Brutally Honest Business Advice to my Younger Self

This episode is about offering practical and brutally honest business advice, aimed particularly at entrepreneurs starting or running their own businesses.

1. Focus on opportunities where there's already customer interest rather than trying to create a market.
2. Leverage past business experiences as learning opportunities for future ventures.
3. Prioritize working on problems or projects that genuinely interest you over purely chasing financial opportunities.
4. Understand the importance of choosing the right business partners and models that align with your goals.
5. Develop strategies for effective marketing and customer engagement to ensure business growth.

1. Introduction

Noah Kagan introduces the theme of the episode, emphasizing the shift from general career advice to specific business strategies. He outlines the main topics to be discussed. Noah Kagan: "Today we're shifting from career advice to business advice."

2. Lessons from Past Businesses

Discusses various businesses Noah started and what each taught him about entrepreneurship, partnerships, and the market. Noah Kagan: "Each business venture taught me something crucial about what not to do next time."

3. Sustaining Business Success

Noah talks about the importance of sustainability in business and shares insights on maintaining success over time. Noah Kagan: "Sustainability is key in business; it's not just about starting but also maintaining success."

4. Customer-Centric Strategies

Focuses on understanding customer needs and building business models that cater effectively to those needs. Noah Kagan: "Understand what's most important to my customer and build around that."

5. Conclusion

Summarizes the key points discussed and offers final thoughts on pursuing business ventures. Noah Kagan: "Follow your curiosity, focus on proven paths, and learn from every single action."

1. Identify existing customer interest before starting a business.
2. Use personal experiences as learning opportunities to improve future business strategies.
3. Choose business partners and models that align with personal and professional values.
4. Focus marketing efforts on areas where customers are most engaged.
5. Continuously evaluate and adapt business strategies based on market feedback.

Today is the next part of our brutally honest series. We're shifting from 'Career Advice' to 'Business Advice'. Careers are like dipping your toes in the water, but business is where the real cash flow happens. And you know me, I'm all about that money!

I’m jumping back into the Miata time machine for 'Back to Noah’s Future 2', where I’m sharing the best business advice I wish I knew back in the day, and hey, maybe it’ll help you out too.

People are always hustling to reinvent the wheel and create new paths in business but the best path is already cut for you. So Listen up to my mental torment, learn from my mishaps, and hop on the expressway to those sweet, sweet money bags

People

Noah Kagan

Companies

AppSumo

Books

Million Dollar Weekend

Content Warnings:

None

Noah Kagan

What is up, you sexy bastards? It is your boy ice cream sprinkles, aka rap I can't lose aka Noah. Kagan, who comes up with these names. Today is the next part of our brutally honest series. We've heard amazing feedback from this and today we're shifting from career advice in the previous episode, which you can check out to business advice.

Careers are like dipping your toes in the water, but business is where the. Real cash flow happens. And you know me, I like the hustle. I like the dollar bill. Now I'm jumping back into my Miata 2004 time machine to Noah's back to the future dose, where I'm sharing my best business advice I wish I knew back in the day.

And hey, I do believe it will help you too. In present day, people are always hustling to reinvent the wheel and create new paths in business. But the best path has already been figured out. Don't try to be innovative nine out of ten times. Copy nine out of ten and innovate.

Kagan

One out of ten times. So listen up, my sweet listeners. Here's three gigantic things you're going to be taking away. Number one, should you be following curiosity or opportunity? Hmm?

Noah Kagan

Number two, find people who are already saying yes to a sale and how do you build a business around them? And number three, how do you get balls rolling and sustain in success? We're gonna talk about those three things. Plus 20, plus more ear nuggets along the way. If you liked this episode and you want more brutally honest advice about getting started in your career, check out episode 346 in this feed as well.

Send me feedback oahkagan on Twitter or. Instagram and let me know what you. Think of these brutally honest episodes. It is spring break@appsumo.com. Dot I don't know if you all remember spring break if you're too old for it, but you are not too old to party.

And to celebrate, we are running some insane lifetime deals as usual, for twelve different products to help you run your business on Appsumo. No more monthly subscriptions. These are lifetime deals. So hopefully you live forever and use the products forever and you never have to pay for them again. If you're a solopreneur or you're running a business and you want to save.

Money on your costs, you can go check them out and enjoy at Appsumo, y'all. If you are not on my mailing list, we have exclusive emails each and every week. Go to noahkagan.com and sign up today. I think you're gonna be some juicy. Business nuggets for you to enjoy.

Also, special pre show shout out to listener fat fubble. That was cool. I always look forward to my run listening to the show with Noah and guests along. Feel good vibes with loads of juicy insights. Thanks bro Oli from run 77 run thank you fatfubble for that amazing feedback and great review and thank you everyone your gorgeous listeners.

I love being in your earlobes. I want to shout you out in a future episode. If you've got a book, if you've got a URL, if you're working on something, let me shout you out. All you have to do is leave a review on iTunes or Spotify about what you think of this episodes and this show. Check every single one of them.

Kagan

Love to shout you out in a future show.

Noah Kagan

So in terms of business, what mistakes. Did you make before you learned? I think a huge mistake was not realizing that everything I was doing was actually leading me somewhere. So I was swinging all the time, almost maybe too much. And I wasn't just realizing that each of them had something to teach me.

Kagan

And so as you are doing different. Things in your business and it's not. Working, stop for a second and say thank you friend for teaching me something interesting about what's going on. So I was swinging a lot. You know, I swung HFG consulting, doing marketing for college campuses.

While I graduated, I did ninjacard.com comma, a discount card, which was a swing. I did collegeup.org comma, which was another swing, which was craigslist for people with email addresses, college students. Then I swung with entrepreneur 27, which was just meetups and hangouts of other people. And then I swung on community next because I wanted a conference for social networking and there wasn't one. And so that community next then led.

Me to mint.com, and mint.com led me. To do Kickflip, which was Facebook games. And Kikflip led me to do Gambit. Which is payments for Facebook games. And Gambit then led me to ultimately end up doing Appsumo, which has become my life's work.

Kagan

And so all of these swings are actually a great learning opportunities if I just looked at them as learning moments. And there was just a lot of. Things that I hated along the way that all were learning moments, too. You know, I did the payments for. Facebook games and I learned about the power of partners, right?

Like, who are you really marrying? When we talk about business and we're. Like, I need a co founder. I'm like, do you really want a. Co founder, if you don't find the.

Right person, it's going to be a big pain in the ass. Or as my grandma Mimo would say, they didn't. So that was a great learning opportunity where me and the partners each thought we were more important than each other. And it turns out we were all. The most important, just maybe not all together.

And so that was a great learning moment. Another part from gambit as well, even just breaking down more specific examples, was it was a really great sales cycle. So the business model matters. So specifically with Gambit. It was a really cool business model.

Kagan

Where we built this payments engine, and literally, you plug it into the games. And instantly we made cash. So from a business model perspective, it was really powerful to realize about getting paid upfront. Being close to the money is important. But there's also an opposite side of that, which was some of the sales.

Cycles for larger clients, like zyngas of the world, Disney's of the world, platem of the world, store made of the. World could take six to twelve months. A lot of ass kissing. They would put us in, we'd start. Getting rich, and then they would take us out two weeks later.

And it really helped teach me in business the value of what's most important to my customer. And if you're going to do a. Long sales cycle, it's got to be a long reward. Short sales cycle is quick reward. And those were really valuable lessons along the way that kept teaching me different pieces.

Same thing from the conference stuff that I was talking about earlier. As I was doing Entrepreneur 27, as I was doing these conferences, I was looking up through some photos on Flickr. I know y'all don't know about Flickr anymore. I had hair when there was Flickr. And I was like, holy shit.

I did wine meetups, I did chess. Meetups, I did ping pong meetups. I met the founder of Firefox, and I was connecting with Michael Arrington from Techcrunch. And those swings were really great at getting me just to be around other interesting people. And so I hear a lot of.

Kagan

People, Noah well, you have an audience now, and I love my audience. I love each of you. You're all my favorites. But it was starting the same way that everyone else is, that doesn't have an audience, by going out there and. Trying to meet people.

Maybe one high piece of business advice. Brutally honest, that I think I did. Correctly, that I would do again, is really follow your curiosity and really go after problems you're excited about. When I chase opportunities, when I chased, let's say today AI or a few. Years ago was crypto or last year was Shopify or, you know, like, and I don't think it's bad.

I definitely have chased, but when I've chased the opportunity, I flamed out. And when I chased my curiosity and when I chased the problem solving, I stuck with. So content creation and blogging and all these parts was hugely advantageous and I love doing it and I've stuck with it 24 years. Whereas when I did Facebook games because I wanted to get the hell out. Of mint.com or, you know, as I chased payments for these games in the.

Same kind of vein, or as I chased affiliate site, I built free calls two.com dot. It was really easy to give up and so I would just be mindful of the problems you're chasing, acknowledge the. Chase and be okay with it, and. Really be thinking it's a chase. And I'm just here learning business skills.

It's a chase and I'm using repetition to improve my business skills to get me to the point of what I want. Now on the other side of the. Chase was really great problems that I. Was excited about when I got the job at Facebook. It was only because I was using.

Facebook a lot in my consulting business. HFG, to do marketing to college students and I was using it to like communicate with people. And so I was like, man, I love this site. So if I'm, it's either going to be quit my job at intel, start my own business or go work here. So same thing with mint.com where I.

Was like, oh my God, I love. This, let's go do this one. Now. In your own life, what I encourage. You to reflect on is what are you using day to day?

Or what problems are you excited to work on? And I think that's such a great. Way to spend your life. What are the things you're using day to day that you would like to. Be more a part of or what.

Kagan

Problems would you want to spend your life on? And I do think I've made really. Good decisions because of that. And it's led me in a path where now my job is to promote software products or promote how people can. Start entrepreneurship or make content and figure.

Out how people can consume it and take action on that content. And those are all problems that I've been really excited to be doing. Learn personal finance. This is, you know, we'll talk about relationships and another brutally advice. But if you can just learn about.

Your money better, like such a game. Changer, you know, back in the day, and I still use the same spreadsheet, which is assets, liabilities, net worth. And then if you can start looking. At other businesses P and ls, and there's a lot of companies these days. Like Buffer who share a lot of their P and ls publicly.

Kagan

I think barometrics also used to share a lot of the finances of these different companies. Or you can go to indiehackers.com, but. Just learn about your own personal finance and learn about business finance. I went to college for business in undergrad. I didn't learn shit there.

But starting a business, the experience of business, and understanding the finances of business. Really teach you that. Holy shit. Taxes are crazy. So how do I minimize that?

Maybe you create an llc. Holy shit. My day job is fixed. There's a limited cap on that. So maybe I need to create other ways of optimizing my revenue streams.

I'm running this business and it's not super profitable. That's interesting, what's really going on there. And so just having a deeper understanding. Of personal finance and business finance is. Something that I definitely did well.

And maybe let's separate this talk and, like things I did that I'm glad. I fucking did and things that I. Highly regret in business. In business, I'd say find someone to hate. I know this is an, I'm an optimistic, joyful person, which is our learned skills, but I definitely have frustrations.

But I would say the hate and. Anger of Facebook really had a good decade. I got a good decade of squeeze. Out of that one. So find someone to hate.

Let your hate motivate. And I reflect on the business that. I approached in my twenties, and I wonder candidly, how did I not give up? I was joking earlier this morning about how I applied for a job at Yahoo. It was a six figure job after Facebook.

And I remember thinking, I just can't do it. Like one. Yahoo's dumb for hiring me. Let's just start there. Who even uses Yahoo nowadays?

But I just can't do it. I'm so angry. And I need a chance to show myself that I can prove them wrong. And I would say in my thirties, especially in my forties, it's proving myself right. But find an enemy to really motivate you.

Kagan

And maybe it's not this hate part, but I will tell you that fucking got me going in business where I was just like, I'm going to keep going until I finally prove them wrong. And what you realize in that business experience, because you need to have something to motivate you. Like when people ask what motivates you. I was like myself because I'm fucking angry. You can even hear my voice, how it brings up a trigger in me.

And over time, you realize that these people don't care that you hate them or that you motivate them. And over time, you realize that maybe you want to be motivated out of excitement and optimism. And that's how it will shift over. Time, who you're working with, the problems. You'Re working on, the things you're spending.

Time on, and you will get that shift. But find that thing that really is inspiring for yourself, that you're excited to get up early in the morning to. Check it, you're staying up late to working on it, and you're motivated around it. Another thing I would say, I don't. Know if it's maybe more of a mix, is that I would just be intense.

Kagan

I think there's times for different intensities where I would just be insane on this work. So when we were doing gambit, I kid you not, I was probably working 16 hours days because a lot of. Our customers were in Europe, and it was awesome. We got $150,000 a day in revenue. We were doing at our peak, it was about $15,000 a day in profit for three people.

It's a lot of money. I was good with that intensity. And I think the reflection on that business advice is that if there's opportunity, sometimes it is time sensitive and you. Have to run with it. And there's also a business advice on.

Kagan

The other side of that about having consistency and sustainability in your success. So if there's intensity, run with it. And, you know, I think maybe that what I'd reflect on from a business. Perspective is that it's intensity to get. The ball rolling, and then it's sustainability.

To get the ball winning. Another business advice. Give gifts. Gifts are the cheapest way to get. People to like you.

I did a gift to get a. Customer named Greg Sang. He ran Tag.com. I don't know if it's still around. But they were like the shit back in the day.

Kagan

And I remember he was a runner, so I sent him running shoes. Such a stupid ass way to get him to actually pay attention to me. But that eventually led him to do a deal which ended up making us tens of thousands, if not hundreds of. Thousands of dollars from some shoes. So I think gift giving, either before, during, or after your interactions with people and really just be observant from employees and teammates, which I see at appsumo and what I see from almost the world is we just want to feel acknowledged.

And a gift is a cool way. To acknowledge and really see someone else. And I think in business it's very. Undervalued and it doesn't have to be expensive. Like, if you don't have any money, then make content as a gift, make a research as a gift.

Kagan

You can do things like that. But if you have even $100, you can send someone a pair of shoes. My things about gift giving is you want it to be something that they use regularly and see regularly. So cups, coffee mugs, like an ember coffee mug I think is a cool idea. It's something unique.

I got my buddy Louis Haus some new air Jordans. They were about a g, but it was just like, wow, he's going to be like, damn, that's the coin for a $1,000. It's just a cool thing to send to someone as well. Ali Abdall. I love Ali Abdall.

Go get his book, feel good productivity. He was so unbelievably helpful advice and just support around million dollar weekend. So I sent him a gift for him and his fiance. I sent him a cool camera that. They can do for date night.

Again, gift giving, highly underrated.

Noah Kagan

We've got a sponsor I've got to give some love to. And no, they didn't even pay for this. I just love their product so much. And want to give them some love. And encourage you to check them out.

It is lmnt, or as some people call it, element. It is electrolytes. It is salt. I use it almost every single day and definitely every single time I am cycling. You probably have seen these guys on Tim Ferriss.

Kagan

You've probably seen it with Lance Armstrong. Seen it. Noah Kagan. Holy. They have a free pack with free shipping.

Noah Kagan

That's my favorite prices@drinklmnt.com. Noacagan that's drinklmnt.com noakagan. My favorite flavor is raspberry and I hate raspberry.

Whatever. Business advice. Shit, man. Brutally honest, the first dollar is still the sweetest. Like, if you haven't gotten a dollar remillion dollar weekend, I'll give you a dollar.

Kagan

But I still get excited making it first dollar. What I'm learning and noticing about business in general is that most people never get the dollar. And then when they get the dollar. They'Re looking for a separate dollar. And I'm like, no, just look for dollar number two.

And so how I've shifted my perspective over time is like once you get the first dollar and you get the second dollar, stick with these things. That's a powerful one that maybe you're not really recognizing, which is get the first dollar and then get a second dollar and a third dollar. Don't try to get brand new dollars in a separate category. Just keep working around that. Another business advice I'm seeing from a lot of other people is that they have a day job and they have a network and x skill they're trying.

To get their startup and their business in. Why network and why skill? Which is a very hard thing to cross over. And we see these stories about it. Which doesn't mean it's impossible, but it's just more challenging.

Kagan

And so a lot of people have day jobs and they're like, I want to be a content creator. And it's like, it's the same as your day job. It's the same, it's a job. And so instead of making it such a big jump from totally different industries, can you start smaller on this stuff? And if you want to be in.

Content creation or if you want to build stuff for content creators, this is. Like the exact thing I want to. Build stuff for content creators. Do you make content? No.

Do you know a lot of content creators? No. Okay. That's going to be hard. Doesn't mean you can't do it.

Kagan

It's just going to be a little harder. So how do you approach that for yourself? In a small way, just like getting. A few pieces of twigs. One of the thoughts I was having was like, in my twenties, my regret was I was just trying all these.

Businesses and in my forties I'm saying. No a lot more. So I'm selling most of my real estate. I think it's really thinking about the. Lifestyle you want to live.

In my twenties, I think it's like. Oh, you're supposed to do real estate, you're supposed to have a job, you're supposed to live these things. And to me it felt frantic. And so I have regrets how frantic I felt. And then it's kind of pulling back from that franticity and really dialing in.

Kagan

And thinking more about what's the life I want to work backwards from. I'll tell you, one of the things. In business that was the most helpful was getting cheated on. I was working at intel and I got cheated on. I remember just sitting on my couch and I was crying and my mom put her arm around me and she's like, it's going to be okay.

And everything ultimately actually is always okay. But what that sparked me to do was really just map out, like, I think I wrote 30 9365 ten. It was just working backwards from where I wanted to go. And I still think one of the best books of all time is Stephen Covey, seven habits of highly effective people. It doesn't say successful.

And that was a great reminder of. Working backwards from where you want to go. I think I always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, make a lot. Of money, live my life away. I just didn't know how I was going to get there.

Kagan

And so actually being a little more. Concrete with that saying, all right, how. Do I get $1,000 in a year? And I remember by 30, I wanted to be a millionaire, which I think I got to that. I wanted to have my own house.

I did not have that. I wanted to have a wife, kids and dog. Did not have that. But at least it gave me somewhere to shoot for. So working backwards from some of your.

Goals, you know, some of the other business advice, I was very good at. Getting focused on something to accomplish, maybe to a fault. So Zuckerberg taught me about focusing on one goal. And so the good about that is I would get, you know, we talked about working backwards. I would get obsessed to get to.

The goal at all costs. And then I would kind of stop. Right after I got the goal because I was so fucking tired and I was, like, burnt of these different areas. And so it's great to have one. Goal, but make it a more achievable goal that you can.

Kagan

If you. When you hit. When you hit it, you can sustain that for a longer period of time. What I learned at Mint was the. The best marketing is a great product.

And it was so exciting to work on it for myself. Cause I loved the problem, and the marketing was just easy, you know, Aaron, the founder, came over two days ago for some tea at my house, and he was just like, I've never seen him in market like you did. I wonder from time, like, if I didn't do it in the marketing that hired someone else, like, what would have. Happened for Mint would it has been. Where it is, maybe.

And so I do think there's a balance. Like, if you make a great product and tell no one, you know, I think that's the fantasy people trick you on. Like, oh, if you make a great video or you make a great song. Or you make a great software, you. Make a great book.

Like, people just tell others about it. But if no one knows about it. I think that's going to be a lot harder. And so to make your marketing easier. Find a business and find a problem.

That people are excited about and it. Makes the market getting fun and just a lot more easier to be effective. One of the things I was thinking. About in business is I started doing. These conferences and work backwards from the.

Kagan

Customers who have the money. It doesnt mean rich, it just means. People who have the money. And so when I was doing my conferences community next, I remember the first conference I went and looked at who was sponsoring other conferences. This is the same thing ive talked.

About million dollar weekend where I went. And studied other books, I went and talked to other authors, I went and looked at other covers, I did a lot of testing. How do you work backwards from things that are clearly working or people that. Are already spending money? So I remember hitting up people at Yahoo people at other businesses and they.

Kagan

Were already saying like yeah, I spend money, so work backwards from these customers that are already spending money. It made it a lot easier because. I knew they were already saying yes to the spends. Another thing in business advice that was super helpful is agree on the outcome. Of success of your customer.

So what I mean by that is as I was doing these sponsorships, one. Of the things I'd be asking people is like how do you measure your success? Like if this is the best money. You spend all year, what would make. It worth it for you?

Kagan

And it was interesting because there's a lot of different things. Like some people say I just want leads, meaning people. So just give me 15 people to sign up for my service and makes it worth it. Other people will be like I just want exposure. Those were great because I didn't care.

And so be mindful of your customer success and align on that. And the same thing with people you hire. I'd say another piece of business advice, I didn't think I did enough of my twenties. It was really about leadership, self leadership and external leadership. And so self leadership is just making.

Sure you're leading in a way for yourself that you're proud of. But really external leadership is how are you hiring people? And so, especially if you're just getting started, hire a cleaner at your house. Really? No.

Yeah, that's leadership, silly. But it's hiring someone, it's a green. On a money, it's making sure they're. Responsible, it's making sure they follow a checklist, it's making sure that you're checking in on them. I would say that is a skill.

Kagan

I developed definitely more in later thirties, you know, as Appsumo got started. But something that you can do today, you can get an assistant on hiremymom.com or on Fiverr, on freelancer, on upwork. And all of business is a problem that people want solved and then finding other people to help you really run that business. A lot of these things, people are. Trying to make you feel that it's overcomplicated.

I don't think that's the case. So yes, work on your leadership skills. You know, one of the things I. Didn'T used to do video chat interviews. With people when I hired them and.

I remember I did one with the person, I was like, holy shit, I got to do this because I, this guy was really creepy and I was scared of him and I was like, shit I should have hired him. So I was like, damn, do a video interview. I would say a good business tip. For everyone is just practice fucking selling and getting good. And what is a sell?

It's an ask. Selling has a really, it's actually negative connotation these days. But everyone's selling you something. An influencer is selling you like their Amazon affiliate link or someone's selling you. Their product or someone's trying to sell.

You on a relationship. And really it's an ask. And this is something that I've been thinking about which is how do you. Just get better at asking, right? And it's literally chapter two in the book of Million Dollar weekend which is practicing this.

And so asking for a sponsor of. A conference, asking someone to attend a. Conference, I remember asking someone to email. Out to their audience, to their Yahoo groups newsletter, like hey I got this conference, can you email it out to other vc's? And when people say how do you ask better?

Kagan

It's not even almost how you ask, it's just that you're asking and then you practice it. And so I would say in your. Own life, can you practice for a raise? Can you practice asking for a discount? Maybe on your bills, maybe on a coffee?

And the more that you do these. Things right away, the more you realize. That it's been holding you back but it's also what's going to set you free. And I got better at it. I just kept asking for all these things that now I've got to tone down.

I'm asking for too much sometimes. So I think that was really great. Id say especially in my twenties there wasnt much social media around but I. Would say what I can see more people doing better in business is prioritizing. Their time in business, if you think.

Kagan

About your week and you want to change your life in your business, how much time are you actually dedicating? Like, look in your calendar and how much time is actually allocated around it. And if you go up 1 hour and one Netflix, you can really change. Your life this week today. And that was something that I did really well in where I was very motivated to get out of a job.

And that led me to work in. The mornings, work on nights, work in weekends. And I remember distinctly speaking at Techstars. Boston, and I think it was like. Their first class, and I was talking about mint.

Kagan

But I got kind of excited about these Facebook games. And I remember giving my speech, and then during my speech, I was, like. Coding in the audience. And the important thing for you is, have somewhere to go, have a dream in your business life. Have a dream that you want to work backwards from.

And then really, as you're doing your. Day to day, week to week activities. Really think about, okay, what's my opportunity cost here? Like, if I get this thing going. When I get this thing going, like, I could do that.

And then in the next literally 30, 50 years of my life, have an awesome life. Or I can enjoy this crappy Netflix show. And that was something that highly motivated me because I wanted to get out so badly that I was willing to swing on all these things. You know, as I talk about my. Business experiences in my twenties, a lot of it was close encounters of success.

But there was just so many great. Learning moments across all this stuff, from conferences to coffee meetings, to brain pickings. Can I pick your brain? To blogging, to starting so many things now, not how I was starting so many things. I was just kind of saying yes to almost everything.

And if you think about it, high. Level one, I feel good about that. I kind of kept going because I think a lot of us, it's easy. To want to stop. I think if I had to summarize it, it's like in your twenties, or just if you're earlier in your business.

Journey, say yes to everything, so you. Can say no to what matters. Say yes to everything, so you can say no to what matters. And I would say yes to all. This stuff and all these people.

And then eventually, over time, as you. Understand yourself and how you want to live, you really just start dialing in what really matters. And you're like, okay, I'm going to say no to this stuff now because. I know what matters now, and it. Takes time to get to that level of wisdom.

Kagan

I think other business thing I'm seeing brutally honest people try to do something brand new when they have things that. Already work and they already have so. Many things in their network and in their zone of influence that they're just not leveraging or their skills. They're not leveraging. Like there was a guy who emailed.

Me and it was such a cool email. He said, hey, I have an email list about vintage Porsche prices. And I was like, that is the. Most niche thing I've ever heard. You know, I have Miata prices but no one really cares about that.

His name is David Whitlock. And he said, yeah, you know, I've. Had these Porsche prices and you know, he chose a freedom number and it. Was, you know, I won't share his. But then in one day he just shot an email to, he had a 1600 person mailing list.

Kagan

That's, I mean, most of you guys can get 1000 person mailing list over. Some period of time of Porsche people. And he said, hey, I have all. This data on Porsche prices, does anyone want to pay for it? It's dollar 400 for my database.

Just sent it out, did a test. He started right away, really quickly. I don't know if you want me. To share his numbers, but it's almost $10,000 from one quick test email to a very small niche audience. I think that's just like such a.

Kagan

Cool story of, you know, you start, you swing, you try, you keep going, you start, you swing, you try, you keep going. And it really gets you to these. Amazing places in business. I think what I would end again on this is, I think we think. It'S someone else out there that's supposed to have these things or someone else in business that's better than us.

And the reality is they're not, they're different than us. And they have skills that we're not good at and we find them to compliment us. But we don't have to think that. We'Re not able to get to these different places. May not happen immediately.

Kagan

It may not. But I promise you, if you stick with the business stuff, if you follow a million dollar weekend processor and other. Variations out there and you just keep. Going, like, you will get to the spot, I promise. I think it's very interesting to work.

On things you just hate. I did that a lot. Like we built this bed arcade side and I just remember hating my partners, the sports gambling website, which now is. Like draftkings, but just like don't work. On things you hate.

It's too short. But I was like didn't like the partners, didn't like the space. And I spent six months just being afraid. And I wish I would have been more confident that, hey, this is not right. I don't like this.

Kagan

I don't like these people and feeling more confident to leave that sooner. The other thing I would say, what's. Interesting about that is that everything has two sides. So that business led us to build. Gambit, which was the payments, which then exploded, and then gambit, even though it.

Didn'T work out, that we were very close to then leaving Gambit to starting a stripe product, which stripe didn't exist. And so even though the thing you. Have, you might hate, it's teaching you. Something and it's really leading you to a place that I think you can stick with. There's a lot of value in business.

I think business, there's two parts of it. It's finding something people really want and then sticking with it for an exceptionally. Long period of time. And I think what most people are. Getting backwards in businesses, grit and sustaining, is taught as a virtue and something to do.

And what happens though, is they're sticking. With losers too long. They're not finding the winner and sticking with it long enough. And I think around 30 is when Appsumo got started. And I thank God with all these.

Lessons from partners, from marketing, from starting. From asking, from a goal, from all. These different attributes, it was like getting appsumo to 14 years later, which is. Kind of crazy, probably 14 years and. The places you will go.

So that was a rambling of a. Bunch of different ideas around business for myself. And, you know, maybe leave it with why not you? Why not you?

Noah Kagan

That is a wrap. I hope you loved the episode as much as we did making it for you. Remember to check out the incredible lifetime deals that we've talked about during spring Break@appsumo.com. Dot they're limited edition only. Also, check out my brand new book, Million Dollar Weekend.

Kagan

You guys have already heard about this a ton. I've talked about it a ton. But, you know, in business, they say. What do they say? You have to repeat the same thing thousand times for people to finally do it.

Noah Kagan

Yes, million dollar weekend. Go to milliondollarweekend.com dot. Go check it out. Next, text a friend. You love him.

Finally, a couple of shout outs to the amazing team who helped make this happen. Special thanks to jasonodcasttech.com for doing all. The magic on these shows. Thank you to Jeremy, Cam, sylvie, Jay, diego, and memo from the dork team for all the magic. Y'all do have a.

Have a burrito day. What's your favorite asian dish?