#792 - Craig Jones - Fighting A Woman For $1M, Ukraine War & Gordon Ryan

This episode delves into the life and ventures of Craig Jones, particularly his involvement in combat sports promotion and his unique experiences during the Ukraine war.

1. Combat Sports Promotion: Craig has ventured into combat sports promotion, offering a significant cash prize to attract top-tier athletes, challenging the traditional remuneration models in the sports.
2. Financial Struggles of Athletes: He discusses the financial struggles athletes face in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and combat sports, highlighting the need for better compensation structures.
3. Innovative Approaches: Craig's innovative approach to sports promotion and athlete engagement, including using his platform to increase the sport's visibility and financial viability.
4. Life Experiences: Insights into his life experiences, including his time on the front lines in Ukraine and how these experiences have influenced his views on life and combat sports.
5. Humor and Seriousness: Craig's ability to blend humor with serious discussions about sports, finance, and personal experiences provides a unique perspective on the usually intense world of combat sports.

1: Introduction

Overview of Craig's background in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and his recent activities, including his controversial decision to fight a woman for a $1 million prize.
Chris Williamson: "Welcome back to the show, Craig."

2: Combat Sports Promotion

Discussion on the financial aspects of combat sports and Craig's initiative to start a new tournament with a high cash prize.
Craig Jones: "We're gonna give away a million dollars to the winners."

3: Life and Experiences

Craig shares personal stories from his time in Ukraine and his perspective on life and death.
Craig Jones: "By the time this is over, I might be dead, but who knows?"

4: Philosophies and Beliefs

Exploration of Craig's philosophies on sport, competition, and his approach to life challenges.
Craig Jones: "It's about pushing the boundaries and challenging the status quo."

1. Explore New Ventures: Don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone and try new ventures, just like Craig did with sports promotion.
2. Financial Management for Athletes: Athletes should focus on financial management and look for opportunities to leverage their skills beyond traditional platforms.
3. Innovative Marketing: Use innovative marketing techniques to enhance visibility and engage a broader audience.
4. Life Lessons from Extreme Experiences: Use extreme life experiences as learning opportunities to shape personal and professional philosophies.
5. Balancing Humor and Seriousness: Balance humor with serious content to engage and educate your audience effectively.

Craig Jones is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu athlete, owner of B-Team and Founder of the Craig Jones Invitational.
Craig has decided to go to the front lines of the Ukraine war, and since returning to America has entered an even more dangerous territory - combat tournament promotion. Today we find out which is more ruthless.

Expect to learn the crazy, dangerous parts of the world Craig Jones has been living in recently,the reason Craig Jones is going to fight a woman in August, where you can get $1m dollars in cash from, why combat athletes are all so poor, what it feels like to fire a bazooka why Craig designed sunglasses with a tiny spoon on them and much more...

People

Craig Jones, Chris Williamson

Companies

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Craig Jones

Content Warnings:

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Chris Williamson
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Craig Jones. He's a brazilian jiu jitsu athlete, owner of b team, and founder of the Craig Jones Invitational. Craig has decided to go to the front lines of the Ukraine war, and since returning to America, has entered an even more dangerous territory combat tournament promotion.

Today we get to find out which is more ruthless. Expect to learn the crazy, dangerous parts of the world Craig has been living in recently. The reason he's going to fight a woman in August, where you can go to get $1 million in cash from. Why combat athletes are all so poor. What it feels like to fire a bazooka, why Craig designed sunglasses with a tiny spoon on them.

And much more. Even if you are not a BJJ fan, Craig is a very unique and interesting character. Some would say a menace. But I find him. I find him pretty fascinating.

The life that he is leading, the way, that he is trying to upend the world of martial arts is super intriguing, and I hope that you take lots away from this one. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Craig Jones.

Craig Jones, welcome to the show. I'm here. I'm alive for now. By the time this is, I might be dead, but who knows? I have to say, I'm not that interested in brazilian jiu jitsu as the sport itself.

Kind of complex to work out what's going on, but I've been pretty captivated by what's happened over the last few months. I mean, yeah, full time trolling, that's my. That's my commitment at this point. I mean, you're right, the sport is uninteresting, but it's full of weird characters. I can provoke and make it interesting on a surface level.

Craig Jones
Some of the strangest, most serious people in the world that take what they do very seriously. But for me, it's a bit weird, it's a bit gay. It's a bit easy to poke fun at. So that's my target in life. Why do you think brazilian jiu jitsu attracts such a particular subset of people?

I mean, it's a good question. I think some of the people were bullied, so it's like an empowerment thing. But then when you climb the ranks and get to the top, it's meant to kill your ego, but it gives you a bit of power. And then these guys take it very seriously. Obviously, in the kimonos, they tie the belts.

They've worked hard for it. So I love to provoke, but also, it looks weird, and they're self conscious about that. So me I'd rather embrace that than push back on it. Right. Because there's no way that you can roll around with another man for up to 45 minutes and it not be a little bit.

Chris Williamson
What are we doing here? Yeah, 100%. So it's like, everyone's not enjoyed that aspect of it, but me, I own it. I'm comfortable with it, you know, like, we have to get used to having someone's balls in our face. You know, we're sweating in each other's mouths.

Craig Jones
It is what it is. We should laugh at it. You're public enemy number one right now, kind of. What have you done for the people that don't know what's happening right now in the world of grappling? What have you done?

Yeah, I mean, I have. I have a friend. I'll tell you a friend. It's anonymous source. Or maybe I made the money through other means.

Obviously, we've been going to Ukraine, we've gone to different countries where perhaps there's different sources of funding. I've been in Dubai, you know, like, some go get a handbag. I come back with a few million, you know, and I've used this money to basically support the sport. So I've decided to throw a tournament where we're gonna give away a million dollars to the two divisions under 80 kilos. Over 80 kilos.

And that is 100 times more than sort of the other event that people consider the Olympics of our sport. And I've decided to throw it the same weekend to sort of make the athletes choose, because it's a. What's. What's worth more, the prestige of a long running tournament or money. And I think it's money, and it seems to be proving that.

Proving that way, basically. Why is the sport of BJJ so poor? Why is everyone in it so broke? I mean, for the same reason you don't watch it. I think, you know, like, I think most average fans rather watch MMA.

It's a sport you only really watch if you participate in, whereas MMA is a sport that people enjoy to watch and have no interest in participating in it at all. So our audience is sort of capped, but the sport is. Is growing. So there is some money in it. Like, we make money off instructionals, seminars.

If you have some. Some funny jokes on Instagram, you know, you can make some money, too. So the money's there. The audience is there. Sometimes they'll sell ten to 15,000 seats at an arena, and obviously the streaming rides, so there is money there.

It just, in competition, doesn't really funnel back to the athletes. Why? That's the question, right? They said that these events are non profitable. Who's they?

Who's they? Tournament organizers for liability, of which you are now. I've now become the sleazy cabal. I've become the sleazy from Oda. But my point will be to try and prove that you can do it and you can compensate the athletes.

That'll be my point with this tournament. Yeah. So what do the existing tournament runners say? Like, daddy needs a new car, or. Well, that's it.

So, I don't know. I don't. I mean, I don't think they're taking the money. I think it's just they use it in places that we don't need fireworks, you know, like the over the top production, expensive arenas when we're not there yet. Those sort of things.

Like. I mean, like to rent a place like T Mobile, I believe is $2 million. Has someone done an event there? Is that where the next ADCC is? That's where the next ADCC is.

So we went and booked the old ADCC venue for basically the same weekend. They'll still have the opportunity to watch ADCC finals. It will be Friday, Saturday. They'll be Saturday, Sunday. I wanted to do that for two reasons, so that the fans could watch the finals on Sunday and so I could enjoy Las Vegas on Saturday night.

Chris Williamson
So it's way less of an exciting conspiracy. If the main reason that the money can't get funneled down to athletes is that, like, entrepreneurial incompetence? Yeah, I would imagine so. Because it's like. I feel like if you can sell 15,000 seats, there should be some profit.

What's the sort of ticket price? I mean. I mean, obviously, resale's got nothing to do with them, but in terms of the value, some of the resales are $7,000. Perhaps, maybe not anymore, I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of entrepreneurs in the sport.

Craig Jones
Like, I work on a ton of things. You know, like, one thing, for example, that you might be interested in is sunglasses. So we've re engineered the sunglasses, and I think you enjoy this. Right. I want to see if you can notice there's an extra special feature.

Have you ever been in a situation where you've desired both sunglasses and a tiny spoon at the same time?

Chris Williamson
Where's the tiny spoon? On the end?

Craig Jones
So, obviously, me as an athlete, very important to monitor my sugar content. So when I have a coffee, I want to put in a micro dose of sugar straight into my coffee, and that spoon is the perfect tool to do that.

So these are the sort of ideas that I utilize to get funding for these events. You know, you're obscene. You're like a menace. You're a menace to everything. Shout out to Oscar and frank, obviously.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying to disrupt everything, you know, jiu jitsu, sunglasses, whatever I can, you know, why? So just going back to the sort of state of brazilian jiu jitsu, you don't need to be a fan of it to know that it's very popular. It is kind of the bedrock that underlies much of UFC and much of UFC success, like wrestling, striking BJJ, or ground game grappling stuff is. Given that BJJ, I think, is the final, maybe wrestling as well, but it doesn't have quite the same heritage.

Chris Williamson
From a martial arts perspective, when you think martial arts, you're probably thinking, like, karate, maybe some sort of kickboxing style thing. And BJJ, given that BJJ is probably the most prominent, popular one of that, is it kind of making all martial arts seem a bit lame? I think so. I think martial arts are kind of lame. You know what I mean?

Craig Jones
Like, they just are lame, but they are fun, you know? So, like, I think jujitsu has become a little more cool recently. It's a very cool sport. Luckily, we've stolen some celebrities that enjoy participating in the sport. You know what I mean?

That helps us a ton. And when we can get super fights with UFC guys, that really helps us. But I think jiu jitsu is cool. Cause it's a hobby you can do where you're not gonna take brain damage. And I think that's the most fun about it.

That's why a lot of, like, business execs, CEO's, obviously anonymous, rich sources of funding, enjoy the sport because they don't want to take head trauma, but they like some form of combat sport. They still need to be able to function mentally. But I don't want to feel like a pussy. Exactly. Yeah.

They want to get some aggression out without real long term consequences, I guess, to the brain. Yeah. Just go back to explaining to me, for people that don't know the sort of mentality that is attracted to brazilian jiu jitsu, especially in the upper echelons of the sport. Ah. So, I mean, the biggest determining factor for success would probably be some level of autism.

That's very important for a singular focus in this sport. Usually we can correlate social skills with your abilities in the sport. The higher those social skills are, it diminishes really, your ability to physically perform in jiu jitsu that's wasted in this sport. That's what you'd see if you were to talk to most people on the jujitsu mounts. But then really the great equalizer would be steroids.

If you give these guys steroids because we don't test not enough money under the test, that actually gives these people with poor social skills a lot of confidence. And those are really the people that run the sport. If you could give them a steroid that also allowed them to maintain eye contact, do you think that that would decrease their ability in the sport massively? Well, I mean, that's why I regret the sunglasses being clear. Like, it would be good if they couldn't show that they were hiding eye contact, you know?

So that's a future endeavor. It definitely seems to be when you look from the outside. I've spent, what, 90 minutes on Christmas day watching your guys vlog around Japan. Oh, yeah? Which I thought was fantastic.

Chris Williamson
That was so much fun. I know your favorite part. Which bit? The vending machine. The vending machine.

Do you want to explain to people what you did, what you found in Japan? Well, I mean, that's what I like to do when I'm traveling around. If I hear about something a bit weird, I'm going to investigate. I consider that a bit of journalistic integrity, you know, and really a personal interest. This one was Japan.

Craig Jones
There was always the thing that people sold used underwear in vending machines. I personally sold used underwear on onlyfans. But in terms of using the vending machine to distribute those, I think that's probably a much more efficient system. And they had variations of those underwear. I can't remember actually what the variations were.

One of them was period blood. That was the one I selected. But there were varying ages of also those panties. And we found that in a basement of a five or six story sex store. So, I mean, I started at the top, I worked my way down, and we found in the basement.

I bought it thinking, I don't know what I was thinking, but I didn't think it would smell like it smelled and still described the smell exactly as you'd anticipate but a little bit stronger. But we opened it up outside. Like, I immediately smelt the ball and it was sealed in plastic and it still smelled terrible. It opened like there was a toy inside. And then when we went outside and we took it out of the plastic.

It was. It had a radius around me. The smell radiated. And the problem is, there was a terrorist attack in Japan, and there's not a lot of trash cans. So once I committed to opening this, it was very difficult to find.

It took me 15 minutes to find somewhere to dispose of it. So I had to walk around Tokyo, and, like, even my teammates were keeping a distance from me like that. That smelled so bad. So that would actually be a really great solution for any brazilian jiu jitsu athlete who doesn't want to have to have any social contact or make eye contact with another person, to kind of have this permanently on them at all times as a safety perimeter. That's true.

It's actually a good idea, I think, if you were a celebrity, to see how committed the fans were to getting a photo with you. Have you seen, there's a special kind of anti mosquito device, and you kind of turn it on. It lights a tiny little blue flame, and it makes this orb kind of like that. And you see these really committed mosquitoes, and they'll fly toward it, and they'll. And they'll really struggle, and then they get super close, and then they die.

Chris Williamson
That would kind of be the equivalent. That would work as well. That would work as well. I've always thought about this. This is probably a joke in very poor taste, right?

Craig Jones
It's like, I travel around, I train, and people try to kill me at every gym I go to, and they really want to roll with me no matter what. So, like, some gyms I go to, I'll be like, guys, like, I've got staff Ringworm, and they're still committed. And I've always thought, how committed are they? If I were to tell one of them I had HIV, would they still ask for their ounce? That's the ultimate test.

I think that would achieve a similar thing. Craig Jones and got HIV in Thailand. Like, he got a great t shirt. Yeah, you got something to remember the trip by. You know, that's how you didn't get.

Chris Williamson
A lasting memory going back to your new competition. Why is it owned by a nonprofit? Jujitsu doesn't make a profit, so we figured, why not make it a non profit? But we're going to turn it into, I mean, we're using the money to donate to charity or charitable endeavors. We showed you before the show a little video.

Craig Jones
Yeah, we'll chug it up now. Obviously, very serious thing we're doing there, but, yeah, travel show, traveling around, helping sort of underprivileged kids through jiu jitsu and stuff. Obviously, there's some jokes in there, but we are really doing something good. What are the causes that you're giving the money to? Well, anything in sort of like, we gave some of the athletes the choice, so Fion Davies was one of the first athletes that signed and she wanted to donate a portion of the ticket sales to the people in Gaza.

So we're like, yep, go for it. So, like, in terms of the tournament, we'll give some of them the choice, but also use it to fund some personal documentaries and stuff. Like, obviously, I've been traveling around to some crazy places and also want to do some good. We're just in the Philippines. We're able to help some.

The kids eat Jollibee. They love Jollibee out there. Like a fa. It's a crazy fast food place where they have both fried chicken and spaghetti on the same plate. That's fantastic.

Actually, you think that'd be in America. That's. But I don't think it is. Everyone wants to know where you got the money from. You keep on giving different answers to where you got the money from.

Chris Williamson
Is the donor, is the job of that is just keep source of money anonymous? Yeah, I mean, it's like, obviously there's going to be a lot of speculation, that's fine. But the guy donating, he wants to remain anonymous because people are going to bombard him, asking him for money, asking him for different things. You know, he prefer to stay anonymous. And it allows me to be a little mysterious with the source of money.

Craig Jones
You know, like, obviously I've been to Ukraine. It's a good joke. Everyone thinks the wasted american taxpayer is over there. Maybe I went over there and found some, you know, I don't know. ADCC is the sort of incumbent, prestigious competition happens every two years.

Chris Williamson
How did they fuck it so badly? How? I mean, I don't know. I think just like, I think most people's heart is always in the right place, you know what I mean? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Craig Jones
I just think they wrongly assumed that they could maintain the same purse they've had since day one and continue it as the sport grew. And it's like if we went from a basketball stadium with maybe one to 200 people there, to now selling out 10,000 plus seat arenas, to knowing the streaming rights for this event are obviously going to be a large figure, too. Like, it doesn't make sense to me how the grapplers pay cannot change at least some token gesture amount. You know what I mean? Like, it was ten k in 99.

It's ten k in 2024. Despite now it's a popular event. People flow in. That's the who's purse. Ten K.

That's the prize money to win four matches at ADCC. And you get the same money to just show up. And $1. $1. We threw $1 on top.

I contributed that dollar personally, but. So that's a total of what? Like, there's 32 fighters. I threw $32 into the pool. You know, that's very charitable of you.

Very giving, generous and tax deductible.

That's important for the nonprofit. So I watched one of the tackets do a video last night, and my housemate helped do some conditioning work for them, and he said that ever since he's known both of them, their only goal has been to go to ADCC. All I want to do, that's the dream. They grew up watching the videos. I think they've been training since they were four years old.

Chris Williamson
I said something insanely young. He then wins ADCC trials, grueling event trials. He had to face some top level. Competition and then decides to abscond from ADCC to come and do your event. Instead for the Craig Jones invitational.

Craig Jones
Yeah, I mean, that just says, you know, like, again, people say ADCC is the Olympics of our sport. The Olympics. Everyone around the world knows what an Olympic gold medal means. Olympics is universal around all countries of the world. A UFC title, I consider the same thing.

ADCC. No one knows what ADCC is, has no intrinsic value unless you're already involved in the sport. So that's the way I see it, is really. The prestige isn't enough to keep guys like the tacket brothers in there when they could potentially win 100 times the prize money. And we're going to stream it free on YouTube.

So in terms of how many eyes are going to be on it, going. To be much more exposure, growth of platform. Do you think ADCC will ban anyone who doesn't compete there to come and compete at yours? Do you think that in future they're just not going to be allowed back or they won't get another invite? I don't think so, because I think that would just be a bad look.

I think it would be bad. It wouldn't make business sense to do that. What I think, and I think they've said this, is basically that if you won the trials, or if you were an invitee and you elected to my event, then you just have to win the trials again, which guys like the Tacker brothers don't care. They're young. They're like, oh, we'll give this a crack.

And ADCC will always be there. And they're like, they're happy to do the trials again. They're happy to earn their place again. We'll just wait another two years. Have you heard anything from inside of the ADCC camp about what the response has been like to you doing this?

No, but I can't imagine it's positive, you know, but it's interesting. It's a bad day when you wake up to that Instagram post. He's probably like, who the fuck gave this asshole some money? You know? I think that's probably the energy.

Chris Williamson
Yeah, it's nice that people who have insane ideas are usually limited by their resources, and then it's a big problem when they have enough money to be able to do what they want, as. Is evident by, if you combine having nothing to lose with spending someone else's money, big things can happen.

My God. Yeah. So what I found particularly interesting about that Tackett situation was it just shows how attractive. I mean, a million dollars is attractive to anybody. Right?

Like, it doesn't matter, but that to show the purse being bigger than to win four matches and then, you know, 100 times more to actually be able to win the whole thing. Is it a million dollars for under 85 and over 85? So it's 280 kilos, over 80 kilos million. Yep. And then no second place.

Craig Jones
I'm punishing the only medal I could get. So the difference between. Difference between first and second, 990,000. So, like, I think that's cool. I'm also scared about the 989,999.

Exactly. But I'm scared about the risk of injury, because what guy with no money is going to tap when it's a million on the line? So hopefully some of that ten k they spend on health insurance go to a new knee. Yeah, I mean, you'd lose it, I guess. I mean, someone would for a million, they lose it.

They don't tap for less. Guys at ADCC don't tap for the potential to win ten k. How much. Is that driving money? I see on UFC, the sort of older videos of the guys, Conor McGregor, like 60 G's, baby, all of that stuff.

Chris Williamson
Just how much a fight is driven by money in that way, because I think from the outside, you think professional athlete probably got sponsorships, probably got all of these different sources of income, and yet it's evident that money is a big source of stress for guys that are in the sport. Yeah, I think people just want to have enough money to not worry about having to earn money, you know what I mean? Especially as an athlete. Athlete. You're like a stripper, you got a shelf life, you know, you better make the money while you can.

Craig Jones
That's the way I see it. So it's like these guys want that opportunity. The red rose would care to disagree about the shelf life of strippers. That's true. It's amazing what lighting can do.

But, yeah, I mean, they just want to. I mean, tackets are pretty noble. Like, when I spoke to them, it wasn't about their money, it was about their family money. Basically giving back to their family for taking care of them for so long, which is pretty noble. What you really want to do is put two people into the same category together and then just have a cartel agreement to say, we'll just split it at the end.

Chris Williamson
That's twice as much chance of being able to win. Yeah. And basically there's only. I mean, if you're a blood relative, that's the only reason I'd allow you to, I think, split the money. But that match at the end better be real because if anyone from that are just friends, make it to the final, like.

And they reconsidered that for sure. I'm going to warn them and I'm probably warning them right now. It's like, this isn't 50k going to your account. If we send you a million, 500 moves and we hear about it, it's going to be built into the contract. That's like, that's really not good for the legitimacy of the event.

Craig Jones
So probably imagine legal consequences to that. You've got to keep the event pure, which, I mean, obviously it is about purely sport and not entertainment, which is why I've decided to participate in the event and rebuild the battle of the sexes and decide to take on a six foot, 4250 pound, eleven time world champion female grappler of the sport. Who's that? Gabby Garcia. In other news, this episode is brought to you by.

Chris Williamson
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Craig Jones
I would say that's one of the main driving both directions sometimes. Depends what hour of the day it is. But definitely, yeah. I mean, she's just the most accomplished grappler, female grappler ever. I mean, maybe really, if you combine, sex is maybe the most accomplished grapple ever.

Me personally, just a dude that's never won anything. And I remember one event, a girl called her out a flo grappling event at WNO, and she did some crazy interview after where she was like, anyone calls me out, I'll take that match. I was like, will ya? Let's do it. And then we had this big build up.

We had like an arm wrestling match. She won the arm wrestling match. And now after two and a half years of foreplay, it's finally coming to fruition. How strong was she in the arm wrestling match? Stronger than me.

Yeah, that's for sure. So, I mean, we're gonna find out. She is outside of your weight category. How much heavier is she than you? I mean, she's real particular about her weight, so I better be careful here.

But let's just say that's a, that's a large, strong, muscular woman. You know, I'm gonna do this match. I mean, many guys would be, would pay to wrestle around with her. You know, you're doing it for free. I'll do it for noble purposes.

I'll do it for charity.

Chris Williamson
What is the rule set between you and Gabby? We're going to do three five minute rounds, 1 minute break in between. We changed the rules up for the event because we wanted to appeal to MMA audiences because that's a broader portion of the general public. So it's like we want to still keep the jiu jitsu scoring kind of as it is because grapplers don't like especially, we're only two months out. They don't like a big change.

Craig Jones
They don't want to have to propel, prepare for something crazy. So we'll do basically in jiu jitsu, you score points. So, like, we'll have the judges on the side sort of score points along the traditional scoring systems. And if there's a four point differential, we'll represent that as MMA scoring. Like a ten eight.

It's a close around ten nine. We can take a point easy. And we're going to put it in a structure inspired by karate combat. Karate combat. Have a square pit.

They call it the pit. We're inspired by this because a lot of problems with other tournaments is elevated platform guys either crash off the stage or, like, it's actually pretty dangerous. Or if the mats are just on the ground, they crash into the judges table. Some people think that's cool. It's dangerous for the athletes.

So the karate combat guys really came up with this angled wall. There's nowhere to go. There's very few referee sort of interactions. So we're inspired by that. And we spent a lot of money to set up a rectangular, like, basically a much bigger version of that.

So we don't want to have much bigger, like, more space, like rectangle and 30 by 40. And we're calling this the alley because first and foremost, I believe you only go into a back alley for two reasons. Fighting or fucking. Sometimes both.

Chris Williamson
Just to loop back to Gabby Garcia for a second. Is there an adjustment to your game plan that you need to do, given that this is a MF? I mean, I don't train much now, so I don't anticipate me training too hard for this one. Well, I mean, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see what happens. Like, a lot of people out there really think, like, oh, this big woman's gonna take you out and it's like, we'll see.

I just. I have no idea about the capacity of a woman. A female BJJ fighter rated for strength. Like, if you make them the same size, make them similar sort of strength as a guy. Does a Q shaped pelvis mean that they can get into rubber guard more efficient?

I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Are there things that girls can do structurally, biomechanically that guys can't? Yeah, I mean, now you're concerned me with the thoughts of what she can do. You know, obviously, I have to subscribe to onlyfans to really get into detail there, but she doesn't look too flexible.

Craig Jones
But we will find out. We will test her flexibility come August 16, 17th.

Chris Williamson
Okay, so you've got a huge, big rectangle alley. The back alley. Yeah.

Rather than going for a trial style selection process, you just used your sort of editorial ability to try and get. People to lure them in. Yeah, I mean, we. First and foremost, no one believes anything I say, so we had to kind of really emphasize that it was real. It was very hard to convince people that this was really happening.

Craig Jones
And that's where the tackets are good. Cause those are just good kids that really like, for them to be a part of it legitimizes the whole thing, you know? It's not. We didn't announce a celebrity first. We didn't announce, like, someone.

Chris Williamson
People like Luke Rockhold or whatever. Yeah, we saved Rockhold for a little bit later, but, yeah, I mean, right now we've got the tacket. Nikki Ryan, Joseph Chen, Nikki Rod. We've got Luke Rockold. Yeah.

Craig Jones
William and Andrew Tackett. We got Fion Davies. We're trying to work on a super fight for her. And that's it. But obviously, I'm talking to everyone we're working on.

Chris Williamson
What's your inbox like right now? I mean, yeah, it's sadly more male grapplers than usual. You know, it's busy, man. I've been on the phone non stop. Hey.

Craig Jones
Just haven't explained the rules, having to prove that it's real. But, I mean, it's funny when you throw a million dollars on the table, some people that didn't like you are suddenly like, brother Porha, let's talk.

Chris Williamson
Wow. It's a. It's interesting to think how big of a deal this is in brazilian jiu jitsu. And I think this is what I meant before. The sport itself holds limited interest to me.

I once watched some super fight match that lasted for 45 minutes, and one of the guys gave up at the end. Oh, yeah, yeah. But everybody knows drama. Everyone can get into. Oh, this is like an incumbent thing, and then there's a new thing, and there's this game of rivalry, and you need to make a value judgment, which.

Where do I want to be? Do I want to be here? Do I want to be there? Like, that's something that anybody can understand. Narrative out the Kardashians or whatever.

And that makes it, I think, more compelling, and it creates characters, and it creates intrigue. Yeah, I mean, I think it's good. I mean, competition is good. It is. Even between competitions.

Craig Jones
Exactly. I think it's really good. You know, it forces both events to have to do something more, contribute more. Obviously, we have to. We have a lot to prove for this.

There's a lot on the line. If it turns in the fire festival, I'm going into hiding in Kazakhstan or something. But isn't Billy McFarlane fighting at karate combat this weekend? Is that this week? You know, yeah, I think the guy that founded Fyre festival, someone told me, that's right.

He's meant to have a fight. Is this true? Because someone told me this the other day, and I was like, the guy that was in jail for Fyre festival is fighting at karate combat on Thursday in Austin. I mean, believe it or not, that's actually our event organizer. I should know what you mean, Billy.

Chris Williamson
He's the guy that funded it. He's the dude with the million dollars. I'm sure you do it at a discounted rate.

As long as blink 182 play. Would you let Gordon fight if he said that he wanted to come over? I'd let anyone do it. Yeah. You know, obviously, I got the custom gold Craig Jones invitational ring.

Craig Jones
He'd have to kiss, but for sure, I'd let him in. You know, what? If he said that he had to fight you, would you do it for a super fight? I mean, you've already got Gabby on the table. I think I got a bigger match.

You know, we're doing something. Crossing the mainstream. Battle of the sexes. You know, this is gender equality. Talk to me about Gordon's role as the figurehead for the sport, because he is super dominant.

Chris Williamson
The Lewis Hamilton a couple of years ago in f one, where didn't really seem like that much of a competition. Does this help to make it more interesting? Well, what I think is most funny about this. So Gordon, unquestionably best scrapper in the world, had many health issues, disappeared. He comes and goes.

Craig Jones
He battles health issues, comes back, competes, beats everyone. For sure. Beats everyone. But he's a controversial figure. Just, I mean, he says crazy shit online.

Like, he's got strong conservative political beliefs. But, I mean, if you were to look at his Instagram, it's a Facebook, dad republican page. You know what I mean? That's the sort of stuff he's sharing nonstop. And he's, I would say, money obsessed.

And I would say he's kind of. I would say insecure. You know, I think anyone that takes offense to jokes that are, like, light hearted, I find them a little insecure. Or, like, he bites. He bites all the time.

And, like, you would understand this. Americans take the bait. We roast each other. Like I've said worse things to my friends and relatives. And I've said about Gordon Ryan, but these guys take the bait, and that's the game for us.

You know, we love throwing something out. Someone overreacts. That's what I live for. That's. That's fun to me.

So it's like, Gordon, in terms of this tournament, this tournament is the ultimate bait because we're talking about free market competition. It's good. According to his political beliefs, we're talking about money, loves money. There's a hundred times more money in this. But he has to choose to stay with the old tournament or go to the tournament of someone he hates.

Chris Williamson
Does he hate you? I think so. Yeah, I think so. Do you hate him? I don't hate him.

Craig Jones
I love the. I love that he exists, you know? I love that he exists. It's entertainment, you know, I mean, we used to train together. We used to.

I wouldn't say we were friends. Like, we would train together. We wouldn't hang out after training or anything. So I think it's like we're training partners, weren't close friends.

Chris Williamson
How much of jiu jitsu culture do you think is downstream from Gordon and Jon and kind of that culture that they've created? Yeah, for sure. Massive influence, probably for the last seven, eight years. Massive influence on the sport. And they really broke new barriers by making Nogi more popular and more respective.

Craig Jones
Everyone used to do the gee, and the gee guys used to win most of the no gee tournaments. And then Danaher's crew came along as kind of no gee only guys and started to win, and they started to use new techniques. So it created a really cool story. John is like some serial killer that got away with it. He has a interesting, like, he wears rash guards all the time.

He has weird personality, you know, but it's, like, captivating. He's a philosophy professor originally or something, wasn't he? Yes. Yeah. So he.

He's got. I mean, obviously, with all the university and college, he can teach well, he knows how to teach people, you know, and he under. He's coached GSB, so he's a good coach. So, like, you throw in all these factors, and you create this empire that they have today. And, like, he even uses japanese terminology, you know, it's like, whether it's intentional or not, it's really good marketing.

Really good marketing. So lends sort of credibility and mystique a little bit to what's going on. Yeah, he takes what people are already doing. He teaches in a really high level way, changes the name a little bit. Really good.

Really good marketing. And obviously his students back up that with results. Yeah. If you didn't have a guy that was super dominant, it would just be a bloke using weird terms that weren't effective. Exactly.

And that's the funny thing is, like, he's like, he's like your cheesy martial arts character that you like. His personality should be that of a guy that's not a good coach because most of the time, guys like that with that eccentric personality, he's got injuries, so he never compete. He can't train. Like, guys like that in martial arts typically raise a lot of red flags, but his students produce good results. So it becomes this conundrum of, like.

Chris Williamson
The legitimate Stephen Seagal. Exactly. Yeah. It's like he has a Steven Seagal mythology about him, but the results back it up. What do you think Gordon will do?

Because if you rip the arse out of everyone that's competitive at ADCC, the legitimacy of the ADCC competition then goes away. What's left to do? He'll still do ADCC. Is that your. If you were to put money on the table, some of your big wads of cash?

Craig Jones
Yeah, yeah, that's not in my house anymore, for the record. Um, yeah, he will still do ADCC. It's, uh, it's funny, a lot of people like, uh, have loyalty to what they have accomplishments in. You know, like when Nogi started booming, a lot of the GI guys were worried that their accomplishments were suddenly going to be forgotten now, because if you create a new event with a new name, more prestigious titles, potentially 20 years, people will be like, what the fuck's that? You know?

Like, so there's always going to be pushback when something new comes in and steals. Well, not steals, but it just gives athletes the choice. So it's like, there's always going to be pushback. I mean, even Gordon's mom was in my inbox talking about how prestigious ADCC is. I know Gary Tonan's mom was commenting on some posts, and I was just like, I personally think your tournament's in trouble if your mom's defending it.

You know what I mean?

I'd kill my mom if she was defending my tournament online. I'd be like, hey, fucking tone it down. I'm 32 years old, can look after myself. Yeah, fucking hell. Yeah.

Chris Williamson
I think it's created a really fascinating story between the decision of this lineage and it asks, genuinely does. You might have to ask Jon for the answer, but it asks an interesting sort of philosophical question around what does prestige and lineage actually mean? Like, what are people in this sport for when there is something very sort of real and tangible placed in front of them, which is seven figures of cash. Yeah, it's life changing money. And like, one of Gordon's arguments was that, like, he's like a million dollars, that's easy to make.

Craig Jones
You know, he's like, do some 7 hours, sell some instruction. But the reality is, I mean, if you come from Brazil, you do have a disadvantage in the markets in which we make the most money because you have a language barrier. Sometimes these guys have visa barriers, you know, like, Gordon grew up in New Jersey, close to John Danaher. I'm not denying that he put in the work to get where he is, but that's lucky. That's lucky for me.

I grew up in Adelaide. I didn't even train with a black belt till purple belt. Like, I wasn't exposed. I just wasn't in the vicinity of a mind like John Danaher. To shape me from a younger age, I had to work a lot of jobs, side hustles, so underwear to get to where I am today.

And if I think about the Brazilians in the sport, they can win ADCC, but if they can't utilize a marketable style and they can't express themselves well in interviews, the idea of them making a million dollars is going to be very difficult. And even if they grew up in sort of poorer areas, they're not going to have access to people to teach them business skills, marketing skills. Those things are much more difficult for them. And a million us dollars going back to Brazil is going to go a long way. That's going to change their families lives.

So is a tangible, life changing amount of money for them. For Gordon, a million really is probably a million instructional sell, but the amount of people that do that, not many. So for him to criticize those guys for leaving the tournament that he's in, I think is kind of a bit unfair to those grapplers that need money. The issue that the Brazilians have with their communication barrier, their ability to use executive function, is actually probably the same of a lot of the more autistic athletes that are from America. That kind of levels the playing field in some way.

That's true. And I think obviously, COVID vaccine has swayed the level of autism in countries. That's the argument there. Do you know if the uptake in Brazil was higher or lower than usual? Because that kept giving it to me, but I couldn't increase it.

So I've capped out. That's why I'm retiring and going into promoting, you know? Well, no, you're not. You're coming in. You're like some football manager that also wants to step, like play.

Chris Williamson
A coach wants to step out under the field of play against a woman. Yeah. I mean, you run the tournament, you give yourself a favorable match. I think that's only fair, you know, and really test the waters of equality. True equality is fighting a woman, I think.

Craig Jones
And that's why we call our foundation the fair Fight foundation. There's no fairer fight than that, I think. What nationality, Gabby? Brazilian. Right.

Chris Williamson
Okay, so this is a meeting of. The Australia versus Brazil. Oh, fuck. Yeah, of course. Of course.

Yeah. It's interesting to think about how so many of the gains are accruing to just a couple of people at the very, very top of the sport, obviously, Gordon being one of them. What? Who else is. Is there anyone else in the sport where you think they're pretty flush?

They're having a good. Yeah, I mean, like, BJJ fanatics, our main source of income. And a lot of guys on there make good money, you know, like myself included. But it would be. I don't know, I'm not that financially driven.

Craig Jones
So it's like, I mean, even accomplishment. Like, I pursued those accomplishments to get those gold medals, obviously didn't get them, but, like, I'd rather have a legacy on the sport that I changed it for the better, for all the athletes. And I think if there's more money on the table, the matches will be more exciting. The guys who have more money to prepare for these matches will reach a higher level in the sport. So I think, like, it's best for everyone.

Some of the fans might complain that they bought tickets to one event and the athletes will be at the other. Again, our money from the tickets is predominantly going to charities. So it's like, if you've already got the flight, you've already got the hotel, you already got an ADCC ticket. Keep the ADCC ticket, buy a ticket of ours, it's going to go to charity. You're going to be able to see the ADCC finals.

If you wanted to watch both of our days, you could still watch the other tournament's finals. It's the best of both worlds. You're getting the biggest grappling weekend ever. What's the. So you've explained three five minute rounds, is that all?

And the final be five fives? Uh huh. So literally, like UFC style rules, try and reflect. Yeah. And how many rounds of fighting is there.

So it'll be like 16 people per division. So to win four. Four matches to win. Okay. Two on the first day, two on the next day.

Chris Williamson
Are you doing a super duper fight at the end and overall, between under and over? Yeah. I mean, that would be fun to do. I'm going to be like, hey, I need another million.

Craig Jones
That's why I'm going back to Ukraine. Hey, get some more plutonium. They got some missiles again. We'll take it back to Iran. Yeah.

Chris Williamson
Fucking hell. Presumably this is a tested federation. Then you're going to be making the sport clean along with giving it some money. Oh, yeah. I fully intend to test every athlete but myself.

Craig Jones
That's the fair. That's really fair. Gabi should be tested not just for chemical enhancement, but just for pure human biology. Suddy, something new's gone on. Like a specimen of something.

We need to see what it is, identify it, replicate it, create an army. She sells a lot of underwear, you know, like, does she really? Yeah. I don't know much about her. Can you explain?

I mean, she's just a giant, very attractive grappler that's fought in MMA and she's fought in Japan. She's had shows in Japan often criticized because she fought an old grandmother in Japan, you know, and a lot of people saw that and they said, that poor grandmother's getting beaten up by a giant woman. And I said, hey, that could be me. You know, there lies opportunity where other people see issues. Do you think that the removal of steroids from the sport of brazilian jiu jitsu for the people that don't know BJJ, is there any tested BJJ federation?

IBJF does some testing, yeah. Okay. I'm not too familiar with it, though.

Chris Williamson
Would the removal of steroids make BJJ more or less interesting?

Craig Jones
I don't know. I mean, prior was pride fighting. Championships was interesting spectacle in Japan. There was no testing there. I think the testing, all it does is give you legitimate big sponsors, you.

Chris Williamson
Know, because there's certain brands that don't want to be associated with the sport. Where everyone's undrugged. Exactly. Yeah. For me personally, I do have a local Texas TRT sponsorship.

Craig Jones
Sadly, when I post about it, no one believes I'm actually on steroids. That's the funny thing. No one believes anything I say. You think that's like a sort of skinny fat belt curse? Yeah, they're just like this guy.

If he's on steroids, they're not working. You know, they must be duds. Get your money back. I'm like, look at my blood pressure, brother. They're working.

Something's happening. What was that thing? Where were you? Were you in Tokyo or you were doing some sort of test and I think you got, one of the things that you won that weekend was highest blood pressure that. I don't have blood pressure.

Yeah. So, I mean, depends. I do have high blood pressure. I should get that fixed. Rogan was actually concerned about my blood pressure, which is in turn made me more concerned.

But, yeah, I mean, the doctors take, obviously, your blood pressure could be high sometimes before a match because you're a bit stressed out, be nervous. So, like, sometimes it's high. Mine's probably too high. I should fix that. But, well, as a man with a famously short gas tank, what does it take to become a winner in this sport, given that you have your sort of parameters of limitation?

Yeah, that's. Yeah, I mean, the gas tank is an issue, you know, but it's not an issue where there's enough financial compensation to fix it. I would argue, you know, maybe a million dollars on the line. I do some cardio work. Okay.

But generally speaking, man, I barely lift weights these days. I barely have time to train. I don't take it too serious at all, you know. In other news, this episode is brought to you by momentous. You are probably not having enough protein in your diet.

Chris Williamson
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So if you're not sure of the taste or you're just uncertain about this in general, you can buy it completely risk free. If you don't like it for any reason, they will give you your money back. Right now you can get up to 32% off by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to livemomentous.com modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's livemomentous.com, modernwisdom, and modernwisdom at checkout. That being said, you've had a pretty good run recently.

You and Phil Rowe had a pretty cool fight. I saw you do something else relatively spectacular recently, like trying to break down what it is that what makes you even close to the second best guy in the world? Like, what is it about your particular approach? Well, I mean, I don't know. There's a bit of luck involved, you know, strategy, I think it's a game of strategy, you know, like, I don't think.

Craig Jones
I think if you have the right strategy, you have the right skillset, and you pick the right opponents and you pick the right rule sets, there's always a path to victory that doesn't involve working harder. And I think if you leverage your name at the top of the sport to make the rule set that most appeals to you based on who the opponent is, to have that leverage is a huge factor in your success rate of the sport. So it allows me to work less and still have better results. Do you think that that's interesting, that BJJ seems to be a sport filled with people that are at least a little bit cerebral, that are interested in cognitive tasks and coming up with interesting strategies? I've seen some of the breakdowns on YouTube.

Chris Williamson
It's like an unbelievable level of autism that is being applied to the question in hand. Why is everyone else not doing that? I mean, good question. A lot of people are scared to market themselves, scared to put themselves out there. So I just think you just, like, people talk about that, like, oh, I don't like doing social media and stuff, and it's like, I mean, no one does.

Craig Jones
You have to roll the dice sometimes. It's not gonna always come up good. You know, like, I've thrown some jokes out there that have fucking missed hard, but they forget them if they like you. They forget the misses, they remember the hits, you know, hopefully. So people just gotta put themselves out there more to market themselves in jiu jitsu.

The bigger following you have, the more leverage you have with promoters, and none of us are in exclusive contracts with any organizations, so you can massively pit them against each other to really leverage your participation in their events. Is this invitational just a one off at the moment? Have you got plans to bring it back next year? Are you just going to wait and see what the post coital pillow talk feels like? Yeah, true.

I mean, let's see. Obviously, if the event goes very poorly, there might be a sex tape with my opponent released at a later date to really recoup some of that money. But that's how committed I am to the event. You know, I would do that. I'm serious.

I'll do that. We've already filmed it, but yeah, the plan is to do it every year. We want to do it every year. Wow. So it would be twice as frequently as ADCC as well.

Chris Williamson
I wonder, just thinking about that sort of from a game theory perspective, I wonder whether doing it every year would encourage athletes to do CJI, ADCC, CGI, ADCC. I wonder whether they would do it that way or whether it's just, this is lots of bites at the apple of winning a million bucks. I think that would be. I think. And it's going to offset it so much because of the amount of money.

Craig Jones
And we're going to learn so much about this. Right? So, like, if I compete on an event, they don't tell me how many people watch it. Those are pay per views they've sold online or whatever. They don't tell me how many new subscribers they get.

Like, this is all privileged information, I understand from a business perspective, but they're not giving me certain tools of leverage. Like, I don't get to find out my metrics to further negotiate my position in the sports. That's one of the reasons I want to do it free on YouTube, is we're going to see transparency. Yeah. We're going to see how many people are watching, you know, like, for ADCC would have to be the most viewed grappling event.

But I don't even believe the information is shared with the promoters of ADCC. That's all privileged information for the people that bought the streaming rights. So for me personally, obviously it's going to be inflated because it's free and we're going to involve some MMA fighters, some mache super fights. So it's going to be enhanced, but we're really going to see how many people watch grappling. And I think it's a significant amount of money, given the amount of people that are traveling from around the world to Vegas to watch the tournament.

And I want to have that information. And also, YouTube's going to show you the peaks and valleys. So who are the interesting fights? Who are the boring fights? We will know that metrics of information, I think it's going to translate athlete wise, pretty similar to instructional sales.

I do think there's going to, there's a little bit of a correlation between how many instructionals you sell and how many fans want to watch you compete? You can just drive traffic. So I really want to. I really fascinated. I think that information's awesome.

When you said about drug testing, I kind of wanted to do it from a research perspective. I didn't want to punish them, but I would love to know. Everyone says that it's the sport where everyone's juiced out of their minds. It'd be great to have anonymous drug testing where we see what they're taking to just aggregate. Yeah.

Just from, like, that's. Are we going to. The average testosterone level is 1500. Yeah. Like, we would have anonymous names, but it's like, who had the highest?

You know what I mean? Like, what's. Athlete B was the one that came in with a 2002 testosterone level. Yeah. And I think they're pumping crazy amounts.

Chris Williamson
Talk to me about that. Talk to me. Just, like, how aggressive do you think the uses of peds in BJJ? I think it's pretty aggressive. I think, again, there's not great financial conversation from the events, but, like, in terms of instructional sales, selling seminars and just.

Craig Jones
They want the medals. They want the clout from the medals. So there's no drug testing. Generally, people are going to take some. I myself put out my stack, obviously.

I'm sponsored by steroid or TRT anti aging clinic in Texas, but in testosterone. Yeah, but I put my stack out because I also like, just saying no doesn't really work with drugs. You know, it's like, you just say no, kids take it anyway. I'd rather at least to the next generation, let them know what I'm taking so they don't imagine it's up here and they don't take dangerous amounts. I at least want to be like.

Chris Williamson
Is it a relatively sort of therapeutic dose that you take? Yeah. So 200 or 250 a week. We get spicy with some anavire from matches coming up, and then real low dose decker. But that's, that's really it.

Craig Jones
And I want to. I don't want the kids or the next generation to speculate. I don't want them to think my. I'm taking a gram a week or something. I think it's good to let them know what I'm taking so they can see, hey, well, he was the second.

Chris Williamson
Best in the world. I could be the second best in the world on this fucking shitty little stack, you know? So I think it's like a harm reduction strategy rather than a just say no. Have you got any idea how much further people push the drug? Oh, yeah, I've been around athletes that pump some crazy levels, you know, like, you got the ultimate bro science, guys.

Craig Jones
Like, I remember one famous athlete had. I mean, it's more than who you think, you know. I know one famous athlete had some health issues. And when the doctor said, hey, what are you taking? They didn't know what they'd taken, but their bro science that was administering it to them said, hey, I just look at this person every day.

I know what they need, and I'm just like, that's wild. That's like some voodoo doctor telekinesis. Yeah, like, holds the stack back from them, doesn't tell them what it's given them. It's like, so there's a lot of crazy shit out there when it's shrouded in secrecy and they're gonna do it anyway. They're left to find idiots to administer it, you know?

So it's almost like it was very. Much the wild west. There's kind of. I guess this is like the meeting of the sort of more old school martial arts side stuff, which is this mystique and kind of magic and secret moves and stuff with a new world of evidence based something. But the mystique and the magic is supposed to stay within the art form of the sport, and the evidence based stuff is supposed to stay within the blood work and the testing and the pharmaceuticals.

Chris Williamson
Like, you don't get it the other way around. Yeah, I mean, I'm all for full transparency, you know, like, I'm almost. I'm honest about every single thing I do. Almost too honest. But because some of it comes across a joke, most people just don't believe me.

Craig Jones
But, like, most of the stuff I put out there is true. What? Have there been any spicy substances that you've heard about fighters using before matches? Given that anything's on the table, maybe I need to smoke weed before I go out there. I don't think that ketamine would be a particularly useful.

Nose beers give you a little perk up, you know? Is cocaine a performance enhancer? When it comes to the sport of brazilian jiu jitsu? I think it's a bit of a wake up, you know, like a strong shot of coffee, you know? I mean, at the end of the day, it's just a simulator.

If you take too much, you're gonna probably guess out. And maybe that's why I have a bad guess. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, people take crazy shit. Everyone has different stuff they take.

I've been around guys who took magic mushrooms before the match and shit. And I'm just like, what are you doing? You know, like, just, people will do anything to get an edge. Are you worried about. I appreciate what you said that, you know, you put your puny, wimpy little stack out there as like that.

Chris Williamson
You know, you don't need to sort of go too hard and heavy, but, you know, downstream from you and a lot of the other guys in the sport are young kids. Like one of the Tackett brothers started when he was four years old. If you think steroids or jujitsu now, that's why he's so good. The bastard. Yeah.

Are you worried about sort of influence on the new generation, whether it be nose beers or keep jiu jitsu gay or the steroids? Yeah, the nose beers is not good. Hey, because you know what's funny is I make jokes about that and the kids do the same. I saw you next to a kid at the UFC thing. I know.

Craig Jones
The problem is I tried to stop doing it, but it's the parents that want it, you know? And, like, we even gave it a bad name. I was calling it the white powder. Like white powder, you know, the. But yeah, I don't know.

It's not great, you know, but like, I guess it starts the conversation. But I always say your kids shouldn't be looking up to me. You know, I didn't win anything. Fucking send them in the right direction, you know? Do you feel or do you think that you're going to feel a bit of a different kind of responsibility now being a event organizer in some regard?

Chris Williamson
Does that come with any change in the way that you need to operate yourself? I mean, that's a good question. I think basically running a nonprofit probably influences that a little bit, but. Well, I'm not really, I'm not really running. I'm just helping run the tournament, but, yeah, I mean, for sure.

Craig Jones
But I've already had these conversations with sponsors where sponsors have said to back down on certain things and I've turned the money away. You know, like, even with my instructional titles, I keep a controversial title because I'd rather be authentic. I'd rather have a smaller, more dedicated audience than a broader. What are some of the names of the instructionals you've released? All right, so this one was spicy, actually.

So there's a move in jiu jitsu called a false reap. It's a false reap. It's a type of way to enter a leg lock. Reaping in the IBGF is an illegal move. It's something where you bring your leg across the knee and it could potentially injure someone's knee.

However, in the IBGF, a lot of people, because they want to win, they'll do anything to win. They'll try to force the guy to make it look like they're doing an illegal move. And it's sort of, they were reaped, but falsely. But I brought out an instructional on the false reap, and I called it false reap accusations, but it was really a strong, it was instructional about the reap. I remember fanatics called me and they said, bro, can we change the title on this one, please?

And I said, what about false reap allegations? But I mean, it fits in with IBGF, like, DQ narrative. And I just thought it'd be funny, but you gotta take a risk, you know, like, someone's gotta do it. What was that one that you did about bulls? Something to do with balls to, balls to the wall?

Yeah. Cause when you defended against wall wrestling, you really slamming your balls. Well, I'm on TRT. Mine are pretty small. Some of they're not hitting the wall, but generally speaking, a clean athlete is going to have some big balls.

Chris Williamson
What have you learned since being around the UFC at the top flight over the last few months? I mean, obviously just the level of professionalism of the athletes, the teams. Volkanovski is unique just because, like, he's almost like a character is too good to be true. Like, it's like you meet celebrities and sometimes you're disappointed by who they are as people. Volkanovsky is such a good person.

Craig Jones
He makes me disappointed in who I am as a person. You know, he's just like, who he portrays himself as is exactly who he is. I guess that's probably true of me, actually. So people won't be disappointed, but, yeah, being around those guys, you realize, again, the financial compensation is much greater at the highest level. So we're going to have much more professional teams.

Like, obviously, most of us guys have managers. Most jujitsu guys don't have managers because you call them up, you'd be like, hey, how'd you like 10% of a $100? You know, you're not getting a manager in jiu jitsu. So they have the whole team, striking coach, wrestling coach, grappling coach. They just have an orchestrated, coordinated effort towards one individual winning this next nutrition.

Chris Williamson
Conditioning mindset, breath work, all of this stuff. Yeah, all the things I don't do. Yeah. So, I mean, it is good to see what can be done at that level. And Volkanovski takes it so serious.

What do you think of him as an athlete? Oh, incredible. Incredible. It's gonna be interesting to see what he does next. I want him to have a grappling match.

Craig Jones
I think we'll probably try and get him a grappling match on our event, but it might clash with something else that I can't say, but not him fighting. But I want to see him take a grappling match because I grapple with him, and he's like, he's a tough round. So, like, my dream would be to see him perform in a grappling competition. If he has to wait it out for a tapore rematch or something like that. If he wants to wait it out because he was knocked out for whatever reason, I think grappling match would keep his mind occupied.

Chris Williamson
That's a good question. How well are you person who focuses on BJJ or Chen or one of the rods or whatever, how well would they be able to hold their own against some of the best UFC fighters just in grappling? How good are mixed martial artists at grappling? At just grappling? Yes.

Craig Jones
I mean, they're really good. Like, I put Luke Rockhardt in the tournament because he's really good. Like, I trained with him. That's, like, elite level grappler, and he hits a few things there. Obviously, former UFC champion.

He's got a good following. He's a fun guy, and he could surprise some people. Like, I wouldn't put a UFC fighter in the tournament unless I believe they had a chance to do something. And that's why I think Luke Rockhold's fascinating. Cause people are gonna be like, oh, he's not gonna do anything.

And it's like, I've trained with him. He could shock some people, you know, in terms of MMA, though, MMA is so brutal, and it's like, it sort of. If you've never gone to an event live and sat close to the action, I think most people don't realize how brutal and savage it is. Oftentimes a guy gets knocked out. The camera's on the winner.

Camera's not on the guy slumped in the corner. Like, I was there when Bryce Mitchell got knocked out by Josh Emmett. He's unconscious for a long, long, long time. You know, it's like. It's kind of traumatic, and it's really traumatic for the coaches, too.

Like, again, these guys are your friends. So it's like, I don't go lightly into joining a guy's camp, you know, because it's like, that is your putting. Some of your heart into this guy's well being. Yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal.

It's an unforgiving world, and it's like, it's traumatic for the fighters, it's traumatic for his friends and family, his coaches. Like, it's not just about winning or losing. It's about their health, well being, psychological well being. So it's like, it is a big thing to corner a guy. I didn't learn that until I did ultimate fighter.

The first time I cornered an MMA fight was on ultimate Fighter. And we're talking about guys that are so broke, they got no money, they're not in the UFC, and they're fighting. They're putting it all on the line, their health on the line for really not much money. And that was really, you feel like, obviously, one of my grapplers loses. That sucks.

But generally speaking, he's not hurt. Walk it up. Yeah, they're out of there. So, like, there's such an investment of energy and really emotion because you're so invested not just in them winning for their own financial wellbeing, but just for their health. You're like, man, I gotta take this serious.

Chris Williamson
What is sitting in the corner of a UFC fight watching Volk and some guy, like, are you ready? Are you ready? Like, what's that moment like as you sort of watch them walk together? Oh, I mean, there's so much anxiety. So much anxiety going in, and it's like, I'm the grappling coach.

Craig Jones
I'm not a striking coach, but so, like, I'm keeping time. I'm holding the bucket when they're on the feet, you know, so. But, like, I don't full. I don't fully understand. I know what they've spoken about strategy wise for the stand up portion.

So I'm sort of, like, trying to see, but I don't know a lot about striking at all. So I'm really trying to listen to them, see what they're saying, see what they're feeling, but it's. Yeah, it's really. It's real scary. And Voggs, like, I was with Vogs where it was like he just kept doing things people didn't think he could do.

You know what I mean? It's, like, shocking, you know, like what he did to Holloway in the third fire, getting out of Ortega's submissions and stuff like that, so that you build him up yourself as this invincible figure, but no one's invincible. You're in the game long enough, you're going to get cracked. You know, like, very few make it out and retire at the right time. And I'm not saying Vogue should retire, but I'm saying guys like Khabib got out before that happened to him.

And you never know when it's going to happen, but if you're in there long enough, it will happen. So it's like, it's both traumatic to see as a friend, but also it's like, it shocks you. You're like, oh, this guy was invincible. I don't think about that. I never thought about the.

Chris Williamson
You know, you think about how traumatic it is for the fighter. You realize that the friends and family are invested in that way. But I never thought about the corner man and what they need to do. They need to go away and have a week of emotional reflection on. Imagine if you gave the wrong advice, or imagine if you missed something you didn't.

Craig Jones
The guy hit him with something like you didn't expect. You know, like, when I was preparing folks for Islam, I was, like, looking for everything on the ground because it's like, that guy's, like a mythical figure in terms of wrestling and grappling. So it's like, you don't want to leave sort of no stone unturned. So a lot of pressure. There's a bunch of compilations on YouTube of bad corner advice from UFC.

Chris Williamson
I think a video got released pretty recently that I watched maybe, like, five things. One of them where you're four rounds up, you can coast in this round. It's like, no, you won't. You were like, three down. You know, that's the thing.

Craig Jones
So the corner meant the UFC come to you before, and they're like, who's wearing the mic? No one wants to wear the mic. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, hey, if you say something stupid, you're. Fuck.

Chris Williamson
Like a man immortalized on the Internet. You're like, hey, bro, you got two rounds to go. But it's already. You know what I mean? Like, it's the last round.

Craig Jones
It's like, fuck, you don't wanna. You don't wanna be that guy. Yeah, yeah. They always wanna give the mic to the guy that goes in the cage, but most of the time, a lot of guys will be like, no, give it to this guy. Right?

Chris Williamson
Yeah. The guy that's not speaking as much. How interesting. And you get to choose that. You get to choose who has the mic.

Craig Jones
The staff try to force you to give it to the right guy. Cause they kind of know who's the head coach and what. Yeah, what's going on, but like, you. Try to give it to like me or the wrestling coach or something, you know what I mean? Someone who's basically just holding us back there, like, wow.

Chris Williamson
What about Dana White? As an operator, as a now co promoter, federation owner? I mean, I feel like I've got big shoes to fill, but my hairline's on its way, you know?

You need to get Gary Brecker on that. He'll fix it. That's, that's the plan, man. I wanted to go to do the Oil wrestling world championships in Turkey and do a head transplant at the same time. I was like, fuck, that's the full Turkish.

You mentioned this before we got started. What, what is this? Turkish oil wrestling. They just oil each other up and they take any grip they can. Finger slips in the ass.

Craig Jones
It slips in. It's a good handle. Is this allegedly, is this a well known sport? Yeah, I don't remember the actual turkish name, but I think it's the oldest consecutively ran sporting event in the world. Yearly.

Chris Williamson
Annual? Annual, yeah, annual. What's got more prize money? But yeah, very good. What's got more prize money?

ADCC or turkish oil wrestling? Good question. We'd have to find it out. I think there's more to lose in turkish oil wrestling, to be honest. I don't know how you prepare for that.

Lots of the pelvic floor exercises. Yeah, lots of kegels. That's what Gabby said she was preparing for me with some strong Kegel routines. Okay, right. Like a special kind of finger snap.

Craig Jones
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That's how confident they are that you'll love it. Right now you can get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with any box by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to drinklmnt.com modernwisdom. That's drinklmnt.com modernwisdom. Alright, so the last few months we've been chatting and I've been saying, yo, man, where you at? Like, let's catch up and blah, blah.

And I think you were in town for two days and then left. Where have you been over the last four months? Oh, my God, where have I been? I've been to Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Poland, Ukraine, Mexico, Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Australia, UAE. I think that's it.

Where do you want to start? Where? I mean, I guess probably most interesting place, probably Ukraine. So I sort of set up a seminar out there to raise money for the soldiers, because the soldiers do get weapons. They do get support.

Craig Jones
US has provided weapons, Europe has provided weapons as well. A lot of the basic equipment they kind of have to self fund, you know, like, even, like, to get to the front line is a treacherous road, and that's just soviet construction, you know. So even if they want to get away from the front line for their brake period, like, driving the cars, like, when we drove to the front line, man, potholes everywhere, destroyed cars everywhere, just from the roads alone. So even to get the cars to be able to come and go from the front, getting to the front lines hard, they have to purchase most of their own military equipment, especially if they want good equipment. And you would want good equipment with what's at stake there.

So I really wanted to go out there, support those guys and really see kind of what was going on out there. And the seminar blew up. Probably bad choice of words, but, yeah, we had 250 people at the seminar, so it was, like, widely supported. It was awesome. And we donated all the money to ukrainian soldiers.

And then one of the guys, Roman, I remember he commented on the seminar poster, and he said, oh, obviously, seminar for the soldiers is great, but what about the guys on the front line? And I was like, I'll come to the front line. I'll come to the front line with you. And he said, I can't promise we'll survive, but we'll have a good time. And that's exactly the sort of thing I live for.

That's where basically we ended up. I don't know if I can say the name of the village, but it was a village that Russians had taken and Ukraine has liberated, taken back, obviously very very damaged. And we got to go, I think, 7 km from the russian offensive, so it's pretty close. Kiev has Patriot defense missiles, so you are somewhat safe. Obviously it's a war zone, but city life goes on, has to go on.

You know, I got, man, I got so many trolls messaging me after this Ukraine stuff, like saying, oh, look, you're out there drinking beers and shit, and it's like, yeah, I mean, like, even. They were suggesting that there isn't actually a kinetic war going on. Yeah. And it's like, guys, it's the front line. You know what I mean?

Obviously that's where the heaviest shit's going to be happening. There's impacts all across Ukraine, but really the front lines where the action's at. Russia has missiles that can reach far. They have planes that can reach far, but again, the target is gaining land and progressing into Ukraine. What was that like?

Chris Williamson
Talk to me about the atmosphere on the ground in Ukraine. I mean, the craziest thing to me was, and it's like, if you think about it, it makes sense that life goes on, you know? But really it's the attitude that the Ukrainians have towards the situation. So it's like the first night I landed, so we, you can't obviously fly in airspace, is dangerous there. So we took the car ride in, got to the hotel.

Craig Jones
I slept through it, but, like, 44 missiles or no. 31 missiles were shot at Kyiv. And it had been 44 days since it had been such a big attack. So I woke up, people messaged me like, yo, Kazakh, fuck. I slept through it.

I had the earplugs in. But that's when I realized the scope of it. Another serious thing was when a missile was shot down. So a hypersonic missile was shot down. And this was so close to the hotel I was at that the whole building shook.

And I thought that was a missile landing, but that was it being shot down. They took me to the missile site after where part of it had landed in the ground. I was just like, even that just part of the missile did so much damage to the land there. But what's crazy to me is the guy, life goes on, you know? Like, sometimes, like, after that, the building shook.

People are still trying to go on the gym and work out. They're just like, oh, fuck it. That's like, that's life out here. You know? We're not going to let, we're not going to let Putin change how we live our lives.

And, like, even in the villages and stuff, like, there's shelling going on. There's old guys out there still gardening and stuff. It's that. It's that energy that's, like, so, like, crazy. Like, I saw when I was there, one of those missiles damaged a coffee shop window.

It was, like, completely blowing out. The lady's still in there serving coffee. Just, like, boolean moves like that. But, I mean, it's intense. You got the air siren app.

You hear the air sirens go, and it's like there's a plane in the sky heading your direction. Missiles are being loaded to launch. There's kamikaze drones coming your way, and you're like, do you go to the bunker or do you not go to the bunker? And did you go to the bunker? No, I was.

It was mostly out of laziness, but, yeah, I didn't go. I figured, hey, fuck it. If it happens, it happens. But I wanted to do what they did. Like, those guys were like, we're not changing our lives because of.

That's exactly what Putin. I say Putin. Not all of Russia, but I say Putin. That's what they want. They want people to live in fear.

They want it to affect their daily lives. And that's their goal, is to not let it affect them, even if there are consequences. I think when you see archive footage of London during the blitz and keep calm and carry on stiff upper lip stuff, you almost think about that as being a mentality of a bygone era, that this was when humans were almost built differently. Mad. It was 80 years ago, and yet it seems that during a war zone, that same mentality just continues even now.

Chris Williamson
2024. Yeah, I mean, it has to re emerge. I mean, it is kind of like, really a world war two feel over there. Like it's doing trench warfare. You know, it's like, I think of Americans in the Middle east and stuff.

Craig Jones
It's not trench warfare. You know, you got a rich superpower against sort of poor terrorist groups, whereas over there, like, I look at Ukraine situation, it's crazy to me. Like, it's a country of 40 million versus a country of 150 million. It's like. It's a crazy thing to think about.

Like, and when it happened in Ukraine, men weren't allowed to leave. You're not allowed to leave. Some men died trying to leave, trying to swim across rivers to get out of there, to get to Europe, you know? And then Roman, the guy that took me to the front line, he had lived in France. He has a wife and kid in France, but he felt such a strong sense to really defend his country.

That he didn't have to go back. He volunteered to go back. And he hadn't lived in Ukraine for eight years, but I remember he said to me, he goes, home is where people miss you. He's like, my wife and kid is here. My mother and brother is in Ukraine, so he volunteered to go back.

So you hear these stories like this, and you're like, just super inspiring stuff. Yeah, I was gonna say, how does that make you feel to be around people that are like that? I mean, it obviously makes what you feel, what you do in life's pretty fucking trivial, you know, like the bravery. Of taking on ADCC. Yeah, taking out a tournament.

But, yeah, obviously. I mean, people can say what they will about the war and the politics of it, but they shouldn't confuse that with the warrior involved. And guys like that are super inspiring. And I followed him, so he had 15. He only gets 30 days off a year, but he went back to Marseille, and that's where he lives with his wife.

And I literally just left there. I spent a few days with him there, so I got to see what his regular life that he left was. And it's mind blowing. Jiu jitsu, black belt. He used to compete.

He owns a pizza shop there. He's got, like, an idyllic life. And he left all that to go defend his people over there. And it's just like, guys like that, you know, like, you think, fuck, that's heavy. Wow, you went to Chernobyl as well?

Chernobyl, yeah. So I've always wanted to go to Chernobyl. I guess. Like you said, the bit of dark tourism we were talking about before, fascinating place. But Russia had invaded via Belarus and came through Chernobyl.

And there was actually some fighting that occurred in Chernobyl, which is obviously, that's dangerous. I've been highly irresponsible by everybody. The shit's blowing up over there, you know, like. And I'm pretty sure that was one of the moments. That was one of the heaviest things that's happened in the two years of this war.

And that was when basically bipartisan support in America. And they were like, yo, if any radiation leaks and crosses into the EU, like, you're going to get the full brunt of NATO. So that was one of the heaviest. Like, don't fuck around with Chernobyl. But there's a ton of mines around Chernobyl.

Like, Russia came through and were pushed back out of Chernobyl, so Ukraine controls it. But Russia left a ton of mines. It's very close to Belarus. So you're actually pretty close. It's on the border, so you're close to where they had previously invaded from.

But I still wanted to go there. I thought, let's try. Let's try. So first was a guy I met at the seminar was a special forces guy, and his unit controlled Chernobyl. But you have to clear four military checkpoints to get to Chernobyl.

This guy cleared two of those points. And then the third one, the guy was very angry that we were trying to go there because it's like, it's dangerous. It's a liability. If, like, an Australian gets killed out there, that's. That's not.

Good job. Your video guy with you as well? Yeah, we had the video guy with me. So it's like we're trying to clear through. It's not looking good.

This guy wanted to arrest us. It was that serious. So we had to failed Chernobyl mission. We left. However, another, again, top secret opportunity presented itself, and we were able to bypass all of the security checkpoints and get into Chernobyl.

And it was funny because the same guy that was angry had to let us through this time. I was like, money talk. No money. No money involved. Just like, basically, I don't want to say who did it, but, like, obviously the right connection.

Someone appreciated that. I was there for charity, and I was helping the Ukrainians, and I was raising sort of the little following. I have sort of raising awareness about the issue because it kind of fallen out of the media cycle. Very much so. So he basically allowed me, this person allowed me to go to Chernobyl.

We got to see it. And it was crazy. Obviously crazy. It's eerie. Like, what are you able to see?

Chris Williamson
Like, so you're driving up? Yes. We got to see, obviously, the reactor. We got to see the abandoned town. We really spent a lot of time in the abandoned town.

Craig Jones
We got to see the Ferris wheel, like that little theme park area and crazy. But it's just completely, like, there was a lot of tourism there now. There's not a lot of tourism. What's eerie is there's a lot of bullet holes from the fighting that occurred there. So it was like, over the last couple of years.

Yeah. So it was like call of duty modern warfare. There was that map at Chernobyl. I forget the name of it, but, like, it's eerie to see that there was actually fighting going on there. So there's bullet holes in the walls.

Chris Williamson
And stuff on top of it being loaded into a lobby with no other players. Yeah. Super strange. Super strange. So we got to see all that, and then we got to see the giant sort of like, it was a radio signal blocker, and they built this huge thing.

Craig Jones
I forget the name of it, but, like, during the Soviet Union days, that used to send out weird signals and would interrupt radio broadcasts and stuff. It's just like, huge radio blocker that people didn't really know what made of. Like, a mesh sort of satellite material. What is it? Just like.

I'll show you pictures of it. Just some metal, like, massive. Massive. And I think it was like a early missile detector and a ray and a radio signal blocker. But it would send out this signal that would make noises on broadcast.

And during the soviet days, people had no idea. They thought it was, like, weather control or they thought it was mind control. Like, a lot of conspiracies around it, but we got to see that as well. So those are the main things. Got to see an Chernobyl.

Chris Williamson
Was there a. Did you have a Geiger counter with you to work out? Was there like, a. No. And I mean, the radiation levels could have switched around because obviously there's fighting there.

Craig Jones
There's a part of the. Could have disrupted something, maybe. Yeah. There's the Red Forest where Russia had come through. And I don't know how much truth there is to this, but there was, like, people said that there were trenches built there by Russians, so that would obviously, that's the most radio, one of the most radioactive zones there's.

So these guys. And they've kicked up all of the dirt. Dust. Yeah, all the dirt and the radioactive dust, and they've probably poisoned themselves with radiation. So, like, they obviously didn't know.

You'd hope they didn't know what was going on there. What was the reactor like? What was getting close to that. Like, I mean, that's just fully sealed. In that big dome.

Yeah. It kind of looks, like modern. It just looks like modern. Like. Like they built a building around it, you know what I mean?

But I was still there being like, fuck, I probably shouldn't be here just taking photos and shit, you know, I'm like, it's definitely illegal. I think that I watched a YouTube video about the elephant's foot, which is the melted core of the old reactor. I don't know how much truth's in this. There may be something that's beaten it now, but that it's regarded as one of the most radioactive chunks of material on the planet. Like, the way that that congeals, the way that it melted through the bottom.

Chris Williamson
And then it is that. It looks like an elephant's foot, this big sort of melted blob of just. I'd like to think that's what created my opponent. Coming up, Gabby Garcia, you know, but even when we left, we had to go through the radiation, the old radiation sensor machines where we're, like, standing there and they scan you to see if there's any radiation on you. Who knows if they still work?

Craig Jones
But we got in there okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we made it out, but it was kind of surreal. We were like, oh, man. Fucking is Chernobyl.

Chris Williamson
Did you get to fire some weapons? Did I see you with a bazooka in your hand or something? We got to fire a bazooka. So obviously people were pissed about this. They're like, it's fucking idiots down there wasting american taxpayer dollars, you know?

Craig Jones
But we just got to participate in the training, like, the firing range training of what the troops were already doing that took us to the front line. So they just let us shoot a couple of missiles out of the bazooka, which was pretty fun. Shot the M 60 Rambo style. So, yeah, it was pretty fun. Yeah, standing up, start laying down and then standing up, walking forward.

That's fun. But really, like, I showed the. The rpg I shot, and I was like, it's fucking pretty surreal, you know? Like, I just remember thinking a lot of times in my life I think, fuck, someone shouldn't have trusted me with this, you know, like. Like, uh, the guy that gave me the million dollars to bring on Rogan, I was just like, fuck, people will trust me way more than they should.

Like, the rpg, the guy's like, just make sure you don't fire it too low. It's gonna fucking blow yourself up. I'm like, okay. Didn't think about that. But, yeah, everyone's tried to do the bazooka jump in halo, so.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Imagine how high you could have sent yourself then. What a way to go. Pretty crazy, though, firing the rpg. Pretty wild.

Chris Williamson
Why? I mean, it's just intense, you know. And you're just like, just in case the blood pressure and heart rate went high enough already. And I think they do have a bit of a failure rate, so I think sometimes they fucking explode and shit. But it was fun.

Craig Jones
The guys, I mean, the guys took care of us. Got to shoot a bunch of shit. Was cool. I've met a ton of guys that were, like, talking about missions, showing us private footage of, like, battles, like, their own GoPro footage, which is crazy because I said about how the units lack funding. So obviously, like in jiu jitsu, we lack funding.

So what do you have to do? You have to create a social media presence to raise money. You're kidding me. These guys are making their own war footage? Yeah, they're on their telegram groups where they're showing personal combat footage.

They're wearing goPros, they're raising their profile. Obviously, that helps for intimidating guys. Only guns. Yeah, but they do it. It's crazy, man.

Like, you meet these guys that are famous sort of soldiers, and the more famous they are, the more donations they can ask for. And that money can be used towards a battalion to better equip them. Wow. And what's crazy about the soldiers out there and the situation is, like, I think if there's something that means a lot to you or has grave consequences and your budget is constrained, creativity goes through the roof. You just have to.

So, in terms of drone technology, they've figured out ways to attach explosives to $500 fpv drones that can kill, like, a DJI whatever. And they'll take out a russian tank. That'S worth two to $3 million with something that explosive. Plus, DJI drone was a grand. Grand and a half.

Yeah. So I always thought drone technology for warfare would be heading in a direction of highly expensive. But Ukraine is the innovators in this, and they're able to do so much fighting with the drones. Did you see, this was a while ago now, and it kind of shows how much out of sight, out of mind the Ukraine conflict is now that you've got what's going on in Gaza. But I remember seeing a TikTok.

Chris Williamson
They were. I think it was Ukraine that were recruiting pretty hot female influencers to explain. Now you're interested to explain to normal citizens how to drive a russian tank if you happen to come across one that was abandoned by the side of the street. Do you ever see these videos? I didn't see the.

So fucking cool. So it's the classic kind of high up, selfie style video and, you know, the sort of overly positive demeanor that most influencers have. No, no, no, no. And it's step one, turn the thing. Step two, press the button.

Step three, and it's hurt. Like just some dolly bird chick with a little bit of lip filler in a tank. Like, well, it's Ukraine. Usually a lot of lip filler, but each of their own. Yeah, that's crazy.

Craig Jones
I mean, using social media in war is huge over there to swear the opinion of the enemy. That's the front line of the propaganda campaign. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

I mean, it's kind of surreal, you know, but it plays a factor. How did I know that? You're not american, but you will have probably been perceived as part of this side of the world? How was America or you as a representative perceived? Were people warm toward you, or did they have issues?

Super positive? But, I mean, like, I went at a time when the US hadn't agreed to fund, to continue to fund Ukraine. So it had been, like, seven months since they had funded it. It was up in the air. Have they since agreed to give more money?

Since they've had, like, a bipartisan vote, they've decided to contribute more weapons to Ukraine. But I went there at a time when that was up in the air and people didn't really know what was going on. So at that time, even then, it was still very positive towards the US, because they were like, no matter what happens in the upcoming election, we have faith that the US will support them, because, like, I mean, something happened in the nineties with Bill Clinton. I think it was called the Budapest memorandum, where Ukraine was left with a lot of nuclear weapons when the Soviet Union ended. And Russia and the United States were very invested in getting those out of Ukraine.

Nuclear dearmament program, basically. So there was a contract signed, Budapest memorandum where they said, hey, if we get rid of those nukes, we promise to basically protect your border. So it's like, from Ukraine's perspective, they felt like the US has an obligation. You owe us. Yeah, you owe us.

You agreed to do it. We gave up. No country with nuclear weapons gets invaded. You know, that's a strong. That's a strong defensive strategy.

So Ukraine gave up the weapons. Russia crossed into their territory, and obviously, they didn't feel the full brunt of a military conflict with the US. And then. So they always had faith that the US would contribute. Honor that agreement.

Yeah, contribute. And luckily, since then, they have. But that was a surreal moment to me, because, again, you didn't know when those weapons were gonna run out. I didn't realize how big Ukraine was, how big Kyiv was, how beautiful Kyiv as a city was. So, like, when I went there, it's like.

It's like you're in Europe, you know, like, Kyiv's a beautiful city. So it's so history. Yeah, it's surreal to think that, like, I was there and they were talking about, like, we felt what the Patriot air defense system did to Russian. What is the patriot air defense system? It'll intercept or shoot missiles out of the sky so that they don't impact the city.

Chris Williamson
Okay. And they were provided by the US. It's like a pen that pops balloons type thing. Yeah. And the technology on, that's crazy.

Craig Jones
Cause the hypersonic missile, I think it can hit from the. From the Black Sea, it'll hit Keeven 30 seconds. That's how fast. So when they go off, you don't get an air siren alert, a shot dead or impacted. So when we were there, they hadn't been given weapons for a long time.

So you had this sort of, how many are left to defend the city? And that was surreal to me when I left Ukraine, just thinking about all the people I'd met, obviously, especially the troops on the front line, because you're like, these are great guys, the guys like everyone else, you know, like normal people defending their country. And if the US decided not to supply those weapons, what would happen? And even in Kyiv, it's a city, life goes on largely as normal. But if they ran out of air defence missiles, that would get absolutely destroyed, like places like Mariupol, Kursa, now Kharkiv.

Now Kharkiv's getting hit really bad now. So that is what was left on my mind. Leaving is how heavy. You know what I mean? How heavy what's happening there is.

And really, again, thankful that the US decided to step up, keep contributing weapon. How do you feel in. In retrospect? You know, you've been there viscerally. You've made human connections with people on the front line.

Chris Williamson
They looked after you. I'm sure you ate with them, the family. Here's a photo of my kids, blah, blah. Has this sort of impacted you emotionally? Yeah, for sure.

Craig Jones
I mean, I feel attachments to those guys, you know, I worry every day about what could potentially happen. I worry a little less with that support of weapons, you know, because it's like you think, like, if you think about the situation, it's like. They put it to me like this when they talk about having a peace agreement, right? It's like, have you watched 20 days in Mariupol? No.

So that won the Academy award last year. It basically tells what happened to Mariupol when the first 20 days of the full scale russian invasion happened. And, I mean, you see that video that the city's been destroyed. The filmmaker stayed behind and filmed from the hospital. You see kids die, like, just bombing indiscriminately.

Tragedies have happened in Ukraine, and a lot of other countries will say it's still expensive. Let Russia have the land. Let Russia have what they want. But it's like, they put it as a perspective. If a different country invaded California, massacred a bunch of people, did war crimes, for all intents and purposes, and then the rest of the world said, ah, let them keep California.

Let's let this end. Let's let this war go. For Americans, they'd be like, we'll fight. To the last guy. So for me, that's what I was thinking.

I was like, wow, if the weapons run out, they're still going to fight. They're going to fight to the last guy. Shovels and pitchforks and whatever they get. Their hands on because of what they've been perceived. I mean, even there was one guy, Dmitry.

And, like, the tension between Russia and Ukraine is long lasting, because I remember he showed me a picture of, like, execution papers of when the Soviets executed his grandfather. So when russian full scale invasion started, he got his AK and his fucking motorcycle helmet, went out to the streets. He's like, I'd rather be dead than live under Russia. So it's like, it's a very personal. Right.

Chris Williamson
He's got heritage to his distaste. Yeah. He's like, I would never let them. You know what I mean? Like, it's.

Craig Jones
It's crazy. Wow. So I don't know how that conflict is gonna end, you know? Like, I mean, Ukraine deserve their. Their land back.

Russia deserves. Russia should have to be obligated to pay for the damages. I mean, how can you even pay for the emotional damages and the deaths and stuff? But I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know how that ends.

Chris Williamson
It seems like just a war of numbers and just continue to throw russian bodies at Ukraine, and that's how they've done it forever. Russia, right. I think the official statistics, they say, is, like, half a million Russians dead in two years. And I know the soldiers. Cause obviously a lot of soldiers have journals, they're journaling out there.

Craig Jones
So I know ukrainian soldiers have told me about how they've found journals of dead Russians that have gone straight. They've been conscripted and ended up at the front line immediately. It's cannon fodder, you know, and that's, like, heavy to think about. They're just sending mass amounts in. Human meat grinder.

Yeah, one. Well, like, Russia does have obviously great technology, their military technology. They can build, create shells so far, to shell the cities, which is what's happening in Kharkiv. Kharkiv's just getting block by block bombed right now. And it's a regular factory to back end of a cannon to Kharkiv factory to.

Yeah, just so quick. And like you said, the news cycle has shifted towards sort of Palestine Israel conflict, Gaza and stuff. So it's largely getting forgotten, I would say. Funny. Like, the.

Chris Williamson
The mental ram of the world only has sufficient disk space to be able to have one thing in its kinetic wall going on, and that's people. People keep messaging me. They're like, why are you so passionate about Ukraine? Because obviously people think it's so corrupt. They're like, are they paying you?

Craig Jones
And it's like, why don't you talk about Palestine? And I'm like, I didn't fucking go to Gaza. Yeah, I can't go. And also, just because I'm raising money for cancer, the heart disease crew aren't gonna glitch me on the Internet. You know what I mean?

We're trying to do what we can with the short time we have, you know, like, and it's easy. I can go to Ukraine. I can help, you know, I can support. I've made personal connections there. So it's like, I don't think it should be one or the other, you know what I mean?

But, like, it's kind of like, it's best not to spread yourself too thin on one political issue at a time. Cause people only have the attention for. Where else did you fall in love with over your travels? Kazakhstan's cool. Kazakhstan's cool.

I've been going to Kazakhstan since 2016. I actually did ADCC trials in Kazakhstan in 2016. Interesting place. Interesting place. Why?

Obviously, again, you got something you can't talk about over there, but would be Bora bora, obviously is fascinating. That's what you associate Kazakhstan with. Unfortunately. What I feel bad for Kazakhstan is sometimes when there's a language barrier, jokes get misinterpreted. So for me, Borat was hilarious because the joke was on dumb westerners that thought that was really Kazakhstan.

But he actually filmed those village scenes in Romania. So it's like. But obviously things get misinterpreted. It gets lost on them, you know, and it would be annoying if you're a Kazakh. Everyone's like, oh, Borat, Borat.

You know, they took offense to that. They have a bad relationship with the Borat films. Very bad. But their tourism board did lean into it recently. It took a long time, but they did lean into it, and they were like, come to Kazakhstan.

Very nice, you know, so, like, it took a long time, but they're leaning into it now. But we. We went over there to film a film, some documentary stuff. We showed you the cockbar, the horse, sort of. We can put that up as well.

But horse fighting, basically, like, it's like rugby. It's like rugby on horseback where you take a goat, they take a goat or a sheep, they cut its head and legs off, and they'll have up to a thousand guys on horses at a time where they'll lean down. They've got to pick it up and throw it into an area to win money. And local businessmen will put cash up to watch these guys fight it out. Okay.

And people get severely injured doing this. Poor people polo. Poor people polo. So we. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. We went there and we wanted to film and we filmed, but it was tense because I was riding around on a little pony with a biggie small sweater on and some sunglasses, you know, it's like. And those guys are like, is he making boys? Most of them loved her.

Some of them were like, hey, sabora, joke. I was like, fuck, I'm gonna die. But it was fun. We only filmed for one day there. We had some difficulties, but what was funny was I had a.

We had a stunt like cockpit. So dangerous. Like, they kick each other. Like, if a horse. A horse falls over, they don't stop.

Like, they'll trample a dude. It doesn't stop because you're taking a big prize. Paul. Especially trained horses, especially trained riders. It's the CJI of.

It's the CJI of fucking horse fighting, I guess. But, like, we had a stuntman, and his job was we were filming some scene where he was meant to take me so it looked like I was riding on horseback into the pit. And we had a stunt double where my outfit to go into the pit. But this guy, first of all, we missed his flight that day. Cause he was drunk.

He fell asleep at the airport. Good. Very good. And then when we flew him in, instead of taking me to the edge, he took me right into the center of the pit. And I don't know how to ride a horse.

And he had the reins. So he's taking me dead center into the cockpit pit. And for a while was chill. Some of the riders were angry because I was blocking them, because he's holding my reins. He's getting in the fucking way.

I'm in the way. And someone would get angry, like, what the fuck? Gets fucking got out of here. Some people thought it was funny, but then someone picked up the carcass and a whole mass of them came charging towards me and I was just like, fuck, I'm about to be trampled here. And obviously, if I don't have the reins of the horse, I don't even know how to fucking ride a horse.

I've never ridden a horse before. But I got out of there unscathed. I got hit a couple times by people on horses, but we made it out. But basically the drunk stuntman. It's a good story, but was fucking dangerous.

Chris Williamson
High risk scenario. Managed to survive the front lines of Ukraine only to be trampled to death by a bunch of blokes trying to chase a goat head. It's been a dangerous year and it's probably only going to get more dangerous, I think. I think. But Kazakhstan is awesome.

Craig Jones
Kazakhstan's actually gone through like, sort of a women's rights movement over there right now. It's big. I don't think it's been presumably championed by you. Champion by me, yeah. And Gabby.

And Gabby Garcia. I'll bring her out there. Right. But they had. They've had a couple of big sort of women's rights issues out there.

There was a guy, Bisham Bayeva, politician. Like, heavily muslim, that country. Yeah, pretty heavily muslim. Obviously a country that was suppressed in their religious beliefs under the Soviet Union, but heading back to their roots, basically. So there was a politician there, Bishambaev, who just straight up beat his wife to death.

And some of it was recorded on camera and he still pled not guilty and fought it in court. And it was like a crazy thing because everyone was like, is he going to get off? Is he not going to get off? They have weird laws there where it was like a wife could get two weeks in prison for provoking the husband. You know, like, there's a lot of.

Chris Williamson
A lot of that going on, but medieval stuff. Yeah. And it was sort of. It was occurring when we were there. And actually, even the people that filmed that one day for us, very good director over there, he made a film that was sort of a film about what's life's really like for some of the women in the smaller towns.

Craig Jones
And then it became like a horror movie. It was like. It was really well done called Duster. I don't think you can get it in the west yet, but the culmination of both those things, it was the highest grossing kazakh film ever made in that big story at the time. Luckily, he just got sentenced and got a proper jail sentence.

But it was kind of an issue where everyone was like, they might let this guy off. Was it an unspoken about sort of corner of the world that's got some pretty egregious shit happening. Well, there's some amazing stuff, like the scenery, the people. Awesome that was going on at the time. We kind of wanted to cover that, but it's very difficult to be a foreigner on horseback.

Yeah, foreigner. And cover anything like that. You know what I mean? Like, as a foreigner, it's kind of very sensitive. Yeah.

It's like, mind your business, and maybe rightfully. Rightfully so, but luckily, it went in the right direction. He was sentenced to a fair sort of amount, but that was heavy. We got out of there. We got out of there after that.

Well, all right, we'll go to Ukraine and then. Still heavy in Ukraine. Yeah. Jeez. What's driving you to do these trips?

Chris Williamson
Like, what I. What's the underlying motivation that you have? I mean, I just have the ability and the connections. As weird as it is, jiu jitsu gives you connections all over the world. Oligarchs to tech guys.

Craig Jones
You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of, like, obviously, celebrities, a lot of people that I can kind of utilize jiu jitsu to get experiences that people might not normally get. So I love an adventure. I love seeing the world, and if I can do some charity work along the way, that's awesome. And on top of that, create some content.

So that's the goal with it, and that's what we're trying to do with that travel show. Obviously, it's gonna be a lot of fun, but also try and touch on. Some serious stuff, I guess BJJ has. It's kind of a bit of a rich people sport, at least from what I can see. Maybe Brazil actually might be a good example of where it's not, but certainly when I think about the people that I know, the people in Dubai that do it, the people in Austin that do it, it's like the Gulf of the combat world, for sure.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's very affluent people are smart or business owners and CEO's, so. Yeah, you're right. It does, I guess, give you an unfair advantage and piece of access.

Chris Williamson
Yeah. I get a slip in. Slip out of some place I remember, like, it saves you sometimes. Right? So the soldiers were giving me.

Craig Jones
I don't know what you call them. They were giving me things, gifts for coming to Ukraine. Some of those were heavy helmets of soldiers they killed from Russia, and they showed me the different styles of helmets. Some of those were from 1945, basically almost world war two time, you know, like, they get. Some of the russian soldiers had old helmets.

Some were modern russian military has from highest level to still wear it. They're just utilizing anything they can from the last century, anything. And one of the things one of the guys gave me was a bayonet. So I got given two knives. The police chief of the entire country gave me a knife made out of a russian tank.

And this is a russian tank that was on its way. It was in Ukraine territory, and they've destroyed it, and someone's turned it into a knife. And he's like, tell the world. This is what we do to Russians in Ukraine. We turn them into knives.

And I was like, whoa, heavy. And then another guy gave me a bayonet, and I was just like. The guy said, hey, don't cross into. Europe with all of it wielding your bayonet. Yeah.

But I was like, well, I don't want to throw it away. I'm like, the guy's giving me a personal gift. So as I start crossing into Europe through Poland, the bayonets found. And because it's too long and too thick and it can attach to a gun, it's considered a cold war weapon. So, like, it.

It could. A cold weapon. I don't know, some. It was meant to be five years in prison for that, for carrying that. And I was like, fuck.

I didn't know that. But luckily, luckily we got out of that situation. It was a bit dicey for a sec. The police came. They had a fucking old camcorder out.

I was like, oh, shit, I might be going away for this. Should have left the bayonet behind. Did you break both of the knife and the bayonet? Did you have to leave those in Europe or did you. They kept the bayonet.

I've still got the russian tank knife. That's all right. The bayonet, I think it was mainly that it attaches to guns, like, attached to a rifle. And also there's a problem of guns in Ukraine making their way into Europe. And I guess with weapons in general.

Chris Williamson
And even though you can't fire a bayonet, and it's a pretty primitive weapon, it's part of the overall assembly, that is. And that's the web I fell into. Wow, that was like, we were stuck at the border for, like, 910 hours. Trying to negotiate this bayonet. I had to call in all sorts of favors to be like, yo, this.

Is like, well, surely the police chief of Ukraine would be, hey, mate, come. On, let him out. You know? Yeah, he's sound I mean, all of. Those guys are heroes.

Craig Jones
Like the police chief there, Marshall, when Ukraine first got attacked, crimea, I think back in 2014, this guy's like a hero over there. He's like, defended the don tesk airport, and this was in the don, and I'm terrible with the names, but he defended this really pivotal airport, and he is like, they held onto it for so many days and wouldn't let Russia take this airport. And he was just telling me the story, and he's just like, yeah, we just couldn't let him take it. And he shows me a picture, and he's got shrapnel hanging out his head and a bullet hole in the side of his helmet. And he's like, yeah, we couldn't let him take the airport.

That couldn't happen. I'm just like, fuck. Does it put into perspective people who take brazilian jiu jitsu very seriously as something where they're going to warn, for sure, for sure. That's why I drink a couple beers before match. I'm like, fuck, we're just having fun out here, you know, just like, there's heavy shit going on.

It's good perspective shifter to be able to go to these places, you know, especially, like, b team, man. Like, some of the guys I'm with, they don't even have passports. They don't want to leave America. I'm just like, man, take me to the craziest. 60% of Americans don't have a passport.

Yeah. That's why. Some of that's obviously because they can't afford it. But some of us also have fucking no vacation time here, you know? Yeah.

Chris Williamson
I think a big chunk of it is a lack of culture, at least from what I've seen outside of the toffee wanky fucking influencer friends that I've got. The country's so big. You've got 50 countries attached to the same country where you can work anywhere, use the same currency, speak the same language, et cetera. It's like saying, I've never traveled outside of Europe. Well, you can travel quite far within Europe, and America is basically collection of countries that happen to share a currency in the language.

Craig Jones
Yeah, I mean, I'm down to go anywhere. I'll go anywhere. I'll risk it all for a good story, you know? That's what I love. What was your time in Thailand like?

Chris Williamson
You must have been out there before. There's something out there that pulls me each and every time, you know? Can you put your finger on it? I have. They have to me but, yeah, I love Thailand.

Craig Jones
Thailand's good time. I just live in the Philippines. Philippines, surprisingly awesome. I've never been Manila. Like, I didn't know what to expect, you know, you visit some asian cities.

Some of them are super well developed. Some of them Philippines Muslim as well. Right. I might have got this wrong. No.

But there is an island in the Philippines controlled by ISIS. I was trying to visit that while I was out there. Controlled by ISIS. ISIS? ISIS island?

Yeah, they got an island. Okay. Some parts of Philippines super dangerous. Like, people get kidnapped and stuff. But for the most part, I had a good time.

Chris Williamson
Uh huh. That's actually. I don't know if you saw the video where I had a bunch of lady boys wake up my friend. I did. That's him out there.

Okay. So we. We're in the Philippines, and we're hanging out in one of the seedier areas, and we just recruited a bunch of lady boys to wake him up. Okay. That's the punishment you get if you want to go to bed early and not hang with the boys, you know?

Okay. Yep. No excuse. And how did. How did that go?

Where do you find that many lady boys? I'm with a pied piper. They came to me in the streets, you know? Okay. This is just something that you exude.

The smell of Japanese. Yeah. That doesn't wash away. No. Doesn't wash away.

Craig Jones
Nah. I love hanging out with lady boys. They're a good time, you know, one of the boys drinking beers with them, hear some good stories. They make your friends uncomfortable. Fucking love it.

Chris Williamson
What do you want to do next? Where do you want to go next after this? I go, hang on, you've got a fucking invitation. Have you not got. How long until the invitational?

Six months? Five months? Oh, we put the counter. We put the counter up yesterday. 80 days.

Craig Jones
80 days until. And before then, I got to go back to Ukraine, so I'm going back to Ukraine to visit the city of Kherson. So head back there. Why? I'm going to do a charity seminar for the police as a thank you for helping, probably help me get out of jail or not, but as a thank you, just appreciation and, yeah, just go visit the guys again.

I booked that before I booked the tournament. I probably would have shelved that for a while, but summer is a pretty heavy time during the war because obviously winter, those roads, like, snowed in wet. It's hard for a lot of offense to come, you know, like, things get bogged. It's hard for cars to move. Summer's pretty hot.

Things can move pretty quick. So go out and see the boys. At least with some nice weather. With some nice weather, yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson
So what else have you like you've done Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Philippines, Thailand. But you did a ton of other places in the middle. What were you doing there? So when we were, we were planning to film in Kazakhstan and we had a break between the first day of shooting and the latter days of shooting. So we're just like, I've spent a lot of time in Kazakhstan in our matti.

Craig Jones
So I was like, fuck it. Let's just pick a random country and head there. So we went to Uzbekistan and I showed up to a gym in Uzbekistan and just surprised them and trained with them. So I was like, we got time. Let's do it.

Chris Williamson
They recognize you? Yeah, luckily. Otherwise I would have fell flat. Hey, fuck's this guy? Who's this fucking asshole dressed in short shots?

Yeah. But it went well. Awesome. Yeah. I just love trying to visit as many crazy places as possible.

Craig Jones
Jiu jitsu is everywhere. It's like a virus. It's like herpes. You can't get rid of it. Yeah.

Chris Williamson
It's interesting to think just how much a sport like that. I remember I was on a wedding in Barcelona a few years ago. One of the guys who doesn't usually drink had had a particularly heavy day and evening. And I don't know whether you know, but Barcelona is the robbery capital of Europe. Really super, super, super bad.

And he wandered off from the guys later on in the evening, got this bus back from wherever we'd had the ceremony during the day. And he wanders into the train station and falls asleep in the train station and wakes up to find out that his phone, his wallet and his shoes had been taken from him. Good shoes. Well, wedding shoes, so not totally terrible. And he kind of has.

Hes sort of a bearded crossfit dude. So hes like pretty well known Crossfit coach bearded guy. So its now six in the morning and hes wandering the streets of Barcelona, beard wedding suit, but the ties down, the shirt is open. No shoes, no phone, no wallet. And he's going up to people in the street saying, please, can I borrow your phone?

Which obviously, given the fact that it's the robbery capital of Europe, just looks like he is one of the people that's then going to try and do it. And he said he ended up finding a person that would give him his phone. And then he messaged someone on Instagram and managed to get them to let him into the Airbnb. Where he was staying. But he said, if I was really, really stuck, I would have just found the nearest crossfit gym and said, look on Instagram, there's me.

It's kind of like a global passport thing. It's a distributed network of people who do the thing you do and by proxy, care for some reason, like, oh, you do our thing. You've dedicated some years of your life to this thing. We will look after you. It's like a secret society.

Craig Jones
It's good to be famous in a niche sport, but everyone in the niche sport knows you, you know? Cause you don't have to deal with the issues of widespread fame. But that's interesting. You've got a connection everywhere you go. Narrow but deep.

Yeah, narrow but deep. That's what we all create. Going back to the BJJ thing, it seems to me total bro science commentary here. But it seems that at least within the next sort of five years or so, we're going to see the phasing out of one generation of competitors and kind of probably the ascendancy of a new generation who, if you were to throw a little bit of money, invest into a bunch of different fighters, young guys that are coming up, who do you think is going to be the most dominant few fighters over the next few years? I mean, I think the young guys, they already do well in the lighter divisions, the heavier divisions, some of the old guys can linger around, but the younger guys now, I mean, like Miki Galvao, the Ritolo brothers, you know, like, those guys are phenomenal.

And then from guys that, like, I mean, Dorian, he trains with us from time to time, but this guy's like a wrestling champion in America. He's super young. I think 1819, he's already, like, world class level. So at the smaller weights, those guys can already win. Like, cade Ratolo won ADCC super Young.

So it's like the next generation has already arrived, I think. Yeah. I really enjoyed seeing behind the scenes of your Tokyo vlog and what's it called? Not kimono. What's the fucking thing?

Chris Williamson
What's the fight? Oh, the gee. The Gi. No. What's the five person fight?

Craig Jones
Oh, quintet. Quintet. That's it. Fucking kimono. Shut up.

Chris Williamson
Actually, that's a question. Is gi jujitsu dead now? Does no one care? It's not dead. It just doesn't have the personalities that no gee does, you know?

Craig Jones
And you can get a lot more. It's hard to get people to watch grappling that don't participate. It's harder to get them to watch Gi. Why? I think it just reminds us of some traditional martial arts, you know, like, it's like unattractive.

It was cool in the eighties, you know, fucking Bruce Lee movies and shit. But it's harder now. I think it's a bit weirder to them, you know, so I think Nogi is just a bit more easily digestible than the, than the GI game. Are you gonna make the guys wear uniforms at CGI? I'll let them wear whatever they want as long as it covers enough skin, I think, you know, say that to Gabby for me.

I'll wear a banana hammock. Some budgie smugglers against Gabby I think come out smoking, try to finish her. I'll put the cigarette on the edge of the, of the mat space and try to finish it before that thing runs out of steam, you know? Well that's also the same pace that your gas tank is moving down at based on. That's true.

That is true. That is probably the timer I have. It's either that or I put it out of my tongue, flick it out, I don't know. What are the, that might turn her on. What are the ways that things could go wrong between now and CGI?

Chris Williamson
You must have considered what could go right. We would get all of the people that we want and this would be fantastic and it'll make money and we can give it to charity. What are the ways that it could go wrong? I mean it could go wrong in any way you're trying to put on. Any sort of event can go wrong.

Craig Jones
You know, any sort of difficulties. Like we're going out of our way to build, like we could just throw mats on the floor, but that's not the safest, that's not the best way to do things. So we're going to build something that is safe for the competitor to compete on. That adds layers of complexity on a short time zone as it is to put on an event. But the goal is going to be higher.

Really try to spare no expense in making it the best athlete and fan experience possible. But I mean any of those little things could go wrong. We've got a tight, a tight timeline. You know, plan the media to get the lighting sorted, to tech everything out in terms of sound and broadcast and blah, blah. Yeah, now you're making it worse.

Chris Williamson
Sorry. Well look man, I need the. Well that's one thing. You know, people are looking at it and saying, God, where'd you get $2 million from? That's the prize money.

What about the money to actually front the event. I mean, we got your back alley. I mean, we've got. The budget was 3 million. So we've got money aside, we're doing production budgets now.

Budget was three, but two of it's going to the fighters. Plus there's a super fight. At least one, two. How much is gabby getting paid? How much does she want?

Craig Jones
She just gets the physical contact of me. That's more than money could buy. More of your genetic material? Yeah, money could buy, but, yeah, I mean, we're gonna make it work. Sponsors, you know, like, we do have more funding, accessible if needed.

But we've set it as our goal to do this on a certain budget. Well, I mean, if. And especially given that you're being largely transparent apart from your anonymous ukrainian funder, if you are relatively sort of open books about it and say, hey, guys, we managed to do this thing on three mil to put on an event like this, or five mil to put on an event like this. It's, like, pretty shoestring budget. That doesn't seem like an insane amount of money for the impact that it's had and for what it gives to the fighters and so on.

Chris Williamson
I think it does throw into harsh light. Okay, so where does all of the money go in usually? Right. Competitions. Yeah, that's.

Craig Jones
And that's what we want to prove. We want to be fully transparent about everything. Like, I mean, even the venue. Like, we're using Thomas a Mac. I think that's.

We rented it out two days. I think with loading days, we're still talking under $200,000. You know, so it's like, the venue itself is quite affordable for an event. Of this scope being run over weekend in Vegas. Fully tech.

Chris Williamson
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So it's like. It's.

Craig Jones
I mean, that's my theory, is that we can do it for that budget. If it goes over, we have more money, accessible, but it goes over. It still leaves the question, where the fuck does all of the money go in the other competitions? Like, where is it? And that's something that we want have to answer.

That's something. If we do this correctly, I feel like other competitions will have to answer. And that's kind of the goal here, to say, hey, can we put on a spectacle that takes care of the athletes and is good for the fans, too, you know? Do you have any aspirations for Fair Fight foundation? For sure, yeah.

I mean, that's sort of, like, what we're doing when we're traveling around doing charity work and stuff. We want to use some of that foundation money to keep Jiu jitsu alive in these small countries, because, like, I try to like my position in the sport. I think most people like me don't go to poor countries. Like, these countries don't have access to high level jujitsu guys. So I love the idea that I can visit places and train with people where Jiu jitsu guys wouldn't go.

And that, to me, is really ultimately growing the sport. A true jiu jitsu missionary, you know, traveling to these weird places, leaving a few kids behind, you know, spreading the sport nonetheless. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, if you don't have Uberexec and if you don't have a nice sort of at least four star resort available. Yeah.

Chris Williamson
You know, the guys that are the biggest in any industry aren't going to go there. The service isn't there. And that's. Yeah, those are places I want to hear craziest places. Inspired by Bourdain, obviously.

Craig Jones
I want to try to do what he did for street food, for basically Jujitsu, you know, have you released or. What'S the release schedule for the content that you've captured from all of this stuff? We're aiming to utilize the event and the eyes on the event to coordinate, maybe show clips during the event, maybe even play it before the event. Like, we're hoping to utilize the event and the eyes on the event to grow that documentary. Drive traffic, would you?

Chris Williamson
Netflix comes along and says, here we go. Sell my soul for her, for sure. You know, I've sold my soul for less. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've bought someone's panties for less as well.

Craig Jones
That's true. Yeah. How are you operating? Beating while you're. Well, I mean, it's like I helped set it up for two years.

It's kind of a self. It sort of runs a self takes. Over on its own. Yeah, I mean, my. I started teaching the classes.

I don't teach anymore. All the boys teach the classes. I'm mostly the merchandise, clothing ideas guy, you know, that's my niche, but, yeah, I mean, I'm not there too much, to be honest. Do you miss it when you're away? I miss.

It's good to come back. Good to leave, too, but it's definitely good to come back. I love coming back. Training with the guys and seeing where my levels are, seeing how much they've improved, making sure they're still okay. Yeah, I think they're happy to see me leave, too.

You know, I come in, I throw some shit, talking around. They're like, all right. Sick of you now, mate. They miss until they see me, then they're like, please fucking go back to a war zone. Keep them.

Chris Williamson
Please. God damn it. Dude, I'm really excited. I'm really excited to see what happens over the next couple of months. Where should people go?

They want to keep up to date with all of the updates and everything. My Instagram, Craig JonesbG, CJI, official Fairfax foundation website tickets will be on sale on UNLV, Thomas and Mac event center page. I think that should be up on the 31st around then. But yeah, I mean, it's all. It'll.

Craig Jones
If you follow jiu jitsu, it's on the guy's social medias. It's blowing up. I can't wait, man. I'm really, I'm really, really happy to see, to see you doing something cool. I think this is gonna be an interesting few months if I survive.

Chris Williamson
Appreciate you, man. Thanks, bro.

Craig Jones
Thanks, bro.