Biden.

Jonathan Karl
Yes. Yes. And so, look, they're trying to look and squint and try to see some good news out there. It's, it's very hard to see it.

Perhaps the polling so far doesn't show the bottom completely falling out, but what it shows is absolutely no change from what was the situation before the debate, which is Joe Biden, by all indications, is losing right now to Donald Trump. And you'd be hard pressed to make the case that that debate did anything to change that right?

B
In the interview itself, too, perhaps. And I know there was a big Zoom meeting among House Democrats last night. We have since reported that at that meeting, several prominent members, heads of committees like power brokers, said out loud they think Biden should stand down. But again, this was behind closed doors. The big question as we start the week is whether they will keep it that way. John, Carl, thanks a lot.

Jonathan Karl
Thank you, Brett.

B
Next up on start here, let's not forget, Biden is not the only one facing questions about whether he's presidential material. New concerns about a Trump loyalty test in Washington after the break.

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Now, I mentioned the Democratic National Convention is six weeks from today. Well, for Republicans, as John said, it's way sooner. One week from today, they will gather in Milwaukee. And, in fact, today some will meet to start drafting a new Republican Party platform, a document that says in black and white what Republicans would do if elected. However, in recent days, another document has been floating around 900 pages declaring that President Trump, in a second term, would radically transform american government itself by firing employees and replacing them with people completely loyal to Trumpism. Now, this document did not come from the Trump campaign. It came from an outside group. And in fact, it's become such a flashpoint that Trump has felt the need to distance himself from it. This weekend, ABC senior reporter Katherine Faulders is with us now. Katherine, this has been called project 2025. What is that?

Katherine Faulders
So, Brad, this project 2025 plan, which we've been hearing a lot about in the news lately, is from the Heritage foundation. Now, the Heritage foundation is this extremely right leaning think tank.

Marco Rubio
The left has built a system that blocks and sabotages our efforts to run our government and deliver a conservative agenda.

Katherine Faulders
They want to be able to start on day one of Trump's administration, this overhaul of government, creating this radical system of government that would shake our current system to its core.

Marco Rubio
This time, we have project 2025. By learning from the experience of former conservative appointees, we can overcome common obstacles and get things done.

Katherine Faulders
This group is largely made up of Republicans who believe the executive branch should be able to act pretty much unencumbered to the demands of the president.

B
The president is the chief executive officer of our government. Your job is to defend it. Your job is to do what he tells you to do if it is a lawful and constitutional objective.

Katherine Faulders
They've talked about abolishing up to 50,000 civil servants in the government to abolish agencies like the Department of Education, multiple other agencies.

Jonathan Karl
We have to dismantle systems. We have to be able to unpack.

B
How and why we have a cultural wide problem at the Department of Justice, FBI in particular, and to be able to dismantle that.

Katherine Faulders
We talked about loyalty tests in the first Trump administration, but this would be the loyalty test, right?

B
And I'm just looking through it like radical stuff, like the idea of cracking down on abortion rights through these federal agencies, outlawing pornography through federal agencies. And, of course, the biggest thing here I guess, is that critics would say this is like something you see from an authoritarian state, right, of you only have loyalists working in government. There's no career bureaucrats at all. But we see white papers all the time, Katherine. Like we see think tanks publish what they wish the president would do all the time. Why is this any different?

Katherine Faulders
So Biden and his allies have actually been sounding the alarm on Project 2025 for quite some time. But the president of the Heritage foundation, he's been generating all this controversy. The president, Kevin Roberts, claimed this was an immediate appearance, actually, on Steve Bannon's war room show. He claimed that the country was in the middle of a second american revolution.

B
I come full circle on this response.

Jonathan Karl
And just want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second American Revolution, which.

B
Will remain bloodless if the left allows.

Katherine Faulders
It to be using words like bloodless. That has generated more loud responses, if you will, from President Biden, from Democrats campaign has pointed to recently, actually, is that the current spokesperson for the Trump campaign, her name's Caroline Leavitt, that she appeared actually in a 2023 video promoting Project 2020 five's training program. Now, she would say, wait a second, I didn't work at the Trump campaign at the time. I was working somewhere else. But the point is, the point that Democrats are trying to show is this direct link, if you will, to Trump, the Trump campaign in this group.

B
I was going to say, Katherine, because Trump actually, especially since the Biden debate, has actually been pretty quiet about the Joe Biden of it all. But he's now responding to this specifically. Right? Like, how does Trump describe his relationship with this so called plan?

Katherine Faulders
I find the Trump response to be quite interesting to this. He posted on true social, and I'll read it to you. Trump wrote, I disagree with some of the things they're saying, and some of the things they're saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. Anything they do, I wish them luck, but I have nothing to do with them. But what's important to point out here, in my view, is that many of those who are behind Project 2025 are his former cabinet secretaries, former senior staffers in the White House when Trump was president. His former chief of staff, Mark Meadows, is advising this group. So people that Trump is still actively in touch with.

So the distancing, I think Trump now realizes that this is not entirely popular to the general electorate. So you have people like Marco Rubio, for example, a VP contender who went on CNN yesterday and essentially distanced himself from this, too.

Marco Rubio
I mean, think tanks do think tank stuff. They come up with ideas. They say things. I look, I like Heritage Foundation. I agree with some of the things they stand for. But there's a bunch of scholars and people that turn around and work on different projects. But our candidate for president is Donald Trump.

Katherine Faulders
But it's a bit disingenuous in a sense to completely distance himself or Trump from this because at the end of the day, we know that these are some of these, I should say, ideas that Trump and his top advisors have been discussing privately and frankly, openly for quite some time.

B
Right. Because we talk so much about, like how the candidates sound like, we talk about their age all the time, who's up for the job. And of course, the policies that each of these administrations would have remains like a huge part, of course, of why people would vote for either candidates. And the Biden administration really latching onto this, of course, in the wake of that debate as well. So that's part of this as well. Katherine Faulders, thank you.

Katherine Faulders
Thanks, Brad.

B
When we last talked about european elections last week, the UK was preparing for a landslide victory for the left wing Labour party. While in France, early votes were showing an equally landslide y victory for the far right. One of those trends came true. The other, well, we got a surprise.

So in the UK, labor did not just have a good night, they had a great night. We did it.

Winning a staggering 412 of the 650 seat parliament. Remember, in a parliament with lots of parties, it's pretty rare for anyone to win an outright majority. Usually gotta cobble together power with others. Well, in this tectonic victory, labor took nearly two thirds of the seats all by themselves. For the first time in 14 years, they are back in charge. The country's new prime minister is Keir Starmer.

G
Now our country has voted decisively for change.

B
Okay, so that's what happened basically according to plan. But over in France, we witnessed a complete vibe shift overnight. Let's go to ABC's foreign correspondent Tom Sufi Buridge, who's based in Paris. Tom, wait, so this is not voting for president? Basically. Every other seat, though was up for grabs. Right? What happened yesterday?

G
Yeah. So look, President Macron, his poll ratings were already plummeting. And then in last month's european election, his party got walloped. And the real winner back then was France's far right party called the national Rally party. They took 32% of the vote in the european election, Macron's party, just 14%. Then Macron took everyone by surprise. He dissolved parliament. He caught a Snapdez parliamentary election. We had the first round of that election last week and the far right National Rally party once again were the clear winners. They took a third of the vote and it was looking very, very good for them. I mean, really, it was almost certain that they would be the lead party at least, and they were even gunning for an absolute majority in the parliament and that would have been an historic first. France has never had a far right government.

B
Vive la Republique. Vive la France.

G
The most prominent figure within the national Rally party, the far right party here in France has been Marine Le Pen, presidential candidate in the past, running consistently her party on an anti immigration ticket. Also, though, in more recent times, playing into the cost of living crisis which is affecting so many countries around the.

Katherine Faulders
World, social justice won tonight. Environmental justice has won.

G
What we saw last night, though, was a bit of a turnaround in the second round of voting. And what happened was this left wing alliance, it's a broad left wing alliance, it's got socialists in it, communists, greens, and another far left party effectively that took the win last night and was clearly by a sort of real margin of seats, the winner in the election, Macron's party, didn't do quite as badly as expected.

He came in second. His party and the far right National Rally party were knocked into third. So, I mean, yes, they've gained more seats in parliament than the last time we had a parliamentary election in France, the far right, but they've fallen well, well short of their expectations after such strong showings both in the european election and in the first round of this vote a week ago.

B
What happened between then and now, Tom? I mean, why was this such a disappointment from their perspective, perhaps?

G
Yeah, it's a great question. Look, certainly tactical manoeuvres played a role here. What we saw as after that, sort of pretty much like an earthquake, that first round vote when the far right was way ahead of the others.

What happened was there were left wing alliance, the one in the second round, and Macron's kind of centrist alliance. Both said that in constituencies where their candidates had come third, pretty much all of those third place candidates would pull out. So effectively you have these two other alliances kind of conspiring against the far right, meaning that any voters who wouldn't be voting for the far right would be consolidated towards either of the two other candidates. And basically that definitely had an impact. Now, were there other things at play? Did more people come out and decide not to vote far right? Possibly to, but clearly that tactical maneuvering.

B
Played a role this becomes like the election of anyone but Maureen Le Pen or anyone but this party.

G
Exactly. And that's what's happened in presidential elections in the past. Right. I mean, so this is a parliamentary election. Right. So Macron stays in power, he's gonna stay in power for three years because this wasn't a presidential election. His position, though, is weaker now because his party isn't the biggest party in the parliament.

He's going to have to maybe do a deal, maybe with the left wing alliance. But on key issues, those two camps haven't seen. I, two, I, it's going to be quite messy and it's really, really uncertain right now when and how we'll actually have a functioning government in France.

B
Really interesting. And I remember when France had a further left president. In fact, some of the right wing backlash you're seeing now is kind of a response to that. But all this goes to show that as much momentum as these far right parties have doesn't mean the entire country's behind them. Often it comes down to kind of factions teaming up with each other. Tom Sufiberge, they are in Paris right now. Thank you.

G
Thanks, Brad.

B
Ok, one more quick break. When we come back, is this the slowest, fastest race in the world? One last thing is next.

Ryan Reynolds
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B
And one last thing. Yesterday in England was a day of speed.

Hamilton's British Grand Prix featured some of the most finely tuned race cars in the world, with speeds exceeding 200 miles an hour. In a thriller on Sky Sports, we watched Lewis Hamilton win the checkered flag.

I
Lewis Hamilton wins the British Grand Prix.

B
What a victory. But just because this was quick doesn't mean it was the most exciting race of the weekend.

I
Just to remind you, it's. Anyone can enter if you want to enter a snail.

B
100 miles to the northeast on the eastern shores of the UK, you were listening to the sounds of a snail race.

Joe Biden
Ready, steady, slide.

I
And they're off. And they're off at a snail's pace.

B
Every year at the Grimston Cricket Club locals show up to watch snails square off in a very leisurely contest.

I
It's fantastic. It always is. Every year.

B
The organizer, Nicholas Dixon, I'm not making this up, has an official title of snail master. And while f one drivers aren't usually fans of soggy english weather, he said a little drizzle was perfect, a little.

I
Bit damp just a few minutes ago, but generally these damp conditions, not too warm, is fantastic for snail racing.

B
The racecourse, if you will, is a pretty simple one. Snails get placed all together in the center of a table. Inside this little circle, there's a bigger circle around the edges, meaning that any direction you slither, you can reach the finish line.

I
And it's the first one to cross the 13 and a half inch course and get a nose onto the outer black ring that wins the race.

B
A dab of paint on the shells, like a bib on a horse, helps owners tell them apart.

Nicholas will actually sell you a snail for the day from his own stable. But Simon Lilly brought his own contestants straight from his garden.

G
He's got a rigorous training program, and he loves his green leaves, so we feed him plenty of nice green leaves.

B
As slimy as they are, snails and slugs are known as nature cleanup crew. They feed on rotting material, eating it up, recycling nutrients back into the soil. For a cleanup crew, though, snail racers can still play dirty when they're bunched up together at the starting line, a lot of them stick onto each other, effectively hitching a ride. If this is a foot long sprint, though, it's the only one where you can look away and not miss anything. This snail owner's name is Chris Hamilton. Not to be confused with the f one winner, Lewis Hamilton.

G
I like the pace of the race more than anything else. So, you know, the race can start. You can run off for a cup of tea and a cake, come back, you know, and if you're lucky, it's kind of finished.

I
Come on, let's scrape it. Jeff, Jeff.

Katherine Faulders
Jeff.

B
At the end of the day, though, it was Simon's snail that won by a neck length.

I
And we have a world champion, ladies and gentlemen, trained by Simon.

B
And dollar 500 was raised for the local church. Might not seem like a lot of money, but you know what they say, slow and steady.

Also, I found out the record for the world snail racing championship back in 1995. A snail named Archie went those 13 and a half inches in two minutes flat. Apparently that means, like, Archie is a straight up speed demon. No one's seen anything like it since. By the way, the British appeared to borrow this concept from the French several decades ago. The difference was in the french races, they ate the contestants. Anyway, if you are looking to hear that audio that we talked about earlier from George Stephanopoulos interview with President Biden, again, you can just scroll down in this feed to hear it. I'm Brad Milke. I'll see you tomorrow.