124: Raegan Moya-Jones | Co-Founder, Aden + Anais

Reagan Moya Jones
What do I need to be good at? To be great at something?

Carlea Milatzky
Hello, everyone. You are listening to. She leads with Carly. And in this show, we talk to the absolute best, brightest, and, yes, badass leaders. Tap into where your natural curiosity takes you.

Reagan Moya Jones
Just making sure you're not your own roadblock. Even if you do fall, you're gonna. Fall and you're gonna lure. Together, let's build a DNA of what it takes to rise to the top and truly make an impact.

Carlea Milatzky
I'm your host, Carlea Milatzky. Hello, everyone. I am super excited to welcome our guest today, Reagan Moya Jones. Reagan is the co founder and former CEO of Aiden and NNA, the baby lifestyle brand globally recognized for its high quality, design driven muslin, swaddles and baby products. Her success with Aiden and Anae earned her reputable awards, including being named as one of EY's entrepreneurs of the year.

Considered one of the most prestigious business awards in the world, Reagan has most recently co founded St. Luna, a premium moonshine brand that was released in the US in March of 2019. Aside from founding, Reagan sits on the board of directors for Hopeland, a non profit created to help children who are separated from their family. Reagan is also the author of what it takes. The story of her entrepreneurial journey from the kitchen table to a hundred million dollar global business.

And perhaps even more impressive than all of this, Reagan is the mother to four beautiful daughters. Reagan, I am so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome. Thank you, Carly. Lovely to be here.

Lovely to meet you. So, Reagan, what I love to do is I want to actually start from Reagan as a little girl, five years old, ten years old. Who was she? Who were you as a kid? I would say I was a very average kid.

Reagan Moya Jones
I grew up in a very working class household in Sydney, Australia. You know, went to public school, did all the things that kids in the seventies, which is really when I was raised, did, you know, played. Played with sticks and balls out on the cul de sac street, you know, out the front of my parents house. It was a. It was a simple time, but, yeah, I had a, you know, I had a very happy childhood.

You know, it was. It was pretty basic and just all about being with my family and my friends, really. And Reagan, growing up, did you love school? What type of student were you? Were you passionate about school or.

No, I did not like school. I was a bit of a rebel. School was a means to an end to me. I did get in a lot of trouble at school, which is something now with four daughters, I basically look them in the eye and lie about how I was as a student. But no, I was not a fan of school.

School was just an opportunity for me to be with my friends and hang out. Look, I did well in subjects, interestingly, where I liked and respected my teachers. And in the ones that I didn't, I was a problem child. The ones you're passionate about, you leaned. Into very much so.

Yeah. And it was very much about the teacher. You know, if I really liked the teacher, it could have been any subject that if I really liked my teacher and respected them, then I was all in. And that seemed to follow through, even through university. Right.

Carlea Milatzky
You ended up dropping out of university. How were. Yeah, so tell me about that. How were you thinking through almost long term, were you thinking about long term career where you wanted to be? Definitely not.

Reagan Moya Jones
I've kind of winged it my entire life. That's the way I roll. I was, I got into university despite having not tried very hard at school. And you have to remember in Australia, especially back in the eighties, when I went to university, it was not something that everyone did, like in the states, whereas I always say to my girls, you know, if you don't get a college degree, you're not going to get a job at Shake Shack Flivne burger. As Americans, it's just something that you have to do.

In Australia, it was definitely not like that. And it's still not as much like that as it is in the US. So I got into university. I didn't know what the hell I wanted to do. I just got into university.

So I ended up doing a communications degree. And I remember I was sitting on part of the university. I was sitting there with a group of people and some guy, I think he was premed, came up to me and said, oh, what are you doing? And I said, I'm doing a communications degree. And he looked at me and he said, oh, marriage 101.

And I went, what? And he goes, yeah, we call that marriage 101. What does that mean? He goes, well, all you going to be able to do when you graduate with that degree is get married. It's not good for anything.

And I went, huh, okay, well, that seems like a waste of four years. So then I don't even know how I got to that. Then I went, oh, well, I'm just going to drop out. And then I went and lived on an island with Sundays for a year, waitressing and bartending and having the time of my life. But that's what I did and I never went back or that's not true.

I did go back to formal education. Years later, I did a postgraduate degree. First of all, it's funny because him saying that, in my mind, I was like, wow, communication is so key to marriage. Maybe you're going to be a great wife, or. You know what I mean?

Carlea Milatzky
I thought that was the unlock, but definitely different. It was a dis, for sure. Yes. And given that you experienced, you went to Europe, you know, you were bartending, like you said. Where was that moment in your early career, early life, when you were like, okay, I need to start thinking about, what do I want to do long term, or I need to get a job that's probably more sustainable?

Reagan Moya Jones
That was really my dad who was calling me going, what the hell are you doing? You can't live on an island for the rest of your life. And I'm like, well, actually I can, but you probably don't. But it was my dad, and my dad was the australasian director for Pfizer. He was in pharmaceuticals and in sales.

He also was, I'd say, an entrepreneur. He had a business, went broke. So I probably got a little bit of that from my dad not going broke part, but the entrepreneurial part. And it was really. My dad started to get on me about, come on, it's time to think about what you're going to do.

And I honestly, Carly had no idea what I was going to do. So probably, again, slightly influenced by my dad, I just looked for a sales job and got into sales and that sort of was the start of what I would call my career. And I love highlighting this as well, just because, first of all, it's quite common, right? So many people around this age have no idea what. What they wanna do, or at least even more so on the surface, they act like they do, so then it stresses everyone else out.

Carlea Milatzky
Like, there's this interesting dynamic that happens, especially in the US and college and culture and everything. So I love that highlighting, it's just too much pressure. And for instance, my ex husband, he's an electronic engineer. That's what he went to school to do. He hated it.

Reagan Moya Jones
But his father was like, this is what you're going to do. And his brother's an engineer, he's a chemical engineer. So it was very much. They were very much pushed into that, so there was no question they were going to be engineers. Chile and engineering is more prestigious in Chile than doctors, lawyers.

So that was just what they had to do. But now, in his fifties, he says, I never really wanted to be an engineer. I was just told that's what I had to do. So my parents never sort of pushed. And, look, I'm in the same situation now with my four daughters.

I want them to do what they want to do, but they don't really, except for one, our second daughter, very clearly, she's studying veterinary science and everything, so she wants to be a vet. So that's very clear to the other three. Haven't got a clue, and it's hard. And not many 18 year old kids do know exactly what they want to do with the rest of their lives, so it's a lot of pressure. So around this time, or maybe even a few years later, who you mentioned your ex husband, but at the time, he was your boyfriend.

Carlea Milatzky
You end up. He needed to move to New York to open up a New York office. Right. And, wow, you really have done your research. I'm impressed.

So you end up going with him, and it seemed like it was actually a fairly easy decision for you. You visited New York. You were like, this is it. Loved New York the first time. One of my closest friends grew up in New York, in Queens, and we worked together in an advertising agency.

Reagan Moya Jones
And she was going back to New York, and she said, do you want to come? And I was like, absolutely. I was one of those people that the minute I was on the Triborough Bridge going into the city and I could see New York opening up in front of me, it just hit me like a lightning bolt. I was like, this is. This is where I belong.

I had that kind of reaction to New York. So when Marcos said to me, I've been offered this opportunity to go to New York for two years and do this, and we'd only been dating for about a year, he said, you know, I'll take it if you come, and if you don't. Like, I think this might be something between us. I won't. When?

Are you kidding? Bags are packed, and off we went. And two years turned into 24 and four american daughters, and that was sort of how it all played out. Can you walk me through that process? Because there was even that little bit of a time period before you ended up at the Economist.

Carlea Milatzky
You worked in sales for a good chunk of that early career before founding Aidan and Na, which we'll get into. But how did you ultimately traverse through that? How did you navigate? Okay, let me find this career. New York specifically, was tough because I just packed up and went over there.

Reagan Moya Jones
I had no visa. We weren't married, so I couldn't work in New York without a visa. I couldn't work in the US without a visa. Turns out that the australian consulate is considered a part of Australia, so you don't need to actually have a visa as an Aussie to work in the australian consulate. So I ended up just getting a job at the consulate doing data entry, which I hated so much.

So I used to bring it home at night and make Marcos do half of it, because I was like, this is hell. I didn't know that, actually. I don't think I've ever admitted that out loud in all the interviews I've done, but that is actually the truth. I bring home reams and go, can you just enter that for me? Because, you know, I can't be bothered.

So I did that. And then I met a friend, interestingly, who ended up being the co founder of Aidan and a Claudia, which that didn't go well. And I became friends with Claudia because she was the ex girlfriend of Marcos's best friend in Australia and the only person we knew in New York. And Claude's worked for a company called IIR, which is a conference company. They put on conferences.

Anyway, very long story short, Claudia helped me get a job with IIR and they actually. And this is probably illegal, but whatever it was 25 years ago, they allowed me to work there whilst they were going through the process of getting my h one B visa. Got it. So I worked there for about nine months without being paid whilst the visa was being, you know, processed. And then once I got the visa, they backdated all my pay.

Carlea Milatzky
Got it. So ultimately, what. What landed the economist? How did you navigate that and find that job? One of the girls that worked at IIR, Christina, who ended up being an investor, early investor in Aidan and an a.

Reagan Moya Jones
Now I'm saying this, it's like, oh, wow, what a small little circle it was, really. So Christina, who became a good friend, she had moved over to the economist, because the economist had a conference group as well. They used to put on government roundtables and industry specific. So we moved over to the conference division of the Economist newspaper. So that's how I moved over.

Carlea Milatzky
And you worked, like you said, you worked in sales. My hunch, given everything else that you've ended up doing afterwards, is that sales actually came quite naturally to you. Is that true? Yes, very naturally. I was, at the risk of sounding obnoxious, I was very good at it.

Reagan Moya Jones
I made lots of money for the companies that I worked for. So, yes, I was always successful in the sales roles that I was in. And I'd love for you to talk through your experience at the Economist. Most notably, I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially women, woman in sales, whatever it may be, in that this was maybe the first time in your career where you experienced, you were seeing your success. And it was very evident, although you weren't getting, whether it's promotion, you weren't getting rewarded for it internally.

Carlea Milatzky
Can you talk a bit through that and how you. Whether it's advice for others to navigate through that? Well, sadly, it wasn't the first time. So I really experienced it. I worked for Schwarzkopf in Australia, which is a hair, big hair care brand out of Germany.

Reagan Moya Jones
And I remember distinctly talking again, I was the top salesperson, always very successful salesperson, and I was talking to my boss about the fact that I didn't want to just be the sales rep forever and wanted to do something more. And he said to me, if you want to be taken seriously, Reagan, then you need to start wearing longer skirts. Wow. Yeah. So I, you know, I could, like, write a book about all that.

I'm sure most of us women can. And to be clear, you know, it was you. I'm gonna age myself now, but there was a show called Ally McBeal. I don't know if you know. There you go.

So it was a very famous show back in the, I think, the early nineties. And her look, she was a lawyer, and her look was, you know, a suit jacket and sort of shorter skirts. It was the look then. So, you know, it wasn't like I was wearing micro type, micro minis. I was wearing what?

Carlea Milatzky
Professional. So, but I remember being so pissed off that he said that I was like, oh, what hope do I have here? And so started looking elsewhere and then ended up in pharmaceuticals. But, yes, exactly. The fast forward to the economist, which was probably, I don't know, 810 years later.

Reagan Moya Jones
And the same thing every time. I said, look, I don't really want to just keep doing this forever. And that I was always met for. No, you know, this is where we see you. This was, it was just very obvious to me that there wasn't a career trajectory for me at the Economist.

So that's when I started to really think hard about if I'm going to be taken seriously, going to have to do something myself, because I don't fit the mold either of a serious career person. I I always had fun at work. I never took myself seriously. I was not somebody that was in awe of hierarchy. And I would talk to the CEO of the Economist exactly the same way as I would talk to the lady who used to come into my office at night to clean, it was just the way I was raised.

Humans are humans. Good for you for being the CEO, but the respect I give you is exactly the same as respect that I give the cleaning lady, which is what I moved into the culture of Aidan and Na, which I firmly believe is why that business was as successful as it was. And even I want to note, too, it wasn't a matter of you not advocating for yourself. You were confident enough to have those conversations, but it was. It became a point where it just was out of your control.

Carlea Milatzky
Right. So obvious. Yeah, like that. It was just. I remember meeting with one of the managers.

Reagan Moya Jones
There was a. I can't even remember what the role was, but it was obviously a step up from where I was. And I was having breakfast with him, and he goes, look, you just don't have the qualifications. I go, what qualification? He goes, we don't have a degree.

I said, well, I have a. I have a master's. I have a. I didn't do the undergraduate degree. And I can.

But what does it matter? You could. The results that you can clearly see, shouldn't that count for more than the piece of paper that someone got 15 years ago? I don't get it. But it was just never going to happen.

And again, I get that I'm not easy to understand and I guess put in that box of managerial material, I guess, but it was. It was very frustrating nonetheless. That frustration combined with you had your first daughter, and tell me a little bit about that unlock, and ultimately, you know, what became Aiden and Ana. Tell me a little bit about that origin story and that unlock of saying, you know what, there's something here. While you were working at the economist.

Well, first and foremost, I was never having children. So the jokes on me that I ended up with four and then running a global baby product business, so that's just hysterical in itself. Oh, my God. If I. If you spoke to any of my high school friends, they would be like, Reagan will be the least likely person to have children.

Carlea Milatzky
Was that because you were just. Was it career driven like you wanted to do your. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I was.

Reagan Moya Jones
Quite honestly, I was a bit of a party girl. You know, I was just all about having fun and traveling and I guess, very living late, and I knew that kids was going to be about the kids, so. And I just. I wasn't maternal. I was never the girl that would see a cute baby.

Oh, cute baby. You know, I was like, oh, God, that looks like a lot of work to me, you know, sort of thing. And in fairness, children didn't really like me either. It was a mutual dislike of each other, which changed very much. And then as my.

As my closest friends started to have children, it was. My relationship with kids changed because I loved them, because they were, you know, the people that I loved. Is this early thirties, to give context around your early thirties? Yes, early. Well, I had my.

I had an a. I had an a at 36, so I had my babies later because I wasn't planning on having babies. And then one day I just went, you know what? Actually, I don't really want to be sitting around the holidays on my own. Like, the idea of having a family around me.

And then once I had an a, initially, I was like, what the hell have I done? I actually said to my ex husband, my husband at that point, obviously, oh, my God, I've made the worst mistake. This is not for me. I need to give it back. And Marcos went, give it back to who?

I go, I don't know. And it was definitely. I definitely had postpartum, so it was a really big thing, you know, the baby. I clearly got over it and then had three more, so then the girls. And being a mother, truly just.

I would go as far as to say it saved me, because it gave me a real purpose that I didn't realize I needed. So it was, you know, the greatest thing that I ever did in my life was have my girls. So ultimately founding Aidan and inane, you realize there was a gap in the us market. So take me through that. Yes.

So how that happened very quickly. My sister, my younger sister had had my nephew Rio, six months before I had an a. So I was watching Paige's journey with Rio. And we're very close, super close, even though we were living on the other side of the world. And every time I would talk to her, she would have these muslin, pieces of muslin, which were just white cotton and shoes.

She used ten of them a day to swaddle into. Now Muslin. Talking about it now, every mum pretty much knows what Muslin is, but no one in America knew what it was before Aidan and a came along. So, Paige, I said, can you send me some of those over? Because you can't get them here?

So Paige sent me a pack of four white ones. And then when I had an a, I also used them in the same way. And I just thought, every Aussie parent can't have this wrong, that we can't live without these things. So I'm sure if I introduced them to the US, american parents would feel the same way. Then I went, they don't just have to be white.

I could make them beautiful as well and put designs on them, because they were a very utilitarian, simple, four white ones that came in a cellophane pack. No one had sort of turned it into a design driven sort of idea. So that was really how it happened. And then I just went about trying to work out how the hell to make them, because I had no textile experience, I had no business experience other than sales. And, Reagan, can you just highlight a little bit about what did your day look like?

Carlea Milatzky
Right. Your day job. You have a new baby, and then you're obviously starting a company. What? Tell me a little bit about the hours and how, I imagine, exhausted you were.

Reagan Moya Jones
Yeah, it was crazy. And I do. Look, people say to me, how did you do it? Especially as I kept having children and kept going, you know, how did I do it? I just.

I was extremely passionate about what I was doing because. Not just because I wanted to build the business, which was very much a driving force, because I needed to prove to myself and all these people that kept telling me that you're just good as the salesperson, that I was actually capable of a whole lot more. And it was really the passion for what I was doing and this really strong desire to prove to myself that I could do it and to others, me, first and foremost, but definitely to all the people that had told me, no, you can't, sort of thing. So that's really what drove me through the absolute insanity of juggling everything that I was juggling. So, yeah, it was.

I would get up, I would obviously deal with a name, do the mum stuff in the morning. Then I would go to what I used to call my real job at the economist. I would do that. Then I would come home. I would be with Anae once I got home, and then once Anae was in bed, that's when I would focus on Aidan and Anay.

So I really built Aidan and Anay in the middle of the night for the first three, four years. And, yeah, I would work from sort of an a, would go down about 730, and then I would work until probably three every morning. So social life, all of that was scrapped as quickly as overnight. Is that. That's what it seems.

Carlea Milatzky
But how would you balance that? Was there a balance? I always found time to have a drink with my friends. I don't remember ever going, I can't do this. Look, when you're a new mom, and you're with a newborn, and the baby's a little, you know, the focus is very much your children and your family anyway.

Reagan Moya Jones
It's not like you're out every, every night. And that was, I think that that also was part of a little bit of the postpartum for me, mind you, when Anai was newborn, I, it was such early stages of Aidan, and it was concept, and I was just trying to work out how to do it. So it wasn't, it was when lodest our second daughter was born that it really started to become that madness of working into the middle of the night or early morning and stuff. Yeah. And there was one, seems like one very key metric that you established for yourself in order for you to confidently say, okay, I'm leaving the economist, I'm leaving my real job, and I'm going to do this full time.

Carlea Milatzky
What was that, and what was the logic behind it? I had read statistically that only 2% of all women owned businesses ever get to a million dollars in revenue. So I sort of just, I took that on. And then I remember sitting in my office at the economist and pulling up numbers, going, wow, we've got to a million in revenue. And I'm just doing this on the side.

Reagan Moya Jones
And that statistically is not very common. So once I did that, then I started to think, maybe this could be something that I could really turn into something. And that was then the motivation to have the courage to leap. And Reagan, first of all, what I love so much, whether you realize it or not, is, I think the concept of proving people wrong is such a strong motivator. And it seemed like it came up, you know, I even think of my own, you know, soccer journey in college and whatnot.

Carlea Milatzky
Like, that was even just having a, excuse my language, like, f you, you know, in my mind, to people, absolutely. It's a really strong motivator. So I just love that you shared that through your own process and whatnot. So that's great. And, okay, let's get into what seems like that first big hiccup in the road is maybe what we like to call it with your co founder, Claudia.

You mentioned that obviously, you know, you guys went into it as best friends. Maybe skills wise, you actually overlapped a good amount with marketing and sales. But then, excellent point. But then ultimately, why? What did you learn from it and what ended up happening?

Reagan Moya Jones
Well, it was horrible. So, because I lost a friend out of it, and I speak very candidly about being very careful with who you go into business with. And if you do go into business with friends and family, make sure that everything is on the table from the get go, so there's no grey area. And when I say that, I mean legally, make sure everyone understands where everyone stands. That said, I don't think you can fully protect yourself from what could come down the road when you're working with friends and family.

But that's an aside. So it was. It was very much. I think it was the disparity between our financial situation. So Claudia and her husband were very financially successful.

Marcos and I, we were doing fine, but we were nowhere in their league. So I think what happened, and to this day, I maintain that, I think, was primarily his husband, that was the driving force of this isn't right that we're funding it much more than they are. Now, to be clear, every check they wrote into the business was at 10% interest. It was not like they were, you know, so. But it just.

And I understand it. I'm not. I'm not sitting in judgment as to why it happened, why she did what she did. But the very long story short was, I think, that they were very frustrated that I couldn't keep up financially, and it was getting to the point where the business was needing more and more money. We were borrowing money off Mark's father, you know, $250,000 we'd borrowed off them.

Again, the business at which I knew I was responsible for half off, but I think that was sort of the. The beginning of the end. And, yeah, it just got. It just got very ugly and horrible. And it got to a point where essentially irreparable, in a way.

Carlea Milatzky
Right. Like, it was a very clean. Okay. Oh, no, it was far from clean, Carly. It was horrendous, but it was.

Reagan Moya Jones
And I talk about it in detail in the book, but. And I do that because I want other entrepreneurs to really think long and hard about who they're going into business with. And when I do still talk to entrepreneurs and advise them and everything they ask me, I said, look, it's a lonely thing founding a business on your own, and you're tempted to have that person to. But my advice would be, if you can do it on your own, then do it. And if not, make sure that you still have the controlling interest in your business, if it's your idea and everything.

So there's ways to sort of limit the risks. Right. And that notion will come up again when we talk about, ultimately, the end of your, at least, involvement in Aidan and a. But before that, actually, even real quick on choosing a co founder, because I think it's such an important part of the journey and I obviously see it a lot through my job. And I'm curious, what are your thoughts of the people who, the founders who actually want a co founder because they need that complementary skill set.

Carlea Milatzky
Skill set. Whether it's technical skills, but that actual, you know, relationship comes a bit artificially or at least like, you know, you seek it out. How do you. Do you have thoughts on that? Yeah, you mean the people?

Reagan Moya Jones
I've seen that. Very interesting to me, actually, when I. Because I've noticed that on LinkedIn and. And things like that, people are actually advertising for a co founder. What are you doing?

You know, this is a. This is such another level because of the unknown of the person. I guess it's like hiring somebody and you can get it right. But yeah, it's a look, even. And I think the biggest thing with Claude's and I was that we did have complimentary skills.

She was definitely more marketing, I was more sales. But that's very intertwined. Right. Whereas if she was a finance guru and I was the sales and marketing girl, or the other way around, that might work differently when you're bringing different skill sets to the table from the beginning. So I think that's key, but you just can't predict how people are going to act and behave.

And I honestly believe that if I didn't have control of Aidan and Aiden and Nay wouldn't have been what Aiden and nay was. Absolutely. Because I didn't have to ask anybody what their opinion was, mind you, I did. I ran a very. The culture was.

It was very inclusive, sort out everybody's opinion. But ultimately, it was my decision in the end. And I think when you've got an equal founder and everything is. What do you think? What do you think becomes quite a battle.

And I'm not sure that you get the best results from that. I am 100% sure there'll be people listening to this going, she's wrong. I know these two partners that work brilliantly together, but I'd say that it wouldn't be the norm. Absolutely. I think at the end of the day, every which way, I can say the same thing with, you know, friends who started, husband and wife who started, like, at the end of the day, I think there are stats probably that back everything up.

Carlea Milatzky
But I think, sure, it works for some people, right? Like, there's a different recipe for everyone to find that success. But I think from your lessons, it's totally valid. And understandable. And I do think it's about the lanes.

Reagan Moya Jones
Right. So if you've got two founders, equal founders, I'm talking fifties. So you have equal say if one person is the tech guru and the other person is the marketing guru, and you stay in your lanes and you're not trying to tell the tech guru as the marketing person what they should be doing and vice versa, I think that's different. But Claudia and I, we played in the same sandbox, so it was tough. Absolutely.

Carlea Milatzky
You even mentioned this before, but the importance of people, and I want you to talk a little bit about, one, how you, you know, you obviously grew Aidan and NNA to over $100 million business, which is incredible. And with that comes a lot of growing pains. Right. Whether it's hiring, delegation, you know, kind of relinquishing control to others in terms of, like, kind of hoping that your vision gets translated well to them. So talk me through a little bit of.

Of your mindset and your process for hiring people and how you evaluated their skills, rather than maybe someone else would. In the very early stages, everyone I hired was somebody that I knew or I'd worked with effectively or somebody who I knew who then brought in somebody they knew. So the initial sort of, I'd say dozen people, it was very, you know, there was a bit, I guess, form of nepotism. Okay, so. But it was.

Reagan Moya Jones
It was based on, I knew their work ethic. I knew them, who they were as people. It was so I knew that. And they weren't necessarily coming in with the skills of the role that I needed them to fill at the time. So that that was sort of how it started.

And then as we grew, I realized that that really was the key to hire. And I've been challenged on this like minded people, and people have said to me, well, you just wanted to hire everybody like you. And I said, no, no. There was huge diversity in our company.

It was more about the core human features that I cared very much about, which was, you know, kindness, humor, work ethic, you know, into just basic intelligence. Not necessarily, you know, academic or specific. Intelligence that people like to collect. Exactly. I didn't.

I never even looked at where anyone went to school. I didn't care. I would meet them if they were good people, if I knew that they would fit culturally into the group that we already had then. And I got the sense that they were hardworking. And you can usually tell that if somebody has had a retail or worked in a fast food restaurant while they're at school, anyone who does that.

You go, okay, they're workers. Yeah. So I looked for the human traits rather than the specific skill sets of roles. That was the unlock for the early stages. Right.

Carlea Milatzky
Like, how do you scale that? How do you. You can't meet everyone that you're hiring as you grow. How did you. Yeah, how did you scale?

Reagan Moya Jones
I did for a very long time, because the culture was so extraordinarily important to me. As we got bigger and bigger, like, I. I would. The managers who were hiring for their team, they would obviously do all the groundwork, but because I put people in that I trusted, and I knew that they understood the fundamental culture of Aidan and Na and what was extraordinarily important to me in terms of hiring, then they were looking for those similar kinds of people, and then I would just come in and, you know, they would go, we just need the Reagan, you know, final stamp of approval on these people. And sometimes I would say, I don't.

I just don't think this person will be a good. I would get a gut feeling feel, and they would go back to the drawing board, and they trusted, so. But then as we got bigger, and quite honestly, once private equity got in and started to get involved and everything, then it all went to shit, because they cared very much about the piece of paper and where people were from and what their credentials were, and that was the house of cards moment. That's when it all started to go pear shaped. So let's get into that, because I know you've had, you know, your fair share of experiences where having a PE.

Carlea Milatzky
Private equity firm invest you first. It was actually a very positive experience. From my understanding, extraordinarily positive. And then. So take me through kind of that experience, and then ultimately another PE fund comes into the mix, and that's where kind of shit hits the fan, you know?

So walk me through that and, yeah, we'll get into that a little. So, initially, you know, most entrepreneurs know that one of the toughest things you're ever going to do, especially as a woman, which I didn't realize at the time, that after writing my book and researching for my book, I realized, I think I probably had as hard a time as I did because I had boobs, you know, so I was trying to raise money, and it was extraordinarily tough. So. So I was scratching and clawing for a very long time. I was borrowing money off friends and family at 10% interest.

Reagan Moya Jones
Anybody who would write me a check just to keep the lights on, because we were growing so fast, I couldn't keep up with the growth. By the way, what were investors saying to you? They didn't believe in the product. They didn't. I mean, I'm guessing they were mostly men, but.

Carlea Milatzky
Yeah. What was the response? Given that the metrics were there? Yeah, I don't. In all honesty, I don't remember.

Reagan Moya Jones
I just remember a lot of no's. That's what I remember from banks for even getting a. And all these, you know, small business loans and everything. I never had any luck with any of them. It was like the process of trying to get them, and then it was always a no.

I was like, this is some bullshit. Like, I don't know what this is about. But anyway, so that's when I turned to family and friends, and I was taking $40,000 checks, I was taking $250,000. Anything anyone would write me, I was like, please, you know, so I can keep the lights on. So I did that for a long time, and then, very serendipitous, because I'm going to go on the record here and say that I do think building successful businesses, there is a huge element of luck, serendipity being in the right place at the right time.

I don't care what anyone says. That is a factor for success. There's no doubt in my mind. So when it came to the money side of things, one of my early investors in Aidan A, who came in when Claudia and I broke up, and so I didn't have the money to buy out her 50% share. So I had to go to my friends and say, so they wrote, you know, they wrote checks into the business.

So one of my early investors who, very good friend, I'm the godmother of one of their children, her husband worked for Credit Suisse at the time. He knew these investors that he said are just such good people. In all of the people that he met in that space, he goes, these are the good guys. He said I was a rounding error to them. So he didn't at the time, think they would write a check, but they just.

He just reached out to them for me and said, look, this very good friend needs some help. You know, the business is growing incredibly fast, and she's struggling to fund it. Keep up with it. Yeah. And so, long story short, that was sidelor equity partners.

They're out of California. I met Bob and Matt, who are the Sadlers, two of the founding partners. Well, Bob is, and Matt came in much later, but they, again, long story short, we just hit it off and they ended up writing me a check, and again, a rounding error check in the sense I was not a normal investment for them. But we, I would say we just had a connection, you know? And we, to this day, I'm still good friends with them.

And they. They kind of saved me at that point. And they were extremely extraordinarily great partners. They let me. They left me alone to run the business.

And I guess now saying that, and I've never actually thought about this before either, the fact that we were a rounding error was probably had something to do with the fact that they were very comfortable, like, letting me go. So that was an extraordinary partnership for a few years. And then they were the ones who said to me, look, you know, I was paying myself no money. I was only paying myself enough to pay my nannies. I was paying everybody else around me more than me, you know, and they basically said to me, why don't you take some chips off the table?

And I was so naive, I didn't even know you could do that. I didn't know, like, I could sell the business, buy back into the business so that I could have a second bite of the cherry, but take enough money off to buy my apartment, put money away from my kids for school, you know, just set myself up financially. So I did that, and that's when Swanda Pace came in, who were the complete antithesis of, like, just hell. Like, I go back to that day and go, oh, my gosh, if I could change one moment in my life, I have no regrets, but I totally regret bringing them into the business. Looking back now, even when you look at that, is it a clear difference between the two?

Carlea Milatzky
Like, what would you. Would you do some due diligence difference or. Yes, two things. I've written about this, too. There were two things.

Reagan Moya Jones
Two things again. And in my naivete, and I just want to go and finish up on side let equity, I say that, you know, I was a rounding error. But I have introduced them to other entrepreneurs, you know, much bigger. You know, they're a billion dollar fund and all the rest of it, and they treat all of their portfolio partners, company partners, and founders and everything the same way as they treat me. So it was not.

It was that. That was just who they were as people and the way they ran their business. So I've talked about this many times with them, and we invest in the founders. They will walk away from a business that they know could be financially successful if they don't feel good about the person that's running it. So they invest in the people and their vision as much as they do the balance sheet.

Carlea Milatzky
So they had a track record to prove that out. Track record and continue to, if you look up, if you look up cyber equity, there is nothing but great things out there. They just don't get it wrong. You know, they're an extra, extraordinarily successful fund, Swanda. So.

Reagan Moya Jones
And the thing that kills me, and I speak openly about it because I refuse to sign, you know, what's it called? NDA. NDAs. And when they fired me, I've refused. I was like, no, I'm going to tell the truth.

Carlea Milatzky
Which, by the way, I just want to, I just want to even caveat this. This with is one, it is so much more common than people, how you were treated. But what's so incredibly unique, and I'm so like, I just feel lucky to have you share this here, is that you're actually the few that do share it. It's just not that open. But it is so common because there's a lot associated with it.

Reagan Moya Jones
So anyway, continue. And I'm glad you raised that because the two points that are reasons why people won't speak openly about it first is they sign an NDA to get a payout. And I told them to shove the NDA where the sun don't shine. I was like, there's no amount of money that is going to stop me from telling other entrepreneurs this story. And the other thing, especially as women, because I know this is true because I try not to read reviews, but I have read some reviews.

Oh, she's just an angry bitch who stuffed up her job, her business, and she's trying to blame other people. So I know. And again, especially for women, when you say you were fired from your own company, people instantly go to, she must have made an absolute mess of that, you know, so there's the embarrassment of it. Whereas I guess I'm confident enough in myself that I know the truth. The people who lived it with me know the truth, and that's enough for me.

So if people beyond that want to form an opinion, that's fine with me. But I was so adamant to tell the truth about what happened. And what's also interesting is how many people have come out of the woodwork since I wrote that book and said that happened to me. Even people who worked with Swander, they're like, I wish someone had told me, you know, so the point of it was to get the truth out so that I could avoid this happening to other entrepreneurs if I could. So, so, yes, so they came in, we just didn't see eye to eye at all about the way forward with the business.

I was, again, back to the, my early career days. I was very easy to write off and put into a box of university dropout. You know, they went to Stanford, Yale, all these places. So in their mind, you know, what does she know? How could she know more than me?

But I could fundamentally see what they were doing and where it was going. But to answer your question, the two things I wish I had have done, and anyone, any entrepreneur who goes through a process to sell their company, I wish I had asked them how many of their portfolio companies still have the founder that they bought in with, running, or even involved. And it turned out that there was pretty much none. So had I have asked that one question, the writing would have been on the wall, you know, at the time because they obviously tell you exactly what you want to hear when they're trying to buy your company from you. And then the second thing was the debt.

You know, like, they were just all about debt and putting so much debt on the company. And, you know, when we buy other companies, it would always be with debt, not equity. And that was, if I had have known that that was, which is very pe, for the most part, and very unsightly. So I hadn't seen, seen that with the sidelers. Those two things would have been huge red flags and probably would have changed my decision of who I went with.

Carlea Milatzky
And so you get fired as a CEO, as the founder, always the founder, but as CEO, remind ourselves, you know, this is your baby. This is what you built. You know, it was entirely you that created this incredible company. And again, you're kind of just, there was a period where, you know, you weren't CEO, but you were still involved. I want to talk a little bit about that period afterwards, right.

That, you know, like most people probably do, they go into a really hard place in life. You know, what's my purpose? Who am I? Talk through that experience and what ultimately got you out of it that others can take away as well? Absolutely horrible.

Reagan Moya Jones
And I definitely did throw myself into a very huge vat of wine for a number of years where I wasn't really doing well at all. They had absolutely knocked all the confidence out of me, no matter how hard I tried to fight that it was my fault. And I. Because even before they fired me, you know, they were telling me things like, you know, you're not capable of taking this to the next level. We need to hire a superstar CEO.

You don't know what you're doing, your message, there was a lot of that before they ultimately said, you're fired. So I'd been beaten down. So that was very hard. So I had all that. So my confidence was definitely shocked.

You start questioning your decisions, how you got there, what you could have done differently. So it was a really tough time. Then a couple of years after that global pandemic, then I go, all right, we're going to move the family back to Australia from there. So it was a chaotic time. So it's been, what?

So it's been six years. Six years in March that I got fired. So. And it's really taken me. Up until about a year ago, I'd say that I felt firmly planted with both feet on the ground.

And a lot of that had to do with the fact that I was also trying to keep my daughter's heads above water, moving them to the other side of the world. I went through a divorce. I had a lot of personal stuff going on. So it was the combination of having been shook to the core of being pushed out of my own business, watching, quite honestly, what they were doing to the business, which was exactly what I said would happen if they kept going in the direction that they did. So that was brutal, especially given I still had many millions of dollars invested in it, which all went away because they, you know, stuffed it up.

And so that was hard. So I lost millions from afar. That was brutal. And, yes, so there was a whole lot going on. So it took a while.

How did I get out of it? Now I'm going to sound very woo woo. But I hired a life coach who saved me. I did. Rachel, look at you.

You are such a good researcher. And she saved me and did a lot of reading, started to sort of try and as Rachel always says to me, change the channel, Reagan. All you have to do is change the channel. Because I went from going, I'm a loser. Look at what happened.

You know, I'd be watching all these other entrepreneurs, and a lot of them, friends of mine, just, you know, do incredible things. It was very hard, you know, and I just kept thinking to myself, you're such a loser, you know, how could this happen? And she kept saying to me, focus on all the great things you did and know that. So it was a process that I started to work on that, read a lot of books, just started to work on getting my confidence back, because for whatever reason, everybody around me just keeps saying to me, the minute you decide to do the next thing, it's going to be successful, because that's just who you are. That I had to find me again, and that took a lot and a long time.

And I'm not. I wouldn't say that I'm 100% back, but I say 90, 90% back. So I'm finally sort of definitely wasn't ready to retire, even though I was very fortunate in that I did make. Make a lot of money, even from the first sale, even after losing it. So, you know, I'm not.

I'm very grateful for that. That I, you know, Aidan and a did afford me financial freedom, but it was. It's so much more than the money. So much more. And first, I'm just like, thank you.

Carlea Milatzky
I'm so happy that you shared that process. Right. And I think you just highlighted it, but you were hit from so many different angles. Whether it's personal life, you know, your baby, your first baby with Aiden and anay, like, the company you built and seeing, you know, what ended up happening afterwards, all of these aspects. I love what Rachel said.

Change the channel. I'm going to use that because I think that is so powerful and so. Easy to remember in the moment as you're going down that horrible rabbit hole. Right. If you can just go stop this.

Reagan Moya Jones
I can think this rather than this. It's a very powerful tool, and it. Just highlights the power of our thoughts. Like, we can easily go down these terrible rabbit holes and say, you know, you're a loser. All of these things that we're fed, whether we're actually fed it or not, it's so easy to go down it.

Carlea Milatzky
So I really love that message. And tell me a little now, what does today look like for Reagan and what are you excited about? As I said, I'm finally back in the room after, you know, being gone for half a decade, and I've just started working on a new business, actually. I sound like such a hypocrite now with two of my oldest friends who I went to school with, although it was. It's.

Reagan Moya Jones
The idea was his in terms of. He's been in the grocery industry for a lot of years and has been wanting me to help him do something in the states. So we've just founded a new company called Wild Taste Australia, which is gourmet salts and everything. We're going to New York to do. This is the first time I've talked about it.

We're going to New York to do our first trade show in June. So that's all very imminent. So I'm excited about that. And then I am working on actually getting back into some form of muslin. I get a lot of people asking me to do the bigger adult blankets.

And Christina, my old pr agent, who is now a very good friend, and I were drinking wine together, actually, in your neck of the woods last year. And she's like, everybody keeps asking me, when's Reagan going to do those blankets again? And then we realized that the babies that were wrapped in Aiden and anay, like, her son's just gotten into college. He's a basketball player. He's just gone into a division one school.

And they take their aiden in an a blanket with them because they love it. Like, these are six foot eight men now. But Christina and I worked out that the kids that were wrapped in Aiden and an a are now going to college. So I'm like, well, how cool is that? They can take their, their adults muslin blankets?

So anyway, I'm working on that and that'll be fun. So, Regan, are you saying then that Prince George will likely be repping a new muslin blanket from you? Hopefully. That would be awesome. Yeah, that's incredible.

Carlea Milatzky
Okay, so given all of these experiences, these founding journeys, if you will, that you've taken on and that you are taking on now, what aspects of yourself have you learned most strongly? That you've taken, that you've learned at each, or at least at this step, but from your whole experience? Well, I'd say that you can get knocked down. That resilience and hard work is what really matters, you know? So I think.

Reagan Moya Jones
I like to think that I won't be. And again, this is sounding obnoxious, and it's not meant to come out this way, but that I won't be remembered for Aidan and Anaiah. I'll be remembered for the story of being. Falling into that very deep, dark hole and climbing back out of it and then accomplishing what's next and having four daughters. They've seen it.

They've lived it firsthand with me. They've seen me fall into that hole. They've seen their mum struggling. They've seen her go from this super high to this horrible low. So it's my job as their mum now to show them that you can get back to that super high and beyond.

So I'm very much motivated by doing that for my daughters now. Whereas before, it was to prove to myself that I could. So I kind of ticked that box. Whereas now my real motivation is to show my daughters. You can.

You can fall into the hole, but get yourself back out of it. And let me just say I love how at one point, even in this conversation, you were talking about how you didn't have maternal instincts and you didn't want to have kids. And now your whole, you know, that mission and that underlying drive really stems from being that role model for them. So I love that. And so let's go into more fun questions, if you will.

Carlea Milatzky
Fun for me, but let's see. So I'm actually so curious. Do you meditate and do you do some form of affirmations? Like, what does that look like in your life? If so, yes.

Reagan Moya Jones
So that was very much a learned practice after I. After I fell into the hole. So I'd never, never done it. I'd never meditated. What is very interesting, having gone through this journey of the last five years.

And becoming a much more spiritual person, is that I look retrospectively at my life and the way I built Aidan. And a. And I was. I was manifesting. I was.

I was actually drawing all of this great energy. To me, it was that it was happening organically without me really understanding what it was. And the dilemma I have now is that now I'm so consciously aware of that energy transfer. And I realized for the past five years that I've been drawing all the shit to me because it's been my energy. So I'm like, I've stayed in that dark place rather than.

And I knew I was doing it. I knew I was dragging it to me, but I couldn't. I couldn't get out of it. So, you know, now I've brought the light back in, and I'm finally starting to see my life change because of it. I watch it happen.

It's a very real thing, you know? So I do meditate. When I meditate, it's always a very positive thing. I'm bad. I, like, I'm sort of full on, and then I get distracted, and then I don't meditate for a while, and then I go, oh, my God, why aren't I meditating?

Because, like, when I do, everything is so much better. So, yes, I did. Myself and my second eldest daughter, before we left New York, we did transcendental meditation course, which was the real. That was the real start of my meditation journey. And I even.

Carlea Milatzky
I want people to realize, too, that most people have that experience. But I think the experience, meaning, you know, thoughts come in, distractions, everything. But a lot of people actually reach the conclusion, meditation is not for me, you know, where I think. I think that's not necessarily true. It's more of just like accepting the thoughts going through that process.

Reagan Moya Jones
But, well, the notion of being able to have no thoughts for 20 minutes is ridiculous. You can't not have. That's why I would encourage anyone who's listening to this who says, oh, I can't meditate, or it's not for me, learn transcendental meditation, because it's kind of like the gateway to meditation. And the process makes it simple. When I realized it wasn't about not thinking anything for 20 minutes, that changed everything for me, because I'm such a wired person at a million miles an hour, that's why I didn't think I could meditate either.

But once you really understand it, it's a game changer. Regan, what craft are you spending a lifetime honing? I want to say drinking champagne. Extremely. Podcast that I've listened to, I feel like you've honed that.

I have honed that. So, okay, we'll go in a different direction. I would say happiness, happiness, being happy, living in the moment, you know, that that is new to me. So I was never satisfied with what I had. I always was.

Not from a materialistic standpoint, but just like I needed to prove I could do more, be more, acquire more, be more successful. Like, for instance, with these new business ideas that I'm starting to work on, it took me some time to realize that it's okay if they're not another hundred million dollar business. It's okay because I've set the bar for myself here, you know? So I was like, well, could that be a $200 million business? Could that be a $300 million business?

Now, I'm not saying that that's not still my goal to make these more successful than Aiden and nay, but I've given myself the freedom for them not to be. And that, that is very freeing. When you go, it's okay if this only becomes a $20 million bill. That's not a failure. That's, that's still okay.

So I would say what I'm still trying to hone is that, like, the, the living in the moment and the definition of happiness. Yeah. Wow. I love that. I love that so much.

Carlea Milatzky
Reagan, I could talk to you probably for another at least 2 hours. It has been such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for coming and sharing your absolutely inspiring story. I absolutely loved it. Thank you for having me.

Reagan Moya Jones
It's been great. Thanks. Carly, thank you so much for listening to the show this week. If you enjoyed, please spread the word. Tell someone about she leads or post about it on social media and tag us if you want to contact us.

Carlea Milatzky
Feel free to send over message through the she leads Instagram pagehebleeads show. If you want to follow us on Twitter, our account is she leads show and mine is arleigh Milatsky. This episode was produced and edited by Nick Firchau. Thank you. Also to our partner floodgate.

If you are passionate about startups and want to learn more about the starting journey of those who have built groundbreaking companies, I highly recommend listening to starting greatness with Mike Maples Junior, the founding partner of Floodgate. He has an incredible show that, in my opinion, is definitely worth your time. Thanks again.

124: Raegan Moya-Jones | Co-Founder, Aden + Anais

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