New Polling on Trump's Felony Conviction

Jon Favreau
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Welcome to pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

Tommy Vietor
Tommy Vitor.

Jon Favreau
Welcome back, Tommy.

Tommy Vietor
Thank you.

Jon Favreau
I know you've been doing the pods anyway, but you're now officially back from.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, I know. Officially back. I just completed the amazing race.

No, I had a son, little boy named James.

Jon Favreau
How's james doing?

Tommy Vietor
He's doing great. I mean, you know how it is. The newborn, they don't do a ton. They sleep, they eat, you console them. So I've been spending a lot of time with lizette, my 17 month old daughter, who Hannah can't pick up cause she had a c section. So Lizette's kind of like, I'm on duty. And that has honestly been so much fun.

Jon Favreau
I know.

Tommy Vietor
She's a blast.

Jon Favreau
I felt the same way about Charlie. But now that Teddy's five months old and he's starting to, like, do things and smile at you, you know, Emily every once in a while is like, you do have a second son. Have you seen him today?

Tommy Vietor
And, James, if you're listening to this in 18 years, uh oh. But no, knock on you. You're adorable. I love you. You're fun. But Lizzie's just, like, such a goofy, hilarious kid at this point. So it's been.

Jon Favreau
Takes a couple.

Tommy Vietor
It's very fun.

Jon Favreau
Our other co host is still on reality tv show leave.

Tommy Vietor
We just got a weather report that apparently it has been very rainy. Where he is?

Jon Favreau
Mm hmm. What's up?

Where he presumably is, right?

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. We don't know.

Jon Favreau
We don't know.

Tommy Vietor
We literally don't know.

Jon Favreau
We think he's organizing Americans abroad in.

But again, we're not sure.

Tommy Vietor
Is that what Bloomberg won?

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

Maybe he's accusing Jeff Probst of rigging the tribal council by now.

Tommy Vietor
That's.

Jon Favreau
Maybe he's yelling at the jurors. We don't know. We don't know.

Wild stuff, guys.

Yeah. Hopefully that rain clears up.

Tommy Vietor
It's also just you and I are laughing about the amount of that have happened in the world that are absolutely monumental and huge since he's been gone that he just doesn't know about.

Jon Favreau
In fact, we wanted to put a list together. This is good. If you're listening, send us. Tweeted us some news items. Obviously, the verdict, the debate he doesn't know about. But there's probably a bunch of little things that have happened since early May when he disappeared.

Tommy Vietor
JLo's tour getting canceled.

Jon Favreau
Jlo's tour getting canceled. Rip, send us all your fun news.

Tommy Vietor
If you're a subscriber, put it in the discord.

Jon Favreau
That's right.

Tommy Vietor
Cause then we'll definitely see it.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. If and when he returns. All right, we are gonna talk a bit later on the show about the president's latest push for a ceasefire in Gaza and congressional leaders asking BB to speak to a joint session. But first, we have a lot to cover on the fallout from the biggest political story of the year, maybe several years, which is that the republican nominee for president is now a convicted felon. We've all had a few days to absorb this new reality and answer some version of this question from family and friends. How much will this matter? Tommy, what do you think, and what's your overall takeaway from the verdict? We haven't heard from you yet.

Tommy Vietor
It was funny because this is like, the first time in 20 years that I was consuming news like a normal person. You know, it's been my job.

Jon Favreau
You're not normie.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, well, it's been my job to consume news since, what, 2003 or 2002? So I was, like, in the backyard playing with Lizette, and I looked at my phone, and I think I also don't have Twitter on my phone anymore. Cause I deleted it a long time ago. And I tried to redownload it, but there was a two step verification thing. I just can't get it back.

Jon Favreau
Okay, winner of the offline. Both of you guys love it. Love. It's very offline. And now you're offline, too.

Tommy Vietor
It was. It's not a very. It's not a story. That looks great. I got into a dumb argument one weekend, and I was walking around the mall with my wife and daughter completely distracted, and I was like, what am I doing to myself? So I deleted Twitter. And then a couple days later, when I tried to get my fix and download it again, I couldn't anyway, so I was consuming news like, normie, I got a text from you. I think. It was like, hey, verdict coming? So I ran inside and watched it, and I think my response was just, like, total surprise. I just did not think the verdict was gonna be swift and clear. I thought it would be muddled because nothing is clean and easy in the Trump era.

Jon Favreau
I know.

Tommy Vietor
You know? And then I also. I listen to you and Dan later. I also found myself instantly furious at everyone saying, this is such a dark day for America.

Jon Favreau
I know. It's like, guys.

Tommy Vietor
No, it's not. It's not.

Jon Favreau
He's been a bad guy all along.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah.

Jon Favreau
He's done a whole bunch of bad shit, most of which he's gotten away with, some of which he hasn't been impeached twice, been held liable for fraud, been held liable for sexual abuse. His companies now have been held liable for financial fraud. I mean, yeah, let me tell you.

Tommy Vietor
Some dark days in America. Some sad days in America. The day we elected him, the day we failed to impeach him on January 6, thanks to Mitch McConnell.

The days when we watch republicans come crawling back to Donald Trump to endorse him after attacking him when they were running against him. So this was a January 6.

Jon Favreau
That was a bad one.

Tommy Vietor
That one sucked.

Jon Favreau
That one sucked. Yeah. Yeah. We've had some dark days with him.

Tommy Vietor
Some dark days. So, you know, I was just sort of, like, kind of in shock. And then immediately my broken brain went to, how will this play in the election?

Jon Favreau
Well, with the caveat that it usually takes a week or two for polling to accurately reflect people's reaction to any big news event again, which is hard for all of us news junkies to believe because our reactions are immediate. But in most of the country where people are not paying attention to politics, the news sort of filters down. And even if they get it right away, they don't really form opinions on it for a while. That's just always what happens. But we did get some initial hints from a few pollsters who spoke to voters after the verdict. On average, they show a shift towards Biden of somewhere between three, three and a half points, maybe a little under three now, because I think there was another morning consult today that showed not much movement. Anything in the numbers you find notable or surprising?

Tommy Vietor
Well, Jon, as a father of two, I'm now seeing double the big picture.

Jon Favreau
So I do think it's worth. Dad, you got the dad humor for sure.

Tommy Vietor
Never left me. It hurts. I do think it is worth just pointing out that it is depressing that the numbers didn't move 20 points. Yeah, that is sort of, you would think. But that said, I guess I was sort of pleasantly surprised that there was real movement. Sometimes voters tell you how they're going to feel about an issue and then it happens and they actually don't feel that way. So I was glad to see that the numbers moved a bit. There's also a lot of sort of anti Trump or never Trump republican types who want us to believe that Alvin Bragg basically cemented Trump's reelection by prosecuting him and that the guilty verdict will only help that maybe they're right. We won't know for sure until the election happens. But those same people probably would have told us that the election was over if Trump had been found innocent and if there was a hung jury.

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
So I don't know. You probably dug into this way more than I did. What do you think?

Jon Favreau
I mean, I still, I honestly don't know. And I really do think it's too early to tell, particularly because I think the biggest impact could be on voters who aren't paying attention, which are in the polls. These are some of the voters who Biden has, if you believe the polls, has lost to Trump or who are flirting with supporting Trump or not voting at all. And so it's going to be even tougher to measure what they think. They're not paying attention to the news ever. And so maybe they're not really, they haven't made up their minds yet. So I think that's tough. I also think if you are someone who has been with Trump this whole time, through the two impeachments, through the insurrection through all the bullshit. I don't think a guilty verdict is gonna change your mind. So if you're a liberal or if you're someone who has decided you're not voting for Donald Trump, and I don't think, I can't imagine a guilty verdict making someone who hasn't voted for Donald Trump be like, oh, you know what? Now I'm gonna vote for him. Because I think that it's a travesty of injustice or something. I think that's bullshit.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, maybe if you're a single issue, the justice system is broken voter, that might get you. But normally you aren't focused on the way the justice system treats rich, powerful people in Manhattan, because they tend to do okay. I did notice, I think the times had a write up of some of their old polling that they found that Trump voters, they don't buy this election interference frame for the New York case, but they did find some independents who were just kind of generally worried, like, how would you serve as president while you're a felon? The logistics, the image of it all, I can imagine, you know, you kind of, you don't really know how it's going to feel to vote for this guy until you get into the booth and you think about, like, what message does this send in the world? How's this gonna work?

Jon Favreau
I think that's a big.

For normies, for disengaged normies. I think that's a big one. Like, do you want.

Tommy Vietor
It's embarrassing.

Jon Favreau
We're overthinking this.

Do you want a convicted felon as president? Do you want the rest of the world looking at America and being like, oh, yeah, they elevated a criminal, an unrepentant criminal, to the most powerful office in the world. You don't want that.

Tommy Vietor
No, not at all.

Jon Favreau
People don't think that's a good thing unless you're like. And you really love Trump, right? Obviously, you know, I think the ABC Ipsos poll, poll showed most voters think the verdict was correct. Most voters think that Trump should end his campaign again, it's like 49, 50%. So it's pretty close. But it's not like there's a majority or 49% that think that the verdict was incorrect or that Trump should stay. That's in, like the thirties. There's a, there's, you know, there's, again, like, usual, a segment of voters who were like, I don't know what to think yet. And I think that's what we're gonna have to watch in the coming weeks. Speaking of never Trumpers. Our friend Sarah Longwell did a focus group of two time Trump voters who were down on Trump after the verdict. And five of nine said that the verdict has made them less likely to vote for Trump. So just one focus group, but that's something.

Tommy Vietor
I'll take it.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. Let's talk about the reaction from the newly convicted criminal himself. On Friday, Trump gave a long and rambling speech at the scene of the crime Trump Tower, where he took responsibility for his actions and asked the american people to forgive him. Just kidding.

He called the judge the devil and attacked Joe Biden, Democrats, the prosecutors, the witnesses, falsely claimed that the defense witnesses were, quote, literally crucified and told a bunch of lies about our criminal justice system. Trump kept the crazy train going on Sunday, where he sat down with his pals at Fox and friends to take about an hour's worth of softballs.

Here's some of what he had to say about the verdict.

Speaker C
I think it would be tough for the public to take, you know, at a certain point, there's a breaking point and it sounds beautiful. Right? You know, my revenge will be success, and I mean that. But it's awfully hard when you see what they've done. These people are so evil.

And at the same time, the country can come together. You know, I'm saying this, but the country can come together.

Hillary Clinton, I didn't say lock her up, but the people would all say, lock her up. Lock her up. Okay.

Jon Favreau
So he didn't, he's never said, he's never said, never said, lock her up. Never said lock her up. We do have, I think a clip of that might contradict that statement. Lock her up. Lock her up. Lock her up.

Speaker C
Tell you what, for what she's done, they should lock her up.

Speaker D
She's worse.

Speaker C
So crooked. Hillary. Wait, crooked. You should lock her up. I'll tell you, Hillary Clinton has to go to jail. Okay. She has to go to jail. Lock up the Bidens. Lock up Hillary. If she were to win this election, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis.

In that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial.

Tommy Vietor
That would be horrible, prescient.

Jon Favreau
We would not want that. Now, we don't just have a sitting president under a felony trial. We have a sitting president who is a felon.

Tommy Vietor
Oh, that's okay. Even better. I do love that there's the distinction. Well, first of all, obviously, he lied about not saying locker up, but I do love that there would be a distinction between saying lock her up. Or just basking in the Nuremberg like glow of thousands of people chanting it at you at a rally.

Jon Favreau
He's such a fuck.

He also asked the Supreme Court to step in and overturn the verdict, which isn't really how that works. State court, supreme court. I don't, I guess there's a, we talked to norm about this and Melissa Marie. Like, there's a small chance that once you go through the entire appeals process, maybe somehow they can move it to federal.

It seems very unlikely it wouldn't happen for years.

Tommy Vietor
Anyway, I listened to Melissa explain that and rewound it, like three times, and I still didn't get it. But she knows what she's talking about.

Jon Favreau
One thing that certainly is not gonna happen is that the Supreme Court just jumps up and steps in right now.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, I love that. I love that. I'm calling on the Supreme Court to step it. I mean, one, you know that Clarence Thomas and Justice Alito called in some of their top clerks and they were like, hey, figure out, is there any.

Jon Favreau
Way we can make this happen? Well, you also see that everyone, they're all flying the flag upside down. Like Martha. Martha Alito.

Tommy Vietor
Yes.

Jon Favreau
This is the new thing. Now they're all flagged.

The mag of people are gonna fly their flags upside down. The american flags.

Tommy Vietor
I saw MTG tweeted it, which is usually a sign that in three or four days everyone's gonna be doing whatever.

Jon Favreau
The Heritage foundation put up an upside down flag, too. That's good. I, look, I think that I'm just a patriot. I like to fly the american flag. The right's right way up. That's just my, that's a crazy lib, political position. But I'm for the flag being right side up.

Tommy Vietor
John's pro flag.

Jon Favreau
What do you make of Trump's reaction so far?

Tommy Vietor
I mean, the, I watched the speech in its entirety this morning.

Jon Favreau
The Friday.

Tommy Vietor
The Friday speech. The Friday speech, sorry, in its entirety. It is a total mess. The gag order makes him more incoherent than usual because he's sort of talking around names of people so he doesn't get fined again or more jail time. He started by trying to make an argument about immigration. Did you catch this? Something about how they're bringing in criminals to the site. It didn't work. It lasted about 30 seconds of a 30 minutes speech. I'm sure that was drafted for him. His advisors were like, somehow make this about immigration. Didn't work. Ten minutes later, he's talking about the January 6 committee. He's attacking random critics like Adam Kinzinger.

Jon Favreau
You catch that?

Tommy Vietor
He called him the most emotional man I've ever seen.

Jon Favreau
I did laugh. I mean, he's not. I don't even know what he. That's why he's like, so deep in the Mago kids. I don't ever remember Adam Kinzinger crying about anything, but I don't know.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, when did he cry on tv? I was like, what are you talking about? He's making up stats about terrorism. It was just a mess in the middle. I thought there was a compelling argument, which is, look, the southern district of New York didn't take this. Alvin Bragg didn't want to take this case. And then when I had his son, they decided to run for president again. That's when they picked it up. This is about defeating me. I think maybe there's something there, a story you could tell there that could be convincing. And the broader message is always the, I'm taking these attacks to protect you. Which has proven pretty effective for him. But I don't. I don't know that he's landed on the elevator pitch for this thing yet.

Jon Favreau
Well, I think both the immigration message that you mentioned and some of the other stuff, I think on Fox and Friends, the line where he said, success will be his revenge, I thought that was very telling. And all of this stuff is, I think his advisors are pushing because they know it's not popular to campaign on a promise to jail. Your political opponents and the people who held you accountable for breaking the law.

The guy hasn't been elected yet. I think they're well aware of that. He hasn't even been sentenced yet. They're probably well aware of that as well. You gotta. It's up to Judge Mershon to figure out his future here. But he's also Donald Trump, and he can't help himself. No, he's gonna make this about himself. He's gonna make this about his grievances. He's gonna make this about how badly he wants revenge. So he's not going to already, in a couple days, he's not gonna be able to maintain the discipline to deliver a message about this conviction that could somehow help him, which, by the way, I think it's probably pushing a boulder up a hill there. But nonetheless, I don't think he's gonna say the right message here.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. And part of this, right, he has to go meet with someone down at the courthouse and do a psychological evaluation. He has to talk about if he's ever been in jail before. He's this pre sentencing interview. Imagine all of the things he's saying currently could become a part of the consideration when he's sentenced. So you imagine he'd be a little more careful right now.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. I think the key here is he wants to go after Bragg, he wants to go after the judge. He wants to go after the Democrats. I did think it was funny that his own lawyer, Joe Tacopina, ex lawyer, Joe Tapioca, he said that arguing that Biden had something to do with this was the craziest thing he ever heard.

Tommy Vietor
Oh, interesting.

Jon Favreau
He's like, it's a state court. That's Trump's own lawyer.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, yeah.

Jon Favreau
I also think we remember there were headlines. One of the first things Alvin Bragg did when he took office was to announce that he was not continuing the investigation into Trump's financial fraud.

Tommy Vietor
Right.

Jon Favreau
So there's not a guy who was like, hey, Madoff was like, I'm gonna get him.

Tommy Vietor
He wasn't dying to get him. Right.

Jon Favreau
And right. He only took the case when he thought that there was enough evidence. And again, you can think that everyone is always confused by these polls that show most Americans think that maybe the charges were politically motivated, but yet they do think that Trump is also guilty. I don't think that's so weird because it is possible. We have, look, we have elected prosecutors in this country, and so it is. And prosecutors make decisions about cases all the time. Sometimes they're good decisions, sometimes they're bad decisions. That's why we have fucking juries.

Tommy Vietor
Right? And that's the key idea.

Jon Favreau
You had a jury. Even if Alvin Bragg had some political motivation, in his mind, it doesn't matter because a jury of his peers heard the evidence. A jury, by the way, that Trump's defense lawyers helped pick and approved of, ultimately, that jury heard the evidence, took 9 hours, and was like, oh, yeah, he's guilty.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, I think that's important. And Trump's trying to suggest that that jury isn't credible because of where they live. And I don't know that that flies with anybody as they all are now.

Jon Favreau
Right. All the Republicans are basically saying juries that hear cases in places that tend to vote for Democrats aren't legitimate. Prosecutors who were elected in places that tend to vote for Democrats aren't legitimate judges who are pointed in places that aren't.

The only legitimate criminal justice system is the criminal justice system that operates in deep red areas of the country now.

Tommy Vietor
That in many cases, Trump gave these judges their jobs.

Jon Favreau
Right.

Tommy Vietor
And that's what's happening in Florida.

Jon Favreau
Right. The only justice is his justice.

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E
This year has gone so quickly. What is something I'm proud of in 2024? Oh boy, there's so many things I'm proud of. Yeah, I'm proud of.

Oh, I'm proud of the fact that we finished our book. That's right, democracy or else how to save America in ten easy steps. It's available for preorder. Right now. We're trying to get on the New York Times bestseller list. That'll make me proud.

Tommy Vietor
That'd be great.

E
But I've also, I'm sure, had some interior things that made me proud as well. Not just, you know, not just tokens of material and sort of success in the world.

Tommy Vietor
Right.

E
But I couldn't think of one right now.

Tommy Vietor
Right. Yeah, sure.

E
The point is, that's why I need therapy. Why do you need therapy? You know why. Everyone needs therapy. It's important to take moments to celebrate your wins and make adjustments for the rest of the year. Therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge. Take a moment, visit betterhelp.com PSA today and get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp help.com PSA.

Jon Favreau
So I think the most disturbing, on that note, I think the most disturbing reactions have been from just about every republican politician. Like, in a pre Trump world, you can imagine Republicans reacting like their Maryland Senate candidate, former Maryland governor Larry Hogan, did before the verdict came down. He urged Americans to respect the verdict and the legal process got in a little bit of trouble. For that, we can talk about or Mitt Romney, right. Mitt Romney said, I think the DA made a political decision and he should have just settled the case against Trump, but that's as far as he went. I disagree with Mitt Romney on that. But, like, it's, you know, you could, you could imagine again in a pre Trump world Republican saying something like that and leave it alone. That's not even close to what's happening. Here's what some Republicans have said.

Tommy Vietor
Is it a good idea for the.

Speaker C
Republican Party to nominate a convicted felon?

Listen, is it a good idea that Donald Trump is the nominee?

Jon Favreau
The answer is 100% yes. I do believe the Supreme Court should step in. Obviously, this is totally unprecedented, and it's dangerous to our system. I mean, this is what you see in banana republics.

Tommy Vietor
Banana republics never stop with the guy at the top.

Jon Favreau
We have gone over a cliff in America. Will you condemn those threats?

Tommy Vietor
Well, Peter, I don't know what obscure.

Jon Favreau
Websites that you've gone to. Well, no, this is from true social.

Tommy Vietor
It's not an obscure website.

Jon Favreau
An individual says, I hope every juror is doxxed and they pay for what they have done. May God strike them dead.

Tommy Vietor
We will on November 5.

Jon Favreau
And they will pay. You can condemn that threat, can't you?

Tommy Vietor
Again, I will always say that violence has no place in our politics. Again, I don't know what obscure account.

Jon Favreau
You found on social media. It's on true social media, but I'll see his website. So we got the MAGA speaker asking the MAGA majority on the Supreme Court to overturn the jury's verdict. MAGA senators sent a letter over the weekend saying that they are not going to confirm any more judges, any more of the government's nominees, or fund the government, or do anything outside of defense on appropriations because a jury found Trump guilty. That's what they've decided. The MAGA Internet is calling for war, threatening to dox jurors, jail democrats commit violence. Seems like a totally normal reaction, huh?

Tommy Vietor
Did you see Marjorie Taylor Greene said she wants to defund New York?

Jon Favreau
I did see that.

Tommy Vietor
Not just the city, the entire state.

Jon Favreau
They're gonna defund New York.

Tommy Vietor
No federal funds for the state of New York.

Jon Favreau
How do you take this? Is this like lunatics just letting off some steam? Or do you think Republicans are going to make this verdict, like, a big focus of the campaign?

Tommy Vietor
I mean, I bet most of it is sucking up. Do you see Tim Sheehy? He's running for Senate in Montana. Put up an ad focused on Trump's prosecution.

My guess is a lot of these guys are like, all right, how do I kiss his ass the fastest and make sure that he'll be there for me later when I need fundraising or political support? That said, I mean, you and I were talking earlier in our office. Republicans are very focused on vengeance and revenge these days. Like, for example, Doctor Fauci was testifying on Capitol Hill today.

Are there a lot of people who want to revisit the pandemic right now. I don't want to. I don't know why Doctor Fauci was getting screamed at by Marjorie Taylor Greene. The thing I'm, like, worried about the most, though, is the vigilante violence because it takes one person. I mean, everyone forgets before January 6. Remember back in 2018 when that guy in Florida sent 16 pipe bombs to prominent Democrats he believed were Trump's enemies? Right. I mean, like someone like Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, they have layers of security to protect themselves from that kind of stuff. But if I were a juror or an employee in the New York court system, I would be pretty scared.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. I've been thinking about how difficult it's been to sort of convince people that a second Trump term would be very scary. Right? Not just talk about, like, you know, Trump's gonna give another tax cut and all the things that poll very well, but the idea that he could, you know, invoke the insurrection act, that he's gonna do these deportations, all this kind of stuff. And it's kind of because I think the Trump cult is most threatening and menacing when they are afraid of losing power and they are challenged. Right? This is when they lost the election. Obviously, that's what happened in January 6. This is now when Trump has been convicted. And this is when they really show them their true selves, because as long as you don't challenge them and just let them stay in power, they're gonna do all their bad shit and they're gonna, you know, be corrupt and make money, but they're just gonna just, but once they're, once they're threatened, they really show their true colors. I mean, the CEO of the federalist, Sean Davis, that guy's the worst. He said, he tweeted that he wants lists of Democrats that will go to prison. He wants prosecutors in red districts to start prosecuting Democrats. And he says that the right has a, quote, moral obligation to terrorize the left until it's destroyed. Because of this. You know, you heard Peter Alexander on Meet the Press talking to Tom Cottage about these threats. Some of them, and NBC reported this, someone said, we need to identify each juror, make them miserable, maybe even suicidal.

Another one said, 1 million armed men need to go to Washington and hang everyone. The Proud Boys have been posting the word war. And a convicted January 6 defendant, the kind that Trump wants to pardon, tweeted a photo of Alvin Bragg and a noose and said, January 20, 2025, traitors, get the rope.

Tommy Vietor
And look, that's just genuinely scary to say something like that. And also, you know, there was once a big debate about whether online commentary could lead to offline violence. Well, I think we kind of settled that one on January 6. One other thing I just wanted to quickly take on is you heard Ted Cruz there say, this is banana republic stuff. The prosecution of a former president. That is, first of all, there's, like, weird, dated terminology, though. It's a third world or banana republic stuff. It's just nonsense. It's also just wrong. Like, France, Israel, Italy, Germany, Portugal have all indicted presidents or prime ministers. Nicolas Sarkozy was convicted in 2021. Bibi Netanyahu is currently on trial for corruption and has been for years. So I think, if anything, the US, we are an outlier in how little we seem to hold these corrupt political leaders accountable.

Jon Favreau
And of all those countries you mentioned, most of them have not returned those leaders to power.

Tommy Vietor
Right?

Jon Favreau
Right.

Lula has been returned to power, but that's because his charges were thrown out. Right. His conviction was thrown out. And the other one that looms large, Berlusconi, who in 2013, when they were.

Tommy Vietor
Going to put him in jail, was like, oh, there'll be riots in the street. There will be, you know, he essentially threatened kind of an insurrection. Again, didn't happen.

Jon Favreau
None of these republican politicians or maga people on the right are making the case that what Trump did was legal. Right. They keep calling it a paperwork issue, an accounting issue. Like, what the guy did was try to win an election by paying the Enquirer to make up bad stories about his opponents he tried to kill, bad stories about himself. And then he covered the whole thing up so that the voters wouldn't know that's what he did. No one's saying that that is legal.

Tommy Vietor
Ted Cruz is like banana Republic stuff, actually, Ted, of course.

Jon Favreau
And he was a victim.

Tommy Vietor
Right.

Jon Favreau
And basically, Republicans are saying, if you're Donald Trump, you get to do that even if it's against the law, even if a jury decides it's against the law, you get to do it because you're Donald Trump. That's the argument they're making, which is this stuff is all this. I think the republican reaction to me is scarier and more menacing than even Trump's reaction, because Trump, you obviously expect to do that. And the entire Republican Party, it's very worrisome that they're doing that because they could incite violence. I also think it's the most politically damaging thing for them to do. And I think that's, you know, we're going to talk about Biden. But Biden specifically called out the attacks on the justice system, but telling voters that now not only Donald Trump, but the entire Republican Party, this whole campaign, and all they want to do is just take revenge out on their enemies. And you have a bunch of senators who are like, we're not doing our jobs anymore because we're pissed that Donald Trump got convicted of something.

People. I don't think that's gonna be very popular with voters.

Tommy Vietor
You know, I don't think an eye for an eye is the bedrock principle upon which this country was founded. I think it's a little different than that.

Jon Favreau
So let's talk about the reaction from Joe Biden and the only normal party left in american politics. Biden campaign has been calling Trump a convicted felon. They also trotted out white collar crook today. I like that. The president himself has been a bit more restrained, though he still addressed the verdict during a speech on Friday. Let's listen.

Speaker D
The jury heard five weeks of evidence. Five weeks.

And after careful deliberation, the jury reached a unanimous verdict.

They found Donald Trump guilty on all 34 felony counts.

Not only be given the opportunity, as he should, to appeal that decision, just like everyone else has that opportunity.

That's how the american system of justice works.

And it's reckless, it's dangerous, it's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict.

Jon Favreau
What did you think about the response from Biden and his campaign?

Tommy Vietor
I mean, I understood the reticence before there was a verdict to comment on this, because Biden didn't want to play into this narrative that he was directing the prosecution. And the belief that we're all innocent until proven guilty is at the heart of the us legal system and most legal systems. That said, now that we have a verdict rendered by a jury of Trump's peers, I think not only is there no way to avoid talking about it, but it's, it's politically the obvious and advantageous thing to do. It is historic. It is the biggest piece of news and negative information that we'll probably learn about Trump in this entire election cycle. And Trump is going to try to blame his own corruption on Joe Biden. So you have to be out there talking about it. I like that Biden started big. No one is above the law. This was a jury of his peers. I think constantly reminding people that Trump was convicted by a jury is key. And then in some of these other cases, I mean, it's hard for Biden to talk about this. But in some of these other cases, indictments were passed down by grand juries.

Jon Favreau
Yes.

Tommy Vietor
You know what I mean? This is not like someone at DOJ being like, this one, that one, that charge. Let's get them on this one. It's, these are citizens making these decisions. So, you know, I think the challenge is going to be, will this thing get memory holds, like, every other piece of information that's happened in this country. And I do think it's on Joe Biden and his campaign and all of us to make sure it does not.

Jon Favreau
I totally agree. I also think that I'm glad that he brought up the appeals process, too.

Tommy Vietor
Me too.

Jon Favreau
Because again, if Trump's gonna appeal this and if the New York court of Appeals overturns the conviction, like, will, of course we be personally disappointed? Yes. But am I gonna sit there and be like, that court was rigged, and, you know, the fix is in. It's like, no, accept the decision that justice was. That's justice. That's our legal system.

Tommy Vietor
Right?

Jon Favreau
Like, what are you gonna do?

Tommy Vietor
You say appeal. I say news hook for the story to keep playing out, keep it in the news.

Jon Favreau
I also think that I like that he said, no one's above the law.

It was right for Biden to call out the attacks on the judicial system. I think as we move on, there's a lot of Americans who probably way before Trump, have not had complete faith in the american judicial system.

Tommy Vietor
There's a lot to criticize, and there's.

Jon Favreau
A lot to criticize.

And I think that the key here is Donald Trump thinks he's above the law. He thinks that there's a separate set of rules for him than there is for everyone else. Right? So there's Alvin Bragg, since he took office, brought, like, dozens and dozens of these exact charges against other criminal defendants and won convictions, too. So are we to say now that those people should get jail time and those people should deal with a guilty verdict, but Donald Trump doesn't have to? I think that's the powerful argument there is, that he thinks he gets to get away with whatever he wants. Cause he's fucking Donald Trump. Trump and all the rest of the people in America, they have to abide by the law.

Tommy Vietor
Right? And I just think, big picture, if you're looking at our justice system and looking for problems and inequities, you know, you're more likely to find them when you see the draconian sentences handed down to nonviolent drug laws and not, you know, boy, this country's way too hard on white collar criminals and, you know, corrupt business people like those folks tend to skate because they can afford great lawyers.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. I mean, what's it say about our country when, you know, you can't even run for office without participating in a catch and kill scheme with the National Enquirer and then cover up the whole story?

Tommy Vietor
I know that. And that is the piece of this. Like, how dare they deny him the presidency.

Jon Favreau
Right.

Exactly. Well, that's what that was what January 6 was about.

Tommy Vietor
Right.

Jon Favreau
Right. So, you know, Democrats all seem to agree that we should be, I've seen all these headlines like, there's a debate with Democrats about whether they should talk about this or not. But when you really look at it, like everyone seems to be in agreement that Joe Biden and Democrats should be talking about this, the fact that the Republicans are nominating a convicted felon to be president, there has been some debate about how much the Biden campaign and other elected Dems should focus on it. What's your take on that?

Tommy Vietor
I mean, for other electeds, I assume it will just be case by case based on, look, Democrats are going to try to rally their base and raise money off of this. Republicans are going to do the same thing. So if you're in a more progressive state, if you're in Maryland, you're probably going to talk about this a lot, try to rally the base and get out the vote. And that's why Larry Hogan, the republican nominee there, took a much more reasonable, rational stance.

If you're John Tester in Montana, where his opponent put up an ad talking about the deep state going after Trump, it's probably not the thing he wants to talk about. He's going to talk about whatever is polling well in those issues. I think at the presidential level, like, for the Biden campaign, this should be their core argument to discredit Trump. Right? I mean, am I like, the fact that we're asking this question seems crazy.

Jon Favreau
I know. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills just like reading about this debate. Like, again, we don't have to overthink this.

Tommy Vietor
What's the counterargument?

Jon Favreau
We don't have the counterargument. Talk about gas prices, is that the negatives about Donald Trump are already baked in and that this doesn't affect people's lives as much. And so people know that Donald Trump is a bad guy. And so if you just tell them, if you remind them that he's a convicted felon, they're gonna be like, yeah, I know he's a bad guy, but I'm upset about gas prices, are upset about Gaza, or upset about whatever they're upset about with Joe Biden. And I think that I'd rather have a bad guy and a good economy than Joe Biden and the bad economy. This would be the argument from the other side. Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
And I guess, you know, you're sort of straw manning. And I appreciate the, maybe the pushback is like, well, you know, being a felon doesn't mean you're a bad guy, just means you're not fit to serve as president of the United States. Or, and this is very new information, like the, the constitutional challenges it creates. Like, is he gonna run? You know, could he be elected and then get put on house arrest? Like, how's any of this gonna work?

Jon Favreau
He's banned from 37 countries as a convicted felon. There's 37 other 38 countries, including the United States, but there's 37 countries that don't let bar convicted felons from.

Tommy Vietor
Are they, like, cool countries?

Jon Favreau
He can't buy a gun. He would be discharged from the military.

Tommy Vietor
Donald Trump, you put it that way.

Jon Favreau
Like, it's not a good look to be a convicted felon.

I also think, like, I would not say Donald Trump's if I was on the Biden campaign, which already they're doing. And if you look at all their press releases. So I'm not criticizing them for this. If I was the Biden campaign, if I was an elected Democrat, maybe some exceptions for a John Tester or someone like that in a tough race, I would not say Donald Trump's name between now and November without including the phrase convict and felon or white collar crook like the Biden campaign's doing. I would also, if I had more room to say it, I would remind people, like you said, that he was found guilty by a jury of his peers that his lawyers helped pick for a crime that the prosecutor has indicted hundreds of other defendants for. I would say all that. But, and I also think that I would tie the verdict and the fact that he's a convicted felon into a larger message about him. And it fits perfectly because the larger message is Donald Trump is only in it for himself.

Tommy Vietor
Exactly.

Jon Favreau
He is only running to keep himself out of jail. He is only running so that he can keep himself from being broke.

He does not give a shit about you. At every opportunity he's ever had in life, he throws people under the bus who are very loyal to him. See Michael Cohen and the people who testified against him at trial. All he cares about is himself that's why he's in it. And if you elect him, you might think he's going to help you, but you will be disappointed just like everyone else in his life has been. And that is the kind of person he is, a con man and now he is a convicted felon. I would make that argument.

Tommy Vietor
I totally, I think the fact that it folds so perfectly into this broader narrative that Biden's already taking is what makes this, what makes it key. This is not just some data point that shows that he's like kind of a gross or crass person or untoward. No, like, this fits in perfectly with these reports. I think it was the Washington Post where he's going to oil and gas lobbyists and being like, give me a million bucks and I'll slash your regulations. He's calling donors and trying to get them to ten x their donation to like super pacs and the RNC and offering political favors to them. This is bread and butter corruption, and people do not like that.

Jon Favreau
There's just a story, we're going to talk about Gaza in a second, but there's just a story that Miriam Adelson, Sheldon Adelson's wife, who's like one of the richest women in the world, now, said she's ready to donate to Trump and go all in on Trump. But her price is him coming out for complete annexation of the West bank. Yeah, that's the kind of presidency you get. That's the kind of pay to play leadership you get in a country where there's an autocrat as a leader. Right?

Tommy Vietor
Pay to play.

Jon Favreau
This is what authoritarians do. They just, they get into office and they make themselves rich, they help their family, they help their friends, and everyone else can fuck off. And that's what this verdict shows for Donald Trump. I think Trump obviously gives Democrats a lot of material to work with, aside from being a convicted felon, which you shouldn't need more. But I guess, I guess we do. Even in that Fox and Friends interview, he said quite a few alarming things that didn't get as much attention.

Here are just a couple.

Tommy Vietor
Do you think the public will have the appetite, the stomach for watching deportations on their television screen?

Speaker C
Well, that question is so, so great and so tough. So you'll get rid of if ten really bad ones and one, you know, beautiful mother, and it'll become a story, then it's going to always be tough. It's not going to be easy. When they say that the seas will rise over the next 400 years, one 8th of an inch, you know, which means basically you have a little more beachfront property. Okay. There's not woke in the military. There's woke at the top. They want there to be woke. But these guys aren't meant for.

Jon Favreau
Are you going to fire those generals? The woke generals at the top? Because people have been talking about this.

Speaker C
Yes. I would get rid of them. Yeah, but see, now I know them. I didn't know them before, but, you know, I came in. What do I know? I was a New York real estate person. But no, I'd fire them. I would fire them. You can't have woke military. We're going to cut the department of Education, let it be run locally. We have this.

Tommy Vietor
You mean end the department of Education ended.

Speaker C
Other than to have a little tiny coordination. You know, it would be nice to make sure that everybody, everybody's teaching English. You know, let them learn English. Okay.

Jon Favreau
I love this.

Also the Department of Interior, too. No more park. No more parks.

Tommy Vietor
Enough for that.

Jon Favreau
Biden campaign has been pushing these around, but are there any you think are particularly damaging to Trump? That's a lot of crazy shit in that interview, aside from the verdict stuff.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. I think I would focus on the fact that this man chose to spend 90 minutes of his time with these three idiot fox and friend weekend anchors. Like, can you think of anything worse?

Jon Favreau
Yeah, the b team.

I didn't even realize there was a fox and friends b team. A second string fox and friends.

An ex real world star there.

Rachel Campos.

Speaker C
Oh, right.

Tommy Vietor
From Boston, right?

Jon Favreau
Yeah. Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
I like that season, too. What's her husband's name? He's in concert.

Jon Favreau
Sean Duffy. Yeah, Sean Duffy from Wisconsin. Is he still there? I don't know.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, he was like. He's like a logger or something.

Jon Favreau
It was a wild interview. I can't say that I watched the full hour and a half.

Tommy Vietor
The response to the deportation question, what a beautiful, tough question. We have to get rid of one. Beautiful. He's imagining it and sort of fantasizing about it.

Jon Favreau
It's also very damaging because this is exactly what we need to get people to understand about the deportation plans that he has. Because I think a lot of people in the country think it is newer entrants from the border, people who've just crossed the border. But this is massive raids in cities trying to deport people who've been here for decades, who have families here, who are deeply enmeshed in our communities. And you can imagine I talked to Ron Brownstein about this for the wilderness, and he did a lot of reporting on this, like these deportation forces who can either be local police or national Guard or the military, probably, right. Going house to house, raiding them, raiding offices, workplaces.

Kids are going to school, watching their parents be let out in handcuffs and deported. This is just, it's chaos. And they're gonna. And Stephen Miller's bragging about it.

Tommy Vietor
No, they love it.

Jon Favreau
They're gonna do it. Charlie Kirk's bragging about it. All their friends.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. I mean, I think, unfortunately, far more voters than we'd like to believe as a, generally identify with Trump's immigration views. But that is a bridge too far, and that is scary for a lot of people.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. But I think all of these are of a piece, all of the things that he said there of what we were just talking about. Right. Like, the immigrants he knows aren't getting deported. Right. Melania is not getting deported.

Tommy Vietor
Right.

Jon Favreau
His kids won't be affected by eliminating the Department of Education. Climate change probably will mean more beachfront property for him.

Tommy Vietor
It's like, yeah, he has Mar a Lago underwater. We gotta figure that out.

Jon Favreau
But, like, he's not getting hurt by climate change. He's rich as hell, right? So it's like he wants loyal generals again who are gonna do whatever he tells them to do. I keep saying Mike Flynn, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Mike Flynn, QAnon guy, it's gonna be.

Tommy Vietor
Flynn is back.

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
I'm starting to regret getting a cameo from him, putting money in his pocket.

Jon Favreau
But again, it's all, it's, you know, as long as Trump's okay, Trump's gonna be okay. If he's president, the rest of us will not, because he doesn't give a shit.

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Tommy Vietor
When booking with other vacation rental apps. Sounds like this. This place doesn't look like the pictures.

Jon Favreau
Is there a door behind all those spiders?

Tommy Vietor
It's time to try one. That sounds more like a vacation. Ah, this is perfect. Relax.

Jon Favreau
You booked a vrbo.

Alright. We should also note that Hunter Biden's criminal trial has begun in Delaware. The president's son has been charged with lying about his drug use on a form he filled out to buy a gun in 2018. If convicted, he could face years in prison. Hunter will also be tried in September here in California for failing to pay his taxes. In response, President Biden issued a statement attacking the Trump appointed judge who's overseeing the trial, as well as the Trump appointed prosecutor who brought the charges against Hunter. Again, just kidding. He said that he loves his son, he's proud of his recovery from substance abuse, and that as president he doesn't and won't comment on federal cases.

Don't you think it's weird that Biden rigged the justice system to get Trump, but he couldn't spare his own son?

Tommy Vietor
He's very bad at rigging. It is the fact that you can have a bunch of Trump fans who consume this daily meal of content about how the Justice Department is rigged against Trump.

And then their dessert is, like, fantasizing about Hunter Biden going to jail. It's hard to compute cognitive dissonance. It's like they want to live in reality, where all the facts kind of warp around Trump, like gravity, and they're just, like, happy to hear what they want to hear. I don't know, maybe, like, the gross political calculus. Who knows? Maybe this will convince some people that Joe Biden is actually not controlling the DOJ and telling them who to indict. But, like, mostly it's just a really sad story about addiction and a family that has gone through some terrible stuff and now is going to have it all dragged out because of this case.

Jon Favreau
The family, the president elected, Democrats. No one is talking about this case the way that Republicans have talked about the 88 felony charges and now 34 convictions against Donald Trump. Because Democrats respect the criminal justice system and the legal system and the process in this country where a jury decides your guilt or your innocence. And it's just like, you don't hear Democrats talking about how the system is rigged against Bob Menendez. Democratic Senator Bob Menendez, who's on trial. Henry Cuellar was indicted. Another democratic congressman. You don't hear Democrats complaining about Henry Cuellar. And we tried to primary his ass, like, five years ago.

And the president's son, the president's own Justice Department, through a Trump appointed prosecutor, brings charges against Hunter. And now there's a judge appointed by Trump. And Joe Biden is like, all right, I'm gonna let it. It's probably killing Joe Biden.

Tommy Vietor
Oh, it's his.

Jon Favreau
This is his, like, last remaining son. You know, Beau died. He's lost his daughter and his first wife. I mean, like, the tragedy. It's.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. And I don't mean to sound crass about it by focusing on the politics first. I mean, first of all, this is a guy who allegedly lied on a background check form, and he could get real jail time because of it. I mean, it's kind of shocking that that is the penalty. That said, like, we have a lot of stupid laws that give you a lot of jail time for things where you shouldn't get jail time in this country.

But, yes, I mean, I think it is very clear that Hunter's addiction has been agonizing for Joe Biden and for his family. And the thing he fears most is losing another child. And I can't imagine what it is like having this in the background of your life. No, that's not to excuse or absolve Hunter Biden of things he has done or making mistakes, but it's just on a human level, it's awful.

Jon Favreau
But again, and to take it back into politics, unfortunately, like, do you wanna live in a country where even the president's own son can be held accountable by the president's own Justice Department for breaking the law?

Tommy Vietor
I do.

Jon Favreau
And the president says that let's that go forward and just says, I love my son. And, you know, that's all there is. Or a country where this guy who's been a convicted felon is like, no, because it was me. I wanna throw away the charges and everything's rigged. And you shouldn't trust the justice system unless it's in a deep red area.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. And then Barron hosts the Hillary Clinton military tribunal down the road.

Jon Favreau
Upcoming attractions. That's what our kids are going to have to do.

Tommy Vietor
Lock her up.

Jon Favreau
All right, before we go, I did want to get your thoughts on the latest Gaza news. So in the same speech where Biden talked about Trump's guilty verdict, turns out it was just a Trump guilty verdict. Topper on a speech about Gaza.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. Who doesn't want to write a Gaza war plan speech with an indictment? TOPPER right.

Jon Favreau
Poor Biden speech.

Tommy Vietor
Right.

Jon Favreau
So the president called for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza and endorsed a new israeli proposal to bring the hostages home and end the war. He also said he urged the leadership of Israel to get behind this proposal. Let's listen.

Speaker D
I want to level with you today as to where we are and what might be possible, but I need your help.

Everyone who wants peace now must raise their voices and let the leaders know they should take this deal.

Work to make it real, make it lasting, forge a better future out of the tragic terror attack and war.

It's time to begin this new stage for the hostages to come home, for Israel to be secure, for the suffering to stop.

It's time for this war to end, for the day after to begin.

Jon Favreau
Why do you think Biden chose to endorse this proposal and make it public for the first time the day after.

Tommy Vietor
Donald Trump was found guilty on the timing? I know the speech has been in the works for a while. I talked to some folks at the White House. I think the proposal went over to Hamas the night before he gave the speech. So maybe some of the thinking was, look, this is now in the wild. Maybe we should just get ahead and frame it. I do think the broader goal of making this proposal public is to put pressure on Hamas and the israeli government to accept it and then try to rally international support from other countries behind getting this deal done so that everybody's making calls to the Egyptians, the Qataris, whoever they can figure out to talk to, to try to say accept it. Now, will that work? It's hard to say at this point.

Jon Favreau
Now, you said putting pressure on the israeli government. It's the israeli government's proposal, but it seems like they didn't want to make it public just yet because Netanyahu, does he want some willow to potentially not support this proposal because some of the right wing, the even further right wing characters in his own government don't accept the proposal?

Tommy Vietor
He is a duplicitous individual, and I rarely believe anything he says. I think the broader political challenges are one, Hamas has to accept it. They're a terrorist organization. They don't want Israel to exist. They clearly launched the October 7 attacks knowing that there would be a massive military response and retaliation. So their logic is hard to predict, especially since the decision makers are not the political leaders who are living in foreign countries like Qatar. They're like guys in tunnels in Gaza. But on the israeli side, you have a bunch of super right wing ministers and politicians and political parties who want Israel to stay in Gaza permanently and occupy it. Some of them want to rebuild settlements that were taken out of Gaza in the two thousands. And Netanyahu has built a coalition that includes some of these characters, some of the most odious people in israeli political life, like Itmar Ben Guvier and Smotritz, the finance minister. And so he is facing a constant threat from those guys to pull out of the coalition which topples the government, which means he's no longer in power. So it's like clearly the israeli war cabinet. It's the more sort of serious people have agreed to this deal and they put it forward to see if Hamas would agree to it. But I think Netanyahu doesn't want to concede any of that publicly before everything is done. Right, because they want to say no. They just want to stick to these broader principles of total victory over Hamas, which is not an achievable goal.

Jon Favreau
And it seems like Biden then, by making this public and giving the speech, also kind of wanted to box BB in a little bit.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, I think Biden wants to box BB in and see if he can put pressure on him. I also think, look, their team has been working constantly for months to try to broker a ceasefire agreement, both short term and longer term. And also this saudi israeli normalization deal that they think could lead to a palestinian state ultimately. So there's all this work happening behind the scenes. But those efforts aren't always public, and obviously none of it has been successful. So I think part of it is like, let's just lay out what we believe. Let's put forward what we're working on. Let's see if that can help us get it done and accomplish this goal and at least make this private diplomatic effort that we're doing public.

Jon Favreau
How hopeful are the various parties and factions that this deal could actually happen?

Tommy Vietor
I just. I don't know. I mean, it's so hard. You have to guess.

Jon Favreau
You have to guess what Hamas will do.

Tommy Vietor
But I don't know. At some point, this war has to end. Hopefully it's sooner than later. And I don't know.

Jon Favreau
I saw a bunch of other governments put out statements supporting the deal, and then I think the Biden administration is now trying to get a UN resolution going that's based on the deal as well. So hopefully the pressure continues. Yeah, it's a full court press you do sort of worry about. And I guess Hamas initially reacted like, oh, we're looking at the proposal favorably, but who the fuck knows?

Tommy Vietor
Well, the problem is a lot of the initial reactions are from all these political leaders living abroad, but then the folks who will actually decide are in Gaza, it takes days to get to them.

Jon Favreau
So in related news, BB has accepted an invitation from congressional leaders, Republicans and Democrats, to address a joint session of Congress. We don't know when yet. There was some reporting that was June 13. Doesn't seem like that's the date now. But around there, some Democrats are saying they'll skip the speech and criticize the invitation, including Bernie Sanders, who called Netanyahu a war criminal.

Why do you think Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries went along with this one?

Tommy Vietor
I am just beyond frustrated and confused by this wild.

Okay, I'm going to float some scenarios. You tell me what you make of them. The most charitable scenario, right. You have Schumer and Hakim Jefferies, who fundamentally think Israel is one of our closest allies. They're in what they feel like is this existential fight. So you invite the prime minister from Israel to come address Congress. It sucks that it's BB Netanyahu, but this is not about individuals. This is about two countries. That's the most charitable explanation I can think of.

Jon Favreau
It's just. You don't have to.

Right.

Tommy Vietor
That's a great rejoinder, Jon.

Jon Favreau
It's not like it's a great rejoinder. It's not like it's a pre planned thing that you are now, taking away, it's like, it's a special thing to invite a foreign leader to come to the US.

Tommy Vietor
It doesn't help them win the war.

Jon Favreau
Right? And it's not like, it's not like anyone saying, Chuck Schumer should go out there, which he already did, and denounce Netanyahu, called on him to step down.

I just like, would you invite Donald Trump? Would you invite the crazy right wing racist who's corrupt in your own country to address Congress?

Tommy Vietor
Victor Orban? No. Okay. Less charitable version that could be. As you just mentioned, Schumer gave this speech several weeks back where he basically said Netanyahu should go, should no longer be prime minister.

You could imagine. And he got a bunch of blowback from that. You could imagine. The Democratic Party generally is worried about losing support from jewish voters because of criticism from Democrats of Israel's conduct in this war. So they decide, okay, let's join on this invite with Mitch McConnell and Speaker Johnson. Invite Netanyahu to come address Congress so we don't give them, like, a political issue. I don't know, maybe I'm making this up, but that could be another rationale.

Jon Favreau
It's also like, we're not the UK parliament here. We don't have question time.

You can go back and forth with Netanyahu. You're just giving him the stage to say whatever he wants to say. It's not like Netanyahu is coming to the US. And Schumer and Jeffries were like, yeah, we'll meet with Netanyahu. I'd be like, yeah, of course. Then you have an exchange. You go back and forth with him, you debate him. I think protesting that meeting or saying you're not gonna take the meeting, you.

Tommy Vietor
Use that meeting to pressure him.

Jon Favreau
Right. That seems sort of silly, but a speech to Congress is just that. It's a speech to Congress. You don't get to talk back. You just get to sit there and listen, and it's gonna get broadcast everywhere.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, I personally think this is just a massive error. And, like, I'm offended and shocked by it. It is totally unforced. Netanyahu, when he gave a joint session speech in 2015, he used it to attack President Obama over the Iran nuclear deal, which, by the way, Trump later pulled out of, which was one of the biggest diplomatic self owns in recent history. Netanyahu clearly wants Trump to be president because Trump gave him everything he wanted the first time around, diplomatically.

Netanyahu could use this as a political lifeline back home to show, hey, you might hate me. I have taken no responsibility for October 7. I won't own any of the mistakes that were made that day. But I still got juice with Washington. You could see him making that argument. But even before October 7, this is the man who was trying to shred Israel's judicial system to help himself evade accountability for his brazen corruption. He's a bad guy. He's a bad leader. This is a terrible decision.

Jon Favreau
And I'm sure they say, well, you know, Israel's an ally. Like, would you have MBS come address a joint session after he, I know we're doing, I know we're doing the normalization, but that is a different thing. You know, I would not go if I was a democr, I would absolutely.

Tommy Vietor
Not go to the, Bernie Sanders is absolutely right. I would not go listen to this man.

Jon Favreau
We talk about, like, things, things to protest that are effective and not like, if I was a democratic member of Congress, if I was, I would protest Bibi Netanyahu giving the speech for sure.

Tommy Vietor
And one other thing just to know is like, progressives in Israel are furious about this decision. They feel like they were hung out to dry. And you've got Netanyahu coming to Congress, but he hasn't found the time to meet with all these families of hostages and communities that were affected by the October 7 attacks. I mean, this is a guy who pitched himself as mister security. He was a bad guy. He was tough, but he could keep you safe. And this terrorist attack happened on his watch and he won't take any accountability for it. And to have him come and spin for 30 minutes in front of the US Congress is just a terrible decision.

Jon Favreau
On the other hand, it is entirely consistent with republicans now elevating criminals.

Tommy Vietor
That's right.

Jon Favreau
Corrupt politicians and right wing autocrats here at home and all over the world.

Tommy Vietor
That's true.

Jon Favreau
That's just, that's the world they want to live in right now.

Tommy Vietor
Cheers to that.

Jon Favreau
Right?

Tommy Vietor
Cheers to bringing kids into this world.

Jon Favreau
Netanyahu, Trump, Orban. That's, that's, that's what gets the republican party going these days. Perfect. Anyway, on that note, good to have you back.

Tommy Vietor
Great to be back.

Jon Favreau
Before we go, some good news. We've talked a lot about bad news. We've got some incredible news to share. Thanks to all of your amazing support. Votesave America hit $1 million total raised.

Tommy Vietor
Wow.

Jon Favreau
Through the anxiety relief program this past weekend. And it's all because of your generosity. But they're not done yet. There's still a lot of ground to cover and they need your help to get there. Every recurring monthly donation helps to support grassroots organizations and down ballot races. So if you haven't already, please consider donating to the anxiety relief program today and helping vote save America make the biggest impact when it's needed most. And to everyone who's already donated, thank you. Let's keep the momentum going and continue making a difference together. Visit votesaveamerica.com now to get involved. This message has been paid for by Votesave America. You can learn more@votesaveamerica.com and this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. Also, strict scrutiny. Fantastic podcast media. Three brilliant hosts, very close Melissa Murray, Kate Shaw, Leah Lippmann. Decode the drama and break down everything you need to know about what's going on with the supreme court and the culture around it, and they also keep you sane in the process. You just think of it like a group chat where three of your smartest friends routinely drag Clarence Thomas to hell.

Tommy Vietor
And Sam Alito.

Jon Favreau
And Sam Alito. And Sam Alito. New episodes release every Monday wherever you get your podcast and now on YouTube. Plus, keep an eye out for bonus episodes whenever SCOTUS tries to set the nation back another 60 years.

We'll have a new episode for you on Wednesday.

Dan is hosting with Adisu Demessi Nice, our friend DC. So they're gonna hook together from the Bay Area in person in the Bay. And then Dan and I will be back for an episode on Friday. So have a good week, everyone.

If you want to get ad free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our friends of the Pod subscription community@crooked.com. friends and if you're already doom scrolling, don't forget to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more. Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review. Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producers are Sol Rubin and Farah Safari. Kira Joachim is our senior producer. Reed Shurlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kanter is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer is our head of news in programming. Matt de Grote is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Mia Kellman, David Toles, Kirill Pallaviv, and Molly lobel you can live out your MasterChef dreams when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel, connect with skilled professional to get all your home projects done well, visit angie.com. you can do this when you angie that.

New Polling on Trump's Felony Conviction

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