Vivek Ramaswamy: Trump Wildwood Rally & Ann Coulter's Controversial Comments | PBD Podcast

Vivek Ramaswamy
30 seconds. Did you ever think you were made good? I feel I'm supposed I could take sweet victory. I know this life meant for me. Why would you bet on Goliath when.

We got bet, David? Valuetainment, giving values contagious. This world of entrepreneurs, we can't. No value. They hate it.

Patrick Bet-David
I run, homie. Look what I become. I'm the one.

All right. We're about to go live here with the one and only Vivek while I'm taking a picture with them. By the way, we got a lot to cover. I don't know how many times we've done this. Three, four, five times.

But every time we talk to Vivek, the conversation is always lively. We talk about a bunch of different issues. Let me kind of give you some things we want to talk about today. One is a exchange that he had with a recent podcast that he is too brown to become a president. We got to get a reaction on that, which we will.

And then the other part is the a position job. Is he going to be getting the homeland security job? That freaked a lot of people out. Is he going to get the secretary of commerce? Is it vp?

Is it ag? Is it nothing? What is the conversation going to be about? We'll talk about that. The trial in New York, Jersey, what Trump did, Jerry Seinfeld, who's a speaker at Duke graduation, and all of a sudden a bunch of people walk out.

You got to see this. Aside from that, there's the Michael Cohen thing going on right now with Stormy Daniel and Michael Cohen I think may have wanted to get sponsored by Nike. When you hear what he talked about based on a quote that Trump told him back in the days. Scaramucci said some stuff about Trump saying he's a very, very dangerous man and should be nowhere near the White House. Queers for Palestine.

Pro Palestine protesters stop traffic at Walt Disney World in Florida. You'll see what that's all about. And then we got a couple other stories here. Let me still continue with this. North Dakota governor, former presidential candidate Doug Bergam, front and center at Jersey rally with Trump.

What's he doing there? That's a whole conversation that's being brought up lately. RFK says he will qualify for presidential debates as he issues challenge to Trump. Cohen testifies and you'll see what he'll say here. Pelosi rebuke to her face during Oxford debate about 2016 election.

Very weird what she said. And then what the student and the person that was rebuking her. You just have to see what happens in this situation. Very interesting. And then a couple other things.

Trump just recently said, I support Israel's right to win its war on terror. Then CNN Zakaria, which is, by the way, he has an owner and the owner is on our panel here because without him, nobody would, I mean, without Adam, you know, Vinny, nobody would have ever known about Zakaria without Adam because it's all over. Yeah. CNN Zakaria Biden should go back to Trump's immigration policies. Then.

Numbers just showed up, a record breaking number for the number of people with full time jobs and part time jobs. Wait, TC, this couple things here in the economy we'll talk about. There's a stat that just came out from Wall Street Journal. I want to get Vivek's take on this. Suddenly there aren't enough babies.

The whole world is alarmed with not enough babies being born. Christine? Oh, there's a restraining order on her and all the dogs in South Dakota, which is kind of deeply concerning. We're going to see what our friend here has to say. And then last but not least, I thought this was kind of interesting story by Forbes.

I don't know who wrote it. I'm just curious. With this title, discrimination may cause people to age faster and affect white people most. Who the hell would write? No wonder why?

Putting, this is a Forbes article, guys, that we're talking about Forbes article. So, but I have to start off with this. Can I say one word on that? Do you think if the article's findings were that discrimination would cause people to age slower, would they have published it? I don't think so, no.

This is a great opportunity for them to write something like that. Rob, can you pull this up? So Ann Coulter, who we've had on the podcast before, Ann Coulter, I think you and her are on a show together. You're doing something together. And she asked this question.

I just want to get your reaction on going to play this clip. That's why I brought on today somebody who I think has some thoughtful perspectives on the future direction of our country, of our conservative movement, and on this question of nationalism and national identity, somebody who've been fascinated by for a long time. Can you fast forward to when she. Says on social media, but for the first time, we're having a, is it right here, live conversation in the offline sense of it, it's Ann Coulter. So, Anne, thanks for coming on.

Vivek Ramaswamy
And I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Me too. Thanks for having me. That was a fantastic opening monologue. I too am a fan of yours.

I'm going to make a point of disagreeing with you so that it will be fun. You are so bright and articulate, and I guess I can call you articulate since you're not an american. Black. Can't say that about them. That's derogatory.

Patrick Bet-David
And that was a great opening segment. Lots of things to talk about there. Oh, and I agreed with many, many. Things you said during, in fact, probably more than most other candidates when you were running for president, but I still would not have voted for you because you're an indian. We'll get back to that.

Vincent Oshana
Just skip over the racism. First of all, did you know she was. Because it seems like when you guys are starting, there's a little bit of tension. I don't know if there was, like pre getting started where there was tension or not. Oh, you're pretty good at picking that up, man.

Vivek Ramaswamy
So actually, so to give you the context here. So I ran this podcast during the presidential campaign. I took some time off after the campaign and now, you know, getting back in the swing of things. So we relaunched the Truth podcast, just relaunched it officially last week. So, you know, get that up on the ground.

You'd have good conversations. And I wanted to pick on some people who had poked me a little bit on social media or in other ways to be able to, you know, it's kind of boring to just talk about everybody who agrees with the same thing. Right, right. But let's get a little bit of tension from the left, from the right. So I'll bring Ann Coultron, because during the campaign, I don't remember what exactly she said, but on numerous instances would comment on different ways in which I might not be quite qualified to be president.

Right. So let's get her on and have a conversation. And both of us are interested in the theme of nationalism. I did not expect she would just kick it off right there, get right into the business. And I think it actually made for really good conversation, believe it or not.

Of course, I disagree with hell like her on that being a criteria to be the US president is her description of whether or not you're an indian. I'm born in the United States. I'm as american as they come. But I thought it actually formed a really strong basis for an honest conversation that we otherwise don't have. Cause her view is that in order to actually be a us president, you gotta be even more american.

Right? So you're not fully american if your parents weren't from the United States of America. And in order to trust somebody, the more generations they've been here. Let's say you've been here six or seven generations, you have more of what she would call, I think she did call during the podcast, a security policy. It's like an insurance policy that you know that if you're gonna put somebody in that high office, at least you know that they've really, really soaked up what it means to be american.

Now, I disagree with that. I disagree with that because you have people in the 7th generation, Americans who are the kids of some. I've been to, I've known many of these people grow up in the Upper east side. Some daughter who lives in Brooklyn thinks she's a hippie, talks about hating this country. Well, I don't think that that person's any more american than I am just because my parents happen to have been legal immigrants to this country.

Patrick Bet-David
I got two questions for you, but. It made for a good conversation. I got two questions for you with this on one end, how many people you think are, like, if you were to say of the voter's bloc, what percentage of the voter bloc agrees with her? So say, in the republican primary, in. The republican primary, to say, you know what, I'm not gonna.

Even if it's 1%, 2%, 3%, what do you think it is? So I will tell you this with confidence. It is a lot higher than I believed it was a year ago. Interesting. Yeah, interesting.

Vivek Ramaswamy
It's a lot higher than I believe you would think it is, too interesting. Which is why, and I said this on social media, and some people hit me on the left from it. I said, I respect her for saying it, even though I disagree. Right, right. Because at least she has the spine to say in public what many other people, not a majority, not even close to a majority, but a lot of people.

She's not alone. She is voicing a view that I think is widespread. And, you know, actually, what the hell, we're here. We're just gonna let loose a little bit. I had somebody text me who had run for position.

You guys might know her. Harmeet Dylan. You know, Harmit Dylan. Absolutely. Super cool.

So I hope she's fine with me saying this. Cause I think it's important that the public know we can't just have these conversations behind closed doors, not having the open. So that when she ran for her position of being the chairwoman of the RNC, she had many people tell her the same thing, too, which is interesting to me. Cause most of the grassroots was. A lot of the grassroots were with me, a lot of grassroots were with people like Hamid.

But there are people who believe that if you're electing people to positions of leadership, how american you are is a spectrum. When you were out there campaigning, did anybody face you, confront you and say, I would totally support you, but you're too brown for me. Did anyone say that? So I had many of those for religion. So I didn't have anybody come up and say that because of.

Well, there were people on social media who would make an argument it wasn't on ethnicity. And this is part of Anne's point too. It's the point that you're parents were immigrants to this country and so you are truly not at the highest level of being american to be president of the United States. Right. So we had a number of people that would say that occasionally.

A much more common one though, for people to my face was, I would love to vote for you. It's difficult for me to vote for somebody else. Cause I agree with you more, but I can't do that because you are Hindu. That came up a lot, especially in Iowa. Even the town hall when we did, somebody asked you, one of the ladies got up in the.

Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. Yeah, I asked you the question and I thought your answer was fantastic. But she, I remember her. I was standing on stage, she was standing right there.

Very thoughtful. Yes. I don't think she was in the category of saying I can't vote for. No, she didn't say. She asked a very legitimate question.

He said, tell me about your faith. That's right. Because if you're running for president, I gotta know who you are. And if your faith is important to you, then in order to know who you are, I gotta know your faith. That's different from.

I'm telling you though, I will face people in Iowa. There's pastor in Iowa who wrote an extensive Facebook post. I spent 2 hours with him on the back of a bus talking it through, and he still came out on the other side as he said, if it is God's will for you to be the US president, I will accept it. Respect. But I can't vote for you myself because I can't vote for somebody who doesn't share my.

Patrick Bet-David
Let me stay on this here. So first of all, strategically, I don't know if Ann Coulter wants to sell you some product that Sami Sosa used. I don't know if you're familiar with Sammy Sosa. Sammy Sosa, actually, he white, got white skin. Whitener.

Sammy Sosa. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah, I know. He's basically used, what, Michael Jackson, if you're interested. No, this is real.

This is a real story. He got a skin to be lighter, so you can go couple shade, you know, lighter. Rob, I don't know why you're laughing. I'm trying to make a solution here to make Ann happy. I'm not.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I'm not gonna be a customer. I'm sorry. But he was also there, by the way. This guy hits 66 home runs and he saved MLB in 1998. Let me go back to the question here with this one here.

Patrick Bet-David
Okay. What do you think's more extreme? What do you think is more extreme? Tell me how your argument is on the other side. So one side.

You know what? I don't think America, because, you know, back in the days, what was JFK was. Tom, you said Roman Catholic. It was a Roman Catholic. Where the headlines Nixon was running, it's a Roman Catholic.

We're not ready for Roman catholic president. Okay. And then America said, nah, we're okay with it. Right. You're cool with that?

Okay, we're. We actually cool with that. Do you think. Give me which of these are more extreme. So do you think Ann Coulter's position of saying, no, not only do I want you to be a city natural born citizen, but I also want you to be white, to be a true nationalist, to be a president here.

How about the opposite side? What about somebody that wasn't born here but has lived here for 35 years? Yeah. Should this person have the right to run for office one day in America? If they paid their taxes, they paid their dues, they've lived in America for 35 years.

Should they have the chance to run for office? Should they have the chance to run for us president? No. You don't know why? Because the constitution says so.

Vivek Ramaswamy
So if you want to change, change the constitution. And would you have two thirds of this country and two thirds of the state ratify? That? That's a separate conversation. Right.

But what the constitution says now is you have to be a natural born citizen. Sure. And a natural born citizen as it's ever been read by courts, as it's ever been read through american history for the last century and a half is you're born in the United States of America. And so I think the Constitution is a beautiful thing. We don't have to relitigate these questions every generation.

Go with what the Constitution actually says. And if Ann Coulter is watching, maybe Ann Coulter wants to amend the Constitution and say, naturally born white citizen, right? With a skin tone that is, you know, maybe be put tears in the skin tone to, to please an culture. What do you think? I'm just trying to get some creative ideas.

Adam Sosnick
Speaker one. I mean, Biden's father's father's father's father are all born in America. I would much rather vote for somebody like this than somebody that's families, families, families been here and ain't doing shit. Well, my opinion is this, when it comes down to Vivek, and I told you this last week, I think in, you know how we were going to the GOP debate, we went to all the debates and we'd watch Vivek and we're like, did this guy should crush it tomorrow on the, you know, what do you call it, the polls, right? And you'd go here like six and a half percent, seven and a half percent, like how this guy's not jumping up to 22%, 18%.

Patrick Bet-David
And you realize, because there's a guy in the way of that, not in the way he is what majority of republicans want to run at this year, 2024. And his name is Donald J. Trump, by the way. Rightly so. He's earned the right to be the lead dog of 2024.

There's no question about it. There's a lot of people that want him to go back and do that. What I'm very curious about. Very, very. And by the way, I want to ask, you know, the audience's question, Rob, if you want to run a poll for this, is, in my opinion, you know how an NBA or college basketball, a guy skips, like, the other day, we were with that basketball player that was at the derby with us, a tall guy, the center for Kansas.

I think he left the team to go to Kansas. Tall guy, good looking guy. And we're having a conversation with him, and he said, I think this guy's going to be the number one draft pickup next year. Hunter Dickinson. Yeah.

Shout out to him. Really nice guy. Seven two. But so, to me, my opinion of 2028, presidential candidate, number one draft pick. Number one draft pick, 2028 is Vivek Ramaskar.

Vincent Oshana
I agree 100%. I'm convinced it's number one in the most curious way of just trying to do case studies. I am so curious to know where, let's just say whether Trump wins or loses. Likely to him running in 2028. I don't think he's going to run in 2028.

Patrick Bet-David
He wins. Okay. A lot of he even thinks in Jersey, he said, I think we can win all 50 states. Is what he said, I don't know if you heard his speech say, he wins 2028. Where's MAGA going to want to go today?

Can fill that void. I don't know. I think it's going to be. What do you think about that? The fact that a lot of that audience, I will say this.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I understand why the republican base went for Donald Trump so handily this time around, because it makes all the sense in the world. Right? It's not just about policy vision. It's that this guy's actually done it right. So he's tried and true, and I hadn't done it right.

I'm 38 years old. I'm an entrepreneur. I live the american dream. I have a vision that very closely aligns with Donald Trump's America first vision. There's some small differences here and there in the campaign, but this is a guy who rarely in american history do you get this opportunity.

It's a once in a century opportunity. Actually, the once in a century opportunity in this election is usually you get to measure an incumbent versus somebody who's challenging him, who says, hey, I'm gonna do all of these things that I've never done. Last time you got it with Grover Cleveland. This time you have it. This time around where you get to say, hey, I've got four years of Trump.

Of action, not words. Four years of action. And then four years of action with Biden. Compare and make your choice. So I think the republican primary base, in retrospect, it was never gonna be anyone other than Donald Trump, because that is a rare and unique opportunity to vote for actual action.

Now, MAGa and America first does not end with Donald Trump. In some ways, it didn't begin with Donald Trump. It began in 1776, but Donald Trump revived it. But the question is, who's going to carry that forward? And it's not just going to be the president.

It's going to be people all the way from school board to governor to state legislator to city councilman, but also to us president as well. And so I'll tell you this. I'm not one of these guys who makes elaborate plans to say, okay, well, if this happens, then I'm going to do that. And if that doesn't happen, I'm gonna do the next thing. Cause it never goes according to plan anyway.

But I'm not going anywhere, is what I'll tell you, is we're gonna stay with this fight for the country, and wherever it leads, I'm gonna do it. I have a technical question for you, but I'll stop to ask the question. Cause Adam's got a question. But this technical question is a very heavy question. Go ahead, Adam.

Patrick Bet-David
Go ahead. I will say what I think, but I also give a more of a macro opinion. I agree with Pat that you should be the leading candidate in 2028. You have style, you have substance, you have policy, and you have personality, you got pizazz, and you also know your stuff. I've said openly and loudly, Vivek is literally the smartest guy I've ever sat down with.

Adam Sosnick
I've also said the following. There's no chance that the republican base is voting for a brown guy. I've said it on this podcast multiple times. Hear me out. Because Ann Coulter said out loud what many people are thinking.

And you said yourself, and this is gonna be my question. Oh, I didn't realize that the base actually wasn't ready for all this. Now, you're born in America. You're from Ohio. I want to say, more presidents have come out of Ohio than any state in the union.

Right. It's up there. Seven or so. Yep. Okay.

So as far as I go, I would vote for you in a heartbeat. Thank you. Man. If you were a Democrat, if you were a woke progressive DeI guy checking all those boxes, bing, bing, bing, you'd be the next Obama, no doubt. You know, you know, you've been said before, skinny kid with a.

With a weird last around with that, but it was great. But with a conspiracy, you are the. Perfect candidate on the left. On the right. There is a challenge there.

And I'm not saying that you're gonna go left here. What did you learn that you admittedly said, I had no idea that this was gonna be more of a challenge than I thought. Well, look, I think a couple things. First of all, to be clear, to state the obvious, I think the reason I did not win the republican presidential nomination has nothing to do with my skin color. It has to do with.

Patrick Bet-David
I don't think so. There's a part of it. The reason I didn't win it, I think the reason I didn't have to. Do with Trump 1 million%. Exactly.

Vivek Ramaswamy
You have somebody who's key to that. You're somebody who's been tried and true. Yes. But then you look at a lot of the data of the people who are loving me at these. See, I thought my support in Iowa on the ground.

I mean, the people were drawing the energy level so high compared to, you see, a lot of the other candidates campaigning in Iowa, very dull. Yet many of those people with a lot of energy coming to my stuff, went in there and voted for Donald Trump. They love me and what I had to say, but they love Donald Trump as the next us president more number one draft pick. And I get that. So that's, I think, where it comes from.

Now, did I learn something? I think I did underestimate the trust factor overall. See, I put all of these into a broader category of build and trust. You're somebody new, somebody who's young, somebody who. Yes.

Is a little different in a number of ways. You could put ethnic lineage, religion in that category. You got a guy who isn't known to most of the american public. Yes, I actually. I mean, different people have different gifts, and I'm bad at a lot of things.

But one of the things is, I do like to explain my views in detail, and sometimes people like that, but sometimes people find that skeptical, too. They're skeptical of somebody who's gonna explain something in the way that I do. Is he just selling me on something that he doesn't really believe in? So all of that, I think, came together to say that they got to know me this time around. Many people, many of our supporters, once they became star supporters, didn't go back.

I mean, these are people who, even to this day, or running through walls to try to advance my vision for this country. But I think unambiguously, the reason why I wasn't the nominee this time is because there was a guy who was proven who had done it, who I am supporting fully, by the way, and who I hope is the next president. And I think that's actually the most important takeaway. And so I'm not of the view that somebody can't win a republican or a democratic nomination, for that matter, based on their skin color. If the white guy can win the democratic nomination for a race obsessed left, certainly a nonwhite guy could win the republican nomination for.

For a party that under stands for that. That means fair to say, and I agree with Pat, like, number one candidate, 2028. Is it fair to say? I know you don't want to probably look ahead too far. When do you make a decision like 2028?

Adam Sosnick
Vivek's running it back. I'll tell you. Here's what I will say, is I hope that I'm not in the position to have to run for president, consider running for president for this country. If we're in good shape as a country, there's not a job I need to do. I really don't.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I enjoy doing. I mean, think about kind of stuff I've taken up till after the campaign, reengaging the creative side of my brain, taking on a lot of projects in the private sector. I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I'm a father of two sons. I enjoy nothing more in this world than raising those two boys.

If this country. I don't believe this country requires somebody to step up and actually make that sacrifice. If we're back to normal times, hell no, I'm not running for president. But the only reason I would do it is if I believe this country actually required it. So I'm hoping this as one man, I'm hoping that we're not there.

And if we are there, that means there's a job that needs to be done, because I'm doing it as a father. Right. I want my kids to grow up in a country greater than the one that I grew up in and that my parents came to. I hope that's not the position we're gonna be in in 2028. After four successful years of Trump's presidency.

I hope that this is a job that somebody else can do to carry forward. But if it's required, that means it's gonna be urgent for the future. Vivek, Vivek. You mean to tell me the $400,000 a year salary doesn't attract you to mention that part? Now, I gotta.

I gotta rethink this, buddy. Last question with that. The amenities in that, let's say, hypothetically, free car. Let's say, hypothetically, Trump does lose. Hypothetically, does that mean all but certain you're gonna throw your cannon?

I think if Trump loses, this country's in deep trouble. Right, right. And my work for this country, all of our work for this country can't wait for even four years. That's gotta start immediately. And so that's the way I'm approaching it.

Even right now, I think we're skating on thin ice as a country. Every one of us has to look ourselves in the eye and say, how are we gonna make a difference now? I'm not going to plant. Who knows if four years from now is going to look even the way it does today? You got to start right now.

And so that's the urgency with I'm approaching this year, I think politics is not the only way to drive positive change in the country. People forget that a lot of this is going to happen through the private sector, through our educational system. I've lived the american dream. Be smarter through philanthropy, even. I think there are a lot of different ways that we must be required to drive that change in the country.

And so, as I said, the only chance I would run for president in the future is if I felt like the future of the country depended on someone like me stepping up to do it. And let's hope we're not there. So let's talk about current jobs. Let's just say the president calls you former president, who's running right now. Trump calls you, he wins.

Patrick Bet-David
Vivek, I want you to be the VP. I want you to be after he went Dag, I want you to be secretary of commerce. I want you to be. Is there any job you would say no to if he called you to say, I want you to help me with XYz jobs? Well, look, I think it would be work more like a conversation, right?

Vivek Ramaswamy
In terms of where am I going to have maximal impact, and if he proposed a job where I thought I wasn't going to be effective, I thought I wasn't going to make best use of my skill set. I've got a relationship with Donald Trump who I respect immensely, where we're going to have a conversation about that and actually set up for maximal impact for the country. If he knows who I am, and we've got to know each other really well, if after knowing all of that, he would ask me to be vice president, or, you know, you brought up that example, let's just answer really honestly. Anybody who cares about this country who's aligned with his vision in the republican party today, if they're asked to be vice president, is going to say yes and has a responsibility to say yes. And so I think that that goes without saying.

Then you go one by one through the other positions. I think we know each other well enough that I'm not going to get some suggestion that wouldn't match up with my skills or my interest. But I do think that one of the things I'm going to be looking at is how do I maximize impact for the country. Every one of us has our own unique God given gifts. We got five of us here.

Six of us, including our. What's it. Rob, Rob, Rob. All right. Six of us in this room blowing.

Patrick Bet-David
Up on my neck, bro. Every one of us has different skills, and by the way, he has different skills than I do. God knows I couldn't be doing what he's doing, I'll tell you that for sure. Every one of us has our own unique God given gifts, and we got to look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves, how are we going to use those gifts to do what is right for this country in the short time that we're given. And so I'm going to do that.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Think about things that I talked about during the campaign that were very important to me. I think fixing this issue of illegal immigration and border security in this country, fundamental. Draining the swamp, actually, to get the mass deportation number one of a million illegals who have already been given their final orders of removal, and millions more who are in this country illegally. That's the first mass deportation. But the second mass deportation I care about is the mass deportation of 3 million federal bureaucrats out of Washington, DC.

So I think those are both pretty important areas that the next administration and the next president can score some pretty quick wins on actually draining the swamp, actually gutting the bureaucracy, and actually fixing this border crisis and the illegal immigration problem. Those are things I've been focused on over the last year. So there's no job, he calls you and you're gonna say no to? Well, I think that. I think there's probably, if he called me with the job that I didn't think I was well suited to help this country through, I would tell him that, and I think that we would have a conversation moving in a different direction.

Patrick Bet-David
Okay, so let me ask you another question. Have you ever technically killed a dog? Not only and right about it, important people nowadays. I never thought people would ask this question. I'm not even non technically, okay.

I just want to. I'm a vegetarian, man. I know that's. Let me stay on this here. Let me stay on this here.

So here's another question for you. So we had a guy in Dallas, billionaire, and one of his former CFO's ends up working for us. And this guy's like, you know, everybody that was ever his CFO, they always got fired, he says, but I knew when to quit before he fired me because I didn't want to be part of the list of getting fired. Right. And I always been like, you know what a way of processing the issue, you know, quit before you get fired.

When you think about guys that went and worked for him, that accepted a job, how do you feel about the fact that, say, he gives you a job and then a month, three months, six months, nine months later, he fires you? How do you process that with your chances of 2028? Does that fear at all consume your mind at all? No. Okay.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Not at all. Is it because you don't think you're not? I'm just not wired that way. I mean, Patrick, I tell you something, because you're an entrepreneur, too. But sure, first of all, it's been a long time since I've been in an employment situation, right?

I've been. I were it not for serving this country, and particularly Donald Trump in the presidency, I couldn't imagine working for somebody, period, again in my life, but told myself I wasn't gonna do that. I would be working for a guy. But this, this is working for the country, and this is, that's what Donald Trump is doing. He's working for the country.

Patrick Bet-David
Sure. That's what he's doing, too. You know who the ultimate boss is in this job? Taxpayer. It's the people, citizens of this country, actually, taxpayers, but the citizens of the United States of America.

Vivek Ramaswamy
That's the ultimate boss. So that's who Donald Trump's going in to work for and in serving and helping him do a good job, that's who I'm gonna go in and work for if he'd like to have me in that administration and if he's successful in winning this election. Okay, so that's the way I think about it. And so, no, I'm not. Maybe I'd be more successful if I were this way, but I'm not wired this way, where you make these nested charts and say, okay, well, there's this scenario, and that thing could happen.

One of the things I've discovered is every time I've earlier phases of my life tried to do that, it never went according to that plan anyway. Your plans are stupid, actually. You got to have a broad strategy. You got to have a broad purpose. But once you sort of get into the different tactics and try to pretend like you know everything that's going to happen, when, in fact, you have no idea, none of us has any idea what's going to happen.

I mean, I don't mean to say this in a, in a morbid way, but we're at greater risk of something terrible happening in this country in the next year, in the next seven months than probably we've been in any time in our adult lifetime, probably in our lifetime. Many will agree with you, 10 million people who entered this country illegally. So we're sitting here. I can't be pontificating about, oh, here's the position that I would like versus a different position, and that's the job I'm gonna do that's gonna set me up for 2028. I'm worried we're gonna have serious bad stuff that goes down in this country of a scale we haven't seen in 20 years, and how are we gonna prevent that from happening.

Vincent Oshana
They've warned us every week, Christopher Ray's warning that something's happening. Anthony Blinken. It's like, guys, get ready, get ready. They keep showing all these movies of leave the world behind, civil war. They're prepping us for something big.

But I'm gonna say, we told you. What's important about what you just said is the fact that whatever the president chooses to hire you for when you guys process it together, your game, because it's America first. Whatever America needs me today, I'm willing to do. Not me first. It's not Donald Trump first.

Vivek Ramaswamy
It's America first. And that's what I love about Trump, and I think I'm gonna try to spread that across this country. Everybody, speaker one. So while we're on this topic, both of you guys have a reputation, okay? He has a reputation of firing a lot of people.

Patrick Bet-David
He had a show called apprentice that he was firing everybody in Jersey. He said, I can't wait to go to president. Have you seen this clip, Rob, or no, I can't wait. Type in Trump, Biden, you're fired. Type in Trump, Biden, you're fired.

Right. And I'm going somewhere with this, so if you can find it. I think that's the one right there. Yeah, that's it. If you can zoom in and play this clip.

Vinnie Ghaziet. Yeah. Watch it. This is good. Go ahead.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I'm sure nobody ever saw the apprentice. That was a big hit. That's a big hit. That was a big, powerful hit. But I'm gonna look at that guy, and I'm gonna say, joe Biden, you're the worst ever.

Joe Biden, you're fired. Get out of here. You're fired. So he wants to fire Joe Biden. How does it feel knowing you're the one that fired Ronna McDaniel?

So I'm a big fan of move forward. Right? You got a goal if somebody's in a job they shouldn't be in, and it's causing net negative results. I believe in accountability. But you know what?

I made a promise, which is I got nothing against her personally. Zero. Nothing against her personally. I just think she was not the. Right person for the job.

So now that she's out of the way. Yeah. That's never happened. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I got nothing personal.

Patrick Bet-David
I know you don't, but he said it was wrong. Vivek, in the history of debates, I. Please play this role. He went after everybody. Let me tell you.

Vincent Oshana
Ever, we're here 40 years, 40 years. From now a kid is professor's teaching poly science some university. They're gonna show this as a case study. This the one or is a shorter one? This is two minutes.

Patrick Bet-David
Can you find, is it. I have the shorter one where he just offers the remainder of his. That's what I want you to do. Play that one. We were here right there.

Go ahead and play this clip. Go ahead. Answer the republican establishment. Speak the truth. I mean, since Ronald McDaniel took over as chairwoman of the RNC in 2017, we have lost.

Vivek Ramaswamy
20 18 20 20 20 22 no red wave that never came. We got trounced last night in 2023. And I think that we have to have accountability in our party for that matter. Ron, if you want to come on stage tonight, you want to look the GOP voters in the eye and tell them you resign, I will turn over my yield, my time to you, by the way. I mean, you know, you realize you indirectly, I mean, you hurt unemployment rate because somebody lost a job that day.

Patrick Bet-David
That was a publicly to do it the way you did it, Vivek. So I am unsparing when a job needs to get done and somebody standing in the way, I will stop at nothing. I'm a dog with a bone until we get the job done. But after that, I'm not looking back at the, at the, the person we moved out of the way. I'm looking for moving on.

Yep. Exactly. Because we got, we got bigger obstacles along the way. So that's the way I'm wired. But yes, you can count.

Vivek Ramaswamy
You have my commitment that whatever I do in the future, I'm not going to, I'm not going to play with. Speaker one on this topic. On this topic. I've asked Kobe this, I've asked Shaq this question on this topic. You can vote for yourself right when it's okay, put a starting five together.

Patrick Bet-David
Can I include myself? No, you can't count yourself. I don't know if you can answer this question or not. Out of all the people, can't rob, can you pull up the, the Vegas odds that Adam invented? Can you pull that up the Vegas odds?

Because this is a qualifier. Now do you know which one I'm talking about? Is this the one, Adam or there's a bad check, but this is fine. This is fun. So you got Tim Scott, Doug Bergam, Tulsi Gabbard, Elisa Stefanik, Rubio, Carson Vivek, Haley DeSantis, huckabee gnome.

Out of those, who do you think would be a, if President Trump is asking a question, saying, you know, give me counsel. Who do you think would be a good VP selection? What would you say? Look, I mean, in fairness, I'm not gonna be with. I'm gonna be with Trump for much of the rest of this week.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Right. And so I'm not gonna publicly air what my private counsel is to him, just as somebody who's asking me for actual advice. I'm not. So maybe not Trump asking. Maybe I'm asking you like, I'm going to Vegas.

Patrick Bet-David
I'm saying, hey, Vivek, who would be a good, you know, person to bet on if I'm going to Vegas tomorrow? I'll say. I'll say a few good things about a couple of people on this list, right? Somebody I got to know pretty recently is Ben Carson. He is somebody who.

Vivek Ramaswamy
So he came to Columbus, Ohio. It's my hometown. I got to, I met him for the first time there. We're doing podcasts and everything together. Right.

But I will tell you that he is somebody who. My wife, she's a physician. She is a throat surgeon. When she was in undergrad, there was somebody who visited her when she was at Yale and gave an inspiring talk to a small group on why he became a surgeon. That man was Ben Carson.

Patrick Bet-David
Get out of here. Right? I mean, my wife, she's excellent at what she does. She's one of. I can only imagine how many people that man's actually given inspiration to.

Vivek Ramaswamy
And the funny thing is, he wasn't supposed to be a good student, right? He was a guy who never victimized himself based on his skin color, but he wasn't the best in his class. He told me for a while until he actually studied and got the heck ahead. And so I like that spirit, and I like the fact that there's a role for everybody. Would I have voted for Ben Carson over Donald Trump in a presidential primary when they ran against each other?

No, that's a different story. But do I believe that he is somebody whose heart is in the right place and who is learned a lot and has a level of wisdom and could actually provide a level of counsel to somebody in an executive position? Absolutely, I do. And has he given inspiration to a lot of people, including my wife? Including to me, I think I would say that about him right now.

Who's going to be the best vice president? There's some other people on that list, too. I hadn't seen that list, by the way. So it's interesting that you brought it up. I think that's up to each chief executive to decide, you don't say, okay, who's the CEO gonna hire in a role?

And then somebody armchair quarterbacking that decision. So I've got good things to say about a number of people on this list, but I just picked Ben because I met him recently, and he's a truly good hearted man who loves this country and I think is different. I also have a love of outsiders. I don't like people who grew up in the. I don't like when people who grew up in politics remain in that festering swamp of politics.

So I think it's good when you got somebody who's been a surgeon or somebody who's been a businessman coming in from the outside to shake things up. What do you think about Tulsi? I like Tulsi because she's an independent thinker. Actually, she's somebody who tell you a funny story about Dulce. We had.

We were at a dinner recently. I hope all these people don't mind me just sharing these stories, but whatever. It's kind of fun. We were at a mexican restaurant in Texas, and the funny thing about Tulsi is, so I'm usually in this position, okay, where we go to mexican restaurant, I told you I didn't kill the dog. You asked me, but I'm vegetarian.

Right. So we've done this. We've done this when you and I have had lunch together, right? So somebody will come by. And I was like, oh, is this, you know, is this thing vegetarian?

Is this thing vegetarian? It kind of holds up the whole table. It's a little bit inconvenient, but whatever. I'm raised that way. It's part of my conviction, and so I do it anyway.

This time, we're going around the table, and we're at a mexican restaurant, and there's all the usual questions. Oh, is your rice vegetarian or is your beans vegetarian? I'm not the one asking the questions. It's Tulsi Gabbard. And so I got to just say, okay, good.

She did all the hard work. I just said, you know, I'm just gonna have what she's having. That's cool. Which is funny, but I respected that. Cause it was.

It still showed somebody who, say what you will about the conviction at least has some conviction. I also love the fact that she has been outspoken against a lot of the foreign intervention that hasn't best served this country. And I think that she is, in her heart, as best I can tell, somebody who is against unnecessary war. I share that in common. I think Donald Trump shares that in common.

I think it's a beautiful thing that we could use more of in both parties, frankly. And so, you know, I've got positive things to say about a lot of people on that list in terms of who's as a vice president role. That's a decision that one man gets to make, and that's the person who's the president, which is hopefully. Let me ask you a question, though. So with the Ann culture and, you know, and the position that you said about, you know, the magas and the people, the 7%, low percent, how much, if Vivek, if Trump picks Vivek to be the vice president, how much does that help him for the 2028 election?

Vincent Oshana
Like, where does that crowd go? Oh, if he's bringing him as vice president, then we're 100% going all in instead of the end quote. That's it. Like, I'm just curious how much you think that shifts if Trump actually puts him as vice president. If you, Vec, becomes a vice president and for four years, they see these two just go after the deep state, go after everybody, flip everybody off, and like, this is America first.

What's up? How much do those people say, you know what, I don't care. He could be from anywhere. We're going for him. Tom, what do you think?

Vivek Ramaswamy
This fascinating man watching the analysts here? No, I'd love to see him pick you for all the reasons that I think I articulated once before, and this is sincere, that is a qualified list there. Tulsi has been on the podcast. We've talked to her. We know some of these people.

Tom Ellsworth
And so we've been able to do a little bit more than just a, than just a, you know, inspection well, watching them on tv. We've met them. And you know what? You are articulate. You are stick smart.

I would love to see, my personal hope and dream was that if you weren't VP, you'd be agey. Because I think an attorney general, that just would cut through. It would be strong. But I think you would absolutely be a benefit to the country because you're no b's and you're really smart and you're driven on it. And that's what I think.

And I think right now, America's just kind of playing a parlor game of who's going to be where. And Trump's hopefully taking really great counsel from really great people. And I'm glad you'll be with him this week. What are you talking about? How much do you think helps?

Patrick Bet-David
Don't play dramatic time. Yeah, I'm saying, real answer. How much of that percentage that they said, what, like 7% or whatever. How much you think that that shifts? And they just say, listen, Trump has a Ms.

Vincent Oshana
VP. Once Trump is done, we don't. Everybody's going to. Vivek, how much you think that percentage goes of his chances to be the president? Oh, I think it goes a lot.

Tom Ellsworth
I think. I think it moved as much as 50% because I think any rational person has to look at both men that are currently the presumptive candidates and say, the VP this time is very important on an actuarial basis. Yeah, well, Vivek, just to cut through the clutter here, the VP pick will be the next leading candidate for the presidency in 2028. Just to cut through that. But on this topic, I don't think so.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I just. Yeah, I mean, I don't think so. I'm just in a camp where I'm. I don't think so. I respect the people who have a lot of conviction about telling something in the future.

I'm actually. One of the things I found is I'm very good at understanding what my convictions are in the present. I'm not particularly good at predicting one off facts in the future. Right. So I stick to the business that I'm best at, which is identifying my own convictions and following them.

But I'm finding the conversation fascinating on this list. You've shared the stage with many people on this list. I know you're a vegetarian, Vivek, but there's only one person you had full on beef with, and that is Nikki Haley. You see her odds here? Thoughts on Nikki?

Adam Sosnick
Thoughts on her as a VP? And was that beef actual? Cause she. At one point, it got personal. What was that experience?

Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, I think it was interesting. I don't think I've. I don't think I've talked about this one before either. My first time meeting Nikki Haley was actually her reaching out to me proactively when very few people in this country know who I was to set up a call with me. I was just rolling out my book woke incident.

And I got to give her some credit. I mean, my understanding is, apparently. I mean, I only know the excerpts that have come out from Christine Ome's book, but apparently she reached out to Christine Ohm, too. This is somebody who has been for a long time identifying who are going to be the potential players in the future. This is long before I thought of myself as even a player in politics.

And so she set up a half hour zoom call congratulated me on what a good job I was doing. I said, this is interesting. I wonder what's going on there. So I think that I always had a. I will tell you, it left me a little skeptical, actually, was the response that I had, because I was so flat.

A lot of things that were said to flatter me, someone proactively reached out to have a conversation. I'm a guy who not many people have heard of. I said, what was the objective there? Right. I was a little bit.

I was a little bit cynical. And I think that one of the things I learned is, this isn't specific to her, but I have. I'm basically the opposite of what I've observed many professional politicians to be. Right. Many professional politicians are all about trying to figure out what you want to hear and then telling you more of that.

And I'm in the business of identifying what my own convictions are as human beings. Have some of those changed or everything you believe ten years ago the same as you believe today? No, but what are my convictions? What are my most deeply held convictions today, and how do I stand for them? And so when I look at people who have grown up in that sport of professional politics and then embrace policies that sometimes align with their own self interest, the expense of the country.

Yeah. That really does get under my skin. And so I think a lot of the divide that you saw between me and Nikki on the debate stage was grounded in deep seated policy differences. Deep seated differences in what a politician and a public figure and a leader of a country is supposed to be. Is it somebody who has very carefully crafted and planned what they're supposed to say and then carefully rolls that out through careful rigors of poll testing and consultant vetting?

Or is it somebody who's sharing their honest convictions? Is it somebody who believes the sole role of a public servant is to serve the public or that it's okay to serve yourself along the way? Those are fundamental ideological divides. And I think that's what you saw spilling over there a little bit. You also saw, I think, a little bit of the chess game of candidates during the primaries, right?

Yeah. You make alliances and you go after people that are perceptibly starting to roll up in the polls. And she and Chris Christie did that. So there was also a little of. That going on, right?

Patrick Bet-David
Yeah, we were watching it during the break, them talking to each other. Yeah. And by the way, what do you think the Santa stands now, now that everything is over with and in the breaks, I would watch you always go to him to speak with them. I think we were standing by each other most of the time. That was sort of the, but it.

Was always you trying to find a way to engage and you wouldn't really engage. Yeah, but I think, I think there's one or two instances. I think there was. I mean, I try to be polite. Right.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I think, I think he was saying something like MNRA vaccine. And I just wanted to be respectful. I don't wanna call him out on stage for it, but it's, you know, I told him it's mrm. Yeah. I mean, just small stuff.

Right. It's friendly, you know, friendly. Little tip here and there. I remember that was one of the instances where are you guys good? Do you guys communicate or not at all?

I don't think we've, I don't think we've communicated since the campaign. I saw him at NASCAR. I remember that I went to Daytona 500. We were both in the pre game routine they had. Maybe I've seen him once or twice, but I think I've got no particular beef with, with Ron.

Patrick Bet-David
I think that no relationship either. Like, you guys haven't broke bread, had dinner. We don't, there's other people on my relationship with nothing, you know, but not him. We don't, we never exchange numbers. But I will say that backstage, it was always, it was always relatively specific, relatively courtesy.

Vivek Ramaswamy
They got kids the same age, you know, I think a poor and Casey sat next to each other at some of the debates. And so we've got, we've got, you know, no beef there. Okay, let's go to the next topic. Next topic. Michael Cohen.

Patrick Bet-David
Rob, if you want to put, I don't know if you got any of the clips or not. Michael Cohen testifies Trump's backed payments to suppress news that could hurt 2016 campaign. This is a Reuter story. And then he comes out and, you know, he says what he says, Adam, if I'm not mistaken, what's the phrase that he said? Just do it.

Adam Sosnick
Regarding the hush money payments. He can punch in on that. Trump told him to just use the nike.

Vivek Ramaswamy
What's been going on? Michael Cohen testified that he, Donald Trump National Choir publisher David Pecker collaborated suppressed negative stories damage in Trump 2016 campaign exemplified by $130,000 stormy Daniels to silence her about a sexual encounter she allegedly. Cohen recounted Trump's directive to prevent the release of Karen McDougal. Story of an affair with the Trump's asking, so what, is he gonna be testifying tomorrow too? Apparently he's going to heat just I'm.

Gonna be there tomorrow. I'll be there tomorrow. Really? In the courthouse? I'm going to the courtroom tomorrow.

Yeah. So, by the way, what, what do you think about all of this? What everything that's going on here, how much of this is helping? How much of this is hurting? How are you processing this?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not following the day to day, obviously, as the trial's running, but I read about the summaries in the evening, and I wanted to go tomorrow more just as a friend and now supporter of Trump, to be able to actually show support by being present, not anyone's any other capacity other than my own. But I will say that every day this trial proceeds the trend that I've seen. I didn't follow today's, but up to today, all we've seen is one more layer of the onion of how the whole thing's a charade. Right. If you think about this, imagine a good way to imagine whether something's a politicized prosecution is right, because everyone's going to be, you know, MSNBC has their histrionic points, and then they would look at people who are defenders of Trump, like myself, as being partisans on the other side.

Here's a good litmus test. Okay? If the prosecution's theory of the case said you did something wrong, what if you had done the exact opposite thing? Okay. Okay.

So let's play that out then. That should mean you did not do something wrong, right? Let's try that on this set of facts. On this set of facts, the basic theory of the case is the prosecution says in order for them to charge this as a felony, that Donald Trump's payment to stormy Daniels should have been recorded as a campaign contribution. That's the heart of the case.

Without that, they couldn't charge this as a felony. It would only be a misdemeanor. That's outlived the statute of limitations, the falsifying business records. It's outside the statute of limitations. It's a misdemeanor, not a felony.

The only basis for this being a felony is if there's a different underlying crime, which what they allege is that he made, effectively a campaign contribution without it being recorded as such. So now apply my test. If the prosecution says that's the thing you did, and it's wrong, imagine you did the exact opposite. What would the exact opposite be? The exact opposite would be Donald Trump using campaign funds to make a personal hush money payment.

In that scenario, I have no doubt these people would be going after him and they would have a much stronger case in that scenario. So now think about it. If he did thing a, is this got to break the step. He did thing a, and you said, that's wrong. Let's say he did the exact opposite of thing a and did thing b, and you would have an even stronger case for him then that means you were going to get him no matter what.

So that is the proof that this is a politicized persecution through prosecution. I think everybody kind of knows it in their bones, but you gotta just see it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Literally, they're gonna get him going or get him coming. And that, I think, is the airtight proof that this thing is a sham.

It's been a sham since day one. It's revealed itself to be a sham throughout the course of this trial. And I think it will be a stain on the history of our country if this man is convicted in the middle of a presidential election on the back of these bogus charges. That's what I believe. It's so embarrassing.

Patrick Bet-David
Here's what CNN was saying to go ahead and play this, Rob.

Vivek Ramaswamy
But I've never seen a witness who's lied to Congress, who's lied in court, who's lied to the IR's, who's lied to the southern District of New York, who lied to his banker. You know, the entire prosecution witness team has been lied to by Michael Cohen. I mean, this is CNN. Yeah, I'm shocked. This is not Fox News saying this.

Vincent Oshana
I'm shocked. Can you imagine, like, you're friends with Michael Cohen, you go out to dinner, hey, Michael, what I'm about to tell you right now, you can't tell anybody. Oh, trust me, I'm not telling nobody. Oh, he's the worst half the world's gonna find out what you're doing. So.

Patrick Bet-David
And they're using Michael Cohen. What type of credibility does he have left to even get up to where they're like, yeah, this guy's a credible. Doesn't that actually hurt them instead of help them? You would think, but you know, that you could say that about this whole trial. That's exactly the effect it's had.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Wouldn't that hurt them rather than help them to levy false charges against a former US president? And that has been the effect that it's had. I think a lot of people are saying that, you know what? Do I agree with everything Donald Trump has ever said in his life? No.

Did I vote for him in 2020? Some of them may say no, but do I believe that it is wrong for a party in power to use the powers of prosecution to try to lock up their political opponents in the middle of an election. That's foundational stuff. That's the stuff of tearing down our democracy. And so a lot of those people are actually coming Trump's way this year, and for good reason, and I think that's good for the country.

And so wouldn't this be expected to work against them? That's effectively what. You've seen it every step of the way. So, yeah, it's no surprise it would apply to this one, too. Yeah.

Patrick Bet-David
Were you going to say something or. No, no. Well, if Trump did go to jail, I think 80% of Trump's base said they would vote for him no matter what. 4% said that they would, it would change their vote, 16% would reconsider. How much would it help Trump for him to actually go to jail?

Adam Sosnick
Because Pat made a very impassioned case, I don't know, a week ago. Like, send them to jail, lock them up, see what happens. What are your thoughts? I think it would be devastating for the country. I think it would be embarrassing for the United States of America that other countries would look at us and see a party in power and a regime that locks up a political opponent on spurious charges.

Vivek Ramaswamy
If this had happened in any other country, we'd call it a banana Republican autocracy. So I would be ashamed, as an american, as a citizen of this nation, I would be ashamed if that's what happens. But electorally, I think that it would have the effect of doing the thing that we're already on the trajectory to do, which is to elect Donald Trump with a decisive mandate. And I do think this has to be a decisive mandate. A 50.1 isn't going to cut it this time.

A decisive win, minus some shenanigans, is still a decisive victory. Right. And so I think that's why a landslide is required, and I think a landslide is very. Well what they're setting us up for this time around. And the other case, Vivek, the one that the FBI planted documents, Mar a Lago.

Vincent Oshana
Jack Smith, an FBI agent involved, apparently, they took photos of secret document, the COVID letters on top of them, and then the case was suspended indefinitely. It's like every single one of these is a sham. It's all. It's all B's. So, in fact, my thing is this.

Let's say, God willing, he beats all these, you know, he doesn't get arrested, he gets in that same swamp. Vivek those same people, these same judges, the same. They're all still going to be there, I understand. Trying to drain the swamp, but that swamp, you drain it, that's getting filled right back up. You know what I mean?

How does he fight that? The way I look at it is it's like an eight headed hydra. It's like a monster. And you cut off one of the heads, it grows right back. You got to slay the beast at its core.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Right. And so this is going to require doing the hard thing. The easy thing to do is to say, I'm going to fire Christopher Wray and replace him. I'm going to fire the head of this agency or replace him. I think the harder thing is to say we're actually going to get in there and shut it down, actually.

And is there some risk to doing this? Of course there is. Right? There's efficiency risk. Is there going to be some inconveniences from shutting down agencies that are presumably doing at least some important work?

Many of them aren't. But even if you presume there's one iota of important work they're doing, is there some inconvenience? Yes. But you're always taking a risk. Sometimes the risk is that you don't cut enough fat.

Well, the opposite of that risk can't be, oh, I'm just going to cut exactly the amount needed. No, you can't say you're going to do that. The opposite risk you're taking is you cut so much that you cut some muscle. So which risk are you going to take? I take the risk of now the point in our country's history that we live in, things have gotten so dire, I will take the risk of cutting some muscle and building back what we overcut than the risk of not cutting enough.

Why do I say that? Because we've seen what the other model looks like. The thing just grows right back. And this is where I think the republican party struggles a little bit. Right?

We talk a big game as a party about the weaponization of government, but push comes to shove, what do you do? Reauthorize FISA 702. Not even reauthorize it. That's a mistake. Expand it.

That's what they did to give that very government the tools of greater weaponization that you were once going on cable television on evening to complain about. Okay. You have Republicans that will complain about the overgrowth of the administrative state, yet actually vote to authorize the expansion of those same agencies. And so I think that the partisan jockeying here the partisan jousting is really a little bit of theater. I don't think that Republicans, most of them at least, have been overly serious about actually draining the swamp, about actually gutting the bureaucracy.

I don't think they've even been very serious about actually sealing the border or dealing with mass migration in this country. Cause if you had a party that does have a majority of the House now and has had majorities of the House and Senate for a lot of the last 20 years, we would not be where we are right now. And so, yeah, I know a lot of people are in the business of just claiming the radical Biden agenda, and I complain about that plenty myself as well. But if we want to actually have the result in 2024 that we should have, we can't just be complaining about the other side. We got to stand for our own vision and what we actually stand for.

That's why we didn't have the red wave in 2022. It wasn't because of abortion. It wasn't because of Trump. It was because the Republicans got lazy. And all we would do is complain about the radical Biden agenda.

That's not enough. We gotta actually stand by our own convictions and say, here are the risks we're willing to take to save this country, because if we don't, we're not gonna have a country left. This is what we stand for, right? And I think four. Cutting those agencies, four, 3 million federal bureaucrats being firing, four, actually moving our own military to our own southern border and completing the wall and ending birthright citizenship for the kids of illegals.

And, yes, it's logic. If you've had the largest mass influx of illegal migrants in american history, then it makes sense that you would have the largest mass deportation in american history. Those are the kinds of things we got to stand by. Which, you know what's funny, some people may say, are those extreme policies. To the contrary.

You go to places like the south side of Chicago, you go to the inner cities across this country, talking about those border policies, talking about actually funding american causes versus foreign interests in places like Ukraine. Most people actually, even on the left in the inner cities, are actually sympathetic to Republicans who are willing to stake out those actual positions. And so that's the opportunity I see, and I hope we don't squander it. I got a question I want to get to, because one of the things you're noticing with the Democratic Party, they seem to be very united, where Republicans, they seem to be competing against each other, because there's an element of them. I can do it on my own.

Patrick Bet-David
I don't need you, you know, this versus Democrats, like, no, no, no. We need against each other because the enemy is on the other side. Sometimes you see a little bit of a civil war on the left, but you see more of it on the republican side than the democratic side. Trump just recently said, this is a part of his speech. Donald Trump, I support Israel's right to win its war on terror.

Okay, so this is a. Do you have the video, Rob is. I said, go ahead and play this clip. Joe's action is one of the worst betrayals of an american ally in the history of our country. I support Israel's right to win its war on terror.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Is that okay? I don't know. I don't know if that's good or bad politically. I don't care. You got to do what's right.

You got, it was a terrible attack. October 7 was a terrible attack. I don't know. It's probably bad politically, but I don't care. You have to do the right thing.

There would have been no war in Gaza with me in the White House. Would not have even been a chance. You know, Iran was broke when I was president. I said, if you buy oil, anybody buys oil from Iran, they can't do business with the United States. They were totally broke.

Now they have $250 billion. They made it all in three and a half years. Do you agree with them? So, look, I think every nation has an absolute right to defend itself, and Israel does, too. I think that that's a different point from whether or not the United States should be meddling in other people's business around the world.

You gotta take a look at what's going on in Armenia, Nazerbaijan. Where's the United States tackling that crisis? Right? Selective myopia here. I don't know how deep you want to go to this, but here you've got the United States staying seemingly silent as you got Azerbaijan displacing 120,000 armenian Christians from the Nagorno Karabakh region, which since the early 1990s has been agreed this is exactly where they're allowed to be.

But it's not just that the United States is staying silent, because that would be hypocritical relative to the intervention in other parts of the world. It's that the United States is funding Azerbaijan to actually commit those atrocities. The United States has been funding this behavior. So I could go on for just a list of hypocrisies in other parts of the world that we ignore. But we go into certain areas where we say, hey, the US has to intervene here, when in fact, it's all, I think it's all been a product of incoherent foreign policy coming out of both political parties.

And so I come back to first principles. Every nation has an absolute right to defend itself and its own borders. The United States of America is failing to do that right now. I think the United States of America is patently failing to defend our own borders, and that's a big problem for us. But on the flip side, Israel had a breach of its own borders.

And by the way, people aren't focused on this question, but I think it's a legitimate one. What the hell happened there? I mean, that was ridiculous. It was. It was a.

It was a ridiculous failure of border security. If that could happen in Israel, that could happen right here in the United States of America. That should be our wake up call. But if they did have their border security breached, if that was us in the United States, I wouldn't want some other country telling me that I can't actually defend my own nation. Well, I don't think that Israel should be taking slack from other people who say that they're going to micromanage how Israel responds to its own attack as well.

That's the way I look at it. Did you think this was going to be a, you know, we're looking at the dates of when George Floyd happened. I think it's May 25 of 2020. We've been talking about that a lot lately. Where the day he got shot.

Patrick Bet-David
Not the shot. The day he got killed. What is it, eight minutes and 46 seconds or nine minutes and 46 seconds? Whatever the time was that happened May 26 of. I think he died May 25.

But the protests start on May 26, if I'm not mistaken. So if you go to it, the four year anniversary is coming up. It's two weeks from now. How much it is pro Israel, pro Palestine. Jerry Seinfeld, if he can show this, he's simply the keynote speaker graduating class of Duke.

Right. And he's up there. He's about to get up there on stage. You just had the video a minute ago, rob, if you. Jerry Seinfeld.

He's at the. It shows us one of your yellow videos, so I think you may have it. No, the walkout right there. So this is him? Yeah, this is Duke, if you can play the audio.

And the pro Palestine students get up and they're simply walking out. Now, this is Duke University. This isn't Berkeley. This isn't a lot of times, like, even, who's the guy that played here? Grant Hill played for Duke, right?

Vincent Oshana
Yeah. What was one of the Christian Lakes. Well, you know what nickname they had for Grant Hill when he played for Duke? And I think it was Jalen Rose that said, yeah, black kids that play at Duke, there he was, gave him a no, Uncle Tom, I don't know what nom name they gave him, but there was something, and I don't know if it's Jalen Rose, but that was the reputation. Anybody that goes to Duke, you're a Republican or you're a conservative.

Patrick Bet-David
So this has happened on a campus like this. So pro Palestine, pro Israel. How much of this division you think is intentional? How much of it is real, how much of it is divisive, how much of it is manipulation? You know, because it's bleeding into businesses, it's bleeding into universities, it's bleeding into families, it's bleeding in media network.

Is it real? Is it fake? Is it intentional? So I think a couple things there. Such an interesting topic here.

Vivek Ramaswamy
One is, I like to start with just facts. When I heard about the description of this video, I was, hey, let me watch the video. The video actually surprised me. Right. I imagined, like, when it was student walkout from Duke, I was imagining, like, many of those students flooding out.

What do you see there? You see, like, a small trickle of people holding a flag. They probably don't even know what it is walking out. And most of them are being booed as they're doing it for interrupting the commencement. You saw the same thing at University of Michigan, actually, fringe minority as they're being removed from disrupting the proceedings.

You have uproars in the audience. So I think this is the first thing to observe, is what you're seeing, first of all, is not some tyranny of the majority. It is a tyranny of the fringe minority. Actually, that's the first observation. The second observation is, now let's double click on that minority.

Right? That fringe minority. It'd be one thing, Patrick, if we talked to those people, they had a deep historical understanding of dating back to not only 1960 or 1940, but dating back to zero or 200 bc, and make a historical case for why this land does not belong to Israel and deserves to be autonomous. And from the river to the sea, could they name which river and which sea? That'd be one thing.

That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a group of students, and it's not just students, but it's a generation that is largely lost. And I don't say that insulting anybody. I say it in some ways regretting our own failures as the generation that came before them to give them purpose and meaning in this country, the very people who were protesting after George Floyd's death. And by then, what we're talking about, violent riots, I mean, that was actually one of the interesting things, is you're seeing a lot more media attention here.

You didn't get a lot of media attention in 2020 when they were bashing in storefronts in the inner city across and burning down cities in places like Minneapolis and Wisconsin. That didn't make the news in the way that this is right now, which is interesting, but it's many of the same people or the same kinds of people adopting this cause as their latest cause du jour. And so what do I think is going on? It's a tyranny of the fringe minority. Most of the people in that fringe minority aren't actually against what they claim to be against.

It's just that they don't even know what they actually stand for. They are lost, some of them on these campuses. You could even listen to some of the tapes in the last few months. They were chanting Intifada. That's what they thought they were chanting, but they were actually chanting Infetada, which is not even a word, right?

So they're chanting stuff. They don't even know what it means, right? They're hungry to be part of something bigger than themselves, yet they can't even answer what it means to be an american. And one thing I will say is, one thing that, I gotta be honest, annoys me a little bit, is I was calling a lot of this stuff out back when I wrote my book, Woke Inc. Several years ago.

My publisher and the people who were advising me at the time were wondering whether people would even know the word woke, actually, certainly friends, before I was submitted to the publisher, said, that might be your biggest problem. They don't even know what that title is. And I had people who were opposed to what I was saying then friends in New York City, okay, would say, hey, wait, isn't that a little bit too controversial? Aren't you being too dismissive of concerns about systemic racism? Now, many of those same people are the ones losing their minds over the context of these campus protests.

Where, for me, my question is, where were you asleep at the switch three years ago? Now, in fairness, as we said, people can change their minds and different people can wake up to things that they didn't see before. So I'm never going to fault somebody for evolving their views. But I do think that there is something odd going on where people are refusing to get to the root cause here. When it touches a cause that they care about, then, you know, you might see certain people up in arms.

But we gotta get to first principles. Where this woke stuff was wrong when it was driving the bashing in of stores in the interseed in 2020, it's wrong now when you have college commencement proceedings being disrupted and jewish students not feeling safe to go to their classes, but do it grounded in the first principles in the first place. And I think we can all do a better job of that in this country. What would President Vivek Ramaswamy do to create a ceasefire at this point? Because they're shouting ceasefire.

Adam Sosnick
They're shouting ceasefire. A lot of these kids, river to the sea, they have no clue what it is. They have no idea. They can't spell antifa. I know this very well.

There was a ceasefire October 6, October 7, Hamas broke that ceasefire. And you said yourself, every country has a right to defend themselves. Israel, it seems the only country that can actually execute and win a war. We see what's going on on the college protests. I fully agree with you.

Nobody can tell you what's going on in Azerbaijan. Nobody can tell you there's been a ten year civil war in Yemen. Zero protest. Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, 2 million people killed. Not a peep.

Israel, 30,000 people killed, half of them Hamas terrorists. So what would you do to create a ceasefire? Because Biden's trying to play both sides to win Michigan. Trump, he said himself it's not politically helpful, but I'll stand for what's right. What would you.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Yeah, so I would stand for Israel's right to defend itself, and I would further block any UN micromanagement or EU micromanagement of what Israel can and cannot do to provide the level of diplomatic backing, what I would call a diplomatic iron dome for Israel to be able to defend its own sovereignty. Israel has a right to exist. Israel has a responsibility to exist as an ally. We defended their responsibility to exist. That's different than just starting random preemptive bomb campaigns in Iran or whatever.

I'm not making this up. People advocate for this. All right? Advocating for this stuff right now, Lindsey Graham. So I think that, to name one.

Right. But I think that the way I look at it is you got to be rational. You got to be cool headed. You got to actually stick to first principles. What's the first principle, we believe in here national sovereignty.

And just as we wouldn't appreciate it if, if Israel or any other country were telling us that we couldn't defend ourselves against a breach of our own southern border, and we could debate what's happening in this country right now, just as I wouldn't want another country telling us we can't defend against that. Well, we shouldn't have Israel be told by another country, including our own, what they can and can't do to defend their own national boundaries as well. And that's different from saying, oh, then, yeah, the United States should somehow get involved in some preemptive strike on Iran, which I do think would be a drastic mistake. And so I see, you know, voices in both directions that I think have lost their ability to engage in cool headed rationality. And I think one of the things I would do is you asked me if I was in the position of president, rational first principles.

They're sovereign. They have a right to defend themselves. Stick to it, but not give them money. But not send them money. Well, look, I don't think we should be intervening in specific wars that aren't directly related to the United States.

But if you think about in the Israel case, one thing to say here is their rate limiting step is not money. Israel's not running out of money. They're running out of diplomatic air cover, diplomatic support to do what they need to do. So it's sort of this silly thing which, oh, they're short on diplomatic support. Let's send over cash versus what we're not doing enough of, which is actually diplomatically standing for the principle that Israel absolutely has a right to defend itself.

Go to. Go to Ukraine. Similar sort of first principle. We have to recognize that Ukraine, yes, had a border that was breached by Russia. At the same time, the United States has not kept its own commitments from the early 1990s to support the expansion of NATO.

So do a deal that restores those first principles. NATO is not going to expand to include Ukraine. Say that explicitly rather than the opposite, which is what we're saying today, which is that NATO will definitely admit Ukraine at some point in the future. Use that to pull Russia apart from China, extract some concessions from Russia to be able to say they're no longer to be able to do joint military exercises with China. So I do think it's not to say foreign policy is just like running a business, but just because you don't trust, just because you don't trust somebody doesn't mean you can't trust them to follow their own self interest.

So understand the self interest of each of the actors. Use that to our own advantage to advance american interests. And peace is in America's interest, and that's exactly how it would. And I appreciate you kind of giving some detail to this, because Netanyahu isn't coming here, hat in hand, asking for money. He's literally saying, can we just do what we need to do to defend ourselves and win this war?

Adam Sosnick
Meanwhile, Zelensky is over here literally fundraising and shaming Congress if they don't pass $100 billion of aid to Ukraine. It's totally different. Yeah. I don't love it when somebody is coming here shaming us for not giving us the next hundred billion, when they can't tell us what he did with the first hundred billion. I do.

Vivek Ramaswamy
A problem with that. Vinnie, you look like you want to say something. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, I think I agree 100%. Nobody should, you know, tell them how to defend themselves.

Vincent Oshana
But I think the. The fact that people can't criticize. You mentioned Vivek, which was one of my biggest things that I was standing on was two weeks after October 7, John Kirby stood in front of America and the reporters were like, what happened? He goes, you know what? There's going to be a time.

Now's not the time. It's almost been seven months. Still no answers. Israel's doing what they have to do. Some people are saying it's a little bit overboard, especially Adam.

You said half the people that were killed at 30,000 are Hamas soldiers. I haven't heard that number. I heard it was way less. The majority of the people that have been killed are women and children. I get it.

They want to kill Hamas. They want to get after them. But in regards to Bibi Netanyahu, he was supposed to be on trial on October 7 for bribery, fraud, and breach of trust. How can we trust somebody that's not giving us the answers? We're already all the way over here.

We still don't know, fundamentally, how could the most secure place on the planet, Adam, has been to Israel multiple times. All I keep hearing from people that have been to Israel is, vinny. Everybody's walking around with a gun. The security is top notch. How did this failure of intelligence happen so bad for 6 hours?

These freaking terrorists got to do whatever they did, and there's still no answers of how it. How it happened. When the same. When. When the same people are still in charge.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Right. Is another question to ask. So I think these are hard questions. Ask that. I would ask as american in my own country.

And you know what Israelis are asking in Israel. But the weird thing is, you can't actually ask those questions in the United States. That's what true friends actually do. True friends treat their friends in the way they would treat themselves. And yet, if that happened here in the United States, I would absolutely be asking those questions.

I mean, you put some of those clips of me on the debate stage. I don't hold back in my criticisms of the United States of America, because our country is stronger when we hold ourselves accountable. So I don't think that we're doing our friends any favors when somehow you play with your friends with kid gloves, either. There was a major breach of security failure there, and I think that the israeli press is not carrying Netanyahu's water good. I think the job of a press and a nation is to hold its own government accountable.

But it is a weird dynamic that if the United States, even the United States, you have actors that do the same thing, particularly on the american right, even saying the same things that even the pro Israel press in Israel would be saying. It's a weird dynamic here that I find to be condescending, and I reject that. I think we should have honesty. I've also traveled a lot to Israel. One of the things I love about Israel is, and I find a lot of commonality with the people is you have radically candid people.

Right. Even the business deals I've done candor. That's actually why a lot of them like me and vice versa, we had a great relationship because we could be very candid with each other. And I think that that's what I would bring to our diplomacy as well, is this radical candor, not a strategic ambiguity that, frankly, not only Biden, but even leaders from both parties, pre Trump and the Republican Party, would practice this strategic ambiguity I believe in. You know what?

Here's who we are. Here's what we stand for. Here are the red lines. We draw them. You mess it up, you're gonna have consequences to pay.

And if not, we're gonna actually focus on our own national. The challenge is it's almost like you can't question and ask any questions, right? Even if you look, you gotta be. Able to ask questions. Well, if you look at daily wire, right.

Patrick Bet-David
What happened between them and Candace Owens? Candace Owens, Ben Shapiro, face of the conservative party. I think you can probably put those two names with Tucker. Those are three of the biggest faces of the conservative party. I don't know if I put a name above them.

I think they're top three, digital, top five altogether. Yeah, I think they're in the top five altogether. Right. And all of a sudden, you see daily wire. They're going to be the one that's going to compete with Fox.

Here's what daily wire is doing. Daily Wire is doing this, daily Wire is doing that. They're growing. And next thing you know, while you can't, you know, Candace starts asking some questions. She starts calling out certain people.

She has the shmuley guy and all these other people, hey, what about this? And what about that? And the next thing you know, no, we chose to fire her because we're a publisher. We're not a platform. So they chose to take the position as a publisher, and the rift was this specific topic.

How closely are you following what happened between Candice, Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro, and when you look at that, do you have any thoughts where you say, I think it should have been this way, or I don't know enough about it? What's your position on that so peripherally? Yes. What I've been following more closely is the public sector response. Right.

Vivek Ramaswamy
So, I mean, I'm not in the business of running for the president of Daily Wire, but I was recently in the business of running for president of the United States. So I take a look at what Congress is doing, for example. It's parallel, parallel topic, but in a domain that I think more people will be familiar with than the inside base. We're on a podcast. In the world of podcasting, you know, that seems like a big deal.

Let's talk about what's happening in the country. Is what happened to Israel wrong on October 7? Was that wrong? Absolutely was. Does Israel have a right to defend itself?

Absolutely it does. Is a lot of the anti semitism that we see in response in the United States wrong? Yes, it is, but it is beyond idiotic. It is dangerous that we see an act passing Congress. This is not like some sort of theoretical bill that's been proposed.

That would be bad enough. We've seen that one. You got it up right there. The Anti Semitism Awareness act that has now passed, been passed by the US House of Representatives that literally says there are certain opinions you cannot express in the United States of America. You cannot, I think, different definitions that have been adopted in this bill.

You cannot compare the actions of Israel to Hitler. You cannot question the dual loyalty of Jews in the United States. Do I agree with these claims? Of course not. I think it's ridiculous to compare Israel's actions to those of Hitler.

I think it's disgusting. But the United States of America is the quintessential country where you get to express an opinion. And one of the things that I think we've lost in this country in the last five years is we've had so much mumbo jumbo about all the exceptions to free speech. I mean, if one more person tells me, oh, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, it's just like, okay, you trite truism machine. Of course, Oliver Wendell Holmes said that, yes, you can't threaten to kill somebody.

You can't sell you this and claim to be medicine when in fact, it's snake oil. That's commercial fraud. But here, let me boil down the first amendment to one thing, and it's sad that I have to say this because everyone's forgotten it. But I'm going to make the First Amendment 101 right here, okay? The First Amendment means one thing in the United States.

It means this. You are free to express any opinion, period. That doesn't mean you're free to lie about what this contains. Telling you this is medicine when it's poison doesn't mean that I'm free to threaten to kill you. That's not an opinion.

That's an action. But you are free to express an opinion, no matter how heinous it is. And that law right up there on the screen right now, the anti Semitism Awareness act that has passed the US House of Representatives, including with republican support, is a disgusting anti american response to disgusting opinions that are best defeated through more speech, not less. And so that's the kind of thing where if you see that in our government, can you expect that people in other institutions are going to lose their minds, too? Of course.

Do people stop having the ability to think straight when certain questions come up? I think it's human nature. There are certain questions for certain people, and they're different for different people. Where there's certain questions, you lose your commitment to your original principles. But that's where the rest of us, who can see it with clarity, deserve to remind them to say, hey, here's our principle.

Here's what our first amendment says. It says no matter how disgusting the speech is, you get to express the opinion. That's different from threatening violence. That's different from a lot of the stuff we're seeing in the country. That is not the expression of free speech.

Even on campuses, you don't have the freedom to disrupt somebody else from going to class. No, that's not the First Amendment. But to say that you are what does this say? You know, calling for aiding or justifying the killing of harming of Jews in the name of radical ideology or an extremist view of religion, making mane, accusing. Jews of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing?

Well, that'd be, that'd be disgusting. But it's a, it's a disgusting opinion. But it's an opinion, and all opinions under the First Amendment are protected. And with that bill, so if you can't criticize a certain group, a certain country, a certain people, then they can literally do whatever they want and nobody could say anything. If it gets to that point, then who are you to stop me?

Vincent Oshana
You're going to get in trouble for me saying, wait a minute, Benjamin Netanyahu, kind of weird. Don't know this, don't know that. Oh, you're anti semitic. Now? Here's the thing.

Vivek Ramaswamy
That's not really what's happening in the country. You got college protests stopping people from going to school. So I'm just calling it like I see it across the board, is say a few things. One is what happened, Israel was wrong. Number two is most of these campus protesters have no idea what the hell they're protesting about.

Number three is I think it's disgusting to disrupt somebody's ability to attend class or express their own opinions. I agree. But the response to that by saying that you can't express opinions or ask certain questions or express certain opinions in response is also disgusting. And this is the stuff of how countries end, right? Both sides lose their anchor into their principles and are willing to use force to suppress the other side.

That's the end of the United States of America as we know it. If we get to the point where the left tries to use force through bullhorns, protests, and violence to silence those they disagree with, which we're seeing some of in this country, that's a bad sign. But what really takes us down a dirty road is when the right then tries to use the police power. And that's what this is, the police power of the federal government to stifle them from expressing their opinions. That's not America.

And I think we need the principle to stand for. Bingo. Because this is the Republicans that are putting this out there. Because I agree with you, when this thing came out, was it two weeks ago that was sort of announced that it passed? I said, actually, I'm actually not a fan of this because it's sort of dictating what free speech should be.

Nobody who loves free speech in this country, and then they'll come up with all these other examples. Well, misinformation and disinformation and libel. No. If this ever comes up in discussion, even people who are watching this, let me just give you the dinner table sound bit. Cause you're gonna hear a lot of the mumbo jumbo, especially during COVID We heard about all the exceptions to free speech.

I'm gonna boil it down. The free speech clause of the first amendment means you get to express any opinion. You take one thing away from this time we spent together, let it be that any opinion is fair game. And I think that's what this country was founded. So here's the only question that I guess I agree that just like capitalism is a marketplace for goods and services, I believe that free speech is a marketplace for ideas and opinions, however wrong you might think they are.

Adam Sosnick
Totally with you on the same page. But where does hate speech or calls for genocide or Intifada or the river to the sea? Where do you draw the line of distinction, of that we remember in Congress, the hearings, is when Elise Stefanik grilled the presidents of your former alma mater, Harvard, I want to say, of calling for genocide. Well, it depends what kind of actions. Where does the hate speech and action end?

Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, here's my issue with those university presidents, right? Cause right now you're seeing people put pressure to say, well, you've been applying speech codes as it applies to black students and gay students. Why aren't you protecting jewish students the same way? That's been the direction of it. I actually look at it the other way.

Why have you been having these speech codes at all over the course of the last five years? The university should prize free speech. So I think the right criticism of those university presidents should be and should have been that you haven't really meant it when you say you're an institution committed to free speech. There's nothing at Harvard today. Harvard was the worst school for free speech.

Adam Sosnick
Can look at the stats. I mean, Yale's pretty bad, too. Harvard was the worst. I mean, it's all pretty bad, right? And so there are certain viewpoints about the climate, about race, about religion, about gender, that you absolutely cannot express on a Harvard or Yale.

Here you go, Harvard. Right? So that, I think, is the bigger issue. But I think that it would be a mistake to say, oh, really? Because we have been disrespecting free speech in all of those other contexts.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Let's also prevent it in this other context, too. I think that's the wrong direction. I think the right direction to go is to say all opinions are fair game to express them. Disruptions or physical intimidation. No, that's not an expression of an opinion.

That's out of bounds. No matter which side you're coming from. We got the right. We got 18 minutes, and I want to go through a couple different clips. Rob, can you pull this?

Patrick Bet-David
Pull up this clip. Nancy Pelosi, Oxford. She has an exchange and you just. This is like she got in trouble the moment she decided to go. Here, watch how this thing gets.

Go ahead and play it. Before COVID intelligence services colluded with big tech to have Trump suspended off Twitter. Yes, the same platform which hosted the Taliban and Ayatollah deaf to Israel. Khomeini. They thought the president crossed the line when he tweeted on Jancik.

F
Remain peaceful, no violence. Respect the law and our great men and women in blue. That's a quote. You may be thinking now that Trump is a populist, you are right. He didn't accept the 2020 elections, and he should have.

So should Hillary in 2016. So should Brussels and so should Westminster in 2016, and so too should congresswoman Pelosi. Instead of saying the 2016 election was, quote, hijacked. Quote, hijacked. It was.

Vincent Oshana
Look. Boom. Look at that. Pelosi in the room. Yeah, she's in the room.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Get out of here. Couldn't have paid her to do better.

Vincent Oshana
What does that even mean? What about the mainstream media? Let me read you some mainstream media headlines. The New Yorker, the day before the 2016 election. The case against democracy.

F
The Washington Post, the day after the election. The problem with our government is democracy. Such a joke. The LA Times, June 2017. The british election is a reminder of the perils of too much democracy.

Vox, June 2017. The two eminent political scientists say the problem with democracy is voters. New York Times, June 2017. I do this. The problem with participatory democracy is the participants.

Mainstream media elites, are part of a class who don't just disdain populism, they disdain the people. If the Democrats had put half their energy into delivering for the people, Trump wouldn't even have a chance in 2024. He shouldn't. He shouldn't have a chance. You've had power for four years.

From the fabricated Steele dossier to trying to take him off the ballot in both Maine and Colorado, the Democrats are the anti Democrat party. All we need now is the Republicans to come out as the pro monacists.

Ladies and gentlemen, populism is not a threat to democracy. But I'll tell you what is. Its elites ordering social media to censor political opponents. It's police shutting down dissenters, be it anti monarchists in this country or gender critical voices here, or last week in Brussels, the national conservative movement. I'll tell you what is a threat to democracy.

It's Brussels, DC, Westminster, the mainstream media, big tech, big pharma, corporate collusion, and the Davos cronies and Nancy Pelosi. The threat to democracy comes from those who write off ordinary people as deplorable. The threat to democracy comes from those who smear working people as racists. The threat to democracy comes from those who write off working people as populists. And I'll say one last thing.

This populist age can be brought to an end at the snap of a finger. All that needs to be done is for elites to start listening to, respect it, respecting, and God forbid, working for ordinary people. Thank you. You're here with Pelosi. Pelosi, you know, she wanted to kill him the whole time.

Vincent Oshana
You know, she was like, I hate. What do you think about this, Vivek? I like it. I like 95% of it. Which part do you not like?

Vivek Ramaswamy
Well, no, I got to say the part I like first. Then I'll get to the part I didn't like. It's a bow tie. The part. Well, it actually relates to the bow.

It relates to it, but the 95% that I love. First of all, smart guy, I think we need more of that over here. The threats to democracy are really posed by the people who profess the threats to democracy, which is orwellian. Right. You accuse the other side of the very thing, of the very sin that you're actively committing.

And he did a great job with documentation. Exactly. Pointing that out. I mean, democracy is not just measured by the number of ballots you cast every November. It's, do you feel free to express yourself?

Are you using technology companies or other tools to suppress speech in a country? So it's beautifully said. There's just one little tweak. I would suggest, not only to this gentleman, but there's a lot of people in the US who borrow some of this rhetoric is, I don't love the use of the word elites. Right.

And the part that was just kind of hilarious is to watch this man in like a bowtie, like a british accent in british hall, railing about, like, the elites. But I think that. I think. I'm not saying that to make fun of him. I think that we can actually do better because it almost cedes the ground of who is elite to the Nancy Pelosi.

There's nothing elite about Nancy Pelosi. I mean. I mean, there's nothing elite about Joe Biden. He doesn't have a functioning brain. I mean, it might be a form of elder abuse.

We could debate that, but that's not. There's nothing elite about that. And I think there are many kinds of elites. There are the bureaucratic managerial class. There are the creators in the country, people like yourself, people like Elon Musk, people like, you know, countless other entrepreneurs in this country who have created great things of great value that are educated, either self educated or at good universities or at no name universities.

Every one of those can be a member of an elite, too. So all I would say is he was hitting the nail on the head right until the very end, when he was close, but he veered a little bit to do this elite versus working class thing, whereas I don't see that divide at all. I see the rise of people, whether or not they've been successful, could be described as elite, could be described as working people. Everybody who says there's base principles of what it means to live in a free, democratic society, and so 95% of it, he was spotted. Tom, what do you think when you see this?

Vincent Oshana
Nigel? Nigel. Yeah, Nigel, they. I thought he did a marvelous job. He constructed his argument, and I was inspired by it.

Tom Ellsworth
And I just look forward to the day where you could see american students doing the same thing over here, rather than going out into the quad and protesting, because he was constructing the argument based on truth, accuracy, and facts. I can agree with you a little bit on using the word elite, but to me, that's small. I still give him a 98 on the paper, you know, and I thought it was. Why do you think how much of this you think is happening in our universities with kids? Not.

Patrick Bet-David
How is it not? Well, I think we need to introduce the study of a foreign language in this country called english people in this country, people have lost the ability to use language to advance their own ideas, and language carves the channel through which thought flows. I do think English should be the national language of the United States. I think that would be a good thing, actually, to have a grounding language. And I do think that part of what's happening right now is people who talk like that in high school.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I think things are changing right now. But if you rewind about ten years ago, at least, what happened was people who were exceptionally talented academically and ambitious academically were taught to hide their excellence. It wasn't cool to be academically successful or articulate or mathematically advanced. And so we had this culture, a little bit of kids like him being the kinds of kids who would be culturally labeled as gunners in class or whatever, when I think it's actually a great thing where if you got somebody who's gonna throw a football, you might as well get the guy who's gonna be able to throw the best pass. If you want a guy in an english class, you might as well want a guy who in high school is gonna be able to speak the language as well as he is.

I mean, they're in college now, and the same thing for somebody who's good at math. So that culture of excellence is part of what we lost for a while. No, I think the boomerang is coming back a little bit. Well, it depends on you. Define it.

Adam Sosnick
Elite. Nancy Pelosi, I think, is the first or second richest member of Congress. $250 million. There's an actual website. Stocks.

Yes, there's actual website that tracks our net worth. I think the only person that's richer than her is Rick Scott, who's the senator, former governor of Florida. But I got to give Nancy Pelosi at least a little credit. What? She's got more balls than Biden.

She's shown up. She knows when she walks into Oxford, she's going to get lambasted. When either less of an elder, less less intelligent elder character said, what's going on? When China said, straight up, Nancy, do not go to Taiwan, she went to Taiwan. We gave her praise on this podcast.

Straight up, Biden's not going to Oxford. Biden's not going to Taiwan. She, for all her Nancy nervous craziness, at least has more balls to show up to hostile territory. Someone like Biden, well, she's sitting there. Yeah, I disagree with that.

Tom Ellsworth
That was Paul Pelosi sitting right next to her. And if you take a look in that, he looked hammered. They thought it was a pub. That's what he walked. They thought it was a pub.

Vivek Ramaswamy
But let me make a point, which sort of joking and denigration of the other side notwithstanding, put that to one side. I think Republicans got to get better at this, actually. I mean, it's easy to criticize the other side. Self criticism is a little bit harder to engage in. So let's do the self criticism as a party, as a movement.

I don't think we go to the other side and actually engage in earnest, open debate where we confront the opposition. I try to do as much of that as I can. I think you do a great job of that. I think Trump does it. Trump does it great.

Trump does it well. I tried to do the best I could during the presidential campaign. I went to great length to do it. I think it's missing. I really don't think we see much of that in our movement.

Where are Republicans going to college campuses? Where are Republicans going to the inner city? I think it's an opportunity we have this year, though. I think this is, and that's one of the things I'm trying to do this year. And we'll try to do, not only as I did during the campaign, but for the rest of the year.

Show up where you're not supposed to. Actually, it's easy to show up where you're supposed to. It's easy to preach to your own choir, but show up where you're not supposed to. And I think that's how you actually save a country. Like Vivek, when you showed up and you started doing push ups with those college kids.

Adam Sosnick
I mean, what's really. Last story. Last story. Last story. Last story.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Rob, get me in shape. Yeah, Rob. What I love most is that was cool. And you jumping, allowing that jet ski guy to throw you in. You were learning how to do water skiing.

Patrick Bet-David
I was sick. Rob, can you pull up the CNN? Zakaria Biden should go back to Trump's immigration policies. This has to be so hard for him to be forced to say that. But go ahead and play this wonderful.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Clip running towards law enforcement, because they have figured out that all they have to do is say the magic words. I have a credible fear of persecution, and bingo, you're in the country legally. You get two court hearings. They could take seven years. Meanwhile, you slip into the shadows of the economy.

So the whole system is broken. And Biden needs to confront that and say, you know, we are going to have to reform the whole system. I would wish he'd do something much more like, say the old asylum system is dead. No one is coming in through that process. You have to apply from your home country, which was a Trump policy, which was, you know, a Trump.

And also the Mexico, you know, you have to be in Mexico to apply. I think that's all correct. So strategically, you think that if Biden would tack towards Trump policies, he would have actually better political chance. And it's also the right policy because the old asylum system is being gamed. Yeah.

By million. A few vague thoughts. Look, I think that once the truth becomes so obvious, it becomes undeniable. So if you can't beat em, join em. That's effectively what you're seeing here.

And I think they've tried to have their cake and eat it, too. It's no accident that the very people who are most opposed to the border wall or to strong border policies are also the ones who are most in favor of completely open voter id laws. Right. The lack of any voter id laws. So part of what they've been doing is for ten years or more importing voters and opposing mass deportations.

They're opposing the export of voters. I know you're not supposed to say it that way, but that's the truth. Import as many long run voters as you can. Minimize the exports. But now when that's coming back to bite them, even with just the mainstream citizen population of the country, now they're at least using their verbiage to say, okay, we imported all of those potential long run voters, but now just pretend like we actually intend to do the opposite.

That's what I see going on a little bit, and it's actually an interesting pattern. Patrick. Cause I wanted to comment on this. I actually haven't commented this elsewhere, but it's sort of weighed on me, is you see a lot of this stuff now where who was the comedian? Was it Jon Stewart?

Going on the rant about COVID's origin recently? Was that Jon Stewart? Colbert. Oh, it was Colbert. Okay.

Patrick Bet-David
No, it was Jon Stewart. It was Colbert. Potato, potato. You're right. Whatever.

Vivek Ramaswamy
But I think that you see that, and I see a lot of people cheering and saying, oh, yeah, he did it. Yes. How bold of him. When it comes to a lot of these admissions of failed policies and reversals of conspiracy theories, the timing is everything, right? If you already do it after the effect of that policy has been born and everyone's already seen it for how terrible it is, and the effect has already been negative, I don't think there's that much courage in then coming around and saying what you should have said three years ago.

And so I think we got to be careful where a lot of these folks in the center left, they're really trying to pack it in now with their anti woke commentary on the DEI agenda, on admitting bad COVID policies. You could think about even some of these immigration policy failure admissions that are now coming, and you'll have a lot of people who charitably say, hey, give him credit. You can maybe give him like an iota of credit, maybe, but it's the easiest thing to do. In some ways, it's even more devious where after the damage has already been done, you feign vulnerability and pretend to admit it, when in fact, all of the negative consequences have already been had. So timing is everything on some of these things, and we can't lose sight of that.

Adam Sosnick
Better late than never, though, right? I would say better late than never if it's earnest. And in Fareed Zakaria's case, it looked like it was earnest. Right? I think there's a cynical version of it where you actually would rather have it late and pretend like there was some kind of admission, but there's no consequence to you and you're just using it to build a fake credibility.

Vivek Ramaswamy
So better late than never. Yes, as long as it's sincere. And if it's sincere, fine. I'll give you points for that. Not a lot of points, but I'll give you some.

Patrick Bet-David
I love it. Okay, vivek, great to have you on. Every time we're here, we enjoy the conversations. So this week you said you're going to be at the trial with him tomorrow with the president. Yeah, I'm flying from here.

Vivek Ramaswamy
I started my morning in Ohio. I'm here now. I'll be in New York by tonight. Fantastic. How much sleep you get every night?

It's not one of my bigger hobbies. That's why your number one draft pick, 2028, in my opinion. Go follow the man's podcast, truth. The Ann Coulter podcast that he did is live on here. Go check it out.

Patrick Bet-David
Rob, make sure we put the link below in the chat and the comment section. Gang, take care. I think we're doing a podcast home team tomorrow. Lots of stories we didn't cover. And I'm about to announce the next live who it's going to be.

It's going to be explosive. And nobody here knows because I just locked it up during this podcast while I'm texting these guys. It's. They agreed it's going to be insane. I'll announce it tomorrow.

Britney Spears tickets will sell out within the second I announce answer. Take care, everybody. We'll see you guys tomorrow. God bless. Bye bye.

Bye bye. Thank you.

Vivek Ramaswamy
Thank you.

Vivek Ramaswamy: Trump Wildwood Rally & Ann Coulter's Controversial Comments | PBD Podcast | Ep. 410

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1: Introduction and Overview

2: Political Identity and Challenges

3: Nationalism and American Values

4: Media Influence and Public Perception

5: Closing Remarks

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