R4, HOLE 4: Claude Harmon III (Coach of Dustin Johnson, Pat Perez & Brooks Koepka) on Getting Your Handicap Down, Eliminating Mistakes, Golf Evolution

This episode focuses on effective strategies for amateur golfers to improve their game by managing expectations and learning from professional experiences.

1. Practice vs. Play: Harmon emphasizes that the way one practices golf does not directly translate to playing well; focus should be on strategic play rather than perfecting every shot.
2. Golf Course Management: Key advice includes playing the course rather than competing against opponents, aiming for consistency over perfection.
3. Mental Approach: Adjusting expectations and accepting less-than-perfect shots can significantly improve on-course decision-making and reduce overall scores.
4. Impact of LIV Golf: Discussion on how new golf tours are influencing the professional landscape and affecting traditional tours.
5. Evolution of the Sport: Harmon argues for the necessity of change and adaptation in golf, from both a player’s and an industry perspective.

1. Introduction

Hosts welcome Claude Harmon III and discuss the key themes of improving golf gameplay through strategic thinking and mental management. They also touch on the significance of major tournaments in shaping players' careers.
Stephen Malbon: "Absolutely crucial, the majors come at such a critical time."

2. Practicing vs. Playing

Harmon distinguishes between practicing and playing, suggesting that effective playing requires adapting to on-course realities rather than replicating practice range conditions.
Claude Harmon III: "Playing golf is far more important than practicing golf."

3. Evolution of Professional Golf

The conversation shifts to the impact of new golf leagues like LIV on traditional tours, the global golf landscape, and player dynamics within the sport.
Claude Harmon III: "It's a different tour... it's run differently than the PGA Tour."

4. Mental Game and Expectations

Harmon discusses the importance of managing expectations and the mental aspect of golf, advising players to focus on strategic, rather than technical, perfection.
Claude Harmon III: "The average 15 handicapper hits a bad tee shot and can't believe it; adjust your expectations."

5. Closing Thoughts

The episode wraps up with reflections on golf as a constantly evolving sport that should embrace change and fun, rather than rigid traditions.
Claude Harmon III: "Golf is supposed to be fun. It's a game."

1. Separate Practice from Play: Understand that success on the practice range doesn't guarantee success on the course; focus on how you manage the course during actual rounds.
2. Manage Expectations: Set realistic goals based on your skill level rather than aspiring to perfection on every shot.
3. Strategic Play Over Technical Perfection: Concentrate on making smart plays that cater to your strengths instead of trying to perfect every technical aspect.
4. Embrace Golf's Evolution: Be open to changes in the sport, whether they're new formats, tours, or equipment.
5. Have Fun: Remember that golf is a game meant to be enjoyed, not just a series of challenges and frustrations.

We are back and in Augusta, Georgia! We are Par 3 Podcast. Hosted by J.R. Smith & Stephen Malbon. Today Stephen is here with Claude Harmon III (Trainer of Dustin Johnson, Pat Perez & Brooks Koepka) and is here to discuss: Needing a major, the awkwardness of last year versus this year, those playing on LIV vs PGA Tour, catching up with old friends, working with Dustin Johnson, Pat Perez & Brooks Koepka, all of his pros deciding to go to LIV Golf, the difficulty of winning a tournament & trying to beat a golf course, Having a front row seat to some of the best golfers of this generation, fans of golf, Malbon Golf being able to work with The PGA Tour now, the evolution of golf & those who take golf too seriously, the expectations that the average golfers have, your golf game not getting better in round, how the average player can get their handicap down, playing the furthest tees forward possible, not compounding errors, how to go from shooting 80 to 75, stopping flag hunting & making the game simpler for your talent level, eliminating mistakes, the objective of the game fore everyone, playing golf in France, giving Stephen his flowers & the fashion of golf, the legacy of his Father & Grandfather & so much more. This episode is not to be missed!

People

Claude Harmon III, Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka

Companies

PGA Tour, LIV Golf

Content Warnings:

None

Claude Harmon III
I think it's also important for everyone listening to understand that there are two separate things that we do in golf. We practice golf and then we play golf. And the way that you practice golf doesn't necessarily have a massive effect on how you're gonna play, because playing the game of golf is very different. How many times have you striped it, just smoked it on the range? Does that mean you're gonna go out and shoot under par? Sometimes you hit a grade on the range. You shoot 75, and you drive home and you're like, dude, I hit it. I can't hit it any better than I hit it on the range today. And I played terrible. And then there's days where the warmup isn't necessarily great, and you go out and you shoot one under, and you're like, this game is so crazy, right? I didn't really hit it great on the range, and I went up. So playing golf is far more important than practicing golf.

Stephen Malbon
Hello, everybody. Per usual, we would like to give a big, warm welcome to one of our favorite sponsors on earth, Popgolf, for bringing us peach ice cream in Augusta, Georgia. Thank you for all you do.

Part three podcast press.

Claude Harmon III
Fucking go.

Stephen.

Stephen Malbon
Marvin.

Oh, my goodness. Let's get right into it. Put us down for the verde dog.

Somebody give me your fucking putter.

Poured the putty.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the world famous par three podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Maubin, Jr. Smith is on a plane heading to meet us in Augusta, and we are here with the one and only Mister Claude Harmon.

Claude Harmon III
That is some intro.

Stephen Malbon
Junior says it's the mister Rogers.

Claude Harmon III
That is some intro.

Stephen Malbon
I've done this before a few times.

How are you, man?

Claude Harmon III
I'm good. It's, um, you know, it's the first major of the year, Augusta. It's always a fun week, and I think. I think golf needs a major. You know, I think with all the shit going on, we desperately need a major.

Stephen Malbon
Absolutely.

Claude Harmon III
I mean, I think it couldn't come at a better time.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah. I remember being here last year and seeing, like, the tension and the weirdness and, like, everyone just kind of, like, hadn't seen each other for a while. It was like.

It was like no one really knew what to do or something.

Claude Harmon III
Summer camp.

Stephen Malbon
Summer camp. Yeah. And now today, everyone was, like, normal.

Claude Harmon III
And then watching all those clowns at the Golf channel last year go, oh, so these guys don't hate each other. I mean, yeah, why would they?

Stephen Malbon
Today Jason played with Cameron Smith, Adam Scott, and Min Wu Li. And it was like.

Claude Harmon III
And Brooks played with Xander and Patrick Cantlay. I mean, yeah, it's been great. I mean, listen, unfortunately, you know, the way things are in professional golf, there are guys playing on live that used to play on the PGA Tour. And, you know, there are a lot of people, you know, like Joe Skaverin, who used to caddy for Ricky Fowler, who now caddies for Ludwig Aberg. I mean, Scavi is one of my favorite people. I mean, we sat and we talked for, you know, 20 minutes this morning. It was great to see him. It's been great to see a bunch of the, you know, the caddies and a bunch of the players that you haven't seen before and, yeah, I mean, it's crazy times, but, yeah, I think we need a major. Yeah.

Stephen Malbon
And I feel like everyone, like, misses each other.

Claude Harmon III
I think we do. I mean, listen, I mean, one of the things about.

I mean, all of my guys went to live. That wasn't my choice. They all went there and I'm. I'm a hired gun, right? I'm like a caddy. Wherever the player goes, I go. And, you know, a lot of the guys that went to live, certainly the guys that I worked for, you know, DJ and Brooks, they were on the PJ tour for over a decade.

So, yeah, I mean, certainly you form friendships and you form, you know, relationships with people. And, you know, I miss a lot of the guys. I mean, I think that's.

I mean, that's been, one of the things that's been interesting is there you don't realize how much you're in an ecosystem until you're out of it.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah.

Claude Harmon III
And then when you're out of it, you're like, wow, I mean, I'm in a different. And, you know, and for everybody that went to live, the ecosystem is vastly, vastly different.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah.

Claude Harmon III
And, you know, that that doesn't have to be good. That doesn't have to be bad. It's just different.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah. And it's different for the coaches, the caddies, the different.

Claude Harmon III
For every chance, everyone, everybody, it's a different.

It's a different tour. And, you know, it's run differently than, you know, the PJ tour. And, you know, I don't have a problem with that.

Stephen Malbon
And you guys are coming. And the live tour was just in Miami.

Claude Harmon III
No, we were just in Miami last week, and Sergio played well. Sergio played good. Man, Sergio, this narrative that, I mean, there is a narrative out there that. And it's being again this week, you know, guys saying Jon Rahm, you know, isn't competitive. I mean, Jon Rahm won a major last year on the PGA Tour, and everybody thought he was going to come to live and just clean up. And I think it just shows you that it's hard to win golf tournaments and this narrative that there's a smaller field and all of this stuff. I mean, Steve, I've been to every live event, and I work with Brooks, DJ and Pat Perez, and I've been on tour basically my entire life. Right. My dad coached Tiger woods. He coached Greg Norton. I've had a ringside seat for the greatest players of the modern generation.

Over the last three years, I've seen DJ play some of the best golf he's played. I've seen Brooks play some of the best golf he's played. And the guys that I've seen, and the golf that I've gotten to see every single day, week in, week out on live, is the same golf that I saw on the PGA Tour. Same golf. And this narrative that, well, you know, the fields are bad.

You're not playing against the opponents. You're playing against the golf course. You know, all we tell professional golfers when they get hunt is, dude, just play the. Just play the golf course. Don't worry about if you're paired with Tiger, if you're paired with a superstore, don't get wrapped up into what they're doing. Just play the golf course because you're trying to beat the golf course, not the guy you're playing with. So this narrative that, okay, the field's small. I mean, this is the smallest field of the majors. I mean, there's 90 guys winning this week. So this narrative that if it's a limited field and this is an invite only tournament, so the knock against Liv is. It's invite, limited field.

And I just. None of. None of this makes any sense to me, man. I mean, it's like the world that.

Stephen Malbon
We live in, though. There's so much stuff that just makes zero sense. And when you use common sense, it's like, it's not that different.

Claude Harmon III
No. And what I have been saying to everybody over the last three years is, you don't have to choose between the PGA Tour. And there are people on the PGA tour. And in my opinion, Jay Monahan was the one that said, no, no, you have to choose. You have to choose between Liv or the PJ Tour. So he tried to make the players do that, and so there became this narrative that the fans had to do that. The fans had to choose. If you like professional golf, you watch professional golf, wherever you choose to watch it. The PGA Tour, DP World, Asia Live Champs Tour, LPGA Tour, all of it. You can watch it wherever you want. And there isn't a litmus test that if you're watching live, you don't have to like the PGA Tour.

I just never got why they wanted you to choose.

Stephen Malbon
It's like the politics, and it's the same as the politics here.

Claude Harmon III
There's no middle ground anymore.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, there's zero middle ground.

Either you hate this or you love this. And if you use common sense and practical thinking and you say, I look at the field at live and look at it, and then I go to Vegas, and it's like I see people not going to it because they're. They picked, oh, I love the PGA Tour, and I'm not going to go watch DJ Brooks, Sergio, Phil. Like, it's like, what the hell? If you like golf, go watch them.

Claude Harmon III
But I'm fine with that if that's what you want to do, right? If you don't want to go watch these guys because they went to live and all that, that's fine. But you're doing that for your own reasons. Right? That's your narrative. Right? And then the other thing, Steve, that I think is crazy. You're a part of golf, right? Five years ago, did you ever hear anybody talk about the product of professional golf? Did you ever hear anybody say, we need to improve the product?

Stephen Malbon
No.

Claude Harmon III
What is the product? How can we make the product better? The product was the product. It was the PGA Tour, DP World Asia. That was the product.

And nobody ever talked about improving the product. How do we make the product better for the fans? Nobody ever talked about the fan experience. Five years ago, it was, these are the tournaments, these are the players playing in it. And whether you like it or you don't like it, this is it.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah.

Claude Harmon III
And now all anyone talked. It's funny. Live comes on board their competition to the PJ Tour. Now all anybody talks about is the product. Well, where were you guys five years ago talking about the product?

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, but it took Liv. It took rocking the boat a bit. It took people to have to look and look at it from the different side and say, like, you know, even like with mob and golf, like, I'm selling now at a bunch of different PGA merch things, right?

Five years ago, I couldn't. I won it. They wanted. There wasn't a possibility. So just with Liv doing what they're doing, it is softened it up where it's like, hey, we need to think differently.

Claude Harmon III
Yeah. So if you look at your brand, like you said five years ago, it was niche, it was cool kids and stuff like that. And now you're in.

You're selling to the PGA Tour, and I honestly think if a product like Live doesn't come around, I want to be right now. Do you think you would be?

Stephen Malbon
No, I don't. No. Because then all of a sudden, they started watching. Oh, well, liv's doing this, and Liv's doing this, and it's on all of them, from, like, cash prizes to certain numbered fields to how we look at merchandise, to how we work with influencers, to how do we do the pro ams, how do we go global? Like, all of the things that they're doing, someone on the other side is like, well, that looks like it's working. We might wanna. Yeah, like, we might wanna look at that.

Claude Harmon III
I mean, I noticed since I've been off the PGA Tour that in the last three years there, it's, as an outsider who's looking in now, it looks like there has been a complete attempt to try and rebrand the PGA Tour.

It's cool factor, right? The stuff they're doing. And I think that is a good thing.

Stephen Malbon
Thank God they're thinking like that.

Claude Harmon III
You're in the fashion world. You're in the business world, right? Competition is good, and competition creates pivots. Like, you have to pivot. You go, okay, I didn't have any competition now, okay, now I have to try and figure out where I'm going. I think the problem is the PJ Tour is a giant oil tanker, and it's hard to slow it down and get it to maneuver, right? And these big, massive organ. You know, that. I mean, when you were starting your clothing company, when you're trying to work and take on, you know, Adidas and, you know, Callaway buying Travis Matthew and Nike and stuff, you have to do things differently than they do.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, 100%.

Claude Harmon III
You can't market the way Nike golf markets or the way these big companies. You have to pivot and go, okay, we have to. We have to be lean. We have to be maneuverable. We have to be fast. We have to try to do cool stuff.

Stephen Malbon
And you can try to do it, because you're allowed to try. You can fail. It's okay. I can fail. They can't. They put themselves in a certain position where it's like, if we try something new and weird and it doesn't work, we're gonna look. People are gonna look at us funny where me it's like, I have no other option but to try shit.

Claude Harmon III
You have to.

Stephen Malbon
There's no other choice. And like you said, the oil tankers, like, big boats take slow turns and little speed boats are just flying by, you know, and that's it.

Claude Harmon III
They get. And you can just fill them with just gas and just go, yeah.

Stephen Malbon
And you can just make decisions. I can do things like, you know, like, I would say with that photo shoot with Mark, it's like, I'm doing full production. You know, Jason Day, we do photo shoots with Jason Day, video tv commercials with Jason day. We shoot for 45 minutes. Two people, a stylist and a videographer.

Claude Harmon III
How long did that used to take? Well, it would take two eight hour days, and you'd have to 70 people.

Stephen Malbon
And it would be millions of dollars of budgets to do a same exact 32nd tv spot, you know, and so it's like, it takes what we're doing to make other people do it. It took what Liv's doing to make other people do it. And it's the best thing for golfers. It's the best thing for the fans, it's the best thing for the players. You know, when I'm watching the purses go up, and they used to find x percentage of the money and give it for prizes, and that x got a zero put on the back of it, and it got substantially more money was found. That's a good thing.

Claude Harmon III
Well, we've talked about this.

I've always been fascinated that there is a segment of the gulf population that want gulf to be the only thing on the planet earth that doesn't change and doesn't evolve. There is this kind of constant, in my opinion, this Truman show. Like, well, it's gotta be like it was back then. And I have said this for a long time. I don't wanna be a part of a sport that is constantly looking backward. You know, Frank Nabolo, when he used to do live from, he would say, you know, when they do live from, for many of the majors, he would say every single night, we would spend sometimes half of our airtime talking about the past, talking about what players did at this golf course in the forties and the fifties and the sixties and stuff like that. That doesn't happen. You watch the Super bowl, they might make an homage, but they're not spending the majority of the time talking about in the forties in the sixties what the Super bowl was like when the Chiefs met this team. You're talking about what's going on today and now always been fascinated that there is this want for golf to not evolve, to not change. You know, I think the discovery, you know, properties have done a huge, have been a big part of no dress code music.

Have fun, right? Enjoy your time on the golf course. I remember talking to Michael Jordan about that. MJ, he was a member at the Floridian before he built the grove. And you know how MJ plays. He plays with every. There's eight, nine guys, everybody's got their own card, everybody's got their own music. And I remember him telling me, you know, he was like, listen, I know not this isn't the way everybody likes to play golf, but it's the way I like to play golf. And I want to have fun. When I'm playing golf, he's like, I grinded my ass off in the NBA for x amount of years. He's like, golf, for me is fun. I want it to be fun. And I think that, you know, golf is supposed to be fun. It's supposed. It's a game, right? And I just, I think there are a lot of people that take golf way too seriously. I don't see a lot of people having fun when they play, and it should be fun.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, it's little things. Like I was saying, like earlier, it's like, just hitting shots is really fun. Keeping score is not fun. Grinding. And, you know, whether if I shoot 70, I don't feel any different. That night at dinner, if I shoot 80, I don't feel differently. I'm okay. If I shoot 70, I'm okay. If I shoot 80, it doesn't change anything. And whether I shoot 80 or I shoot 70, I every single time say, well, that could have been three or four shots lower. So now I'm like, you know, I was telling something the other day. It's like, I hit a perfect drive. I hit a great four iron. I have a twelve foot putt. I don't read the putt properly. I miss the putt, and I'm like, you're a loser. You just missed the easy birdie putt. It's like, well, what about the great drive I hit? What about the four iron that I hit? Twelve foot in the wind. All that's out the window. Because it's like, now it's not fun. I'm a loser, I miss the birdie putt. And you're just constantly beating yourself up.

Claude Harmon III
Well, the expectations I think the average golfer has on their golf is so far from reality, and I think a lot of that comes from television.

Stephen Malbon
Right.

Claude Harmon III
We watch so much golf on television and they're really by the weekend where I think, I mean, yes, there are die hards that watch Thursday, Friday, right? But if you're a golfer, you're probably watching Saturday, Sunday, they're only showing you the best players, five people, and they're only going to show you someone else if they hoop one from 50 or hole one from the bunker, or they're going to show you royal Rory McElroy rinsing one in the, in the water and he's going to make double. Right? So they're going to show you the players that aren't in contention either hit a miraculous shot or horrible hit a horrible shot. But then you're just watching the guys that are playing the best that week hit it to 10ft and then you go out and you think, oh, well, I should do that, right? We're watching the best players in the world. And I think if everyone listening with their own game could just manage their expectations better and realize that if you're a 15 to 25 handicap, hitting a green is a good shot anywhere, hitting a fairway is a good shot based off of your skillset, based off of what you have in the toolbox. But 15 handicappers expect to go out and shoot 80.

My grandfather, my dad had a really bad temper when he played, and he always says that when he was a junior, he was a club breaker. And he always says it really held him back for the couple of years that he played on the PGA Tour, when he played the tour. And he said, his grandfather, my grandfather won the Masters in 1948, right? And my dad said when he was young and he would get mad at a bad shot, he would say, you act like you were good, you were never any good. Why are you getting so mad? He's like, I won the Masters and I don't get mad. He's like, you've never, as a junior, he's like, you never really won anything. And you get so mad, you get so down on yourself. And I see so many players that I teach, whether they're competitive golfers or whether they're just regular recreational golfers, that they're so hard on themselves and they expect every shot to be perfect. And I get asked all the time, what is the difference between regular golfers and tour players? And one of the differences, tour players know they're going to make bad swings, they know they're going to accept it, but they also accept that they're going to hit a bad shot.

Stephen Malbon
Totally.

Claude Harmon III
The average 15 handicapper hits a bad tee shot. And they're like, I can't believe I'm doing that. I'm like, what on the range led you to believe that it was going to be a stripe show this week?

Stephen Malbon
And people get angry. And I can't believe this. Why am I slicing? Why am I slicing? I'm like, you're casting at the top, right? How do you think it's not gonna slice? And then they get angry.

Claude Harmon III
I said this on my podcast. I did one on just talking about shots. For the majority of people listening to this podcast, your golf swing. Once you start a 18 hole or a nine hole round of golf, more than likely your golf swing is not going to get better on the golf course. So you have what you have. You brought what you brought that day. And if everyone would just say, okay, this is what I do, right? I tend to slice the golf ball or tend to hit the golf ball with a fade or a hook or whatever. So rather than the slicer spins all 18 holes, trying to hit it straight up for a draw.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah. Trying to hit it straight that they don't hit. Yeah. So just hit the cut.

Claude Harmon III
So aim for that. Allow for your miss every par four that you're going to play.

If you're not a scratch golfer, a single digit handicapper, the majority of the par fours you probably can't get to in two. So the score doesn't mean you have to play the hole a certain way. The score, part three, par four, par five. And I say this to all the juniors that we work with. If you look at a scorecard, think about how small the box is for the score. There's no narrative on how you can make a five by.

I remember right before the US opened in 2000, when Tiger shot a zillion under. He was playing a.

He's playing at Rioseco with Adam Scott. Scotty was still playing on European Tour, and Scotty was a stud, right? I mean, he was a superstar. And Tiger said, I'm gonna see what the kids got today. And he said, hey, let's play for some money. We're gonna play, you know, get a game. And Rioseko, the 9th hole is this crazy long par five, and it's blowing a ton. And Tiger hits one so far offline into the desert, right? Reteez hits driver off the deck, runs it up there. I mean, we're talking like, the hole's almost 600 yards. Okay. It's a little downhill, and we're a little bit at altitude, but he hits one sideways out of bounds off the tee. Smokes driver and then just hammers driver off the deck and holes a 30 footer par.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, right.

Claude Harmon III
Didn't look anything special.

But my point is, so if your driver isn't great, maybe hit an iron off the tee, get the ball in play, and if it's a par four, say, listen, I'm going to hit an iron, then I'm going to hit another iron, then I'm going to hit a wedge and I'm going to try and get out of here with a par, but I'm not going to make.

Stephen Malbon
I'll take a bogey. I'll take a bogey better than a triple.

Claude Harmon III
And everyone listening to this podcast, if for the next 365 days you made more bogeys, your handicap would plummet. Not more birdies, not more eagles, just make more bogeys. If you're a 15 to 25 handicapper, the way your handicap is going to go down is to make more bogeys and just eliminate making the big numbers. But you make a double or a triple and you're not going to make six birdies to recover from that.

Roy McElroy goes out and shoots 39 or 40 on the front.

He is 100% looking to shoot 28 or 29 on the back and he has the ability and the firepower to do that. The rest of us just don't do that. So manage your expectations. Get the ball in play. If you get it in trouble, get out in under one stroke, get it back into the fairway. If you have to pitch out backwards diagonally.

Richard Bland, who plays on Livy, was practicing at my dad's place in Florida, at the Floridian, which I run, and he was there for like a month. And we've got a bunch of juniors. And I had him talk to the juniors and he said something that I've been saying a lot, and he said, listen, if you hid it in the trees, if you hit it off the tee or you get into trouble and you're going to try and hit kind of the hero, risk reward, miraculous shot, say, okay, if I had ten balls from this lie, and I'm going to attempt this shot through the trees, could I get five of them on the green? So could I get half from this lie on the green? And if the answer is no, then chip out, then get the ball back in play. Take your and don't compound a bad shot or a bad swing by making just a horrendous mental decision. And you know, golf really is a simple game that confuses intelligent and smart people.

C
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Claude Harmon III
I think it's also important for everyone listening to understand that there are two separate things that we do in golf. We practice golf and then we play golf. And the way that you practice golf doesn't necessarily have a massive effect on how you're going to play, because playing the game of golf is very different. How many times have you striped it? Just smoked it on the range. Does that mean you're gonna go out and shoot under par? Sometimes you hit it great on the range. You shoot 75 and you drive home and you're like, dude, I hit it. I can't hit it any better than I hit it on the range today and I played terrible. And then there's days where the warm up isn't necessarily great and you go out and you shoot one under and you're like, this game is so crazy, right? I didn't really hit it great on the range and I went out playing.

Playing golf is far more important than practicing golf. Yeah, having a good golf swing means that it's going to be easier, maybe, but you can have a really good listen. The players that I work with and the players that I've worked with over my career, Dustin Johnson, Brooks Koepka, Adam Scott, Darren Clark. Do you think the warmups are bad and they don't go shoot 66 every time with a Ferrari, with the fastest car.

Brooks and DJ have some of the. If this is Formula one, they have some of the fat they have some of the best cars in Formula one, and they're really good drivers, but that doesn't equate to them shooting low scores all the time. So use the golf course. It's something I talk about on my podcast all the time. Use the golf course to tell you what you need to work on when you practice.

But what everybody does is just go to the driving range to get exercise. Yeah, like we on tour were like, I use today as an example, like Brooks, after the round today, hit balls. This morning he maybe hit ten drivers.

This afternoon we maybe hit ten. Why? Because Brooks is a good driver of the golf ball. He does. We're working on, yeah, wedges, distance control.

Right. We're grinding short game this week we're working on putting. He's a good driver to golf ball.

My point behind that is very few golfers are good at everything.

And I think most of the average golfers think that these guys are great at everything.

They're not. Tiger woods was great at everything. Greg Norman was great at even Tiger.

Stephen Malbon
I heard the other, he said he won 80 something times. And he said, how many times did you have your A game? And he said, three.

Like three out of 85. He felt he was firing.

Claude Harmon III
There are a lot. I mean, Rory McElroy has everything. Scotty Scheffler, everybody's talking about his putting and stuff like that, but he's pretty much the complete article, right? And those guys still have weeks, days where they struggle and they have everything they couldn't. It's an embarrassment of riches from a talent standpoint for Rory McElroy. And he doesn't win every time he plays, because there is so much more to golf than your technique and your golf swing. But I think all of us as golfers were kind of predisposed to think, okay, if I hit a bad shot, it's gotta be my technique.

Stephen Malbon
Gotta go to the.

Claude Harmon III
Now, if you. If you top it, then you lay the sod over it. If you shank one, that is your technique. But if you hit one and it doesn't carry far enough, and it hits.

Stephen Malbon
The lip of a bunker, and you.

Claude Harmon III
Make a bogey, you chip one and you go to chip it and it gets in the air and you just carry it too far, that has nothing to do with it.

Stephen Malbon
And then it catches a hill and rolls down a hill.

Claude Harmon III
Nothing to do with your technique. That has 100% due to your execution. So you just need to execute better.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, absolutely.

C
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Stephen Malbon
You know, golf is one of those. Like, it's the only sport I've ever done where I can, I can walk up on the range and hold the club in my hand and immediately know if I have it or if I am fucked basically.

Claude Harmon III
Immediately.

Stephen Malbon
And I hit one shot and it's like, if it's the bad guy, it's like, not today. Not today. But you can't really do anything until the next day. Like when you know your guys, when they walk up, some days they can look at you and be like, oh, this is gonna be fun.

Claude Harmon III
But that's where the average golfer, the non competitive golfer, needs to say, okay, maybe I don't have it today, right? And maybe I don't have it, period. But I still love playing and I still wanna go out. So figure out a shot that is repeatable. If it's. You can play golf with any shot. A 40 yard slice. Yeah, right. You find a golf course that maybe doesn't have a lot of trees, go on a day where it's not super, super windy, and say, listen, the only shot I have is a 40 yard slice. But there's plenty of room. There's plenty of room out here for me to play my 40 yard slice.

Play by, I mean play by the appropriate tees.

You should not be playing.

Golf is hard enough.

Go to the front team.

Do not go if you're a higher handicap. Go as far forward as you can.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, I was telling you, I've been playing. My son's twelve. My wife's new. They play the Ford Tees. So I go play with them and.

Claude Harmon III
Ron, how about how much more fun it is? It's the best.

Stephen Malbon
So, Ron, my coach, he's like, okay, but you have to hit driver every hole, right? You can't go up and hit seven iron. Seven iron. Like hit driver or hit play the.

Claude Harmon III
Four D's or learn how to hit a little. It's a great way for everyone listening to say, okay, go way forward and say, okay, I'm gonna take driver here. And rather than try and kill the driver and try and hit it, hit a little smooth. Let me just smooth it 70%. Just get it in play and then say, okay, I'm. Now, if I'm in play, off the tee, whatever the yardage is, I'm not even going to try and aim at the flag. I'm just going to try and dump this to the middle of the green and get out of here with a par. At worst, I make a bogey and then I just tread water, get a bunch of pars together.

Stephen Malbon
Easy pars, easy parts. Yeah, yeah, right?

Claude Harmon III
Yeah, you're going to have those and.

Stephen Malbon
You make a birdie or two.

Claude Harmon III
And, yeah, Michael, if you don't make a birdie or two, if you're a player that says, listen, I don't make boat birdies, okay, your goal should be to say, okay, start with the biggest number you make. I always say to golfers at the end of every round, take how many three putts you had. Add those up. So let's say you shoot 80 and you say, okay, I had three three putts and I made two doubles. Okay, so the three, three putts, you turn those into two putts. That's three shots. And you turn the two doubles just into bogeys. That's five shots. So we go from shooting 80 to 75. 75 looks a hell of. I didn't make one more birdie, I didn't make one more eagle. All I did was just take the doubles and make them into bogeys.

And you can look at your scores. The average 20 handicapper, the guy that's trying to break 190 for the first time, make more bogeys, play bogey golf, and your handicap is just going to. You're going to. If you're a hundred shooter and you can start making more bogeys, you are going to break 100 for the first time.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, absolutely.

Claude Harmon III
If you're trying to break 90 for the first time, just take the quad that you're making, turn it into a triple. Take the triple you're making. Just turn it into a double. Take the double. You're making. Just turn it into a bogey, and your scores are going to plummet. You're going to go from shooting 110 to, like, you know what? I shot 100 today.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah, big difference.

Claude Harmon III
By just eliminating some mistakes, I kept the ball in play. I didn't make a ton of birdies today. I didn't play super fancy, but I didn't make a nine today. I didn't make an eight today. Yeah, I still make.

My goal is just to start trying to eliminate the big numbers. And by course management and course strategy, you can eliminate making big numbers.

Stephen Malbon
Watching out here on tour this year with Jason, so it's the first time I really got to spend as much time as I have inside the ropes, watching them practice, watching them play, the whole thing. But, you know, like, at the Amex in Palm Springs, right, there's, like, neighborhood on the left and trees and another fairway on the right. So, like, he's not going to miss left, right. Because if you miss left, it's big score. If you miss right, he can still make power birdie, 100%, can hit it over the trees or whatever. So, like, I'm learning that, like, there's one side of a green you can miss to still make par, and the other side, you're going to have a really hard par, probably double.

Claude Harmon III
One of the things that we do with our juniors late in the afternoon. Sometimes we go out in nine holes, and I'll have one of the guys go out and take the flags out so there's no flags. So they have no idea where the pin is. So what are you gonna do if you don't know where the pin is? If you don't, I mean, are you gonna try and hit it front left?

Let me feather this seven iron ear. Let me cut it to the front part of the green. No, you just dump it in anywhere on the green.

Stephen Malbon
Anywhere?

Claude Harmon III
Yeah, if you are a. If you are a over 15 handicap, I mean, I'm going to go even so much as if you're over a ten handicap. Stop aiming at pins.

Stop going flag hunting. Rory McElroy goes flag hunting. Yeah, right.

Stephen Malbon
Because he knows he can get himself.

Claude Harmon III
Out of trouble if he wants to. Fucking Roy McElroy.

Roy McElroy goes flag hunting. Scotty Scheffler goes flag hunting. There are accessible pins for them.

If the golf course isn't like a major Augusta national and stuff, they are going to try and take advantage of the easy holes, go flag hunting. The rest of it's like going flag hunting for everyone. Listening is the equivalent of everybody listening that doesn't play basketball.

Playing basketball. And as soon as you get over half court, just pulling up like Steph Curry, fire it, firing it. Every time they give it to you, you're just firing it. But it's like those memes where the guy's like, this is what my golf game looks like. And he's just got the perfect form for the basketball, and he never even hits the rim.

Stephen Malbon
Maybe halfway there.

Claude Harmon III
But that's what people are doing. So make this very difficult. The game is difficult, right already.

Stephen Malbon
Very.

Claude Harmon III
Try and make it as simple and as easy as possible for what your talent level is. Go to the range, try and make your golf swing better. But here's the other thing. Roy McElroy and Scotty Scheffler. I mean, Roy McElroy just flew out to see my dad because he's trying to make his golf swing better.

That everybody that is playing competitive golf, Nelly Corda, is trying to make her golf swing better. She's won four tournaments in a row on the lcd.

Stephen Malbon
She's working right now on her, she.

Claude Harmon III
Is grinding on her.

My point is, she's trying to make her technique better, and she just won four times. Roy McElroy is trying to make his technique better. Guy flies around on his own private jet. So that quest for your technique to improve is never going to end, and it doesn't end for the greatest players in the game. But the greatest players in the game are trying to play the game better than the other players.

Brooks knows that he has a skillset, toolbox, DJ. The guys I work with, they know they have basically the same type of car that Rory McElroy and Scotty Scheffler has. It's about eliminating mistakes. It's about eliminating a double bogey. I mean, one of the mantras for all of the majors that I've ever worked with, Brooks has five majors. Our mantra has always been no double bogeys. Bogeys are fine.

Bogeys are fine.

Stephen Malbon
Birdies make bogeys up.

Claude Harmon III
Has said to a player, once he was trying to play, he was going to Q School, dream chaser, played college golf. He's playing mini tours, he's trying to go to Q School. He was going to european Q school, first stage.

And Brooks was talking about it was playing. He was like, I will give up a birdie to make a bogey and not make double.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah.

Claude Harmon III
So a guy that's got five majors, one of the best players in the world, one of the best players in the last decade, is saying to a kid, he's like, I will give up a birdie to save, make and bogey. That's why when you see some guys with a ten foot birdie putt late in the day and the reaction when it goes in isn't as good as the ten foot bogey putt to keep the round going, and they give it the fist pump because they know the double takes them from second place to tied for 20th, immediately you plummet down the leaderboard and just play smarter.

Play the game smarter. And always remember, it's a game. They tell you what the rules are. They give you a scorecard, and they say, okay, today the golf course is 72 is the par, and there are this many par threes on the course today. Sometimes you'll play a golf course where there's five par threes. Sometimes you'll play a golf course where there's two par fours. I mean, two par fives. Sometimes there's three. Sometimes there's four. But they tell you what the rules of the game are, and they say, okay, you can play the game any way you want to within these rules. It's not this.

Golf is not gymnastics, figure skating, and dressage and horse jumping, where they've got a defined category of skills that you have to perform in your routine.

Why do you think in figure skating you've got girls trying to throw five quadruple axels into a Olympic performance? Because they're gonna test off the charts on all the easy stuff they're going to get. And how many times do you see a gymnast do the floor exercise? And they say, listen, her interpretation, her theatrics, her emotion isn't there. She's just.

She can do the jumps. And then you see a girl that's like. She's like a ballet dancer. She's like an opera singer. She just doesn't have the firepower that some of these other girls in this competition have. So she's got to try and win it by song. There are no judges in golf. If there were Adam Scott, Nelly Corda, the people with the beautiful golf swings, they would win every week. The judges would go nine, eight. Adam Scott would make a driver's swing, and if it went in the fairway, they'd be judging. Imagine if they judged him on how the golf swing looked and if it hit the fairway. We don't do that in golf. But everybody is worried about the way their golf swing looks, their technique. And, yes, if you're trying to break 100 for the first time, learning how not to top it is smart is smart.

Taking lessons is smart. But regardless of where you are on the golf spectrum of technique and talent, the game is the game. It's the game. If the game is the same for Rory McElroy as it is for the hundred handicapper, the rules of the game are the same. The objective of the game is the same. Right.

And you could play the same course that Rory's playing from the same tees.

There isn't another sport on this planet that you can do that in. Like, name me, a 35 year old that's playing competitive football with a full team on offense, a full team on defense, down markers, officials.

That never happened. And you could even.

Stephen Malbon
Even, like, you know, the old guys at my course at the preserve. Like, there's this old guy, Bob. He hits a low draw down the middle. Everything looks like shit. Hits the next one, either on the green, the fringe, or you add it.

Claude Harmon III
Up and you go even pull over. Yeah.

Stephen Malbon
And he beats me all the time, and I'm doing this, that, and the other everybody lifting out birdie pods. And it's like everyone has that guy.

Claude Harmon III
At their club that is a multiple club champion who doesn't necessarily hit it. Miles, I would venture to say a lot of the club champions at clubs around the country, they're not guys that they're carrying at 315 in the year. They play really boring golf. They shoot 72 a lot. They shoot one under a lot.

Stephen Malbon
Yeah. And they don't shoot eight over, they don't shoot 90.

Claude Harmon III
Yeah.

Stephen Malbon
They don't have doubles. They don't have, like, the guy doesn't give himself opportunities for doubles.

Claude Harmon III
And you play against him, you're like, dude, this guy just hits a little slap cut. He hits a little slap draw. He doesn't even make a big backswing. And it drives you crazy. You're like, dude, this guy never misses a fairway. I'm hitting it 30 past him, 40 past him. Guy beat me in the club championship this year. He beat me there last year. And I'm sitting there going, I've got the Scotty Cameron with my initials on it. This guy's using old equipment. I've got all the cool shit. I've got all the stuff from the tour van, and this guy wins everything. He plays in because he. But it's like, the guy, that guy is. I played tennis in high school. It's the guy that just pushes the ball back, and you've got the big groundwork.

Stephen Malbon
Just wait for you to make a mistake.

Claude Harmon III
You're just pushing it back, and it's not even deep. And you're going for big forehands and it's just unforced error after unfortunate. In tennis, they have a stat called unforced errors. And at the end of every match, they're looking at how Novak Djokovic, what's the percentage of winners to unforced errors? If he's got a ton of unforced errors? He can't out. He can't out hit. He can't get enough winners to do the unforced packet to cover it up. Cover it up. So start thinking about when you're driving home at night after you've played around to golf. Okay, what were the unforced errors?

What were my unforced errors? The unforced errors are hitting it out of bounds, lost ball, hitting it in the water.

Right.

Double chips. Right. You missed the green, you go to chip it. You don't get on the green, you have to chip it again. That's an unforced error.

Three putts. Those are unforced errors. So go back and go. Okay.

All the penalty shots I had today, let me add how detrimental that was up to my score. And if I can just stop double chipping and just the first chip, get it on the green, even if it's to 30ft, you can hold a 30 footer. When's the last time you hold the bunker shot? Yeah, like if you're, if you're a 20 handicapper, when's the last time you chipped in? When's the last time you hold the bunker shot? That happens every single day for the best players in the world that you watch on tv. Right? So again, stop the unforced errors. If you miss a green, get on the green in one shot, maybe you hold, even if that's the 40ft, maybe hole, a 40 footer. But you get out of there, tap it in you go, hey, I made a bogey.

Stephen Malbon
That's fine, I'm good.

Claude Harmon III
Go to the next hole.

Stephen Malbon
What a wacky game we play.

Claude Harmon III
It's crazy.

Stephen Malbon
Long day. Long drink. The finished long drink, obviously. Peach flavor in Augusta, Georgia.

Cheers.

And did you play with Mark in the Floridian, pro am or the member, guest or what? You played with him once.

Claude Harmon III
One of my best friends. One of your best friends, Mark Wuertz. I have played with him. And, you know, Mark is a great example of Hope springs eternal. Mark always thinks that this is the day. And I love that about him. I mean, he's positive and, you know, he goes out and, you know, he wants to hit good shots. I mean, golf is a. I am always fascinated.

I mean, I am immersed in golf, right? My grandfather won the Masters. My dad's Butch Harmon. All of his brothers were golf instructors. My uncle Craig was the head pro at Oak Hill, where Brooks won the PGA last year for like 42 years. My uncle Dick that passed away, he was the head pro at River Oaks Country Club in Houston, Texas, for like, 30 years. Right. My uncle Billy, who's out at Tuscona, Billy caddied on tour for Jay halls for 30 years. Right. I've been doing this my whole life. I try and get away from golf when I can because it's all encompassing, and I am just fascinated by people like yourself. And, you know, our good friend Mark works. Golf is a. It is a. It is in your DNA. It is part of your life, and it's so important to you. Yeah. I mean, obviously the business standpoint, but golf is part of the fabric of your life. And I think that's one of the great things that it is the type of sport that is just.

It's all consuming.

Stephen Malbon
It really is.

Claude Harmon III
And it's so all consuming for me that people ask me, I mean, I play golf maybe once a year. People say, hey, do you want to play golf? And I'm like, I just want to try and get away from it.

Stephen Malbon
Michelle, we said, I told her that we were up in pebble, and I said, oh, I'm playing 36 today. I'm playing preserve in the morning, MPCC in the afternoon. She goes, like, someone would have to pay me a lot of money to do that. Like, that sounds horrible.

Claude Harmon III
Well, when people ask me what my favorite golf courses are, my golf course. My favorite golf courses wouldn't be what you think they would be, but they are golf courses where I have had amazing experiences with people that I love and like to be with. And for me, golf isn't about the golf course.

Right. People always say, you know, I mean, obviously, your favorite golf course is probably Augusta national. I'm like, no. One of my favorite golf courses.

My two favorite golf courses are Cruden Bay in Scotland, which is north of Aberdeen. I used to live there and have spent so many amazing.

I've been there on a sunny day with cool friends. I've been there on a horrendous day. But it's not Carnoustie, it's not St. Andrews. It's just kind of a hole in the wall. You love it, but I love it. And then my other second favorite golf course is Le Borde in France, outside of Paris. Why? Because Mark Wuertz and I, one of my best friends, we went there and in 2002 and had just the most amazing weekend there.

It's Baron Bix. Have you not played it? I mean, there isn't a golf course on the planet earth that is more up your alley than labour in Paris. Outside of Paris, it's about an hour and a half. The clubhouse is an old french chateau, Baron Bic. It was his hunting estate, and he wanted to build a golf course.

It could be one of the hardest golf courses, but it is just a magical place. And I remember less about the golf course and more about the time that mark and I spent there, the experience of us being there. So for me, golf is about people. It's about the people you play with. It's about those four or 5 hours that you get to spend time with people you like, that you enjoy. And, yeah, I mean, if you're on an amazing golf course and it's an amazing setting. I mean, one of the other great golf course, one of my favorite golf courses is sandhills. Have you played that one in Nebraska?

Cor Crenshaw out in the middle of.

I could drop you there. I could kidnap you blindfold you, take you to the middle of the golf course, take the blindfold off and say, where are you?

Stephen Malbon
You could figure it out.

Claude Harmon III
You would have no idea. You could be in Ireland, you could be in Scotland.

And again, I got to go there once with Ben Crenshaw. He designed the golf course and walked and played 18 holes there. And he told me about how they designed the golf courses. I was like, this is one of my favorite parts of the golf course. He's like, yeah, the dogs found this. We lived here in a trailer for a year on this property in the sandhills of Nebraska. And we spent a year they had in the clubhouse. They have, they call it a constellation map. I think they had over 100 holes routed, and it is just the coolest place. But to get to go there with Ben, who designed it, and we were in this cool part of the golf course, like a three hole. And he was like, yeah, we didn't know of this part. The dogs got lost, and we called them. They were barking, and we went over to this area and there was like. And we looked at each other and we went, oh, yeah, I can just see a hole up there. But the 17th hole at Sandhills is the. It's a famous. It's like their signature hole. It's like a part three. It's not very long tee box. You go over some dunes, and then the green is kind of set in these dunes on this hill. And I said, you know, the cool thing about this golf course in this hole is it looks like it's been here forever. And Ben said something and I've never forgot. He goes, it has been here forever. We found this. He said, the only thing we did was we came in and we pushed up a little bit of dirt in that area there, the green.

We made a green app, but it was flat. We found this. And I thought that was such a cool way of talking about golf course architecture. Yeah, we found this.

We found this hole. We didn't design this. The hole was already designed. We just found this.

Stephen Malbon
Start here and end here.

Claude Harmon III
Yeah. And so that was another one of my favorite golf courses, because that day was just so magical to be there. I didn't even. I didn't care and don't even know what I shot, but I'll always remember that because I got to spend a day on a golf course and built, you know, Ben, Crenshawn, Bill Core. I mean, I think they. They're my favorite designers. I mean, Friar's head, if you've ever seen their design aesthetic, I really, really love. So to get a day with, you know, an icon like Ben Kenshaw, who's just the coolest guy anymore.

Stephen Malbon
I saw him yesterday with the little eclipse glasses dude.

Claude Harmon III
I saw him today, and, you know, he's just like.

I mean, to me, he's like the Willie Nelson of golf. Yeah, he is cool. He's just.

Stephen Malbon
He is as cool as in.

Claude Harmon III
He's just like a old school throwback. But that day, to me, was just so magical to just have him tell me about how he designed this golf course. Just so fucking cool, man.

Stephen Malbon
That is about as cool as me sitting here with you and getting my head filled with how I'm gonna get better at golf.

Thank you for coming, buddy.

Claude Harmon III
Listen, man, you are doing some really, really cool stuff. And, you know, it's been for those of us that are outside of kind of what you're doing, watching, like, what you do and how you have come into the golf space is just been. I mean, you know, I mean, anytime I'm anywhere in the world and someone's got a Malbon golf bag, I mean. I mean, I've sent you. I've sent you a ton of pictures from Asia this year. I'm like, Asia knows what. What's up with Malvon and stuff. Like. But honestly, man, I think the stuff you're doing, the podcast, but just everything. You've brought a very, very cool, refreshing kind of new take. And the thing I love about it is it's so new, but it's not like a lot of the fits and a lot of stuff. I mean, the stuff. I mean, the stuff you're doing with J Day, I'm like, I wore that shit. I mean, Freddy couples. My dad and my uncle Dick used to coach Freddy couples. He used to give me the walking man Ashworth shirts with the huge Ashworth logo from the eighties and the nineties. And I think some of the stuff that you're doing with J day, I'm like, yeah. I mean, yeah.

Stephen Malbon
Like, I grew up on that jday.

Claude Harmon III
That's what I wore stuff, too. I wore that stuff. The big sleeves and stuff like that.

Stephen Malbon
Those big sun wind shirts. And Jason loves all of that. It's been great, you know, letting him dress himself with our offering. Cause if people are like, you know, do you make him wear this? It's like, no, dude. We don't sell at Dick's sporting goods. We sell direct to consumer. Like, I don't need him to wear a shirt tomorrow, so it sells Monday. If he wins, he can wear whatever he wants. We give him tons of stuff. And he's like, constantly, you know, wants to wear what he wants to want. He wants to be comfortable. Those shirts are baggy. He doesn't feel comfortable being restored.

Claude Harmon III
If you look at the way Adam Scott changed his fashion over the years from coming out early, I mean, nobody, not a lot of people know. I don't even know if you know this. I helped get Scotty when he turned pro. I helped get Scotty a deal with Jay Lindeberg because I knew, obviously, I knew Johan.

I met Johan Lindeberg. And so Adam Scott, when he first was on the european tour, was full Jay Lindeberg out. I mean, look, plaid, the whole thing. And then he goes aquascutum and then Burberry, and then he goes to Uniqlo, and everybody's like, you know, what the hell was that? Big, baggy trousers. And Scotty's like, I'm telling you, man. And if you look at fashion outside of golf, I mean, fashion has gone from.

It's swung again, like, it's gone from super skinny, super fitted now to where everything kind of looks like it looked in the eighties and stuff. And, you know, pleats are back in, fleets are great. You know, Chris Rosalison, who's making at extracurricular, who's making all the DJ stuff. I mean, DJ's wearing pants this week at Augusta that have one pleat in them.

Stephen Malbon
That's great, you know?

Claude Harmon III
And I'm like.

And he was like, man, I kind of like it. You know, DJ was like, man, I kind of like the one pleat. And the crazy thing about someone like DJ is obviously he was at Audi forever, right? And DJ looks good in clothes, right? I mean. I mean, it's good. It's gonna be hard for DJ to.

Stephen Malbon
Look bad in clothes.

Claude Harmon III
I mean, the guy's six'four. He's in good shape. I mean, he's got a great body for clothes, right?

The opposite of someone that's short, right? But he wants to look as soon as his Adidas deal was up, right? What shoes does he go to? Footjoy classics. Yeah, he could have gone anywhere, right, and done something really cool. But on the golf course, DJ, does he like to push the envelope and stuff like that. But he's like, he still wants some traditional side thing. So the fact that he's being respectful, so, like, the fact that the pleats back this week for him, he was like. And I love it. But that's the cool thing I think you're doing. I think it takes people like you to make the bigger brands kind of go. Because by the time it gets. It's like that scene out of the devil wears Prada, right, where she's like, you know, it's just fashion. She's like, and by the time we did this, you know, and by the time it gets to the mall where you bought it at the gap or the limited and stuff like that, that's three seasons ago. Fashion is. We're so far down the road from that. But I think you will see what you're doing.

Bleed into the fits, I think are largely going to be because someone like yourself came in and went, no, no, we're going the other way now. Like, we're going back to maybe the eighties, right? We're going back to the fits of the eighties. You know, I look at the clothes that my dad and I have sent you, all those pictures. I mean, you know, the retro stuff. But it's hard to imagine right now that everybody looks at the way Jay days, you know, they were like, and I know that one of the best things I saw when they posted, when they first posted what we were wearing, somebody said, he looks like a Walmart greeter. And I know you're going, dude, that is exactly the look that I was going for. Perfect. I mean, there's a perfect analogy. You know, khakis, big and stuff like that. But honestly, man, I'm not saying this just cause you had me on the pod. I think the shit you're doing and, you know, and the way you're doing it, right, the limited drops, I think it's. I think it's genius. Like, when we first met, Mark introduced us. I was like, hey, man, you did a really cool hoodie, like last season. Kind of get one, you're like, now they're gone. I'm like, what? But you're like, yeah, it's a supreme model. Once it's gone, it's gone. And the scarcity breeds the demand and.

Stephen Malbon
That all, like, actually happened, like underfunded. So when you start a brand and you're underfunded and you can only buy x amount of shit and then it takes a long time to make it, but you get more emails and more instagram in between, and then it's like when I'm buying stuff now, like, we have a new balance drop coming out next week or something. And, you know, a year and a half ago when I ordered x amount of new balance shoes, I was horrified. And now I'm like, fuck, if I could have gone back, I could have probably gotten more. So it's like the golf is growing, the COVID wave, the young, creative golfers, like, so much happening.

Claude Harmon III
And I think the other cool thing that you're doing is the collabs to bring, you know, the Prince Collab, right? A tennis brand with a golf. I mean, I think that's fucking genius.

Stephen Malbon
You know what I mean? It's fun.

Claude Harmon III
Yeah, but that's the thing.

Stephen Malbon
It's gotta be like, it's fun.

Claude Harmon III
It's gotta be fun.

I mean, and I was looking at the way J Day was dressed on the golf, on the range at Augusta today, and I was like, I'm here for it. Like, there's space for that, right? It doesn't have to be the same thing, you know, it's like when Billy Ho started, you know, when he leaned heavily into what polo and Ralph Lauren wanted him to wear. You know, when he leaned. Leaned into it, it was cool, right? I mean, it was. It was sick. I mean, like, I remember kind of the first one that he started doing. It was at the US. Open it, Marion that Rosie won. Was it like 13 or something like that? But he showed up and he was wearing. He had like the blue pants with blue octopuses all over it. Everybody was just like freaking out. I was like, man, I wore that shit in high school. I mean, everything I wore in high school was J. Crew. That's all I wore.

Everything was just J. Crew. And a friend of mine sent me a picture in high school for me in high school the other day. And I was like, all J. Crew. And I'm like, that looks like a lot of stuff that's out right now. And that was like, early eighties. So I think it is cool that, you know, I look at some of the outfits. My dad. I remember my dad coming to Augusta one year, and he wore. It's in the eighties, and he wore the Sansa belt pants with the built in belt, and they were burnt orange, right? We're talking, like, university of Texas burnt orange and a brown shirt. Like a chocolate brown shirt. And you look back at some of that stuff and you're like, it's awful, but it's kind of cool.

But, no, I think you're. You're right on the cutting edge of where everything is going, and I think it's cool, man. And congrats, because I think it's. You're doing cool shit.

Stephen Malbon
You're the best. Thank you for coming, boss.

Claude Harmon III
That's an inside joke. That's inside baseball if you know it.

Stephen Malbon
See you next time. Part two podcast out.