Alec Baldwin Goes on Trial

This episode covers the trial of Alec Baldwin regarding the accidental shooting on the set of the film "Rust," exploring legal and procedural ramifications.

1. Alec Baldwin faces a single felony charge of involuntary manslaughter, with potential prison time if convicted.
2. The prosecution's challenge is proving Baldwin's negligence amidst conflicting reports about the gun's functionality.
3. Baldwin's defense argues that responsibility for the gun safety was solely the armorer’s, not Baldwin’s.
4. There was a significant pretrial ruling that Baldwin’s role as a producer is not relevant to this case.
5. The trial’s outcome could set precedents for actor and producer responsibilities on movie sets.

1. Opening of the Trial

Overview of Alec Baldwin's trial starting in New Mexico, focusing on the charges and Baldwin's defense.

• Brad Milke: "The trial of Alec Baldwin gets underway in New Mexico."

2. Details of the Incident

Recap of the tragic shooting incident during the filming of "Rust" and the events that led to it.

• Alec Baldwin: "I cocked the gun. I go, can you see that? Can you see that?"

3. Legal Perspectives

Insight into the legal arguments and strategies of both the defense and the prosecution.

• Mola Lenghi: "Baldwin insisting not only was he unaware that the gun contained a live round..."

4. Broader Implications

Discussion on how the trial's outcomes might influence film industry standards and legal practices.

• Mola Lenghi: "One of the major aspects of the defense's case is that the responsibility falls on the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez."

1. Always verify safety equipment personally in high-risk environments.
2. Understand the legal responsibilities of your role in any professional setting.
3. Implement rigorous safety checks and protocols in workplace settings.
4. Ensure clear communication and documentation of safety procedures.
5. Educate yourself about the legal implications of your professional actions.

Jury selection begins in the trial of Alec Baldwin in New Mexico. President Biden fights to save his campaign. And in one of its most brutal attacks in months, Russia bombs a Ukrainian children’s hospital.

People

Alec Baldwin, Helena Hutchins, Hannah Gutierrez

Companies

None

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

None

Content Warnings:

Content includes discussion of a fatal shooting accident.

Brad Milke
It's Tuesday, July 9, and these could be the most important twelve audience members he's ever faced. We start here.

The trial of Alec Baldwin gets underway in New Mexico.

Mola Lenghi
That was definitely a win for Baldwin and his defense team.

Brad Milke
There's already been a significant ruling ahead of jury selection. Our team is there at the courthouse. Some have suggested President Biden graciously step away. This is his response.

Rachel Scott
The president essentially daring any Democrats to sort of challenge him in any sort of nomination process.

Brad Milke
Ahead of congressional meetings today, White House staff are taking up battle stations. And ahead of a NATO summit, Russia bombs a ukrainian children's hospital.

Patrick Rievl
I mean, it's just absolutely unthinkable.

Brad Milke
The attack that has sent shockwaves from Kyiv to Washington.

From ABC News, this is start here. I'm Brad Milke.

It's been almost three years since a cast and crew gathered in New Mexico to make a western movie called Rust. He said someone was shot, two people accidentally. You probably remember what happened in October of 2021. Actor and producer Alec Baldwin was rehearsing a scene where he's holding a gun, pointing it straight to camera.

Alec Baldwin
Now, in this scene, I'm gonna cock the gun. And I said, do you want to see that? And she said, yes. So I take the gun and I start to cock the gun.

Brad Milke
It wasn't supposed to have live rounds in it, but somehow it did.

Alec Baldwin
I cocked the gun. I go, can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that? And she says, and then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off.

Brad Milke
Baldwin swears to this day he never pulled the trigger, but the FBI says he must have because it went off and killed cinematographer Helena Hutchins.

You were in the room when that lady, when someone was shot.

Alec Baldwin
I was holding the gun, yeah.

Brad Milke
Okay. All righty. What do you need? Charges were filed against Baldwin himself, along with the person responsible for weapons on set, armorer Hannah Gutierrez.

Hannah Gutierrez
I'm like the only female armorer in the game, and I just up my whole entire career.

Brad Milke
Charges against Baldwin were then dropped, but prosecutors warned they could be refiled. Well, fast forward now to 2024. Gutierrez has been convicted. Baldwin has been charged once again. And today his trial begins. A case with the ability to shape filmmaking legacies and perhaps procedures on set. So let's take you straight to New Mexico this morning. ABC's Mola Lenghi is there in Santa Fe. Mola, what charges is Baldwin actually facing here?

Mola Lenghi
Yeah, Brad, he's facing a single felony charge of involuntary manslaughter. It comes with up to 18 months in prison if he's found guilty.

The indictment alleges that Baldwin caused Hutchins death either bye by negligence or disregard or indifference for safety. Now, as you mentioned, Baldwin has pleaded not guilty. He has stressed his innocence time and time again over the last few years.

Alec Baldwin
Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.

Brad Milke
So you never pulled the trigger?

Alec Baldwin
No, no, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them. Never.

Mola Lenghi
Baldwin insisting not only was he unaware that the gun contained a live round, but that, as you said, it was the armorer's responsibility to check.

Brad Milke
Why were the charges filed like they were taken away, then they were filed again by a different prosecutor. I know it's not double jeopardy, but what changed, I guess.

Mola Lenghi
Yeah. Yeah. You know, this really has been a sort of judicial rollercoaster ride the last few years just leading up to this trial where we are right now. Baldwin, as you said, was initially charged soon after the onset shooting.

Jen Tran
As an actor and as a producer, you can't walk onto a set, hold a gun, point it at someone, pull the trigger, and just, just hope that everything went right, only to have those.

Mola Lenghi
Charges dismissed after they couldn't figure out whether the gun fired properly.

Brad Milke
Prosecutors dropped all manslaughter charges against Baldwin after sources say the gun was determined to be mechanically improper.

Mola Lenghi
And then those charges were eventually revived through a grand jury after prosecutors said that they received new analysis of the gun. So now the prosecution has to, you know, in addition to proving Baldwin's guilt, they also have to prove in this trial that in all of that testing and analysis of the gun and whether it was, you know, taken apart and put back together in that testing, the prosecution has to prove that the gun was not affected in all of that. Again, in addition to proving that Baldwin was negligent.

Brad Milke
Oh, that's gonna be the defense's case. You guys can't even trust this gun that they're putting in front of you like it's been manhandled so much that who knows what actually happened?

Mola Lenghi
Absolutely. I mean, there's reasonable doubt right there as far as the defense is concerned, and that's what they'll try to prove to the jury.

Brad Milke
What else do we know about the defense strategy here?

Mola Lenghi
Yeah, well, I mean, one of the defense's arguments here is that everyone on set is yelling, cold gun.

You know, and it goes to the argument that Baldwin is just an actor in this, that he is not the expert, that he is not the one who is in charge of gun safety and is not the one responsible.

Hannah Gutierrez
When I took on rust, I was young and I was naive, but I took my job as seriously as I knew how to.

Mola Lenghi
One of the major aspects of the defense's case is that the responsibility falls on the armor on Hannah Gutierrez. That as an actor, Baldwin essentially trusted the experts on the movie set and that the buck ultimately stops with them, specifically with Gutierrez, who, again, has already been found guilty despite not having proper.

Hannah Gutierrez
Time, resources, and staffing. When things got tough, I just did my best to handle it.

Mola Lenghi
You know, Brad, it's also worth noting that there was a pretty significant development in Monday's pretrial hearing.

Hannah Gutierrez
I'm having real difficulty with the state's position.

Mola Lenghi
The judge ruling that Baldwin's role as a rust movie producer is not relevant to the trial, only his role as an actor. You know, prosecutors had planned to argue that Baldwin had a unique and special responsibility as a producer, well beyond the responsibility of the actor holding the gun for the alleged dangerous environment that led to the deadly shooting on October 21.

Hannah Gutierrez
When he points that gun at Miss Hutchins, he should know that as a producer, he's responsible for her safety, because that is one of the things that producers are responsible for, safety on set.

Mola Lenghi
The prosecution really trying to take two bites out of the same apple. You know, they wanted to be able to argue that Baldwin was negligent, one, as a movie producer, creating that reckless and unsafe atmosphere that led to the shooting. And they also wanted to be able to argue that Baldwin was negligent as the actor who was holding the gun. That was definitely a win for Baldwin and his defense team and a seeming setback for the prosecution going into the trial today.

Brad Milke
So what happens now, Mullah? Because today, jury selection. But then you're going to have openings and then witnesses, I assume. And the question for me would be, is Baldwin gonna testify? Are others gonna testify who were on this set? What?

Mola Lenghi
Yeah, it's possible, you know, jury selection, as you mentioned, begins today. Once that jury's seated, you know, opening statements commenced, trial is expected to last about ten days. This is not expected to be, you know, a long, drawn out trial. The judge really making sure of that. She mandated prior to the trial that it needed to be wrapped up by Friday, July 19. So as far as who we might see testify, though, Brad, we're expecting to hear from crew members who were on the movie set, specifically some of those who were inside the church where the shooting happened. We'll also expect to hear from some of the responding officers, investigators, experts in firearms, experts in workplace safety. And as you mentioned, it's also possible that we could hear from Hannah Gutierrez, who is right now in the process of serving her 18 months in prison. And of course, the big question is whether Baldwin himself will testify. That's something that we'll wait and see.

Brad Milke
Really interesting case about to get underway here. All right, Mola Lenge will be tracking it all inside the courtroom. Thank you so much, Mola.

Mola Lenghi
Thanks, Brad.

Brad Milke
Next up on start here. At what point does a wall of support come crumbling down? President Biden is quickly trying to seal up some cracks. After the break, the wait is over. Dell Technologies Black Friday and July deals are live right now. Check out incredible savings on select laptops and more, like the XPS 15. Powered by intel core processors, the XPS 15 brings you the perfect balance of power and portability, plus stellar visuals, immersive sound. Your talents now have a device to stream videos, edit photos, or create your next masterpiece. Plus, complete your dream setup with deals on select monitors, mice and more. Must have electronics and accessories when you shop online@dell.com. deals. You'll have access to exceptional tech and electronics. And don't forget, free shipping on everything. Don't miss out on Black Friday in July savings@dell.com. deals. That's dell.com deals.

Jen Tran
Hey, it's me, Jen Tran, the new Bachelorette. Watch me on a groundbreaking season like you've never seen, Monday nights at eight on ABC.

Mola Lenghi
And don't miss our weekly bachelor podcast playing the field, hosted by me, Ryan Field, as we break down each episode.

Brad Milke
If you're a Democrat who thinks President Biden is no longer the right guy to be the nominee this year, there are no great options here, right? Cause on one hand, say Biden stays on the ticket against former President Donald Trump. Biden does the convention. He does another debate. He goes through a full slate of campaign events, knowing that perhaps every single time he's on stage, he could conceivably have another bad night as he described his first debate performance. So that's one plan. On the other hand, say Biden steps away now, he'd have to rally nationwide support around someone new in the next few months. Not easy, but maybe you think, honestly, that's a less bad plan. Let's do it. The only way that works, though, you would think, is if Biden gives that person the new nominee his full support. No contested convention, no political circus, none of that. A graceful passing of the torch. If the president digs his heels in or if people in his own party are calling him a bad candidate, well, this will get real ugly real fast. Yesterday, Biden signaled he is ready to fight anyone who dares oppose him. Let's go to ABC senior congressional correspondent Rachel Scott, who was at the Capitol as members were returning to the hill last night. Rachel, what's been happening?

Rachel Scott
Yeah, well, Brad, members are back for the first time since that debate, and the president is definitely taking notice. He sent a letter, letter to congressional Democrats that really just laid out now that you've returned back from the July 4 recess.

Brad Milke
Hi.

Rachel Scott
Hello. I'm not going anywhere. The president essentially daring any Democrats to sort of challenge him in any sort of nomination process that could play out at the democratic national Convention. He says bluntly in this letter that it is time to come together. It's time to move forward as a unified party and to defeat Donald Trump. If there's one takeaway from President Biden in all of this, he is absolutely defiant. He called into MSNBC's Morning Joe and he dismissed all this talk from a handful of House Democrats who are now calling on him to step aside.

Brad Milke
The bottom line here is that we're not going anywhere. I am not going anywhere.

Rachel Scott
But look, Brad, the concerns here are real. Yes. So far, only six House Democrats have come out to say that President Biden should step aside. But so many more privately and even publicly have signaled that they have concerns about his path forward, their concerns about if the president can defeat Donald Trump in November, and also concerns about how he affects the party on some of these down ballot races. And so I was out on Capitol Hill. We were chasing after lawmakers, and I'm in trouble if I don't go inside.

Brad Milke
I have people waiting for me and I'm in trouble.

Rachel Scott
And the president, even after releasing this letter, had yet one more Democrat come forward to say that they want him out.

Adam Smith
I just think right now he is not the effective messenger and the effective candidate that we need.

Rachel Scott
Congressman Adam Smith, who was a senior member in the House, told me that time's up.

Adam Smith
I think we have a chance to pick a better candidate who can effectively deliver the message, get off of all of these distractions, focus on the democratic message and on the dangers of Donald Trump. And I think we need to take that opportunity.

Rachel Scott
He wants the president to drop out and he says he needs to do it quickly in order for the party to move on.

Brad Milke
Wow. So that didn't have this letter from President Biden where he's like, if you want to challenge me, challenge me. Like that didn't seem to have an effect on that congressman, at least. I mean, what is Biden's plan then for, like, just consolidating the rest of these Democrats with him then?

Rachel Scott
Well, Brad, look, the president is keenly aware he can handle five or six House Democrats. Right? What he cannot handle is a sea of Democrats coming forward against him, especially if those Democrats are from the critical demographic group that propelled him to the White House four years ago. I'm talking about black voters here. And so this is why the president made this very strategic move to get the congressional black Caucus on a virtual call last night to make sure that he sent the message that he's not going anywhere and to directly ask for their continued support. I talked to two sources who were on this call, and they told me that the president said flat out, I need you. I'm not going to disappoint you. I promise you. He did take some questions, but he did not get challenged about his candidacy or really anyone really speaking out against him. Obviously, that is a stark contrast to what we have heard play out on other calls, especially with the democratic leader, Hakeem Jeffries.

Brad Milke
Well, and, Rachel, I mean, yesterday you had this kind of weird dynamic in Washington, specifically at the White House, because reports had circulated, and then we confirmed these reports that this neurologist who studies Parkinson's disease has apparently been at the White House, like, eight times in eight months. Immediately, this raised questions, of course, of whether Biden is being treated for Parkinson's. The White House said absolutely not. But then they wouldn't go into any other details. They kept saying, like, that's private. Even though these visitor logs are public information, we have to keep their privacy public.

Rachel Scott
It is public.

Brad Milke
I hear you.

And last night, we finally get this letter from Biden's doctor saying he had gotten permission to share that this neurologist was the guy who did the neurology portion of Biden's annual physical exam. Like he was there for the annual physical. There were no signs of Parkinson's or any other neurological disorder. And no, he had not treated Biden for any neurology issues like, outside of that one annual test. He said that this neurologist is actually at the White House campus often because he works with military families. So perhaps that accounts for some of the other visits. But the reason I'm bringing this up to you, Rachel, is you had reporters being like, we don't feel like the White House is being transparent about where President Biden stands health wise at the moment. Is that how Democrats in Congress feel? Like, do they feel like they're getting a full picture where the president's health stands?

Rachel Scott
Absolutely, Brad. It's not just reporters that have questions. It's lawmakers on Capitol Hill. And not just lawmakers. It's members of the president's own party. There were so many concerns that came out of that debate about whether or not the president's closest aides and senior advisors are being really honest not only with the american people but also with Democrats. That's why so many lawmakers on Capitol Hill don't just see this necessarily as one bad night. They see this as possibly affirming or confirming a lot of their deep fears and concerns that they've had all along.

And, Brad, we talk about just the numbers of how many people President Biden can lose. Will look, today is going to be a critical day on Capitol Hill. Senate Democrats and House Democrats are going to be meeting behind closed doors. And it is notable not a single Senate Democrat has yet to come out against President Biden, calling for him to step down. But we have talked to several who have made it clear they definitely have concerns.

Brad Milke
All right, Rachel Scott, a big day there on the Hill. We'll let you get to it. Thank you.

Rachel Scott
Thanks, Brad.

Brad Milke
Later today, members of NATO countries will gather in Washington to consider the biggest threats to world security. Particularly, they'll be talking about Russia. Well, barely 24 hours before they were all set to meet, Russia unleashed one of its most brutal attacks in months in the ukrainian capital of Kyiv. They weren't just hitting civilian targets. They hit a children's hospital. ABC's foreign correspondent Patrick Rievl has done extensive reporting in Ukraine in recent months. He joins us from London right now. Patrick, what happened here?

Patrick Rievl
Hey, Brad. Yeah, I mean, this is really one of the worst attacks that we've seen in Kyiv in many months. And frankly, some people are saying throughout the war, because, as you say, a russian missile slammed into what is Ukraine's biggest children's hospital.

It's a huge modern hospital right in the center of the city, which we have visited repeatedly, actually, and it specializes in treating children with severe illnesses, with cancer and generally with complex, very, very potentially lethal illnesses. And what happened was a missile slammed into the hospital grounds and destroyed part of the hospital when it hit. Some of the doctors there have said they were operating on children.

There was actually, the missile destroyed some operating rooms where doctors were operating. There's one doctor who told one british journalist that he had been conducting open heart surgery on a child when all the windows were blown out.

And then we saw these horrific images of just hundreds of very, very sick children, including cancer patients being evacuated from the hospital and being treated on the surface street. I mean, and you just have to imagine. Imagine your child is being treated for cancer, and a missile hits the hospital. I mean, it's just absolutely unthinkable. The hospital is incredibly badly damaged. I mean, they have destroyed part of it completely. It's rubble. There are people digging people out from under there.

There are nurses covered in blood. There are injured children, people being carried out, wounded. One of the leading doctors there said that 80% of the hospital's functions are now destroyed. They're asking for people to provide fundraising to try and rebuild it.

It's horrific. There's no other way to describe it. And this attack has caused a huge amount of shock. And it has to be said as well, it wasn't just an attack on the hospital. There were 40 missiles fired at five cities.

Missiles hit residential buildings in other parts of Kyiv. At least 20 people have been killed in Kyiv itself, at least two dozen people killed across the country, nearly 100 people injured in Kyiv. I mean, really a horrific attack.

Brad Milke
Well, and as we think about sort of the broader attack here, you've been reporting on how completely devastated these, these border areas had become. Right? Like these border areas in Ukraine, but they're near the russian border. But a while ago, we were kind of saying that in some ways, there was a type of normalcy returning to Kyiv, that that wasn't necessarily the target for Russia. Is that no longer the case? Patrick?

Patrick Rievl
Yeah, I think, you know, over the last two years, there was this remarkable thing where you would go to Kyiv, and it was returning, incredibly to what seemed almost like normal life. And the sirens would go off frequently.

But in part because of the air defense systems that had been provided by the US and other countries, they had, to a degree, become very good at shooting down russian missiles. You know, they would take out two thirds of the missiles that were being fired at Kyiv, which were still frequently being fired at the capital. But Russia was really focusing on areas of the country where they had less air defense. But the problem is that in recent months, Ukraine has started again to run out of air defense.

Brad Milke
Even best soldiers cannot change the war.

Patrick Rievl
Without sufficient number of weapons. They are very stretched. And what we've seen in the last sort of five months or so is Russia begin again to try and really target, particularly civilian infrastructure. And it should be said again, it wasn't only the children's hospital that was hit in Kyiv. Another hospital was hit, and a hospital was also hit in another city. And on the one hand, of course, the Russians are claiming that, you know, they don't target civilian targets, that these are just worst case, the missile just misses its target. But I think there has to be a question. Is it a coincidence when you have three hospitals hit and people in Syria, for example, who have faced a russian onslaught would say it's absolutely not a coincidence, it's about terror. And I think what's absolutely clear is that Russia right now is trying to build up a campaign of terrorizing people in Ukraine that going after the power infrastructure, Russia has managed to now destroy half of Ukraine's power infrastructure. And this is ahead of the winter. Right now it's warm in Ukraine, but what happens in the winter? And so I think in many ways, yeah, people had hoped that things had got better. But we're right now looking at a very, very difficult situation starting to develop in Ukraine, where the pressure on civilians is going to become enormous.

Brad Milke
Well, and is it also a coincidence that this happened just before the big NATO summit, Patrick, because I know NATO leaders are meeting in Washington today. Ukraine's president will be there. I'm sure Ukraine's membership continues to be a big question. I mean, does that figure into all this as well?

Patrick Rievl
I mean, look, you will never know for certain what's in the mind of the Kremlin, right? But I think it's a huge coincidence that a massive russian strike, one of the worst we've seen in months, happens to hit Ukraine the day before this crucial NATO summit. I think it's clearly meant to send a signal. It's meant to send a signal to Ukraine that no matter what comes out of this summit, no matter the solidarity that they express there, we're still coming for you. We're going to kill your children. We're going to destroy your power. And, you know, you might take comfort in what comes out of Washington, but we're still coming for you.

I think this is the message that Russia tries to send, and we've seen this many times. Whenever there is some kind of significant gathering or any significant expression of support for Ukraine, we'll see some sort of large barrage of missiles. The Kremlin is a big believer in symbolism.

Brad Milke
Yeah. A message to Ukrainians, as well as perhaps a message to these NATO countries that are considering how much and how long to support Ukraine here. All right. Patrick Rievl there in London. Thank you so much.

Patrick Rievl
Thanks, Brad.

Brad Milke
Ok, one more quick break when we come back. No check, please. One last thing is next.

Jen Tran
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Brad Milke
And one last thing.

Target made an announcement yesterday specifically about what forms of payment they're gonna take. And usually you think of companies expanding how you can pay them, right? We'll take cash, credit, eBt, apple pay, Klarna. This, however, was about crossing an option off the list. Starting next Monday, less than a week, you cannot pay for something at Target with a personal check.

Now some of you might be like, who uses personal checks anymore? There was a whole SNL sketch a few years ago describing checks as antiquated devices for, like, mink purchases and hush money. Forget whatever you think you saw last night by the gazebo checks.

And indeed, when you look at the stats, consumers are not using checks very much for retail purchases. Target says it simply doesn't see enough volume to take them anymore, but Americans still do use them for services. Data show that checks are still the preferred way of paying someone for big ticket services, like a contractor who needs $5,000 upfront to start work on the bathroom or something. Apps like Venmo come with limits, while credit cards come with sizable fees. But make no mistake, banks would like to get rid of checks eventually. The biggest reason is theyre a security nightmare. Imagine having a business card that included your name, address, bank account, and routing numbers. Theyre all there on one piece of paper. Would you give that out? Of course not. But that info is on just about every personal check at this point. The association of Fraud Professionals say that checks are used in fewer than 10% of transactions, but account for almost 70% of payment fraud. Modern tools like digital wallets, where Apple or Google pay generate unique codes for every single transaction, are way tougher to hack, but they're still tough to access for, say, older customers who don't use their phones for everything. There's even a push by banks to create a more uniform, seamless way of sending money between accounts where the sender would electronically confirm, yes, this is me. Yes, I meant to send this, but I if that customer doesn't want to download Zelle, do you really expect them to learn how to do that on their phone?

In the meantime, private companies will continue to evaluate what payments they'll accept. It's a moving target.

And like on the flip side of all this, I've heard someone say that when they were taking care of their mom as she got older, they've never had to sign so many checks in their life because some of these businesses that deal with older clienteles only want to deal with checks. So don't count on this changing anytime soon. More on all these stories@abcnews.com. or the ABC News app. I'm Brad Milke. See you tomorrow.