#785 - Jimmy Rex - The Reality Of What It Takes To Become A Better Man

Chris Williamson
Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Jimmy Rex. He's a men's work coach, author and a podcaster. What does it mean to be a better man today?

Is it driving a Bugatti? Praying to God? Making a lot of money? Building a family? Turning into a monk?

The options are endless. So are there any underlying principles which can help guide your way? Expect to learn what it means to be a healthy, authentic man. The problems most men struggle with how more men can can learn to face their fears. What it means to be a warrior and give full devotion.

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But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jimmy Rex.

What does that Marcus Aurelius quote mean to you? You know, I think so many people want to, you know, say, like, what is morality? What is morals? What is the right thing to do? A lot of people look back at their life and think, well, you know, did I do good?

Jimmy Rex
Did I. Was it good? Did I do enough things that mattered and things like that? And I think ultimately, we get so caught up in all these different discussions, and the end of the day, I say this to the guys that I coach, I say, hey, you know, like, you know, if you're doing good or not, like, we don't need to talk about it. Like, you know, if it's the right thing to do.

Like, you already know. And so that's kind of, to me, it's like, waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be, be one it's just like, just do it. Like, you already know what to go do. Go do it. People have this requirement to check how they're getting on, right?

Chris Williamson
Progress. You have a progress bar at the bottom of this YouTube video that people will be watching. You have a bank balance account that can tell you how close you are to your saving goal. And I think what people are doing a lot of the time is, okay, what is the plan that I'm supposed to follow? What are the steps?

What are the guidelines? But, yeah, ultimately, I think it comes down to focusing on action rather than focusing on discourse. Yeah, I think when we get caught up too much in checking off a box. Right. Or getting too much into the details of what we're doing and trying to.

Jimmy Rex
A perfect morning is not necessarily checking off ten different things you did, right? Cold plunge. I took my water. As soon as I woke up, I made my bed. It's like, did you wake up and did you have peace?

Did you enjoy it? You know, I think for me, I try to tell, you know, when I speak about this stuff, I like to think, like, do you enjoy your life? Do you wake up and you're happy that you get to be you? Do you wake up and you go, you know what? I'm excited that I get to go do this again today.

Like, I like being me when I wake up. And it's like, that's ultimately, I think the goal is, do you have a happy life? Like, without the details? Cause there's no right way to do life. Everybody does it a little bit different.

And I think where we get in trouble is when we think it needs to be a certain way. You know, there's nothing worse than somebody that says, I have the way to make you happy. And it's this way or no way. I grew up in religion, and it's like there's one plan to happiness, they literally call it that. And it's.

I think you. It causes a lot of expectations, which causes a lot of pain. I think when you put all that aside and you just ultimately just look at your life and go, wait, do I enjoy who I get to be around? Do I enjoy waking up and being me every day? Are you excited?

Chris Williamson
To wake up? Is one of the best heuristics. I think there's a. I can't remember who it was. Johnny, one of my friends from the UK, told me about this doctor who said, as a man, if you wake up with an erection and take a good dump once a day, most things are sorted.

And I was like, yeah, that's not bad. But I would add a third one in, which is you're excited to get out of bed. Yeah. Not because you're escaping something, but because you're excited to get out of bed. Yeah.

What does it mean to be a healthy man, in your opinion? Yeah, I think there's a couple main things. I think ultimately it starts with there, and I think this one, there are kind of levels or steps to it a little bit. I think ultimately the first step is you can't be a liability to the people around you. You know, if you're a healthy man physically, you're able to do the things that you're able, you need to do in a day.

Jimmy Rex
If your kids need you to step up and, you know, physically be a certain person for them, you're able to do it. If you had to carry them because they got injured or whatever else that might be. And then I think there's, you know, financially, you have an obligation not to be a liability to the people in your life. You have to give them enough confidence which gives them faith in their own life and their ability to kind of, you know, go for it in life because they know, they're like, you know what? I got this guy, I got my dad, I got my husband, whoever that is, that allows me to be at peace, that allows me to know that life's never going to get too bad because I can count on this person.

And I think to me, that's what it means to be a healthy man. It's, you're not caught up with, you know, these vices or these, you know, whatever it might be that's holding you back. You don't waste your time. You have vision. You have a purpose, I think, with, and it's not a purpose like, in the sense of like, oh, I've got to change the world.

I gotta, you know, all humanity's gonna be different because I live. No, but like, the people closest to you, the 30 or 50 people that, whose lives you can actually infect, you show up for them and they know they can count on you, and there's a confidence that's built together. I think that's what it means to. Be a healthy man, physically, financially. Yeah.

And then I think those are the two main ones. But then I think it's just, you know, it's having a vision or a mindset where you have a purpose for your life. You're, you're building towards something, right? You have a vision for it. You're not just letting whatever comes to you kind of happen to you.

You're not reacting to the world. You're doing it by design. I think that's the best way I can frame it. Yeah. Doctor Robert Glover says that the three aspects of a healthy man are a man who's comfortable in his own skin, knows where he's going, and is having fun while he's going there.

Chris Williamson
And I think that that's a really lovely breakdown. I had a really interesting conversation with a dude who's a good bit younger than me and you and his community is filled with sort of 13 to 19 year old guys, young dudes. They're into personal development and all the rest of this stuff, but so much of the young guy obsession with how to become a man and what being a man is. And alpha men sit, they don't sit with their legs crossed. You know, they always dress nicely or, you know, it's all about the jawline and all the rest of it.

It's like, hey, dude, being comfortable in your own skin is so important. Like, you are just, you. Are there some things like, typically, that make people more or less competent, more or less masculine? Yeah. But, like, the most competent, masculine, sexy thing that you can do is just not giving a fuck.

Jimmy Rex
Yeah. I'll tell you a funny story. This is. I wrote about it in the book, but it's one of my all time favorite things that happened to me at my expense. That is just hilarious.

And I'd been studying masculinity. I'd been studying how to just be a more masculine man. Right? And I go to this Tony Robbins event, his date with destiny event, and he has, I mean, there's three, 4000 people there. And he has 30 women come on the stage.

He wanted to show the women dancing. And then you kind of cheer for whichever one is the most in their feminine. So with women, it's very easy to tell when they're dancing. You can totally see it. You know, they're free and they're spirit and everything else.

Then he says, okay, so we all cheer and then pick the two women that win. Then he says, all right, now we're going to cheer for the 30 men that are the most masculine. Come up if you want to try. And I go up there. Cause I had studied this so I knew that when you're dancing and you're masculine, it's not like you're ripping your shirt off and swinging your hips.

You're kind of just vibing with the music and going with it. So I'm like, I think I can win this you know, and so I get up there and I'm on the stage. How many people are you in front of? 4000. Dancing in front of 4000.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. With 30 other guys on the stage. And there's dudes ripping their shirt off and winging. So I'm just vibing with the music, and Chris, I think I'm gonna win. Cause.

And so they do the vote. You know, they cheer for each person, and I get one of the two or three loudest votes. So I'm feeling pretty good about myself. And Tony Robbins goes, okay, so, you know, which of these men is the most masculine? He goes, none of them.

Because a masculine man would never get on a stage and try to impress a bunch of random strangers. I'm like, oh, my gosh, he got me so good. I knew it, too. I was like, oh, my gosh, it was so good. I just put my head down in shame.

I'm just like, dude. Cause it's so true, right? Like, I wouldn't give a shit if people thought I could do it or not if I was actually in my masculine. And so the very act of getting up there and trying to perform for. Strangers, I lost the game.

I lost the whole game before it started. It was so good. That's an awesome story. Yeah. Why do you think it's different for women?

Well, I think it's. I think we have to really understand the difference between men and women. Like, women are, you know, men, it's about being grounded. It's about not giving a shit what other people think. It's about really just you are so secure in your own self that you don't need to prove anything to anybody.

Whereas for women, it's about being free. It's about being safe. Right. And I think the problem we have in society right now, you know, I speak about this in the book a little bit, is that women don't feel safe, and human beings will do whatever they need to do to feel safe. So if a woman's inner masculine, God bless her, but she had to go there because somewhere in her world, she didn't feel safe to be in her feminine.

And for a woman to be there, they have to truly know they're being held. I compare it to, like, a river, right? Like, a river bank is the masculine, and if it's firm and it's strong, then the woman can be, you know, the water. And the water wants to flow freely and do its thing and dance wherever it wants to go, but it does need to be held so that it has a flow and so that it doesn't spill out everywhere. And so at their core, women want to have that masculine or feminine.

Women want to have that masculine core to hold them. And so when it's not there, they either have to become it or it spills out everywhere you see them. They're just a mess. Yeah. Feeling safe and secure.

Chris Williamson
Two words that I wouldn't have really used probably up until about six months ago when I started doing therapy. And it's so the more like once you see it, you can't unsee it. So, hey, the reason that guy or girl, I think this is true for men as well. The reason that you don't feel comfortable about opening up about your emotions is that you're terrified about what's going to happen. You're fearful about the response that you're going to get if you show an ounce of vulnerability to your partner.

And the less that you train them to understand what it's like when you're vulnerable, the less they're going to be able to accept it, which means that eventually, if it does burble over, spill out of the top, you punch a hole in a wall or you break down crying or you do whatever. It's such a harsh change. How could you expect this person that's never had any experience with you, dealing with you showing emotions and you've gone from zero to 1000 and what you're basically saying is, now deal with this. Pick up the pieces, fix this mess. Yeah, I talked to, you know, there's this idea of, like, so I talk a lot about vulnerability and I think vulnerability is a superpower.

Jimmy Rex
But to your point, if you're vulnerable and you don't get back into your masculine afterwards and do something about it, if you don't hold a frame again, then you, you kind of lose the attraction of the woman. And so what I tell people, I say, look, and what I've learned this as a coach, is you can't change anybody. Like, nobody. You can't. If you're trying to change people, good luck.

All you can do is create a container that's safe, whatever that looks like. And then you inspire people to feel safe enough to want to be inspired to change themselves. And that's really where change happens. It's your only job as a coach or a mentor or whatever that might be, is to create a container where they truly feel safe, to be vulnerable. They know they'll be seen, they'll be accepted in that state.

And when people get loved, when they've been seen for who they truly are. Most people have never experienced it, and so they've never experienced true love because a lot of my guys will say to me, you know, they'll say, jimmy, I've never trusted the love I get, because I think deep down, well, if they knew who I really was, they wouldn't love me. And so we teach them. That's why authenticity and vulnerability matters. That's why getting into integrity matters.

Because when you do those things, you experience love. And they're. They're getting it. Like, for better or worse, they know who you are and they still love you. Then all of a sudden, you know, it's like before that they have a bucket with holes in it.

But once they truly can share that in a safe environment, then they feel loved for the first time and fully being seen, and all of a sudden, they can trust that. The problem is, if you play a role, because you're terrified of opening up and being seen and being authentic warts and all and rage and all. And all of the things, if you don't do that, any love that you feel is just going to be hollow, because who are they in love with? Yeah. A character.

I've been talking about this with some of my closest buddies. The only people I want to spend time with now is where I can 100% truly be myself without fear of, like, they're going to judge me for it. Like, there's such a freedom in being completely you. How much is that your job? And how much is that the job of the people that are around you?

I think it's your job to create the relationships where. That's where you get to show up that way. Cause, like, I have those people in my life where. And it's. Some of them are not my family.

Like, some people are not my. You know, who you would think is my closest friends. You're still holding back. You're not being truly you. But I think true freedom like that, that feeling of, like, oh, my gosh, I don't have to worry about what I'm saying.

I can be completely myself. And they understand it. They get me. I can even say the wrong thing and they're going to just laugh at me because they already know my heart. They know who I am.

And those, to me, are the only relationships worth really investing in, because that's where you truly get to just feel, just be yourself and be at ease and be, you know, really be vulnerable without worrying that it's going to come back and haunt you later on. I came to one of your events I spoke at one of your events about a month ago or so. How many people are there? 500? Maybe 600.

About 500, 600. Yeah. But your community is thousands, thousands and thousands of men. And this is not just young guys. It's successful CEO's, it's blue collar workers, it's pastors, it's everybody.

Chris Williamson
What is unifying those men in terms of their struggles? You have guys from very different backgrounds with very different trajectories and very different life situations. What are the things that those guys are commonly dealing with? Yeah. So I do two exercises with them when we first get together.

Jimmy Rex
I'll kind of explain them both, because I think it helps explain that. So the first one that I do, you know, I've been to all these masterminds and events, and what happens is you get all these people and they're all successful, but they kind of start bragging about themselves, and they're telling you how cool they are. They're talking about their car, their job, how much money they make, their girls, whatever it might be. And it kind of comes off as you're just like, okay, dude, like, whatever. It's like ego.

Right? But what they're really saying, chris, is they're saying, hey, I promise I'm worthy to get to know, please love me. Like, look at my values. Yeah. And.

But they don't know how to say that. So instead they say, dude, check out this girl I'm dating, or look at this car I have, you know, and so all those kinds of things. Or start talking about their business portfolio. And so what I do the first weekend we get together, I have this exercise we do called the badass list. And what I do is I make all the guys they have to make a list of 50 or more things they've done in their life that makes them a badass.

And then the key to the whole thing is you have to read the list as if you're reading it about somebody else, because we will give a stranger so much credit, but we never give it to ourselves. And so when you're reading the list about someone else, you're like, damn. Or about yourself, but you think of someone else, you're like, I'd like to hang out with this guy, you know? And so we do that. But then I had another thing that I experienced where I had a buddy one time, and I had looked up to this guy for years, but he was over at our house one night, and he was talking about how he was just down.

He didn't. He didn't feel like he fit in. He didn't feel like he belonged with our group. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, I've looked up to you, dude.

So we closed the door, like, eight of us in the room. I said, dude, this is the safest room you're ever gonna be in. You're just gonna brag about how awesome you are, tell us all the amazing things, and we're gonna cheer our asses off for you. And so we did it, and I just saw this dude, like, go from an imposter to just lit up. And so what we do at our event is I have all the guys read their list, and when they're done, we all scream and yell like they just won the Super bowl.

And so we cheer them on. And a lot of these guys say they're like, man, I've never, like, no one usually, you know, gives me credit for what I do. I just go to work all day, working my ass off for my family, but nobody really appreciates it. It felt really good to be cheered, you know? And so the first time they get together, we do that, and what they see is like, yeah, you got this guy that flew in on his jet, and he's had a lot of success in business, but this guy over here, you know, stayed with his brother for four years while he was dying of cancer.

And this dude over here, as a single dad, has stepped up for his kids and never missed, you know, one of their events or whatever. And so, like, everybody's worth just, like, getting to know. And so that's the first thing that really puts us all in the same plane. Um, and then the second one that we do, it's all in. I did a documentary that kind of shares a lot of this, because it was really hard to explain why my event was different than the normal alpha camp and all those things, you know, but it's.

It's, uh, whatvid.com if anyone wants to check it out. But. And so on that video, though, um, we show this exercise that is called step in the circle. I created this kind of from a different experience I had. So I had the opportunity to go to Pelican Bay prison.

It's one of the most dangerous prisons in America. Um, this. It's just north of San Francisco. How many people are in? Thousands.

But in this particular unit, there's this lady named Katherine Hoke. And she has this program where she takes these inmates, and she has entrepreneurs come and teach them. And we did, like, a shark tank thing where they pitched us, and we could decide to invest in their idea. And these are guys on death row. These are dudes that are in there for murder.

Chris Williamson
And this is super, super max. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, if you've ever seen training day with Denzel Washington, there's a scene where he's like, I'll send you to Pelican Bay. Like, it's that bad. It's like the prison you don't want to go to.

Jimmy Rex
So we go there, and I'm pretty nervous. There's about 30, 40 entrepreneurs. And we walk in, and all these inmates, there's about 100 of them, and they're free. They're not cuffed or anything, and they're screaming, they're yelling, cheering us on, and we go in anyway, we end up teaching them for about a half a day. And then we do this exercise where she put all the inmates on one side, about 100 of them, and the 40 entrepreneurs on the other side, and she starts asking this series of questions to kind of show, a, your privilege, but, b, that we're all the same and everything else.

So she'll ask, like, hey, if you had a parent tuck you in at night at least once a week, step in the circle or step up to the line. And, like, none of the inmates would, but like, most of the entrepreneurs would. And then she's like, if you had a family member, immediate family member, brother or sister die by the time you were 18 years old, step to the line, half the inmates, again, none of the entrepreneurs. And then she says, if you've ever committed a felony, step to the line. All the inmates, like, one of the entrepreneurs, and all of a sudden she goes, I'm sorry.

I didn't say if you got caught for a felony. If you ever committed a felony, if you ever been in a fight, you could have gotten a felony for that. For a lot of these people, that's where it starts. Yeah. And so all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, shit.

We all stepped to the line, right? Anyways, it changed my life because I just saw, like, you know, these people in a different light forever. So I decided to bring this into my own group. But I wanted more than, obviously, everybody's, you know, entrepreneurs in my group or just normal business people. And so I read a series of about 40 questions, though, and if it applies to you, I have them step into the circle.

And it's a way to be seen in a way to, like, so many people are just, they want to share this thing that they're ashamed of. Like, shame festers in the dark again, I have a whole chapter in the book about this, because I felt that growing up, I thought I was the worst human. I grew up in a very, again, religious household. And part of that was, you know, you were. I mean, we were taught that next to murdering somebody, sexual sin was the next worst thing.

It was that bad. It was like, there's a lot of shame around. So I didn't even. I went into my thirties as a virgin, but I had guilt and shame because I wanted Mormon church. Yeah.

Because I wanted to, you know, have sex with girls, like, and so I knew that the mindset of this, and so many guys, they beat themselves up over so many things that, like, they just don't need to. And so with this game that we played, this exercise, I'm asking, I started out, I'm like, if you're afraid you're gonna let your kids down one day, step in the circle. And then, you know, I go on, I'm like, you know, if you've ever had a parent die, step in the circle. If your parents divorced when you're a kid, step in the circle. And then I start asking some more serious questions.

I was like, if you ever woke up thinking today would be your last day or thought about committing suicide in a serious manner, please step in the circle. And, like, half the group steps in. All of a sudden, it gets real if half the people are crying, you know, and then I can start asking more questions. Like, if you've ever been cheated on, step in the circle. If you've ever cheated on somebody, step in the circle.

If you need to go home from this event and talk to your spouse to get back into integrity, because it's something you've done in the past, you've never told her, step in the circle. 20 guys step in, right? But we're all ball, and we're all connected to this moment of, like, oh, my gosh, I'm not alone. Because we think our, you know, we think our problems are so unique to us, and it's like we're all dealing the same thing. Like, I'll say if you've ever had a problem with pornography steps, it's like the whole group, right?

It's like everybody's like that. Um, you know, and I'll. And so by the time this is done, everybody is on this even playing field. Like, oh, my gosh. All we need to do is love each other.

There's no judgment in the room. All the people are there to, like, really support and love each other. And I spend the next day and a half, prepping them to jump off this giant cliff that's 400ft down. And they're leaving behind a bad habit, negative relationship, or limiting belief they have, and they, you know, come back up with a more empowering, you know, new philosophy or whatever belief. And it's so powerful, man.

I'll have ten to 20 guys go home from each event and talk to their girlfriend or their spouse and get back into integrity. And because all of a sudden, again, I had one guy, he was a bouncer. He was a former NFL football player. He was a bouncer, actually, for Lil Nas, of all people. And he went to some strip clubs that his wife and him had an agreement that they were very against doing that kind of stuff.

And he'd never told her. So he goes home from my event and he tells her, and he says for 4 hours she wouldn't talk to him. And then she comes up and she loves him, and she's like, thank you for telling me. I love you so much. And he called me Ballin.

This is a big, muscly man. He was an NFL lineman. And he says, man, I know for the first time in my whole marriage, my wife loves me. For the first time, I know it. And so that's kind of the whole reason why I tell these guys, like, these are the three pillars of everything I'm teaching, is vulnerability, authenticity, and in integrity.

Because then, and only then, can you trust the love you get. It's not for any other reason than if people truly know, like, here's who I am, here's who you are, and they love you in that state. For a lot of people, they've never felt loved or seen that way. And so they'll go to the ends of the earth for each other, and there's just a bond that's formed so fast, and I think that's been the secret to my whole program and why, you know, guys from all walks of life get along so well together. Talk to me about shame.

Chris Williamson
Talk to me about how that plays a role, how it appears in people's lives that they might not realize, yeah. You know, shame is I'm bad. Instead of I did something bad. That's the first thing I think is very important to recognize. You know, for me, growing up again, it was like I just felt like I never could live up.

Jimmy Rex
And I think religion in general kind of helps make you feel broken so that you need them, you know, like, you know, the savior or repentance and all these concepts. And to me, it's like, I get that but, like, ultimately, I believe in a God that is just all loving and understanding. And so the very need for, like, you know, needing saved, I just don't believe that. I think that, like, when we can wrap our heads around, like, who God is or what God is or whatever, then all of a sudden you're like, wait, I don't have to beat myself up. Of course I'm going to fall short.

Like, the game is to fail. Like, anybody that's ever gotten good at something had to fail their ass off to get there, right? Your first podcast probably wasn't very good. Yeah, my first one. Just to give you an idea, a buddy of mine, I hired his two sons to help me with the camera and the boom mic.

I had a boom mic. That's hilarious, right? And they were in high school, and he came to watch them, and I was interviewing this local, like, rapper dude. It was just horrible. And I ran out of questions, like, twelve minutes in and my buddy starts asking questions to my guest from behind the camera.

That was my first podcast. Mine wasn't that bad. Yeah. I mean, to give you an idea, like. But the ultimate, the thing is, I almost wanted to delete it, but it's like I'm 570 episodes in now.

You know, I can have on anybody now I'm interviewing my childhood, like, celebrity stars, you know, and people in my life, and so. But you have to suck to get good. And so it's the same thing with life. It's like, so when you have shame around what you've done, you keep thinking to yourself, like, God, like, you know, if people knew who I was, they wouldn't love me. Or you just don't feel like you're enough.

You don't feel like you're lovable. But when you kind of expose it and you're able to go like, hey, you know what? Here's what happened to me. Here's, like, my story. And we think people will love us less.

We think, like, every guy like that I've ever coached says the same thing. Like, oh, man, if people knew who I really was, they wouldn't love me. And then they tell it, and you're like, dude, what if none of us are worthy? What if all of us just are okay because we are? You know?

I think one of the things that's helped me a lot is I think God laughs at me. I think he takes humor in my mistakes, and I've just taken this, like, role of that because I switched my relationship with God, where he just appreciates me. He appreciates the dumb shit I do. He appreciates the good stuff I do. And he's just like, he sees me as a character.

And I think I would think about my kid if I had a kid. Just always getting in trouble, but, like, trying shit and screwing it up and all the time just being a jackass. But, like, he's so loving and he's trying his best. Like, how could you not love that person? And I think of God, like me, like, thinking of me like that.

And so for me, it really empowers me. And so every day I start with a prayer where I go, God just lead me to the people that need me. And if that leads me to weird things that I do that I shouldn't have done or, like, just, you know, being an idiot sometimes, then I can laugh about it and just go, you know what? God appreciates this. I'm okay with it.

And that's the opposite of shame. Shame is where you just feel like, you know, I'm not worthy of doing this. Like, I can't be the one to do this. But, like, as you've seen, the most amazing people are simply people that are willing to take action without knowing it's gonna work. It's like people that can give themselves Grace when they fall.

They can, you know, be okay with, you know, not having all the answers or not getting it right the first time. And so, for me, shame is what keeps us in this dark place, and it festers in the dark, and nobody wants to talk about it. And so you gotta find people that are willing to listen to you and not judge you and be able to be curious about why, you know, anytime you get somebody's story, Brene Brown talks about this all the time. It's like the second you start leaning into somebody, you're like, oh, they're worth loving. I've never met somebody that once I leaned in and got their story weren't lovable.

Chris Williamson
Yeah, it's strange to think shame is, if people could see me, they won't love me. But by doing that thing, people don't connect with you. So, like, the thing that you are fearful of is the thing that you are making happen. Yes. Yeah.

Jimmy Rex
And that's because the universe only hears, you know, like, the energy of that. You're going to repel anybody that's trying to connect. And so you're exactly right. It's like the thing we want most, we avoid giving. I always say to people, like, whatever you want the most of, give it away.

If you want more money, give it away. If you want more time, give away your time. If you want more love, give away love. Because what happens is you energetically, you let the universe know, hey, I see this thing in abundance. I have so much money, I can give it away.

I have so much time, I can donate my time. And all of a sudden it becomes this abundant thing in your life as opposed to this thing that you have this scarcity around and this weird energy around. Yeah, I think as well, just to kind of really drill home that knows where he's going and is comfortable in his skin and having fun while he's going there. The comfortable in your skin thing, the thing that is going to make you, I believe, the most lovable and the most accepted by people and the most liked is going to be your ability to say things that in the wrong hands would make you unlikable. Like, that is the cool thing.

Chris Williamson
All of the best friends that I've got, we've bonded over. I remember. Here's one story. So youssef been on the show like 50 times. Who's one of the most common guests?

One of my best friends in the UK. He hurt his lower back one time. We both got bulging discs. And when you have that, it's like your whole back seizes up. So the spine, the erectors in the lower back just lock so that you can't do any more damage to the spine because obviously it's super, super important and he just wants to protect you.

So super painful, it's basically impossible to kind of stop happening. And he messaged saying that this had gone on. And I was like, fuck, man, I know what you're going through. And I was on my way to work. I was going to open up one of our events, one of our club nights in Newcastle.

I was like, oh, okay, well, I tell you what, I'll drive to the corner shop that's near his house, buy him some malt loaf and some sort of Gatorade, Lucas aid things and some, I believe, pain, like gel stuff. That'll help and maybe something else. And I texted him and he was like, oh, don't bother coming to see me, like I'm laid in bed. And I was like, I'm coming to see you. So opened the door, went upstairs, and he could, couldn't really walk because it kind of shuts down the way that your body's able to move.

And I think that was the moment that our friendship really, really went to another level because I was like, look, I don't care that you look weak and vulnerable and pathetic. And, you know, you're fragile and broken. What I want is to be a friend. Like, I'm here for you. I want to do this thing.

And I think about that a lot. I think about that gesture for me, and he's done similar stuff for me, too. And you go, that moment of him being broken was actually the bit where I was like, I see humanity in him. I see this part of him that is, like, that is deserving of love, because the person that's completely just super competent all the time, I don't know. I can't really relate with that person.

Jimmy Rex
Well, we actually love people that we serve, and so a mistake that guys make in dating a lot is they try to do everything for the girl. They don't let her do anything for them because we actually love something more. When we're invested or we get to serve them, we get to do things for them. I tell a story in the book about my best friend Travis, and same thing. He's, like, the most good looking dude.

He's got the supermodel wife, amazing kids, seven figure job, part owner of a tech company. All of it just crushing it. As a side point, every single guy that's a part of your inner circle that I met has got, like, ten out of ten big titty wives. Like, what is in the water in fucking Utah? There's some good breeding in Utah.

It's not bad. It's not bad at all. A gene pool. What was it that someone taught me that evening? Utah's got the hottest single moms in America.

You know, I've always been grateful for the beautiful women in Utah. I will say that, like, I've been to 106 countries now, so I've seen what's out there, and I always come home to Utah. It's like, there's just. It really is. There are some beautiful women there.

But you know what's funny about this guy is there was, like, this little bit of, like, he's always a little bit too cool, right? Or a little bit too done together. Not with me, but with a lot of people just a little bit intimidated, even though he's not that way, but, dude. So one night he comes to us. He's about to become a dad.

He was about a month away, and he pulled me and my other two best friends into a room, and he says. He starts crying. He says, hey, guys, I don't feel worthy of, like, being a father. I'm really worried that I'm not going to be a good dad. He said my leveling which is words of affirmation.

Can you guys just pour into me a little bit? And it was so innocent. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I see you. Yes. And we just started telling him how amazing he is.

And I can get emotional thinking about it because it was like the moment. I've never loved him more than in that moment. It was like, oh, this dude does need me, and I need him. And, you know, and, like, we need each other. And it's like, oh, my gosh.

Like, this is such a beautiful thing. Like, he's in his moment of weakness. He's asked for support and allowed me to be that for him. And that is a different level of friendship. There was a, I think it was Doctor Robert Glover again.

Chris Williamson
He is on his third marriage now, and he, I think it's like a mexican lady. It's some sort of central american, south american lady that. And maybe he's got enough money for a maid or maybe he's able to take out the garbage. There was some sort of normal household chore that he had said to her, like, no, don't bother. Oh, it was ironing the clothes.

He was ironing the clothes. And he was like, I'm gonna get the maid to iron the clothes. And she basically said something to the extent of, like, I want to iron your clothes. Like, I want to feel like I'm contributing to your life. Yeah.

And I'm sure that there's women listening that are like, I fucking don't want to iron his clothes. But, you know, those active service a lot of the time make you feel like you're contributing to somebody's life. Yeah, well, I've, I've literally, like, I've been on dates before where I used to fake, like, I got a headache one time, and I faked like I was fine and it was throbbing. And I just tried to power through the date. Can't let my date know I've got a headache, you know?

Jimmy Rex
And then I kind of learned this concept. I was like, so the next time I got a headache, it was years later, but I'm like, I'm just going to kind of lean into it. I was like, hey, I'm so sorry. I have the worst headache. And she goes, here, let me rub your head.

And I'm. Next thing I know, my head's in her lap and she's kind of giving me a massage, and she's taking care of me all night. And now you're still in love like it was. And now you're manifesting headaches. When you don't even have one to get yourself into the lap of women.

But isn't that funny, though? It's like, you know, we think we have to have everything put together, but women want to serve. Like, a good woman wants to contribute. She wants to be a nurturer. She wants to contribute to your happiness and make you happy and do things for you.

Chris Williamson
So I've been thinking about competence a lot and how people, it's an allure and an attraction and stuff, and I'm very attracted in my friendships and in my relationships to people that are competent people that are able to do stuff. And I think that there's too much of a meta around men being competent and women being incompetent. I think that it's seen as, like, that sort of mastery. I need to do a thing. Thing.

If you're with a chick that is an unbelievable pickleball player or is, like, a really good driver or something like that, that's fucking sexy. That's cool. And the same thing goes for a guy where it's like, hey, this dude crushes in business. He's really confident. He's in good shape or whatever.

He can't dance. And it's like, that's kind of charming. Like, to actually embrace that side of him, be like, and, you know, the wife or the girlfriend that he's out on a date with, he's like, look, you gonna have to take the lead here. Like, you're the one that can dance. I can't.

And that's cool, because your incompetence is polarized against all of the stuff that you crush at. And I think that a lot of the time, what guys are trying to do is cover up their incompetence with fake competence. As opposed to just saying, these are the areas in which I am good. These are the areas in which I am bad. Love me for both of them.

As opposed to, like, don't see this over here. And it's such a. It's like a very fragile, tenuous, sort of broken view of yourself. It's like, oh, you're fucking self worth lies on such a knife edge that even the slightest hint of some weakness means that you're now no longer valuable. Well, and it gives women permission to not have to have everything figured out.

Jimmy Rex
Like, when you can't do certain things, they're kind of like, oh, I can relax around this guy. I can go back to what I said before. It's really nice when you can just be yourself, right? I mean, men have to be competent in certain areas. Like, no woman's gonna be like, oh, that's cute if he's incompetent at making money.

Right? Like, incompetent. So cute how you continue to spend a house deposit on gambling. Right? Exactly.

But, like, when it comes to other things, yes. It's okay to be like, one of my favorite things is a woman that's passionately engaged in something she loves. It doesn't matter what it is. Like, just, if you see a woman and she just loves her thing and she's amazing at it, it is beautiful. Like, when a woman can play the piano or, you know, sings or just be great mother.

Yes. Whatever it is, it's just like, oh, my gosh, that's so beautiful to watch. And I always say I look for women that are passionate, just like, they love to do their things, and instead of, you know, I mean, a lot of times we get caught up with the wrong things. But, like, for men, there is certain things you want to be competent at, but the rest of it, the word I like to use is. Is playful.

Like, the most attractive state a man can be in is a playful state because you're. You're just. It's. You're never in a negative emotion when you're being. Taking yourself too serious.

You're allowed to just kind of screw shit up a little bit and kind of have fun with it. You know? It's in my mission statement for my life is to be a playful human, because I think it's one of the most important. Like, when I was a kid, I remember I'd go into my friends houses and, like, everyone's had this experience, but their parents are miserable, and they're just hard to be around. You're just trying to stay downstairs because the dad just came home from work.

And I remember thinking, even as a kid, like, man, I just want. I want to be an adult. It's fun. I want people to run to me. I want people to be excited when I show up.

Chris Williamson
Oh, Jimmy's coming. Yeah. Oh, that's gonna be fun. Yeah, exactly. And I believe I've accomplished that, but that's what I want.

Jimmy Rex
It's just like where little kids run to you and they're like, they know, you know, I have 200 kids that call me Uncle Jimmy because it's the guys I coach as kids or my best friend's kids, and I love that. I just did an Easter egg hunt for my clients last Saturday for Easter, and I have a helicopter come and drop 10,000 eggs on these kids. And, dude, they're full of candy, jelly beans and stuff. It's so funny. Kids are getting pelted in the head.

But that is like, a core memory for a kid. Yes. That's like a core memory for a little kid, right? Like the Easter time an egg hit him in the face from a helicopter. But I have, you know, little kids will run up.

And I had this one lady, she came to me during my fireworks show that I do last year, and she said, my son just said something. Say it again. And he's like, I just want to be like you when I grow up. And it's like, that's the greatest compliment I've ever had. Like, a little kid aspiring to have this fun, playful life as an adult, because it's what I always wanted when I was a kid.

I always wanted to be that. And so I've really built a life around doing that. You mentioned negativity. Why are so many people negative as a default? There seems to be a culture of cynicism at the moment.

Yeah, I think it's hardwired in us. I mean, look, when you think about humans is their whole purpose is to replicate and survive, right? And so to survive, what are you doing? Your natural DNA kind of screws you over, but it looks for what's going wrong so that it can fix it, so it can be aware of it, so it can look out for it, be danger or whatever it might be. And so I think we're hardwired to look for what's wrong.

It's why we're attracted to the car wreck. It's why we're attracted to the news. But you have to hijack your own brain. Tony Robbins talks about this all the time. But, like, if you can hijack your brain to look for what's right, then you can live in a state of gratitude.

And he said, the way you do that is by being grateful. Like, and so, you know, one of the. My coach, my best coach I've ever had, she would always just say to me anytime I. You know, I remember one time this. One of my friends had betrayed me and this whole thing, and I was so mad, and she said, where's the gift in this?

I was like, we're not playing this game right now. I get to. Just let me piss for a minute. Yes. She goes, no, we're not getting off the phone until you come up with 20 gifts.

I'm like, there's not 20 gifts in this. But the time I got off the phone with her, an hour and a half later, I came up with 26 gifts that happened from this moment. And so it's like, whatever, we focus on you, we feel we know this, but we are naturally wired to look for the negative or look for what's wrong. It's just, it's. It's a defense mechanism to keep ourselves alive, but it keeps us from happiness.

Chris Williamson
And so it's not just the seeking, the negative, though, that I'm talking about. It's also like the promulgation of the negative. It's the. The downplaying of other people's successes. It's the.

It's the mean comments on the Internet. Where's. What's the. Yeah, yeah. So that one, I believe.

Jimmy Rex
So. When we see somebody having success so people can look at your podcast, they have to say one of two things. Either, wow, look what he accomplished. He must be amazing, or they have to go, he must have got lucky. And the reason why they say that or they try to come at you are they negative is because you have to look at your own life and you have to realize, okay, you either have to change yourself or you got to make everybody else wrong.

So it's easier to just be like, well, he must have got lucky or he probably cheated to get there. Because the opposite of that, the alternative of that is you got to look at your own life and go, what do I need to change so I can be successful, so I can be rich, so I can have a great podcast. And people don't want to do that. It's easier to try to make the other person wrong. And so people naturally default to that person must have done it, you know, illegally or that person's not who they say they are.

They try to make that person wrong. Yeah, because they don't want to change themselves. It's more work to, you know, people don't want to look at themselves. And I think. Interesting point.

Yeah, I think that's why, you know, Jocko will talks about this all the time, that extreme ownership is. It's the opposite of being a villain. Like, the only thing that's, like, commemorable or, like, you know, that's good about being a victim is. Is getting over it. It's like when you overcome it, like, this is the only thing that's, you know, really admirable about being a victim.

And so people will do anything to fight for that victim story because it allows them to not have to change themselves. If I'm a victim, I don't need to change. Like, this is why this thing's happening to me, and I can just make everybody else wrong around me. Like, the second you take ownership of your own stuff, you got to fix it, you got to make changes, and that's harder for most people, and so they'd rather just assume everybody else is wrong. You mentioned Tony Robbins, brene Brown.

Chris Williamson
Youve worked with a ton of coaches. You do the stuff yourself. Can you take me through the most high leverage mantras, approaches, fundamental frameworks, and philosophies that youve learned from all of the time that youve been doing this coaching? Is there a few things that you always come back to that are fundamental to your worldview? Sure.

Jimmy Rex
Yeah. One of my philosophies kind of talk about the, um, the formula for transformation in my book, there's really five steps to it and kind of goes with this, so I'll kind of share that. But step number one is you have to take a moral stand. You have to decide, like, you know, what's right and what's wrong. First off, you have to be honest about what you're doing.

Chris Williamson
How do you do that? Um, I think we know at our core, I think it's just really having self awareness. You know, Gary Vee talks about that. The most important quality a human can have, a self awareness. It's just being honest with yourself, hey, you're not doing the things you need to be doing.

Jimmy Rex
If you're fat, it's not because your genes or because of this or that. It's because you eat wrong. It's because you don't exercise. You got to be honest, right? Like, whatever the thing might be.

So, I think that step number one is just being honest and just going, okay, you know what? I can admit that I'm not doing things I need to be doing or I'm doing things I shouldn't be doing. Number two is you change your behavior. Like, you have to decide what the alternative to what you're doing is going to be. And we used to live in a world where that was a little bit difficult.

The skills and the, you know, the actual information was hard to get. It's not now. It's very simple. There's a million different ways to get it. Now it's more about executing on what you already know.

And then the third step is having accountability, because it can be very difficult to change on your own. And so accountability is, you know, most of the good coaches, dude, none of them say anything. That's world breaking. Like, I've had people that, you know, signed up for my program. They're like, you're not saying anything.

I don't know I said exactly, but I'm holding you accountable to being on the call every week and just the very act of showing up and being here. You're going to get inspiration for your own life of what you need to change because you're thinking about what you can do better, what you can do differently. And so just putting yourself in that environment is creating that change for you, or at least that inspiration to know what you need to change. Um, the fourth one is having support. That's where my community comes in for me.

Exactly. But, like everybody, like, you can't do these things on your own. Like, I tell a story. I told it at the conference that you spoke at. You know, we climbed Mount Kilimanjaro, and one of my buddies that I met on that trip, uh, this guy Kiwi, had one leg, and he was getting to the top of this mountain with one leg.

And I won't tell the full story because it takes me 20 minutes, but long story short, there's this former NFL football player Dave Vora that trained him for six, seven months leading up to it. And the second day, we were hiking, Dave. I was hiking. And, you know, when I talked to the guy with the one leg, he said he wanted to, you know, do it for the other military people that take their lives every day. 22 military guys take their life every day.

He said, I wanted to show them they have something to worth, you know, living for. So I'm like, damn, this is. That's a big why this guy's going to get to the top. And so I'm talking to Dave the next day, and he says, look, dude, it's deeper than that. This guy's called me twice.

His wife has called me twice in the last six months. He's had the gun in his mouth and he's like, he's struggling. If he doesn't get to the top of this mountain, I think he'll be dead within a couple of months. I'm like, holy shit, she's got a lot bigger than climbing a mountain. And I was stoked because we were doing it with Jason Kelsey, who's kind of become like a hyper star.

Yeah, yeah. And like Chris Long, these amazing humans that. I was excited to meet them, but all of a sudden, my whole thing was about getting this guy at the top. Well, long story short, we get to the 6th day, which is when you summit. And the problem with altitude is it doesn't discriminate, man.

You get up there, I had we had a defensive back for the titans that was done. He was shitting himself and just all sorts of a mess. We have other guys that. I mean, some of the most athletic dudes in the world. We had a marine with us that turned back to give you an idea of how difficult this is.

Literally a marine. Like, they don't turn back. Vince Young, though, like one of the all time college football players the year before, he turned back. So, I mean, this is a very difficult hike. It's the hardest thing I've ever done.

So I'm watching q all night. The guy with one leg, he's climbing this mountain, and he fell hundreds of times. Keeps getting up, keeps getting up. We finally were about three, 4 hours behind. We get to this false summit.

It's about 600ft from the top. And, uh, if you've ever climbed killy, this is the hard part, is you're now up in the altitude, the highest er, and you have to walk for about an hour around the rim, basically, to get to the actual top. And I'm listening to chris long, who was kind of the guy in charge of our, um, whole group, and this guy named orca who's in charge of basically all of the, um, sherpas and stuff. And they're like, hey, man, he's done. We got to send him down.

And I'm sitting there, and, you know, I was. At the time, I was just a realtor. I'm like, what am I going to say, basically? And so I'm finding I'm looking for my buddy Dave, who's like this six five linebacker, just fricking beast of a man. I run up to him, I said, hey, they're trying to get q to go down.

Like, you got to do something. And this dude comes over, and he grabs Q, and he's like, damn it, q, you're not done yet. We came here to go to the top of the summit. We're going to the top of the summit. And then he looks at Ork, he goes, he's going to the top.

He looks at Chris, he's going with me. We have to carry his ass. That's what we're doing. We're not stopping. 600ft from the top.

And he goes, q, you good? He goes, yeah, I'm good. So we end up throwing an arm around this dude, and we get him to the top of the summit, and it took about 2 hours, and we're all just dying and hurting. And it was like, I'm bawling, like, watching this, you know, dave is there for me? And I talk about in the book, I said, who is going to be your Dave vbora?

Like, when you're done? I mean, this guy gave everything. It was like he was spent. He gave everything he had. But somebody in that moment loved him more than he could love himself.

Like somebody said, I don't care if you're done. We're going to carry your ass from here. And got him to the top because he knew what was on the line. And so that's the whole point of having mentor. So that's step five, is find a mentor, right?

Having a Deva Bora, having somebody in your world that can help you when you're done, that's where your community picks you up and says, no, we're not done yet, dude. We're going to make this happen. And so that's the formula for transformation. That's the whole reason coaching is so valuable. And, you know, the mentorship part, the last piece, is essentially, you want to find somebody.

That's why I hired Ed Milette to be my one on one coach. Because you want to find somebody. That's where you want to go, where you want to be, that's been where you are. And then you just find a way to create enough value to be in their world. And they can compress that time.

You can skip a lot of the hurdles they had to, you know, a lot of the grenades they had to fall on for you, and you can get where they're going so much quicker. And so I just look for people that inspire me, for people that are doing things that I want to be doing, and then I just figure out how to create enough value to be in their life. And that's how I find mentors. That's how I find, like, people like you, man. It's like, my podcast is like, I'm 570 episodes in, but I'm like, shit, man, look at what crazy.

Like, I'm so inspired by. You're never satisfied. You're always pushing. You're always doing more. You study, like, the you.

The way that you articulate things, and I'm learning from you. I'm like, I. That's why I reached out to you. And I'm like, I'm gonna get in this dude's world. I know how to create a value for him because I appreciate that he's doing this at the highest level, and I want to learn from him.

I want to be. Most people become friends with who lives next to them or who, you know, their kids play ball together. And that's their parents. I'm like, no, no. Who is just killing life?

Who inspires me? I'm going to figure out what they're doing because that's going to make my life so much better. And so that's where coaching or mentorship and all that stuff comes in. I love the idea of being friends with people who believe in you more than you do. Oh, yeah.

Chris Williamson
And that's so rare to like, okay, you want a partner who believes in you more than you do. You want friends that believe in you more than you do. You want support that is more encouraging than it is pitying. It's like, look, I hold you to a high standard because I know that you can get there. I know that you can do this thing and that you can make this work even if you don't.

That's cool. I had a guy come to my. I did my lunch party for my book last night. One of the guys came up to me. So three weeks ago, we did an event and we did a hike.

Jimmy Rex
And this dude's out of shape. He's the oldest guy in our group. He's never. He does 3000 steps a day to give you an idea. Like, that's not very many.

I can stood the fridge and back a few times. And on the way back from the hike, we had to carry him like, and I pulled him aside. I said, listen, man. I said, I know how much you love this group, but you cannot be a liability. We can't ever have to carry you again.

I said, here's the deal. 10,000 steps every day. And if you miss, you're out of the group, period. I love you enough that I'm going to do that to you. I will kick you out if you miss.

You got to text me every day. He has not missed a day. He came up to me last night at the event, gave me a big old hug and he said, dude, thank you for loving me enough to actually hold me accountable to this. It's changing everything. It's last night.

He just literally came up to me last night. How cool. You mentioned there about this, my never satisfied approach. I'm really trying to unpack at the moment the difference between holding yourself to a high standard and being grateful for the things that you've done, for finding this balance between wanting more and demanding high achievement of yourself and yet having the grace and the acceptance to allow yourself a little bit of room if you do fall short or to just know that, look, no one prs their workout every single day. That's not the way that it works, and that's not the way that life works, either.

Chris Williamson
How have you come to think about this balance between a desire for excellence and grace when you're falling short? Yeah, I think a lot of it is the energy behind it, like, where it's coming from. So I tell my guys, I say, look, you're enough, and you're capable of much more. Like, I start with that, right? But.

Jimmy Rex
So for me, and again, it's another story from the book, but I. You know, when I was a kid, my dad really wanted me to get it held back in 8th grade to be a star baseball player. My brother had been the two time state mvp. So he's like, I'm gonna hold you back for a year, and then you'll be that much better. You'll be able to be a star.

And I didn't want to. I had good friends. I. You know, I was one of the older kids already. I was about pretty smart kid.

So eventually, long story short, my dad put all this pressure on me to get held back, and I told him no. And he looked me in the eyes and he said, kay, well, just so you know, you're not good enough. You'll never play baseball again. And all I heard was, you're not good enough. So I wrote it on my hat brim, and I wore that for three years.

So now as an adult, like, I know the power of affirmations and words and things. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I hadn't seen this hat or thought of it in 17 years, but it drove me for 20 years of my life of, like, not feeling like I was good enough. And so I had this never ending ambition just to try to prove that I was worthy, that I was enough. And it was interesting.

I was doing a journey one time with some of my friends. It was actually my first ever journey. And I saw this hat, and I had this voice, like, come to me. And it was really beautiful. It said, this has served you, but it no longer does.

It's time to let it go. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I don't have to prove myself every day. I don't have to be the best at everything. I don't have to be number one.

And I did, and I kind of just let it go. And from that point on, it did become much harder at first to find my motivation to do things. Because you're not running away from some people. Exactly. Because it wasn't coming from fear of not being loved.

Right. So it wasn't until I came up with my new motto, which is the name of my company. We are the they that I fully like was coming out of doing things, out of love. So now I work harder than ever and I'm more ambitious than ever, but it comes from a different energy for me. And so it feels healthy, it doesn't feel needy, it doesn't feel like I have to do it.

I just want to do it. And I think that's the difference. There's no need to do this. It's like I want to give everything I have to this because of what it's doing. But it no longer feels like if I don't, like, if I stopped tomorrow, I wouldn't feel like I was a failure.

I wouldn't feel like I let anyone down. It was like that thing was so beautiful while I did it. And so I think the energy that you come out something with is a big indicator. Yeah, there's sort of two elements there that I think about a lot. The first one being lots of people have.

Chris Williamson
I did, when I was younger, a concern that if I gave myself too much grace and too much room and didn't castigate myself when I fell short, that I wouldn't be driven to go and do great things. And I think that that's just a fundamental misunderstanding about how your drive works for the people who want to do great things. It's not. You couldn't turn that furnace off if I fucking paid you. You're so obsessed with that idea.

Correct. They love, all they want to do is become better. They want to improve, they want to contribute, to crush it, whatever it is. They're obsessive, they work hard. And you think that by allowing yourself to feel a little bit of pleasure or gratitude or to give yourself some grace if you don't succeed, that that's going to dampen that down.

Absolute bullshit. And then on the second side of that, let's say that giving yourself a little bit more room and a bit more grace did reduce down your drive. Let's say that it did do that. What have you gained and what have you lost? Like, you are sacrificing the thing.

You want happiness for the thing which is supposed to get it, which is success. So if you are able to make yourself happier without chasing success, that's a w as well. It is like if you're okay. So ultimately, what we're looking to try and achieve, I think, in life is like enjoyable emotional states. I think that's broadly what it is.

You just want to feel sort of peaceful and alive. Right. Okay. Well, if that's the case, I can get there from a million different routes. I can maybe get there by hitting new subscriber numbers on my channel, or I can get there by having sex with lots of women, or I can get there by raising a family, or I can get there by succeeding in business, or I can get there by racing cars fast, or whatever it is.

Whatever the thing is that makes you do that. Okay, but what if there was a quicker route? What if there was a shorter route? What if you didn't need so much stimulus outside of it? What if instead of trying to go faster with the successes, you took the brakes off?

All of the shame and the guilt and stuff that is sitting around you, that's driving you to do that in the first place? Either of those seem like a win to me, but certainly releasing the brake before you press harder on the accelerator, that's the smart approach. Well, going back to Marcus early is one of the reasons why I love the stoics and those emperors and those people, because their whole idea was not to need more. It was being okay with less. It was like, when you need more stimulus or you need more accomplishment to feel that way, you're in a little bit of a tough spot.

Jimmy Rex
Right. One of my, you know, favorite things that I've learned is, like, there's three things that money can't buy, and that's a peaceful mind, a healthy body, and loving relationships. It's why rich people go nuts, because they don't have any of them. And it's where they get in all their trouble, because they're trying to buy those three things, but you have to earn those. You have to go out and get those.

And I think those are ultimately the three things that bring you fulfillment. And, you know, Tony Robbins again, but he says, success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure. And that quote is just driven in me. Success without fulfilling is the. What's that mean to you?

It means you can win the whole world, but if you're not happy about it, then you're just that much bigger of a failure. The key is happiness. The key is fulfillment. It's not what you can acquire, what you accomplish, or what you do. It's like, are you at peace?

Do you actually enjoy your life? Do you wake up and you're just happy to be you? And for some people, I used to live in Mexico for two years, and I was on the border. It was a very interesting time because I got to see the contrast of people coming across the border from the US, they were always trying to, you know, consume or get something or come buy something, or they were just. And they were so miserable and mean.

And these people in Mexico that literally, I mean, dirt floors, outhouses, nine kids in a living room sleeping, and they were so happy and content. And I'm like, which one of these people is successful? It's not the people from the US coming across the border, I can promise you that. And so ultimately, I think, you know, if you're not happy with little, you're not going to be happy with more. Just money is going to magnify it.

And so, like, in life, success, you say this as good as anybody, but you chase this thing, but you give up the things that really make you happy for the success, and you're hoping the success will make you happy. It's like, no, no, you were there. Just sacrifice the thing you want for the thing that's supposed to get it. Exactly. Dude, I see it so much, and I see it in myself as well.

Chris Williamson
It's like, is there a quicker route to this? There's an interesting cue that one of my friends gave me while we were in the gym. So we were doing high side plank. So when you've got one hand down on the ground, 1ft on the ground, and the other hands up, and it was in the middle of some awful metcon, and I'm like, 25 minutes in, super fit, and I'm like, bro, I do push pull legs now. Like, I'm on the I'm on my bro split era.

I'm in my rich piano years. I'm not doing this stuff. And I was, like, sweating and shaking and, like, sort of grunting to myself and, you know, like, really sort of gripping hard. And he shouted over and said, hey, what would this be like if it was easier? I was like, that's interesting.

What would this be like if it was easier? I was like, well, I'd smile and I'd, like, sort of grip less hard because it's not really helping my performance. I'm, like, digging in where I need to. I'm not actually having that much fun. And the other day I was playing pickleball and it was mixed doubles, and the chick that I was playing with, we were two, two, best of five, and walking back to the baseline.

We're about to begin the fifth game and I'm like, so her forehand is a little bit Dexter, like, to keep it on her backhand, and it doesn't seem like he's driving. So when we drive. We need to come up to the net together. At the same time. We need to do the rest.

She was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, let's not forget to have fun. I was like, yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good, very good.

Thank you. It's like the. What is it? Like, men will try and win a totally arbitrary pickleball game rather than go to therapy like that. And it's that compulsion.

And you catch yourself and you go, what if this was easier? What if this was more fun? What if. What if it's not about gripping onto things really hard? What if it was about kind of just allowing things to happen?

Yeah. I think a lot of people, they almost feel like, I was in real estate for almost 20 years. And so I, you know, I sold almost 3000 houses and I would see real do this all the time. On the other end of the deal, they just try to make problems. I don't know if they were trying to justify their commission or they just needed it to be difficult because that's the way they are in life.

Jimmy Rex
But they would just cause problem after problem. And I can't tell how many times I said, listen, I need you to just do nothing. Like literally sit on your hands for two days. When you pull them back out, go grab your check and cash it for $14,000, but you need to stop. Like you were causing issues that don't exist.

But they almost needed it to be difficult to try to justify their own purpose or their own existence within it, you know? Yeah, I've got a great story about this. They did a study with TSA agents and they, I think it was like a training scenario, but using the current technology. So they had pretend passengers come through. And over time, the passengers had fewer and fewer infractions up to the point where there was none.

Chris Williamson
There was zero infractions. Right. The job of the TSA guys is to find people who are not, who are contravening the rules. And in the beginning, sure enough, they're finding stuff, pulling bags to one side, opening them, checking them, so on and so forth. And over time, fewer and fewer people broke those rules.

So you would assume that the TSA agents were allowing more and more people to go through, but the ratio stayed the same. So as there were fewer problems, their scrutiny for problems increased. It's like there's this sort of baseline level of how much work I need to be seen to be doing, and they're optimizing to fill that as opposed to the actual thing. So they're using how many people do I pull to one side as a proxy for how secure am I being? But that's not necessarily what it is.

Same thing happens if you're on a group Zoom call. I hate Zoom calls that have got any more than two people on them, because any more than three, maybe you end a call and everyone's agreed on something, a new piece of artwork that you're going to put out for a business or a new email market campaign or whatever it is that you're doing, and you get to the end of the call, and if everyone's just been like, you know what? I love that. That's really great, that's really great, that's really great. Person number seven goes, yeah, but what about.

And it's like, oh, fuck, dude, it was fine. It was fine. But there's this sense that if we don't push back against something, we're not working. It's like, this can't be that easy. And sometimes you need to continue to push, and there are people that push that limit, and I'm definitely that guy.

When it comes to the can design, it took like a million different versions. But there are other areas where you're like, good, that's good. Let it go. Yeah, well, I think we see this with police officers. A lot of times it's like the good cops are.

Jimmy Rex
Their whole job is to just create community and to make sure there's no problems. But when there aren't problems, they start to kind of create the problems. I've seen this in my life a few times, and you're like, dude, go away. Like, everybody's fine. You know, like, we did this, the government did this with, you know, with the whole COVID thing.

It was just like, they just created so many issues and problems. And I think it's justify all these people to have purpose. You know, Joe Rogan talks about this on his podcast about the homeless problem in California. And there's so many people, they create a bigger homeless problem because they all have to justify their multi six figure incomes. And so they just.

They don't want to fix issues. And all of a sudden, we either create problems that don't exist, or we make a problem that exists harder to solve than it needs to be because we're almost just trying to create enough value of our own self worth or our need for us to be there. How do you come to think about fear and the role of fear in a man's life? I think that fear is one of the biggest things that holds people back. But I think fear is an emotion of itself.

It's not good or bad. I think it can teach us a lot. It can help us a lot. You know, I think you have to get a healthy relationship to fear. When you understand when you can feel the fear and you go, okay, I know what's happening.

I'm feeling afraid. Like, so when I was in college, I remember there's this cutest girl in the cafeteria of where I went to school, and I didn't go talk to her, and it was beating me up for, like, two days. I was so mad. And I was like, you know, I'm gonna make a rule. No matter what, when I see a cute girl, from now on, I'm just gonna approach.

I got 3 seconds to go talk to her, period. And I spent the next four years doing that very thing. And, I mean, you just overcome any fear of doing that thing. With my guys in the coaching program again, on our first weekend together, I have them jump off this giant cliff. You know, I'm taking 25 guys to Africa next week.

We're doing bungee jumping off a bridge into a river, the Zambezi river. We're doing this gorge rope swing. I'm taking them to just do some crazy things. We're doing whitewater rafting where there's, like, crocodiles in the water and stuff. Because when you get over that initial feeling of, like, oh, no, I can't do this.

Like, I make them skydive. I make them walk on hot coals, all the above. Cliff jump, all of it. Because every time you overcome that fear, your ability to. To hear it, to feel it, and then to overpass it becomes that much easier.

So I have one guy. He had never done anything scary in his life, and he had a really crappy relationship with his son, but he never had a real conversation with him. He never actually sat down. And so we taught him the skill of, like, being a little vulnerable first. And so instead of being like, what's going on with you?

Are you upset being like, hey, man, I remember when I was 14. Here's something that was hard in my life. I don't know if you're experiencing something similar. So all of a sudden, he's connecting, right? But then the kid opens up because the dad, like, but the dad had this really tough conversation.

They're starting to heal this relationship because the dad finally leaned into his own fears. Like, if I can get you to jump off a cliff, I can get you to talk to your kid. If I can get you to swim with tiger sharks, then I can probably get you to have a tough conversation with your boss, or I can have you. You know, I got guys that, when they start my program, they haven't had sex with their wife in over a year, and they don't talk about it. Like, how have you not discussed this?

It hasn't even come. They're afraid to even approach it for fear. Like, what are you gonna lose? Like, you're already not having sex. Like, you can't go worse than this.

That was kind of how I approached the whole thing with talking girls. I'm like, if I don't go say something, I've already. I'm at my worst case scenario right now. Like, my worst case is the thing. That you're afraid of happening is already happening.

Yeah. It's like, if I don't go say anything, I already lost. Like, I didn't connect, but anyway. And so I think with fear, I think the key is putting yourself in positions where, you know, and a lot of things have the appearance of fear, but they're not actually dangerous. You don't want to put yourself in actual dangerous situations.

Right. You don't want to go 150 on the freeway. You don't want to drink and drive. You don't want to, you know, walk around the wrong place at the wrong time of night. But, like, ultimately, if you can put yourself in healthy situations, like, I had a guy today.

Cause I was coming here to do this podcast. I run my weekly call. I called one of the guys. He's never hosted a coaching call. I said, hey, man, I'm gonna have you do the call today.

And he's retired. He's killing life. But he's never publicly spoken. It was all about finance. And he text me afterwards on my way over here to the podcast, he said, that was so empowering.

Thank you. Like, you know, he did something that was really scary for him, but his ability to do that now going forward is going to be so much easier. And so. So every time you lean into the fear, it's. You get a little bit better and a little bit better at doing that.

And everything we want really is on the other side of fear. Like, leaning into the thing that we're afraid of. That's where your work needs to get done. And so I just. I just encourage people to always have the tough conversation, share the thing that you think you're, you know, what makes you the most unworthy of being loved.

Like, that's what people are the most afraid of. And that's where my program, I get them to do, you know, I mean, guys will talk about stuff like, I had one guy get up in front of our group after a breath work session, and he said, he starts bawling. He says, I've never shared this before, but he said, even this week, I had a gun to my head. He said, I've been suicidal for five years. He said, five years ago, I convinced my girlfriend to get an abortion.

I didn't think we could handle taking on the kid. He said, I've never forgiven myself. He said, it's even worse. I gaslit her into thinking it was her fault, her decision. And he said, it's been hard, and he now has three kids with her.

They've gotten married since. He's like, I've never forgiven myself. Well, in the breath work session, he talked to the unborn child or whatever and said, hey, it's all good. You did what you had to do to feel safe, probably. Anyway, so he gets up and shares with us.

He says, I've never shared this outside of my wife. No one knows. And he shares it with 50 guys in a room, in a cabin. And instead of being judged, everybody just swarms him and loves him. He gave another guy permission.

He said, hey, I did the same thing. I convinced my girlfriend to get an abortion. And all of a sudden, this thing that he was carrying, so much shame for, that he was literally about to take his life for, all of a sudden, he was like, he no longer had to be afraid of people knowing that about him, because he saw it, he felt it, and he felt immediate love and just empathy for a guy that was obviously not the best choice in the moment, but did what he felt like he needed to do at the time. And so I think anytime you get people to share, I've had probably a dozen guys get up and talk about being molested as kids that they'd never shared. It's.

And they have break. They go home and they tell their wives, who never knew I had one wife call me. She's just bawling, and she says, I'm so sad he had to go through this by himself. Thank you for creating a space for him to just talk about this. She just bawled.

She was on the side of the road just crying. And she's just like, I'm so sad. He's just been going through this by himself. Their marriage is just a hundred times better than it ever was. But it's because the thing we fear the most, the thing we're afraid of, once you actually share it or lean into it.

You're just, it's okay. Like, and most of the time, 99% of the things we worry about or we're afraid of, they just never actually have any reality to them. And so, you know, it's the old saying, like, we die a thousand deaths, the coward dies a thousand deaths. Because every time you. Your body doesn't know the difference between the reality or it happening.

Like, when you die, it's gonna be pretty damn fast. Like, but if you are always worried about it or worried about that thing, then you experience it as if it happened to you. That's why when you watch a scary movie, you actually feel the intensity of it if you were there in the room. It's the same kind of concept. Concept.

Chris Williamson
It seems like one of the powerful tools that you're using here is community. But we're hearing a lot about loneliness, both for men and women. But I think specifically for men. I think the highest risk group of suicide in the UK, it may also be in the US as well, is men sort of aged 45 to 55. And I think that's probably a good sized chunk of the guys that you work with.

What have you come to think about the male loneliness problem in the modern world? Also rolling down to millennials, Gen Z as well, and their problems with screens. Yeah, it's huge, man. I mean, we saw this during the pandemic. I believe that the devil divides us and God gets us together.

Jimmy Rex
I just think we're always better off being around other humans. When I launched my program, I only wanted to have 50 guys, and I didn't know if I'd be able to fill it. So I launched it November 1, 2021, and I gave myself a month to start it. So I didn't start till December 3 because I needed a month to sell it. It was like 50 guys.

It's not the cheapest program. So I was like, man, I hope I can get enough guys. You know, I knew if I worst case I can sell, I'll get on the phone and call my friends. Dude, I had 147 people apply for the 50 spots in 8 hours. I didn't get to do 90% of my marketing.

I was like, oh, my gosh, I have stumbled across something here. And the reason I knew to start this program, I'd been selling real estate for seven years, 17 years. And it was actually almost five years ago. I sold the most expensive home ever in Utah. It was 32 and a half million dollars.

Like in Utah, I sold basically it was a couple mountains with houses on it. I mean, it was crazy sell. It was the, you know, it took me seven years of my career to sell my first home, over a million in 20 minutes. I sold the house for 32 and a half million. Like, I hit the peak of my career and it kind of felt a little bit empty because I knew I could do something more impactful.

But it was interesting because I had no idea what it was going to be. I spent about two years working on it, trying to figure it out, what do I want to do? How do I want to help people? And it came to me, like, the reason it came to me is men kept reaching out because of my podcast and a previous book I'd written. And they kept saying the same thing.

They kept saying, where do I find a group of friends like you guys have? I want to find friends like you. They don't exist in my world. And I started watching a couple of my nephews and they didn't have close friends like I did. Like, I had eight best friends since high school.

To this day, we're all best friends. I'm going to climb in June and the mountains in Congo and in Uganda to go look at gorillas with, with a bunch of them. Like we're the best. Impenetrable forest. I think it's called the some.

No, I don't think that's what it's. Called, but I went to Uganda to see gorillas, probably is. And, yeah, I just know it's Uganda, so. And I think Rwanda too. But anyway, it's a place that I'm talking about.

Chris Williamson
Yeah. You stay in Rwanda, you go to Uganda for one night. Yeah, it's the same place that I went. Cool. So to this day that we get a trip once a year.

Jimmy Rex
Like two of them came to my party last night, you know, like, they are my closest friends and I mean, we've been together since we were twelve and I look at a lot of the younger generation, they don't have that anymore. It just doesn't, you know, society doesn't really favor them like it did for us. There was, you know, they have so many things that unfortunately distract them. So much noise out there, but so for me, that was how I knew I needed to start a men's group because it was like, oh, that's who, that's who I can help. It's like these guys that just don't even know where to find community.

And I always took for granted how easy it was for me to make friends. And so I just always had friends, but it was like, oh, damn, I know how to teach this. I know how to go deep with my friends. I know how to quickly create very unique bond where we really care about each other, we get to know each other, we get to see each other. And so that was kind of really what gave me, because I kind of felt like an imposter, too.

Before that, I'm like, what am I going to coach people? But once I knew it was that I was like, I know exactly how to show people how to make friends. And so that became my whole motivation. How can people be more decisive? I think indecision is something that kind of traps you in a way that can also then cause shame because it's just an action, right?

Chris Williamson
Just do a thing, make a decision about this thing and move yourself toward it. And yet people can be caught for decades in thinking about this decision and not doing anything to move it towards that goal. Yeah, I mean, indecisive enough is going to, indecisiveness will cause you more problems than almost anything else that you do. Like, it really will because, I mean, when was the last time you made a big decision and totally regretted? It's very rare you do because usually the lesson you got or the outcome you got is it was worth it.

Jimmy Rex
You know, on their deathbeds, they've tested people, they've talked to people about this. They've done all these surveys and everything, and it's, people don't regret the decisions they made. I mean, talk to any girl that got knocked up in high school, she doesn't regret it. She's got her kid now. You know what I mean?

Rarely. I mean, if they're just a horrible person. But, like, for the most part, nobody regrets the things they did. They don't regret the decisions they made. They regret when they had an idea or they had a thought or they needed to get out of a job.

They needed to get out of a marriage. They needed to get into a marriage, whatever the thing. And it's, you know, it's interesting because the universe will very rarely reward you for procrastinating. Very rarely. But it always rewards you for taking action quickly so often, like, it's, you know, again, I had Ed Mylett speak at our conference that I had you at, and he said, he said there's a, of the most successful people where they just have an ability to take action, not needing to know that it's going to work.

And he said, they all do the same thing. And there's, you know, it's funny because as you've gotten into this world. I'm sure you've met plenty of people that are doing very well on Instagram or the Internet world or whatever else, and they're not any different from the people that aren't doing it. The thing that they have, the quality they have is they just have this unique ability to go, you know what? I'm just going to do this.

And they just continually do it. I mean, the reason why your podcast is big, the reason why mine got big is because consistency, it's just you're 6700 episodes in. Of course it's, people start listening like you, but when you were afraid to. I think what it is is people are afraid to suck. They're afraid to look dumb, they're afraid to, you know, be bad at something and it's like, no.

If you can embrace the suck and you can look at failure as not trying, then all of a sudden you empower you to do everything. Like, I've tried so many things and I quit after like two weeks or a month or two months. Like, I tried piano lessons and all these other things. It's like, oh, I suck at that. And I don't want to.

I'm not. I thought it was fun, but nobody cares, right? So, like, when I was a kid, it was funny. I'm not a kid, but, like, when I was in my twenties, I did a tv show. I had a meat company.

We sold steak and chicken door to door. I had a Christmas light business. I had just all these crazy jobs. And what was funny, Chris, is all of them, like, to the outside world, they're like, did you hear what Jimmy's doing? Jimmy's doing a tv show.

Jimmy's doing this meat company. And I wasn't making money on any of them. Like, they all were a quote unquote financial failure. But I got so much credit from people. They were so, like, they were just really admired that I was willing to try things.

And so I learned, thankfully in my young twenties that the reward was in trying it. And so for me, it really empowered me to just go for it with anything because I got rewarded for that even when it failed financially. And I think most people, they think off, this fails financially. It's like I'm gonna be. And I like to talk to people.

As I said, look, one of the biggest gifts you can give yourself is to go to rock bottom because you get down there and you realize it's not that bad. Like, when the real estate market collapsed and all these other things happened in my life, I was dead broke. I didn't I? Not only was I broke, I was in debt up to my eyeballs. I had two homes that I had to take the loan on that no longer existed.

I mean, I had hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. I was like, 25. And honestly, life was pretty good still. And it was so empowering, because I'm like, if this is my worst case scenario, then I'm going to send it and I'm not going to worry about it. Because when you've been there and you just realize it's not that bad, then it can be very empowering to really push you past that.

Because people, that's the only reason why people, you know, they're playing defense. They're so afraid of losing this life. They don't even like. I'll tell one quick story. There's this guy, this guy in Tennessee, this doctor hit me up.

He's got six girls, six daughters, and he hit me up and he said, I need to come out to you. I need to meet you. I've been listening to your podcast for two years. You're my guy. I need to talk to you.

All right, come out. So this guy comes out is about three years ago, and we go to lunch. He says, jimmy. He said, you know, when I was young, I had the love of my life, and I went on a Mormon mission for two years. And when I got back, we wrote each other every week and we were going to get married.

But my dad said I was too young to get married, so I broke up with her. He said, I regret her at every day since she was the love of my life. But five years later, I was still single. And now I was kind of panicking that I was single. So I just got married to get married.

He said, I was never really in love with my wife. And then she started getting mad. We had a couple of girls, a couple kids, and she got mad at me because we weren't making enough money. So she wanted me to be a doctor. I never wanted to be a doctor.

So he goes, so I became a doctor. He said, but I'm a terrible doctor. I hate being a doctor. He said, he's like a foot doctor. He said, the only people I can work on are the people that are on hospice because they send me out, because no other hospital would take me because I'm terrible at it.

And he's like, I'm just drowning. I'm miserable. I've never made one decision that's mine my whole life. And I said, dude, well, then make a decision. I said, why are you hanging onto this?

Like, I told him, he needs to quit being a doctor. First off, I said, the only reason you're still being a doctor is because there's a part of your ego that likes to tell people you're a doctor. I said, but you're a miserable doctor, so what the hell? Like, it's not. What's the point?

You know? And he wanted me to help him kind of find a new thing. And I said, the second you quit and tell both me and the universe that you're serious about change, then I will absolutely turn over mountains to help you with what's next. But you got to quit first being a doctor, because you're hanging on to this thing, and, like, people will just hang onto these things that make them miserable, and they don't do them any good, but they're so afraid of the change. They're so afraid of the unknown.

It's like, I used to work at the center for women and children in crisis, and it was a bunch of battered women. I think I had 150 women come through, and 150 went back to the guy that beat them. And what I realized is that part of us that's just trying to keep us alive, it knows. So these women knew they could survive the abusive relationship, which was a sad, sad thing. Cause it wasn't a good thing, but they knew they could survive it, and that was less scary than the unknown of what it would be without.

And so humans, again, will do whatever they need to feel alive or to stay alive. So these women, even though it's a horrible situation, we're not wired for happiness. We're not wired for a good life. We're wired to stay alive. And if they knew they could survive that, most people will stay in that place.

Even though this doctor's miserable, these women were getting battered. Then the unknown of what's next, the. Idea of real failure being not trying, is a lovely frame. I had a audiobook. I'm not a Tony Robbins Stan.

Chris Williamson
I'm not deep in his work, although I'm starting to get into it more. And a friend sent me. It's a weird version of an audio, but it must be like an audio workbook from Awaken the giant within. It's only about an hour and a half long, and I'm pretty sure that awaken the giant within is, like, 10 hours long or something. And he was like, hey, just give this a listen for me and let me know what you think.

And he has a framework for making decisions you may even be familiar with. This already. But he basically says, look at what the situation that you're in now has cost you in the past. Look at what the situation that you're in now is costing you right now, and look at what it will cost you in the future. So front load as much pain as you can.

He talks pain pleasure principle. So you're struggling to make a decision. Load as much pain onto this particular decision as possible. What's it cost you before? How much life have you lost?

How much time have you spent ruminating about it? How shameful do you feel about what's it costing you now? How much of your day is spent with you thinking about this thing? What's it going to cost you in the future? How much is it going to hold you back?

How much is your life? How much are you going to regret it in the future if you don't make this decision? And then he said, now, turn it up to eleven. Go on the Internet and find stories. So my friend that was doing this wanted to stop biting his nails.

So he thought about all of the times in the past that girls had sort of, like, turned away because his hands weren't sort of nice and attractive. And he thought about how much shame he found now and about how in the future, you know, as he's getting his wedding ring put on, he's gonna have this hand that he doesn't feel very is cool. And then he went on the Internet to really dial it up to eleven, and he found the most awful photos that he could of people that had sort of bitten their nails down, and he really, really sort of sat in it. And then he did the opposite and he thought about, okay, and how much pleasure would you get if you overcame this thing? It's this vice that he's had for 20 years.

He's thinking, right, well, you know, think about how proud I would be and how cool it would be when I hold hands with my girlfriend and, like, how attracted she's going to be to me when I do all of these things. I was like, that's a really nice frame to think about. Front load as much pain and then front load as much pleasure. But Robbins just has this really great analogy where he says, a decision isn't a decision until you've taken an action to move yourself toward it. So a lot of the time people say, I've decided I'm going to leave my job.

Have you? What's that mean? What does, I've decided I'm going to leave my job mean what I'm going to leave my job. Okay. When?

Jimmy Rex
Yeah. What? In the future. Okay, so what have you decided? You've decided nothing.

Chris Williamson
Like, that's. It's. It's. It's literally nothing. And maybe if you want it to be, like, lexically precise, you can make a decision.

Like, I can decide that from here. I'm going to go and get an ice cream after this. Like, in some way it's true, but functionally, it's totally false. And I think that optimizing and changing your definition of making a decision to when I make an action that moves me toward it, and this can be small because you think, okay, so what? You just want me to quit my job as soon as I feel like I should quit my job?

That's a lot, but something like, I'm going to schedule a meeting with my boss. Anyone can schedule a meeting with their boss. It's like, okay, well, I've taken a step toward doing it. That's me actually moving myself toward doing this thing. And just that reframe.

That reframe of. There's no such thing as a decision until you're taking an action that moves you toward it. Yeah. I tell the guys I coaches that anytime you make a new decision or a goal or whatever it is, you have to take a actual action in the moment towards it, or else it doesn't count. So if you decide you're quitting alcohol, you need to go to your house and you need to pour all the alcohol you have down the drain, like, get it out of your house.

How big of a problem is alcohol for your guys? Not much, to be honest. Most of the guys, I grew up again, and I had my first drink at 34. So I grew up in a very. Alcohol was like, you just didn't do it right, like, at all.

Jimmy Rex
And so it was interesting. When I was 32 is when I kind of left that religion, I kind of thought to myself, like, well, I'm not going to start drinking now. What kind of loser starts drinking at 32? You know? But then a couple years went by, and I'm like, wait, how do I honestly feel about this?

Is this my own decision, or is this just the way I was wired to believe? And so I start drinking, and, you know, what I do is I'll take a few months off every year. Um, you know, at our events, I allow seltzers, but not anything else. Cause I'm like, you can only get so drunk on a seltzer. Um, but it's, like, definitely not a place to, you know, drink, drink.

But you know, I mean, look, like alcohol is one of those things I have the weirdest, you know, relationship with, because it is the devil in so many cases, and it is not good for you and you will make worse decisions and you're very rarely going to be better off because of it. And it also can be such a beautiful thing to break down barriers and egos and walls and things like that. Like, I've had some of my most amazing nights drinking with friends, right, where we're just more at ease. And so I try not to put anything like, that's like a must. Um, there's only been one or two guys that have had a problem with alcohol, and we just pull them aside and we love them enough to say, hey, man, we love you.

We're worried about this. Let's make a change and do something differently. But in my particular community, it hasn't been too big of an issue. Interesting. I certainly feel like we've turned a corner with alcohol use among younger people in the last decade.

Chris Williamson
So when I think about when I went to university, which is 18 years ago, and it was classic Larry Loutie british drinking culture. Right? Like, drinking as our national sport. And I think that maybe for older generations, which is why I was interested in your guys group, because you do have, like, a good chunk of, like, men as opposed to young guys. And I thought, I wonder where that's gone.

And I'm really glad. I'm really glad that it seems to be dissipating because as a person that's tried quite a lot of drugs, alcohol ranks quite low down. And the ones that are enjoyable. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Here's.

Jimmy Rex
I have this philosophy that it's kind of new, but I'm working on. I want to research it some more. But I think the alcohol companies screwed up when they started really marketing to the women and girls. Because over the last 25 years, alcohol use amongst women and girls has totally ticked up and it's drastically higher. They, you know, really made it popular to, you know, drink with the, you know, the.

The, um, the brunches and like, all these different wine get togethers for women. I think men see women drinking and it's more obvious that drinking's a problem. I think when men see men drinking, sometimes we just feel it's part of being a man. It's just Jimmy, he has a beer. Yes.

But I think where they screwed up, and I think is where they're getting a lot of kickback now, because there is this huge push, a lot of the influencers a lot of the people that, you know, there's a lot of doctors that are like, hey, you're poisoning yourself. Like, stop it. And so I think there is this new belief, and also it's the rise of other things, like, you know, plant medicines that, you know, up. Your frequency is lowering shroom all day. Yes, exactly.

Same. And it's funny, in Utah, they just legalized therapy for MDMA and psilocybin through a couple of hospitals. Yeah. And we were pushing really hard to help that. I've, this tattoo on my finger was the first time I ever did plant medicine.

It was the day, I mean, my life just, like, everybody just changed my whole life. And so, like, once you've done that and you realize, wow, there's another, a higher frequency you can be at going to those lower frequencies. Like, alcohol really doesn't hit the same way. And so I think the alcohol has a definite problem as far as that they're going to be in trouble with their marketing because people are waking up to like, this is a poison. This is, this is, has a lot.

Chris Williamson
Of issues, kind of not that cool anymore. And it's very strange, you know, if you to think, and this might be my bubble, you know, there might be, people may see things differently, and I'm sure that in different areas of the country and different friend groups and whatever, but I really think that we've turned a corner with it. And if you'd said that to me 18 years ago, I would have been like, are you mad? Like, this is the drug. There's a hypothesis about human culture called the beer before bread hypothesis, which is that it was easier to grow grain to make beer than it was to make it to grow bread, to create bread.

And the idea being that here's some interesting stuff, actually, about alcohol. So one of the interesting effects that it has, it reduces your ability to lie because the PFC prefrontal cortex gets tuned down a little bit. So your capacity to keep all of the different plates spinning of your elaborate, like, construction, they don't exist so much. But interestingly, it makes people better lying detectors. So you are better at detecting deception when you're drunk than when you're sober, and you are worse at deceiving when you are drunk than when you are sober.

So it's, this comes out exactly, exactly correct. So people are more hyper attuned to it. And I thought, wow, those, that's really interesting. That's a function that this thing has, and it's evidently been super important to the development of human civilization but you also have a big corner, I think, that gets turned in the middle ages when coffeehouses became a thing, because during the middle of the day, as opposed to going and drinking with your friends and having beer or ale or something, you would be able to go and have something that actually enhanced your cognition instead of dold it. But my point being, it's been such an important part of human civilization forever, for as long as we've had civilized culture.

And for you to go, yeah. And that's kind of going to become uncool and pushed back against, I would have never predicted. Well, think about when we were kids, right? Smoking was cool. It was.

Jimmy Rex
And smoking became the least cool thing you could. You ever heard Mark Norman's joke about smoking? He's like, that basically, smoking's been swapped with weed, and that if someone saw you down an alleyway smoking a cigarette, and they were like, what are you doing? And you'd be like, killing a hookah. And he's like, it's true, though.

But, you know. And that happened. I'm smoking. When you were a kid, like, all of the old movies from the sixties and seventies, they were always, you know, Marlon Brando, whoever it was, they always had a cigarette. It was just a cool thing to do.

Now it's like, you're gross. What's wrong with you? And so I think the same thing can be happening with alcohol. The gift of my life was not drinking till I was 34. Like, I never became dependent on it, never became a vice.

It never became something I needed to mask emotions. I think I kind of accidentally nailed it with alcohol because I'll drink it when I celebrate or with homies or whatever, but, like, it's just not a thing. Very intentional. Yes. I've never had a bad experience drinking, like, if I'm being honest.

Well, actually, I had one. You want to hear? Yeah, sure, dude. Well, so my first time I ever drank, I was undercover. I used to go undercover with a group.

We'd go help rescue kids being sex trafficked in foreign countries, and I'd never drank. So we're in this strip club bar in, you know, Latin America, and one of these traffickers brings us a thing of beers, me and my buddies. And I've never drank, so I'm like, shit, if I drink this, am I gonna spill the beans that were undercover? Like, I have no idea how I'm gonna think I'm funny. You would have no idea what the.

Effect of album zero, and I'm 34. It's embarrassing. So I take the beer, and, like, nothing happens, right? I'm like, oh, shit. And so then I'm like, well, okay.

So when we go home from that trip, I'm like, okay, I do want to try drinking now. But I was like, I don't want to get drunk and not know how. To act so funny that your introduction to alcohol was through a sex child trafficking guy. Right? I know, I know.

Well, it's like you can't say no to a bear if you're undercover, you know, pretending to do that. So I end up. I end up deciding I'm gonna get drunk by myself, so I know how it feels. So I buy one of everything, dude. I've.

I'm buying rum, whiskey, you know, all of it. And I end up taking about five, six drinks, and I don't really feel anything yet. I'm just by myself on my couch. So I'm like, well, try some more. I try every, dude.

I probably took 15 drinks, and I wake up. I'd blacked out. I probably almost killed myself. Literally, the first time I actually drank, people would have found me and got my alcohol level. They'd be like, he must have been so depressed.

Yeah, it was literally an experiment. Bizarre self experiment. I know. And I didn't want to drink again for, like. Like, a really long time.

Cause it was just. I felt so awful. But, yeah, that was the only time I've had a real negative experience drinking. But it was bad. I was so stupid.

But, yeah, I just didn't know. You know, it was interesting, the whole thing with. When we would go undercover, though, um, you know, the guys I went with, same thing. None of them had ever drank either. Cause we all kind of, like, had grown up in the same religion and all that kind of stuff.

But, yeah, it was a trip, man. If I had only one bad story from drinking alcohol, that would be. I would have to get rid of 999, because, you know, I was in the trenches for a while. One of the other things I've been thinking about a lot, and I know that you think about this is presence. Like, having your mind rest where your feet are.

Chris Williamson
And it seems that that's increasingly hard to achieve. We're permanently distracted. We're always thinking about the next thing. We're in our dopamine versions of ourselves as opposed to the serotonin versions of ourselves. How do you advise people to become more present?

Jimmy Rex
Yeah, it's funny. You said, that's my word of the year, is presence. So every year, I do a word and try to really focus on that in fact, last time I was at this studio, I was with Stefano. Stefanos. And he was the first one that mentioned this to me.

But he said, you know, God speaks to us through solace and silence. And so we really, we live in a world where we're soaking. We really are plugged in. And so he would encourage me to spend 2 hours a week just by myself in nature with no phone. And so I started doing, it was so hard, much harder than I ever thought.

And last year, about the beginning of July, I ended up, I decided I was going to rent this cabin at Sundance, Utah. It's where they do the Sundance film festival stuff. It's beautiful in the woods, river, the whole thing. And I didn't take my phone for two days. I just sat at this cabin.

And it was probably the hardest thing I've ever done, dude. And I literally, it was funny. I didn't miss Facebook, I didn't miss sports, I didn't miss my friends. I missed being connected. It felt like I was unplugged from everything.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, we literally are plugged into this thing that really is like a matrix. And so I've really tried to work on this idea of just, you know, you know, it took me almost two years of trying to meditate before I could get to 20 minutes, before I could sit there for 20. Now I can do it every day, and I do, but I think we just have to be super intentional. I go for a walk every morning without my phone. I, you know, I try not to use apps and things to mark my steps.

It's like, but you want to. It's like, oh, I want to get this goal, but if I don't wear my thing, then I won't count it. And so, but, like, just being without those things, like yesterday, I was kind of stressed as I was getting ready for my party, and I just went for a 20 minutes walk without my phone. Just kind of like, let it kind of just. And then I was good, you know, but we really have so much noise, there's so much combustion.

Like you said, we live in a dopamine nation. And one of the concepts I cover in the book, again, is, I said, the goal is not, we've made the goal to try to feel better. So we're constantly doing things to feel better. The goal should be to try to feel more. So anytime we're masking those feelings and we do that through a dopamine spike.

So it's, you know, I did a four day fast last year. And my one takeaway was, oh, I just do this to feel better. I like the feeling I get when I eat. It's a dopamine hit. And it wasn't about being hungry.

It was about getting a dopamine hit. And so it's like, I've tried to stop myself. You know, guys that I teach that, you know, if you have, like, a porn issue, it's like, hey, if you can stop yourself long enough to go, wait, what's happening? Why am I seeking this out? Same thing with bad food, same thing with alcohol, anything that's basically video games, gambling, you name it.

Right? Like, random hookups. All these things that we know we shouldn't do that aren't really in our best thing for us. If we can stop long enough to go, wait, what am I truly feeling? Because what we're truly doing is we're just masking our feelings.

And so if we can start thinking about it as, hey, instead of trying to feel better, let me try to feel more. Let me feel a little sad. Let me feel a little lonely. Let me feel whatever that might be, then we can kind of work through it. And then eventually, once you let it kind of pass through it, it goes away.

Chris Williamson
Yeah. But trying to hide it, I don't think, does make it go away. Oh, no. I think it's a bit. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Jimmy Rex
That's the problem. That's the problem with the world we live in. That's where people. I mean, that's where, you know, we deal with alcoholism and overweight and. And people that just kind of get caught up with all these vices and things because.

Yeah, it doesn't. It's whatever we resist persists. So it's gonna stick around till we deal with it. Whatever we resist persists. That's interesting.

Yeah. So, like, if you're. I mean, again, like, I use the porn issue a lot because a lot of the guys that come to me, that's what, you know, they want to overcome. And it's like, all day long, they're literally obsessed with not looking at porn. So I'm like, well, what do you think about all day, then?

Porn? Like, that's what you're trying not to do all day. I said, dude, you need to get to the underlying thing. What are you feeling? Are you sad?

Are you lonely? Are you. What's really going on? And once I can heal that, then you're just. It quits becoming this big thing you've almost put on a pedestal or this ritual around it, and it just goes away.

Normal people don't think about porn all day. You might get triggered looking at the freaking discovery page on Instagram. Wink one off real quick and go on with your day. But you're not going to be thinking about not. You haven't created this big story around it.

Exactly. It's an interesting one, actually. So I kind of have built a number of stories about some of the things that I did when I was in my twenties. So I partied a lot and just young party boys stuff. Tons of cocaine, tons of MDMA, and a good bit of boozing.

Chris Williamson
And at never, never one point did I ever feel like I had a problem. It was always me that was in control, and I did this quite infrequently, but I would do it heavily when I did it. And that's like classic club promoter meets personal development dude. Early prototypical or proto personal development guy. And I think I've told myself a story about many of the things that I did back then.

So I still have this slightly antagonistic relationship with alcohol, where I see it as kind of, like the low vibration thing, and it's kind of, like, dumb, and it's, like, juvenile and immature. And when I think about even MDMA, which a drug I've never done sober, but was developed for psychotherapy, it was developed to help people overcome traumas and. Open up, and I've never done it with alcohol. Yeah, well, if we put both of us together, we'd have a balanced version of how to use it. And cocaine is exactly the same thing.

And I was thinking about it yesterday, and I don't know why I was thinking about cocaine. Maybe I was tired, and I thought, why have I got this story around this particular drug? There certainly are drugs, you know, a big class of drugs that I think are dangerous and probably should be demonized, like the heroin and stuff like that. And cocaine's not exactly like mushrooms or fucking caffeine or something. But still, I was like, why does this story kind of exist in my mind about what those drugs mean and are?

And I really started to sort of fact check it. And I think so much of it is just this sense that I want to feel like I've transcended where I was before, and I'm associating the things that I used to do previously with the person that I was previously. I'm like, hey, I think that you're being used by those drugs as opposed to you using them. This is like the. Maybe the fifth episode or the 6th episode I ever did on this podcast.

With a guy called Don McGregor. So I did a ton of sobriety. Elective sobriety, I called it because I chose to do it, as opposed to I needed to do it. I just wanted to focus on sleep and personal development and shit. And I had a conversation with Dom, who was a guy that did have a problem with alcohol, and he was choosing to go sober because he needed to, because he was overcoming a dependency.

And I came up with this idea, and I still think that it's true, which is, if you are somebody that's had a problem with substances or with vices of one kind or another, you haven't truly transcended them until you can reintegrate them on your terms. If you are a person who has been addicted to alcohol and now your thing is, I'm sober, and I've been sober for 15 years, and I do all the rest of it. I'm like, dude, that's phenomenal. Congratulations. That is, unequivocally a significantly better position to be in than the one that you were in previously.

But alcohol still controls your life. The absence of alcohol is still in control of your life. And totally, there are certain people with certain constitutions or histories and patterns who will never be able to reintegrate that. But I also don't think that you can say you've overcome your problem with alcohol. I think that that would be a fiction.

I think that overcoming your problem with anything would be being able to see porn and not watching it for 10 hours, being able to have a drink, and not needing to binge for the remainder of the year. And so much of that. Again, as I was reflecting on why I had these judgments around particular substances, I think so much of that is the story that we tell ourselves once you get beyond the dependency and the habits and all the rest of the stuff, the destructive spirals. Hmm. Well, what if there was a different story about what I said about this?

Not that I intend on. I haven't had cocaine today, but, you know, like, I just. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, no, it was interesting. It made me think about, like, so, you know, I grew up in a religion from the time I was born till I was 32 and I left, but it still absolutely plays roles in my life every day, and it's like, I'll never really lose that.

Jimmy Rex
I don't even know if that's a good or a bad thing. It's just part of me. Right. I think it's a little bit similar. Like an alcoholic, if they can go 15 years old, or somebody that was hooked on cocaine or whatever it might have been.

I think that's just going to be part of them from that point on. I think that's one of the dangers of. Of getting into certain things before, you know, really analyzing what that's going to do long term. But I think it's always going to be a part of my story in my life. And, like, it literally creeps into my life somehow, every single day.

And so it's like, you know, I had a brother that he's very much still in it, and he was kind of mad at me because he's like, you act like you're not, you know, have any problems with it, but I know you. You do. I said, dude, I absolutely have problems with. That's why I left. But I'm trying not to.

I'm trying not to have any issues. I do. I have several problems with it. It. I don't want to have problems with it.

I'd rather it just be a thing. Just like, I don't think about Islam or Catholicism. I don't give a shit. It doesn't have any emotion. To me.

This one still does and I always will, and I don't. There's no way for me to get around that. You know, it's like I've done a good job of trying to, like, come to peace with it all, but, like, it. Of course, I still have issues, like, so I left. I don't know.

Kind of. No, I think it's just strange to consider that. That even the absence of things can still be them controlling you. Right. Because of the sort of obsession in the absence.

Chris Williamson
It's this sort of the vacuum sucks you in and you're measuring your progress now up against where it isn't as opposed to where it is. And. Yeah, there's just a. Yeah, if I. See anything, like any article, if I'm on like, yahoo.

Jimmy Rex
And anything with that church pops, I totally want to read it. Like, it just sucks me right in, like you said, like a vaccine, you know, it's like, it's part of me. Talk to me about the role of devotion. Devotion. Well, you know, I think ultimately we have to make a decision of, like, where we want to put our attention.

We can do anything in life, but you can't do everything. And I think where people we talked about a little bit earlier, but, like, anything that is worth doing is worth overdoing. Like, for me, like, I want to go all in on. Except cocaine. Except cocaine.

But, like, for me, you know, it's like if I I want to do things at the highest level. I want to experience all that life has at the highest levels. And that includes, like, with you talk about devotional, that's love. That's, you know, if you're going to be in a marriage. So I tell the guys that I coach, I said, if that person isn't your everything, if you can't be completely vulnerable or yourself and fully just be with.

You're with them, then you're missing 98% of the good stuff of being with someone. So what's the point? Like, be completely devoted, be all in on that thing or don't do the thing. And so I don't know if that's proper answer, per se, but, like, I just believe that, you know, anything you do 90, like, you can become a semi expert of something. We get 95% of the way there, you know, in six months.

But to get this is a tweet that I think I saw you put out. But if you're going to get to 98 or 100%, it's going to take you 2030 years. But find the things that are worth doing that and the rest of them be okay. Just like, not really having that much attachment to, but the things you really care about, your family, your friends, like, you know, like, whatever thing you're passionate about, I think you have to go all in on. That's why it's interesting that the first step of your five step transformation thing is decide on your morals.

Chris Williamson
Decide what's valuable. 100%. Yep. Yeah. Decide what really matters.

Jimmy Rex
Yeah. I think it's the best way to. Say that, because until you've done that, how are you going to know what you should and shouldn't go after down the line? Yeah. You mentioned stoicism earlier on.

Chris Williamson
One of the four stoic virtues is wisdom, and that's the most important one because it's the one that. That chooses what you do with the rest. It's like, you know, temperance and justice and stuff. Like, oh, yeah, okay. But the wisdom thing is the deciding in what direction am I going to use these other skills and tools that I have to serve.

You know, you can be obsessive and hardworking and doing things incredibly well, but if the thing that you're doing is sniffing cocaine, like, guess what? That's not. Yeah. So I thought, you know, it's like, it has to be a worthwhile goal to be successful. Right?

Jimmy Rex
It has to be something like a drug dealer can't be successful because the very act of becoming great at it makes you not successful. But. And yet it has to be. It's. It's the, it's the pursuit of a worthwhile goal.

That's what really, what you're trying to attempt to do. I think that's, you know, where you want to really be able to. Again, going back to the moral issue of, like, okay, wait, is this thing I'm doing matter? Like, you know, I think when people are in a job, if they know it matters, if they. I think there's two things really important about picking where you.

What you spend your time on. Does it matter? Like, you know, do I have an x factor? Do I have a gift that no one else has? That because of that, I.

It matters that I'm doing this thing. And the second one is, is, am I using the gifts that I have for what, the thing I work on? Because when you do, when you have those two things present, everything feels like passion. When you don't, it's all feels like stress. Like anytime you're in a job or you're not using your natural gifts or it doesn't matter to you, it's just stressful.

But when it matters and when you're doing things you're already good at, that's what I love about my job now, is it's all the stuff I already love doing. And so it just, every day is just so fun to go do my thing because it's like, it's. I don't even know if I'm ever working or not. It's all one thing, you know, it's like a cliche. Like, if, you know, if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.

But it's like, it's true. Like, if you love what you're doing, I can work 60, 70 hours now, and I feel like I just had a normal week. But, like, when I was doing that in real estate, when you're pounding phones, trying to get, get for sale by owners to call you back, you know, you're working, you know? And so I think that's a gift that I think everybody needs to find, like, really get clear on. Like, what are your gifts?

And if you don't know, an exercise. I have my guys. Do I just have them text five guys in the group or five people they know and say, hey, man, what's a unique gift or talent that I have that maybe I don't see in myself? And you'll be shocked at the answers you get back from me. It's really cool because people will see you in a way.

And when you hear it, you go, dang. Oh, yeah, I get that. I do do that. And it's really beautiful exercise to help you feel good. Hell, yeah.

Chris Williamson
Jimmy Rex, ladies and gentlemen. Jimmy, I appreciate your work. I think that what you're doing with revitalizing groups of men who really, really need it is super impressive. Where should people go? They want to keep up to date with everything that you do.

Jimmy Rex
Yeah, I think the main thing that I'm focused on is we are the day. That's my men's coaching group, my Instagram, Mister Jimmy Rex. I post a lot of the stuff on there, and, you know, and I think that's the best place to find everything in those links. I did, again, this documentary, if people get a chance to watch it, watt vid.com. And you can really see what we're all about.

Pick up. My new book just came out yesterday, super pumped. Where Ed Milet, again did the forward, and, you know, he said. He said it's very rare a book comes along at the time when the society really needs it. That's what he said about my book.

I was really honored that he did that. But, yeah, man. Man, just Instagram is the best place to hit me. And I appreciate you and everything you're doing, man. It's inspiring.

Chris Williamson
Thank you. I appreciate you, too, man.

#785 - Jimmy Rex - The Reality Of What It Takes To Become A Better Man

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Episode Chapters

1: Introduction to Modern Masculinity

2: The Role of Vulnerability

3: Financial and Physical Health

4: Integrity and Authenticity

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