Bidin' His Time

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What's up, Madison?

Welcome to pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

Erin Haynes
I'm Erin Haynes. And I can use my microphone.

John Lovett
I'm John Lovett.

Ben Wickler
I'm Ben Wickler.

Tommy Vietor
The best party share in the country.

Clap for that. I'm Tommy Vitor.

Dan Pfeiffer
I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

Jon Favreau
We have a great show for you tonight. Your fantastic senator who is going to win in November. Tammy Baldwin is here.

And we're going to talk a little bit more about the republican convention that just wrapped up with two people who braved MAGA mania in Milwaukee.

Aaron is the editor at large of the 19th and of course, your democratic party chair. As Tommy said, the best in the country, Ben Wickler.

All right, let's start with the RNC, which had everything, election deniers, convicted felons, domestic abusers, cute dogs and dog killers, a running mate who once called his boss America's Hitler. But somehow the republican party is in the strongest position they've been in in a decade despite being massively outspent. Three points ahead nationally, four points ahead in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and here in Wisconsin, ahead by even more in other swing states. And it's all because of this once in a generation talent.

Donald Trump
Thank you. Kid rock, sometimes referred to as Bob.

Was Dana good?

Was he good?

You know, he was on probably the only vacation he's had in about maybe ever. So he got on a plane. He got here a little while ago. Now he's going to get on the plane in a little while and he's going to go back home to his wife.

But they're great. They may call that entertainment. I know about entertainment, but when he used to lift a 350 pound man over his shoulders and then bench press him two rows into the audience.

I say maybe entertainment, but he is one strong son of a gun. Followed by Eric.

What was that all about? And Green Bay is going to have a good team this year, right? They're going to have a good team.

I watched the other day on a show called Deface the Nation. Has anyone seen it? If they would ever win this election, I hate to even say that. We will have our next republican convention in Venezuela because it will be safe. The longest runways, most powerful, hardened, thickened runways.

We have to take the bow and we have to make it a little nicer and a little point at the top instead of a flat nose.

Jon Favreau
That was his convention speech in front of tens of millions of people. The easiest speech in politics. You just get a free audience teleprompter. That's what he did. All right, the four of us gave our quick reactions last night. Aaron and Ben, since both of you were there, I'd love to hear what you thought of both Trump's speech and the convention as a whole. Aaron, let's start with you.

Erin Haynes
Yeah, I mean, I think to echo the former president, what was that all about? By the time I got to the end of that speech and shout out to everybody that stayed awake for that speech and is here with us tonight. Really appreciate you. I know that was not easy.

John Lovett
Yeah.

Erin Haynes
I mean, that was probably the most subdued part of the whole week, though, to be honest. Cause I was there for most of the convention, and it was a big party. Like the grando party threw a big party this week. They are feeling good. I mean, kicking it off on Monday when you had literally Aileen Cannon saying, you know what, dropping this case, they're going in with a lot of energy. And the momentum just built every single day as they're watching Joe Biden still on the ropes and their guy, you know, who apparently was divinely intervened into, you know, to join them and accept the nomination for the Republican Party's. Yeah. Presidential bid. So they're riding high. They were in high spirits, you could tell, all week. And it just kind of culminated in, yeah, whatever.

Jon Favreau
We all watched last night some weird shit. They felt pretty. Yeah, they seem pretty cocky.

Erin Haynes
Oh, yeah. I mean, cocky is probably the accurate word. I mean, they, last night might as well have been an election night for them. I mean, that's where they are. They feel like God himself wants Trump to be president and as endorsed by Franklin Graham and Hulk Hogan. So, you know, I don't know that's all you need.

John Lovett
The alpha and the omega.

Jon Favreau
Ben, you were there, too. What'd you think?

Ben Wickler
It was a fascinating convention. Most of all, to me, because of what they did not talk about.

There have been, I think, three really huge things that have happened since 2020. The first is that President Biden and Vice President Harris have done a killer job. They've passed a ton of legislation, they've had the best economy in the world.

Yeah, weirdly, no one pointed that out at the republican convention. I don't understand why. It's right there. The second thing was that after Trump lost in Wisconsin and the other states, he tried to overthrow the government of the United States and violent insurrection that killed multiple people and had his supporters trying to club police officers with american flag poles and then parading the confederate flag through the Capitol that Trump has been campaigning on, like immediately pardoning the January 6 hostages, as he calls them. That was gone from the stage as though it had never happened. And then the third is that the Supreme Court justices that Donald Trump appointed for that purpose ripped away a fundamental freedom from half of America. And they didn't mention that at the republican convention. So it was kind of like the convention that seems fine because no one mentions the giant, gaping problem that everyone is actually thinking about. And the tell for me was that Trump. I mean, the biggest news that actually came out of the convention was Trump's choice of a vice presidential nominee, whose two qualifications were his support for 100% abortion ban and his stated willingness to shred our constitution in order to give Trump a dictatorship. And that long after the lights have faded and the gold balloons have been popped in the Pfizer forum, that is going to be an anchor that Trump has dropped through the bottom of his boat.

He has chosen the person who confirms our most important and most effective argument in this election. They're the party of trying to rip away freedom and destroy our democracy. And they have to own that.

Jon Favreau
Yeah, I think someone went through the transcript of all the speeches. I think abortion was not mentioned once in the entire convention. They tried to avoid the election denial, but Trump couldn't help himself in his speech because he was riffing, as we know.

Here's how the New York Times sums up Trump's challenge going forward.

His success will depend on whether for the final 15 weeks of the campaign, he can contain his self destructive tendencies and temper his preference for vengeance and unpopular hard right policies?

Dan, will Trump's success depend on maintaining the sense of discipline that he's famous for?

Dan Pfeiffer
I feel like the witness is being led here.

I mean, we have read all of these stories over the last few months, as Susie Wiles and Chris Lacivita, Trump's campaign co managers, have gone around extolling their virtues about how disciplined the Trump campaign has held. This is more professional than the previous Trump campaigns, which are run by basically the dregs of the Fox News Green room.

And I think that is actually an accurate representation of how they've run this race. They've run a disciplined race, they've run a strategic race. They've been very smart about how they thought about the messaging and the allocation of resources. But there's one big problem with the Trump campaign, and that problem is Donald Trump.

I mean, we saw that they raised.

Jon Favreau
They solved almost everything.

Dan Pfeiffer
That may be the unsolvable problem, but, like, their convention was the convention of a party that desperately wants to win. And they, as Ben pointed out, they didn't talk about abortion and they didn't talk about the big lie, which are the two things that make you a Republican in this day and age. If you do not believe and or at least propagate the idea, the false idea, that Donald Trump was illegitimately denied the election, then you were exiled from the party. Yet not a single person said that until the one guy who would suffer the most politically were that idea to be brought up, stood up on stage and brought it up himself. Like, even, even think about this. They pitched this idea. They were so proud of it that he would never mention Joe Biden's name. It's a new post shooting Trump.

And then he did it. He could not not do the, he asked him to do one thing and he could not do it. And so that, like, the takeaway from that speech is this guy is so goddamn beatable.

John Lovett
Right?

Dan Pfeiffer
We can absolutely do it.

Jon Favreau
So love it. We were talking last night about how Trump's view might play with undecided voters to the extent that undecided voters were watching that speech. Turns out the times and CNN talked to some, and the reviews were not great.

A 21 year old from Milwaukee said, and this person had been considering Trump.

It was just insane to me, and it made me feel really uncomfortable.

A retiree from Pennsylvania said, quote, he tried to be unifying at first, but then got on his high horse at the end.

And a Michigan voter said it felt like listening to a fourth grader's essay who had to meet a word count and was just kind of using fillers.

Erin Haynes
That was my Uber driver.

That sounds familiar.

Jon Favreau
Voters are great.

What do you make of those reactions and why do you think those folks are still undecided?

Donald Trump
Yeah.

John Lovett
First of all, I've been that fourth grader in some sense. I'll always be that fourth grader.

Jon Favreau
Larger font, bigger margin.

John Lovett
Yeah, you gotta bring them. But the thing is, you know, you could get margin blindness. And then you turn in the paper and the teacher turns it back and be like, I see what you tried to do here. And you realize you squeezed it too much because you got accustomed to it.

Also, it's gonna be a loose show we've been doing, recording every single night. Do you think Ben Wickler would have more credibility if he wasn't wearing flip flops?

Best party chair in the country.

How good would you be in a fucking closed toed shoe?

Think about all the door knocking we could do. If you're dragging your feet along the ground with your toes in the world.

Ben Wickler
I think we can always get better. That's what's great about this country. It's an opportunity.

Jon Favreau
He's so on message.

John Lovett
Unbelievable. No, but look, I think when we heard that, you know, this is going to be a change Trump, this is going to be a different Trump. I think it was a recognition that this campaign, which is smart, understands that barring some big transformation in who Donald Trump is and the public perception of him, people know who Donald Trump is. They don't like him. They don't want him to be president. They also are really unhappy with their choice between both Biden and Trump. And so the reason you have undecided people turning on this godforsaken speech, this 90 minutes of bloviating, unstructured rambling, talking about Dana White's flight logistics. By the way, Dana White flew in.

Now he's gonna be here and then he's gonna fly home.

That's just called going somewhere.

It is just a reminder that the question is not whether Donald Trump can lose. The question is, can we win? Right? It's, can we do what we have to do to bring the people back to us?

Jon Favreau
Tommy. President Biden released a statement today on Trump's speech that said he, quote, avoided mentioning his project 2025 agenda, but still flaunted the worst of MAGA extremism during the convention. Trump senior advisor Chris Lacivita told Jonathan Martin of Politico that project 2025 is, quote, a pain in the ass to them.

Tommy Vietor
Points for honesty.

Jon Favreau
I know.

Is this the big vulnerability for Republicans over the next 15 weeks?

Tommy Vietor
I think so. I mean, I think we should just talk about what it is for a second, which is, it's the playbook for authoritarianism. It's a turnkey operation for an authoritarian state. If this thing is 900 pages, it's backed by a $22 million budget. So this is not a bunch of liberals, you know, puffing something up, manufacturing a controversy for a campaign. This is a real threat. And it covers policy personnel. So they're vetting. They have a database of people vetted not for qualifications, but for loyalty to Donald Trump. They have training for the next generation of MAGA extremists, and there is a first 180 day script for Donald Trump to follow. And by the way, I think he implemented, like, 60% of the Heritage Foundation's policies in his first term. So they want to do things like take full control of federal agencies. They want to push out qualified civil servants and replace them with the vetted MAGA extremists. They want the FBI to directly report to the president of the United States. You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to see how that could go south. And by the way, the FBI has never been run by a Democrat in its history. This is the most conservative organization in the government, yet it's still not conservative enough for Donald Trump. Should make you think for a second.

They're planning mass deportations. They want to ban medical abortion. They want to ban mifepristone. They want to roll back lgbt rights. They want to basically just take control of the entire government and magify it. So this is a massive, sweeping change to the federal government. It's a massive invasion in our privacy.

It is not libertarian in any way. It's a huge overreach. So I do think this is something. Project 2025, it wasn't an issue that I think the Biden campaign identified. They noticed that it was going super viral on TikTok when people were talking about it. So this is an issue that was identified by voters. This is something voters were organically concerned about, because it touches. Touches every part of our life, from abortion to criminalizing porn. Maybe those are related, I have no idea. But, like. So I do think this is something we should be hammering every single day from now until election day. And the value here is, it doesn't matter who's at the top of the ticket. Project 2025 is gonna affect all of us as citizens equally, whether it's Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, or somebody else.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. And we were, like, we were canvassing today, and some of the folks we were talking to just brought up project 2025 organically. First door we were at.

Dan Pfeiffer
Yeah, first door we were at. We knocked on the door. We said, what issues do you think about this election? She said, saving democracy and stopping project 2025. It's like, we'll mark you down as a one.

Jon Favreau
It's happening. It's happening.

Tommy Vietor
Wanna hug you?

Jon Favreau
Okay, when we come back, a game.

John Lovett
And we're back.

Have you heard the good news?

He is risen.

And he has some pretty crazy ideas about love. Namely, if you don't love him, he'll storm the Capitol.

Anyway, it's time for a game we call. Okay, stop.

And this.

And this will be our RNC dear leader edition.

Let's roll the clip.

Donald Trump
At our club championship in March, I watched President Trump hit a perfect 210 yard four iron to within 10ft of the hole.

Yep. He needed to sink that putt to win.

John Lovett
Do you think he sank it?

Donald Trump
You better believe you sunk that putt.

John Lovett
Okay, stop.

I love this guy.

We're lucky he's not the nominee. This is a 300 electoral vote getting guy. This guy rules. Best host at the wedding. This guy.

I love him.

Tommy Vietor
I think that guy spoke at the North Korea Palliburra meeting.

John Lovett
Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
You know Kim Jong un?

Tammy Baldwin
Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
You got a 19 on 18 holes.

John Lovett
Pretty good. Pretty good.

Erin Haynes
No. 210 yard for iron within 10ft of the hole. I'm like, here, you need these, first of all. But also golf. We're talking about golf. They love talking about golf. Joe Biden's biggest electoral weakness is golf.

Tammy Baldwin
Sure.

Jon Favreau
That was also one of two speakers who talked about golf. There was like, the manager of Trump Jarral.

John Lovett
Yes.

Erin Haynes
Oh, yes. And how Trump is empowering women empowered her.

That is also the Donald Trump that we don't know, apparently is a Trump that empowers women. Just FYI.

John Lovett
A full speech about managing a resort.

I liked it. All right, let's see. Let's see the rest.

Donald Trump
Donald Trump, 21 club championships.

Joe Biden, zero.

John Lovett
Okay, stop.

I love this. Repeatedly winning club champion at the country club you own would be like me winning crooked media employee of the month, which I have month after month because I am the best.

Tommy Vietor
Don't clap for that.

Ben Wickler
Most Americans own a couple golf courses and have been the club champion a couple times. So it's just weird to have a president who doesn't own a bunch of golf courses. It's not relatable for people.

John Lovett
Definitely keep rolling.

Tammy Baldwin
Proverbs 28 reads, the wicked flee, though no one pursues.

Angie Hicks
But the righteous are as bold as a lion.

Tammy Baldwin
And that truly epitomizes Donald Trump. He is a lion.

Jon Favreau
On Saturday, the devil came to Pennsylvania holding a rifle.

John Lovett
But an american lion got back up on his feet and he roared, okay, stop.

What?

What are we doing here?

This is a job about sending Medicare checks and, like, paving fucking roads. American lion. What are we talking about?

Dan Pfeiffer
Love it. As Tim Scott's number one supporter, say.

Jon Favreau
Here, did you work on that speech?

John Lovett
Oh, you've never been disappointed by someone you thought was great, like Tim Scott before?

Jon Favreau
Poor Tim Scott's still doing this. He doesn't really get considered for vp. He does this whole thing. He's still there doing the. He's roaring at the convention.

Erin Haynes
He is roaring.

Jon Favreau
Yes, roaring for Donald Trump.

Tommy Vietor
He's so extra brutal.

John Lovett
I. Yeah, he got engaged.

At least he'll have time to focus on planning the wedding. And true, I'm sure he'll be very interested in picking out the invitations and the flowers and things and all the other fun parts of planning a wedding. When you get engaged, the Monday before you endorse.

Let's keep rolling.

We cannot know what the future holds.

Angie Hicks
But we know damn sure who holds the future in his hands, because God.

John Lovett
Is not finished with him yet. Okay, stop.

Jon Favreau
Server just came up to God's table, said, are you finished with that yet?

God said, yeah, I'm still gonna nibble.

John Lovett
I just.

Erin Haynes
Yeah, God was not finished with Sarah Huckabee Sanders apparently either. You know, I mean, look, don't know if there's new Donald Trump, but there was definitely a new Sarah Huckabee Sanders on that stage. And also, I mean, you know, hey, the future looks very huge when you see it in his two little hands on the stage.

John Lovett
His tiny little hands. It's.

I don't.

The God isn't finished with him yet thing. It's like, okay, like, God isn't finished with Putin yet either, I guess, by the same standard, or people that spit their gum in urinals, even though there's a garbage can right there, you know, somebody's got to clean it up.

Erin Haynes
God is still working on me. I mean, hey, who among us roll? It isn't just an american entrepreneur.

Ben Wickler
He became a folk hero.

Erin Haynes
Celebrities and sports stars wanted to be seen with him.

Politicians is approval.

John Lovett
Okay, stop.

Ben Wickler
Donald Trump is the most approval craving person in the entire universe. I know this is somebody who, like, there's all this reporting about how he would make, you know, give donations to politicians totally for access so he could be around them. He was constantly trying to buddy up to celebrities. He hosted a show where, like, failed celebrities would come and try to supplicate his entire thing. And all the real celebrities hate him.

Erin Haynes
But what about Hannibal Lecter, though. How does Hannibal Lecter feel that?

Ben Wickler
The late, great Hannibal Lecter? It's full.

Jon Favreau
Full of.

Erin Haynes
Just checking.

Ben Wickler
I just wonder whether he wrote the script for this video for.

Jon Favreau
No doubt you can tell. You can tell.

Dan Pfeiffer
He hand selected the photos.

The guy didn't look at the federal budget one time in four years, but he picked out the photo of Mike Tyson individually for this.

Ben Wickler
They had to digitally retouch to remove the Sharpie before they put it into the video.

John Lovett
Yeah.

Yeah. It is a funny thing. Cause this is the story he tells in his own mind, right? Like, this is, this is the vision he had for what it meant for Donald Trump to be in New York. A folk hero, you know, like the kind of folk hero we all remember learning about growing up. The kinds that become famous for cheating on their wives and it being in page six.

Like Paul Bunyan. Right?

Any final thoughts?

And that's okay. Stop.

When we come back, Tommy sits down with Senator Tammy Baldwin.

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Tommy Vietor
I am thrilled to welcome to the show tonight from the great state of Wisconsin. Your senator, Tammy Baldwin.

All right, good to see you. Thank you.

Tammy Baldwin
It's great to see you. Thanks for being here.

Tommy Vietor
It's great to be here. It's great to be out of Milwaukee.

Tammy Baldwin
Yes.

I was doing a few events around the periphery just to draw some attention away.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, we were there, too. It was.

Tammy Baldwin
Yep.

Tommy Vietor
Weird. So we were talking with an elected official in Milwaukee earlier this week who was genuinely in awe and maybe a little jealous of your ability to win elections in Wisconsin, but also win by bigger margins than any other statewide official.

In 2012, you beat Tommy Thompson, who was governor, who was HHS secretary, with 51.4% of the vote. And then in 2018, you were reelected with 55.4% of the vote.

Yeah. Clap for that.

That's a huge margin, especially in a state where we are all used to, you know, 1%, one vote, counting thousands of votes by the end race within margins. What's the secret sauce? How are you outpacing everybody else? And can you tell Joe Biden about it?

Tammy Baldwin
So secret sauce is travel everywhere and don't just go to blue areas, go to red areas and purple areas, go to rural areas, suburban areas, and listen.

One of the most important things that somebody who's serving the public needs to do. And frankly, I listen and I hear what people are challenged by, what they're struggling with, what they're hopeful for, and take that back. And it informs what I do, but there is no substitute for getting out there.

I love the people of this state, hardworking, decent people. And to hear whether it's Donald Trump or my opponent, Eric Hovdy speak, insulting folks, it's very clear that, you know, he's more familiar with the boardroom or the yacht than he is with hardworking Wisconsinites.

Tommy Vietor
I want to ask you about that, Goober, in a minute, but there have been some recent polls that show you running several points ahead of President Biden in the state. Just wondering why you think that is.

Tammy Baldwin
You know, I think that it is about showing up and exactly what I just said in answer to your last question.

I'm a known quantity. I have gotten out there and fight for our farmers, fight for our natural resources, fight to bring jobs back, and we make things in the state of Wisconsin.

And my buy America rules are bringing new jobs back to Wisconsin.

So, you know, and it's the chance to really get to know my state and the people.

And I think that accounts for it.

But I also worry. I mean, I think in this particular year, I had ticket splitters in 2018. Yeah, I'm not sure there's going to be as many this time around.

Tommy Vietor
Why is that?

Tammy Baldwin
I don't know. Try to. I have met a few Trump Tammy voters in my time.

Tommy Vietor
What are they like?

Tammy Baldwin
Well, I'll give you an example.

I was visiting Neenah Foundry.

For those of you who travel, you always look down at the manhole covers. It's like, yeah, that was made in Wisconsin. Yay. And I was visiting right before my last election, and I met with, you know, they were showing me how they make things. And the guy who brings the molten metal and pours it into the, operates the machinery to pour it into the molds, he started the conversation by, like, why do you keep picking on my guy Trump? What?

Why do you keep picking on my guy Trump?

Well, maybe he deserves it.

The guy didn't even crack a smile. He shows me what he does. And after I moved on, a staffer went to engagement and said, okay, you're a big Trump supporter. What do you think of Tammy Baldwin? And he stopped and he said, look what I make.

I make manhole covers and things for our infrastructure. If it weren't for buy America rules, I wouldn't have a job. And Nina Foundry might not even be in Wisconsin.

Of course I'm voting for her.

So that's.

I also have a couple of folks, you know, who work hard as dairy farmers and know that I've gone to bat for them. And I remember one guy with a big Trump bumper sticker on his pickup truck, but he's definitely a strong supporter. I'd like him to put a Baldwin bumper sticker next to that. I'm not sure what signal that would send, but I think I do worry in this particular race that we have become hardened in our divides, and so we're working to earn every vote. Trump last night said he was going to buy every vote. My opponent looks like he's trying to do that, so I'm working really hard to earn every vote.

Tommy Vietor
Speaking of divides, I mean, can you win statewide in Wisconsin if you are lactose intolerant?

Tammy Baldwin
You know, I wouldn't brag about it, but you can probably still leave it out. All right.

Tommy Vietor
It's a good tip for love it if he moves here.

Tammy Baldwin
Oh, no, I love milk cheese curds.

Tommy Vietor
Have you had cheese?

So we had two different kinds of cheese curds. We had kind of like, fresh fried and fresh. One of them were, like, pancake y almost, with syrup and powdered sugar on them.

Tammy Baldwin
Really?

Tommy Vietor
I didn't make them.

Tammy Baldwin
I like them fresh and squeaky.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, those were squeaky. We had some squeaky ones, too. God, I'm gonna get run out of this place.

All right, now for the annoying question. So ever since the debate, the Democratic Party has had this roiling conversation about whether President Biden should step aside or, and let Vice President Harris or somebody else run against Donald Trump. As of Friday evening, when we're recording this, four us senators, four of your colleagues, have asked President Biden to step down, along with a couple dozen members of Congress. Do you think President Biden should step aside?

Tammy Baldwin
Look, as I travel, I have had countless conversations now of people coming up to me and saying that they're very worried about the top of the ticket. These are legitimate concerns. And it's been my job, I feel, to convey it in no uncertain terms to the White House and the campaign.

And I have been doing that.

Ultimately, it is, yes, ultimately, it is the choice for Joe Biden to make, and I hope they are taking and weighing very seriously the input that we're providing.

But in the end, whatever the decision, I am for the democratic ticket from the very bottom to the very top.

Tommy Vietor
I am. Look, I am totally where you are.

If Joe Biden is the nominee, I will be. Do everything I can to support him.

I'm so glad to hear that you're conveying these concerns, because they do feel widespread. I don't think this is an elite problem. And I'm just wondering if you feel like the White House is listening, because, yeah, this is, of course, Joe Biden's decision. It's a very human, personal decision. Right. I mean, this is his life's work and purpose. And saying I no longer get to do that would be unbelievably painful. But ultimately, he's just a citizen. We're all citizens. We all own this together. And I just worry a little bit whether the messages you're conveying from constituents are getting to the top.

Tammy Baldwin
Yeah. Well, I know there's also been face to face discussions with a number of my colleagues and President Biden, but I have to trust that when I convey what I've been hearing that it is going directly to him. That's what I was promised, and I hope that is the case.

Tommy Vietor
So I live in Los Angeles.

Your opponent, Eric Hovdy, is basically my neighbor.

He's down the road in Laguna beach, which is a hell of a lot closer than, you know, Madison, Wisconsin. So I saw that he also has a house in Washington, DC, that I believe he gifted to his brother.

Tammy Baldwin
Yes.

Tommy Vietor
As one does.

Tammy Baldwin
For 24 years. He ran a hedge fund in Washington, DC, and then came back and ran for Senate in 2012. And now he owns a $3 billion bank, Salty earth, and lives in Orange.

Tommy Vietor
County, Laguna, California, $7 million house.

This is a sincere question. Why is a banker from bank owner from California running for Senate in Wisconsin?

Tammy Baldwin
That is a question for the voters.

Right?

Tommy Vietor
Like, where did this guy come from?

Tammy Baldwin
And as I was saying, I just feel when I hear what he says, that he doesn't get us, that he doesn't understand the hardworking folks that I have the honor of representing. And he talks down to folks.

Said that seniors in nursing homes shouldn't be able to vote.

He disparages single moms.

He calls farmers lazy.

Tommy Vietor
In Wisconsin.

Tammy Baldwin
In Wisconsin.

Tommy Vietor
Okay.

All right.

Tammy Baldwin
I mean, you can't look down to the people that you're seeking to represent.

And I hope people really listen and understand.

You know, he seems much more conversant in the boardroom than he does visiting a family farm or a factory here in the state of Wisconsin.

Tommy Vietor
Carpet bagging just seems so awkward. You know, you just gotta pretend, you.

Tammy Baldwin
Know, it seems increasingly frequent these days. So frequently. I mean, it's amazing to me.

Tommy Vietor
Bizarre. I saw a recent interview with former governor Scott Walker.

I think it was at the RNC. He was asked by, like, a local Green Bay tv station about hubdy's residency issues. And in his answer, in the course of, like, a minute and 20 seconds, he got to a place where he suggested that criticism of HVD's residency was the kind of extreme rhetoric that led to the 2017 shooting of Congressman Steve Scalise and the assassination attempt on Donald Trump. And my question is, what the hell is Scott Walker talking about?

Tammy Baldwin
I want to say, okay, stop.

I mean.

Oh, my.

Oh, my. There was a. There was this day, few weeks back, where he was due to stop by the Oconto County Republican Party for meet and greet.

He was a no show. I mean, he's on the billing for this. Come meet Eric Hovdy. Same day, a neighbor of his in California snapped a picture of him on the beach in Laguna beach.

Tommy Vietor
Come on, man. I mean, really, what are you doing?

Tammy Baldwin
I mean, really?

Tommy Vietor
Unbelievable. Turning back to some Senate business, you called on your Senate colleague, democratic colleague Bob Menendez, to resign after he was found guilty.

Yeah. Applause for that.

He was found guilty on 16 charges, including bribery, extortion, acting as a foreign agent. He had literal gold bars in his house.

You've also expressed willingness to expel Menendez if he doesn't, if he won't leave. He said he's not gonna resign. He says he's gonna appeal the case. What happens next? What's the process for expelling a US Senate?

Tammy Baldwin
Well, I've never gone through that process before, but it is, you know, bring an expulsion resolution to the floor and we'll vote on it.

I think that the rule of law matters. And when we look at the threat to the rule of law posed by Donald Trump and the plans that he has for the future, we have to be very clear that regardless of whether this is a Democrat or a Republican, that he's been convicted. I called on him to resign after the charges because they were so serious.

But I certainly hope he resigns and we don't have to expel him. That's what we should do.

Tommy Vietor
Agreed.

The Dobbs decision that stripped away abortion access for millions of women in this country upended politics nationally. But we were talking earlier before the show about how it was especially impactful in Wisconsin. I was hoping you could explain to the audience what the impact of Dobbs has been and whether, you know, this was the only thing we talked about going into the 2022 midterms. There's been a lot of noise out of DC that we discussed a minute ago. But are you hearing about the issue as much when you're at town hall meetings on the doors, et cetera?

Tammy Baldwin
I am hearing about it a lot. First of all, just the Dobbs decision stripped away the rights and freedoms of half of America. And half of America now has fewer rights and freedoms than their mothers and their grandmothers had.

And in Wisconsin, you know, when that happened, the law reverted to state law.

In our state, we have a criminal statute passed in 1849, one year after statehood.

Tommy Vietor
Wow.

Tammy Baldwin
That was widely perceived as a criminal abortion ban.

Services stopped in this state the moment that decision came out.

And I have heard harrowing stories of what happened to people during that time.

You know, to be told that we can't treat you.

A woman who I met in Eau Claire, her water broke at 17 weeks, and she went into her doctor and I, he said, I can't do anything. They basically have lawyers practicing medicine like, no, no, no, you might be prosecuted if you do anything. So they sent her home and they didn't provide her with care until she was at risk of sepsis and had a fever of 101.

That should not be in America. This is healthcare. You can't say that half of the population has no access to comprehensive health care. Take care.

Now, since that time, a trial court judge has ruled that that 1849 statute is unconstitutional and not intended to serve this to restrict access. And so now we have three counties with Planned Parenthood clinics that have reopened Dane County, Milwaukee and Sheboygan, but we have 69 counties that don't have services, and we've got to change that. I'm proud to be the lead sponsor of the Women's Health Protection act, which would codify Roe.

And, and it would take the necessary additional step of telling states like Wisconsin and Texas and Florida that you can't pass laws at the state level that make it impossible to access those rights. So we have to, we have to, we have to pass that.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah. Amen.

Final question for you. So we are constantly trying to figure out what issues do voters care about? We're looking at polls, polls. You're looking at focus groups. You're literally on the road doing town hall meetings, knocking on doors, talking to people. What do you hear about the most?

And do you have any advice for Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or anybody at the top of the ticket about how to refocus the conversation on the things that you're hearing about in Wisconsin and not whatever else is getting media attention?

Tammy Baldwin
Yeah.

So the things I hear about the high cost of things, but we have such a story to tell about lowering the cost of prescription drugs and asthma inhalers and insulin and fighting so hard to make healthcare accessible to all.

I hear a lot about the fact that we have, for the first time, or I shouldn't say the first time, but as a country, seen rights and freedoms that were fought for be taken away.

I think all of us think of America as a place where we advance our state motto forward. And to see that rights and freedoms being taken away is shocking. And we don't, we're not just talking about right to access abortion. We're talking about ways in which our accessing the ballot box is becoming more difficult.

The right to unionize and organize, to collectively bargain is being blocked. And so all of these rights and freedoms are more constrained these days. And people want their rights and freedoms back. And they're voting about that. They're very fearful that we could lose our democracy in this election. And so that's what I'm hearing. But that's also what the democratic agenda is all about. It's making it possible for people to work hard, play by the rules, and get ahead and lead a fulfilling, prosperous life.

Tommy Vietor
Amen.

Last, last question.

How can people help you out? Where should they go? If they're listening at home, they want to volunteer. They want to give.

Tammy Baldwin
Well, start with tammybaldwin.com, dot easy to remember.

And there's so many things people can do in terms of volunteering, in terms of amplifying our message. Yeah, go and follow me on social media. And when you see something that you think your friends might care about, spread the word.

Tommy Vietor
Good advice.

Tammy Baldwin
And, you know, maybe occasionally look at what he's saying on his website. I don't do that very much, but just sort of, you know, wow, this is what we're up against.

Certainly people can make donations. I'm running, you know, it's a multimillionaire who's running against me. He's put $13 million of his own wealth into the campaign.

His brother formed a super pac because he didn't want to be held back by the limits of. And so he's put $2 million, super PAC.

Oh, my gosh. So, yeah, but calling doors, all of those things, yard signs, you know, there's all this internal discussion in politics, like lawn signs, don't vote.

Tommy Vietor
Oh, we fought about this.

Tammy Baldwin
Visibility matters these days. And, you know, there's people who haven't taken their Trump signs down yet. They just crossed out Pence. Yes, we need to have a lot of visibility, especially in those parts of the state where people need to know their neighbors are sane voters, rational voters. Yeah, they need to see that Trump.

Tommy Vietor
Tried to cross up pence for good, if you know what I'm saying.

Senator Baldwin, thank you so much for being here. We're all rooting for you.

Erin Haynes
We're all supporting you.

Tommy Vietor
Thank you.

Tammy Baldwin
Thank you, Thomas.

Jon Favreau
And we're back.

All right, let's talk about the Joe Biden of it all. Yesterday, all the reporting made it seem like the president might decide to get out of the race today. The Biden campaign basically said, not so fast. The president said he'll be campaigning next week. In a statement, General Mally Dillon, Biden's campaign chair, went on mourning Joe, as one does, to argue that they still have a path to win. The campaign sent out a similar memo. Meanwhile, another five House Democrats and two senators, Martin Heinrich of New Mexico and Sherrod Brown of Ohio, called on Biden to step aside. Even Chris Coons, the Delaware senator who's one of the few people Biden is reportedly still talking to, said the president is, quote, weighing who is the best candidate to win in November.

1 member of Congress, one member of Congress who's still riding with Biden is AOC, who I think made a really honest, thoughtful argument last night during an hour long live stream where she said this.

Erin Haynes
I just want people to at least come to their conclusions, eyes wide open.

Regardless of what shakes out, we're gonna have to work harder than we've ever worked before. Like, if you're falling out of a coconut tree, God bless you. If you're riding with the president, God bless.

I am not an open convention person.

I think that is crazy. All you folks that are coconut pilled in the comments as you are identifying, buckle up.

Dan Pfeiffer
How many people know the coconut meme?

All right, maybe you should explain it.

Jon Favreau
Oh, how do I even explain it?

John Lovett
What?

Jon Favreau
Kamala Harris.

You want to. How do you explain it? Okay. Kamala Harris. No, I think I can do this. Kamala Harris gave a speech at one point a couple years ago where she said, do you think you just fell out of a coconut tree? We exist in the context of everything that has come before.

Right?

Tommy Vietor
Yes. Like, how you're, like, how can I explain this verbatim quote?

Jon Favreau
I was thinking in the context. And so. And she, like, laughed after the coconut tree. And it's a very funny. It's also. She's correct. It's a good sociological analysis of the situation.

But the coconut tree, so, like, people who want Kamala Harris to be the nominee have been putting coconut emojis all over Twitter, in their bio. This is all over TikTok. It's gone viral. It's like.

Erin Haynes
It's the thing.

Jon Favreau
It's a thing.

Erin Haynes
They are unburdened by what has been.

John Lovett
Yeah.

Jon Favreau
Aaron, I don't know if you caught all of AOC's argument there, but what do you make of this whole mess? We've been talking about it a lot.

Erin Haynes
Caught it all. Are you kidding? I just stayed up for 90 minutes to watch Trump. I could not stay up for another hour to watch AOC.

Jon Favreau
I mean, fair, fair.

Erin Haynes
That's a lot. But no, but I did catch some of it. And look, I mean, I thought that she, what? She really made a good point about that. I thought was good, was talking about how the conversation focusing on the donors instead of the voters. Right. And honestly, I think that that's probably where President Joe Biden is.

Tammy Baldwin
Right.

Erin Haynes
Like, he's out there. Well, you know, pre Covid, obviously, but he's out there. He's in Detroit, he's in North Carolina. He's in front of the voters. And the voters seem to be with him. Right. They're telling him, stay in the race, don't drop out. He sees that he's in the bubble. He's thinking, if the voters are with me, what is this conversation? I can do it. I can still win. The voters are still with me. I can still do it. I think that that's a legitimate. A legitimate part of this argument that, you know, as, you know, the party is still considering what to do, as he is still trying to make that decision, and it is still ultimately his decision. Right. It comes down to, for him, I think a lot of this calculation is what the voters say. Cause the voters prove people wrong in 2020, right? Maybe they prove people wrong again. I don't know.

Jon Favreau
Love it. What did you make of AOC's argument about the risks of an open convention?

John Lovett
We talked about this a couple weeks ago on pod Save America, and I was sort of. I'm not sure. I feel uncertain. I feel like anyone who has certainty is probably worth discounting, and she doesn't. Right. She's, I think being. What's so great about this is she's having the uncertainty that this moment requires. I have the same concerns about it. I think the idea, you know, we just went through a whole thing about how we didn't need to have a Zoom roll call in July because some of these deadlines are not that urgent. At the same time, the idea that we're gonna have an open convention and wrap that up in time to get on all these ballots without legal challenges, I think that is also like, kind of, I think, too much to hope for. The other piece of this, too, is the closer we get to the convention and the less planning and discussion we have about the actual practical way in which we could do this, the less realistic it is that we could do anything like that. In a matter of, we are now, we were saying we are one month away from the convention. I also do think there's a little bit of psychology in the idea of it's not Biden, it's not Kamala, it's someone else, because it gives you the confidence of saying you don't have the liabilities of Biden, but you don't have the liabilities. There are no liabilities in your imagined perfect candidate, whoever it might be. So you get to skip over the reality that any person we put up is a person with the flaws and challenges a person would bring.

And so you get to compare Joe Biden to kind of a miasma of Whitmer and Shapiro and Mark Kelly and Raphael Warnock. And it looks pretty amazing because it's all of them in one kind of gundam.

Erin Haynes
But you also literally have a sitting vice president that is sitting right there that has been mirroring this man for three and a half years. Of course, right so we're talking about sitting vice president versus designated survivor. Don't know who that is. I mean, that could be whoever. And with exactly a month to go, like, I just don't know.

Yeah, I really wonder if we are talking about somebody else, why are we talking about somebody else when this person has been training for the job and the other and whoever else we're talking about would have to be in training?

John Lovett
It's like.

Tommy Vietor
It'S the same broken brain shit that breaks up every relationship. Cause you're like, I got this great person, but I don't know.

Erin Haynes
I see the meme. I see the meme. Tommy. I see it.

John Lovett
Tommy, you okay?

Dan Pfeiffer
I think the important part of what AOC said is we all have to approach this with a lot of humility. This is unprecedented.

We don't know what's going to happen. We don't know what the right answer is.

Sticking with Biden could be the right answer. Switching to Kamala could be the right answer. Someone else could be the right answer. It is totally unknown, and there's a huge amount of risk. And so it's just this idea that there is exact one right answer that guarantees victory is a fallacy.

Jon Favreau
Yeah, I do think it's worth playing out to the open convention point. Like, what happens if, say, this week, Biden decides to step aside? He ideally announces this with Kamala Harris by his side. Either he endorses her or he says something very nice about her, whatever it may be. She is the sitting vice president.

If I was advising Kamala Harris, right, I would think it would be best for her if she said, yeah, of course, we have a month till the convention. I would like to compete with anyone who wants to compete with me for this. We're the Democratic Party. This is democracy. Let's do this. And then shortly after that, there's only a couple weeks. She starts getting a bunch of endorsements, right? The whole party starts.

People will go pretty fast. And then at that point, who's gonna really challenge her? With four weeks to go, she's the sitting vice president. She probably just got the endorsement of Joe Biden. Now she's picking up steam, but the benefit of at least saying, I'm open to challengers is now she actually wins this, and she feels the sense of real legitimacy from going through a process, and everyone else looks at it and is like, you know what? There was an open process. No one wanted to challenge her. A bunch of the party just coalesced around her, which I think would absolutely happen because she'd be the overwhelming frontrunner. And then we wrap this thing up and we go to the convention and work our asses off.

Dan Pfeiffer
It's just there is this, like, there is this conspiracy theory. There are two conspiracy theories going on. One is that some group of party poo boss would just pass over Kamala Harris. And the other one is that the party that's those same party poo boss will rig it for Kamala Harris. Here's the thing. The moment Joe Biden takes, says he is not running for the nomination of the Democratic Party, all of the delegates are unpledged. They can vote for anyone they want.

Jon Favreau
They are unburdened by what was.

Dan Pfeiffer
They are unburdened.

John Lovett
Yes.

Dan Pfeiffer
They might have fallen out of a coconut tree.

And so Kamala Harris is gonna have to earn their votes.

If someone else wants to run, that could be someone of great stature, like one of the governors who we're talking about or senator talking about. Or it could just be literally anyone can seek the votes of that convention. And so there has to be by DNC rules.

Jon Favreau
Right.

Dan Pfeiffer
An open process. Whether someone will challenge her or not is an open question. And I can see a lot of arguments why people wouldn't do that. But it is an open process for the majority of those delegates.

Erin Haynes
But, like, I mean, look, I hear what you're saying, but we also have to admit that, like, this country is burdened by what has been right. We have never elected a woman to be president of the United States. So, like, sure, she may be the most qualified and, like, if she's the most qualified, then she comes out on top, you know, at the end of an open process. But, like, wow, we're here again. We're leapfrogging over the sitting vice president to choose somebody else. I think we've seen kind of what happens when the person that is the most qualified, if they are a woman, that doesn't always work out. Right. That doesn't always work out. We gotta be honest about that. So, you know, I don't know.

You would like to think that it should be about, you know, maybe the person's leadership, you know, maybe the person's resume, maybe the person's track record. But, you know, if we're talking about that person being a woman, I think it is a different calculation. And you have to acknowledge that.

John Lovett
Yeah, I also do think, like, I think, yes, I think we're talking about two scenarios. In both of them, she says, I am seeking the nomination. I hope to earn the support of the delegates. In one scenario, no one serious challenges her, and this is sort of a moot point. And she begins the campaign against Trump immediately.

Jon Favreau
And by the way, in that scenario, the reason no one challenges her is because they think her political position is so strong that I could not win and that benefits her. That's my idea.

John Lovett
Yes. And the other is that there is a serious challenge. And then I actually do think this is an argument we're gonna have. And I think she starts out ahead in that argument. And I think now, whether or not you want that, my view is, is it worth having that fight? Do we wanna just hit the ground running right away with Kamala running hard against Trump and no one else? Or do we wanna have that fight where she comes out ahead and proves that she's the leader of this party by, like, keeping what she kills? You know? I don't know.

Jon Favreau
Wow.

John Lovett
And nobody remembers the movie triple X.

That's crazy. Oh, not triple X. He's in it.

Jon Favreau
I don't know. Anyway, I don't know what you're talking about.

Dan Pfeiffer
I just think the odds that if there was a process, she is by far the overwhelming favorite.

Jon Favreau
Yep.

Dan Pfeiffer
She's the best known. The polls show that she is the choice of the democratic primary voters who don't have a voice here.

Jon Favreau
Yep.

Dan Pfeiffer
And also just delegates winning an open convention, something we have not had to do for many, many years, is about math. And she also happens to be not just the vice president, but the vice president from California, the largest democratic delegation. And so she. I struggled. I would be shocked if someone of great consequence decided to run against her in this process. And I would be even more shocked if she did not beat that person who chose to run against her in that process.

Erin Haynes
And, PS, this is a non starter for black women. I mean, I was just at essence, and these black women were like, what are we talking about? This is not a conference. This is not real. Like, black women, most loyal, you know, base of the Democratic Party. We know this, right? They're gonna vote. But, like, what you need is. What the Democratic Party needs is black women who are going to not only vote, but take their church members, their household, their sorority, whoever else they can take to the polls.

I mean, and voter enthusiasm, energy is a thing. Like, it is a thing this cycle. And, you know, if you don't have black women on board. Cause you threw the black woman overboard like you got a problem.

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah.

God only knows what the right answer is. The only thing I wanna say is, I watched that whole live earlier today and I just. It was so nice. I actually don't agree with her conclusion. I didn't agree with a lot of the analysis, but hearing a member of Congress lay it all out honestly, like warts and all, and be like, here's the process. Here's what I'm hearing. Here's why this whole process is fucked up and bad. It's like, thank you. Thank you for respecting the intelligence of the people watching this, your constituents, the Democratic Party, and just like, talking it out. That's such a better path than hiding or giving background quotes to Axios or like, whatever others are doing.

John Lovett
And I do, yeah. And I just, I do want to make two quick points. It is chronicles of Riddick starring Vin Diesel.

Tommy Vietor
That's a good movie.

Erin Haynes
We're back on track, people.

John Lovett
That's a good movie.

Jon Favreau
I'm glad we circled back to that.

Dan Pfeiffer
That's the sequel, right?

Erin Haynes
Fact check.

Dan Pfeiffer
That's, pitch black is the original sequel.

John Lovett
But also.

Yeah. Anyway, that's why I wanted to make, that was the most important point that I wanted to make about that.

Jon Favreau
So we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Tommy. There is, the reporting today is that no decision has been made that Biden is still weighing this decision and headed.

Erin Haynes
Back to the campaign trail.

Jon Favreau
And yes, although it was interesting, the statement said, we'll be back on the campaign trail next week. We'll be talking about, it was very, I don't know, you can read into it, but the campaign is making it seem like full speed ahead. They had Jen out on morning Joe. He's going to the campaign trail. What do you think is going on there with the, like, no decision, but the campaign looks like it's moving full speed ahead.

Tommy Vietor
Jenna Malley Dillon, the campaign manager on morning Joe. Yeah. I mean, look, they have no choice but to proceed ahead, right? Because if you show any daylight, if there's any weakness that leads to more members of Congress saying, like, oh, I see where this train is going, let's get in front of it, call it a parade. It leads to the donors cutting off funds. It leads to another terrible news cycle. So they're just stuck. And I think the reality is very few people have any real information. It's like Joe Biden, Jill Biden, a couple close family members, one or two staffers that are kind of cloistered off.

John Lovett
Israeli intelligence, israeli intelligence.

Tommy Vietor
Maybe the Russians, maybe the Chinese, the French have some good collection, so they're going to figure it out. And I guess moments like this is when I have so much empathy for the Biden team.

His campaign in his White House is really good. Like they have some of the smartest, most effective, great people in the Democratic Party. We know them. They are our friends. They were pissed at us. We feel bad about that. But they are in an impossible position. They are trying to figure out a path forward when no one knows what that path is. So they're going to be professionals. They're going to do their jobs. They're going to keep doing what it takes to win, and then Joe Biden's gonna make a decision.

Jon Favreau
Which brings me to Dan, I saved the easy question for you. It is getting pretty late.

This has now been going on for three weeks.

More democrats are expected to come out next week calling on Biden to step aside. If Biden stays and digs in, congressional democrats stay dug in. Like what happens? We're in a standoff here where you got four weeks to the convention.

Dan Pfeiffer
Ultimately, this is Joe Biden's decision, which he claims to have made, and he keeps saying he's made it, and no one keeps listening to him.

Jon Favreau
Are you sure?

Dan Pfeiffer
I mean, what if we keep looking for something that is not there? Like, there has never yet been real solid reporting that he himself is open to changing his mind. There's reporting that people around him have recognized the inevitability of the decision. There's been reporting that members of his family have at least considered, if he were to make a decision, how he might decide, announce that decision, but nothing that Joe Biden himself has done. And we've gotten detailed readouts from a lot of phone calls that have been happening with President Biden over the last week. And the reason we're getting those detailed readouts is because in those phone calls, Joe Biden has at no point has evinced any doubt about it.

But it is his decision. So he can do this if he wants to do it, and no one can stop him. I do, however, believe we have now crossed the Rubicon, where it is not possible to run an effective campaign under these circumstances.

The donors have left. They have shifted their money to the House and the Senate because they believe that Joe Biden is unlikely to win. And they want to do everything they possibly can to set up a bulwark against complete MaGa, control of our government. And that would be in the House or the Senate.

And just imagine how this campaign works if he continues as we are here.

Jon Favreau
Right.

Dan Pfeiffer
He's going to go to Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin and put the vulnerable senators and Senate candidates in those states in the position every single day during every trip of deciding how they're going to respond to the president, that puts them in an impossible position. How do you run when most of the Democrats, including the leaders, have indicated publicly or quasi publicly that they don't want you to run? Like he can do it? And maybe there's a way that I cannot conjure in my brain with that campaign can be successful. But it feels to me like a very, very dangerous death spiral that lends itself to a landside Trump victory that brings the House and the Senate with him. And so it is his choice. And if they have a plan for how to navigate these waters and to do it in a way that Joe Biden can execute, they really have to lay that out. Because as we sit here today, I just can't see in every day that we are not running a race against Donald Trump. It's a day we will never, ever get back.

And if Kamala Harris is going to be our nominee, we want her out there yesterday, not ten days from now. And so.

Angie Hicks
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Jon Favreau
Feeling overwhelmed by the relentless news cycle? Want to discuss important issues with fellow political junkies? Look no further than crooked's friend of the pod discord. It's like group therapy for people who binge on breaking news instead of Netflix. Look, we get it. As this summer's political and legal roller coaster continues, well need to take advantage of every self care hack we can think of. Thats why friends of the pod will be hosting live chats for subscribers during the upcoming DNC and RNC, where subscribers can share opinions, laugh, cry, react with emojis in real time, and support each other through the chaos. Much better than breathing into a paper bag in front of your screens, in our opinion. So join now. You wont regret it. Unless you hate fun. Subscribe to the Friends of the pod community only@cricket.com friends, we will see you there.

John Lovett
It's been a psychologically grueling week.

Jon Favreau
We gotta bring Ben back out.

John Lovett
Oh, let's bring Ben back out.

Ben, you take my spot. I'm gonna come over here.

I remember how it all works.

Hi, Ben.

Ben Wickler
Hi, John.

John Lovett
You had the beach earlier or something?

Jon Favreau
Unbelievable.

John Lovett
It's been grueling watching the Republican National Convention, and there's something I always turn to for self soothing. It's called dairy.

Luckily, we're in Wisconsin. Unfortunately, we're in Wisconsin for the RNC. So tonight we must bridge the divide between our greatest love, Wisconsin, and its dairy, and something we dislike, the republican party.

And we're gonna do it all in a game we're calling cheese. Cheese. Cheese.

Cheese.

Tommy Vietor
Cheese, cheese.

John Lovett
Don't prove I'm wrong.

Terrific.

Ben Wickler
Can I just note that in Wisconsin we are proud that when the temperature goes above 40, we put on our flip flops.

Jon Favreau
Yes.

Ben Wickler
That's what we do in Wisconsin.

John Lovett
A little. A little esprit. You thought, okay, coastal elite.

Erin Haynes
You live your truth. Live your truth.

John Lovett
It's true.

I am a member of the coastal elite, but I eat like a wisconsinite with nothing to lose.

All right, so here's how it works. I'm gonna divide you into teams. The teams will be Aaron and John versus Ben, Tommy and Dan.

I'm going to ask you Wisconsin trivia.

Some of it will be about dairy, some of it will be about republicans.

All right.

Jon Favreau
I feel good about this bigot. Ben, we got whickler. What the fuck?

Erin Haynes
It's a ringer.

Tommy Vietor
Who's a ringer?

Feel good about this?

John Lovett
Ben, you're going to help both teams.

Jon Favreau
No, that's okay. No, Aaron and I are going to do it. We're going to win on our own.

Erin Haynes
We can't.

John Lovett
All right. All right.

Tommy Vietor
All time.

John Lovett
Seems like you're not happy with any option. Sounds like a Democrat to me.

All right, let's start with Ben, Tommy, and Dan. Between 1895 and 1967, Wisconsin outlawed which product, forcing residents to smuggle it in from across state lines. A cough syrup, b margarine, c root beer, or d lube?

Ben Wickler
We'll take margarine.

John Lovett
That is correct.

Erin Haynes
Wow.

Tammy Baldwin
Wow.

John Lovett
The state banned the manufacture and sale of yellow margarine to protect dairy farmers, and that ban remained in place for 72 years. Aaron and John, what 1965 incident precipitated the end of the margarine ban? A a staunchly anti margarine state senator agreed to take a blind taste test of margarine and butter and failed it. B a deep pocketed margarine magnate funded or full renovation of the state capitol? C a butter warehouse exploded? Or D Rock Hudson appeared in a sexy magazine ad, his naked torso slathered in margarine.

Erin Haynes
Holy shit.

Jon Favreau
Looks like maybe b.

Erin Haynes
That a or b phone a friend?

A.

Jon Favreau
What was that. What was a.

John Lovett
A. Was a staunchly anti margarine. State senator agreed to a blind taste test.

Hey.

Jon Favreau
Hey.

Subtle.

John Lovett
Thank you.

Erin Haynes
We appreciate you.

John Lovett
What the.

Erin Haynes
Was that your can.

Tammy Baldwin
Who was that?

John Lovett
What the. You want us to have fun up here? You want to just be smart.

Tammy Baldwin
Wow.

John Lovett
Hey, you got it.

Erin Haynes
We got this.

John Lovett
GOP state senator Gordon Roselie failed a blind taste test. It later came out that his wife had been secretly serving him margarine instead of butter for years.

Tammy Baldwin
Damn. Wow.

Erin Haynes
Sometimes it'll be your own people call.

Ben Wickler
Is coming from inside the house.

Erin Haynes
Exactly.

John Lovett
Margarine. Yuck.

All right, what percentage is this for? Ben, Dan, and Tommy, what percentage of Wisconsin milk is made into cheese?

50%, 75%, 25%, or 90%?

Jon Favreau
Look at dumbest face.

Ben Wickler
We're going big. We're going for 90%.

Tammy Baldwin
Wow.

John Lovett
Correct.

Erin Haynes
Wow.

Wow.

Ben Wickler
This game is called cheese.

John Lovett
Cheese.

Ben Wickler
Cheese.

John Lovett
Cheese. Cheese.

Ben Wickler
People.

John Lovett
2.8.

Jon Favreau
I just want to point out that when you ask that question, a hush fell over the crack.

You ask the question, people go, it's.

Ben Wickler
Because people were worried, like, what if there's not enough cheese?

But it turns out there's enough cheese?

John Lovett
2.8 billion pounds of cheese a year.

Jon Favreau
Wow.

Dan Pfeiffer
Yay, cheese.

John Lovett
All right, Aaron and John, how many varieties of cheese does Wisconsin produce? Is it a, 50, b, 100, c, 300, or d, 600?

How much cheese?

Tammy Baldwin
Yeah.

John Lovett
C. Incorrect. It is d, 600.

Tammy Baldwin
Wow.

John Lovett
That's so more than double the cheeses that the next cheesiest state California produces.

Yeah, that's right.

Erin Haynes
We don't talk about that.

John Lovett
Those fags don't know shit about cheese.

Sorry.

Erin Haynes
Wow. Guess I have to stick around. I have not tried all the cheeses.

Jon Favreau
That's a lot of cheese.

Erin Haynes
Wow. I have work to do.

John Lovett
What'd you say?

Erin Haynes
Wow. What is that?

John Lovett
You said, I know about you.

Erin Haynes
She know about you.

John Lovett
You said, thank you.

I feel.

I feel. Seen.

Ben, Tommy, and Dan, true or false? Wisconsin has a total of ten festivals dedicated entirely to cheese.

Erin Haynes
At least.

Tommy Vietor
At least.

Ben Wickler
It might be false because it's too few.

John Lovett
That's right.

That's right.

Jon Favreau
What?

Dan Pfeiffer
That is my friends game theory.

John Lovett
I like the. By the way, the best that we could do is at least 13, which is a little bit like, hey, Wisconsin, how many cheese festivals do you have? 13 that I know of.

All right, we're moving on to republican trivia.

Deal with it. Oh, it's the world.

We exist in the context.

Aaron and John, on Tuesday, Rudy Giuliani did what? On camera at the RNC.

Did he.

Jon Favreau
Oh, he fell. He tripped.

John Lovett
Yeah. He did he. Did he blundered into a row of chairs.

We have the clip.

I don't think we should show this.

Erin Haynes
This is not cheese related. Was he looked. Wow.

John Lovett
It's a bummer. I regret this. I regret this.

I regret this. Is that what did they have to do with.

I shifted from schadenfreude to just pure sadness on Rudy when he got overheard in Mar a Lago saying that his life is a living nightmare.

Dan Pfeiffer
Geez.

Ben Wickler
And karma.

John Lovett
All right, Ben, Tommy, and John and Dan, I know your name. During a live interview from the RNC floor with CNN, who said about Matt Gaetz, he's got an ethics complaint for paying a 17 year old.

Tommy Vietor
Kit McCarthy.

John Lovett
You got it.

Let's skip the clip. We've all seen it.

All right, we can show it now. It's over.

Jon Favreau
Play it.

John Lovett
Play it. Part that you have, and the other part you have is one person who raised the issue. He's got an ethics complaint about paying sleeping with a 17 year old. So that's the way they go. So that's the biggest challenge we have.

Jon Favreau
That guy is bitter, though.

John Lovett
Kevin McCarthy and Matt Gaetz. I like that they have a hatred towards each other that isn't political. It's. They truly hate each other on a deeply personal level.

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

Ben Wickler
People respond to authenticity, you know?

John Lovett
Yeah, they do. They do.

Erin Haynes
Maybe it wasn't all about unity after all. I forgot about.

Jon Favreau
Yeah. Right out there.

John Lovett
John and Aaron. This year, a, an english bulldog stole the hearts and minds of the RNC, owned by West Virginia governor Jim justice. What is the name of that dog?

I'll give you. Is it a, mister Chomp, B, Daniel Texas C, sneakers, or d, baby dog?

Jon Favreau
Baby dog it is.

Tommy Vietor
It's baby dog.

Daniel Tsaniel Tuck.

John Lovett
I know that a lot of you want to meet my little buddy, so.

Ben Wickler
If baby dog could come on out here.

John Lovett
She makes us smile.

Erin Haynes
Oh, my God. Baby dog.

John Lovett
So funny.

Jon Favreau
Honestly, best part of the RNC, it really was.

Erin Haynes
Baby dog was a highlight of the week.

Tommy Vietor
That guy saying you could meet my little buddy could end a lot different. You know what I mean?

John Lovett
Look at these. I love just. I like when dogs look like their owners.

It's so sweet. I mean it in the best way. Look at these two, huh?

Erin Haynes
I hope baby dog got some cheese.

John Lovett
The governor should be in a motorcycle, and the dog should be in a fucking sidecar.

All right. I.

Erin Haynes
Wow.

John Lovett
And you know what that sound means.

Erin Haynes
I don't, actually.

I'm terrible.

Jon Favreau
Jesus.

Tammy Baldwin
What?

John Lovett
It's time for lightning round. We are calling truther. Dairy.

Jon Favreau
There it is.

Erin Haynes
Oh, yes.

John Lovett
Bring out the dairy.

Erin Haynes
What is happening?

John Lovett
Thank you, sir.

Jon Favreau
How long has that milk been out?

John Lovett
Bring out the lactate.

All right.

Erin Haynes
Truth. I don't need to. I don't need to hear any questions.

John Lovett
It's truth.

Okay, here's what's gonna happen.

I'm actually gonna take some lactate.

Jon Favreau
I hate this.

John Lovett
I'm gonna ask you each truth or dare questions. You can either choose to answer it truthfully or make me consume dairy.

That's right. Tonight I am the designated milk martyr. I alone will bear the brunt of your skipped dares because I am brave like a lionhouse.

Because I figured you wouldn't want to drink all this dairy, at least not as much as I wanted to. All right, and we're going to work our way up from skim on the way all the way to. I think it goes from skim to yogurt.

Erin Haynes
Is that cottage cheese?

Jon Favreau
Yeah. What?

Erin Haynes
Oh, I'm ready for this game.

John Lovett
Okay, let's start with John.

John.

Jon Favreau
Yes.

John Lovett
Who actually did an incredible job with their RNC speech.

Jon Favreau
An incredible job. Yeah.

John Lovett
Who do you thought to get of an amazing speech?

You can also say dairy.

Jon Favreau
You know what? I think Kai Trump did a pretty good job.

John Lovett
Kai Trump did do a really good job.

Jon Favreau
She was great.

John Lovett
All right, I'll just drink some skim.

Ben Wickler
Was that drinking dairy just cause you wanted some milk?

Was he the truth? I approve of that.

John Lovett
Well, I'm just. I'm having skim to get started.

All right, Aaron, you're up next. What is something you like about JD Vance?

Usha.

Erin Haynes
I was gonna say usha. Vance's introduction speech was very endearing.

Humanized him. Really did.

John Lovett
Ben, what's something you like about JD Vance?

Ben Wickler
I have a thing, but I want to watch you drink more dairy.

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

John Lovett
All right, let's do some whole milk.

I'll pour you to a cup because I don't want to waze.

I skipped oat. I skipped oatme.

Erin Haynes
This is hard to watch.

Ben Wickler
Beautiful. That's beautiful to see.

John Lovett
Ben, do you remember when I drank a quart of chocolate milk while you made a case for the Wisconsin Democrats?

Jon Favreau
Oh, yeah.

Ben Wickler
I'll never forget it.

John Lovett
Tommy, you're up.

Tommy Vietor
About what?

John Lovett
Is. About what is some harsh feedback you want to say to baby dog?

Erin Haynes
Wow.

John Lovett
Let's get another photo of baby dog up there.

You need to rip this dog to fucking shreds.

Tommy Vietor
Watching this. My biggest fear was this sweet, adorable, loving, absolutely portly dog was gonna jump off the chair and break its little tiny legs.

You need longer legs. Baby dog.

John Lovett
Baby dog's not healthy. Can we be honest about it?

Tommy Vietor
No, not at all. No.

Does that count? Yeah, drink some shit.

John Lovett
Okay.

Erin Haynes
Buttermilk. Oh, my God.

John Lovett
Buttermilk.

Erin Haynes
Oh, my God.

I have to look away for this.

Jon Favreau
I hate this. Is that buttermilk?

Oh, dude.

Tammy Baldwin
Buttermilk.

Erin Haynes
Tell me when it's over, y'all.

John Lovett
Dan, you have to kiss one RNC speaker on the lips.

Who are you? Who's it gonna be?

Dan Pfeiffer
I mean, it's a tough choice. Can I just say dairy or have to?

John Lovett
Yeah, you could say dairy. I'll drink some of this.

Dan Pfeiffer
Or if you had to pick, you'd have to be baby dog, right?

John Lovett
Yeah, baby dog.

Jon Favreau
Yeah.

Is that the buttermilk?

John Lovett
That's actually really tough.

It's kind of interesting. It's, like, sour.

Erin Haynes
Stop it.

Jon Favreau
That is terrible.

Erin Haynes
I'm still doing it.

Jon Favreau
Oh, my God.

Ben Wickler
Not really a sipping beverage.

John Lovett
John, back to you.

Which of Trump's kids would you choose to spend a full day with at a cheese festival? And you can't pick Tiffany.

Jon Favreau
And you can't. What?

John Lovett
No Tiffany. Oh, and you know what? I'm taking Barron off the table.

Ben Wickler
Dairy.

Jon Favreau
Dairy.

Tammy Baldwin
Oh.

Erin Haynes
Oh, God.

Jon Favreau
Oh, no.

Erin Haynes
Sour cream. Okay, don't do it.

Jon Favreau
I agree. I agree.

John Lovett
That was a big bite.

Erin Haynes
This is so rough.

Jon Favreau
Wow.

Ben Wickler
We're proud of you, John.

Erin Haynes
Thank you for your service.

Tommy Vietor
I want him to puke.

Jon Favreau
Oh, my gosh.

John Lovett
Oh, man.

Erin, what are your genuine thoughts on the don't step on me and Maga ball gowns that popped up in Milwaukee this week? Will you admit. Will you admit.

Jon Favreau
Oh, my God.

John Lovett
Will you admit, here and now that they are, to some extent, serving.

Will you admit it here and now that despite. Put your politics aside.

Come on. Especially the one on the left, the gadsden flag.

Erin Haynes
Listen, if nothing else, they were getting these fits off this week.

They were. I mean, look, this is a statement. It's a statement. It's a statement that was made this week. They don't get to wear this, you know, back home to target, but here.

Tammy Baldwin
Here.

Erin Haynes
Milwaukee was their Runway.

Tammy Baldwin
Yeah.

Tommy Vietor
Yeah, that's true.

Erin Haynes
It was. I have to. I have to give it to them. Milwaukee was a Runway, and they were serving.

John Lovett
It was their beautiful, hardened, thickened Runway.

Tammy Baldwin
Thickened.

Erin Haynes
It was.

John Lovett
All right. I feel gross.

I guess that's our game.

Jon Favreau
Wow.

John Lovett
What a finish.

Jon Favreau
What a finished. What was that?

Erin Haynes
What was that about?

Jon Favreau
That's our show for tonight.

Ben Wickler
I want to interrupt for one.

John Lovett
Yes.

Jon Favreau
Do it.

Dan Pfeiffer
All right.

John Lovett
Wait. I'll wait. Wait. You can pitch for as long as it takes me to drink. What?

Ben Wickler
There's a lot of dairy left on that, on that table.

John Lovett
We'll do two.

Ben Wickler
This is a tradition that we have.

John Lovett
We'll do 2%. Hold on. You'll do the pitch while I do 2%?

I'm not drinking this whole thing. I'll die.

All right, I'll drink a cup.

Ben Wickler
All right, tell me when.

John Lovett
John, you have as long as it takes for me to drink.

Erin Haynes
Did you mix that with the buttermilk?

John Lovett
Yeah, it's a little bit of buttermilk. For texture. For texture. All right, I have a cup of 2%.

Make your pitch.

Ben Wickler
We've known doom and gloom. We remember when Wisconsin looked like a red state. How many people here organized and fought to make sure we beat Scott Walker, that we elected Joe Biden, that we reelected governor Evers, that we re elected and won those supreme court races? And now we are gonna win this November. If it's Joe Biden and Kamala Harris on the ballot, who's voting for them this November? Who's gonna do it? Who's gonna organize? Who's gonna do the work? And we have an election on. I'm just going. We have an election on August 13. Constitutional amendments, republican power grabs. We're gonna stop them from ripping up our constitution this August, and we're gonna do the same thing this November. People, politics is not a spectator sport. You can have opinions, but we are players in this game. Every person here, everyone listening, has the power to turn off voters. And when we work, we win.

John Lovett
Woo.

Yeah, we do.

Jon Favreau
Go to wisdoms.org. make a donation. Help the Wisconsin democratic party. Thank you, Ben Wickler. Thank you, Aaron Haynes. Thank you, Tammy Baldwin. Thank you, Madison.

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Creative America is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producers are Sol Rubin and Farah Safari. Reed Churlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt de Grote is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant, thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Mia Kellman, David Toles, Kirill Pallaviv and Molly Lobel.

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Bidin' His Time

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