Mission Im-Ponzi Scheme w/ Kate Willett

This episode explores the intriguing world of Ponzi schemes through a comedic lens, featuring guest comedian Kate Willett.

1. Ponzi schemes and scams often exploit emotional vulnerability.
2. Cult-like organizations can disguise themselves as self-help groups.
3. The entertainment industry, particularly acting schools, can have cult-like dynamics.
4. Personal vigilance and skepticism are crucial when approached with too-good-to-be-true opportunities.
5. Humor can be a powerful tool in discussing and understanding scams.

1: Introduction

Laci Mosley introduces the podcast and guest Kate Willett, setting the stage for a discussion on scams. Laci Mosley: "Welcome back to the show where we dive into the messiest of scams!"

2: Kate's Experience

Kate shares her personal stories related to scams, especially her encounters with cult-like groups. Kate Willett: "I almost joined a cult thinking it was just a self-help group!"

3: Acting School Scams

Discussion on how some acting schools create a cult-like atmosphere to exploit students. Kate Willett: "Acting classes can sometimes feel like they're more about the teacher's ego than teaching."

4: Recognizing Scams

Tips on recognizing and avoiding scams in various aspects of life. Laci Mosley: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

5: Wrap-up

Concluding thoughts and a comedic recap of key lessons from the episode. Laci Mosley: "Stay skeptical and keep your humor about you in a world full of scams!"

1. Always research any organization that requires a significant investment of time or money.
2. Be wary of groups that demand excessive personal information or adherence.
3. Recognize emotional manipulation tactics used by scammers.
4. Maintain a healthy skepticism towards opportunities that promise quick solutions to life’s problems.
5. Use humor to maintain perspective and share experiences with scams.

What’s Poppin’ Con-gregation? This week comedian Kate Willett joins the show to discuss Sam Israel III, who ran a hedge fund that “accidentally” turned into a scam with Sam “accidentally” finding himself in the plot of a spy movie. Stay schemin’!

People

Laci Mosley, Kate Willett

Companies

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Books

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Guest Name(s):

Kate Willett

Content Warnings:

None

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Lacey Mosley

Robbery and fraud scam robbery and fraud scam. Got it. What's Poppin congregation? It's your girl. Lacey Mosley, aka scam got us back with another installment of the podcast that's all about robbery, fraud and those who sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them.

We'll see. Along the way, I want to remind you all that this is a comedy show. Sometimes people are getting confused about that and I don't know why. I just felt like I was going to reiterate that on today. Well, if you're not new to this show, then you already know that I'm very.

What? Yes. Excited, elated, thrilled. For today's guest. We have an amazing comedian, actress and writer on the show.

You've seen her on the Late show with Stephen Colbert Netflix comedy lineup. She's an author of the audible original, Dirtbag Anthropology, and co host of the political comedy podcast Reply Guys. Check out her new comedy special titled Loopholes on Prime Video and Apple TV out April 23. Congregation please welcome Kate Willett to the show. Hey Kate.

Kate Willett

Hey, how are you? I'm doing wonderful. I'm trying my new voice out. I've been taking voice lessons. I feel like it sounds very weird.

Lacey Mosley

I was like, hey Kate, I think. You sound, you sound to me like somebody use. It sounds like a, almost like somebody who has a radio voice, which I think is very good for a podcaster. Yeah, for podcasting, yeah, for sure. I sent my friend funky by stand up set that I did at the comedy search not too long ago.

She was like, you do stand up like a news anchor. And I was like, I'm working on my new voice. Oh, and so there's this woman on Instagram. I forgot what her name is, but she is a newscaster, and she narrates, like, all the things that her. Oh, I think I've seen her did.

Kate Willett

In, like, newscaster voice. It's so funny. I think I've seen her. Her family's super cute. Yeah.

Lacey Mosley

I'm, like, I'm trying not to go full newscaster, but I used to be, like, very shrill. Like, my voice used to be, like, very back here. Like, not that high pitch like mine. I was vocal fried hard, so I was trying to find a happy medium of goodness, but hey, Kate, thank you so much for being here on the show. Congratulations on your special April 23.

Kate Willett

So excited. Yes. And y'all can warm up. Y'all can watch Netflix comedy that's still up. Y'all can warm up on April 23.

Lacey Mosley

Go ahead and click on that special. You know you want to. But, Kate, we always ask on this podcast, what is your relationship to scams? Have you ever been scammed? Do you love em?

Do you hate em? You've been a part of one. It could be anything, Fiona. So I feel like I am a pretty easily scammable person, or at least I was in the past. I'm much less.

Kate Willett

I'm much less gullible than I was at a former time. Like, it used to be really easy to get me to join, like, straight up cults. Honestly, like, I almost accidentally, in my youth, I almost accidentally joined, like, a lot of cult services. Wait, like, which ones? Yeah.

So I'm not going to say the name of this, because they do. They do sue people, but people will probably know, or at least some listeners will. So there's this organization that they do, like, these large group awareness training. So they, like, bring everybody into a room, and they spend, like, three days, like, convincing you that your life is going to get, you know, transformed by doing this program. Now, wait, what are they bringing awareness to?

Lacey Mosley

What are the awarenesses that they're raising? It's, like, self awareness. Right. You know, and so a lot of this stuff is, like, very basic. Like, you just kind of, like, almost toxic positivity stuff.

Kate Willett

Like, you're responsible for your life circumstances 100%, which, in moderation. Right. Like, that's good. But also, like, sometimes, like, fucked up stuff happens to people. Like, if you're.

If you have cancer, it's not because you manifested it or whatever. Right. So they're tipping over into victim blaming, but they're saying that it's, like, self accountability. Okay. So instead of raising awareness for a cause, you are the cause.

Lacey Mosley

They raise an awareness for you. It's your own personal transformation. And, you know, they. It's like the training is, like, maybe 14 hours per day or maybe even a little longer on what you. The training?

Kate Willett

Yeah, you're like, it's, I want to say it's, like, probably comparable to something like Tony Robbins, maybe, but, like, without a main charismatic figure. It's like, you know, it's kind of corporate in the sense that there's, like, all these people that do it. Do you remember any segments, specifically, Kate, like, finding you, blaming you, chastising you, or what were they talking about? You remember any of them? The one thing I did, I do remember some of them.

Like, they have you call the people in your life, like your mom, your dad. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Friends. And then they. And then, you know, you're supposed to, like, take complete responsibility for the way that the relationship has gone so far.

And, you know, like, talk about, like, what possibilities you want to create. That's their language, you know? So. And another segment is, you know, you create the possibilities for yourself. Another, like, you know, you say what you want to happen, but it's not even necessarily always, like, super specific.

Like, I'm creating the possibility of, like, integrity in all of my affairs or something like that. And, like, stuff that sounds really kind of abstract and somewhat nonsensical sometimes. There was another section where you had to write down, like, a story of, like, a bad event that happened to you and you would just read it to another person over and over and over and over again. And, like, the idea was, you know, to get the emotional charge out of it, you know, and. Yeah, so just, like, kind of a lot of stuff like that, probably.

Lacey Mosley

Were you in LA when you joined this organization? No, I was in the Bay Area. And this was like, cali, because I know, I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you're talking about because someone else has mentioned it. But especially when you said calling the loved ones, that was. Yeah, let's.

Kate Willett

Let's say it rhymes with the Schman mark Schmorham. Yeah, but, you know, which could be any number of possible, could be anything. Yeah. But so I did it, like, right after I left college because I had this, I was an actor and this very charismatic acting teacher that had sort of formed her own type of cult. Like, acting class is kind of its own cult.

And you know, so they keep you, like, really tired and really hungry, and everybody's, like, talking about all this, you know, like, very emotional stuff that's happened to them in their life. Like, I mean, it could be small stuff, like getting rejected from their top college, or, like, even people talking about really serious stuff, like being severely abused by their parents as a child or whatever, you know? And I would say that, like, 70% of what they teach is helpful yet obvious in terms of, like, you know, keep your promises to yourself and, like, you know, and then probably another 30% tips over into, like, stuff that does get to be, like, I think, a little victim blamey in terms of, like, you know, even with these really bad events that have happened to people that, you know, they. They're responsible for it or they created it in some way. Right.

Lacey Mosley

Cause gum can keep you in a chokehold, and sleep deprivation and food deprivation are definitely, like, the grooming tactics of getting people into a cult, which is also a good tip for y'all. Sometimes before you make a rash decision, take a nap. Eat something. There's been so many times where I felt like I was going crazy, and it was. Cause I had not eaten anything or had not gotten a good night's rest.

Nap in your car, nap at work, like, before you send that presentation over, just, you know, catch a fatigue. Cause sometimes I swear, like, your brain function will have. I mean, it's not even, like I'm saying something wild, but your brain function can heavily, you know, influence how you make decisions and how you're thinking. So if they're sleep depriving all these young people and making them relive their trauma over and over and over again, like, do the trauma one more time. Hit me with that trauma one more time.

And then when did they get to the money? So the money is, like, it costs money to sign up in the first place. Okay. Up front. Yeah.

Kate Willett

Like, I think around the time I did it, it was, like, in the high 300s or something like that, which, like, I signed up for it. It was a lot of money for me at the time. Where did they find you? Or did you find them? So I had this acting teacher, our whole acting class, to take it.

She's like, this is the thing that will make you guys better actors and have a successful career and stuff. And we all trusted her so much because she was a really good acting teacher. And I don't know if you've been in acting class, but sometimes these really cult like dynamics can emerge. The best I've ever seen a representative in a show is that show Barry. It's so funny, like, where people just revere the acting teacher so much.

But so we all signed up. We all. We all did it. And then, you know, at the end, when you're, like, super raw and emotional, they closed on, like, a very positive note. So, like, everyone's really emotionally high, and then they try to get everybody to, like, sign up for all the later courses.

Of course, the later courses are, like, even more expensive than the already expensive one upfront. And not only that, but they super pressure you to call and convince, like, all of your friends and family to join. I was a little more reticent to do that part. I did sign up for the second one after that, you know, but you. Didn'T call your home girls.

Lacey Mosley

You didn't call your granny and tell her that she needs to start blaming herself. I think I made my boyfriend do it. You ain't telling her osteoporosis was her fault and that she needed to join. Nicole, you made your boyfriend do it, though, okay, I made my boyfriend do it. I made my boyfriend do it.

Kate Willett

And I made. Who else did it? Like, one of my. I didn't really make her, but I got, like, my best friend to do it. Yeah, you were just sharing the wealth because at this point you feel like, oh, this is a transformational experience.

Lacey Mosley

I took a lot of acting classes. I have a performance degree as well. But for some reason, I was just too unserious to ever get into the acting cult of it all. Like, I have some teachers that I really love, some that I still talk to today. But, you know, I have some intense teachers that had you, like, on the ground moaning and shit.

Like, that was one of the open exercises. You're like. And all this shit. I'm just very unserious. I'm like, what the fuck are we doing, bro?

This is goofy as hell. But, you know, like, there's two different types of actors where some people are like, this is my craft, and I'll get naked on. In the class and on stage, I'm like, bitch, I ain't doing all that, y'all. These ain't halle Berry titties, but I'm not getting monstrous ball money. But y'all ain't getting these titties for free.

That's not happening. But, yes, I don't know. I make jokes at funerals, so I just was never gonna be serious enough for them to get that. But I also get the more intense side of acting where you are doing, like, more method. Method.

You know, methodical study and, like, really getting into characters and really diving into those emotions. And it turns out to be really great work when done well. So I have no shade for it. I just wasn't serious enough. But I can imagine a teacher like that getting young people to, like, join this experience especially.

It sounds like the teacher was a little brainwashed, too. She was like, yo. Oh, she was super brainwashed. She was super, super brainwashed. And she, like, it's kind of crazy because she built, like, this little cult around her, but then she ended up, like.

Kate Willett

Like, I was young, and I don't realize this, but basically, like, in retrospect, it's super clear that she was, like, very narcissistic. And she taught acting class for a really long time. And I saw recently that she became a therapist. Oh, no. Yeah.

I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, whatever she did psychologically to the people in our acting class of, like, kind of cutting you down to make you feel better, she's now, like, a professional therapist, and I'm just. Who let her do that? Who let her. Oh, no.

Lacey Mosley

She should not be giving people advice. She's probably just using that to rope more people into the cult. But, yeah, a lot of acting teachers, some are really, really great, wonderful, positive people. But you do get your fair share of narcissists who are directly attracted to that. Field scams.

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But let's get into our next segment here. What's hot and fraud? This is where we warn our listeners about popping scams and the zeitgeist. Or more often than not, we get a letter from you all. As always, snitch on your friends, family, and your enemies@scamgottispodmail.net.

Just make sure the scam is retired because, you know, we don't want to. What? Yes. Fuck up your bag. Amen.

And so I just need a fake name from UK. We don't care about gender here. It could be any name. Natalie. Natalie.

Oh, I like Natalie. I like that name, too. I have a friend named Natalie, and I was just, like, thinking about her today. So let's do it. Yes.

There's only, only Natalie. There's only Natalie that I've ever seen. That was problematic. The rest of the Natalie's, I really enjoy it. So Natalie says, hi.

I recently started binging the pod and wanted to share my experiences of getting scammed. Okay, Natalie, so you got a couple examples here. It says, the first one, I lost my job during COVID but still had to pay rent. And a in quotes, sugar daddy messaged me on Instagram and I was like, oh, perfect, I need some money. Yeah, a sugar daddy.

Also, Natalie, I know you a baddie or that could be for any gender. But I love that you immediately were like, oh, a sugar daddy messaged me right in my time of need. I'm so sexy. Why wouldn't this happen to me? It perfect.

I do talk about pretty privilege because I have some very gorgeous friends, and I remember one of them when we were younger, she just lived in a world where everybody gave her everything. And luckily she had friends who weren't haters because for me personally, like, when she would walk by or we would go anywhere, we just knew we would have everything that we wanted. Like, I'll put Kim in the front. Like, we were like, yes, we love this. We love this.

We get everything we want everywhere. But I think because she had. She's, like, really, really gorgeous woman. I think that after a while, you start living in a pretty people bubble, like, an aggressively pretty people bubble. And she just thought she'd get away with anything.

And I remember one time we were going to made in America, and we were, like, college students. We were broke. We didn't want to pay for, like, you know, drinks. So we ordered these sunscreen bottles off Amazon that were flasks, and it was, like, a large tube that looks like copper tone. It says copper tone on it and everything.

And this is an outdoor festival, so we had, like, froze some. Hennessy, why are we drinking? Hennessy, this is. See, poor decisions in life. It's a hot day, Hennessy, on a hot summer day.

What is going on? Why? And so we're going through the security checkpoint, and before we left, when we were filling them up, I was like, hey, y'all, I think there's five of us. I was like, I think we should only take three because, like, we're all black girls. Like, I don't think they're gonna believe that we need this much sunscreen when we go through.

Like, no one's gonna believe. Like, all these black girls brought industrial sized copper toes. Cause we care that much. Like, yes, I wear sunscreen. You should.

Everyone should. No matter your skin color, protect yourself from the sun. But, like, young college girls wearing that much sunscreen? Come on, now. I was like, it's gonna flag.

And so I remember Kim was like, oh, no, it'll be fine. Like, everything will be fine. I was like, okay, girl. And so we split. I was like, we should at least split up and not go through the same security lines.

So me and my bestie Jojo, we got through, and then when it came to Kim and my other friend, they got stopped immediately. And I was like, I told you this wasn't gonna work, but she would just be flowing through life, and I love that for her. So I love that Natalee was like, you know what? A sugar daddy pops in my inbox in my time of need. Yes.

That's my wife. That's how it works for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be cool. It'd be cool to have a sugar daddy.

Kate Willett

That was like, look, you don't have to even do anything. I just want to give you money because you're hot. That'd be an ideal situation. Do you know scam goddess is actually a colloquial term for a financial dominatrix? Really?

I had no idea. I had no idea either. And I chose this name, not knowing this information. And when I first used to come up on searches, especially on Twitter, like, I would click and search scam goddess sometimes to see how the episodes were doing. This was years ago.

Lacey Mosley

I've been doing a show for five years, but these. These women would pop up and be like, you want to be my pay piggy? And I was like, what the hell is this? And they were all called scam goddesses. I was like, not me picking.

And people would dm me, men would dm me, and be like, I want to be your pay piggy, or, I want to, you know? And I was like, what is going on? And then I realized it was the name. Now it's fine. I'm so sorry.

Kate Willett

Yeah, I know some people that do that line of work, and, like, you know, it doesn't. It sounds actually, like, a lot harder. Oh, it's hard work. Yeah. Then, I don't know.

Lacey Mosley

You have to be a people person. You got to deal with a lot of personalities you don't want to deal with. People always try to act like sex work is lazy. And I'm like, okay, you try it. You try it, you bum.

Like, that's a lot of work. I can't imagine. Like, if I started to onlyfans, and now there's so many people on onlyfans, like, you have to really, like, break through the ether to get people to look at your news. And I would feel so bad if I put my titty online and it had, like, one view. Like, what?

Like, but you have to build it up like a brand, like anything else. And people just think it's so easy. And I'm like, it's not. You're not building up. A lot of people on onlyfans are only making, like, you know, a few hundred bucks a month or whatever.

Like, it's they hear about the rich people or the famous people getting on there, and then they just kind of extrapolate that. And I'm like, y'all don't know what you're talking about. Like, yeah. And you could never, like, you probably not built to do that work, so just shut the fuck up. And it's always people talking about sex workers who enjoy sex work.

I'm like, how much porn do you watch? You know that's sex work, right? Like, please be serious. Shut up. To me, it's just like.

Kate Willett

So. I mean, to me, it's just like, these people that, you know, are obsessed with, like, you know, being mad that, like, women are, you know, dominatrixes or having onlyfans or whatever. I'm just like, get a life. You don't have to watch it. She can do whatever she wants, you know, like.

Lacey Mosley

But people have an innate need to feel, support, superior to someone. And so if your life is, you know, trash instead of, you know, it's a lot harder to make your life better than it is to, like, shit on other people who you deem lesser than you. There's so many people. But even if you do want to do that, which I. I have that impulse, too, but there's so many people in the world who are doing things that are, like, actually, like, incontrovertibly bad.

Kate Willett

I'm like, just. You can just find something super real to be. No, that requires research. Yeah, I gotta read, like, some prejudices. Locked and loaded.

Lacey Mosley

What you mean? I got a. Ready? Yeah, like, I mean, I get mad about stuff all the time, but it's not like you can flip to page one of the New York Times and find, you know, five of the biggest villains on earth. Read.

Too much too hard. So Natalie says, sugar daddy, you know, wonderful. So I was talking to this dude, and he was like, in order to transfer money, I need a $50 eBay card to cover the transfer fees. I was 20 and stupid and desperate for money, and the dude disappeared once I sent the gift card. Mmm.

Yeah, we talked about this a lot, y'all. There's no money for money if you give me money. Give me the money. How? You tell me you got money for the money, but you don't got money for the fees?

So, do you don't got money? No. Never give people money to get money. That's weird. Okay.

Except for the IR's, they're the only people that we just legally allowed to shake us down. Yeah, I'm pissed right now, because for once in my fucking life. I got a refund because I overpaid and I don't get those. And then the IR's gonna send me a letter talking about, hey, we gotta make sure this is not identity theft. I was like, bitch, it was me.

When I was sending y'all all this damn money, y'all didn't think it was somebody else. And now. Cause you gotta send me some back at somebody else. And then I filled it out and they were like, nine weeks. She'll get your check.

It's been four months. And I went on the IR's site and they were like, oh, are you missing a check? Exactly. For how much, bitch? I don't know.

I have a round number. They were like, that's not it. You gotta guess, otherwise we'll never give it to you. It's, hell, I wanna fight. The Ir's so bad.

I hate them so bad. Me and all my homies hate the IR's. I mean, I'm pro taxes in general. Say it, but not this. No.

Kate Willett

It's like, I think I would feel. I'm not going to take us on a huge tangent here, but I would feel so different if I was paying taxes and it was like, oh, this is going to pay for my health care and for old people to have a secure return. Neighbors. Exactly. I would love it.

But instead we have to donate all this money to the military. So it's just like, ugh. To fight wars we don't want to fight. War is so old. Ghetto.

Lacey Mosley

It's just a money making machine at. This point in ghetto. That's so funny. Like, who's trying to do that? Like, nobody is trying to do the wars no more.

Like, please be serious. Yeah, some people fucking love that shit. And I understand. Yeah. People getting rich off of it.

Kate Willett

Yeah. But anyways, I'm gonna wrap this one up. She did give us one more scam. And I wanna get into the hoodwink here, but I'm gonna read it. Cause it's a short one.

Lacey Mosley

Thank you, Natalie. A double feature. Natalie says the second one was last year. Embarrassingly enough, I got an email from USP's saying I needed to update my payment info and address. I didn't think.

Okay, I'm gonna stop. Okay. Email. All right. They sent you a letter saying you need to update your address.

I'll be like, huh, is this where you live that we sent it to? No. So Natalie says, I didn't think anything of it because I had moved and my debit card had expired since I had bought stamps online. I had put in all of my payment information and then realized it was probably a scam. I reported my card stolen immediately and had it locked, but then had a couple of random charges for a few months.

Low key. I feel like my bank is letting people scam. Okay, so I'm gonna pause you right there, Natalie. The bank is scamming us. And for all that money they got on them, overdraft fees that they used to do to people, the bank should give you your money back because it's insured and fuck them.

But also, the reason that I read this one is because there's been such a huge uptick in this kind of online phishing at this point. I'm like, I used to find it funny and I'll post them on my instagram sometimes, but at this point I'm getting like 20 emails a day, at least from scammers on all different email platforms. Like, oh, you're, you need to update your credit card information, or, oh, this order is being sent through PayPal. If it's not, you stop here. And I'm actually starting to get pissed off.

Like, I know they're fake, but I really feel for, if I'm getting this many, I know everybody's getting this many. Your grandpa getting this mini granny auntie. And it's just such fucking bullshit. Like, get, get another griff, bro. Also, like, why?

The only time that you should update your payment information for any company is if you are in the middle of making a purchase. And if it was legit, the company would be like, this card is expired or this address no longer works with this card or whatever. But if you're not making a transaction, if you haven't purchased anything and a company reaches out to you talking about update your information or we need information, ignore that shit. Like, go directly to the real website on your URL if you're actually curious. But never respond to an email from a company talking about they need to update anything, bitch.

Update what? Like, you know, my parole officer, I don't have to give you updates. USP's Amazon. If I'm buying something, I'll update it. If not, like, if it's a situation where it's on auto pay and your.

Kate Willett

Cards, yeah, the companies are only going. To reach out and companies are only going to reach out if the auto pay was supposed to go through and the card declined because you turned it off or something. They're not going to just reach out randomly and be like, hey, it's us verifying your auto pay. Just want to verify it again? Give us all your info.

Lacey Mosley

Like y'all, anybody reaching out through email, just go to the site. Don't click on any links at this point. It's treacherous. Yeah, no, the email, the auto pay shit is so scammy. Especially because they'll just like, the one I hate the most is Apple.

Because if you get any subscription through, like, the Apple store, they all start at the time that you purchase them. So Apple is just over here taking random amounts of $4.99 out of your account all month long. And there's, you should check those because times they'll just add and spring a little extra. And I'm like, that's not. Yeah, yeah, I didn't pay for that.

Or auto pay will increase the price on certain services. And sometimes they tell you, sometimes they don't like, yeah, yeah. I think once a year you should audit everything you have on autopay. Yeah. And figure out if you need it.

Figure out how long it's been going on, how much you use it. Because it's a scam. Totally. I try to do it even more than once a year because there's been so many times where I just like, you know, like I needed to, I don't know, edit a PDF or something and I didn't have the software. And I was like, sure, you know, I'll pay $5 to do this thing.

Kate Willett

I'm in a time crunch. And then I'll like, look. And I'll be like, fuck, that was five months ago. Why have I been paying for this every month? You know?

Lacey Mosley

Exactly. That's how they get you. Also, I'm not a huge fan of subscription services for products. If I want to buy some leggings or I want to buy some lip gloss, why do I need a subscription for lip gloss or leggings? What are you doing?

Kate Willett

Yeah, exactly. Avoid those. They're a racket. They're like, oh, but you're going to get deals and access to these secret products unless you have some extreme shopping addiction where you buying products every month from this company. Don't get on a.

Lacey Mosley

Those kind of systems are predatory and companies are getting sued left and right for them because they also make it very difficult for you to unsubscribe from your paid subscription to, like, leggings. Yes, I know. It's so weird and hard and confusing to, like, do the stopping or subscription thing. The gym is another one that's so hard. I was trying to cancel a 24 hours fitness membership for like, two years, and eventually I just had to cancel my credit card because they would not stop.

Oh, they won't. I saw a tweet that went viral the other day that was like, hey, I'm about to cancel my planet fitness account. And then they retweeted themselves and were like, they jumped me in the back.

Like, they beat me up like you're knocking out. It's like, gyms are gangs. They like blood in, blood out. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

You try to cancel your membership, they're like, are you dead? Would then come in here and get this piece of treadmill, bitch? Cause I don't know where the fuck you think you going. Yeah, exactly. Oh, my goodness.

Luckily, I almost signed up for a gym membership that was definitely gonna scan me in forever. But when I did the walkthrough tour of the gym, there was somebody working out with the weight sets, like, with the free weights, and they were wearing jeans, and I was like, oh, no, I gotta get out of here. If I see someone in jeans in a gym, I feel like I'm in prison, and I will not be coming.

Kate Willett

100%. Like, are you a murderer if you work out in jeans? We know you do murders. We do. Okay.

Lacey Mosley

So I feel like if anything happens, I just like. He's the primary suspect. Him right there with the freeways and the dungarees. I know he did it. He came in here and worked out after.

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Lacey Mosley

All right, let's get into historic hoodwinks. This is the segment where I will regale Kate with a famous concave or group of criminals we don't know yet. Maybe we love them. Maybe we hate them. We'll find out.

Kate Willett

Okay. And a quick content warning up here, there are mentions of suicide and gun violence. Um, we just want to say that up top, as a warning. As always, we'll treat those things with care. But, uh, you might want to stick along for this ride because there might be a little turn here that makes it a little less hard to stomach.

Lacey Mosley

So today we're talking about Samuel Israel, the third too many names. Ran a hedge fund that accidentally turned into a scam. Accidentally is in quotes, so we'll see how accidentally it was. But in addition. Right?

Whoopsie. I did a crime. Okay, he. This is not an accident. Look at his smirk.

That smirk says, I did it on purpose. Yes, that is definitely, like, I did it on purpose. Smart. If I was his lawyer, we would definitely have a face training segment where I'd be like, don't make that face no more. Let me look at you.

Kate Willett

Yeah. That face is an admission of guilt. You don't have to say anything, just looking at it. So, before I get out to your case files, I set you up with some appointments for Botox. Cause we gotta get your face to stop moving because it's giving.

Lacey Mosley

Guilty. Like, I've never seen a face look more guilty. So, in addition to him being found a scammer, Sam accidentally found himself in a plot of a spy movie. So a little bit about Sam Israel. The third.

Sam Israel is a New Orleans native and grandson of a well known commodities trader on Wall street. He started the bayou hedge fund group in 1996 and quickly rose to the top, receiving money from some of the most well respected investors on Wall Street. I mean, when you start a hedge fund, you already getting into a scam. Like, we know what's going on. Early on, Sam's lies were small.

Just cute little lies. I don't like what they call them. White lies. You know, like, I feel like. What's that mean?

I don't like that. I like cute lies. Small lies. All right, so it turns out that despite having a building named after his grandfather at Tulane University, he never actually graduated. Though he told investors that he did.

I mean, I don't know if that's a small lie. You just lied about a whole institution. But if your granddaddy got a building, then, like, who gonna check you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're safe. You're good.

Yeah, I feel like if we gave building money to Tulane, then they should just give me a certificate. Like, why do I even have to go to class? What do you mean? Yeah, I made the building. That's my granddaddy.

Like, give me my. Give me my stuff right now. So he also exaggerated his professional resume, fudging dates and overstating his responsibilities for one key job in the bio that he sent out to prospective investors. So not only did he cook up his college diploma, he also cooked his resume. I'm not really seeing any problems right now.

Just, you usually do have to lie to get a job because every job wants you to have, like, ten years experience. And it's like, I just got out of college. How would I have the experience that you're asking for? Like, how do you get experience without getting experience? You lie about it.

Kate Willett

Yes. And I was even talking to a recruiter. My friend worked. Actually, my friend worked for this recruiter, and he was hiring people. And one of the things that the recruiter told him, he was like.

Lacey Mosley

Cause he was like, this person says that they have five years proficiency in this type of software. And I know that that can't be true because the software came out two years ago, and the recruiter was like, oh, but you should hire them because they have ambition so much that they're willing to lie about how much experience they have. That's so funny. So I guess the girls know in HR that you're lying, but they're like, that's that ambition we're looking for. They don't know what they're talking about, but they go fake it until they make it and work real hard.

Kate Willett

Fake it until you make it? Yeah, that probably take less than pay because they don't know either. It's wild. I was like, really? That's a good thing?

Lacey Mosley

I was like, well, I've been doing that my whole life, so I guess I was on the right track. So in the early nineties, he had been sued for not paying rent on his Manhattan high rise. Unusual for a man in his mid thirties who ran a hedge fund. So he was just not paying rent. Now, mind you, he's super rich, right?

He owns a hedge fund, but he was like, never mind on rent. Okay. Still, by appearances, the bayou fund seemed to be going well. In reality, Sam and Bayou were on the verge of bankruptcy. So they're probably throwing wonderful Christmas parties.

He giving out year end bonuses, and meanwhile, they have no money. The money's not moneying. So it turns out that bayou had always been a complete sham. Despite Sam's genuine efforts, it never made any profit. Oh, my God.

Oops. You know how sometimes you make a business and then the business don't make no money? Yeah. Yeah. And that's an accident.

We wanted it to make money. I'm on Sam's side so far. So Sam initially only planned to use investors money to pay off other investors just to keep them in the clear until they made more money. We know this as a Ponzi scheme. Yes.

But Sam says that he created the Ponzi scheme by accident. Oh, my God. Well, who among us has not accidentally created a Ponzi scheme? It's very easy to do. It's so easy to do.

You never tripped and fell into a Ponzi scheme? I mean, who hasn't really? You know, they're everywhere. Like, potholes in LA. What am I supposed to do?

Kate Willett

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, it's happened 1215 times to everybody. Who are you if you haven't actually. It's weird that you haven't fell into a Ponzi scheme.

Lacey Mosley

We should be looking at you, everybody. I know we agree. You're not living. You're not living. If you haven't fell into a Ponzi.

Scheme, you might be doing crime. If this has never happened to you, I think we all turn our attention to this guy. Yeah, we on my side. So the accounting firm that vouched for BYU's books was also completely made up, complete with a fake website and address. So you know how you make a fake company and a fake website and an address?

Kate Willett

I don't even know how this guy can claim it's an accident. This is, like, so obviously not an accident. I think he meant well. He intended to make money. He intended to have a company do oversight that he accidentally made up.

Lacey Mosley

Cause, you know, sometimes you make up a company and that's not your fault. So desperate to make a quick hundred million. You know how you make 100 million real fast? Sam looked everywhere for an answer and found it in the most unusual of. Places, inside his himself.

What a weird place to find an answer for more crime. So in 2004, Sam met b grade Hollywood director. Damn, that's shady. Not b grade Hollywood director Jack O'Halloran, who had played a villain in the 1978 Superman movie. So that's his claim to fame.

In 1978, he was this guy. So this is his head shot, and this is his. Oh, wow. Was he a zombie or a villain? Cause this is giving walking dead.

Kate Willett

He looks like if Frankenstein's monster was a wrestler. Like, if you join the w e. Yeah, it's, like, kind of Frankenstein looking, but, like, also, like, tons of chest hair and, like, a robe. Yeah. Should we want to fuck the villain?

Lacey Mosley

Like, why is his chest meat out like that? And I don't. I'm, like, trying to decide if he's attractive, but I don't think so. No, he's born. It's borderline.

Kate Willett

It's like he's not repulsive. They want us to feel something. The face is, I'm feeling fear, but I feel like with the clavicle and the taco meat, I'm like, did they also want me to be aroused by this? I mean, it is the seventies, but also, you're a villain. Put your chest away.

Lacey Mosley

Like, you need to be doing villainry. I don't know if. Well, you know what? I like my villain's cunt, so keep your chest out. I'm actually on board.

I'm on board now. So his claim to fame was this movie in 1978. Jack has since restyled himself as a venture capitalist with the dealings in the CIA and with international agents. Now, last time I checked, those are government like agencies. So how does that work with being a vc?

I don't know. Sounds legit to me. Yeah. Yeah. So Jack told Sam about a secret computer program that provided backdoor access to the world's leading banks to monitor the flow of money.

This is Jack telling Sam this. And he was like, remember I was in Superman and I had my chest titties out? Yeah. Now I do backdooring for all the banks in the world. And Sam's like, okay, so getting in on these projects required an invite, but guaranteed a huge rate of return.

So if you want to get in on this computer program, like, I have to invite you. So it's exclusive. But. And you do have to give me money. And trust me, remember, I was in Superman in 1978.

So anyways, we don't need to talk no more about that. And Sam was probably like, well, you know, my granddaddy got a building at two lanes, so I definitely have a degree. Yeah, they both had something to stand on, which is giving me scammy vibes already. Yes. So desperate.

This is Sam. You know when you desperate things are going to go wrong. Desperate to make enough money to save both himself and Bayou, which is his hedge fund company that doesn't have no funds, just hedges outside. Sam wanted into this project. He's got a lot of 100 billion reasons why he needs to make this work.

So the CIA agent that Jack set Sam up with was Robert Booth Nichols. And we have a photo of them. So this is the CIA agent. Oh, my God. This is.

Kate Willett

So, is this eighties or is this nineties or what? It's 2004, but they are giving eighties energy. Oh, yeah. Okay. And, like, one in the tan is the CIA agent in quotes.

Lacey Mosley

And it's giving, like, backstage, or, like, honestly, Craigslist. Like, do you want to do an immersive acting experience? I was going to say it's like an acting teacher. Like, it's like. It is very, like a hedge.

Kate Willett

Like, a guy who was an actor 20 years ago and, like, is still trying to look like his headshot that was taken 20 years ago. That is definitely what it's giving. It's also giving. Like, he had these clothes, or he went to goodwill and was like, what's a CIA agent's outfit look like? Yes.

Lacey Mosley

What would Jack Bauer wear? Give me that. So he sets him up with this guy, right? Who many on the Internet believed was involved in the most nefarious example in the world for decades. So Robert has a reputation of being one of the most nefarious CIA agents out there and, you know, black ops or whatever the hell else.

When Sam propositioned Robert to get in the bank monitoring CIA program, Robert told him to forget about it and forget about it, and that he was the one who could earn him billions. So he said, don't even worry about that, sweetheart. Don't worry about the bank back door. I can get you billions. Now, if I saw a man in that coat wearing denim on denim, it's not giving billions.

It's not giving millions. No, it's giving. It's giving. Substitute teacher, right? I can make you six rolls a quarters.

But you also do need to give me the money to make the change. Like, I don't know if you can make anything, bro. Like, this outfit is not giving me, you know where billions are? Like, I don't think you've ever seen that kind of money. So the buy in was only $150 million, and Robert assured Sam that it wouldn't be a risk, and instead placed in an account where no one could touch it while making 100% profit every ten days.

Now, Sam, you needed 100 million. And you're gonna go from needing 100 million to investing 150 million. And you're gonna get 100% profit every ten days. You're gonna make $150 million. This is, like.

Kate Willett

This reminds me of, like, the Fargo scam or whatever. Almost like, the guy. It's just he's so corny, and he's just like, oh, yeah, I don't know. Right? I'm like, nothing about this.

Lacey Mosley

I'm not giving this man a cent. Definitely not $150 million. So, according to Robert, he alone could guide Sam. And this is a quote. Only a few chosen people are able to participate in the program.

Proceeds are used to fund black operations, fight wars, pay off foreign governments, and conduct good work in the third world. Oh, and good work. So we're going to fund wards, wars, excuse me. We're gonna fund wars, we're gonna pay off foreign governments, and then we also go do some good in the third world, aka the places that we stole all their resources and then mock them for being poor even though we robbed them. That's like, if you got robbed, like, on the street, somebody's like, give me your purse, give me a wallet, give me your shoes.

And you give it all up, and they're like, ah, look at you. Broke bitch with no shoes on. Wow, you so broke. And it's like, you just robbed me. What do you mean?

And I just love that good work is all he says about it, just so vague. No, we gonna do good stuff too. Don't even worry about that. But do give us the money. Okay.

Yeah, okay. Good work. Good work. Define that. No, no, no.

Don't worry about that. It's. This is a vibe. It's a vibe. So the day after meeting Robert, Sam wired over $150 million to an account with Barclays bank in London.

Now, Sam. During the following year, Sam traveled to Geneva, Zurich, and Frankfurt under the guidance and handling of Robert trying to trade in the shadow market. And I want to note here, shadow market is like an economic dark web or in a market secretly operating behind the actual market. So now we're in the dark market. I bet it's lit over there.

I want to know what's going on. On the dark market. It's not even the black market. It's just a dark market. There's still, like a nightlight on.

They said black market is trademarked. So we. The dark market. Yeah.

So allegedly, it was not only incredibly difficult to trade these bonds, but dangerous. Of course, we on the dark market, things gotta get dark. So he and Robert were chased through the streets of London, assaulted in Amsterdam, and almost kidnapped in Zurich. So everywhere they went, somebody was trying to beat them up or chase them down. This doesn't sound like a good way to get money.

Kate Willett

No, it's like, I would love $150 million, but this doesn't sound worth it. To me at all. Also, like, how do these people know that we're in town and are we on the dark market? People can't see around here what's going on? So, having made little progress, Sam wired his 150 million back to Bayou's New York City bank account.

Lacey Mosley

Just weeks later, Robert called him, claiming to have found a bunch of secret bonds in Germany with a bank called post bank that Sam had to act on immediately. You know, that urgency, Sam. Like the nigerian money laundering scam, you know, right. Taxes and fees. But you gotta do it today.

Cause otherwise they gonna take the money back. You feel me? Yeah. Yes, it's me in your email. So Sam wasn't convinced that the trade was real, and he insisted he traveled to Hamburg to confirm its validity.

So he was like, at least Sam was smart here. He was like, let me pull up and make sure that they got these notes and these bonds y'all talk about. Robert instructed him to fly in and meet a man from Pakistan intelligence at a hotel, who equipped Sam with two handguns and silencers. So now he really is, like, living like a spy. Also, if you don't know how to use a gun, people can give you a gun.

But most people in home invasion situations who have firearms get shot with their own guns. Like, people can disarm you if you have a gun. That's why when people are like, I have a gun, it's like, no, you're supposed to just shoot and ask questions later. Cause otherwise you'll get disarmed, shot with your own gun. So I don't know if just giving this guy Sam all willy nilly, like, what are his expertises with using weapons?

Who knows? So the next morning, Robert arrived. So he came to town, too, with news that hundreds of operatives had descended on Hamburg to try to stop them from making a trade. And urban combat was likely. So now I'm starting to notice a pattern.

Every time Robert shows up, then some goons pop up who are at Sam. Coincidence? Yes, coincidence like Robert. I was walking through the street just fine before you got here. Now we getting chased.

What's going on? I could be wrong, but this feels like Robert is attracting the danger. So he manifested it. He manifested the danger. These are the spells that Robert cast.

Kate Willett

Didn't take responsibility for the ways that he was putting it out into the universe? No, not at all. So they met a banker through the back door of an empty bank, giving real thriller backdoors. Who explained the deal. Right.

Lacey Mosley

Very normal. That's how you do dark business. You got to do it in the alley because people don't go in those. So the banker explained a deal involving $2 billion in unsecured bonds. Sam just needed to transfer 120 million to an account in post bank for security reasons.

Sam left the meeting before Robert because, remember, everybody's chasing them, so they got to split up. On his way out, he ran into a suspicious man. In a turban who he believed was involved with the operatives looking to stop the trade. Why? Cause he got a turban on?

I don't know. That feels like profiling. Yeah. So, of course, give me post 911. I don't know if this guy was involved.

So according to Sam, I let go. I'm sorry. According to Sam, I let him go, walked on, then turned around to see if Bob was behind me. That's Robert. I saw the guy reach into his jacket and pull out a gun.

Now Bob was coming out of the building, and the guy was aiming to shoot him. I pulled out my gun, and I shot the guy. I hit him in the left hip and walked over and shot. Shot him in the head, and it exploded. This really escalated.

Yeah, like, it escalated from, like, a guy in the alleyway to a shootout and an exploding head. Okay. So there were no cars or witnesses, and the silencers had worked. The men ran. Robert promised to take care of the body and guns because Sam had saved his life.

The next day, Sam wired the 120 million to Germany, leaving him with almost nothing but the faith that he had made a true investment. By 2005, the total investments in the bayou were around 300 million plus profits. And despite Sam's international adventures, from outward appearances, it looked like the bayou's still going great, even though I just don't know if, like, I leave a business meeting, they're like, okay, you stand to make lots of money and then immediately get shot at. If I'm going to wire the money, I don't know what's. No, that's like, that should be all the information you need, really?

I think. Why was that a green light for you? Like, that's not a green light that they just trying to shoot me in the alleyway. We haven't even. We have no money on us.

All we've done is talk about the dark business, and I'm getting shot at. Yeah, not bright. Also, I'm not hanging out with Robert no more if we're homies and every time I'm with you, people are trying to murder me, we can't be friends. Yeah. Even more stressful than being friends with someone super beautiful, you know?

Oh, that was not stressful at all. I love her, but this, I feel like this is like we would both leave this relationship like we talked about earlier, just like a slow fade away. Like, we're not. Yeah, yeah. I'm not having.

Kate Willett

It's like, oh, I'd love to hang out Saturday, but just work is crazy right now. Yeah, work is so crazy. Yeah. No, I would love to do the dark stuff with you, but I got a Pilates class and they charge a fee if you cancel. Yes, exactly.

Lacey Mosley

I can't do the dark murder with you this weekend, but let's see if we can get together next week. What's your Tuesday looking like? Oh, man, Tuesday's bad for me. I'll hit you back next month. Like, I'm not going there.

What are you talking about? So the business looks like it's still going well. The bayou is going great. So to everyone's surprise, the investors in the bayou hedge fund. It was shocking when Sam sent out a letter in 2005 saying, it's been a great run, but I regret to tell you that I've decided to fold up Bayou because I want to spend more time with my family, and the checks will be in the mail soon.

So you have a huge hedge fund with over $300 million in it, and you sent out a letter saying, hey, y'all, I need to spend more time with my. That's like what people say when they get fired from a job, but they're giving the person a chance to publicly act like they resign. You know, I just need to make more time for my family. So I'm no going to run this $300 million hedge fund. I'll send you out a check in a little bit.

No worries. What? I need to focus on my mental health, so I'm going to just send y'all a check.

I don't know if businesses can just dissolve like that. Like, hey, I don't want to. Goodbye. So the promised date that he said he was sending these checks, right? Came and went and no checks arrived.

So he bought himself some time, saying, I'm going to send you all these checks in three to five business months. And those months passed. Nobody got a check. So phones at the bayou headquarters rang off the hook. People are calling day, night, day, text messaging, email, carrier pigeon.

They're like, where is the money? But there was no one to answer them. Nor was there anyone at the mansion Sam rented from Donald Trump. Now renting a property from Donald Trump. Sam, I just gotta say to be, you are a scammer and a mark, which is really beautiful because you're on all sides of the scam.

You're letting Robert scam you. You're also scamming investors. And then you went as far as to buy property from one of the number r1 estate scammers in the world, Donald J. Trump. Yeah, this is.

Kate Willett

Wow. Donald, just grab him by the coochie. Trump. You thought? Yes.

Lacey Mosley

That's what the J stands for. Why? Why? Why would you do this? Also, I can't imagine ever living in any property that Donald Trump has designed.

They're so tacky. They're so tacky. It's, like, the wall is, like, moldy, but there's a golden toilet or something. I heard Mar a Lago is, like, falling apart, and, like, it's, like, really gross, actually. Well, I mean, with all the legal fees Donald Trump, that he can't pay, like, I'm sure he can't afford to get the toilets upgraded or.

Kate Willett

Yeah, I know. I'm sure there's all types of signs in the bathroom. Like, don't flush any paper. Don't flush any toilet paper. Don't poop.

Donald Trump, he's the ultimate scam goddess. Yeah, right? He's like, pee outside. The golf course needs water in. Like, what are we doing?

Lacey Mosley

Like, this house also looks ugly. Like, I know. It's very. McMansion. Yeah, like, I don't know.

Kate Willett

Have you seen McMansion hell? She has a blog where she does, like, architectural critiques of, like, shitty mansions. And this, like, totally reminds me of something that would be on there. You know? I looked that up.

Lacey Mosley

Cause I love looking at those houses that are just. Oh, it's such a good blog. Yeah, no, but there's just, like, so many different, like, architectural styles, and there's no symmetry, and it's just, like, tackiest book. It's just rich people getting scammed. Look, money does not buy you taste, okay?

That's why I pay people to have taste, and I'm not a good decoration. The fountain looks like an apology present from the mafia. It really? Yeah. What, a specific read?

Kate Willett

Yeah. We're sorry about your son. Yeah. Like, what? Yeah.

Lacey Mosley

This house is disgusting. One investor, who was owed $53 million didn't want to wait and flew across the country to the bayou offices to confront Sam and his chief accountant, Dan Marino. Not to be confused with the football player. I love somebody who's gonna pull up slide. I think that's amazing.

Do that. Okay, so when our confrontational investor pulls up, right, he finds that the offices are abandoned and unlocked. The only thing he found was typed out in six pages on Dan's desk, and it was a suicide note left by him. So leaving your suicide note in your abandoned office. And suicide is a very serious topic.

We have a content warning at the top of this, so we're not gonna spend too much time on this. But there's just something about leaving at your office to just feel genuine to me, because the office is abandoned. It's unlocked. Nobody is there. So who was gonna find this note?

You knew an investor was gonna pull up, so you were just trying to tell them, like, oh, I can't give it back. Cause I'm dead. What? So, in the note, he confessed to everything, including that the hedge fund never made any money and that they had created a fake accounting firm. Police found Dan within hours of the investor finding the note.

With his suicide plan either abandoned or never attempted, he cooperated immediately on laying out the full extent of Bayou's crimes and how they bilked hundreds of investors out of $300 million. Despite investing with foreign banks, Bayou had reached the end of its rope. The transfers back and forth between Europe had triggered the authorities attention at first, and Sam's disappearance is what sealed it. So at first, they were like, why you send all this money back and forth to Europe? That's us money.

And, you know, the government is, like, very invested in money. Like other crimes. We'll get to those. But. But Uncle Sam wants his check, and he wants it yesterday.

So if you doing anything like that, they will come find you. So as soon as our homeboy Sam just disappeared, they were like, okay, yeah, we have cause. Let's pull up. So when the bad news made headlines, Sam finally turned himself into the police. In September of 2005, he pleaded guilty to three counts of federal investor and mail fraud.

Mail fraud is always where they get you. And in 2008, he was sentenced to 20 years in jail. In an act of mercy, the judge gave him two months free on bail to get his affairs in order.

And what would those affairs be, mister? To judge? Are they, like, sex affairs or just all affairs? For him to do lots of affairs. He has to say goodbye to his dominatrix.

Right. What were these affairs? So, on the day that he was supposed to report to prison, right. Police found Sam's suv abandoned on the Bear mountain bridge in New York. If suicide is painless.

Written on the dust of his windshield. Oh, my God. So, remember, he got two months, right? And then, right when he was supposed to go back to jail, he parked his car on this bridge and wrote a note on the dust. Cause he couldn't get it.

Kate Willett

Did you find out that he faked his death? Yes. Let's see. So they never found his body, and the search for Sam continued. Investigators discovered that another car had picked him up and driven him to an rv full of his possessions, aided by his girlfriend.

Lacey Mosley

So he didn't want fair in order also, Sam, this is a very serious topic. Like, you know, ideation and taking your life. But the way that you did it, I knew that it was nefarious the entire time because, one, you left it in an office that was abandoned, and you were like, hopefully somebody finds this. You knew who was gonna find it. An angry investor is eventually gonna pull up on you, and then the judge is nice enough to give you two months to get your affairs in order.

I don't know what the hell that means. And then the day you supposed to go to jail, you, like, it's over for me. Don't look for my body. I have offended. Like, what?

There are cameras on bridges, Sam. Did you think this plan through? Sam? You should have drove up to the nearest volcano, left it there. But I jumped in the top.

Y'all will never find me. Like, what? What are you talking about? So he spent the summer living on a campground under an alias before his mother convinced him to turn himself in, after his girlfriend was arrested for aiding him. So now you got the girlfriend in trouble.

She's just trying to hold you down. There's so many women in prison for stuff like this. Behind men, behind partnerships. Like, I'm not going to jail for you. I'm not a ride or die.

I'll ride. And then when they're like, it's time to die, I'm like, can you pull over? I'm gonna hop out right here. Cause I'm not here for the or die part. I'm just a ride.

And that's why the ride is good. Rides are getting bumpy. It's turbulence. I'm leaving. I'm getting off.

I'm so sorry. But. So his mother shout out to the mother, who was like, okay, now you got your girlfriend in jail. Like, just give it up. Yeah.

So his mom convinced him. What wasn't known at the time is that for the entire previous year, he had been involved in a James Bond like plan of international subterfuge. So remember that $120 million that him and Jack. Oh, my God. Yeah.

So, in a since unsealed deposition, Robert admitted to the man's turban being outfitted with cackle bladder, a sack filled with chicken blood that a fraudster would wait until a precise moment to activate. So, the man in the turban who just randomly pulled up in the alley while they were discussing the, you know, $2 billion in banknotes that they were going to get on the dark web of investment. Walk with me here. He was an actor. And the gun that the pakistani international man gave Sam with the silencer was probably either not loaded or not like, a real gun.

Who knows? But basically, when Sam. Or maybe it had blanks in it. When Sam shot the gun to murder the man who pulled up in the turban in the alley, he had, like, some kind of special effects situation in the turbine. So that.

That's why I remember when Sam said he shot him in the head and his head exploded. Yeah. Cause that's not normally how gunshots work. No, but Sam's never, obviously, he's not a shooter. So he was like, wow, I did a murder, and I'm so thrilled.

And they moved on. But it was fake. It was all fake, Robert. That's right. We said it was a little suspicious that every time Robert showed up, all of a sudden they were running from goons.

Kate Willett

Oh, my God. This guy's addicted to scamming. He is also. He's addicted to getting scammed. Cause Sam walked into Robert's trap here.

Lacey Mosley

So, to this day, Sam believes Robert was real and that he did indeed kill a man. Sam is still serving time in the same prison as Bernie Madoff. You know, where he used to be with a scheduled release date of May 10, 2026, he believes Robert faked his own death in Geneva in 2009 and is still working in the shadow market. So Sam is in jail. You know, where Bernie was.

Hopefully, he got Bernie's cell. I feel like there should be a Ponzi row, like, hall of Fame where, you know, Sam can set up next to where Bernie used to be. And I love that he's holding on to thinking that Robert actually was an international spy, and he actually wants to think that he killed a man, which clearly he did not. But you know what? I feel like that's because Sam doesn't want to believe that as a scammer, he was also getting scammed.

Kate Willett

Yeah, man, he manifested it. He drew that scam energy into his life. Yeah, sometimes it can backfire on you like this. I know. Robbers get robbed all the time.

Lacey Mosley

They just call that, you know, the game, charge it to the game. But also, I just love that Sam was so dedicated to the scam that he's not wondering where the 120 million that he wired. When none of this seems fake or nefarious, you just want to believe that this man faked his death. Okay. Yes.

Whatever helps you sleep at night in the jail, Sam. Do that. Well, that brings us to the end of a fantastic episode. Kate, it was so lovely to have you on the show. We always ask at the end where.

Kate Willett

Would you like to. I love my stamina. This guy is so good. He was busy. He was busy for many years.

Lacey Mosley

And his passport is stamped, okay? He was running from goons in the street. He was having his Jack Bauer fantasies come true. And I love that for Sam. And I'm glad he didn't actually murder it anyone.

But we always ask at the end of this podcast, where do you like to be found, Kate? Is there anything you want to promote? Any socials? All of those things. Yeah.

Kate Willett

Find me on Instagram at Kate Willett with two L's and two T's. And my special is out on Amazon and Apple TV on April 23. Yeah, it's a really fun special. It's very. It's a fun special.

I actually talk a lot about dominatrix stuff in it. Ooh, yes. Now I'm intrigued. Yeah. I had a boyfriend that was always trying to scam with dominatrixes or whatever, so there's a lot of scam them.

Lacey Mosley

Okay, see, this is why y'all gotta watch loopholes, okay? April 23. Because I already have questions. I have questions, and they need answers, and I will get them. I will be watching it.

And as always, y'all in the footnotes, pre order. My book, it comes out September 10, 2024, pre order. We trying to scam our way into a bestseller list. Y'all help us out. And then, as always, email your friends, family.

Snitch on everyone you love or hate it. Scam got us pod.com dot. If you want to follow the show and see these photos. Scam got us pod on Instagram. If you want to chat with me on Twitter.

Scam got us pod. And if you want to see me and my personal shenanigans, d I b a l a c I D. Valacey on all platforms. Congregation, y'all get out there and make your own hedge fund. Okay?

Stay salmon. Okay? Get out of the streets. Run from some goofy. I want this for you.

Bye. Scam. Got it.

This has been an Earwolf production in association with team Coco scammed Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Laci Moseley, aka Scam Goddess. Our producer is Judith Cargbo, and our audio engineer is rich Garcia. Research for the show is done by Kailyn Brandt. Stay scheming.

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