The ROI on Caitlin Clark, Sports Betting During the NBA Playoffs and Investing in Sports Memorabilia with Darren Rovell

This episode delves into the financial dynamics of sports, discussing the impact of sports betting, the economic implications of rising WNBA stars like Caitlin Clark, and the value of sports memorabilia.

1. The growth of sports betting has profound social and economic implications, with significant participation even among the youth.
2. The financial landscape of the WNBA remains challenging, with stars like Caitlin Clark earning substantially less than their NBA counterparts despite high performance and popularity.
3. Sports memorabilia presents a lucrative but complex investment opportunity, requiring careful strategy and knowledge of the market.
4. Rovell highlights the importance of financial literacy when engaging in gambling, advocating for a responsible approach.
5. The episode sheds light on the evolving nature of sports business and the increasing integration of finance into sports fandom.

1: Introduction to Sports Betting

Darren Rovell discusses the surge in sports betting, its societal integration, and concerns regarding its impact on youth. Darren Rovell: "We wake up to gamble... That's how our blood boils."

2: Financial Discrepancies in the WNBA

Discussion on the economic challenges faced by WNBA players like Caitlin Clark, despite increasing popularity. Darren Rovell: "Caitlin Clark is going to sell three times the amount of tickets that the fever sold last year."

3: Investing in Sports Memorabilia

Rovell shares insights into the profitable yet complex world of sports memorabilia collecting. Darren Rovell: "Collectibles are a great way to make money if you have a strategy."

1. Understand the Risks of Sports Betting: Educate yourself and approach sports betting with caution to avoid financial pitfalls.
2. Invest in Women's Sports: Support and invest in WNBA and other women's leagues to help bridge the financial gap.
3. Learn About Sports Memorabilia: Before investing, gain knowledge about what items are valuable and when to sell.
4. Promote Financial Literacy: Teach responsible gambling and financial strategies to the younger generation.
5. Stay Informed: Keep up-to-date with laws and developments in sports betting and memorabilia to make informed decisions.

From the epic NCAA tournament national title game to the NBA Playoffs right around the corner, there's a lot going on at the intersection of money and basketball. To talk about the opportunity for investors, Nicole calls up Darren Rovell, sports business analyst, collector extraordinaire, and founder of cllct. Nicole and Darren talk about the rise of sports betting, what the new rookies mean for the profitability of the WNBA and the value of basketball memorabilia.

People

Nicole Lapin, Darren Rovell

Companies

NBA, WNBA

Books

None

Guest Name(s):

Darren Rovell

Content Warnings:

None

Nicole Lapin
I'm Nicole Lapin, the only financial expert. You don't need a dictionary to understand it's time for some money rehab.

So I'm definitely not a sports girly, but I feel like I could be. One with all of the exciting financial buzz going around in that world. From the epic NCAA tournament national title game, that was the most watched basketball game, including NBA and WNBA, since 2019, to the NBA playoffs right around the corner, there is so much good stuff going on. So to talk about all things at the intersection of basketball and money, I am calling up my longtime homie, Darren Revell. He is a sports business analyst, a collector extraordinaire, and also my friend for 100,000 years, since we met at CNBC.

Today, we talk about the rise of sports betting, what the new rookies mean for profitability of the WNBA, and the value of baseball memorabilia. If you have any lying around, here's Darren Dero. Darren Revelle, welcome back to money rehab. It's so good to be here. On mister on say that ten times best.

Morgan Lavoie
We have so many things to talk about, but NBA playoffs is a biggie. So talk to me about it. Can we start with sports betting? How much do you think will be exchanged on sports betting platforms over the course of the playoffs? Well, listen, I think sports betting is going, although I got out of it after five years in it, I think that sports betting is going to continue.

Darren Rovell
I am a little bit concerned about the youth of America here. As my ten year old, one of my ten year olds, downloaded a betting platform. I think the key here for people who listen to your show is that gambling is just part of the life on tilt. We now live between bitcoin main stocks. Doesn't matter how we feel every day.

We wake up to gamble and we wake up to. That's how our blood boils. That's how our kids are growing to grow up. And so to me, it's just interesting that we have to feel that need for that dopamine, and I hope that people do it in a smart manner. Yeah, it's a dopamine cage match.

Morgan Lavoie
Is that why you left? No, I left because I like to be a pioneer, and I thought that my next stage was kind of bringing a more sophisticated approach to sports collectible and collectible journalism, and it wasn't there. That's why I left. And you're so freaking good at that. And we'll get to that in a second.

But just to quickly double click on sports betting and why it's gone through all these major changes in the last year. I mean, it's happening on the state's level, right? Ohio. Correct me if I'm wrong, Massachusetts, Florida, Kentucky, Maine, Vermont, they've all launched mobile sports betting in the past year ish. But then there were some other states, like Georgia.

They've shut down attempts to legalize sports betting. So what do you think are the pros and cons that these states are weighing to come up with a decision on sports betting? Well, I think. I think there are some states that haven't generated the money. In order to have an open system, which is allow all these sports books to operate instead of a more restricted system, you need to be able to figure out what type of money you're actually going to bring in.

Darren Rovell
So I think there's been some disappointments. They've kept it quiet, but some states aren't making as much as they thought they would make. And then you have states like New York that have a 51% tax on gross gaming revenue, which means only the big boys can come in, which means there's only five or six licenses. It really is state by state. I think the ones that have not dip their toe in there are obviously some states, like Wisconsin and Utah, that'll be hard forever.

But there are other states that think that the juice is not worth the. Squeeze, or they thought maybe it was, but then they started squeezing. Looked around. Damn it. There's no juice in this orange.

Yes. Yes. All right. I know we're talking mostly about the NBA, but NFL, really quickly, Roger Goodell came under some fire for historically, just being against sports betting, but now they have three official sports right drafts. Kings fans, Duel Caesars.

Morgan Lavoie
They allow sportsbooks to operate at league stadiums. Do you think he's doing the right thing? All these commissioners, all the leagues in 2017 wrote to the Supreme Court to say, we don't want this. And then a year and a half later, completely flipped around when the revenue came in. It's almost like the greatest collection of receipts you'll ever have in your life.

Darren Rovell
I remember when I went to Vegas and Gary Bettman of the NHL basically said, hey, we're introducing the Vegas Golden Knights, but you won't be able to gamble on them within this radius, blah, blah, blah. And of course, then when the Golden Knights came, of course you could gamble on them. So. So, yes, I mean, these guys look like hypocrites. The thing that I think that this, the all teams and all leagues are missing is the security.

They have not made the security better. And when you think about a guy who misses a shot, and that costs someone on their parlay $30,000. And that person is in person, and that person is 500 yards from the person who missed the shot. I worry that they haven't done enough. On that front, but it's all about money.

Morgan Lavoie
Do you think it's a conflict of interest? It's not a conflict of interest. I think in basketball it's gotten to be tough because it's all about the stats. So there's a lot of stat parlays in basketball, right, where you're saying the guy's going to have more than ten rebounds, he's going to have more than seven assists, he's going to have more than four points. And the rebounds has been a major cause of contention because the stat person will say, some guy comes down with a rebound and then it gets tipped out of his hand, and the stat person will say, that's not a rebound.

Darren Rovell
It was a controlled tip, and then it doesn't go as a rebound. And then I'm getting calls. When I was covering this from people, you know, texts from people I've spoken to before, big better saying, that was a rebound. That was a rebound. The league, that was a rebound.

And it's like, you know, all of a sudden these stats where no one really particularly cared because all it was was the player's stats or the team stats. Now they care so much because one call that they perceive wrong is costing them tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah. I mean, it brings a whole new meaning to couch refs, right? When you don't have any money on the line, it's just silly.

Morgan Lavoie
But when you do. Yeah, the rebound or the tip, like, the semantics makes all the difference. What do you say to exposed to gambling? Young kids or young kids at heart who are now being exposed to gambling? Yeah, I mean, I guess it's not unlike alcohol, right?

Darren Rovell
Where, you know, the same parents of the last generation who sat their kids down and said, this is vodka, you're 15, okay? You drink it in moderation. And if you want to drink, drink here to start. And so you don't go totally crazy at Lara Charno's house. Right?

So that's, you know, you real person. By the way, you just wanted to drop Lara Charno. What's up? I haven't spoken to you since 1996. So that's what I'm saying.

Like, you have to do the same thing with gambling. I will tell you that I had a friend who did that with his son, $10, $25, whatever, and his son won $3,000 oh. And then he made. Then he said, okay, I'm going to give you half. And the son said, okay, I'll take 1500.

He goes, nope, you'll take 750, because that's with taxes. Well, that's cool. He's teaching financial literacy early on, so. Cool. Yes.

Cool. I think it comes down in the same way. And one of the things that I did to show my kids, and I didn't. I didn't do the gambling thing, but they saw it through me. Betting was to look at my file on my computer that says, every bet I made for five years, every bet I made, whether I won or lost, what was my total?

I wrote down every bet. And I also. I encourage that for anyone. You can keep track in the action network, my former employer, because the worst part about getting out of control with betting is the losses you forget about. And if you have it written down, you can't forget about it.

Morgan Lavoie
Smart. So, that then changes your behavior on what I should bet the next time. Or you can see, well, I love the NBA, but I'm not good at it. It allows you to understand your own truth. Yeah.

Because you can have selective memories about that. Like. Correct, correct. I have a question. Correct, correct.

Darren Rovell
Remember that one time? Yeah, that was awesome. I was so good. But it's not just kids. Like, it's everyone who's susceptible to the dopamine cage match.

Yep. And it's. And it. And it carries over from phones to YouTube. The focus on money.

Because of the youtubers, the focus of my ten year old boys on counting their money, making money, spending money, because faze rug, you know, is. You know, my sons don't know of a Honda. They never give away a Honda. They only give away Teslas. So it's like, the focus on money, because all these games that these influencers are doing that my boys watch, uh, it translates into real life.

And to me. Yeah. I mean, maybe then there's an also an opportunity, like your friend did with his son, who were like, yeah, these are earnings. These are what taxes are. This is how, you know, debt works.

Yep. No, absolutely. Let's get back to basketball for a second. Caitlin Clark, who. She is the one to watch during March Madness.

Morgan Lavoie
Number one draft pick of the WNBA, expected to make 77 grand in her first year as the number one pick, compared to $10 million for the guys. The WNBA, as you know, has been fighting this uphill battle, battle, trying to get the very same audience and benefits as the NBA with these rising stars. It's not just Caitlin. It's Angel Reese. Do you think that they're going to move the needle to make the changes that need to happen with the WNBA?

Darren Rovell
Finally, she'll move the needle. Caitlin Clark. So, last year, the Indiana fever averaged 4700 fans per game, and now they're going to average 16,000. Unfortunately, the collective bargaining agreement doesn't allow a person like Caitlin to make off attendance or. Or be what she really is economically, to the WNBA.

And so that creates a problem, which is why I said she should have gone back to Iowa, because Iowa, their name, image and likeness collective, probably would have paid her about a million dollars versus 76,000, and she still would have been able to get her endorsements. So maybe. Maybe Caitlin Clark and everyone else in this class, people are talking about women's basketball more than ever before, get the WNBA to a certain point. But what is undeniable is that Caitlin Clark is going to sell three times the amount of tickets that the fever sold last year, and she's going to at least sell all these road venues. It would be nice if the collective bargaining agreement provided an avenue for her to be able to make the money that she's making these teams.

So even if she doesn't work out the hype that she's generating. Right. Like, she's still going to sell out all these arenas, and so it's not fair. I mean, but she is getting money from somewhere, right? Didn't she wear a $17,000 Prada outfit to the draft?

Morgan Lavoie
That's. That's 22% of her expected first year salary. The median income in Indiana is 55,550, and she's at 76,000. And she's, like, the star in Indiana. It's kind of.

Darren Rovell
Kind of insane that she's making, like, 21,000 away from. Where's the product money coming from? She has money. She's getting it from somewhere. Yeah.

I know her family's not rich, but I know that she. She had six jerseys she used throughout the year, and two were record breaking jerseys. And I think those jerseys, as of now, are probably worth a half a million dollars each. So is she getting in on that as the collector? Extraordinary that you are.

Morgan Lavoie
Do you think that. Yeah, she has them. Iowa gave them. Iowa gave. Gave her the jerseys.

Darren Rovell
She has the jerseys. My question is, is she going to strike when the iron's hot? Because it might not. She might not be more hot than now. That's the issue with athletes, right, that you have to, like, monetize, go out.

On top as someone who. Who copy edited the WNBA game programs in their first season as a sophomore at Northwestern. It's been a long road.

Morgan Lavoie
Would you invest in some Caitlin Clark memorabilia? I do not have Caitlin stuff. I have not found anything, you know, really, really interesting or high end. Hold onto your wallets. Money rehab.

Nicole Lapin
We'll be right back. Do you ever get FOMo fear of missing out? Well, do you ever get FOMO Tupita fear of missing out on the perfect hire? If so, I have the antidote. It's LinkedIn jobs.

LinkedIn jobs helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching for a new job, but might be open to the perfect role. In any given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. And that adds up to a serious squad of awesome candidates. LinkedIn has over a billion professionals on the platform, and these candidates are super qualified. So much so that 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within just 24 hours.

I work with LinkedIn jobs for all of my dream team needs. So they're hooking up money rehabbers@LinkedIn.com. Mnn. Go there and you can post your job for free. That's LinkedIn.com mn, as in money News Network.

To post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

And now for some more money rehab. So you just launched collect, collect. I really want to talk about that because it's genius. The first of its kind media company for collectors. Can you share some of your most prized basketball specific related memorabilia and how they're valued right now?

Darren Rovell
You're going to make me get up. Hold on. Let's, I mean, this is a specific one. This is kind of cool. So in the, in the 2000, maybe eight or nine season, the NBA used a synthetic basketball and it wound up cutting players hands.

And so the NBA discontinued it. And David Stern, the NBA commissioner, the then NBA commissioner, was kind of pseudo angry at me for going all in on how bad the basketball was. So he wrote, darren didn't know what to do with this discontinued model, so I autographed it and sent it to you, David J. Stern. So that's one of my, that's one of my fav, that's one of my favorites.

Morgan Lavoie
That's so passive aggressive. We just, it is so passive. It is. It is ridiculous. We just had the, what was it?

Darren Rovell
The 8th anniversary of Kobe's last game. So this is his last game ticket signed by him. Wow. Which I was at that game. I was here.

You were there. I was there. Oh, my God. I was there, too. He, I remember he wore like the body armor or something.

Body armor towel. Yeah. Like he was so, so smart, you know, getting into this. And he said, mamba out. Yes.

Morgan Lavoie
And then he dropped the mic. Like a boss. It was. Yeah, like a boss. And then the 11th anniversary of him tearing his achilles and then going to the foul line and.

Darren Rovell
And, you know, but he also crushed it in that last game, hitting the shot. Yeah, 60 points. It was amazing, Morgan. I mean, I think an issue that people run into when they're investing in alternatives. When I was at CNBC, at a desk just a few feet away from yours, I did a whole series on alternative investing.

Morgan Lavoie
I did a spiel on horses and wine and whatever, memorabilia and stuff. And the issue around investing in these alternative investments that are so risky is that just like, people don't know when the right time to sell a stock is. It's really hard to do the same thing with collectibles. But you just said, listen, I think it's not approved as much. Like when I'm loading stuff from ebay and auctioned into my house, my wife is like, WTf?

Darren Rovell
Does she ever ask about our stocks? Never. So it's like, it's like, and I have more money in stocks than this collectively, so, so, but that's what it is. It's like, it's like when I walked in on the one evening with a brown bag full of ties from the streets of New York and my wife says, we got to stop doing this. This is not classy.

And I go, let's do something. I'm going to take five ties from my closet that are like Zanyas, and then I'm going to take five street ties. And if you guess five out of ten, I will stop buying on the street. Three out of ten. Three out of ten.

So a lot of it is about what is the norms in society, right? And like, yes, if you're some, the Financial Times wrote the dumbest column, which is like, collectibles is a great way to lose your money if you want to lose your money. No. Bad business. People are bad at business.

You still have to have a take. You still have to make moves. You still have to watch it. You have to have strategy. So, like, I don't alt assets are just more risky because a lot of people go into alt and they're not sound at business.

They don't have a strategy. Like, the stock market has 150 years of this is what's happened. So I think collectibles are a great way to make money. If you have a strategy, know what you're doing. We are going to be the hobby watchdog.

So when something's going down that's not happening, that shouldn't happen, we will cover it. We are going to be the hobby cheerleader. We will cheer when there's amazing things happening, and we will be the educator. We want to do tons of faqs. Tomorrow.

I have a story. Should you get it graded? You have a card, you found it in a shoebox. You think it's in great condition. In 1985, this was a great card.

It's the Roger Clemens 1985 tops card. And you think it's great, and you send it to PSA to get graded. Well, let me tell you something. Roger Clemens tops rookie in a PSA, nine out of ten is worth $34, right? And it costs 40 to get graded.

So you gotta. You gotta be careful. I mean, you could literally lose money by not knowing what you're doing. And there's a lot of people asking. And we've had a great first week, and I'm really excited to do this full time because instead of champagne wishes and caviar dreams, I have champagne wishes and eBay dreams, I dream about eBay.

Oh, thank you. My next book is coming out. It actually has a whole section on alternatives and sports memorabilia. What is it? What?

What is it called? Money three. There's no bizarre, but you know who the real MVP is? Who misses Revelle? Oh, she's the real MVP dealer, being.

Morgan Lavoie
Married to you and all the hell could put. Who the hell could put up with me? I am. I am the worst. I am the absolute best.

Darren Rovell
Oh, let's. Let's have dinner at sugar fish soon, dear. Oh, we end our episodes by asking our guests for a buddy tape listeners can take straight to the bank. I know you have all of them, but is there something specific that listeners can think about when it comes to investing in sports memorabilia? Yeah.

When investing in investing in memorabilia, just always know that an anniversary is a great time to flip and always keep that anniversary in mind. So I usually have 30 or 40 anniversaries that I have kind of in my head two to four years down the road. So when I bought my Ferris Bueller vest in December, 2022, I knew that I had June 5, 2025, as the 40th anniversary of Ferris day off. When I'm buying some of our founding fathers and things that are signed by them, I have the 250th anniversary of we have America in our minds in 2026. So, you know, trade into news cycles.

Nicole Lapin
Money rehab is a production of Money news Network. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Money Rehab's executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Our researcher is Emily Holmes. Do you need some money rehab?

And let's be honest, we all do. So email us your money questions, moneyrehaboneynewsnetwork.com to potentially have your questions answered on the show or even have a one on one intervention with me. And follow us on instagramoneynews and TikTokoneynewsnetwork for exclusive video content. And lastly, thank you. No, seriously, thank you.

Thank you for listening and for investing in yourself, which is the most important investment you can make.